She was originally employed under the last Labor government, so it’s hard to see how she has loyalty to the LNP that are clearly setting her up as the scapegoat.
It’s hard to tell whether she is complicit, mind-bogglingly naive, or compromised in some way.
Any remotely rational person would be saving themselves by now and telling the full story to the news
Oooo, maybe she’ll write a tell all book like all the people in the trump White House. “This is what I could have done or would have done if I had principals. Can you believe what I had to put up with?”
This.
The CHO is a bipartisan position. The LNP is way out of line for overcontrolling her. But she does have a responsibility to stand her ground. I don't know if I'd call her incompetent but she's definitely a coward.
The minister is still her boss, and I imagine she is paid enough that she would be award/agreement free and could basically be sacked with a few week's notice.
once she accepted a role for a government organisation, she made a deal with the devil.
sometimes known as a Faustian deal, she knew what she was getting into.
I totally agree.
Remember just before the lockdown and Gladys being Gladys, refused to use the word "lockdown" in the presser? Not unexpected, a typical stupid politician thing to do. What made my spidey senses tingle was seeing Chant do exactly the same thing, refused to say the word when asked. She was acting like a politician, not someone whos responsible exclusivley for the health of the people in NSW. She can go under the bus for all I care, she chose to back a premier, not the people of the state.
Brad and Bin Chicken will be right behind her if theres any justice in the world
She also may have been susceptible to hubris after being referred to as ‘the gold standard’.
I remember her saying early on ‘3 day lockdown don’t work’ she made this statement unequivocally. In hindsight How we wish we had a 3 day circuit breaker from the fist case.
I don't really understand your logic. Chant's job is to provide advice. The politicians that ignored it and then prevented her clarifying when she provided this advice to them are the problem.
Brad Hazzard is the person you should be targeting here. Blaming Chant only serves to absolve him of the blame he deserves.
The Premier has stated from the outset that her government has always followed the health advice, she is the leader of the state and the buck stops with her.
That said, Chant is a medical doctor and took the oath, so if her advice was given and ignored she was bound to make that public knowledge which she has failed to do.
It's been a litany of failure from day two when they discovered that they were dealing with the Delta variant, and Chant is either complicit or incompetent.
Man she could do it on background, just leak if you were worried so the journos could hold them to account at press conferences. Made Dan changes heaps of positions
You have to factor in that in Victoria the legal power behind the restrictions sits with Sutton and in NSW it sits with Hazzard, so Sutton has much more leverage than Chant.
He also has more responsibility but it seems to sit well with him.
She may not be an expert in doing those things and if she gets caught, she could get prosecuted, furthermore, her employment prospects will be severely limited.
Yes, maybe. But I wonder if there are any whistleblower protections? In any event, all speculation.
However, it is my opinion her employment prospects may be limited anyway? Unfortunately for these guys, all of a sudden everyone knows their name, what happens to her if they throw her under the bus? Or even if they do not?
> However, it is my opinion her employment prospects may be limited anyway?
I disagree. Many employers would be keen on someone with the clout and yet have "loyalty" to her employer. To some circles, it is somewhat seen as "professional" to continue providing advice and not go over the command structure should that advice be ignored. No one wants someone working under them who would knife them in the back if their opinions differ.
On the other hand, if Hazzard and Gladys have been ignoring health advice in favour of business interests, one can be in a difficult situation especially if it results in deaths. It's not a good situation to be in.
Even if she does go out and resign or expose it, people will forget after a time and she will be the one to pick up the pieces of her life and career. Whereas if she simply keep giving advice though have it ignore, if that is the case, people will still eventually forget and at least she could still have a career.
this. people saying she's 'complicit' for not speaking up don't understand how these institutions work. whistleblowers have their lives destroyed. if she were to somehow announce to the media that she didn't agree with the way the government was handling things, she'd be pilloried for destabilising the government. she isn't in a political position, and so she'd cop a *lot* of shit for criticising the government, and as you say she'd be criticised for knifing her employer in the back. also, Gladys' position is dicey and any comment from Chant might inadvertently cause a backlash from the more pro-lockdown members of the party.
i don't know what people expect her to do--leap in front of Gladys and go rogue during the press conference? she's being criticised for not speaking up, but how exactly do you expect that to happen?
when people criticise Chant, they're placing the blame exactly where the libs want it to be.
she's had 6 weeks + worth of press conferences during an out of control outbreak to refute the claims that her advice is being ignored. She at best has aluded to vague instances of possibly having recommended specific alternate restrictions that were not adopted. She for the most part either provided this shithouse advice, or signed off on it willingly
my logic is she supports to false narrative. Like why didn't SHE call it a lockdown if Gladys didn't. Why is she focussing on vaccines instead of suppression. Again in the press conferences she is just repeating Gladys spin rather than reporting truthfully. Its not ONLY her fault but her job is very different to Gladys or Brad and I don't think she is executing her role
This is the same mistake naive people make regarding HR. The mistake is understanding what her job is.
