For 1v1s Sword.
I don't think the weapon is game-breaking or anything, but it got a severe lack of recovery time and it's a pain to fight players who know how to abuse this fact. Every time they whiff it's a mind game on whether you can actually punish them before they instantly nlight out of their whiffed attack.
Sword doesnt have crazy damage potential with strings like Gauntlets or Katars, but the weapon is so safe to the point you can just force the pace of the game into those short 1-3 hits engagements, then back to neutral, rinse and repeat without any major commitments, making matches kinda of a slog.
2v2s is Axe.
I have been playing this game since 2018, with occasional breaks and comebacks, aswell as over 3000 hours registered on steam.
And during all this time, I've never seen a single moment where Axe wasnt at least "A-tier" in 2v2. Worst part is that I feel it isnt even due to the weapon, but rather how Brawlhalla's map design for 2v2 works.
2v2 maps for some reason are extremelly cramped. Some 2v2 maps are even shared in the 1v1 map pool. Now combine that with a weapon with hitboxes so big they occupy most of this already cramped space.
Good Axe players in 2v2 can deny any semblance of map control you want to have, and it's not like its easy to punish them, since in 2v2 there's a teammate to cover your whiffs and deny punishes.
Worst part is, if you nerf Axe with all this in mind, you might kill the weapon in 1v1.
There's no easy fix for that imo besides BMG get it together and make decently sized maps for 2v2.
I disagree with the sword take tbh, it’s a very strong weapon definitely but most people play it as a secondary weapon to finish stocks, I wouldn’t say it’s the best at anything other than killing. I would say greatsword, katars, bow, axe and even orb are all stronger than it in ones.
Axe is also really strong in 1s so I wouldn’t really worry about killing the weapon in 1s, the nerf is deserved and the weapon would still be playable in ones.
That's the thing about sword, it doesn't have to be the best at anything. Hammer's a better kill tool, katars has more string potential, scythe has more off ledge game, bow is better in neutral. What makes sword so good is that it can do everything almost as well as the weapons that excel in those individual categories. It's the most well rounded and lacks any glaring weaknesses.
I just feel like the weapon isn’t something most people would consider to be the top of the meta. It’s consistent and reliable, but it’s not amazing. A weapon like katars can bring your enemy down to red in a couple reads. Sword doesn’t have the damage build that other weapons have, it has super easy neutral but you can’t trade on it and you don’t have good dodge punish potential. That’s why it’s relegated to being a stock finishing weapon most of the time. Ask any pro player what they think the best weapon is and pretty much none of them will say sword. It’ll never be the worst weapon, but it’s not the best either.
Sword is just a good secondary to have that complements basically every other weapon. There's no bad sword legend in the game simply because sword can cover almost every weakness of the other weapon. Almost all sword legends are super good, except for thatch and jiro. That's more because of their stats than the weapon pairing.
Yes, it’s a very good secondary weapon to have but I doubt you’re playing a sword legend for the sword. You’re playing Asuri for katars, Jaeyun for greatsword, sidra for cannon, Roland for Lance, Jiro for scythe, etc. I doubt any person who plays a sword legend is actively throwing away their other weapon to play sword. It’s almost always to build damage with the other weapon and finish with sword. I would argue that orb is strictly better than sword because they do the same thing but orb has more string potential while also having the consistency of sword and maintaining a reliable kill confirm. Is sword strong? Yes, it’s strong. But is it the best weapon? No.
I know that, my comment was a supporting argument to your first comment. The fact it's a super reliable secondary is the reason why it's so good on most legends with sword. Indeed nobody plays a sword legend for sword and rather the other weapon but, it's a great complimentary weapon.
Sword is great and incredibly versatile, but bow is on a totally different level of broken once you really learn it. Not complaining, I use both bow and sword a lot
I also dont think it's the absolute #1 weapon. Other weapons like Katars, Scythe, Gauntlets and Greatsword all have a higher ceiling than sword.
They all have crazy damage potential with strings but they all have some kind of tradeoff. Katars and Gauntlets can struggle killing without signatures, Scythe literally abandons having true combos and if you dare whiff a single move on Greatsword, your recovery frames are a whole ass movie.
Sword however, has a higher *floor* than all of them. Everybody and their grandmother can master sword in a few matches, yet the weapon is crazy consistent in every aspect (even though not being strictly THE best on any of them) and has some of the most ridiculous framedata in the game.
It's just too easy and safe to use for the value it can provide, due to how much of a room for error the lack of recovery frames gives the player.
Not necessarily an "oMG tHiS is Br0kEN" kinda of weapon, but annoying to go up against.
Sword is pretty consistently the best weapon in Brawlhalla. It’s easy, fast, and has true combos.
Has my vote for best 1s weapon.
In 2s, it would have gone to gauntlets before the most recent nerf, but it now goes to axe. Its main weaknesses are covered by having a teammate.
