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Right? Like definitely everyone, and I mean EVERYONE, sucks, but I kinda feel bad for OOP that basically her OWN MOTHER accused her of 'stealing' her sister's soulmate just because she.... GASP....accepted his invitation to date? The fiancee is the one who approached her at first, why is it so wrong that she accepted?
Do I think that there is some truth to OOP wanting to meet certain goals and milestones and therefore accepting any man who was willing to fill in the role of 'husband' in order to achieve those goals? Yeah, absolutely. But like she said, her boyfriend isn't her sister's property. He was the one who first asked her out and then went on to propose to her. Why is she being villainized for thinking that they were in a reciprocated relationship?
Seriously. Of everyone, Mark is the biggest villain in this story. He essentially said “I have a crush on this underage girl at my work. I’m going to befriend her and then date her older sister because she’s the closest approximation I can get.”
He told OP he loved her. He told OP he wanted to spend their lives together when he decided to propose. But all the while, he’s been making fun of her behind her back with his friends about how lame she is. He knew he’d have rather been with someone else, and he knew she had plans to marry by 30, so he knowingly wasted her time and used her plan to throw the whole thing in her face.
Nobody sounded nice in this whole situation, but Mark is the direct cause of all of the suffering here.
Mark is a living example of “sunk cost fallacy”. Idk how anyone read this whole thing and thought the guy, who proposed so he didn’t have to have a break-up, was in the right.
Mark or mom. I mean this poor girl just not only had her wedding cancelled, she found out her entire relationship was a lie because the guy she was dating really wanted her sister. Her mom's reaction is to blame her. It definitely seemed like OP was a little bit of a bridezilla but with the added context, the sister was definitely trying to upstage her.
Bridezilla is probably harsh, it is pretty clear that they are incompatible. Turning down the costumes and jester makes 100% sense. You are either having that type of wedding or not. She did turn down even the small requests like a few video game covers and such which shows a lack of compromise, if you are going to turn down his big ideas, even for good reason, you can give him things like that. The dress thing was the biggest example but after the added context it is pretty clear the sister was trying to upstage her.
Yeah. I agree. Her biggest wedding crime is the fact that she didn’t offer compromises. However, I also wonder if he was bringing her ideas he knew she would hate. Like, he’s known her for years so he should have a sense of what she’ll like. I think part of being in an adult relationship is coming up with potential compromises prior to presenting your ideas. For example, instead of having *actual* swords, give the groomsmen custom sword cuff links. Or if you really want to include this seamstress, commission personalized DnD themed pocket squares for everyone. Etsy is *right* there if you need other ideas!
Yeah. I don’t blame her for 97% of it. I wouldn’t want a costume party wedding either (a jester??? A toga with leaves??? Absolutely not, no). My boyfriend and I are both a bit nerdy though. I’d like to walk down the aisle to Mice on Venus from Minecraft. I would imagine he’d pick something from Stardew Valley (if it has music, I don’t play that one). I don’t see why she shot down having a few video game songs covered, most people wouldn’t notice anyway.
As far as the best man dress goes, I need to see it to have an opinion about that. At first I thought OOP may be over exaggerating about it since literally everyone else likes it. But it appears that everyone else is an idiot, so… I have no idea what my thoughts are there. (I have been to several weddings where the wedding parties were co-Ed. Generally, the men wore suits/tuxes and the ladies wore dresses, regardless of if they were a bridesmaid or groomsmen. But the male groomsman and male bridesmaids were in different colors. Same for female groomsman and bridesmaids, dresses, but not the same dresses).
As far as the tuxes go, I think she took it too far by not wanting her sister to, at least, have hers tailored. I’m a chesty gal and I would be so uncomfortable in a button up shirt that wasn’t specifically fitted to my figure. I always have safety pins on hand to keep those buttons from popping.
Yeah Mark sucks, and it's so wild that they're making OOP seem like she's crazy for having plans and things she wants to get done by a certain age. That's so normal???
I'm not even worked up about the crush on someone underage thing. With the rest of the story being what it is, it doesn't at all feel like any sort of grooming or anything.
Mark sucks because he was debating breaking up with someone and instead proposed to her. What the fuck are you doing man... He was just afraid of doing anything difficult so he did whatever OOP wanted. He set OOP up for this massive downfall by being a coward. I agree with OOP that all of those wedding ideas were ridiculous. Mark didn't find them ridiculous. If I was THAT far off on what our wedding should look like, I wouldn't be marrying that person.
In the end, life course corrected before marriage/kids, so this isn't the worst outcome, but there were several years wasted by several people because no one (mostly Mark) was willing to have a difficult conversation.
Agree on that, I can’t imagine everyone in your life just…hoping it all goes up in flames? I know OOP is a bias narrator but honestly she doesn’t sound entirely wrong that this John guy was taking some amount of pleasure in telling her all this (thank god he did though).
However, the end note of “I’m definitely not gonna be married by the time I’m 30” made me snort. Maybe she’s being sardonic but yes, that’s definitely the lesson to be taken away from all this 😭
I hope the lesson she learns from this is that marriage and kids aren't just boxes you need to tick off. Those things are a big commitment and doing them with someone who just happens to fill the position at the time doesn't mean they are the right person for you. She ended up wasting years of her life and getting her heart broken because she wanted to marry someone and her ex just happened to reasonably fit the mold of what she wanted.
But also.....why is OOP dating a guy she has nothing in common with and doesn't like anything about?!? It really does sound like she found a guy who ticked the boxes and she just steamrolled ahead. She KNOWS about all of his interests and just....doesn't care about them at all.
Okay, everyone is straight up exhausting. Both aren't compatible to be together and others around really aren't the greatest of people. Truly one of those ESH moments.
This. Like, what did they even talk about? Or do together? Mark seems to have tons of hobbies and things he likes to do, and both him and his friends have tried including her, and she refused. Not to mention she never once says anything about her own hobbies or trying to include Mark in those, either. Her sister is right in saying she just wanted a generic husband. The only things she likes about him are his job, finances, and house. She hates all the things that make him a person, and bizarrely seems like she's barely even a person herself. We know more about what she dislikes than what she likes.
They were only together in the first place bc he didnt think he could get jennifer so he tried flirting woth her sister (sounds like he thought this was next best thing) and she flirted back.
It sounds like Mark had very low self esteem. He didn’t think women liked him so he forced a relationship with the first girl that flirted back, despite not having anything in common, because he thought he wouldn’t get many more chances
Yeah, I'm wondering that too. Maybe there are things they liked to do together, but not deep, personal things. Everyone likes going to the cinema, traveling and etc.
The only reason this relationship worked at all was *because* of the sister. OOP didn’t have to show an interest in any of Mark’s “ridiculous” hobbies because her sister did. She was happy to let them play their silly games as long as she didn’t have to pretend to be interested in them. She *did* just want someone who ticked all the boxes and she could have a generic wedding and a generic life with.
And that? Is really depressing, speaking as a nerd married to a fellow nerd. I can't imagine being with someone who didn't show \*any\* interest in things I like.
Actually, does she even like \*herself\*? I mean, she should have realized they weren't compatible. BOTH of them should have.
Girl is selling herself short if she just wants a generic life with all the boxes ticked. Let those milestones come at their own time. ( yes, I am well aware that the kids by 30 one may be an issue....)
I'm a nerd (F) married to a nerd (M) and it's amazing. However, I was previously married to a nerd (M) and, while I was so excited to have things in common and shared hobbies, he was more like OOP where he just wanted a generic Wife who checked some boxes. He made some moves to get me to stop playing a game we both played, got upset when I was invited to play MTG with his friends, got upset when I got a job at a video game studio. OP definitely didn't like her husband or herself and EVERYONE saw that but her. How sad.
As a nerd married to someone who used to have nerd interests before deciding they hate all of those interests, yeah, it kinda sucks. I go to Dragoncon every year with a group including my kids that gets bigger every year because everyone loves it so much. My husband? Not only will he not go, he can't stand to hear a single thing about it. He won't look at pictures. He responds to texts while we're there with, "whatever."
My interests are all stupid and pointless. His interests (golf, fishing, and baseball) are meaningful and make him a better person.
He sounds like a dick. How hard is it to show some enthusiasm or encouragement for someone you love? The fact that he can’t even muster up a smile and a “I’m so glad you had a good time” is really rude and cold. I don’t even know you and I want to encourage your hobbies. Also—Dragoncon sounds super fucking cool and I’m going to look that up, because I want to go now.
>When I tried to get Mark to weigh in on this, he just said, "It's your wedding, do whatever you want. I guess I'll tell her to do whatever you want."
Because Mark never had a serious conversation with OOP where he stated what he really wanted. Everyone around them realised they were not compatible, but OOP didn't realize that though Mark "tickled all the boxes" he isn't in love with her, he simply goes with the flow. Which is worrying if he ever starts a relationship with Jen.
Self esteem issues and fears of being alone.
PEOPLE WILL DO A LOT to sustain a bad relationship cause in their minds it’s better than being single. Like ironically it’s very easy to apply a D&D saying to this, “no d&d is better than bad d&d.” Being single is better than being together and unhappy
> I asked why he even proposed, if apparently I give him anxiety and he doesn’t even want to move in with me
Why are you trying to marry this man if you think everything he likes is stupid and wierd?!??!?!!??
I mean, he was the one to propose? The reason why she wanted to marry him she said pretty much in the first sentence:
>[He's a] handsome, responsible, intelligent man with a kind heart and a great sense of humor
She never said that. There's a difference between thinking a hobby is stupid and not wanting a hardcore nerd wedding. I play DnD every week and I spend a lot of my time gaming while wearing a Gryffindor robe and drinking from a Witcher goblet, and even I think his ideas are too much.
She can definitely be more respectful about his contributions, yes. At the same time, the comment section is weirdly focused on how she doesn't like him as a person.
>"a handsome, responsible, intelligent man with a kind heart and a great sense of humor"
is literally her first sentence. Not wanting a jester and medival swords at her wedding doesn't mean she doesn't like him as a person.
I agree. I read OP as pretty high-strung, but as far as I can tell, she was also straightforward about everything she wanted, her timeline, etc. and didn't act wishy-washy. Yet for some reason, everyone's ragging on her, as though she was the one muddying things or not being clear, despite that being what Mark is doing? And how everyone else is just...shitting on her.
Damn. I feel bad for her, honestly.
I’m with you on that. Comments are focusing so much on her not seeing their incompatibility and no one putting any blame on him.
These aren’t disagreements about color schemes or whether to get a band or a dj. Dude wanted a full on renn fair wedding.
Considering everyone in her family’s reactions, I’m guessing she has had to make due with “good enough” for anything she wants while in her sister’s shadow her whole life.
A relationship where they kind of like each other was the culmination of that.
Everyone here needs therapy, but OP needs to get the hell away from her family first because I’m 90% sure her sister is taking her wedding date.
Yep, I commented on the original. Her family and sis were straight up bullying her, and her ex was always going to choose her sister.
Sister successfully weaponised body-shaming against OP. She knew she could derail OP's reasonable boundaries by making an issue using something else. Manipulation 101.
Not many people spotted that if it apparently "shouldn't matter" to OP that her sis wears this particular dress...WHY should it matter to sis and ex-fiancé so much?? Hmm...
And if you're one of the wedding party, it's not your day!
Sis was unsupportive, like damn, wear an ugly dress if you actually love your sis. Instead she sicced everyone onto OP because she's the family and ex-fiancés favourite.
Ex-fiance was actually a coward, OP was just a stand-in for her sister all along.
Sis was a snake, badmouthing OP to the group of friends.
I felt so bad for OP, I hope she goes NC with all of these horrible people.
What’s up with fiancé here trying to two the Op what the bridesmaids should wear?
