I'm just about to hit 30 - just quit my job that was 90k a year - I've realised that the only thing that comes from doing "the right thing" is debt and stress.
I had a real estate sales role for a few months that was paying VERY well. I was on track for a 6 figure first year in my really early 20’s. But 4 months in I realized I was literally waking up, going to work, coming home, then sleeping. I was super depressed as I couldn’t do anything I wanted to do and that was no way to live. I left that role for a job paying about $70k a year and I’m so, so, so much happier now
It takes a special kind to handle the submariner's life. My dad was one for quite some time; I don't blame you for getting out. For what it's worth, your kid(s) will definitely appreciate having their dad around.
I'm 30.
My job is around 65k a year plus salary packaging, but it's 4 days a week and super chill and supportive, and is doing some good in the world. I got a small mortgage on a apartment in a nice area 5 minutes from the beach. Just me and my cat.
A bit of mortgage stress is worth the lifestyle.
Same. Just turned 32 and quit my 85k job and don't plan on returning to full time work any time soon. Would rather keep my spending low and enjoy my limited time on this planet. Can't really imagine going back to the cubicle.
Yeah I make about half of what I did in 2020. Not a whole lot has really changed, I just buy less stuff. When you make more money you tend to spend more money. Everything made now is some plastic piece of Chinese crap, so I found that the increased consumerism didn’t really result in an improvement in lifestyle, just more spending and debt.
The way I see it, lying flat, quiet quitting, and leanfire or povertyfire are all similar except difference in degrees, but the basic principle involves reducing spending or consumerism in order to get out of work more quickly or do the minimum.
Dunno why anyone would ever do more than the bare minimum under capitalism; what’s the point in working hard just to make someone else richer?!?
I always looked at career climbers taking on dramatically worse workloads for insignificantly more pay as absolutely out of their god damn minds.
I know a lot like this.
Someone with a masters in astrophysics who now does 3 days a week for a company in film.
Another with a phd in mathematics who after a couple of years working for a company algo trading decided he would rather work at a book store.
Others who are less academically impressive but still engineers, science grads, and junior drs among them. Sometimes they continue in their journey even when they have given up.
The ages range from 25-40 of the people I'm thinking of. To be honest I don't blame them. At the end of the day most of them are giving their lives for someone else's dream. For a lot of them, they've come to terms with the fact that no matter how hard they work there's a fair chance they won't get to do what they would like. So instead they build a life they want to have.
A lot of them just prefer humble lives and playing board games and dnd with friends
I'm panicking to prepare for a panel interview for a postdoc position in Physics, and I honestly hate it. I'm working 12 hours a day preparing, and beating myself up for sucking at my field and not knowing everything I think I should, and im just miserable.
I'd say it's 50/50 that I quit the field in the next 6 months and just, I don't even know, working at a bookstore does sound kind of nice.
I got to then end of my phd and realised the competition and ridiculous work hours just weren't worth giving up my home and family time.
I still work full time because I love my current job, but it's in a completely different field. Still, im perfectly happy not moving up the ladder.
Me and the wife are in the less academically impressive group - engineer and dr respectively. We just realised quite early what money is for. I don't care to work FIFO in the mines and the $300K won't appeal to me. Wife doesn't want to be a slave to the hospital system basically begging for a consultant to approve your pathway.
I work in a consulting firm and wife's a GP. We pull in our modest six figs and clock in 38hrs a week - we realised career shit won't fulfil us about halfway through our uni degrees. We want time to travel, exercise, hang out with friends and do volunteer work.
Coming first in the rat race just isn't worth it unless you can break into that upper echelon. Most of us can aspire to be upper middle class, which is really just the same shit you get in middle class except you got a home cinema and a Mercedes.
Okay, this one is too similar. Do you live in SA, go to dnd nights, and your first name starts with H?
Would be hilarious if one of the people I was referencing replied
Lmao, you got me then. I just started messaging a friend and they were like "I have no clue what on earth you are talking about and don't know what Huggies are"
I'm checked out too, I still work full time but 100% from home and I do not do anything not squarely in my bucket. I've done the 'above and beyond' thing for a long time and there were accolades but learned too late that competency just leads to more work. I've realised no one will try to answer their own questions, they just ask someone else because they can't be bothered. I've stopped answering.
I'll give them this, I did get offered opportunities.. but they involved a lot of ramping up and extra work based on my reputation to learn things quickly and turn them around to a high standard of quality. Meanwhile the guy sitting next to me that sticks to his lane, less competent and would lean on me when he got stuck, coasted to management without any real ramp up requirement besides running reports and managing capacity when the opportunity came up months after I was assigned to innovation projects. Producing high quality work and acting with integrity is not rewarded.
It was the “gargling the bosses nuts” effect that kinda led me to leave the rat race.
Not me but I had colleagues who were ladder-climbers who had drank the “gargling nuts” coolaid. I watched them work SO HARD for years, endless career development meetings, and in the end one was made redundant and the other had a mental breakdown due to the increased workload they had for a $10k raise.
At the same time I got a pay raise twice that big without even trying and I knew it was just dumb luck of who my manager was versus theirs who was a hardarse.
I would see this sort of thing in the workforce all the time that told me “hard work doesn’t equal reward”.
So I went contract, as a sole trader. I gave MYSELF the pay raise I wanted and never had trouble finding people willing to pay it.
Why the hell would I beg some boss or manager for that raise like they did?
And I set my own hours.
Why would I want to be admonished by some useless corporate sycophant for being 5 minutes late when I could be free from that requirement; to be rigidly “on time” everyday when I could just show up whenever I want and leave whenever I want. Hell, I can just say “felt like doing something else today” and not even show up, as a sole trader (if I want to miss out on invoicing that day).
I have real dignity at work for the first time in my life.
It’s not worth the $80k or so difference it would be to to go back to working longer hours in a rigid and controlling workplace
I am not somebody who believes in being loyal to your boss, but I actually *am* loyal to him because he goes out of his way to keep me happy and not exploit me.
I'll never make as much as somewhere else, but the lifestyle I can have working with this boss is far better than I'd get anywhere else.
I work when I want. No micromanaging. I have a lot of creative freedom. I can drop things by just asking to not do them. I never get calls out of hours. Holiday is always approved. WFH whenever I want without prior notice. I've already gotten two payrises but I'm not working as hard as I once was. It's great.
Pure, dumb luck that I work with him, too, because he took a chance in me when I didn't qualify for the job at all.
Yep what's the point? Have to pay off hecs the boomers didn't have. Have to pay 10x yearly income (if you're lucky) for a house. Cost of living going up, real wages going down. The system is broken.
Lost two years of my early twenties to a pandemic now get dealt a shit hand when trying to build wealth and plan for the future
I know a dude with a very similar story but in banking. Is a real left brain/right brain guy. Brilliant at maths but also very creative and a great musician. After doing the whole scholarship/grad role/on triple figures by mid 20’s just walked away from it. Moved to a quiet country town. Bought a shit house for chips. Teaches music/creative arts lessons out of the local high school. Used his saving to pay for solar panels and setting his house up as off grid as possible. Grows his own veggies.
I know a surprising number of people that choose to live a simple life and then work what they need to achieve that, they are all gifted and well educated people. From time to time one will decide they want to travel for a bit so jump back into 9-5 life to save up and off they go. I don't think it would be the life for me, but they all seem pretty happy and relaxed.
If you can live a life you enjoy that is different to the norm, do it I say.
I have a friend - her mum is an administrative assistant, her dad works at a warehouse. They bought a house about an hour train ride away from the city in maybe the early 90s or so.
She is now a hotshot lawyer, probably on around 160k a year (at the moment), more than both her parents ever earned even after adjusting for inflation. I don't know the specifics of how much her house was (they don't live there anymore) and how the finances were, but she did tell me once, "My mum and dad didn't have uni degrees and were able to buy that house and still put me through private (Catholic) school. Meanwhile I went through all this study, earn more than them, and I have to buy even further out - how is that fair?"
I resonate with my friend and totally agree.
I think it hurts because that demographic of that generation kept telling us: you have to get a good education to get a good job, to do better then we did! But it’s not our reality.
I was speaking to Nan last week and she goes ~ "I don't know if buying a house really is a good idea right now. A lot of my friends' kids/grandkids who have bought recently are struggling to keep up with it and they're stuck." Big respect, Nan, we then agreed enjoying life and being satisfied is really what it's all about.
If only I had known how much money they make before dedicating myself to university life 🙄 my partners brother is literally doing it for toyota, guaranteed a higher wage than im going to be earming in a decade, getting a 25k handout from the government and getting paid to learn, all whilst accruing no debt. Ugh. Why did everyone say go to uni?
Yup, every mechanic i knew growing up is retired and on disability. None of them get to actually enjoy the rest of their life with the broken bodies that their work gave them.
Blue collar jobs are a lot safer today than 20-30 years ago. Trick is you have to embrace a safety culture and not let the old guys with no knees and bad backs encourage you to do stupid stuff because back in their day you just heaved it up there.
One downside is you often can't leave it. As the skills are really specific and everything else will seem like shit pay.
Plus if you like spending time with your partner, doing FIFO isn't the way to go imo.
I just think it's not always great from what I've seen from some people in the industry. Particularly rotating shifts, seem to make people a bit shitty which is definitely something they take home with them.
That said I get it, I truly do. I'm going into that industry myself with a 4 year uni degree. And yes operators of trucks, dozers, graders ect. will be paid more than me for a good while. Had a science teacher take 6 months off to go work driving trucks just for the cash lol, I questioned whether that's what I should do after my degree.
The other thing I like about it is it's not busy af, so you don't have to worry about the wonderful benefits of living in the city like applying for 100s of rental properties, finding/paying for parking and absolutely appalling traffic. But will admit it's not a great place for a single bloke if you decide you want a partner at some point lol.
> Why did everyone say go to uni?
Because if you approach uni in the right way, you end up part of the bureaucrat /technocrat class and have a life of (by global and historical standards) extreme comfort.
You can't just go and scape by and expect that to achieve much though. In the same way that just picking a random trade and doing the bare minimum might result in you being stuck on minimum wage
Yep, and IME it hurts them too. They genuinely believed what they were telling us - because it was true for their generation and they assumed it would be true for ours.
Labourer dad and stay at home mum sitting on a paid off house worth 2 million that they built for 170k in the late 90s. Wife and I are DINK with decent jobs and after a couple of years of hard saving are finallly about to buy... a two bedroom townhouse. I feel this.
People talk about never buying a house... but it makes me a bit more sad about never having kids.
To be clear, I absolutely see house as a requirement for kids. (And by house, I don't necessarily mean white picket fence, but at the very least a kid-friendly condo).
I think this is a real shame as well. The real reason for declining birth rates is housing affordability and cost of living. Living in a 5 person sharehouse as a working professional isn’t the most conducive environment to raising children
One of my best mates died when we were both around 26 years old (suicide). At the same time, I saw one of my role model family members - who was your typical work hard and look forward to retirement kinda guy - retire at 60ish with two busted knees and limited ability to truly enjoy his hard earned retirement.
This confluence of events was a real turning point for me. I think that there is a balance, but since that time I've tried to avoid letting concern for my long term wealth impact my short term enjoyment.
Life is short, we only get one shot, and if I'm able to enjoy myself while I'm young and healthy I'd be silly not to try.
PS - this is not to say I piss money away, I am still secure long term. I just don't beat myself up for fun purchases anymore. Not everything has to make perfect financial sense.
>PS - this is not to say I piss money away, I am still secure long term. I just don't beat myself up for fun purchases anymore. Not everything has to make perfect financial sense.
I'm learning this now myself. I was obsessive with finances for several years and frankly it's not worth it. Enjoy 25 years of decently hard work instead of being miserable for 15.
It's not too uncommon in law for that to happen anyway. Plenty of people who do really well in school just find the workload of working at a law firm not worth it. I have more than a few friends who have stopped working in law after their 30s.
I also feel the same at times but when I think about it, it's mostly just housing that we feel we don't get as good as our parents. We can likely afford better food, entertainment, comfort etc...
Some firms have a quiet policy of burn and churn. It's brutal and the rewards of yesteryear used to be equity partnership.
The workload has increased 100x since email and mobile phones, billables are insane and what someone would get done in a week 40 years ago is done in seconds now with 24/7 connectivity to the firm's cloud based server. It's all about utilisation now.
All this so you can get to your mid to late thirties and languish as a special council while the boomer equity partners hold on for dear life before retiring. Gen X is next in line anyway. There's also a glut of law graduates but a shortage of lawyers, wonder why?
Not isolated to law firms, this just seems to be professional services as a whole.
If you're at the top you're looking to maximise your profit through as much wage theft as possible because "we all did it" as juniors and that's "how you make partner".