As for the worst weapons, in 2s it’s pretty unanimously greatsword. Worse than every other weapon in every conceivable way in a 2v2 scenario.
In 1s, my vote goes to Lance. It simply has too much end lag, too shitty of a recovery, and is too predictable. Good luck hitting anyone with a sair at 2200+. Cannon is legitimately just the better lance (shame there’s no cannon hammer…)
As a cannon main in the 2000-2100 range. I agree with you, unless you are using a cannon legend fighting against lance 😂 lance can beat out cannon 90% of the time with how far those hitboxes reach.
I disagree with the sword take, it’s decent at everything but doesn’t excel at anything other than killing so most people just end up using it as a secondary weapon to kill. I think greatsword, axe, orb, bow, katars have more strengths than sword.
it has so little punishability; nlight, sair, dair, and dlight all have very little recovery frames. Its kill power is merely enhanced by this; its kill power comes from how good the moves are.
That's an interesting take... I mean lance definitely doesn't do well against people who know how to counter it so I get putting that at the bottom. But gaunts on top? It's my favorite weapon so I'm biased obviously but I feel like it's inconsistent. Like the differences between when I bring my A game and my B, C, D games or whatever seems to be so much bigger than with something like spear or bow. With gauntlets, when I'm focused and have a good idea of how my opponent likes to play and when they tend to panic, it's hilarious how easy it is sometimes to zero to death people, kill in yellow etc. But when I'm tired, not paying attention or just tilted or something I tend to get utterly destroyed in situations where I feel like something as free as sword or bow would have allowed me to at least make my opponent respect my space a bit, even though I have probably 5 times as many hours on gauntlets as on bow and sword combined lmao.
I’m decently high elo (around 2400) and i would say that the best weapon is probably blasters or gauntlets. Nothing like playing a spacing god who’s insane and blasters, feels nearly impossible. And the worst weapon is probably lance, I just don’t see that many lance players in my rank and it just seems alot easier to take advantage of the end lag compared to weapons like bow.
Bro is literally just lying lmao. Guns is pretty universally seen as the worst weapon in 1s by a good margin. If you're losing to blasters you are being unbelievably outplayed. Gauntlets are also decent but nowhere close to best.
Maybe in his experience he just does worst against blasters players, nothing wrong with that. If it was left to me i couldn't do anything against boomie's blasters for example
“Diamonds” is a really broad term. It’s the widest elo range. You can be like 2500 and be diamond (if you don’t have 100 win). But the difference between a low diamond and even like 2200-2300 is like the difference from plat 1 to diamond. Big.
Anyway, the best weapons are whateve my opponent is playing, and the worst are the ones I’m using.
in 1s i’d agree with you yeah, katars is really easy once you learn how to input the moves: it just relies on your reading skill after that. Blasters/hammer require too much skill for not enough payoff compared to sword, katars, spear, bow, etc.
Hammer is good but not that good, neutral is pretty difficult on the weapon. With weapons like greatsword, katars, bow, orb, axe, being as strong as they are, I don’t think hammer is S tier.
Teros is just meta right now. He got some significant buffs, axe is strong, the weapon combo is good, dex is in a horrible place and teros has no dex plus his sigs are strong. No weapons are bad tbh, imo not even any weapon is really op, perhaps bow but so few people are actually good enough with it that it probably won't get nerfed in any big way. But in any case, Teros doing well has little to do with hammer being a god tier or a shit tier weapon. All weapons are good, fuck it, all characters are good.
I agree with you in a lot of what you said, but to me Teros is so good right now that it inflates the "ranking" of hammer in comparison to other weapons. Still not one of the best, but very good nonethelessy
I suppose you could see it that way. I guess I'm seeing teros' hammer and just hammer in general as seperate things within the context of the weapons-comparing conversation. I also just don't really think the whole which-is-stronger comparison conversations are useful in general tbh. Like I could try and always just use the most meta weapons, the most broken character with the best sigs, the best stats etc. but in the end, I have more fun with someone like Diana or isaiah or kaya than I tend to with teros, and as a consequence I will do much better with those characters.
I can totally see your point and also agree with it, there are 2 ways to evaluate the weapon, the weapon in itself and the legends with the weapon.
I also don't like playing Teros, I prefer lin fei and red raptor
Valhallan is the only place where meta matters, maybe high diamond too. I hate fighting gauntlets cause everyone has a good gauntlets character and I suck at fighting em. Sword sucks when fighting someone who knows what they are doing, Axe too. 99% of the time though you lose cause the other person played better. Also cannon
Best is probably a close race between orb and katars I'd say, although the real best weapon is Teros's axe. Many top players have commented on how hard the character has been carrying average players in this meta.
Worst is lance and blasters by FAR. The third worst weapon is miles above these guys. But between the two the general consensus is lance is still a bit better.
I don't mean to be rude (hijacking your post and all) and I hope you don't mind but I do have a question that I think would push the subject matter. And I believe it's a topic that typically goes unchecked a lot.