Her job SHOULD be about health matters that affect the state. What her actual job is to tow the party line. Probably likely due to Brad Hazzard being her superior pushing her down that path & her either being too weak or caring too much about her job to not step up or just quit.
I don't think she's incompetent. She's complicit.
Did you watch the whole video or just the highlight reel? Because the way she gave her answers was deliberately obtuse, dancing around simple questions and generally being completely unhelpful.
I think it's a fair to say she had gone into dark grey areas of the code of practice, and has knowingly used her role to give public support to wrong medical decisions.
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Her speaking out to the media if the NSW govt is ignoring her advice isn't how being a public servant in Australia works. She'd be sacked immediately and do people honestly think the LNP would then appoint someone who isn't just going to give advice they want to hear?
She is in an awful position because she's being made a scapegoat for the LNP NSW govt's failings. She's a doctor / bureaucrat and not a political player so she's just doing the job she has.
Considering she's a senior public servant, she probably isn't planning on going back to actual practice any time soon and wants to remain a public servant. Speaking out would do those prospects far more harm. Whistleblowers aren't treated well at all in Australia.
Her responsibility is to give the government advice. Its the government's responsibility to implement that. The blame is with the government, not Kerry Chant.
In NSW the CHO does not write the directions, its the politicians. All Chant does is advise.
In other states the CHO writes the directions. They have the force of law & are enforced by police:
https://www.health.qld.gov.au/system-governance/legislation/cho-public-health-directions-under-expanded-public-health-act-powers
Blaming the chief health officer is not helpful. It's clear that she has provided advice and has been ignored, but it's not her job to decide policy. If she speaks up publicly, she gets sacked and replaced with someone whose advice is more friendly to the government. I guarantee she has been speaking up in the crisis cabinet.
Save the hate for Berejiklian and Hazzard, and the rest of the useless pricks that have politicised every step of this process.
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I think she drank the “golf standard” cool-aid. She thought that she could continue to beat it. I also think this was a problem with some of the population (sorry guys). When all you have heard for 18 months is you don’t need a lockdown, you would start to believe it.
Maybe it was her arrogance too?
Yes but ultimate responsibility is with Gladys. I doubt anything will stick but in an ideal world leaders take ultimate responsibility and is why they get paid so much for the top job. Unfortunately everything I've witnessed in this country has been the opposite and usually lower level staff get thrown under the bus as the fall person for what ultimately should be on the shoulders of the leader.
The biggest question I have at this point is who will replace her if it turns out she's been complicit or incompetent as postulated?
Are we sure it's not going to go from bad to worse for NSW?
What if someone even worse is installed in her place?
I ask because I have no idea.
EDIT: I don't even know if this is beside the point at this stage. What an awful mess. I just feel bad for the people of NSW.
Chant should resign, to salvage her reputation. She may not want to dump that on her deputy, but at her level her best way to control the situation is to jump.
The Minister is responsible under the NSW legislation. In other states, the Minister is removed from the design of restrictions, just signing off on them in the cabinet. NSW is unique in having the Minister being solely responsible for the restrictions that the implemented.
I think she has provided advice that hasn't been followed, both her and Hazzard claimed the advice was Cabinet confidentiality so they couldn't say what it was, obviously if they had followed the advice they wouldn't have a problem saying that. It allows Gladys to lie and say she follows the health advice because she can't be contradicted by evidence. I still think there is a faction of Hazzard, Barilaro, Perretet and another that are running the agenda, the cabinet decisions apparently go 4 to 3 so there are 2 factions in cabinet.
Please don't jump to conclusions, I understand your fustration, but I have to let you know you're incorrect.
NSW is unique to other states. Under the Public Health Act 2010 in NSW, the Health Minister makes public health orders.
Other states, that responsibility lies with the Chief Health Officer.
As others have stated, in NSW, the Chief Health Officer's position is for the provision of advice. Unfortunately the blame lies entirely with Brad Hazzard, a politician who has proven himself unworthy for the task.
Any questions, please let me know.
yes but Kerry is given a platform everyday to air her views. If she didn't "toe the party line", she could have just plainly state her views in the press conference and say, "I have given my recommendation to do a hard lockdown but the Health Minister & the premier has the ultimate decision.".
That simple act alone would have easily shift the spotlight to both Hazzard and Gladys to do the right thing. If she, as CHO, stood her ground and said this is the health advice from my team, it will be plainly obvious that Gladys is not following what's right and wouldn't have the excuse of hiding behind the "i follow the best health advice" in every sentence.
So I don't buy that she doesn't have any responsibility in NSW since _she is given a platform at the press conference everyday to air her views_ but has instead, decided to be vague and play along.
