Buying gifts for every occasion. Birthdays, holidays, weddings, baby showers, wedding showers, engagements, graduations. With all of the people in my life, I honestly don't have the money to get gifts for every little milestone or special occasion. I love my family and friends, but it always makes me feel like crap when I can't afford a gift for them when everyone else seems to be able to.
Edit: A word.
I am from a family of 6 (3 siblings and my parents). Several years ago we started doing Secret Santa with each other because it sucked getting 5 okay presents (because everyone worked but only had so much disposable income) when you really wanted something that you wouldn't have spent the money on yourself for in the first place.
It has been about 5 years and it has been the absolute best decision we could have made. Now we spend significantly more time and effort (no necessarily money, and we do have a budget limit) on the one person on things they indicated they liked/wanted and don't have to worry about finding the right thing for EVERYONE. Or feel like you are spending equivalently on every one.
I was poor, went to a very nice college on a scholarship. Said college was attended by primarily rich kids from Long Island. The biggest thing most of them failed to understand was that I was poor because my parents were poor, too. Whenever I said I couldn't afford something, they'd just ask "why can't you just ask your parents for the money?" In their universe, parents were never poor and were a constant source of free cash.
A teacher at my small time college told about when he went to college himself on a scholarship. Also with a bunch of rich kids. He was talking with a friend he'd made about where he lived and the guy said he had three houses around the world. Friend seemed really casual about it but was surprised that my teacher only had one place to live out of college. Later on he was talking to another guy and it was brought up. The new guy said something like "He has three houses? No, that isn't right." Teacher dude responded "Oh so was he just trying no impress me?" "No, he was being modest and didn't want to show off. He actually has like eight houses or something."
It's amazing what the difference between two people at the same college can be.
Yes thanks for the reminder! I was laid off and have had to scale back a lot in the past year, including moving into a cheap, dirty house. Sometimes it feels like I'm back at square one and the last 4 years of upward mobility were a total lie. BUT I am not at the point where I'm adding the price of every item at the grocery store on a piece of paper to avoid overdrawing my account. That was miserable and I don't miss it.
My in-laws have been self employed for about 15 years, and are pretty well off financially. They've gotten completely oblivious to how much things actually cost now. Every time my wife brings up our (not so major) financial troubles, they love to talk about how easy it is to raise a family making $11 and hour like they did years ago. They actually seem shocked that cost of living has increased since 1994 which they refer to as "just a few years back".
The rich guy in charge of mergers and acquisitions at a mid-sized dot com I used to work saw my coworker pull into the parking lot with his 10-year old Ford Mustang. My coworker was not that well off, and was a bit underpaid in his position at the time. Rich dude walks into the building with my coworker and says, "so, you like collecting Mustangs? I got a few myself."
That is my coworker's only car.
The rich man's default assumption is that other people all have more than what they are showing. They have to be told, "no, this is my only car/suit/watch/vacation." But saying that feels bad so, like my coworker, we just nod and let the rich guys keep talking about their collections.
I once had a boss openly mock a coworker for driving an old car. It's not like he didn't know exactly how little she was paid but he was both an insufferable douche and completely removed from reality and what it takes to make ends meet. If you make $35k/year, live in a large city and have student loans, chances are you can't afford a car payment.
I had a boss tell me that a reliable car "is really something you should invest in. In the real world, you can't be late for work all the time because your car keeps breaking down."
This was after the one and only time I was late due to car trouble. He was the owner, and knew he only paid me $8 an hour.
I went to my best friend's wedding recently. Beforehand, I asked them for the registry information, and they said there wasn't a registry and I didn't need to bring a gift. Since I was coming from out-of-town, they said, my presence was enough! I was stupid and believed this, so I got them a card.
Cue two days after the wedding, when my friend messaged me to ask if my gift had possibly fallen out of the envelope and gotten lost.
Edit: to make my friends sound less like assholes, it was the bride who told me not to bring anything and the groom who asked me about it afterward. So there was definitely some miscommunication there. Plus I definitely should have gotten them something, so I deserve it a bit. People have pointed out that they probably wanted to make sure the thank-you cards will be accurate, so that's probably the reason he asked me.
if they said in writing that your presence would be enough (like in a text or something) i would have just copy pasted exactly what they said. Fuck that. Maybe they just wanted to make certain it hadnt gotten lost so they could write up their thank you cards? Otherwise that is completely appalling behaviour.
My SO had that after a 1yo's first birthday party. Invite said DO NOT bring a gift, we arrive to find a table set up with a sign on it saying "presents" piled high with baby toys, and later she gets a message asking where our present may have ended up. Fuck that.
My friend got married (I was MoH) and had asked us to make centerpieces for the wedding, as we're all very crafty and she wanted unique stuff. But she gave us all $50 and told us to turn that $50 into something cool.
She wanted us to wear these long black "infinity" dresses ($20 each) and a corset in a jewel tone. The dresses we're so cheap we could all afford them, but the corsets were not. So she bought 6 of them.
She knew her wedding was a big, expensive affair but she and her husband are well-off (both worked their asses off in the military and then he got a really good civilian job) so they absorbed all the "extra" expenses. I didn't even have to pay for hair or makeup (I did though, because she had already spent a fortune on us).
Finally, on the day of her wedding, she gave all of us a bridesmaid gift, all of which were lovely, thoughtful, unique items to represent our friendship with her, to make up for "all the time and energy you put into making my day special".
She was the absolute opposite of a Bridezilla.
Edit to add, she also had a very specific gift request: she wanted everyone to provide 3 index cards with 3 recipes from our family traditions. She knew some of her guests were well off and some of us were in the middle and some were poor. She wanted to make damned sure we all felt equally valued on her wedding day.
She's a super incredible person. She knows she is in a better financial spot than many of us, but never makes us feel bad about it. When our friend unexpectedly got pregnant, the bride in the story above bought a crib and changing table so the new parents didn't feel stressed about needing those things, and when they offered to pay it back, she said, "Sure! How about you help me paint my loving room?" She's a very generous and loving woman, and I am lucky to have her in my life.
My husband and I paid for everything for the people who stood up in our wedding. We didn't think it was fair of us to ask them to stand up in our wedding and be expected to pay for their dresses/suits/hair/makeup/what-have-you.
It's not just that, success also makes the cost of failure lower.
If you have $100 million and lose $20 million on a risky investment, you will still be fine. If you are barely making ends meet, taking risks can have catastrophic consequences.
Success and wealth tend to generate more success and wealth because they allow people to take larger risks that can have big payoffs if they work out- something a lot of other people cant afford.
That is the problem I have when some wealthy person says "the best advice I have is follow your dreams."
It is just like a lottery winner saying just play the lottery.
I remember reading about a study that had people play monopoly. Some players where secretly given more money than others. The people with more money out performed other players, obviously. When the players with extra money were asked how they did so well, they would claim that their skill and strategy was what allowed them to win.
Edit: Apparently the players with extra money knew they had more money, but still thought their win was based on skill and strategy.
It's worse than that: the players knew that one person had unfairly been given more money. The advantaged players *still* thought it was superior skill that won them the game.
It can be very frustrating when people assume hard work and dedication guarantee success. They think that they worked hard to get what they have therefore anyone who works hard can get the same. Neglecting the fact that predisposition to success and just some plain luck always plays a role.a
When I was in college, I thought I lost my phone. I was scrambling around everywhere looking for it, and I told one of my more well-to-do campus acquaintances that I had misplaced it, and he responded by shrugging and saying "So? Just buy a new one then."
It always amazes me how some people treat a $500 phone as a disposable product, like a toothbrush or a mop.
Ugh. I'm 17 and taking my driving test soon - I keep telling people I'm not going to buy a car because I can't afford it, so many have replied, "Why don't you just ask your parents to buy you one?" Um, because they'd laugh in my face lmao
Currently in the process of trying to buy a car after over a year with my license. I have had to save up money for it for a long time. This is not because my parents simply refuse to buy me one but because it is literally financially impossible for them too and I don't think many people I know understand this.
I ran into this problem a lot when I first started job hunting. I lost out on several opportunities because I couldn't get to work immediately after school
I can't drive due to blindness migraines triggered by flashing lights, so trying to get a job was the worst thing. Like, I have seven years of experience in the field, I'm perfectly qualified, but they always are like, "oh and we'll be using you as a free delivery/pickup service for the office" which first of all, fuck you, no, and second of all can't be done because I CAME HERE TO BE YOUR ADMIN, NOT YOUR COFFEE HOOKUP, I CAN'T DRIVE.
Even as someone who's fairly well-to-do that attitude just strikes me as insane. My car is the best gift that I have gotten in my life and I am extremely thankful for it. It's not some willy-nilly thing that people can just buy any day of the week. I have no idea how those people can be so obtuse about something that's at least a few thousand dollars, well over 10k if it's new...
One of my buddies is like this. After hs I went straight to a university and I'm very grateful that my folks were able to pay for my living expenses (got a fat scholarship so tuition wasn't as much of an issue). My friend dicked around at several different schools where his parents paid for everything. He's always lost or broken brand new smart phones and his folks always just bitch at him for 5 seconds and then buy him a new one. I used the iPhone 4 that my dad bought me when I graduated high school for over 3 years before it finally broke, at which point I paid for a used 4s for $200 on craigslist and got it unlocked so it would work on my network before *it* finally stopped charging. I've driven the same car built in 04 for over 6 years now and it's practically falling apart at this point. After college my buddy was like "Why don't you just buy a new one?". Incidentally, he recently got his car stolen because he left it unlocked and unattended with the keys in the ignition and lo and behold, his parents bought him a new one. It's hard not to get a little irritated with how oblivious he is to the fact that not everyone's families can just dole out money every time you have a big expense, especially because his are almost always the result of being irresponsible
My boss expected everyone to be prepared to telecommute with no support from the organization. He doesn't realize, we have some customer service team members who don't have a computer or internet at home. I realize, having a computer and internet is not restricted to the wealthy, but it does show you what most of us take for granted.
Nonsense. Let's just let them open up a VPN tunnel right into the company's intranet from the virus-laden desktop they got from Best Buy in 2003, that still runs Windows XP. More cost-effective than supplying equipment or support. Nothing could possibly go wrong!
Going out. I have well off friends who think nothing of dropping $100+ on a night out and are surprised when I say I can't go out with them. Or even $50+.
I had a friend accidentally leave his wallet at a work site for the weekend. He asked to borrow cash from me to get by until Monday. It was a long time ago, but I loaned him either $300 or $500. It was part of my rent money. He realized that, and paid me back sooner than expected. I was surprised he would expect to spend that much on a normal weekend.
One thing that I've noticed is that everyone expects you to have that classic college experience. I'm going into my 3rd year of college and school is more of a job for me. I'm not in any clubs, I go to school 2-3 times a week, and I commute over an hour. But my few friends who live on or close to campus are appalled that I'm not getting that "college experience." I wanted it, don't get me wrong. But it's just not in the cards for me.
Oh hey, we'd love it if you'd come skiing with us!
