They can - but they must also have an option without a surcharge.
This is usually covered by the ability to select “savings” on the eftpos machine.
It’s using visa, Mastercard etc that brings the surcharge usually. ETA: this is not correct.
Using my visa debit card via contactless on an EFTPOS machine goes through the credit system and gets the surcharge. To use savings or cheque via EFTPOS you have to swipe or insert the chip. When you select cheque it's probably just changing the account it comes from or the virtual account it goes through.
That select savings thing is a myth dating bacvk to how your financial instituton treats the transaction.
The eftpos provider charge is a completly seperate thing regardless of what you press.
No this is not correct, if you choose savings then the “eftpos” system is used to process the transaction. If you choose visa debit/mastercard debit you’re using the “credit” system to process the transaction. These 2 services charge different fees, generally eftpos is much cheaper so most places don’t charge a surcharge for it
It is correct, and if it's supplied by a third-party provider, it's the same system. Source: I own a small business, and I am acutely aware of what I am charged for processing card transactions. For me, it's the same rate no matter what they press.
Not all shops will use the same processor, not all will be charged the same fees, and not all will pass the charges along the same way.
Just because you're charged one way doesn't mean the overall fee structure others have mentioned is incorrect.
Ever wonder why Aldi has a surcharge on credit/paywave but not EFTPOS, even with the same card? Pretty sure they aren't discouraging people from the faster option for laughs.
When I refer to “system” I mean on the digital side of things not the physical unit. Completely different companies process different transaction types, you’ll notice on the card receipt it will mention EFTPOS savings or VISA/MASTERCARD debit which refers to the route the transaction took to get processed.
The transaction merchant your small business uses may lump it all into 1 fee for you to make it simpler for you but that’s not actually how the transaction is processed
It’s not really, most merchants pass on the relevant fees, yours is just passing on a larger rate for all transactions. Definitely something for you to look into to reduce your overheads!
>Definitely something for you to look into to reduce your overheads!
How many ways can I say the same thing in a way you will understand? What you are suggesting would cost me more, not reduce my overheads.
What you are talking about is Merchant Choice Routing which determines if eleigible transactions go through the Eftpos network or the Visa / Mastercard network. What you don't understand is that using the eftpos network isn't always a saving, nor is it offered on every platform or even on every terminal from the same institution. It is almost soley a thing with bank supplied physical eftpos machines (which you pay a monthly rental on) and is really only of benifit to bigger stores or chain stores with large turnover and typically larger transaction. It isnt even available on every type of bank supplied eftpos machine.
But for smaller businesses that either don't do a lot of eftpos, primarily smaller transactions or run online stores or online payment portals, the benifit isnt there and often it's not even an option.
Pay attention next time you are buying a coffee and you will see a lot of small business use SmartPay, Square, Stripe and a host of other 3rd party EFTPOS providers with products suited to their business needs. For convenicence (the entire reason we have Eftpos) its usually an easily understood and calculated flat rate from those vendors eiter as a monthly fee or a percentage of the transaction.
Businesses are mandated (or about to be mandated) to use least cost routing. Meaning if you tap to pay (maybe other options also) they are compelled to use the cheapest payment method regardless of whether that usually would have been credit/visa/mastercard/eftpos. So if you're tapping to pay if eftpos is cheaper it will be routed through eftpos automatically.
My (small but locally-based) bank doesn't allow savings transactions to use non Visa/Mastercard transactions. Cheque, savings or credit - all use Visa. After hunting them down for a reason why all their new cards changed, they explained it was due to bank fees with Eftpos. I carry cash with me in case as a result. Regardless, using the app to preorder allows significantly better savings on an otherwise expensive fast food takeout.
To properly clarify it... under advertising laws, whatever price you advertise to customers has to be the actual price the product costs.
So, if a burger is $15 on the menu, then it must be available at that price.
Additional fees are only legal if for an additional service on top of the burger and it has to be an optional service. For example if you want extra beetroot, that can cost extra. If you want to pay by a specific payment method, then that can cost extra.
If you pay with the chip and select savings, most places that charge a surcharge for cards will not charge the surcharge... but it's also an uninsured transaction. If your burger tastes like shit and they refuse to give you a refund, then all you can do is take them to court. With Visa/Mastercard you can call your bank and ask them to reverse the transaction. That service is mostly what the surcharge is there for.
This is where I strongly agree with the RBA’s push for lowest cost routing of eftpos transactions. I also think every debit card should be forced to have Eftpos functionality (some are credit only nowadays). The banks don’t want to implement LCR though because they get a fat slice of the exorbitant credit card fees paid by merchants
Well worded - Coles and Woolworths and their many sub companies such as Dan Murphy's, BWS etc set PayWave transactions when using a debit card to go via EFTPOS payment scheme instead of Visa due to LCR, with debit cards being dual network. However with Google Wallet/Pay (and maybe Apple Pay) transactions PayWave goes via Visa or Mastercard depending on the brand on the card.
Being a non-Apple user I'm not sure if it is possible however with Samsung Wallet you can set your debit card to go via Credit or EFTPOS.
This sucks. Was at healsville sanctuary and my 7yo brought cash she had saved to buy something from the gift shop.
They said they were now cashless, but the guy was nice enough to let my daughter pay cash - but it shouldn’t be this way. She is learning the value of savings and money and it’s not the same using a card for all payments.
Thoughts are that people don’t realise where this path will lead.
Also, banks are salivating for everything to be in accounts - think of all that extra money for them to use for investing and to gain interest on.
Going cashless removes control at the individual level.
>How does this really affect the Community who still rely on Cash to get by
Australia is not like the US or UK. Anyone can get a 100% free bank account with debit card. You don't have to jump through hoops e.g. proving you have a permanent address.
But the homeless don’t have the means to receive non-cash money. Same with small business owners (like, those who set up a market stall) who can’t get that initial down payment for a Square card reader etc.
It’s a small amount of people who would have to solely use cash but it’s still an amount. Plus people escaping domestic abuse situations where their partner controls and tracks their online banking.
None of this is true since the 90s, dude. Wireless readers are endemic amongst market stall/food truck types. And if they're tracking their online baking they're going to see receipts or cash out statements.
How is that proof? Is this hypothetical abusive spouse going to ignore the cash out statements? Are they hypersensitive to the abusee buying prepaid visa cards? If they're controlling, then they're going to be grilled about shopping receipts or bank statements not lining upx assuming in this scenario they even have their own accounts or cards.
It's positing a hyper specific level of concern for this hypothetical relationship.
It's not proof by any metric because it doesn't create any advantage for the escapee.
We bought a square card reader a couple of years ago and have found Square great. The device cost us $50 total for everything, and the fees are minimal
Base fees with Square are 1.6% regardless of card with only hardware fees. As a micro trader the only way to beat this is through Beem or a cheaper bank based app involves NG . Beem is debit card card to debit card through the NPP
I've just checked and we paid $2.40 on takings of $125 last week, so that would be about 2%. But for us the thing is that there is no minimum monthly fee, like the banks used to take when we were with a bank. No sales, we don't pay the bank anything
I also use square and love it.
Even on $1000 sales that is only like $20.
