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I’ll add that we’re both Christians, and live very separate lives. One of the more frustrating parts of the hours of argument that went on was the absolute deflection of any challenge to her world views from the foundation of Christ-likeness.
It feels very silly, because I was kind of devastated by a Facebook argument. The meme was the final straw, but the anger over what these kind of Christian are using the Bible for, the pity for old people being trapped in a paranoid and vitriolic reality tunnel, and the fear of the fact that I give the woman access to my children completely devastated me.
After losing sleep over all of this, she sent a text message that asked me about getting bolts out of her shed door, and the fact that all of this on FB is, to her, completely separated from her real life was, I don’t know. I just like, I’m sad, man.
I'm Christian too and this whole issue is infuriating. People, particularly evangelicals, are using the Bible to justify anything and everything Israel is doing. Meanwhile, Christians in Israel (like palestians in general) are being treated like second class citizens, nuns are being harrased, Gaza's churches have almost all been destroyed in attacks that can only be described as targeted. Why would you ever defend an aparteid state that treats our brothers and sisters trash at best and cannon fodder at worst? It's inconceivable, it's appalling. It's beyond insulting to try to use the Bible to justify this war. Hundreds of Christians have died terrible deaths already. Thousands more are trying to survive in a living hell. This is not just, this is not a holy war, this is a genocide. I'm just sick of it.
It's almost like their is a correlation between ignorance and evangelicals.
I grew up I'm catholicsm and the constant hypocrisy is what got me as well. Obviously I took it a step further to where I started studying other religions and now mostly relate to eastern spirituality.
Watch Pastor Chuck Baldwin on Youtube, especially his video called "I will curse those that bless you". You might need to FF past the 501c3 talk to get to the good stuff.
He also recently made one on YT defending the college protesters which is good.
I get that, when I converted to islam my mother still shared post by very anti-islam pages and still writes weird stuff and when I confront her about it she acts like im crazy and im making it up, then we fight, then we dont talk and 1-2 days later she resets back to factory settings and acts like it never happened, this also only happens if she knows that she's fighting a losing battle, if she thinks she's right she wont forget it and will bring it up every chance she gets, but if im right it never happened
I wonder about the psychology of this, because my mother did something similar when I went vegan. After several serious conversations about how I don’t believe animal exploitation and suffering is ever okay, she sends a “wholesome” picture of a little hobby pig farm she visited to our entire family group chat for awwws and hearts. Like??! Are you trying to provoke me or change my mind?
What is the purpose of these stunts? They’re just hurtful
It’s weird - I’m a mom and I couldn’t imagine being that much of an ass to my own kid. Honestly it must be like some weird denial of the fact you are an independent human being now and they can’t control your opinions or actions anymore like when you were a child.
>Are you trying to provoke me or change my mind?
>What is the purpose of these stunts? They’re just hurtful
They cannot accept the possibility that they could be wrong. To prevent dealing with other viewpoints as valid, and the emotional shattering that could result, they feel forced to make you, by whatever means, share their worldview, and be convinced of their correctness.
>when I confront her about it she acts like im crazy and im making it up, then we fight, then we dont talk and 1-2 days later she resets back to factory settings and acts like it never happened
Very manipulatory tactic.
In this case, my mother kept dragging me into the war and disregarding my confronting her disregard for her Christianity. What I directly called it out she began to apologize for not being as good of a Christian as I apparently am and not having it all figured out. It wasn’t even conscious, she just intuited how to pivot to manipulation.
You may find some validation and even support from the book Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents (link below).
Cutting off parents is a hard decision, but it can be very beneficial long-term. (It's amazing how much better a person can feel about themselves when they don't get manipulated or guilted constantly).
You may decide different boundaries rather than a full cut off, and that's fine too! You're not alone in working to set boundaries with parents that are healthy/healthier for you.
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/23129659-adult-children-of-emotionally-immature-parents
Nedra Tawwab's book, _Set Boundaries, Find Peace_ is another resource a lot of folks have found helpful.
Best of luck, and good work on challenging oppressive rhetoric when you see it! ❤️
I'm having this problem with my husband, a christian (evangelical protestant) zionist, while I'm the antizionist Jewish Christian who woke up to Palestine last yr. I get impatient and keep telling him "focus on the actual words of Christ" and watch videos by Pastor Chuck Baldwin...then I recall what Malcolm X once said....not to be impatient with those who don't know what we do yet, bc there was a time when we didn't yet know what we know now either.
We’re currently on the tail end of working through Matthew, so I’m studying the 7 woes (woe to you scribes…hypocrites) and struggling to keep the beatitudes at the forefront.
>if im right it never happened
Good. At least you have a sign. Better than those that continue to argue their position even if they know they're wrong...
When racism and bigotry supplants Christian values. Because from what I know of Christianity purposely starving children to death and purposely shooting them in the head after their hands are bound is considered a sin.
Does she not know that IDF also killed Christian Palestinians? They are sniping them right outside the churches that they have taken refuge in? That they have bombed and diatroyed all the churches in Gaza including the 3rd oldest in the world?
Those evangelicals who endorse this secular Israel usually play deaf when I quote the part Jesus telling Jews to believe in him or go to hell as well as Sodomites. They are definitely under the influence of Israel's Hasbara.
As a Palestinian Christian, I feel disappointed by those Christians (by name) in the West who justify the occupation and killings of anyone from any faith or nationality, let alone a fellow Christian like them.
It’s not much coming from a random stranger on the internet, but I hear you and I’m deeply sorry for what you’re going through.
Weird thing about growing up is going through life being dismissed as a child. One day you’re a young adult tempered with enough insight and reason to challenge your parents, and maybe find to your profound disappointment that there’s not much there.
At one point she told me that Hamas hides bombs under schools and so the idf has to bomb the schools to blow up the bombs under the schools. It was at this point that I realized there’s nothing anyone can say to get through.
On one hand, family is something we should value, and the breakdown of these bonds is indicative of larger social ills.
On the other hand, if you have parents born before about 1975 they are often as pathologically individualistic, they often don't really hold up their part of the bargain. They want you to come to them even when you have young children, they rarely offer childcare, and they will probably squander what's left of their money getting scammed on some reverse mortgage or on some 2-bd 4k sq ft track housing in some 55+ community 3 hours out of the way and demand everybody go there for thanksgiving. They basically want to retain the status of a patriarch/matriarch but also be the cultural hegemon of youth. You are a perpetual child to them and yet you need to dole out favors like home maintenance they are now too feeble for and administrative tasks that have grown too complicated for them.
It's not always this bad but it's a common problem nowadays . I understand exasperation with the young is a universal constant, but I don't know if we've ever lived in a time where the dialogue was dominated by people in various stages of dementia railing against the 30-50 year olds that are doing the bulk of the labor and would normally be holding the baton by now.
No this is pretty spot on. Can’t pay mortgage, refuses to sell and rent, talks about a tiny house in Tennessee, buys silver and cans chicken but still needs money from me monthly.
For years I’ve consciously only been in contact because there is a cultural standard that you don’t abandon your parents, especially if you have no siblings, but I just can’t anymore. Especially when (she’s one of those people that posts “I’m from the generation that walked to school and played in the dirt”), on one of the two times my kids see her, she can’t unglue herself from social media while they climb on her to play.
Yeah if you had an otherwise good relationship with her it would be one thing. Rarely when I hear stories of people with parents like this is that the case. The ability to dehumanize people to this degree and a commitment to feeling powerful by proxy as an American almost always maps onto bad character traits that emerge in other ways.