(involves two round trip tickets across country, room at their expensive as fuck chalet hotel thing, rentals and food) uh, no actually we can't sorry, two jobs no life
People usually do that to keep the wedding small then bang out the honeymoon on the same trip. Saves them money and can give whoever has he time or money to come for a large group vacation.
The concept of what is and isn't a "large" amount of money. My parents are really well off and while my husband and I aren't exactly dirt poor, spending $50 on a whim for us is huge, while for my mom that's just the cost of breakfast on a Tuesday. She'll send me links to "cute dresses I should have that aren't expensive!" And it's like a $80 dress.
I think a lot of this has to do with a disconnect in realizing ratio of expense to income. Me spending $50 is the equivalent of her spending $400 in terms of salary equivalency. And that disconnect doesn't let her (or my dad) understand that basic unforeseen cost can be really stressful, even if we aren't what they'd consider broke.
Yes, I have a friend who stole 3k on his dads card to buy shit online, clothes mainly. When his dad confronted him angrily he just said "Oooh its only 3k."
BITCH THATS STILL ALOT OF MONEY
That is more money than I have ever had in savings. The ideas of this both enrages and appalls me. I mean, stealing from your parents? Stealing three THOUSAND dollars? And not thinking it's a big deal?
Don't talk to them in terms of dollar amount. Refer to prices as a percentage of your budget or income. That dress isn't $80, it's 160% of our household discretionary budget. That might put things in perspective if it doesn't annoy the hell out of them.
I'm in the same boat. When I was younger, I remember going places with my wealthier friends and their parents would think nothing of taking us out and dropping $100 on dinner for four. One of my friend's moms took me to get my hair and nails done for homecoming, and didn't understand why I had never had it done before, nor why my jaw dropped when I saw that she'd spent over $100 on both me and my friend.
Even for me right now, at twenty-four, I won't really spend any money "on a whim" unless it's $10 or under. I get most of my clothes at thrift shops or on clearance at Wal-Mart, and that's pretty okay with me. I can't fathom spending $80 on a dress unless it's for a wedding or something!
This may not be exactly what you are asking for but I was the DJ at a country club pool party and had to turn off the music at 10pm due to the city having a noise ordinance. The police come at around 9:45 to make sure the sound is off on time.
At about 9:55 I play the last song of the party and this lady comes up to me demanding I keep playing past 10. I go on to tell her that the club and I will get a fine if I play late. She looked at me like I was crazy and said "oh it's fine, I will pay for your ticket." I just told her no.
Some people think laws don't apply to them because they can afford to pay their fines. The ticket would habe been more then I made during that show.
I have a friend like this, he will ask me to go out and then get pissed if i dont have the cash, he works one day a week, but has had a lot of money handed to him from inheritance and what not, he just cant understand why people have to work so much. And he says "i work one day a week and can afford to do all this stuff, so everyone else should be fine. Everytime he gets low on funds and i start to think maybe now he will learn what the rest of us go through someone in his family passes away and he gets a bunch of money.seriously in the 10 years i have known him he has inherited over 500k.
Real life is going to catch up to him at one point or another. Can’t be reliant on family members passing away and leaving you inheritances forever. In fact I almost feel bad for him because as soon as he runs out of that money he won’t know what to do with himself.
I was a kid from a poor family who went to a high school of fairly well-off people. Some things I'll always remember:
- People assumed the only reason I hadn't ever traveled out of state was because my family was uncultured.
- They assumed I didn't go out to eat with them and would go get $2 of fast food instead because I had no taste.
- Everybody believed the reason I did no extracurriculars at all was because I was antisocial or lazy, not because they all cost money.
- People thought I rode the bus and never got a license because I was a weirdo shut-in or something, not because my family didn't have a functional vehicle.
- A girl who gave me her phone number thought the reason I never called was because I didn't like her, when the reality was our home phone had been shut off for six months due to past due bills.
Really, just the idea of what constitutes basic life experiences differs so much between people who are even middle class and people who are poor.
I am a mother who has put a lot of my resources into my children's education. I have made a lot of sacrifices so that my kids can attend better schools than the ones around our house.
The situations you describe happen to our family. We recently had my husband's hours cut at work, and the same week I lost 2/3 of my jobs.
My oldest son is entering HS, and the things you just described gave me horrible anxiety!
Do you think it would have been better for you to be with peers of your economic station? If you had gone to a less affluent HS, would you have been able to have a better experience?
I actually think it was one of the luckiest possible outcomes for me even if it sucked from a social life standpoint. I was exposed to so much more, had much higher quality teachers, and had a lot of opportunities I would not have otherwise had (I was able to take 8 AP classes by going to that school and knocked out a lot of college early, which ultimately saved tons of money in eventual tuition costs).
There were also some very nice kids I did meet there, ones who didn't care or know about financial differences and gave me the opportunity to enrich myself in other ways (like multiple friends who let me come to their houses and play guitar in their basements, which is literally how I learned how to play) that I'm very grateful for.
Just one person's opinion, but I think you are absolutely doing the right thing.
Thanks for the reply!
It's nice to hear that your experience was a net positive.
There have been studies to come out in the last few years, whose outcomes made me question if I am doing the right thing.
So I appreciate hearing your experience.
I was in the same situation as a teen. Enrolled in a magnet for highschool and the students were very well off. I honestly think my drive and thirst for success came from being exposed to that type of environment. I guarantee you, your kid will thank you in the long run.
That you can "just save up" for things you want. My family has never been super poor, but we are far from rich, and I was discussing once with a friend (who came from a very wealthy family) how my mother was upset because she was the only one in the office for the week because everyone was on vacations in Central America and she wished that she could afford to go on a vacation with her husband, too. My friend was unperturbed by my mother's feelings about this and simply said, "Well, if she wants to go, she should just learn how to budget and save up." When you don't have a lot of money, there's really not that much to "save up," and your savings are often emptied by routine large expenses that come with life - if you need a new car part, get a parking ticket, you need new shoes for work, etc. Poor people know how to budget and save money, but that doesn't mean that everything is within reach.
How tenuous it all is. One car accident that renders me or my husband unable to work, and it all falls apart. We need both incomes to keep our house, cars, insurance - all of it. If we lose one income, the rest would all disappear, too. Yes, we could downsize and get by, but the point is that one accident, or health crisis could really screw us over. If you don't have family money to prop you up, those things are life-altering.
What you're describing is a well-documented and studied concept called the [One Bad Break Test] (https://thebillfold.com/the-one-bad-break-test-706ee317973d) and the U.S. is beginning to fail it badly.
Raising children is a massive financial strain. Childcare alone accounts for an inane portion of some peoples paycheck, and can't just leave one member of the family at home.
That even with financial assistance and grants there are not enough scholarships for everyone to go to college. Got all B-'s in high school? No 3.0? Well fuck.
Edit: Well, unexpected. I was just saying rich people don't seem to understand what an insane expense kids are for the lower classes. They think poor people will just get social security, Medicaid, and good stamps and they'll be fine.
A Redditor posted about a friend who came from a very well-off family.
In a store one day, the Redditor looked at an item and lamented that they didn't have enough cash to buy it.
The rich friend was confused, and asked "Why don't you put it on your credit card?"
The redditor said they STILL wouldn't have enough money to pay the card down any time soon, and didn't want to get into debt. The rich friend didn't know what the Hell they were talking about.
It turned out that the rich friend had never had to pay her own credit card bills; to her, a credit card was just some wonderful bit of plastic that allowed you to get stuff somehow, consequence-free. It rocked her world when it had to be explained to her that someone (her parents) MUST have paid for everything she had ever 'bought' via credit card. I guess the idea of frivolous spending, or living on any semblance of a budget, or the very basics of how money works had simply NEVER come up in her life. They had never needed to.
Oh, for a taste of that life.
/u/RamsesThePigeon
> The following exchange is offered verbatim (or as near to it as I can remember):
> HER: That suit would look great on you.
> ME: (Checking the price) Too bad I don't have $900.
> HER: Just use your credit card.
> ME: I still wouldn't have $900.
> HER: What are you talking about?
> ME: I try to pay off my balance in full when I use my credit card. $900 is more than I can afford right now.
> HER: (Irritated) That makes zero sense. Nobody pays for credit cards! They give them to you!
> ME: Not the card; the balance. The bill.
> HER: What "bill?"
> ME: ... The credit card bill? The one you have to pay every month?
> HER: No, you don't.
> ME: Okay, well, I guess you can make minimum payments, but...
> HER: (Interrupting) What are you talking about?! You are making zero sense. If you don't like the suit, just say so!
> ME: I do like the suit, I just can't afford it. Using my credit card wouldn't magically make it so I wouldn't have to pay.
> HER: You don't pay for credit cards. God, what is wrong with you?
> ME: Wait. Do you mean that you've never paid your credit card bill?
> HER: There's no such thing! Credit cards are so you don't have to pay.
> It eventually came to light that the young woman had been given her credit card by her parents, who paid the balance for her whenever they received a bill. This revelation only occurred after I'd been accused of trying to make her feel guilty for buying sweatshop clothing, though I never did figure out where that connection occurred.
> TL;DR: Credit cards are not the equivalent of free money.
[Comment chain 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/3zx829/whats_the_most_simple_thing_youve_ever_had_to/cypt0ae/)
[Comment chain 2](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/6i8wbq/what_is_the_stupidest_thing_youve_ever_had_to/dj4frog/)
I remember reading a post on /r/relationships about someone who's boyfriend's mom hated them and thought she was purposely avoiding her when she couldn't go on a 10k+ cruise because "it's only 10 thousand how would she not have it?"
Yep, I was invited on a cruise with the ex bf's Mom and sisters once and she offered to pay my way. It was only a few hundred dollars but she knew I didn't have much money. She paid for my ticket and gave me $150 spending money.
There's a lot of generational issues. My parents are pretty well off at this point. I talked a little about struggling with finances and my mom always brags about how they lived off my dad's salary and banked her whole paycheck when she was working. That just isn't possible for us. I think after all our expenses including childcare we barely break even.
Edit: I kinda misspoke. We tend to make more than our expenses, but more often than not there's some sneaky big expense that makes us cut it close.
"We bought our house for $82,000 on your father's full time, union factory job that his father got him out of high school. Yes, a 1 bedroom condo usually goes for $350k around here, and full time union jobs are basically dead, but there's no reason you can't do this"
My dad to me in college: "Just wait till you get to the REAL world, sis. You'll realize it's a lot harder than college."
Despite the fact I paid my way through to become a nurse practitioner. He, on the other hand, got a union job out of high school in the 1970s, made over six figures for decades, still pulls a salary as a contractor, and gets his union pension in his late 50s.
Oh, and he also lived with his mother until his 40s and dodged child support.