When in reality the fast track to partner is having a broad network that will secure business, not your work ethic/hours attributed to the firm.
The competition for law is ridiculous. People will line up for hours at careers day to ask questions on how to interview for a top tier law firm.
They just pile the work on because if you can’t hack it there is 100 others waiting right behind you.
This is because you get in with the expectation of being fast tracked to partner but then you work and realise you will never be an equity partner and can get much paid more for doing less.
My parents brought the house we lived in for 60 grand, it's now worth north of two million.
If you give me the trade deal of eating slightly shittier quality food, having to go to a cinema or having ads on my TV which only plays at 480p, and in return I get a housing market like my parents got I'd take it in a heartbeat.
I earn more than what my parents earned combined at the same age, even accounting for inflation and I don't have a chance of getting a house around the same neighbourhood.
Who gives a shit about affording comfort when the bare minimum of a roof over your head is starting to look like a luxury by itself?
I feel the same, parents bought house for 38k was probably paid off before I was born or very young. We had low income health care cards and qualified for youth allowance when in high school.
My wife and I both work and earn above average now, we have 200k saved and probably 250k in equity in our unit. Which is great, we have secure housing (too small for the 4 of us and visiting in laws).
But even with good pay and large deposit we cannot afford to live where I grew up. My childhood home has been knocked down but similar in that area is 2.5 million. It is a popular high school zone yet the prices are so high that the families buying there could easily send the kids to private schools.
Law seems like a field that in reality is nothing like people imagine at all I think people have a Hollywood romanticism of what being a lawyer looks like, spend all of schooling working to that vision then realise it’s completely different.
I once saw someone explain this phenomen like this and it blew my mind. Exactly what I have felt but couldn’t articulate.
The standard of living in aus is generally pretty good. Most of us, say 70%, are working/middle class, and while not rich, still had relatively comfortable lives ie a roof over our heads and food to eat, most people complete their education. Compare this to e.g the lowest 50% in a developing nation where those things are much worse quality.
The thing is, when the general standard is pretty good, there is not much upward mobility. That means all those aussies who live pretty comfortably struggle immensely to break through to get to the top %. It can only done with extremely hard work, talent, intelligence and luck. So the effort to payoff ratio is way, way overblown. So you bust your ass working 70hrs a week to gain maybe 5% upward mobility. And still can’t afford a house in a capital city. That is what demoralised this generation - there is no point to all that hard work, for such little rewards.
Compare this to a less affluent nation, you’re more incentivised to work hard etc because your standard of living can plausibly hugely escalate, in a way that is almost impossible in aus.
I went to one of the best high schools in aus and many, many of my overachieving friends have come to the same realisation as OP. Some have totally gotten off their initial career paths, some haven’t, but they are all mentally burnt out at some stage.
On a personal note, my parents are refugees who came with nothing but the clothes on their back. They were able to buy a nice 4bed house in the suburbs in the 90s. Their combined salaries was less than my single income today. I will not be able to afford anything more than a 1bed apartment, and I have plenty of savings.
Or even an affluent nation, with a lower baseline standard eg the US. Wages for professions like law, medicine, tech are all much higher in the US, but trades are paid much less, minimum wage is much lower.
Yes totally. The income inequality in USA is much more disparate, and with a smaller middle class than aus. So if you’re low income in USA you’re doing comparatively very badly, and there is a lot of incentive to try and dig yourself up/out (if you want). Whereas low income here you’re still doing ok, relative to our working class or other countries low income.
I would much prefer to live in aus than USA, knowing I can have a stable life with a safety net. I think we have it right in that regard.
Yeah, I guess the thing is there will likely end up being a lot of brain drain from Aus for this reason as the word globalises.
It puts us in a bad position to be innnovative, competitive and grow our economy (but due to our incredible natural resources we don't have to worry about this too much).
I like our system better on the whole, but it has its downsides, too.
The thing I find crazy is we really punch above our weight on a GDP and export scale. Like we're third after Saudia Arabia and Russia for resource exports yet despite having a population that is tiny in comparison, we're having arguments about whether or not we can afford dental in Medicare. It's not just resources, it's heaps of things. The money hasn't all gone to infrastructure because"we're such a big country it costs a lot". There's more to it.
A lot of third world is also experiencing the same phenomenon. However many of the third world countries have massive populations so a lot of things are happening together and this is one of them.
Honestly if I was 25 now I’d probably feel the same. Things seem pretty dire in terms of the economy, housing and climate change.
And let’s not forget the impact of the pandemic on young people’s mental health too. No gap years or travel, limited socialisation, interrupted school/uni and a lot of stress. I feel for them.
Youth counterculture for decades has critiqued the ideal of working 40 years just to have a house in the suburbs, an average car and raising another generation of suburbanite workers, all so that you can shuffle off into aged care.
The counterpoint to this though is that most people found themselves a job they tolerated and had the disposable income to enjoy themselves in the time they had off.
Nowadays the system can't offer a lot of people the house in the suburbs, or the tolerable job, or the disposable income, or even the resources to have kids. The idea of the nuclear family in the democratic capitalist state is breaking down.
Even if I could provide exceptional care for children, I would hate to bring them into a world of turmoil. My optimism about the climate, about humanity in general is so depleted I just would hate to pass that off to someone else.
I’m 25 and honestly it feels hopeless. This renting situation is bleak, the lockdown had an impact on my peak study/work years, i faced financial abuse which has made life even more difficult and I may never be able to get a mortgage because of it. Most people have no chance with the housing situation as it is. It feels hopeless… like what is the point?
excellent comment thanks.
if the question is: “why are brightest minds of this generation (who have been facing the devastating impending doom of the climate apocalypse since they were teenagers, fears only interrupted and compounded by the covid apocalypse as they became young adults) checking out for their mental health?”
then the real question is: jfc why the fark are they not ALL doing it?
I honestly think he will do this for a bit, figure himself out and end up happier. I had a bit of a quarter life crisis after finishing my degree. I chose not to use it and worked a few different jobs, had a couple of kids and now finally seem to be figuring out myself at 32. The hard thing was all the pressure I got from other people to use it. Leave me alone, be supportive and let me figure myself out.
I am nearing 30, have a PhD, paying off a PPOR, worked in what can be considered socially respected and financially quite well-paid roles: I am nevertheless still figuring it out.
For reference, it is very common for sociologists and economists to define younger adulthood up to the age of 35 nowadays. I can also say, based on my own academic research, the 'figuring out' stage of life is protracted for younger people because the market is saturated with highly-educated, mobile individuals and this creates a competitive environment that feeds burnout. Everyone I know is usually overqualified for their job, have skills/experience exceeding those required for their roles, and still have to argue tooth and nail to get any form of permanence or a role that provides a financial foothold to weather rising costs and downward pressure on wages (in real terms). If you want a house, a family, and a yearly international holiday, you have to compete with a far bigger market. It is demoralising and can make you check out as a defence mechanism. You also adapt, or what can feel like compromise, and that itself can be dispiriting vis-a-vis the relative accessibility of these things for previous generations.
>For reference, it is very common for sociologists and economists to define younger adulthood up to the age of 35 nowadays.
As a mature age uni student majoring in economics and sociology... yes.
I worked before and during my PhD to supplement stipend - also refused to go beyond the funding period (3.5 years). I also have a partner, which always helps. Our finances have always been 50/50 including the 20 per cent deposit. Live within our means and a property (apartment) that did not over leverage us.
Still working life out. It is all daunting. Having a family? Who even knows. Long-term work stability? Look, one cannot really bank on that (at least, it is far harder to given the constant squeeze that comes around every other year).
I mean, if you were able to afford to have *multiple children* while "figuring yourself out" then your situation is already very much not typical. Many people who have full-time steady jobs still can't afford children, let alone people who are actively career-hopping.
Yes I went a similar way. I have colleagues now about 5yrs younger doing same as me and perhaps better technically but they lack certain people skills and have never travelled, been politically active, gotten into arts etc. I dont regret taking the scenic route. I see a bigger picture now. What if one has the same experience later, but then with too much responsibility?
What did you end up working in? I'm struggling with this now, I dropped out of uni because I just wasn't interested in IT anymore. Now I just feel aimless, because I don't have any skills that could land me a proper job.
I can compose myself well in an interview because I have worked all over retail, but I seriously don't know what I want to pursue career wise.
I'm starting to think as long as I find a job I feel comfortable doing (like admin or something), that can support me living out of home and fund my hobbies while still putting money in the bank is all I'll need to be happy.
Wish I was someone that could've been like "I want to be a lawyer!" but that just ain't me I think
Hey regis, I remember envying people who knew at such a young age that they wanted to be a lawyer/doctor/accountant etc.. until i started my career and realised so many of these people are just faking it/forcing themselves to believe that. Only way to know if you like something is to do it, otherwise it's all just imagination, you don't truly know what the work will be like.
In terms of not knowing what you want to pursue career wise is completely normal, a common piece of advice you'll hear is follow your passion, that's useful if you know what your passion is and that it pays a living wage. However if you don't, just know that passion also tends to follow skill, so just find things that you have a vague interest in and you are willing to learn and get better at. Also realise that this might change over time and that's fine, we lucky live in a time now where people change careers frequently.
Best of luck friend
The "rat race" has never been worth it.
Guy has a job that covers his needs. Why is that framed as some sort of a problem or "giving up" or not being enough?
That’s a very good point. He does live a very fulfilled life at the moment. Filling his time with genuine interests.
Makes me actually think the people stuck in the office chasing material goods are the ones that may be the suckers here
They are.
Imagine working 60 hours a week to get the crumbs from somebody being rich, turning 55, looking back at the last 30 years and accomplishing nothing for yourself.
No positive memories. A massive bundle of stress. No achievements outside of somebody else’s workforce.
I’d kill myself.
Housing is a rigged game, to the benefit of the older generations at the expense of the younger generations, all bought about by extremely poor government policy over several decades.
I sometimes feel the same way as this guy.
Some of the older generation missed out too, my parents never bought their own home and now they're retiring you see how much it hurts them to realise they're never going to.
You always think you have more time and nobody could have predicted how crazy expensive it would get.
People predicted it. If you read property investment books in the 90s as my old man made me do, I used to laugh at the proposed predictions regarding house prices and now that we're here, its no laughing matter
Central Banks raise rates, mortgage payments go up, companies cut back on spending, people lose jobs, miss payments, try to sell their homes, house prices fall, homes get repossessed.. Then central banks lower rates and banks start lending more, home prices rise and they sell their fresh supply of newly repossessed homes.
The same scam has been happening for decades but the prices keep going higher cyclically and the value of our currencies keep going lower. Eventually there will be hyperinflation but maybe not this time.
Tbh we have to end central banks but we’ve had them for so long that everybody thinks there’s no other way.
Na we ain’t giving up we just have the pride to know what is a healthy balance and enjoy our lives while we’re young no matter what the man wants. Working all day 5 days a week should not be normal. How many people on their death bed has said oh I wish I worked harder when I was young?
Never understand the people who take pride in being cucked by a job 5 days a week. "It gives me purpose"....eww. I feel sorry for people who say that deranged crap. I would rather lay on the floor 9 hours a day than go into an office 8-5 5 days a week. The fact we tolerate it actually makes me think we are all just really stupid
I worked in oncology and palliative care for 10 years. Saw hundreds of deaths.
Zero people said to me "I wish I worked harder/had more money ".
At least half said regretted;
Spending too little time with children (while making money)
Spending too long at work
Putting aside enjoyment until they retired (died and didn't get to do it)
Not living a life that was more enjoyable
The game has to be worth the candle. Those at the top want to keep squeezing? They will reap the consequences.
There are other ways to stop the machine… simply get off. Pretty soon this latest generation of fat cats will realise what their parents learnt - the slaves only keep the machine running if you feed them comforts and provide each generation with a little more. Tip the scales too far because of your greed, and it doesn’t take long for the rebellion to bubble up. And history teaches us it can take very different forms, it doesn’t always have to be obvious and bloody.
More options out there for sure. I have friends who work FIFO in mining 2 weeks on 2 weeks off, but now job share. 2 weeks on 6 off, plus 2 weeks annual leave, it’s like 5 x 2 week swings a year for 80-90k a year. The rest of the time the surf and travel and do side gigs in carpentry and other things they have as hobbies or using their skills. Not exactly a terrible way to live!
I am this exact person.
HDs in every subject on my HSC, top university, great job paying big money.. and then I realised (too late) that it’s just not worth the effort.
30 now, sold my soul in my 20s only to realise that I’ll never be as successful as my grandparents despite working 100x harder.
Why sell my soul to the company store when I can find some work life balance and enjoy my life?
