[https://www.ishares.com/us/products/333011/ishares-bitcoin-trust](https://www.ishares.com/us/products/333011/ishares-bitcoin-trust)
see Holdings: $1,060,712,715.95
Oh man, I just realized that blackrock is so big they could possibly make a deal with the mining pools/miners to buy ALL mined Bitcoin off market for say 10% above current market value. They would only buy them directly from the miners. This could shoot the price up though.
My favorite Bitcoin are the ones that fall from
The vine and are ingested by Civet cats. They digest the Bitcoin and poop them out. Then I clean off the poop and grind up the Bitcoin in my coffee grinder and brew a fantastic cup of Bitcoin coffee.
It's also in the miners interest to be able to sell big chunks without crashing the market, so there is generally no reason to pay above market price. Blackrock didn't get so big by being stupid.
You do realize that if they buy bitcoins for more than their benchmark they lose money, right?
The ETF issuer is neither long nor short. The investors are long.
If you don't think blackrock can break the rules used to teach those classes I have a bridge to sell you.
Yes it could start a bidding war for those coins BUT what if we never find out what they are selling for? What if Blackrock makes them sign an NDA? I'm not a lawyer so these are just some things I thought about quick. You do realize off exchanges trades don't affect price, right?
Yes liquidity would dry up but guess who would control that? Which would essentially control the price
Good thing 70% of all the bitcoin is not moving and not available for BlackRock to buy. A vast majority of control. We can see all this it’s all transparent.
If BlackRock wants my Bitcoin they can have it but it won’t be cheap.
Since supply is dwindling and demand is not the value will respond accordingly.
With the issuance of Bitcoin halving in a few months hold on.
Also, miners need to sell into the upcoming halving. Hash difficulty goes way up after and they need to buy more miners if they want to maintain their hashrate to get enough rewards to be profitable in their operation.
Please at least "know your enemy" if you hate fiat.
Example: you walk into a restaurant and buy a hamburger with BTC, cool. That restaurant still needs to pay sales tax in fiat.
The restaurant *could* auto-sell some of the BTC at the moment of transaction, but its a lot easier for them to give *you* that responsibility and collect the entire transaction in fiat.
If your basic assumption is that generally businesses should pay some tax to get things like police protection and the ability to go to court to settle business/contract disputes, then fiat will simply never go away. Its just too convenient for any reasonably functional government to have its own fiat.
If you don't have that assumption, then congratulations, you already have that situation on the black market where pesky things like taxes and civil disagreements in a court of law don't exist.
No, friend. We wait until it rises much more. While waiting, we come here to announce that we are *hodlers to the very end* or that we just added/acquired 0.00001 BTC ... \[and wen lambo?\].
Did you notice all the jerking-off that went on in anticipation of the ETFs? For what? Because fiat is being inflated to death? Because want financial freedom? Lol!
Look, buddy, you know the game, and I know it. :-)
Well that could also go the total other way. Miner make less, so mine less, at the same time fewer people do less transactions. Price starts to dip, hodler hold, the few trying to sell get scared off by higher and higher fees, miners see the price continues to drop and don’t trust it will be worth mining so there are ever fewer miners.
A currency needs to be traded, the btc mantra is hodl hodl hodl.
Gotta look at the supply and demand side. Mining should produce roughly the same amount by design (aside from reward halvings) regardless of the number of miners. More or less miners does not have an effect on the throughput of transactions and blocks still roll out every 10 minutes on average. More miners doesn’t mean faster blocks with difficulty adjustment handling the network every 2100 blocks. If the reward halving decreases the level of newly minted BTC we see less sold on exchanges to cover mining costs. Decrease in used supply with a similar/increased/slightly decreased demand leads to a rise in price which brings in more miners. Thats the way it’s worked for the past 3 reward halvings. No reason to think that’s not the game now or when the newly minted BTC per block decreases below transaction costs.
Eventually, mining will return to the hands of individuals, the way it began. An individual running commodity hardware has minimal costs, therefore, transaction fees stabilise making it economical to use Layer 1.
Yeah I thought about what this could mean... less transactions => higher fees/transaction. Less reward => higher fees... This could be great for things like Lightning.
This is exactly why In the end bitcoin is going to millions of $$ in value , or it goes to 0 or near zero like other ghost chains.