When I was born my dad had a good government job. This allowed my mom to take FOUR YEARS off work after I was born. When I was four my little brother was born. At this point, my dad was working as an independent consultant which allowed my mom to take another 3 years off work and my parents to buy a house. God bless the 90s, when my mother was able to take 7 years off work and my parents to buy a house on a single income. After taking the years off, my parents started a company and are doing very well for themselves at this point. My mother has never been stuck up about it in the least. My parents have given me everything and work their asses off to be able to provide me and my brother with every opportunity. An obvious disconnect exists though. I work 40 hours a week making well above minimum wage. Once I cover my rent, I'm left with $400 for the entire month. My mother knows the outlook for my generation is bleak, but she can't understand why it gets to me like it does. To her mind, the job market will come around again. To my mind, I can't wait for that to happen and don't feel entirely convinced that it will. Everything has changed since she was my age. I tell her children aren't happening till I'm in my 30s, she wonders how I can be so sure. I tell her I will never own a property, she says she believes in my ability to do amazing things. I'm finally working a job now where I'm making gains on the company ladder and have found an incredible group of people to work with. It's an ethical company that does really amazing work. It's somewhere I'm incredibly proud to be employed, but it isn't what I want to do forever. I don't know what the fuck I want to do forever...
Childcare is fucking expensive!! I had no idea how much it would cost to keep my babies (twins) when I knocked up the woman who's now my fiancée. Nearly all of her paycheck goes towards putting them in a nice ass daycare. Daycare is meant for poor people who have to work, but sometimes we have to skip meals and donate plasma to afford it. It's fucked up.
Edit: wow, I'm floored by the amount of judgement that's rolling in.
If her whole paycheck goes toward paying for daycare, does it actually make sense for her to go to work?
I saw an episode of one of those evening news shows, 20/20 or Nightline. They had a family that was at their wits end, both parents working hard, one had a night shift, the other a day shift. They never saw each other and weekends they were exhausted. The show had a financial expert go over their income and expenses, they were literally losing money because they both worked. Between the extra car payment, maintenance and insurance, lunches, higher taxable income, etc...they would be in better shape if one of them quit their job and raised their kids instead of daycare.
They were just in shock, they had been busting their ass like this for a couple years and their quality of life was dogshit. Only to find out it wasn't worth it, it was heartbreaking.
Not the case for everyone but then again, when does anyone ever tell you that the cost of going to work could make it not worth it in some situations?
I read an article about this topic somewhere. They did some math and figured a family would lose more money in the long run if one parent stayed home. I'm sure this depends on your career but you would lose possible promotions and may have to start at ground zero when you decide to go back to work. It's worth it for most families to work through the daycare years. Benefits may also make it worth it. Benefits are the biggest reason for me to continue working. I am a teacher so the pay sucks, but my family benefits are covered.
The problem is that the parent who stays home loses not just current but future earning potential, not to mention retirement and losing out on any incremental raises. And if you're out of the workforce for more than a year, the chances of you getting a job in your field are very slim. It's a bad long-term risk.
A rich family acquaintance just sent me a very nice passport holder monogrammed with me initials along with a card telling me I should travel the world since I just graduated from college. I mean shit, I'd love to but useless I forgot about having tens of thousands of dollars somewhere Ill have to make due just exploring my city.
Assuming everyone has social mobility. No, I can't just take the risk of moving away and trying to find another job, if it doesn't work out fast, I'll end up homeless...
When I posted a response on this site about the plight of Native Americans on reservations, someone pointed out that they could all move to the city, get some roommates, find a job and work their way out of poverty because it is just that easy.
I do not want to be trapped in this cycle. I live in my car and sofa hop at the moment whilst working two jobs. No way am I renting a flat when it will soak up my entire income.
Sometimes the opposite is true. I have a mortgage and student loans, but friends with neither seem like they can just go "Well, fuck it. Let's see what's up with the Peace Corps. Or teaching English in Asia."
UGH, I have a friend like this. She does weekend trips to New York and vacations in Cuba, and she doesn't understand why I can't come along with. She's the sweetest and kindest person, she just doesn't get the idea that leaving school/work for two weeks is straight up not an option for me.
When I tell people that I've never vacationed in a foreign country, some of them look at me like I have 6 heads. They don't understand why a young professional like me has never studied abroad or backpacked across fucking Italy or something like that.
Um, I don't know, maybe because my parents lived paycheck to paycheck for the majority of my childhood, and I'm just trying to pay off student loans and save up for my own apartment right now? Maybe that's why?
Hahahaha I just finished my BA and I can't land a job to save my life.
I thought I would at least qualify for something that pays $15 an hour (min wage is $11) or $30k a year.
I've been applying to five jobs a day on average and nothing. A couple have responded telling me they've chosen someone more qualified, but the majority I don't hear from.
It's so frustrating. I'm about to go back to my summer job in a restaurant making minimum wage hoping I will make enough to pay the bills :/
The classic "entry-level" job requiring at least 2 years of industry experience or 4 years in a related field.
Fuck that. I got lucky and worked in a research lab for 3 1/2 years during my undergrad, but that is **far** from the norm. I look at my friends who graduated with the same degree struggle to get monkey-work jobs because employers have asinine expectations. Shit like that should be illegal.
Reminds me of the "work your way up" bs. After being hired for an entry level job, I watched as over a year they got rid of everyone in middle management, and stuck to hiring outside to fill in at the top.
I'd say the expectation that they should just work hard and become successful. Some people work hard all their lives and for myriad reasons never succeed. Others of us get handed a lot of money and never succeed either; it's just a lot harder to fail and for us "failure" just means never getting wealthier.
my father worked hard his whole life and when he was 53 was injured on the job..
Workers comp fought him on paying for the surgery he needed to be able to not live on pain killers, 5 years he walked around with 4 broken disks grinding with no cartilage in between them. Also short term disability denied his claims because workers comp would not do anything. he could not work, he could barely get out of bed.
He lost everything. his house his car his credit. filed bankruptcy, lost the ability to work.
Paid into the system for 36 years like you're supposed to and in the end it fucked him over.
And that's the other side of the story as to how 'you make your own luck'. What happened to him was horrible and no amount of pulling himself up by his boot-straps would have done shit for him.
I get so sick of people saying there's no such thing as luck - that it's just preparedness and ability. That's crap and your father's living proof of that.
My father worked hard his entire life and when he was 48 was injured on the job.
An infection opened up as a result on his foot which was aggravated by his constant driving. No one else in the family was working and Mom was taking care of us at home, so he had to continue working to keep the lights on.
Eventually the infection took his foot and his leg up to his knee. Lost his job, credit and his happiness. Confined to a wheelchair and always fighting against the insurance company he died at 51. Six months before he died, I crashed the only car we had in a storm on the way home from a job interview. Without a car, we had to use MetroLift to get around town which forced my Dad to come each time.
Worked hard his entire life and died poor. It happens.
yea most people who experience medical bankruptcy had insurance.. but there was some fine print or loophole that disqualified their treatment. One accident or illness and you can lose everything you've ever worked for in an instant. That's why we need real health care reform.
She died from carbon monoxide poisoning; she left her car running while she took a nap, and a canister of gasoline she had in the car overturned, spilling gasoline in the driving compartment.
My response to this is asking why they aren't as wealthy as Bill Gates or Mark Cuban.
With everything they have going for them, as difficult as it is for them to double or even just increase their own income by 10%
It's far more difficult for someone starting from scratch to just claw their way from poverty to get to a point where a traffic ticket doesn't instantly ruin them. Any little hiccup that they would skate over is a catastrophe for someone who is impoverished.
This. My grandfather was a farmer who would save ever penny for when times get bad and he never got really rich working hard and saving money. Untill some rich guy said lol ill buy your land and build a funpark on it here you have a couple of millions cya
It definitaly was. He was a farmer in his heart so he just bought a bigger farm and that farm is still in the family. My father now owns the farm and ill maybe take it over in the future so it provided alot of good things for my family.
> I'd say the expectation that they should just work hard and become successful.
Reminds me of musical chairs where it is suggested that everyone could be seated if that last person just learned to be a little faster.
yeah.
I've done shit manual labor in the past--fry cook at McD's, digging ditches, loading hay bales. It's harder than my desk job. Try loading several 30' trailers with hay bales in the summer heat in TX. That's hard work,a nd it pays dogshit.
My boyfriend and I went to a dinner with this couple that I can only loosely call friends back in November. We were blindsided because we thought this was originally going to be a dinner for just the two couples plus one other female friend of ours. When we get to the restaurant, we find out the reservation is for 15 people....
My friends husband proceeds to order the equivalent of two bottles of expensive scotch (by the glass) over the course of the night with his equally douchey, loud and rude friends. When the check came, divided over 15 people it came out to $350 for my boyfriend and I. The kicker was that my friend knew I was the only one working in my house because of a serious heart condition my boyfriend has. I still have not forgiven them for that stunt to this day, and have dialed back our interactions severely since that (and other similar) stunts. I'm glad I'm not the only one that gets extremely peeved by this!
The idea of savings being easy to get. I've dealt with this from friends and family many times, they all assume we have the option to pit back some savings each month. No, we are paycheck to paycheck and behind on most bills, there is no "savings".
That you'll live like a monk. Yes, it's cheaper to eat porridge every meal and not have TV and just get a £5 phone for calls and texts and just have one bulb to save on electricity and don't bother with any furniture. But my god, would there be any joy at all in life?
This is one of those pain in the ass things.
Acting like buying a McDonald's meal that one time is the reason someone got evicted is asinine; anyone that close to the edge was going to have *something* go wrong and fuck them up.
But at the same time, we actually kicked a guy out of our budgeting class because he refused to admit that eating at BK for dinner literally 4-5 nights a week (IIRC he and his wife were spending about 15-20 each time) was bad for his budget and part of the reason he was struggling financially (there were other bad decisions too, but that's the one that jumped out at me). After a few sessions of that we asked him not to return because he was wasting every other attendees time.
The problem is that a lot people will see *one* thing and act like that's the make or break and it's dumb. or they'll see something like someone driving a nice but older car and be offended...we had a client that drove an old but paid for Lexus--that'd he'd bought way before being laid off. It was a very reliable car, and had been (hell still was) pretty nice, but 9 or 10 years old and not worth much to sale, and you need a car that's reliable in our area since we don't have transportation. But people will see stuff like that and get judgy.
When I was on food stamps, it suddenly became everyone's business exactly what I was buying. To the point that I was literally explaining my then-wife's food allergies to complete strangers to shut them up.
>we had a client that drove an old but paid for Lexus--that'd he'd bought way before being laid off. It was a very reliable car, and had been (hell still was) pretty nice, but 9 or 10 years old
When people get pissy at this, I get a bit miffed. It's none of your goddamn business what I drive; poverty doesn't mean I'm living in a mud hut and wearing flea bitten rags.
Also, people can't just easily adjust their lifestyle to their means. When people with a certain wealth lose or reduce their spending ability, they don't cope right away.
> would there be and joy at all in life?
I think this is a big one. Most of the things that the poor are vilified for by the rich are either new necessities (like a smartphone, since that is many people's only internet connection) or joys (treating the family to a nice dinner out, taking a vacation for the first time in years). These attacks never come from a place of knowledge, the attackers never know the truth of the situation but still insist on judging.
By doing this they don't realize that they are basically expecting the poor to live without any of the joys and privileges they themselves have in life. But this fits in nicely with the basic premise that the poor are poor because of their own actions and thus don't deserve help or compassion.
