I think part of the excuse this time is that some of the oil/fuel tankers are being delayed by the Yemen/Houthi attacks. But it is completely in the oil giants favour to park the ships up and wait for the price to rise anyway....
I switched to an EV in December.
Between solar charging, cheap overnight charging, and octopus free electricity sessions, the last 1800 miles have cost me £11.
Solar charging isnt free though, its a massive up front cost....although thinking about it if you got one of those schemes of free using it and any sold goes to the provider I guess it could be free.
My solar/battery is saving me £200 a month on my bills, and is generating another grand or so a year in export.
I’ve had it for 16 months and I’ve already recouped 40% of the cost. And that’s not taking into account the cost per mile saving.
You may not see it as a positive, but I see it as an overwhelmingly good thing.
Similar here. Got a used EV, solar panels and a battery all on an interest-free loan, so no up-front cost. The whole setup should save me \~£100k over 25 years (!).
IMHO people significantly underestimate how lucrative it is and parrot misinformation about the costs without actually checking the numbers themselves.
They do - and to be fair, I’d underestimated the payback time before it went in - I’d calculated it as being around 9 years, where it’ll end up being just under 3.
Energy prices don’t seem to be heading back to where they were, be that actual supply costs increasing, or just every step of the supply chain gouging their extra 10% profit, so to have a significant amount of energy security is.. important to me.
The cost savings are a bonus. A big bonus at that.
Yeah I think the rule of thumb was always "7-10 years". But that was in the 2000s, and [solar cell prices are down a staggering 60-80%](https://samsetproject.files.wordpress.com/2015/07/fall-in-solar-prices-chart-1.png) since then.
They're one of the few things in this world getting cheaper right now. And my payback is looking like 4 years.
And yeah, I'm flabbergasted by the UK's energy policy - decomissioning our gas storage, declining planning permission for basically any energy project, escalating the cost of nuclear to the point it'll probably get cancelled like HS2.
I hit a bit of a "fuck it, if you want something done right, gotta do it yourself" moment a few years ago and just got the whole lot. IMHO our government should be the ones who look after energy generation, security, resilience etc. But I was getting increasingly uncomfortable with the impact of economic instability on my family and I was fortunate enough to be able to do something about it.
That was exactly my mindset. I don’t trust private corporations to do anything other than “deliver increased shareholder value”, so figured I’d look after my and my family.
Long term thinking does not seem to be something government does..
Imagine how much we could reduce reliance on oil if every house had to have 3 or 4 kW of panels, not just the measly one or two panels I see. And that’s before taking battery storage into account..
Yeah I mean there seems to be loads of naivety and conspiratorial thinking (just look at the other posts in this thread), but no-one should be surprised when private, profit-seeking corporations do their thing and make money.
People seem to have a weird expectation for them to behave like charities, but the reality is they're gonna do their thing. Your choice is whether you pay their price or try and find an alternative.
The energy prices are down, but the Ofgem price cap still keeps them high for people on capped tariffs. I switched to Octopus Tracker as soon as I learned about this tariff on this sub and my bills dropped by a large chunk.
The biggest difference for me is the quadrupling of my electricity standing charges compared to historical averages. This by itself is a larger amount than either gas or electricity on an entire year of Octopus Tracker back testing compared to the best deal that I got in the past decade from a supplier that eventually went bankrupt.
I had my calculations thrown off by this market as well. My smart heating system was supposed to break even in about 8 years at gas prices of 2.3p/kWh, but two winters at 7-8p/kWh shaved off 42% of the price that I paid for that system. That's before taking into account that my comfort is either the same or above compared to the system it replaced.
Some of those can be quite out of date. My calculated payback was 9 years, but the reduction in energy bills (£300ish a month, down to £120 a month, and even with that I’m £700 in credit after 9 months with Octopus), and the money made from export speaks for itself - I’ve saved a tonne.
I don’t think it would be as beneficial to me without the battery - that’s allowed me to store the solar and use it when convenient, charge when there’s free electricity from the grid, and discharge when they pay top dollar for it - you can’t manipulate the energy prices as easily without a storage medium in between.
Last year, from early April (when we had our first day running completely from solar) to the last day in September when we switched to topping the battery up overnight, we imported a total of 13kWh from the grid, and that was just the leakage back and forth from the meter.
During summer it generates so much that it pays for my gas usage, the standing charges, AND builds up a honking great credit balance..
Would you mind disclosing which company? I'm getting all sorts of prices and unsure which companies are reputable enough or not. Some almost seem a little too cheap. Thank you.
I used a local(ish) company to me called Cawoods. They’re an electrical company that had moved into solar a year or so before I bought, but they did a superb job.
