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BNEIte

It's more prevalent in non Anglo communities Multi generational family under one roof And acquire investment properties on the side


michaeljanos

I'm in my 60s and what happened in the Greek/Italian families I grew up with was that children when they got married generally got given and house/unit and a job if they needed one when they got married. Because they didn't have to pay 30 years of interest payments they were pretty well off when their own kids (and nieces and nephews) came of age they could do the same


PM-me-fancy-beer

In return, later the parents move in with you and you look after them the remainder of their lives. In my rural anglo town, turning 18 is more like a baby turtle hatching, you bugger off ASAP and go live your own life. Maybe in the same town you grew up in, but you definitely don't stay with your parents. Moving to Melbourne was a culture shock when I'd go visit friends and we'd hang out in the common area with their parents a few metres away


chupchap

LOL at the baby turtle analogy


BNEIte

Yeah I had a Serbian mate who was in a similar scenario As an Anglo myself I was out by 18 šŸ¤£ along with my siblings Not being moddy coddled has its advantages, forces you to think outside the box, and I've done alright In saying that, I'll definitely be giving my kids a leg up. Funny how things end up


oakstreet2018

ā€œHard times create strong men, strong men create good times, good times create weak men, and weak men create hard times.ā€


[deleted]

".... and hard men create good times."


-V8-

"It's better to be a warrior in a farming village than a farmer in war".


Ok-Train-6693

molly coddled


BNEIte

There you go I've been saying it wrong my whole life šŸ˜¬


[deleted]

All good, I thought the phrase was ā€˜intensive purposesā€™ until more recently than I care to admitā€¦


WrongQuesti0n

Italian here. Can confirm. This is especially prevalent in smaller cities or in areas where people are more "traditionally minded". Unfortunately there are also families (especially among the poorly educated urban working class or among the aspirational urban upper-middle class) who squander their money on status purchases and consumerism and fail to properly invest in the future of the family. Their children end up being very disadvantaged as a result, since this is a country where salaries are low, real estate taxes are extremely low, rents are high and real estate is relatively expensive. In other terms, it is extremely hard to buy a home with the low salaries we get, but once you have one (or more) you don't pay a lot of taxes on them and can keep them for generations even with a low paying job or without even working.


insertnamehere2016

What happens if you donā€™t get married though? Do you just have to live life as the economically disadvantaged black sheep of the family?


ILoveDogs2142

I mean, logically I can see an appeal there. If you buy a PPOR first, you burden yourself with $2,500 monthly mortgage repayments. If you buy an IP first, you receive rental income to cover most or all of the mortgage repayments, and then you become entitled to a range of tax deductions. Much less pressure, less stress, the only downside being you live at home with parents. Do you think this is a cultural thing?


BNEIte

I certainly think it's across all communities But just more prevalent in non Anglo communities I think it reduces financial stress but would increase familial stress šŸ¤£ Yin and Yang ā˜Æļø there's generally always an offsetting outcome


spideyghetti

Yin and yang, I see what you did there


monsteras--

It's very common in other cultures, particularly collectivist ones. But what is being brushed over is that if you continue to live at home until you're married, you have to follow your parents expectations. Which tend to be more conservative than Australian culture, especially if you're a daughter. It absolutely has financial benefits but comes with compromises and there's a lot of cultural "pressure" to remain home as well.


TheaABrown

Yeah, plenty of my uni friends from Chinese, Indian and Greek families did that, especially the girls. They generally only ā€œmoved outā€ when they got jobs overseas or interstate or got engaged.


AwakE432

Yeah but imagine living with your parents in the same house you grew up in until your 30 or 40. Miserable! Some of lifeā€™s best experiences are branching out and living on your own. It teaches you so many qualities and life lessons. I get there might be cultural things involved but what a waste of 15 years just to save a few dollars.


[deleted]

Idk it depends on the house and your parents.. I think living with mine would be pretty chill, granny flat out the back, no rent, might do it tbh šŸ˜‚


AwakE432

Yeah I was being a bit harsh. Lots of countries do this around the world so maybe there is something to be said for that. I have moved back with mine at times for personal reasons. Was a good experience.


cakivalue

I don't know mate!! A couple of my siblings moved back home and did this. They not only have more $$$ than me but they get a packed lunch and laundry done and the parents to care when they are sick, celebrate birthdays, Covid lockdown buddies etc. I'm out here branched out and doing it all on my own šŸ˜­


AwakE432

And killin it Iā€™m sure. You got this!


michaeljanos

Have 2 adult children living with me at the moment and while part of what you say is true, I think that the money they save by staying with us enables them to afford a lot of experiences they wouldn't have had tied down to a mortgage or rent. My daughter has without trying (covid lockdowns helped) almost saved enough for a deposit


AwakE432

Yeah totally. Some positives for sure. Glad thatā€™s worked out for you all.


[deleted]

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MaxMillion888

It doesn't teach you that many things. I moved out in my 30s. All it taught me was how to clean my own toilet and pay bills. Only great thing about moving out as a guy is being able to bring girls home. No questions. Financially, it is the dumbest thing to do. It is such a waste of money to move out and live alone. I consider it a huge luxury much like owning a car if you live in / near the cbd My sister is in her 40s. Single. Still lives at home. Owns two IP worth millions. I rent an apartment and own my cups. I just turned 40.


