Yea, funny how they preach for acceptance, but the moment you flip the script and say something along the lines of "You look as beautiful as Lizzo" they immediately get offended, no attempt to mask the hypocrisy.
She also looked like an obvious lesbian and if she was unaware of it than she is completely fucking oblivious to gay fashion trends that have been around for almost 40s years now.
“Upon returning her to the address, comments were made which resulted in the girl being arrested on suspicion of a homophobic public order offence. The nature of the comments made was fully captured on body-worn video.”-
homophobic public order offence - public? In her own home?
That was a comment taken from the statement made by the police chief to give us some context of the incident.
I mean words and language does influence people and so does "othering" as a result of language so...I mean in the case of the little girl it's not bad but in your case bringing up world war then I'm telling you that with your extreme example there language that played a significant role throughout history. Why bring up an extreme example to try and disprove language hurts people when in your example that isn't the case lmao.
Most of those cases tend to be immediately released but it's not as big of a thing than people make it out to be honestly other than a few cases (that often don't lead to prison) but it's still bad ig.
I mean I'm sure the US has freedom of speech but considering how large the population is there then there's plenty of exceptions that could happen too.
Well we can pull a double whammy and say the Murica is the only place where you can speak English freely.
Instead of that being a PP measuring contest, UK should just get their shit together.
Almost every one I know from EU, are fully against current vaguely worded hate speech laws. Those who support these laws are either uneducated, ignorant, naive, or just stupid. People should ask themselves, "what if political situation would be opposite", because these laws could be used against them or any group. People in power can decide who to charge or not.
Article 19 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights says
“Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers”
This includes all forms of expression including speech
Breaking news: the uk is a shithole
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Yep, or unannoyed or unobstructed.
That's why anytime there's any kind of offending, obstructing or distrupting going on, the police should come and beat the shit out of everyone doing it. - Asmongold
we have gone way too long without a war. it's bad and a lot of people suffer and die but it is both unavoidable and has at least this positive side-effect. to wake up delusional people about how reality really works.
Most of Europe doesn’t have freedom of speech. We have a modified version of it where most things are ok but some things aren’t.
For example, preaching nazism is against the law in like more than half of european countries or smth. Same thing with holocaust denial. Hate speech is illegal in many european countries (tho definitions and punishment vary).
Guess what’s legal in USA? Preaching nazism, holocaust denial, hate speech and so on. If you want to create a nazi political party and run for office in the USA then you’re free to do so.
Try that in Europe and you’ll most likely land in jail.
I live in Quebec and for as long as I remember whenever someone insulted a cop, the common saying is "imagine if he did it in the USA, dude would be dead alreday...".
I am so glad that we dont have that „absolute freedom of speech“ thing in austria/germany. Hate, anti human, and dangerous ideas/ideologies are supposed to be forbidden. Sadly american idiocracy is still coming to us over twitter/insta etc.
There’s a difference in the USA between harassment and just talking about a subject. One is illegal and one isn’t. As it should be. Gtfo with accepting the government to tell you what’s okay to read and what’s not. Fight for your rights. You didn’t lose the war to have a new government come in and suppress ya’ll anyway right? Stand up for yourselves.
I mean if you do any of that in Canada you are most likely to land yourself with charges and/or in jail as well. Hell if you even do stuff like that in Canada, you're lucky if you don't get your ass beat. Not too long ago we had someone in Toronto doing blackface, and dude got a police escort because he was being mobbed by the public.
Why would you want to live in a place where people can be openly racist and oppressive to each other?...
Precisely because of their ability to say so. Let me break it down, since that might not be immediately clear. Whenever the government has the power to restrict speech, even if the law was passed by genuine saints come down from heaven to write the laws, it gives them two very important things. Firstly, it gives them a tool they can utilize by stretching the idea of 'hateful' 'racist' or 'oppressive' language to specifically target individuals and violate their civil liberties. Secondly, it sets a precedent--not strictly in the legal sense, but in the sense of 'Well, we can pass these laws. Why can't we pass more?'
The moment you get someone in office with the power to restrict speech, and those who will vote to expand an already existing law to cover more 'bases'--almost certainly under the grounds of protecting the people who would be 'harmed' by said speech--well, that's how you eventually end up with something akin to the Ministry of Truth. Punished for expressing your speech via protesting, or simply disagreeing with the government's decisions in a public sphere or domain. Being targeted for disagreeing with government decisions or disliking an elected representative. It's a foot in the door for authoritarianism, which becomes totalitarianism. Do I like that there are people slinging racial slurs, that they're being cruel and nasty? No, I don't. But I genuinely think that giving that toehold to authoritarian policies will ultimately be far worse for far more people than some hurt feelings or emotional distress.
I hope that clears up the viewpoint, some!
A comment on the dangers of authoritarianism from a country where 90% of legislation does not serve the interests of the population, lol. But hey, at least we can wave nazi flags without getting arrested. Freeehduuuumb
Did something about what I had typed somehow give you the impression that I'm a *fan* of the status quo? I'm in full agreement that the vast majority of legislation either does not serve, or actively infringes upon the rights of the population. Being glib about a deeply unpleasant and extremely unpleasant and unpopular minority using their civil rights to be ghoulish and grotesque doesn't somehow diminish the inherent value of said rights. For that matter, neither does the behavior of the racist morons waving those flags.
If you can't see why people having the right to freedom of speech, especially that which criticizes the government as you *just* engaged in is a *good* thing, then I think we probably have fundamental disagreements on quite a bit more.
There is a very good reason why some aspects of freedom of speech are regulated. And it has nothing to do with big gov controlling minds, and everything to do with ensuring a level playing field and having a rational basis for discussion in society. Letting extremist, actively *anti*-democratic propaganda run rampant in the name of a basic principle without applying context is one of the reasons why we are currently in the "post-facts" era, and unhinged "alternative facts" are treated as equal to rational viewpoints.
Many European countries learned this the hard way after fascism. The US still hasn't. And yes, I am American.