Prices can be all over the shop for sure, I narrowed it down to three suppliers but the most expensive and cheapest was about ten grand difference… 👀
Thank you, that's good to know :)
I had a similar experience wrt the prices. Was looking at 6KW solar panel array and 5 Kwh battery. Cheapest was £7.5K and most expensive was about £20K!
In the end I held off as I could be in a more sustainable place with my finances. Something I'm considering in maybe a year again. I might be better going with a larger battery to make the payback time faster with flux vs the normal octopus export rate.
>01011011001
I also have 12 panels and get nowhere near these savings.
To export £1000 a year with octopus SEG at 15p kWh I would need to export 6,666kWh which is about double what I actually generate in the whole year.
Plus so save £200/month I'd need to generate 630ish kWh(octopus currently charge me 29p/kWh) so that would be another 7560kWh/year
For me to generate 14,226 kWh/year I'd need nearly 60 panels (and a much bigger house to put them on)
Is there a much better tariff that I should be looking at?
I’m on Flux Export. I get between 25p and 42p per kWh exported depending on time of day.
Plus DFS saving sessions are from £1.75 to £4 per kWh.
You need to get on Flux!
Oh, and go look up Octopus Power-Ups. If you’re in a postcode that supports it you can get 2-4 hour sessions where the imported electricity is completely free. We get about 10-15 of those a month. I use it to charge my battery and car and run everything I can possibly run in the house…
So I spent some time looking through the octopus tariffs available and in the summer months I could definitely make an improvement on what I make on my exported power. Not £1000/year but definitely a good increase on the few hundred I currently make.
I've logged 11 DFS sessions in the last year (which I think is all of them) but that only nets me a few pound each time. I'm not eligible for for the Powerups in my region, but looking at the data on previous Powerups it's not gonna be netting me big money.
What's your method for saving £200/month?
You’ve got to have the right combination of circumstance for sure - somewhere to charge at home, the right tariff, and even better if you can get free electricity at points.
But if your costs are minimal and you own your own car, there’s almost no sensible reason to switch to an EV. Running your existing car until it dissolves is a far more sensible and responsible way to go.
Yeah EVs purchased privately don't might financial sense because of the huge depreciation (great if buying 1-2 years old, eg Renault zoe for £12k, down from £30k). Leasing might make sense if deal is good, but right now you need salary sac scheme to make the numbers add up.
Second hand. Charge off peak on the drive and do a higher than average mileage but without crazy LEJOG trips that require charging away from home and the EV makes a lot of sense. Our fuel bill is hundreds less each month with our EV.
Brand new EVs are not cheap. But used ones are bargains tbh. 21 plate ev with 140 miles range usable, 15k milage. 8k. In perfect condition. Battery state of charge which I checked is 94%. Costs me 7 quid to charge it to full at home and I'm not even on an EV tariff. That's 21 quid roughly for 420 miles of motoring without road tax and Stella reliability. No maintainamce costs. It's still under 8 years warranty.
Cost me 8.5k with some haggling.
Bought a van. Env200. Converting it to a day camper and easily usable as a daily.
But leafs are pretty cheap as well. If u wait, watch all these mg4s, polestar 2and Tesla M3 come down in price. It's about to all completely crash in terms of cost and the market will soon be full of electric vehicles from China which are as well made as anything from Europe like byd. The electric car market is completely exploding because they are much better than ice cars and easier to actually make.
Yup, through salary sac you're getting a £50k EV for effectively a 30-42% discount, more if employer passes on their NI saving, and even more if you're a vat reg Ltd owner who can claim back 50% of the Vat too. It's why you see so many teslas on the road, my model Y is costing me less per month than my 8 year old lexus NX did inc insurance, running costs etc, plus I can still claim 9p per mile for business use even if octopus are paying me to charge my car.
Probably got 2-3 years left before this golden goose comes to an end so I'm making the most of it
I get that. But if you own your car outright, I can't see how you'd justify it. If you're already on finance and find a better form of finance/ salary sacrifice then go for it.
Yeah, although if you have a lot of capital tied up in current car it might be worth doing the figures. Guess it depends on mileage too. Do a lot of business miles then EV could make sense, eg £4500 for 10k miles which would alone cover a £300 personal lease payment.
Agree with you on the limited timescale. I can see the government, whoever that is at the time, seeing the reduced income from fuel duty, VAT, etc and deciding to squeeze it a teeny bit here, a tiny bit there..
Especially on insurance, my dad pays 1500 quid for insurance on a leaf, he has over 2 million miles of experience as well as all the truck licenses and qualifications
This country has public charging ass backwards. In their determination to recoup their investment cost in as short a period of time as possible it’s put the public charging into a position where it punishes drivers..
Can imagine my face when a week before April last year my chargers have a bit of orange paper on them telling me in 1 week the pricing is going from 25p to 48p, almost doubling waaheeeeeeeeeey.