That $20 I'm happy to pay as it means I don't have to fuck around keeping a paper trail for the cash sales for my taxes, I don't havr to fuck around counting cash and sorting it, and working out if I have been overpaid here or lost some along the way. And the biggest thing is that I don't have to take an hour out of my day to take it all to the bank. That $20 saves me at least 2 hours of my time which I value at $100/h for small jobs.
Homeless people can and do have access to non-cash money. In my experience they actually prefer cashless in many cases because it's much, much safer for them.
>But the homeless don’t have the means to receive non-cash money.
Yes they do. Many homeless people receive centrelink payments for example. And centrelink does not pay cash.
Huh? One can *always* get a 100% free bank account with a debit card in the US without jumping hoops. There are *thousands* of different banks and credit unions -- not just branches of the same handful of banks like in Australia -- to choose from. And there's generally never a fee on either end of a transaction to use said debit card.
This is the first thing my US expat mind went to. As long as this isn't an issue then I don't really see any problems aside from *maybe* privacy concerns.
No. The correct answer is to push back and force them to accept cash.
The problem with the go somewhere else approach is you might get to a point where there are no longer any cash places left.
Think of how difficult it'll be for you to shop if Coles, Woolies and Aldi all decide to go cashless.
You could do it as someone living in a major city as really annoying as that would be but good luck if you live in a remote town that only has one supermarket.
No.
This is how shit like this starts. One does it and then five, then twenty...
These aren't privately owned small businesses, these are national chain stores.
This sort of thing spirals because other big businesses see that other companies are doing it, and copy it to save time and money.
And who suffers for it? The customer who no longer has options. Just card and added surcharges.
There are pros and cons. One of the cons is that everything is tracked and the government (and likely corporations) can and will make use of that information for their benefit.
Bank notes have serial numbers, even with cash people often receive money straight into their account take out then go buy what they want from a store, that store then takes those notes to the bank and deposits them into their bank. While some might move around a bit with change from transactions I suspect most ends up directly from purchaser to seller and the banks being able to determine who is who, the only information they couldn't determine is exact purchase price.
The more people who use cashless the easier it gets to track those who only use cash, thinking that your immune to being tracked because you used cash is naive, while it's slightly harder to setup its entirely possible to track most of your spending.
It wouldn't surprise me if banks already do this to track money flow, however they would be limited by only things where the payee and payer are with their bank.
There is a reasonable argument that if we go entirely cashless, and something happens to damage the infrastructure, we will find ourselves in a difficult position. Like if there was some sort of natural disaster, even if it was localised to one part of the state, it would find people unable to do shopping and so on.
There are other non-conspiracy arguments too. On the whole it would be better if cash remained an option rather than being phased out entirely.
If there was some sort of disaster then how exactly would a cash system fix that? People wouldn't magically have cash they'd have to go to banks and atms which would likely be having issues from the same event right?
That’s why you have to keep some cash on you at all times, with your 24hr bug out bag at the ready. Have you fermented enough food for the winter ahead? Plenty of batteries for your torch?
The more serious preppers hoard gold and silver with some split into cash.
The smart move is multiple supply caches buried with all the basics stored inside.
Having a bit of cash on hand helps. Also if there was a need to distribute funds to people then the donations could come in the form of cash so they could buy essentials. If the money was transferred to a bank account that could not be accessed then it would be useless.
How many stores even deign to trade in cash when just the power is out these days, let alone a more substantial natural disaster.
Face it, when that shit goes down its not going to be capitalism riding to the rescue, saving the day by *checks notes* accepting cash.
Not really. If I was selling weed, I’d only accept payment in the form of a prepaid visa debit card or crypto. I can use the visa debit cards for everyday stuff and the crypto for rent or equipment upgrades, or paying off the higher ups. Cash is what gets dealers caught.
But it won’t be long until it’s legalised. Then the only ones who need to worry are the coke fiends and H junkies.
There are pros and cons of going cashless.
The pros are if you want to track where people are physically and what they are spending money on, then cashless is great.
If you are a bank and you want a percentage of every single financial transaction, regardless of how little or much actual service you provide, then cashless is great.
If you are an advertiser who wants to associate a person with every transaction so you can track buying habits ("I see Susan is buying more ice cream this month, she's probably had another bad breakup, we should start showing her more ads for dating sites") then cashless is great.
If you are an unscrupulous government (otherwise known as just "a government") and want to punish and coerce people by locking them out of the ability to buy *anything*, including food, then cashless is **absolutely fantastic**. (Hello Canada!)
If you are a would-be thief but aren't brave enough to actually rob a bank or a store in person, where you might get hurt, then cashless is great. Nothing is as great for financial theft as the cashless economy.
If you are one of the fortunate 1% who have so much wealth in the bank that you never, ever need to worry about affording anything you buy, and have completely bought into the consumerist mindset, then cashless is great. (Having to actually count out paper money for a purchase, like some sort of caveman, gives you a physical cue of how much money you are actually spending, and who wants that?)
The cons are exactly the same, except they apply to everyone else.
I worked for Dome coffees for a number of years and it’s probably been at least a decade, and I can still recall with crystal clear clarity the time I had a customer pull a five dollar note out from her tits and we’re talking Perth in Summer, so pretty fucking feral (weather, not the chick). I’m till kids looked at me with the widest of eyes and clearly didn’t want to handle the money, but I as I had gloves on from restocking the cake, it was a fairly simple matter for me to step in.
On one hand, [points up] I get it from a ‘hygiene’ perspective because some folks ARE fuckin feral and money is beyond filthy. I generally don’t use cash up in the States where I currently am, but that is simply a matter of convince (I’m in Washington so I still have to hit the ATM if I am also hitting up the dispo).
I will flat out REFUSE to convert to a cashless society. NO ONE needs to know how I spend every goddamned penny I chose to distribute. There is categorically no goddamned need beyond them being greedy, invasive fucks. Well guess what: fucking work for it if you want to try and spy on me.
Fuck right the hell off. They can pry my notes and coins from my grubby little paws when they’re brave enough to try.
You expect someone to wash their hands after serving every single customer? Not only a waste of time for unsafe for the employee. No soap is 100% safe for the skin as that is the reason it works so well.
Or adopt system like elsewhere. A person handling cash whilst others do the food prep. More logical than what I see here. Use of gloves to be ‘hygienic’ whilst same glove used for cash & food prep.
I used to work at a bottlo. We had the same customer come in every week with clearly infected hands / fingers. He could count out the exact change and hand it to us. It made me physically ill each time.
I don't care.
I seriously don't fucking care.
I've got bigger things to worry about than a fucking chicken shop charging me a couple extra bucks for the people with shares in banks that make billions because of it. No doubt I profit from it anyway as I assume my superannuation invests in banks.
We're the problem and I don't fucking care any more.
Retail Banks in Australia make the vast majority of money from home and business loans.
It’s the international payment providers that benefit most from card like Mastercard/visa and even ApplePay surcharges for those paying through Apple. EFTPOS is cheaper and the members of the EFTPOS group in Australia are the Australian banks.