My grandfather got a government job straight after leaving school in year 9 and then a government pension, worked the same job from 16 until he retired. Owned 2 houses on a single salary, raised 7 kids, and got to retire at 55 and live off the same salary but as a government pension until the day he died.
It was an amazing deal, one I wish still existed.
At 10% super earning 100K per year, I’d be putting 10K in a year. 10 years of work for my super is worth less than what my grandfather got every year from 55 until his death.
My grandfather lived until he was in his mid 80s, 30 years of government pension. I’d have to work hundreds of years for my super to be even close to equivalent to that.
I don’t think many on those schemes realise how fortunate they are to not have to save and plan for their own retirement. It’s a huge responsibility and exhausting - makes it harder to take risks.
It’s not giving up early, it’s just the fact that most people can’t save the insanely high deposit needed for a house then let alone pay the mortgage off, whilst being told by parents to just “save money” whilst rent payments are more a week than their mortgage is a month.
You work to live, not live to work.
What’s the point of earning millions if your entire life focus is on earning the money instead of enjoying it?
Can’t enjoy the money when you’re dead so may as well enjoy your life while you’re alive.
I see this a lot with the very smart. They do the smart job that they were smart enough to get into - that everyone expects them to do with all their potential, but not the job they actually wanted to do. The trick is to follow your passion when it comes to your career, otherwise you’ll feel like a paid slave.
This is actually more true than people imagine - quite a number of academic high-fliers get pressured into a small number of very specific and potentially very lucrative professions.
Medical (medicine, dentistry etc.) related degrees and law being the two most prominent.
I’m 35 and just burning out seeing home ownership become more and more distant. I work in the arts (technical) and I’m pretty successful for the small market, but no bank would ever give me a mortgage and houses are preposterously expensive. So I get it, why the hell am I working myself to death when I could be taking it easier and being less stressed? I’m currently on the verge of a nervous breakdown. What’s the damn point?
I'm not young and I feel this way too. r/antiwork is also full of this sentiment (in fact Americans have it far, far worse). The social contract is indeed broken. Greed and sociopathy are winning. There is no god but money.
I’m 23 and have just left my marketing job to go back to retail. I couldn’t handle the stress to the point that I ended up in hospital with chest pains. I was taken in an ambulance from the office and my boss cracked it when I told him I wouldn’t be working the next day. When I reported sexual harassment from a coworker to HR they refused to acknowledge it and my manager told me I should just be grateful it wasn’t worse. I wouldn’t go back to that kind of a job for all the money in the world.
Damn it sounds like you've had the worst time. Good thing you're out of there. That kind of environment would crush anyone's spirits over time.
I have a friend who was earning double in insurance, but he came back to retail because he hated it and thought "you know what, I enjoy my retail job".
I tried working in reception once and it was DREADFUL. Once I came back to my retail job I really appreciated how flexible it was and that I actually get paid well considering. Just felt like returning to a safe space.
However it's always on my mind that if I stay in this midset too much I will get TOO comfortable staying in retail, and not try to pursue anything more valuable.
I dont know, this shit harddddddddd
28-years-old, have countless mates who have done the exact same thing.
One couple I know had saved for years for a house deposit then reassessed things and decided they'd rather travel the world than overpay for a shitty apartment in the city they were born in (Sydney).
They've been gone for a year and say it's the best choice they've ever made
I'm sort of the opposite, where I did my travelling and living overseas in my very early 20s and now I'm quite content to live in an apartment. I think if I hadn't then maybe I'd be itching to leave, but while it's enjoyable short term it's not a sustainable lifestyle for most people if you intend to come back. Moving overseas permanently is a different matter.
I wonder how many of the “pull yourself up by your bootstraps” crowd in the comments calling this kid lazy got 99 ATARs and did well enough at uni to land a role at a top tier law firm
It reminds me of this quote by George Carlin “business owners want obedient workers that are smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork but just dumb enough to passively accept shittier jobs”.
People that buy into the “bootstraps” notions are often in the passive group and ignore structural issues.
https://youtube.com/shorts/PIL-rOqlUog?feature=share
In Japan, there are thousands of young people who never leave home and it called
Hikikomori. It refers to the recent state of middle and high school students who drop out of school, and withdraw completely from society.
A similar thing is happening in China. People are not having children as a form of protest. The social contract is broken. They are not getting richer and are expected to work 996 (9am-to 9pm x 6 days a week).
He is a sensible person.
Yeah, quit teaching to become a cleaner. The works.not worth it and it won't get me a house in a fair amount.of time. Been great for my mental health and quality of life.
Yes, I've worked for 20 plus years in mental health and I've seen that pattern developing over the last 5 years or so, they're completely pessimistic about any chance of being financially independent, so they're prioritising their lifestyles instead. Have to say I admire them, but I doubt our capitalist culture will be so merciful
As an Aussie youth (23) I see this a bunch, seems like society switched from the carrot (work and you can afford a home and support a family, to the stick (work or starve). Overall it seems like an overwhelming feeling of hopelessness, we're gonna be the ones that are gonna be left with cleaning up the world with shit all cash after the boomers are done amassing their record profits while not giving a shit about the environment they're destroying
In the 60s John B. Calhoun, an ethologist, decided to do a series of experiments involving populations of mice and rats. The idea was to see what kinds of behaviors might emerge if he put different pressures on the rodents.
The most famous of these series of experiments was "Universe 25". In Universe 25, a gigantic cage was built, capable of housing up to 25,000 mice comfortably. And those mice would be in a utopia, with no limits to access to food, water, warmth, shelter, and entertainment/environmental enrichment. The only thing limited in U25 was *physical space*. As the population grew, there would be less and less room per mouse.
So they put a few families of mice into U25 and waited, allowing them to breed as mice do. What happened? Long before they reached the estimated possible population in U25, *mouse society collapsed and the mice died out*. The max population ended up being only 2,200 mice, far less than the estimated possible population of U25. And the way that mouse society collapsed, well, it *very closely resembles some current problems in our own*, including some mice claiming sections of the cage for themselves, well guarded by loyal and strong male mice, so that they could waste their days just grooming each other. Mice on the floor of the cage, excluded from the penthouses, became to turn into cannibals, engaged in random and serious violence with each other, and all but stopped attempting to have children or raise families. Sounds a bit like rising crime, school shootings, and Millennials opting not to have babies, does it not? Based on what he saw in U25, Dr. Calhoun came up with the concept of a [Behavioral sink](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behavioral_sink) to explain that even with access to infinite material resources, mammal populations will still collapse and regress, sometimes to extinction, from sheer social pressure of being exposed to too many bodies in too small a space. As Calhoun himself described it:
>Many [female rats] were unable to carry pregnancy to full term or to survive delivery of their litters if they did. An even greater number, after successfully giving birth, fell short in their maternal functions. Among the males the behavior disturbances ranged from sexual deviation to cannibalism and from frenetic overactivity to a pathological withdrawal from which individuals would emerge to eat, drink and move about only when other members of the community were asleep. The social organization of the animals showed equal disruption. The common source of these disturbances became most dramatically apparent in the populations of our first series of three experiments, in which we observed the development of what we called a behavioral sink. The animals would crowd together in greatest number in one of the four interconnecting pens in which the colony was maintained. As many as 60 of the 80 rats in each experimental population would assemble in one pen during periods of feeding. Individual rats would rarely eat except in the company of other rats. As a result extreme population densities developed in the pen adopted for eating, leaving the others with sparse populations.
Calhoun ran this experiment over 50 more times using mice, and every time it ended the same - segregation of the "beautiful ones" who lived in luxurious spaces separated from the main throng and spent all of their time on grooming and play (but never mating nor raising young, basically becoming asexuals that liked to cuddle a lot) as the throng turned to cannibalism of their children despite plenty of food being around and extreme outbreaks of wanton violence.
Rats, however, managed to avoid such a fate in a few of the experiments. This is because rats tend to form clans, and compete against the other clans. At a certain point the rats reached an equilibrium - too much growth would trigger wars between the clans, which reduced the population down enough to be stable again.
In other words, we don't want a Star Trek utopia, we want a Warhammer 40k future, because constant warfare is a means to release simmering aggression caused by too-large populations.
One of the largest wealth transfers in Australian history took place during Covid and it’s happening again now with the cost of living inflation issues. Australia fast loosing its egalitarian status. I don’t blame young people for giving up.
This mentality is the exact problem. The standard go to school, go Uni, get job, get married, have kids then pay off mortgage is not NORMAL. There’s so much more to life and younger generation are realising that a lot of things their parents groomed them with does not necessarily mean happiness.
The social contract *is* breaking down, dude. Trust in institutions is low, education is increasingly a meaningless pipeline into dehumanizing work for less and less fair pay, and our brains are so melted by decades of STEMlord "productivity"-centric discourse that even art is being taken over by AI in the hopes that we can produce even more.
It's not that I think The Youth should check out, but we didn't provide them with the tools to navigate this world we had a hand in creating. We just gave them consumerism and technology and expected them to work it out.
There's something deeply wrong with Australia and it's not just limited to Australia TBH.
In 1920, the median wage from a 'breadwinner' was easily enough to sustain a large family and other expenses like a home purchase. The current median wage ($80,000), you'd struggle raising a single child and a $600k apartment would take many decades to payoff with what you have remaining post-tax.
I see a few major problems:
1. There are too many parasitic middlemen services that rob productivity between the purchaser and the services and goods they are acquiring. This can be banking/finance related expenses, ineffective taxation, high taxation and other things in the supply chain that unnecessarily increase the cost of goods/services. This problem is not unique to Australia. Bloat like this tends to form in established economies.
2. Australia has adopted the american suburban model of development which essentially 'ponzifies' real estate. Planning regs on density, large private open space and green wedges (much needed) means there is limited real estate to go around especially in capital cities.
3. Australia allows foreign investment in real estate and purchase via SMSF. Imagine allowing purchase through SMSF. Only those in extremely privileged positions have enough super to buy a home - imagine giving them a tax break to buy a house!.
4. Fractional reserve banking (while restricting bank runs). Fractional reserve banking allows banks to lend out money they don't have. This is then rehypothecated in the economy meaning the banks can issue more loans and earn more interest on money that doesn't actually exist. A fractional reserve of 20% means a $1 creates an additional $4 in the economy.
Reducing cost of housing is the first step to re-energizing young people. Real measures are needed i.e. one property per Australian in any capital city, not this "$10k for first home owners or 5% deposit" BS.
I had to live with my parents until 32 to pay off my house i bought for $500k. I am happy for this to tank 80% in value if it means real measures are brought in to fix cost of housing and real estate speculation.
This resonates. I graduated law school and decided to avoid the corporate gigs like the plague. At the time, people my age humiliated me for my decision. Lots had drunk the kool-aid and said things like "you'll never own a house" and "good luck paying the bills with your principles."
Ten years later, those people still don't own houses. The reality is that the older generation lied to us continually. They said work hard and you'll get all of these rewards (house, car, kids), while ignoring that the economy had systematically changed (low wage growth, high cost, higher hours).
I clued into this early when I met a few senior lawyers who hated their lives. Combining their hatred with the new economics made it very clear : pursuing that path would lead to failure.
While I'm here, let me just say that people in these jobs tend to give up their hobbies, their passions, sport and political engagement. The working hours are so bad that they have no friends outside of work. I went to a friend's wedding and was the only person who didn't work for their company - that's basically a cult at that stage. Like no other friends, no hobbies, nothing.
One of the first things you learn in a foreign language is: "what are your hobbies?" In Sydney, I stopped asking that question because it made people angry. They were resentful that I prioritized having hobbies and a life outside work. The systematic condescension and rudeness I faced for my choices pushed me out of the country. Living overseas and have never been happier.
Don't blame him at all, it's like playing monopoly. The boomers have had 20 x turns ahead and taken away the collect $200 every year. It's not a fair game.. government policy past 20 years also helps these boomers. What's the point?
Not just the $200.
They also bough Mayfair, Park Lane every other property on the board.
Oh but they left us the run down Old Kent Road, but it now costs $1.5m.
Previous generations put up with shitty workplaces and jobs they hated 'because thats what you do'.
The current generation have the balls to say nope, im not doing that, i want to actually enjoy life.
Will be interesting times ahead.
25 here, I recently got promoted to a remote job that allows me to work/live overseas.
I am absolutely giving up on ever owning anything down here and will try my luck in SEA or somewhere in Japan.
Cost of living is just too unsustainable here and I just don’t see it getting better.
My story is not uncommon at all and many of my coworkers in Sydney are seriously having/wanting to move to a cheaper city like Melbourne or Perth and at the most extreme leave the country like myself.
25 here as well, grew up in Perth and it's crazy to see the real estate pricing over east. I've just bought a modern 2x2 unit for $245k, hard to believe they go for double or more over there. feel hard for them.