And blaming the Op for fiancé never communicating the issues? That’s fucked up. He’s an adult, and if he felt steamrolled or not supported he should have spoken up, not trashed her to his friends.
The OPs family is trash, and I’m going to bet sister full be dating ex fiancé soon. You know her family will expect her to smile and be happy about it, which is all kinds of fucked up.
This.
OOP’s family sucks. And Mark does too. He wants the sister, but used her as a stand in. I cannot believe the Mom blames OOP for believing that Mark liked, then loved her. They should all be mad at Mark for doing this when he knew he was into her sister. He even proposed rather than break up! He is a coward and if it were my two girls, I’d want him far away from both. Mark is not okay and needs serious therapy to help him know who he is and what he wants. I feel bad for OOP—she didn’t stand a chance with that liar and he selfishly messed with her and her life.
"He wants the sister, but used her as a stand in."
THIS is what stuck out the most to me! It was obvious from her first post that he probably should have been with her sister. Everyone is giving her shit for not sharing hobbies or interests, but if he didn't make it seem like it mattered to him, why would she think she's falling short in that area? Frankly, while I'm more nerdy as well, I am fully on OPs side here. He flirted with her and started a relationship with her only because he didn't think he could pull the girl he really wanted. (Also, saying "I didn't go for her because someone that attracive wouldn't want me" to his fucking fiance?! EW.) He led her on for years, making her think everything was fine. He proposed and let her plan a wedding. He was prepared to marry her, let her throw away her life for him, just so he could remain in her sister's orbit. I'm not saying OP is wholly in the right (she could have found nicer ways to say she didn't like his ideas for the wedding, or could have incorporated some), but I really think that everyone hating on her are missing the point. HE let this go on as long as he did because he couldn't work up the nerve to ask out the one he really wanted to, and now has changed the whole trajectory of her life plan because he couldn't stand up after years and say "this isn't working." I'm honestly super upset for her. It's okay to want to be married and have kids by 30, it starts to get harder and more dangerous every year a woman gets older. It's not impossible, but it makes 30 a perfectly reasonable goal. And she's getting shat all over because *she* knows what she wants and worked towards that goal, when he has been wishy washy and not able to stand up for what he wants for years, and he is the victim here. Give me a break. I hope OP cuts ties with her whole family for making her the bad guy in this.
YES, he is so completely passive in everything in his life, from accepting he can't have the girl he wants so he won't even try, to dating a girl he doesn't really want to, to not even having the guts to break up with her. He just lets life happen to him, and she didn't do anything wrong, she just got caught in the whirlpool of his passivity and sucked in too deep.
If I was dating, and engaged to a man and my sister had thrown herself at him, and he asked for her to be best man and she agreed? I'd have dumped them both.
Op was wildly tolerant of a very inappropriate relationship that neither party seemed to consider how it made her look/feel.
I think the problem is OP is so used to being told she's the problem she writes herself as the problem but when you think long enough about the story, she really isn't.
Don't forget the bit after the dress fiasco where ex kept "jokingly" ogling sis's boobs and the two of them bullied her relentlessly over it. I assumed at that point that they're going to end up together.
I'm such a nerd and a big D&D wedding is the only kind of wedding I've ever heard of that actually sounds like fun and not torture, lol, but I am not OOP and I felt really bad for her. At least John or whatever his name is was honest with her since her ex couldn't bring himself to be.
I really felt like John only did it to be an asshole honestly. The way she described the conversation just seems strange. Like he's rubbing in her face how bad of a match she was for Mark. He's a 42 year old man. What the fuck is he doing lol
He may have been and I'm sure he's just as bad as everyone else in that little group but at least he told her since the guy she was engaged to was too busy being in love with her sister to be bothered to do so. I'm just saying I'm glad she's out of that group of people, they sound awful
They're all adults but honestly reading that shit gave me an emotional flashback to high school. It's identical to the cruel shit teenage girls do to someone who they ostracize from a clique.
Absolutely this. I’m glad other people picked up on it as well. All OOP wanted was a *nice* and traditional wedding. There’s literally nothing wrong with that. I’m a nerd too and I think the ex-fiancé’s ideas were way over the top.
The sister was all too happy to gang up on OOP with the ex and hammer that wedge. She absolutely manipulated and weaponized the situation.
As long as the bride isn’t asking you to change your very self (hair color, color contacts, weight, etc) then yeah, you can suffer through a few hours in an ugly outfit if you care about that person.
But the sister had to make it all about her because Mark is the guy SHE wanted, sister be damned.
Yep, it's clear to me from the description the dress wasn't something you should wear to a traditional wedding *at all*, let alone as a member of the bridal party. To then constantly make jokes at OOPs expense that she was upset clearly points to the sister (and ex) being the AH.
It was Jenn's wedding dress. Standing up next to the groom in her Ren Faire wedding dress, while he's dressed to match. OP was never part of what they wanted at the wedding.
kind of figures, reddits demographics skew heavily towards nerd. as soon as i read that his wedding ideas were all gaming/dnd themed i knew the majority would be on his side. they sound fun to me too but theyre absolutely not 'traditional' ideas and anyone who isnt into that stuff would definitely have an issue with it.
I mean even if you *are* into it, it doesn’t mean it has to be reflected in every aspect of your life. I’m into camping and love my dogs, but that doesn’t mean I want my wedding to be on the side of a mountain and my dog to be a flower girl.
Would that be adorable for pictures? Yes, absolutely. She would be so stinking cute in a little dress and holding a little basket in her mouth.
Sorry, I’m getting off track. The point is, just because you enjoy something doesn’t mean it has to be your entire personality OR the theme of your wedding!
It’s also, from OOP’s perspective, not Mark’s whole personality. He shows her a different side, probably to hide himself from her. So all those renfairesque details look to her like other people showing off at her wedding. Which they wanted to.
Right. His D & D friends wanted him to have a D & D wedding. He may have wanted that too, but that’s not a side of himself that they shared. So all of a sudden, he’s throwing out Renfaire dreams and she has no idea where they’re coming from.
and she never said anything bad about his hobbies. she doesn’t want a girl dressed as an elf at her wedding, she doesn’t seem to mind either the girl dressing as an elf in general, or him playing dnd and video games. i’m a nerd and the only idea of his i liked was the classical versions of video game soundtracks
I started skimming past when it started with wanting daggers and amulets, this dude didn't want a themed wedding he just wanted to play pretend. Just like he was doing with their relationship.
There was another post like this a few years back. The groom posted about wanting a full-on Star Wars convention for a wedding. Cantina reception, the works. He described his fiancée as liking cute things, or something equally dismissive. And no one could understand that the bride wanted a wedding for them while he wanted a Star Wars con for his family and friends. There were never updates, but people acted like he was being wronged by a froo-froo 'zilla. From the way this reads, Jennifer, Mark, and his friends planned the wedding (Ren Faire, DnD, convention, take your pick) that they wanted, right down to Jennifer having a dress already picked out and made for being in the wedding party before was even knew what side she would be on. How was that not sus AF to everyone and the commenters? How is everyone ignoring that Jennifer approached Mark on her 18th birthday and offered herself to him? That they've had characters date in game, etc. Everyone is slamming OP saying that she wants Mark's money or she's trying to tick boxes, but the dude has literally said that he's only not with Jennifer because he thinks she's too attractive for him. OP was absolutely the stand-in and as heartbreaking is it will be for her, it's good that she got out. Now I hope she gets away from her family that co-signed her sister's shenanigans.
Yes! I know I was supposed to hate OOP, but by the time I got to the end I hated everyone and also felt sorry for her. She’s giving Cathy energy, but it sort of feels like everyone is failing at being adults as well. Specifically, what’s up with this grown-ass man with a grown-ass education panic-proposing and just expecting things to get better without couple’s counseling?
Frankly, John’s the real MVP. He may be laughing at her like a jackass, but he’s shooting from the hip finally and communicating the fucking farce to this woman.
I hope OOP grows up and finds purpose, Jennifer finds a nerdy dude who communicates better, and Mark goes to a therapist that helps him deal with whatever happened in his childhood that made him unable to set healthy boundaries with consequences.
Personally I have a strong dislike for the whole, "constantly joking about an issue you're too chicken-shit to discuss seriously" schtick so I started disliking Mark when he dealt with OOP's shittiness re: the dress by turning it into a running joke with Jennifer.
OOP sounds like she was being an asshole but Mark pisses me off way more because he's an asshole in a way that like, claims false moral high ground?
Like oh, I couldn't possibly do "mean" like break up with you or stand up for myself, I'll just turn you into the laughingstock of my friend group. Fuck off.
He was too chicken to have a conversation with the woman he asked to marry but, hey, let's humiliate her and exacerbate her discomfort! That will work out!
I got the impression it was either some kind of extra buxom Renaissance Fair style outfit or a formal version of a costume someone would have at a Comic Con.
OP focused on the revealing aspects of it, but I imagine that the actual style of the dress was probably not particularly neutral or subtle.
Like being upset about someone's body is one thing - it's not like the sister can just leave her boobs at home that day. Being upset that someone with a large bust shows visual evidence of the fact that they have boobs is dumb. But an unconventional style in eye grabbing colors is definitely something that could be disruptive. While of course being a Bridezilla and insisting you should be the utter center of everyone's attention isn't cool, I can see why a prospective bride might be a little miffed to be spending thousands of dollars on a wedding dress only to have a member of the wedding party divert all the attention due to their deliberately eye catching outfit.
Like yeah, everyone will see the beautiful bride but if one of the groomsmen dresses like fuckin Robin of Locksley then they're going to get all the attention, you know?
From the sounds of it, Jennifer and Mark will be hooking up soon, and their shaming/jokes about OOP will be the thing that initially binds them together. Until they disagree on what theme they want for the wedding.
And it would do some good for OOP to get some distance away from her family, who clearly have Jennifer as the favored child.
Also the kids thing?
Like it sounded like OOP knew what she wanted there and it's completely fair to have a timeline for it especially relating to kids. Lots of people I know want to have them while they're young enough and also well established enough. It sounded like she'd communicated that to him and he was going along with it despite not agreeing. That's not something you can just go along with.
She still sounds awful and like she bulldozes him but if they'd broken up at the kids convo or he broke up with her rather than proposing they'd've both been better off.
Yeah; while she might have been a bit oblivious to his clear emotional constipation, it's not unreasonable to assume that if you are *extremely* clear on what you want in your life vis a vis marriage and children, and the dude stays with you and proposes; that he's at least somewhere on the same page.
Exactly. I can't exactly blame her for thinking he wanted to marry her when he *proposed*. She's clearly talked about her timeline enough that he knows what she wants and literally everyone I know who does that would see the proposal as agreement.
Admittedly they also had proper conversations where both were engaged on the topic so they already knew the other person wanted for example 2 kids and to be married at around the 5 year mark of the relationship as one of them felt that was the longest they could do without commitment and if someone couldn't commit after that then it was time to move on. They ended up engaged at the 2 year mark and married after 4 years.
Seriously, every single person in this situation is trash. Like, this goes beyond two people who aren't compatible, every other person involved is also shitty.
That was my thought on reading it, every single person in this story is an asshole. I reckon the sister is either going to sleep with the ex or drive him away trying to sleep with him.
>I don't know if I messed this up or if everyone else were the assholes here.
Let's be honest, everyone single person in this situation is asshole either due being an incompatible exhausting mess \~or\~ being enabler / yes-person who didn't bother to say anything critical for entire duration of the relationship until it escalated to point of no compromises and relationship-killer. At least only good thing coming out of this, is at least it ended at wedding planning phase and not after marriage nor any kids / pregnancy involvement....
Yes, esh. Even though op is exhausting, I feel bad for her. Everyone is rooting against her but no one really told her until now. If she'd known about her sister's feelings, maybe things would have been different.