It really does feel like that I try to live this way too also but I definitely can't stop thinking about it but I definitely just pay it just so I can go
It's a kind of gtfo of here tax rn
Listen to Mister Moneybags over here, being all edgy and not caring about non-stop arserape from the banks. KFC charges 9 dollarydoos just for delivery, even from 5 minutes away, you okay with that too?
Tell us about all the other day to day transactions you're nonchalant about paying a few bucks extra for.
On an unrelated note, if I PM you my deets, can borrow tree fiddy from you? Just until next Fridee brah? I'll pay you back as soon as me mum pays me back for the KFC feast I got her last Tuesdee. Plus delivery.
Do you understand what the word “choice” means? It means YOU decide whether or not you purchase food from there. Stop acting like you’re forced to eat shit food. And grow up you stinge.
The market is as simple as can be though. If people continune to allow themselves to be raped, as they seem to be doing, then things will continue. Once profits are affected, all the fuckers will reign it in but the queues at these stores dont seem to be getting smaller. The market is still at the mercy of people.
Legally, if there is no option to avoid the surcharge, the surcharge has to be incorporated into the displayed price (and is, therefore, no longer a surcharge).
Which is dumb, because a company can provide a gift card / voucher as a non fee payment option.... Which if they only accept card and the voucher, you would've paid a surcharge for anyway.
EFTPOS providers provide a service that they charge for. Whether it is listed separately, or included in the price is mostly irrelevant because you as the customer are paying for it one way or the other.
The issue is that economies of scale mean that small businesses pay a much higher percentage for these transactions than corporate giants.
>Begs the question if card is so much more convenient for business why are they still allowing surcharges
This. Assuming a business is paying their taxes/staff properly, card is generally cheaper to accept. Businesses have already effectively priced in accepting cash into their prices.
I get 20 years ago, this wasn't the case and accepting cards had some higher costs. But the world has changed and businesses simply charge the fees now because a) it's allowed, b) community has accepted it due past reasons and c) they make more money.
It really needs the Government to step in and regulate at this point. Particularly if they are card only, then they shouldn't be allowed to add a surcharge unless a card/payment has a significantly higher fee of acceptance - ie AMEX, Afterpay etc.
Of course regulation exists. Which is exactly why I said Government needs to step in and regulate because it needs to be updated as it no longer reflects the market as I pointed out above.
"*c) they make more money.*"
No. As u/batch1972 said, the surcharge cannot exceed the "reasonable costs of accepting payment types".
So, business would not make money from the surcharge.
If you weren't so fast to 'well ackshually' what I said, you might have read my post with the entire context.
I did not say they make money from charging the fee. I said that they have included the cost of accepting cash into their prices. By charging a card fee on top, they are effectively making more money from the transaction because they also don't have the costs associated with cash.
A basic example, Bob sells widgets for $100. Bob understands that it costs him about 3% to accept cash and has factored that into his pricing. Accepting a card costs Bob 1%.
Bob charges a 1% fee for cards, so every card transaction is $101. Every cash transaction is $100.
Bob makes $97 for every cash transaction, and $100 for every card transaction once you take out the costs associated with payment methods.
Therefore, Bob makes more money from charging a card fee and is still complying with the law.
You’re 100% right. I still accept cash in my food outlet but for how much longer I don’t know. Cash makes up less than 6% of sales now and with the constant, meth heads and eshays getting around even having cash in the store after 8pm is just getting riskier.
the big three... ie. Maccas HJs KFC have sort of moved away from cash...
by going to apps and putting the best deals thru it
and that's fine for me
i wouldnt use cash at maccas lol... because the 'over the counter' offers are too expensive
its the carrot or the stick again
which ones work best i wonder
When you look at sales for brands like kfc over 90% of purchases are typically card and heading strongly towards majority self ordered (apps, self serve kiosks)
Sooooo it doesn’t really matter.
My wife works in the bank gets only 2 types of people who complain about cashless society - old people unwilling to change and rural people.
Theres 1 other demographic who complain about it - businesses doing cash jobs.
The majority of people do not fall into these categories and I honestly cannot think of the last time someone actually complained about this in person. The only people who complain are people who post to forums.
Generally I give zero fucks about cash, but you're absolutely right about the surcharges. Using cards for payments is cheaper for businesses than cash, and whatever their banks charge them for the convenience is a tax write-off.
Banks are closing up and the ones still operating don't want to accept cash...YES, THE BANKS DON'T WANT TO DEAL WITH CASH!! so SURPRISE!! We are being pushed onto becoming a cashless society and all's well until the Internet crashes.
Went to swap some coins for notes a little while ago. Walked into NAB and they said “sorry we’re cashless”
TF?
You have to use the deposit machine. I didn’t want that money in my account. I wanted cash.
There’s been times during natural disasters where people have been caught out because nothing ends up working.
Or what I’ve experienced when you go to buy lunch but there’s a big EFTPOS outage and instead the shop just decides to close instead of accepting cash. More business for the shop next door then who’s happily accepting cash despite the outage.
"The internet crashes" doesn't make sense. The internet is fault tolerant by design, if one path fails traffic just gets routed elsewhere.
If you're referring to specific outages e.g. when CBA is unavailable, people just need to be cultured on having multiple bank accounts with some emergency cash to avoid this type of scenario.
Not good enough. People don't need to be " cultured" in that regard and be responsible for preparedness for emergencies. It's either or, either you provide perfect service or don't expect people to agree to go cashless because from time to time you may, just may to be lucky and service doesn't "crash".
"*don't expect people to agree to go cashless*"
Hate to say this but no-one is going to ask. It will just happen over time.
Raise it with your local MP
No loss to me I haven’t eaten Nandos in years and don’t intent to.
I went outside of the MCG last night to a food truck and asked to buy $14 hot chips. They didn’t accept my cash. They kept their shitty overpriced chips and I kept my $14.
Run cabs.
I'm more and more surprised to see cash.
Turned over more than 3200 personally last week including tolls and booking fees with about 200 dollars of that being cash. The rest account and card.
Cabcharge getting 5.5% inc GST on card transactions are making an absolute killing.
The ACCC needs to step up and legislate - if you don't accept cash, you are not allowed to add surcharges to the transaction.
No "ifs" and no "but's".
This is crap. I won't shop anywhere that I don't have the option of paying cash, because fuck putting cash into the bank's pocket
I agree
IDC if a place decides to be cashless
I do care if they Charge me additional fees based on their decisions
Pre these decisions I primarily used card tbh in Australia
It’s only since they’ve been pushing for cashless I’ve considered using cash
The local Pho spot is still cash only 😂
I have mostly worked in small businesses as an adult, every single business has preferred customers to pay with a card. We never charged fees, any charges were built into the costs of what we sold.
IMO the only businesses saying they prefer cash are not paying tax.
Don't mention that you prefer paying cash, the downvoters will come at you so hard that they will sprain their thumbs from smashing that downvote button lol. I got like a hundred downvotes once for saying I prefer paying cash 🤣.
As a broke ass bitch who gets paid cash in hand (literally) and can't be added to go to a bank, I get annoyed when I hear about places not accepting cash. I don't want to have to take my money, put it in my bank account, just to buy lunch.
