I also couldn't help but notice, the diverse fanbase that seem to love the franchise before Disney started pandering to them. Almost like they didn't need to pander, just write good movies, and there would already be a diverse fanbase.
Yes they are out of touch, but they, just like any other business they are not trying to make their media more diverse because they want to seem like good people, it's for money. Just remember businesses don't give a crap about culture, they give a crap about profits and nothing else.
That's half true. The board might care about money. Kennedy and pretty much everyone she's brought on don't care one bit about Disney's profit margin. They are true believers in DEI.
No they're not. Kennedy is a billionaire, not an activist. Rarely, and I mean VERY rarely, is one, both.
The ''DEI'' nonsense is fake, most of those people making those decisions are just trying to pander. If they genuinely cared about ending racial tension/bringing people together, that would be a good cause, but they don't.
That's not entirely true. Bob Iger and Kathleen Kennedy are true DEI believers. They believe they will be more successful by pandering. Even if the numbers don't support it, which they don't, they will continue to push it until it's undeniable how wrong they are.
It's not the black people they are pandering to when they push black people into it. It is the [mostly white] people offended on behalf of the black people, LGTBQ+, etc.
Which is the left projecting again. They cry about colonialism but they’re engaging in cultural colonialism by telling Latinos how to use their own language.
Fallout has a diverse cast but has a good story. Same with HotD, Andor, and other content. The presence of Black people and other minorities shouldn’t be a problem in fictional stories but bad storytelling should definitely be capable of critique.
And a bunch of people were shitting on Fallout before it debuted. Same with X-men 97. The loudest ones amongst you are always racist or sexist, and so any valid criticism is gonna fall by the wayside, because you have racists and dipshits in your ranks. You don't like it, don't watch.
No, no they aren't. It's a lot of "I'm not racist, I liked Lando!" Hell, go down a few comments and there's a dude complaining about how shows like this contribute to the degeneracy of European culture.
Kinda a no brainer but when there isn’t a problem they have to manufacture one… it’s become more politics than entertainment and that’s a real fucking let down. Such a wasted potential for greatness only to deliver such drivel.
It’s like micro transactions in video games. True Fans of the games don’t want it but enough people support the model to incentivize the game developers to screw us over anyways. Enough blue hair nose ring sign holding alphabet people complain about nonsense for us to end up with kk. And I can guarantee you now that micro transaction model in games is going to stay for a long long time. Idk if it’s a good comparison or not but I can’t help but see the trend of true supporters of products being the ones who get the shit end of the stick.
Did you just say that the original 3 movies were well written? Do you know what movies you're talking about? Do you know that Lucas pulled everything out of his ass?
Makes me want to cry bro. That used to be me! I miss that. All this arguing over political messages. It's vomit inducing. It's about aliens driving rocketships fighting with laser swords...
Yeah, unfortunately it's just in everything we all enjoy now.. sports, video games, table top games, and while it's always been in music and theatre/movies it just feels like it's been ramped up to 11.
It only feels ramped up because people complain more about it. If the new stuff was released 50 years ago, you'd get the same reactions these people are giving. Nothing with the content released today is bad. It's simply the way people want to perceive it. Anti LGBT, anti black, anti everything that isn't white. The content is fine. You're just viewing it ruined because a bunch of racist homophones can't stop hating when people not like them are front and center.
Completely untrue, compare the recent additions of D&D over the years to AD&D 2E. 2E was the peak of the series and was almost entirely ‘European’ in nature.
The world “Elf” literally means white (from Norse alfr, from proto-Nordic *albaR, from PIE root *alba-, meaning "white"), the changes to the races of D&D in the latest additions are non-sensical.
This is just one example, pretending that the degeneration of native-European culture on a macro scale hasn’t taken place over the past century is completely dishonest and shows complete disdain for indigenous Europeans everywhere.
There is no quiet part, I don’t want anti-indigenous European sentiments infecting aspects of culture that were formerly pro-native European. Those in power and the values they enforce are vehemently anti European and the effects of this in Western Europe and America are impossible to ignore by anyone that doesn’t wish to remain shrouded in ignorance.
It’s fantasy dude. There are dragons and skeletons walking around and you’re getting mad that people can play as orcs or drow and not be pigeonholed to play an evil character?
You completely lack any understanding of what differentiates high quality fantasy that attracts a cult following with low quality fantasy that fades into obscurity.
Why is Lord of the Rings one of the most influential literary works in the past century? Because the world building is believable within its confines and is composed entirely within the European mythological framework that has been ingrained in the European people’s subconscious for tens of thousands of years.
Saying “hur dur dragons exist which means anything goes” shows you don’t comprehend fantasy or why people enjoy fantasy. An author or creator must not only instill a desire for one to immerse oneself in their creation, they then must cultivate their universe in a manner that sustains and propels this immersion via playing off of the readers subconscious worldview.
Dragons and skeletons do not break immersion or because humans have been talking about dragons and skeletons since the Stone Age, they are a part of our very identity and have influenced our thoughts for just as long.
Fantasy being “anything goes” is a low-IQ talking point made by those who want to make excuses for shit-tier fantasy and shit-tier additions to existing fantasy works.
Not meant to spam you.
I had reddit tell me my message wasn't posted, so I kept clicking on it to post
Anyway, yea, I disagree completely but hey, it's just an opinion.