At the current price, which is still lower than any other provider I find publicly except for Shell@Aldi stores it can work out more expensive in winter than petrol on my previous car(0.9 Clio).
My EV lease and charging are costing me about £150 month less than my old lease and fuel.
If you own your current car fully then there’s very few arguments for switching, either to an EV or to another ICE.
I spend about £300 a month on diesel. Im looking at £200 a month on finance (personal loan is usually the cheapest way to buy a car on finance) which leaves £100 for fuel (which I expect to be about £30 on Octopus EV tariff) and insurance.
Because their quarterly profits aren’t up on last quarter, and as we all know, everything on this planet revolves around profit over people.
So fuck everyone’s wallet, because the sick degenerate millionaires and billionaires need more money.
Same as these fucking billionaires energy providers, all of these sick fucks are braging about how many billions of profit they made this year!! Wohooo fucking great!!! Im happy to help!!
There’s only one way it will change, but people don’t seem to like that option as it involves putting themselves on the line with everyone else. So, they’ll just keep taking as long as we let them get away with it. 🤷🏻♂️ Such a shame we don’t unite anymore in this country.
Because we can't simply unite. People feel breath of threat on their neck's. All of big protest we see in tv are sponsored by big companies/politics etc that's why you can see people with huge nice printed banners, flags, that's why they are so well organised. This picture lands in mass media and it does it job there.
But no one can fight with oil/energy providers. Because, government is part of this scam. They were sending people their money from taxes as "pay relief" when they double or triple our bills. They used our own money for that. That stink as fuck from thousand miles!
They got us by the balls i am afraid.
To understand the laws of speed pricing one must look at the speed of how quickly the price of crude oil is passed down to customers at the forecourt.
Unfortunately the laws don’t work in reverse, so when the price drops even by a 10cents it takes somehow 4 weeks to notice the price drop 😂😂😂
And remember that the UK government held a 50% share in BP at one point, but our beloved thatcher decided we didn't need long term wealth. We could've had a sovereign wealth fund.
One option could be introduce revenue tax on firms not 100% UK based, or reduce Corp tax to 10% for wholly owned and based UK firms, with some exceptions for firms key to UK industry, eg Toyota, nissan. Meta can fuck itself. The US and EU will have a shit fit though so wouldn't take off.
Yes and no. It's the one part of the system that is profiteering and shit.
Price goes up, it takes a couple of weeks to affect the pump price. Goes down, and it goes down the same amount, but over a longer period of time, 3-4ish weeks to protect against any volatility.
It's going up recently because everyone in US is driving loads "driving season", plus the budget is coming up so fuel is being stockpiled by UK suppliers in case of any tax/duty increases. Add in the Suez canal being avoided by a lot of large shipping companies and we get what's going on atm
Profiteering. Some people here saying inflation here are not entirely correct. Why are companies like BP reporting record profits every year then? Because they can. Forecourts even have the flexibility to set their own prices.
Any time global prices rise our pump prices are inflated more due to tax percentage, duty percentage and of a course an opportunity to increase profits.
One of the main reasons car insurance has sky rocketed is because of EVs. Not that they’re unreliable (because they generally are quite reliable) but when they’re involved in an accident, because of all of the sensors + cameras + other tech, a typical repair bill for an ICE car is far less than an EV.
Insurers end up paying out more for what is essentially the same number of accidents and repairs. They want to maintain their profits, so they jack the price up.
Not when we have seen massive increases in all costs, be it car parts, cars themselves, cost of hire cars, costs of staffing, cost of body shops.
I have no reason to doubt the analysis carried out by EY, it doesn’t show profiteering.
No because they’re paying out more. The people taking your money are car parts manufacturers and distributors, bulk litigation companies, car hire companies and to a degree body shops.
Not to be funny but they've been saying that virtually every year since I started driving 15+ years ago.
One particularly amusing claim I recall back then was an insurer saying 'we only make any money out of our business because we invest the premiums'.
No business on earth would handle that many years of losses and carry on.
Many reasons. Firstly, rocket and feather economics.
Because of how oil is processed, it’s easy for the price to rise but difficult to fall.
Secondly, government complicity. The government makes more money if the price of wholesale fuel goes up, so why on earth would they bother to keep prices low?
Thirdly, houthi attacks in the red sea which force shipping liners to take an additional two-three week detour around Africa, and that adds a lot to shipping costs.
Fourthly, greedy oil companies.
Source: I studied economics, and have a family history of working in the oil industry.
Last chance for the oil companies to extract as much money as possible before we go electric.
Can’t buy premier league clubs and mega yachts by not fleecing people
If you haven’t got a drive, the infrastructure isn’t there, but for anyone who can charge at home the infrastructure has been ready for a couple of years now.
