You have to keep at it. Getting four cancellations is pretty extreme in my experience. The fact you're getting matches and dates means you'll do just fine.
We’d probably never know the circumstances but one theory - after asking for a date so soon without building any connection these women felt awkward declining so they thought sure why not in the moment but closer to the date there wasn’t actual interest. Do you continue to get to know them after the date is set or just stop texting?
As a woman who’s been in this situation before, it’s quite off putting. I had a guy ask me on a date on the second message in and I agreed to it. He couldn’t meet until the week after, I said I was fine with that. He didn’t really care to get to know me beforehand, I’d ask him a question and he’d ignore it and start talking about how stressful work was, and then he’d keep going on about how excited he was for the date. His profile only had one-word answers for the prompts too so I didn’t have that much to go off.
By the time the date rolled around I was feeling unsure about it as I didn’t know what to expect, there was no connection there. I ended up not going and I told him the morning of that I was slightly uncomfortable, he seemed fine about it but we haven’t spoken again.
I don't understand the guys that say. No never text and talk before the date u might ruin it, run out of things to talk about. I'm like if we run out of things to talk about in a few days then it isn't meant to be
I think people that say this are either super boring to begin with or have such bad social anxiety they struggle to carry on a simple conversation. I’m socially awkward myself but if I’m clicking with a person, either romantically or platonically, the conversation just flows. OP doesn’t need to stay in constant contact with his matches, but he needs to put forth some effort.
All the online dating coaches (all women that I’ve seen) say to make the date and then leave it alone until the day of. Otherwise women will get bored. So that’s wisdom me get.
I dated a guy who didn't text or call between our first few dates and honestly figured he wasn't into me. He was shocked when I ended things.
Guys, girls, please talk somewhat between dates!
I like to talk between dates but people run the spectrum. I’ve had women who cancelled the first date because I wasn’t texting them good morning and throughout the day (we hadn’t met yet) and I’ve had women who got the ick because I tried texting a few times before we’d met. Everyone brings their own stuff to the table. I’d say the majority of people like a little texting.
It depends on the person. Some people aren’t comfortable without talking while others would rather go on a date first. I’ve had good and bad experiences with both
This is exactly what I was thinking.
If you're getting 4 cancellations within a week, there's something else going on.
Everyone's different though. Women are not a monolith. You just need to keep trying or take a break from the apps.
Cancelling a date on the day of still sucks, of course.
Personally, I rarely go out with someone without chatting a little first. Maybe a few days of messaging once or twice a day. And I'm busy, so I usually don't accept a date within the next few days of speaking. I prefer 4-7 days in advance. It just depends.
This right here. As a man, I’d definitely wait up to a week of chatting. Maybe after 3 days we do a virtual to make sure we are who we say we are. 3-5 messages, OP, they didn’t even know who you were and you put them on the spot.
Both asking quickly and chatting for a while work equally well in my experience, success just depends on the opposite person. Based on EU tho, may be different in the US.
Well once a date is set then there's really no need to keep chatting via text in my opinion. I'll end up asking them those same questions in person, if I don't screw up and say something dumb before I even get that far, that is.
Perhaps there wasn't enough interest to go on the date, but then why agree to the date in the first place? Instead of simply stating "I'd like to chat more before we set something up" (which I have had happen, and that's fine, but they end up being the ones who ghost).
Some people might say that continuing to text leading up to the date my spark more of an interest and might make them more eager. Obviously there are always going to be people who ghost and cancel last minute, men or women, but if you are looking for something more than a casual hookup it might be something to consider. Many women might feel uncomfortable saying no in the moment, and get more unsure as they are left in silence after the date is set. It brings up the question, how you respond if they initiate conversation after the date is set? They might be more comfortable and feel like you are slightly less of a stranger.
>get more unsure as they are left in silence after the date is set
"Left in silence" as in "she tried keeping the conversation going but the guy stopped replying"? Then absolutely, that should be grounds for cancelling. However I think in many cases it's more that the guy hasn't read her mind and initiated new conversation (or kept it going) when he didn't deem it necessary but she would like to but refuses to make it happen herself for some reason. I've had a few such cases happen and just shake my head at it - good grief, have some agency of your own please!
I also think it's not always about the conversation being paused (to be resumed on the date) but also about the time that passed. If the date is, say, 1-2 weeks in the future, the likelihood of flaking/cancelling/being stood up on to occur is much higher. Because the emotions she felt over text about me have dwindled. Sending her a text 1-2 days before the date, reaffirming the date and saying or referencing something that re-kindles those emotions usually does the trick for me, but I much prefer to set it in the very near future if we can accommodate it.
Right. None of them attempted to keep the conversation going. I would absolutely keep talking to them if they so desired, but I also don't want to be the dude who lingers and doesn't know when to leave it alone, then end up shooting myself in the foot. I don't want to smother somebody, and I don't want someone to smother me either. It's a two sided game, maybe that should have been my clue that they weren't really all that interested in the first place.
I don't think it's about "reading her mind." I know plenty of women who will text guys once or twice with no response before they decide to cancel. I'm not saying that upholding a conversation needs to be priority number 1, but if you truly want to meet someone, maybe it should at least be somewhere on that list. Also, to a lesser extent, if you want to just leave a conversation til the date, then you need to be explicit about that fact. There is the potential that's it wasn't, and she misunderstood.
I agree somewhat about the timeline mattering, but if I set a date out a week or two in advance then I think that there should still be conversation I think it's a realistic possibility that many women wouldn't want to go on a date with a stranger that have heard from in a week. I just think that putting a conversation on hold because he doesn't think it's "necessary" could present a problem down the line if she is someone who is communicative.
>I know plenty of women who will text guys once or twice with no response before they decide to cancel
I did cover the scenario you mentioned though and said cancelling in that case is understandable. What I said was unreasonable is a situation where she wants to keep talking but makes zero effort to and expects him to read her mind and make things happen for her. If she is indeed someone who is communicative then she should start by communicating her wants and needs, or at least have some agency and try to initiate a new conversation with him instead of waiting for him to do so!
For every woman who does exactly that there are men who just couldn't care about her efforts because it's easier for him to ignore them. It doesn't make either right it just what it is if his preference is that then like I said maybe he also needs to communicate that better
And that may be so (same in the reverse) but if she makes no attempt then it's strange to cancel a date over it. Might be better for the other person though. If someone has a need, does nothing to communicate it and then gets upset over not having said need satisfied, then that is to me a person who displays toxic behaviour and is not adult enough to have the communication skills for a relationship
I'm not sure how other women feel, but to me, it's not about the agency or ability to initiate the conversation on my part. I do my fair share of initiating and communicating either way. It's more about the fact that I'm looking for a man who values communication as much as I do on his own - without requiring a prompt or initiation from me. Meaning, I want the type of man who is naturally communicative with everyone.
In addition, I am a person who wants to know others deeply. I believe that you could spend a lifetime connecting and communicating with a person and still never fully *know* them.
So anyone who is of the opinion that they won't have any more questions to ask on the date if they text the days leading up to the date, is never going to be a match for me.
I also very much value curiosity - I'm always asking questions and engaging in conversation. If my date doesn't exhibit a similar curiosity, I feel we won't be a good match.
I don't think anyone is doing anything "wrong." They simply aren't a good match for one another. Perhaps OP would have better results if he did text leading up to the date, but I'm not sure if that would be him being true to himself or if masking as a person that would do that would lead to the relationship he wants, with a person that he's compatible with.
I do agree that setting dates up too far ahead will generally diminish the possibility of follow through.
Well if I understood you correctly there will be no waiting for him to initiate because you will. And you will make an effort to keep it going. OP mentioned the women he meant were not like you because they were just as silent as he was and if there had been messages from them then he would have replied. So my response was tailored with that in mind
Him simply responding to my message would not be sufficient. I didn't delve into what I meant by not having an issue initiating or communicating. To clarify, I'm looking for someone to reciprocate my energy.
I may initiate the first text, but I will not continue to do so if he doesn't also initiate. I will ask questions and have engaging conversations, but I won't continue to do so if he doesn't also ask questions.
Is that pretty much what you meant as well?
No, I had misunderstood you slightly. I understand now that you will make an effort, then stop and test if he reciprocates it. That if he doesn't then you won't voice your needs and just cancel the date instead. I guess you can see it as an incompatibility and move on in that case indeed. But things might just sometimes change for the better if you do voice your expectations. It reminds me of love language stuff in relationships. You can work it out even if you prefer different styles, but if you resent instead of communicate then the entire thing will crash and burn.
Anyway, I digress. I would act differently and at least say something before giving up. They might just react enthusiastically and show their communicative side more -- or be annoyed at it, in which case it is safe to cut them loose without a doubt! But I also think the way you do it is better than sitting back and waiting for them to do the work. You clearly seem to be doing your part!
I have had women continue to text me after setting a date that was a week out. Pretty much every day until we met up. How I responded was the same way I message people on bumble, I got around to it when I had the time to. I still don't make them a priority because I still don't know them. We ended up meeting up and she came over after.
It depends on a case by case basis right? If she's interested in me, she will show me. If she isn't, she will show me. But canceling on a date at the 11th hour is just poor character.
Same could be said from their point of view, too, though. They could be thinking, "If he's interested, he'll show me." And then you don't text. So you're both stuck playing a game of dating chicken and nobody wins.
Plenty of people feel like not texting/dry texting= not interested so you’re kinda messing up thinking that’s enough my friend maybe explain though cuz I agree with ya if you over text what will y’all even talk about on the first date but they may not feel that way
Right and along those same lines I don't know if I want to go from zero to a hundred with these girls. If they need my time and attention 24/7, well, I just don't have that to give to them at this stage. Once I've gone out with them and built a little rapport? Yeah, I will give them more attention.
But you asked them out without even getting to know them which probably made them feel disposable. I would have no qualms canceling a date made on such a basis.
Perhaps I'm not understanding the online dating world then. Cause when I ask someone out in person, the interaction could be very brief, they don't know me and I don't know them, but they're somehow more keen to go out.
But your whole post here is talking about how flaky people are. Maybe they've encountered the same? And by not being more proactive, they're assuming you're not invested and they'd rather just save themselves the trouble.
Not saying this is all on you - they have a responsibility to put a foot forward as well. But if you're both playing chicken, you both lose, so someone's gotta break the pattern. And the only thing you can control is your own behavior.
As a woman, I’ve found it strange to not text at least sporadically before the date. It gives you time to learn more about the person, so it sets you up with more info to ask questions on. For example, they text you about a bad customer experience (if they work customer service). You could then ask in person about their worst/favorite customer interactions or something. My current bf and I sporadically texted the week before our date, and it gave us more to talk about in person
I just wanted to point out how insane this sub is. You have said nothing wrong here, but you're being downvoted as if you made some kind of toxic remark. If people have feedback for your comment, by all means, give feedback, but downvotes?! I don't think that's necessary or kind.
You met a few women and asked them out on a date—on a dating app. They said yes, then flaked. You have a right to have questions.
The downvotes on your very innocuous comment are a reflection of why actually meeting someone is so unnecessarily difficult.
And also evidence that less is more. Saying too much opens up too many opportunities for people to disqualify a person, which is the case with my down voted comment. Who knows 🤷♂️ haha I keep my head held high!
Of course there’s a need to keep chatting, all you need to do is ask how their day is, or ask if they’re up for a phone call. Your silence is putting out lack of confidence and/or lack of interest. Both of those create a lackluster vibe
Try “was just thinking about you, wondering how your day was”. A little bit of care and interest establishes the vibe that’s necessary for a real connection
To be fair, if I was excited or intrigued by a guy, I’d met with him even if he was not sending a lot of messages
My guy, what’s your job? 🤣
I’m a female in sales. I meet strangers all.the.time. I set up coffee meetings, presentations and go to networking events. You might totally suck at conversing and I can make you feel good at it. I’d rather meet sooner than later, as well.
And I don’t want to do dinner. If I’m not into you, a 60 min meal sounds painful, and is. I’m all about coffee, ice cream or stroll. First date is audition.
BUT IT TAKES ALL KINDS. I’m not for everyone.
>there's really no need to keep chatting via text in my opinion. I'll end up asking them those same questions in person, if I don't screw up and say something dumb before I even get that far, that is.
I can't say that I've found a great correlation between communicating a lot before the date, but your view seems a little fatalistic and shallow. If you are worried that your next 10 questions are your last 10 questions, you might want to reconsider the date. (I've screwed up more because of my zodiac sign than anything else I've said. More girls than know have screwed up by asking my zodiac sign.)
>but then why agree to the date in the first place? Instead of simply stating
They were filling their week's back up plans. Something better came along so they cancelled.
I suspect your problem is the approach your taking in the conversations leading up to the date. As others have said, they agree hoping they feel inspired and by the last minute realize they're not.
Based on women's posts here, if you manage to go 3 days and not talk about sex or gender politics, you're ahead of the game. So I would suggest working on your in-app communication and reconsider what you proposed doing on those dates. Is it just coffee? Just drinks? A dinner at a place that might be "too much?" Is it an activity that they're maybe not *that* into?
Ask some of your female friends to check some of your message threads for help.
I actually do show my lady friends the messages I send and they're saying it's perfect, and that they would agree to go out. I understand that it's hard to know without seeing the messages, but rest assured that they aren't creepy, needy, pushy, or anything of that nature.
I usually set up for some drinks at first. If we're vibing, we may grab some food or move to another venue. If we're still vibing I'll move onto doing some physical activity at another venue like a Dave n Busters for example. I've had good success with this, when I do get a date to meet up.
Your strategy is fine keep pushing. Most of the women are on there for attention and dopamine. 70% of women on dating apps never have and never will meet with ANYONE. just keep grinding till you find the ones that are actually interested in meeting, like the one you met up with and she came home with you after. Most of the skill involved with online dating is learning how to weed out the flakes and time wasters.
I think with some minor adjustments I could do a lot better. Like incorporating a video chat. I could see the benefit in that early on. This post was meant as more of a rant than anything, but I did end up getting some great advice out of it as well. Thank you.
