Same. It was unbelievably bad last night. Unloading entire magazines into opponents and suddenly they'd (seemingly) one-shot me, melee hits not registering, health bars jumping up and down, supers straight up disappearing. Frustrating to say the least.
Yep, I've unloaded mags into people and they don't take damage. THEN I've thought on MULTIPLE occasions that I got damage glitched or two-tapped by a 120 or 140, only to check the player's inventory and there's no damage perk (like golden tricorn or something).
Don't even get me started one the 30 games I've played without a single multimach drop.
For me the latency-related jank has been worse than usual even by Iron Banner standards (which are historically worse than other modes to begin with).
I'm sure it doesn't help that the node is split into two modes (Tribute and Control) currently at a time when they need to be collapsing the population into fewer nodes, and not spreading it out into more.
(That said, I'm not finding it literally unplayable, just some slightly more frustrating interactions than usual)
> at a time when they need to be collapsing the population into fewer nodes, and not spreading it out into more.
I fully agree, there are so many nodes.
I honestly don't know the algorithm it uses. But it doesn't feel like standard Control at all. It feels like decently aggressive SBMM in there.
Probably not helped by the fact that FTMM sucks and the fact that they've split the playlist into the really stupid Gambit mode that shouldn't have ever come back and Control.
I think the issue is in your 2nd paragraph. The vast majority of casuals in particular are going to be playing the Tribute mode, simply because it's the default one. Half the population legitimately won't even realize that you can select a different mode in the first place.
So right away if you're playing the classic control, the population pool you're playing in is probably like 20% of the full population playing Iron Banner... Of that group, it's going to be full of "sweats" because the Tribute mode is something different and we all know how Destiny PVP players react to change that isn't perfect.
Tbf though, I'd much rather get put against people above my skill level and realize I'm dying to being put played, vs being killed by Jim Bob over here because he has a .05 net speed.
Never understood people's issue with CBMM. And no, I'm by no means a top tier player trying to kill shitters, I'm somewhere in the middle around a 1.15 KD so there's plenty of people way better than I am that I'd also have to face.
Completely agreed. Although there's definitely a level of bias in my opinion as I am generally one of those top 0.1% players(I'm a 2.55 KD player) where SBMM early on made the game feel largely unplayable, but especially in quickplay modes the focus should just be on getting quality connection games far more then anything else should matter. I also think playing players that are significantly better then you is absolutely the best way to actually improve. I wasn't always a top 0.1% player. When I first started gaming back in the Halo 3 days for example I struggled for almost a year to reach a skill rank of 20, on Call of Duty 4(The first Cod I played) I was thrilled the day my total kills exceeded my total deaths for the first time almost 25,000 kills into the game(I even remember the game it happened on).
Even in the beginnings of Destiny 2 and "Trials of the Nine" being that super competitive mode, I played to a \~1.7 KD and only went flawless a couple times. When I returned to Destiny 2 before Beyond Light after a 2.5 year break, I was shit at the game.
But playing lots and playing lots of good players is how you learn good habits, good map awareness, movement, heat zones, etc. and that's how you improve.
Yeah I definitely agree playing better players really helps you improve, but only if you really pay attention to what they are doing and not getting upset and calling bullshit the whole time, which I have to say, a lot of the casual or 'I hate crucible' player base does. But yeah I went from never being able to get a single win in trials, to being able to go flawless just about any week I dedicate myself to trying. It's gotten to the point I enjoy trials more than any other crucible playlist.
No doubt. The corny thing is the 3 Game Garys who don't touch PVP act like SBMM implemented is this big comeuppance for any sweat who wants to stomp and it ends up making the experience suck for a lot of ordinary arguably average people when stuff flies off a cliff and games are so inconsistent. I feel like Bungie is so checked out at this point and I don't what they're smoking acting like some of these changes are going to inspire and encourage people on the fence this late to get into pvp and stay there consistently.
i never noticed any real difference between sbmm and cbmm in my play sessions. it's just this boogeyman to blame losses on like xim and zen because theres no objective evidence of any of those things. So you cant DISPROVE the other guy was ximming or SBMM beat my dog. also, it's not sbmm, it's part cbmm and sbmm. my guess is it's well tilted towards cbmm.
put it this way, i'm on xbox. i've been in lobbies with true vanguard the biggest sbmm hater out there many times. his lobbies are full of mediocre players. what is he even complaining about?
no major network issues through ten yrs of playing a lot of crucible either.
much bigger issue for me is after the counter in the lower right goes away on MM (IE, it found a match, I guess?), the game often seems to hang up. you will just float in orbit interminably before finally flying in to the match. happens like every 4th or 5th match if i was guessing. It seems to have gotten better recently, it hangs for less time, but still seems to be a thing.
where is the line for that now?
I normally have a rougher experience with SBMM. long queue times, extremely wide skill range that starts barely under me as the baseline and ends with 2.5+ K/D players, all while team balancing ensured a 36% and 40% W/L across the last 2 seasons of IB I played (72 and 61 matches). and im just a ~1.34 K/D player, which isnt all that high to begin with.
IB control so far has been fantastic in comparison, so much that I legitimately thought it was the whole "SBMM in name only" outlier protection matchmaking.
Queues have been faster than normal, vast majority of games have been close and skill ranges are between ~2K/D players and <0.8K/D, with my last loss even being due to having a new light on his literal second ever match of crucible (poor bastard went 3-18, cant even fault them for it). Hell, there hasnt been any big lag either, only a single instance so far of a slightly delayed kill notification.
---
seems like im having an outlier experience though. ill take what I can get while I can. Have had 0 luck getting either new gun to drop, be it post-game or from engrams, lots of snipers and shotguns along with the worthless armor
sure and your proof is?
it just seems harder to me. these players arent on my level theyre above it. sbmm would seek to match you with similar players not better ones.
i never know when mm goes through a hard spell with this game. i typically blame it on a declining population, and only the sweats being left. the fact is after ten yrs most are pretty good at this game. but the truth is it's always a big ol shrug. over time it typically evens out.
recently had some comp matches against .6 k.d bots, i personally dont feel any better about that if not worse. no fun beating up on probably little kids. maybe fun for you, as you are anti-sbmm, not me. but it is good for the k/d i guess.
ib seems to have evened out a little. like i said my last two comp matches were just kinda sad though. total walkovers.
My proof is playing the game, if you can’t tell the difference between control and iron banner than idk what to tell you. It seems pretty obvious to everyone else but you.
A complete middle of the road player WOULDN'T feel a difference I suppose.
I absolutely feel a difference and my IB win rate these past 2 seasons is HALF or less than my life long win rate. Sbmm would be fun if it wasn't just trash lobby balancing with a 20% chance to win for MY team over and over.
i straight up didn't know control was an option i thought that was regular control-control and didn't click lol i suffered through 20-something tribute matches thinking it was the only option. thank GOD i saw someone ask if they should be farming in tribute or control.
I don't think Bungie made any updates to the IB SBMM like they have been with regular Control. This feels like the first SBMM version they shipped out to us when they first brought it back a while ago.
> Probably not helped by the fact that FTMM sucks
This cannot be further highlighted and it's frustrating we never got an intended change that was supposed to take larger considerations of physical makeup of the fireteam, see the "big crucible article" intended for Season of Defiance's mid season patch, this was supposed to be addressed a literal year ago and Bungie said nothing.
The worst part is now with that whole "snake draft" and other thing that they recently experimented with, the matchmaking trips over itself and can barf out a 4-5 stack of the most sweaty people , and they'll have 1-2 afk casuals on their team as if that's the big fairness equalizer for the stack's ability, even though nobody on the opposing team is anywhere close in ability to that stack, making it so lopsided off the drop.
I am curious how bad the population is hurting at this point, because I feel like I haven't had a normal day of 6s PVP with any semblance of consistency in awhile. I've had way too many things with recent changes of stuff where I go like 3W 7L with the wins peppered between hell nightmares and this is consciously backing out if I just kept on getting the same stacks.
I love that Bungie acknowledged what we all knew: FBMM was strictly overriding SBMM and making for a shit experience for casual players who want to play socially (and driving them out of the playlists), and yet we still get threads like the one today where every comment is shitting on a guy for losing 15 straight while trying to play with his friends.
I’m normally pretty on board with the attitudes of this sub, but that one grates me.
The more frustrating aspect is the solution they proposed was actually really sane and it's so weird why they didn't push for it. [Here](https://www.bungie.net/7/en/News/article/lightfall-crucible-update) is the big article for context.
I just never understood Bungie's persistence to gut any true casual playlist that isn't bogged down by so much stuff. Even for just a videogame in general especially Bungie having a history of appealing to a more loose aspect, it's weird to see any sort of non-party mode casual playlist absent.
I try to not take it to personal but that one twab when they announced certain changes and basically tried to pass off (paraphrasing) "if you want to play with friends and have looser games, go play private matches" just rubbed me such a wrong way as somebody who has a clan of various pvp ability people.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFnUrPASYbg&pp=ygUMdHJ1ZXZhbmd1YXJk
I've noticed lobby balancing being kinda wonky but as he points out here, matches starting unfilled indicates an even bigger matchmaking problem.