There are good reasons why some aspects are regulated. Libel and slander, as an example, aren't protected speech. Misinformation is also a major issue, and I can agree with that. What I disagree with is the solution being to give the government more tools to control and moderate speech, as I have absolutely \*zero\* faith in the US government not to misuse and abuse such tools, in much the same way US Police often stretch and misuse Qualified Immunity to get away with horrific and egregious acts. I do not have any faith in our power structures, or \*any\* government power structures--or corporate, for that matter--to hold such power over people's ability to communicate. Misinformation needs to be countered and counteracted, yes, but I genuinely believe that if it doesn't come from a grassroots movement that expands aggressively, then the tools initially intended to countermand this misinformation will be turned against anyone whom the holders dislike.
I also don't think Europe is a shining example of governmental perfection. Italy is quite literally \*famous\* for its amount of criminal corruption in its government body. Scotland recently passed a hate speech law that is being so terribly abused that several police departments are threatening to shut down over it, because they simply cannot handle it--and somehow, I don't think there are so many Nazis and racists in Scotland to account for the vast majority of such. Britain has an issue with massive over-surveilance, and despite all these tools, has infamously refused to pursue various criminal rings and organizations with it. I don't think that anyone's properly developed a workable solution without what I personally view as unacceptable long-term consequences. I'm not claiming to have the answers to what is an extremely tricky situation, but I am firmly of the belief that any answer \*must\* allow for the core principles of individual liberty and the ability to publicly express dissent to be unimpeded.
This is a tricky and difficult situation, to be certain, but I \*am\* glad that we can at least be civil about our disagreement, here.
>Why would you want to live in a place where people can be openly racist and oppressive to each other?...
Because that's better than living in an authoritarian hell-hole? I'd rather ppl can say mean things than have ppl going to jail for saying mean things. It's insane.
A German guy got his home searched because he called the mayor a dick on Twitter. After he already confessed to the "crime". Give a round of applause to Andy Scheuer everybody!
I've never been persecuted for the things I've said in the UK. I'm free to speak out against any institution here without persecution. What I am not free to do is perpetuate hatred or make threats to individuals, and I am perfectly content with that state of affairs.
That’s Scotland they can now arrest anyone for a hate crime for using bad language it’s not England and wales they’re still sane that might change tho when labour take over then the uk is done for
The thing is he’s a Muslim and no friend to the lgbtq whom these rules mostly protect …if you refuse to call someone a fox/foxet you can be charged with misgendering someone and charged with a hate crime it’s ridiculous
He's a joke and a WEF puppet, but so are the rest of the premiers and Sadiq Khan. Remember when Humza said that they should relocate all those palestinian refugees to scotland?
Absolute muppet.
I'll be real with you but realistically US police could arrest internet trolls too, now if the prosecution wins in the court is another matter but Slander(if it meets the criteria) can get you prosecuted in the USA.
UK is fucked tho lmao.
What is that video? Guy with a camera gets thrown to the ground by...? Are those cops?
Why do you think a 10 second video is proof the USA doesn't have free speech?
As far as I can tell, Wikipedia claims currently 38 states passed these types of laws with varying scope, mostly with bi-partisan support.
You can probably guess the one country you're not allowed to boycott in those states.
In America, you'll have freedom of speech as long as you're sucking off the regime or in general are not subversive or threatening to the status quo at all.
The moment you do that, the moment you stop babbling and actually start trying to do something and gain some momentum, they'll fucking eviscerate you.
The only thing that differentiates America from other countries is that the grip and the control that the American regime has on their population, as a global hegemon, is a lot stronger than other countries. That allows them to have all these "court jesters" whose existence, by the way, only further props up the illusion of freedom of speech and therefore the legitimacy of the regime ("look, we have freedom of speech and they don't!").
Anyone who thinks otherwise is a clueless idiot who has never read a book. Asmongold included. His take is delusional. Also it's funny how he's all about freedom of speech and all these other liberties, and how America is the greatest because we have all these things, and then the next minute he goes on a rant about how if anything you do or say obstructs/annoys anyone, well then that should be illegal and the police should come and fuck you up. Hilarious.
Yet Asmon says this and suddenly everyone comes out of the woodworks saying how much of a moron he is for not knowing that they do have it 😂 like, Google exists for a reason
My user name is where I am, Wales ie bit to the left of England. We never had foredoom of speech, what we had the Gov has been locking down for my lifetime.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship\_in\_the\_United\_Kingdom](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_in_the_United_Kingdom)
>there is no general right to free speech in the UK
What we have is a odd mix of law's that lets the gov/police apply selective use if they dont like you, I think there's still a law saying 'you can not say the king is not head of the church in a public place'. That law used to be a hanging offence, something to do with High treason I think [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High\_treason\_in\_the\_United\_Kingdom](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_treason_in_the_United_Kingdom)
Reminds me of friendlyjordies lawsuit where he was told he couldn't use footage from an offical meeting to prove the other side said what he said because it would "infringe on his right to defend himself" (Based on a law from the 1**7**00s) which is funny because he was the defendant and being unable to show said footage to defend himself.
The US doesn't have it either. Plenty of people are punished by the law for saying or writing stuff.
Quite right as well, the idea that there should be no consequences for slander, racism or defamation is absurd.
No he’s not because it’s fact, go stand in front of any cop in the US and start being racist and homophobic and see what happens, see how far your freedom of speech lasts.
Old article, but still relevant. [https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/police-arresting-nine-people-a-day-in-fight-against-web-trolls-b8nkpgp2d](https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/police-arresting-nine-people-a-day-in-fight-against-web-trolls-b8nkpgp2d)
More than 3.300 detained in UK for "trolling on social media" in 2017.
411 in the same year in Russia.
[https://archive.is/uQ1Qj](https://archive.is/uQ1Qj)
I don't think you can say you have any freedom of speech if your country arrests people for social media posts 8 times more than fucking Russia
Are those 'dissappeared in Russia' currently with you in the room right now?
