Makar is definitely better than Josi, but at the end of the day, like Ricky Bobby said, “if you’re not first, you’re last”
No one cares who finishes 2nd or below
> He isn’t getting in the HHoF on the shoulders of a 2nd or 3rd place finalist nomination though.
You're absolutely right. That said, he's already very likely met the criteria for induction, and he has several prime years left.
Lmao, who’s going to devalue Cale because he came in 3rd in the Norris voting one year? Y’all have some WILD takes sometimes…
By your logic he’s already washed since this is his second third place ranking.
Hughes deserved it, Nashville went on an incredible run to make the playoffs. I don't disagree with the voting. Any team is still taking Cale to start a franchise out of the 3 though
I think Hughes deserved it in the same way Mack deserved the Hart. Honestly, Kuch and McDavid both had stellar cases to win the MVP. But they've both won it, and Mack never has. Same argument can be said for Makar. My personal opinion is Makar STILL had a better season offensively (more goals and higher ppg) and deserved more credit for his PK minutes over Hughes. But Hughes never won it... Makar has won both a Norris and Conn Smythe. Let the man have his hardware...
Also, frankly, Makar got burned a lot last year on defense. He had a "down year". Pretty sure Hughes was more consistent in both categories, so whatever. Let the Nucks fans have there fun!
I feel like the Norris goes to the “next guy due” almost every year. It also seems that it goes to the most productive DMan too. I don’t watch many Canuck games so I can’t really say how much better Hughes was than Makar. Cale had a great season, but so did Hughes. He didn’t get snubbed by any means. The canucks were a really good team, much better than predicted, so that probably helped him in a big way.
Love me some maker but Hughes was really good also. It’s really hard to pick one guy every year and usually they like the new guy unless the previous winner is wildly better.
I mean your talking numbers but a big one is Hughes advanced stats without their top players was better while canucks tops player advanced stats without him were worse..
Makar on the other hand was worse without Mack and Mikko while those two were better without him advanced stats wise..
There is a reason advanced stats guys like Dom had him ranked like 9th or something.
Yeah, there were definitely times this past season that Makar struggled and looked hurt, even when playing. Hopefully he will shake it off and return to be his usual dominant self.
I don't think this is the year to die on a hill, Makar was just OK in his own end this year, his points were great but he definitely had an off year. QH deserves this one, and Makar will be right back to being the consensus forerunner next season, as he should be.
lol, who gets mad about this stupid shit? Did you watch the awards show? It looked like they were all depressed and maybe hungover? I think the players only give a fuck about one trophy and it was the one bobrovsky had. Cale is way better than either of the other two anyway.
That's irrelevant... That's what the HART is for. Norris is best defenseman. Makar's offensive stats were barely lower than Hughes, his defensive numbers were superior to both.
I'm not mad Hughes won. Either him or Makar and nobody would have argued... Both had great years. But 3rd?
I love Cale but he had an off year on the defensive end of the ice. I’m totally ok with a Hughes Norris. He deserved it, and if not this year, then when?
I barely paid attention to the Preds this year so I can’t comment on Josi. But Cale didn’t have a good year by his (crazy high) standards.
Eh, going on defense, no he didn't deserve it over Makar. Going on offense, Makar paced him all year while playing less games and playing on a team with far more talent which means less opportunities with the puck for him. When a player has a down year and still keeps up with a player who is having the season of his career that he could never actually hope to repeat, the award definitely belongs to the former, not the latter
Yes and like I said I don't really have a problem with Hughes winning. He had a very good year. But let's be fair my car. If he played the same number of minutes on the power play and five on five he would have blown Hughes out of the water. Kale played an extra six games worth of penalty kill time compared to Hughes while at the same time playing five games overall less. Those are the deep metrics that I dove into because it's what I do for a living. So I can't help myself. I just don't understand how any Rider puts him in third place?
Yeah, 3rd place was a head-scratcher. Quinn did have Cale beat in regards to many defensive analytics as well as puck possession, so I'm not surprised he got the nod over Cale. But Josi getting 2nd place? I can only guess that's because he played a major role in that monster point streak Nashville had that catapulted them from a bottom-middle team to a playoff team nobody wanted to draw in round 1.
I just don’t understand how you can win the best defensive player of the year award and not play the penalty kill, am I alone in thinking that’s atleast a little crazy?
Ok so you understand what my beef was. Hughes had a great season and nobody is taking that away but the Canucks don't even trust him on the PK... To me that says he is a weak defender when. He has to defend against an opponents top 5 players.
Thats was a joke. He was the most deserving this year statistically speaking, ppg. But since he is so good and clearly the superior talent they decided to gift it to quinn thinking Makar will win many more
It doesn't really matter. You either win the trophy or it doesn't really matter where you landed in voting.
Makar is definitely better than Josi, but at the end of the day, like Ricky Bobby said, “if you’re not first, you’re last” No one cares who finishes 2nd or below
2nd or 3rd both wind up as a "X trophy finalist" statistic on a HHoF resume, which Cale will undoubtedly have.
Sure, no one’s arguing against that. He isn’t getting in the HHoF on the shoulders of a 2nd or 3rd place finalist nomination though.
> He isn’t getting in the HHoF on the shoulders of a 2nd or 3rd place finalist nomination though. You're absolutely right. That said, he's already very likely met the criteria for induction, and he has several prime years left.
Not true. Being considered one of the elite players at your position matters when it comes evaluating a player’s career.
Lmao, who’s going to devalue Cale because he came in 3rd in the Norris voting one year? Y’all have some WILD takes sometimes… By your logic he’s already washed since this is his second third place ranking.
I’m actually saying the opposite. Finishing as a finalist, despite not winning, is a big deal.