I love FTMM. I realize people who dislike it want to stomp, and not only be better but also have an unfair numbers and team communicatioon advantage too. But, just get better?
or just buy a barrell and put some fish in it and start shooting them? same effect. why do you have to come in videogames? i fail to see whats fun about that but thats you i guess.
It is by far the sweatiest playlist for me, but when I look at the players in the matches, the range is super wide (i.e. .6 KD trials players in a lobby with 2.0 KD players).
So it feels like super tight SBMM, but the player gap is super side (maybe im just having bad luck with team balance).
"ftmm sucks"=i like to run around in a 6 stack and stomp and now i dont get to, i actually have to play competition. Allow me to cry salty tears for you.
No, I'd like the system to actually work. 2-3 stacks are in the solo queue (keep in mind a decent 3-stack can completely run a lobby) and not attempted to be equalized.
4+ Stack games are still completely miserable to the point where I still just requeue if I see a team size bigger than 3.
If I could opt out of being the +1 in a stacked game, and 3 stacks weren't in the same pool as solos, that'd be good design. But at that point, you may as well just have Freelance vs. non-Freelance back to fracture the player pool less.
I rarely ever stack, FTMM just doesn't function properly.
I completely agree with this. Last night I queued into an Iron Banner match that put ALL Three double stack teams ( incredibly sweaty trials-like players ) into the opposite side and my team was literally just a handful of new light solo players with armor, builds and skills to prove it. I hung in there to finish the wildly unbalanced match, only to be tea bagged over and over by the sweats who had three times the score we did by the end. How is MM still this ridiculous?
Yeah, and it’s actively discouraging right now. I want to grind for the gl, and I already reset once so I can grind for the new shader (I like to collect free/bright dust shaders
I’ve never been great at pvp, but I’ve always enjoyed it. I can’t play more than a couple matches now without wanting to delete the game. There’s other games, for its near time to let destiny die.
if you're any decent at the game, you have two options.
play solo. you'll have to drop 30-40 raw kills and likely still lose the game
play full stack. you'll need everyone in your stack to be on your skill level (2.0kd+).
IB is using the old SBMM lobby balancing system so you cant play with friends that are worse than you and you need to hard carry every lobby pretty much.
I'm seeing the same thing. I just hit my 45th reset yesterday and every game had people teleporting, teammates walking into walls for 5 seconds then teleporting, supers that pop twice because of latency.
I also generally hate 6s. It's supposed to be casual but it feels like the sweatiest playlist. And it doesn't help that all I get is Disjunction, Fortress, and Vostok. I genuinely have more fun in Trials playing 1 map over and over all weekend.
My games have been stomps, mostly towards my team. I dont understand how people keep saying the mode has strict SBMM; there is something fundementally wrong with the matchmaking.
Unfortunately posts calling attention to matchmaking are typically frowned upon.
I've said it before, but there's something specific about Iron Banner which gives it awful connections, worse than any other PvP mode.
That said, outside of a few teleporting console players, it's been alright so far today.
I only play crucible/trials solo. It's a lottery for sure, but it's also the only time I play significantly worse players than myself (with the exception of GG Supremacy, which was a blast). Control and Comp are always a pure meta sweatfest for me, which can be fun sometimes, but Trials feels like a break from that with the amount of lower skilled players jumping in. Matchmaking can crush you for sure though, I went on like a 8 game losing streak in Trials Monday night where every game I had the shittiest team. Is what it is.
Normal 6s is fine since the SBMM is only really to the point where you're not matching gods with new players.
Banner doesn't seem to use the normal 6s matchmaking, opting for a much, much stricter SBMM.
We are having very different experiences in 6’s my lobbies are all flawless, adept, ascendant sweat fest. I trying to figure out where are all the regular players.
SBMM really is mostly removed. Don't believe what people here will tell you.
The "SBMM" they do have now is essentially just outlier protection. If every player was given a rank from 1 to 50 tomorrow. The SBMM we have in place(At least in quickplay 6v6, Iron Banner might be different tbh) essentially makes sure the 1-5 skilled players and the 46-50 players don't match each other.
Otherwise, everyone from 6-50 is fair game.
Not for Iron Banner. The tweaks to SBMM over the past few seasons to land on the current iteration of outlier protection have not been applied to Iron Banner. It's still using the first implementation of Strict SBMM.
If there have been any changes, they haven't mentioned it in any TWIDs or patch notes specifying Iron Banner.
Its definitely possible, like I said. I dont think original Iron Banner SBMM was ever quite as strict as what the original quickplay SBMM was, but based on my personal statistical evidence I would say there's a pretty good chance Iron Banner SBMM has not changed.
Here's a rundown of the evidence from my experience here using my gameplay data: [https://destinytracker.com/destiny-2/profile/bungie/4611686018430452937/overview?mode=crucible](https://destinytracker.com/destiny-2/profile/bungie/4611686018430452937/overview?mode=crucible)
* SBMM was introduced in Season 18, the season before that I personally had a 3.21 KD in Control, and a 3.54 KD in Iron Banner, across 750+ games.
* In Season 18(The first with SBMM), my KD dropped to 1.78 in Control, 2.70 in IB, across 250 games(I stopped playing halfway through this season specifically due to frustrations of the ridiculous SBMM in Quickplay and being forced into the meta)
* In Season 19 I had a 2.21 KD in Control, and a 2.13 KD in IB across 200 games(Again, stopped playing PVP pretty quickly due to SBMM)
* In Season 20, a 1.79 KD in Control, 2.00 KD in IB across 180 games(This was Lightfall launch season, most of my time was PVE/Raiding quite frankly this season).
* In Season 21, a 1.82 KD in Control, 1.93 KD in IB across 300 games.
* Season 22, a 2.22 KD in Control, 1.83 KD in IB across 420 games. This is where they started to loosen SBMM, and about halfway through last season IIRC is when they started to implement the "Outlier protection" that we have now.
* Season 23, a 2.43 KD in Control, 2.22 KD in IB across 570 games. Also worth pointing out that in Supremacy this season(A playlist that is 100% CBMM) I am at a 3.13 KD with 125 games played.
As someone who's a top 0.1% player, absolutely without a doubt the SBMM in Control has gotten extremely relaxed over the last 2 seasons, and it really is just outlier protection at this point. And I would say the evidence pretty clearly lies in the fluctuations of my statistics over the last 7 seasons from pre-SBMM to what we have now.
The swings in IB are much smaller, which I would say points to the possibility that some form of true SBMM is probably in existence in the mode. Since in theory for top 0.1% players our KD would be higher in IB given its generally a more casual mode that people play then just normal quickplay.
Here's my stats for comparison. It'd take me a long time to copy the data from DTR to here as DTR is a pain to navigate on my phone.
https://destinytracker.com/destiny-2/profile/psn/RiderVPG/overview?mode=crucible
I'm not that good of a player so feel free to use my stats as an example from someone lower down the skill curve.
Yeah I would say your stats very strongly corelate to my stats as well. Here's a short breakdown of yours:
* In Season 17, you were a 1.71 in Control, and a 2.02 in IB across 266 matches. This was the season before SBMM started where it was purely connection based and nothing else.
* In Season 18 when SBMM kicked in, you were a 1.29 in Control, a 1.91 in IB across 280 matches.
* In Season 21, you were a 1.49 in Control, and a 1.15 in Iron Banner across 140 matches.
* Now, in season 23 where SBMM has been relaxed a lot in quickplay especially, you're currently a 1.71 in Control, and a 1.43 in IB across 270 matches.
So almost the exact same trends as my stats. Basically between the two of us which combined has thousands of games worth of a sample size... You could reasonably deduce that:
* Up to season 17, SBMM did not exist at all in. Season 18 was a very strict SBMM in Control, while very loose or non-existent(I dont think they introduced SBMM in IB until Season 19 honestly IIRC).
* Season 19 through Season 21 had basically the same SBMM parameters, slightly looser then Season 18 but still pretty tight matchmaking and it was across both IB and Quickplay.
* Season 22 they started to looses the SBMM in Control and IB. And now in Season 23 SBMM is largely non-existent in Quickplay, instead we have the simple outlier protection and that's about it. Iron Banner still suggests some level of SBMM, but again not nearly as strong as we had during the roughest seasons of SBMM from 19-21.
And honestly this data really does go hand in hand with what Bungie has told us. The first iteration of SBMM was extremely tight. Since then pretty much every matchmaking update they've made has been designed to loosen those parameters.
Normal 6s is fantastic now, not even trying to be rude when I say it is legitimately a skill issue if you feel like SBMM is a problem in normal control.
It's because a lot of people especially on this sub in recent years, don't realize that they aren't actually top tier players in the game, but they all think they are. Those players are the ones who's lobbies are actually tougher in general than they were with SBMM in effect.
Yeh for sure. I see a lot of people on this sub complain about matching flawless titles and ascendant emblems but these days a lot of those players are somewhere between 1.0-1.4KD. they’re just letting themselves get intimidated by nothing really
I guarantee that just isn't true, the statistical evidence on my account alone(And I am a clear top 0.1% player) very clearly shows just how relaxed SBMM is now compared to its launch. But also like I said, sounds like a skill issue if you aren't capable of playing with your team or playing smarter again even slightly better opponents.