[NOT INCLUDING SIGS] ONLY base attacks/cool downs/weapon dismounts
As a Diamond what's your take on the long ranged weapons (bow, spear, lance, hammer) vs the mid ranged weapons (scythe, sword, axe, great sword, orb) vs the short ranged weapons (gauntlets, katars, cannon, boots)?
I don't know maybe I have some of the weapons mixed up but...🤷🏾♂️
Keep in mind, changes are not only based on balance, but also on enjoyment, so if a weapon is seen as annoying it will either get tweaked (slightly changed) or nerfed.
So far (in my platinum opinion):
Sword: sair only hits twice if it lands and nlight is slightly more punishable [Stops Sword from throwing out attacks immediately after nlight and makes it slightly worse at edge guarding]
Lance: sair does slightly less stack damage, has a slightly more punishable version if it's too close to the ground, and has slightly longer startup outside of combos, Nair stuns for slightly longer but has slightly more startup and sends a small burst of flames along the ground if it connects with it at the start of the attack, dair has more recovery on whiff, and nlight has more stun [Prevents sair and dair spam, encourages more mix ups and allows for more creative combos]
Scythe: dair either has more startup outside of combos or has less of a janky hit box (drift with a lasting hit box) and nlight has some "hitlag" (idk if I used that term right, but in this case I mean it prevents the user from throwing out other attacks immediately on whiff) [Reduces reliance on dair and Stops it from catching when it shouldn't while making sure that scythe players can't just rely on constant nlights in place]
Katars: more recovery frames on a good few attacks on whiff, or just slower attacks after a whiff [Stops katars from throwing out attacks as soon as they whiff]
Axe: dair has slightly more startup outside of combos while recovery and ground pound only swing around once, and/or have slower swings with wider windows for mid attack punishes [Encourages axe users to mix up approaches and makes recovery and gp more punishable]
Bow: fewer true combos out of dlight and possibly active projectiles instead of instant shots [Less auto combos and *c'mooonnn its like the perfect weapon for active projectiles*]
Here are the ones decided by you guys:
Orb, more recovery time on whiffed dair and gp is faster and has a small amount of momentum drift
[Stops dair spamming and makes gp useful]
Blasters, more recovery on nlight, less drift, shorter attack and more recovery time on sair, slightly more recovery time on dair and groundpound has less recoil after hitting the ground
[Prevents whiff wake-ups, encourages precision with sair, makes dair a bit more punishable, and prevents players from dodging attacks due to gp hitting the ground]
oh jesus that’s a good question this weapon is a mystery ngl. I’d love a recovery rework in its entirety because lance dies the second it’s in disadvantage offstage. Alternatively, in a perfect world, lance recovery is immune to weapon throws (still punishable as all hell but it doesn’t insta-die offstage)
word of advice: don’t make that post. most fan balance changes are shit, nobody agrees on what weapons are good (people are really biased for some reason), and it will literally just cause arguing for no reason.
Totally agree with all of these. For orb a nerf I would suggest is making dair have more end lag, as it is really easy to spam any attack after missing it. In exchange make gp better, as it is almost useless
First of all, everything is strong and meta differences are largely minute and ignorable. That being said, certain weapons are stronger than others.
I would say greatsword, axe, katars are the strongest weapons in ones. Greatsword is still just super cheese and spammy with high damage, large coverage dodge punishes and broken aerials. Axe allows you to win neutral less than your opponent and still win, very simple game plan. Katars have ridiculously easy neutral (arguably the easiest in the entire game) and very fast, unpunishable light attacks.
For twos, I would say spear, axe, gauntlets. Axe just does ridiculous damage in a setting where so many moves connect. Gauntlets and spear both have insane combo potential and follow up ability.
As for the weakest weapons, I think gauntlets in ones are rather weak because they have been nerfed super hard due their prevalence in 2s, and had a lot of dodge punish capabilities taken away. I also think blasters aren’t the greatest.
In twos obviously greatsword and katars are the worst weapons because they have zero combo potential.
I was thinking less of 2s tbh. That mode is so much of "pick wu shang and then either Teros or Ulgrim" and then is decided by who gets the most team combos at the top top level
I don't think axe needs high strength at all. The important stat is speed imo. I don't play axe that much myself, but I feel like it's almost impossible to lose against a low speed axe character, especially when I'm focused.
I disagree, strength allows the few moves that axe connects to matter way more. Axe players tend to play more grounded anyway so speed matters less, plus dash changes benefitted axe a lot. Strength gives axe the ability to win neutral less and still win, which is what the weapon wants to do.
I think greastsword is really good right now but not super cheese because it still relies on you getting either a slight or grounded dair to get a chance to read and has really shit neutral, especially since the opponent knows you're fishing for a sligjt and can avoid it more easily.