I read other comments saying op wants to win something over her sister by getting with the now ex but it seemed to me that he flirted with her and was the one initiating the relationship.
Right? If Jennifer felt strongly enough about Mark to tell her she’s old enough to fuck on her 18th birthday, they had two whole years to do something before OOP and Mark even began talking, much less a first date and becoming serious. There were numerous off ramps for Mark to pursue Jennifer, Jennifer to inform OOP she actually likes the guy, and Mom to step in to encourage/discourage as she would have liked.
Exactly. OOP was really full steam ahead on her plan to marry before 30 and to have a wedding that only she wanted but at least she was up front with what she wanted. Everyone else just let it happen and didn't advocate for themselves. Even at the end, Mark was so passive and waited for OOP to do the breaking up.
Literally every person lol. Even the mom is an asshole, putting all the blame on OP when Mark is the one that flirted with her and basically just kept rolling with it through obvious incompatability.
Seriously, OP sounds kind of self absorbed and completely unaware that other people aren't bit players in a show starring her, but getting with the sister of the girl you're *really* into just because she seems to be the only one interested in you is... Not really it. They were both kind of using each other, tbh.
So like yes, to me, all of his ideas for the wedding were cringe and stupid. But he needs someone that will match his freak. I’m friends with a bunch of dnd nerds, I don’t think, or god, I hope they wouldn’t, want any of this shit at their weddings, but if I was a bridesmaid and I had to wear elf ears I would because I’m a great friend. But I *wouldn’t marry someone who wanted that shit*, because clearly we’re different people. OP was exhausting, mark is clearly a big nerd who maybe needs to grow up, but at the same time, he just needs someone to match his freak.
I will say that the music idea sounded like something that really could have worked. He didn't even want the original game music, he wanted classical versions played. That's a great compromise. There are some wonderful compositions out there.
It sounds like by that time she was just shutting any of his ideas down.
All of these people sound awful. OOP for sure but I also kind of feel bad for her. Mark was an idiot to propose when he wasn’t into her really, I think he just wanted to be close to Jennifer. Jennifer and Mom sound like a pair, I bet you anything Jennifer and Mark will get together soon and OOP will be told to deal with it, but OOP will still be ridiculous.
Everyone here sounds unpleasant.
also did no one notice the line where Mark tells OP he thought Jennifer was “too attractive to want him” which is him basically flat out telling his fiancé that he finds her sister more attractive than her, cause I guess OP wasn’t too attractive to want him. don’t get me wrong, everyone sucks here, but what a shitty thing to say lol
I'm guessing Jennifer is the golden child. I cannot for the life of me imagine telling one daughter that her fiance was meant for her sister. That's disgusting.
Everyone sucks some, but OOP sucks the least. I think OOP’s sister is going to find out very quickly just how badly her sister sucks. Sister is going to be banging her ex in less than a week. And sister is going to be bring her ex to all the family functions, and everyone will be gushing about how perfect they are right in front of OP. And OP will be expected to sit there and take it.
To me, the reason I think OP sucks is that you don’t get to the point of almost marrying a guy THIS deep in geek culture without being aware that he’s THIS deep into geek culture. Did she look at the giant canvas of middle earth in his living room or whatever and think “Hmmm Mordor… I wonder what part of Europe that’s in…” - If you’re with a nerd you’re aware you’re with a nerd. This post reads like he suggested these wedding things one at a time. His suggestion is a 100% nerd themed wedding. She wants a 0% nerd wedding. The same thing happened in the house move in. Why is she shocked Pikachu face when she learns that they aren’t compatible?
If Jennifer is as attractive as OP says, maybe she will keep Mark on the line forever and not reel him in. Also, as attractive as OP claims he is, he's acting like a putz so why would a 10 want him any more than what he's gives?
These people each clearly do not have room for the other one in their lives. Time to move on. OP has a stick up her ass but having said that, I don't think I would want a nerd core wedding with basement mead either.
I’m a huge geek and a cosplayer but even I think it’s perfectly to fine not to make that my whole personality, never mind my whole wedding. The ex and his friends group are too emotionally immature and OOP is too rigid, but everyone around them suck, too.
Same (tho I only started to cosplay recently), and while some of the groom’s ideas were cool, what he wanted was a bit too much. And you have to think about the guests too, because while your nerdy friends might be ok with that, what about the families??? Will they be dressed formally and uncomfortable because they don’t fit? Imagine for a second that is Jen’s and the groom’s wedding, then what about people like OOP that doesn’t get the references and are stuck in a party that is clearly not for them because they wanted to support the couple?
That’s the kind of thing you do for a birthday with your friends, not in a wedding. Or at least, not to the extent that the groom wanted. I get a few decorations here and there, and maybe letting the friend dress as an elf, but that’s it
I also cosplay and play DnD fairly regularly and even I wouldn't want some nerd esque themed wedding.
Not everyone is gonna be as into it as I would be, costumes are *hella* expensive, and it would be absolutely exhausting to be in character for an entire day.
That whole section of OOP talking to John, and lots of lines saying "tore into John," and "John laughed it off," I was still seeing both sides through that section. Some people love tradition and formalities, and others just want a hobbit party in Vegas. Neither is wrong, but they are certainly incompatible. But John wasn't there for both sides. He just wanted Mark to have the D&D wedding with basement mead.
At least he revealed that the couple was not compatible, which is the high point of all this. But it really is ESH.
I’ve been to weddings all across the board. One was a Halloween themed followed by the bride and groom playing Metal at a bar (formal band). Officiant was a certain horror villian, “Bob Ross” was the best man. It was certainly unique and overall quite nice because they did exactly what they wanted. Also been to some formal ones that were great and some that were awful. Myself, we did Friday the 13th in a park followed by hot pot and this trippy interactive exhibit. It was perfect.
Go for whatever works for ya.
For those unfamiliar with the puppet wedding, enjoy! [https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/w4z647/comment/ih50d8l/](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/w4z647/comment/ih50d8l/)
That's completely crazy and weird, but at least it's something they both want... Makes the whole thing seem borderline wholesome compared to the mess of the OOP"s situation here.
I’m actually down with basement mead, but that’s such a SPECIFIC vibe that you need both people marrying to be so explicitly into it for it to work, like oop needed to also be a ren faire dnd rp nerd for it to even work
Right?? I went to my ex’s cousin’s wedding several years ago. The bride and groom were BOTH this exact type of nerd.
It was the week of Halloween; guests were asked to wear costumes. The bride wore custom chainmail and the officiant was the couple’s dungeon master. It was the nerdiest thing I have ever seen and it was kind of amazing.
I don’t share any of those particular interests, but the whole thing was so THEM that it felt extremely charming and sweet.
I’m trying to imagine attending a wedding like that where only one half of the couple likes that kind of stuff—the idea is just so bizarre I can’t even process it!
She's not unreasonable for any of her wants besides the dress/tuxedo thing. They were just incompatable and neither one of them was mature enough to break it off
I feel so, so bad for OOP though. its obvious that her sister is the golden child, and while OOP is immature and stubborn the rest of the people are manipulative and verbally/emotionally abusive
Her ex and the rest of her family deserve each other, but I hope OOP cuts them all off and builds a good life for herself where she's surrounded by love and support
I am betting they wanted her to be conveniently in a bridal-ish dress so when OOP inevitably drops out of the wedding they can swap Jen in for the bride.
Yeah, just utterly incompatible. I was super envious when I heard a coworker’s son was going to watch a LotR marathon and dress up and drink mead with his buddies but I’d draw the line at having a themed wedding. I mean if both parties are on board, good for them, but I empathise with OOP for just wanting a normal wedding to look back on. Also can’t force someone to enjoy gaming, like her sister bought her a switch. There’s much more to life than just that. Seems like Mark really wanted a Jennifer all along and duped OOP and himself. OOP’s requests would not seem demanding or difficult if she were with the right partner and surrounded by the right people tbh. And am I the only one to think it a tad unprofessional that Mark and Jenn’s boss is getting involved. A few too many opinions on their relationship floating around. Ultimately he made a good call, I guess.
This reads like nerd bait. With that being said, I'd definitely dress up like a dryad if I ever planned on getting married, so it's clear which side of this hobby and aesthetic divide I'm on, but I still dislike the sister and ex-fiance characters way more than the main character.
Oh 100%:
- the groom and the sister have Reddit-approved hobbies / wedding-aesthetic✔️
- the bride is jealous and controlling ✔️
- the bride doesn’t care about the groom’s wishes ✔️
- the bride doesn’t even appear to like the groom and only wants to be married to fit her preconceived perfect timeline ✔️
And for all this I’m supposed to ship a man having an emotional affair with his bride’s sister? Fuck that noise.
Don't forget the sister with nerdy interests is so much more attractive than the protagonist, and while the nerdy ex-fiancee doesn't think she's into him, she actually really loves him so much that she's not even waiting five minutes after the protagonist's engagement ends to imply she wants him.
This is so true. She barely talked about her own ideas or wants. They were all “generic”. She wanted off the rack dresses and it’s said like three times that she turned down custom-made gowns that one of his friends would kindly pay for all because she was jealous.
The dude is “28, handsome, a phd, and has his own house”, but is also an omega-nerd who is drop-dead gorgeous but doesn’t know it, has the time to regularly game with friends, all while being in a years-long relationship with one of the most demanding people on the planet. He’s either imaginary or he’s kryptonian.
100%. Also, why did the first post mention that they both work for “John” even though he had absolutely nothing to do with the post, only for him to *coincidentally* play a pivotal role in the update? Do people just like shouting out their employers in case they become relevant in they future?
Mark sucks the worst here. He had no business proposing when he himself wasn’t sure if the relationship was working. You don’t get married and “hope” for things to get better. You marry someone as they are.
And you ESPECIALLY don’t propose if you have a crush on her sister. Jesus Christ. Who does that?!?
And shit talking your fiancée to your friends is beyond a bad idea.
Her family sucks too. All of these people need to get far, far away from each other.
>And shit talking your fiancée to your friends is beyond a bad idea.
Especially when one of your friends is said fiancé's sister (that you also have a crush on). It's just so mean.
This, so much. Also, how likely was a Yes Person like Mark to actually state 'I want XYZ wedding thing because it matters to me /however I appreciate your own preferences so let's discuss and compromise'.
He's likely been just giving her weak bids for wedding options, like 'John says he could make some mead', or 'Kate wants to be an elf'. she says something like 'eww I'm not keen on homemade alcohol and wtf Kate it's a wedding?' and he goes back and says 'yeah she shot me down again, she is always shooting me down'.
This! People are so hard on OOP, but she really had no idea how he was feeling about anything because he didn’t tell her. Her family are horrible and she deserved better than this relationship.
Yeah, I actually have the least sympathy for Mark here. It sounds like he never liked OOP at any point...but he's the one who asked her out. He's the one who flirted with her. He's the one who proposed. All while being really into her sister, who actually had made overtures at him before.
Like why even waste her time? The girl he liked tried to get him to date her before. Just...date her instead.
Yup. Most comments are saying “both people are the worst” but really Mark is the one who is the asshole here.
Nobody was forcing him to date or propose to a woman he didn’t even really like. OF COURSE she would want to decorate her house and have children and make a life for her and her husband. Those are not unreasonable expectations, and Mark just agreed and secretly resented her, then later accused her of being controlling and making him feel suffocated.
Sir, if you didn’t like her, her taste, her life dreams, and you were in love with her sister, then WHY THE HELL DID YOU PROPOSE? She’s the one who broke it off, too. I think he would have literally gone through the wedding, never saying anything and secretly hating her.
OP needs to get away from these people.
OOP needs to take a break from this whole family. It doesn't seem that she has anyone on her side, and worse, she appears to have been the butt of many jokes where neither her ex or her sister defended her.