Yeah what irritates me the most is that back then we mostly just argued over who had the best theory on what was going to happen in the next movie. I remember in between classes one day when I was in high school I was debating with another guy about Palpatine and how he got so disfigured....was it due to being so old? Was it because he was so corrupt and powerful with the dark side that it was too much for his body to handle? Then Episode 3 came out years later and proved us both wrong....Man that was fun. We never called each other names, never racist, just picked on each other for who had the worst idea.
My mom was one of those teens. I remember when she showed me pictures and told me the story of how my her parents rented a small theatre so her and her 4 siblings could watch the premiere ROTJ alone. She just watched acolyte and was utterly disappointed in what Star Wars has become and she told me she’s rewatching Andor to erase Acolyte from her memory
Seeing this honestly just made me miss the hype that used to be around movie theaters - just hearing the dude on the megaphone announcing “you must be holding your own ticket, have your tickets ready!” took me back when it was exciting going to the movies, it was an event, and there was an energy in the line that built until you got into the theater.
Now you either just stream at home or you just walk right in and scan your ticket from your phone at concessions in a mostly empty lobby. The magics just gone. There’s still good movies that come out, but even the most hype movies today are nothing compared to what it was like back then
Uh, what’s arguing over political messages in modern Star Wars? There were more political messages and tropes in the prequels than there were in any of the Disney stuff.
That’s actually the problem with the modern stuff. It has no soul. It’s mass produced. It’s just content now, a product.
The original trilogy had a story to tell and was incredibly progressive for its time. It had Vietnam War overtones. Lucas is said to have used Richard Nixon as one of his models for Palpatine. Leia and Lando were diverse castings and characters.
Leia and Lando were THE diverse castings. As in the characters that weren't white men. The two characters. I'm fine with shitting on the new projects for being soulless cash grabs that are completely forgettable and have forever ruined the spectacle. But that didn't happen because there's more brown people and women (I know you yourself aren't making this argument, I'm just sayin).
The new projects suck because there's no passion, etc. They don't suck because there's more representation within the characters in a story that takes place across several galaxies.
There's a huge difference between containing political themes that are part and parcel of the actual worldbuilding and setting of the show, and hamfistedly forcing a monolithic "modern" political message into every show regardless of how well it fits the worldbuilding and setting.
Nobody that complains about something being "political" is complaining that the worldbuilding includes its own set of politics. They're complaining that the worldbuilding is set aside to force real world politics into a given piece of media.
Why even acknowledge the rhetoric? The ones saying these things are clearly the racists and sexista etc. They can't be reasoned with any more than a fanatical cult member can be reasoned with. This is their religion. Could you talk sense into a rabid animal? They cannot "cancel" you or anyone else because they are outnumbered. They are like soldiers of a lost cause refusing to surrender. Their only moves are screaming like a toddler, making ridiculous accusations and paying off people to do the same while pretending they adore the product. (Some actually do they are the cult devotees)
I feel sorry for those sucked into this because they need to work or make money (cast and crew mostly).
Pre-internet, when it was still just fun pop-culture movies that that no one took that seriously.
More evidence that the world was perhaps a better place before every idiot owned a smartphone and could post their personal bile at random.
The internet gave a way for the dumbest people in society to connect and share their ideas with one another, and spread them to even dumber people. In the past people like this would be relegated to basements and local gatherings where no one really took them seriously.
Now they're loud and in your face 24/7. And some of them somehow managed to weasel their way into politics.
The world legitimately was a better place pre-internet, hell even into the early days of the internet, because the negative shit you'd encounter daily came primarily from your local surroundings and possibly any major event that was occurring in the wider world. Nowadays like you pointed out everyone has a voice, all day, everyday, the negativity is ever growing and constant with people of differing opinions always bickering for the world to see. The 90's were fuckin awesome to grow up in
The first bit maybe not so much as I think there have always been people that take things seriously every fandom will always have it, and so long as it's not toxic it can be a positive thing.
The second bit, absolutely. Social media is a cancer that's destroying everything and turning people on each other. (conspiracy hat on) intentionally manufactured albeit with actual trolls and vile people out there I think the flames of XYZ issues are fanned by those whose best interests lie in us being divided.
When I was in high school in the late 80's early 90's we had heated arguments in the comic book store all the time Marvel vs DC, Star Wars vs Star Trek, D&D vs Magic. We never got mad at or stopped being friends over it.
That's because you didn't have the internet. Comparing things to the way they were to how they are now it's futile because the way people interact is entirely different. This post is idiotic for that fact alone.
>that that no one took that seriously
If there was a message in it, it was what the Galactic Empire was doing was wrong and the heroes were determined to take a stand against it. That's how a message in a film should be handled, instead of the heavy-handed crap that shows like The Acoshite come out with.
Star Wars inspired a generation, it gave us heroes, yes, they were flawed, but they were still heroes and amongst my peers, who didn't want to be as cool as Han Solo, or as noble as Luke?
I feel sorry for those watching the Star Wars shows now. Nothing cool, nothing admirable. A terrible end of classic cinema.
Love how happy and enthusiastic they all were!
Guy at the end, not knowing what to say: “It was a fantastic movie, but it was also really really good.”
Shout out to Rainbow Wig Guy for discussing *Dark* Vader.
It’s almost like if you just make a good movie then people of all backgrounds will enjoy it without the need for self-identity to play a central theme.