Yes I've heard of this. It's more common in people with high aptitude for critical thinking rather than intelligence, however they're probably correlated.
A guy I knew had one subject to go before graduating his doctorate in neurosurgery, only to decide to give up and work in a bank call centre 3 days a week. His ATAR was 99+.
My ATAR was 96.x and I quickly lost my soul in the first years of working in corporate. If I could go back in time I would have lived out of a van.
I found intelligent young people who thrive in the rat race just have very strict parents they don't want to disappoint.
Not sure what a doctorate in neurosurgery is, you can't even get yo neurosurgery until you've done a bachelors, med school, residency, surgical specialisation... that's 20years of post highschool study.
Phd in neuroscience however makes more sense, I can see that kinda making sense. But damn, neurosurg and neurosci are *not* the same lol
Doing only what the job demands is historically called “work to rule,” AKA staying exactly within the contract while you continue to work. It’s nothing like quitting at all, and framing it as a form of quitting is propaganda.
Hi from Canada. Seems to be a trend everywhere. When the cost of living keeps rising like crazy and employers don't seem to care about us as people, it removes any kind of incentive to strive for more.
You can't get blood out of a stone. In my personal example, my employer announced at the beginning of the year that we made 45 million net profit. We're a company of less than 150 people. Amazing right? Nah it was "good but we didn't meet our target".
We've had improvement every single quarter for the past 5 years. Only a select few are seeing profit share from those earnings.
Management proceeds to get on our case about increasing productivity. Morale drops like a brick.
At some point people realize that no matter how hard they work, it's not going to either be appreciated or amount to a life our parents had, so you might as well cut back and actually enjoy your life. We could die tomorrow and our employers would replace us in a week. Why spend the best years of your life slaving away for someone else's gains?
My parents are both around retirement age. They worked really hard their entire lives and had respectable high paying careers. Now that they're in their 60's their medical issues are preventing them from enjoying their time to the fullest. They lost a good portion of their savings to a scam which also didn't help.
They're back to square one but they only have me to fall back on. Life can change suddenly at any point. We should look out for each other and live life today, not some day off in the future. There's just no guarantees in life so it's good to smell the roses
Edit: also with all that said, it's not a bad thing to strive for more or work hard. It just depends on what a person wants for themselves. Right now things just don't seem equal in the worker/employer relationship
Pretty hard to go to work without a goal. If you can't buy a house, what's the point of going to work. Live fast do fun things. Suicide is a easy retirement plan when the body starts to fail.do the fun things while your young instead of 60+
I'm 30, in the same sort of boat but hanging in there because I feel my 'obligations' require me to do so.
It is bullshit though. I'll never own a house, I'll never retire early.
It's hard enough to find a rental with a reasonable sub-30min commute to work let alone find the motivation to do anything I enjoy in my limited downtime.
If the smart ones are giving up, that's a warning sign.
Seriously though, I'm 30, modest savings but bluntly, living on a granny flat at my grandparents farm where i help out, and work nights full-time, which i just do what i can, if i work normally, I get whipped for not doing enough. But if i work hard, i get whipped for whatever was missed anyway.
I have absolutely no desire to move up. I'd love a house, but bluntly i see it so unobtainable it's not worth stressing about, and it's annoying especially because I have a sister, who due to being part aboriginal, can get 0% interest loans with gov assistance, and used it to full extent with her husband's mining supervisor income, they have 4 houses, and has zero understanding that others don't get the opportunities she has. Compound this with a mother who doesn't get it either and it leaves me avoiding family interaction because it comes up constantly. Yet still i see said husband, he's the same age as me, yet is utterly crippled with back and joint problems from 12 years of backbreaking labour, and his worry is even in the short term future, he can't keep it up.
Least my grandparents do understand somewhat, grandpa sees the news about housing, shakes his head and mentions he put three kids through school and could still afford a house while his wife looked after the kids. He has no idea how anyone is supposed to afford it today.
Ohh...you referenced the social contract!! The Australian dream
Yes not only is it broken, young people have to pay for the generation before them and the disabled. Much more than previous generations.
He shouldn't give up. He is talented. He should have moved countries. That's what I did/am doing. Surprised he didn't change the playing field... oh well
Exactly. I now live with my German wife in a middle sized city in Germany. Couldn’t be happier. Sydney, Australia was my home until early 30s. Can’t compare. Quality of life MUCH better here. Might have something to do with the whole economy not revolving around a Ponzi housing scheme.
Careful! People don't tend to like the suggestion that there are other places as good as or better than Australia.
Reality is though. Australia is like one big mining town. You're paid extra to compromise on a lot of quality of life and just work hard. Problem is a lot never get to enjoy the extra. It just gets eaten up.
Sorry that young people don’t wanna work full time and slave away their life for no fun. I’m only 23 and was an essential through the pandemic and I was underpaid for the work we did and didn’t get to spend any money on going out cause we couldn’t leave our houses. Plus he could also have health issues and no one is willing to listen to him. He may still be feeling bad/burnt out. This life also doesn’t have constantly be doing a bunch of things all the time either. He could be filling his time with hobbies too.
Former lawyer here. Yes that is true. You work as a lawyer. In your graduate years you hope to come a full unrestricted practitioner. Then after that you work to become an Associate or SA. Salary for the first 5 years range from 70000 to 150000. Then you’re stuck at SA for a long time. Sure you will get bonuses and perks but you won’t be Partner for a while. With Partners a salaried one will earn somewhere between 200-300k.
Good luck trying to get equity. You’ll work like a dog and will be pissed on going it’ll happen. By that time you’ll be practising for 10-15 years minimum And you’ll likely not have seen your kids, your gf/bf and probably working on coffees or lines of coke.
Welcome to law bitches.
There’s a page on Instagram with a guy that interviews people of all ages (mostly older) and asks them what they prioritise younger they realise today is not actually that important.
You know most say? Money. We prioritise money and don’t focus on enjoying life as a youth and spending time with family/friends.
You can always make more money, you can’t buy back time and being young! Experiences mean more than buying a 3 bed house, being “stuck” in the rat race. How boring.
If I die at 35 from cancer, 45 by being in a car accident, 70 by a fall or 90 by old age - I don’t want to regret not enjoying my time on earth because I prioritised the rat race.
I'm 41, I did similar back in 2009, decided to chase my photography after receiving a redundancy from a high level IT Management role. I have zero regrets, I also have very little chance of buying a house, I was going to buy in 2020, then 2020 happened.
It happens before every great social upheaval like the cultural revolution, as well as every civilizational collapse in history.
Birth rates collapse, depression rates surge, people stop believing official narrative and lose faith in corrupt leadership structures.
The endless gas lighting of our leaders stops working.
Youth give in, opt out. Start to organise and protest once they get part the 'existential depression's phase, and graduate to the existential rage phase.
This is why all the political elites are phasing in systematic social media censorship and soon to be age walls.
When the host culture fails they know the youth will seek out or create a counter culture.
This means the elites may be held accountable for all they have done.
They need to crack down on all spaces where young people organise, or they are going to lose everything.
Get ready for satanic panics, moral panics, and a whole lot of emotional hook propaganda, as they try to convince us to give up our rights without too much of a struggle.
We have studies the last three generations of people aren't getting more Consetvative as they age, so all the 'Anti woke' and other insane propaganda they use to control the population will stop working once the boomers pass on.
When this happens we have to be ready to push. It is one of the few windows that exist for real, genuine change. Those few periods you can affect things. The great Churn, when old Ideology and those who pandered it are thrown out, and a new age begins.
When this happens you also have to be wary of Narcissistic or Psychopathic leaders trying to fill the vacuum.
The last thing we need is a repeat of the cultural revolution, with all those people falling under the sway of gurus and Influencers.
We can't let it be the Andrew Tates and Shapiros.
I noticed this trend 20 years ago while working in investment banking. Young research analysts choosing to opt out after a few years rather than climb the corporate ladder. Running off to be yoga teachers or whatever… I kind of went that way myself after 15 years in a corporate job: I opted out and chose sex work instead. So if super smart people are starting to notice that late stage capitalism is failing us, it warms my heart. These smart people also seem to have the option of living at home whereas people from disadvantaged backgrounds might not be so fortunate. I think more people than we realise understand that the social contract is broken, but they are chained to the wheels of labour.
the future was stolen from these people, work hard, strive for no return, the guy is smart enough to see society is offering a bum deal. get a million dollar mortgage which you will be enslaved to for ever and never own the asset. BTW my generation, X, did the same thing
They got told that the standard path was uni > excellent job > the Aussie dream, and then when they got to the end of uni, they were launched into a financial crisis, a housing crisis, a climate crisis, war, food insecurity, and a world that doesn't give a shit.
They aren't giving up, they're disillusioned and grieving the life they WANTED and sacrificed for the life they were told they wanted.
It's been going on for 30 years.
Last year I quit my decently well paying job as a qa chemist on the Northern Beaches to spend all my savings on solo backpacking Europe for 7 months. I have nothing to my name now but at I'm living my best life in the Netherlands now, having such a great time here
It’s happened in the US for a while, and is becoming prevalent even in Asian cultures where usually saving face and diligence is king. Eg China and [“lying flat”](https://www.bbc.com/news/business-60353916.amp)
I’ve worked my way up the ladder in consulting, working crazy hours and super stressful, and I can’t buy a place within 20kms of where I grew up in Sydney. And that’s downsizing to a townhouse rather than my parents place on 700sqm. A teacher and a builder. I earn more than double what they used to earn combined.
I saw it in the consulting world where people just left for passion projects considering it not worth it. The most prescient example was old school friends who are both doctors, couldn’t buy a place sensibly within 30mins drive of where they are both rostered. They’d be on over $500k between them, but then deduct tax and also would have to spend time slogging away for a decent deposit.
People look at the Simpsons as a good example of a 90s lower middle class family. Read someone had calculated that outside the major US cities and assuming you aren’t in a “no man’s land” crime wise like Gary Indiana that lifestyle would cost over $200k, something out of reach of the vast majority - you basically need to be in tech or one of the top law firms (basically impossible job to get unless you went to Ivy League) to approach that.
Most degrees now are just a ticket to play in the job stakes. Here’s pretty bad with HECS and education now bring about export dollars, it’s worse in the US wheee you’re saddled with $100ks of debt that can’t be extinguished via bankruptcy for a degree that’ll get you a job paying $12/hr.
Everyone’s realised we’ve been sold out. The maths doesn’t work anymore. People are opting out. Doesn’t help in Sydney where certain people don’t seem to work, drive around in Mercedes G wagons, and it’s obvious that the secret ingredient to afford these things and a half decent house is crime.
It takes hard work and intelligence to realise that spending your entire life grinding away for the sake of other people's profits simply because "its what you do" makes no sense.
I don’t blame them tbh
I'm just about to hit 30 - just quit my job that was 90k a year - I've realised that the only thing that comes from doing "the right thing" is debt and stress.
If a jobs gonna be a solid 60-75% of my life, I’d rather enjoy making pennies than be depressed making 6 figures.
I had a real estate sales role for a few months that was paying VERY well. I was on track for a 6 figure first year in my really early 20’s. But 4 months in I realized I was literally waking up, going to work, coming home, then sleeping. I was super depressed as I couldn’t do anything I wanted to do and that was no way to live. I left that role for a job paying about $70k a year and I’m so, so, so much happier now
I'm 31. After leaving the submarine force and being a carpenter I realised a stay at home dad with a small business suits me just fine.
It takes a special kind to handle the submariner's life. My dad was one for quite some time; I don't blame you for getting out. For what it's worth, your kid(s) will definitely appreciate having their dad around.
When you play hide and seek with your kids, do you give them one ping only?
I'm 30. My job is around 65k a year plus salary packaging, but it's 4 days a week and super chill and supportive, and is doing some good in the world. I got a small mortgage on a apartment in a nice area 5 minutes from the beach. Just me and my cat. A bit of mortgage stress is worth the lifestyle.
Same. Just turned 32 and quit my 85k job and don't plan on returning to full time work any time soon. Would rather keep my spending low and enjoy my limited time on this planet. Can't really imagine going back to the cubicle.
Yeah I make about half of what I did in 2020. Not a whole lot has really changed, I just buy less stuff. When you make more money you tend to spend more money. Everything made now is some plastic piece of Chinese crap, so I found that the increased consumerism didn’t really result in an improvement in lifestyle, just more spending and debt.
If you were making twice the amount and getting more debt, then that is a problem to work on imo. Unless you are talking about good debt.
And usually a lot more work
The way I see it, lying flat, quiet quitting, and leanfire or povertyfire are all similar except difference in degrees, but the basic principle involves reducing spending or consumerism in order to get out of work more quickly or do the minimum.