These two are definitely going to get engaged and her family will expect her to be at their wedding to show her support for the "real" couple.
This for sure. She was a running gag for years with her husband, his friends, his work collegues, her sister, her mother and not one person suggested he perhaps have a conversation with her or stop mocking his gf or break up with her if he doesn't even like her. Like, what a betrayal. All OP has done is try to plan a wedding she's taking seriously and wants to be the bride in.
Meanwhile everyone else wants to throw a comicon staring Jen but not mention it it the bride, just act like she's crazy and mean for not wanting that.
Couples have disagreements about weddings all the time and come to compromises.
If the disagreement devolves into a fiance's sister and future husband regularly mocking her together to her face... like, why the fuck are you still getting married? All these people suck.
And probably could sense that her partner didn’t quite love her either… since all his ideas for supposed their day of commitment didn’t involve her at all.
I felt the same way. I felt kind of sorry for her but everyone talks about how bad she is, not that Jennifer and Mark were talking shit about her.
And mom needs to realize that Mark didn't ask Jennifer out, he asked out OOP. It's not her fault that Jennifer didn't get the guy.
That mom, no wonder OOP's so jealous of her sister, her mom is constantly telling her she's not good enough and that she stole him from her sister. With a mom like that it's a miracle she doesn't feel worse towards her sister.
Ugh, I can see this happening. This time next year, she's wearing a guest dress (because, let's be honest, her family doesn't like her) and being told to smile for the pictures.
Is she a prick? Yes, but damn, is Mark not a grown ass man able to speak up? He just went along with everything! Instead of communicating that the relationship wasn't working, he went straight to insulting her!
That bugged me as well. Like, he’s not a victim - he is a grown man with a phd and house. She sounds like from the beginning she was clear what she wanted in a relationship. When he realized they weren’t on the same page, he should have spoke to her instead of running to his friends and her sister. OP sounds exhausting to me but I don’t think it’s fair how her family and friends are treating her as well.
If this is real, I hope sister and ex never get together or ruin their friendship when they do try. Because they certainly do not deserve to have their relationship work out after how they've treated OOP. She's no saint, but everyone going on about how sister and ex should be together? What a bunch of assholes...
Every single person in this story sucks. A lot. I think OOP should extract herself from all these people and go find folks she meshes with. She seems exhausting but not horrible.
Honestly OOP is the one I have the most hope for. She's currently surrounded by people with no respect for her while everyone else has social backup. I'd say it's amazing how much pleasant people can get when their peers don't obviously resent them for not being someone else.
I agree. She doesn't care for Mark's interests, but that doesn't automatically mean she doesn't care for Mark himself. I think he sucks much more than her because he should have let her go rather than proposing. OOP is a little tiresome, but I don't read any ill intent in her - I can't say the same for the rest of these people.
Tbh I find it hard to hate on Oop too much. She definitely did not respect her partner’s hobbies but that is something very possible to improve on. Especially if she finds people more on her page, which does not seem to be anyone in her own family unfortunately.
I'm still on Team OOP here, even though I'm a card carrying geek who will probably have a geeky themed wedding if/when I do get married. Does her ex-fiance even like her? Does her sister like her? Does her mother? You can shit on her for not being super involved about her husband's hobbies, but that is not a personality flaw. The bigger problem here is that everyone else seems to "know" that Jennifer and ex "are perfect for each other" but ex refused to actually break up with her. And I find it hilarious that the people who get mad at folks who date their sibling's exes are defending Jennifer now. She's an even bigger asshole for trashtalking her sister to her friends AND her mother.
Agreed. Do I think she handled the wedding planning terribly, and needed to be reminded that being inclusive of both the bride and groom's personalities was more important than a perfect magazine aesthetic? Yes. Do I think everyone else sucks for...pretty much everything else about her relationship with her ex/fiancé? Yes.
Girl knows that she wants a husband and kids. There's nothing wrong with that. Or the hope that she'll be married by thirty. Because sure people can find love later, but you know what happens when everyone tells you "be patient, you have plenty of time" for years? Nothing. You only find love if you're out there looking. And women do have a deadline on that stuff.
So this whole "I had to propose because you've been clear you had a timeline"...Dumbass, that was your cue to realise that if you didn't want the same things as her, you should get the fuck out of her way and let her find a person who does share her feelings. Also settling for someone that's interested but you don't have reciprocal feelings for, purely because you have an inferiority complex and you don't want to ask out the person you're truly interested in? Is a truly unethical thing.
And as for the dress Jennifer wanted to wear...I initially thought that OP was being OTT, but given the later revelations of everyone else's thoughts about the whole relationship, there's a part of me that wonders if it might actually have been designed for her to outshine the bride, and the sister/friends were all using it deliberately to try and derail the wedding.
This! When I read the description I was like?? So a super over the top dress that perfectly accentuates her body and makes her stand out in a wedding that’s not hers? I’ve been to a few weddings and I’m jennifer’s age, but the first thing I look for is something that’s pretty but also a bit boring so I don’t stand out in any way, as the wedding should be about the bride. That was 100% intentional. Who gets a tailored dress like that for a wedding when you’re not the bride?
Jennifer also had the dress picked out, either already designed and made or mocked up and ready to make before she was even asked to be in either wedding party. OP mentions how much everyone already likes it and how they all love the seamstress friend. I bet it looks like one of her character designs that dated Mark's character in their campaign.
My husband and I aren’t super into each others hobbies. We support them, but he’s not outside working in my garden or helping me work on transforming old furniture and I’m not spending hours with his hobby. It’s totally ok for people to have separate hobbies and not make their lives all about said hobbies.
Yep, and I'm totally judging Mark and Jennifer and their entire circle since they seem to be the "GEEK IS OUR ONLY PERSONALITY" types. Like, does Mark watch movies with OOP? Go with her to her own hobbies and interests? Why is everything about what he's into???
The whole time I read this, I'm wondering why they're together to begin with. I know it's being written "post-problem" so negative bias but everything she said made it seem like they don't have a single thing in common.
Everyone here is being stupid.
I don't care how tiresome OOP is, at least the poor woman used her words. Her fiance and her own sister turned her into a running gag behind her back so yeah, she's a little obsessed with marriage for the sake of it but he and Jen are obsessed with turning her into a laughingstock.
And I don't care how platonic they insist they are, if I had a sister who shook her maracas at my man to taunt me, I'd falcon punch those wobblers into space. There are limits of human decency involved and ignoring them because your partner won't drink your buddies' homemade viking urine is a little much.
everyone in this story sounds tiring. but..
“Jennifer said that she tried really hard to have this work out because she just wants Mark to be happy” is such a crazy sentence to me. no mention of wanting her own sister to be happy. none of these people should be associated with each other anymore.
How do people with no matching interests go so far into a relationship? The guy has way too low of a self esteem and in an ideal world should have broken off long before it got to marriage.
Toxic low self esteem.
He agreed to date someone he wasn't that interested in, because he couldn't imagine that the person he was interested in (her sister!!!) would like him back. He'd rather settle romantically than risk his all-important friendship changing.
Even though the sister had actually indicated her interest.
And he decided to propose not because he wanted to, but because he knew his girlfriend had life goals and he didn't want to admit that their goals didn't align.
ESH for real. The sister is clearly in love with the fiancée. The mother is blaming OOP, yet nobody is holding Mark accountable. He chose to date the younger sister of his female friend. He's not innocent. Instead of communicating with his fiancée, he chose to confide in her sister. He was bringing a 3rd party into their relationship.
No, they aren't compatible. Not even close. OOP is better off without him in her life. He's not emotionally mature enough for a long-term relationship, much less a marriage. He doesn't take accountability for his decisions. Nobody forced him to propose. Nobody forced him to ask her to move into his house. He can't communicate in a constructive manner. OOP has her faults as well. Yes, she became a bridezilla. Yes, she is more concerned with her little list of goals versus knowing and loving the man she was about to spend her life with.
In time, OOP will be glad she gave the ring back.
I agree but maybe she wouldn't be as much as a beidezilla if they didn't give her so manu reasons to doubt herself. Like her ex seemed to ne in love with her sister. I get what she did was dumb and wrong but I understand not wanting her sexy and next to him on your wedding.
Lmao Mark basically admitted he was with Jennifer’s sister because she’s the lesser attractive one who he thought he had more of a chance with and the age gap was more reasonable. Everyone sucks here.
Idk why people think oop is a bad person. It's normal to have a plan of life and it's normal to have a standard for a wedding. I'm a weeb myself and these weebs can gtfo.
I feel really bad for OOP and everyone here reading this all in one summarial go for what is basically a huge part of her life are all being so judgy and narrow minded. How sad for her
I actually feel sorry for OOP because it feels like everyone in her life was actively working against her. She definitely messed up and they were incompatible, but Jennifer, Mark, and OOP's mother are definitely assholes.
And Mark *knew* that they were incompatible, but never bothered to tell OOP that he didn't care for her plans. *She* was upfront about what she wanted, any reasonable person would assume that (in that situation) a lack of rejection is an agreement to those wants.
I don't think it's necessary for the hobbies to be similar but at least have a little respect for what your partner is into. There are ways to incorporate nerdiness into a wedding without it being overpowering, but both people need to be willing to compromise.
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I mean OOP is a lot but her family and ex were rooting against her. Like damn, just let her waste her life on someone who doesn’t want her.
Right? Like definitely everyone, and I mean EVERYONE, sucks, but I kinda feel bad for OOP that basically her OWN MOTHER accused her of 'stealing' her sister's soulmate just because she.... GASP....accepted his invitation to date? The fiancee is the one who approached her at first, why is it so wrong that she accepted? Do I think that there is some truth to OOP wanting to meet certain goals and milestones and therefore accepting any man who was willing to fill in the role of 'husband' in order to achieve those goals? Yeah, absolutely. But like she said, her boyfriend isn't her sister's property. He was the one who first asked her out and then went on to propose to her. Why is she being villainized for thinking that they were in a reciprocated relationship?
Seriously. Of everyone, Mark is the biggest villain in this story. He essentially said “I have a crush on this underage girl at my work. I’m going to befriend her and then date her older sister because she’s the closest approximation I can get.” He told OP he loved her. He told OP he wanted to spend their lives together when he decided to propose. But all the while, he’s been making fun of her behind her back with his friends about how lame she is. He knew he’d have rather been with someone else, and he knew she had plans to marry by 30, so he knowingly wasted her time and used her plan to throw the whole thing in her face. Nobody sounded nice in this whole situation, but Mark is the direct cause of all of the suffering here.
Mark is a living example of “sunk cost fallacy”. Idk how anyone read this whole thing and thought the guy, who proposed so he didn’t have to have a break-up, was in the right.
Mark or mom. I mean this poor girl just not only had her wedding cancelled, she found out her entire relationship was a lie because the guy she was dating really wanted her sister. Her mom's reaction is to blame her. It definitely seemed like OP was a little bit of a bridezilla but with the added context, the sister was definitely trying to upstage her.
If not wanting mead, a jesture and costumes at my wedding makes me a bridezilla, I guess I’ll have to be a bridezilla
Bridezilla is probably harsh, it is pretty clear that they are incompatible. Turning down the costumes and jester makes 100% sense. You are either having that type of wedding or not. She did turn down even the small requests like a few video game covers and such which shows a lack of compromise, if you are going to turn down his big ideas, even for good reason, you can give him things like that. The dress thing was the biggest example but after the added context it is pretty clear the sister was trying to upstage her.
Yeah. I agree. Her biggest wedding crime is the fact that she didn’t offer compromises. However, I also wonder if he was bringing her ideas he knew she would hate. Like, he’s known her for years so he should have a sense of what she’ll like. I think part of being in an adult relationship is coming up with potential compromises prior to presenting your ideas. For example, instead of having *actual* swords, give the groomsmen custom sword cuff links. Or if you really want to include this seamstress, commission personalized DnD themed pocket squares for everyone. Etsy is *right* there if you need other ideas!