On the plus side though, the only places I hear about doing this are places I shouldn't be going any way. It's better for me to spend my money on fresh veggies instead of fast food. More expensive? Yes. More healthy? Also yes. It's worth it to sit there eating burnt broccoli and pumpkin for dinner for the third night in a row instead of buying stuff that won't be filling and worsen my health conditions.
So fuck Nando's. I don't go there anyway. Just so long as the shops that sell essentials always accept my cash, I'm fine.
I'm a private tutor to get me by cause my last job fired me with basically no notice, and my new job doesn't have a contract for me until June. It's not a formal form of employment. I'm basically just helping a friend's kids with their homework and she compensates my time.
I am unemployed. I don't pay tax cause I get paid $60 a week and have to live off that. I don't want to lose any of that tiny bit of money to tax.
Once I have a job I can live off, I'll pay tax again.
> I don't pay tax cause I get paid $60 a week and have to live off that. I don't want to lose any of that tiny bit of money to tax.
All you had to say. Not placing money in the bank in an effort to dodge tax, the repercussions of which being the inability to order at nandos.
It's the hassle of having to go to a bank or deposit machine (which are too few and hard to find sometimes, and that's when they actually work) to deposit their pay to then be able to use it to buy food.
Sure, they can ask their employer to PayID the pay to them, but that's another issue altogether.
Uh, no. The point of my original comment was I don't really care cause I don't go to places like Nando's anyway. So long as my essentials accept cash I'm good.
I'm a private tutor to get me by cause my last job fired me with basically no notice, and my new job doesn't have a contract for me until June. It's not a formal form of employment. I'm basically just helping a friend's kids with their homework and she compensates my time.
I am unemployed. I don't pay tax cause I get paid $60 a week and have to live off that. I don't want to lose any of that tiny bit of money to tax.
Once I have a job I can live off, I'll pay tax again.
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I don't really care about big chains being cashless, as they don't have card surcharges. The amount on the board is what you get billed.
It's the local cafes etc that annoy me, making it difficult to pay without incurring some additional fee that should already be factored into their base price.
*You can still pay with*
*Cash at KFC and nandos, their*
*Sign says card preferred*
\- Ogolble
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Every time you tap your card the government and the banks receive a portion of it. You pass that money around enough times and guess where it all eventually ends up? Also last time my area had a big power outage, people without cash were completely screwed. No food. No fuel. What happens when the services are down?
Depends on the business when we used to sell at markets we used square and there was no surcharges ( before 2020) you can choose to charge a service charge but think that is awful. I don't know why businesses aren't swapping to eftpos services that don't charge a surcharge. What the banks charge to set you up is expensive. You would think businesses would get rid of bank eftpos to make customers be more open to using cards.
I have no issue with this ... i haven't seen cash since 2019 :D
I was shopping in coles yesterday (that was boycott day) and given the crowd in there, i think their boycott was a bit of a fizzer ....
They haven't seen the need to investigate this because, well it took them this long to investigate that Colesworth were playing the system. Can you see the pattern?
IMO - death to cash.
I listen to all of the arguments about it, and look at all of the tradies dealing in cash and dodging income tax which we all have to pay for.
the arguments are clear on both sides, but so is the best outcome which is that the less cash - the better.
Until the whole of Australia has internet coverage, it will not work.
Banks are profiting on card use in retail.
Self security, they, the government, chain stores, and the banks know what what we eat, drink, and purchase. Data information can be directed to the sale price of items.
Cashless societies affect homegrown charities, garage sales, kids' lemonade stands, buskers, social events, sausage sizzles, cake drives, and even your kis pocket money for chores. So many other areas of society will be affected.
Looking into the future, I believe there will be a satellite war. Check out satellite ownerships.
Cash has to stay as legal tender, and privacy has to be protected.
yes if card is the only option then a surcharge makes no sense. and this forces all people to rely on banks to use this service when that isn’t always an option or the best option for someone
Hmm can you be racist against yourself?
I love how you assumed that in “ask an Australian” i must be “tru blu, vegemite eating, vb drinking, thong wearing, white anglo named John aussie”…you know there are us who are aussie that dont look like you mate. I mean you assuming that is “charming casual racism”
Hygiene concerns?
One- employees handling food should be washing hands regardless.
Two- employees better then be banned from using their germ ridden mobile phones at work also.
Someone could clarify for me but if a business refuses to take cash then they can't have a surcharge.
They can - but they must also have an option without a surcharge. This is usually covered by the ability to select “savings” on the eftpos machine. It’s using visa, Mastercard etc that brings the surcharge usually. ETA: this is not correct.
I use Apple Pay but set my card to “Cheque” and still get stung the surcharge.
Pretty sure it still uses the credit system as it's paypass Everywhere also manages this different... Which is annoying
Using my visa debit card via contactless on an EFTPOS machine goes through the credit system and gets the surcharge. To use savings or cheque via EFTPOS you have to swipe or insert the chip. When you select cheque it's probably just changing the account it comes from or the virtual account it goes through.
Yeah I have since been corrected.
That select savings thing is a myth dating bacvk to how your financial instituton treats the transaction. The eftpos provider charge is a completly seperate thing regardless of what you press.
No this is not correct, if you choose savings then the “eftpos” system is used to process the transaction. If you choose visa debit/mastercard debit you’re using the “credit” system to process the transaction. These 2 services charge different fees, generally eftpos is much cheaper so most places don’t charge a surcharge for it
It is correct, and if it's supplied by a third-party provider, it's the same system. Source: I own a small business, and I am acutely aware of what I am charged for processing card transactions. For me, it's the same rate no matter what they press.
Not all shops will use the same processor, not all will be charged the same fees, and not all will pass the charges along the same way. Just because you're charged one way doesn't mean the overall fee structure others have mentioned is incorrect. Ever wonder why Aldi has a surcharge on credit/paywave but not EFTPOS, even with the same card? Pretty sure they aren't discouraging people from the faster option for laughs.
Can you give any insight into why a business would bother having to add a surcharge and not just build it into the cost of the product?
When I refer to “system” I mean on the digital side of things not the physical unit. Completely different companies process different transaction types, you’ll notice on the card receipt it will mention EFTPOS savings or VISA/MASTERCARD debit which refers to the route the transaction took to get processed. The transaction merchant your small business uses may lump it all into 1 fee for you to make it simpler for you but that’s not actually how the transaction is processed
What happens in the background is absolutly irrelevant. How it is charged to the small business and what they pay for the service is all that matters.
it kind of does, it sounds like you're getting screwed over so your provider can simplify your bill for you
It’s not really, most merchants pass on the relevant fees, yours is just passing on a larger rate for all transactions. Definitely something for you to look into to reduce your overheads!
>Definitely something for you to look into to reduce your overheads! How many ways can I say the same thing in a way you will understand? What you are suggesting would cost me more, not reduce my overheads. What you are talking about is Merchant Choice Routing which determines if eleigible transactions go through the Eftpos network or the Visa / Mastercard network. What you don't understand is that using the eftpos network isn't always a saving, nor is it offered on every platform or even on every terminal from the same institution. It is almost soley a thing with bank supplied physical eftpos machines (which you pay a monthly rental on) and is really only of benifit to bigger stores or chain stores with large turnover and typically larger transaction. It isnt even available on every type of bank supplied eftpos machine. But for smaller businesses that either don't do a lot of eftpos, primarily smaller transactions or run online stores or online payment portals, the benifit isnt there and often it's not even an option. Pay attention next time you are buying a coffee and you will see a lot of small business use SmartPay, Square, Stripe and a host of other 3rd party EFTPOS providers with products suited to their business needs. For convenicence (the entire reason we have Eftpos) its usually an easily understood and calculated flat rate from those vendors eiter as a monthly fee or a percentage of the transaction.