Now whether she did it on her own accord or brad has bullied her (judging from the inquiry, i am not surprised!) but in all honesty, that comes with the position/title, right? Like I wouldn't be the CFO of a company and not do my job properly in highlighting accounting, budget issues, etc regardless if the CEO is berating me for not having enough money to spend.
I don't believe she would have taken this job if she could predict how political her role may have become. Prior to this, politics would have been an after thought for her. How often are you on National TV with the limelight on you, and have to say something extremely controversial that will negatively impact your life in many ways and likely cause you several mental health issues.
So yeah, it doesn't come with the position. It does in other states however. She is performing her job, however the Health Minister has the final say in NSW. Direct your fustration towards him.
I guess the challenge is, in the corporate world for instance, do you expect an underling to speak out against their employer at a meeting?
I think what she should have done was quit at the crucial point where they didn't listen to her and spoken out. There's plenty of other capable people in Health I'm sure (McNulty), Chant would be listened to as a private citizen, and it'd put even more pressure on the NSW government. Perhaps she's under a wild NDA and been threatened with serious punishment if she speaks of crisis cabinet meeting events and/or Health's decisions generally.
> I guess the challenge is, in the corporate world for instance, do you expect an underling to speak out against their employer at a meeting?
Well, I've actually worked in management positions for both government and private enterprises - I would ABSOLUTELY expect an underling to speak out if there are any shenanigans since the last thing I want are people hiding things under the rug. Even more so if that underling is a VP/Director or a manger of people, which is basically the point of a good middle manager. If I was an underling myself, I will stand my ground if I've been told otherwise to sweep everything under the rug. It comes down to principles and covering-your-arse so if this happens in the corporate world, I am not gonna be the one being pointed a finger at when things go wrong, regardless of what my position is.
> Perhaps she's under a wild NDA and been threatened with serious punishment if she speaks of crisis cabinet meeting events and/or Health's decisions generally.
That's a fair point but again, I don't buy that she has no options at all. We are talking about the government and not a private enterprise so why will there be repercussions on releasing public knowledge, especially when she is told to do so under duress? Even quitting from her position is enough to make enough of a statement that "the NSW CHO has quit because Gladys/Hazzard refuses to listen to their advice and causing the issues now at NSW".
Speak out against your boss outside your dept/org? If you say so! I'll defer to your obvious experience (sounds sarcastic but I'm being sincere)
I'm pretty shocked there hasn't been any leaks about it, even from people below Chant of which there are an entire organisational pyramid full of people. Right? People are that intimidated by Hazzard perhaps?
> Even quitting from her position is enough to make enough of a statement that "the NSW CHO has quit because Gladys/Hazzard refuses to listen to their advice and causing the issues now at NSW".
Agree and I would consider that it's never too late. The deed is done. Though maybe the argument is that her successor is worse? They're more aligned with business needs?
Seriously thanks for your insight
No worries and I agree with your last point!
> Speak out against your boss outside your dept/org? If you say so! I'll defer to your obvious experience (sounds sarcastic but I'm being sincere)
Nah mate, totally understand and I know it sounds counterintuitive but if my boss is going against what I told him including hiding behind statements such as "I am following the best advice from Kinkora", I would absolutely make it clear to everyone that is not the case. Obviously not in a way where you are slinging insults or throwing said boss under the bus but one will be straddling the line between telling the truth and distancing yourself from your boss. There is an art of playing politics at that level and trust me on this, you will get a reputation. Personally, it has never hurt my career prospects and if anything, I got praised for being forthright and speaking out! Which is funny enough, how I went from a position in the government -> private enterprise but I am digressing from the point of this thread. :)
(p.s. you can see my comment history - i was in the government during the labor to liberal transition so politics was absolutely something you have to know how to navigate)
> Nah mate, totally understand and I know it sounds counterintuitive but if my boss is going against what I told him including hiding behind statements such as "I am following the best advice from Kinkora", I would absolutely make it clear to everyone that is not the case.
Excellent excellent point. I see your perspective now.
> (p.s. you can see my comment history - i was in the government during the labor to liberal transition so politics was absolutely something you have to know how to navigate)
I bet! We're lucky to have your insight here.
I don't think it's as easy as that. If she were to publicly speak out against the government, what impression would that leave on the people of NSW? It'd be "No-one knows what we're doing, I'm really confused, I suppose I'll just live as normal" or something. Some idea of clarity and confidence is important, and I'm assuming Chant is doing what she can with what she's given to work off. The way Hazzard was cutting her off at the inquiry yesterday might indicate a tenuous relationship behind closed doors.
Whether or not this is justified, responsibility falling on Chant certainly is convenient for Gladys. It's not like you guys can vote for against Chant so please remain as rational and pragmatic as you can over there, at least until the next election.
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She was asked in yesterday's parliamentary inquiry and said NSW locked down the day she formally told them to.
Maybe she raised it and was talked out of it earlier. Who knows given the dynamic we saw yesterday.....