Long distance driving infrastructure isn't there yet and there is little to no investment in this. Haulage and other hvgs all need petrol as do most vans. A majority of new housing stock is flats with no access to charging. No social housing has charging. I did a report on some of the issues recently. The UK due to size and density is probably one of the only countries in the world where switch to electric is actually possible most others don't/won't have the infrastructure due to such long distances of uninhabited land. Still though the UK is no where near being able to and won't be anytime soon. Government need the money from tax on fuel, they can't tax electricity the same way so need a new solution to that.
The investment in long range charging is huge at the moment. Charging hubs are opening every few days. Mfg just announced a 400 million pound investment a couple of weeks ago.
Travelling long distance in the uk in an ev is trivially difficult. I do it regularly
£400m is nothing it cost £45-60 billion for the abandoned leg of HS2 railway by comparison and to make the country suitable for any kind of demand for electric charging once 100% of vehicles adopted would be alot larger than that. The issue then becomes the ongoing maintenance of all these charging hubs. Not to mention all the areas in flood plains, which is a large part of the UK, in these areas EV charging is alot more difficult. As are town centres where space for sufficient charging is an issue as land is so expensive
Sure you driving long distance now might be reasonably easy not if there were 45 million other electric vehicles sharing the few charging points, especially once the used electric car market develops and people with less income are running cars with inefficient batteries due to cost.
So basically anyone in the current gen struggling to buy a house as it is will still be struggling to get away from the predatory practices?
At any rate, that won't change. They will just find a way to do it for electric vehicles.
1. Oil price rose because of attacks on tankers in the Red Sea.
2. UK suppliers are buying in bulk ahead of March 6 budget when fuel duty is expected to rise, and they're passing that cost on to you.
For me this is a massive reason to get an EV. I’m looking forward to the day when demand for oil drops off a cliff and the Saudis/OPEC infinite money glitch expires. If we can get synthetic fuels working that would also be a win.
Price of fuel £1ish. British public, it's not bad this price. Price goes up to £2ish. British public, it's an outrage, why's it so dear? Price goes down to £1.50ish, British public, it's a bargain!
# Petrol Pump/Forecourt owners.
Bunch of c’s
They’re adding to the soaring GREEDFLATION for consumers by charging more than necessary at the pumps.
Petrol & Diesel price cuts are **never** passed onto the consumers. They’re ALL greedy.
Can’t wait for real-time fuel price data.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/real-time-pump-prices-to-drive-down-fuel-costs-for-motorists
Before you downvote, learn to use google. You can see examples of pumps robbing customers despite fuel being cheap.
Around my way, one Sainsbury's are selling unleaded for 137.9 (2p up on last week), another one is selling it at 139.9 (as is an Esso), while Morrisons are scamming customers with 143.9 (the same price as a BP garage a mile away).
I think part of the excuse this time is that some of the oil/fuel tankers are being delayed by the Yemen/Houthi attacks. But it is completely in the oil giants favour to park the ships up and wait for the price to rise anyway....
above this is the official reason below is the real reason. One reason I want to go EV
I switched to an EV in December. Between solar charging, cheap overnight charging, and octopus free electricity sessions, the last 1800 miles have cost me £11.
Solar charging isnt free though, its a massive up front cost....although thinking about it if you got one of those schemes of free using it and any sold goes to the provider I guess it could be free.
My solar/battery is saving me £200 a month on my bills, and is generating another grand or so a year in export. I’ve had it for 16 months and I’ve already recouped 40% of the cost. And that’s not taking into account the cost per mile saving. You may not see it as a positive, but I see it as an overwhelmingly good thing.
Similar here. Got a used EV, solar panels and a battery all on an interest-free loan, so no up-front cost. The whole setup should save me \~£100k over 25 years (!). IMHO people significantly underestimate how lucrative it is and parrot misinformation about the costs without actually checking the numbers themselves.
They do - and to be fair, I’d underestimated the payback time before it went in - I’d calculated it as being around 9 years, where it’ll end up being just under 3. Energy prices don’t seem to be heading back to where they were, be that actual supply costs increasing, or just every step of the supply chain gouging their extra 10% profit, so to have a significant amount of energy security is.. important to me. The cost savings are a bonus. A big bonus at that.
Yeah I think the rule of thumb was always "7-10 years". But that was in the 2000s, and [solar cell prices are down a staggering 60-80%](https://samsetproject.files.wordpress.com/2015/07/fall-in-solar-prices-chart-1.png) since then. They're one of the few things in this world getting cheaper right now. And my payback is looking like 4 years. And yeah, I'm flabbergasted by the UK's energy policy - decomissioning our gas storage, declining planning permission for basically any energy project, escalating the cost of nuclear to the point it'll probably get cancelled like HS2. I hit a bit of a "fuck it, if you want something done right, gotta do it yourself" moment a few years ago and just got the whole lot. IMHO our government should be the ones who look after energy generation, security, resilience etc. But I was getting increasingly uncomfortable with the impact of economic instability on my family and I was fortunate enough to be able to do something about it.