You may want to re-read what I said.
My lobbies are pretty much all adept and ascendant. Logically Your point is not invalid. It is probably a skill issue in the same way if you didn’t think strict SBMM is fantastic that’s a skill issue as well.
Second where did I say “not capable”? You’re making a lot of ignorant assumptions. You said it was fantastic. But most good players don’t like team shooting metas. We also don’t like lobbies filled with nothing but high skill players. Because you have to play to serious and that sucks in quick play.
I read what you said perfectly fine.
SBMM is extremely relaxed to the point it barely even exists. I'm a top 0.1% player and none of my lobbies are anywhere close to as sweaty as you think they are and I absolutely don't have to play serious, hell I've spent half my games this season using DIM Random loadouts to because SBMM is so relaxed and games are easier now.
"Most good players don't like team shooting" is the ignorant assumption. Really what you should have said was "Most good players don't like facing players who can shoot back" because the reality is any actual good player in the game is utilizing teams and team shot themselves plenty.
Like I said, sounds like a skill issue for you.
Wrong….i know what my lobbies are because i check. Sounds to me like I’m just at a higher level than you.
Yeah you’re right…people love hand holding metas. Lol…you’re definitely not a top tier player. Stop the cap. 😂
If anything, it sounds to me like you're probably a mid tier player that thinks they're higher in the skill bracket then they actually are... And the lack of SBMM simply means you're matching players that are better than you at a much higher rate than before.
https://destinytracker.com/destiny-2/profile/xbl/Tlaloc/overview
Yeah, top 0.4% for KD(Even with all the cheaters ahead of me), top 0.2% ELO across all the game modes... Clearly not a top player. Stop clowning yourself.
Only CBMM mode is Trials. Maybe some random smaller mode but casual, IB and Comp are SBMM and FBMM with an additional filter in comp of computer predetermined rank. (I.E if Bungie thinks you belong in Plat that's what you'll be pushed towards)
Solely Computer predetermined rank based matchmaking hasn’t been a thing for a few seasons now in comp.
It’s RBMM with anti-Smurf protections using computer predetermined rank.
IB usually is pretty bad, but for some reason they made the awful choice to yet again split the playlist for an event. I really don’t know why they insist on making the matchmaking worse in the face of a declining PvP population.
IB should be connection-based with fireteam based MM and lobby balancing. We have comp, they don’t need to dilute the population with SBMM for 6s anymore.
Oh man, I'm getting punished severly for my good bandwith. I don't know whether it's severe packet loss, but on my screen I'm getting one shot from something like an igneous all the time. I also usually get put on the team that doesn't know how to bank crests so within the first couple of minutes the other team will have 20+ and our team will have the 3 or so that only I have banked. I just leave and requeue at that point.
Network is awful but so is matchmaking. Played 9 games yesterday and lost the first 8, despite being top kills/score or atleast second for every single one. We were getting smashed too, it was clear from the start of the games that the teams were horribly balanced unless I absolutely popped off.
Then the game took pity on me and gave me a stacked team on the 9th. I barely had to do anything and the win just felt cheap.
It’s because the pop is so low, being split between waaaaay too many playlists, and fbmm . It’s trying to find people of even skill but ends up just being really jank with a coating of extreme latency on top.
Thought I was crazy. Multiple people teleporting, just dying after I had already killed someone or them just not taking any damage while running towards me. I kept constantly checking my internet to see if it was me but I was good. I feel better knowing it’s not just me experiencing these types of matches.
I can barely finish a game I've played about 10 today and finished maybe 3 of them. I just gave up. Bee, baboon, weasel ect... im ethernet connected no wifi no router ect... it's definitely on bungies side. They don't do maintenance and the whole thing falls apart.
Connections are horrendous.
Feels like the matchmaking algorithm is a bit different than standard Control.
Is FTMM on in this mode? The amount of 4+ stacks I ran into as a solo yesterday was annoying. All they do is 3,2,1 you as soon as you come around the corner.
I haven't played today yet but i played prolly 3 hours of it yesterday and was fine, I did have 1-3 people overall who had bad lag and would die like 5 seconds later but otherwise it wasn't bad. That was on pc with 1 gig ethernet for reference.
The sbmm is annoying tho, even tho it was the most enjoyable games of the night, I played 4 games in a row with the exact same people, a stacked clan vs a stacked clan + me.
Side note, switch the game type off tribute, that mode is just painful.
Yo I thought it’s just me! Nearly every game there’ll be at least 1 or 2 players teleporting, or maybe I’m the one who’s lagging… I dunno! I’d just be walking on my merry way and then boom I’m dead and the player who killed me is outlined and wtf he’s inside a wall??
I had one lobby where someone was inside the walls shooting players. I got a couple hit markers randomly shooting at the wall. Also, everyone wasn't playing, they were standing around emoting. So strange. It was fun to drop a hvy crown splitter on three of em in a well.
Weird lobbies this week, don't think I'm gonna play it.
IB uses stricter than normal SBMM to cater to the casuals who dip in for PvE as to keep people in their skill band separated from the more dedicated PvPers. But this isn’t anything new, and gets worse as population dips. I’m not even super cracked (1.7/1.3) yet most of my IB games are outright unplayable. It’s really a bad look for Bungie and PvP in general.
It feels super laggy, but almost likes the game is dropping frames now. Anyone else getting that?
I was seeing it a bit on Cauldron in trials 2 weeks ago, but now its basically every IB game.
Yeah, it's been horid.
Not great matchmaking
Bad connections
Toxicity everywhere
Teams of 6 solo q vs. teams of multiple 2 and 3 stacks
Half of the team not knowing you have to dunk for points because bungie doesn't explain the game mode
AND ABYSMAL DROP RATES FOR THE WEAPONS, THE ONLY REASON IM PLAYING
I've reset rank w/ Shax twice since it came out and still haven't gotten a single drop of either of the new weapons.
I'm also getting really tired of the teamshot meta. It's not fun on either end. I want duels, not firing lines.
really bad connections last night i stopped playing because of teleporting. started playing today and out of 3 matches, 2 of them was very laggy. not a very good start so far tbh lol
Literally every game is a stomp. It's impossible to enjoy for me so I've completely quit caring about winning or performance in this game. Only played to get tusk and will only play to stockpile engrams for next IB.
Not to mention the lag as of late. It's just an awful experience.
After playing a game and a half of the bullshit engram collecting mode, I’m sticking with good ol’ Control. Seems to be night and day for me.
Still haven’t gotten Multimach of Tusk to drop
Oh man, I thought I was crazy for being over 30 resets this season. I played maybe 20 matches last night (DTR not working right now) and only quit maybe 2 over lag issues. That's pretty much the same as regular Control for me.
As usual, guns that "kill in 4 shots" take 8 a lot of the time, but I'm so used to that at this point the lag has to be even worse for me to quit (since... maybe I missed a few of those 8 shots and it wasn't lag). Once I dump a whole SMG into someone who doesn't have an overshield at close range and they live or who is teleport lagging then I'm out. I only had a couple of matches that were that bad. USA West coast prime time.
Oh and yeah, I match the same people plenty but that's no different than in non-IB Control. Also more and more clans from around the world, so the game seems to be really struggling to fill matches.
Unless something has changed, IB and QP Control no longer use loose SBMM. They are using that new outlier protection scheme outlined in the 02/22 TWID under the heading of **Already Live**. I know game text says other-wise, but you know Bungie /grin
https://www.bungie.net/7/en/News/article/this-week-in-destiny-02-22-24
**Replaced the loose skill-based matchmaking in Iron Banner and Control with the new outlier protection matchmaking system.**
People are saying they think B is lying. Funny too, today B announced measures to ban people for manipulating SBMM which…that TWID basically says doesn’t exist. so… I’m not sure they are telling the truth either.
Loading matches last night was a bit slow.
But I think on a whole different level, Tribute kind of sucks. I’m just not enjoying it. Supremacy with an extra step. I swapped back to Iron Banner Control.
I've had the same issue with teleporting. Splitting the lobbies across two different game modes is hurting an already low population. I see fewer teleporting and connection issues when I play tribute as compared to control. I think a lot of people don't realize that you can change the game mode so with tribute being the default the populations in that mode are higher. It sucks because you are either stuck with an okay connection in tribute which is a terrible game mode or a terrible connection in control.
6v6 is generally just dogshit, thankfully I already have my BotF and Occluded God rolls (which are useless now, thanks bungie) so I don't have to play this garbage gamemode.
I've been feeling it too, partly due to connection but mostly SBMM, i know it's the most popular complaint but it really does get annoying to be unable to casually play pvp. I'm not even crazy at the game, 1.6 and adept which I feel isn't high enough in the bracket to be getting the esports olympics ass lobbies I'm always put in. I love pvp but I feel like I'm being punished for trying to be good at it. I can't play with any friends because they just don't have fun getting stomped, and playing alone usually feels shitty too because I need to go trials levels of concentration and sweat to compete in my matches. Genuinely its been feeling like trials is less sweaty than IB or comp lately.
It's SBMM, magnified by one of the best metas for teamshotting that's ever existed and a stacks-against-solos matchmaking process. *Of course* it feels like trash.