Yeah. I don’t blame her for 97% of it. I wouldn’t want a costume party wedding either (a jester??? A toga with leaves??? Absolutely not, no). My boyfriend and I are both a bit nerdy though. I’d like to walk down the aisle to Mice on Venus from Minecraft. I would imagine he’d pick something from Stardew Valley (if it has music, I don’t play that one). I don’t see why she shot down having a few video game songs covered, most people wouldn’t notice anyway. As far as the best man dress goes, I need to see it to have an opinion about that. At first I thought OOP may be over exaggerating about it since literally everyone else likes it. But it appears that everyone else is an idiot, so… I have no idea what my thoughts are there. (I have been to several weddings where the wedding parties were co-Ed. Generally, the men wore suits/tuxes and the ladies wore dresses, regardless of if they were a bridesmaid or groomsmen. But the male groomsman and male bridesmaids were in different colors. Same for female groomsman and bridesmaids, dresses, but not the same dresses).
As far as the tuxes go, I think she took it too far by not wanting her sister to, at least, have hers tailored. I’m a chesty gal and I would be so uncomfortable in a button up shirt that wasn’t specifically fitted to my figure. I always have safety pins on hand to keep those buttons from popping.
Yeah Mark sucks, and it's so wild that they're making OOP seem like she's crazy for having plans and things she wants to get done by a certain age. That's so normal???
I'm not even worked up about the crush on someone underage thing. With the rest of the story being what it is, it doesn't at all feel like any sort of grooming or anything. Mark sucks because he was debating breaking up with someone and instead proposed to her. What the fuck are you doing man... He was just afraid of doing anything difficult so he did whatever OOP wanted. He set OOP up for this massive downfall by being a coward. I agree with OOP that all of those wedding ideas were ridiculous. Mark didn't find them ridiculous. If I was THAT far off on what our wedding should look like, I wouldn't be marrying that person. In the end, life course corrected before marriage/kids, so this isn't the worst outcome, but there were several years wasted by several people because no one (mostly Mark) was willing to have a difficult conversation.
Agree on that, I can’t imagine everyone in your life just…hoping it all goes up in flames? I know OOP is a bias narrator but honestly she doesn’t sound entirely wrong that this John guy was taking some amount of pleasure in telling her all this (thank god he did though). However, the end note of “I’m definitely not gonna be married by the time I’m 30” made me snort. Maybe she’s being sardonic but yes, that’s definitely the lesson to be taken away from all this 😭
I hope the lesson she learns from this is that marriage and kids aren't just boxes you need to tick off. Those things are a big commitment and doing them with someone who just happens to fill the position at the time doesn't mean they are the right person for you. She ended up wasting years of her life and getting her heart broken because she wanted to marry someone and her ex just happened to reasonably fit the mold of what she wanted.
But also.....why is OOP dating a guy she has nothing in common with and doesn't like anything about?!? It really does sound like she found a guy who ticked the boxes and she just steamrolled ahead. She KNOWS about all of his interests and just....doesn't care about them at all.
Okay, everyone is straight up exhausting. Both aren't compatible to be together and others around really aren't the greatest of people. Truly one of those ESH moments.
Yeah. Why are they even dating?
How were they able to date as long as they did is my question?
This. Like, what did they even talk about? Or do together? Mark seems to have tons of hobbies and things he likes to do, and both him and his friends have tried including her, and she refused. Not to mention she never once says anything about her own hobbies or trying to include Mark in those, either. Her sister is right in saying she just wanted a generic husband. The only things she likes about him are his job, finances, and house. She hates all the things that make him a person, and bizarrely seems like she's barely even a person herself. We know more about what she dislikes than what she likes.
They were only together in the first place bc he didnt think he could get jennifer so he tried flirting woth her sister (sounds like he thought this was next best thing) and she flirted back.
It sounds like Mark had very low self esteem. He didn’t think women liked him so he forced a relationship with the first girl that flirted back, despite not having anything in common, because he thought he wouldn’t get many more chances
Yeah, I'm wondering that too. Maybe there are things they liked to do together, but not deep, personal things. Everyone likes going to the cinema, traveling and etc.
The only reason this relationship worked at all was *because* of the sister. OOP didn’t have to show an interest in any of Mark’s “ridiculous” hobbies because her sister did. She was happy to let them play their silly games as long as she didn’t have to pretend to be interested in them. She *did* just want someone who ticked all the boxes and she could have a generic wedding and a generic life with.
And that? Is really depressing, speaking as a nerd married to a fellow nerd. I can't imagine being with someone who didn't show \*any\* interest in things I like. Actually, does she even like \*herself\*? I mean, she should have realized they weren't compatible. BOTH of them should have. Girl is selling herself short if she just wants a generic life with all the boxes ticked. Let those milestones come at their own time. ( yes, I am well aware that the kids by 30 one may be an issue....)
I'm a nerd (F) married to a nerd (M) and it's amazing. However, I was previously married to a nerd (M) and, while I was so excited to have things in common and shared hobbies, he was more like OOP where he just wanted a generic Wife who checked some boxes. He made some moves to get me to stop playing a game we both played, got upset when I was invited to play MTG with his friends, got upset when I got a job at a video game studio. OP definitely didn't like her husband or herself and EVERYONE saw that but her. How sad.
As a nerd married to someone who used to have nerd interests before deciding they hate all of those interests, yeah, it kinda sucks. I go to Dragoncon every year with a group including my kids that gets bigger every year because everyone loves it so much. My husband? Not only will he not go, he can't stand to hear a single thing about it. He won't look at pictures. He responds to texts while we're there with, "whatever." My interests are all stupid and pointless. His interests (golf, fishing, and baseball) are meaningful and make him a better person.
He sounds like a dick. How hard is it to show some enthusiasm or encouragement for someone you love? The fact that he can’t even muster up a smile and a “I’m so glad you had a good time” is really rude and cold. I don’t even know you and I want to encourage your hobbies. Also—Dragoncon sounds super fucking cool and I’m going to look that up, because I want to go now.
>When I tried to get Mark to weigh in on this, he just said, "It's your wedding, do whatever you want. I guess I'll tell her to do whatever you want." Because Mark never had a serious conversation with OOP where he stated what he really wanted. Everyone around them realised they were not compatible, but OOP didn't realize that though Mark "tickled all the boxes" he isn't in love with her, he simply goes with the flow. Which is worrying if he ever starts a relationship with Jen.
Self esteem issues and fears of being alone. PEOPLE WILL DO A LOT to sustain a bad relationship cause in their minds it’s better than being single. Like ironically it’s very easy to apply a D&D saying to this, “no d&d is better than bad d&d.” Being single is better than being together and unhappy
> I asked why he even proposed, if apparently I give him anxiety and he doesn’t even want to move in with me Why are you trying to marry this man if you think everything he likes is stupid and wierd?!??!?!!??
I mean, he was the one to propose? The reason why she wanted to marry him she said pretty much in the first sentence: >[He's a] handsome, responsible, intelligent man with a kind heart and a great sense of humor
She never said that. There's a difference between thinking a hobby is stupid and not wanting a hardcore nerd wedding. I play DnD every week and I spend a lot of my time gaming while wearing a Gryffindor robe and drinking from a Witcher goblet, and even I think his ideas are too much. She can definitely be more respectful about his contributions, yes. At the same time, the comment section is weirdly focused on how she doesn't like him as a person. >"a handsome, responsible, intelligent man with a kind heart and a great sense of humor" is literally her first sentence. Not wanting a jester and medival swords at her wedding doesn't mean she doesn't like him as a person.
I agree. I read OP as pretty high-strung, but as far as I can tell, she was also straightforward about everything she wanted, her timeline, etc. and didn't act wishy-washy. Yet for some reason, everyone's ragging on her, as though she was the one muddying things or not being clear, despite that being what Mark is doing? And how everyone else is just...shitting on her. Damn. I feel bad for her, honestly.
She’s a woman on reddit who wants a nice wedding. She's wrong no matter what she does.
I’m with you on that. Comments are focusing so much on her not seeing their incompatibility and no one putting any blame on him. These aren’t disagreements about color schemes or whether to get a band or a dj. Dude wanted a full on renn fair wedding. Considering everyone in her family’s reactions, I’m guessing she has had to make due with “good enough” for anything she wants while in her sister’s shadow her whole life. A relationship where they kind of like each other was the culmination of that. Everyone here needs therapy, but OP needs to get the hell away from her family first because I’m 90% sure her sister is taking her wedding date.
Yeah, those are the kind of things you do if both people are very into those things, and not just one.
Yep, I commented on the original. Her family and sis were straight up bullying her, and her ex was always going to choose her sister. Sister successfully weaponised body-shaming against OP. She knew she could derail OP's reasonable boundaries by making an issue using something else. Manipulation 101. Not many people spotted that if it apparently "shouldn't matter" to OP that her sis wears this particular dress...WHY should it matter to sis and ex-fiancé so much?? Hmm... And if you're one of the wedding party, it's not your day! Sis was unsupportive, like damn, wear an ugly dress if you actually love your sis. Instead she sicced everyone onto OP because she's the family and ex-fiancés favourite. Ex-fiance was actually a coward, OP was just a stand-in for her sister all along. Sis was a snake, badmouthing OP to the group of friends. I felt so bad for OP, I hope she goes NC with all of these horrible people.
What’s up with fiancé here trying to two the Op what the bridesmaids should wear? And blaming the Op for fiancé never communicating the issues? That’s fucked up. He’s an adult, and if he felt steamrolled or not supported he should have spoken up, not trashed her to his friends. The OPs family is trash, and I’m going to bet sister full be dating ex fiancé soon. You know her family will expect her to smile and be happy about it, which is all kinds of fucked up.
This. OOP’s family sucks. And Mark does too. He wants the sister, but used her as a stand in. I cannot believe the Mom blames OOP for believing that Mark liked, then loved her. They should all be mad at Mark for doing this when he knew he was into her sister. He even proposed rather than break up! He is a coward and if it were my two girls, I’d want him far away from both. Mark is not okay and needs serious therapy to help him know who he is and what he wants. I feel bad for OOP—she didn’t stand a chance with that liar and he selfishly messed with her and her life.
"He wants the sister, but used her as a stand in." THIS is what stuck out the most to me! It was obvious from her first post that he probably should have been with her sister. Everyone is giving her shit for not sharing hobbies or interests, but if he didn't make it seem like it mattered to him, why would she think she's falling short in that area? Frankly, while I'm more nerdy as well, I am fully on OPs side here. He flirted with her and started a relationship with her only because he didn't think he could pull the girl he really wanted. (Also, saying "I didn't go for her because someone that attracive wouldn't want me" to his fucking fiance?! EW.) He led her on for years, making her think everything was fine. He proposed and let her plan a wedding. He was prepared to marry her, let her throw away her life for him, just so he could remain in her sister's orbit. I'm not saying OP is wholly in the right (she could have found nicer ways to say she didn't like his ideas for the wedding, or could have incorporated some), but I really think that everyone hating on her are missing the point. HE let this go on as long as he did because he couldn't work up the nerve to ask out the one he really wanted to, and now has changed the whole trajectory of her life plan because he couldn't stand up after years and say "this isn't working." I'm honestly super upset for her. It's okay to want to be married and have kids by 30, it starts to get harder and more dangerous every year a woman gets older. It's not impossible, but it makes 30 a perfectly reasonable goal. And she's getting shat all over because *she* knows what she wants and worked towards that goal, when he has been wishy washy and not able to stand up for what he wants for years, and he is the victim here. Give me a break. I hope OP cuts ties with her whole family for making her the bad guy in this.
plus he didn't even break up with her in the end, he just went "Oh I guess we're breaking up then". Take some responsibility, damn
YES, he is so completely passive in everything in his life, from accepting he can't have the girl he wants so he won't even try, to dating a girl he doesn't really want to, to not even having the guts to break up with her. He just lets life happen to him, and she didn't do anything wrong, she just got caught in the whirlpool of his passivity and sucked in too deep.