That was exactly my mindset. I don’t trust private corporations to do anything other than “deliver increased shareholder value”, so figured I’d look after my and my family. Long term thinking does not seem to be something government does.. Imagine how much we could reduce reliance on oil if every house had to have 3 or 4 kW of panels, not just the measly one or two panels I see. And that’s before taking battery storage into account..
Yeah I mean there seems to be loads of naivety and conspiratorial thinking (just look at the other posts in this thread), but no-one should be surprised when private, profit-seeking corporations do their thing and make money. People seem to have a weird expectation for them to behave like charities, but the reality is they're gonna do their thing. Your choice is whether you pay their price or try and find an alternative.
The energy prices are down, but the Ofgem price cap still keeps them high for people on capped tariffs. I switched to Octopus Tracker as soon as I learned about this tariff on this sub and my bills dropped by a large chunk. The biggest difference for me is the quadrupling of my electricity standing charges compared to historical averages. This by itself is a larger amount than either gas or electricity on an entire year of Octopus Tracker back testing compared to the best deal that I got in the past decade from a supplier that eventually went bankrupt. I had my calculations thrown off by this market as well. My smart heating system was supposed to break even in about 8 years at gas prices of 2.3p/kWh, but two winters at 7-8p/kWh shaved off 42% of the price that I paid for that system. That's before taking into account that my comfort is either the same or above compared to the system it replaced.
Whenever I do those cost calculators they reckon I should recoup the cost in about 15 years time. What am I doing wrong?
Some of those can be quite out of date. My calculated payback was 9 years, but the reduction in energy bills (£300ish a month, down to £120 a month, and even with that I’m £700 in credit after 9 months with Octopus), and the money made from export speaks for itself - I’ve saved a tonne. I don’t think it would be as beneficial to me without the battery - that’s allowed me to store the solar and use it when convenient, charge when there’s free electricity from the grid, and discharge when they pay top dollar for it - you can’t manipulate the energy prices as easily without a storage medium in between. Last year, from early April (when we had our first day running completely from solar) to the last day in September when we switched to topping the battery up overnight, we imported a total of 13kWh from the grid, and that was just the leakage back and forth from the meter. During summer it generates so much that it pays for my gas usage, the standing charges, AND builds up a honking great credit balance..
What was your install cost?
£10,200 for 4.4kW of panels and a 10kWh battery.
Would you mind disclosing which company? I'm getting all sorts of prices and unsure which companies are reputable enough or not. Some almost seem a little too cheap. Thank you.
I used a local(ish) company to me called Cawoods. They’re an electrical company that had moved into solar a year or so before I bought, but they did a superb job. Prices can be all over the shop for sure, I narrowed it down to three suppliers but the most expensive and cheapest was about ten grand difference… 👀
Thank you, that's good to know :) I had a similar experience wrt the prices. Was looking at 6KW solar panel array and 5 Kwh battery. Cheapest was £7.5K and most expensive was about £20K! In the end I held off as I could be in a more sustainable place with my finances. Something I'm considering in maybe a year again. I might be better going with a larger battery to make the payback time faster with flux vs the normal octopus export rate.
How many panels do you need to get these savings?
12 panels, 370w each peak generation, for a total of 4.44kW peak. Relatively small scale, but it covers all our house usage and then some.
>01011011001 I also have 12 panels and get nowhere near these savings. To export £1000 a year with octopus SEG at 15p kWh I would need to export 6,666kWh which is about double what I actually generate in the whole year. Plus so save £200/month I'd need to generate 630ish kWh(octopus currently charge me 29p/kWh) so that would be another 7560kWh/year For me to generate 14,226 kWh/year I'd need nearly 60 panels (and a much bigger house to put them on) Is there a much better tariff that I should be looking at?
I’m on Flux Export. I get between 25p and 42p per kWh exported depending on time of day. Plus DFS saving sessions are from £1.75 to £4 per kWh. You need to get on Flux! Oh, and go look up Octopus Power-Ups. If you’re in a postcode that supports it you can get 2-4 hour sessions where the imported electricity is completely free. We get about 10-15 of those a month. I use it to charge my battery and car and run everything I can possibly run in the house…
Thanks I'll give Flux a look
So I spent some time looking through the octopus tariffs available and in the summer months I could definitely make an improvement on what I make on my exported power. Not £1000/year but definitely a good increase on the few hundred I currently make. I've logged 11 DFS sessions in the last year (which I think is all of them) but that only nets me a few pound each time. I'm not eligible for for the Powerups in my region, but looking at the data on previous Powerups it's not gonna be netting me big money. What's your method for saving £200/month?