I don’t hate the sequel trilogy because there’s a female lead. I hate the sequel trilogy because it’s shortly written to make a female lead. FN2187 would have been a superior “Minority” lead for the three movies, and if Rian “I don’t believe in world building” Fucking Johnson didn’t get his grubby hands all over the second movie in the series, people would hate the movies A LOT less. Watch the Throne room fight scene again, they had to edit out a guards weapon because he 100% was about to kill Rey. Why his arm up like that for no reason Rian? Yes there’s A LOT more wrong with TLJ than just that, but that’s one of my biggest issues with it. If they didn’t try to force Rose? On us as a side love interest for Finn, if they didn’t make him puss out at the end of the third one, they could have done a little better, if they didn’t fuck with established lore and also undo 30 years of stated fact of the bad guy is actually dead. Hell if they hadn’t of Disneyfied Starwars they’d have done a lot better also. I LOVED TFA when it dropped, I’ve since soured on it because of Rian. Fuck Rian he, like Snyder should never be allowed to work in Hollywoo.
What a time. I was in 5th grade. My dad, best friend, and I waited in line for 90 minutes to get into the theater. The excitement, the anticipation - the place was electric. I've never heard a theater get so loud since that night, the original cut of Vader throwing the Emperor into that chasm (a moment that didn't need that awful FrankenVader scream from ROTS edited into it - awful). The place erupted. It honestly felt like the place was going to fall down around us. Stuff like that is normal these days, but back then, for the villain to actually attempt to redeem himself - even a little - at the end of the film was insane. Afterward, my friend stayed overnight at my house, and we spent the whole night talking about what we had just witnessed.
One other thing of note from that night that I will never forget: this was before every 2nd person in line was dressed like Darth Nihilus or some shit. So seeing someone dressed up was a new experience. And one that would have been cool if it had been a Star Wars character. But as luck would have it, the dude was dressed like, yes, Mr. Spock. That actually kind of bugged me. And it cemented my disdain for cosplay early in life as one of the local TV stations had cameras at that particular theater that night, and they INTERVIEWED SPOCK, which we saw on the news for that station the next day. My friend and I were trying like idiots to get on camera, and a damn Star Trek character steals our thunder?!?!
It was a magical night during a magical time.
The funniest thing to me about those making comments like that is that I know 90% were likely not even born yet when the movie came out. They literally do not have a clue about what they are talking about.
Yeah, also a lot of meddling from cia and other intelligence agencies that were only looking for ways to slowly but surely change society using the internet. Let me adjust my tin foil hat
All of them! /s
I haven't heard the argument that "the original fans of the OT *were* istaphobes"
I have heard "current fans of the OT *are* istaphobes." <- this argument may be a load of beans, but the video above doesn't serve to dispute it.
More to the point, the argument isn't even worth disputing since the people who present it refuse to engage in good faith discussions/debates with the people they accuse of istaphobia.
The sad part is Star Wars could have added more important black and female characters without making it woke. Seeing this honestly makes me sad. People were out there just loving Star Wars for what it is. Now it's saturated by politics.
Hate the old Star Wars. It was filled with nothing but hatred and racism!
They didn’t have lesbian witches or strong Wo-men. Can’t wait for the new movies. Rey is the best
It's all a made up fight. Losers taking their real world fights and bringing them to star wars. And creating more anger and frustration in the process. That girl who is the lead of acolyte is such a tool.
Star Wars brought people together from any and all backgrounds/race/culture/sex for their love of the story and characters.
Now all it does is divide people but yet it's supposed to be more inclusive now?
Things I don't remember: the massive racist backlash over having Billy Dee Williams in two movies and Samuel L. Jackson in three.
Things I do remember: people bullying the episode I cast because they read in racism where there was none.
That's a really rose colored perspective considering things like the anti-Japanese sentiment in the 80s, and the explosion of racial tensions leading up to the OJ Simpson Trial. Nowadays it's just easier for people to see what's going as news spreads through non-traditional outlets.
These are a few of the big newsworthy incidents that occured in the 80s and 90s but doesn't really speak to the day to day for large portions of this country.
[1980 Miami Riots](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980_Miami_riots)
[Killing of Vincent Chin (1985)](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Vincent_Chin)
[1985 MOVE Bombing](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1985_MOVE_bombing)
[Central Park Five (1989)](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Park_jogger_case)
[Beating of Rodney King/Killing of Latasha Harlims/LA Riots (1992)](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_Los_Angeles_riots)
[OJ Simpson Trial (1995)](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_trial_of_O._J._Simpson)
Racism and racial tensions is blown up so much by celebrities, politicians, “activists”, etc.
Most Americans really don’t give a shit.
ESPECIALLY nerds.
Thats why they’re the most fun.
All of them are. Everyone in that picture is so obviously racist and toxic. Look! They're all males! And they're Star Wars fans! So, they're obviously racist, toxic, and in desperate need to received the Message on how inferior they are!
And they seem to talk like all nerds are white, hetero, men. Interesting how I see plenty of black people and women. Accusing the fans of bigotry is them gaslighting you and everyone that will blindly listen to them. A common thing for Marxists to do is call everyone and everything you don’t like bigots and all opposition to what you say bigotry over and over is what every Marxist uprising has done. It’s funny how they try to say the actor for Anakin in Phantom Menace suffers from mental problems due to toxic fans and yet the mom said she shielded him from it and says his issues would have likely happened regardless and Disney and their shills try to say that’s not how it happened as if they know more than the guys MOTHER!
I just see a bunch of happy people. All different sizes, shapes, and colors.
Franchise has been diverse forever. It's been accessible by many forever. Look at all those honest responses in those interviews. Everyone knew they belonged in that theater.