Forgive me if I'm presuming: but it sounds like you're bound by feelings of obligation rather than love.
YMMV but personally, I don't think that's a relationship worth preserving.
My mother can be infuriating and we don't agree about much. But she has always been on the right side of - you know - *genociding people*. For me, that would be the absolute deal breaker, no matter what else is going in in our lives.
And so you know, you youngins aren't actually alone. I'm GenX and my mother is a boomer. Age is not an excuse.
Boomer here, but I'm not here to say "NoT aLl BoOmErS!" On the contrary, I'm here to point out the irony of my generation's having (correctly) said "Don't trust anyone older than 30" back during the Vietnam War and now being as reactionary as our own parents' generation was in that same era.
Just like the olds in 1970 said that the protesters at Kent State got what was coming to them, too many boomers are misplacing their sympathy by simping for the apartheid state and—at best—shedding crocodile tears for Gazans (while completely ignoring what's going on on the West Bank)
>I'm here to point out the irony of my generation's having (correctly) said "Don't trust anyone older than 30" back during the Vietnam War and now being as reactionary as our own parents' generation was in that same era.
Genuinely asking, are these the same people? My headcanon was that most of the hippies have died of preventable causes by now (as poor people tend to do) and the "boomers" we have left are mostly the sons and daughters of privilege.
That's a fair point. In any era I'd guess that a lot of people just go along with the values they're supposed to have without actually having them (that's pretty much the definition of *politically correct*). I'd have hoped, though, that contemporaries of the kids murdered at Kent State wouldn't be ranting about protesters today and accusing them of doing violence by making noise & disturbance during finals (an accusation I heard recently).
It's as though buying into the norms of being an adult causes memory and empathy loss with who one used to be, and that makes me sad. Perhaps that's why it's called selling out, though.
It's not her fault. She is being targetted from very sophisticated brainwashing campaigns. Her whole youtube facebook etc is probably telling her that Israel is fighting terrorists and not killing and murdering children.
Just understand, that she is part of the victims.
It kind of reminds me of the people that lost their parents to conspiracy theories during Covid. I remember one guy who’s mothe went from being skeptical to fully inside an alt right pipeline
People Over 50 are some of the most vapid, retarded, ignorant Motherfuckers out there
They are literally the most gullible simple minded bigoted, hateful buffoons to walk the earth.
They don’t know what critical thinking is even if it hits them. They live comfortable lives, feeding on nothing but the mainstream media narrative
They repeatedly get scammed, and they are extremely arrogant
58 here and that doesn't describe my friends AT ALL. And the vitriol in the comments on this post against those 50 is going to cost you support.
I think it's more geographic. Most people on the West Coast under 60 are pretty reasonable. I can't speak for other areas because I haven't lived there but it seems flyover country is dominated by Evangelical backwards thinking from birth.
We’re in Camden NJ, so we can see center city Philly across the river. At some point in the 00s working class white people from the city took a hard turn against their own interests.
That's just it. There's no getting through to these people, and if you say something along the lines of "agree to disagree" or "I'm just not going there with you" they act as if their wits are superior and it only makes them double down. It's fucking maddening.
If it helps OP I had to do the same with a lot of my family because they're just genuinely shitty and toxic people. Some of us have to go out into the world and find our own tribe, and people who can think critically are often left to wander for a bit.
I hate to be so blunt, and you might've ended your relationship with your mom but you have/ had a choice. Kids/ people your age in Palestine don't. In much of human history, being on the right side of it was never easy. It was never the path of lesser resistance.
You're awesome. The greatest mark of a good person is the willingness to call themselves out on being an asshole. Nobody is born perfect. We all have to admit when we're wrong and improve ourselves.
Same here. And I’m losing friends and family left and right asking to start any conversation about the conflict with these 3 questions:
* Did Hamas behead babies ?
* Does Hamas use rape as a weapon ?
* Is Tsahal the most human army in the world ?
If they answer yes to these 3 questions I know there is no chance we can still have a relationship.
Also, I’ve noticed that the ones saying yes to all 3 have absolutely no interest accessing documents, videos, etc. that would *prove* to them how wrong they are.
If you click on Google news you can see how wildly different the headlines are. Fox headlines are always the most inflammatory. It’s WILD to see the difference in real time
It's basically like watching interdimensional cable; something that was made for an alien.
I don't know what they hope to accomplish banning stuff like tik Tok, it's not like that's going to get people to consume media that isn't written for them. When I see a gaunt woman with level 10G blonde hair and huge veneers I don't think "oh this looks legit, I wonder what this normal seasoned professional has to say"
It'll just land people on telegram or more obscure websites that are even more extreme.
Just want to chime in as a 53F that you’re (mostly) correct. Luckily, there are some of us, including my 72yo mom, who are fully enlightened, eyes WIDE open, about what’s happening. We’re using our voices as loudly as we can and are horrified by all of this. Free Palestine. 🇵🇸
I saw a video a couple of months ago that was so horrid.
A girl was dying after being bombed. her brain was exposed. Her fingers were twitching independently but entirely from the metacarpal joint, in a way that couldn't have been voluntary.
It was filmed by the father, the translation revealed that he was chatting with emergency services via video, where he was basically told there was nothing they could do, that she would be dead before they got there.
At one point, she seemed to come out of trance and touch her own brain, to which the father desperately said "nononono" - a familiar phrase for anybody with a toddler, when they pull the cats tail or pick up a crystal champagne flute, only it was her grabbing her own brain, while the father was still holding onto to some hope she might live.
Anyway, some hasbot showed up in the comments claiming he mutilated his own daughter in that fashion, filmed it, because he just hates Jews so much and wanted to make them look bad.
No amount of limiting what I can see will get me to forget that moment. The horror of it, and the reaction of Israel's supporters to it. I have seen so many things in the last few months, but that one changed me forever, and it was the shock of seeing that narrative applied in real time in such a twisted way.
Some people cannot be reformed even if they see the truth for themselves.
God damn. I've purposely not been watching the more graphic videos of Israel's genocide against Palestinians, just reading about it makes me so angry, hopeless, and hateful. I think I'm scarred from just your description... Who the fuck says something like that??? Saving your comment to send to anyone who tries to defend Israel's actions.
The best I can come up with is people really deep into this think they are the only sentient feeling people in existence and everyone else is basically an automaton designed to dole out god's punishment or rewards. 99.7% of the world are "NPCs" for lack of a better term, who only exist in so far as their relationship to them. So when they try to conceive of an "inner world" for other people, they can only get as far as what that person feels about them. Not what they would feel for their family friends, but about strangers they have never met.
Edit: I am saying this because either the hasbot actually believed this to be true OR thought that the audience they needed to convince was also not sentient or in possession of normal cognition.
I think it’s “main character syndrome” caused by reinforcing the idea since birth that certain people are more special and yet also more vulnerable than everyone else. I grew up in a religious sect (cult?) that also clung to this belief, so I can see how pervasive and radicalizing it is at its core.
It really leads to a total lack of empathy and a desperate need to “protect” your in-group, even if there’s not actually any real or substantive threat. It’s why you will often see a knee-jerk reaction that boils down to “we have to destroy the enemy before they have an opportunity to attack us.” You see it in some fundamentalist Christians, for example, that are on the lookout for the devil at every turn.