AwakE432

I forgot this is a finance sub and not a living life sub. Well you are really just shifting the financial burden from yourself over to your parents, unless you are financially contributing to the equivalent of you living there. I imagine most donā€™t do this. People move overseas, get into long term relationships, move interstate for work, go in a year long bender in Asia. Lots of ways they moving out can be a really positive step. It also teaches people the realities of the real cost of living.


MaxMillion888

Well living life about experiences. I agree with you. But there is scrubbing toilets is an experience and there is playing with elephants in Chiang mai experiences. Living at home I'm arguing gives you more of the former than the latter. It isn't really shifting that much of a financial burden. House is paid for. And utilities are subsidised because they are over 65. Like I said. I've moved out but my parents keep bringing up the fact it is a waste of money and telling me to move back. There are absolutely differences in culture here. One isn't more right than the other. Just need to appreciate there are differences that lead to different outcomes Moving out is great. But it comes with trade-offs


Willy_tanner

Your sister owns millions worth of IPā€™s bit does she have a life? A partner? Money and owning property isnā€™t everything.


MaxMillion888

She is very happy. Travels a few times a year.


spiritualblackkitty

Just curious if anyone could list all possible tax deductions of an IP here.


potatodrinker

Just went through these for my tax return: Bank interest and fees (big one), strata, council, repairs and appliance replacement, agent fees, land tax, depreciation (huge for a new building, like as high as 12-15k "losses" in the early years). Add them all up across multiple properties, its how high flying six figure jobs can end up paying tax as if the person was on an averageish 50-60k salary


Password_isnt_weak

Man I feel like this a cheat code I have never understood


PubicFigure

2.5k/ month? What are you borrowing? 10 bucks?


silversurfer022

What are you on about? That's a 450k-500k loan. Pretty standard for single income.


AdHead9375

My unit is 1000 a month


AwakE432

Even more perplexing when they finally move out at 30 into a house they purchased a few blocks away from their parents house. Got to get help with the kids I guess.


Late-Audience5698

It's funny because that literally describes my situation. I would never even imagine living in a different suburb to my (or wife's) parents - unless we moved interstate or overseas. But even that would take serious thought before moving. Family (and related friends) are by far the most important aspect of the decision.


ZephkielAU

>It's funny because that literally describes my situation. Literally mine too. Except I'm helping the parents with the grandkids (not my kids).


player_infinity

It's the norm around these "traditionalist" households from non-Anglo backgrounds that the family unit isn't the nuclear family, it's the family based on male lineage for multiple generations under one roof unless it is feasible otherwise. I think this applies to most traditionalist ethnic groups. The whole point of intergenerational living is that the oldest in the line is married in their 20s-30s, and live in the house of the male lineage family. Women usually go off to the other family line. Men usually stick to their family line. There are always some exceptions, but this is the general rule. When I say "line", I mean homes that are tied to the male lineage landholdings. Having kids in the same home you share with your parents is the default. First sets of grandchildren get taken care of in the family home. Depending on finances, a second or more child gives grandchildren under the family home, but there is usually a quick limit where either you build another house on the land available to the family, or find more land, which is also a family exercise. But if finances are constrained, you just have lots of people living in each bit of space, if you're quite poor. But in the case outlined by OP, it's just a guy living with parents until they find a partner, and guys often can stretch that age longer. The family would then make a decision on where they live, and often that looks like they buy the property for them, but they don't see it like that. It's the family buying another house for the family to grow. Independent living isn't seen as conducive to this family unit, which includes multiple generations. Everything is seen through this lens. Nowadays there is obviously adaptations of this model, especially in Western countries. Once you marry, you might leave the family home, even if you're the first to get married and first to have grandchildren. Now there are obvious conditions where people break this. Families and children moving overseas or far from the big family home for work, or education. To adapt to this, you basically either try to form a new family unit in another country, which is like making satellites to the original, or it looks more like a nuclear family model, where it is adapted to the West in particular. This can be a cause of dissonance with ethnic families in other countries. For example, a child may decide they want to live outside of home before they are married, despite not "needing" to for education or work (i.e they study or work in the same city as their parents). This is not normal in the traditionalist model, but if the children value independence or convenience more than sustaining the traditional model, then they will move out. At that point they basically switch to the more Western model, but this is expected to be temporary. Renting a place is much more common in the Western model, for example. There are adaptations of course, like once you get married and have kids, you are expected to settle in a home and buy, where your parents essentially have the backstop of eventually living with you once they get too old (retirement homes with full-time care is anathema to the traditionalist model) or move back in with parents, usually with significant help from family. Your parents are expected to help with child-care and child-rearing, in exchange for taking care of them in age, at least being around in the family home. It's why so many "traditional" or "ethnic" homes have elderly members living with them in the home with them, at least at the point where they start struggling to live on their own in the empty nest. If an elderly member is ever living in a retirement home, basically the traditionalist model is completely switched to a Western model, but that elderly member if they are from that traditionalist model would likely be extremely hostile to that idea.


OrangeFilth

He can enjoy financial freedom all he wants, but imo there is no greater freedom than being able to walk around your home naked.


Essembie

I also enjoy walking around your home naked.


yeahbroyeahbro

There is no greater freedom than other people walking around your home naked


babawow

Are Naked mondays officially back then?


stripeypinkpants

Genuine question, do people really walk around naked? I thought I would be doing this a lot when I first moved out but it's actually witie cold with no clothes on.


Realistic0ptimist

I donā€™t know about everyone but I definitely do after coming out the shower. Thereā€™s no need to put on pjs to go to the fridge because no one else is home but my wife. I can do laundry in the nude I can sleep in the nude without worry. Itā€™s a very liberating feeling


bregro

Your parents have seen it all before.