Like we get that you think Russia is what you saw in Hollywood 20 years ago, but times change man. If you count all the people that disappear in CIA black sites around the world, those will be even much higher than 8 times. Also in Russia mostly Russians disappear. The CIA makes no difference between us-americans and foreigners. Russia has lots of catch up to do, to reach US numbers.
The largest pile of horseshit about this is you can bash Christians as much and hard as you want. Say one thing about Muslims though and the gestapo will come knocking.
While I haven't researched the article, I just want to say that freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom to say whatever you want without consequences.
However, I do agree that there should be quite clear distinctions between jokes, harassment, threats and the severity of the misinformation being spread.
I also generally think people on the internet need some serious training in how to behave and act around others. Being a dick to someone physically can have consequences. So should behind a keyboard. Everyone knows 99,9% won't be arrested if you're not being a dick..
Maybe, but consequences should be proportionate to the offense. Additionally where offense cannot be objectively and dispassionately measured it should not be a matter of law.
If there are consequences from the state to what you say then you don't have freedom of speech. Technically a North Korean can call his leader a moron, technically it is possible because he has vocal cords. It's just that he'll end up in prison.
Dude... "Freedom to say whatever you want without consequence" is basically "Freedom of speech" in a nutshell.
I can't believe people really start you make the take you did... wtf... this is how fascist legitimize their stripping of freedom of speech. Because if we differentiate on the topics: "you can say that without consequences but better don't say that, this is misinformation." we are literally living in a society without free speech. it doesn't get less free speech that that.
who defines what misinformation is?
who says what is an actionable offense or what isn't?
what is a threat? you might find that funny, but I remember when people enjoyed writing the most threatening stuff against white people you can image and it was totally okay. but if you change a single word, you get instantly banned and your account purged. so this is clearly far beyond any reasonable definition if 'freedom of speech'. That's why people like you already believe that the opposite of freedom of speech is freedom of speech. we are lost.
The U.K. doesn’t have freedom of speech, we have freedom of expression outlined in the 1998 human rights act.
A detailed summary can be found here:
https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/human-rights/human-rights-act/article-10-freedom-expression#:~:text=your%20own%20opinions-,Article%2010%20protects%20your%20right%20to%20hold%20your%20own%20opinions,television%20or%20radio%20broadcasting
That we know of. I doubt the majority of Russia' arrest records are public, since you know, it's a very authoritarian state. They only publish what they want us to know about.
I doubt they are arresting people that post harmless insults. They are probably after people making death threats and stuff like that.
To classify that as "Internet trolls" seems a little odd, but yeah.
>They are probably after people making death threats and stuff like that.
If you don't know what you're talking about, why are you making assumptions? Clearly it's more than this, otherwise people wouldn't be up in arms about it.
Yeah. I remember one time someone was arrested and people said it was against freedom or speech because it was online threats. However the guy wanted to run over people and threatened to shoot people, then was found in public with a gun. That's not exactly the least suspicious thing
Here is the laws surrounding freedom of speech in the UK
https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/human-rights/human-rights-act/article-10-freedom-expression#:~:text=your own opinions-,Article 10 protects your right to hold your own opinions,television or radio broadcasting
Most EU countries don't have freedom of speech on the level that US does. US is pretty much unique in that regard.
However, I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. We have cases of the government overstepping, but in general it's pretty clear what will get you in legal trouble and what not, so it just leads to people behaving themselves better on the internet.
Any government willing to fuck their population could have always found a way to do it. Your freedoms have always been an illusion. Just be nice and maybe you won’t get hit.
Or become law enforcement and be ahead.
>Can you really say that UK have freedom of speech when stuff like this is happening?
you have freedom of speech just not freedom from consequences unless you use a VPN,a bullshit email/name and don't pay the Elon twitter tax
No they don't mean that kind of freedom of speech.
But you also only have limited freedom of speech in the US either and cannot literally say what you want.
Not only UK, lots of Democratic-ish governments are censoring people, even YouTube has censored channels that are Republican inclined, total bias toward the left, that's the usual socialist way of controlling public opinion in social media, in my country there are people in prison just for demanding food or electricity, as crazy as it may sound. But in the end truth will get out no matter how much they try to make people believe in a fictitious sense of tranquility
I am amazed at such 'innocent' questions about Freedom of Speech. 1. UK does not have a written constitution where any rights are enshrined. 2. Even in countries where rights are enshrined in the constitution, there is NO such thing as absolute Freedom to do anything. All rights and freedoms, even constitutional, are subject to legal limits. Only simplistic people who have never read the actual constitution/law throw out these moronic absolute statements.
Isn't life's "current meta" to always be angry and offended. To make it your goal to be offended daily, post about i,t and hopefully unleashed the dogs of war of the offending parties?
hi, UK person with a law degree here. The UK does not have freedom of speech. It is not in our uncodified constitution.
Even going back to the Magna Carta of 1215, there has never been a statue within England and Wales (Scotland has its own legal system) for the freedom of speech.
For anyone from the outside looking in the UK is in a weird place legally. Cops have been underfunded for a while due to shitty government, so some crimes don't even get investigated (I personally know 2 people who's homes were broken into, one with a high degree of property damage, and these weren't even investigated. Just given a crime reference number for insurance). I feel like these arrests are easy ways of keeping numbers up with a low burden of evidence since it's all online.
good on them, certainly easier, then solving knife crimes. The british voted for this, they are not protesting, so everything is ok. They are happily creating their own police state. Just please same as americans, keep weird shit like this inside your borders please.
Judging by the comments, unjust suppression of people is practiced all over the world. Which actually turns all countries into caste societies (where there are lower castes (they are not protected), a supervisory caste (they punish the lower caste for actions that go beyond what is permitted to their caste (for example, open dissatisfaction with higher castes)), a caste of serving managers (they direct the controlled 2 castes in the necessary direction), as well as the caste of managers. Does anyone have examples where everything is different? A place where every person is equal before any law?