While is think you are probably right, i think the following is also a possibility :
The nsw libs wanted no lockdown. She talked them into what they have now. They have got her to toe the line by saying if she contradicts them they will cancel the lockdown. She is satying despite being compromised because she thinks its better that she is there to do something rather than not there and let Hazzard and Perrotet have their way.
She is the only state CHO that does **NOT** have total authority during the pandemic crisis. She can't do anything because the Liberal government won't let her do anything. All she can do is make recommendations, then watch them be ignored.
I don't live in NSW thank god. I am vaccinated but being vaccinated isn't actually going to shift numbers any time soon. Its at least two months until you get both vaccines and give it time to be most effective
Other measures need to happen first
Some of the LGA in Sydney which were bad last week are actually getting their numbers down. I think we are in a better place because we can vaccinate but in the mean time stay at home. Dan was able to achieve it and I know it hurt but he got the numbers down just with isolation.
So by your measure Brett Sutton was incompetent or complicit in causing Victoria’s second wave last year?
Or perhaps it’s possible that with a novel and evolving virus, that good public health officials don’t always get things 100% right all the time. With severe consequences in the case of the Victorian and NSW outbreaks.
Why do so with Brett?
Comparing an outbreak at the beginning of a pandemic to one 18 months later with learnings from all over the country are two very different scenarios. Brett made mistakes of course but he didn’t have hindsight. Kerry does!
To be clear, I don’t think either Brett Sutton or Kerry Chant are incompetent or complicit.
NSW had a great track record of suppressing Covid prior to Delta. They underestimated Delta for sure and they were too slow to change tack from the methods that worked with other variants.
It’s not accurate to say Dr Chant had the benefit of hindsight when it came to Delta. Delta had been around prior to the Sydney outbreak for roughly the same time as Covid had been around prior to the Victorian second wave.
Not saying the situations are identical, but I think we can be a bit more generous in our assessment of our public health officials as they make extremely difficult decisions.
That’s not accurate. The India travel ban occurred before Delta was identified as a Variant of Concern.
The driving force was the high rate of infections in India and the number of returned travellers from India testing positive in HQ. There was no discussion of Delta being a factor at the time - most of it was around whether banning India was reasonable given cases had previously been higher in the US and UK.
Delta has not been around for 18 months. If anything she’s guilty of leaning too heavily on the lessons learnt from other variants during the preceding 18 months, which could be more easily controlled without lockdowns.
She has a responsibility to the health of the people of nsw, not toeing the company line.
She was originally employed under the last Labor government, so it’s hard to see how she has loyalty to the LNP that are clearly setting her up as the scapegoat. It’s hard to tell whether she is complicit, mind-bogglingly naive, or compromised in some way. Any remotely rational person would be saving themselves by now and telling the full story to the news
Oooo, maybe she’ll write a tell all book like all the people in the trump White House. “This is what I could have done or would have done if I had principals. Can you believe what I had to put up with?”
Fucking brutal, I love it Ngl I loved those books. Made for some great interpersonal drama with more than a touch of surrealism
Those books further reinforce the idea of how those from the top are really living in a completely different reality.
She's turning into the Australian version of Nils Anders Tegnell.
This. The CHO is a bipartisan position. The LNP is way out of line for overcontrolling her. But she does have a responsibility to stand her ground. I don't know if I'd call her incompetent but she's definitely a coward.
>It’s hard to tell whether she is complicit, mind-bogglingly naive, or compromised in some way. I"m going to go with simply *out of her depth.*
Like all these mates getting ambassadorships and the like. Fine when its seen/is non-critical but when the shit hit the fan....
My guess is they have already set her up with a very cushy next job if she cooperates. Like how the QLD CHO will be their next governor.
Yep that’s the “compromised” I was referring to. I somehow doubt they’d be able to record her getting a golden shower.
Governor? Where the fuck do you come from?
I'm from Australia. Where the fuck do you come from? https://www.govhouse.qld.gov.au/the-governor-of-queensland/about-the-governor.aspx
Oh I'm sorry, I THOUGHT THIS WAS **AMERICA** \- HarbingerOfGachaHell
Tell you what this whole pandemic response could do with a bit of tegridy. Or I could do with a bit of Christmas snow.
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Governors (American) and Governor-Generals are two completely different roles.
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Yes. I'm just being pedantic.
Posts like this explain why the LNP get elected.
Maybe there's a promise of a plum job in 6 months somewhere quiet and out of the spotlight if she takes the fall?
The minister is still her boss, and I imagine she is paid enough that she would be award/agreement free and could basically be sacked with a few week's notice.
once she accepted a role for a government organisation, she made a deal with the devil. sometimes known as a Faustian deal, she knew what she was getting into.