I have been reading all your responses and you come off as a well-mannered and a good guy, and I’m sure you’ll eventually find someone you vibe well with. It just has not happened yet. I know dating can be brutal and there are so many flakes out there (men and women alike). You’ll get there.
I feel like maybe you dont need to keep chatting about things you would ask on a date, but maybe a "hey, hope you had a lovely day today" or a "how was your day" and it allows you to maintain rapport but you dont have to go into 1st date depth conversation.
You're really thinking like a robot there, try to think more like a human, and build a connection and do small talk. And a woman is not a chat gpt prompt that will give you a precise robotic answer to your questions.
So I like to get to a date quickly, but not 3-5 messages quickly, and without being funny my time is valuable to me, I work full time, I have multiple hobbies and other friends, you're asking me to give up an evening or an afternoon but aren't willing to spend half an hour chatting first to check we do actually seem to get on before committing that time?
I don't want to spend hours over several weeks chatting to someone before getting to meet them as I find it can give a false impression, but half a dozen messages, confirm a date then silence suggests to me there just isn't good conversation to be had here or you're just looking for hookups and juggling multiple women.
I’ll tell guys who ask me up front that I prefer getting to know someone better before I agree to go on an in person date but the thing that drives me CRAZY is them setting a date then having no conversation in between. If we don’t have something we can talk about over text consistently, then how are we going to survive a multi-hour date? Just stare at each other? lol
If you’re not trying to get to know me and ask questions, then I assume your date request is disingenuous. You’re just looking to fill your social calendar. And I’m saying this as an exhausted female who starts convos and tries to keep them going 97% of the time.
I am a busy guy as well with a demanding full time job, and I have hobbies and play sports as well. It's a mutual agreement, I don't think of it as giving up an evening to meet a stranger. That's a very negative way to look at it, and if that's where your head is prior to meeting up, then you should ask yourself if you're ready for dating.
I send these messages over the course of sometimes days, as I don't have the time to sit there for 30+ minutes chatting throughout the day. If I did, I'm worried that I'd give off the vibe that I have nothing going on and too much spare time. That's not a good look, for anybody.
You and I are obviously different, and that's not necessarily a bad thing, and I'm sure you would be up front in telling a guy that "I don't want to set up a date before we get to know each other a little better", right? But once you've set the date, why continue the conversation? It'll lose it's flare, you'll end up asking the same questions and finding out the same details on the date, except adding in the possibility of a message being taken the wrong way and losing the date altogether. I'm not sure how that can be perceived as juggling multiple women, because I could be juggling multiple women and keep chatting with them as well, like you have suggested.
This is the problem. Setting a date after a brief exchange of messages and no further conversation isn’t appealing to some. People with whom I match well we don’t tend to run out of things to talk about so that has always struck me as an odd concern some have. I can chat while I go about my day. And if we are in a relationship I would expect some chatting throughout the day. So perhaps it’s simply incompatibility with these matches. Not saying your approach is wrong just have to find the people whose approach is similar.
I am more like you than like other people, and am a man, but I have found that these days, no matter what someone's style is, women want reassurance and confirmation, between the time the plans are made, and when you are to meet them, that they still matter to you, and that you are going to show up. Because one thing that women don't tolerate won't risk, and seem less able to stand than men, is being stood up. It happens all the time to men, but rarely to women, on dating sites, simply because they will almost always beat men to the punch on the game of standing someone up for a first meeting..
Standing someone up is heinous behavior. While I have genuine concern for my safety and screen quite rigorously prior to meeting a man from a dating app I can say I have never told someone I would meet them then not show up. I have had a change of heart and expressed that prior to our scheduled meeting time. Even that is unusual for me. I suss people out within a day or two of chatting.
Agreed, and even as a man, I refuse to accept the bullshit excuse or justification of personal safety, that so many women are glad to use, for defending themselves against justified criticism for standing men up for coffee meetings, etc.. I have been stood up ten times in the six years of OLD I have done since becoming widowed, and while that doesn't seem like a big number, and I have grown used to it, I assure you that if most women had to endure that sort of experience that often, they would be angrily bashing all men on reddit or other social discussion sites, since they have even less tolerance for it than men. Which is why it rarely happens to them, since they are more risk averse than men, and so they are usually great at reading situations where the man is likely to stand them up, and they beat them to the punch, by cancelling first, or not showing up themselves. If you are worried about your safety, all you need to do, is guard your safety in advance, by not giving your full name or phone number to the other person before the first meeting, same with your address, your workplace, etc., and use common sense. If you think the man is not safe, then all you need to do, is send him a message saying you changed your mind about moving forward with him, and are cancelling, and at least have the courtesy to so it with a couple hours notice or more, since I always check for messages from women, before I leave for the first meeting. Then, after he has time to read your message, or after the meeting time has passed, feel free to block him, but not before he has been able to see your cancellation message..
So here’s the thing- you’re getting the answer here and in other replies- your approach feels like minimal effort to the ladies and like you’re not really interested and are talking to lots of women and mostly looking to hook up.
I get that you don’t see how it could be perceived that way, or that this is how it should work, or that you want to spend a ton of time texting when you’re busy.
All of those are reasonable arguments. However, at the end of the day, you’re not getting the outcome you want and you’re being told why. Arguing about how it should work in this circumstance is futile- you can either adjust your approach or continue to do what you’re doing and hope that the lady you’re looking for appreciates it.
To be clear- I’m not saying you’re wrong. I’m saying it doesn’t matter if you’re right.
>But once you've set the date, why continue the conversation? It'll lose it's flare, you'll end up asking the same questions and finding out the same details on the date
To show that you're interested beyond getting a date. If you're worried you'll run out of topics, you're setting up dates with wrong people.
Frankly I don't get it why women are accepting after 3-5 messages, I guess they hope to build more of a rapport with you until the date and they're getting cold feet when that isn't happening.
Are you talking to women <25? Maybe that's why they don't know how to advocate for themselves.
As a side remark, you might come off as a Corey Wayne follower to those who know his teachings.
I'm sticking within the 25-35 age range. I'm 32 myself. If they really wanted to keep chatting then they could make the effort, right? I just assume that they have dozens of guys all doing the same thing, peppering them with conversation and compliments, which I'm sure they get tired of. For me, I send a few messages to gauge her interest, and if she bites for setting up a date then I'll go for it. They all seem very interested at the time, I can at least tell that much.
Also, what's wrong with corey wayne?
Lol. We want guys to keep the conversation so we’d know he’s interested. Girls want to be courted. The way you just sent want to set the date and not continue with the conversation would make us feel like you just want to hook up. So it’s a no for me.
The courtship happens in person. Body language and tonality are crucial parts in building attraction, both of which are missing in online interactions. I see your point though, I just don't know if that's for me. Perhaps this method does weed out the needy ones who require attention and reassurance, both of which I'm not into. Thanks for your feedback.
Hence why you need to be more communicative, OP. Please don’t dismiss it as being needy when they just want to know if you’re really their match. Once you matched, you are already in the talking stage. Will definitely unmatch someone who won’t talk to me. Plus stop collecting dates and compare them later? That’s off.
Bro 4 dates canceled on you obviously your approach isn’t working. People are giving you free advice, at least try it out before saying it doesn’t work. I had the same problem, now I text a bit more and voila, haven’t had a date cancel on me in years
I'm not just sitting here saying oh no that won't work, I'm saying those things because I've been there and tried it. I've had lengthy conversations that turned out great, but I've had more that turned out.. Well.. Not at all.
When I say less before asking for a meet up, my results were far better. That's why I'm sticking to my method for the most part. I do agree with some of the advice that has been given to me on here, so I'm not just dismissing everything that comes my way. I'm going to make adjustments, just not extreme adjustments. Simple ones, like asking for a video chat date prior to an in person date might be the key that changes my outcomes.
That's crazy to get four flakes in a row. But sounds like you don't build enough familiarity / comfort before setting up the dates which leads to this. I usually go with 10-15 messages back and forth on the app before getting the number, then a couple more back and forth via text. Some people do facetime too but that's not my thing.
It's definitely a sign, and I've received some good feedback here. I'm going to make a few adjustments and see how it works out. Thanks for the feedback
At least you get matches with people you want to go out with. That puts you ahead of 90% of men.
The only matches I get are really enormous girls I absently swiped right on before noticing that they only had pictures from the shoulders up.
You just need to message them more/longer. I think you’ll be fine.
OP- it’s your approach.
There is nothing necessarily wrong with asking them out quickly. And if they agree, they’re obviously attracted to you and excited.
Then, instead of using that momentum to build up the anticipation, you simply let it fizzle away. This is where you miss the mark.
I know you said you’re anxious about possibly saying something off-putting in the interim but if that’s the case and this woman can’t take a joke or a little banter then there are plenty more out there that will.
It’s crazy to me that people think they’ll run out of things to talk about. People are married for 50+ years and never run out but you think texting in between will make it so the first date will have no exchanges? Come on.
Women generally need a mental and emotional connection to be excited about a date. And if she’s just the average woman, she gets 50 likes a day. There is definitely another guy willing to make her comfortable and special along the way.
You have already made it 98% percent of the way. Then when it’s time to be clutch…air ball.
That’s your problem. Keep them enticed until game day.
I have 2 main feelings when I've arranged a first date. Excited and nervous.
The excited bit makes me want to go, the nervous bit makes it all feel like too much effort. If I've clicked with someone beforehand it makes me more excited I am to meet them and the less likely I am to bail.
I think after so few messages there probably is much less incentive for the women you match with to push through the nervousness and effort it takes to go on a first date.
Maybe because you had 4 dates for 4 days in a row? Maybe it feels like you care more about quantity over quality?
Maybe they don’t feel comfortable with exchanging 3-4 messages and going on a date because they dont even know if there is anything other than a superficial connection involved.
Maybe they had 4 different dates in 4 days and you just didn’t happen to make the cut because you were the fourth.
Maybe you did some weird shit or sent some awkward vibes that made them all cancel.
We don’t know. We will never know.
Maybe do some self reflection because you are the only one with all the info about your behavior. We only get the pieces you’re telling us.
3-5 messages is too few to set up a date, I would think you’re too desperate, it’s more dangerous and risky for women to meet with online strangers, not even to mention the time they spent for getting ready. Talk 3-5 days to meet is the sweet point, imho.
I've gone both routes in the past and the ones I chat with more initially end up fizzling out, if not ghosting moreso than the ones I chat less with. And it feels worse at the end of the day knowing I just got used for some quick validation at my expense. I'd much rather have low investment and meet up to have that quality time with someone than to have high investment and never meet them. Chatting for too long online, in my opinion, presents more opportunities for a text to be misconstrued and ultimately earning myself the ick title.
Women have more mental burden to meet with an online stranger, it’s not like an interview, you need to meet as many as possible. You gotta find the one that’s truly interested in you. If none, just wait until it happens, there’s really no strategy for it, you cannot force love.
And this is exactly why I think as a man you exert the energy only to those who will meet with you quickly. Those who want to chat for a while usually, not always, end up being a catfish, looking for validation only, or eventually someone else comes along that they think is a better fit for them. It’s a waste of time and energy to go through that process as a man. Better to act quickly and be disappointed quickly. You might miss the opportunity to find someone but you’ll save yourself a lot of mental anguish.
100% disagree unless you are under 25. Most of the women I’ve dated went out with me after I invited them out after 3-5 messages. Most of the women who request we talk for a while first just play games.
I'm sorry that's your experience. As a woman I prefer to talk first to find out if there are any compatibility issues before wasting both our time going on a date. For me it's a lot more effort just going for a drink, for a lot of reasons, and I can find out pretty quickly if we're not compatible, just not 5 messages quick. 2-5 days is all it takes for me.
If i feel we're compatible I use those days to find out more about each other so we have more to talk about on a date.
There is nothing to feel sorry about it because it is most men’s experience. I appreciate that there are women who might want to talk a little more. Regardless, I’m still going to ask you out quickly. If you simply respond that you would prefer to talk a little more before we go out, I’m going to be fine with it but now I’ve put the ball in your court and you can let me know when you are comfortable to go out. I just believe this is a much smarter process for men to use to find out who is serious about getting to know them and who is wasting their time.
I'm over 40F. I don't agree to dates until I speak with them for a while, and video chat to make sure neither sides are catfishing. Never been ghosted nor flaked on, and vice versa. I'm actually looking for something real, maybe it's easier for me as a woman, I understand that too. But I'm not wasting my time going on random dates. I have to like you, then invest in getting to know you, then go on dates. And I've gone on coffee dates, drink dates, but mostly have been dinner dates, even entire weekend dates because they flew out to see me. Depends on your intention in dating I suppose. But I'm not wasting my time because of the cliché "we won't know until we meet." I trust my judgment that I can get a feel of what someone is about even in the stage of chatting.
Errr depending on what type of girl you’re matching with, if they’re that easy to ask out, either they are very low maintenance or they don’t have a busy life, or both.
As a woman I had the same experience last year. I had no idea why. I still don't. I think it's just a coincidence that some people will flake on you and others won't
This year I've had a couple dates and one drove 2 hours just to see me. Wild. Some people will drop you with 15 minutes notice and some will travel hours on their day off just for a drink. It's not always something that is because of your behaviour.
A lot of people are saying you didn't message enough and that's a fair point but these women still agreed to date you despite that. My response when it's too soon is "I prefer to get to know you a bit more before meeting up". I don't date guys I just said some small talk too and wouldn't agree to meet them just to cancel. That isn't something for you to change if it's working for you, it's down to women to make their boundaries clear if they don't feel comfortable, so you can assume they were comfortable when they agreed to the date and just decided they weren't interested anymore.
Appreciate your feedback and I agree as well. If they're agreeing to the dates then that's an obvious indicator to me that I'm doing enough to get them to that stage. I'm not one to keep messaging after setting the date and give myself a chance to talk them out of it, and neither are they continuing the conversation either. To me, this is normal. This is how I'd do it with someone I met in person.
Perhaps I did just have a bad run-in with a few flakes there and I need to just keep chugging along. Frightening how many up votes the comments are getting stating that I'm not chatting enough, though. Can leave you second guessing yourself.