The uk is wack mo matter now much they shit on the US on here. I lived in Europe for 4 years, and out of all the places there, the uk is the last place i would live.
People don't seem to understand that freedom of speech (expression) also comes with quite reasonable consequences in the case of making threats and spreading hatred.
I doubt many of the people here would be defending my right to free speech If I was shrieking hateful abuse through their elderly mothers letterbox at 3am every day.
Yep.
I do feel like there's a lot of mental gymnastics going on from people who like to believe they have more "freedoms" than people from other countries.
The "land of the free" having a higher percentage of it's citizens in prison than almost anywhere else in the world seems to be lost on them.
The US is great by the way, probably in the top 5 places I'd like to live for a variety of reasons but them being "extra free" is not one of them, because it's bullshit.
That annoying pianist guy was saying this to those Chinese people, sorry mate UK is a leftist authoritarian shithole because Brits were too weak to do anything about it
It might be hard to understand for muricans, but "freedom of speech" isn't the end all be all. It's not some kind of gotcha to say "if you do this you attack freedom of speech". That's fine. I'd rather have no freedom of speech than have people spreading hate, and there's plenty of people like me in the world. Probably more than muricans with guns who think they should be allowed to say whatever they want.
Hate is an emotion. Nothing more. The problem is if you do hateful things that physically hurt someone. But all these things are already illegal for a long time from discrimination, violence and slander to repeatedly harassing someone. Getting arrested for having an emotion once is nuts and just a way for the government to criminalize people who are unhappy with the state of things. Im not a hateful person but this vile attempt at controlling the masses makes me hate the government and everyone who supports this. I am sure a lot of people have similar thoughts. Lets see how this will work out for our coexistance.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
Offensive speech isn't spreading hate. Its displaying it.
You ban guns and amount of stabbings increase. You ban knives and people spill acid on each other. You ban that and people drive cars into the crowd.
You want to tackle hate not its symptoms.
Ban guns and gun violence goes down 80%. BUT KNIFE VOILENCE INCREASES BY 10% SO IT WAS POINTLESS.
We should just tackle the cause of all human voilence, the human condition instead. Fixing that is a much more obtainable and realistic goal.
Just posting my opinion. Aren't you a blind worshipper of freedom of speech?
Also, my life is fine. It's certainly better than that of some incel whining about freedom of speech dying cause trolls are not allowed to spread hate.
Didn't they arrest an autistic 12 year old girl for telling a cop she looks like her lesbian aunt lol
Yea, funny how they preach for acceptance, but the moment you flip the script and say something along the lines of "You look as beautiful as Lizzo" they immediately get offended, no attempt to mask the hypocrisy.
Rules for thee but not for mee, now also for mentally challenged adults and not just the elite.
That's just Britisher for you. Natural born hypocrites.
Brit here. No need for the sweeping hate, thanks. None of us are pleased about this, either.
American here. Obligatory USA USA Tea in the Harbor USA comment for you.
Thanks, I'll put it with the others, while simultaneously lamenting that I missed out on the world's biggest, most brackish cup of tea.
It was cold brewed. You didn't miss out.
Another Brit here. Equally unhappy about the state of affairs
The worst thing is that was just the lesbian cop abusing her power she felt offended and wanted to punish the kid.
She also looked like an obvious lesbian and if she was unaware of it than she is completely fucking oblivious to gay fashion trends that have been around for almost 40s years now.
The 12 year old: "Okay, but what did I say that was wrong?"
“Upon returning her to the address, comments were made which resulted in the girl being arrested on suspicion of a homophobic public order offence. The nature of the comments made was fully captured on body-worn video.”- homophobic public order offence - public? In her own home? That was a comment taken from the statement made by the police chief to give us some context of the incident.
Nan (Grandma)
What’s going to happen in the future when they find out, words don’t hurt people weapons and violence hurt people, during the third world war?
I mean words and language does influence people and so does "othering" as a result of language so...I mean in the case of the little girl it's not bad but in your case bringing up world war then I'm telling you that with your extreme example there language that played a significant role throughout history. Why bring up an extreme example to try and disprove language hurts people when in your example that isn't the case lmao.
Most of those cases tend to be immediately released but it's not as big of a thing than people make it out to be honestly other than a few cases (that often don't lead to prison) but it's still bad ig. I mean I'm sure the US has freedom of speech but considering how large the population is there then there's plenty of exceptions that could happen too.
Who's saying UK has freedom of speech? I'm from the UK we definitely don't.
People in the twitch chat
Nazi pug would like to wave a paw at them.
"Yer dugs ah Nazzii" - Some Scottish judge ignoring context
Twitch chat commenting on something they know nothing about? I'm shocked!
Yeah Twitch chat is known primarily for knowing what they're talking about for sure.
i think people confuse US with UK.
It's that joke where people think only America exists and speaks English.
Well we can pull a double whammy and say the Murica is the only place where you can speak English freely. Instead of that being a PP measuring contest, UK should just get their shit together.
This sub is mentally handicapped.
True, but now Russia has arrested fewer people for speech than the UK that a little disturbing.
Europoors love to pretend they have as much freedom as Americans when they clearly don’t
America has so much freedom they spend all day shooting each other
Oh yeah, nothing says freedom like bankrupting yourself when you fall ill
Almost every one I know from EU, are fully against current vaguely worded hate speech laws. Those who support these laws are either uneducated, ignorant, naive, or just stupid. People should ask themselves, "what if political situation would be opposite", because these laws could be used against them or any group. People in power can decide who to charge or not.
Anglo people are simply in love with authoritarianism
True. Murder is against the law and some people still do that against each other. Get rid of it.
In many ways we do.
One of the five basic human rights, as decided by the UN, is freedom of speech.
That basic human right is freedom of expression. Not freedom of speech, not the same.