Hard disagree, the neutral is piss easy, you can just spam side light and nlight in neutral and most of the time you can spot dodge the punish or dash away because of the low lag on the grounded starters. You don’t even need to read on the weapon, you could probably win just by spamming the broken aerials and poking them with starters. The reads are super high reward for relatively little risk. You can get them off nlight or dlight too. It’s definitely the cheesiest weapon in the game just because of the nature of the weapon. You’re not going to be fishing for sidelight if your opponent isn’t falling for it, you mix up your options and greatsword excels at that.
Slight is definitely not free anymore after the last patch it's really punishable atm. Nlight is not free either. Neutral with against a player who knows what he's doing is pretty hard with GS especially vs bow. If you mash openers on GS and don't get punished for it, your opponent is just flat out bad.
Bro I see valhallans mash on the weapon and succeed. Sure the nerf did impact slight but I still find myself being able to spam out moves and not really be punished a whole lot. I’m not saying it’s super broken and allows you to get away with everything, but it’s 100% the most boosted weapon everywhere below pro play because no one knows how to play against it properly. I can play in diamond consistently despite me being bad at the game because the weapon is so fundamentally strong.
Right now I think it’s not the weapon just stat diff
Movement is so free now that speed is really not needed.. better off being 7+ strength, abusing dash mechanics, and taking stocks from 4 neutral interactions
Fucking Xull or teros? Lmao on hattori you need to sweat your absolute ass of meanwhile this guy can ooga booga his neutral game and by the grace of god a couple nlight and dlights later you’re dead
I am a very low EU diamond, so it will be diferent to higher elo people, but I have a lot of problems dealing with some axe, katars and gautlents in general. I have a easier time against lance, blasters and scythe. It all depends on the player tho
I think however that anyone can give his opinion on what the meta is, and sometimes some changes should be made based on lower ranked players
I see, luckily I have katars and axe on the nerf list, but I'm worried about also having scythe and Lance there too, is there anything in specific that makes them easier to go up against?
Against lance just stay as grounded as possible. And bait them with dash jump back dodge or go through them with dash spot dodges.
Against scythe mixup your dodges and learn when you can use wake ups as a mixup. Also don't dodge immediately everytime you get hit. Most scythe players don't know what to do if you dodges later than normal.
Their players are usually really predictable, and go for moves which for me are easier to punish. For example lance, they almost always go for grounded sair or dair and then double whiff with a dlight, scythe is slight or nlight do double whiff dair. However gaunts and axe are in my opinion harder to punish, as gaunts slight puts them pretty high in the air and I can't get a good punish and they can jump easily, and axe dair, nlight and dlight are too fast for the area they cover.
I play cannon and Red raptor mainly btw.
I see, I see....
Well in that case I think that nerfing Lance and scythe's reliance on specific moves might actually be better for its players.
And I'll keep that gauntlets thing in mind, I can definitely see how that would be annoying.
I totally agree, it would greatly benefit them, as I bet that if the day comes those moves are properly nerfed most of scythe and lance mains will drop down a lot and cry a lot because they are so dependent on those moves, but in the end will play and adapt a lot better. It would also be more fun to play against them
Yeah, the gautlents thing is pretty anoying, if you don't have the right weapon it is really hard to deal a good punish, which makes the move very safe for it's benefits
For 1v1s Sword. I don't think the weapon is game-breaking or anything, but it got a severe lack of recovery time and it's a pain to fight players who know how to abuse this fact. Every time they whiff it's a mind game on whether you can actually punish them before they instantly nlight out of their whiffed attack. Sword doesnt have crazy damage potential with strings like Gauntlets or Katars, but the weapon is so safe to the point you can just force the pace of the game into those short 1-3 hits engagements, then back to neutral, rinse and repeat without any major commitments, making matches kinda of a slog. 2v2s is Axe. I have been playing this game since 2018, with occasional breaks and comebacks, aswell as over 3000 hours registered on steam. And during all this time, I've never seen a single moment where Axe wasnt at least "A-tier" in 2v2. Worst part is that I feel it isnt even due to the weapon, but rather how Brawlhalla's map design for 2v2 works. 2v2 maps for some reason are extremelly cramped. Some 2v2 maps are even shared in the 1v1 map pool. Now combine that with a weapon with hitboxes so big they occupy most of this already cramped space. Good Axe players in 2v2 can deny any semblance of map control you want to have, and it's not like its easy to punish them, since in 2v2 there's a teammate to cover your whiffs and deny punishes. Worst part is, if you nerf Axe with all this in mind, you might kill the weapon in 1v1. There's no easy fix for that imo besides BMG get it together and make decently sized maps for 2v2.
Oh damn i unconsciously play sword like that..
Everybody does lol
Yeah bro cause whatever reason you just nair… dair… sair.. what is a dlight?