There is a reason those comments are getting upvotes… as a woman in the age range you can date I can very confidently say that if I set a date with someone and then they stopped talking I would assume they lost interest. Especially if there was no attempt to connect in a significant way the day before. You need to give some reassurance that you are invested in the date otherwise why would they be?
By setting the day, place, and time. The goal of online dating is to get them in person and off the apps, no? I just don't see a point in chatting any more than what is necessary to get them to agree to the date.
Now let's flip the script. Why don't they continue the conversation if it's what they want? When the messages end with a "great! See you then! ☺️" Why would I then be like "sooooooo what are you up to?" Like come on. If they wanted to keep chatting, they can. I will respond. But they don't keep chatting, so why is it on me to initiate, set the date, and then keep on chatting? That screams needy in my opinion.
It’s not needy. It’s showing interest in the other person. If that’s not your style fine but know that there are many women, and men, that prefer to communicate more prior to actually meeting up.
Ok, do what works for you. But I know which guys are getting dates because I know women who use the apps and it’s the ones that make an effort to seem approachable. It could be as simple as sharing a picture of a cute dog you met or something neat you saw and sharing it and asking about their day the day before. It shows you are thinking of them and gives an easy convo starter for the date. Like oh how was your walk/that restaurant/whatever?
From the responses I’ve read you don’t seem very open to feedback. You seem to want to die on this hill which is fine but don’t be surprised when this happens to you.
Yeah, I get that it’s shitty to be cancelled on. That’s not nice on the part of the women so I’m not making excuses for them.
However, fella, as a hetero woman myself I’d 1) be freaked out by someone asking me out after 5 messages 2) be freaked out by someone asking me out and then not speaking to me until the day of. Ease up a bit.
There’s probably a lot more competition than you think. I signed up 4 days ago and have 6000 likes to wade through. You need to stand out in some way so it’s not different face, same conversation.
From a girls perspective, sometimes you just aren’t in the right headspace to go on the date and cancel last minute or we find someone we feel a stronger online connection with and choose that avenue.
Similar. Me 40sF.
3 dates this weekend.
1 no show/w lame excuse
1 showed up and we have a second date
1 showed up and I didn’t feel it.
Meeting IRL is SO important. I would’ve kept chatting with the number three guy and then met in real life and…. Blah. Better to know before you’re investing too much time IMO.
I think there’s a really fine balance with getting a few chats with the person, then setting up a time to meet. People can go from fine to creepy in 4 exchanges! Someone pointed that out, and I have found it to be true. I was shocked to lear this week that even though I confirmed the date ahead of time, I *should have* confirmed it again like an hour before. Live & learn! Silly me feeling responsible.
It comes with the territory. Women get cold feet. I always did a quick video chat in the initial stages to make a more human connection. Then voice call or voice message before the first meet up. Relying only on texting makes it very inpersonal.
Well, no not really. I've had other successful meet ups without the phone/video chat so I never thought it was necessary. What I'm realizing now is the impact that doing a video chat may have on a prospective date.
I actually did do a video chat one time with a girl, and she was the most vile person on the planet who was just looking for someone to argue with I think. Dodged that bullet.
I think that video chat experience turned me off of the idea, but now that I think about it, it saved my ass from a complete bitch. I'm going to start doing that.
What exactly is "a successful meet-up?" (Yes, I'm being serious.)
Either way, it's good to speak over the phone call or video-chat to see if meeting in person even makes sense. Your one time video chat is a perfect example of why it's a good thing to do. Imagine if you experienced that in person. Imagine if you experienced that in person... 4 dates in a row!
Remember, it's not just about her and her time. It's about you and yours.
You're right, I agree with you. It's a tool to weed them out just as much as it is for them.
A successful meet up to me would be someone who actually follows through and meets up for the date. Sometimes it turns into a successful date, sometimes it doesn't. I think we both know what a successful date is 😬
I understand and please don't take this the wrong way, but... A woman agreeing to meet AFTER some conversation and establishing a connection etc. isn't a "success" per-say. It's supposed to happen.
Tbh I’m a little nervous when a guy asks me out quickly, but I agree the voice chat / video call would maybe work for your goals and any nervous girls out there : ) good luck!! Sorry ppl ghosted you : (
One counter to getting ghosted by women on first dates: If you set up a date with a woman through text only, ask if she'd like to talk on the phone before the date. If she's interested in you and comfortable, she won't want to and likely won't ghost. If she's interested in you but not yet comfortable, she'll be open to talking first and likely won't ghost after the call
I'd say the 3-5 messages is very lacking and they simply lost interest in you. I try to chat for at least a couple days just to get to know the basics. Not sure how to accomplish that with 3-5 messages... Specifically when half the chicks are too lazy to add words to their profile.
Yuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuup, lot of flakes on dating apps. It sucks to have someone interesting lined up and then lose their match out of nowhere or suddenly fight for your life to communicate with them.
Congratulations! I'm so happy for yo- oh shit, yeah, it do be like that.. but seriously, I've seen this kinda post a dozen times, and I'd literally be sitting there all dressed up staring at my phone like "why did this happen to meeee"
Your approach seems to be quantity over quality. You’re playing the numbers game, and it’s not working out for you. I challenge you to focus on one person at a time for a couple of weeks and see what happens. I’m not saying wait two weeks to meet, just put in the effort to get to know someone. Maybe a week to FaceTime, build a connection, then go out. If you’re asking for a date after 3-5 messages without having established a connection, what you’re saying is that you’re interested in this person on a very surface level, and I think most women can kinda see through that. It feels forced and insincere.
People can pick up on the lack of focussed energy when you're juggling multiple people, especially if they've been OLD for a while. Simply put, if you weren't totally reaching for people who were reaching for someone else (likely), you made them dip by neglecting to give any energy to them individually.
Every guy I've met up with has kept the conversation going and my brain engaged before our first date, which made the first dates feel far more natural and comfortable because we already had rapport. They've also all been pretty quick to set up first dates (within the first week of matching), but not 3-5 messages quick. That's wild to me.
If we'd only had 3-5 messages, the guy had pushed for a date and then went silent on me, I'd presume they weren't actually interested. I wouldn't cancel day-of, but as someone who deeply values communication, if someone were to go dark on me after setting up a date I wouldn't be interested in meeting.
We don't like feeling rushed into meeting up and you've openly said you're not interested in investing the time to chat with someone if you're not getting a date out of it but friend, that's the nature of the beast. We ALL chat to plenty of people with whom we don't end up having enough rapport or commonality to go on an actual date.
Like it or not OLD is a woman's market so for every woman you're not willing to put the effort into chatting with for more than 3-5 messages, there are typically plenty\* of dudes willing to play a longer game. They're the ones getting dates that actually happen.
So yes, you need to adjust your strategy.
\*in most cases. Obviously there are women who don't get that much action on the apps, but as a general rule this is true.
I see merit in your post, absolutely. I guess it may have not occurred to me that they need a little more back and forth to feel more comfortable before meeting up. To me, it's wild that someone wants to chat a bunch to someone that they haven't even met in person, but I can understand why they might want it. How do these women meet people IRL if they need so much interaction and reassurance? Perhaps they don't. I don't know any more. I think it's time for a break lol
Advise that if anyone cancels, to got to go anyway. You can mention it will be just as fun if not more.
Only plan an activity somewhere or something YOU want to do. Unless you do this online, dating is not good for morale.
When out that evening, approach any group of women and hand over your phone and ask if they can look at your profile. Don't be self-depregating or have any shame.
Will be refreshing that you get out and they’ll treat you as a human,
I definitely prefer to meet early on. There’s nothing worse than forming a connection chatting for it to fizzle in person. Plus, I’m not looking for a pen pal, but 2-3 days of constant messaging is enough for me to want to meet them. However only 3-5 messages wouldn’t be enough for me to determine if we have the same interests.
It’s just the reality of OLD. Women have lots of options, and can cancel whenever they feel like it with no noticeable loss of options. Something better comes up? Cancel. Weather isn’t perfect? Cancel. Don’t feel in the mood? Cancel.
I agree with you that it doesn’t really make sense to keep talking once you’ve set up a date. For the same reasons you said. It doesn’t really improve the success rate, and plenty of options to screw up and blow it.
But that’s what women want. Women want as many chances to weed you out as possible. They’re always looking for a reason to put you in the pass pile.
This isn’t a great Reddit channel for dating advice. The Bumble app and the Bumble Reddit skew towards the exact type of women you probably want to avoid.
For me, I unmatched with men that asked me out too soon. I also lost interest in men that carried on randomly chit chatting for days, even weeks. The sweet spot was someone I spoke to for hours the first time (he didn’t the send the sporadic 2 texts in a week, it was back to back replies) and found out that we had a lot in common and our values aligned. we arranged to meet later that week and are still going strong.
The problem you have, which is the same problem that every man has on the apps, and this one in particular, is that you do not realize how much competition you have. Women are flooded with attention. Between setting up a date and the day actually come in up, they would have carried on being courted by other men, some maybe better to them than you. It's not something you did, it's what happens when there are too many of you relatively to the number of women on the same network. (I am not condoning that behavior, just putting it into perceptive for you)
Yup, that could be a reason and I would totally agree with you. I've had women cancel only to reach out a couple of days later wanting to reschedule. I have to fight the temptation to say "what, realized the other dude ain't shit?" Lol.
It's a tough game with the online dating. Sometimes I feel the push to drop the apps altogether and never look back.
You know, I dont personally ever recall that happening but I really filtered people out with my profile because I made it plain that I was not interested in talking to people who used the apps for validation, who were closed off or who were not prepared to talk on the phone or vidchat after introductions were exchanged.
I found that really worked, but I received very few matches after I set those boundaries and I left online dating shortly thereafter.
My generation grew up without the internet and really should be able to cope with chatting to a person over the phone so if they insist on hiding behind it I am immediately out.
> I found that really worked, but I received very few matches after I set those boundaries and I left online dating shortly thereafter.
Curiosity has gotten the best of me and I can't tell if you left OLD because it worked you found a suitable match or you left because you didn't.
I question if it "really worked" or if you only succeeded in driving off potential matches.
I'm sure the negative tone put a lot of people off, probably would have put me off, but to be honest I dont mind. I'm an old guy, married twice, two kids, never really struggled to have a girlfriend because I'm not shy and I have a good sense of humour. So its cost me nothing, just a few more spins at the casino where you probably dont get a prize and you might not like your prize and worst case your prize will turn out to have comorbid NPD with bipolar and destroy your life lol.
I'm good thanks 😂
You bring up a good point here. Perhaps by explicitly stating something akin to what you've stated will work out in my favor. Shows that I'm not here to waste time or have my time wasted. If it results in fewer matches, that's fine with me, so long as the matches are of better quality.
Do you think that the validation seekers would go so far as to actually agree to meet up, though? Or do they disappear long before that? I'm trying to figure out if the women who canceled on me were actually willing to meet or they just used the idea of having a date to feel wanted.
For the most part they probably were not, although it depends on the age group you are dating. The older the age group the more of this kind of thing goes on. I would go so far as to say there is a kind of mutually parasitic dynamic between older women and low status men. The women aquire so many of these dudes, swap them out etc and they have 5 or 50 guys paying them compliments every day. Similarly, the dudes have so many closed off women they pay compliments to every day in the hope that their strategy will pay off at some point. The worst site for this is definitely Badoo in my country but I think that goes on a lot to be honest. There's a lot of desperate people, you know? When you hit your 50's and you are on your own the walls start to close in on a lot of people.
I was fairly successful on Tinder until I got turned off by the whole scene and started trolling on my profile. I ended up being banned for really almost nothing but I think my profile was flagged by so many people over a period of time that the admin just had enough in the end. I deleted them all and now I feel like someone shower fresh again and just looking for someone in the real world.
I feel ya. I'm talking to women around the 25-35 age range, I am 32 myself. I just have too much going for me in my life and not enough time to sit around and pepper these women with compliments and validation, so it's unfortunate that they are gravitating towards those behaviors, but I do understand why they are doing it.
It can be just a bit confusing when the people in my life are telling me that I'm a catch and shouldn't have any problem finding someone, yet these are the results I'm getting.
Yeah its a little counter-intuitive. I have met quite a few women, mostly on Tinder and they were a mixed bag, no real catfish though, and they were mostly nice people, no one is perfect lol, and some of them I saw more than once and a few of them obviously wanted to begin a relationship but generally the nicer they were the worse they looked. There's some kind of equation surely where the better looking the prospective date, the more likely its a situational problem or they have a personality disorder or something because the better they look generally the more messed up they are as people. Then you get the poor judgement crowd of 40+ women who decide to get their neck tatted ffs. That's another Badoo special 😂 What are they thinking....
My perspective- the online dates I’ve been excited about, and the 3 that led to meaningful, long term connections, involved at least 1-2 weeks of texting and buildup prior to us meeting in person. None of those involved setting a date and then not talking anymore. If you have chemistry with someone, that should start to be apparent even over text in the early stages.
It’s probably the case for both of you that this is just some going through the motions thing. There is nothing to be excited about because you haven’t really interacted beyond matching. You know nothing about each other. So in her mind, whether or not you all go on the date doesn’t matter. You’re no different from the endless number of men she doesn’t know on the app who could also potentially ask her out. You’re just a question mark at this point.
Not condoning the flaking, it’s still rude. But that might be the thought process.
I think with all of this it's best to try your hardest to keep your head held high and not let it get to you. Easier said than done, I know, but we can take it. We're strong!
Since *all* 4 women canceled, you should be concerned if there is any negative information about you online/ Facebook groups where women discuss red flags/bad dates with men. If one or two women canceled, we can assume maybe anxiety took over or maybe they aren’t actually single; but since all 4 canceled, that is cause for concern.
I'm terrified about those groups because I dated a vengeful bitch who is totally the type of person to put me on there with a bunch of made up bad shit just to ruin my chances at dating.