Businesses are mandated (or about to be mandated) to use least cost routing. Meaning if you tap to pay (maybe other options also) they are compelled to use the cheapest payment method regardless of whether that usually would have been credit/visa/mastercard/eftpos. So if you're tapping to pay if eftpos is cheaper it will be routed through eftpos automatically.
No one is looking at your card. You'll get a surcharge as soon as that card comes out
Majority of systems automatically apply the surcharge depending on what your payment method is rather than the person serving you manually choosing.
Aah, thank you for the correction :)
My (small but locally-based) bank doesn't allow savings transactions to use non Visa/Mastercard transactions. Cheque, savings or credit - all use Visa. After hunting them down for a reason why all their new cards changed, they explained it was due to bank fees with Eftpos. I carry cash with me in case as a result. Regardless, using the app to preorder allows significantly better savings on an otherwise expensive fast food takeout.
Their online ordering app is usually the option with no surcharge.
To properly clarify it... under advertising laws, whatever price you advertise to customers has to be the actual price the product costs. So, if a burger is $15 on the menu, then it must be available at that price. Additional fees are only legal if for an additional service on top of the burger and it has to be an optional service. For example if you want extra beetroot, that can cost extra. If you want to pay by a specific payment method, then that can cost extra. If you pay with the chip and select savings, most places that charge a surcharge for cards will not charge the surcharge... but it's also an uninsured transaction. If your burger tastes like shit and they refuse to give you a refund, then all you can do is take them to court. With Visa/Mastercard you can call your bank and ask them to reverse the transaction. That service is mostly what the surcharge is there for.
They must provide a surchargeless method That method can be efpos
or it can be by not having a separate surcharge.
That was my understanding as well
This is where I strongly agree with the RBA’s push for lowest cost routing of eftpos transactions. I also think every debit card should be forced to have Eftpos functionality (some are credit only nowadays). The banks don’t want to implement LCR though because they get a fat slice of the exorbitant credit card fees paid by merchants
Well worded - Coles and Woolworths and their many sub companies such as Dan Murphy's, BWS etc set PayWave transactions when using a debit card to go via EFTPOS payment scheme instead of Visa due to LCR, with debit cards being dual network. However with Google Wallet/Pay (and maybe Apple Pay) transactions PayWave goes via Visa or Mastercard depending on the brand on the card. Being a non-Apple user I'm not sure if it is possible however with Samsung Wallet you can set your debit card to go via Credit or EFTPOS.
If a business refuses to take cash, you should take your business elsewhere.
Why do you believe this? Genuinely curious?
They can but it needs to be worked into the displayed price of goods
This sucks. Was at healsville sanctuary and my 7yo brought cash she had saved to buy something from the gift shop. They said they were now cashless, but the guy was nice enough to let my daughter pay cash - but it shouldn’t be this way. She is learning the value of savings and money and it’s not the same using a card for all payments.
Thoughts are that people don’t realise where this path will lead. Also, banks are salivating for everything to be in accounts - think of all that extra money for them to use for investing and to gain interest on. Going cashless removes control at the individual level.
Without the need for cash why should people have traditional bank accounts? Banks are hoping legislation protects them.
“you’ve done this wrong, you won’t have access to any of your money until you correct it”
Bansk can't use money in savings accounts It's just a law
>How does this really affect the Community who still rely on Cash to get by Australia is not like the US or UK. Anyone can get a 100% free bank account with debit card. You don't have to jump through hoops e.g. proving you have a permanent address.
But the homeless don’t have the means to receive non-cash money. Same with small business owners (like, those who set up a market stall) who can’t get that initial down payment for a Square card reader etc. It’s a small amount of people who would have to solely use cash but it’s still an amount. Plus people escaping domestic abuse situations where their partner controls and tracks their online banking.
None of this is true since the 90s, dude. Wireless readers are endemic amongst market stall/food truck types. And if they're tracking their online baking they're going to see receipts or cash out statements.
Cash out statements, yes. Proving that there is a need for cash.
How is that proof? Is this hypothetical abusive spouse going to ignore the cash out statements? Are they hypersensitive to the abusee buying prepaid visa cards? If they're controlling, then they're going to be grilled about shopping receipts or bank statements not lining upx assuming in this scenario they even have their own accounts or cards. It's positing a hyper specific level of concern for this hypothetical relationship. It's not proof by any metric because it doesn't create any advantage for the escapee.
We bought a square card reader a couple of years ago and have found Square great. The device cost us $50 total for everything, and the fees are minimal
Aren't Square fees something like 2%?
Base fees with Square are 1.6% regardless of card with only hardware fees. As a micro trader the only way to beat this is through Beem or a cheaper bank based app involves NG . Beem is debit card card to debit card through the NPP
I've just checked and we paid $2.40 on takings of $125 last week, so that would be about 2%. But for us the thing is that there is no minimum monthly fee, like the banks used to take when we were with a bank. No sales, we don't pay the bank anything
I also use square and love it. Even on $1000 sales that is only like $20. That $20 I'm happy to pay as it means I don't have to fuck around keeping a paper trail for the cash sales for my taxes, I don't havr to fuck around counting cash and sorting it, and working out if I have been overpaid here or lost some along the way. And the biggest thing is that I don't have to take an hour out of my day to take it all to the bank. That $20 saves me at least 2 hours of my time which I value at $100/h for small jobs.
Homeless people can and do have access to non-cash money. In my experience they actually prefer cashless in many cases because it's much, much safer for them.
Can't they take their cash to any auspost to deposit it?
I was thinking more that nobody was giving them cash because nobody carries cash anymore.
>But the homeless don’t have the means to receive non-cash money. Yes they do. Many homeless people receive centrelink payments for example. And centrelink does not pay cash.
I've had homeless people beg with a little square card reader puck before
I saw somewhere that you can use certain mobile phones as card readers now.
Huh? One can *always* get a 100% free bank account with a debit card in the US without jumping hoops. There are *thousands* of different banks and credit unions -- not just branches of the same handful of banks like in Australia -- to choose from. And there's generally never a fee on either end of a transaction to use said debit card.
This is the first thing my US expat mind went to. As long as this isn't an issue then I don't really see any problems aside from *maybe* privacy concerns.
My mum is old school and had a bank passbook, guess there will be no nandos for her tonight, yay for modern technology
Your mum needs to do something about that and move away from her passbook before it's forcibly taken from her when she's older and even less capable
Not an easy ask, she’s wedded to her passbook and no amount of pleading by the bank will move her on to an ATM card
It's only a matter of time before she's forcibly moved. Nothing stopping from the bank from doing it except politics.
When a business refuses to accept cash, I find somewhere else to go.