I totally agree. Remember just before the lockdown and Gladys being Gladys, refused to use the word "lockdown" in the presser? Not unexpected, a typical stupid politician thing to do. What made my spidey senses tingle was seeing Chant do exactly the same thing, refused to say the word when asked. She was acting like a politician, not someone whos responsible exclusivley for the health of the people in NSW. She can go under the bus for all I care, she chose to back a premier, not the people of the state. Brad and Bin Chicken will be right behind her if theres any justice in the world
It feels wrong for a doctor, under a Hippocratic oath to take, to choose spin over saving lives.
the CHO position shouldn't report to the Health Minister but be independent.
This 100000%
Without trying to be that guy is "toeing". As in, to stay on the marked line
Since we're being pedantic, it's not "on", but behind. Toeing means keeping your feet behind the line.
Wow that's really splitting heirs
I wrote that at 4 am
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How about the year and a half of not sleeping
Tell it the judge sunshine
Piss off, how is this being productive?
Just taking the piss mate. Nobody cares about your spelling. I thought it was 'towing' the line myself ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
I’m just beyond frustrated, lacking sleep, and lashing out
It's ok, we're all having a tough time. We'll get through this.
If your knot going too right properly, than dont post on reddit, mayte
Cos no one ever made a spelling error, never in the history of writing.
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I'd say he's succeeding
She also may have been susceptible to hubris after being referred to as ‘the gold standard’. I remember her saying early on ‘3 day lockdown don’t work’ she made this statement unequivocally. In hindsight How we wish we had a 3 day circuit breaker from the fist case.
First, do no harm.
> First, do no *ECONOMIC* harm. Did the Liberal party version for you.
I don't really understand your logic. Chant's job is to provide advice. The politicians that ignored it and then prevented her clarifying when she provided this advice to them are the problem. Brad Hazzard is the person you should be targeting here. Blaming Chant only serves to absolve him of the blame he deserves.
The Premier has stated from the outset that her government has always followed the health advice, she is the leader of the state and the buck stops with her. That said, Chant is a medical doctor and took the oath, so if her advice was given and ignored she was bound to make that public knowledge which she has failed to do. It's been a litany of failure from day two when they discovered that they were dealing with the Delta variant, and Chant is either complicit or incompetent.
Man she could do it on background, just leak if you were worried so the journos could hold them to account at press conferences. Made Dan changes heaps of positions
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You have to factor in that in Victoria the legal power behind the restrictions sits with Sutton and in NSW it sits with Hazzard, so Sutton has much more leverage than Chant. He also has more responsibility but it seems to sit well with him.
She may not be an expert in doing those things and if she gets caught, she could get prosecuted, furthermore, her employment prospects will be severely limited.
Yes, maybe. But I wonder if there are any whistleblower protections? In any event, all speculation. However, it is my opinion her employment prospects may be limited anyway? Unfortunately for these guys, all of a sudden everyone knows their name, what happens to her if they throw her under the bus? Or even if they do not?
> However, it is my opinion her employment prospects may be limited anyway? I disagree. Many employers would be keen on someone with the clout and yet have "loyalty" to her employer. To some circles, it is somewhat seen as "professional" to continue providing advice and not go over the command structure should that advice be ignored. No one wants someone working under them who would knife them in the back if their opinions differ. On the other hand, if Hazzard and Gladys have been ignoring health advice in favour of business interests, one can be in a difficult situation especially if it results in deaths. It's not a good situation to be in. Even if she does go out and resign or expose it, people will forget after a time and she will be the one to pick up the pieces of her life and career. Whereas if she simply keep giving advice though have it ignore, if that is the case, people will still eventually forget and at least she could still have a career.
this. people saying she's 'complicit' for not speaking up don't understand how these institutions work. whistleblowers have their lives destroyed. if she were to somehow announce to the media that she didn't agree with the way the government was handling things, she'd be pilloried for destabilising the government. she isn't in a political position, and so she'd cop a *lot* of shit for criticising the government, and as you say she'd be criticised for knifing her employer in the back. also, Gladys' position is dicey and any comment from Chant might inadvertently cause a backlash from the more pro-lockdown members of the party. i don't know what people expect her to do--leap in front of Gladys and go rogue during the press conference? she's being criticised for not speaking up, but how exactly do you expect that to happen? when people criticise Chant, they're placing the blame exactly where the libs want it to be.
'Health advice' from the 'health minister'? None of them clarify what they actually mean.
This. Don't forget that LNP are masters of gaslighting.
she's had 6 weeks + worth of press conferences during an out of control outbreak to refute the claims that her advice is being ignored. She at best has aluded to vague instances of possibly having recommended specific alternate restrictions that were not adopted. She for the most part either provided this shithouse advice, or signed off on it willingly
Chant didn't answer anything clearly at yesterday's hearing. She could have been clear if her health advice wasn't being followed.