While those groups are great for making people aware of *legit* predators, cheaters, and overall horrible people, the dark side of them is that people will misuse those groups to make someone else’s life hell who doesn’t deserve it.
I’ve been setting up dates for three weeks and my stats are 5 canceled, 3 gone on. But 5 canceled seems wild! I’m a woman, so I guess my impression is that men are flaky. But yeah, I get a little mad because I have limited time, if I’ve gotten ready or arranged my day around it and you cancel at the last minute it’s UGH
When I had a date set up to meet, in the interim days if it was a few days, I played a question game with them. What’s your favorite ice cream? What’s your favorite vacation spot? Lefty or righty? Stuff like that just to keep the connection open but not a serious conversation.
They probably frequent "girl groups" on social media that are area bound and found out you lined up their dates.
I'd say you got the same commitment you gave. Which is to say none 🤷
I committed to a day, time, and place. I don't really know what else I can do or say to show my commitment to someone I don't know beyond that.
Perhaps they did communicate on a girl group but on that same note I feel like I wasn't that impactful to warrant a post. If the date went bad and I was a freak and they posted about it, that's a different story.
Sorry but 3-5 messages before setting the date? Man you have to build the momentum and show that you’re interested. I won’t meet a guy I just met without knowing who he is as he might be a dangerous person.
I see little risk in meeting someone out in a public place. If I were to invite them straight over to my house, yeah okay I could see the concern there.
I only go on dates with people I've sent about twenty messages or so.
Need to know if they can hold a conversation online - their job, interests, what they do in their free time, their humor, their dating ideals - if I think we are compatible, I ask them out.
If i knew nothing about them then I would never waste 4 hours of my evening with some rando
Chances are they look different in person than their pics and they chicken out. #2 a lot of women are on the app for validation and actually never interested in meeting to begin with, weird but true.
I (F24) usually prefer to have at least 1 call before meeting. More than 3-5 messages doesn’t make you a pen pal. Me personally I prefer a little bit more than 3-5 messages plus a call so I can feel comfortable enough to meet up IRL. I’m also constantly updating my pictures to the most recents that way I’m confident they won’t feel catfish.
Women are quite good @ being able to read your investment & we males think we have a “strong gut instinct” woman have like tripple a males. I’m not saying it’s why they cancelled on u.
But they do have a very strong gut instinct 🤷🏼♂️
So for me, continuing to chat with them before scheduling dates is what *made sure* I didn't get the same end result as you. I know it's the game plan for like 90% of men, but my recommendation is to actually get to know them a little before trying to set something up. You can save a ton of time and annoyance by weeding through them before that type of situation happens.
Rushing into dates without really "vetting" them to some extent is just bonkers to me. You're putting no real effort in, and as a result you're getting no effort back. Seems obvious to me.
If you can't put in the little bit of extra time, then I guess keep doing what you're doing, but then you also shouldn't complain about your poor results.
I feel the opposite. The date isn’t the end goal the date is the beginning of any meaningful communication or chemistry at least to me. Once I had someone bail mid date unfortunately. It was a food truck event and she went to get in line supposedly and just left and blocked me. I messaged someone else on bubble that I had just matched with (didn’t talk to at all beforehand) asked her if she wanted to come downtown, she came before I even finished my food from the other person so it’s definitely a thing that people will meet right away if they think the person on the other end is a catch as long as they feel safe and comfortable of course.
I know it can happen, and can work, and does. But it also can fail miserably, like in the OP's case. I think we all know the saying about doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Sometimes you gotta try something different.
The only thing I can suggest is try different approaches. As a woman, before deleted the apps almost a couple of years, I had 7 dates scheduled in the last 2 weeks. Only 3 made it. Additionally, first dates rarely moved to second dates.
Once I got back on the apps, I decided to only go on dates the guy organizes. When I guy organizes a date, they appear more invested. I rarely have dates canceled and they frequently go onto multiple dates too.
There has also been posts on here where guys have mentioned they have had great results organizing dates.
Its because you cant be trusted, none of us can.
Were seen as liabilities.
Why take the chance, when you can stay safe.
Ive recently created a new account and have had much more luck with matching however ive started every single match with conversation, said hello and was nice. Either unmatched with no reply, or just no replies in general.
I think we can just pack it up at this point.
This may sound out there as a suggestion to these women and the men that do it too, if there are any but , and just hear me out. Put on your big girl/ big boy pants and if the person you’re talking to asks you out, and for whatever reason you feel, just Effing Say “No” “ No ,thank you”. And state your reasons or don’t but saying “yes”, then canceling because realized later it made you a certain way, makes you a douche.
Like I stated on here before I’ve had 12 girls cancel on me since February for various reasons. “Busy, forgot, ghosted, double booked, yadda yadda yadda. I’’d have much more respect for the woman that says “you know what, its a bit too soon for me. Let’s see how we go in a few weeks.”
This “Yes and then Dip” is just a shitty thing to do.
at most 3-5 messages?
i think you should text with them for at least 1-2 days before setting the date
if they make it that far, this will limit the possibility of flaking
Well I don't make bumble my priority as I go through my day so I message when I get free time and feel like responding. Sometimes these messages are spread over the course of 2-3 days.
You are pursuing the 100% correct strategy for a man on OLD -- playing the numbers. Keep doing it. 95% of women on these apps are a colossal waste of time. Women who need to "build a connection" on the messenger, women who flake, women who just want validation -- you just have to plow through them and not get caught up in the rejection.
My best dates were with women who agreed to meet after a few messages and willingly exchanged phone numbers. That's what you're looking for. It's totally okay for a woman to feel uncomfortable meeting a stranger, but don't waste your time on them. OLD isn't for them.
Keep lining up dates and backup dates. It's like sales. You have to keep filling the prospect funnel to filter out the tire-kickers.
Thanks for the encouragement and reality check. Do you typically wait to exchange numbers after you've met up or go for the number and then video chat and/or set up the date? I've done both with mixed results.
Never schedule a meet without a phone number. Those women who don’t/wont have neurological issues, are time wasters and flakes, or have nefarious agendas. Like the other commenter said (and I’ve met hundreds of women online had thousands of matches so I know how to read the time wasters) the ones that agree to meet after a few messages and willingly give you their number to facilitate logistics are the ones that are actually interested and have little to no flake rate. Everyone else on there is pretty much a waste of time if your interaction doesn’t follow the pattern he outlined.
After a few messages that indicate she's interested, I just ask her out. "Would you be free for a drink on Friday" or something.
The answer needs to be "yes" or "sure" or "okay" or "Friday I can't, but I'm free on \_\_\_\_\_\_" or even a flirty "hmmm maybe :)" If it's *anything* other than these responses, it's a no. Even if it's equivocal like "okay, but I don't want to impose on you if etc. etc." Equivocation = flake. It's either a firm unequivocal "yes, I can meet you on xyz date at xyz location" or she's a waste of time and I move on.
Once she agrees to a date, I give her my number. She should respond in kind. If she doesn't, that's usually not a good sign but I'll give it a shot if she is still willing to meet. In my experience, women who are skittish about giving out their number are going to be skittish about meeting up. They tend to be time-wasters.
Once the date is set, there is no video chat or further conversation in text unless she is initiating it. Rapport and connection are built in person. I want to spend my time on women who are on that page.
Well we both share similar mindsets for this shit and I know it works well for women that I meet in person. I agree with what you're saying, as I have had good results by going about it that way. Better results than any other approach for sure.
3-5 messages isn’t even table stakes. There’s minimal interest and zero investment, so it’s not terribly surprising they’re bailing.
I realize this is like a new trend with OLD but never one I got on board with. If you don’t want to chat and get to know me before I spend the time and energy, and let’s be real 7/10 times money as well…that’s gonna be a no from me dawg.
I don’t have a specific time frame, but if texting/calling goes well, you reach a point where both people WANT to meet each other…and that’s a different vibe than saying yes to meeting a stranger. Those dates don’t get cancelled on.
I'm going to try and incorporate a video chat in there between the texting and the date, as someone else has suggested. I think that may make it a bit more human rather than text on a screen. I definitely see where you're coming from. Thanks for the reply.
It doesn’t matter whether you send 3-5 messages or 35. If they’re interested they will meet. Ignore all the other advice you’re receiving and take it from someone who’s had actual success in the space. You can’t get to know someone through small talk over text and you can’t build attraction that way either. The app is a tool used to meet people and your text interactions should be used to facilitate that as you are currently doing.
If you don’t spend time over text to get to know each other there’s less investment in showing up. I usually text for at least a week before going out on a date and I’ve yet to be stood up. Plus why agree to a date with someone you really don’t know anything about? That, to me, is more of a waste of my time then spending a little time to see if it’s a good enough fit to meet.
Well the second part of your comment is something you'd have to ask the women who bailed after agreeing to meet up. I have no idea why they'd agree to meet up and then flake. 🤷♂️
As far as the first portion of your comment, have you ever spent days/weeks talking to someone and then get ghosted? That hits a bit harder than being canceled on in my book, which is why I don't like that approach. Now I'm all invested in a wall of text and got nothing to show for it. And just to clarify, I have never been stood up on a date. They at least have the decency to cancel 😂 being stood up sounds awful.
I’ve been ghosted but usually early on. I don’t get too invested in a weeklong conversation. Honestly what most often happens is we meet and there’s not enough chemistry or they didn’t represent themselves accurately. Part of texting is to determine if they are flaky. I hear you though, it’s disappointing investing time getting close for it not to work out but I just see that as part of the process.
Back when I was still dating last year I had one date on Wednesday, another on Thursday, a singles party on Saturday, and another date on Sunday.
Every one of the dates was at least 90 miles drive away from me. I was exhausted.
I'm thankful that I live in a city where at most I'll have to travel 20 minutes to meet up. It helps a lot. That does sound very exhausting. Hopefully one of them turned out all right?
Next time arrange with the 5 girls for the same day…then wait and see what happen…if one really confirms cancel the others. Play the game (let the downvotes come my way)
See, I just can't bring myself to do that to people. I'm a man of my word. If I say I'm going to be there, then I'll be there. Canceling really isn't an option to me unless some emergency seriously did come up, which let's be honest, is extremely rare. I definitely have heard of guys doing that, though.
Women do get anxiety before dates and cancel pretty often. I would just have a more casual approach, like "I'm going here. If you'd like to join me, that's fine." Like no pressure to show up. Using this approach, I've had more success.
Do not use this approach, it shows insecurity, fear of rejection, and is very unattractive. Ask them out clearly and with confidence such that you might get rejected.
I think I could see a scenario where it could work out, though. Like making a same-day date. Chat for a bit, "hey me and my friends are going here why don't you meet us out", kind of thing.
Likely you’re setting up the date too far in advance so it isn’t a solid plan, then sending a needy “r we still on for Friday?” Msg, + generally texts being too boring, needy +frequent
That's a lot of assumptions you just made and I'm not sure where you would have picked up on that vibe. Your comment seems a bit trolly but I'll bite. I typically set the date up at their discretion by asking what their availability is looking like in the next few days. They'll give me a day. If it works for me, I set the time and place. I don't send needy or insecure messages, not once not ever. I do not confirm the date. If I say I'm going to be somewhere, I'll Damn well be there. I have integrity and am a man of my word. IF, and that's a big IF I feel like she might flake, I might say something like "hey I'm going to be running late, can we push it back 30 minutes?". This let's me know if she's still on board or not, without sounding needy.
Ok wel try being more fun/DGAF about setting up the date, I say “PS can meet for quick drink on Tues or Thurs, if u promise to behave ..”, used that successfully like 300 times, askin for her availability just sounds a bit like u have nothing else going on
You'd think it'd incite some competition within them, huh? May the best woman win. Ha. If they're sharing messages, there wouldn't really be anything to share. So what if I set up a date with each of them, on separate days, right? There's no problem with that. I don't chat with anyone enough to give them any sort of ammunition to use against me. So I don't think that's it
4 dates? Fishy. You must be a 10, a top 0.001% setting up dates with 5s and 4s, or simply those are fake accounts. I'm a solid 8 in looks. Top 2% financially. Minus for nor being white (nor black, so no niche market either), lookesmaxxed, I get a date a year in the US and a date on every trip abroad (way better abroad). Level of girls abroad: 8 and above. Level in the US: 5, 6, being generous and taking only the US pool, they would be 3,4 in the global league, including the poorest countries and war zones.
I took a break from OLD because I'm not in my absolute 100% so it's a waste of time at this point for me, planning to recover and get to that level to start the playing the game of not scoring a year alone with no intimacy. And no, I'm not the one breaking up, they do, because they have me as an option.
The problem is that it's a closed market. Women collectively lowered their value and men have to take it or leave it. The best we can do to bring a nice girl, crossing fingers she doesn't lower her level, or go enjoy the rest of the world. Or settle with what's left here, which will ditch you after a few dates anyways so, get used to that and learn to love to live alone. Embrace manhood from a different perspective, we are nobody's heroes anymore, until the next war.
Four dates in four years, *my* experience with OLD.
Well if it's any consolation, I never actually went on these dates so. Edit: typo
You have to keep at it. Getting four cancellations is pretty extreme in my experience. The fact you're getting matches and dates means you'll do just fine.
Damn I still haven’t even gotten that far lol
still luckier than me
We’d probably never know the circumstances but one theory - after asking for a date so soon without building any connection these women felt awkward declining so they thought sure why not in the moment but closer to the date there wasn’t actual interest. Do you continue to get to know them after the date is set or just stop texting?
As a woman who’s been in this situation before, it’s quite off putting. I had a guy ask me on a date on the second message in and I agreed to it. He couldn’t meet until the week after, I said I was fine with that. He didn’t really care to get to know me beforehand, I’d ask him a question and he’d ignore it and start talking about how stressful work was, and then he’d keep going on about how excited he was for the date. His profile only had one-word answers for the prompts too so I didn’t have that much to go off. By the time the date rolled around I was feeling unsure about it as I didn’t know what to expect, there was no connection there. I ended up not going and I told him the morning of that I was slightly uncomfortable, he seemed fine about it but we haven’t spoken again.