I don’t find the second proposition very likely
The appreciation in value relative to the fiat dollars being used around it is baked into the system.
Everything about bitcoin is a master class in game theory.
Nah, just more efficient equipment. Main revenue comes from energy. Refresh the fleet and get some more efficient miners. Can’t double fleet typically, space constraints are real.
There are multiple factors at play right now, including miner selling some of their bitcoin to cover operational expenses. Whales and institutions have been very active in attempts to liquidate day traders and scare inexperienced bitcoin hodlers into panic selling; both with the aim of buying bitcoin at lower prices.
Apparently, yes. Since 2020, roughly 330k coins are mined yearly. Before that is was 660k per year. 1.83m unsold coins is not a stretch. That's what "we are early" truly means. There is still plenty of coins available hence it will take another 10 years until we really blast off. Although with the etf it may happen a little faster.
Add 2.3m coins on exchanges and you find yourself with about 4m coins left.
If I have to guess this is some kind of "sum all coins still sitting in coinbase addresses and add other known pool addresses". I would not be surprised if even those infamous "Satoshi coins" would be summed there as well
I fully agree, I have tried to find any proof myself and cannot. From what I understand by the very nature of auto-adjustment miners need to sell almost all their coins. This is why I guess that someone just did dumb summation without any estimates about lost coins from the ancient times.
if you want to prove it yourself and trust nobody, just download Bitcoin blockchain and write a software that will analyze all coinbase (not the exchange) transactions that are unspent, it's not that difficult
They HOLDd til the new year and are unloading for expenses while trying not to crash the price. ETFs are trying to accumulate without skyrocketing the price. Crazy world we live in; those who want the price to go higher are selling and those who want the price to go lower are buying.
Nothings strange about that. What’s strange is typically if you sell it’s because you think the price is going lower and you buy because you think/want the price to go higher. Miners are highly invested in the idea Bitcoin is going higher. BlackRock would be fine if the price went to a penny as long as investors kept buying their ETF.
POW working as intended :) Guys this is literally why BTC, POS fairytale shipcoins big banks and big boys would controll all the chain creation by having the most coins, nothing to prove but your richess, in BTC you have to spend real energy to create BTC
Proof of stake (pos) more coins you own, morr controll you have altcoins are basically ou banking system its a joke, in Bitcoin it doesnt matter how much money you have, you have same controll as someone else - almost zero, who actually has controll are miners that have to spend real power to secure the network, wast amounts of power and noone can take over the network because you would have to spend money not on Bitcoin but on actual hardware to attack the network read up if you are interested
It's just a matter of time until more and more miners who have next to zero energy cost (waste energy/stabilizing grids/ heating water) compete with these giant companies.
The halving just makes it even more difficult for them to compete as the revenue gets cut in half.
Makes sense to sell the news. They've got electricity bills to pay and this is likely a local top. Gotta buy more equipment too. Once they run out of BTC to sell we start rising again.
Because there hasn't been an influx of buyers. The ETFs already owned the Bitcoin they needed which is why all the buying over the last year.
Wait 24 months and you'll see things change IMHO ... geopolitics will catch up and people will start using BTC like gold to hedge risk
Mining Hash rates been growing parabolically and hitting ATHs for months now … be no great surprise if the likes of Blackrock et Al are involved in mining cheap bitcoins ready for the ETFs Launch
Miners anticipate cash shortages that will likely happen after the halving. It will be a survival game and the ones getting dry first will have to surrender and stop the mining operation.
Yeah funny etf's , they couldnt beat bitcoin , now they own it blackrock grayscale was the 3rd largest player blackrock owns stocks in the 2 biggest mining facilities. And on the day of the spot bitcoin etf. Zero sales like nothing 0 , was bought on the spot market. 1500 mil from pocket to pocket , they mined btc at 12000 dollars selling it for 45000 , blackrock made the biggest profit in the whole cryptoindustry
Please provide proof of miners holding 1.8 million BTC. A link or a screenshot would be helpful. Otherwise this post should be labeled misleading.
u/rBitcoinmod
miners are really rich I’m wondering have they ever bought any bitcoins? I don’t really get why they are selling this much bitcoins at this time. It’s so weird.