Ok bye
This is the only correct answer.
No. The correct answer is to push back and force them to accept cash. The problem with the go somewhere else approach is you might get to a point where there are no longer any cash places left. Think of how difficult it'll be for you to shop if Coles, Woolies and Aldi all decide to go cashless. You could do it as someone living in a major city as really annoying as that would be but good luck if you live in a remote town that only has one supermarket.
You don’t have to eat at Nando’s unless you choose to. You could always support another business that accepts cash, that’s a choice too.
No. This is how shit like this starts. One does it and then five, then twenty... These aren't privately owned small businesses, these are national chain stores. This sort of thing spirals because other big businesses see that other companies are doing it, and copy it to save time and money. And who suffers for it? The customer who no longer has options. Just card and added surcharges.
Or eat at home. Don’t be lazy.
Or let people eat where they choose. Don't be a gatekeeper because you disapprove of takeaway.
Exactly. Eat where you choose. Choose to eat somewhere that charges you for using card as payment, that’s your choice to pay it.
do you realize you ***wont*** have a choice soon?
You'll always have a choice. You just may not like the alternative.
I’ll have to only eat Nando’s?
But Nando's does take exception to cash...
My nan doesn't.
This is not the point. The point is the stealth move to a cashless society.
What’s wrong with a cashless society?
There are pros and cons. One of the cons is that everything is tracked and the government (and likely corporations) can and will make use of that information for their benefit.
Bank notes have serial numbers, even with cash people often receive money straight into their account take out then go buy what they want from a store, that store then takes those notes to the bank and deposits them into their bank. While some might move around a bit with change from transactions I suspect most ends up directly from purchaser to seller and the banks being able to determine who is who, the only information they couldn't determine is exact purchase price. The more people who use cashless the easier it gets to track those who only use cash, thinking that your immune to being tracked because you used cash is naive, while it's slightly harder to setup its entirely possible to track most of your spending. It wouldn't surprise me if banks already do this to track money flow, however they would be limited by only things where the payee and payer are with their bank.
The conspiracy nuts thing it will lead to a surveillance state. While they type on their Big Data connected phones.
There is a reasonable argument that if we go entirely cashless, and something happens to damage the infrastructure, we will find ourselves in a difficult position. Like if there was some sort of natural disaster, even if it was localised to one part of the state, it would find people unable to do shopping and so on. There are other non-conspiracy arguments too. On the whole it would be better if cash remained an option rather than being phased out entirely.
If there was some sort of disaster then how exactly would a cash system fix that? People wouldn't magically have cash they'd have to go to banks and atms which would likely be having issues from the same event right?
That’s why you have to keep some cash on you at all times, with your 24hr bug out bag at the ready. Have you fermented enough food for the winter ahead? Plenty of batteries for your torch?
I live in a bushfire zone, so having a bug out bag is important.
The more serious preppers hoard gold and silver with some split into cash. The smart move is multiple supply caches buried with all the basics stored inside.
Having a bit of cash on hand helps. Also if there was a need to distribute funds to people then the donations could come in the form of cash so they could buy essentials. If the money was transferred to a bank account that could not be accessed then it would be useless.
How many stores even deign to trade in cash when just the power is out these days, let alone a more substantial natural disaster. Face it, when that shit goes down its not going to be capitalism riding to the rescue, saving the day by *checks notes* accepting cash.
Hahaha exactly.
Makes it hard to score weed.
Not really. If I was selling weed, I’d only accept payment in the form of a prepaid visa debit card or crypto. I can use the visa debit cards for everyday stuff and the crypto for rent or equipment upgrades, or paying off the higher ups. Cash is what gets dealers caught. But it won’t be long until it’s legalised. Then the only ones who need to worry are the coke fiends and H junkies.
I don't think higher ups would accept crypto, too clunky to manage.
Once it’s legalised, weed won’t be a concern to get hold of and the quality will be far improved.
It's not an issue for me as I'm on medicinal, but was just using it as an example. I bet the eccy and coke dealers wont be impressed tho. :)
There are pros and cons of going cashless. The pros are if you want to track where people are physically and what they are spending money on, then cashless is great. If you are a bank and you want a percentage of every single financial transaction, regardless of how little or much actual service you provide, then cashless is great. If you are an advertiser who wants to associate a person with every transaction so you can track buying habits ("I see Susan is buying more ice cream this month, she's probably had another bad breakup, we should start showing her more ads for dating sites") then cashless is great. If you are an unscrupulous government (otherwise known as just "a government") and want to punish and coerce people by locking them out of the ability to buy *anything*, including food, then cashless is **absolutely fantastic**. (Hello Canada!) If you are a would-be thief but aren't brave enough to actually rob a bank or a store in person, where you might get hurt, then cashless is great. Nothing is as great for financial theft as the cashless economy. If you are one of the fortunate 1% who have so much wealth in the bank that you never, ever need to worry about affording anything you buy, and have completely bought into the consumerist mindset, then cashless is great. (Having to actually count out paper money for a purchase, like some sort of caveman, gives you a physical cue of how much money you are actually spending, and who wants that?) The cons are exactly the same, except they apply to everyone else.
*accepts
Noted thanks :)
I worked for Dome coffees for a number of years and it’s probably been at least a decade, and I can still recall with crystal clear clarity the time I had a customer pull a five dollar note out from her tits and we’re talking Perth in Summer, so pretty fucking feral (weather, not the chick). I’m till kids looked at me with the widest of eyes and clearly didn’t want to handle the money, but I as I had gloves on from restocking the cake, it was a fairly simple matter for me to step in. On one hand, [points up] I get it from a ‘hygiene’ perspective because some folks ARE fuckin feral and money is beyond filthy. I generally don’t use cash up in the States where I currently am, but that is simply a matter of convince (I’m in Washington so I still have to hit the ATM if I am also hitting up the dispo). I will flat out REFUSE to convert to a cashless society. NO ONE needs to know how I spend every goddamned penny I chose to distribute. There is categorically no goddamned need beyond them being greedy, invasive fucks. Well guess what: fucking work for it if you want to try and spy on me. Fuck right the hell off. They can pry my notes and coins from my grubby little paws when they’re brave enough to try.
I completely forgot about the card surcharge when visiting home. Can't believe it's still a thing
Right? Nowhere else in the world does this.
Hygiene concerns? Just wash your hands. Its not hard.
You ever been given cash some old hag has whipped out from under her bra? It’s fucken mank and happens all the time.
I see ppl rip notes from out of their sweaty shoes, it's disgusting.
Have you ever smelled bills from a prison wallet?
No, but that is the reason I always wash my hands straight after touching money.
You expect someone to wash their hands after serving every single customer? Not only a waste of time for unsafe for the employee. No soap is 100% safe for the skin as that is the reason it works so well.
Nurses manage it.
Or adopt system like elsewhere. A person handling cash whilst others do the food prep. More logical than what I see here. Use of gloves to be ‘hygienic’ whilst same glove used for cash & food prep.
I used to work at a bottlo. We had the same customer come in every week with clearly infected hands / fingers. He could count out the exact change and hand it to us. It made me physically ill each time.