If I was dating, and engaged to a man and my sister had thrown herself at him, and he asked for her to be best man and she agreed? I'd have dumped them both. Op was wildly tolerant of a very inappropriate relationship that neither party seemed to consider how it made her look/feel. I think the problem is OP is so used to being told she's the problem she writes herself as the problem but when you think long enough about the story, she really isn't.
Don't forget the bit after the dress fiasco where ex kept "jokingly" ogling sis's boobs and the two of them bullied her relentlessly over it. I assumed at that point that they're going to end up together. I'm such a nerd and a big D&D wedding is the only kind of wedding I've ever heard of that actually sounds like fun and not torture, lol, but I am not OOP and I felt really bad for her. At least John or whatever his name is was honest with her since her ex couldn't bring himself to be.
I really felt like John only did it to be an asshole honestly. The way she described the conversation just seems strange. Like he's rubbing in her face how bad of a match she was for Mark. He's a 42 year old man. What the fuck is he doing lol
yeah that was weird, like he was laughing at her the whole time.
He may have been and I'm sure he's just as bad as everyone else in that little group but at least he told her since the guy she was engaged to was too busy being in love with her sister to be bothered to do so. I'm just saying I'm glad she's out of that group of people, they sound awful
They're all adults but honestly reading that shit gave me an emotional flashback to high school. It's identical to the cruel shit teenage girls do to someone who they ostracize from a clique.
OOP is clearly not the family favorite. She should move away and find her own happiness.
Absolutely this. I’m glad other people picked up on it as well. All OOP wanted was a *nice* and traditional wedding. There’s literally nothing wrong with that. I’m a nerd too and I think the ex-fiancé’s ideas were way over the top. The sister was all too happy to gang up on OOP with the ex and hammer that wedge. She absolutely manipulated and weaponized the situation. As long as the bride isn’t asking you to change your very self (hair color, color contacts, weight, etc) then yeah, you can suffer through a few hours in an ugly outfit if you care about that person. But the sister had to make it all about her because Mark is the guy SHE wanted, sister be damned.
Yep, it's clear to me from the description the dress wasn't something you should wear to a traditional wedding *at all*, let alone as a member of the bridal party. To then constantly make jokes at OOPs expense that she was upset clearly points to the sister (and ex) being the AH.
It was Jenn's wedding dress. Standing up next to the groom in her Ren Faire wedding dress, while he's dressed to match. OP was never part of what they wanted at the wedding.
Comments are too focused on putting OP down, pretty much like her parents and sister and now Mark and his circle of friends do.
kind of figures, reddits demographics skew heavily towards nerd. as soon as i read that his wedding ideas were all gaming/dnd themed i knew the majority would be on his side. they sound fun to me too but theyre absolutely not 'traditional' ideas and anyone who isnt into that stuff would definitely have an issue with it.
I mean even if you *are* into it, it doesn’t mean it has to be reflected in every aspect of your life. I’m into camping and love my dogs, but that doesn’t mean I want my wedding to be on the side of a mountain and my dog to be a flower girl. Would that be adorable for pictures? Yes, absolutely. She would be so stinking cute in a little dress and holding a little basket in her mouth. Sorry, I’m getting off track. The point is, just because you enjoy something doesn’t mean it has to be your entire personality OR the theme of your wedding!
It’s also, from OOP’s perspective, not Mark’s whole personality. He shows her a different side, probably to hide himself from her. So all those renfairesque details look to her like other people showing off at her wedding. Which they wanted to.
Right. His D & D friends wanted him to have a D & D wedding. He may have wanted that too, but that’s not a side of himself that they shared. So all of a sudden, he’s throwing out Renfaire dreams and she has no idea where they’re coming from.
Nailed it. It's sad actually because OOP seems like a tragic character who was cemented into that role by her own family.
and she never said anything bad about his hobbies. she doesn’t want a girl dressed as an elf at her wedding, she doesn’t seem to mind either the girl dressing as an elf in general, or him playing dnd and video games. i’m a nerd and the only idea of his i liked was the classical versions of video game soundtracks
I started skimming past when it started with wanting daggers and amulets, this dude didn't want a themed wedding he just wanted to play pretend. Just like he was doing with their relationship.
There was another post like this a few years back. The groom posted about wanting a full-on Star Wars convention for a wedding. Cantina reception, the works. He described his fiancée as liking cute things, or something equally dismissive. And no one could understand that the bride wanted a wedding for them while he wanted a Star Wars con for his family and friends. There were never updates, but people acted like he was being wronged by a froo-froo 'zilla. From the way this reads, Jennifer, Mark, and his friends planned the wedding (Ren Faire, DnD, convention, take your pick) that they wanted, right down to Jennifer having a dress already picked out and made for being in the wedding party before was even knew what side she would be on. How was that not sus AF to everyone and the commenters? How is everyone ignoring that Jennifer approached Mark on her 18th birthday and offered herself to him? That they've had characters date in game, etc. Everyone is slamming OP saying that she wants Mark's money or she's trying to tick boxes, but the dude has literally said that he's only not with Jennifer because he thinks she's too attractive for him. OP was absolutely the stand-in and as heartbreaking is it will be for her, it's good that she got out. Now I hope she gets away from her family that co-signed her sister's shenanigans.
He suffers from the same thing. Making jokes about her at work but still moving forward to getting married.
The only good thing about this post is that all these people are nowhere near me.
So YOU think. They could be anywhere!
Yes! I know I was supposed to hate OOP, but by the time I got to the end I hated everyone and also felt sorry for her. She’s giving Cathy energy, but it sort of feels like everyone is failing at being adults as well. Specifically, what’s up with this grown-ass man with a grown-ass education panic-proposing and just expecting things to get better without couple’s counseling? Frankly, John’s the real MVP. He may be laughing at her like a jackass, but he’s shooting from the hip finally and communicating the fucking farce to this woman. I hope OOP grows up and finds purpose, Jennifer finds a nerdy dude who communicates better, and Mark goes to a therapist that helps him deal with whatever happened in his childhood that made him unable to set healthy boundaries with consequences.
Personally I have a strong dislike for the whole, "constantly joking about an issue you're too chicken-shit to discuss seriously" schtick so I started disliking Mark when he dealt with OOP's shittiness re: the dress by turning it into a running joke with Jennifer. OOP sounds like she was being an asshole but Mark pisses me off way more because he's an asshole in a way that like, claims false moral high ground? Like oh, I couldn't possibly do "mean" like break up with you or stand up for myself, I'll just turn you into the laughingstock of my friend group. Fuck off.
He was too chicken to have a conversation with the woman he asked to marry but, hey, let's humiliate her and exacerbate her discomfort! That will work out!
Without seeing the dress I have a hard time saying the OOP was being shitty.
I got the impression it was either some kind of extra buxom Renaissance Fair style outfit or a formal version of a costume someone would have at a Comic Con. OP focused on the revealing aspects of it, but I imagine that the actual style of the dress was probably not particularly neutral or subtle. Like being upset about someone's body is one thing - it's not like the sister can just leave her boobs at home that day. Being upset that someone with a large bust shows visual evidence of the fact that they have boobs is dumb. But an unconventional style in eye grabbing colors is definitely something that could be disruptive. While of course being a Bridezilla and insisting you should be the utter center of everyone's attention isn't cool, I can see why a prospective bride might be a little miffed to be spending thousands of dollars on a wedding dress only to have a member of the wedding party divert all the attention due to their deliberately eye catching outfit. Like yeah, everyone will see the beautiful bride but if one of the groomsmen dresses like fuckin Robin of Locksley then they're going to get all the attention, you know?
The way the fiance and sister acted after she asked the sister to wear a tuxedo was just....how old are you people? These are supposed to be adults?
From the sounds of it, Jennifer and Mark will be hooking up soon, and their shaming/jokes about OOP will be the thing that initially binds them together. Until they disagree on what theme they want for the wedding. And it would do some good for OOP to get some distance away from her family, who clearly have Jennifer as the favored child.
Also the kids thing? Like it sounded like OOP knew what she wanted there and it's completely fair to have a timeline for it especially relating to kids. Lots of people I know want to have them while they're young enough and also well established enough. It sounded like she'd communicated that to him and he was going along with it despite not agreeing. That's not something you can just go along with. She still sounds awful and like she bulldozes him but if they'd broken up at the kids convo or he broke up with her rather than proposing they'd've both been better off.
Yeah; while she might have been a bit oblivious to his clear emotional constipation, it's not unreasonable to assume that if you are *extremely* clear on what you want in your life vis a vis marriage and children, and the dude stays with you and proposes; that he's at least somewhere on the same page.
Exactly. I can't exactly blame her for thinking he wanted to marry her when he *proposed*. She's clearly talked about her timeline enough that he knows what she wants and literally everyone I know who does that would see the proposal as agreement. Admittedly they also had proper conversations where both were engaged on the topic so they already knew the other person wanted for example 2 kids and to be married at around the 5 year mark of the relationship as one of them felt that was the longest they could do without commitment and if someone couldn't commit after that then it was time to move on. They ended up engaged at the 2 year mark and married after 4 years.
Seriously, every single person in this situation is trash. Like, this goes beyond two people who aren't compatible, every other person involved is also shitty.
That was my thought on reading it, every single person in this story is an asshole. I reckon the sister is either going to sleep with the ex or drive him away trying to sleep with him.
Even the friend who called the wife seems like a tool
I'm genuinely exhausted just by reading this. There's literally not a single adult in this situation including the mum.
>I don't know if I messed this up or if everyone else were the assholes here. Let's be honest, everyone single person in this situation is asshole either due being an incompatible exhausting mess \~or\~ being enabler / yes-person who didn't bother to say anything critical for entire duration of the relationship until it escalated to point of no compromises and relationship-killer. At least only good thing coming out of this, is at least it ended at wedding planning phase and not after marriage nor any kids / pregnancy involvement....
Yes, esh. Even though op is exhausting, I feel bad for her. Everyone is rooting against her but no one really told her until now. If she'd known about her sister's feelings, maybe things would have been different. I read other comments saying op wants to win something over her sister by getting with the now ex but it seemed to me that he flirted with her and was the one initiating the relationship.
Right? If Jennifer felt strongly enough about Mark to tell her she’s old enough to fuck on her 18th birthday, they had two whole years to do something before OOP and Mark even began talking, much less a first date and becoming serious. There were numerous off ramps for Mark to pursue Jennifer, Jennifer to inform OOP she actually likes the guy, and Mom to step in to encourage/discourage as she would have liked.
Exactly. OOP was really full steam ahead on her plan to marry before 30 and to have a wedding that only she wanted but at least she was up front with what she wanted. Everyone else just let it happen and didn't advocate for themselves. Even at the end, Mark was so passive and waited for OOP to do the breaking up.
And even after she gave the ring back he was just like “oh okay, guess we’re broken up now.” Dude is the human equivalent of Eeyore.
That line really is something after everything. If I was on the receiving end of it, I'd have no regrets leaving that relationship.
He totally flirted with her because OOP was just an older Jen, just without being a gamer and into dnd
And as it turns out, being a gamer and into dnd were two very important qualities
Literally every person lol. Even the mom is an asshole, putting all the blame on OP when Mark is the one that flirted with her and basically just kept rolling with it through obvious incompatability.