And then the follow-up to that is the consistent Zionist trope of Arab/Muslim bad, our people are surrounded and outnumbered by them, so if they so much as sneeze, we’ll see it as a real menace to our society as a whole. Even though people of all religions and cultures pretty much just want to be able to live in peace and have a decent opportunity to raise their families in a safe environment.
They surprise pikachu face when you tell them that the accusations of Hamas using human shields have been investigated repeatedly and never been proven...but the IDF using human shields *has.*
Of course, then they claim that every humanitarian organization and news agency and freaking Wikipedia is being run by Hamas.
>I swear everybody over 50 lives in an alternate reality
Don't do that. "Everybody" is a big word.
P.S. Thank you to the young people that are leading this struggle for justice.
Most Americans over 50 are the victims of never ending propaganda.
They were fed a steady diet of "any oversight over capital is an infringement of YOUR rights" by capital. And now that everything has gone to shit, they blame oversight.
I am frankly amazed you lasted as long as you did. This kind of world view invariably seeps into other aspects of the person's character, and they tend to get worse as time progresses.
How are boomers fr this dumb like how is Facebook full of people genuinely congratulating pics of A.I Jesus on a motorbike made of broccoli? How and why do these people have jobs and own property?
Beggars belief
Any sources? My parents are those Christians that believe Israel is God's chosen people and can do no wrong, and that anything Israel, no matter how bloodthirsty and genocidal, is justified by the Bible.
The wildest part about the complete BS propaganda line about human shields they all just parrot, Israel has used Palestinians as actual riot shield style human shields when breaching homes in Gaza. It’s projection as propaganda and it’s worked.
And even if the human shield line was 100% fact, hostage negotiators don’t just shoot a kid because they’re between a bullet and a bad guy. Like, in no human shield situation would you just kill the hostage.
Yeah... and even though hamas don't use human shields even if they did it is shocking that people are OK wirh the subtext of being 'forced' to kill anyone like you point out
Right, which is why the IDF repeatedly used this tactic breaching buildings with “suspected Khamas” members because they were betting on Palestinians not wanting to shoot another pal, but the IDF just carpet bombs at will pretending it’s waging the safest war with the most care ever for civilian life.
The accusations against Hamas of using human shields have all been investigated and determined to be unfounded.
Like, it's right in the Wikipedia page.
They used each other's civilians as human shield instead of their own. IDF proved that they don't give a f by vaporizing everyone indiscriminately. Somehow, there are still idiots believe that IDF is getting asskicked by being moral.
I've had very similar conversations with my mother (Boomer ethnic Jew raised Evangelical Xtian). Every time I think I've gotten through to her, by the time we have our next convo, we're back to square one. It's highly exasperating.
Lately, she's stopped defending Israel (with me, at least) but is *really* upset that I'm not voting for Biden. I'm voting Green, as I have since 2012. We're not even in a swing state, so who cares really? Every day she sends me "scary Trump" headlines. My usual response is "Biden better hurry up and get a permanent ceasefire, then". Yesterday she sent me one that said "Trump says he'll prosecute Biden unless SCOTUS gives him immunity". My answer was "Don't threaten me with a good time" 😂
I've told her many times she can vote for whoever she wants. I will freely criticize any candidate, but I'm not telling anyone who to vote for or not vote for this November. It sucks that this basic respect doesn't go both ways, as is so often the case in our relationship. I haven't found an answer to it. I hope you're able to find some peace ❤️
American "christians" are very very VERY SPECIFIC kind of christians.
They use a special bible - scofield bible. There is a crucial difference in it that differentiates it from all other versions.
American "christians" chief tenet is support of Israel. Full stop.
It is insane, but it is what it is.
No other "christian" around the world does this - only American "christians".
I too have had to cut free from my mother, so I understand the grief that comes from that. In the end, you have to prioritize your sanity and values. I'm proud of you for making that painful choice.
It’s amazing that even at a time when their countless war crimes is being live-streamed on our phones, that so many people are still in denial. Got into an argument w my sister in law for posting propaganda crap as well. I’m avoiding her and my brother over it—just can’t deal
On Twitter, someone shared a similar experience about their father, who held strong Zionist views. Despite so many debates, the father remained closed-minded. The person decided to subtly change his father's Facebook algorithm by liking Gaza posts and disliking Israeli ones, I think. So, the videos coming from Gaza would show up on his page. Over time, he noticed a change in their father's behaviour – his father stopped criticizing Palestinians, and he even saw his father looking up the products to boycott for Gaza. While he hasn't directly confronted his father (because he believes his dad will refuse again due to ego issues instead of apologizing), these small steps were making a difference, albeit slowly.
You should try it too
I haven’t had access to the same computer as my mother in 20 years lol. That is good though, some passive way confront them with the brutality. No one is changing their mind mid argument.
How much longer are people (not just boomers) going to repeat this “human shields” bullshit again and again? The level of critical thinking required to debunk that is not much, yet somehow these people think they’re so smart and got it all figured out
I try not to talk politics with my brother and anyone closest to me.
I don't think it's worth severing relationship over it - I'd rather we grow ignorant of others' political affiliations.
Thankfully my wife is a rabid Pro-Palestine supporter, more extreme than I am, so we agree on almost everything and it's not hard to talk about it.
I’ve successfully avoided it for a long time and have been able to scroll past awful memes. This meme though, just like, evil, and opened the floodgates.
Making my mother a supporter of Palestinians was not easy mainly because it forced her to confront some really hard truths about the people in her life. Still, it has really improved our relationship, and I've seen it lead to her demanding more respect from the rest of my family (who usually treat her like shit). No judgment to the OP, my mom was never this bad!
I will never understand the "Hamas was using them as human shields, they had to shoot or bomb them to defeat Hamas" line of thought.
Maybe, just don't shoot them at all?
And even in cases where innocents get killed in cross fire, how can anyone be okay with 40000 kids dead?
Gaza truly has become the moral compass of the world. Any one who doesn’t stand with the Palestinians just shows their deep hatred racism fascism. It’s like it was hidden under the surface all along and now it’s brought to the light.
I am sorry, we cannot imagine how hard it must have been for you. Whenever it is your mother realises her mistake (I hope and pray that she does), she would find some peace knowing her son chose to be on the right side of history.
I appreciate every single one of you, who haven’t lost their souls in these dark times.
I don’t know why they get like this as they age. My parents are actual hippies, like, we lived in a commune for the first years of my life. But my mom is obsessed with revenge. It’s developed as she’s aged, she wasn’t like this when I was growing up. But now everything is vengeance and getting even. It’s exhausting and irritating,
Israel proved countless timess that everytime IDF terrorists bomb a civilian infrastructure, digital Hamas will automatically spawn afterward. IDF terrorists are simply getting their asses kicked by highly trained Hamas terrorists due to their lack of training and terrible strategy instead of caring too much about civilians.
The reality about post WWI warfare is that bombing civilians may damage rival's future economy and development, but won't defeat the enemies because the size of army is just too damn small compare to population size. Even well trained Nazi soldiers couldn't take Moscow after leveling it, because as long as the rubble is still taller than 2 or 3 adult male it still provides perfect cover to local guerrilla, provide great firing position, and prevents vehicles from navigating through. Also the ammunition cost of ensuring one building is unusable for guerrilla fighters might be up to 10 even 100 times more expensive than making it uninhabitable for civilians. This is why Israel also send military engineers and bulldozers into Gaza to detonate and ram buildings for budget sake.