Why not get your next burger from a locally owned business instead, chances are that the prices are comparable and the quality is likely way better
I do.. Have no choice because the closest nandos is like an hour away by train
I don't care. I seriously don't fucking care. I've got bigger things to worry about than a fucking chicken shop charging me a couple extra bucks for the people with shares in banks that make billions because of it. No doubt I profit from it anyway as I assume my superannuation invests in banks. We're the problem and I don't fucking care any more.
Retail Banks in Australia make the vast majority of money from home and business loans. It’s the international payment providers that benefit most from card like Mastercard/visa and even ApplePay surcharges for those paying through Apple. EFTPOS is cheaper and the members of the EFTPOS group in Australia are the Australian banks.
It’s not a couple of extra bucks, it’s like maybe 35c and people explode over it. Hell petrol changed 35c a litre in my area this week alone.
It really does feel like that I try to live this way too also but I definitely can't stop thinking about it but I definitely just pay it just so I can go It's a kind of gtfo of here tax rn
Listen to Mister Moneybags over here, being all edgy and not caring about non-stop arserape from the banks. KFC charges 9 dollarydoos just for delivery, even from 5 minutes away, you okay with that too? Tell us about all the other day to day transactions you're nonchalant about paying a few bucks extra for. On an unrelated note, if I PM you my deets, can borrow tree fiddy from you? Just until next Fridee brah? I'll pay you back as soon as me mum pays me back for the KFC feast I got her last Tuesdee. Plus delivery.
Do you understand what the word “choice” means? It means YOU decide whether or not you purchase food from there. Stop acting like you’re forced to eat shit food. And grow up you stinge.
Not paying cash is totally comparable to rape, well done champ.
The market is as simple as can be though. If people continune to allow themselves to be raped, as they seem to be doing, then things will continue. Once profits are affected, all the fuckers will reign it in but the queues at these stores dont seem to be getting smaller. The market is still at the mercy of people.
No one is being raped, fuck off with this shit.
If they are going cashless, why can't they build the surcharge into the cost of each item? And just not have a surcharge added?
Legally, if there is no option to avoid the surcharge, the surcharge has to be incorporated into the displayed price (and is, therefore, no longer a surcharge).
Which is dumb, because a company can provide a gift card / voucher as a non fee payment option.... Which if they only accept card and the voucher, you would've paid a surcharge for anyway.
What's the difference for us mugs?
EFTPOS providers provide a service that they charge for. Whether it is listed separately, or included in the price is mostly irrelevant because you as the customer are paying for it one way or the other. The issue is that economies of scale mean that small businesses pay a much higher percentage for these transactions than corporate giants.
Cash also has a cost. It's just built into the price.
>Begs the question if card is so much more convenient for business why are they still allowing surcharges This. Assuming a business is paying their taxes/staff properly, card is generally cheaper to accept. Businesses have already effectively priced in accepting cash into their prices. I get 20 years ago, this wasn't the case and accepting cards had some higher costs. But the world has changed and businesses simply charge the fees now because a) it's allowed, b) community has accepted it due past reasons and c) they make more money. It really needs the Government to step in and regulate at this point. Particularly if they are card only, then they shouldn't be allowed to add a surcharge unless a card/payment has a significantly higher fee of acceptance - ie AMEX, Afterpay etc.
there is regulation. They are not allowed to surcharge more that the real cost of the banking transaction.
Of course regulation exists. Which is exactly why I said Government needs to step in and regulate because it needs to be updated as it no longer reflects the market as I pointed out above.
Just like cash only businesses definitely pay all of their tax correctly.
"*c) they make more money.*" No. As u/batch1972 said, the surcharge cannot exceed the "reasonable costs of accepting payment types". So, business would not make money from the surcharge.
If you weren't so fast to 'well ackshually' what I said, you might have read my post with the entire context. I did not say they make money from charging the fee. I said that they have included the cost of accepting cash into their prices. By charging a card fee on top, they are effectively making more money from the transaction because they also don't have the costs associated with cash. A basic example, Bob sells widgets for $100. Bob understands that it costs him about 3% to accept cash and has factored that into his pricing. Accepting a card costs Bob 1%. Bob charges a 1% fee for cards, so every card transaction is $101. Every cash transaction is $100. Bob makes $97 for every cash transaction, and $100 for every card transaction once you take out the costs associated with payment methods. Therefore, Bob makes more money from charging a card fee and is still complying with the law.
>Begs the question if card is so much more convenient for business why are they still allowing surcharges It really does
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You’re 100% right. I still accept cash in my food outlet but for how much longer I don’t know. Cash makes up less than 6% of sales now and with the constant, meth heads and eshays getting around even having cash in the store after 8pm is just getting riskier.
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the big three... ie. Maccas HJs KFC have sort of moved away from cash... by going to apps and putting the best deals thru it and that's fine for me i wouldnt use cash at maccas lol... because the 'over the counter' offers are too expensive its the carrot or the stick again which ones work best i wonder
Who cares, don't go there if it's that big of a deal. The people who do care probably don't go anyway
When you look at sales for brands like kfc over 90% of purchases are typically card and heading strongly towards majority self ordered (apps, self serve kiosks) Sooooo it doesn’t really matter.
The local Nando's was already going customerless for sometime by the look.
My wife works in the bank gets only 2 types of people who complain about cashless society - old people unwilling to change and rural people. Theres 1 other demographic who complain about it - businesses doing cash jobs. The majority of people do not fall into these categories and I honestly cannot think of the last time someone actually complained about this in person. The only people who complain are people who post to forums.
You a literally posting to a forum mate 😂
100% but I dont need to complain about something on a forum I cannot change.
And then eftpos goes down...
Generally I give zero fucks about cash, but you're absolutely right about the surcharges. Using cards for payments is cheaper for businesses than cash, and whatever their banks charge them for the convenience is a tax write-off.
Banks are closing up and the ones still operating don't want to accept cash...YES, THE BANKS DON'T WANT TO DEAL WITH CASH!! so SURPRISE!! We are being pushed onto becoming a cashless society and all's well until the Internet crashes.
Went to swap some coins for notes a little while ago. Walked into NAB and they said “sorry we’re cashless” TF? You have to use the deposit machine. I didn’t want that money in my account. I wanted cash. There’s been times during natural disasters where people have been caught out because nothing ends up working. Or what I’ve experienced when you go to buy lunch but there’s a big EFTPOS outage and instead the shop just decides to close instead of accepting cash. More business for the shop next door then who’s happily accepting cash despite the outage.
"The internet crashes" doesn't make sense. The internet is fault tolerant by design, if one path fails traffic just gets routed elsewhere. If you're referring to specific outages e.g. when CBA is unavailable, people just need to be cultured on having multiple bank accounts with some emergency cash to avoid this type of scenario.
Not good enough. People don't need to be " cultured" in that regard and be responsible for preparedness for emergencies. It's either or, either you provide perfect service or don't expect people to agree to go cashless because from time to time you may, just may to be lucky and service doesn't "crash".
"*don't expect people to agree to go cashless*" Hate to say this but no-one is going to ask. It will just happen over time. Raise it with your local MP
No loss to me I haven’t eaten Nandos in years and don’t intent to. I went outside of the MCG last night to a food truck and asked to buy $14 hot chips. They didn’t accept my cash. They kept their shitty overpriced chips and I kept my $14.