Good to know, with that I might just try to make some maps for axe to be fair on, and Sword is already on my nerf/tweak list for those reasons
I disagree with the sword take tbh, it’s a very strong weapon definitely but most people play it as a secondary weapon to finish stocks, I wouldn’t say it’s the best at anything other than killing. I would say greatsword, katars, bow, axe and even orb are all stronger than it in ones. Axe is also really strong in 1s so I wouldn’t really worry about killing the weapon in 1s, the nerf is deserved and the weapon would still be playable in ones.
That's the thing about sword, it doesn't have to be the best at anything. Hammer's a better kill tool, katars has more string potential, scythe has more off ledge game, bow is better in neutral. What makes sword so good is that it can do everything almost as well as the weapons that excel in those individual categories. It's the most well rounded and lacks any glaring weaknesses.
I just feel like the weapon isn’t something most people would consider to be the top of the meta. It’s consistent and reliable, but it’s not amazing. A weapon like katars can bring your enemy down to red in a couple reads. Sword doesn’t have the damage build that other weapons have, it has super easy neutral but you can’t trade on it and you don’t have good dodge punish potential. That’s why it’s relegated to being a stock finishing weapon most of the time. Ask any pro player what they think the best weapon is and pretty much none of them will say sword. It’ll never be the worst weapon, but it’s not the best either.
Sword is just a good secondary to have that complements basically every other weapon. There's no bad sword legend in the game simply because sword can cover almost every weakness of the other weapon. Almost all sword legends are super good, except for thatch and jiro. That's more because of their stats than the weapon pairing.
Yes, it’s a very good secondary weapon to have but I doubt you’re playing a sword legend for the sword. You’re playing Asuri for katars, Jaeyun for greatsword, sidra for cannon, Roland for Lance, Jiro for scythe, etc. I doubt any person who plays a sword legend is actively throwing away their other weapon to play sword. It’s almost always to build damage with the other weapon and finish with sword. I would argue that orb is strictly better than sword because they do the same thing but orb has more string potential while also having the consistency of sword and maintaining a reliable kill confirm. Is sword strong? Yes, it’s strong. But is it the best weapon? No.
I know that, my comment was a supporting argument to your first comment. The fact it's a super reliable secondary is the reason why it's so good on most legends with sword. Indeed nobody plays a sword legend for sword and rather the other weapon but, it's a great complimentary weapon.
Yeah I agree with that
Sword is great and incredibly versatile, but bow is on a totally different level of broken once you really learn it. Not complaining, I use both bow and sword a lot
I also dont think it's the absolute #1 weapon. Other weapons like Katars, Scythe, Gauntlets and Greatsword all have a higher ceiling than sword. They all have crazy damage potential with strings but they all have some kind of tradeoff. Katars and Gauntlets can struggle killing without signatures, Scythe literally abandons having true combos and if you dare whiff a single move on Greatsword, your recovery frames are a whole ass movie. Sword however, has a higher *floor* than all of them. Everybody and their grandmother can master sword in a few matches, yet the weapon is crazy consistent in every aspect (even though not being strictly THE best on any of them) and has some of the most ridiculous framedata in the game. It's just too easy and safe to use for the value it can provide, due to how much of a room for error the lack of recovery frames gives the player. Not necessarily an "oMG tHiS is Br0kEN" kinda of weapon, but annoying to go up against.
Sword is pretty consistently the best weapon in Brawlhalla. It’s easy, fast, and has true combos. Has my vote for best 1s weapon. In 2s, it would have gone to gauntlets before the most recent nerf, but it now goes to axe. Its main weaknesses are covered by having a teammate. As for the worst weapons, in 2s it’s pretty unanimously greatsword. Worse than every other weapon in every conceivable way in a 2v2 scenario. In 1s, my vote goes to Lance. It simply has too much end lag, too shitty of a recovery, and is too predictable. Good luck hitting anyone with a sair at 2200+. Cannon is legitimately just the better lance (shame there’s no cannon hammer…)
As a cannon main in the 2000-2100 range. I agree with you, unless you are using a cannon legend fighting against lance 😂 lance can beat out cannon 90% of the time with how far those hitboxes reach.
feels 50-50 as the 2200 scarlet player, honestly. My hitboxes beat your weapon but your weapon is better than my weapon so it works out in the end
I disagree with the sword take, it’s decent at everything but doesn’t excel at anything other than killing so most people just end up using it as a secondary weapon to kill. I think greatsword, axe, orb, bow, katars have more strengths than sword.
it has so little punishability; nlight, sair, dair, and dlight all have very little recovery frames. Its kill power is merely enhanced by this; its kill power comes from how good the moves are.