Making me want to run out a plug one onto my roof right now haha!
Are you saving money overall though? EVs aren't cheap.
Yup, got it through a salary sacrifice scheme at work. Sold my old Jag, I’m currently paying about £150 a month less than I was previously.
Ah fair enough. I own my car outright and just can't justify it at the moment.
You’ve got to have the right combination of circumstance for sure - somewhere to charge at home, the right tariff, and even better if you can get free electricity at points. But if your costs are minimal and you own your own car, there’s almost no sensible reason to switch to an EV. Running your existing car until it dissolves is a far more sensible and responsible way to go.
Yeah that's pretty much how I see it at the moment, glad it's working for you though
Yeah EVs purchased privately don't might financial sense because of the huge depreciation (great if buying 1-2 years old, eg Renault zoe for £12k, down from £30k). Leasing might make sense if deal is good, but right now you need salary sac scheme to make the numbers add up.
Second hand. Charge off peak on the drive and do a higher than average mileage but without crazy LEJOG trips that require charging away from home and the EV makes a lot of sense. Our fuel bill is hundreds less each month with our EV.
Brand new EVs are not cheap. But used ones are bargains tbh. 21 plate ev with 140 miles range usable, 15k milage. 8k. In perfect condition. Battery state of charge which I checked is 94%. Costs me 7 quid to charge it to full at home and I'm not even on an EV tariff. That's 21 quid roughly for 420 miles of motoring without road tax and Stella reliability. No maintainamce costs. It's still under 8 years warranty. Cost me 8.5k with some haggling.
What car?
Bought a van. Env200. Converting it to a day camper and easily usable as a daily. But leafs are pretty cheap as well. If u wait, watch all these mg4s, polestar 2and Tesla M3 come down in price. It's about to all completely crash in terms of cost and the market will soon be full of electric vehicles from China which are as well made as anything from Europe like byd. The electric car market is completely exploding because they are much better than ice cars and easier to actually make.
Yup, through salary sac you're getting a £50k EV for effectively a 30-42% discount, more if employer passes on their NI saving, and even more if you're a vat reg Ltd owner who can claim back 50% of the Vat too. It's why you see so many teslas on the road, my model Y is costing me less per month than my 8 year old lexus NX did inc insurance, running costs etc, plus I can still claim 9p per mile for business use even if octopus are paying me to charge my car. Probably got 2-3 years left before this golden goose comes to an end so I'm making the most of it
I get that. But if you own your car outright, I can't see how you'd justify it. If you're already on finance and find a better form of finance/ salary sacrifice then go for it.
Yeah, although if you have a lot of capital tied up in current car it might be worth doing the figures. Guess it depends on mileage too. Do a lot of business miles then EV could make sense, eg £4500 for 10k miles which would alone cover a £300 personal lease payment.
Agree with you on the limited timescale. I can see the government, whoever that is at the time, seeing the reduced income from fuel duty, VAT, etc and deciding to squeeze it a teeny bit here, a tiny bit there..
BIK is already due to start increasing from 2025 to 2028 by 1% a year, labour could bring that forward
Already starting from next year, £165/year road tax, or £520/year for an "expensive" EV (over £40k list price).
Especially on insurance, my dad pays 1500 quid for insurance on a leaf, he has over 2 million miles of experience as well as all the truck licenses and qualifications
£11 is about how much it costs me to get half a charge! (~70 miles)
Oooft, what tariff are you on? Even if I pay to charge overnight it’s only 7.5p/kWh..
I live in a flat, home charging isn't an option for me. I charge at 48 p/kWh with Chargeplace Scotland chargers.
This country has public charging ass backwards. In their determination to recoup their investment cost in as short a period of time as possible it’s put the public charging into a position where it punishes drivers..
Can imagine my face when a week before April last year my chargers have a bit of orange paper on them telling me in 1 week the pricing is going from 25p to 48p, almost doubling waaheeeeeeeeeey. At the current price, which is still lower than any other provider I find publicly except for Shell@Aldi stores it can work out more expensive in winter than petrol on my previous car(0.9 Clio).
But how much is your EV costing a month compared to your presumably fully owned older ICE you had before ? That's what puts me off
My EV lease and charging are costing me about £150 month less than my old lease and fuel. If you own your current car fully then there’s very few arguments for switching, either to an EV or to another ICE.
I’d love to go EV, but they cost too much to insure
I spend about £300 a month on diesel. Im looking at £200 a month on finance (personal loan is usually the cheapest way to buy a car on finance) which leaves £100 for fuel (which I expect to be about £30 on Octopus EV tariff) and insurance.