I don't understand the guys that say. No never text and talk before the date u might ruin it, run out of things to talk about. I'm like if we run out of things to talk about in a few days then it isn't meant to be
I have heard that from women before too and I don't understand at all. Could you imagine running out of anything to say after like 8 messages 😆
I think people that say this are either super boring to begin with or have such bad social anxiety they struggle to carry on a simple conversation. I’m socially awkward myself but if I’m clicking with a person, either romantically or platonically, the conversation just flows. OP doesn’t need to stay in constant contact with his matches, but he needs to put forth some effort.
All the online dating coaches (all women that I’ve seen) say to make the date and then leave it alone until the day of. Otherwise women will get bored. So that’s wisdom me get.
I dated a guy who didn't text or call between our first few dates and honestly figured he wasn't into me. He was shocked when I ended things. Guys, girls, please talk somewhat between dates!
I like to talk between dates but people run the spectrum. I’ve had women who cancelled the first date because I wasn’t texting them good morning and throughout the day (we hadn’t met yet) and I’ve had women who got the ick because I tried texting a few times before we’d met. Everyone brings their own stuff to the table. I’d say the majority of people like a little texting.
Agree. I think matching energies is the most important!
I think those kind of expectations are the kind of thing you should discuss if the date is more than a couple of days off.
It depends on the person. Some people aren’t comfortable without talking while others would rather go on a date first. I’ve had good and bad experiences with both
This is exactly what I was thinking. If you're getting 4 cancellations within a week, there's something else going on. Everyone's different though. Women are not a monolith. You just need to keep trying or take a break from the apps. Cancelling a date on the day of still sucks, of course. Personally, I rarely go out with someone without chatting a little first. Maybe a few days of messaging once or twice a day. And I'm busy, so I usually don't accept a date within the next few days of speaking. I prefer 4-7 days in advance. It just depends.
This right here. As a man, I’d definitely wait up to a week of chatting. Maybe after 3 days we do a virtual to make sure we are who we say we are. 3-5 messages, OP, they didn’t even know who you were and you put them on the spot.
Both asking quickly and chatting for a while work equally well in my experience, success just depends on the opposite person. Based on EU tho, may be different in the US.
Well once a date is set then there's really no need to keep chatting via text in my opinion. I'll end up asking them those same questions in person, if I don't screw up and say something dumb before I even get that far, that is. Perhaps there wasn't enough interest to go on the date, but then why agree to the date in the first place? Instead of simply stating "I'd like to chat more before we set something up" (which I have had happen, and that's fine, but they end up being the ones who ghost).
Some people might say that continuing to text leading up to the date my spark more of an interest and might make them more eager. Obviously there are always going to be people who ghost and cancel last minute, men or women, but if you are looking for something more than a casual hookup it might be something to consider. Many women might feel uncomfortable saying no in the moment, and get more unsure as they are left in silence after the date is set. It brings up the question, how you respond if they initiate conversation after the date is set? They might be more comfortable and feel like you are slightly less of a stranger.
>get more unsure as they are left in silence after the date is set "Left in silence" as in "she tried keeping the conversation going but the guy stopped replying"? Then absolutely, that should be grounds for cancelling. However I think in many cases it's more that the guy hasn't read her mind and initiated new conversation (or kept it going) when he didn't deem it necessary but she would like to but refuses to make it happen herself for some reason. I've had a few such cases happen and just shake my head at it - good grief, have some agency of your own please! I also think it's not always about the conversation being paused (to be resumed on the date) but also about the time that passed. If the date is, say, 1-2 weeks in the future, the likelihood of flaking/cancelling/being stood up on to occur is much higher. Because the emotions she felt over text about me have dwindled. Sending her a text 1-2 days before the date, reaffirming the date and saying or referencing something that re-kindles those emotions usually does the trick for me, but I much prefer to set it in the very near future if we can accommodate it.
Right. None of them attempted to keep the conversation going. I would absolutely keep talking to them if they so desired, but I also don't want to be the dude who lingers and doesn't know when to leave it alone, then end up shooting myself in the foot. I don't want to smother somebody, and I don't want someone to smother me either. It's a two sided game, maybe that should have been my clue that they weren't really all that interested in the first place.
I don't think it's about "reading her mind." I know plenty of women who will text guys once or twice with no response before they decide to cancel. I'm not saying that upholding a conversation needs to be priority number 1, but if you truly want to meet someone, maybe it should at least be somewhere on that list. Also, to a lesser extent, if you want to just leave a conversation til the date, then you need to be explicit about that fact. There is the potential that's it wasn't, and she misunderstood. I agree somewhat about the timeline mattering, but if I set a date out a week or two in advance then I think that there should still be conversation I think it's a realistic possibility that many women wouldn't want to go on a date with a stranger that have heard from in a week. I just think that putting a conversation on hold because he doesn't think it's "necessary" could present a problem down the line if she is someone who is communicative.
>I know plenty of women who will text guys once or twice with no response before they decide to cancel I did cover the scenario you mentioned though and said cancelling in that case is understandable. What I said was unreasonable is a situation where she wants to keep talking but makes zero effort to and expects him to read her mind and make things happen for her. If she is indeed someone who is communicative then she should start by communicating her wants and needs, or at least have some agency and try to initiate a new conversation with him instead of waiting for him to do so!
For every woman who does exactly that there are men who just couldn't care about her efforts because it's easier for him to ignore them. It doesn't make either right it just what it is if his preference is that then like I said maybe he also needs to communicate that better
And that may be so (same in the reverse) but if she makes no attempt then it's strange to cancel a date over it. Might be better for the other person though. If someone has a need, does nothing to communicate it and then gets upset over not having said need satisfied, then that is to me a person who displays toxic behaviour and is not adult enough to have the communication skills for a relationship
I'm not sure how other women feel, but to me, it's not about the agency or ability to initiate the conversation on my part. I do my fair share of initiating and communicating either way. It's more about the fact that I'm looking for a man who values communication as much as I do on his own - without requiring a prompt or initiation from me. Meaning, I want the type of man who is naturally communicative with everyone. In addition, I am a person who wants to know others deeply. I believe that you could spend a lifetime connecting and communicating with a person and still never fully *know* them. So anyone who is of the opinion that they won't have any more questions to ask on the date if they text the days leading up to the date, is never going to be a match for me. I also very much value curiosity - I'm always asking questions and engaging in conversation. If my date doesn't exhibit a similar curiosity, I feel we won't be a good match. I don't think anyone is doing anything "wrong." They simply aren't a good match for one another. Perhaps OP would have better results if he did text leading up to the date, but I'm not sure if that would be him being true to himself or if masking as a person that would do that would lead to the relationship he wants, with a person that he's compatible with. I do agree that setting dates up too far ahead will generally diminish the possibility of follow through.
Well if I understood you correctly there will be no waiting for him to initiate because you will. And you will make an effort to keep it going. OP mentioned the women he meant were not like you because they were just as silent as he was and if there had been messages from them then he would have replied. So my response was tailored with that in mind
Him simply responding to my message would not be sufficient. I didn't delve into what I meant by not having an issue initiating or communicating. To clarify, I'm looking for someone to reciprocate my energy. I may initiate the first text, but I will not continue to do so if he doesn't also initiate. I will ask questions and have engaging conversations, but I won't continue to do so if he doesn't also ask questions. Is that pretty much what you meant as well?
No, I had misunderstood you slightly. I understand now that you will make an effort, then stop and test if he reciprocates it. That if he doesn't then you won't voice your needs and just cancel the date instead. I guess you can see it as an incompatibility and move on in that case indeed. But things might just sometimes change for the better if you do voice your expectations. It reminds me of love language stuff in relationships. You can work it out even if you prefer different styles, but if you resent instead of communicate then the entire thing will crash and burn. Anyway, I digress. I would act differently and at least say something before giving up. They might just react enthusiastically and show their communicative side more -- or be annoyed at it, in which case it is safe to cut them loose without a doubt! But I also think the way you do it is better than sitting back and waiting for them to do the work. You clearly seem to be doing your part!
I have had women continue to text me after setting a date that was a week out. Pretty much every day until we met up. How I responded was the same way I message people on bumble, I got around to it when I had the time to. I still don't make them a priority because I still don't know them. We ended up meeting up and she came over after. It depends on a case by case basis right? If she's interested in me, she will show me. If she isn't, she will show me. But canceling on a date at the 11th hour is just poor character.
Same could be said from their point of view, too, though. They could be thinking, "If he's interested, he'll show me." And then you don't text. So you're both stuck playing a game of dating chicken and nobody wins.
I showed my interest by asking them out. Lol
Plenty of people feel like not texting/dry texting= not interested so you’re kinda messing up thinking that’s enough my friend maybe explain though cuz I agree with ya if you over text what will y’all even talk about on the first date but they may not feel that way
Right and along those same lines I don't know if I want to go from zero to a hundred with these girls. If they need my time and attention 24/7, well, I just don't have that to give to them at this stage. Once I've gone out with them and built a little rapport? Yeah, I will give them more attention.
I feel the exact same way a lot lol don’t feel bad we’ll figure it out
But you asked them out without even getting to know them which probably made them feel disposable. I would have no qualms canceling a date made on such a basis.
Perhaps I'm not understanding the online dating world then. Cause when I ask someone out in person, the interaction could be very brief, they don't know me and I don't know them, but they're somehow more keen to go out.
But your whole post here is talking about how flaky people are. Maybe they've encountered the same? And by not being more proactive, they're assuming you're not invested and they'd rather just save themselves the trouble. Not saying this is all on you - they have a responsibility to put a foot forward as well. But if you're both playing chicken, you both lose, so someone's gotta break the pattern. And the only thing you can control is your own behavior.
The mental disconnect here is wild.
As a woman, I’ve found it strange to not text at least sporadically before the date. It gives you time to learn more about the person, so it sets you up with more info to ask questions on. For example, they text you about a bad customer experience (if they work customer service). You could then ask in person about their worst/favorite customer interactions or something. My current bf and I sporadically texted the week before our date, and it gave us more to talk about in person
I just wanted to point out how insane this sub is. You have said nothing wrong here, but you're being downvoted as if you made some kind of toxic remark. If people have feedback for your comment, by all means, give feedback, but downvotes?! I don't think that's necessary or kind. You met a few women and asked them out on a date—on a dating app. They said yes, then flaked. You have a right to have questions. The downvotes on your very innocuous comment are a reflection of why actually meeting someone is so unnecessarily difficult.
And also evidence that less is more. Saying too much opens up too many opportunities for people to disqualify a person, which is the case with my down voted comment. Who knows 🤷♂️ haha I keep my head held high!
Of course there’s a need to keep chatting, all you need to do is ask how their day is, or ask if they’re up for a phone call. Your silence is putting out lack of confidence and/or lack of interest. Both of those create a lackluster vibe Try “was just thinking about you, wondering how your day was”. A little bit of care and interest establishes the vibe that’s necessary for a real connection To be fair, if I was excited or intrigued by a guy, I’d met with him even if he was not sending a lot of messages
My guy, what’s your job? 🤣 I’m a female in sales. I meet strangers all.the.time. I set up coffee meetings, presentations and go to networking events. You might totally suck at conversing and I can make you feel good at it. I’d rather meet sooner than later, as well. And I don’t want to do dinner. If I’m not into you, a 60 min meal sounds painful, and is. I’m all about coffee, ice cream or stroll. First date is audition. BUT IT TAKES ALL KINDS. I’m not for everyone.
>there's really no need to keep chatting via text in my opinion. I'll end up asking them those same questions in person, if I don't screw up and say something dumb before I even get that far, that is. I can't say that I've found a great correlation between communicating a lot before the date, but your view seems a little fatalistic and shallow. If you are worried that your next 10 questions are your last 10 questions, you might want to reconsider the date. (I've screwed up more because of my zodiac sign than anything else I've said. More girls than know have screwed up by asking my zodiac sign.) >but then why agree to the date in the first place? Instead of simply stating They were filling their week's back up plans. Something better came along so they cancelled. I suspect your problem is the approach your taking in the conversations leading up to the date. As others have said, they agree hoping they feel inspired and by the last minute realize they're not. Based on women's posts here, if you manage to go 3 days and not talk about sex or gender politics, you're ahead of the game. So I would suggest working on your in-app communication and reconsider what you proposed doing on those dates. Is it just coffee? Just drinks? A dinner at a place that might be "too much?" Is it an activity that they're maybe not *that* into? Ask some of your female friends to check some of your message threads for help.
I actually do show my lady friends the messages I send and they're saying it's perfect, and that they would agree to go out. I understand that it's hard to know without seeing the messages, but rest assured that they aren't creepy, needy, pushy, or anything of that nature. I usually set up for some drinks at first. If we're vibing, we may grab some food or move to another venue. If we're still vibing I'll move onto doing some physical activity at another venue like a Dave n Busters for example. I've had good success with this, when I do get a date to meet up.
Your strategy is fine keep pushing. Most of the women are on there for attention and dopamine. 70% of women on dating apps never have and never will meet with ANYONE. just keep grinding till you find the ones that are actually interested in meeting, like the one you met up with and she came home with you after. Most of the skill involved with online dating is learning how to weed out the flakes and time wasters.
I think with some minor adjustments I could do a lot better. Like incorporating a video chat. I could see the benefit in that early on. This post was meant as more of a rant than anything, but I did end up getting some great advice out of it as well. Thank you.
I have been reading all your responses and you come off as a well-mannered and a good guy, and I’m sure you’ll eventually find someone you vibe well with. It just has not happened yet. I know dating can be brutal and there are so many flakes out there (men and women alike). You’ll get there.
Appreciate the kind words. Just had a bad run there, is all.
I feel like maybe you dont need to keep chatting about things you would ask on a date, but maybe a "hey, hope you had a lovely day today" or a "how was your day" and it allows you to maintain rapport but you dont have to go into 1st date depth conversation.
You're really thinking like a robot there, try to think more like a human, and build a connection and do small talk. And a woman is not a chat gpt prompt that will give you a precise robotic answer to your questions.