I did this post 2 days ago, title:
Miners don't have a clue about bitcoin
Look my profile
With images of selling and inventory
Supply is almost inexistent right now, one soveirgn fund buying would raise prices to 50k easily
Keep DCA and hold this 42k line
Hodl the line
First off I don't have any Bitcoin I have a family of four girls a wife stuck in Montana desperate About to lose everything So if anybody really wants to help that'd be the key please anything
The halving is coming so for the miners to maintain its current revenue stream, they will need to double their output and that means more capital investments
That is why BTC prices usually go down prior to the halving
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Supply hasn’t been this dry since *checks notes* October 2021
Blackrock bought about 10k BTC right?
[https://www.ishares.com/us/products/333011/ishares-bitcoin-trust](https://www.ishares.com/us/products/333011/ishares-bitcoin-trust) see Holdings: $1,060,712,715.95
Oh man, I just realized that blackrock is so big they could possibly make a deal with the mining pools/miners to buy ALL mined Bitcoin off market for say 10% above current market value. They would only buy them directly from the miners. This could shoot the price up though.
Yeah, they get them wholesale. Fresh Bitcoin, straight off the vine.
From mine to table
The best tasting ones are the artisan crafted bitcoin computed and hashed by hand.
Fair trade Bitcoin?
And non-GMO / certified organic.
Cage-free BTC.
*USDA certified organic brcuz we know how competent and trustworthy the federal gov is …
Nah. It’s blood coins.
I actually told a jeweler I would prefer blood diamonds for my fiancé s ring they didn’t like that very much 😬
My favorite Bitcoin are the ones that fall from The vine and are ingested by Civet cats. They digest the Bitcoin and poop them out. Then I clean off the poop and grind up the Bitcoin in my coffee grinder and brew a fantastic cup of Bitcoin coffee.
You’re sh*tting me
I like my Bitcoin to be free range and locally sourced personally.
that hand is going to be tired!
it's about 1.5 days to hash a block by hand. Probably longer due to sore a hand
Mmm hashing by hand, each block taking days worth of work.
Pesticide free
Carbofuckingnara
The thread from here is why I do Reddit. Awesome! 🤣
Same 😂
It's also in the miners interest to be able to sell big chunks without crashing the market, so there is generally no reason to pay above market price. Blackrock didn't get so big by being stupid.
Yeap, Blackrock stupid and cryptohamsters are not
You do realize that if they buy bitcoins for more than their benchmark they lose money, right? The ETF issuer is neither long nor short. The investors are long.
Blackrock even has participations in mining companies. https://www.binance.com/en/feed/post/1064040
Blackrock has their nubby fingers in every single industry on earth
Is part of the agreement for the ETF not that they have to be purchased via Coinbase?
Coinbase is the custodian. They hold the BTC but it is not purchased there.
They can purchase through approved 3rd parties that are not direct affiliates.
This wouldn’t be considered an OTC transaction no?
Could?....lol someone failed econ 101
If you don't think blackrock can break the rules used to teach those classes I have a bridge to sell you. Yes it could start a bidding war for those coins BUT what if we never find out what they are selling for? What if Blackrock makes them sign an NDA? I'm not a lawyer so these are just some things I thought about quick. You do realize off exchanges trades don't affect price, right? Yes liquidity would dry up but guess who would control that? Which would essentially control the price
Good thing 70% of all the bitcoin is not moving and not available for BlackRock to buy. A vast majority of control. We can see all this it’s all transparent. If BlackRock wants my Bitcoin they can have it but it won’t be cheap. Since supply is dwindling and demand is not the value will respond accordingly. With the issuance of Bitcoin halving in a few months hold on.
Hey let’s not get ahead of ourselves here fellas. After all president Satashi will just print more Bitcoin so we can’t see any price increases. /s
Looks like they’ll be hitting the $5 billion AUM fee discount way before the 12 month period.
Also, miners need to sell into the upcoming halving. Hash difficulty goes way up after and they need to buy more miners if they want to maintain their hashrate to get enough rewards to be profitable in their operation.
Who are the miners? RIOT and MARA? Or individuals? Noob question.
We crave for mass Adoption and ability to pay with crypto. Yet BTC Miners sell for fiat to fund operations.
What else are they gonna sell for? Chickens?