And it's entirely intended by the "Crucible Strike Team."
I’m having a lot of bullets not register and a delay between getting a shotty kill and the enemy dying. Sometimes I shoot my second shot thinking the first one missed just to watch them die a millisecond before the second round goes off
Played 4 matches today. Three mercies against me and one against the enemy with only summoners beaming and really bad connections. Decided that's enough for the week
The IB Control playlist was basically unplayable. I found IB Tribute had better games. My guess would be that it’s either because there’s more people playing it, since it’s the default, or that, since it’s new, SBMM hasn’t had time to get as spread yet - or both. Of course, then you have to play Tribute. I really hated it at first, but now I’m so-so on it.
All my matches are a stomp one way or another. In my opinion the matchmaking is bad any time they split the pool between modes within IB, now that there are like 8 diff crucible modes then modes within modes. The game does not have the player population to support this imo
yeah i’ve been experiencing bad latency and damage glitches. like i’ll peak someone and they shoot me and then i hide and suddenly i’m sitting at 5 hp from full.
I noticed this too last night. I'm very new to pvp (in Destiny 2 at least) and the first couple games went good. I stopped for 20 or so minutes and went back in and it seemed no matter what I did, I couldn't stay alive for more then 15 seconds. I had multiple people I landed half a magazine or better into their heads and their shield wouldn't even break. Or at best I'd break their shield but die from 1 hit melee in return. I noticed too, that even my weapons didn't feel crisp while using them, if that makes sense.
Well the run of quality matches was nice while it lasted. Aimbots are out today, reported several. Buzz kill MFers. And to think....you pay to get subjected to this sh*t. Kinda like college.
It hasn’t been THAT bad for me on console, but I played some games with my pc friend and immediately faced teleporting players with timelost internet connections. I couldn’t kill them and they’d one shot me or damage glitch me and it’s annoying because it isn’t hacking so I’m not sure what I can even do besides ask my buddy to take us out of the match, which is unfair to our teammates
I’ve played at least 30-40 games, not one tusk of the boar
Worst connections I’ve ever had in my entire life trying to play this game.
I don’t even know why I kept trying to play. It was taking what felt like close to a second for any of my shots to register. And it was consistently bad, all night. I would get a 3 tap with igneous run away and reload before the kill would actually register. If I didn’t literally run away I’d just drop dead from the guy I 3 tapped that wasn’t even looking at me.
I’m gotten use do dealing with rough connections with skill based, but yesterday was on a completely different level of fuckery.
Yeah had the same problem last night. Every game of Tribute has teammates standing around waiting for crests to drop only to all funnel into the same lane and die to a cloud strike. Control is no better, just a mix of bad lobby balancing and teammates playing clash without playing obj.
I know that 99% of the time when server issues provide a negative experience there are console players in my lobby. I can not think of a single reason why consoles can opt out of cross play but pc can’t. Please ffs just give me the same options as consoles.
A few games yesterday. But not too much. Could it be your location?
I played like a dozen or more games and only experienced this stuff a couple times and neither was enough to ruin the match for me
Played 18 matches yesterday evening/night between 6:30 PM EST to 11:00 EST (roughly) and I think in two of the matches there were two people ttl (1 per match) that had some pretty awful connections. Like moving like a Taken Captain and then snapping back into place. Other then that, it was okay.
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Balance wise, the matches feel okay? There's been maybe 3-4 matches where I felt like my teammates were oblivious to the idea of holding at least one zone... but I figured I'd chalk that up to PvE players who maybe don't regularly play PvP not fully comprehending what they're supposed to do and we've i've had 2 mercies in my favor and 2 mercies not in my favor.
Had the same experience yesterday, the lobbys were laggy asf, everyone teleporting, today it was normal in terms of connection, but the skill base matchmaking is definitely there, the game are super sweaty
I was seeing way too many shotgun / melee seem like they did zero damage. Lots of starting matches with lopsided teams like 5v6 etc. One time I started a match with 2v6. It takes forever to fill in (if it even does) so yeah... I left that one.
I lost to a team with mostly sub 1 k/ds because they had one dude with a 9.8 or some wild shit. I was also the only person on my team with a k/d above 1 (1.5) and there was one person who had a 0.08???
I think the 9.8 guy was lagging or hacking though so maybe it was just the regular bullshit
I don’t know why, but I just had four straight games where the opposing team was made up of duos or trios matched and I had five solos.
I know mathematically the odds are there, but still, seems to be rewarding team up play (which also led to a lot of deathballing) as opposed to solo play.
My advice? Find the best person in your team and follow them around the map.
My first 10 matches in IB on day 1 were all in progress mercy losses. Have not left a single match in IB and yet continue to get put on teams where someone is leaving or the team is getting absolutely demolished. For reference this season I am a 1.7 KD newish to crucible. Its truly mindblowing how bad this shit is.
When they first introduced SBMM it was definitely this bad in IB. Feels like it got better for a season or two though and now we're back to this. Possible I'm just forgetting how awful it was after 9 weeks of trials though.
My experience has been good. All matches as 6v6, have not seen a single airmbot - yet. No glitching except for blink users.
Last week in 6s though.....some of the strangest lobbies I've ever had to start matches.
2v6. I'm in the 2. Literally, the pre-match spawn screen has me & one other player standing there lol.
4v4. Randoms v. 4 stack. I'm with the randoms.
6v5. I'm with 5 randoms v 6 stack.
4v5 or 6. All randoms. Sometimes I'm in the 4, sometimes the 6. Sometimes help arrives late, sometimes not.
Bungie's MM TWID, which read like the tax code, said randoms v stacks was around a .05% chance occurrence. Yeah. Not.
Sometimes the 4 or 5 v 6 can make for an interesting challenge, I'm not completely opposed....as long as it's all randoms.
In those matches when you're a late spawn....some are predetermined slaughters, but others are a blast rallying from behind for a win or tight finish.
But IB has been good in my neck of the woods.
I bet IronBanner is using the matchmaking parameters of 2 month ago, when it was last up. We had some significant changes in the matchmaking since then and somebody probably forgot to update the config file.
I personally have seen people leave during end screen and to then match back on the next game. Haven't seen/noticed that ever in my skill bracket. Also tons of matches where I as a solo player join matches with 4 or more people in fireteams.
Looks like a complaining post to me.
"...focusing on strategies and techniques for Destiny's Crucible." Says it right there in the sub description. Along with rule 2 against pure complaint posts. DTG is the sub you're looking for if you just need to vent (which is fine, just not the purpose of this sub)
I don't know what sbmm are you all talking about, the thing is the same as control: been getting matched with people reaaally outside my skill level. Same as control. I don't remember when was the last time I faced someone you can call bad that wasn't just starting the game, so outlier is working.
You may be playing people better than you because there's only people better than you in the playlist, plain and simple.
My play is excellent in IB. Only once did I see a player go into a rock, Lol
Could be your connection as I don’t normally have problems once on Destiny
Yeah I’ve noticed tons of teleporting and bad connections in IB.
Same. It was unbelievably bad last night. Unloading entire magazines into opponents and suddenly they'd (seemingly) one-shot me, melee hits not registering, health bars jumping up and down, supers straight up disappearing. Frustrating to say the least.
Yep, I've unloaded mags into people and they don't take damage. THEN I've thought on MULTIPLE occasions that I got damage glitched or two-tapped by a 120 or 140, only to check the player's inventory and there's no damage perk (like golden tricorn or something). Don't even get me started one the 30 games I've played without a single multimach drop.
had players teleporting in normal crucible last night
For me the latency-related jank has been worse than usual even by Iron Banner standards (which are historically worse than other modes to begin with). I'm sure it doesn't help that the node is split into two modes (Tribute and Control) currently at a time when they need to be collapsing the population into fewer nodes, and not spreading it out into more. (That said, I'm not finding it literally unplayable, just some slightly more frustrating interactions than usual)
> at a time when they need to be collapsing the population into fewer nodes, and not spreading it out into more. I fully agree, there are so many nodes.
Am I crazy or does latency seem just a bit worse since the 3/5 update? IB is on a plane of its own with strict SBMM, they really need to loosen that.
I honestly don't know the algorithm it uses. But it doesn't feel like standard Control at all. It feels like decently aggressive SBMM in there. Probably not helped by the fact that FTMM sucks and the fact that they've split the playlist into the really stupid Gambit mode that shouldn't have ever come back and Control.
I think the issue is in your 2nd paragraph. The vast majority of casuals in particular are going to be playing the Tribute mode, simply because it's the default one. Half the population legitimately won't even realize that you can select a different mode in the first place. So right away if you're playing the classic control, the population pool you're playing in is probably like 20% of the full population playing Iron Banner... Of that group, it's going to be full of "sweats" because the Tribute mode is something different and we all know how Destiny PVP players react to change that isn't perfect.
Tbf though, I'd much rather get put against people above my skill level and realize I'm dying to being put played, vs being killed by Jim Bob over here because he has a .05 net speed. Never understood people's issue with CBMM. And no, I'm by no means a top tier player trying to kill shitters, I'm somewhere in the middle around a 1.15 KD so there's plenty of people way better than I am that I'd also have to face.