[deleted]

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totallynotalt345

Some people peaked early and itā€™s same same


Greeeesh

Have a friend like this, in his late 50s now and still lives with his parents, has millions in wealth from property investing over the last three decades but has no relationship and no kids. To me it is a little sad, his wealth has no purpose other than to accumulate and in 30 years he will be in the dirt. I am also concerned for his mental health when his parents pass in the next few years. He has basically become their carer.


bregro

I knew someone like that. Greek guy. They tend to stay home until (if) they marry. Well he never did and now both of his parents have died, so he's chilling in a $1+ mil property with multiple IPs that he's prob paid off.


bettingsharp

lucky dude. apart from the dead parents


Aggravating-Wrap4861

And the being alone


Goosey100

And being known as that weird Greek guy


bregro

Nah I wouldn't have wanted his life. Never left home, worked a menial job, never dated as far as I know, don't think he's a virgin though as I'm pretty sure he sees escorts. He was able to retire fairly young though (50s) with his IPs and having hardly any living expenses. It's prob not a bad life now...he spends half his time between Greece and Aus. Flies first class too.


galaxynow1

I know a guy like this in his 60s, worked hard, never held a relationship, parents passed, inherited wealth I could only dream of. Long story short, married his 20yr old co-worker, about 2 years later she broke up the relationship. Something I found out recently is she manage to convince him to transfer the parents investments in her name when they were on good terms. She is now dating the CEO of the company....


smolperson

I gotta respect the hustle of this girl. Sheā€™ll be a mid twenties millionaire with minimal effort.


redditiscompromised2

I await reading a top ten tips list from this successful millennial entrepreneur in the papers


[deleted]

Sheā€™s basically a prostitute conwoman?


x131e

No purpose? If his personal goal was to achieve financial freedom, then he has achieved that purpose. Not everyone wants to be a slave to financially support a spouse and kids.


The_Madman1

That is disgusting


[deleted]

Under your western views. It's very common for families to stick together in other countries.


defectivechive

It really depends on the relationship with the parents.


SemanticTriangle

More people in Australia believe in real estate for investment than believe in shares. Superannuation had to be made compulsory and inaccessible because Australians would not voluntarily invest in productive assets. When given access to capital, Australians squander, speculate wildly, or trade the finite pool of land around, thus increasing its price. QED.


tranbo

Super was made compulsory because people would spend it all otherwise, though investing in takeaway could be seen as investing in an unproductive asset


shakeitup2017

I love my parents but there is no way on god's green earth that I would live with them again. I bought my first home at 21 and I sold it 12 months later (it was a reno flip PPOR). Moved back in with my parents for about 6 months and couldn't wait to GTFO.


Ro141

This is natures way, you have to leave! And it doesnā€™t matter if you return to the nextā€¦I have a mate who lives with his mum...but it's OK..he got out, established himself as an adult, developed and then returned to look after her as she has MS. There is a huge difference between that and doing it for property (he's a bit ashamed of it, I keep telling him to be proud!)


Psych_FI

This is extremely cultural in my view. I don't feel ashamed about living at home and understand it's a sacrifice to get myself ahead financially forever plus get to spend more time with my family.


justin-8

Yeah, nothing shameful, I wouldnā€™t be ashamed and I did move back with my parents for about a year in my mid 20s. But I couldnā€™t wait to get out again. Love them to bits, but I donā€™t want to be around them every single day.


Psych_FI

Fair enough. I'm excited to finally get my own place but also grateful to spend with my mum / family and enjoy their company 1000 times more than 99/9% of housemates honestly. I would move for career / education or opportunities earlier though.


justin-8

Yeah I canā€™t say Iā€™d want housemates either, but Iā€™m in my mid 30s now. Living with a partner is great, never had issues with that. And as you said, moving for career/education is definitely worth it as well, not being open to it can make you miss out on some huge opportunities


[deleted]

Funnily enough its not natures way since humans rarely moved 100m away from their parents


Psych_FI

Fair - can I ask whether you have family that can help you out financially by going guarantor or lending you money. I live at home knowing as it's my parents giving me an opportunity to save and build myself a decent buffer financially in my twenties.


Ellis-Bell-

This is another scenario in this sub where the idea looks great on paper but is actually more of a sociological quandary than financial. Even if you have a stellar relationship with your parents itā€™s plain old not normal to stay with them into your 30s and 40s - total failure to launch. I donā€™t know how people can consider themselves adults without holding a gas account in their name or stocking their own pantry. I tell my single friends to run a mile from anyone who still lives with their parents.


moojo

How do you define success?


Ellis-Bell-

Tough question- but Iā€™d say independence would be a big part of it.


bbgr8grow

Why wouldnā€™t you live with them provided you had a large enough house (ideally 1 floor each)?


shakeitup2017

No thanks. I've lived either on my own or with my wife ever since I was 21 and I don't think I'd want to share with anyone else. I'd rather live in my own 1 bedroom flat than share a big house. Unless if it was some beach front mansion with a separate wing


ausjpe

Iā€™m not sure I could still live with my parents in my thirties but otherwise the decision makes sense assuming you rent and keep your expenses low. I purchased an IP first approximately 12 months ago and am loving the tax benefits so far.


Edge-son

Depends on the parents


No-Internal-1105

Can you help me understand the tax benefits? If you're claiming costs associated with the house, claiming them back at your marginal tax rate is still an outflow? The interest charged you'd have to pay back and any depreciation claimed is reduced from the cost base when selling. Am I missing something here?