Chickencoin just rocketed 20,000% after this comment
I like chickens
“Look at all those chickens”
But do you love them? That’s the real question.
I think they are ok. Is that good enough?
I like tuttles
Corn
Lemons
Yes, to pay bills in fiat.
Please at least "know your enemy" if you hate fiat. Example: you walk into a restaurant and buy a hamburger with BTC, cool. That restaurant still needs to pay sales tax in fiat. The restaurant *could* auto-sell some of the BTC at the moment of transaction, but its a lot easier for them to give *you* that responsibility and collect the entire transaction in fiat. If your basic assumption is that generally businesses should pay some tax to get things like police protection and the ability to go to court to settle business/contract disputes, then fiat will simply never go away. Its just too convenient for any reasonably functional government to have its own fiat. If you don't have that assumption, then congratulations, you already have that situation on the black market where pesky things like taxes and civil disagreements in a court of law don't exist.
so what are they gona sell to pay electricity? bread? coke? pretty obvious..
Yep until goods and services are sold in btc it is the way
You think people really want to use bitcoin? No, what we really crave is for bitcoin to go up in fiat so that we can sell and enjoy the riches.
If BTC rises this much that a $2-5k (or whatever a small investment is to you) feels Wealthy, we are all screwed. YKWIM.
No, friend. We wait until it rises much more. While waiting, we come here to announce that we are *hodlers to the very end* or that we just added/acquired 0.00001 BTC ... \[and wen lambo?\]. Did you notice all the jerking-off that went on in anticipation of the ETFs? For what? Because fiat is being inflated to death? Because want financial freedom? Lol! Look, buddy, you know the game, and I know it. :-)
Selling OTC to blackrock as well.
Find an electricity provider accepting bitcoin, if there are any, they get paid in it.
Some say, Some miner will expand so much, they will invest in a power plant and sell the excess electricity.
funds have to buy from someone
It’s because the halving is going to reduce their earnings from the mining by half. Most are selling to fund new equipment.
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You leave fees out of the equasion. The point of halving is to push miners towards reliance of fees as opposed to mining reward.
Fees require people moving their money around though. These days people seem to be holding their bitcoin more than spending it.
Yeah, but that’s a self correcting problem. Fewer miners means those who are mining make more. Thus attracting more miners and round and round we go.
Well that could also go the total other way. Miner make less, so mine less, at the same time fewer people do less transactions. Price starts to dip, hodler hold, the few trying to sell get scared off by higher and higher fees, miners see the price continues to drop and don’t trust it will be worth mining so there are ever fewer miners. A currency needs to be traded, the btc mantra is hodl hodl hodl.
Miners make less, miners mine less, difficulty adjustment drops difficulty, miners make more, miners mine more. Thats the whole dance as intended.
Yes but the dance can fail, not saying it will but still
Gotta look at the supply and demand side. Mining should produce roughly the same amount by design (aside from reward halvings) regardless of the number of miners. More or less miners does not have an effect on the throughput of transactions and blocks still roll out every 10 minutes on average. More miners doesn’t mean faster blocks with difficulty adjustment handling the network every 2100 blocks. If the reward halving decreases the level of newly minted BTC we see less sold on exchanges to cover mining costs. Decrease in used supply with a similar/increased/slightly decreased demand leads to a rise in price which brings in more miners. Thats the way it’s worked for the past 3 reward halvings. No reason to think that’s not the game now or when the newly minted BTC per block decreases below transaction costs.
Eventually, mining will return to the hands of individuals, the way it began. An individual running commodity hardware has minimal costs, therefore, transaction fees stabilise making it economical to use Layer 1.
That doesn't sound very secure.
Individuals using commodity hardware were the original bitcoin miners.
I don’t think you understand how mining works… and I’m not the one to explain it to you.
[deleted]
Yeah I thought about what this could mean... less transactions => higher fees/transaction. Less reward => higher fees... This could be great for things like Lightning.
Mempool is full.
This is exactly why In the end bitcoin is going to millions of $$ in value , or it goes to 0 or near zero like other ghost chains. I don’t find the second proposition very likely The appreciation in value relative to the fiat dollars being used around it is baked into the system. Everything about bitcoin is a master class in game theory.
If they collectively double the amount of equipment they wouldn't maintain their profits. Their profits would shrink.