Completely agreed. Although there's definitely a level of bias in my opinion as I am generally one of those top 0.1% players(I'm a 2.55 KD player) where SBMM early on made the game feel largely unplayable, but especially in quickplay modes the focus should just be on getting quality connection games far more then anything else should matter. I also think playing players that are significantly better then you is absolutely the best way to actually improve. I wasn't always a top 0.1% player. When I first started gaming back in the Halo 3 days for example I struggled for almost a year to reach a skill rank of 20, on Call of Duty 4(The first Cod I played) I was thrilled the day my total kills exceeded my total deaths for the first time almost 25,000 kills into the game(I even remember the game it happened on). Even in the beginnings of Destiny 2 and "Trials of the Nine" being that super competitive mode, I played to a \~1.7 KD and only went flawless a couple times. When I returned to Destiny 2 before Beyond Light after a 2.5 year break, I was shit at the game. But playing lots and playing lots of good players is how you learn good habits, good map awareness, movement, heat zones, etc. and that's how you improve.
Yeah I definitely agree playing better players really helps you improve, but only if you really pay attention to what they are doing and not getting upset and calling bullshit the whole time, which I have to say, a lot of the casual or 'I hate crucible' player base does. But yeah I went from never being able to get a single win in trials, to being able to go flawless just about any week I dedicate myself to trying. It's gotten to the point I enjoy trials more than any other crucible playlist.
No doubt. The corny thing is the 3 Game Garys who don't touch PVP act like SBMM implemented is this big comeuppance for any sweat who wants to stomp and it ends up making the experience suck for a lot of ordinary arguably average people when stuff flies off a cliff and games are so inconsistent. I feel like Bungie is so checked out at this point and I don't what they're smoking acting like some of these changes are going to inspire and encourage people on the fence this late to get into pvp and stay there consistently.
What they haven't processed is the core difference from PVE: Someone has to win and someone has to lose.
i never noticed any real difference between sbmm and cbmm in my play sessions. it's just this boogeyman to blame losses on like xim and zen because theres no objective evidence of any of those things. So you cant DISPROVE the other guy was ximming or SBMM beat my dog. also, it's not sbmm, it's part cbmm and sbmm. my guess is it's well tilted towards cbmm. put it this way, i'm on xbox. i've been in lobbies with true vanguard the biggest sbmm hater out there many times. his lobbies are full of mediocre players. what is he even complaining about? no major network issues through ten yrs of playing a lot of crucible either. much bigger issue for me is after the counter in the lower right goes away on MM (IE, it found a match, I guess?), the game often seems to hang up. you will just float in orbit interminably before finally flying in to the match. happens like every 4th or 5th match if i was guessing. It seems to have gotten better recently, it hangs for less time, but still seems to be a thing.
😂 there’s a huge difference between this sbmm and what we normally have. Saying otherwise is just being obtuse.
That or they're not good/bad enough to have the ill effects of SBMM actually effect them.
where is the line for that now? I normally have a rougher experience with SBMM. long queue times, extremely wide skill range that starts barely under me as the baseline and ends with 2.5+ K/D players, all while team balancing ensured a 36% and 40% W/L across the last 2 seasons of IB I played (72 and 61 matches). and im just a ~1.34 K/D player, which isnt all that high to begin with. IB control so far has been fantastic in comparison, so much that I legitimately thought it was the whole "SBMM in name only" outlier protection matchmaking. Queues have been faster than normal, vast majority of games have been close and skill ranges are between ~2K/D players and <0.8K/D, with my last loss even being due to having a new light on his literal second ever match of crucible (poor bastard went 3-18, cant even fault them for it). Hell, there hasnt been any big lag either, only a single instance so far of a slightly delayed kill notification. --- seems like im having an outlier experience though. ill take what I can get while I can. Have had 0 luck getting either new gun to drop, be it post-game or from engrams, lots of snipers and shotguns along with the worthless armor
sure and your proof is? it just seems harder to me. these players arent on my level theyre above it. sbmm would seek to match you with similar players not better ones. i never know when mm goes through a hard spell with this game. i typically blame it on a declining population, and only the sweats being left. the fact is after ten yrs most are pretty good at this game. but the truth is it's always a big ol shrug. over time it typically evens out. recently had some comp matches against .6 k.d bots, i personally dont feel any better about that if not worse. no fun beating up on probably little kids. maybe fun for you, as you are anti-sbmm, not me. but it is good for the k/d i guess. ib seems to have evened out a little. like i said my last two comp matches were just kinda sad though. total walkovers.
My proof is playing the game, if you can’t tell the difference between control and iron banner than idk what to tell you. It seems pretty obvious to everyone else but you.
A complete middle of the road player WOULDN'T feel a difference I suppose. I absolutely feel a difference and my IB win rate these past 2 seasons is HALF or less than my life long win rate. Sbmm would be fun if it wasn't just trash lobby balancing with a 20% chance to win for MY team over and over.
i straight up didn't know control was an option i thought that was regular control-control and didn't click lol i suffered through 20-something tribute matches thinking it was the only option. thank GOD i saw someone ask if they should be farming in tribute or control.
There's probably so many others just like you honestly, lol.
I don't think Bungie made any updates to the IB SBMM like they have been with regular Control. This feels like the first SBMM version they shipped out to us when they first brought it back a while ago.
I'll say, I got a We Ran on one game and it was just hell match after hell match after hell match. Shot registration also feels super off, too
IB has been SBMM for a while now
> Probably not helped by the fact that FTMM sucks This cannot be further highlighted and it's frustrating we never got an intended change that was supposed to take larger considerations of physical makeup of the fireteam, see the "big crucible article" intended for Season of Defiance's mid season patch, this was supposed to be addressed a literal year ago and Bungie said nothing. The worst part is now with that whole "snake draft" and other thing that they recently experimented with, the matchmaking trips over itself and can barf out a 4-5 stack of the most sweaty people , and they'll have 1-2 afk casuals on their team as if that's the big fairness equalizer for the stack's ability, even though nobody on the opposing team is anywhere close in ability to that stack, making it so lopsided off the drop. I am curious how bad the population is hurting at this point, because I feel like I haven't had a normal day of 6s PVP with any semblance of consistency in awhile. I've had way too many things with recent changes of stuff where I go like 3W 7L with the wins peppered between hell nightmares and this is consciously backing out if I just kept on getting the same stacks.
I love that Bungie acknowledged what we all knew: FBMM was strictly overriding SBMM and making for a shit experience for casual players who want to play socially (and driving them out of the playlists), and yet we still get threads like the one today where every comment is shitting on a guy for losing 15 straight while trying to play with his friends. I’m normally pretty on board with the attitudes of this sub, but that one grates me.
The more frustrating aspect is the solution they proposed was actually really sane and it's so weird why they didn't push for it. [Here](https://www.bungie.net/7/en/News/article/lightfall-crucible-update) is the big article for context. I just never understood Bungie's persistence to gut any true casual playlist that isn't bogged down by so much stuff. Even for just a videogame in general especially Bungie having a history of appealing to a more loose aspect, it's weird to see any sort of non-party mode casual playlist absent. I try to not take it to personal but that one twab when they announced certain changes and basically tried to pass off (paraphrasing) "if you want to play with friends and have looser games, go play private matches" just rubbed me such a wrong way as somebody who has a clan of various pvp ability people.
TV posted a video about his 6s experience saying he's convinced the snake draft is simply broken.
Broken how, I couldn't find the vid but yeah something about it seems off.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFnUrPASYbg&pp=ygUMdHJ1ZXZhbmd1YXJk I've noticed lobby balancing being kinda wonky but as he points out here, matches starting unfilled indicates an even bigger matchmaking problem.
I love FTMM. I realize people who dislike it want to stomp, and not only be better but also have an unfair numbers and team communicatioon advantage too. But, just get better? or just buy a barrell and put some fish in it and start shooting them? same effect. why do you have to come in videogames? i fail to see whats fun about that but thats you i guess.
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Your comment wasn't civil and therefore it has been removed.
It is by far the sweatiest playlist for me, but when I look at the players in the matches, the range is super wide (i.e. .6 KD trials players in a lobby with 2.0 KD players). So it feels like super tight SBMM, but the player gap is super side (maybe im just having bad luck with team balance).
"ftmm sucks"=i like to run around in a 6 stack and stomp and now i dont get to, i actually have to play competition. Allow me to cry salty tears for you.
No, I'd like the system to actually work. 2-3 stacks are in the solo queue (keep in mind a decent 3-stack can completely run a lobby) and not attempted to be equalized. 4+ Stack games are still completely miserable to the point where I still just requeue if I see a team size bigger than 3. If I could opt out of being the +1 in a stacked game, and 3 stacks weren't in the same pool as solos, that'd be good design. But at that point, you may as well just have Freelance vs. non-Freelance back to fracture the player pool less. I rarely ever stack, FTMM just doesn't function properly.
I completely agree with this. Last night I queued into an Iron Banner match that put ALL Three double stack teams ( incredibly sweaty trials-like players ) into the opposite side and my team was literally just a handful of new light solo players with armor, builds and skills to prove it. I hung in there to finish the wildly unbalanced match, only to be tea bagged over and over by the sweats who had three times the score we did by the end. How is MM still this ridiculous?