If her advice was not being taken, she should have publicly spoken out. She chose to play politics.
my logic is she supports to false narrative. Like why didn't SHE call it a lockdown if Gladys didn't. Why is she focussing on vaccines instead of suppression. Again in the press conferences she is just repeating Gladys spin rather than reporting truthfully. Its not ONLY her fault but her job is very different to Gladys or Brad and I don't think she is executing her role
This is the same mistake naive people make regarding HR. The mistake is understanding what her job is. Her job SHOULD be about health matters that affect the state. What her actual job is to tow the party line. Probably likely due to Brad Hazzard being her superior pushing her down that path & her either being too weak or caring too much about her job to not step up or just quit. I don't think she's incompetent. She's complicit.
*toe
*To'o
*Touegh
You can be both
I used to think the same till I saw the way Hazzard bullied her. Now I think she's been coerced and possibly blackmailed.
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Think gaslighted, manipulated. When your intelligence is invalidated for so long it's hard to properly voice an opinion or provide advice.
Did you watch the whole video or just the highlight reel? Because the way she gave her answers was deliberately obtuse, dancing around simple questions and generally being completely unhelpful.
I did watch the whole thing and from her body language got the impression she was not saying what she really wanted to.
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I think it's a fair to say she had gone into dark grey areas of the code of practice, and has knowingly used her role to give public support to wrong medical decisions.
She will get the pussy pass. she isn't a useless cunt, she is a victim of the patriarchy.
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Her speaking out to the media if the NSW govt is ignoring her advice isn't how being a public servant in Australia works. She'd be sacked immediately and do people honestly think the LNP would then appoint someone who isn't just going to give advice they want to hear? She is in an awful position because she's being made a scapegoat for the LNP NSW govt's failings. She's a doctor / bureaucrat and not a political player so she's just doing the job she has.
She would be fired, but how are her career prospects looking at the moment?
Considering she's a senior public servant, she probably isn't planning on going back to actual practice any time soon and wants to remain a public servant. Speaking out would do those prospects far more harm. Whistleblowers aren't treated well at all in Australia.
But people are dying when they don't have to be. Her responsibility is to ensure that doesn't happen
Her responsibility is to give the government advice. Its the government's responsibility to implement that. The blame is with the government, not Kerry Chant.
Did you see the inquiry? She had the evasiveness of a politician, not a doctor.
The LNP have a solid track record of throwing females under the bus. Don't expect change here.
In NSW the CHO does not write the directions, its the politicians. All Chant does is advise. In other states the CHO writes the directions. They have the force of law & are enforced by police: https://www.health.qld.gov.au/system-governance/legislation/cho-public-health-directions-under-expanded-public-health-act-powers
In SA the police commissioner writes the orders, but I’ve heard from inside sources that he does whatever Spurrier suggests.
He did over ride her one and pulled the lockdown early.
As I see it. The CHOs simply provide best advice. It's up to the politicians if they take that advice.
Cool. She can provide the best advice to all of us. Nothing political about that.
Blaming the chief health officer is not helpful. It's clear that she has provided advice and has been ignored, but it's not her job to decide policy. If she speaks up publicly, she gets sacked and replaced with someone whose advice is more friendly to the government. I guarantee she has been speaking up in the crisis cabinet. Save the hate for Berejiklian and Hazzard, and the rest of the useless pricks that have politicised every step of this process.
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I think she drank the “golf standard” cool-aid. She thought that she could continue to beat it. I also think this was a problem with some of the population (sorry guys). When all you have heard for 18 months is you don’t need a lockdown, you would start to believe it. Maybe it was her arrogance too?
Yes but ultimate responsibility is with Gladys. I doubt anything will stick but in an ideal world leaders take ultimate responsibility and is why they get paid so much for the top job. Unfortunately everything I've witnessed in this country has been the opposite and usually lower level staff get thrown under the bus as the fall person for what ultimately should be on the shoulders of the leader.
The biggest question I have at this point is who will replace her if it turns out she's been complicit or incompetent as postulated? Are we sure it's not going to go from bad to worse for NSW? What if someone even worse is installed in her place? I ask because I have no idea. EDIT: I don't even know if this is beside the point at this stage. What an awful mess. I just feel bad for the people of NSW.
Chant should resign, to salvage her reputation. She may not want to dump that on her deputy, but at her level her best way to control the situation is to jump.
The Minister is responsible under the NSW legislation. In other states, the Minister is removed from the design of restrictions, just signing off on them in the cabinet. NSW is unique in having the Minister being solely responsible for the restrictions that the implemented.
I think she has provided advice that hasn't been followed, both her and Hazzard claimed the advice was Cabinet confidentiality so they couldn't say what it was, obviously if they had followed the advice they wouldn't have a problem saying that. It allows Gladys to lie and say she follows the health advice because she can't be contradicted by evidence. I still think there is a faction of Hazzard, Barilaro, Perretet and another that are running the agenda, the cabinet decisions apparently go 4 to 3 so there are 2 factions in cabinet.