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Their profit should stay the same because the price of BTC should be going up accordingly
Nah, just more efficient equipment. Main revenue comes from energy. Refresh the fleet and get some more efficient miners. Can’t double fleet typically, space constraints are real.
The effect is pure capitalism. No one forces them to be a miner. The cheapest energy is waste energy.
If only they could have seen it coming
Since the last halving, the price has 4x-ed. So they get double the rewards in comparison. What are you taling about?
Interesting. Does this explain the dipping we are seeing these days?
Miners always sell before a bitcoin halving event. History speaks for itself.
So there is always a dip before halving and this is what we see now ?
There are multiple factors at play right now, including miner selling some of their bitcoin to cover operational expenses. Whales and institutions have been very active in attempts to liquidate day traders and scare inexperienced bitcoin hodlers into panic selling; both with the aim of buying bitcoin at lower prices.
Ok I buy the dip in a DCA manner
Or pay their power bill.
Hopefully they’ve learned their lesson and have a few solar panels hooked up already lol
A few? You mean a few hundred/thousand?
No man, halving Double price of the coin
You can google it, the halving affects miners negatively during the first few months.
He's joking
I not, if they don't sell the price actually go 10x
This is clear, but the question is why the price of miners is dropping?
Who owns 1.83M coins? All the miners collectively?
Apparently, yes. Since 2020, roughly 330k coins are mined yearly. Before that is was 660k per year. 1.83m unsold coins is not a stretch. That's what "we are early" truly means. There is still plenty of coins available hence it will take another 10 years until we really blast off. Although with the etf it may happen a little faster. Add 2.3m coins on exchanges and you find yourself with about 4m coins left.
I need to see proof that miners are holding 1.8 million coins. Exchanges, sure, but no way miners are sitting on that much BTC.
If I have to guess this is some kind of "sum all coins still sitting in coinbase addresses and add other known pool addresses". I would not be surprised if even those infamous "Satoshi coins" would be summed there as well
Again, I need to see proof. Miners sitting on 1.8 million coins is a wild claim that I have NEVER seen anywhere else.
I fully agree, I have tried to find any proof myself and cannot. From what I understand by the very nature of auto-adjustment miners need to sell almost all their coins. This is why I guess that someone just did dumb summation without any estimates about lost coins from the ancient times.
if you want to prove it yourself and trust nobody, just download Bitcoin blockchain and write a software that will analyze all coinbase (not the exchange) transactions that are unspent, it's not that difficult
There's an index for it MPI or something which kinda tracks it. https://hashrateindex.com/hashrate/pools
This link in no way even hints that miners are sitting on nearly two million BTC.
Yup
It's not in a pool right? It gets regularly distributed from the pools to the individual miners?
A selling off period, surely not the complete reserves for any of the individual mining operations as they stand.
When you own real bitcoin, you can only sell it once.
They HOLDd til the new year and are unloading for expenses while trying not to crash the price. ETFs are trying to accumulate without skyrocketing the price. Crazy world we live in; those who want the price to go higher are selling and those who want the price to go lower are buying.
What's strange about buyers wanting a lower price and sellers (producers) a higher price? Isn't it always like that?
Nothings strange about that. What’s strange is typically if you sell it’s because you think the price is going lower and you buy because you think/want the price to go higher. Miners are highly invested in the idea Bitcoin is going higher. BlackRock would be fine if the price went to a penny as long as investors kept buying their ETF.
POW working as intended :) Guys this is literally why BTC, POS fairytale shipcoins big banks and big boys would controll all the chain creation by having the most coins, nothing to prove but your richess, in BTC you have to spend real energy to create BTC
yep, its seem so few gets it. It holds intrinsic value
This! Don't buy/hold shitcoins!
What’s the other side?
Proof of stake (pos) more coins you own, morr controll you have altcoins are basically ou banking system its a joke, in Bitcoin it doesnt matter how much money you have, you have same controll as someone else - almost zero, who actually has controll are miners that have to spend real power to secure the network, wast amounts of power and noone can take over the network because you would have to spend money not on Bitcoin but on actual hardware to attack the network read up if you are interested
It's just a matter of time until more and more miners who have next to zero energy cost (waste energy/stabilizing grids/ heating water) compete with these giant companies. The halving just makes it even more difficult for them to compete as the revenue gets cut in half.