God I wish more people understood this on reddit. You always see people saying "Well, if you can't afford this, you definitely can't do this!" Man, if I don't go and DO something, which 90% of the time requires some amount of money, even if it's just gas money, I will go fucking crazy. I'd like to see them try living without ANY money spent non-bills/groceries/rent. And those groceries better consist of of lentils and beans.
"I did it so you should be able to do it too."
I'm not arguing that opportunity isn't out there for everybody but opportunity sometimes is just having the right idea **at the right time** and being able to meet the right people - That is not to say that successful people don't deserve their success or didn't earn it but 2 people can have the exact same idea and the exact same execution and skillset and one will likely fair outperform the other if they're in the right enviroment.
Like [this article](https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.businessinsider.com/how-ebony-horton-paid-off-220000-worth-of-student-loans-in-3-years-2017-3) ?
*"To anyone who feels overwhelmed by the prospect of taking on student loans - or paying back any debt they've incurred - Horton has a simple message: 'I just want them to feel empowered that they can pay if off. If I can do it, anybody can.'"*
Man, if purge day was a real thing, I'd track that woman down and slap her good. "All you need is a free place to live and a place you can sell for pure profit!"
Being well-travelled. I was guilty of considering people who have never been abroad as being insular and even dull. I failed to appreciate how I could simply afford to do it and that it is a luxury not available to everyone.
"All you need to do to be wealthy is to get a job and work hard."
"I work two full time jobs and barely make ends meet."
"Then go get a better job."
"No one else is hiring."
"Then you should go to school and get a good diploma/degree."
"I already have one, and need to work both jobs to pay off the loans. I also can't afford to go back to school."
"Then just keep working harder and eventually you'll just POOF out of poverty."
"....?"
New Cars.
People have no respect. I drive a 20 year old truck (it still looks good) and everyone always makes a semi insulting comment about how old it is. Not all of us want another loan on top of our already crippling student debt.
"You should totally travel more! Traveling is great for the soul! You learn so much about your life and yourself!"
Sure. I'd love to spend summer breaks from Uni experiencing Italy and skiing in France and tanning in Bali. But, I have to work a incredibly low paid retail job to earn a bit of spending money, write freelance to build a CV and make use of the teeny tiny town my parents live in as my source of relaxation and fun.
I'd rather be traveling, trust me. That's the plan for after my postgrad degree but for now, please excuse my non-well-traveled sneer at your two week stint in London.
Yes I'm bitter.
Free time. The more money you have, the more you can hire people to do things for you and/or pull away from what you're doing a little bit. When you're struggling, you do it all to conserve money, and even then, you don't have enough.
I used to go out for dinner occasionally with an exceedingly wealthy friend.
But when the bill came, he'd always expect me to pick up the tab - as if it were a *privilege*, as a person of relatively humble means, to be in the company of such a successful, affluent person.
I was going to come in and post the exact opposite of this.
I can't say I'm rich, but I do good considering where I live. If I had made the plan to have dinner, I always pick the bill for it. I always thought my friends might think I'm a prick for doing that
I had a really embarassing situation as a kid where I was invited to Taco Bell by a friend's mom, and after I ordered, she expected me to pay. I don't view it as a rich/poor thing, I just think it's weird to assume a 7-year old carries around money.
It scarred me, and my policy now is that if I invite you, I expect to cover the cost. If you want to chip in or cover your costs, I'll happily accept, but I always assume the other person can't afford it.
I feel like sometimes, in especially impoverished areas it is unrealistic to expect that people are healthy enough mentally to even think about getting to where they're at. Or even liking themselves enough to WANT to succeed in life.
Like, imagine growing up on an indian reservation and seeing all the abuse that happens. It's a sick cycle, and I can say from experience, that it's extremely hard to crawl out from that kind of ugly. You don't even ever really realize it's bad until AFTER you get out, and try to make something of yourself. I feel like people don't realize the lack of support you get, from family, friends, or the outside because everyone is too focused on their own survival to help.
I was 21 and working for a married pair of doctors for less than $10 an hour. When I got pregnant, she suggested I hire a nanny so the baby would be cared for all day and, when I get home from work, the house would be cleaned and dinner ready. Seriously not sure if she had any clue what she was paying me.
*"You can go to the travel agents and book cheap flights for a week or two away"*
True, but I'd also need insurance, passport, luggage, clothes, money for food etc etc.
That anything that comes easy for them comes as easily for everybody else. That everybody is as confident and comfortable with asserting themselves as they are. That everybody has the energy to pursue their goals with the same tenacity as those who have access to AC in the summer, shoes that don't hurt your feet, actual nutritious food, a doctor only a phone call away and a family to share the burdens with.
When you have that kind of support in your life, even tough decisions and demanding situations can be quite doable.
In contrast, a close relative of mine just lost her house in a fire, her husband died mysteriously in an elderly care, she recently had hip surgery and lives on a very small pension. She gets up every morning and keeps her life more or less in order. That, in my humble opinion, is proof of an inner strength several orders of magnitude above the successful people half her age who boast about their discipline on Instagram whenever they've lost ten pounds dieting.
(Not that there's anything wrong with dieting, but, perspective, folks!)
I need to move this next month just to finish one final course for school, and even that's already stressful. My dad said, 'theirs these single apartments I was looking at for $700 a month, and there's this place and that place to get a job!'
When I look at moving, I look at that 700 and know I already had trouble affording $450 a month in the past. I look at those potential jobs and know it's fucking ridiculous to put your eggs into the same basket and assume you *can* live in this expensive apartment *because* you can get this job you don't even qualify for in a town you don't even *live* yet. I don't understand the delusion that he still has that you can just *get* a job by talking to the right people. He literally wants me to drive several hours away to speak to these people and get a job when I already know they're goona tell you the same thing they tell everyone. Either drop off a resume or apply online.
It's frustrating dealing with that disconnect to how difficult finding work is when they've been in a stable career for 30 years and you need to scrounge just to make anything barely above minimum wage even *with* a degree. It's more frustrating that they don't acknowledge they don't actually understand that they're disconnected from those realities and insist their ideas are the correct solutions when in practice such things have already failed in the past.
"Get a job? ***Get a job?*** Why don't I just put on my *job-helmet* and squeeze down into a *job*-cannon and fire off into ✨***job-land***✨ where ***jobs grow on jobbies?!***"
On a simple note, my neighbor constantly asks questions about my purchases like "why did you buy that? For a few thousand more, you could have . . ." or "hey, I was just online at (any store you want to insert here) and they have this (insert again) that would work perfect for you, you should grab it". He buys what ever he wants and then so should everyone else.
My boyfriend is from a very well-off family and when we were younger he did stuff like this all the time. "But for $100 more, this one is so much better and will last longer!" You're right, but I don't HAVE 100 extra bucks right now. ...He meant well but just didn't get it.
I guess this is less about being wealthy, but the generational difference of the cost of tuition. I hate hearing the classic "all these college students with all of these loans. They should just work and pay for their college out of their pocket like I did and not load up so much debt."
Right.
Because tuition today versus thrity years ago isn't over triple what it was back then. One year of tuition at most public colleges runs close to what I make in a year at my current job.
They forget almost everything is a tradeoff between time and money. Sure, you can save money by fixing your car yourself. But you have to spend a lot of your time to make up the difference. Same thing with cooking for yourself or most other things richer people point at and say, "You could save money by..."
Since time is a limited resource in any life, poor people are frequently forced into the position of choosing a more expensive option, whether they want to or not.
That they "pull themselves from their bootstraps".
Very often rich people don't realize how much luck, privilege and other unseen factors have played in their success. It's all hard work. They don't realize what it is like to be trapped in poverty.
wasn't this supposed to be some sort of joke phrase, like to show how asking the poor/working class to do the impossible is a dumb way to try and inspire them?
Exactly. The phrase originated as a criticism of this idea, implying it's impossible. Somehow people missed the implication and started saying it seriously.
I love how my boss will think I have more money than I have.
I have not been able to afford decent new cars and it's one of the many pit falls of being poor; you need decent reliable transportation, but you can't afford a payment of any kind.
Because of this, and living in a state without a lemon law and shady mechanics, buying a used car is always a gamble and one I've always lost.
She bitches about my cars constantly because they tend to be unreliable, needing a lot of maintenance, or I don't have them for long. Cars for me, at this point in my life are like a Bic lighter - they're fucking disposable.
But she's always telling me about how there's a nice "2010 accord for sale!" - listen sweetheart, I don't have $13K to buy a mother fucking car.
I can't afford a payment, but I can afford the Big Mac it costs for my dad to do my maintenance. It takes two and a half weeks of my income just to afford rent and I have looked her straight in the face and said, "I can't have a nice car because you people simply don't pay me enough."
And before everyone claims that I'd save money with a payment as opposed to doing constant repairs, I have a dad and brother who do all my work on my cars for a Big Mac and a case of beer.
Buying gifts for every occasion. Birthdays, holidays, weddings, baby showers, wedding showers, engagements, graduations. With all of the people in my life, I honestly don't have the money to get gifts for every little milestone or special occasion. I love my family and friends, but it always makes me feel like crap when I can't afford a gift for them when everyone else seems to be able to. Edit: A word.
yes, I hate Christmas time. I would prefer no one get me anything, because I most likely can't afford to get them anything.
I am from a family of 6 (3 siblings and my parents). Several years ago we started doing Secret Santa with each other because it sucked getting 5 okay presents (because everyone worked but only had so much disposable income) when you really wanted something that you wouldn't have spent the money on yourself for in the first place. It has been about 5 years and it has been the absolute best decision we could have made. Now we spend significantly more time and effort (no necessarily money, and we do have a budget limit) on the one person on things they indicated they liked/wanted and don't have to worry about finding the right thing for EVERYONE. Or feel like you are spending equivalently on every one.
I was poor, went to a very nice college on a scholarship. Said college was attended by primarily rich kids from Long Island. The biggest thing most of them failed to understand was that I was poor because my parents were poor, too. Whenever I said I couldn't afford something, they'd just ask "why can't you just ask your parents for the money?" In their universe, parents were never poor and were a constant source of free cash.
Oh god, which college did you go to? This was my experience exactly.
A teacher at my small time college told about when he went to college himself on a scholarship. Also with a bunch of rich kids. He was talking with a friend he'd made about where he lived and the guy said he had three houses around the world. Friend seemed really casual about it but was surprised that my teacher only had one place to live out of college. Later on he was talking to another guy and it was brought up. The new guy said something like "He has three houses? No, that isn't right." Teacher dude responded "Oh so was he just trying no impress me?" "No, he was being modest and didn't want to show off. He actually has like eight houses or something." It's amazing what the difference between two people at the same college can be.
Buying everything without having to look at the price tag
Yes thanks for the reminder! I was laid off and have had to scale back a lot in the past year, including moving into a cheap, dirty house. Sometimes it feels like I'm back at square one and the last 4 years of upward mobility were a total lie. BUT I am not at the point where I'm adding the price of every item at the grocery store on a piece of paper to avoid overdrawing my account. That was miserable and I don't miss it.