I just see a bunch of happy people. All different sizes, shapes, and colors.
Franchise has been diverse forever. It's been accessible by many forever. Look at all those honest responses in those interviews. Everyone knew they belonged in that theater.
Simple story celebrating universal themes of duty, friendship, sacrifice and honor. No politics, no agenda, and most importantly, giving the fans the ending they wanted.
This is the inherent problem with Star Wars. The Empire cannot be woke, the empire needs to be all old white men. Something the proud boys will like, like a lemon party. Because they are Space Nazis. The rebellion can be multicultural and have aliens and such. They got it so wrong.
Representation is important. But yes turning a movie Into a social diversity showcase and making the story the background is a mistake on fundamental levels. It hurts the people they want to Include more than helps. The reason the diversity is so in your face in movies and shows is an attempt to try and gain sympathy. But execs only know how to do things over board in hopes of getting attention. Basically controversy is stronger in getting headlines than "instant classic film"
I miss the time when this franchise used to excite me like that. Heck I miss the time it made me feel anything, even anger at how bad it's gotten. Now I just feel nothing towards it. Another bad show or movie? Who actually cares, that's what it is now and what it's going to be until they lose too much money and move on to the next trend. That's the tragedy at the end of the day, making fans uninterested with it all
Yep, I was 8 years old when my parents took me to see Return Of The Jedi when it came out. I remember it because the line to get in was HUGE and everyone was excited.
Originally have politics that matters, politics about war and state of world. Sequels have distraction politics, politics about woke liberal, and it really distracts the masses from the actual problem.
It's sad that movies and people that love those movies can't just enjoy the experience like they did back then. It makes me sad when my kids don't even want to watch the new movies because they know at some point there is gonna be a part that is just there because someone felt inclusions was more important than story.
Black guys were hired by Pierce Morgan. Women were blackmailed into it by Trump out of fear he’ll grab em by the…..
Seriously tho, SW was always about the story. People loved the adventure… regardless of background or race. Now the woke idiots who were never fans of SW in the first place want to F that up. I reject them.
Who has ever said that the 1983 fans of Star wars were particularly racist?
It seems like you're intentionally conflating commentary about today with 40 years ago. But that would be pretty dishonest...
Nobody talks about this or thinks about this stuff as much as this sub. If anything you’re forwarding the narrative you’re claiming is being pushed on you. Even if you were completely correct and there was an agenda being pushed, is this not doing the *exact* same thing and trying to push the opposite agenda? The “woke-free” mentality so to speak? Maybe think about that. Maybe think about the fact that most people don’t consume their mind with this NEARLY as much as people in this sub and by extension Critical Drinker fans.
If this is an attempt at trolling, good one.
If not, what exactly is the problem? All I see are a whole lot of fans having a fun time and enjoying a great film with each other.
It’s not trolling. I’ve just never understood the mentality. It’s like Americans feel like they have to put on a show of how enthusiastic they are, and then outdo each other in thier show of enthusiasm - for everything.
I also couldn't help but notice, the diverse fanbase that seem to love the franchise before Disney started pandering to them. Almost like they didn't need to pander, just write good movies, and there would already be a diverse fanbase.
Shows how out of touch Disney really are
And racist
That too, and it's their fault the word racist has been so diluted
Yes they are out of touch, but they, just like any other business they are not trying to make their media more diverse because they want to seem like good people, it's for money. Just remember businesses don't give a crap about culture, they give a crap about profits and nothing else.
That's half true. The board might care about money. Kennedy and pretty much everyone she's brought on don't care one bit about Disney's profit margin. They are true believers in DEI.
No they're not. Kennedy is a billionaire, not an activist. Rarely, and I mean VERY rarely, is one, both. The ''DEI'' nonsense is fake, most of those people making those decisions are just trying to pander. If they genuinely cared about ending racial tension/bringing people together, that would be a good cause, but they don't.
Yeah but i dont think being woke is even profitable for them. I feel it almost never was to begin with.
That's not entirely true. Bob Iger and Kathleen Kennedy are true DEI believers. They believe they will be more successful by pandering. Even if the numbers don't support it, which they don't, they will continue to push it until it's undeniable how wrong they are.
DEI graduates hate this one simple trick!
It's not the black people they are pandering to when they push black people into it. It is the [mostly white] people offended on behalf of the black people, LGTBQ+, etc.
The best example of this has been the white women pushing "latinx" as a gender neutral term for latino and latina.
I'm Latino, I fucking hate when white people say latinx. It's Latino or Latina and do not correct my culture or language you have no business with.
Which is the left projecting again. They cry about colonialism but they’re engaging in cultural colonialism by telling Latinos how to use their own language.
As a white person we don’t claim the white people who claim to be white people by trying not to be white people.
Fallout has a diverse cast but has a good story. Same with HotD, Andor, and other content. The presence of Black people and other minorities shouldn’t be a problem in fictional stories but bad storytelling should definitely be capable of critique.
And a bunch of people were shitting on Fallout before it debuted. Same with X-men 97. The loudest ones amongst you are always racist or sexist, and so any valid criticism is gonna fall by the wayside, because you have racists and dipshits in your ranks. You don't like it, don't watch.
Whose ranks? People who critique movies?
I was more talking about this sub in general.
99.9% of the comments I’ve seen here are criticisms of writing.
No, no they aren't. It's a lot of "I'm not racist, I liked Lando!" Hell, go down a few comments and there's a dude complaining about how shows like this contribute to the degeneracy of European culture.