Agree, but there are also equipment costs, maintenance cost, management, real estate property tax, business taxes.
Makes sense to sell the news. They've got electricity bills to pay and this is likely a local top. Gotta buy more equipment too. Once they run out of BTC to sell we start rising again.
[удалено]
What’s MPI?
Mashed Potatoes Index
It pays dividends in gravy.
I didn’t have the best start to my morning and this comment made me burst out laughing. Thank you :)
Miner' s Position Index, see post title.
Money to buy more antminers.
Why has the price not moved at all
Because there hasn't been an influx of buyers. The ETFs already owned the Bitcoin they needed which is why all the buying over the last year. Wait 24 months and you'll see things change IMHO ... geopolitics will catch up and people will start using BTC like gold to hedge risk
How bad you want it to move?
Coincidentally, BlackRock purchased 10,000 BTC yesterday (who I believe have a large stake in bitcoin mining companies)
Supply is dryer than an octogenarian nun's nasty
Buy what you can before they take it all boys and girls.
The one freaking day I'm not watching the price like a hawk we get a decent dip. Just got some but I see I missed below 41k
Supply and demand shock soon
Sales aren't bad. This is ment to change hands not sit idly for eternity.
Mining Hash rates been growing parabolically and hitting ATHs for months now … be no great surprise if the likes of Blackrock et Al are involved in mining cheap bitcoins ready for the ETFs Launch
Yes baby… Bitcoin on sale!!!!
Why is the miner stock dropping?
Omg
Selling to prepare/buy equipment for halving.
They have operating costs and just gifted everyone the ability to buy at a discount.
Has to suck being a miner and having to sell now
Does this make any sense?
Miners anticipate cash shortages that will likely happen after the halving. It will be a survival game and the ones getting dry first will have to surrender and stop the mining operation.
Got bills to pay and taxes
Surely selling OTC to ETFs
not all miners sell on coinbase
good!
How much BTC do they have left in stock?
Can’t sell without a buyer…
I'm curious if this is why all of the miner stocks are falling more than BTC price or if it's mostly money moving from these stocks into the ETF.
Yes
Where are you getting data about miners reserves?
Sounds like a discount
Is there a ticker for this?
Yeah funny etf's , they couldnt beat bitcoin , now they own it blackrock grayscale was the 3rd largest player blackrock owns stocks in the 2 biggest mining facilities. And on the day of the spot bitcoin etf. Zero sales like nothing 0 , was bought on the spot market. 1500 mil from pocket to pocket , they mined btc at 12000 dollars selling it for 45000 , blackrock made the biggest profit in the whole cryptoindustry
Most likely these funds bought the fking miners out and now get btc for free :/
Massive price manipulation was to be expected after spot ETF approval . And now we see it
Either way… price go fuckin up bitches
Everyone just chill the fuck out, Strap the fuck in and HODL like a mother fucker.
Btc will go to zero
bitcoin is going to shit!
Please provide proof of miners holding 1.8 million BTC. A link or a screenshot would be helpful. Otherwise this post should be labeled misleading. u/rBitcoinmod
miners are really rich I’m wondering have they ever bought any bitcoins? I don’t really get why they are selling this much bitcoins at this time. It’s so weird.
I did this post 2 days ago, title: Miners don't have a clue about bitcoin Look my profile With images of selling and inventory Supply is almost inexistent right now, one soveirgn fund buying would raise prices to 50k easily Keep DCA and hold this 42k line Hodl the line
First off I don't have any Bitcoin I have a family of four girls a wife stuck in Montana desperate About to lose everything So if anybody really wants to help that'd be the key please anything
Fuck miners
The job of a miner is not to hodl.
First time?
Selling to buy more hashrate.. long term strategy to avoid dilution.
Stack sats bud.
Yet BTC price continues to drop 🤫
Anyone here do Bitcoin investment or affiliate marketing, Instagram them page
The halving is coming so for the miners to maintain its current revenue stream, they will need to double their output and that means more capital investments That is why BTC prices usually go down prior to the halving
This have anything to do with miners in Tx shutting down to help the grid? Selling to make up for lost hash rate?
They’re selling to blackrock of course.
Miners run this game
Buy the dip brothers!
Maybe it was OTC deal between the miners and BlackRock