All of these people are the worst
I love it when a story brings a bunch of Reddit strangers into total agreement.
Seriously, OP sounds kind of self absorbed and completely unaware that other people aren't bit players in a show starring her, but getting with the sister of the girl you're *really* into just because she seems to be the only one interested in you is... Not really it. They were both kind of using each other, tbh.
So like yes, to me, all of his ideas for the wedding were cringe and stupid. But he needs someone that will match his freak. I’m friends with a bunch of dnd nerds, I don’t think, or god, I hope they wouldn’t, want any of this shit at their weddings, but if I was a bridesmaid and I had to wear elf ears I would because I’m a great friend. But I *wouldn’t marry someone who wanted that shit*, because clearly we’re different people. OP was exhausting, mark is clearly a big nerd who maybe needs to grow up, but at the same time, he just needs someone to match his freak.
I will say that the music idea sounded like something that really could have worked. He didn't even want the original game music, he wanted classical versions played. That's a great compromise. There are some wonderful compositions out there. It sounds like by that time she was just shutting any of his ideas down.
All of these people sound awful. OOP for sure but I also kind of feel bad for her. Mark was an idiot to propose when he wasn’t into her really, I think he just wanted to be close to Jennifer. Jennifer and Mom sound like a pair, I bet you anything Jennifer and Mark will get together soon and OOP will be told to deal with it, but OOP will still be ridiculous. Everyone here sounds unpleasant.
also did no one notice the line where Mark tells OP he thought Jennifer was “too attractive to want him” which is him basically flat out telling his fiancé that he finds her sister more attractive than her, cause I guess OP wasn’t too attractive to want him. don’t get me wrong, everyone sucks here, but what a shitty thing to say lol
I'm guessing Jennifer is the golden child. I cannot for the life of me imagine telling one daughter that her fiance was meant for her sister. That's disgusting.
If Mark said she’s “too attractive” for him so he settled for OOP and OOP admits she’s a bombshell, I bet mom likes the prettiest daughter.
Everyone sucks some, but OOP sucks the least. I think OOP’s sister is going to find out very quickly just how badly her sister sucks. Sister is going to be banging her ex in less than a week. And sister is going to be bring her ex to all the family functions, and everyone will be gushing about how perfect they are right in front of OP. And OP will be expected to sit there and take it. To me, the reason I think OP sucks is that you don’t get to the point of almost marrying a guy THIS deep in geek culture without being aware that he’s THIS deep into geek culture. Did she look at the giant canvas of middle earth in his living room or whatever and think “Hmmm Mordor… I wonder what part of Europe that’s in…” - If you’re with a nerd you’re aware you’re with a nerd. This post reads like he suggested these wedding things one at a time. His suggestion is a 100% nerd themed wedding. She wants a 0% nerd wedding. The same thing happened in the house move in. Why is she shocked Pikachu face when she learns that they aren’t compatible?
If Jennifer is as attractive as OP says, maybe she will keep Mark on the line forever and not reel him in. Also, as attractive as OP claims he is, he's acting like a putz so why would a 10 want him any more than what he's gives?
These people each clearly do not have room for the other one in their lives. Time to move on. OP has a stick up her ass but having said that, I don't think I would want a nerd core wedding with basement mead either.
I’m a huge geek and a cosplayer but even I think it’s perfectly to fine not to make that my whole personality, never mind my whole wedding. The ex and his friends group are too emotionally immature and OOP is too rigid, but everyone around them suck, too.
Same (tho I only started to cosplay recently), and while some of the groom’s ideas were cool, what he wanted was a bit too much. And you have to think about the guests too, because while your nerdy friends might be ok with that, what about the families??? Will they be dressed formally and uncomfortable because they don’t fit? Imagine for a second that is Jen’s and the groom’s wedding, then what about people like OOP that doesn’t get the references and are stuck in a party that is clearly not for them because they wanted to support the couple? That’s the kind of thing you do for a birthday with your friends, not in a wedding. Or at least, not to the extent that the groom wanted. I get a few decorations here and there, and maybe letting the friend dress as an elf, but that’s it
I also cosplay and play DnD fairly regularly and even I wouldn't want some nerd esque themed wedding. Not everyone is gonna be as into it as I would be, costumes are *hella* expensive, and it would be absolutely exhausting to be in character for an entire day.
I was thinking "that sounds awesome," but when you put it like that...yeah, I don't think I want to risk all my guests drinking mold, either.
That whole section of OOP talking to John, and lots of lines saying "tore into John," and "John laughed it off," I was still seeing both sides through that section. Some people love tradition and formalities, and others just want a hobbit party in Vegas. Neither is wrong, but they are certainly incompatible. But John wasn't there for both sides. He just wanted Mark to have the D&D wedding with basement mead. At least he revealed that the couple was not compatible, which is the high point of all this. But it really is ESH.
I’ve been to weddings all across the board. One was a Halloween themed followed by the bride and groom playing Metal at a bar (formal band). Officiant was a certain horror villian, “Bob Ross” was the best man. It was certainly unique and overall quite nice because they did exactly what they wanted. Also been to some formal ones that were great and some that were awful. Myself, we did Friday the 13th in a park followed by hot pot and this trippy interactive exhibit. It was perfect. Go for whatever works for ya.
Could be worse…could be custom-made puppets.
For those unfamiliar with the puppet wedding, enjoy! [https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/w4z647/comment/ih50d8l/](https://www.reddit.com/r/AmItheAsshole/comments/w4z647/comment/ih50d8l/)
The. *WHAT*.
That whole thing was fucking bonkers. Like full blown fever dream insanity.
That's completely crazy and weird, but at least it's something they both want... Makes the whole thing seem borderline wholesome compared to the mess of the OOP"s situation here.
Yeah, no one can argue those two aren’t made for each other. (Out of felt, possibly.)
Don't worry! The meal will all be finger food!
That post was insane.
I’m actually down with basement mead, but that’s such a SPECIFIC vibe that you need both people marrying to be so explicitly into it for it to work, like oop needed to also be a ren faire dnd rp nerd for it to even work
Right?? I went to my ex’s cousin’s wedding several years ago. The bride and groom were BOTH this exact type of nerd. It was the week of Halloween; guests were asked to wear costumes. The bride wore custom chainmail and the officiant was the couple’s dungeon master. It was the nerdiest thing I have ever seen and it was kind of amazing. I don’t share any of those particular interests, but the whole thing was so THEM that it felt extremely charming and sweet. I’m trying to imagine attending a wedding like that where only one half of the couple likes that kind of stuff—the idea is just so bizarre I can’t even process it!
The elf ears…augh.
This urked me so much. Like I'm the biggest Doctor Who fanatic I know, but I wouldn't ask for a bloody Dalek at my ceremony
Yeah, she's not unreasonable for not wanting to serve some guy's basement hooch at her wedding.
She's not unreasonable for any of her wants besides the dress/tuxedo thing. They were just incompatable and neither one of them was mature enough to break it off I feel so, so bad for OOP though. its obvious that her sister is the golden child, and while OOP is immature and stubborn the rest of the people are manipulative and verbally/emotionally abusive Her ex and the rest of her family deserve each other, but I hope OOP cuts them all off and builds a good life for herself where she's surrounded by love and support
Yeah, her family sounds absolutely horrible. Especially her mom blaming her for dating a guy who *asked her out instead of her sister*.
Tbh, even her feelings about the dress/tuxedo thing are pretty reasonable once you start putting *all* of the details together.
Yes, I feel like people that are in the wedding party should know to not up stage the bride and dress accordingly.
Let alone her own *sister*, whom apparently everyone thinks should actually be marrying the guy.
I am betting they wanted her to be conveniently in a bridal-ish dress so when OOP inevitably drops out of the wedding they can swap Jen in for the bride.
Yeah, just utterly incompatible. I was super envious when I heard a coworker’s son was going to watch a LotR marathon and dress up and drink mead with his buddies but I’d draw the line at having a themed wedding. I mean if both parties are on board, good for them, but I empathise with OOP for just wanting a normal wedding to look back on. Also can’t force someone to enjoy gaming, like her sister bought her a switch. There’s much more to life than just that. Seems like Mark really wanted a Jennifer all along and duped OOP and himself. OOP’s requests would not seem demanding or difficult if she were with the right partner and surrounded by the right people tbh. And am I the only one to think it a tad unprofessional that Mark and Jenn’s boss is getting involved. A few too many opinions on their relationship floating around. Ultimately he made a good call, I guess.
This reads like nerd bait. With that being said, I'd definitely dress up like a dryad if I ever planned on getting married, so it's clear which side of this hobby and aesthetic divide I'm on, but I still dislike the sister and ex-fiance characters way more than the main character.
I think I hate the mom character too.
Mom is the worst
Oh, I forgot her! Double birds up & waved in a circle to her for sure.
Oh 100%: - the groom and the sister have Reddit-approved hobbies / wedding-aesthetic✔️ - the bride is jealous and controlling ✔️ - the bride doesn’t care about the groom’s wishes ✔️ - the bride doesn’t even appear to like the groom and only wants to be married to fit her preconceived perfect timeline ✔️ And for all this I’m supposed to ship a man having an emotional affair with his bride’s sister? Fuck that noise.
Don’t forget the wannabe elf.
Don't forget the sister with nerdy interests is so much more attractive than the protagonist, and while the nerdy ex-fiancee doesn't think she's into him, she actually really loves him so much that she's not even waiting five minutes after the protagonist's engagement ends to imply she wants him.
Yeah my husband hangs around ALOT of nerds and none of them had ren fairs weddings even though many do like ren faires. I enjoy them myself.
Nerd bait would make sense because OOP seems to have a *very* detailed description of Mark's ideas for someone who's so dismissive of them all.
She also seems to know exactly what Mark texted Jennifer
This is so true. She barely talked about her own ideas or wants. They were all “generic”. She wanted off the rack dresses and it’s said like three times that she turned down custom-made gowns that one of his friends would kindly pay for all because she was jealous.
The dude is “28, handsome, a phd, and has his own house”, but is also an omega-nerd who is drop-dead gorgeous but doesn’t know it, has the time to regularly game with friends, all while being in a years-long relationship with one of the most demanding people on the planet. He’s either imaginary or he’s kryptonian.
It's the secret clone of Henry Cavill, raised to supplant him when the signal is given.
100%. Also, why did the first post mention that they both work for “John” even though he had absolutely nothing to do with the post, only for him to *coincidentally* play a pivotal role in the update? Do people just like shouting out their employers in case they become relevant in they future?
Omg that's exactly what I thought when I read the first line of the update
I was disappointed to need to scroll so far to see someone mentioning this. It has nearly every wedding trope special designed for Reddit.
I would say the writter identify himself with John, the guy who say what everyone should have said before
wowwwww the gaming nerd younger sister is hot, tall, with big ol naturals. this is a post written with one hand 🙄🙄
>wowwwww the gaming nerd younger sister is hot, tall, with big ol naturals. this is a post written with one hand 🙄🙄 LOL finally someone says this
at one point she is underage....
lol from an account that is now suspended so...yeah.
Mark sucks the worst here. He had no business proposing when he himself wasn’t sure if the relationship was working. You don’t get married and “hope” for things to get better. You marry someone as they are. And you ESPECIALLY don’t propose if you have a crush on her sister. Jesus Christ. Who does that?!? And shit talking your fiancée to your friends is beyond a bad idea. Her family sucks too. All of these people need to get far, far away from each other.
>And shit talking your fiancée to your friends is beyond a bad idea. Especially when one of your friends is said fiancé's sister (that you also have a crush on). It's just so mean.