Article 19 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights says “Everyone has the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions without interference and to seek, receive and impart information and ideas through any media and regardless of frontiers” This includes all forms of expression including speech Breaking news: the uk is a shithole
In my country A Youtuber was arrested because he called a police officer an idiot It made it to national news, the guy has 300k+ subs
People really think they have the right to go through life unoffended
*People really think* *They have the right to go through* *Life unoffended* \- ShmigShmave --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
Yep, or unannoyed or unobstructed. That's why anytime there's any kind of offending, obstructing or distrupting going on, the police should come and beat the shit out of everyone doing it. - Asmongold
we have gone way too long without a war. it's bad and a lot of people suffer and die but it is both unavoidable and has at least this positive side-effect. to wake up delusional people about how reality really works.
Yup what we need is millions of deaths to deter some arrests.
That's what we need, more PTSD dudes ducking when someone drops a glass bottle.
We got another big one coming. Military spending is increasing all over europe.
Said the delusional person with no idea how reality works
Most of Europe doesn’t have freedom of speech. We have a modified version of it where most things are ok but some things aren’t. For example, preaching nazism is against the law in like more than half of european countries or smth. Same thing with holocaust denial. Hate speech is illegal in many european countries (tho definitions and punishment vary). Guess what’s legal in USA? Preaching nazism, holocaust denial, hate speech and so on. If you want to create a nazi political party and run for office in the USA then you’re free to do so. Try that in Europe and you’ll most likely land in jail.
I live in Quebec and for as long as I remember whenever someone insulted a cop, the common saying is "imagine if he did it in the USA, dude would be dead alreday...".
I am so glad that we dont have that „absolute freedom of speech“ thing in austria/germany. Hate, anti human, and dangerous ideas/ideologies are supposed to be forbidden. Sadly american idiocracy is still coming to us over twitter/insta etc.
There’s a difference in the USA between harassment and just talking about a subject. One is illegal and one isn’t. As it should be. Gtfo with accepting the government to tell you what’s okay to read and what’s not. Fight for your rights. You didn’t lose the war to have a new government come in and suppress ya’ll anyway right? Stand up for yourselves.
I mean if you do any of that in Canada you are most likely to land yourself with charges and/or in jail as well. Hell if you even do stuff like that in Canada, you're lucky if you don't get your ass beat. Not too long ago we had someone in Toronto doing blackface, and dude got a police escort because he was being mobbed by the public. Why would you want to live in a place where people can be openly racist and oppressive to each other?...
> doing blackface Trudeau?
Precisely because of their ability to say so. Let me break it down, since that might not be immediately clear. Whenever the government has the power to restrict speech, even if the law was passed by genuine saints come down from heaven to write the laws, it gives them two very important things. Firstly, it gives them a tool they can utilize by stretching the idea of 'hateful' 'racist' or 'oppressive' language to specifically target individuals and violate their civil liberties. Secondly, it sets a precedent--not strictly in the legal sense, but in the sense of 'Well, we can pass these laws. Why can't we pass more?' The moment you get someone in office with the power to restrict speech, and those who will vote to expand an already existing law to cover more 'bases'--almost certainly under the grounds of protecting the people who would be 'harmed' by said speech--well, that's how you eventually end up with something akin to the Ministry of Truth. Punished for expressing your speech via protesting, or simply disagreeing with the government's decisions in a public sphere or domain. Being targeted for disagreeing with government decisions or disliking an elected representative. It's a foot in the door for authoritarianism, which becomes totalitarianism. Do I like that there are people slinging racial slurs, that they're being cruel and nasty? No, I don't. But I genuinely think that giving that toehold to authoritarian policies will ultimately be far worse for far more people than some hurt feelings or emotional distress. I hope that clears up the viewpoint, some!
A comment on the dangers of authoritarianism from a country where 90% of legislation does not serve the interests of the population, lol. But hey, at least we can wave nazi flags without getting arrested. Freeehduuuumb
Did something about what I had typed somehow give you the impression that I'm a *fan* of the status quo? I'm in full agreement that the vast majority of legislation either does not serve, or actively infringes upon the rights of the population. Being glib about a deeply unpleasant and extremely unpleasant and unpopular minority using their civil rights to be ghoulish and grotesque doesn't somehow diminish the inherent value of said rights. For that matter, neither does the behavior of the racist morons waving those flags. If you can't see why people having the right to freedom of speech, especially that which criticizes the government as you *just* engaged in is a *good* thing, then I think we probably have fundamental disagreements on quite a bit more.
There is a very good reason why some aspects of freedom of speech are regulated. And it has nothing to do with big gov controlling minds, and everything to do with ensuring a level playing field and having a rational basis for discussion in society. Letting extremist, actively *anti*-democratic propaganda run rampant in the name of a basic principle without applying context is one of the reasons why we are currently in the "post-facts" era, and unhinged "alternative facts" are treated as equal to rational viewpoints. Many European countries learned this the hard way after fascism. The US still hasn't. And yes, I am American.
There are good reasons why some aspects are regulated. Libel and slander, as an example, aren't protected speech. Misinformation is also a major issue, and I can agree with that. What I disagree with is the solution being to give the government more tools to control and moderate speech, as I have absolutely \*zero\* faith in the US government not to misuse and abuse such tools, in much the same way US Police often stretch and misuse Qualified Immunity to get away with horrific and egregious acts. I do not have any faith in our power structures, or \*any\* government power structures--or corporate, for that matter--to hold such power over people's ability to communicate. Misinformation needs to be countered and counteracted, yes, but I genuinely believe that if it doesn't come from a grassroots movement that expands aggressively, then the tools initially intended to countermand this misinformation will be turned against anyone whom the holders dislike. I also don't think Europe is a shining example of governmental perfection. Italy is quite literally \*famous\* for its amount of criminal corruption in its government body. Scotland recently passed a hate speech law that is being so terribly abused that several police departments are threatening to shut down over it, because they simply cannot handle it--and somehow, I don't think there are so many Nazis and racists in Scotland to account for the vast majority of such. Britain has an issue with massive over-surveilance, and despite all these tools, has infamously refused to pursue various criminal rings and organizations with it. I don't think that anyone's properly developed a workable solution without what I personally view as unacceptable long-term consequences. I'm not claiming to have the answers to what is an extremely tricky situation, but I am firmly of the belief that any answer \*must\* allow for the core principles of individual liberty and the ability to publicly express dissent to be unimpeded. This is a tricky and difficult situation, to be certain, but I \*am\* glad that we can at least be civil about our disagreement, here.