Give her a chant and give her a chance.
“Let’s go Kerry, Let’s go!”
Why are we following these “health experts” and allowing Gladys to make these decisions? They’ve proved they’re incompetent as handling this outbreak
Ridiculous
Please don't jump to conclusions, I understand your fustration, but I have to let you know you're incorrect. NSW is unique to other states. Under the Public Health Act 2010 in NSW, the Health Minister makes public health orders. Other states, that responsibility lies with the Chief Health Officer. As others have stated, in NSW, the Chief Health Officer's position is for the provision of advice. Unfortunately the blame lies entirely with Brad Hazzard, a politician who has proven himself unworthy for the task. Any questions, please let me know.
yes but Kerry is given a platform everyday to air her views. If she didn't "toe the party line", she could have just plainly state her views in the press conference and say, "I have given my recommendation to do a hard lockdown but the Health Minister & the premier has the ultimate decision.". That simple act alone would have easily shift the spotlight to both Hazzard and Gladys to do the right thing. If she, as CHO, stood her ground and said this is the health advice from my team, it will be plainly obvious that Gladys is not following what's right and wouldn't have the excuse of hiding behind the "i follow the best health advice" in every sentence. So I don't buy that she doesn't have any responsibility in NSW since _she is given a platform at the press conference everyday to air her views_ but has instead, decided to be vague and play along. Now whether she did it on her own accord or brad has bullied her (judging from the inquiry, i am not surprised!) but in all honesty, that comes with the position/title, right? Like I wouldn't be the CFO of a company and not do my job properly in highlighting accounting, budget issues, etc regardless if the CEO is berating me for not having enough money to spend.
I don't believe she would have taken this job if she could predict how political her role may have become. Prior to this, politics would have been an after thought for her. How often are you on National TV with the limelight on you, and have to say something extremely controversial that will negatively impact your life in many ways and likely cause you several mental health issues. So yeah, it doesn't come with the position. It does in other states however. She is performing her job, however the Health Minister has the final say in NSW. Direct your fustration towards him.
She is in a management position. You don't get there without understanding your role will be political.
Political, yes. To this extent, no.
I guess the challenge is, in the corporate world for instance, do you expect an underling to speak out against their employer at a meeting? I think what she should have done was quit at the crucial point where they didn't listen to her and spoken out. There's plenty of other capable people in Health I'm sure (McNulty), Chant would be listened to as a private citizen, and it'd put even more pressure on the NSW government. Perhaps she's under a wild NDA and been threatened with serious punishment if she speaks of crisis cabinet meeting events and/or Health's decisions generally.
> I guess the challenge is, in the corporate world for instance, do you expect an underling to speak out against their employer at a meeting? Well, I've actually worked in management positions for both government and private enterprises - I would ABSOLUTELY expect an underling to speak out if there are any shenanigans since the last thing I want are people hiding things under the rug. Even more so if that underling is a VP/Director or a manger of people, which is basically the point of a good middle manager. If I was an underling myself, I will stand my ground if I've been told otherwise to sweep everything under the rug. It comes down to principles and covering-your-arse so if this happens in the corporate world, I am not gonna be the one being pointed a finger at when things go wrong, regardless of what my position is. > Perhaps she's under a wild NDA and been threatened with serious punishment if she speaks of crisis cabinet meeting events and/or Health's decisions generally. That's a fair point but again, I don't buy that she has no options at all. We are talking about the government and not a private enterprise so why will there be repercussions on releasing public knowledge, especially when she is told to do so under duress? Even quitting from her position is enough to make enough of a statement that "the NSW CHO has quit because Gladys/Hazzard refuses to listen to their advice and causing the issues now at NSW".
Speak out against your boss outside your dept/org? If you say so! I'll defer to your obvious experience (sounds sarcastic but I'm being sincere) I'm pretty shocked there hasn't been any leaks about it, even from people below Chant of which there are an entire organisational pyramid full of people. Right? People are that intimidated by Hazzard perhaps? > Even quitting from her position is enough to make enough of a statement that "the NSW CHO has quit because Gladys/Hazzard refuses to listen to their advice and causing the issues now at NSW". Agree and I would consider that it's never too late. The deed is done. Though maybe the argument is that her successor is worse? They're more aligned with business needs? Seriously thanks for your insight
No worries and I agree with your last point! > Speak out against your boss outside your dept/org? If you say so! I'll defer to your obvious experience (sounds sarcastic but I'm being sincere) Nah mate, totally understand and I know it sounds counterintuitive but if my boss is going against what I told him including hiding behind statements such as "I am following the best advice from Kinkora", I would absolutely make it clear to everyone that is not the case. Obviously not in a way where you are slinging insults or throwing said boss under the bus but one will be straddling the line between telling the truth and distancing yourself from your boss. There is an art of playing politics at that level and trust me on this, you will get a reputation. Personally, it has never hurt my career prospects and if anything, I got praised for being forthright and speaking out! Which is funny enough, how I went from a position in the government -> private enterprise but I am digressing from the point of this thread. :) (p.s. you can see my comment history - i was in the government during the labor to liberal transition so politics was absolutely something you have to know how to navigate)
> Nah mate, totally understand and I know it sounds counterintuitive but if my boss is going against what I told him including hiding behind statements such as "I am following the best advice from Kinkora", I would absolutely make it clear to everyone that is not the case. Excellent excellent point. I see your perspective now. > (p.s. you can see my comment history - i was in the government during the labor to liberal transition so politics was absolutely something you have to know how to navigate) I bet! We're lucky to have your insight here.