Dunno why anyone would ever do more than the bare minimum under capitalism; what’s the point in working hard just to make someone else richer?!? I always looked at career climbers taking on dramatically worse workloads for insignificantly more pay as absolutely out of their god damn minds.
I know a lot like this. Someone with a masters in astrophysics who now does 3 days a week for a company in film. Another with a phd in mathematics who after a couple of years working for a company algo trading decided he would rather work at a book store. Others who are less academically impressive but still engineers, science grads, and junior drs among them. Sometimes they continue in their journey even when they have given up. The ages range from 25-40 of the people I'm thinking of. To be honest I don't blame them. At the end of the day most of them are giving their lives for someone else's dream. For a lot of them, they've come to terms with the fact that no matter how hard they work there's a fair chance they won't get to do what they would like. So instead they build a life they want to have. A lot of them just prefer humble lives and playing board games and dnd with friends
I’m this person, advanced degree but planning on living very modestly so I only have to work a few days. I just want to enjoy life
I'm panicking to prepare for a panel interview for a postdoc position in Physics, and I honestly hate it. I'm working 12 hours a day preparing, and beating myself up for sucking at my field and not knowing everything I think I should, and im just miserable. I'd say it's 50/50 that I quit the field in the next 6 months and just, I don't even know, working at a bookstore does sound kind of nice.
I got to then end of my phd and realised the competition and ridiculous work hours just weren't worth giving up my home and family time. I still work full time because I love my current job, but it's in a completely different field. Still, im perfectly happy not moving up the ladder.
Me and the wife are in the less academically impressive group - engineer and dr respectively. We just realised quite early what money is for. I don't care to work FIFO in the mines and the $300K won't appeal to me. Wife doesn't want to be a slave to the hospital system basically begging for a consultant to approve your pathway. I work in a consulting firm and wife's a GP. We pull in our modest six figs and clock in 38hrs a week - we realised career shit won't fulfil us about halfway through our uni degrees. We want time to travel, exercise, hang out with friends and do volunteer work. Coming first in the rat race just isn't worth it unless you can break into that upper echelon. Most of us can aspire to be upper middle class, which is really just the same shit you get in middle class except you got a home cinema and a Mercedes.
Okay, this one is too similar. Do you live in SA, go to dnd nights, and your first name starts with H? Would be hilarious if one of the people I was referencing replied
OMG YES! Crazy
*furiously goes through Reddit history
Lmao, you got me then. I just started messaging a friend and they were like "I have no clue what on earth you are talking about and don't know what Huggies are"
HAHAHA Sorry I couldn't help myself. Judging from my wife and my friends it's quite common for doctors and engineers to be good matches romantically.
Haha it was worth it. Interesting that you've noticed a trend in that. Didn't realise it was so common
why race with the rats while the cat eats all the food anyway
Even if you win the rat race, you are still a rat.
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Probably not ones you picked out of Brisbane sewers.
Run free and loose, like the hedgehog in the woods
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I'm checked out too, I still work full time but 100% from home and I do not do anything not squarely in my bucket. I've done the 'above and beyond' thing for a long time and there were accolades but learned too late that competency just leads to more work. I've realised no one will try to answer their own questions, they just ask someone else because they can't be bothered. I've stopped answering.
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I'll give them this, I did get offered opportunities.. but they involved a lot of ramping up and extra work based on my reputation to learn things quickly and turn them around to a high standard of quality. Meanwhile the guy sitting next to me that sticks to his lane, less competent and would lean on me when he got stuck, coasted to management without any real ramp up requirement besides running reports and managing capacity when the opportunity came up months after I was assigned to innovation projects. Producing high quality work and acting with integrity is not rewarded.
Upvote for “gargling your boss’s nuts”. Very well done.
It was the “gargling the bosses nuts” effect that kinda led me to leave the rat race. Not me but I had colleagues who were ladder-climbers who had drank the “gargling nuts” coolaid. I watched them work SO HARD for years, endless career development meetings, and in the end one was made redundant and the other had a mental breakdown due to the increased workload they had for a $10k raise. At the same time I got a pay raise twice that big without even trying and I knew it was just dumb luck of who my manager was versus theirs who was a hardarse. I would see this sort of thing in the workforce all the time that told me “hard work doesn’t equal reward”. So I went contract, as a sole trader. I gave MYSELF the pay raise I wanted and never had trouble finding people willing to pay it. Why the hell would I beg some boss or manager for that raise like they did? And I set my own hours. Why would I want to be admonished by some useless corporate sycophant for being 5 minutes late when I could be free from that requirement; to be rigidly “on time” everyday when I could just show up whenever I want and leave whenever I want. Hell, I can just say “felt like doing something else today” and not even show up, as a sole trader (if I want to miss out on invoicing that day). I have real dignity at work for the first time in my life. It’s not worth the $80k or so difference it would be to to go back to working longer hours in a rigid and controlling workplace
I am not somebody who believes in being loyal to your boss, but I actually *am* loyal to him because he goes out of his way to keep me happy and not exploit me. I'll never make as much as somewhere else, but the lifestyle I can have working with this boss is far better than I'd get anywhere else. I work when I want. No micromanaging. I have a lot of creative freedom. I can drop things by just asking to not do them. I never get calls out of hours. Holiday is always approved. WFH whenever I want without prior notice. I've already gotten two payrises but I'm not working as hard as I once was. It's great. Pure, dumb luck that I work with him, too, because he took a chance in me when I didn't qualify for the job at all.
Yep what's the point? Have to pay off hecs the boomers didn't have. Have to pay 10x yearly income (if you're lucky) for a house. Cost of living going up, real wages going down. The system is broken. Lost two years of my early twenties to a pandemic now get dealt a shit hand when trying to build wealth and plan for the future
I know a dude with a very similar story but in banking. Is a real left brain/right brain guy. Brilliant at maths but also very creative and a great musician. After doing the whole scholarship/grad role/on triple figures by mid 20’s just walked away from it. Moved to a quiet country town. Bought a shit house for chips. Teaches music/creative arts lessons out of the local high school. Used his saving to pay for solar panels and setting his house up as off grid as possible. Grows his own veggies.
I know a surprising number of people that choose to live a simple life and then work what they need to achieve that, they are all gifted and well educated people. From time to time one will decide they want to travel for a bit so jump back into 9-5 life to save up and off they go. I don't think it would be the life for me, but they all seem pretty happy and relaxed. If you can live a life you enjoy that is different to the norm, do it I say.
I know lots of people in their 20's and 30's earning over $100k who have given up on owning a house and dont even bother saving for it anymore.
Even if you can afford a house construction quality is shit... It's not justifiable to pay current prices for such low quality houses/apartments.
I have a friend - her mum is an administrative assistant, her dad works at a warehouse. They bought a house about an hour train ride away from the city in maybe the early 90s or so. She is now a hotshot lawyer, probably on around 160k a year (at the moment), more than both her parents ever earned even after adjusting for inflation. I don't know the specifics of how much her house was (they don't live there anymore) and how the finances were, but she did tell me once, "My mum and dad didn't have uni degrees and were able to buy that house and still put me through private (Catholic) school. Meanwhile I went through all this study, earn more than them, and I have to buy even further out - how is that fair?" I resonate with my friend and totally agree.
I think it hurts because that demographic of that generation kept telling us: you have to get a good education to get a good job, to do better then we did! But it’s not our reality.
I was speaking to Nan last week and she goes ~ "I don't know if buying a house really is a good idea right now. A lot of my friends' kids/grandkids who have bought recently are struggling to keep up with it and they're stuck." Big respect, Nan, we then agreed enjoying life and being satisfied is really what it's all about.
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Yeah exactly this, why enjoy your life when you're young.
If only I had known how much money they make before dedicating myself to university life 🙄 my partners brother is literally doing it for toyota, guaranteed a higher wage than im going to be earming in a decade, getting a 25k handout from the government and getting paid to learn, all whilst accruing no debt. Ugh. Why did everyone say go to uni?
Believe me, blue collar work isn't the golden ticket everyone on Reddit claims it is.
Yup, every mechanic i knew growing up is retired and on disability. None of them get to actually enjoy the rest of their life with the broken bodies that their work gave them.
Blue collar jobs are a lot safer today than 20-30 years ago. Trick is you have to embrace a safety culture and not let the old guys with no knees and bad backs encourage you to do stupid stuff because back in their day you just heaved it up there.
Yeah, my dad was a panel beater. Worked like a dog for low pay. I'll take my office job thanks
Agree. It can pay well, but I've met more than a few panelbeaters and spray painters who live with physical pain and injuries.
One downside is you often can't leave it. As the skills are really specific and everything else will seem like shit pay. Plus if you like spending time with your partner, doing FIFO isn't the way to go imo. I just think it's not always great from what I've seen from some people in the industry. Particularly rotating shifts, seem to make people a bit shitty which is definitely something they take home with them. That said I get it, I truly do. I'm going into that industry myself with a 4 year uni degree. And yes operators of trucks, dozers, graders ect. will be paid more than me for a good while. Had a science teacher take 6 months off to go work driving trucks just for the cash lol, I questioned whether that's what I should do after my degree. The other thing I like about it is it's not busy af, so you don't have to worry about the wonderful benefits of living in the city like applying for 100s of rental properties, finding/paying for parking and absolutely appalling traffic. But will admit it's not a great place for a single bloke if you decide you want a partner at some point lol.
> Why did everyone say go to uni? Because if you approach uni in the right way, you end up part of the bureaucrat /technocrat class and have a life of (by global and historical standards) extreme comfort. You can't just go and scape by and expect that to achieve much though. In the same way that just picking a random trade and doing the bare minimum might result in you being stuck on minimum wage
Yep, and IME it hurts them too. They genuinely believed what they were telling us - because it was true for their generation and they assumed it would be true for ours.
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Labourer dad and stay at home mum sitting on a paid off house worth 2 million that they built for 170k in the late 90s. Wife and I are DINK with decent jobs and after a couple of years of hard saving are finallly about to buy... a two bedroom townhouse. I feel this.
People talk about never buying a house... but it makes me a bit more sad about never having kids. To be clear, I absolutely see house as a requirement for kids. (And by house, I don't necessarily mean white picket fence, but at the very least a kid-friendly condo).
I think this is a real shame as well. The real reason for declining birth rates is housing affordability and cost of living. Living in a 5 person sharehouse as a working professional isn’t the most conducive environment to raising children
Friends dad bought a house in Sydney in the 80s with $70k cash, no mortgage. Sold it for 2.4mil recently.
One of my best mates died when we were both around 26 years old (suicide). At the same time, I saw one of my role model family members - who was your typical work hard and look forward to retirement kinda guy - retire at 60ish with two busted knees and limited ability to truly enjoy his hard earned retirement. This confluence of events was a real turning point for me. I think that there is a balance, but since that time I've tried to avoid letting concern for my long term wealth impact my short term enjoyment. Life is short, we only get one shot, and if I'm able to enjoy myself while I'm young and healthy I'd be silly not to try. PS - this is not to say I piss money away, I am still secure long term. I just don't beat myself up for fun purchases anymore. Not everything has to make perfect financial sense.
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>PS - this is not to say I piss money away, I am still secure long term. I just don't beat myself up for fun purchases anymore. Not everything has to make perfect financial sense. I'm learning this now myself. I was obsessive with finances for several years and frankly it's not worth it. Enjoy 25 years of decently hard work instead of being miserable for 15.
It's a fundamental injustice that not all of us get a retirement. I try to entertain that possibility when I plan for my own future.
It's not too uncommon in law for that to happen anyway. Plenty of people who do really well in school just find the workload of working at a law firm not worth it. I have more than a few friends who have stopped working in law after their 30s. I also feel the same at times but when I think about it, it's mostly just housing that we feel we don't get as good as our parents. We can likely afford better food, entertainment, comfort etc...
Some firms have a quiet policy of burn and churn. It's brutal and the rewards of yesteryear used to be equity partnership. The workload has increased 100x since email and mobile phones, billables are insane and what someone would get done in a week 40 years ago is done in seconds now with 24/7 connectivity to the firm's cloud based server. It's all about utilisation now. All this so you can get to your mid to late thirties and languish as a special council while the boomer equity partners hold on for dear life before retiring. Gen X is next in line anyway. There's also a glut of law graduates but a shortage of lawyers, wonder why?
Not isolated to law firms, this just seems to be professional services as a whole. If you're at the top you're looking to maximise your profit through as much wage theft as possible because "we all did it" as juniors and that's "how you make partner". When in reality the fast track to partner is having a broad network that will secure business, not your work ethic/hours attributed to the firm.
Seems like a lot of people do 1-2 years at a law firm and so something else entirely. Same goes with other professions but I see it most with law.