My in-laws have been self employed for about 15 years, and are pretty well off financially. They've gotten completely oblivious to how much things actually cost now. Every time my wife brings up our (not so major) financial troubles, they love to talk about how easy it is to raise a family making $11 and hour like they did years ago. They actually seem shocked that cost of living has increased since 1994 which they refer to as "just a few years back".
I mean it's a banana, Michael, how much can it cost? $10?
I read the title of this post and it was the first thing I thought.
My family isn't rich but even my mother understands inflation. My yearly raise offsets the cost of living. It doesn't give me more purchasing power
But 1994 was just a couple years ag- *shit*
The rich guy in charge of mergers and acquisitions at a mid-sized dot com I used to work saw my coworker pull into the parking lot with his 10-year old Ford Mustang. My coworker was not that well off, and was a bit underpaid in his position at the time. Rich dude walks into the building with my coworker and says, "so, you like collecting Mustangs? I got a few myself." That is my coworker's only car. The rich man's default assumption is that other people all have more than what they are showing. They have to be told, "no, this is my only car/suit/watch/vacation." But saying that feels bad so, like my coworker, we just nod and let the rich guys keep talking about their collections.
I once had a boss openly mock a coworker for driving an old car. It's not like he didn't know exactly how little she was paid but he was both an insufferable douche and completely removed from reality and what it takes to make ends meet. If you make $35k/year, live in a large city and have student loans, chances are you can't afford a car payment.
I had a boss tell me that a reliable car "is really something you should invest in. In the real world, you can't be late for work all the time because your car keeps breaking down." This was after the one and only time I was late due to car trouble. He was the owner, and knew he only paid me $8 an hour.
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I went to my best friend's wedding recently. Beforehand, I asked them for the registry information, and they said there wasn't a registry and I didn't need to bring a gift. Since I was coming from out-of-town, they said, my presence was enough! I was stupid and believed this, so I got them a card. Cue two days after the wedding, when my friend messaged me to ask if my gift had possibly fallen out of the envelope and gotten lost. Edit: to make my friends sound less like assholes, it was the bride who told me not to bring anything and the groom who asked me about it afterward. So there was definitely some miscommunication there. Plus I definitely should have gotten them something, so I deserve it a bit. People have pointed out that they probably wanted to make sure the thank-you cards will be accurate, so that's probably the reason he asked me.
if they said in writing that your presence would be enough (like in a text or something) i would have just copy pasted exactly what they said. Fuck that. Maybe they just wanted to make certain it hadnt gotten lost so they could write up their thank you cards? Otherwise that is completely appalling behaviour.
My SO had that after a 1yo's first birthday party. Invite said DO NOT bring a gift, we arrive to find a table set up with a sign on it saying "presents" piled high with baby toys, and later she gets a message asking where our present may have ended up. Fuck that.
Just send her a pciture of the invite
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My friend got married (I was MoH) and had asked us to make centerpieces for the wedding, as we're all very crafty and she wanted unique stuff. But she gave us all $50 and told us to turn that $50 into something cool. She wanted us to wear these long black "infinity" dresses ($20 each) and a corset in a jewel tone. The dresses we're so cheap we could all afford them, but the corsets were not. So she bought 6 of them. She knew her wedding was a big, expensive affair but she and her husband are well-off (both worked their asses off in the military and then he got a really good civilian job) so they absorbed all the "extra" expenses. I didn't even have to pay for hair or makeup (I did though, because she had already spent a fortune on us). Finally, on the day of her wedding, she gave all of us a bridesmaid gift, all of which were lovely, thoughtful, unique items to represent our friendship with her, to make up for "all the time and energy you put into making my day special". She was the absolute opposite of a Bridezilla. Edit to add, she also had a very specific gift request: she wanted everyone to provide 3 index cards with 3 recipes from our family traditions. She knew some of her guests were well off and some of us were in the middle and some were poor. She wanted to make damned sure we all felt equally valued on her wedding day.
Beautiful!
She's a super incredible person. She knows she is in a better financial spot than many of us, but never makes us feel bad about it. When our friend unexpectedly got pregnant, the bride in the story above bought a crib and changing table so the new parents didn't feel stressed about needing those things, and when they offered to pay it back, she said, "Sure! How about you help me paint my loving room?" She's a very generous and loving woman, and I am lucky to have her in my life.
>Sure! How about you help me paint my loving room? Her, ah... She has a room for that? Damn. Well, good for her. I wouldn't paint it though.
Hahahaha! I'm leaving that typo. It's great.
My husband and I paid for everything for the people who stood up in our wedding. We didn't think it was fair of us to ask them to stand up in our wedding and be expected to pay for their dresses/suits/hair/makeup/what-have-you.
Fuck bridal parties. I once paid over $200 for a bridesmaids dress that legit looked like it came from H&M.
Paraphrasing Bill Gates: the problem with success is that it fools you into thinking you're doing everything right.
"Success is a menace. It fools smart people into thinking that they can't lose." It's a line from the movie "Pirates of Silicon Valley"
It's not just that, success also makes the cost of failure lower. If you have $100 million and lose $20 million on a risky investment, you will still be fine. If you are barely making ends meet, taking risks can have catastrophic consequences. Success and wealth tend to generate more success and wealth because they allow people to take larger risks that can have big payoffs if they work out- something a lot of other people cant afford.
One of the best drivers of innovation is a safety net.
That is the problem I have when some wealthy person says "the best advice I have is follow your dreams." It is just like a lottery winner saying just play the lottery.
"There are two rules to success: 1. Never tell everyone everything you know" - Roger H.Lincoln
I remember reading about a study that had people play monopoly. Some players where secretly given more money than others. The people with more money out performed other players, obviously. When the players with extra money were asked how they did so well, they would claim that their skill and strategy was what allowed them to win. Edit: Apparently the players with extra money knew they had more money, but still thought their win was based on skill and strategy.
It's worse than that: the players knew that one person had unfairly been given more money. The advantaged players *still* thought it was superior skill that won them the game.
Skill...monopoly...who are these people
It can be very frustrating when people assume hard work and dedication guarantee success. They think that they worked hard to get what they have therefore anyone who works hard can get the same. Neglecting the fact that predisposition to success and just some plain luck always plays a role.a
"Just buy one."
When I was in college, I thought I lost my phone. I was scrambling around everywhere looking for it, and I told one of my more well-to-do campus acquaintances that I had misplaced it, and he responded by shrugging and saying "So? Just buy a new one then." It always amazes me how some people treat a $500 phone as a disposable product, like a toothbrush or a mop.
You treat mops as disposable?
Swiffers bro
mr. moneybags here replacing his swiffer.
Ugh. I'm 17 and taking my driving test soon - I keep telling people I'm not going to buy a car because I can't afford it, so many have replied, "Why don't you just ask your parents to buy you one?" Um, because they'd laugh in my face lmao
Currently in the process of trying to buy a car after over a year with my license. I have had to save up money for it for a long time. This is not because my parents simply refuse to buy me one but because it is literally financially impossible for them too and I don't think many people I know understand this.
The worst thing is, in some places you cant get a job without a car, so if your parents cant buy one you are basically just fucked.
I ran into this problem a lot when I first started job hunting. I lost out on several opportunities because I couldn't get to work immediately after school
I can't drive due to blindness migraines triggered by flashing lights, so trying to get a job was the worst thing. Like, I have seven years of experience in the field, I'm perfectly qualified, but they always are like, "oh and we'll be using you as a free delivery/pickup service for the office" which first of all, fuck you, no, and second of all can't be done because I CAME HERE TO BE YOUR ADMIN, NOT YOUR COFFEE HOOKUP, I CAN'T DRIVE.
Even as someone who's fairly well-to-do that attitude just strikes me as insane. My car is the best gift that I have gotten in my life and I am extremely thankful for it. It's not some willy-nilly thing that people can just buy any day of the week. I have no idea how those people can be so obtuse about something that's at least a few thousand dollars, well over 10k if it's new...
One of my buddies is like this. After hs I went straight to a university and I'm very grateful that my folks were able to pay for my living expenses (got a fat scholarship so tuition wasn't as much of an issue). My friend dicked around at several different schools where his parents paid for everything. He's always lost or broken brand new smart phones and his folks always just bitch at him for 5 seconds and then buy him a new one. I used the iPhone 4 that my dad bought me when I graduated high school for over 3 years before it finally broke, at which point I paid for a used 4s for $200 on craigslist and got it unlocked so it would work on my network before *it* finally stopped charging. I've driven the same car built in 04 for over 6 years now and it's practically falling apart at this point. After college my buddy was like "Why don't you just buy a new one?". Incidentally, he recently got his car stolen because he left it unlocked and unattended with the keys in the ignition and lo and behold, his parents bought him a new one. It's hard not to get a little irritated with how oblivious he is to the fact that not everyone's families can just dole out money every time you have a big expense, especially because his are almost always the result of being irresponsible
My boss expected everyone to be prepared to telecommute with no support from the organization. He doesn't realize, we have some customer service team members who don't have a computer or internet at home. I realize, having a computer and internet is not restricted to the wealthy, but it does show you what most of us take for granted.
The company in that scenario should absolutely provide the equipment if not a stipend for internet.
Nonsense. Let's just let them open up a VPN tunnel right into the company's intranet from the virus-laden desktop they got from Best Buy in 2003, that still runs Windows XP. More cost-effective than supplying equipment or support. Nothing could possibly go wrong!
Christ, I'm not even that wealthy or priveliged (other than living in a first world country), and I'd probably make that assumption as well...
Going out. I have well off friends who think nothing of dropping $100+ on a night out and are surprised when I say I can't go out with them. Or even $50+.
I had a friend accidentally leave his wallet at a work site for the weekend. He asked to borrow cash from me to get by until Monday. It was a long time ago, but I loaned him either $300 or $500. It was part of my rent money. He realized that, and paid me back sooner than expected. I was surprised he would expect to spend that much on a normal weekend.
Good friend if he paid you back.
One thing that I've noticed is that everyone expects you to have that classic college experience. I'm going into my 3rd year of college and school is more of a job for me. I'm not in any clubs, I go to school 2-3 times a week, and I commute over an hour. But my few friends who live on or close to campus are appalled that I'm not getting that "college experience." I wanted it, don't get me wrong. But it's just not in the cards for me.
Oh hey, we'd love it if you'd come skiing with us! (involves two round trip tickets across country, room at their expensive as fuck chalet hotel thing, rentals and food) uh, no actually we can't sorry, two jobs no life
Or destination weddings. Come spend $1500 to see us get married in the Bahamas! Uh, no, that will pay my bills for an entire month.
People usually do that to keep the wedding small then bang out the honeymoon on the same trip. Saves them money and can give whoever has he time or money to come for a large group vacation.
The concept of what is and isn't a "large" amount of money. My parents are really well off and while my husband and I aren't exactly dirt poor, spending $50 on a whim for us is huge, while for my mom that's just the cost of breakfast on a Tuesday. She'll send me links to "cute dresses I should have that aren't expensive!" And it's like a $80 dress. I think a lot of this has to do with a disconnect in realizing ratio of expense to income. Me spending $50 is the equivalent of her spending $400 in terms of salary equivalency. And that disconnect doesn't let her (or my dad) understand that basic unforeseen cost can be really stressful, even if we aren't what they'd consider broke.