So I like to get to a date quickly, but not 3-5 messages quickly, and without being funny my time is valuable to me, I work full time, I have multiple hobbies and other friends, you're asking me to give up an evening or an afternoon but aren't willing to spend half an hour chatting first to check we do actually seem to get on before committing that time? I don't want to spend hours over several weeks chatting to someone before getting to meet them as I find it can give a false impression, but half a dozen messages, confirm a date then silence suggests to me there just isn't good conversation to be had here or you're just looking for hookups and juggling multiple women.
I’ll tell guys who ask me up front that I prefer getting to know someone better before I agree to go on an in person date but the thing that drives me CRAZY is them setting a date then having no conversation in between. If we don’t have something we can talk about over text consistently, then how are we going to survive a multi-hour date? Just stare at each other? lol If you’re not trying to get to know me and ask questions, then I assume your date request is disingenuous. You’re just looking to fill your social calendar. And I’m saying this as an exhausted female who starts convos and tries to keep them going 97% of the time.
I am a busy guy as well with a demanding full time job, and I have hobbies and play sports as well. It's a mutual agreement, I don't think of it as giving up an evening to meet a stranger. That's a very negative way to look at it, and if that's where your head is prior to meeting up, then you should ask yourself if you're ready for dating. I send these messages over the course of sometimes days, as I don't have the time to sit there for 30+ minutes chatting throughout the day. If I did, I'm worried that I'd give off the vibe that I have nothing going on and too much spare time. That's not a good look, for anybody. You and I are obviously different, and that's not necessarily a bad thing, and I'm sure you would be up front in telling a guy that "I don't want to set up a date before we get to know each other a little better", right? But once you've set the date, why continue the conversation? It'll lose it's flare, you'll end up asking the same questions and finding out the same details on the date, except adding in the possibility of a message being taken the wrong way and losing the date altogether. I'm not sure how that can be perceived as juggling multiple women, because I could be juggling multiple women and keep chatting with them as well, like you have suggested.
This is the problem. Setting a date after a brief exchange of messages and no further conversation isn’t appealing to some. People with whom I match well we don’t tend to run out of things to talk about so that has always struck me as an odd concern some have. I can chat while I go about my day. And if we are in a relationship I would expect some chatting throughout the day. So perhaps it’s simply incompatibility with these matches. Not saying your approach is wrong just have to find the people whose approach is similar.
I am more like you than like other people, and am a man, but I have found that these days, no matter what someone's style is, women want reassurance and confirmation, between the time the plans are made, and when you are to meet them, that they still matter to you, and that you are going to show up. Because one thing that women don't tolerate won't risk, and seem less able to stand than men, is being stood up. It happens all the time to men, but rarely to women, on dating sites, simply because they will almost always beat men to the punch on the game of standing someone up for a first meeting..
Standing someone up is heinous behavior. While I have genuine concern for my safety and screen quite rigorously prior to meeting a man from a dating app I can say I have never told someone I would meet them then not show up. I have had a change of heart and expressed that prior to our scheduled meeting time. Even that is unusual for me. I suss people out within a day or two of chatting.
Agreed, and even as a man, I refuse to accept the bullshit excuse or justification of personal safety, that so many women are glad to use, for defending themselves against justified criticism for standing men up for coffee meetings, etc.. I have been stood up ten times in the six years of OLD I have done since becoming widowed, and while that doesn't seem like a big number, and I have grown used to it, I assure you that if most women had to endure that sort of experience that often, they would be angrily bashing all men on reddit or other social discussion sites, since they have even less tolerance for it than men. Which is why it rarely happens to them, since they are more risk averse than men, and so they are usually great at reading situations where the man is likely to stand them up, and they beat them to the punch, by cancelling first, or not showing up themselves. If you are worried about your safety, all you need to do, is guard your safety in advance, by not giving your full name or phone number to the other person before the first meeting, same with your address, your workplace, etc., and use common sense. If you think the man is not safe, then all you need to do, is send him a message saying you changed your mind about moving forward with him, and are cancelling, and at least have the courtesy to so it with a couple hours notice or more, since I always check for messages from women, before I leave for the first meeting. Then, after he has time to read your message, or after the meeting time has passed, feel free to block him, but not before he has been able to see your cancellation message..
So here’s the thing- you’re getting the answer here and in other replies- your approach feels like minimal effort to the ladies and like you’re not really interested and are talking to lots of women and mostly looking to hook up. I get that you don’t see how it could be perceived that way, or that this is how it should work, or that you want to spend a ton of time texting when you’re busy. All of those are reasonable arguments. However, at the end of the day, you’re not getting the outcome you want and you’re being told why. Arguing about how it should work in this circumstance is futile- you can either adjust your approach or continue to do what you’re doing and hope that the lady you’re looking for appreciates it. To be clear- I’m not saying you’re wrong. I’m saying it doesn’t matter if you’re right.
>But once you've set the date, why continue the conversation? It'll lose it's flare, you'll end up asking the same questions and finding out the same details on the date To show that you're interested beyond getting a date. If you're worried you'll run out of topics, you're setting up dates with wrong people. Frankly I don't get it why women are accepting after 3-5 messages, I guess they hope to build more of a rapport with you until the date and they're getting cold feet when that isn't happening. Are you talking to women <25? Maybe that's why they don't know how to advocate for themselves. As a side remark, you might come off as a Corey Wayne follower to those who know his teachings.
I'm sticking within the 25-35 age range. I'm 32 myself. If they really wanted to keep chatting then they could make the effort, right? I just assume that they have dozens of guys all doing the same thing, peppering them with conversation and compliments, which I'm sure they get tired of. For me, I send a few messages to gauge her interest, and if she bites for setting up a date then I'll go for it. They all seem very interested at the time, I can at least tell that much. Also, what's wrong with corey wayne?
Lol. We want guys to keep the conversation so we’d know he’s interested. Girls want to be courted. The way you just sent want to set the date and not continue with the conversation would make us feel like you just want to hook up. So it’s a no for me.
The courtship happens in person. Body language and tonality are crucial parts in building attraction, both of which are missing in online interactions. I see your point though, I just don't know if that's for me. Perhaps this method does weed out the needy ones who require attention and reassurance, both of which I'm not into. Thanks for your feedback.
I wouldn’t call wanting more communication and chatting before a date “needy”. But if you truly feel that way then y’all aren’t going to be a match.
Hence why you need to be more communicative, OP. Please don’t dismiss it as being needy when they just want to know if you’re really their match. Once you matched, you are already in the talking stage. Will definitely unmatch someone who won’t talk to me. Plus stop collecting dates and compare them later? That’s off.
Bro 4 dates canceled on you obviously your approach isn’t working. People are giving you free advice, at least try it out before saying it doesn’t work. I had the same problem, now I text a bit more and voila, haven’t had a date cancel on me in years
I'm not just sitting here saying oh no that won't work, I'm saying those things because I've been there and tried it. I've had lengthy conversations that turned out great, but I've had more that turned out.. Well.. Not at all. When I say less before asking for a meet up, my results were far better. That's why I'm sticking to my method for the most part. I do agree with some of the advice that has been given to me on here, so I'm not just dismissing everything that comes my way. I'm going to make adjustments, just not extreme adjustments. Simple ones, like asking for a video chat date prior to an in person date might be the key that changes my outcomes.
That's crazy to get four flakes in a row. But sounds like you don't build enough familiarity / comfort before setting up the dates which leads to this. I usually go with 10-15 messages back and forth on the app before getting the number, then a couple more back and forth via text. Some people do facetime too but that's not my thing.
It's definitely a sign, and I've received some good feedback here. I'm going to make a few adjustments and see how it works out. Thanks for the feedback
At least you get matches with people you want to go out with. That puts you ahead of 90% of men. The only matches I get are really enormous girls I absently swiped right on before noticing that they only had pictures from the shoulders up. You just need to message them more/longer. I think you’ll be fine.
OP- it’s your approach. There is nothing necessarily wrong with asking them out quickly. And if they agree, they’re obviously attracted to you and excited. Then, instead of using that momentum to build up the anticipation, you simply let it fizzle away. This is where you miss the mark. I know you said you’re anxious about possibly saying something off-putting in the interim but if that’s the case and this woman can’t take a joke or a little banter then there are plenty more out there that will. It’s crazy to me that people think they’ll run out of things to talk about. People are married for 50+ years and never run out but you think texting in between will make it so the first date will have no exchanges? Come on. Women generally need a mental and emotional connection to be excited about a date. And if she’s just the average woman, she gets 50 likes a day. There is definitely another guy willing to make her comfortable and special along the way. You have already made it 98% percent of the way. Then when it’s time to be clutch…air ball. That’s your problem. Keep them enticed until game day.
I have 2 main feelings when I've arranged a first date. Excited and nervous. The excited bit makes me want to go, the nervous bit makes it all feel like too much effort. If I've clicked with someone beforehand it makes me more excited I am to meet them and the less likely I am to bail. I think after so few messages there probably is much less incentive for the women you match with to push through the nervousness and effort it takes to go on a first date.
Maybe because you had 4 dates for 4 days in a row? Maybe it feels like you care more about quantity over quality? Maybe they don’t feel comfortable with exchanging 3-4 messages and going on a date because they dont even know if there is anything other than a superficial connection involved. Maybe they had 4 different dates in 4 days and you just didn’t happen to make the cut because you were the fourth. Maybe you did some weird shit or sent some awkward vibes that made them all cancel. We don’t know. We will never know. Maybe do some self reflection because you are the only one with all the info about your behavior. We only get the pieces you’re telling us.
3-5 messages is too few to set up a date, I would think you’re too desperate, it’s more dangerous and risky for women to meet with online strangers, not even to mention the time they spent for getting ready. Talk 3-5 days to meet is the sweet point, imho.
I've gone both routes in the past and the ones I chat with more initially end up fizzling out, if not ghosting moreso than the ones I chat less with. And it feels worse at the end of the day knowing I just got used for some quick validation at my expense. I'd much rather have low investment and meet up to have that quality time with someone than to have high investment and never meet them. Chatting for too long online, in my opinion, presents more opportunities for a text to be misconstrued and ultimately earning myself the ick title.
Women have more mental burden to meet with an online stranger, it’s not like an interview, you need to meet as many as possible. You gotta find the one that’s truly interested in you. If none, just wait until it happens, there’s really no strategy for it, you cannot force love.
And this is exactly why I think as a man you exert the energy only to those who will meet with you quickly. Those who want to chat for a while usually, not always, end up being a catfish, looking for validation only, or eventually someone else comes along that they think is a better fit for them. It’s a waste of time and energy to go through that process as a man. Better to act quickly and be disappointed quickly. You might miss the opportunity to find someone but you’ll save yourself a lot of mental anguish.
100% disagree unless you are under 25. Most of the women I’ve dated went out with me after I invited them out after 3-5 messages. Most of the women who request we talk for a while first just play games.
I'm sorry that's your experience. As a woman I prefer to talk first to find out if there are any compatibility issues before wasting both our time going on a date. For me it's a lot more effort just going for a drink, for a lot of reasons, and I can find out pretty quickly if we're not compatible, just not 5 messages quick. 2-5 days is all it takes for me. If i feel we're compatible I use those days to find out more about each other so we have more to talk about on a date.
Yeah all the women told them but they wouldn’t listen🤦♀️
There is nothing to feel sorry about it because it is most men’s experience. I appreciate that there are women who might want to talk a little more. Regardless, I’m still going to ask you out quickly. If you simply respond that you would prefer to talk a little more before we go out, I’m going to be fine with it but now I’ve put the ball in your court and you can let me know when you are comfortable to go out. I just believe this is a much smarter process for men to use to find out who is serious about getting to know them and who is wasting their time.
I'm over 40F. I don't agree to dates until I speak with them for a while, and video chat to make sure neither sides are catfishing. Never been ghosted nor flaked on, and vice versa. I'm actually looking for something real, maybe it's easier for me as a woman, I understand that too. But I'm not wasting my time going on random dates. I have to like you, then invest in getting to know you, then go on dates. And I've gone on coffee dates, drink dates, but mostly have been dinner dates, even entire weekend dates because they flew out to see me. Depends on your intention in dating I suppose. But I'm not wasting my time because of the cliché "we won't know until we meet." I trust my judgment that I can get a feel of what someone is about even in the stage of chatting.
As a guy this is my exact approach as well. I need to know there is a decent connection and something potentially real before meeting up in person.
Errr depending on what type of girl you’re matching with, if they’re that easy to ask out, either they are very low maintenance or they don’t have a busy life, or both.
We are just going to have to agree to completely disagree with each other.
💯
As a woman I had the same experience last year. I had no idea why. I still don't. I think it's just a coincidence that some people will flake on you and others won't This year I've had a couple dates and one drove 2 hours just to see me. Wild. Some people will drop you with 15 minutes notice and some will travel hours on their day off just for a drink. It's not always something that is because of your behaviour. A lot of people are saying you didn't message enough and that's a fair point but these women still agreed to date you despite that. My response when it's too soon is "I prefer to get to know you a bit more before meeting up". I don't date guys I just said some small talk too and wouldn't agree to meet them just to cancel. That isn't something for you to change if it's working for you, it's down to women to make their boundaries clear if they don't feel comfortable, so you can assume they were comfortable when they agreed to the date and just decided they weren't interested anymore.
Appreciate your feedback and I agree as well. If they're agreeing to the dates then that's an obvious indicator to me that I'm doing enough to get them to that stage. I'm not one to keep messaging after setting the date and give myself a chance to talk them out of it, and neither are they continuing the conversation either. To me, this is normal. This is how I'd do it with someone I met in person. Perhaps I did just have a bad run-in with a few flakes there and I need to just keep chugging along. Frightening how many up votes the comments are getting stating that I'm not chatting enough, though. Can leave you second guessing yourself.
There is a reason those comments are getting upvotes… as a woman in the age range you can date I can very confidently say that if I set a date with someone and then they stopped talking I would assume they lost interest. Especially if there was no attempt to connect in a significant way the day before. You need to give some reassurance that you are invested in the date otherwise why would they be?