Mr_Bob_Ferguson

If it is a somewhat recent build, then depreciation is the other factor that needs to be considered. Reduces your taxable income without having a negative impact on your cashflow.


No-Internal-1105

But that depreciation will reduce the cost base of the asset, so when you sell you're in the same position (depending on tax positions obviously).


SteppingSteps

Yea but ideally you'd be reducing your taxable income in your highest earning years and when you need to sell it's once you are no longer working so have 0 income so net tax liability ends up being lower.


Termsandconditionsch

The opportunity cost of having to live with parents makes it a no for me, but if it works for some people, why not.


Kruxx85

this I don't exactly understand. If there are "tax benefits" that means the property is costing you money. You bought it 12 months ago (at a peak) meaning it's going to be a very long time before you see any capital gains. So the property is costing you cash, and you aren't seeing capital gains. And thats a good thing?


onepoundfeesh

An investment property giving you tax benefits doesnt necessarily mean its costing you cash every year to hold it. Lets say you get 500/week rent = 26k yearly. Lets say your taxable expenses (interest-portion of the loan, water rates, council rates, insurance, property manager, maintenance, etc) is something like 28k. Seems like you're losing 2k per year right? Until we get to the tax return. Lets say its a fairly newish property and is getting some depreciation (say around 10k), now you're showing a loss of 2k cash, and another 10k in depreciation, totally a 12k loss. Now you're reducing your taxable income by 12k per year =(100k income nornally pays 25k~ tax, but with this deduction of 12k means you only pay tax based on 88k, which is about 18k. This means your tax return benefit from this property is 7k~) Now t goes from a 2k loss to a 5k gained after the tax benefits


Kruxx85

2 things: those depreciable assets cost you something, right? You also went from having $75k accessible cash, to $60k. Still a reduction. Could that $15k have been invested in a better way? Probably. I'm simply calling out the idea that it *always* makes sense. I'm not denying there are incentives, just that it isn't as clear cut (financially) as people seem to make out. *Especially* when the capital gains might not be there.


digglefarb

>those depreciable assets cost you something, right The depreciatiable assest is the house itself. The capital value is actually gained on the land, not the building, so you can depreciate the building itself as the house actually loses value over time. I agree with your second point though. Shares will return greater than properties 9/10 and have little upkeep in comparison to renting a property. I think if you boiled it down, you'd be way ahead if you bought shares instead of houses.


onepoundfeesh

Great explanation on the first point. Not sure if I'd agree on the second tho. If we look at averages over last 30years, shares beats property in terms of growth % (9.89% vs 6.8%) However this is where property heavily edges out shares = 100k of shares with a 9.89% yearly growth over the next 10 years is 257k. A 100k deposit with a 90% loan growing at 6.8% over next 10 years gets growth on the value of the property (1mil) and not just your deposit. So while it may get a lower growth %, in 10 years your property is worth 1.93mil. Even if you dont pay a single dollar of the loan and its still a 900k mortgage, that leaves you with 1.03mil in equity. (Yes theres stamp duty and settlement/lawyer costs for a property but the sentiment is the same) That, and also being able to draw on that equity for another deposit for another property, is a big plus. The ability to hold onto each asset is night and day of course, but thats the cost of getting access to that 10x leverage (which is where one's ability in identifying the right property plays an absolutely crucial role in their success or failure)


onepoundfeesh

True true, although I was just addressing your part about the tax benefits component. What you're saying here's a different kettle of fish. There isnt an investment in the world that always makes sense for everyone's individual situations. Big reason why people invest in property is the leverage - getting growth on 10x of your investment (from a 10% deposit on a property) is quite attractive compared to only getting growth on 1x your investment.


ausjpe

Property investment isnā€™t a 12 month thing.. itā€™ll be a 10 year hold at the very least. The repayments are serviceable and it gives me the flexibility to move wherever I like knowing itā€™s almost paying for itself.


despondantguy69

I have a coworker like this. He's 40 and he has to travel to SEA multiple times a year to go to "bars" because he is devoid of the necessary social skills to meet women.


zegzilla

It's too bad there's literally no good way to learn social skills if you're not the kind of person who just picks them up. Pickup artists are scammers and/or scummy, and the other side will just tell you to 'just be yourself' and to learn to accept being alone.


[deleted]

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My3CentsWorth

I think pick up artists you just need to take with a punch of salt. They have some valid points and you can learn from them, but you also don't want to be like them. The YouTube channel charisma on command is a more wholesome starting place.


entitledboomer

So he is a mongerer? I wouldnā€™t have anything to do with these sex tourists. Scum


infraninja

What's SEA?


lattepeach

South East Asia


Traditional_comp

He's forgetting about the huge tax free capital growth from a PPOR. its one of the biggest tax breaks in Australia.


ILoveDogs2142

Correct, but if he never sells the houses and uses equity for another deposit, there is no tax. In fact, quite to the contrary, the interest is tax deductible. Furthermore, and more significantly, owning an IP is less stressful. Owning a PPOR means you are stuffed if you lose your job or if interest rates go up. If you have an IP, interest is tax deductible and you may be able to increase the rent. Just playing devils advocate


smerkspaceship

if he never sells then he's confined to whatever he can service - unless he refinances - it really depends on what market you're in but an IP only route seems like a slow grind the PPOR route may be faster if you're targeting capital gains but then again we're making assumptions that IPs are low capital gain high yield and that PPORs are high capital gain no yeild


Jacyan

I still make use of this. It's called the 6 year rule. If you live in a property and establish it as your 'main residence' (say for 6 months), and then move out to rent/move back home, you get the next 6 years CGT free


arrackpapi

thereā€™s more to life than making money. this is the opposite end of the spectrum of people who party all the time and donā€™t have any money. Both are bad end up imo. You end up middle aged with little to no life experiences and money or no money but great memories. to each their own though I guess.