Yes, I have a friend who stole 3k on his dads card to buy shit online, clothes mainly. When his dad confronted him angrily he just said "Oooh its only 3k." BITCH THATS STILL ALOT OF MONEY
Wtf. Who steals money like that?? I wouldn't even steal 5 bucks from my parents.
No kidding. I can't imagine stealing from my parents.
That is more money than I have ever had in savings. The ideas of this both enrages and appalls me. I mean, stealing from your parents? Stealing three THOUSAND dollars? And not thinking it's a big deal?
Don't talk to them in terms of dollar amount. Refer to prices as a percentage of your budget or income. That dress isn't $80, it's 160% of our household discretionary budget. That might put things in perspective if it doesn't annoy the hell out of them.
Or hours worked "That dress is six hours of work." I have to break it down for my little sister that way.
I'm in the same boat. When I was younger, I remember going places with my wealthier friends and their parents would think nothing of taking us out and dropping $100 on dinner for four. One of my friend's moms took me to get my hair and nails done for homecoming, and didn't understand why I had never had it done before, nor why my jaw dropped when I saw that she'd spent over $100 on both me and my friend. Even for me right now, at twenty-four, I won't really spend any money "on a whim" unless it's $10 or under. I get most of my clothes at thrift shops or on clearance at Wal-Mart, and that's pretty okay with me. I can't fathom spending $80 on a dress unless it's for a wedding or something!
This may not be exactly what you are asking for but I was the DJ at a country club pool party and had to turn off the music at 10pm due to the city having a noise ordinance. The police come at around 9:45 to make sure the sound is off on time. At about 9:55 I play the last song of the party and this lady comes up to me demanding I keep playing past 10. I go on to tell her that the club and I will get a fine if I play late. She looked at me like I was crazy and said "oh it's fine, I will pay for your ticket." I just told her no. Some people think laws don't apply to them because they can afford to pay their fines. The ticket would habe been more then I made during that show.
I've heard something similar about speeding tickets – basically, that rich people treat tickets as just another expense of their speeding hobby.
To go out to eat/the the bar whenever they ask you to. Most people can't afford to eat out every day or even every week
I have a friend like this, he will ask me to go out and then get pissed if i dont have the cash, he works one day a week, but has had a lot of money handed to him from inheritance and what not, he just cant understand why people have to work so much. And he says "i work one day a week and can afford to do all this stuff, so everyone else should be fine. Everytime he gets low on funds and i start to think maybe now he will learn what the rest of us go through someone in his family passes away and he gets a bunch of money.seriously in the 10 years i have known him he has inherited over 500k.
Real life is going to catch up to him at one point or another. Can’t be reliant on family members passing away and leaving you inheritances forever. In fact I almost feel bad for him because as soon as he runs out of that money he won’t know what to do with himself.
Well, unless he uses the money to *make sure* people keep passing away...
And he simultanously runs out of relatives..
I was a kid from a poor family who went to a high school of fairly well-off people. Some things I'll always remember: - People assumed the only reason I hadn't ever traveled out of state was because my family was uncultured. - They assumed I didn't go out to eat with them and would go get $2 of fast food instead because I had no taste. - Everybody believed the reason I did no extracurriculars at all was because I was antisocial or lazy, not because they all cost money. - People thought I rode the bus and never got a license because I was a weirdo shut-in or something, not because my family didn't have a functional vehicle. - A girl who gave me her phone number thought the reason I never called was because I didn't like her, when the reality was our home phone had been shut off for six months due to past due bills. Really, just the idea of what constitutes basic life experiences differs so much between people who are even middle class and people who are poor.
I am a mother who has put a lot of my resources into my children's education. I have made a lot of sacrifices so that my kids can attend better schools than the ones around our house. The situations you describe happen to our family. We recently had my husband's hours cut at work, and the same week I lost 2/3 of my jobs. My oldest son is entering HS, and the things you just described gave me horrible anxiety! Do you think it would have been better for you to be with peers of your economic station? If you had gone to a less affluent HS, would you have been able to have a better experience?
I actually think it was one of the luckiest possible outcomes for me even if it sucked from a social life standpoint. I was exposed to so much more, had much higher quality teachers, and had a lot of opportunities I would not have otherwise had (I was able to take 8 AP classes by going to that school and knocked out a lot of college early, which ultimately saved tons of money in eventual tuition costs). There were also some very nice kids I did meet there, ones who didn't care or know about financial differences and gave me the opportunity to enrich myself in other ways (like multiple friends who let me come to their houses and play guitar in their basements, which is literally how I learned how to play) that I'm very grateful for. Just one person's opinion, but I think you are absolutely doing the right thing.
Thanks for the reply! It's nice to hear that your experience was a net positive. There have been studies to come out in the last few years, whose outcomes made me question if I am doing the right thing. So I appreciate hearing your experience.
I was in the same situation as a teen. Enrolled in a magnet for highschool and the students were very well off. I honestly think my drive and thirst for success came from being exposed to that type of environment. I guarantee you, your kid will thank you in the long run.
That you can "just save up" for things you want. My family has never been super poor, but we are far from rich, and I was discussing once with a friend (who came from a very wealthy family) how my mother was upset because she was the only one in the office for the week because everyone was on vacations in Central America and she wished that she could afford to go on a vacation with her husband, too. My friend was unperturbed by my mother's feelings about this and simply said, "Well, if she wants to go, she should just learn how to budget and save up." When you don't have a lot of money, there's really not that much to "save up," and your savings are often emptied by routine large expenses that come with life - if you need a new car part, get a parking ticket, you need new shoes for work, etc. Poor people know how to budget and save money, but that doesn't mean that everything is within reach.
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How tenuous it all is. One car accident that renders me or my husband unable to work, and it all falls apart. We need both incomes to keep our house, cars, insurance - all of it. If we lose one income, the rest would all disappear, too. Yes, we could downsize and get by, but the point is that one accident, or health crisis could really screw us over. If you don't have family money to prop you up, those things are life-altering.
What you're describing is a well-documented and studied concept called the [One Bad Break Test] (https://thebillfold.com/the-one-bad-break-test-706ee317973d) and the U.S. is beginning to fail it badly.
Dad had a stroke a few years ago. We had to sell our childhood home, cut back dramatically, and barely get by even years later. Shit's tough.
Raising children is a massive financial strain. Childcare alone accounts for an inane portion of some peoples paycheck, and can't just leave one member of the family at home. That even with financial assistance and grants there are not enough scholarships for everyone to go to college. Got all B-'s in high school? No 3.0? Well fuck. Edit: Well, unexpected. I was just saying rich people don't seem to understand what an insane expense kids are for the lower classes. They think poor people will just get social security, Medicaid, and good stamps and they'll be fine.
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A Redditor posted about a friend who came from a very well-off family. In a store one day, the Redditor looked at an item and lamented that they didn't have enough cash to buy it. The rich friend was confused, and asked "Why don't you put it on your credit card?" The redditor said they STILL wouldn't have enough money to pay the card down any time soon, and didn't want to get into debt. The rich friend didn't know what the Hell they were talking about. It turned out that the rich friend had never had to pay her own credit card bills; to her, a credit card was just some wonderful bit of plastic that allowed you to get stuff somehow, consequence-free. It rocked her world when it had to be explained to her that someone (her parents) MUST have paid for everything she had ever 'bought' via credit card. I guess the idea of frivolous spending, or living on any semblance of a budget, or the very basics of how money works had simply NEVER come up in her life. They had never needed to. Oh, for a taste of that life.
/u/RamsesThePigeon > The following exchange is offered verbatim (or as near to it as I can remember): > HER: That suit would look great on you. > ME: (Checking the price) Too bad I don't have $900. > HER: Just use your credit card. > ME: I still wouldn't have $900. > HER: What are you talking about? > ME: I try to pay off my balance in full when I use my credit card. $900 is more than I can afford right now. > HER: (Irritated) That makes zero sense. Nobody pays for credit cards! They give them to you! > ME: Not the card; the balance. The bill. > HER: What "bill?" > ME: ... The credit card bill? The one you have to pay every month? > HER: No, you don't. > ME: Okay, well, I guess you can make minimum payments, but... > HER: (Interrupting) What are you talking about?! You are making zero sense. If you don't like the suit, just say so! > ME: I do like the suit, I just can't afford it. Using my credit card wouldn't magically make it so I wouldn't have to pay. > HER: You don't pay for credit cards. God, what is wrong with you? > ME: Wait. Do you mean that you've never paid your credit card bill? > HER: There's no such thing! Credit cards are so you don't have to pay. > It eventually came to light that the young woman had been given her credit card by her parents, who paid the balance for her whenever they received a bill. This revelation only occurred after I'd been accused of trying to make her feel guilty for buying sweatshop clothing, though I never did figure out where that connection occurred. > TL;DR: Credit cards are not the equivalent of free money. [Comment chain 1](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/3zx829/whats_the_most_simple_thing_youve_ever_had_to/cypt0ae/) [Comment chain 2](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskReddit/comments/6i8wbq/what_is_the_stupidest_thing_youve_ever_had_to/dj4frog/)
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I remember reading a post on /r/relationships about someone who's boyfriend's mom hated them and thought she was purposely avoiding her when she couldn't go on a 10k+ cruise because "it's only 10 thousand how would she not have it?"
If its only 10k she should've payed for her
Yep, I was invited on a cruise with the ex bf's Mom and sisters once and she offered to pay my way. It was only a few hundred dollars but she knew I didn't have much money. She paid for my ticket and gave me $150 spending money.
There's a lot of generational issues. My parents are pretty well off at this point. I talked a little about struggling with finances and my mom always brags about how they lived off my dad's salary and banked her whole paycheck when she was working. That just isn't possible for us. I think after all our expenses including childcare we barely break even. Edit: I kinda misspoke. We tend to make more than our expenses, but more often than not there's some sneaky big expense that makes us cut it close.
"We bought our house for $82,000 on your father's full time, union factory job that his father got him out of high school. Yes, a 1 bedroom condo usually goes for $350k around here, and full time union jobs are basically dead, but there's no reason you can't do this"
My dad to me in college: "Just wait till you get to the REAL world, sis. You'll realize it's a lot harder than college." Despite the fact I paid my way through to become a nurse practitioner. He, on the other hand, got a union job out of high school in the 1970s, made over six figures for decades, still pulls a salary as a contractor, and gets his union pension in his late 50s. Oh, and he also lived with his mother until his 40s and dodged child support.