Idk. Maybe like gaunts as the best? And lance as the worst? Fuck idk I hate them all
Fair 💀
Axe is definitely the best ATM and it's mind numbing to play against
lol that's why I thumbs down every axe player I encounter
That's an interesting take... I mean lance definitely doesn't do well against people who know how to counter it so I get putting that at the bottom. But gaunts on top? It's my favorite weapon so I'm biased obviously but I feel like it's inconsistent. Like the differences between when I bring my A game and my B, C, D games or whatever seems to be so much bigger than with something like spear or bow. With gauntlets, when I'm focused and have a good idea of how my opponent likes to play and when they tend to panic, it's hilarious how easy it is sometimes to zero to death people, kill in yellow etc. But when I'm tired, not paying attention or just tilted or something I tend to get utterly destroyed in situations where I feel like something as free as sword or bow would have allowed me to at least make my opponent respect my space a bit, even though I have probably 5 times as many hours on gauntlets as on bow and sword combined lmao.
I’m decently high elo (around 2400) and i would say that the best weapon is probably blasters or gauntlets. Nothing like playing a spacing god who’s insane and blasters, feels nearly impossible. And the worst weapon is probably lance, I just don’t see that many lance players in my rank and it just seems alot easier to take advantage of the end lag compared to weapons like bow.
Good to know, I always did think blasters were possibly too fast in the right hands
Bro is literally just lying lmao. Guns is pretty universally seen as the worst weapon in 1s by a good margin. If you're losing to blasters you are being unbelievably outplayed. Gauntlets are also decent but nowhere close to best.
yea i was gonna say, blasters as best weapon is a crazy take …
Maybe in his experience he just does worst against blasters players, nothing wrong with that. If it was left to me i couldn't do anything against boomie's blasters for example
Really? It’s the exact opposite for me, I thought gaunts and blasters are the weakest weapons in ones.
“Diamonds” is a really broad term. It’s the widest elo range. You can be like 2500 and be diamond (if you don’t have 100 win). But the difference between a low diamond and even like 2200-2300 is like the difference from plat 1 to diamond. Big. Anyway, the best weapons are whateve my opponent is playing, and the worst are the ones I’m using.
Best and easiest to climb with is Katars. Worst is blasters maybe hammer.
in 1s i’d agree with you yeah, katars is really easy once you learn how to input the moves: it just relies on your reading skill after that. Blasters/hammer require too much skill for not enough payoff compared to sword, katars, spear, bow, etc.
I don’t even think you need reading skill with Katars. A good reaction time is enough with that weapon. More then enough
i mean those are inherently similar skills
Reading is more recognizing a pattern and predicting. Reacting is just being a godly gamer
Hammer has great pay off hence why the top pros use it but in normal diamond players are just too ass with it and can’t climb
Hammer will always be S tier at any rank and anyone who says otherwise is just bad with hammer
worst take i’ve ever seen holy shit
Hammer is good but not that good, neutral is pretty difficult on the weapon. With weapons like greatsword, katars, bow, orb, axe, being as strong as they are, I don’t think hammer is S tier.
It can't that bad with the amount of Teros in ranked, at least in EU, don't know about other regions
Teros is just meta right now. He got some significant buffs, axe is strong, the weapon combo is good, dex is in a horrible place and teros has no dex plus his sigs are strong. No weapons are bad tbh, imo not even any weapon is really op, perhaps bow but so few people are actually good enough with it that it probably won't get nerfed in any big way. But in any case, Teros doing well has little to do with hammer being a god tier or a shit tier weapon. All weapons are good, fuck it, all characters are good.
I agree with you in a lot of what you said, but to me Teros is so good right now that it inflates the "ranking" of hammer in comparison to other weapons. Still not one of the best, but very good nonethelessy
I suppose you could see it that way. I guess I'm seeing teros' hammer and just hammer in general as seperate things within the context of the weapons-comparing conversation. I also just don't really think the whole which-is-stronger comparison conversations are useful in general tbh. Like I could try and always just use the most meta weapons, the most broken character with the best sigs, the best stats etc. but in the end, I have more fun with someone like Diana or isaiah or kaya than I tend to with teros, and as a consequence I will do much better with those characters.
I can totally see your point and also agree with it, there are 2 ways to evaluate the weapon, the weapon in itself and the legends with the weapon. I also don't like playing Teros, I prefer lin fei and red raptor
Axe feels super opressive rn, you can hit trade all game and win by a stock.
84 already?
Im at 85 now
Level 85 reno?? That's pretty noice
My Reno is only like 30 something
Thats not bad most people dont even play him
Valhallan is the only place where meta matters, maybe high diamond too. I hate fighting gauntlets cause everyone has a good gauntlets character and I suck at fighting em. Sword sucks when fighting someone who knows what they are doing, Axe too. 99% of the time though you lose cause the other person played better. Also cannon
Best is probably a close race between orb and katars I'd say, although the real best weapon is Teros's axe. Many top players have commented on how hard the character has been carrying average players in this meta. Worst is lance and blasters by FAR. The third worst weapon is miles above these guys. But between the two the general consensus is lance is still a bit better.