The competition for law is ridiculous. People will line up for hours at careers day to ask questions on how to interview for a top tier law firm. They just pile the work on because if you can’t hack it there is 100 others waiting right behind you.
> you can’t hack it Alternatively "if you value work life balance"
This is because you get in with the expectation of being fast tracked to partner but then you work and realise you will never be an equity partner and can get much paid more for doing less.
My parents brought the house we lived in for 60 grand, it's now worth north of two million. If you give me the trade deal of eating slightly shittier quality food, having to go to a cinema or having ads on my TV which only plays at 480p, and in return I get a housing market like my parents got I'd take it in a heartbeat. I earn more than what my parents earned combined at the same age, even accounting for inflation and I don't have a chance of getting a house around the same neighbourhood. Who gives a shit about affording comfort when the bare minimum of a roof over your head is starting to look like a luxury by itself?
I feel the same, parents bought house for 38k was probably paid off before I was born or very young. We had low income health care cards and qualified for youth allowance when in high school. My wife and I both work and earn above average now, we have 200k saved and probably 250k in equity in our unit. Which is great, we have secure housing (too small for the 4 of us and visiting in laws). But even with good pay and large deposit we cannot afford to live where I grew up. My childhood home has been knocked down but similar in that area is 2.5 million. It is a popular high school zone yet the prices are so high that the families buying there could easily send the kids to private schools.
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Law seems like a field that in reality is nothing like people imagine at all I think people have a Hollywood romanticism of what being a lawyer looks like, spend all of schooling working to that vision then realise it’s completely different.
I sure hope ppl dont base that reality on medical shows and doctors too XD
I once saw someone explain this phenomen like this and it blew my mind. Exactly what I have felt but couldn’t articulate. The standard of living in aus is generally pretty good. Most of us, say 70%, are working/middle class, and while not rich, still had relatively comfortable lives ie a roof over our heads and food to eat, most people complete their education. Compare this to e.g the lowest 50% in a developing nation where those things are much worse quality. The thing is, when the general standard is pretty good, there is not much upward mobility. That means all those aussies who live pretty comfortably struggle immensely to break through to get to the top %. It can only done with extremely hard work, talent, intelligence and luck. So the effort to payoff ratio is way, way overblown. So you bust your ass working 70hrs a week to gain maybe 5% upward mobility. And still can’t afford a house in a capital city. That is what demoralised this generation - there is no point to all that hard work, for such little rewards. Compare this to a less affluent nation, you’re more incentivised to work hard etc because your standard of living can plausibly hugely escalate, in a way that is almost impossible in aus. I went to one of the best high schools in aus and many, many of my overachieving friends have come to the same realisation as OP. Some have totally gotten off their initial career paths, some haven’t, but they are all mentally burnt out at some stage. On a personal note, my parents are refugees who came with nothing but the clothes on their back. They were able to buy a nice 4bed house in the suburbs in the 90s. Their combined salaries was less than my single income today. I will not be able to afford anything more than a 1bed apartment, and I have plenty of savings.
Or even an affluent nation, with a lower baseline standard eg the US. Wages for professions like law, medicine, tech are all much higher in the US, but trades are paid much less, minimum wage is much lower.
Yes totally. The income inequality in USA is much more disparate, and with a smaller middle class than aus. So if you’re low income in USA you’re doing comparatively very badly, and there is a lot of incentive to try and dig yourself up/out (if you want). Whereas low income here you’re still doing ok, relative to our working class or other countries low income. I would much prefer to live in aus than USA, knowing I can have a stable life with a safety net. I think we have it right in that regard.
Yeah, I guess the thing is there will likely end up being a lot of brain drain from Aus for this reason as the word globalises. It puts us in a bad position to be innnovative, competitive and grow our economy (but due to our incredible natural resources we don't have to worry about this too much). I like our system better on the whole, but it has its downsides, too.
The thing I find crazy is we really punch above our weight on a GDP and export scale. Like we're third after Saudia Arabia and Russia for resource exports yet despite having a population that is tiny in comparison, we're having arguments about whether or not we can afford dental in Medicare. It's not just resources, it's heaps of things. The money hasn't all gone to infrastructure because"we're such a big country it costs a lot". There's more to it.
A lot of third world is also experiencing the same phenomenon. However many of the third world countries have massive populations so a lot of things are happening together and this is one of them.
That's an interesting perspective. I also think life is getting a lot less comfortable in Australia, fast.
Honestly if I was 25 now I’d probably feel the same. Things seem pretty dire in terms of the economy, housing and climate change. And let’s not forget the impact of the pandemic on young people’s mental health too. No gap years or travel, limited socialisation, interrupted school/uni and a lot of stress. I feel for them.
Youth counterculture for decades has critiqued the ideal of working 40 years just to have a house in the suburbs, an average car and raising another generation of suburbanite workers, all so that you can shuffle off into aged care. The counterpoint to this though is that most people found themselves a job they tolerated and had the disposable income to enjoy themselves in the time they had off. Nowadays the system can't offer a lot of people the house in the suburbs, or the tolerable job, or the disposable income, or even the resources to have kids. The idea of the nuclear family in the democratic capitalist state is breaking down.
To be honest, I would love to have kids. I just wouldn't be able to provide the same quality of life my parents did and that would kill me inside
Even if I could provide exceptional care for children, I would hate to bring them into a world of turmoil. My optimism about the climate, about humanity in general is so depleted I just would hate to pass that off to someone else.
I’m 25 and honestly it feels hopeless. This renting situation is bleak, the lockdown had an impact on my peak study/work years, i faced financial abuse which has made life even more difficult and I may never be able to get a mortgage because of it. Most people have no chance with the housing situation as it is. It feels hopeless… like what is the point?
excellent comment thanks. if the question is: “why are brightest minds of this generation (who have been facing the devastating impending doom of the climate apocalypse since they were teenagers, fears only interrupted and compounded by the covid apocalypse as they became young adults) checking out for their mental health?” then the real question is: jfc why the fark are they not ALL doing it?
Not particularly. But I wouldn't call choosing a non-standard path and enjoying life "giving up". I'd call it smart.
I honestly think he will do this for a bit, figure himself out and end up happier. I had a bit of a quarter life crisis after finishing my degree. I chose not to use it and worked a few different jobs, had a couple of kids and now finally seem to be figuring out myself at 32. The hard thing was all the pressure I got from other people to use it. Leave me alone, be supportive and let me figure myself out.
I am nearing 30, have a PhD, paying off a PPOR, worked in what can be considered socially respected and financially quite well-paid roles: I am nevertheless still figuring it out. For reference, it is very common for sociologists and economists to define younger adulthood up to the age of 35 nowadays. I can also say, based on my own academic research, the 'figuring out' stage of life is protracted for younger people because the market is saturated with highly-educated, mobile individuals and this creates a competitive environment that feeds burnout. Everyone I know is usually overqualified for their job, have skills/experience exceeding those required for their roles, and still have to argue tooth and nail to get any form of permanence or a role that provides a financial foothold to weather rising costs and downward pressure on wages (in real terms). If you want a house, a family, and a yearly international holiday, you have to compete with a far bigger market. It is demoralising and can make you check out as a defence mechanism. You also adapt, or what can feel like compromise, and that itself can be dispiriting vis-a-vis the relative accessibility of these things for previous generations.
>For reference, it is very common for sociologists and economists to define younger adulthood up to the age of 35 nowadays. As a mature age uni student majoring in economics and sociology... yes.
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I worked before and during my PhD to supplement stipend - also refused to go beyond the funding period (3.5 years). I also have a partner, which always helps. Our finances have always been 50/50 including the 20 per cent deposit. Live within our means and a property (apartment) that did not over leverage us. Still working life out. It is all daunting. Having a family? Who even knows. Long-term work stability? Look, one cannot really bank on that (at least, it is far harder to given the constant squeeze that comes around every other year).
Am 40. Still trying to figure it out. Needed to hear this today. Thank you.
I mean, if you were able to afford to have *multiple children* while "figuring yourself out" then your situation is already very much not typical. Many people who have full-time steady jobs still can't afford children, let alone people who are actively career-hopping.
Yes I went a similar way. I have colleagues now about 5yrs younger doing same as me and perhaps better technically but they lack certain people skills and have never travelled, been politically active, gotten into arts etc. I dont regret taking the scenic route. I see a bigger picture now. What if one has the same experience later, but then with too much responsibility?
Upvoting for "the scenic route" - definitely going to reuse that phrase.
What did you end up working in? I'm struggling with this now, I dropped out of uni because I just wasn't interested in IT anymore. Now I just feel aimless, because I don't have any skills that could land me a proper job. I can compose myself well in an interview because I have worked all over retail, but I seriously don't know what I want to pursue career wise. I'm starting to think as long as I find a job I feel comfortable doing (like admin or something), that can support me living out of home and fund my hobbies while still putting money in the bank is all I'll need to be happy. Wish I was someone that could've been like "I want to be a lawyer!" but that just ain't me I think
Hey regis, I remember envying people who knew at such a young age that they wanted to be a lawyer/doctor/accountant etc.. until i started my career and realised so many of these people are just faking it/forcing themselves to believe that. Only way to know if you like something is to do it, otherwise it's all just imagination, you don't truly know what the work will be like. In terms of not knowing what you want to pursue career wise is completely normal, a common piece of advice you'll hear is follow your passion, that's useful if you know what your passion is and that it pays a living wage. However if you don't, just know that passion also tends to follow skill, so just find things that you have a vague interest in and you are willing to learn and get better at. Also realise that this might change over time and that's fine, we lucky live in a time now where people change careers frequently. Best of luck friend
The "rat race" has never been worth it. Guy has a job that covers his needs. Why is that framed as some sort of a problem or "giving up" or not being enough?
That’s a very good point. He does live a very fulfilled life at the moment. Filling his time with genuine interests. Makes me actually think the people stuck in the office chasing material goods are the ones that may be the suckers here
They are. Imagine working 60 hours a week to get the crumbs from somebody being rich, turning 55, looking back at the last 30 years and accomplishing nothing for yourself. No positive memories. A massive bundle of stress. No achievements outside of somebody else’s workforce. I’d kill myself.
The aussie dream is dead. Buried in negative gearing and exorbitant housing prices.
Housing is a rigged game, to the benefit of the older generations at the expense of the younger generations, all bought about by extremely poor government policy over several decades. I sometimes feel the same way as this guy.
Some of the older generation missed out too, my parents never bought their own home and now they're retiring you see how much it hurts them to realise they're never going to. You always think you have more time and nobody could have predicted how crazy expensive it would get.
People predicted it. If you read property investment books in the 90s as my old man made me do, I used to laugh at the proposed predictions regarding house prices and now that we're here, its no laughing matter
Did they happen to predict what happens next?
Central Banks raise rates, mortgage payments go up, companies cut back on spending, people lose jobs, miss payments, try to sell their homes, house prices fall, homes get repossessed.. Then central banks lower rates and banks start lending more, home prices rise and they sell their fresh supply of newly repossessed homes. The same scam has been happening for decades but the prices keep going higher cyclically and the value of our currencies keep going lower. Eventually there will be hyperinflation but maybe not this time. Tbh we have to end central banks but we’ve had them for so long that everybody thinks there’s no other way.
Na we ain’t giving up we just have the pride to know what is a healthy balance and enjoy our lives while we’re young no matter what the man wants. Working all day 5 days a week should not be normal. How many people on their death bed has said oh I wish I worked harder when I was young?
Never understand the people who take pride in being cucked by a job 5 days a week. "It gives me purpose"....eww. I feel sorry for people who say that deranged crap. I would rather lay on the floor 9 hours a day than go into an office 8-5 5 days a week. The fact we tolerate it actually makes me think we are all just really stupid
That’s a very good point. Sometimes we do need to learn to work less.
I worked in oncology and palliative care for 10 years. Saw hundreds of deaths. Zero people said to me "I wish I worked harder/had more money ". At least half said regretted; Spending too little time with children (while making money) Spending too long at work Putting aside enjoyment until they retired (died and didn't get to do it) Not living a life that was more enjoyable
The game has to be worth the candle. Those at the top want to keep squeezing? They will reap the consequences. There are other ways to stop the machine… simply get off. Pretty soon this latest generation of fat cats will realise what their parents learnt - the slaves only keep the machine running if you feed them comforts and provide each generation with a little more. Tip the scales too far because of your greed, and it doesn’t take long for the rebellion to bubble up. And history teaches us it can take very different forms, it doesn’t always have to be obvious and bloody.
More options out there for sure. I have friends who work FIFO in mining 2 weeks on 2 weeks off, but now job share. 2 weeks on 6 off, plus 2 weeks annual leave, it’s like 5 x 2 week swings a year for 80-90k a year. The rest of the time the surf and travel and do side gigs in carpentry and other things they have as hobbies or using their skills. Not exactly a terrible way to live!