>Why would you want to live in a place where people can be openly racist and oppressive to each other?... Because that's better than living in an authoritarian hell-hole? I'd rather ppl can say mean things than have ppl going to jail for saying mean things. It's insane.
A guy was arrested in German for waving at police and they took it as a nazi salute, worlds gone crazy.
A German guy got his home searched because he called the mayor a dick on Twitter. After he already confessed to the "crime". Give a round of applause to Andy Scheuer everybody!
Yeah fuck Hitler. He ruined a hair style, a type of mustache and a simple type of greeting.
Me watching a documentary on how the Romans used to salute 👁👄👁
Was this when they were outside Hitlers childhood house and put flowers there or?
Anyone who thinks free speech exists anywhere on the planet is seriolusly mentally blind.
I've never been persecuted for the things I've said in the UK. I'm free to speak out against any institution here without persecution. What I am not free to do is perpetuate hatred or make threats to individuals, and I am perfectly content with that state of affairs.
That’s Scotland they can now arrest anyone for a hate crime for using bad language it’s not England and wales they’re still sane that might change tho when labour take over then the uk is done for
Humza doesn't want anyone to talk bad about muslims.
The thing is he’s a Muslim and no friend to the lgbtq whom these rules mostly protect …if you refuse to call someone a fox/foxet you can be charged with misgendering someone and charged with a hate crime it’s ridiculous
He's a joke and a WEF puppet, but so are the rest of the premiers and Sadiq Khan. Remember when Humza said that they should relocate all those palestinian refugees to scotland? Absolute muppet.
Definitely a muppet could you imagine bringing over a million foreign refugees who won’t change and just set up their very own palastine in Scotland
That's their plan. Same thing they're doing in here in Germany right now.
We don't have freedom of speech it's codified in our laws, we have 'freedom of expression',totally different sadly.
I'll be real with you but realistically US police could arrest internet trolls too, now if the prosecution wins in the court is another matter but Slander(if it meets the criteria) can get you prosecuted in the USA. UK is fucked tho lmao.
Hey hey trolls are really important. Not like those grooming gangs.
UK never had freedom of speech, that's an American thing.
Not US thing either to be honest https://www.reddit.com/r/therewasanattempt/s/HP9M1JaaWH
What is that video? Guy with a camera gets thrown to the ground by...? Are those cops? Why do you think a 10 second video is proof the USA doesn't have free speech?
I didn't say the video proves that. I think the anti bds laws in a way do though. The events the other post presents are just the results.
There are laws in the USA that don't allow the boycotting of another country? I'm not familiar with this
As far as I can tell, Wikipedia claims currently 38 states passed these types of laws with varying scope, mostly with bi-partisan support. You can probably guess the one country you're not allowed to boycott in those states.
United States of Israel 🤣
In America, you'll have freedom of speech as long as you're sucking off the regime or in general are not subversive or threatening to the status quo at all. The moment you do that, the moment you stop babbling and actually start trying to do something and gain some momentum, they'll fucking eviscerate you. The only thing that differentiates America from other countries is that the grip and the control that the American regime has on their population, as a global hegemon, is a lot stronger than other countries. That allows them to have all these "court jesters" whose existence, by the way, only further props up the illusion of freedom of speech and therefore the legitimacy of the regime ("look, we have freedom of speech and they don't!"). Anyone who thinks otherwise is a clueless idiot who has never read a book. Asmongold included. His take is delusional. Also it's funny how he's all about freedom of speech and all these other liberties, and how America is the greatest because we have all these things, and then the next minute he goes on a rant about how if anything you do or say obstructs/annoys anyone, well then that should be illegal and the police should come and fuck you up. Hilarious.
Yet Asmon says this and suddenly everyone comes out of the woodworks saying how much of a moron he is for not knowing that they do have it 😂 like, Google exists for a reason
My user name is where I am, Wales ie bit to the left of England. We never had foredoom of speech, what we had the Gov has been locking down for my lifetime. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship\_in\_the\_United\_Kingdom](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Censorship_in_the_United_Kingdom) >there is no general right to free speech in the UK What we have is a odd mix of law's that lets the gov/police apply selective use if they dont like you, I think there's still a law saying 'you can not say the king is not head of the church in a public place'. That law used to be a hanging offence, something to do with High treason I think [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High\_treason\_in\_the\_United\_Kingdom](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/High_treason_in_the_United_Kingdom)
Reminds me of friendlyjordies lawsuit where he was told he couldn't use footage from an offical meeting to prove the other side said what he said because it would "infringe on his right to defend himself" (Based on a law from the 1**7**00s) which is funny because he was the defendant and being unable to show said footage to defend himself.
Also reminds me of CountDankula who taught his dog how to do a certain salute from Germany in the 1930s. He was arrested for it.
The Bellamy Salute?
The US doesn't have it either. Plenty of people are punished by the law for saying or writing stuff. Quite right as well, the idea that there should be no consequences for slander, racism or defamation is absurd.
Are you being sarcastic?
No he’s not because it’s fact, go stand in front of any cop in the US and start being racist and homophobic and see what happens, see how far your freedom of speech lasts.
Depends on the trolling tbh. Some of it is just harassment and harassment isn't a right.