When I was born my dad had a good government job. This allowed my mom to take FOUR YEARS off work after I was born. When I was four my little brother was born. At this point, my dad was working as an independent consultant which allowed my mom to take another 3 years off work and my parents to buy a house. God bless the 90s, when my mother was able to take 7 years off work and my parents to buy a house on a single income. After taking the years off, my parents started a company and are doing very well for themselves at this point. My mother has never been stuck up about it in the least. My parents have given me everything and work their asses off to be able to provide me and my brother with every opportunity. An obvious disconnect exists though. I work 40 hours a week making well above minimum wage. Once I cover my rent, I'm left with $400 for the entire month. My mother knows the outlook for my generation is bleak, but she can't understand why it gets to me like it does. To her mind, the job market will come around again. To my mind, I can't wait for that to happen and don't feel entirely convinced that it will. Everything has changed since she was my age. I tell her children aren't happening till I'm in my 30s, she wonders how I can be so sure. I tell her I will never own a property, she says she believes in my ability to do amazing things. I'm finally working a job now where I'm making gains on the company ladder and have found an incredible group of people to work with. It's an ethical company that does really amazing work. It's somewhere I'm incredibly proud to be employed, but it isn't what I want to do forever. I don't know what the fuck I want to do forever...
Childcare is fucking expensive!! I had no idea how much it would cost to keep my babies (twins) when I knocked up the woman who's now my fiancée. Nearly all of her paycheck goes towards putting them in a nice ass daycare. Daycare is meant for poor people who have to work, but sometimes we have to skip meals and donate plasma to afford it. It's fucked up. Edit: wow, I'm floored by the amount of judgement that's rolling in.
Yeah, it's seriously like a second mortgage, and we'll be paying for it for a few more years.
If her whole paycheck goes toward paying for daycare, does it actually make sense for her to go to work? I saw an episode of one of those evening news shows, 20/20 or Nightline. They had a family that was at their wits end, both parents working hard, one had a night shift, the other a day shift. They never saw each other and weekends they were exhausted. The show had a financial expert go over their income and expenses, they were literally losing money because they both worked. Between the extra car payment, maintenance and insurance, lunches, higher taxable income, etc...they would be in better shape if one of them quit their job and raised their kids instead of daycare. They were just in shock, they had been busting their ass like this for a couple years and their quality of life was dogshit. Only to find out it wasn't worth it, it was heartbreaking. Not the case for everyone but then again, when does anyone ever tell you that the cost of going to work could make it not worth it in some situations?
I read an article about this topic somewhere. They did some math and figured a family would lose more money in the long run if one parent stayed home. I'm sure this depends on your career but you would lose possible promotions and may have to start at ground zero when you decide to go back to work. It's worth it for most families to work through the daycare years. Benefits may also make it worth it. Benefits are the biggest reason for me to continue working. I am a teacher so the pay sucks, but my family benefits are covered.
The problem is that the parent who stays home loses not just current but future earning potential, not to mention retirement and losing out on any incremental raises. And if you're out of the workforce for more than a year, the chances of you getting a job in your field are very slim. It's a bad long-term risk.
The expectation of the poor person being able to go out for drinks/activities every other night.
A rich family acquaintance just sent me a very nice passport holder monogrammed with me initials along with a card telling me I should travel the world since I just graduated from college. I mean shit, I'd love to but useless I forgot about having tens of thousands of dollars somewhere Ill have to make due just exploring my city.
I would laugh so hard, I can't even afford a passport.
Assuming everyone has social mobility. No, I can't just take the risk of moving away and trying to find another job, if it doesn't work out fast, I'll end up homeless...
Related to this, assuming that someone can afford to put their career/job on hold for a year or two to figure out what their 'passion' is.
"I like being on vacation"
When I posted a response on this site about the plight of Native Americans on reservations, someone pointed out that they could all move to the city, get some roommates, find a job and work their way out of poverty because it is just that easy.
I do not want to be trapped in this cycle. I live in my car and sofa hop at the moment whilst working two jobs. No way am I renting a flat when it will soak up my entire income.
Sometimes the opposite is true. I have a mortgage and student loans, but friends with neither seem like they can just go "Well, fuck it. Let's see what's up with the Peace Corps. Or teaching English in Asia."
"Sure, I'll take a month off work to travel around Europe with you"
UGH, I have a friend like this. She does weekend trips to New York and vacations in Cuba, and she doesn't understand why I can't come along with. She's the sweetest and kindest person, she just doesn't get the idea that leaving school/work for two weeks is straight up not an option for me.
When I tell people that I've never vacationed in a foreign country, some of them look at me like I have 6 heads. They don't understand why a young professional like me has never studied abroad or backpacked across fucking Italy or something like that. Um, I don't know, maybe because my parents lived paycheck to paycheck for the majority of my childhood, and I'm just trying to pay off student loans and save up for my own apartment right now? Maybe that's why?
"Just get a better paying job" it's not that easy. Even with schooling, jobs don't just fall in your lap.
Hahahaha I just finished my BA and I can't land a job to save my life. I thought I would at least qualify for something that pays $15 an hour (min wage is $11) or $30k a year. I've been applying to five jobs a day on average and nothing. A couple have responded telling me they've chosen someone more qualified, but the majority I don't hear from. It's so frustrating. I'm about to go back to my summer job in a restaurant making minimum wage hoping I will make enough to pay the bills :/
The classic "entry-level" job requiring at least 2 years of industry experience or 4 years in a related field. Fuck that. I got lucky and worked in a research lab for 3 1/2 years during my undergrad, but that is **far** from the norm. I look at my friends who graduated with the same degree struggle to get monkey-work jobs because employers have asinine expectations. Shit like that should be illegal.
Getting more schooling or training is not so easy either. "If I've got time for Zumba, you've got time for night school."
Reminds me of the "work your way up" bs. After being hired for an entry level job, I watched as over a year they got rid of everyone in middle management, and stuck to hiring outside to fill in at the top.
Same. Looking for a part-time job as a college student in a 3rd world country is close to impossible.
I'd say the expectation that they should just work hard and become successful. Some people work hard all their lives and for myriad reasons never succeed. Others of us get handed a lot of money and never succeed either; it's just a lot harder to fail and for us "failure" just means never getting wealthier.
my father worked hard his whole life and when he was 53 was injured on the job.. Workers comp fought him on paying for the surgery he needed to be able to not live on pain killers, 5 years he walked around with 4 broken disks grinding with no cartilage in between them. Also short term disability denied his claims because workers comp would not do anything. he could not work, he could barely get out of bed. He lost everything. his house his car his credit. filed bankruptcy, lost the ability to work. Paid into the system for 36 years like you're supposed to and in the end it fucked him over.
And that's the other side of the story as to how 'you make your own luck'. What happened to him was horrible and no amount of pulling himself up by his boot-straps would have done shit for him. I get so sick of people saying there's no such thing as luck - that it's just preparedness and ability. That's crap and your father's living proof of that.
Holy crap that's awful. I hope there's justice for him, one way or another.
My father worked hard his entire life and when he was 48 was injured on the job. An infection opened up as a result on his foot which was aggravated by his constant driving. No one else in the family was working and Mom was taking care of us at home, so he had to continue working to keep the lights on. Eventually the infection took his foot and his leg up to his knee. Lost his job, credit and his happiness. Confined to a wheelchair and always fighting against the insurance company he died at 51. Six months before he died, I crashed the only car we had in a storm on the way home from a job interview. Without a car, we had to use MetroLift to get around town which forced my Dad to come each time. Worked hard his entire life and died poor. It happens.
yea most people who experience medical bankruptcy had insurance.. but there was some fine print or loophole that disqualified their treatment. One accident or illness and you can lose everything you've ever worked for in an instant. That's why we need real health care reform.
i'm still freaked out by the story of the lady working three jobs who froze to death sleeping in her car.
Care to elaborate? Never heard of that one.
http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local/Friends-Woman-Who-Died-Working-3-Jobs-Had-Untold-Story-Maria-Fernandes-280414572.html
She died from carbon monoxide poisoning; she left her car running while she took a nap, and a canister of gasoline she had in the car overturned, spilling gasoline in the driving compartment.
My response to this is asking why they aren't as wealthy as Bill Gates or Mark Cuban. With everything they have going for them, as difficult as it is for them to double or even just increase their own income by 10% It's far more difficult for someone starting from scratch to just claw their way from poverty to get to a point where a traffic ticket doesn't instantly ruin them. Any little hiccup that they would skate over is a catastrophe for someone who is impoverished.
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You can do everything right, make no mistakes, and still lose. That's life
This is the tl;dr of this thread.
This. My grandfather was a farmer who would save ever penny for when times get bad and he never got really rich working hard and saving money. Untill some rich guy said lol ill buy your land and build a funpark on it here you have a couple of millions cya
Well, at least in the end it paid off, albeit not as intended. I hope the outcome was worth it.
It definitaly was. He was a farmer in his heart so he just bought a bigger farm and that farm is still in the family. My father now owns the farm and ill maybe take it over in the future so it provided alot of good things for my family.
That's a great outcome. I hope you keep the farm and thrive. :)
> I'd say the expectation that they should just work hard and become successful. Reminds me of musical chairs where it is suggested that everyone could be seated if that last person just learned to be a little faster.
I like the analogy.
yeah. I've done shit manual labor in the past--fry cook at McD's, digging ditches, loading hay bales. It's harder than my desk job. Try loading several 30' trailers with hay bales in the summer heat in TX. That's hard work,a nd it pays dogshit.
Splitting the dinner tab evenly, even though some people bought more expensive food and drinks
My boyfriend and I went to a dinner with this couple that I can only loosely call friends back in November. We were blindsided because we thought this was originally going to be a dinner for just the two couples plus one other female friend of ours. When we get to the restaurant, we find out the reservation is for 15 people.... My friends husband proceeds to order the equivalent of two bottles of expensive scotch (by the glass) over the course of the night with his equally douchey, loud and rude friends. When the check came, divided over 15 people it came out to $350 for my boyfriend and I. The kicker was that my friend knew I was the only one working in my house because of a serious heart condition my boyfriend has. I still have not forgiven them for that stunt to this day, and have dialed back our interactions severely since that (and other similar) stunts. I'm glad I'm not the only one that gets extremely peeved by this!
That's fucked up man. Expecting other people to cover the cost of your booze is so unacceptable
The idea of savings being easy to get. I've dealt with this from friends and family many times, they all assume we have the option to pit back some savings each month. No, we are paycheck to paycheck and behind on most bills, there is no "savings".
That you'll live like a monk. Yes, it's cheaper to eat porridge every meal and not have TV and just get a £5 phone for calls and texts and just have one bulb to save on electricity and don't bother with any furniture. But my god, would there be any joy at all in life?
This is one of those pain in the ass things. Acting like buying a McDonald's meal that one time is the reason someone got evicted is asinine; anyone that close to the edge was going to have *something* go wrong and fuck them up. But at the same time, we actually kicked a guy out of our budgeting class because he refused to admit that eating at BK for dinner literally 4-5 nights a week (IIRC he and his wife were spending about 15-20 each time) was bad for his budget and part of the reason he was struggling financially (there were other bad decisions too, but that's the one that jumped out at me). After a few sessions of that we asked him not to return because he was wasting every other attendees time. The problem is that a lot people will see *one* thing and act like that's the make or break and it's dumb. or they'll see something like someone driving a nice but older car and be offended...we had a client that drove an old but paid for Lexus--that'd he'd bought way before being laid off. It was a very reliable car, and had been (hell still was) pretty nice, but 9 or 10 years old and not worth much to sale, and you need a car that's reliable in our area since we don't have transportation. But people will see stuff like that and get judgy.