Most people are saying lance is one of the worst weapons in 1v1, yet want it nerfed. Someone help me out here 
I'm assuming they mean at high ranks it sucks but in lower it can be annoying and I understand both sides honestly
It's annoying even at higher ranks. Just super one dimensional.
I do believe you fully I just don't personally know any high rank players
I don't mean to be rude (hijacking your post and all) and I hope you don't mind but I do have a question that I think would push the subject matter. And I believe it's a topic that typically goes unchecked a lot. [NOT INCLUDING SIGS] ONLY base attacks/cool downs/weapon dismounts As a Diamond what's your take on the long ranged weapons (bow, spear, lance, hammer) vs the mid ranged weapons (scythe, sword, axe, great sword, orb) vs the short ranged weapons (gauntlets, katars, cannon, boots)? I don't know maybe I have some of the weapons mixed up but...🤷🏾♂️
Keep in mind, changes are not only based on balance, but also on enjoyment, so if a weapon is seen as annoying it will either get tweaked (slightly changed) or nerfed. So far (in my platinum opinion): Sword: sair only hits twice if it lands and nlight is slightly more punishable [Stops Sword from throwing out attacks immediately after nlight and makes it slightly worse at edge guarding] Lance: sair does slightly less stack damage, has a slightly more punishable version if it's too close to the ground, and has slightly longer startup outside of combos, Nair stuns for slightly longer but has slightly more startup and sends a small burst of flames along the ground if it connects with it at the start of the attack, dair has more recovery on whiff, and nlight has more stun [Prevents sair and dair spam, encourages more mix ups and allows for more creative combos] Scythe: dair either has more startup outside of combos or has less of a janky hit box (drift with a lasting hit box) and nlight has some "hitlag" (idk if I used that term right, but in this case I mean it prevents the user from throwing out other attacks immediately on whiff) [Reduces reliance on dair and Stops it from catching when it shouldn't while making sure that scythe players can't just rely on constant nlights in place] Katars: more recovery frames on a good few attacks on whiff, or just slower attacks after a whiff [Stops katars from throwing out attacks as soon as they whiff] Axe: dair has slightly more startup outside of combos while recovery and ground pound only swing around once, and/or have slower swings with wider windows for mid attack punishes [Encourages axe users to mix up approaches and makes recovery and gp more punishable] Bow: fewer true combos out of dlight and possibly active projectiles instead of instant shots [Less auto combos and *c'mooonnn its like the perfect weapon for active projectiles*] Here are the ones decided by you guys: Orb, more recovery time on whiffed dair and gp is faster and has a small amount of momentum drift [Stops dair spamming and makes gp useful] Blasters, more recovery on nlight, less drift, shorter attack and more recovery time on sair, slightly more recovery time on dair and groundpound has less recoil after hitting the ground [Prevents whiff wake-ups, encourages precision with sair, makes dair a bit more punishable, and prevents players from dodging attacks due to gp hitting the ground]
lance MORE punishable lmfaoooooo this weapon is near unusable at a high level because of *how* punishable it currently is
I see, how would you buff it? Just decrease some endlag?
oh jesus that’s a good question this weapon is a mystery ngl. I’d love a recovery rework in its entirety because lance dies the second it’s in disadvantage offstage. Alternatively, in a perfect world, lance recovery is immune to weapon throws (still punishable as all hell but it doesn’t insta-die offstage)
I see... ill see what i can with that. BTW, I made a more complete version of this list on my latest post, might have some more stuff there if u want
word of advice: don’t make that post. most fan balance changes are shit, nobody agrees on what weapons are good (people are really biased for some reason), and it will literally just cause arguing for no reason.
I, erhm... already did?
Seems like it's got fairly decent reception in the comments, and a few fair criticisms that i used to improve the list
Totally agree with all of these. For orb a nerf I would suggest is making dair have more end lag, as it is really easy to spam any attack after missing it. In exchange make gp better, as it is almost useless
I'm not diamond or anything but I hate all of them. Hope this helps :)
Strongest - katars. Weakest - lance. Most annoying - scythe. Jesus christ stop dairing
I feel so happy when I queue into a scythe player and literally the only thing they know how to do is jump around and throw out random dairs
First of all, everything is strong and meta differences are largely minute and ignorable. That being said, certain weapons are stronger than others. I would say greatsword, axe, katars are the strongest weapons in ones. Greatsword is still just super cheese and spammy with high damage, large coverage dodge punishes and broken aerials. Axe allows you to win neutral less than your opponent and still win, very simple game plan. Katars have ridiculously easy neutral (arguably the easiest in the entire game) and very fast, unpunishable light attacks. For twos, I would say spear, axe, gauntlets. Axe just does ridiculous damage in a setting where so many moves connect. Gauntlets and spear both have insane combo potential and follow up ability. As for the weakest weapons, I think gauntlets in ones are rather weak because they have been nerfed super hard due their prevalence in 2s, and had a lot of dodge punish capabilities taken away. I also think blasters aren’t the greatest. In twos obviously greatsword and katars are the worst weapons because they have zero combo potential.