Maybe I just randomly ended up having nontypical examples of generations in my life (these are all friends, I have no living family) but everyone I know who is 50 plus age group tends Left and antiwar. At the State Capitol protests (we have a horrible State Legislature) more than half of the protestors are old people. The Gen X people I know tend to be neocons who hate Russia and Iran etc., think Julian Assange is a criminal and never go to protests.
Christian Zionists don’t make sense because even if the reason for their ideology is that “Israelites are God’s chosen people” many Palestinians actually have Israelite ancestry and their ancestors just converted to Christianity or Islam. Jews do too (DNA wise Palestinians and Jews are genetically closely related), but that doesn’t mean there needs to be a Jewish ethnostate.
Trying to figure out how to navigate the same situation with my dad, who "doesn't understand" why it's so upsetting to me that he justifies and supports genocide
Young westerners these days are getting only a sniff of just how rotten their society is, and it's nauseating to them, as it should be. But it's only just a sniff, and there's a lot of work to be done before the rot can be cleaned away and fresh air can triumph.
Eh, I can't condone cutting off one's mother from an Islamic perspective, but yeah I can see how someone with such views can be very frustrating. I would at least keep the door open for help if she needs it financially I suppose...
It's not really the same thing, but I think I will have to let go of a 20 year friendship because a really close friend and their family and friends are all like your mom.
To be honest, I haven't confronted this person or looked at their social media in fear of what I'll see, but from the FB posts of their friends and family members, it's pretty bad. I don't know how much this friend agrees with them. I kind of went MIA with this person because I just don't know how to approach this. Generally, we have been drifting apart gradually.
On top of that, I've had to let go of the political party, organizations, people, and institutions I use to admire, volunteer, and donate because they are either silent or complicit. Overall, it's just been a very disillusioning time.
I'm sorry it got to that point. Hope one day you can work it out. I had a falling out with my cousin about him supporting the military and Israel. We finally talked it out after 3 months and decided we won't talk about this issue anymore since we can't agree on it
Yeah, my 80 year old grandmother asked if my college was protesting and when I said “no, not right now, they’re actually listening to us” she forwarded me a chain email from Shai Davidai. I haven’t messaged her since. It’s a different level of familial relationship, but I really feel for you.
Yeah, it turned into an all night back and forth that, although I could see how futile and detrimental it was to me, I just couldn’t keep out of it. I actually have pictures of most of the conversation if you’re interested lol. But yes, it’s an anger that’s fueled by fear, a rabbit hole she started down in 2020 and it’s consumed her entire life. It’s sad, but it’s to a point now where any sympathy I have for her is eclipsed by the manipulation and guilt tripping to my wife and I.
u/MattSk87 the only thing I'd disagree with is that you said "the only proof they hit the target..." well, heck, they're carpet bombing the shizzle out of Gaza and hitting everything. I think that pretty much includes the target too. Which makes your point even more poignant, that they do not give one F about anyone in Gaza, Israeli, Palestinian, Gentile, Jew, Adult, or child...they're all little targets running around with HAMAS in big neon letters hanging over their heads.
Yeah. That was a specific reference to Al-Shifa, specific examples didn’t help, but showing an understanding of individual events and reactions at least increases the chances that they might question their narrative.
My brother visited me for the first time in a year. He started justifying not doing anything because 'we need to buy stuff from there' and acted like he knows more than someone who has a degree in international law and did their history degree on Palestine... i told him there is literally no justifying killing that many people. These peoples feelings are more important than people dying and that unfortunately doesn't seem to cause them any discomfort at all. I told him to leave because he called me a conspiracy theorist because I was not able to believe him justifying people working for a government that is selling weapons to Israel 'not really knowing' what is happening. He thinks I called him a fascist. I was actually calling him a liberal which is worse but I'm not speaking to him anymore.
My opinion is do not sever ties with your mother. She has been manipulated and brainwashed. Just tell her you won’t talk to her about this issue. You only get one mother.
Not sure if I personally would sever ties with either parent over that but I would end a friendship over it for sure. Pretty fucking unforgivable sentiment.
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I’ll add that we’re both Christians, and live very separate lives. One of the more frustrating parts of the hours of argument that went on was the absolute deflection of any challenge to her world views from the foundation of Christ-likeness. It feels very silly, because I was kind of devastated by a Facebook argument. The meme was the final straw, but the anger over what these kind of Christian are using the Bible for, the pity for old people being trapped in a paranoid and vitriolic reality tunnel, and the fear of the fact that I give the woman access to my children completely devastated me. After losing sleep over all of this, she sent a text message that asked me about getting bolts out of her shed door, and the fact that all of this on FB is, to her, completely separated from her real life was, I don’t know. I just like, I’m sad, man.
I'm Christian too and this whole issue is infuriating. People, particularly evangelicals, are using the Bible to justify anything and everything Israel is doing. Meanwhile, Christians in Israel (like palestians in general) are being treated like second class citizens, nuns are being harrased, Gaza's churches have almost all been destroyed in attacks that can only be described as targeted. Why would you ever defend an aparteid state that treats our brothers and sisters trash at best and cannon fodder at worst? It's inconceivable, it's appalling. It's beyond insulting to try to use the Bible to justify this war. Hundreds of Christians have died terrible deaths already. Thousands more are trying to survive in a living hell. This is not just, this is not a holy war, this is a genocide. I'm just sick of it.
It's almost like their is a correlation between ignorance and evangelicals. I grew up I'm catholicsm and the constant hypocrisy is what got me as well. Obviously I took it a step further to where I started studying other religions and now mostly relate to eastern spirituality.
A healthy interest is Orthodox Christianity philosophy is a good path as well. It like Christianity without western influence.
Interesting that the party of Christianity that might appeal to me the most is the Celtic Church, via the likes of the Iona Community.
Traditional Catholicism knows the truth about zionism. Its why pre Vatican 2 Popes condemned it.
Watch Pastor Chuck Baldwin on Youtube, especially his video called "I will curse those that bless you". You might need to FF past the 501c3 talk to get to the good stuff. He also recently made one on YT defending the college protesters which is good.
I get that, when I converted to islam my mother still shared post by very anti-islam pages and still writes weird stuff and when I confront her about it she acts like im crazy and im making it up, then we fight, then we dont talk and 1-2 days later she resets back to factory settings and acts like it never happened, this also only happens if she knows that she's fighting a losing battle, if she thinks she's right she wont forget it and will bring it up every chance she gets, but if im right it never happened
I wonder about the psychology of this, because my mother did something similar when I went vegan. After several serious conversations about how I don’t believe animal exploitation and suffering is ever okay, she sends a “wholesome” picture of a little hobby pig farm she visited to our entire family group chat for awwws and hearts. Like??! Are you trying to provoke me or change my mind? What is the purpose of these stunts? They’re just hurtful
It’s weird - I’m a mom and I couldn’t imagine being that much of an ass to my own kid. Honestly it must be like some weird denial of the fact you are an independent human being now and they can’t control your opinions or actions anymore like when you were a child.
>Are you trying to provoke me or change my mind? >What is the purpose of these stunts? They’re just hurtful They cannot accept the possibility that they could be wrong. To prevent dealing with other viewpoints as valid, and the emotional shattering that could result, they feel forced to make you, by whatever means, share their worldview, and be convinced of their correctness.
same thing happened to me when I left Islam, my parents still keep forcing their religious views on me
Sorry to hear that. That was my experience too, but I've become Muslim again and still don't have a good relationship with them.
>when I confront her about it she acts like im crazy and im making it up, then we fight, then we dont talk and 1-2 days later she resets back to factory settings and acts like it never happened Very manipulatory tactic.