By setting the day, place, and time. The goal of online dating is to get them in person and off the apps, no? I just don't see a point in chatting any more than what is necessary to get them to agree to the date. Now let's flip the script. Why don't they continue the conversation if it's what they want? When the messages end with a "great! See you then! ☺️" Why would I then be like "sooooooo what are you up to?" Like come on. If they wanted to keep chatting, they can. I will respond. But they don't keep chatting, so why is it on me to initiate, set the date, and then keep on chatting? That screams needy in my opinion.
It’s not needy. It’s showing interest in the other person. If that’s not your style fine but know that there are many women, and men, that prefer to communicate more prior to actually meeting up.
Ok, do what works for you. But I know which guys are getting dates because I know women who use the apps and it’s the ones that make an effort to seem approachable. It could be as simple as sharing a picture of a cute dog you met or something neat you saw and sharing it and asking about their day the day before. It shows you are thinking of them and gives an easy convo starter for the date. Like oh how was your walk/that restaurant/whatever?
From the responses I’ve read you don’t seem very open to feedback. You seem to want to die on this hill which is fine but don’t be surprised when this happens to you. Yeah, I get that it’s shitty to be cancelled on. That’s not nice on the part of the women so I’m not making excuses for them. However, fella, as a hetero woman myself I’d 1) be freaked out by someone asking me out after 5 messages 2) be freaked out by someone asking me out and then not speaking to me until the day of. Ease up a bit.
There’s probably a lot more competition than you think. I signed up 4 days ago and have 6000 likes to wade through. You need to stand out in some way so it’s not different face, same conversation. From a girls perspective, sometimes you just aren’t in the right headspace to go on the date and cancel last minute or we find someone we feel a stronger online connection with and choose that avenue.
Similar. Me 40sF. 3 dates this weekend. 1 no show/w lame excuse 1 showed up and we have a second date 1 showed up and I didn’t feel it. Meeting IRL is SO important. I would’ve kept chatting with the number three guy and then met in real life and…. Blah. Better to know before you’re investing too much time IMO. I think there’s a really fine balance with getting a few chats with the person, then setting up a time to meet. People can go from fine to creepy in 4 exchanges! Someone pointed that out, and I have found it to be true. I was shocked to lear this week that even though I confirmed the date ahead of time, I *should have* confirmed it again like an hour before. Live & learn! Silly me feeling responsible.
It comes with the territory. Women get cold feet. I always did a quick video chat in the initial stages to make a more human connection. Then voice call or voice message before the first meet up. Relying only on texting makes it very inpersonal.
I will try to incorporate the video chat session into my strategy. Even if it's 5-10 minutes and set a date through that.
Even a 30 second "hello" works to make it more human.
Wait, so you haven't spoken to any of these women on the phone?
Well, no not really. I've had other successful meet ups without the phone/video chat so I never thought it was necessary. What I'm realizing now is the impact that doing a video chat may have on a prospective date. I actually did do a video chat one time with a girl, and she was the most vile person on the planet who was just looking for someone to argue with I think. Dodged that bullet. I think that video chat experience turned me off of the idea, but now that I think about it, it saved my ass from a complete bitch. I'm going to start doing that.
What exactly is "a successful meet-up?" (Yes, I'm being serious.) Either way, it's good to speak over the phone call or video-chat to see if meeting in person even makes sense. Your one time video chat is a perfect example of why it's a good thing to do. Imagine if you experienced that in person. Imagine if you experienced that in person... 4 dates in a row! Remember, it's not just about her and her time. It's about you and yours.
You're right, I agree with you. It's a tool to weed them out just as much as it is for them. A successful meet up to me would be someone who actually follows through and meets up for the date. Sometimes it turns into a successful date, sometimes it doesn't. I think we both know what a successful date is 😬
I understand and please don't take this the wrong way, but... A woman agreeing to meet AFTER some conversation and establishing a connection etc. isn't a "success" per-say. It's supposed to happen.
Tbh I’m a little nervous when a guy asks me out quickly, but I agree the voice chat / video call would maybe work for your goals and any nervous girls out there : ) good luck!! Sorry ppl ghosted you : (
Appreciate the feedback. Going to try incorporate the video chats and see how that works out
One counter to getting ghosted by women on first dates: If you set up a date with a woman through text only, ask if she'd like to talk on the phone before the date. If she's interested in you and comfortable, she won't want to and likely won't ghost. If she's interested in you but not yet comfortable, she'll be open to talking first and likely won't ghost after the call
Good point. Some others have suggested a phone or video call as well and I think I'll try it. Thanks
I'd say the 3-5 messages is very lacking and they simply lost interest in you. I try to chat for at least a couple days just to get to know the basics. Not sure how to accomplish that with 3-5 messages... Specifically when half the chicks are too lazy to add words to their profile.
Yuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuup, lot of flakes on dating apps. It sucks to have someone interesting lined up and then lose their match out of nowhere or suddenly fight for your life to communicate with them.
Congratulations! I'm so happy for yo- oh shit, yeah, it do be like that.. but seriously, I've seen this kinda post a dozen times, and I'd literally be sitting there all dressed up staring at my phone like "why did this happen to meeee"
Your approach seems to be quantity over quality. You’re playing the numbers game, and it’s not working out for you. I challenge you to focus on one person at a time for a couple of weeks and see what happens. I’m not saying wait two weeks to meet, just put in the effort to get to know someone. Maybe a week to FaceTime, build a connection, then go out. If you’re asking for a date after 3-5 messages without having established a connection, what you’re saying is that you’re interested in this person on a very surface level, and I think most women can kinda see through that. It feels forced and insincere.
Atleast they cancelled. Mine made me change, dress up drive 25 mikes and did not show up. Left the app after that.
Man that stings bad, I'm sorry you experienced that. I'm glad that they canceled as opposed to standing me up, for sure.
People can pick up on the lack of focussed energy when you're juggling multiple people, especially if they've been OLD for a while. Simply put, if you weren't totally reaching for people who were reaching for someone else (likely), you made them dip by neglecting to give any energy to them individually.
Zero matches in a year. Ur still winning dude
Every guy I've met up with has kept the conversation going and my brain engaged before our first date, which made the first dates feel far more natural and comfortable because we already had rapport. They've also all been pretty quick to set up first dates (within the first week of matching), but not 3-5 messages quick. That's wild to me. If we'd only had 3-5 messages, the guy had pushed for a date and then went silent on me, I'd presume they weren't actually interested. I wouldn't cancel day-of, but as someone who deeply values communication, if someone were to go dark on me after setting up a date I wouldn't be interested in meeting. We don't like feeling rushed into meeting up and you've openly said you're not interested in investing the time to chat with someone if you're not getting a date out of it but friend, that's the nature of the beast. We ALL chat to plenty of people with whom we don't end up having enough rapport or commonality to go on an actual date. Like it or not OLD is a woman's market so for every woman you're not willing to put the effort into chatting with for more than 3-5 messages, there are typically plenty\* of dudes willing to play a longer game. They're the ones getting dates that actually happen. So yes, you need to adjust your strategy. \*in most cases. Obviously there are women who don't get that much action on the apps, but as a general rule this is true.
I see merit in your post, absolutely. I guess it may have not occurred to me that they need a little more back and forth to feel more comfortable before meeting up. To me, it's wild that someone wants to chat a bunch to someone that they haven't even met in person, but I can understand why they might want it. How do these women meet people IRL if they need so much interaction and reassurance? Perhaps they don't. I don't know any more. I think it's time for a break lol
Advise that if anyone cancels, to got to go anyway. You can mention it will be just as fun if not more. Only plan an activity somewhere or something YOU want to do. Unless you do this online, dating is not good for morale. When out that evening, approach any group of women and hand over your phone and ask if they can look at your profile. Don't be self-depregating or have any shame. Will be refreshing that you get out and they’ll treat you as a human,
I definitely prefer to meet early on. There’s nothing worse than forming a connection chatting for it to fizzle in person. Plus, I’m not looking for a pen pal, but 2-3 days of constant messaging is enough for me to want to meet them. However only 3-5 messages wouldn’t be enough for me to determine if we have the same interests.
It’s just the reality of OLD. Women have lots of options, and can cancel whenever they feel like it with no noticeable loss of options. Something better comes up? Cancel. Weather isn’t perfect? Cancel. Don’t feel in the mood? Cancel. I agree with you that it doesn’t really make sense to keep talking once you’ve set up a date. For the same reasons you said. It doesn’t really improve the success rate, and plenty of options to screw up and blow it. But that’s what women want. Women want as many chances to weed you out as possible. They’re always looking for a reason to put you in the pass pile. This isn’t a great Reddit channel for dating advice. The Bumble app and the Bumble Reddit skew towards the exact type of women you probably want to avoid.
Preach. Most of the feedback in this thread is straight trash and will lead a man no where
For me, I unmatched with men that asked me out too soon. I also lost interest in men that carried on randomly chit chatting for days, even weeks. The sweet spot was someone I spoke to for hours the first time (he didn’t the send the sporadic 2 texts in a week, it was back to back replies) and found out that we had a lot in common and our values aligned. we arranged to meet later that week and are still going strong.
I'll make an effort to converse more initially, and set up a video chat at the very least. Thanks for the feedback.
The problem you have, which is the same problem that every man has on the apps, and this one in particular, is that you do not realize how much competition you have. Women are flooded with attention. Between setting up a date and the day actually come in up, they would have carried on being courted by other men, some maybe better to them than you. It's not something you did, it's what happens when there are too many of you relatively to the number of women on the same network. (I am not condoning that behavior, just putting it into perceptive for you)
Yup, that could be a reason and I would totally agree with you. I've had women cancel only to reach out a couple of days later wanting to reschedule. I have to fight the temptation to say "what, realized the other dude ain't shit?" Lol. It's a tough game with the online dating. Sometimes I feel the push to drop the apps altogether and never look back.
You know, I dont personally ever recall that happening but I really filtered people out with my profile because I made it plain that I was not interested in talking to people who used the apps for validation, who were closed off or who were not prepared to talk on the phone or vidchat after introductions were exchanged. I found that really worked, but I received very few matches after I set those boundaries and I left online dating shortly thereafter. My generation grew up without the internet and really should be able to cope with chatting to a person over the phone so if they insist on hiding behind it I am immediately out.
> I found that really worked, but I received very few matches after I set those boundaries and I left online dating shortly thereafter. Curiosity has gotten the best of me and I can't tell if you left OLD because it worked you found a suitable match or you left because you didn't. I question if it "really worked" or if you only succeeded in driving off potential matches.
I'm sure the negative tone put a lot of people off, probably would have put me off, but to be honest I dont mind. I'm an old guy, married twice, two kids, never really struggled to have a girlfriend because I'm not shy and I have a good sense of humour. So its cost me nothing, just a few more spins at the casino where you probably dont get a prize and you might not like your prize and worst case your prize will turn out to have comorbid NPD with bipolar and destroy your life lol. I'm good thanks 😂
You bring up a good point here. Perhaps by explicitly stating something akin to what you've stated will work out in my favor. Shows that I'm not here to waste time or have my time wasted. If it results in fewer matches, that's fine with me, so long as the matches are of better quality. Do you think that the validation seekers would go so far as to actually agree to meet up, though? Or do they disappear long before that? I'm trying to figure out if the women who canceled on me were actually willing to meet or they just used the idea of having a date to feel wanted.
For the most part they probably were not, although it depends on the age group you are dating. The older the age group the more of this kind of thing goes on. I would go so far as to say there is a kind of mutually parasitic dynamic between older women and low status men. The women aquire so many of these dudes, swap them out etc and they have 5 or 50 guys paying them compliments every day. Similarly, the dudes have so many closed off women they pay compliments to every day in the hope that their strategy will pay off at some point. The worst site for this is definitely Badoo in my country but I think that goes on a lot to be honest. There's a lot of desperate people, you know? When you hit your 50's and you are on your own the walls start to close in on a lot of people. I was fairly successful on Tinder until I got turned off by the whole scene and started trolling on my profile. I ended up being banned for really almost nothing but I think my profile was flagged by so many people over a period of time that the admin just had enough in the end. I deleted them all and now I feel like someone shower fresh again and just looking for someone in the real world.
I feel ya. I'm talking to women around the 25-35 age range, I am 32 myself. I just have too much going for me in my life and not enough time to sit around and pepper these women with compliments and validation, so it's unfortunate that they are gravitating towards those behaviors, but I do understand why they are doing it. It can be just a bit confusing when the people in my life are telling me that I'm a catch and shouldn't have any problem finding someone, yet these are the results I'm getting.
Yeah its a little counter-intuitive. I have met quite a few women, mostly on Tinder and they were a mixed bag, no real catfish though, and they were mostly nice people, no one is perfect lol, and some of them I saw more than once and a few of them obviously wanted to begin a relationship but generally the nicer they were the worse they looked. There's some kind of equation surely where the better looking the prospective date, the more likely its a situational problem or they have a personality disorder or something because the better they look generally the more messed up they are as people. Then you get the poor judgement crowd of 40+ women who decide to get their neck tatted ffs. That's another Badoo special 😂 What are they thinking....
My perspective- the online dates I’ve been excited about, and the 3 that led to meaningful, long term connections, involved at least 1-2 weeks of texting and buildup prior to us meeting in person. None of those involved setting a date and then not talking anymore. If you have chemistry with someone, that should start to be apparent even over text in the early stages. It’s probably the case for both of you that this is just some going through the motions thing. There is nothing to be excited about because you haven’t really interacted beyond matching. You know nothing about each other. So in her mind, whether or not you all go on the date doesn’t matter. You’re no different from the endless number of men she doesn’t know on the app who could also potentially ask her out. You’re just a question mark at this point. Not condoning the flaking, it’s still rude. But that might be the thought process.
Same thing happened to me as well lol. Was supposed to meet up today but they cancelled. Almost like they were looking for an excuse to do so.
I think with all of this it's best to try your hardest to keep your head held high and not let it get to you. Easier said than done, I know, but we can take it. We're strong!