Axe is disgusting no doubt but it's mainly because of a few characters like Teros or Xull. Orb imo is a bit better than axe by itself.
Don’t forget ulgrim in 2s!
I was thinking less of 2s tbh. That mode is so much of "pick wu shang and then either Teros or Ulgrim" and then is decided by who gets the most team combos at the top top level
true that. It’s definitely the most fun when there aren’t 0td team combos at the 2000ish level
Fair enough, high strength axe is where axe shines for sure. I was debating putting orb because it’s highkey busted
I don't think axe needs high strength at all. The important stat is speed imo. I don't play axe that much myself, but I feel like it's almost impossible to lose against a low speed axe character, especially when I'm focused.
I disagree, strength allows the few moves that axe connects to matter way more. Axe players tend to play more grounded anyway so speed matters less, plus dash changes benefitted axe a lot. Strength gives axe the ability to win neutral less and still win, which is what the weapon wants to do.
I think greastsword is really good right now but not super cheese because it still relies on you getting either a slight or grounded dair to get a chance to read and has really shit neutral, especially since the opponent knows you're fishing for a sligjt and can avoid it more easily.
Hard disagree, the neutral is piss easy, you can just spam side light and nlight in neutral and most of the time you can spot dodge the punish or dash away because of the low lag on the grounded starters. You don’t even need to read on the weapon, you could probably win just by spamming the broken aerials and poking them with starters. The reads are super high reward for relatively little risk. You can get them off nlight or dlight too. It’s definitely the cheesiest weapon in the game just because of the nature of the weapon. You’re not going to be fishing for sidelight if your opponent isn’t falling for it, you mix up your options and greatsword excels at that.
Slight is definitely not free anymore after the last patch it's really punishable atm. Nlight is not free either. Neutral with against a player who knows what he's doing is pretty hard with GS especially vs bow. If you mash openers on GS and don't get punished for it, your opponent is just flat out bad.
Bro I see valhallans mash on the weapon and succeed. Sure the nerf did impact slight but I still find myself being able to spam out moves and not really be punished a whole lot. I’m not saying it’s super broken and allows you to get away with everything, but it’s 100% the most boosted weapon everywhere below pro play because no one knows how to play against it properly. I can play in diamond consistently despite me being bad at the game because the weapon is so fundamentally strong.
Right now I think it’s not the weapon just stat diff Movement is so free now that speed is really not needed.. better off being 7+ strength, abusing dash mechanics, and taking stocks from 4 neutral interactions Fucking Xull or teros? Lmao on hattori you need to sweat your absolute ass of meanwhile this guy can ooga booga his neutral game and by the grace of god a couple nlight and dlights later you’re dead
That is the BEST description of Teros and Xull that I've ever heard by ***FAR***
1v1 its far and away orb, not even really a debate. For 2’s it’s probably spear or axe, but I’d take axe personally.
Best is axe worst is blasters
I am a very low EU diamond, so it will be diferent to higher elo people, but I have a lot of problems dealing with some axe, katars and gautlents in general. I have a easier time against lance, blasters and scythe. It all depends on the player tho I think however that anyone can give his opinion on what the meta is, and sometimes some changes should be made based on lower ranked players
I see, luckily I have katars and axe on the nerf list, but I'm worried about also having scythe and Lance there too, is there anything in specific that makes them easier to go up against?
Against lance just stay as grounded as possible. And bait them with dash jump back dodge or go through them with dash spot dodges. Against scythe mixup your dodges and learn when you can use wake ups as a mixup. Also don't dodge immediately everytime you get hit. Most scythe players don't know what to do if you dodges later than normal.
Their players are usually really predictable, and go for moves which for me are easier to punish. For example lance, they almost always go for grounded sair or dair and then double whiff with a dlight, scythe is slight or nlight do double whiff dair. However gaunts and axe are in my opinion harder to punish, as gaunts slight puts them pretty high in the air and I can't get a good punish and they can jump easily, and axe dair, nlight and dlight are too fast for the area they cover. I play cannon and Red raptor mainly btw.
I see, I see.... Well in that case I think that nerfing Lance and scythe's reliance on specific moves might actually be better for its players. And I'll keep that gauntlets thing in mind, I can definitely see how that would be annoying.
I totally agree, it would greatly benefit them, as I bet that if the day comes those moves are properly nerfed most of scythe and lance mains will drop down a lot and cry a lot because they are so dependent on those moves, but in the end will play and adapt a lot better. It would also be more fun to play against them Yeah, the gautlents thing is pretty anoying, if you don't have the right weapon it is really hard to deal a good punish, which makes the move very safe for it's benefits
Orbs are easy to deal with, bad to use. Boots are hard to deal with. Too fast
I would switch but okay
Spear is definitely the best weapon, idk what the worst is tho