In this case, my mother kept dragging me into the war and disregarding my confronting her disregard for her Christianity. What I directly called it out she began to apologize for not being as good of a Christian as I apparently am and not having it all figured out. It wasn’t even conscious, she just intuited how to pivot to manipulation.
You may find some validation and even support from the book Adult Children of Emotionally Immature Parents (link below). Cutting off parents is a hard decision, but it can be very beneficial long-term. (It's amazing how much better a person can feel about themselves when they don't get manipulated or guilted constantly). You may decide different boundaries rather than a full cut off, and that's fine too! You're not alone in working to set boundaries with parents that are healthy/healthier for you. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/23129659-adult-children-of-emotionally-immature-parents Nedra Tawwab's book, _Set Boundaries, Find Peace_ is another resource a lot of folks have found helpful. Best of luck, and good work on challenging oppressive rhetoric when you see it! ❤️
Who's playing the victim now, mother?
I'm having this problem with my husband, a christian (evangelical protestant) zionist, while I'm the antizionist Jewish Christian who woke up to Palestine last yr. I get impatient and keep telling him "focus on the actual words of Christ" and watch videos by Pastor Chuck Baldwin...then I recall what Malcolm X once said....not to be impatient with those who don't know what we do yet, bc there was a time when we didn't yet know what we know now either.
We’re currently on the tail end of working through Matthew, so I’m studying the 7 woes (woe to you scribes…hypocrites) and struggling to keep the beatitudes at the forefront.
I think all boomer mothers are like this
>if im right it never happened Good. At least you have a sign. Better than those that continue to argue their position even if they know they're wrong...
It sounds like gaslighting.
When racism and bigotry supplants Christian values. Because from what I know of Christianity purposely starving children to death and purposely shooting them in the head after their hands are bound is considered a sin.
Solidarity and strength to you, comrade ❤️ we are here for you. You stood up for human rights. You did nothing wrong.
I'm sorry for your loss. Genuinely, it's okay to mourn something like this. Sending love your way, I hope she comes to her senses 🤍
Damn. Your last sentence got me. I feel you. From one human to another.
Does she not know that IDF also killed Christian Palestinians? They are sniping them right outside the churches that they have taken refuge in? That they have bombed and diatroyed all the churches in Gaza including the 3rd oldest in the world?
"no all Arabs are dirty brown people and scary Muslims that's why I want them dead."
Those evangelicals who endorse this secular Israel usually play deaf when I quote the part Jesus telling Jews to believe in him or go to hell as well as Sodomites. They are definitely under the influence of Israel's Hasbara.
As a Palestinian Christian, I feel disappointed by those Christians (by name) in the West who justify the occupation and killings of anyone from any faith or nationality, let alone a fellow Christian like them.
Have you tried informing your Mom of the plight of Christians in Gaza?
I’ve lost 60% of my friends and family. Someday they will understand why. God bless you and give you strength to overcome what we have seen.
It’s not much coming from a random stranger on the internet, but I hear you and I’m deeply sorry for what you’re going through. Weird thing about growing up is going through life being dismissed as a child. One day you’re a young adult tempered with enough insight and reason to challenge your parents, and maybe find to your profound disappointment that there’s not much there.
I swear everybody over 50 lives in an alternate reality
At one point she told me that Hamas hides bombs under schools and so the idf has to bomb the schools to blow up the bombs under the schools. It was at this point that I realized there’s nothing anyone can say to get through.
ah yes, hamas also infected the little girls with the hamas virus and the IDF had to gRape them to save them from hamas
khamas*
Hummmuuusssss
Honestly though… if 15,000 dead children isn’t enough, there is no enough.
Well put. If that doesn't pull you back to sanity, then you were always a genocide supporter, as long as it was the right people being genocided.
On one hand, family is something we should value, and the breakdown of these bonds is indicative of larger social ills. On the other hand, if you have parents born before about 1975 they are often as pathologically individualistic, they often don't really hold up their part of the bargain. They want you to come to them even when you have young children, they rarely offer childcare, and they will probably squander what's left of their money getting scammed on some reverse mortgage or on some 2-bd 4k sq ft track housing in some 55+ community 3 hours out of the way and demand everybody go there for thanksgiving. They basically want to retain the status of a patriarch/matriarch but also be the cultural hegemon of youth. You are a perpetual child to them and yet you need to dole out favors like home maintenance they are now too feeble for and administrative tasks that have grown too complicated for them. It's not always this bad but it's a common problem nowadays . I understand exasperation with the young is a universal constant, but I don't know if we've ever lived in a time where the dialogue was dominated by people in various stages of dementia railing against the 30-50 year olds that are doing the bulk of the labor and would normally be holding the baton by now.
No this is pretty spot on. Can’t pay mortgage, refuses to sell and rent, talks about a tiny house in Tennessee, buys silver and cans chicken but still needs money from me monthly. For years I’ve consciously only been in contact because there is a cultural standard that you don’t abandon your parents, especially if you have no siblings, but I just can’t anymore. Especially when (she’s one of those people that posts “I’m from the generation that walked to school and played in the dirt”), on one of the two times my kids see her, she can’t unglue herself from social media while they climb on her to play.
Yeah if you had an otherwise good relationship with her it would be one thing. Rarely when I hear stories of people with parents like this is that the case. The ability to dehumanize people to this degree and a commitment to feeling powerful by proxy as an American almost always maps onto bad character traits that emerge in other ways.
Forgive me if I'm presuming: but it sounds like you're bound by feelings of obligation rather than love. YMMV but personally, I don't think that's a relationship worth preserving. My mother can be infuriating and we don't agree about much. But she has always been on the right side of - you know - *genociding people*. For me, that would be the absolute deal breaker, no matter what else is going in in our lives. And so you know, you youngins aren't actually alone. I'm GenX and my mother is a boomer. Age is not an excuse.
Yeah I’m an elder millennial and she’s right on the boomer-gen x line
Must be American thing. My parents both Eastern Europeans, born before 1975 and are absolute opposite of what you described
Yes, it is
Boomers have brain rot from decades of propaganda. It’s a shame
Boomer here, but I'm not here to say "NoT aLl BoOmErS!" On the contrary, I'm here to point out the irony of my generation's having (correctly) said "Don't trust anyone older than 30" back during the Vietnam War and now being as reactionary as our own parents' generation was in that same era. Just like the olds in 1970 said that the protesters at Kent State got what was coming to them, too many boomers are misplacing their sympathy by simping for the apartheid state and—at best—shedding crocodile tears for Gazans (while completely ignoring what's going on on the West Bank)
>I'm here to point out the irony of my generation's having (correctly) said "Don't trust anyone older than 30" back during the Vietnam War and now being as reactionary as our own parents' generation was in that same era. Genuinely asking, are these the same people? My headcanon was that most of the hippies have died of preventable causes by now (as poor people tend to do) and the "boomers" we have left are mostly the sons and daughters of privilege.
That's a fair point. In any era I'd guess that a lot of people just go along with the values they're supposed to have without actually having them (that's pretty much the definition of *politically correct*). I'd have hoped, though, that contemporaries of the kids murdered at Kent State wouldn't be ranting about protesters today and accusing them of doing violence by making noise & disturbance during finals (an accusation I heard recently). It's as though buying into the norms of being an adult causes memory and empathy loss with who one used to be, and that makes me sad. Perhaps that's why it's called selling out, though.
And the lead.