Since *all* 4 women canceled, you should be concerned if there is any negative information about you online/ Facebook groups where women discuss red flags/bad dates with men. If one or two women canceled, we can assume maybe anxiety took over or maybe they aren’t actually single; but since all 4 canceled, that is cause for concern.
I'm terrified about those groups because I dated a vengeful bitch who is totally the type of person to put me on there with a bunch of made up bad shit just to ruin my chances at dating.
While those groups are great for making people aware of *legit* predators, cheaters, and overall horrible people, the dark side of them is that people will misuse those groups to make someone else’s life hell who doesn’t deserve it.
😭
I’ve been setting up dates for three weeks and my stats are 5 canceled, 3 gone on. But 5 canceled seems wild! I’m a woman, so I guess my impression is that men are flaky. But yeah, I get a little mad because I have limited time, if I’ve gotten ready or arranged my day around it and you cancel at the last minute it’s UGH
When I had a date set up to meet, in the interim days if it was a few days, I played a question game with them. What’s your favorite ice cream? What’s your favorite vacation spot? Lefty or righty? Stuff like that just to keep the connection open but not a serious conversation.
They probably frequent "girl groups" on social media that are area bound and found out you lined up their dates. I'd say you got the same commitment you gave. Which is to say none 🤷
I committed to a day, time, and place. I don't really know what else I can do or say to show my commitment to someone I don't know beyond that. Perhaps they did communicate on a girl group but on that same note I feel like I wasn't that impactful to warrant a post. If the date went bad and I was a freak and they posted about it, that's a different story.
Sorry but 3-5 messages before setting the date? Man you have to build the momentum and show that you’re interested. I won’t meet a guy I just met without knowing who he is as he might be a dangerous person.
I see little risk in meeting someone out in a public place. If I were to invite them straight over to my house, yeah okay I could see the concern there.
It only happened to me once in 4 years
😒😒😒😒😒😒😒😒😒😒😒😒😒😒😒😒😒😒😒😒😒😒😒
Ive had much more success on POF than most other apps, but maybe that’s just me
I only go on dates with people I've sent about twenty messages or so. Need to know if they can hold a conversation online - their job, interests, what they do in their free time, their humor, their dating ideals - if I think we are compatible, I ask them out. If i knew nothing about them then I would never waste 4 hours of my evening with some rando
Chances are they look different in person than their pics and they chicken out. #2 a lot of women are on the app for validation and actually never interested in meeting to begin with, weird but true. I (F24) usually prefer to have at least 1 call before meeting. More than 3-5 messages doesn’t make you a pen pal. Me personally I prefer a little bit more than 3-5 messages plus a call so I can feel comfortable enough to meet up IRL. I’m also constantly updating my pictures to the most recents that way I’m confident they won’t feel catfish.
Women are quite good @ being able to read your investment & we males think we have a “strong gut instinct” woman have like tripple a males. I’m not saying it’s why they cancelled on u. But they do have a very strong gut instinct 🤷🏼♂️
So for me, continuing to chat with them before scheduling dates is what *made sure* I didn't get the same end result as you. I know it's the game plan for like 90% of men, but my recommendation is to actually get to know them a little before trying to set something up. You can save a ton of time and annoyance by weeding through them before that type of situation happens. Rushing into dates without really "vetting" them to some extent is just bonkers to me. You're putting no real effort in, and as a result you're getting no effort back. Seems obvious to me. If you can't put in the little bit of extra time, then I guess keep doing what you're doing, but then you also shouldn't complain about your poor results.
I feel the opposite. The date isn’t the end goal the date is the beginning of any meaningful communication or chemistry at least to me. Once I had someone bail mid date unfortunately. It was a food truck event and she went to get in line supposedly and just left and blocked me. I messaged someone else on bubble that I had just matched with (didn’t talk to at all beforehand) asked her if she wanted to come downtown, she came before I even finished my food from the other person so it’s definitely a thing that people will meet right away if they think the person on the other end is a catch as long as they feel safe and comfortable of course.
I know it can happen, and can work, and does. But it also can fail miserably, like in the OP's case. I think we all know the saying about doing the same thing over and over and expecting a different result. Sometimes you gotta try something different.
true
The only thing I can suggest is try different approaches. As a woman, before deleted the apps almost a couple of years, I had 7 dates scheduled in the last 2 weeks. Only 3 made it. Additionally, first dates rarely moved to second dates. Once I got back on the apps, I decided to only go on dates the guy organizes. When I guy organizes a date, they appear more invested. I rarely have dates canceled and they frequently go onto multiple dates too. There has also been posts on here where guys have mentioned they have had great results organizing dates.
Its because you cant be trusted, none of us can. Were seen as liabilities. Why take the chance, when you can stay safe. Ive recently created a new account and have had much more luck with matching however ive started every single match with conversation, said hello and was nice. Either unmatched with no reply, or just no replies in general. I think we can just pack it up at this point.
This may sound out there as a suggestion to these women and the men that do it too, if there are any but , and just hear me out. Put on your big girl/ big boy pants and if the person you’re talking to asks you out, and for whatever reason you feel, just Effing Say “No” “ No ,thank you”. And state your reasons or don’t but saying “yes”, then canceling because realized later it made you a certain way, makes you a douche. Like I stated on here before I’ve had 12 girls cancel on me since February for various reasons. “Busy, forgot, ghosted, double booked, yadda yadda yadda. I’’d have much more respect for the woman that says “you know what, its a bit too soon for me. Let’s see how we go in a few weeks.” This “Yes and then Dip” is just a shitty thing to do.
How could you see 4 women in a week you won’t
Yeah same with guys🙂
Report them so they don't waste other guys' time as well.
at most 3-5 messages? i think you should text with them for at least 1-2 days before setting the date if they make it that far, this will limit the possibility of flaking
Well I don't make bumble my priority as I go through my day so I message when I get free time and feel like responding. Sometimes these messages are spread over the course of 2-3 days.
You are pursuing the 100% correct strategy for a man on OLD -- playing the numbers. Keep doing it. 95% of women on these apps are a colossal waste of time. Women who need to "build a connection" on the messenger, women who flake, women who just want validation -- you just have to plow through them and not get caught up in the rejection. My best dates were with women who agreed to meet after a few messages and willingly exchanged phone numbers. That's what you're looking for. It's totally okay for a woman to feel uncomfortable meeting a stranger, but don't waste your time on them. OLD isn't for them. Keep lining up dates and backup dates. It's like sales. You have to keep filling the prospect funnel to filter out the tire-kickers.
Thanks for the encouragement and reality check. Do you typically wait to exchange numbers after you've met up or go for the number and then video chat and/or set up the date? I've done both with mixed results.
Never schedule a meet without a phone number. Those women who don’t/wont have neurological issues, are time wasters and flakes, or have nefarious agendas. Like the other commenter said (and I’ve met hundreds of women online had thousands of matches so I know how to read the time wasters) the ones that agree to meet after a few messages and willingly give you their number to facilitate logistics are the ones that are actually interested and have little to no flake rate. Everyone else on there is pretty much a waste of time if your interaction doesn’t follow the pattern he outlined.
After a few messages that indicate she's interested, I just ask her out. "Would you be free for a drink on Friday" or something. The answer needs to be "yes" or "sure" or "okay" or "Friday I can't, but I'm free on \_\_\_\_\_\_" or even a flirty "hmmm maybe :)" If it's *anything* other than these responses, it's a no. Even if it's equivocal like "okay, but I don't want to impose on you if etc. etc." Equivocation = flake. It's either a firm unequivocal "yes, I can meet you on xyz date at xyz location" or she's a waste of time and I move on. Once she agrees to a date, I give her my number. She should respond in kind. If she doesn't, that's usually not a good sign but I'll give it a shot if she is still willing to meet. In my experience, women who are skittish about giving out their number are going to be skittish about meeting up. They tend to be time-wasters. Once the date is set, there is no video chat or further conversation in text unless she is initiating it. Rapport and connection are built in person. I want to spend my time on women who are on that page.
Well we both share similar mindsets for this shit and I know it works well for women that I meet in person. I agree with what you're saying, as I have had good results by going about it that way. Better results than any other approach for sure.
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3-5 messages isn’t even table stakes. There’s minimal interest and zero investment, so it’s not terribly surprising they’re bailing. I realize this is like a new trend with OLD but never one I got on board with. If you don’t want to chat and get to know me before I spend the time and energy, and let’s be real 7/10 times money as well…that’s gonna be a no from me dawg. I don’t have a specific time frame, but if texting/calling goes well, you reach a point where both people WANT to meet each other…and that’s a different vibe than saying yes to meeting a stranger. Those dates don’t get cancelled on.
I'm going to try and incorporate a video chat in there between the texting and the date, as someone else has suggested. I think that may make it a bit more human rather than text on a screen. I definitely see where you're coming from. Thanks for the reply.
It doesn’t matter whether you send 3-5 messages or 35. If they’re interested they will meet. Ignore all the other advice you’re receiving and take it from someone who’s had actual success in the space. You can’t get to know someone through small talk over text and you can’t build attraction that way either. The app is a tool used to meet people and your text interactions should be used to facilitate that as you are currently doing.
If you don’t spend time over text to get to know each other there’s less investment in showing up. I usually text for at least a week before going out on a date and I’ve yet to be stood up. Plus why agree to a date with someone you really don’t know anything about? That, to me, is more of a waste of my time then spending a little time to see if it’s a good enough fit to meet.
Well the second part of your comment is something you'd have to ask the women who bailed after agreeing to meet up. I have no idea why they'd agree to meet up and then flake. 🤷♂️ As far as the first portion of your comment, have you ever spent days/weeks talking to someone and then get ghosted? That hits a bit harder than being canceled on in my book, which is why I don't like that approach. Now I'm all invested in a wall of text and got nothing to show for it. And just to clarify, I have never been stood up on a date. They at least have the decency to cancel 😂 being stood up sounds awful.
I’ve been ghosted but usually early on. I don’t get too invested in a weeklong conversation. Honestly what most often happens is we meet and there’s not enough chemistry or they didn’t represent themselves accurately. Part of texting is to determine if they are flaky. I hear you though, it’s disappointing investing time getting close for it not to work out but I just see that as part of the process.
Wait a minute…you actually get dates, even though they cancel?
Pen pals is my experience. They love chatting and complimenting them. Showing up for a date? Nah.
Back when I was still dating last year I had one date on Wednesday, another on Thursday, a singles party on Saturday, and another date on Sunday. Every one of the dates was at least 90 miles drive away from me. I was exhausted.
I'm thankful that I live in a city where at most I'll have to travel 20 minutes to meet up. It helps a lot. That does sound very exhausting. Hopefully one of them turned out all right?
Yeah, one did! The second woman I went out on a date with. We've been together seven months now.
Awesome, happy for you!
Next time arrange with the 5 girls for the same day…then wait and see what happen…if one really confirms cancel the others. Play the game (let the downvotes come my way)
See, I just can't bring myself to do that to people. I'm a man of my word. If I say I'm going to be there, then I'll be there. Canceling really isn't an option to me unless some emergency seriously did come up, which let's be honest, is extremely rare. I definitely have heard of guys doing that, though.
Women do get anxiety before dates and cancel pretty often. I would just have a more casual approach, like "I'm going here. If you'd like to join me, that's fine." Like no pressure to show up. Using this approach, I've had more success.
I could try that approach. Thanks for the suggestion.
Do not use this approach, it shows insecurity, fear of rejection, and is very unattractive. Ask them out clearly and with confidence such that you might get rejected.
I think I could see a scenario where it could work out, though. Like making a same-day date. Chat for a bit, "hey me and my friends are going here why don't you meet us out", kind of thing.
That's even worse. Shows the same fear of rejection plus it isn't even a date.
Likely you’re setting up the date too far in advance so it isn’t a solid plan, then sending a needy “r we still on for Friday?” Msg, + generally texts being too boring, needy +frequent
That's a lot of assumptions you just made and I'm not sure where you would have picked up on that vibe. Your comment seems a bit trolly but I'll bite. I typically set the date up at their discretion by asking what their availability is looking like in the next few days. They'll give me a day. If it works for me, I set the time and place. I don't send needy or insecure messages, not once not ever. I do not confirm the date. If I say I'm going to be somewhere, I'll Damn well be there. I have integrity and am a man of my word. IF, and that's a big IF I feel like she might flake, I might say something like "hey I'm going to be running late, can we push it back 30 minutes?". This let's me know if she's still on board or not, without sounding needy.
Ok wel try being more fun/DGAF about setting up the date, I say “PS can meet for quick drink on Tues or Thurs, if u promise to behave ..”, used that successfully like 300 times, askin for her availability just sounds a bit like u have nothing else going on
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Could be any reason for this. Don't be surprised if one or more of them knew each other and shared your profile. This is very common now.
You'd think it'd incite some competition within them, huh? May the best woman win. Ha. If they're sharing messages, there wouldn't really be anything to share. So what if I set up a date with each of them, on separate days, right? There's no problem with that. I don't chat with anyone enough to give them any sort of ammunition to use against me. So I don't think that's it
4 dates? Fishy. You must be a 10, a top 0.001% setting up dates with 5s and 4s, or simply those are fake accounts. I'm a solid 8 in looks. Top 2% financially. Minus for nor being white (nor black, so no niche market either), lookesmaxxed, I get a date a year in the US and a date on every trip abroad (way better abroad). Level of girls abroad: 8 and above. Level in the US: 5, 6, being generous and taking only the US pool, they would be 3,4 in the global league, including the poorest countries and war zones. I took a break from OLD because I'm not in my absolute 100% so it's a waste of time at this point for me, planning to recover and get to that level to start the playing the game of not scoring a year alone with no intimacy. And no, I'm not the one breaking up, they do, because they have me as an option. The problem is that it's a closed market. Women collectively lowered their value and men have to take it or leave it. The best we can do to bring a nice girl, crossing fingers she doesn't lower her level, or go enjoy the rest of the world. Or settle with what's left here, which will ditch you after a few dates anyways so, get used to that and learn to love to live alone. Embrace manhood from a different perspective, we are nobody's heroes anymore, until the next war.