Yeah, and it’s actively discouraging right now. I want to grind for the gl, and I already reset once so I can grind for the new shader (I like to collect free/bright dust shaders
I’ve never been great at pvp, but I’ve always enjoyed it. I can’t play more than a couple matches now without wanting to delete the game. There’s other games, for its near time to let destiny die.
Yes, lag is abysmal. Never seen it this bad.
Needing to go to another playlist to try out your new Iron Banner gun is THE Iron Banner experience.
if you're any decent at the game, you have two options. play solo. you'll have to drop 30-40 raw kills and likely still lose the game play full stack. you'll need everyone in your stack to be on your skill level (2.0kd+). IB is using the old SBMM lobby balancing system so you cant play with friends that are worse than you and you need to hard carry every lobby pretty much.
I'm seeing the same thing. I just hit my 45th reset yesterday and every game had people teleporting, teammates walking into walls for 5 seconds then teleporting, supers that pop twice because of latency. I also generally hate 6s. It's supposed to be casual but it feels like the sweatiest playlist. And it doesn't help that all I get is Disjunction, Fortress, and Vostok. I genuinely have more fun in Trials playing 1 map over and over all weekend.
My friend backed out of the fireteam last night to get easier games. We played by ourselves but in the same Xbox party. Mucho sad
My games have been stomps, mostly towards my team. I dont understand how people keep saying the mode has strict SBMM; there is something fundementally wrong with the matchmaking. Unfortunately posts calling attention to matchmaking are typically frowned upon.
I've said it before, but there's something specific about Iron Banner which gives it awful connections, worse than any other PvP mode. That said, outside of a few teleporting console players, it's been alright so far today.
Same in my experience. Very long waiting times, very strict SBMM, tons of lag and very stingy loot make it basically unplayable.
It's been trash ever since they added sbmm, idk how anyone plays this game outside of trials.
Trials is by far the most casual mode in the game now. Seems a bit ironic.
It's toxic yet chill (unless it's on a shit map)
As a solo? I get new lights on my team and play mega sweats. Trials this season has been rough.
I only play crucible/trials solo. It's a lottery for sure, but it's also the only time I play significantly worse players than myself (with the exception of GG Supremacy, which was a blast). Control and Comp are always a pure meta sweatfest for me, which can be fun sometimes, but Trials feels like a break from that with the amount of lower skilled players jumping in. Matchmaking can crush you for sure though, I went on like a 8 game losing streak in Trials Monday night where every game I had the shittiest team. Is what it is.
If you're good. If you are bad (like me) it's the single most terrifying thing in this game going up against diamond elo players or higher.
Normal 6s is fine since the SBMM is only really to the point where you're not matching gods with new players. Banner doesn't seem to use the normal 6s matchmaking, opting for a much, much stricter SBMM.
We are having very different experiences in 6’s my lobbies are all flawless, adept, ascendant sweat fest. I trying to figure out where are all the regular players.
They all left bro. All my friends stopped playing it. Even the hardcore ones that have been around since D1
Probably wrong about this but I thought they removed sbmm when they replaced it with that fireteam matchmaking or something of a similar name.
It is FBMM and SBMM
It's both! Double the filters!
SBMM really is mostly removed. Don't believe what people here will tell you. The "SBMM" they do have now is essentially just outlier protection. If every player was given a rank from 1 to 50 tomorrow. The SBMM we have in place(At least in quickplay 6v6, Iron Banner might be different tbh) essentially makes sure the 1-5 skilled players and the 46-50 players don't match each other. Otherwise, everyone from 6-50 is fair game.
Not for Iron Banner. The tweaks to SBMM over the past few seasons to land on the current iteration of outlier protection have not been applied to Iron Banner. It's still using the first implementation of Strict SBMM. If there have been any changes, they haven't mentioned it in any TWIDs or patch notes specifying Iron Banner.
Its definitely possible, like I said. I dont think original Iron Banner SBMM was ever quite as strict as what the original quickplay SBMM was, but based on my personal statistical evidence I would say there's a pretty good chance Iron Banner SBMM has not changed. Here's a rundown of the evidence from my experience here using my gameplay data: [https://destinytracker.com/destiny-2/profile/bungie/4611686018430452937/overview?mode=crucible](https://destinytracker.com/destiny-2/profile/bungie/4611686018430452937/overview?mode=crucible) * SBMM was introduced in Season 18, the season before that I personally had a 3.21 KD in Control, and a 3.54 KD in Iron Banner, across 750+ games. * In Season 18(The first with SBMM), my KD dropped to 1.78 in Control, 2.70 in IB, across 250 games(I stopped playing halfway through this season specifically due to frustrations of the ridiculous SBMM in Quickplay and being forced into the meta) * In Season 19 I had a 2.21 KD in Control, and a 2.13 KD in IB across 200 games(Again, stopped playing PVP pretty quickly due to SBMM) * In Season 20, a 1.79 KD in Control, 2.00 KD in IB across 180 games(This was Lightfall launch season, most of my time was PVE/Raiding quite frankly this season). * In Season 21, a 1.82 KD in Control, 1.93 KD in IB across 300 games. * Season 22, a 2.22 KD in Control, 1.83 KD in IB across 420 games. This is where they started to loosen SBMM, and about halfway through last season IIRC is when they started to implement the "Outlier protection" that we have now. * Season 23, a 2.43 KD in Control, 2.22 KD in IB across 570 games. Also worth pointing out that in Supremacy this season(A playlist that is 100% CBMM) I am at a 3.13 KD with 125 games played. As someone who's a top 0.1% player, absolutely without a doubt the SBMM in Control has gotten extremely relaxed over the last 2 seasons, and it really is just outlier protection at this point. And I would say the evidence pretty clearly lies in the fluctuations of my statistics over the last 7 seasons from pre-SBMM to what we have now. The swings in IB are much smaller, which I would say points to the possibility that some form of true SBMM is probably in existence in the mode. Since in theory for top 0.1% players our KD would be higher in IB given its generally a more casual mode that people play then just normal quickplay.
Here's my stats for comparison. It'd take me a long time to copy the data from DTR to here as DTR is a pain to navigate on my phone. https://destinytracker.com/destiny-2/profile/psn/RiderVPG/overview?mode=crucible I'm not that good of a player so feel free to use my stats as an example from someone lower down the skill curve.
Yeah I would say your stats very strongly corelate to my stats as well. Here's a short breakdown of yours: * In Season 17, you were a 1.71 in Control, and a 2.02 in IB across 266 matches. This was the season before SBMM started where it was purely connection based and nothing else. * In Season 18 when SBMM kicked in, you were a 1.29 in Control, a 1.91 in IB across 280 matches. * In Season 21, you were a 1.49 in Control, and a 1.15 in Iron Banner across 140 matches. * Now, in season 23 where SBMM has been relaxed a lot in quickplay especially, you're currently a 1.71 in Control, and a 1.43 in IB across 270 matches. So almost the exact same trends as my stats. Basically between the two of us which combined has thousands of games worth of a sample size... You could reasonably deduce that: * Up to season 17, SBMM did not exist at all in. Season 18 was a very strict SBMM in Control, while very loose or non-existent(I dont think they introduced SBMM in IB until Season 19 honestly IIRC). * Season 19 through Season 21 had basically the same SBMM parameters, slightly looser then Season 18 but still pretty tight matchmaking and it was across both IB and Quickplay. * Season 22 they started to looses the SBMM in Control and IB. And now in Season 23 SBMM is largely non-existent in Quickplay, instead we have the simple outlier protection and that's about it. Iron Banner still suggests some level of SBMM, but again not nearly as strong as we had during the roughest seasons of SBMM from 19-21. And honestly this data really does go hand in hand with what Bungie has told us. The first iteration of SBMM was extremely tight. Since then pretty much every matchmaking update they've made has been designed to loosen those parameters.
Normal 6s is fantastic now, not even trying to be rude when I say it is legitimately a skill issue if you feel like SBMM is a problem in normal control.
Dunno why you’re being downvoted, normal quickplay feels good right now. Iron Banner on the other hand lol…
It's because a lot of people especially on this sub in recent years, don't realize that they aren't actually top tier players in the game, but they all think they are. Those players are the ones who's lobbies are actually tougher in general than they were with SBMM in effect.
Yeh for sure. I see a lot of people on this sub complain about matching flawless titles and ascendant emblems but these days a lot of those players are somewhere between 1.0-1.4KD. they’re just letting themselves get intimidated by nothing really
Definitely not fantastic. My lobbies are all sweaty adepts and ascendant. All holding hands and team shooting. It’s ridiculous.
I guarantee that just isn't true, the statistical evidence on my account alone(And I am a clear top 0.1% player) very clearly shows just how relaxed SBMM is now compared to its launch. But also like I said, sounds like a skill issue if you aren't capable of playing with your team or playing smarter again even slightly better opponents.
You may want to re-read what I said. My lobbies are pretty much all adept and ascendant. Logically Your point is not invalid. It is probably a skill issue in the same way if you didn’t think strict SBMM is fantastic that’s a skill issue as well. Second where did I say “not capable”? You’re making a lot of ignorant assumptions. You said it was fantastic. But most good players don’t like team shooting metas. We also don’t like lobbies filled with nothing but high skill players. Because you have to play to serious and that sucks in quick play.