It's not her fault. She is being targetted from very sophisticated brainwashing campaigns. Her whole youtube facebook etc is probably telling her that Israel is fighting terrorists and not killing and murdering children. Just understand, that she is part of the victims.
Yeah, that’s part of what’s so difficult, is having distain and sympathy for a person as they’re actively spewing hatred.
It kind of reminds me of the people that lost their parents to conspiracy theories during Covid. I remember one guy who’s mothe went from being skeptical to fully inside an alt right pipeline
Covid is where this all started. Kind of her chapel perilous moment and she broke right, so to speak.
Not saying it is an excuse for being ignorant but I think bot growing up with social media makes them way more susceptible to scams and rabbit holes.
CNN brain
People Over 50 are some of the most vapid, retarded, ignorant Motherfuckers out there They are literally the most gullible simple minded bigoted, hateful buffoons to walk the earth. They don’t know what critical thinking is even if it hits them. They live comfortable lives, feeding on nothing but the mainstream media narrative They repeatedly get scammed, and they are extremely arrogant
It's true. I should know. I'm in my 50's. My peers pretty much suck. The youth of today (band reference), however, are very inspiring, imho.
58 here and that doesn't describe my friends AT ALL. And the vitriol in the comments on this post against those 50 is going to cost you support. I think it's more geographic. Most people on the West Coast under 60 are pretty reasonable. I can't speak for other areas because I haven't lived there but it seems flyover country is dominated by Evangelical backwards thinking from birth.
We’re in Camden NJ, so we can see center city Philly across the river. At some point in the 00s working class white people from the city took a hard turn against their own interests.
That's just it. There's no getting through to these people, and if you say something along the lines of "agree to disagree" or "I'm just not going there with you" they act as if their wits are superior and it only makes them double down. It's fucking maddening. If it helps OP I had to do the same with a lot of my family because they're just genuinely shitty and toxic people. Some of us have to go out into the world and find our own tribe, and people who can think critically are often left to wander for a bit. I hate to be so blunt, and you might've ended your relationship with your mom but you have/ had a choice. Kids/ people your age in Palestine don't. In much of human history, being on the right side of it was never easy. It was never the path of lesser resistance.
U could try say to her that israel has been massacring palestinians since before hamas was founded, israel target was not just hamas, also civilians
I'm 64 and turned antizionist last October after a lifetime as a zionist Jew.
That’s brave of you to re-evaluate your worldview
I did it bc I have a conscience and a mind that thinks critically.
Unfortunately, most people don’t.
As I'm finding out. My family shuns me now. But I have to do the right thing.
Thank you so much, you have friends here. Take care friend.
Thank you. Right now I need that!
<3
You're awesome. The greatest mark of a good person is the willingness to call themselves out on being an asshole. Nobody is born perfect. We all have to admit when we're wrong and improve ourselves.
That's really cool. I'm so proud of you
That's amazing! What would you say was the catalyst for you?
Seeing the Gaza genocide in real time on my phone. I began researching the Palestinian side online and the rest is history!
Same here. And I’m losing friends and family left and right asking to start any conversation about the conflict with these 3 questions: * Did Hamas behead babies ? * Does Hamas use rape as a weapon ? * Is Tsahal the most human army in the world ? If they answer yes to these 3 questions I know there is no chance we can still have a relationship. Also, I’ve noticed that the ones saying yes to all 3 have absolutely no interest accessing documents, videos, etc. that would *prove* to them how wrong they are.
Welcome home brother ❤️
If you click on Google news you can see how wildly different the headlines are. Fox headlines are always the most inflammatory. It’s WILD to see the difference in real time
It's basically like watching interdimensional cable; something that was made for an alien. I don't know what they hope to accomplish banning stuff like tik Tok, it's not like that's going to get people to consume media that isn't written for them. When I see a gaunt woman with level 10G blonde hair and huge veneers I don't think "oh this looks legit, I wonder what this normal seasoned professional has to say" It'll just land people on telegram or more obscure websites that are even more extreme.
Hahaha, omg YES I have been thinking this too! So glad someone else gets it and can say it just as hilariously and perfectly as you did.
I did that, yup!
Just want to chime in as a 53F that you’re (mostly) correct. Luckily, there are some of us, including my 72yo mom, who are fully enlightened, eyes WIDE open, about what’s happening. We’re using our voices as loudly as we can and are horrified by all of this. Free Palestine. 🇵🇸
These people seriously think that khamas is rounding up their own families and using them as shields
I saw a video a couple of months ago that was so horrid. A girl was dying after being bombed. her brain was exposed. Her fingers were twitching independently but entirely from the metacarpal joint, in a way that couldn't have been voluntary. It was filmed by the father, the translation revealed that he was chatting with emergency services via video, where he was basically told there was nothing they could do, that she would be dead before they got there. At one point, she seemed to come out of trance and touch her own brain, to which the father desperately said "nononono" - a familiar phrase for anybody with a toddler, when they pull the cats tail or pick up a crystal champagne flute, only it was her grabbing her own brain, while the father was still holding onto to some hope she might live. Anyway, some hasbot showed up in the comments claiming he mutilated his own daughter in that fashion, filmed it, because he just hates Jews so much and wanted to make them look bad. No amount of limiting what I can see will get me to forget that moment. The horror of it, and the reaction of Israel's supporters to it. I have seen so many things in the last few months, but that one changed me forever, and it was the shock of seeing that narrative applied in real time in such a twisted way. Some people cannot be reformed even if they see the truth for themselves.
God damn. I've purposely not been watching the more graphic videos of Israel's genocide against Palestinians, just reading about it makes me so angry, hopeless, and hateful. I think I'm scarred from just your description... Who the fuck says something like that??? Saving your comment to send to anyone who tries to defend Israel's actions.
The best I can come up with is people really deep into this think they are the only sentient feeling people in existence and everyone else is basically an automaton designed to dole out god's punishment or rewards. 99.7% of the world are "NPCs" for lack of a better term, who only exist in so far as their relationship to them. So when they try to conceive of an "inner world" for other people, they can only get as far as what that person feels about them. Not what they would feel for their family friends, but about strangers they have never met. Edit: I am saying this because either the hasbot actually believed this to be true OR thought that the audience they needed to convince was also not sentient or in possession of normal cognition.
I think it’s “main character syndrome” caused by reinforcing the idea since birth that certain people are more special and yet also more vulnerable than everyone else. I grew up in a religious sect (cult?) that also clung to this belief, so I can see how pervasive and radicalizing it is at its core. It really leads to a total lack of empathy and a desperate need to “protect” your in-group, even if there’s not actually any real or substantive threat. It’s why you will often see a knee-jerk reaction that boils down to “we have to destroy the enemy before they have an opportunity to attack us.” You see it in some fundamentalist Christians, for example, that are on the lookout for the devil at every turn. And then the follow-up to that is the consistent Zionist trope of Arab/Muslim bad, our people are surrounded and outnumbered by them, so if they so much as sneeze, we’ll see it as a real menace to our society as a whole. Even though people of all religions and cultures pretty much just want to be able to live in peace and have a decent opportunity to raise their families in a safe environment.
They surprise pikachu face when you tell them that the accusations of Hamas using human shields have been investigated repeatedly and never been proven...but the IDF using human shields *has.* Of course, then they claim that every humanitarian organization and news agency and freaking Wikipedia is being run by Hamas.
Cable news reality. Breaking points did an interesting poll showcasing that
*over 50 in the US.