What about insurance, EVs are insane to insure
When I looked mine would go up £700 per year, so about 10 months worth of the 12 month saving.
Wow
Because their quarterly profits aren’t up on last quarter, and as we all know, everything on this planet revolves around profit over people. So fuck everyone’s wallet, because the sick degenerate millionaires and billionaires need more money.
Same as these fucking billionaires energy providers, all of these sick fucks are braging about how many billions of profit they made this year!! Wohooo fucking great!!! Im happy to help!!
There’s only one way it will change, but people don’t seem to like that option as it involves putting themselves on the line with everyone else. So, they’ll just keep taking as long as we let them get away with it. 🤷🏻♂️ Such a shame we don’t unite anymore in this country.
Because we can't simply unite. People feel breath of threat on their neck's. All of big protest we see in tv are sponsored by big companies/politics etc that's why you can see people with huge nice printed banners, flags, that's why they are so well organised. This picture lands in mass media and it does it job there. But no one can fight with oil/energy providers. Because, government is part of this scam. They were sending people their money from taxes as "pay relief" when they double or triple our bills. They used our own money for that. That stink as fuck from thousand miles! They got us by the balls i am afraid.
Because fuck you British public
The only correct answer.
To understand the laws of speed pricing one must look at the speed of how quickly the price of crude oil is passed down to customers at the forecourt. Unfortunately the laws don’t work in reverse, so when the price drops even by a 10cents it takes somehow 4 weeks to notice the price drop 😂😂😂
Would be nice if the government gave a shit about this instead of posh bickering in commons.
Google BP profits - find answer
And remember that the UK government held a 50% share in BP at one point, but our beloved thatcher decided we didn't need long term wealth. We could've had a sovereign wealth fund.
One option could be introduce revenue tax on firms not 100% UK based, or reduce Corp tax to 10% for wholly owned and based UK firms, with some exceptions for firms key to UK industry, eg Toyota, nissan. Meta can fuck itself. The US and EU will have a shit fit though so wouldn't take off.
And shelll Profits
Rumour has both CEO's are eating out of bins.
Because you'll buy it regardless of the price.
Profiteering
Price of Oil goes up > Price of Fuel goes up. Generally by a 2ish week delay
The piece of Oil goes down, the same amount the price of fuel drops only slightly. So this causes a upwards price trend.
Yes and no. It's the one part of the system that is profiteering and shit. Price goes up, it takes a couple of weeks to affect the pump price. Goes down, and it goes down the same amount, but over a longer period of time, 3-4ish weeks to protect against any volatility. It's going up recently because everyone in US is driving loads "driving season", plus the budget is coming up so fuel is being stockpiled by UK suppliers in case of any tax/duty increases. Add in the Suez canal being avoided by a lot of large shipping companies and we get what's going on atm
Fuel usually goes up quicker than that when oil prices rise, usually within a day or two.
Profiteering. Some people here saying inflation here are not entirely correct. Why are companies like BP reporting record profits every year then? Because they can. Forecourts even have the flexibility to set their own prices.
Any time global prices rise our pump prices are inflated more due to tax percentage, duty percentage and of a course an opportunity to increase profits.
cos the oil companies are greedy c\*\*\*s who will use any excuse to raise prices.
The same reason car insurance has rocketed? Profiteering.
Do the Martin Lewis 21 day before trick. Last year I paid 348. Renewal 568... had a we shop around on the 21 day before mark £281 with breakdown.
One of the main reasons car insurance has sky rocketed is because of EVs. Not that they’re unreliable (because they generally are quite reliable) but when they’re involved in an accident, because of all of the sensors + cameras + other tech, a typical repair bill for an ICE car is far less than an EV. Insurers end up paying out more for what is essentially the same number of accidents and repairs. They want to maintain their profits, so they jack the price up.
Car insurers are not making big profits https://www.ey.com/en_uk/news/2023/12/ey-s-latest-uk-motor-insurance-results
The cost of my insurance has gone up £400 for the cheapest this year, up from £200 extra last year. A £600 increase in 2 years isnt profiteering?
Not when we have seen massive increases in all costs, be it car parts, cars themselves, cost of hire cars, costs of staffing, cost of body shops. I have no reason to doubt the analysis carried out by EY, it doesn’t show profiteering.
No because they’re paying out more. The people taking your money are car parts manufacturers and distributors, bulk litigation companies, car hire companies and to a degree body shops.
So up from £300 to £900 in two years? No way for such an increase. 20% at most but not that much.
Not to be funny but they've been saying that virtually every year since I started driving 15+ years ago. One particularly amusing claim I recall back then was an insurer saying 'we only make any money out of our business because we invest the premiums'. No business on earth would handle that many years of losses and carry on.