Sound pretty much perfect to me, especially being fifo they can choose to live somewhere relatively low cost
They did the hard yards for a few years and paid off 70% ish of a mortgage, then switched
I am this exact person. HDs in every subject on my HSC, top university, great job paying big money.. and then I realised (too late) that it’s just not worth the effort. 30 now, sold my soul in my 20s only to realise that I’ll never be as successful as my grandparents despite working 100x harder. Why sell my soul to the company store when I can find some work life balance and enjoy my life? My grandfather got a government job straight after leaving school in year 9 and then a government pension, worked the same job from 16 until he retired. Owned 2 houses on a single salary, raised 7 kids, and got to retire at 55 and live off the same salary but as a government pension until the day he died.
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It was an amazing deal, one I wish still existed. At 10% super earning 100K per year, I’d be putting 10K in a year. 10 years of work for my super is worth less than what my grandfather got every year from 55 until his death. My grandfather lived until he was in his mid 80s, 30 years of government pension. I’d have to work hundreds of years for my super to be even close to equivalent to that.
I don’t think many on those schemes realise how fortunate they are to not have to save and plan for their own retirement. It’s a huge responsibility and exhausting - makes it harder to take risks.
It’s not giving up early, it’s just the fact that most people can’t save the insanely high deposit needed for a house then let alone pay the mortgage off, whilst being told by parents to just “save money” whilst rent payments are more a week than their mortgage is a month.
You work to live, not live to work. What’s the point of earning millions if your entire life focus is on earning the money instead of enjoying it? Can’t enjoy the money when you’re dead so may as well enjoy your life while you’re alive.
Especially when - even after sacrificing your soul to the devil - you don’t even get rich from it.
I see this a lot with the very smart. They do the smart job that they were smart enough to get into - that everyone expects them to do with all their potential, but not the job they actually wanted to do. The trick is to follow your passion when it comes to your career, otherwise you’ll feel like a paid slave.
This is actually more true than people imagine - quite a number of academic high-fliers get pressured into a small number of very specific and potentially very lucrative professions. Medical (medicine, dentistry etc.) related degrees and law being the two most prominent.
I’m 35 and just burning out seeing home ownership become more and more distant. I work in the arts (technical) and I’m pretty successful for the small market, but no bank would ever give me a mortgage and houses are preposterously expensive. So I get it, why the hell am I working myself to death when I could be taking it easier and being less stressed? I’m currently on the verge of a nervous breakdown. What’s the damn point?
I'm not young and I feel this way too. r/antiwork is also full of this sentiment (in fact Americans have it far, far worse). The social contract is indeed broken. Greed and sociopathy are winning. There is no god but money.
I’m 23 and have just left my marketing job to go back to retail. I couldn’t handle the stress to the point that I ended up in hospital with chest pains. I was taken in an ambulance from the office and my boss cracked it when I told him I wouldn’t be working the next day. When I reported sexual harassment from a coworker to HR they refused to acknowledge it and my manager told me I should just be grateful it wasn’t worse. I wouldn’t go back to that kind of a job for all the money in the world.
Damn it sounds like you've had the worst time. Good thing you're out of there. That kind of environment would crush anyone's spirits over time. I have a friend who was earning double in insurance, but he came back to retail because he hated it and thought "you know what, I enjoy my retail job". I tried working in reception once and it was DREADFUL. Once I came back to my retail job I really appreciated how flexible it was and that I actually get paid well considering. Just felt like returning to a safe space. However it's always on my mind that if I stay in this midset too much I will get TOO comfortable staying in retail, and not try to pursue anything more valuable. I dont know, this shit harddddddddd
28-years-old, have countless mates who have done the exact same thing. One couple I know had saved for years for a house deposit then reassessed things and decided they'd rather travel the world than overpay for a shitty apartment in the city they were born in (Sydney). They've been gone for a year and say it's the best choice they've ever made
I'm sort of the opposite, where I did my travelling and living overseas in my very early 20s and now I'm quite content to live in an apartment. I think if I hadn't then maybe I'd be itching to leave, but while it's enjoyable short term it's not a sustainable lifestyle for most people if you intend to come back. Moving overseas permanently is a different matter.
PhD, Masters, important field, I've maxed out progression at \~75k. don't blame them, its truth.
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I wonder how many of the “pull yourself up by your bootstraps” crowd in the comments calling this kid lazy got 99 ATARs and did well enough at uni to land a role at a top tier law firm
It reminds me of this quote by George Carlin “business owners want obedient workers that are smart enough to run the machines and do the paperwork but just dumb enough to passively accept shittier jobs”. People that buy into the “bootstraps” notions are often in the passive group and ignore structural issues. https://youtube.com/shorts/PIL-rOqlUog?feature=share
In Japan, there are thousands of young people who never leave home and it called Hikikomori. It refers to the recent state of middle and high school students who drop out of school, and withdraw completely from society. A similar thing is happening in China. People are not having children as a form of protest. The social contract is broken. They are not getting richer and are expected to work 996 (9am-to 9pm x 6 days a week). He is a sensible person.
Yeah, quit teaching to become a cleaner. The works.not worth it and it won't get me a house in a fair amount.of time. Been great for my mental health and quality of life.
Yes, I've worked for 20 plus years in mental health and I've seen that pattern developing over the last 5 years or so, they're completely pessimistic about any chance of being financially independent, so they're prioritising their lifestyles instead. Have to say I admire them, but I doubt our capitalist culture will be so merciful
My immigrant dad bought a house and supported a family of 4 on a factory worker pay. You need at least 3 to 4 factory salaries to buy a house now...
As an Aussie youth (23) I see this a bunch, seems like society switched from the carrot (work and you can afford a home and support a family, to the stick (work or starve). Overall it seems like an overwhelming feeling of hopelessness, we're gonna be the ones that are gonna be left with cleaning up the world with shit all cash after the boomers are done amassing their record profits while not giving a shit about the environment they're destroying
In the 60s John B. Calhoun, an ethologist, decided to do a series of experiments involving populations of mice and rats. The idea was to see what kinds of behaviors might emerge if he put different pressures on the rodents. The most famous of these series of experiments was "Universe 25". In Universe 25, a gigantic cage was built, capable of housing up to 25,000 mice comfortably. And those mice would be in a utopia, with no limits to access to food, water, warmth, shelter, and entertainment/environmental enrichment. The only thing limited in U25 was *physical space*. As the population grew, there would be less and less room per mouse. So they put a few families of mice into U25 and waited, allowing them to breed as mice do. What happened? Long before they reached the estimated possible population in U25, *mouse society collapsed and the mice died out*. The max population ended up being only 2,200 mice, far less than the estimated possible population of U25. And the way that mouse society collapsed, well, it *very closely resembles some current problems in our own*, including some mice claiming sections of the cage for themselves, well guarded by loyal and strong male mice, so that they could waste their days just grooming each other. Mice on the floor of the cage, excluded from the penthouses, became to turn into cannibals, engaged in random and serious violence with each other, and all but stopped attempting to have children or raise families. Sounds a bit like rising crime, school shootings, and Millennials opting not to have babies, does it not? Based on what he saw in U25, Dr. Calhoun came up with the concept of a [Behavioral sink](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Behavioral_sink) to explain that even with access to infinite material resources, mammal populations will still collapse and regress, sometimes to extinction, from sheer social pressure of being exposed to too many bodies in too small a space. As Calhoun himself described it: >Many [female rats] were unable to carry pregnancy to full term or to survive delivery of their litters if they did. An even greater number, after successfully giving birth, fell short in their maternal functions. Among the males the behavior disturbances ranged from sexual deviation to cannibalism and from frenetic overactivity to a pathological withdrawal from which individuals would emerge to eat, drink and move about only when other members of the community were asleep. The social organization of the animals showed equal disruption. The common source of these disturbances became most dramatically apparent in the populations of our first series of three experiments, in which we observed the development of what we called a behavioral sink. The animals would crowd together in greatest number in one of the four interconnecting pens in which the colony was maintained. As many as 60 of the 80 rats in each experimental population would assemble in one pen during periods of feeding. Individual rats would rarely eat except in the company of other rats. As a result extreme population densities developed in the pen adopted for eating, leaving the others with sparse populations. Calhoun ran this experiment over 50 more times using mice, and every time it ended the same - segregation of the "beautiful ones" who lived in luxurious spaces separated from the main throng and spent all of their time on grooming and play (but never mating nor raising young, basically becoming asexuals that liked to cuddle a lot) as the throng turned to cannibalism of their children despite plenty of food being around and extreme outbreaks of wanton violence. Rats, however, managed to avoid such a fate in a few of the experiments. This is because rats tend to form clans, and compete against the other clans. At a certain point the rats reached an equilibrium - too much growth would trigger wars between the clans, which reduced the population down enough to be stable again. In other words, we don't want a Star Trek utopia, we want a Warhammer 40k future, because constant warfare is a means to release simmering aggression caused by too-large populations.
One of the largest wealth transfers in Australian history took place during Covid and it’s happening again now with the cost of living inflation issues. Australia fast loosing its egalitarian status. I don’t blame young people for giving up.
This mentality is the exact problem. The standard go to school, go Uni, get job, get married, have kids then pay off mortgage is not NORMAL. There’s so much more to life and younger generation are realising that a lot of things their parents groomed them with does not necessarily mean happiness.
The only way to win, is to stop playing.
The social contract *is* breaking down, dude. Trust in institutions is low, education is increasingly a meaningless pipeline into dehumanizing work for less and less fair pay, and our brains are so melted by decades of STEMlord "productivity"-centric discourse that even art is being taken over by AI in the hopes that we can produce even more. It's not that I think The Youth should check out, but we didn't provide them with the tools to navigate this world we had a hand in creating. We just gave them consumerism and technology and expected them to work it out.
There's something deeply wrong with Australia and it's not just limited to Australia TBH. In 1920, the median wage from a 'breadwinner' was easily enough to sustain a large family and other expenses like a home purchase. The current median wage ($80,000), you'd struggle raising a single child and a $600k apartment would take many decades to payoff with what you have remaining post-tax. I see a few major problems: 1. There are too many parasitic middlemen services that rob productivity between the purchaser and the services and goods they are acquiring. This can be banking/finance related expenses, ineffective taxation, high taxation and other things in the supply chain that unnecessarily increase the cost of goods/services. This problem is not unique to Australia. Bloat like this tends to form in established economies. 2. Australia has adopted the american suburban model of development which essentially 'ponzifies' real estate. Planning regs on density, large private open space and green wedges (much needed) means there is limited real estate to go around especially in capital cities. 3. Australia allows foreign investment in real estate and purchase via SMSF. Imagine allowing purchase through SMSF. Only those in extremely privileged positions have enough super to buy a home - imagine giving them a tax break to buy a house!. 4. Fractional reserve banking (while restricting bank runs). Fractional reserve banking allows banks to lend out money they don't have. This is then rehypothecated in the economy meaning the banks can issue more loans and earn more interest on money that doesn't actually exist. A fractional reserve of 20% means a $1 creates an additional $4 in the economy. Reducing cost of housing is the first step to re-energizing young people. Real measures are needed i.e. one property per Australian in any capital city, not this "$10k for first home owners or 5% deposit" BS. I had to live with my parents until 32 to pay off my house i bought for $500k. I am happy for this to tank 80% in value if it means real measures are brought in to fix cost of housing and real estate speculation.
This resonates. I graduated law school and decided to avoid the corporate gigs like the plague. At the time, people my age humiliated me for my decision. Lots had drunk the kool-aid and said things like "you'll never own a house" and "good luck paying the bills with your principles." Ten years later, those people still don't own houses. The reality is that the older generation lied to us continually. They said work hard and you'll get all of these rewards (house, car, kids), while ignoring that the economy had systematically changed (low wage growth, high cost, higher hours). I clued into this early when I met a few senior lawyers who hated their lives. Combining their hatred with the new economics made it very clear : pursuing that path would lead to failure. While I'm here, let me just say that people in these jobs tend to give up their hobbies, their passions, sport and political engagement. The working hours are so bad that they have no friends outside of work. I went to a friend's wedding and was the only person who didn't work for their company - that's basically a cult at that stage. Like no other friends, no hobbies, nothing. One of the first things you learn in a foreign language is: "what are your hobbies?" In Sydney, I stopped asking that question because it made people angry. They were resentful that I prioritized having hobbies and a life outside work. The systematic condescension and rudeness I faced for my choices pushed me out of the country. Living overseas and have never been happier.