>I swear everybody over 50 lives in an alternate reality Don't do that. "Everybody" is a big word. P.S. Thank you to the young people that are leading this struggle for justice. Most Americans over 50 are the victims of never ending propaganda.
Have you heard of the "not all men" trope? What you're doing is just like that.
>Have you heard of the "not all men" trope? What you're doing is just like that. Never heard of it. You're welcome to let me know.
There's a full-on Wikipedia page about it [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NotAllMen](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NotAllMen)
old people will tell u not to trust the government and then as soon as the news tells them any made up sh\*t they eat it up like it's cake
they don't trust the gov, but if their favorite party(tm) gets elected, suddenly everything the government is doing is great.
They were fed a steady diet of "any oversight over capital is an infringement of YOUR rights" by capital. And now that everything has gone to shit, they blame oversight.
The capitalist found a very effective way use the people they loot to fight for them.
Facts
That takes a lot of strength homie. Hope you're feeling ok.
Hamas isn’t preventing people from escaping Gaza, Israel and Egypt are!
Plus, escaping Gaza is tantamount to ethnic cleansing.
Well not if we were considering a right of return from Gaza to where their ancestors fled from inside modern day Israel
Deleting Facebook is great. I did it about a decade ago. Never looked back.
Yeah, was a long time coming, insane how hard it was to find the option.
I am frankly amazed you lasted as long as you did. This kind of world view invariably seeps into other aspects of the person's character, and they tend to get worse as time progresses.
How are boomers fr this dumb like how is Facebook full of people genuinely congratulating pics of A.I Jesus on a motorbike made of broccoli? How and why do these people have jobs and own property? Beggars belief
Capitalism
Send her the pictures of the dismantled people. If that doesn't at least slightly change her position, then I am sorry.
Any sources? My parents are those Christians that believe Israel is God's chosen people and can do no wrong, and that anything Israel, no matter how bloodthirsty and genocidal, is justified by the Bible.
The wildest part about the complete BS propaganda line about human shields they all just parrot, Israel has used Palestinians as actual riot shield style human shields when breaching homes in Gaza. It’s projection as propaganda and it’s worked.
And even if the human shield line was 100% fact, hostage negotiators don’t just shoot a kid because they’re between a bullet and a bad guy. Like, in no human shield situation would you just kill the hostage.
It suddenly clicked one day for me that the subtext behind "hamas uses human shields" is "they FORCE US to shoot the human shields"
Yeah... and even though hamas don't use human shields even if they did it is shocking that people are OK wirh the subtext of being 'forced' to kill anyone like you point out
Right, which is why the IDF repeatedly used this tactic breaching buildings with “suspected Khamas” members because they were betting on Palestinians not wanting to shoot another pal, but the IDF just carpet bombs at will pretending it’s waging the safest war with the most care ever for civilian life.
The accusations against Hamas of using human shields have all been investigated and determined to be unfounded. Like, it's right in the Wikipedia page.
They used each other's civilians as human shield instead of their own. IDF proved that they don't give a f by vaporizing everyone indiscriminately. Somehow, there are still idiots believe that IDF is getting asskicked by being moral.
Hundred to one she's a goy evangelical praying for Armageddon. Most zionists are.
Yeah, she took offense at the term Christian nationalist and needed me to explain it, and why Christianity is in direct opposition to nationalism.
I've had very similar conversations with my mother (Boomer ethnic Jew raised Evangelical Xtian). Every time I think I've gotten through to her, by the time we have our next convo, we're back to square one. It's highly exasperating. Lately, she's stopped defending Israel (with me, at least) but is *really* upset that I'm not voting for Biden. I'm voting Green, as I have since 2012. We're not even in a swing state, so who cares really? Every day she sends me "scary Trump" headlines. My usual response is "Biden better hurry up and get a permanent ceasefire, then". Yesterday she sent me one that said "Trump says he'll prosecute Biden unless SCOTUS gives him immunity". My answer was "Don't threaten me with a good time" 😂 I've told her many times she can vote for whoever she wants. I will freely criticize any candidate, but I'm not telling anyone who to vote for or not vote for this November. It sucks that this basic respect doesn't go both ways, as is so often the case in our relationship. I haven't found an answer to it. I hope you're able to find some peace ❤️
They love the old state propaganda when it confirms their bias. Hoover up that shit.
My mom is apart of the “silent generation.” THE FUCKING SILENT GENERATION. Meanwhile on Fb…
You should just send her the NSFW pictures of children and ask her “these victims?”
American "christians" are very very VERY SPECIFIC kind of christians. They use a special bible - scofield bible. There is a crucial difference in it that differentiates it from all other versions. American "christians" chief tenet is support of Israel. Full stop. It is insane, but it is what it is. No other "christian" around the world does this - only American "christians".
Much love to you thru this difficult time.
I too have had to cut free from my mother, so I understand the grief that comes from that. In the end, you have to prioritize your sanity and values. I'm proud of you for making that painful choice.
It’s amazing that even at a time when their countless war crimes is being live-streamed on our phones, that so many people are still in denial. Got into an argument w my sister in law for posting propaganda crap as well. I’m avoiding her and my brother over it—just can’t deal
Im sorry this happened to you. You did the right thing even though it was the hard option and for that i respect you! I hope it gets better
So gross I can’t believe someone would post that
I ended my relationship with my mother last week. It’s heartbreaking. I’m so sorry.
Hugs 🫂
On Twitter, someone shared a similar experience about their father, who held strong Zionist views. Despite so many debates, the father remained closed-minded. The person decided to subtly change his father's Facebook algorithm by liking Gaza posts and disliking Israeli ones, I think. So, the videos coming from Gaza would show up on his page. Over time, he noticed a change in their father's behaviour – his father stopped criticizing Palestinians, and he even saw his father looking up the products to boycott for Gaza. While he hasn't directly confronted his father (because he believes his dad will refuse again due to ego issues instead of apologizing), these small steps were making a difference, albeit slowly. You should try it too
I haven’t had access to the same computer as my mother in 20 years lol. That is good though, some passive way confront them with the brutality. No one is changing their mind mid argument.
How much longer are people (not just boomers) going to repeat this “human shields” bullshit again and again? The level of critical thinking required to debunk that is not much, yet somehow these people think they’re so smart and got it all figured out
I try not to talk politics with my brother and anyone closest to me. I don't think it's worth severing relationship over it - I'd rather we grow ignorant of others' political affiliations. Thankfully my wife is a rabid Pro-Palestine supporter, more extreme than I am, so we agree on almost everything and it's not hard to talk about it.
I’ve successfully avoided it for a long time and have been able to scroll past awful memes. This meme though, just like, evil, and opened the floodgates.
Making my mother a supporter of Palestinians was not easy mainly because it forced her to confront some really hard truths about the people in her life. Still, it has really improved our relationship, and I've seen it lead to her demanding more respect from the rest of my family (who usually treat her like shit). No judgment to the OP, my mom was never this bad!
I love this for you both ❤️
The fact that they took an anti-Semitic meme and turned it around on the Palestinians with no sense of irony whatsoever 💀
I will never understand the "Hamas was using them as human shields, they had to shoot or bomb them to defeat Hamas" line of thought. Maybe, just don't shoot them at all? And even in cases where innocents get killed in cross fire, how can anyone be okay with 40000 kids dead?
In these situations just keep asking "So that justifies killing 15000 children?"
Sorry brother ❤️
Gaza truly has become the moral compass of the world. Any one who doesn’t stand with the Palestinians just shows their deep hatred racism fascism. It’s like it was hidden under the surface all along and now it’s brought to the light.