Many reasons. Firstly, rocket and feather economics. Because of how oil is processed, it’s easy for the price to rise but difficult to fall. Secondly, government complicity. The government makes more money if the price of wholesale fuel goes up, so why on earth would they bother to keep prices low? Thirdly, houthi attacks in the red sea which force shipping liners to take an additional two-three week detour around Africa, and that adds a lot to shipping costs. Fourthly, greedy oil companies. Source: I studied economics, and have a family history of working in the oil industry.
Last chance for the oil companies to extract as much money as possible before we go electric. Can’t buy premier league clubs and mega yachts by not fleecing people
We will not be going electric anytime soon the infrastructure is shite but you are right about extracting money!
If you haven’t got a drive, the infrastructure isn’t there, but for anyone who can charge at home the infrastructure has been ready for a couple of years now.
Long distance driving infrastructure isn't there yet and there is little to no investment in this. Haulage and other hvgs all need petrol as do most vans. A majority of new housing stock is flats with no access to charging. No social housing has charging. I did a report on some of the issues recently. The UK due to size and density is probably one of the only countries in the world where switch to electric is actually possible most others don't/won't have the infrastructure due to such long distances of uninhabited land. Still though the UK is no where near being able to and won't be anytime soon. Government need the money from tax on fuel, they can't tax electricity the same way so need a new solution to that.
The investment in long range charging is huge at the moment. Charging hubs are opening every few days. Mfg just announced a 400 million pound investment a couple of weeks ago. Travelling long distance in the uk in an ev is trivially difficult. I do it regularly
£400m is nothing it cost £45-60 billion for the abandoned leg of HS2 railway by comparison and to make the country suitable for any kind of demand for electric charging once 100% of vehicles adopted would be alot larger than that. The issue then becomes the ongoing maintenance of all these charging hubs. Not to mention all the areas in flood plains, which is a large part of the UK, in these areas EV charging is alot more difficult. As are town centres where space for sufficient charging is an issue as land is so expensive Sure you driving long distance now might be reasonably easy not if there were 45 million other electric vehicles sharing the few charging points, especially once the used electric car market develops and people with less income are running cars with inefficient batteries due to cost.
So basically anyone in the current gen struggling to buy a house as it is will still be struggling to get away from the predatory practices? At any rate, that won't change. They will just find a way to do it for electric vehicles.
Lamp post charging will become more of a thing, but it’s no where near as good as having your own private charger at home
Because they wanted to make a bit more money and us plebs can either pay up or become bus wankers.
Capitalism.
1. Oil price rose because of attacks on tankers in the Red Sea. 2. UK suppliers are buying in bulk ahead of March 6 budget when fuel duty is expected to rise, and they're passing that cost on to you.
Greed. It's the answer to most questions when you get down to the actual cause.
Look up the definition of a cartel business.... That's fuel. Don't like the price you're paying for fuel. Ok then instead go buy it at.....er!.....er!
Because what are you going to do, drive less? Buy an EV?
Because it can and always will. Instead of sending your money to Saudi's why not get an EV.
For me this is a massive reason to get an EV. I’m looking forward to the day when demand for oil drops off a cliff and the Saudis/OPEC infinite money glitch expires. If we can get synthetic fuels working that would also be a win.
And why is sending money to China or Elon a better choice?
UK could be self sufficient with renewable energy for fuel. You have a choice which EV you buy. We have no choice where we get oil from
Price of fuel £1ish. British public, it's not bad this price. Price goes up to £2ish. British public, it's an outrage, why's it so dear? Price goes down to £1.50ish, British public, it's a bargain!
# Petrol Pump/Forecourt owners. Bunch of c’s They’re adding to the soaring GREEDFLATION for consumers by charging more than necessary at the pumps. Petrol & Diesel price cuts are **never** passed onto the consumers. They’re ALL greedy. Can’t wait for real-time fuel price data. https://www.gov.uk/government/news/real-time-pump-prices-to-drive-down-fuel-costs-for-motorists Before you downvote, learn to use google. You can see examples of pumps robbing customers despite fuel being cheap.
It pro ably went down by 2p a few days ago
Budget coming up, price always rises to dissuade government from putting tax up again.
Because 11p would just be greedy!
Hasn’t at the Costco near me. HTH.
Because fuck you that’s why.
Around my way, one Sainsbury's are selling unleaded for 137.9 (2p up on last week), another one is selling it at 139.9 (as is an Esso), while Morrisons are scamming customers with 143.9 (the same price as a BP garage a mile away).
The wind has change direction.
Umm, recession, King’s illness, spring, wind direction changed - take your pick. They’ll use anything as an excuse to raise prices. 🤷🏻♀️
Coz they can. They need to keep the shareholders happy making billions of profit every year.
Crude oil prices have risen