How is that racism?
Saying that a diverse cast on a show is contributing is to the downfall of native European culture is not only racist, it's incredibly dumb and soft.
Who knew that if you made good media people would watch it
Probably helps that their "representation" was Billie Dee Williams and Sam Muthfucka Jackson.
And James Earl Jones.
Kinda a no brainer but when there isn’t a problem they have to manufacture one… it’s become more politics than entertainment and that’s a real fucking let down. Such a wasted potential for greatness only to deliver such drivel.
Lando existed.
It’s like micro transactions in video games. True Fans of the games don’t want it but enough people support the model to incentivize the game developers to screw us over anyways. Enough blue hair nose ring sign holding alphabet people complain about nonsense for us to end up with kk. And I can guarantee you now that micro transaction model in games is going to stay for a long long time. Idk if it’s a good comparison or not but I can’t help but see the trend of true supporters of products being the ones who get the shit end of the stick.
Did you just say that the original 3 movies were well written? Do you know what movies you're talking about? Do you know that Lucas pulled everything out of his ass?
Makes me want to cry bro. That used to be me! I miss that. All this arguing over political messages. It's vomit inducing. It's about aliens driving rocketships fighting with laser swords...
That was me too. I watched empire on release and I was so excited to see the next episode.
Yeah, unfortunately it's just in everything we all enjoy now.. sports, video games, table top games, and while it's always been in music and theatre/movies it just feels like it's been ramped up to 11.
It only feels ramped up because people complain more about it. If the new stuff was released 50 years ago, you'd get the same reactions these people are giving. Nothing with the content released today is bad. It's simply the way people want to perceive it. Anti LGBT, anti black, anti everything that isn't white. The content is fine. You're just viewing it ruined because a bunch of racist homophones can't stop hating when people not like them are front and center.
Completely untrue, compare the recent additions of D&D over the years to AD&D 2E. 2E was the peak of the series and was almost entirely ‘European’ in nature. The world “Elf” literally means white (from Norse alfr, from proto-Nordic *albaR, from PIE root *alba-, meaning "white"), the changes to the races of D&D in the latest additions are non-sensical. This is just one example, pretending that the degeneration of native-European culture on a macro scale hasn’t taken place over the past century is completely dishonest and shows complete disdain for indigenous Europeans everywhere.
Wow… said the quiet part out loud. Nice.
What is the quiet part? I’m sorry, I’m just not following
There is no quiet part, I don’t want anti-indigenous European sentiments infecting aspects of culture that were formerly pro-native European. Those in power and the values they enforce are vehemently anti European and the effects of this in Western Europe and America are impossible to ignore by anyone that doesn’t wish to remain shrouded in ignorance.
It’s fantasy dude. There are dragons and skeletons walking around and you’re getting mad that people can play as orcs or drow and not be pigeonholed to play an evil character?
You completely lack any understanding of what differentiates high quality fantasy that attracts a cult following with low quality fantasy that fades into obscurity. Why is Lord of the Rings one of the most influential literary works in the past century? Because the world building is believable within its confines and is composed entirely within the European mythological framework that has been ingrained in the European people’s subconscious for tens of thousands of years. Saying “hur dur dragons exist which means anything goes” shows you don’t comprehend fantasy or why people enjoy fantasy. An author or creator must not only instill a desire for one to immerse oneself in their creation, they then must cultivate their universe in a manner that sustains and propels this immersion via playing off of the readers subconscious worldview. Dragons and skeletons do not break immersion or because humans have been talking about dragons and skeletons since the Stone Age, they are a part of our very identity and have influenced our thoughts for just as long. Fantasy being “anything goes” is a low-IQ talking point made by those who want to make excuses for shit-tier fantasy and shit-tier additions to existing fantasy works.
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Also ok
loooooooooooool
Oh, ok again I suppose.
Not meant to spam you. I had reddit tell me my message wasn't posted, so I kept clicking on it to post Anyway, yea, I disagree completely but hey, it's just an opinion.
Lol fuck reddit. And all good. That's why we're all here. To get other perspectives and express our own.
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Ok
Spot on. Lots of people yelling fire.
This was before my time, but it really makes me miss the 90s. It's crazy how different things were back then in media.
Yeah what irritates me the most is that back then we mostly just argued over who had the best theory on what was going to happen in the next movie. I remember in between classes one day when I was in high school I was debating with another guy about Palpatine and how he got so disfigured....was it due to being so old? Was it because he was so corrupt and powerful with the dark side that it was too much for his body to handle? Then Episode 3 came out years later and proved us both wrong....Man that was fun. We never called each other names, never racist, just picked on each other for who had the worst idea.
My mom was one of those teens. I remember when she showed me pictures and told me the story of how my her parents rented a small theatre so her and her 4 siblings could watch the premiere ROTJ alone. She just watched acolyte and was utterly disappointed in what Star Wars has become and she told me she’s rewatching Andor to erase Acolyte from her memory
Seeing this honestly just made me miss the hype that used to be around movie theaters - just hearing the dude on the megaphone announcing “you must be holding your own ticket, have your tickets ready!” took me back when it was exciting going to the movies, it was an event, and there was an energy in the line that built until you got into the theater. Now you either just stream at home or you just walk right in and scan your ticket from your phone at concessions in a mostly empty lobby. The magics just gone. There’s still good movies that come out, but even the most hype movies today are nothing compared to what it was like back then
You notice no one from Star Wars arguing, correct?