Psych_FI

Why does living at home mean you can't party? I partied hard and went clubbing at like 17/18/19 and by 21 I was pretty over the whole situation (dislike alcohol or drunk people while sober). I've always travelled due to being an immigrant and having family and family friends internationally. You can still have experiences while living at home it just means that you reduce your costs throughout the process. The only challenge I can foresee is that it can greatly impact dating and relationships - also developing your own independence. But again there is a balance.


arrackpapi

partying is one aspect of it. As you mentioned relationships and general independence are others. Yes there is a balance but living at home into your 30s imo is too far from it.


Psych_FI

I've done all those things while living at home and don't get what "general independence" means? Personally, I have the rest of my life to experience being independent once I move out and don't see what I'm missing out on except paying someone else rent - or having crappy house mates.


arrackpapi

general independence is all the things you have to do for yourself when you have to manage your own household. waiting the rest of your life to experience those things may be ok if the starting point is early, maybe even mid, 20s. 30s and beyond is too far imo. but again, to each their own. Iā€™d much rather have the independence and the freedom for the costs.


Procedure-Minimum

Let me guess, single? No girlfriend? This is kinda common.


B-Tough

I bet when he marries, him and his partner will move into one of those investment properties


smegblender

Or if I have guessed the ethnicity of OP's friend right, likely continue living with parents. This is very common among very traditional (non cosmopolitan) Indian/Chinese families, and leads to absolutely incendiary situations within the household eventually. Edit: Especially, when the partner (rightfully) eventually rails against the parental interference, it inevitably leads to a lot a lot of unpleasantness leading to ultimatums - lad would need to do a lot of growing up fast else live with parents..._alone_


SKYeXile

Whats also a cheap living solution is prison. after i murder my mother for not leaving me alone, moving out was the better choice.


Boecklin

The risk to myĀ mental health is considerably higherĀ by living at home than the financial riskĀ from a PPoR Mortgage.


Aceboy884

The idea of paying off a debt with your entire working life is not very appealing. There are many ways you can create generational wealth. Starting with a boring index fund which you have the option to stop ā€œinvestingā€ if you choose. A mortgage on the other hand is bound for life, unless plan to sell. A wise choice indeed. Personally, I think buying a property is an emotional need. Not discounting this need and there is rationality behind it. But my preference is to invest and earn enough to pay off the house. At least 50% deposit or more if possible.


fr4nklin_84

Lol ā€œbound for lifeā€


PowerJosl

Yeah what a dumb thing to say. Itā€™s in your best interest to pay off a mortgage with every cent you have extra as quickly as possible. Ideally within 5 to 10 years. If you canā€™t do that you shouldnā€™t get a mortgage anyway since you otherwise will be giving way too much money to the bank.


hiimrobbo

Sounds like a rubbish life to me but if that's what he wants good for him.


deltanine99

No capital gains on your PPOR thoughā€¦


[deleted]

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smegblender

This. Having known a few blokes like this, I'm going to have to say it's very likely OP's friend has very underdeveloped "adulting skills" - cannot cook, plan and do groceries, rely on parents for advice regarding finances etc.


Chii

you might be reading too much into it - just because they choose to live for free in parent's home, doesn't mean they can't plan, buy groceries or get their finances in order. Esp. if they already purchased several IPs, and knows to invest.


ever-right

I know people who did this and that was not true for them. Also I learned how to cook and clean *from* my parents when I lived with them. And how hard can it be to go grocery shopping lol. What's next, a lesson on how to fill up at a gas station?


DEADfishbot

Iā€™d want to live with my partner not my parents. Each to their own.


22withthe2point2

Fine if you're happy looking at yourself in the mirror everyday in your parents bathroom thinking of how much money you're making. As a migrant since my early 20s and living away for uni from 18, I personally find it embarrassing when I hear of people continuing to live with their parents into their 30s*. *if needs must, so be it. Wouldn't knock anyone for falling on hard times or tough luck, however, if you're in a position to buy investment properties - put on a pair of big boy pants and go live your own life.


Loud_Dirt2585

I will cut open my stomach and die a slow death than move back in with my parents or having a social life living under their roof. Thereā€™s so much freedom once youā€™ve experienced solo living.