Don't blame him at all, it's like playing monopoly. The boomers have had 20 x turns ahead and taken away the collect $200 every year. It's not a fair game.. government policy past 20 years also helps these boomers. What's the point?
Not just the $200. They also bough Mayfair, Park Lane every other property on the board. Oh but they left us the run down Old Kent Road, but it now costs $1.5m.
When you go to jail and you're happy just to not have to pay rent..
Previous generations put up with shitty workplaces and jobs they hated 'because thats what you do'. The current generation have the balls to say nope, im not doing that, i want to actually enjoy life. Will be interesting times ahead.
25 here, I recently got promoted to a remote job that allows me to work/live overseas. I am absolutely giving up on ever owning anything down here and will try my luck in SEA or somewhere in Japan. Cost of living is just too unsustainable here and I just don’t see it getting better. My story is not uncommon at all and many of my coworkers in Sydney are seriously having/wanting to move to a cheaper city like Melbourne or Perth and at the most extreme leave the country like myself.
25 here as well, grew up in Perth and it's crazy to see the real estate pricing over east. I've just bought a modern 2x2 unit for $245k, hard to believe they go for double or more over there. feel hard for them.
Holy shit, didn't expect to be dealt a existential crisis when i logged onto Reddit, the future seems soo horribly bleak for my generation.
Yes I've heard of this. It's more common in people with high aptitude for critical thinking rather than intelligence, however they're probably correlated. A guy I knew had one subject to go before graduating his doctorate in neurosurgery, only to decide to give up and work in a bank call centre 3 days a week. His ATAR was 99+. My ATAR was 96.x and I quickly lost my soul in the first years of working in corporate. If I could go back in time I would have lived out of a van. I found intelligent young people who thrive in the rat race just have very strict parents they don't want to disappoint.
Bank call centre is so much worse than a corporate job. Every second of your time tracked and montiored. No thanks.
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Not sure what a doctorate in neurosurgery is, you can't even get yo neurosurgery until you've done a bachelors, med school, residency, surgical specialisation... that's 20years of post highschool study. Phd in neuroscience however makes more sense, I can see that kinda making sense. But damn, neurosurg and neurosci are *not* the same lol
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Doing only what the job demands is historically called “work to rule,” AKA staying exactly within the contract while you continue to work. It’s nothing like quitting at all, and framing it as a form of quitting is propaganda.
Hi from Canada. Seems to be a trend everywhere. When the cost of living keeps rising like crazy and employers don't seem to care about us as people, it removes any kind of incentive to strive for more. You can't get blood out of a stone. In my personal example, my employer announced at the beginning of the year that we made 45 million net profit. We're a company of less than 150 people. Amazing right? Nah it was "good but we didn't meet our target". We've had improvement every single quarter for the past 5 years. Only a select few are seeing profit share from those earnings. Management proceeds to get on our case about increasing productivity. Morale drops like a brick. At some point people realize that no matter how hard they work, it's not going to either be appreciated or amount to a life our parents had, so you might as well cut back and actually enjoy your life. We could die tomorrow and our employers would replace us in a week. Why spend the best years of your life slaving away for someone else's gains? My parents are both around retirement age. They worked really hard their entire lives and had respectable high paying careers. Now that they're in their 60's their medical issues are preventing them from enjoying their time to the fullest. They lost a good portion of their savings to a scam which also didn't help. They're back to square one but they only have me to fall back on. Life can change suddenly at any point. We should look out for each other and live life today, not some day off in the future. There's just no guarantees in life so it's good to smell the roses Edit: also with all that said, it's not a bad thing to strive for more or work hard. It just depends on what a person wants for themselves. Right now things just don't seem equal in the worker/employer relationship
Average lawyer pay according to seek is 85k to 105k a year which is not much if you live in city.
Yeh lawyers get paid wayyyy less than people think.
And they have to buy expensive suits for work.
That’s pretty brave of him. I think a lot of us think about just dropping it all but it’s way harder to actually commit to that.
Pretty hard to go to work without a goal. If you can't buy a house, what's the point of going to work. Live fast do fun things. Suicide is a easy retirement plan when the body starts to fail.do the fun things while your young instead of 60+
I'm 30, in the same sort of boat but hanging in there because I feel my 'obligations' require me to do so. It is bullshit though. I'll never own a house, I'll never retire early. It's hard enough to find a rental with a reasonable sub-30min commute to work let alone find the motivation to do anything I enjoy in my limited downtime.
If the smart ones are giving up, that's a warning sign. Seriously though, I'm 30, modest savings but bluntly, living on a granny flat at my grandparents farm where i help out, and work nights full-time, which i just do what i can, if i work normally, I get whipped for not doing enough. But if i work hard, i get whipped for whatever was missed anyway. I have absolutely no desire to move up. I'd love a house, but bluntly i see it so unobtainable it's not worth stressing about, and it's annoying especially because I have a sister, who due to being part aboriginal, can get 0% interest loans with gov assistance, and used it to full extent with her husband's mining supervisor income, they have 4 houses, and has zero understanding that others don't get the opportunities she has. Compound this with a mother who doesn't get it either and it leaves me avoiding family interaction because it comes up constantly. Yet still i see said husband, he's the same age as me, yet is utterly crippled with back and joint problems from 12 years of backbreaking labour, and his worry is even in the short term future, he can't keep it up. Least my grandparents do understand somewhat, grandpa sees the news about housing, shakes his head and mentions he put three kids through school and could still afford a house while his wife looked after the kids. He has no idea how anyone is supposed to afford it today.
Ohh...you referenced the social contract!! The Australian dream Yes not only is it broken, young people have to pay for the generation before them and the disabled. Much more than previous generations. He shouldn't give up. He is talented. He should have moved countries. That's what I did/am doing. Surprised he didn't change the playing field... oh well
Exactly. I now live with my German wife in a middle sized city in Germany. Couldn’t be happier. Sydney, Australia was my home until early 30s. Can’t compare. Quality of life MUCH better here. Might have something to do with the whole economy not revolving around a Ponzi housing scheme.
Careful! People don't tend to like the suggestion that there are other places as good as or better than Australia. Reality is though. Australia is like one big mining town. You're paid extra to compromise on a lot of quality of life and just work hard. Problem is a lot never get to enjoy the extra. It just gets eaten up.
Sorry that young people don’t wanna work full time and slave away their life for no fun. I’m only 23 and was an essential through the pandemic and I was underpaid for the work we did and didn’t get to spend any money on going out cause we couldn’t leave our houses. Plus he could also have health issues and no one is willing to listen to him. He may still be feeling bad/burnt out. This life also doesn’t have constantly be doing a bunch of things all the time either. He could be filling his time with hobbies too.
It's good people are disconnecting from a broken system and reclaiming their lives, late stage capitalism!
Former lawyer here. Yes that is true. You work as a lawyer. In your graduate years you hope to come a full unrestricted practitioner. Then after that you work to become an Associate or SA. Salary for the first 5 years range from 70000 to 150000. Then you’re stuck at SA for a long time. Sure you will get bonuses and perks but you won’t be Partner for a while. With Partners a salaried one will earn somewhere between 200-300k. Good luck trying to get equity. You’ll work like a dog and will be pissed on going it’ll happen. By that time you’ll be practising for 10-15 years minimum And you’ll likely not have seen your kids, your gf/bf and probably working on coffees or lines of coke. Welcome to law bitches.
There’s a page on Instagram with a guy that interviews people of all ages (mostly older) and asks them what they prioritise younger they realise today is not actually that important. You know most say? Money. We prioritise money and don’t focus on enjoying life as a youth and spending time with family/friends. You can always make more money, you can’t buy back time and being young! Experiences mean more than buying a 3 bed house, being “stuck” in the rat race. How boring. If I die at 35 from cancer, 45 by being in a car accident, 70 by a fall or 90 by old age - I don’t want to regret not enjoying my time on earth because I prioritised the rat race.
The lieing flat movement in china has come here to Australia
Sounds kinda like burn out?
I'm 41, I did similar back in 2009, decided to chase my photography after receiving a redundancy from a high level IT Management role. I have zero regrets, I also have very little chance of buying a house, I was going to buy in 2020, then 2020 happened.
It happens before every great social upheaval like the cultural revolution, as well as every civilizational collapse in history. Birth rates collapse, depression rates surge, people stop believing official narrative and lose faith in corrupt leadership structures. The endless gas lighting of our leaders stops working. Youth give in, opt out. Start to organise and protest once they get part the 'existential depression's phase, and graduate to the existential rage phase. This is why all the political elites are phasing in systematic social media censorship and soon to be age walls. When the host culture fails they know the youth will seek out or create a counter culture. This means the elites may be held accountable for all they have done. They need to crack down on all spaces where young people organise, or they are going to lose everything. Get ready for satanic panics, moral panics, and a whole lot of emotional hook propaganda, as they try to convince us to give up our rights without too much of a struggle. We have studies the last three generations of people aren't getting more Consetvative as they age, so all the 'Anti woke' and other insane propaganda they use to control the population will stop working once the boomers pass on. When this happens we have to be ready to push. It is one of the few windows that exist for real, genuine change. Those few periods you can affect things. The great Churn, when old Ideology and those who pandered it are thrown out, and a new age begins. When this happens you also have to be wary of Narcissistic or Psychopathic leaders trying to fill the vacuum. The last thing we need is a repeat of the cultural revolution, with all those people falling under the sway of gurus and Influencers. We can't let it be the Andrew Tates and Shapiros.
I noticed this trend 20 years ago while working in investment banking. Young research analysts choosing to opt out after a few years rather than climb the corporate ladder. Running off to be yoga teachers or whatever… I kind of went that way myself after 15 years in a corporate job: I opted out and chose sex work instead. So if super smart people are starting to notice that late stage capitalism is failing us, it warms my heart. These smart people also seem to have the option of living at home whereas people from disadvantaged backgrounds might not be so fortunate. I think more people than we realise understand that the social contract is broken, but they are chained to the wheels of labour.
In the 70s the young ones gave up, smoked dope and protested war with sex, drugs and rockNroll... and today we call them rich boomers.
the future was stolen from these people, work hard, strive for no return, the guy is smart enough to see society is offering a bum deal. get a million dollar mortgage which you will be enslaved to for ever and never own the asset. BTW my generation, X, did the same thing
They got told that the standard path was uni > excellent job > the Aussie dream, and then when they got to the end of uni, they were launched into a financial crisis, a housing crisis, a climate crisis, war, food insecurity, and a world that doesn't give a shit. They aren't giving up, they're disillusioned and grieving the life they WANTED and sacrificed for the life they were told they wanted. It's been going on for 30 years.
Last year I quit my decently well paying job as a qa chemist on the Northern Beaches to spend all my savings on solo backpacking Europe for 7 months. I have nothing to my name now but at I'm living my best life in the Netherlands now, having such a great time here
ʞn ǝɥʇ uı ǝɹǝɥ puǝɹʇ ǝɯɐs sıɥʇ ƃuıǝǝs ɯɐ I ɥqʇ
It’s happened in the US for a while, and is becoming prevalent even in Asian cultures where usually saving face and diligence is king. Eg China and [“lying flat”](https://www.bbc.com/news/business-60353916.amp) I’ve worked my way up the ladder in consulting, working crazy hours and super stressful, and I can’t buy a place within 20kms of where I grew up in Sydney. And that’s downsizing to a townhouse rather than my parents place on 700sqm. A teacher and a builder. I earn more than double what they used to earn combined. I saw it in the consulting world where people just left for passion projects considering it not worth it. The most prescient example was old school friends who are both doctors, couldn’t buy a place sensibly within 30mins drive of where they are both rostered. They’d be on over $500k between them, but then deduct tax and also would have to spend time slogging away for a decent deposit. People look at the Simpsons as a good example of a 90s lower middle class family. Read someone had calculated that outside the major US cities and assuming you aren’t in a “no man’s land” crime wise like Gary Indiana that lifestyle would cost over $200k, something out of reach of the vast majority - you basically need to be in tech or one of the top law firms (basically impossible job to get unless you went to Ivy League) to approach that. Most degrees now are just a ticket to play in the job stakes. Here’s pretty bad with HECS and education now bring about export dollars, it’s worse in the US wheee you’re saddled with $100ks of debt that can’t be extinguished via bankruptcy for a degree that’ll get you a job paying $12/hr. Everyone’s realised we’ve been sold out. The maths doesn’t work anymore. People are opting out. Doesn’t help in Sydney where certain people don’t seem to work, drive around in Mercedes G wagons, and it’s obvious that the secret ingredient to afford these things and a half decent house is crime.
Why play a game you know is rigged? Like, sure, you can get lucky and still win, but at what cost?
It takes hard work and intelligence to realise that spending your entire life grinding away for the sake of other people's profits simply because "its what you do" makes no sense.