I read what you said perfectly fine. SBMM is extremely relaxed to the point it barely even exists. I'm a top 0.1% player and none of my lobbies are anywhere close to as sweaty as you think they are and I absolutely don't have to play serious, hell I've spent half my games this season using DIM Random loadouts to because SBMM is so relaxed and games are easier now. "Most good players don't like team shooting" is the ignorant assumption. Really what you should have said was "Most good players don't like facing players who can shoot back" because the reality is any actual good player in the game is utilizing teams and team shot themselves plenty. Like I said, sounds like a skill issue for you.
Wrong….i know what my lobbies are because i check. Sounds to me like I’m just at a higher level than you. Yeah you’re right…people love hand holding metas. Lol…you’re definitely not a top tier player. Stop the cap. 😂
If anything, it sounds to me like you're probably a mid tier player that thinks they're higher in the skill bracket then they actually are... And the lack of SBMM simply means you're matching players that are better than you at a much higher rate than before. https://destinytracker.com/destiny-2/profile/xbl/Tlaloc/overview Yeah, top 0.4% for KD(Even with all the cheaters ahead of me), top 0.2% ELO across all the game modes... Clearly not a top player. Stop clowning yourself.
Congrats you can copy and paste random DT profile. Lol…..the only clown is you for thinking that proves anything.
Lol the amount of copium in this response is great.
Iron Banner is CBMM.
No
Only CBMM mode is Trials. Maybe some random smaller mode but casual, IB and Comp are SBMM and FBMM with an additional filter in comp of computer predetermined rank. (I.E if Bungie thinks you belong in Plat that's what you'll be pushed towards)
Solely Computer predetermined rank based matchmaking hasn’t been a thing for a few seasons now in comp. It’s RBMM with anti-Smurf protections using computer predetermined rank.
All Quickplay modes are CBMM. The weekly 6s and 3s Quickplay mode, Rumble, Crucible Labs and the Trials Challenger pool.
I meant control when I said casual. I don't really play any of the smaller niche modes like scorch lol.
Control and IB are SBMM, but IB is stricter
Hasn’t been for a long time
Noticed it too. That and the lobby balancing feels like it's designed to mercy lol.
IB usually is pretty bad, but for some reason they made the awful choice to yet again split the playlist for an event. I really don’t know why they insist on making the matchmaking worse in the face of a declining PvP population. IB should be connection-based with fireteam based MM and lobby balancing. We have comp, they don’t need to dilute the population with SBMM for 6s anymore.
Its the SBMM. No 6v6 playlist in this game should have SBMM. The game is too prone to latency issues.
I won my first 4 matches and then lost 7 in a row. Had the worst games id had in years…in multiple games. Don’t think im gonna play it very much.
Oh man, I'm getting punished severly for my good bandwith. I don't know whether it's severe packet loss, but on my screen I'm getting one shot from something like an igneous all the time. I also usually get put on the team that doesn't know how to bank crests so within the first couple of minutes the other team will have 20+ and our team will have the 3 or so that only I have banked. I just leave and requeue at that point.
Last night was completely unplayable for me as well. Sbmm + splitting the playlist, it's unbelievably bad
Yeah it’s ridiculous. I’m getting titan meleed from narnia but can’t manage to land one myself.
Network is awful but so is matchmaking. Played 9 games yesterday and lost the first 8, despite being top kills/score or atleast second for every single one. We were getting smashed too, it was clear from the start of the games that the teams were horribly balanced unless I absolutely popped off. Then the game took pity on me and gave me a stacked team on the 9th. I barely had to do anything and the win just felt cheap.
lobby balancing doesn’t exist when my team is 0.1 and enemy team is all flawless titles
They've got sbmm going with low population, makes for really fun matches.
SBMM for who? My matches are so lopsided there is no way it's matching like skill.
It’s because the pop is so low, being split between waaaaay too many playlists, and fbmm . It’s trying to find people of even skill but ends up just being really jank with a coating of extreme latency on top.
Thought I was crazy. Multiple people teleporting, just dying after I had already killed someone or them just not taking any damage while running towards me. I kept constantly checking my internet to see if it was me but I was good. I feel better knowing it’s not just me experiencing these types of matches.
I can barely finish a game I've played about 10 today and finished maybe 3 of them. I just gave up. Bee, baboon, weasel ect... im ethernet connected no wifi no router ect... it's definitely on bungies side. They don't do maintenance and the whole thing falls apart.
Yes it’s been horrible
Connections are horrendous. Feels like the matchmaking algorithm is a bit different than standard Control. Is FTMM on in this mode? The amount of 4+ stacks I ran into as a solo yesterday was annoying. All they do is 3,2,1 you as soon as you come around the corner.
I haven't played today yet but i played prolly 3 hours of it yesterday and was fine, I did have 1-3 people overall who had bad lag and would die like 5 seconds later but otherwise it wasn't bad. That was on pc with 1 gig ethernet for reference. The sbmm is annoying tho, even tho it was the most enjoyable games of the night, I played 4 games in a row with the exact same people, a stacked clan vs a stacked clan + me. Side note, switch the game type off tribute, that mode is just painful.
Yo I thought it’s just me! Nearly every game there’ll be at least 1 or 2 players teleporting, or maybe I’m the one who’s lagging… I dunno! I’d just be walking on my merry way and then boom I’m dead and the player who killed me is outlined and wtf he’s inside a wall??
Haven't had much latency issues but both modes have been sweaty as fuck lol.
I had one lobby where someone was inside the walls shooting players. I got a couple hit markers randomly shooting at the wall. Also, everyone wasn't playing, they were standing around emoting. So strange. It was fun to drop a hvy crown splitter on three of em in a well. Weird lobbies this week, don't think I'm gonna play it.
IB uses stricter than normal SBMM to cater to the casuals who dip in for PvE as to keep people in their skill band separated from the more dedicated PvPers. But this isn’t anything new, and gets worse as population dips. I’m not even super cracked (1.7/1.3) yet most of my IB games are outright unplayable. It’s really a bad look for Bungie and PvP in general.
I had multiple people teleporting and had a couple times where I'd as soon as I saw someone as if they'd been firing on me the whole time
Between the connections and how the meta is playing, its definitely playing poorly rn imo.
It feels super laggy, but almost likes the game is dropping frames now. Anyone else getting that? I was seeing it a bit on Cauldron in trials 2 weeks ago, but now its basically every IB game.
Yeah, it's been horid. Not great matchmaking Bad connections Toxicity everywhere Teams of 6 solo q vs. teams of multiple 2 and 3 stacks Half of the team not knowing you have to dunk for points because bungie doesn't explain the game mode AND ABYSMAL DROP RATES FOR THE WEAPONS, THE ONLY REASON IM PLAYING I've reset rank w/ Shax twice since it came out and still haven't gotten a single drop of either of the new weapons. I'm also getting really tired of the teamshot meta. It's not fun on either end. I want duels, not firing lines.
really bad connections last night i stopped playing because of teleporting. started playing today and out of 3 matches, 2 of them was very laggy. not a very good start so far tbh lol
Literally every game is a stomp. It's impossible to enjoy for me so I've completely quit caring about winning or performance in this game. Only played to get tusk and will only play to stockpile engrams for next IB. Not to mention the lag as of late. It's just an awful experience.
After playing a game and a half of the bullshit engram collecting mode, I’m sticking with good ol’ Control. Seems to be night and day for me. Still haven’t gotten Multimach of Tusk to drop
Oh man, I thought I was crazy for being over 30 resets this season. I played maybe 20 matches last night (DTR not working right now) and only quit maybe 2 over lag issues. That's pretty much the same as regular Control for me. As usual, guns that "kill in 4 shots" take 8 a lot of the time, but I'm so used to that at this point the lag has to be even worse for me to quit (since... maybe I missed a few of those 8 shots and it wasn't lag). Once I dump a whole SMG into someone who doesn't have an overshield at close range and they live or who is teleport lagging then I'm out. I only had a couple of matches that were that bad. USA West coast prime time. Oh and yeah, I match the same people plenty but that's no different than in non-IB Control. Also more and more clans from around the world, so the game seems to be really struggling to fill matches.
Unless something has changed, IB and QP Control no longer use loose SBMM. They are using that new outlier protection scheme outlined in the 02/22 TWID under the heading of **Already Live**. I know game text says other-wise, but you know Bungie /grin https://www.bungie.net/7/en/News/article/this-week-in-destiny-02-22-24 **Replaced the loose skill-based matchmaking in Iron Banner and Control with the new outlier protection matchmaking system.**
The only outlier it must protect against is my team winning
People are saying they think B is lying. Funny too, today B announced measures to ban people for manipulating SBMM which…that TWID basically says doesn’t exist. so… I’m not sure they are telling the truth either.
Loading matches last night was a bit slow. But I think on a whole different level, Tribute kind of sucks. I’m just not enjoying it. Supremacy with an extra step. I swapped back to Iron Banner Control.