Calvin1228

I try and explain the freedom of living alone to friends who want me to house share with them Once you've had the taste of freedom of living solo, its something you're never gonna give up even with friends, my social life wouldn't ever work with them living with me


beerio511

Each to their own but I like having a partner and walking naked in my house.


xoxoLizzyoxox

I know people who own multiple properties, unremarkable, still live at home. Rent helps pay any mortgages and they help their mum with bills etc and now they are very well off. I told my kids to stay at home and buy a house etc when they are older. Seems to be the only way to escape having to work till you die


universe93

When it comes to living with your parents after 30 sometimes theyā€™re living with you more than you living with them. Iā€™m 33 and live with my mum, I see her as a roommate at the times when Iā€™m not caring for her due to her illnesses. We split the bills and it works for us. I think a lot of people at some point wind up caring for their parents (unless a sibling is doing it or they die young). Thereā€™s a lot of people too who for cultural reasons live at home for a long time, possibly until theyā€™re married, and often grow up with grandparents or even great grandparents living in the house because itā€™s culturally expected to care for your elders


cataractum

This is my situation, almost. We take turns taking care of mum. She insists on paying some of the bills, but itā€™s largely my house that I am primarily responsible for.


youonpointphife

Makes financial sense but more to life than making money and buying houses. Goodluck dating if you live with your parents in your 30s


AussieCollector

If you are helping your parents around the house and actually being of use to them then i have no issues with it. There is a fine line between mooching/freeloading and actually co-living with your parents. If you are someone who can handle it and your parents like the company then by all means go for it. Personally for me i couldnt do it. I need my privacy.


extunit

Being independent annd living in your own home, whether rented or bought, is about growing up. I met several people like what O.P described and it's so sad that even in their 30s they still get spoonfed by their parents with so little life skills. They are so useless when they have to think on their own. They don't invite their mates to their homes because their parents are constantly there.


Old_Dingo69

I have a few mates who have done this. I would have loved to but unfortunately as much as I love my family I had to get the hell out from there and so I went down the PPOR + IP path. Definitely no right or wrong. Everybody has a different situation.


spiteful-vengeance

It's always your second property that returns wealth. Your first house is just for living. It sounds like he was able to bypass that first house, and likely benefitted him greatly. Note, that nothing is stopping him from buying a house to live in later when he's built up some wealth, which is actually a clever move. Suitability would vary - maybe his family live in a large house where he is largely left to himself?


hobz462

I'm at a stage in my life where I could go out and buy a house, but it's a lot easier living with mum in a large enough house that we can have our separate lives. I'd rather invest my money in stocks rather than an investment property, just based on the returns.


eniretakia

I mean, Iā€™m not precisely stuck on that mindset but if you can and youā€™re happy enough, why not? We donā€™t have enough of a deposit for a PPOR nor an investment property purchase right now, but our rent is really heavily subsidised by my partners employer, probably as close to living with our parents as we could get without actually living with them (which we would never do even if we lived in the same city and had that option). Iā€™m not really keen on giving that up for a mortgage tbh. Given that, if we hypothetically had the deposit and were going to purchase a property right now, it would probably be an investment.


tacocatfish

From a money making side of things I see his point. From an emotional side of things a bit nope. I love my parents and we have a fantastic relationship, but I have 0 regrets about moving out when I was 18. I took me until I was 30 to buy my own home, but I havenā€™t been a hinderance on my pets ya being able to retire .Iā€™m not a rich man, but Iā€™m a happy man.


[deleted]

Sure. Thatā€™s how you build wealth. Itā€™s how inter generational wealth works. I knew people in their 20s whoā€™s parents followed this plan and they had about a dozen properties already fully paid, they just spent most of their time going to the gym and playing golfā€¦


Appropriate-Cell-171

My parents hated me and each other and made me pay rent as soon as I turned 18 while also receiving some kind of low income aus study payment from centrelink that they got as my legal guardians.


VegetaX3

I wouldn't say my parents hated me, just bad with money and looked at me like an opportunity. But they took all my government payments until I turned 18 an could redirect them to myself and also get a job after which they charged me $250 to $450 a week board depending on how much I was getting paid at work. Cause how else was I going to have spending money, so moved out at 19 and paid about $500 a week for rent & all bills.


bbqmb

Does he have a partner? If not, Iā€™m sure theyā€™ll love spending nights at his parents houseā€¦


Ok_Programmer1052

We only get one life, when my parents were in their 30's they had already spent a few yeas oversea's. had many adventures and were now raising a family Your friend be living with his mommy through his 20's means he never hosted a party that got a little out of control at his share house where he lived with those Italian tourists, that vic socialist girl who hosted fundraisers in the backyard and the guy who was in a punk band that would sometimes practice in the living You wanna trade that for living with mommy whilst building your wealth? come on bro


[deleted]

There was a guy who posted here about a year ago who had something like $350,000 saved up in his mid 20s and he wanted to share his advice on how to do it. Essentially he was on a $120k government job, lived with his low-income parents, paid virtually no board and devoted all of his free time to cheap hobbies like video games. He reasoned that going out for meals and drinks costs money and even cited an example of how he refused to meet a girl for coffee because it would've been a waste of $5. Now as sad as that whole situation sounds, if that's how a person chooses to spend their 20s then so be it, no judgement. Unfortunately he took it a step further and was going on about how most people just lack the discipline that he has and shouldn't expect to get ahead if they don't make sacrifices. The responses to his wisdom were not kind.


waddlekins

Dudes gonna be subbing to onlyfans once midlife crisis hits like a ton of bricks


desperaste

Donā€™t agree with the weird party sentiment. But the logic is otherwise sound. Your friend sounds like he has the most depressing life going around. Huuuge sacrifice in QOL to what..? Own two properties you donā€™t live in. This is not a wise life decision, while being a sound financial one.


ILoveDogs2142

He is used to living with his parents and seems to enjoy. I went over to his house one day which was a beautiful two-storey home. He has his own room and he helps his parents out. Meals are made for him and he has been living this way and enjoys it. I guess each person is different though.


mrtuna

>. He has his own room and he helps his parents out. Meals are made for him He sounds a right catch


[deleted]

You pretty much just said he never grew up then. We eventually leave our nests and spread our wings and form lives of our own. Your friend is still relying on his parents to cook for him, he's not truly independent.


desperaste

Oh his own room? Thatā€™s okay then. Iā€™m sure the women he brings home are impressed with him having his own room and a mummy who makes him breakfast


aogfj

What women?


madcuntmcgee

Implying he pulls, which he obviously doesnt.


spaniel_rage

That doesn't sound like the existence of an adult. Who wants to be a child into their 30s?