Run cabs. I'm more and more surprised to see cash. Turned over more than 3200 personally last week including tolls and booking fees with about 200 dollars of that being cash. The rest account and card. Cabcharge getting 5.5% inc GST on card transactions are making an absolute killing.
The ACCC needs to step up and legislate - if you don't accept cash, you are not allowed to add surcharges to the transaction. No "ifs" and no "but's". This is crap. I won't shop anywhere that I don't have the option of paying cash, because fuck putting cash into the bank's pocket
I agree IDC if a place decides to be cashless I do care if they Charge me additional fees based on their decisions Pre these decisions I primarily used card tbh in Australia It’s only since they’ve been pushing for cashless I’ve considered using cash The local Pho spot is still cash only 😂
I have mostly worked in small businesses as an adult, every single business has preferred customers to pay with a card. We never charged fees, any charges were built into the costs of what we sold. IMO the only businesses saying they prefer cash are not paying tax.
Never been to nandos before and now I'm sure I never will
Nandos went to shit when they stopped being a fast food joint and tried to become "fancy" anyway. The extra hot burgers actually used to be spicy.
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Don't mention that you prefer paying cash, the downvoters will come at you so hard that they will sprain their thumbs from smashing that downvote button lol. I got like a hundred downvotes once for saying I prefer paying cash 🤣.
As a broke ass bitch who gets paid cash in hand (literally) and can't be added to go to a bank, I get annoyed when I hear about places not accepting cash. I don't want to have to take my money, put it in my bank account, just to buy lunch. On the plus side though, the only places I hear about doing this are places I shouldn't be going any way. It's better for me to spend my money on fresh veggies instead of fast food. More expensive? Yes. More healthy? Also yes. It's worth it to sit there eating burnt broccoli and pumpkin for dinner for the third night in a row instead of buying stuff that won't be filling and worsen my health conditions. So fuck Nando's. I don't go there anyway. Just so long as the shops that sell essentials always accept my cash, I'm fine.
How do you pay tax? Why does your employer pay you cash?
I'm a private tutor to get me by cause my last job fired me with basically no notice, and my new job doesn't have a contract for me until June. It's not a formal form of employment. I'm basically just helping a friend's kids with their homework and she compensates my time. I am unemployed. I don't pay tax cause I get paid $60 a week and have to live off that. I don't want to lose any of that tiny bit of money to tax. Once I have a job I can live off, I'll pay tax again.
> I don't pay tax cause I get paid $60 a week and have to live off that. I don't want to lose any of that tiny bit of money to tax. All you had to say. Not placing money in the bank in an effort to dodge tax, the repercussions of which being the inability to order at nandos.
$60 per week is way below the tax free threshold so he/she doesn't have to pay tax.
which makes OP's decision even more odd.
It's the hassle of having to go to a bank or deposit machine (which are too few and hard to find sometimes, and that's when they actually work) to deposit their pay to then be able to use it to buy food. Sure, they can ask their employer to PayID the pay to them, but that's another issue altogether.
You have $60 a week to live off and choose to spend money at Nando’s?
Uh, no. The point of my original comment was I don't really care cause I don't go to places like Nando's anyway. So long as my essentials accept cash I'm good.
I'm a private tutor to get me by cause my last job fired me with basically no notice, and my new job doesn't have a contract for me until June. It's not a formal form of employment. I'm basically just helping a friend's kids with their homework and she compensates my time. I am unemployed. I don't pay tax cause I get paid $60 a week and have to live off that. I don't want to lose any of that tiny bit of money to tax. Once I have a job I can live off, I'll pay tax again.
Strandbags want to go cashless too - guess they should stop selling purses and wallets then!
That's just a stupid analogy. You can put cards in a purse or wallet.
I like Nando’s. I rarely have cash on me. This is a non-issue.
Not had cash in years. Dont see the problem.
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I don't eat at Nandos
you kinda answered your own question. Cant put a surcharge on cash
I don't really care about big chains being cashless, as they don't have card surcharges. The amount on the board is what you get billed. It's the local cafes etc that annoy me, making it difficult to pay without incurring some additional fee that should already be factored into their base price.
You can still pay with cash at KFC and nandos, their sign says card preferred
*You can still pay with* *Cash at KFC and nandos, their* *Sign says card preferred* \- Ogolble --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
How do kids pay for things in the future?
Refusing to accept cash then charging a surcharge. Grubs!
Every time you tap your card the government and the banks receive a portion of it. You pass that money around enough times and guess where it all eventually ends up? Also last time my area had a big power outage, people without cash were completely screwed. No food. No fuel. What happens when the services are down?
If they won't take my notes and coins - **fuck 'em**.
The Community who still rely on cash to get by now can't use KFC or Nando's. First World problem.
Depends on the business when we used to sell at markets we used square and there was no surcharges ( before 2020) you can choose to charge a service charge but think that is awful. I don't know why businesses aren't swapping to eftpos services that don't charge a surcharge. What the banks charge to set you up is expensive. You would think businesses would get rid of bank eftpos to make customers be more open to using cards.
I have no issue with this ... i haven't seen cash since 2019 :D I was shopping in coles yesterday (that was boycott day) and given the crowd in there, i think their boycott was a bit of a fizzer ....
They haven't seen the need to investigate this because, well it took them this long to investigate that Colesworth were playing the system. Can you see the pattern?
IMO - death to cash. I listen to all of the arguments about it, and look at all of the tradies dealing in cash and dodging income tax which we all have to pay for. the arguments are clear on both sides, but so is the best outcome which is that the less cash - the better.
Have you heard of crypto?
Until the whole of Australia has internet coverage, it will not work. Banks are profiting on card use in retail. Self security, they, the government, chain stores, and the banks know what what we eat, drink, and purchase. Data information can be directed to the sale price of items. Cashless societies affect homegrown charities, garage sales, kids' lemonade stands, buskers, social events, sausage sizzles, cake drives, and even your kis pocket money for chores. So many other areas of society will be affected. Looking into the future, I believe there will be a satellite war. Check out satellite ownerships. Cash has to stay as legal tender, and privacy has to be protected.
I draw out cash from the bank so much each week so I do not overspend and live within my means.
yes if card is the only option then a surcharge makes no sense. and this forces all people to rely on banks to use this service when that isn’t always an option or the best option for someone
Every ethnic/wog tradie in Australia “No Nandos for lunch no moreeee”
Charming casual racism.
Hmm can you be racist against yourself? I love how you assumed that in “ask an Australian” i must be “tru blu, vegemite eating, vb drinking, thong wearing, white anglo named John aussie”…you know there are us who are aussie that dont look like you mate. I mean you assuming that is “charming casual racism”
It’s 2024, please join the rest of us in the future lol who carries around cash these days
The people most upset about this in reality are those doing cash jobs and not declaring their income, which I don't have a whole lot of sympathy for.
Hygiene concerns? One- employees handling food should be washing hands regardless. Two- employees better then be banned from using their germ ridden mobile phones at work also.
My thoughts can be summed up in one simple word. Boycott.