Brother, Star Wars was always based mostly on political messages 😂 albeit a different message but political nonetheless
HEY They. Fly. Now. Ok??? Deal with it. They fly now
Uh, what’s arguing over political messages in modern Star Wars? There were more political messages and tropes in the prequels than there were in any of the Disney stuff.
The original trilogy is incredibly political though. More political than the modern projects even with the less than subliminal messaging these days.
That’s actually the problem with the modern stuff. It has no soul. It’s mass produced. It’s just content now, a product. The original trilogy had a story to tell and was incredibly progressive for its time. It had Vietnam War overtones. Lucas is said to have used Richard Nixon as one of his models for Palpatine. Leia and Lando were diverse castings and characters.
Leia and Lando were THE diverse castings. As in the characters that weren't white men. The two characters. I'm fine with shitting on the new projects for being soulless cash grabs that are completely forgettable and have forever ruined the spectacle. But that didn't happen because there's more brown people and women (I know you yourself aren't making this argument, I'm just sayin). The new projects suck because there's no passion, etc. They don't suck because there's more representation within the characters in a story that takes place across several galaxies.
There's a huge difference between containing political themes that are part and parcel of the actual worldbuilding and setting of the show, and hamfistedly forcing a monolithic "modern" political message into every show regardless of how well it fits the worldbuilding and setting. Nobody that complains about something being "political" is complaining that the worldbuilding includes its own set of politics. They're complaining that the worldbuilding is set aside to force real world politics into a given piece of media.
Lucas said OT was an allegory for Vietnam. It always had political undertones
Why even acknowledge the rhetoric? The ones saying these things are clearly the racists and sexista etc. They can't be reasoned with any more than a fanatical cult member can be reasoned with. This is their religion. Could you talk sense into a rabid animal? They cannot "cancel" you or anyone else because they are outnumbered. They are like soldiers of a lost cause refusing to surrender. Their only moves are screaming like a toddler, making ridiculous accusations and paying off people to do the same while pretending they adore the product. (Some actually do they are the cult devotees) I feel sorry for those sucked into this because they need to work or make money (cast and crew mostly).
Pre-internet, when it was still just fun pop-culture movies that that no one took that seriously. More evidence that the world was perhaps a better place before every idiot owned a smartphone and could post their personal bile at random.
The internet gave a way for the dumbest people in society to connect and share their ideas with one another, and spread them to even dumber people. In the past people like this would be relegated to basements and local gatherings where no one really took them seriously. Now they're loud and in your face 24/7. And some of them somehow managed to weasel their way into politics.
I remember when I was young the toxic nerd at the comic book store had no friends and everyone steered clear of them.
Reminds me of this bit: [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5gl5pCFHfo](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5gl5pCFHfo)
He nailed it.
>no one took that seriously Guessing you never met my mum?
The world legitimately was a better place pre-internet, hell even into the early days of the internet, because the negative shit you'd encounter daily came primarily from your local surroundings and possibly any major event that was occurring in the wider world. Nowadays like you pointed out everyone has a voice, all day, everyday, the negativity is ever growing and constant with people of differing opinions always bickering for the world to see. The 90's were fuckin awesome to grow up in
Have to love how all they need now to make an article is a few random tweets and it’s as if it’s gospel
The first bit maybe not so much as I think there have always been people that take things seriously every fandom will always have it, and so long as it's not toxic it can be a positive thing. The second bit, absolutely. Social media is a cancer that's destroying everything and turning people on each other. (conspiracy hat on) intentionally manufactured albeit with actual trolls and vile people out there I think the flames of XYZ issues are fanned by those whose best interests lie in us being divided.
When I was in high school in the late 80's early 90's we had heated arguments in the comic book store all the time Marvel vs DC, Star Wars vs Star Trek, D&D vs Magic. We never got mad at or stopped being friends over it.
I tell my kids about growing up in the 90s and it sounds like I’m from a different planet.
That's because you didn't have the internet. Comparing things to the way they were to how they are now it's futile because the way people interact is entirely different. This post is idiotic for that fact alone.
>that that no one took that seriously If there was a message in it, it was what the Galactic Empire was doing was wrong and the heroes were determined to take a stand against it. That's how a message in a film should be handled, instead of the heavy-handed crap that shows like The Acoshite come out with. Star Wars inspired a generation, it gave us heroes, yes, they were flawed, but they were still heroes and amongst my peers, who didn't want to be as cool as Han Solo, or as noble as Luke? I feel sorry for those watching the Star Wars shows now. Nothing cool, nothing admirable. A terrible end of classic cinema.
“Personal bile at random” twitter was basically adding fuel to the fire huh.
Don't blame the tool...
Love how happy and enthusiastic they all were! Guy at the end, not knowing what to say: “It was a fantastic movie, but it was also really really good.” Shout out to Rainbow Wig Guy for discussing *Dark* Vader.
It’s almost like if you just make a good movie then people of all backgrounds will enjoy it without the need for self-identity to play a central theme.