Oh I’d disown my own kids for that kind of disgusting propaganda 🤢
A zionist is not someone to keep around. They are a danger to the public.
Your mom is too far gone. Good riddance
I am sorry, we cannot imagine how hard it must have been for you. Whenever it is your mother realises her mistake (I hope and pray that she does), she would find some peace knowing her son chose to be on the right side of history. I appreciate every single one of you, who haven’t lost their souls in these dark times.
What an ugly ugly soul
This is heartbreaking, I’m sorry to hear your mom is unable to hear you, and choses to gaslight you
I’m about to do the same to mine honestly for the same reason
There has to be some creative solution for bringing people back to reality.
Dear God, your mother posted this... I'm so sorry.
Yeah your mom is a cunt. Sorry for you :(. Stay strong
The glee with which people punch down on Palestinians disgusts me
Every accusation is a confession.
That’s very brave of you. I’m trying to do the same with genocide deniers in my life
I don’t know why they get like this as they age. My parents are actual hippies, like, we lived in a commune for the first years of my life. But my mom is obsessed with revenge. It’s developed as she’s aged, she wasn’t like this when I was growing up. But now everything is vengeance and getting even. It’s exhausting and irritating,
Wonder how people can just be ok with 14,000+ children being bombed to pieces. It's gotta be a mix of racism, brainwashing, and supremacy.
Israel proved countless timess that everytime IDF terrorists bomb a civilian infrastructure, digital Hamas will automatically spawn afterward. IDF terrorists are simply getting their asses kicked by highly trained Hamas terrorists due to their lack of training and terrible strategy instead of caring too much about civilians. The reality about post WWI warfare is that bombing civilians may damage rival's future economy and development, but won't defeat the enemies because the size of army is just too damn small compare to population size. Even well trained Nazi soldiers couldn't take Moscow after leveling it, because as long as the rubble is still taller than 2 or 3 adult male it still provides perfect cover to local guerrilla, provide great firing position, and prevents vehicles from navigating through. Also the ammunition cost of ensuring one building is unusable for guerrilla fighters might be up to 10 even 100 times more expensive than making it uninhabitable for civilians. This is why Israel also send military engineers and bulldozers into Gaza to detonate and ram buildings for budget sake.
Maybe I just randomly ended up having nontypical examples of generations in my life (these are all friends, I have no living family) but everyone I know who is 50 plus age group tends Left and antiwar. At the State Capitol protests (we have a horrible State Legislature) more than half of the protestors are old people. The Gen X people I know tend to be neocons who hate Russia and Iran etc., think Julian Assange is a criminal and never go to protests.
Christian Zionists don’t make sense because even if the reason for their ideology is that “Israelites are God’s chosen people” many Palestinians actually have Israelite ancestry and their ancestors just converted to Christianity or Islam. Jews do too (DNA wise Palestinians and Jews are genetically closely related), but that doesn’t mean there needs to be a Jewish ethnostate.
Trying to figure out how to navigate the same situation with my dad, who "doesn't understand" why it's so upsetting to me that he justifies and supports genocide
Can’t say I blame you, I’d be horrified if my mother supported this shit
I am sorry for your loss, I hope she regains her sanity and humanity and see the error of her ways.
I am so sorry to read this. Big love to you.
Young westerners these days are getting only a sniff of just how rotten their society is, and it's nauseating to them, as it should be. But it's only just a sniff, and there's a lot of work to be done before the rot can be cleaned away and fresh air can triumph.
Why do these people all repeat the same exact talking points? Can anyone think for themselves anymore???
Zionists are antisemitic AF
I’m so sorry bro
The wrong character actor received the Oscar. It SHOULD go out to all the zios: for playing at "being human."
Eh, I can't condone cutting off one's mother from an Islamic perspective, but yeah I can see how someone with such views can be very frustrating. I would at least keep the door open for help if she needs it financially I suppose...
So sorry…
The picture depicts Palestine as a hideous monster.
Oof❤️
It's not really the same thing, but I think I will have to let go of a 20 year friendship because a really close friend and their family and friends are all like your mom. To be honest, I haven't confronted this person or looked at their social media in fear of what I'll see, but from the FB posts of their friends and family members, it's pretty bad. I don't know how much this friend agrees with them. I kind of went MIA with this person because I just don't know how to approach this. Generally, we have been drifting apart gradually. On top of that, I've had to let go of the political party, organizations, people, and institutions I use to admire, volunteer, and donate because they are either silent or complicit. Overall, it's just been a very disillusioning time.
I'm sorry it got to that point. Hope one day you can work it out. I had a falling out with my cousin about him supporting the military and Israel. We finally talked it out after 3 months and decided we won't talk about this issue anymore since we can't agree on it
Yeah, my 80 year old grandmother asked if my college was protesting and when I said “no, not right now, they’re actually listening to us” she forwarded me a chain email from Shai Davidai. I haven’t messaged her since. It’s a different level of familial relationship, but I really feel for you.
Join the club! Everyone's insane
Is this really your mom? I saw the rest of her post and they feel really angry. I’m so sorry that this went down the way it did.
Yeah, it turned into an all night back and forth that, although I could see how futile and detrimental it was to me, I just couldn’t keep out of it. I actually have pictures of most of the conversation if you’re interested lol. But yes, it’s an anger that’s fueled by fear, a rabbit hole she started down in 2020 and it’s consumed her entire life. It’s sad, but it’s to a point now where any sympathy I have for her is eclipsed by the manipulation and guilt tripping to my wife and I.
Sounds like the issue is less her age but more her location and religious influences.
Hey, sometime needed but it’s such a massive mental toll. Sorry for that shit and props to your courage.
Legacy media is a helluva drug. Eloquent answer though, even if that scratches the surface
u/MattSk87 the only thing I'd disagree with is that you said "the only proof they hit the target..." well, heck, they're carpet bombing the shizzle out of Gaza and hitting everything. I think that pretty much includes the target too. Which makes your point even more poignant, that they do not give one F about anyone in Gaza, Israeli, Palestinian, Gentile, Jew, Adult, or child...they're all little targets running around with HAMAS in big neon letters hanging over their heads.
Yeah. That was a specific reference to Al-Shifa, specific examples didn’t help, but showing an understanding of individual events and reactions at least increases the chances that they might question their narrative.
Your mom must love fox news like my father. The shit he says is fucking mind numbing and I don’t really talk to him anymore because of it
My brother visited me for the first time in a year. He started justifying not doing anything because 'we need to buy stuff from there' and acted like he knows more than someone who has a degree in international law and did their history degree on Palestine... i told him there is literally no justifying killing that many people. These peoples feelings are more important than people dying and that unfortunately doesn't seem to cause them any discomfort at all. I told him to leave because he called me a conspiracy theorist because I was not able to believe him justifying people working for a government that is selling weapons to Israel 'not really knowing' what is happening. He thinks I called him a fascist. I was actually calling him a liberal which is worse but I'm not speaking to him anymore.
My opinion is do not sever ties with your mother. She has been manipulated and brainwashed. Just tell her you won’t talk to her about this issue. You only get one mother.
Not sure if I personally would sever ties with either parent over that but I would end a friendship over it for sure. Pretty fucking unforgivable sentiment.
There’s a lot more to it than this, like 35 years of a rough ride, but this is the point where I refuse to let her influence my children.
Step away from face book and reddit too if you have to.
Love this