Street_Buy4238

Having lived with one bloke who thought he was the next Slash (he was not), I'd rather move home with my parents than put myself through that torture of 1am drunken shitty guitar riffs ever again šŸ˜…


babydingo69

You donā€™t need to live in a share house with a bunch of characters to say youā€™ve lived life. I have friends who lived at home until late 20s whoā€™d put a lot to shame with the fun theyā€™ve had. The financial freedom it got them outweighed any shared house experience.


Ro141

I left home when I was 18, wouldn't trade it for anything. To be a self sufficient adult is so much more important than a property portfolio. It changes you so dramatically. The way I live everyday is a result of being a young man and learning exactly how I wanted to live. Leaving home is key indicator of adulthood


RTNoftheMackell

Gee, seeing all those cliches up close must make for such an amazing life.


AwakE432

Yeah I made another comment but geeezzz get out and live life. Living under the same roof you grew up in just to save a few dolllars is a miserable way to live. I have ended up back with my parents for a short stint for personal reasons at times but only for a year or so.


quetucrees

Or having to shower wearing flip-flops because the moment you don't you get ring fungus....


waddlekins

Whats he gonna cook for his date? Get his mother to come make the meal?


Larry_Version_3

I know itā€™s a great way to save money but I could never do this. Not just the fact it would drive me insane but because I feel like my parents would deserve better than that. They did their 18 years of hard work raising me. They donā€™t need another 12+ years of me hanging around interrupting the time that should be for them. I also donā€™t want to look back and say ā€˜I made itā€™ because they allowed me to leech. I would rather know Iā€™ve earned what Iā€™ve got (Edit: I acknowledge that not everyone feels this way. Itā€™s just my perspective on it)


ILoveDogs2142

This is a reasonable perspective and it seems many people here feel the same way. I guess the other side of the argument is that you are mistreating yourself, because having a PPOR with a mortgage means you are tied to your job for 30 years. If you don't have a mortgage, you're renting. Either way, you are putting yourself in a really vulnerable position. You have to suck up to management and fit in at your workplace. If you don't, you lose your job and that's lights out.


Larry_Version_3

Living in a rental currently I know Iā€™d much rather be stuck with a mortgage. Not only is the house trash, im stuck in a crap neighbourhood, have no control over the appearance of the house, a shit backyard (itā€™s literally a massive, uneven empty space with white rocks and a water tank, so you canā€™t do anything outside), and the agency I rent through is made up of the most incompetent people Iā€™ve ever encountered. Both options are preferable to burdening my parents though lol


ttoksie2

I can promise you that if I could have lived at home with mum and dad and bought investment properties until i had kids I would have, its looked down upon in western countries but it makes a lot of sense if you can.


midagemidpack

I moved out at 18 to got to Uni and never lived at home again. Had the time of my life, gained amazing memories and learned some hard truths. I wouldnā€™t change a thing and would never look back wishing I did it differently because of the money I spent or could have saved.


gahishGahba

I do this, itā€™s depressing living with the parents but it helps build wealth, Iā€™m hoping one day Iā€™ll find myself a queen and get married and move into one of my properties, or buy another one with her. it does make life easier in the future if you save and invest in your 20s and 30s then you have good passive income in your 50s to retire early


AggressiveConcert5

I knew a guy who was 27 who had 4 IPs. Dude worked a full time job and had his own successful business on the side. Lived with his mother. Absolutely no work life balance though. He's in his 30s now and just got a home for himself. I hope he chills out and learns to enjoy life a bit more.


Cultural-Chart3023

I'm a single mum stuck in the rent trap I think this might be the only way my kids can set themselves up because they can't take advantage of me any other way, I have nothing. Lol I just expect to move in with them later if I'm paying rent for the rest of my life I'd rather be paying it o my own kids than some random greedy investor


[deleted]

I know several like this. The even better part for them is their parents all went back to their country pretty much as soon as the kid was in university. Best of both worlds, independence, housing paid for and ability to use that money to invest. Sadly a few of them have squandered that opportunity and instead used it for partying.


marvellousaccounts

Every person I have met like this seems to be really dull, and devoid of any life experiences. Money is everything to them and it shows. They turn down attending any social events, and if they do attend they leave early because they want to 'save money'. I would rather enjoy the journey and have less. The only circumstances I would consider acceptable to live like this would be to save for your first home, everything after that is taking advantage of your parents generosity.


greyfoxwithlocks

Debt on a PPOR being a liability is Rich Dad Poor Dad. Robert Kyosaki. ETA: Iā€™m not sure why Iā€™m being downvoted, I was just stating a fact šŸ˜‚ Dude might be following Kyosakiā€™s ideas. Sorry if Iā€™ve offended.


ILoveDogs2142

Yes, I have read the summary of Rich Dad Poor Dad. Intuitively, it feels wrong not to buy your first home as a PPOR, but after reading RDPD and hearing from my friend, I am probably more convinced that buying an IP is a more financially sound decision if you have low living expenses.