I don’t hate the sequel trilogy because there’s a female lead. I hate the sequel trilogy because it’s shortly written to make a female lead. FN2187 would have been a superior “Minority” lead for the three movies, and if Rian “I don’t believe in world building” Fucking Johnson didn’t get his grubby hands all over the second movie in the series, people would hate the movies A LOT less. Watch the Throne room fight scene again, they had to edit out a guards weapon because he 100% was about to kill Rey. Why his arm up like that for no reason Rian? Yes there’s A LOT more wrong with TLJ than just that, but that’s one of my biggest issues with it. If they didn’t try to force Rose? On us as a side love interest for Finn, if they didn’t make him puss out at the end of the third one, they could have done a little better, if they didn’t fuck with established lore and also undo 30 years of stated fact of the bad guy is actually dead. Hell if they hadn’t of Disneyfied Starwars they’d have done a lot better also. I LOVED TFA when it dropped, I’ve since soured on it because of Rian. Fuck Rian he, like Snyder should never be allowed to work in Hollywoo.
The Force Awakens was a cynical money grab that asked us to forget Return of The Jedi completely and invalidated Annikans sacrifice. Fuck that movie
The female lead is the ultimate Mary Sue who makes no mistakes and teaches all the older people how they are wrong
What a time. I was in 5th grade. My dad, best friend, and I waited in line for 90 minutes to get into the theater. The excitement, the anticipation - the place was electric. I've never heard a theater get so loud since that night, the original cut of Vader throwing the Emperor into that chasm (a moment that didn't need that awful FrankenVader scream from ROTS edited into it - awful). The place erupted. It honestly felt like the place was going to fall down around us. Stuff like that is normal these days, but back then, for the villain to actually attempt to redeem himself - even a little - at the end of the film was insane. Afterward, my friend stayed overnight at my house, and we spent the whole night talking about what we had just witnessed. One other thing of note from that night that I will never forget: this was before every 2nd person in line was dressed like Darth Nihilus or some shit. So seeing someone dressed up was a new experience. And one that would have been cool if it had been a Star Wars character. But as luck would have it, the dude was dressed like, yes, Mr. Spock. That actually kind of bugged me. And it cemented my disdain for cosplay early in life as one of the local TV stations had cameras at that particular theater that night, and they INTERVIEWED SPOCK, which we saw on the news for that station the next day. My friend and I were trying like idiots to get on camera, and a damn Star Trek character steals our thunder?!?! It was a magical night during a magical time.
The funniest thing to me about those making comments like that is that I know 90% were likely not even born yet when the movie came out. They literally do not have a clue about what they are talking about.
Revenge of the Sith came out in 2005. With that in mind, there are people who are old enough to vote who were born after the Prequels concluded.
Looks like everyone is getting along. The 80s and 90s were the best times.
It’s the Internet. It really fucked things up in a lot of ways.
Yeah, also a lot of meddling from cia and other intelligence agencies that were only looking for ways to slowly but surely change society using the internet. Let me adjust my tin foil hat
All of them! /s I haven't heard the argument that "the original fans of the OT *were* istaphobes" I have heard "current fans of the OT *are* istaphobes." <- this argument may be a load of beans, but the video above doesn't serve to dispute it. More to the point, the argument isn't even worth disputing since the people who present it refuse to engage in good faith discussions/debates with the people they accuse of istaphobia.
Just the way that little boy said "Yeah" was nostalgic to a time gone by
This is the opposite of what your normally see on Reddit and I love it.
The sad part is Star Wars could have added more important black and female characters without making it woke. Seeing this honestly makes me sad. People were out there just loving Star Wars for what it is. Now it's saturated by politics.
Hate the old Star Wars. It was filled with nothing but hatred and racism! They didn’t have lesbian witches or strong Wo-men. Can’t wait for the new movies. Rey is the best
A more civilized time
It's all a made up fight. Losers taking their real world fights and bringing them to star wars. And creating more anger and frustration in the process. That girl who is the lead of acolyte is such a tool.
Star Wars brought people together from any and all backgrounds/race/culture/sex for their love of the story and characters. Now all it does is divide people but yet it's supposed to be more inclusive now?
Things I don't remember: the massive racist backlash over having Billy Dee Williams in two movies and Samuel L. Jackson in three. Things I do remember: people bullying the episode I cast because they read in racism where there was none.
I swear, the racial divide online now is worse than anywhere in the US in the 80s/90s
That's a really rose colored perspective considering things like the anti-Japanese sentiment in the 80s, and the explosion of racial tensions leading up to the OJ Simpson Trial. Nowadays it's just easier for people to see what's going as news spreads through non-traditional outlets. These are a few of the big newsworthy incidents that occured in the 80s and 90s but doesn't really speak to the day to day for large portions of this country. [1980 Miami Riots](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980_Miami_riots) [Killing of Vincent Chin (1985)](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_Vincent_Chin) [1985 MOVE Bombing](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1985_MOVE_bombing) [Central Park Five (1989)](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_Park_jogger_case) [Beating of Rodney King/Killing of Latasha Harlims/LA Riots (1992)](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1992_Los_Angeles_riots) [OJ Simpson Trial (1995)](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murder_trial_of_O._J._Simpson)
The only people that miss the 1980s are the privileged.
Racism and racial tensions is blown up so much by celebrities, politicians, “activists”, etc. Most Americans really don’t give a shit. ESPECIALLY nerds. Thats why they’re the most fun.
All of them are. Everyone in that picture is so obviously racist and toxic. Look! They're all males! And they're Star Wars fans! So, they're obviously racist, toxic, and in desperate need to received the Message on how inferior they are!
It was a fantastic movie, but it was good. Haha I miss the 80s
Holy fucking shit, I’m in that video.
HOW did we go from this to THE JEDI are the bad guys??? How does that happen?????
when everyone was normal and civilized even them.