When I was on food stamps, it suddenly became everyone's business exactly what I was buying. To the point that I was literally explaining my then-wife's food allergies to complete strangers to shut them up.
>we had a client that drove an old but paid for Lexus--that'd he'd bought way before being laid off. It was a very reliable car, and had been (hell still was) pretty nice, but 9 or 10 years old When people get pissy at this, I get a bit miffed. It's none of your goddamn business what I drive; poverty doesn't mean I'm living in a mud hut and wearing flea bitten rags.
Also, people can't just easily adjust their lifestyle to their means. When people with a certain wealth lose or reduce their spending ability, they don't cope right away.
> would there be and joy at all in life? I think this is a big one. Most of the things that the poor are vilified for by the rich are either new necessities (like a smartphone, since that is many people's only internet connection) or joys (treating the family to a nice dinner out, taking a vacation for the first time in years). These attacks never come from a place of knowledge, the attackers never know the truth of the situation but still insist on judging. By doing this they don't realize that they are basically expecting the poor to live without any of the joys and privileges they themselves have in life. But this fits in nicely with the basic premise that the poor are poor because of their own actions and thus don't deserve help or compassion.
God I wish more people understood this on reddit. You always see people saying "Well, if you can't afford this, you definitely can't do this!" Man, if I don't go and DO something, which 90% of the time requires some amount of money, even if it's just gas money, I will go fucking crazy. I'd like to see them try living without ANY money spent non-bills/groceries/rent. And those groceries better consist of of lentils and beans.
"I did it so you should be able to do it too." I'm not arguing that opportunity isn't out there for everybody but opportunity sometimes is just having the right idea **at the right time** and being able to meet the right people - That is not to say that successful people don't deserve their success or didn't earn it but 2 people can have the exact same idea and the exact same execution and skillset and one will likely fair outperform the other if they're in the right enviroment.
Like [this article](https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.businessinsider.com/how-ebony-horton-paid-off-220000-worth-of-student-loans-in-3-years-2017-3) ? *"To anyone who feels overwhelmed by the prospect of taking on student loans - or paying back any debt they've incurred - Horton has a simple message: 'I just want them to feel empowered that they can pay if off. If I can do it, anybody can.'"*
I started laughing when I heard "working for her mother's non-profit earning a similar wage". The condo purchases got them to 10k a month LOL
Man, if purge day was a real thing, I'd track that woman down and slap her good. "All you need is a free place to live and a place you can sell for pure profit!"
"And have living grandparents that have a big enough house and are willingly to have you and your husband live with them. For free."
that article makes me want to be violent.
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*coughs* American problems *coughs*
*coughs blood* yep, american problems *coughs blood*
Being well-travelled. I was guilty of considering people who have never been abroad as being insular and even dull. I failed to appreciate how I could simply afford to do it and that it is a luxury not available to everyone.
Many people can't find the time to travel even if they can afford it.
"All you need to do to be wealthy is to get a job and work hard." "I work two full time jobs and barely make ends meet." "Then go get a better job." "No one else is hiring." "Then you should go to school and get a good diploma/degree." "I already have one, and need to work both jobs to pay off the loans. I also can't afford to go back to school." "Then just keep working harder and eventually you'll just POOF out of poverty." "....?"
> "All you need to do to be wealthy is to get a job and work hard." Highly unlikely. To grow wealthy you most likely have to create jobs.
New Cars. People have no respect. I drive a 20 year old truck (it still looks good) and everyone always makes a semi insulting comment about how old it is. Not all of us want another loan on top of our already crippling student debt.
"You should totally travel more! Traveling is great for the soul! You learn so much about your life and yourself!" Sure. I'd love to spend summer breaks from Uni experiencing Italy and skiing in France and tanning in Bali. But, I have to work a incredibly low paid retail job to earn a bit of spending money, write freelance to build a CV and make use of the teeny tiny town my parents live in as my source of relaxation and fun. I'd rather be traveling, trust me. That's the plan for after my postgrad degree but for now, please excuse my non-well-traveled sneer at your two week stint in London. Yes I'm bitter.
To eat "organic" food
Free time. The more money you have, the more you can hire people to do things for you and/or pull away from what you're doing a little bit. When you're struggling, you do it all to conserve money, and even then, you don't have enough.
I used to go out for dinner occasionally with an exceedingly wealthy friend. But when the bill came, he'd always expect me to pick up the tab - as if it were a *privilege*, as a person of relatively humble means, to be in the company of such a successful, affluent person.
Uh fuck that guy
I was going to come in and post the exact opposite of this. I can't say I'm rich, but I do good considering where I live. If I had made the plan to have dinner, I always pick the bill for it. I always thought my friends might think I'm a prick for doing that
If you invite me to dinner and I accept, I'd expect we pay for our own meals. No one forced me to come. Business lunches/dinners being an exception.
I had a really embarassing situation as a kid where I was invited to Taco Bell by a friend's mom, and after I ordered, she expected me to pay. I don't view it as a rich/poor thing, I just think it's weird to assume a 7-year old carries around money. It scarred me, and my policy now is that if I invite you, I expect to cover the cost. If you want to chip in or cover your costs, I'll happily accept, but I always assume the other person can't afford it.
Why did this happen more than once?
I feel like sometimes, in especially impoverished areas it is unrealistic to expect that people are healthy enough mentally to even think about getting to where they're at. Or even liking themselves enough to WANT to succeed in life. Like, imagine growing up on an indian reservation and seeing all the abuse that happens. It's a sick cycle, and I can say from experience, that it's extremely hard to crawl out from that kind of ugly. You don't even ever really realize it's bad until AFTER you get out, and try to make something of yourself. I feel like people don't realize the lack of support you get, from family, friends, or the outside because everyone is too focused on their own survival to help.
I was 21 and working for a married pair of doctors for less than $10 an hour. When I got pregnant, she suggested I hire a nanny so the baby would be cared for all day and, when I get home from work, the house would be cleaned and dinner ready. Seriously not sure if she had any clue what she was paying me.
*"You can go to the travel agents and book cheap flights for a week or two away"* True, but I'd also need insurance, passport, luggage, clothes, money for food etc etc.
Health insurance for a 21 yr old is only 12 a month.
People actually believe that? The cheapest I ever got it was 125 a month. That was when i was 19. By the time I was 21 it was 140.
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Mobility. "Can you come over in half an hour?" No, I most likely can't, because I have to rely on public transportation.
That anything that comes easy for them comes as easily for everybody else. That everybody is as confident and comfortable with asserting themselves as they are. That everybody has the energy to pursue their goals with the same tenacity as those who have access to AC in the summer, shoes that don't hurt your feet, actual nutritious food, a doctor only a phone call away and a family to share the burdens with. When you have that kind of support in your life, even tough decisions and demanding situations can be quite doable. In contrast, a close relative of mine just lost her house in a fire, her husband died mysteriously in an elderly care, she recently had hip surgery and lives on a very small pension. She gets up every morning and keeps her life more or less in order. That, in my humble opinion, is proof of an inner strength several orders of magnitude above the successful people half her age who boast about their discipline on Instagram whenever they've lost ten pounds dieting. (Not that there's anything wrong with dieting, but, perspective, folks!)
I need to move this next month just to finish one final course for school, and even that's already stressful. My dad said, 'theirs these single apartments I was looking at for $700 a month, and there's this place and that place to get a job!' When I look at moving, I look at that 700 and know I already had trouble affording $450 a month in the past. I look at those potential jobs and know it's fucking ridiculous to put your eggs into the same basket and assume you *can* live in this expensive apartment *because* you can get this job you don't even qualify for in a town you don't even *live* yet. I don't understand the delusion that he still has that you can just *get* a job by talking to the right people. He literally wants me to drive several hours away to speak to these people and get a job when I already know they're goona tell you the same thing they tell everyone. Either drop off a resume or apply online. It's frustrating dealing with that disconnect to how difficult finding work is when they've been in a stable career for 30 years and you need to scrounge just to make anything barely above minimum wage even *with* a degree. It's more frustrating that they don't acknowledge they don't actually understand that they're disconnected from those realities and insist their ideas are the correct solutions when in practice such things have already failed in the past.
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"Get a job? ***Get a job?*** Why don't I just put on my *job-helmet* and squeeze down into a *job*-cannon and fire off into ✨***job-land***✨ where ***jobs grow on jobbies?!***"
On a simple note, my neighbor constantly asks questions about my purchases like "why did you buy that? For a few thousand more, you could have . . ." or "hey, I was just online at (any store you want to insert here) and they have this (insert again) that would work perfect for you, you should grab it". He buys what ever he wants and then so should everyone else.
My boyfriend is from a very well-off family and when we were younger he did stuff like this all the time. "But for $100 more, this one is so much better and will last longer!" You're right, but I don't HAVE 100 extra bucks right now. ...He meant well but just didn't get it.
I guess this is less about being wealthy, but the generational difference of the cost of tuition. I hate hearing the classic "all these college students with all of these loans. They should just work and pay for their college out of their pocket like I did and not load up so much debt." Right. Because tuition today versus thrity years ago isn't over triple what it was back then. One year of tuition at most public colleges runs close to what I make in a year at my current job.
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They forget almost everything is a tradeoff between time and money. Sure, you can save money by fixing your car yourself. But you have to spend a lot of your time to make up the difference. Same thing with cooking for yourself or most other things richer people point at and say, "You could save money by..." Since time is a limited resource in any life, poor people are frequently forced into the position of choosing a more expensive option, whether they want to or not.
That they "pull themselves from their bootstraps". Very often rich people don't realize how much luck, privilege and other unseen factors have played in their success. It's all hard work. They don't realize what it is like to be trapped in poverty.
wasn't this supposed to be some sort of joke phrase, like to show how asking the poor/working class to do the impossible is a dumb way to try and inspire them?
Exactly. The phrase originated as a criticism of this idea, implying it's impossible. Somehow people missed the implication and started saying it seriously.
I love how my boss will think I have more money than I have. I have not been able to afford decent new cars and it's one of the many pit falls of being poor; you need decent reliable transportation, but you can't afford a payment of any kind. Because of this, and living in a state without a lemon law and shady mechanics, buying a used car is always a gamble and one I've always lost. She bitches about my cars constantly because they tend to be unreliable, needing a lot of maintenance, or I don't have them for long. Cars for me, at this point in my life are like a Bic lighter - they're fucking disposable. But she's always telling me about how there's a nice "2010 accord for sale!" - listen sweetheart, I don't have $13K to buy a mother fucking car. I can't afford a payment, but I can afford the Big Mac it costs for my dad to do my maintenance. It takes two and a half weeks of my income just to afford rent and I have looked her straight in the face and said, "I can't have a nice car because you people simply don't pay me enough." And before everyone claims that I'd save money with a payment as opposed to doing constant repairs, I have a dad and brother who do all my work on my cars for a Big Mac and a case of beer.