I don't think it's as easy as that. If she were to publicly speak out against the government, what impression would that leave on the people of NSW? It'd be "No-one knows what we're doing, I'm really confused, I suppose I'll just live as normal" or something. Some idea of clarity and confidence is important, and I'm assuming Chant is doing what she can with what she's given to work off. The way Hazzard was cutting her off at the inquiry yesterday might indicate a tenuous relationship behind closed doors.
Have you all seen the way Hazzard practically muzzled her during the inquiry???
Either way, the premier and health minister don't seem to be making it easy for her to do her job.
Whether or not this is justified, responsibility falling on Chant certainly is convenient for Gladys. It's not like you guys can vote for against Chant so please remain as rational and pragmatic as you can over there, at least until the next election.
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She was asked in yesterday's parliamentary inquiry and said NSW locked down the day she formally told them to. Maybe she raised it and was talked out of it earlier. Who knows given the dynamic we saw yesterday.....
While is think you are probably right, i think the following is also a possibility : The nsw libs wanted no lockdown. She talked them into what they have now. They have got her to toe the line by saying if she contradicts them they will cancel the lockdown. She is satying despite being compromised because she thinks its better that she is there to do something rather than not there and let Hazzard and Perrotet have their way.
She is the only state CHO that does **NOT** have total authority during the pandemic crisis. She can't do anything because the Liberal government won't let her do anything. All she can do is make recommendations, then watch them be ignored.
Surely there's a whole team of health experts they rely on when making this decision, not just one doctor
Chant is equally responsible
The buck stops at Gladys.
Chant is ALSO responsible. Don't take the ultimate decision making responsibly away from Gladys Binchicken and Health Hazzard.
We are in a different place to last year. You can help yourself. Have you gotten vaccinated? Have you made an appointment to be vaccinated?
I don't live in NSW thank god. I am vaccinated but being vaccinated isn't actually going to shift numbers any time soon. Its at least two months until you get both vaccines and give it time to be most effective Other measures need to happen first
Some of the LGA in Sydney which were bad last week are actually getting their numbers down. I think we are in a better place because we can vaccinate but in the mean time stay at home. Dan was able to achieve it and I know it hurt but he got the numbers down just with isolation.
She choose the Sweden approach. Now you may not agree with it. But it is a valid approach.
So by your measure Brett Sutton was incompetent or complicit in causing Victoria’s second wave last year? Or perhaps it’s possible that with a novel and evolving virus, that good public health officials don’t always get things 100% right all the time. With severe consequences in the case of the Victorian and NSW outbreaks.
Why do so with Brett? Comparing an outbreak at the beginning of a pandemic to one 18 months later with learnings from all over the country are two very different scenarios. Brett made mistakes of course but he didn’t have hindsight. Kerry does!
Kerry and Gladys keep arguing they don't because "Delta". I don't agree, if Delta is worse they should do everything that worked last year plus more.
To be clear, I don’t think either Brett Sutton or Kerry Chant are incompetent or complicit. NSW had a great track record of suppressing Covid prior to Delta. They underestimated Delta for sure and they were too slow to change tack from the methods that worked with other variants. It’s not accurate to say Dr Chant had the benefit of hindsight when it came to Delta. Delta had been around prior to the Sydney outbreak for roughly the same time as Covid had been around prior to the Victorian second wave. Not saying the situations are identical, but I think we can be a bit more generous in our assessment of our public health officials as they make extremely difficult decisions.
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That’s not accurate. The India travel ban occurred before Delta was identified as a Variant of Concern. The driving force was the high rate of infections in India and the number of returned travellers from India testing positive in HQ. There was no discussion of Delta being a factor at the time - most of it was around whether banning India was reasonable given cases had previously been higher in the US and UK.
So she's just incompetent for ignoring 18 months worth of lessons?
Delta has not been around for 18 months. If anything she’s guilty of leaning too heavily on the lessons learnt from other variants during the preceding 18 months, which could be more easily controlled without lockdowns.
Or luck.
> that good public health officials don’t always get things 100% right all the time. Works every time, 1% of the time