Old article, but still relevant. [https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/police-arresting-nine-people-a-day-in-fight-against-web-trolls-b8nkpgp2d](https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/police-arresting-nine-people-a-day-in-fight-against-web-trolls-b8nkpgp2d)
More than 3.300 detained in UK for "trolling on social media" in 2017. 411 in the same year in Russia. [https://archive.is/uQ1Qj](https://archive.is/uQ1Qj) I don't think you can say you have any freedom of speech if your country arrests people for social media posts 8 times more than fucking Russia
Yeah as long as we don't count all the people in Russia who just dissappear Im sure they're just on vacation though
Are those 'dissappeared in Russia' currently with you in the room right now? Like we get that you think Russia is what you saw in Hollywood 20 years ago, but times change man. If you count all the people that disappear in CIA black sites around the world, those will be even much higher than 8 times. Also in Russia mostly Russians disappear. The CIA makes no difference between us-americans and foreigners. Russia has lots of catch up to do, to reach US numbers.
Is there a non-paywalled version of this article, or is it only 4 short paragraphs long?
They should bring this to its natural conclusion and overburden the system with complaints.
We haven’t had freedom of speech for years. And it’s just getting worse.
They literally don't have free speech. they have a single corner with free-er speech.
The largest pile of horseshit about this is you can bash Christians as much and hard as you want. Say one thing about Muslims though and the gestapo will come knocking.
While I haven't researched the article, I just want to say that freedom of speech doesn't mean freedom to say whatever you want without consequences. However, I do agree that there should be quite clear distinctions between jokes, harassment, threats and the severity of the misinformation being spread. I also generally think people on the internet need some serious training in how to behave and act around others. Being a dick to someone physically can have consequences. So should behind a keyboard. Everyone knows 99,9% won't be arrested if you're not being a dick..
There are consequences to saying whatever you want. Always have been. But the consequences of not having free speech are far worse. Far, far worse.
Maybe, but consequences should be proportionate to the offense. Additionally where offense cannot be objectively and dispassionately measured it should not be a matter of law.
If there are consequences from the state to what you say then you don't have freedom of speech. Technically a North Korean can call his leader a moron, technically it is possible because he has vocal cords. It's just that he'll end up in prison.
Dude... "Freedom to say whatever you want without consequence" is basically "Freedom of speech" in a nutshell. I can't believe people really start you make the take you did... wtf... this is how fascist legitimize their stripping of freedom of speech. Because if we differentiate on the topics: "you can say that without consequences but better don't say that, this is misinformation." we are literally living in a society without free speech. it doesn't get less free speech that that. who defines what misinformation is? who says what is an actionable offense or what isn't? what is a threat? you might find that funny, but I remember when people enjoyed writing the most threatening stuff against white people you can image and it was totally okay. but if you change a single word, you get instantly banned and your account purged. so this is clearly far beyond any reasonable definition if 'freedom of speech'. That's why people like you already believe that the opposite of freedom of speech is freedom of speech. we are lost.
The U.K. doesn’t have freedom of speech, we have freedom of expression outlined in the 1998 human rights act. A detailed summary can be found here: https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/human-rights/human-rights-act/article-10-freedom-expression#:~:text=your%20own%20opinions-,Article%2010%20protects%20your%20right%20to%20hold%20your%20own%20opinions,television%20or%20radio%20broadcasting
The freedom to get fined is what I'm hearing.
England has more people charged and prosecuted for speech than Russia. Let that sink in.
That we know of. I doubt the majority of Russia' arrest records are public, since you know, it's a very authoritarian state. They only publish what they want us to know about.
[https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2024/country-chapters/russia](https://www.hrw.org/world-report/2024/country-chapters/russia) [https://greglukianoff.substack.com/p/online-censorship-in-the-uk-has-led](https://greglukianoff.substack.com/p/online-censorship-in-the-uk-has-led)
I am from Russia and you literally wrong. And the first site doesn't open.
I doubt they are arresting people that post harmless insults. They are probably after people making death threats and stuff like that. To classify that as "Internet trolls" seems a little odd, but yeah.
>They are probably after people making death threats and stuff like that. If you don't know what you're talking about, why are you making assumptions? Clearly it's more than this, otherwise people wouldn't be up in arms about it.
Yeah. I remember one time someone was arrested and people said it was against freedom or speech because it was online threats. However the guy wanted to run over people and threatened to shoot people, then was found in public with a gun. That's not exactly the least suspicious thing
This is what happens when 1984 wasn't used as a precautionary tale and instead is used as a guidebook.
Disgraceful. Proof that all the elite want is control.
We're just a resource to them...
I guess joke is a crime now.
Are we pretending that Florida didn’t do the exact same thing last year.
What are you talking about?
[here you go](https://youtu.be/GpzEjkVwK8A?si=AJJPhvHAyhiXA7US)
Here is the laws surrounding freedom of speech in the UK https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/human-rights/human-rights-act/article-10-freedom-expression#:~:text=your own opinions-,Article 10 protects your right to hold your own opinions,television or radio broadcasting
Most EU countries don't have freedom of speech on the level that US does. US is pretty much unique in that regard. However, I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing. We have cases of the government overstepping, but in general it's pretty clear what will get you in legal trouble and what not, so it just leads to people behaving themselves better on the internet.
This is Scotland if I am not mistaken. They recently sacrificed freedom of expression/speech for online safety which is a cuck move tbh.
The real news is local news
In Scotland
Any government willing to fuck their population could have always found a way to do it. Your freedoms have always been an illusion. Just be nice and maybe you won’t get hit. Or become law enforcement and be ahead.
Is there a reliable source for this?
Just so you know, shit like this doesn't even happen here, in Russia
why are you posting a 2017 article
Nobody said we have freedom of speech we know we don't 😂
>Can you really say that UK have freedom of speech when stuff like this is happening? you have freedom of speech just not freedom from consequences unless you use a VPN,a bullshit email/name and don't pay the Elon twitter tax
Need to borrow freedom from other countries to post your shit online? Nord VPN
They arrest more than russia does!
No they don't mean that kind of freedom of speech. But you also only have limited freedom of speech in the US either and cannot literally say what you want.
Lol! Fuck me. The censors have won in the uk. But may I ask, who watches the watchers??
Guess the US doesn't either after what happened at the university of Austin.