This, so much. Also, how likely was a Yes Person like Mark to actually state 'I want XYZ wedding thing because it matters to me /however I appreciate your own preferences so let's discuss and compromise'. He's likely been just giving her weak bids for wedding options, like 'John says he could make some mead', or 'Kate wants to be an elf'. she says something like 'eww I'm not keen on homemade alcohol and wtf Kate it's a wedding?' and he goes back and says 'yeah she shot me down again, she is always shooting me down'.
This! People are so hard on OOP, but she really had no idea how he was feeling about anything because he didn’t tell her. Her family are horrible and she deserved better than this relationship.
Yeah, I actually have the least sympathy for Mark here. It sounds like he never liked OOP at any point...but he's the one who asked her out. He's the one who flirted with her. He's the one who proposed. All while being really into her sister, who actually had made overtures at him before. Like why even waste her time? The girl he liked tried to get him to date her before. Just...date her instead.
Yup. Most comments are saying “both people are the worst” but really Mark is the one who is the asshole here. Nobody was forcing him to date or propose to a woman he didn’t even really like. OF COURSE she would want to decorate her house and have children and make a life for her and her husband. Those are not unreasonable expectations, and Mark just agreed and secretly resented her, then later accused her of being controlling and making him feel suffocated. Sir, if you didn’t like her, her taste, her life dreams, and you were in love with her sister, then WHY THE HELL DID YOU PROPOSE? She’s the one who broke it off, too. I think he would have literally gone through the wedding, never saying anything and secretly hating her. OP needs to get away from these people.
OOP needs to take a break from this whole family. It doesn't seem that she has anyone on her side, and worse, she appears to have been the butt of many jokes where neither her ex or her sister defended her. These two are definitely going to get engaged and her family will expect her to be at their wedding to show her support for the "real" couple.
This for sure. She was a running gag for years with her husband, his friends, his work collegues, her sister, her mother and not one person suggested he perhaps have a conversation with her or stop mocking his gf or break up with her if he doesn't even like her. Like, what a betrayal. All OP has done is try to plan a wedding she's taking seriously and wants to be the bride in. Meanwhile everyone else wants to throw a comicon staring Jen but not mention it it the bride, just act like she's crazy and mean for not wanting that.
I hope she finds a nice conventional man who genuinely likes and enjoys her and shares her goals. I wish them a Live Love Laugh-filled life.
Seriously! She’s not sympathetic but when you take a step back her ostensible boyfriend and sister have been mocking her for years.
Couples have disagreements about weddings all the time and come to compromises. If the disagreement devolves into a fiance's sister and future husband regularly mocking her together to her face... like, why the fuck are you still getting married? All these people suck.
And maybe to a certain extent she could always sense that everyone was mocking and rooting against her and that made her overreact
And probably could sense that her partner didn’t quite love her either… since all his ideas for supposed their day of commitment didn’t involve her at all.
I felt the same way. I felt kind of sorry for her but everyone talks about how bad she is, not that Jennifer and Mark were talking shit about her. And mom needs to realize that Mark didn't ask Jennifer out, he asked out OOP. It's not her fault that Jennifer didn't get the guy.
That mom, no wonder OOP's so jealous of her sister, her mom is constantly telling her she's not good enough and that she stole him from her sister. With a mom like that it's a miracle she doesn't feel worse towards her sister.
Yeah, the mom seems almost cartoonish in how off base she is.
Ugh, I can see this happening. This time next year, she's wearing a guest dress (because, let's be honest, her family doesn't like her) and being told to smile for the pictures. Is she a prick? Yes, but damn, is Mark not a grown ass man able to speak up? He just went along with everything! Instead of communicating that the relationship wasn't working, he went straight to insulting her!
That bugged me as well. Like, he’s not a victim - he is a grown man with a phd and house. She sounds like from the beginning she was clear what she wanted in a relationship. When he realized they weren’t on the same page, he should have spoke to her instead of running to his friends and her sister. OP sounds exhausting to me but I don’t think it’s fair how her family and friends are treating her as well.
well that certainly was a single thread that unraveled the whole damn sweater when pulled on, huh
If this is real, I hope sister and ex never get together or ruin their friendship when they do try. Because they certainly do not deserve to have their relationship work out after how they've treated OOP. She's no saint, but everyone going on about how sister and ex should be together? What a bunch of assholes...
Oh, I hope they do, so that they can implode and be as miserable as they made the OOP.
Every single person in this story sucks. A lot. I think OOP should extract herself from all these people and go find folks she meshes with. She seems exhausting but not horrible.
Honestly OOP is the one I have the most hope for. She's currently surrounded by people with no respect for her while everyone else has social backup. I'd say it's amazing how much pleasant people can get when their peers don't obviously resent them for not being someone else.
I agree. She doesn't care for Mark's interests, but that doesn't automatically mean she doesn't care for Mark himself. I think he sucks much more than her because he should have let her go rather than proposing. OOP is a little tiresome, but I don't read any ill intent in her - I can't say the same for the rest of these people.
Tbh I find it hard to hate on Oop too much. She definitely did not respect her partner’s hobbies but that is something very possible to improve on. Especially if she finds people more on her page, which does not seem to be anyone in her own family unfortunately.
I'm still on Team OOP here, even though I'm a card carrying geek who will probably have a geeky themed wedding if/when I do get married. Does her ex-fiance even like her? Does her sister like her? Does her mother? You can shit on her for not being super involved about her husband's hobbies, but that is not a personality flaw. The bigger problem here is that everyone else seems to "know" that Jennifer and ex "are perfect for each other" but ex refused to actually break up with her. And I find it hilarious that the people who get mad at folks who date their sibling's exes are defending Jennifer now. She's an even bigger asshole for trashtalking her sister to her friends AND her mother.
Agreed. Do I think she handled the wedding planning terribly, and needed to be reminded that being inclusive of both the bride and groom's personalities was more important than a perfect magazine aesthetic? Yes. Do I think everyone else sucks for...pretty much everything else about her relationship with her ex/fiancé? Yes. Girl knows that she wants a husband and kids. There's nothing wrong with that. Or the hope that she'll be married by thirty. Because sure people can find love later, but you know what happens when everyone tells you "be patient, you have plenty of time" for years? Nothing. You only find love if you're out there looking. And women do have a deadline on that stuff. So this whole "I had to propose because you've been clear you had a timeline"...Dumbass, that was your cue to realise that if you didn't want the same things as her, you should get the fuck out of her way and let her find a person who does share her feelings. Also settling for someone that's interested but you don't have reciprocal feelings for, purely because you have an inferiority complex and you don't want to ask out the person you're truly interested in? Is a truly unethical thing. And as for the dress Jennifer wanted to wear...I initially thought that OP was being OTT, but given the later revelations of everyone else's thoughts about the whole relationship, there's a part of me that wonders if it might actually have been designed for her to outshine the bride, and the sister/friends were all using it deliberately to try and derail the wedding.
This! When I read the description I was like?? So a super over the top dress that perfectly accentuates her body and makes her stand out in a wedding that’s not hers? I’ve been to a few weddings and I’m jennifer’s age, but the first thing I look for is something that’s pretty but also a bit boring so I don’t stand out in any way, as the wedding should be about the bride. That was 100% intentional. Who gets a tailored dress like that for a wedding when you’re not the bride?
Jennifer also had the dress picked out, either already designed and made or mocked up and ready to make before she was even asked to be in either wedding party. OP mentions how much everyone already likes it and how they all love the seamstress friend. I bet it looks like one of her character designs that dated Mark's character in their campaign.
💯 to everything you've said
My husband and I aren’t super into each others hobbies. We support them, but he’s not outside working in my garden or helping me work on transforming old furniture and I’m not spending hours with his hobby. It’s totally ok for people to have separate hobbies and not make their lives all about said hobbies.
Yep, and I'm totally judging Mark and Jennifer and their entire circle since they seem to be the "GEEK IS OUR ONLY PERSONALITY" types. Like, does Mark watch movies with OOP? Go with her to her own hobbies and interests? Why is everything about what he's into???
OP and Mark shouldn't have been together, but fuck does her family completely suck.
The whole time I read this, I'm wondering why they're together to begin with. I know it's being written "post-problem" so negative bias but everything she said made it seem like they don't have a single thing in common. Everyone here is being stupid.
i wouldn’t be surprised if Mark and Jenn start dating now that oop and him are broken up.
I don't care how tiresome OOP is, at least the poor woman used her words. Her fiance and her own sister turned her into a running gag behind her back so yeah, she's a little obsessed with marriage for the sake of it but he and Jen are obsessed with turning her into a laughingstock. And I don't care how platonic they insist they are, if I had a sister who shook her maracas at my man to taunt me, I'd falcon punch those wobblers into space. There are limits of human decency involved and ignoring them because your partner won't drink your buddies' homemade viking urine is a little much.
Yeah they're platonic because he thinks she's too hot for him. Very calming thing to hear.
Everyone in this story sounds exhausting
all them suck, even the mother.
everyone in this story sounds tiring. but.. “Jennifer said that she tried really hard to have this work out because she just wants Mark to be happy” is such a crazy sentence to me. no mention of wanting her own sister to be happy. none of these people should be associated with each other anymore.
How do people with no matching interests go so far into a relationship? The guy has way too low of a self esteem and in an ideal world should have broken off long before it got to marriage.
Toxic low self esteem. He agreed to date someone he wasn't that interested in, because he couldn't imagine that the person he was interested in (her sister!!!) would like him back. He'd rather settle romantically than risk his all-important friendship changing. Even though the sister had actually indicated her interest. And he decided to propose not because he wanted to, but because he knew his girlfriend had life goals and he didn't want to admit that their goals didn't align.
> I (26F) am getting married to Mark(28m) > Jennifer is best friends with my husband Mark (26m) I stopped reading right there.
ESH for real. The sister is clearly in love with the fiancée. The mother is blaming OOP, yet nobody is holding Mark accountable. He chose to date the younger sister of his female friend. He's not innocent. Instead of communicating with his fiancée, he chose to confide in her sister. He was bringing a 3rd party into their relationship. No, they aren't compatible. Not even close. OOP is better off without him in her life. He's not emotionally mature enough for a long-term relationship, much less a marriage. He doesn't take accountability for his decisions. Nobody forced him to propose. Nobody forced him to ask her to move into his house. He can't communicate in a constructive manner. OOP has her faults as well. Yes, she became a bridezilla. Yes, she is more concerned with her little list of goals versus knowing and loving the man she was about to spend her life with. In time, OOP will be glad she gave the ring back.
I agree but maybe she wouldn't be as much as a beidezilla if they didn't give her so manu reasons to doubt herself. Like her ex seemed to ne in love with her sister. I get what she did was dumb and wrong but I understand not wanting her sexy and next to him on your wedding.
Lmao Mark basically admitted he was with Jennifer’s sister because she’s the lesser attractive one who he thought he had more of a chance with and the age gap was more reasonable. Everyone sucks here.
Idk why people think oop is a bad person. It's normal to have a plan of life and it's normal to have a standard for a wedding. I'm a weeb myself and these weebs can gtfo.
Most disappointed in Mark. It’s obvious he was using OP as replacement girlfriend cuz he’s not able to date Jenn.
I feel really bad for OOP and everyone here reading this all in one summarial go for what is basically a huge part of her life are all being so judgy and narrow minded. How sad for her
I actually feel sorry for OOP because it feels like everyone in her life was actively working against her. She definitely messed up and they were incompatible, but Jennifer, Mark, and OOP's mother are definitely assholes.
And Mark *knew* that they were incompatible, but never bothered to tell OOP that he didn't care for her plans. *She* was upfront about what she wanted, any reasonable person would assume that (in that situation) a lack of rejection is an agreement to those wants.
[удалено]
I don't think it's necessary for the hobbies to be similar but at least have a little respect for what your partner is into. There are ways to incorporate nerdiness into a wedding without it being overpowering, but both people need to be willing to compromise.