And they seem to talk like all nerds are white, hetero, men. Interesting how I see plenty of black people and women. Accusing the fans of bigotry is them gaslighting you and everyone that will blindly listen to them. A common thing for Marxists to do is call everyone and everything you don’t like bigots and all opposition to what you say bigotry over and over is what every Marxist uprising has done. It’s funny how they try to say the actor for Anakin in Phantom Menace suffers from mental problems due to toxic fans and yet the mom said she shielded him from it and says his issues would have likely happened regardless and Disney and their shills try to say that’s not how it happened as if they know more than the guys MOTHER!
Not enough lesbian witches
Makes me think they want to create division among us
I just see a bunch of happy people. All different sizes, shapes, and colors. Franchise has been diverse forever. It's been accessible by many forever. Look at all those honest responses in those interviews. Everyone knew they belonged in that theater.
I just see a bunch of happy people. All different sizes, shapes, and colors. Franchise has been diverse forever. It's been accessible by many forever. Look at all those honest responses in those interviews. Everyone knew they belonged in that theater.
Simple story celebrating universal themes of duty, friendship, sacrifice and honor. No politics, no agenda, and most importantly, giving the fans the ending they wanted.
The 80s was such a vibe, minus the weird amount of serial killers.
Now let's get clips and blogs of how people reacted to Jar Jat Binks
I waited all day in line on opening weekend to see Return of the Jedi
At least one of those guys had to have wrote hate mail to Ahmed Best or Jake Lloyd
Clearly the current Lucasfilm staff live in a different reality.
when everyone was normal and civilized even them.
Where are the accusations of being sexist coming from?
Star Wars has always been very progressive.
Must be a parallel universe activated by CERN...
This is the inherent problem with Star Wars. The Empire cannot be woke, the empire needs to be all old white men. Something the proud boys will like, like a lemon party. Because they are Space Nazis. The rebellion can be multicultural and have aliens and such. They got it so wrong.
Makes me sad to see how happy and united the fans were then compared to the divisive rage bate crap being produced now.
Back when you really loved Star Wars.
Representation is important. But yes turning a movie Into a social diversity showcase and making the story the background is a mistake on fundamental levels. It hurts the people they want to Include more than helps. The reason the diversity is so in your face in movies and shows is an attempt to try and gain sympathy. But execs only know how to do things over board in hopes of getting attention. Basically controversy is stronger in getting headlines than "instant classic film"
I miss the time when this franchise used to excite me like that. Heck I miss the time it made me feel anything, even anger at how bad it's gotten. Now I just feel nothing towards it. Another bad show or movie? Who actually cares, that's what it is now and what it's going to be until they lose too much money and move on to the next trend. That's the tragedy at the end of the day, making fans uninterested with it all
Yep, I was 8 years old when my parents took me to see Return Of The Jedi when it came out. I remember it because the line to get in was HUGE and everyone was excited.
Behave like a sane human prior to social media challenge level: Easy
Disney is still struggling to reach Spaceballs quality with their trash versions of Star Wars lol.
Clearly they were born racist they just didn't become it until Disney bought the franchise
I can. Those same fans flamed the prequels.
Originally have politics that matters, politics about war and state of world. Sequels have distraction politics, politics about woke liberal, and it really distracts the masses from the actual problem.
Gotta love that Dark Vader.
It's sad that movies and people that love those movies can't just enjoy the experience like they did back then. It makes me sad when my kids don't even want to watch the new movies because they know at some point there is gonna be a part that is just there because someone felt inclusions was more important than story.
Black guys were hired by Pierce Morgan. Women were blackmailed into it by Trump out of fear he’ll grab em by the….. Seriously tho, SW was always about the story. People loved the adventure… regardless of background or race. Now the woke idiots who were never fans of SW in the first place want to F that up. I reject them.
How the mighty have fallen lol StarWars now is garbage
Yeah I can spot them. In this comment section.
Bill Nighy circus afro Guy ?
No the toxic racists came with being internet cowards.
Who has ever said that the 1983 fans of Star wars were particularly racist? It seems like you're intentionally conflating commentary about today with 40 years ago. But that would be pretty dishonest...
Nobody talks about this or thinks about this stuff as much as this sub. If anything you’re forwarding the narrative you’re claiming is being pushed on you. Even if you were completely correct and there was an agenda being pushed, is this not doing the *exact* same thing and trying to push the opposite agenda? The “woke-free” mentality so to speak? Maybe think about that. Maybe think about the fact that most people don’t consume their mind with this NEARLY as much as people in this sub and by extension Critical Drinker fans.
Yeah, I can spot them. And I can help you do it too. Turn your screen off.
come on guys lets not pretend like the fanbase doesn't have racist people. the star wars fandom has a bad reputation for plenty of reason.
This is where star wars started to suck.
Jesus this sub…
fuck me, Americans are wild. Who behaves like this at a cinema? You guys need to dial it down a notch or 10 😬
If this is an attempt at trolling, good one. If not, what exactly is the problem? All I see are a whole lot of fans having a fun time and enjoying a great film with each other.
It’s not trolling. I’ve just never understood the mentality. It’s like Americans feel like they have to put on a show of how enthusiastic they are, and then outdo each other in thier show of enthusiasm - for everything.
Yeah it's called having fun.
Murica! Fuck yeah!
It must be difficult being jealous of the greatest place to live. Hopefully wherever you're at gets on our level one day.
He doesn't clap for the popcorn machine? NGMI