I've had the same issue with teleporting. Splitting the lobbies across two different game modes is hurting an already low population. I see fewer teleporting and connection issues when I play tribute as compared to control. I think a lot of people don't realize that you can change the game mode so with tribute being the default the populations in that mode are higher. It sucks because you are either stuck with an okay connection in tribute which is a terrible game mode or a terrible connection in control.
6v6 is generally just dogshit, thankfully I already have my BotF and Occluded God rolls (which are useless now, thanks bungie) so I don't have to play this garbage gamemode.
I've been feeling it too, partly due to connection but mostly SBMM, i know it's the most popular complaint but it really does get annoying to be unable to casually play pvp. I'm not even crazy at the game, 1.6 and adept which I feel isn't high enough in the bracket to be getting the esports olympics ass lobbies I'm always put in. I love pvp but I feel like I'm being punished for trying to be good at it. I can't play with any friends because they just don't have fun getting stomped, and playing alone usually feels shitty too because I need to go trials levels of concentration and sweat to compete in my matches. Genuinely its been feeling like trials is less sweaty than IB or comp lately.
It's SBMM, magnified by one of the best metas for teamshotting that's ever existed and a stacks-against-solos matchmaking process. *Of course* it feels like trash. And it's entirely intended by the "Crucible Strike Team."
Its teleport central, fuckin unplayable
I've only had one game yesterday that was weird and jumpy, that's pretty much all I've done this week so. 1 game out of 20 or something.
ive had this experience if i choose control variant. The tribute variant has been mostly ok.
I’m having a lot of bullets not register and a delay between getting a shotty kill and the enemy dying. Sometimes I shoot my second shot thinking the first one missed just to watch them die a millisecond before the second round goes off
Getting frame drops every game from 120 down to 70.
Played 4 matches today. Three mercies against me and one against the enemy with only summoners beaming and really bad connections. Decided that's enough for the week
The IB Control playlist was basically unplayable. I found IB Tribute had better games. My guess would be that it’s either because there’s more people playing it, since it’s the default, or that, since it’s new, SBMM hasn’t had time to get as spread yet - or both. Of course, then you have to play Tribute. I really hated it at first, but now I’m so-so on it.
All my matches are a stomp one way or another. In my opinion the matchmaking is bad any time they split the pool between modes within IB, now that there are like 8 diff crucible modes then modes within modes. The game does not have the player population to support this imo
yeah i’ve been experiencing bad latency and damage glitches. like i’ll peak someone and they shoot me and then i hide and suddenly i’m sitting at 5 hp from full.
I noticed this too last night. I'm very new to pvp (in Destiny 2 at least) and the first couple games went good. I stopped for 20 or so minutes and went back in and it seemed no matter what I did, I couldn't stay alive for more then 15 seconds. I had multiple people I landed half a magazine or better into their heads and their shield wouldn't even break. Or at best I'd break their shield but die from 1 hit melee in return. I noticed too, that even my weapons didn't feel crisp while using them, if that makes sense.
That’s Destiny PVP. Every single day
Good to know. So if I get some good matches in.. Stay in playing until it starts going to hell quick, then stop for the day or try back later. Lol
Nothing like that so far , on pc. . usuall i rage at such stuff but nope.
Must endure...for Strand GL!
Well the run of quality matches was nice while it lasted. Aimbots are out today, reported several. Buzz kill MFers. And to think....you pay to get subjected to this sh*t. Kinda like college.
It hasn’t been THAT bad for me on console, but I played some games with my pc friend and immediately faced teleporting players with timelost internet connections. I couldn’t kill them and they’d one shot me or damage glitch me and it’s annoying because it isn’t hacking so I’m not sure what I can even do besides ask my buddy to take us out of the match, which is unfair to our teammates I’ve played at least 30-40 games, not one tusk of the boar
Worst connections I’ve ever had in my entire life trying to play this game. I don’t even know why I kept trying to play. It was taking what felt like close to a second for any of my shots to register. And it was consistently bad, all night. I would get a 3 tap with igneous run away and reload before the kill would actually register. If I didn’t literally run away I’d just drop dead from the guy I 3 tapped that wasn’t even looking at me. I’m gotten use do dealing with rough connections with skill based, but yesterday was on a completely different level of fuckery.
Yea it lags more than qp. I'd guess iron banner has the same sbmm as before.
This is the worst IB in literally years IMO. For all the reasons OP mentioned.
I rarely get kicked, like hardly ever. But since Tuesday playing only IB I’ve been kicked to orbit and out of destiny to Xbox screen 6 times.
Yeah had the same problem last night. Every game of Tribute has teammates standing around waiting for crests to drop only to all funnel into the same lane and die to a cloud strike. Control is no better, just a mix of bad lobby balancing and teammates playing clash without playing obj.
I know that 99% of the time when server issues provide a negative experience there are console players in my lobby. I can not think of a single reason why consoles can opt out of cross play but pc can’t. Please ffs just give me the same options as consoles.
A few games yesterday. But not too much. Could it be your location? I played like a dozen or more games and only experienced this stuff a couple times and neither was enough to ruin the match for me
Played 18 matches yesterday evening/night between 6:30 PM EST to 11:00 EST (roughly) and I think in two of the matches there were two people ttl (1 per match) that had some pretty awful connections. Like moving like a Taken Captain and then snapping back into place. Other then that, it was okay. ______ Balance wise, the matches feel okay? There's been maybe 3-4 matches where I felt like my teammates were oblivious to the idea of holding at least one zone... but I figured I'd chalk that up to PvE players who maybe don't regularly play PvP not fully comprehending what they're supposed to do and we've i've had 2 mercies in my favor and 2 mercies not in my favor.
Had the same experience yesterday, the lobbys were laggy asf, everyone teleporting, today it was normal in terms of connection, but the skill base matchmaking is definitely there, the game are super sweaty
I was seeing way too many shotgun / melee seem like they did zero damage. Lots of starting matches with lopsided teams like 5v6 etc. One time I started a match with 2v6. It takes forever to fill in (if it even does) so yeah... I left that one.
I lost to a team with mostly sub 1 k/ds because they had one dude with a 9.8 or some wild shit. I was also the only person on my team with a k/d above 1 (1.5) and there was one person who had a 0.08??? I think the 9.8 guy was lagging or hacking though so maybe it was just the regular bullshit
I don’t know why, but I just had four straight games where the opposing team was made up of duos or trios matched and I had five solos. I know mathematically the odds are there, but still, seems to be rewarding team up play (which also led to a lot of deathballing) as opposed to solo play. My advice? Find the best person in your team and follow them around the map.
My first 10 matches in IB on day 1 were all in progress mercy losses. Have not left a single match in IB and yet continue to get put on teams where someone is leaving or the team is getting absolutely demolished. For reference this season I am a 1.7 KD newish to crucible. Its truly mindblowing how bad this shit is.
That's how IB always is
When they first introduced SBMM it was definitely this bad in IB. Feels like it got better for a season or two though and now we're back to this. Possible I'm just forgetting how awful it was after 9 weeks of trials though.
it's not unplayable but feels a bit worst then normal control, I think yesterday I didn't win a single game yet I was fragging out majority of games
It's unplayable for me because my team is always full of potatoes and the other team seems to be pro gamers.
On PlayStation it’s been okay, crappy but playable. Played with my friend on PC and it was the worst thing ever lol
My experience has been good. All matches as 6v6, have not seen a single airmbot - yet. No glitching except for blink users. Last week in 6s though.....some of the strangest lobbies I've ever had to start matches. 2v6. I'm in the 2. Literally, the pre-match spawn screen has me & one other player standing there lol. 4v4. Randoms v. 4 stack. I'm with the randoms. 6v5. I'm with 5 randoms v 6 stack. 4v5 or 6. All randoms. Sometimes I'm in the 4, sometimes the 6. Sometimes help arrives late, sometimes not. Bungie's MM TWID, which read like the tax code, said randoms v stacks was around a .05% chance occurrence. Yeah. Not. Sometimes the 4 or 5 v 6 can make for an interesting challenge, I'm not completely opposed....as long as it's all randoms. In those matches when you're a late spawn....some are predetermined slaughters, but others are a blast rallying from behind for a win or tight finish. But IB has been good in my neck of the woods.
I bet IronBanner is using the matchmaking parameters of 2 month ago, when it was last up. We had some significant changes in the matchmaking since then and somebody probably forgot to update the config file. I personally have seen people leave during end screen and to then match back on the next game. Haven't seen/noticed that ever in my skill bracket. Also tons of matches where I as a solo player join matches with 4 or more people in fireteams.
Haven’t noticed anything. Been running smooth as silk for me.
Looks like a complaining post to me. "...focusing on strategies and techniques for Destiny's Crucible." Says it right there in the sub description. Along with rule 2 against pure complaint posts. DTG is the sub you're looking for if you just need to vent (which is fine, just not the purpose of this sub)
downvote cause saying the truth, this sub is magnificent
I don't know what sbmm are you all talking about, the thing is the same as control: been getting matched with people reaaally outside my skill level. Same as control. I don't remember when was the last time I faced someone you can call bad that wasn't just starting the game, so outlier is working. You may be playing people better than you because there's only people better than you in the playlist, plain and simple.
My play is excellent in IB. Only once did I see a player go into a rock, Lol Could be your connection as I don’t normally have problems once on Destiny