Not only UK, lots of Democratic-ish governments are censoring people, even YouTube has censored channels that are Republican inclined, total bias toward the left, that's the usual socialist way of controlling public opinion in social media, in my country there are people in prison just for demanding food or electricity, as crazy as it may sound. But in the end truth will get out no matter how much they try to make people believe in a fictitious sense of tranquility
I guess the Brits don't want to fall behind in their race to a 1984 society. After all, the guy who wrote it was a Brit.
I am amazed at such 'innocent' questions about Freedom of Speech. 1. UK does not have a written constitution where any rights are enshrined. 2. Even in countries where rights are enshrined in the constitution, there is NO such thing as absolute Freedom to do anything. All rights and freedoms, even constitutional, are subject to legal limits. Only simplistic people who have never read the actual constitution/law throw out these moronic absolute statements.
We will have a change of government soon. Hopefully some laws get repealed.
Isn't life's "current meta" to always be angry and offended. To make it your goal to be offended daily, post about i,t and hopefully unleashed the dogs of war of the offending parties?
They'll arrest you over a Roman solute joke. Those countries don't have freedom of speech. lol
UK has never had freedom of speech this isn’t the US, it’s not a thing. Isn’t it still technically illegal to slander the king/queen?
We don't have freedom of speech there is consequence for shit you say here
Almost no countries outside of the USA has true freedom of speech
Everybody thinks the other person is a troll.
Treasure your constitution Americans
That's what you get for voting right all those years.
hi, UK person with a law degree here. The UK does not have freedom of speech. It is not in our uncodified constitution. Even going back to the Magna Carta of 1215, there has never been a statue within England and Wales (Scotland has its own legal system) for the freedom of speech.
Only US has it, people think the entire west world has it.
They don't have free speech, there's literally laws against it.
For anyone from the outside looking in the UK is in a weird place legally. Cops have been underfunded for a while due to shitty government, so some crimes don't even get investigated (I personally know 2 people who's homes were broken into, one with a high degree of property damage, and these weren't even investigated. Just given a crime reference number for insurance). I feel like these arrests are easy ways of keeping numbers up with a low burden of evidence since it's all online.
good on them, certainly easier, then solving knife crimes. The british voted for this, they are not protesting, so everything is ok. They are happily creating their own police state. Just please same as americans, keep weird shit like this inside your borders please.
Freedom of speech =\= freedom of consequence, people seem to have a hard time understanding that.
Judging by the comments, unjust suppression of people is practiced all over the world. Which actually turns all countries into caste societies (where there are lower castes (they are not protected), a supervisory caste (they punish the lower caste for actions that go beyond what is permitted to their caste (for example, open dissatisfaction with higher castes)), a caste of serving managers (they direct the controlled 2 castes in the necessary direction), as well as the caste of managers. Does anyone have examples where everything is different? A place where every person is equal before any law?
coming soon to canada
It’s also illegal to have any self defense. Pepper spray jail…knife jail…. Martial arts jail….
Pepper spray needs to be a bare minimum at least with lessons on when to use it I mean come on now...
The U.K is 1 of the worst places for free speech it.
The uk is wack mo matter now much they shit on the US on here. I lived in Europe for 4 years, and out of all the places there, the uk is the last place i would live.
The UK doesn’t have freedom of speech, and definitely not freedom of consequence. The USA has far much freedom in speech than the UK does.
They should arrest more people for saying horrible shit, not less.
People don't seem to understand that freedom of speech (expression) also comes with quite reasonable consequences in the case of making threats and spreading hatred. I doubt many of the people here would be defending my right to free speech If I was shrieking hateful abuse through their elderly mothers letterbox at 3am every day.
Yep. I do feel like there's a lot of mental gymnastics going on from people who like to believe they have more "freedoms" than people from other countries. The "land of the free" having a higher percentage of it's citizens in prison than almost anywhere else in the world seems to be lost on them. The US is great by the way, probably in the top 5 places I'd like to live for a variety of reasons but them being "extra free" is not one of them, because it's bullshit.
Yes. Cause freedom of speech is not absolute. You can't Say racist/homophobic/sexiste shit freely in developped countries
You can and should be able to say any of those things in an actual free country. It's incredible how ppl like you will argue for your own muzzling.
That annoying pianist guy was saying this to those Chinese people, sorry mate UK is a leftist authoritarian shithole because Brits were too weak to do anything about it
It might be hard to understand for muricans, but "freedom of speech" isn't the end all be all. It's not some kind of gotcha to say "if you do this you attack freedom of speech". That's fine. I'd rather have no freedom of speech than have people spreading hate, and there's plenty of people like me in the world. Probably more than muricans with guns who think they should be allowed to say whatever they want.
Hate is an emotion. Nothing more. The problem is if you do hateful things that physically hurt someone. But all these things are already illegal for a long time from discrimination, violence and slander to repeatedly harassing someone. Getting arrested for having an emotion once is nuts and just a way for the government to criminalize people who are unhappy with the state of things. Im not a hateful person but this vile attempt at controlling the masses makes me hate the government and everyone who supports this. I am sure a lot of people have similar thoughts. Lets see how this will work out for our coexistance.
The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Offensive speech isn't spreading hate. Its displaying it. You ban guns and amount of stabbings increase. You ban knives and people spill acid on each other. You ban that and people drive cars into the crowd. You want to tackle hate not its symptoms.
Ban guns and gun violence goes down 80%. BUT KNIFE VOILENCE INCREASES BY 10% SO IT WAS POINTLESS. We should just tackle the cause of all human voilence, the human condition instead. Fixing that is a much more obtainable and realistic goal.
They should ban violence.
Just give everyone a lobotomy at birth call it a brain circumcision.
Well I think you shouldn’t think anymore.
Are you just here to just troll and say stupid shit on a daily basis? That's a sad life I suggest going out more without your phone
Just posting my opinion. Aren't you a blind worshipper of freedom of speech? Also, my life is fine. It's certainly better than that of some incel whining about freedom of speech dying cause trolls are not allowed to spread hate.