Previous_Radish_28

My partner and I (mid 20s) bought out first property as an investment. We rent in Sydney due to work and purchased an IP in regional NSW with the rent paying off the mortgage and making a small profit. We're planning on buying a second IP before the year is out. They essentially just pay themselves off after you've secured them. Eventually we'll move into one (or both) depending on how life unfolds We don't work crazy hours like your friend or live with our parents, but to us it's a viable way to get on the ladder and give ourselves options in the future for when we decide where we want to settle


YetEvenThen

Parents? What parents? Pfft šŸ„²


Psych_FI

This will be me as a woman of colour. I'm building my share portfolio and looking to buy an investment property which I might live in for a year (offset stamp duty) then move back home. I don't care about dating, marriage or hooking up at all. I'm childfree. I enjoy my mother's company and my life overall is preferable at home vs housemates. I'll likely move out late 20's or early 30's but in a very strong position financially and able to remain single.


milonuttigrain

I wish I couldā€¦ My parents live overseas with my brother, his wife and 2 kids. Same family home. Meanwhile Iā€™m here struggling to buy my first home, $700k probably will get me a house 20-25kms West of Melbourne CBD. If I had the option to stay at home to save I wouldnā€™t miss the 2016 rally, and $700k back then could buy in a much nicer suburb.


Psych_FI

You are doing well to get anything in this market honestly especially with no help so kudos to you! I hear you although sadly I'm to young to have benefitted from any of the previous amazing property market opportunities.


anonymouslawgrad

I have money, but i wish i had mire love. A loving relationship is the be all and end all in life. Might be different for women but as a guy I'd my 1m property and good job for a girlfriend that loved me and wanted my children. I've a few but currently single wishing not to be approaching the big 3-0


Specialist_Leg_92

Dad living with mum and dad in your 30s. Id say thatā€™s failure to launch


PxavierJ

Good luck to him. If he has parents who can house him and he is happy to live with them then I think heā€™s making all the right choices. Thing is those circumstances arenā€™t available to everyone, or if they are, itā€™s not the right lifestyle choice. I work with a lot of Asian guys and girls and itā€™s common to hear stories like this. Another is co-investing and expense sharing with other relatives. Also work with some very successful Anglo types that also donā€™t own homes, they build wealth through equities and other investments whilst renting in pretty top tier suburbs through P/L or trust structures and always make sure they game their work/life situation so the rent is at least 50% tax beneficial.


[deleted]

I rent where I live and have investment properties. I buy what makes financial sense ie a good investment and I rent where I want to live. I love the freedom.


6373billy

This sounds like a cultural issue thatā€™s prevalent in non Anglo communities. I dare say this is a family decision thatā€™s been passed on in this personā€™s culture. Heā€™s not 100% wrong what he is doing and itā€™s less burden on himself when he does own his own property. Heā€™ll get a ton of tax deductions whilst also earning rent income. Itā€™s not really common however this thinking since many his age group would be wanting to leave home and own a property. Australians in general are very financially illiterate when it comes to finances. Its at the point now that real estate is over leveraged when it comes to making investments and many when given access to means of creating other wealth squander opportunities. While this gentlemen isnā€™t necessarily wrong heā€™s also a bit naive of his other options. Granted he could be low income in general and not having the means but that doesnā€™t necessarily mean that you go out and buy a second investment property. Diversification is a great thing unfortunately in Australia in general amongst Anglo and non Anglo communities property is THE go to rather than a secondary choice like in other countries.


HahnTrollo

Seen this a few times. It goes hand in hand with having your mum iron your work shirts and hand pack your lunch in your 20s/30s.


SagaciousShikoba

I believe itā€™s called rentvesting. You donā€™t need to live with your parents. I did FIFO so I didnā€™t really even need to live anywhere. Work and save while youā€™re away and just travel in your time off. It is much better to go into investing first as you can get a cashflow and some equity and then buy you PPOR. If you go to PPOR first then you donā€™t have the leverage to get an IP


Greater_good_penguin

It's a reasonably prevalent in some East Asian, Eastern European and Med countries. Some people don't leave their parental home until they get married. This may at least be partly caused by economic circumstances. For example, Spain and Italy struggle with low growth which has a negative impact on young people starting their careers and getting their own homes. \`The economic advantages are substantial. Unless your parents are going to downsize or rent out the room, you will save more money as a family by living with your parents. This money can then be invested into shares, property or your own business.


cataractum

Itā€™s a cultural thing, not economic. Households stick together. Same in *some* Jewish families, too.


motorboat2000

As a parent, if one of my kids were in their 30s investing in property and still living in my home, my foot would be having words with their jacksie.


rnzz

I'd say quite a few people do this, because there's a term for it: "rentvesting". You live in a rental (or a place you don't own, like your parents'), while having an investment property(ies) elsewhere. In my opinion, if you can live with your parents, then that is your PPOR, in a sense. There's no financial reason why you wouldn't do that if it's an option.


[deleted]

nothing wrong with this for those that can live at home do so for as long as you can life in the real world is difficult.


more_bananajamas

Lived with in-laws for 3 years to save up. Definitely worth it and lucky to have that available to us.


Shchmoozie

These are also the people who will say shit like "I've built up from nothing with no help from anyone"


EveningHorror1010

really depends what your parents are like, can be super chill or absolutely insufferable


spazzo246

This would have been me. Im 29 and bought a house last year. Before this I was savings 40k (70k Yearly Income after tax) Per Year living with my parents. So much freedom to buy and spend whatever I want. My parents are italian so they wanted the best for me and would have let me stay at home as long as I wanted.