Hughes deserved it, Nashville went on an incredible run to make the playoffs. I don't disagree with the voting. Any team is still taking Cale to start a franchise out of the 3 though
I think Hughes deserved it in the same way Mack deserved the Hart. Honestly, Kuch and McDavid both had stellar cases to win the MVP. But they've both won it, and Mack never has. Same argument can be said for Makar. My personal opinion is Makar STILL had a better season offensively (more goals and higher ppg) and deserved more credit for his PK minutes over Hughes. But Hughes never won it... Makar has won both a Norris and Conn Smythe. Let the man have his hardware... Also, frankly, Makar got burned a lot last year on defense. He had a "down year". Pretty sure Hughes was more consistent in both categories, so whatever. Let the Nucks fans have there fun!
I feel like the Norris goes to the “next guy due” almost every year. It also seems that it goes to the most productive DMan too. I don’t watch many Canuck games so I can’t really say how much better Hughes was than Makar. Cale had a great season, but so did Hughes. He didn’t get snubbed by any means. The canucks were a really good team, much better than predicted, so that probably helped him in a big way.
Love me some maker but Hughes was really good also. It’s really hard to pick one guy every year and usually they like the new guy unless the previous winner is wildly better.
He was good enough that the voting gap was the largest since giordano won.
I live in Vancouver and watch a lot of Canucks games, Quinn absolutely deserved it this year. There wasn't a doubt in my mind who was going to win it
I had some doubt seeing that Hughes was never on the ice for short handed situations where you would think your best defenseman should be helping.
Yeah, Hughes was great. Makar is always great, so completely agree with your assessment.
I mean your talking numbers but a big one is Hughes advanced stats without their top players was better while canucks tops player advanced stats without him were worse.. Makar on the other hand was worse without Mack and Mikko while those two were better without him advanced stats wise.. There is a reason advanced stats guys like Dom had him ranked like 9th or something.
Yeah, there were definitely times this past season that Makar struggled and looked hurt, even when playing. Hopefully he will shake it off and return to be his usual dominant self.
I don't think this is the year to die on a hill, Makar was just OK in his own end this year, his points were great but he definitely had an off year. QH deserves this one, and Makar will be right back to being the consensus forerunner next season, as he should be.
lol, who gets mad about this stupid shit? Did you watch the awards show? It looked like they were all depressed and maybe hungover? I think the players only give a fuck about one trophy and it was the one bobrovsky had. Cale is way better than either of the other two anyway.
How are we making fun of lightning fans for being salty, and then we post this?
probably because josi and Hughes's teams weren't suppose to be playoff team this year. and nate and mikko exist.
That’s irrelevant for Norris
That's irrelevant... That's what the HART is for. Norris is best defenseman. Makar's offensive stats were barely lower than Hughes, his defensive numbers were superior to both. I'm not mad Hughes won. Either him or Makar and nobody would have argued... Both had great years. But 3rd?
yeah it's stupid makar is better than josi.
I love Avs and Nucks and I'd take Makar over Quinn but no doubt Quinn had a better year. The analytics easily prove it.
No biggie. Dude is still the cream of the crop at his position, so I don’t sweat it too much.
I love Cale but he had an off year on the defensive end of the ice. I’m totally ok with a Hughes Norris. He deserved it, and if not this year, then when? I barely paid attention to the Preds this year so I can’t comment on Josi. But Cale didn’t have a good year by his (crazy high) standards.
Hughes deserved the Norris this year, but when playoffs came around it was clear again who the better player is…. *its cale*
Eh, going on defense, no he didn't deserve it over Makar. Going on offense, Makar paced him all year while playing less games and playing on a team with far more talent which means less opportunities with the puck for him. When a player has a down year and still keeps up with a player who is having the season of his career that he could never actually hope to repeat, the award definitely belongs to the former, not the latter
Yes and like I said I don't really have a problem with Hughes winning. He had a very good year. But let's be fair my car. If he played the same number of minutes on the power play and five on five he would have blown Hughes out of the water. Kale played an extra six games worth of penalty kill time compared to Hughes while at the same time playing five games overall less. Those are the deep metrics that I dove into because it's what I do for a living. So I can't help myself. I just don't understand how any Rider puts him in third place?
Yeah, 3rd place was a head-scratcher. Quinn did have Cale beat in regards to many defensive analytics as well as puck possession, so I'm not surprised he got the nod over Cale. But Josi getting 2nd place? I can only guess that's because he played a major role in that monster point streak Nashville had that catapulted them from a bottom-middle team to a playoff team nobody wanted to draw in round 1.
If you ain’t first, you’re last
A league where there is a clear "worlds best", even if its true, is boring. And the league needs the drama for the interest.
I just don’t understand how you can win the best defensive player of the year award and not play the penalty kill, am I alone in thinking that’s atleast a little crazy?
Ok so you understand what my beef was. Hughes had a great season and nobody is taking that away but the Canucks don't even trust him on the PK... To me that says he is a weak defender when. He has to defend against an opponents top 5 players.
Yeah this was not the year to beat the drum for Makar. By plenty of metrics he wasn’t top 3 anyway
Completely unrelated, but Mack said he voted for Cale for the Ted Lindsay. If the league MVP thinks Cale is the actual MVP, that says a lot.
Ya I thought it would be a lot closer! They obviously don’t watch him!
Those results make me think that most people just vote based on total points. It also makes me wish there was a Ted Lindsay for defensemen.
You could win the Ted as a d man
Let me clarify. I wish there was an award given to the player voted as the best dman by the players. I'd be curious to know what the players think.
He shoulda won but, Canadian media bias and all.
They give it to different people each year out of pity most awards make no sense
Thats was a joke. He was the most deserving this year statistically speaking, ppg. But since he is so good and clearly the superior talent they decided to gift it to quinn thinking Makar will win many more