If Martian Manhunter knew Batman was coming for him, he'd be almost impossible to stop. Telepathy, invisibility, and shape-shifting would help MM hide and strike back whenever he wanted.
MM would be a serious threat.
One of my favorite New 52 moments was [MM soloing the Justice League](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fd32v0atf31x71.jpg).
One of the first DC stories I read had a villain impersonating Martian Manhunter but still had the weakness to fire when J’onn had at the time gotten over it.
Batman’s plan to find out if MM was real was to break in to his secret lair and torch him with a flamethrower.
All it really did was piss J’onn off.
There was a 90’s JLA story (JLA 84-89) where he beat his aversion to fire, went crazy, turned into an alternate identity called Fernus, and WRECKED the Justice League.
WW might be the most complicated because she is as powerful as Superman but has no kryptonite like weakness. The way Batman deals with her in endgame is very dependent on something existing rather than him doing something specific.
Wonder Woman has thousands of years of experience, combat training, strategy, etc. has routinely bested her Amazon colleagues, all top-tier warriors.
She's got a lot of Superman's powers, plus, magical weapons that could work on Superman.
She'd be an absolute nightmare to deal with if she broke bad.
It would probably take a team of DC heavy hitters to take her down.
She is also not above using lethal force if required and when she has fought Superman, she comes out on top often enough to be a risk. Batman is determined and relentless, so I could see her taking the pragmatic option.
Canon is, as always, all over the place, but broadly speaking she's not quite as strong as a Kryptonian, but still leagues stronger and tougher than Batman, plus she's got weapons designed for warfare between gods and knows how to use them.
I think her main weakness in the modern era is bullets.
If she wanted Batman dead, Batman would likely have to call on assistance of someone like Shazam who can go toe-to-toe with her and is magically aligned.
Alternatively, one of Wonder Woman's main flaws seems genuinely to be her memory. She can be tricked. She's not a detail-oriented person. Send her off on some wild goose chase that is technically achievable (so passes the Lasso of Truth test) as soon as things seem awry.
Which means Batman's contingency of trapping her in a battle simulation might actually be the best bet.
She'll be too caught up in noble battle to realize it isn't real and wear herself out over time giving a team of heavies an opportunity to take her out.
Martian Manhunter. Dude almost took out the entire Justice League when he went rogue as Fernus and Batman's entire plan was just >!to go get Plastic Man.!<
Resurrection Man is the toughest and easiest at the same time.
Every time he dies, he gers a new random power. So you either have to constantly keep killing him like Savage did, or keep him frozen forever.
Both are ethically ambiguous at best.
Proballt won't work. Resurrection man has come back from disintegration and cremation.
He was atomized by a nuclear bomb and came back as a living shadow.
He lives all the way to the 853rd century.
So you have an immortal being whose powers change everytime he dies.
You could freeze him, but for how long before it's cruel punishment?
Maybe pull off a World War Hulk and send him off to a distant planet, but there is no guarantee that he won't come back.
How about magical mind wipe like in Identity Crisis? Make him forget who is, convince him he's mortal and powerless, and fix whatever mentally caused him to go evil? A combination of telepathy and incantation?
At least kicks the can down the road till he dies again.
But a powerful enough telepath could theoretically put mental blocks against him doing so. Make him permanently forget. Wipe that part out of his mind completely.
Doesn’t really matter, he’s better off not knowing anyway, especially after his new 52 origin
He’d figure out he had powers eventually regardless. Dude is prone to dying.
Probably the best contingency one could make for him is induced anterograde amnesia (can’t form new memories) through magic or telepath and imprisonment (though not necessarily a prison). Keep him in an automated loop and make him live the same day over and over.
Any hero/villain who could simply *outlive* Batman.
Or anyone who can act as a literal force of nature. I'm not talking about in the sense of how the upper echelon flying brick characters can toss a skyscraper and cause mass casualties. But rather in the sense of how some characters can do such a colossal amount of damage that there would be literally no time to mount a defense before millions are already in danger or dead, etc.
For example, if Etrigan was ever in a bad enough mood, or he just thought it'd be funny and Jason couldn't stop him, the world could get turned upside down, etc.
power scaling is soo hard. I think the only character that a contingency plan would be impossible to plan for would be the flash. i know many comics like to forget how powerful he is, but no character could beat Wally West at full power!!
The ability to navigate spacetime made him super broken.
He really could not be believably defeated in most cases.
He literally breaks time and space. How to you solve for that?
I'd say the Flash. I'm sure it's stated a lot but his speed is the most broken thing. The guy thinks and moves faster than any of the Justice League members can comprehend. Luckily for Batman, The Flash's speed is only as strong as the writers need it to be.
Originally, no, but that was later revealed to be he generally chooses not to.
So yeah, he could technically transmute Superman into another type of matter.
That's assuming Superman doesn't punch him into red mist before he can.
I agree with u/BevansDesign about Martian Manhunter - I think he's consistently the most powerful and underplayed baddie in the cosmos.
I think Metamorpho is a close second just because his powers are way up there. Firestorm would be there too *if only he were a bit more serious and competent.*
But we need to be real that most magical heroes would be a big surprise. Zatanna he could figure out a plan, don't let her speak. Constantine? Get him away from his gadgets and trench coat. While they could beat him, he would have a few tricks and could believably take them on in a comic. Dr. Fate though? He can't remove that helmet and he can't keep up with those powers. His only hope would be to reason with Nabu and *maybe he could do that*, but it would be a very different contest.
Magic isn't just Superman's weakness. It defies order, logic, and rules in many ways. It's something he'd have a really hard time beating.
Zatanna can do anything. She has been able to use magic with her mouth covered so Batman just has to hope and pray his friend doesn’t actually want to hurt him.
Actually, this is true for most of the heroes going rogue. Batman is but a man and his plans rely heavily on the other characters acting stupider than usual or holding back. The Krytonians have shown that while kryptonite makes them weaker they are still a threat. If they weren’t Metalo would be kicking Superman’s arse every day of the week.
Zatanna would indeed be a scary rogue.
Constantine once admitted she's the most powerful magic wielder. The only reason he seems more powerful is that she has scruples and he doesn't. She has rules and lines she won't cross. She's holding back.
In other words, a rogue Zatanna means the kid gloves come off, she won't hold back, and her true power would be revealed.
Scary thought.
I could be wrong and not as well read on Constantine, but I thought he wasn't *that* amazing of a magic wielder. I thought his thing was that he bluffs with impossible conviction, and is willing to do underhanded shit to win. So if we talk pure spellcasting ability he's not that remarkable, but when he says he's made a deal with a demon to damn every soul in a mile radius in return for him to be able to send one person to hell on a one way ride, you really don't want to fuck around and see if he's bluffing.
Pretty, much, which is why he appears to be the most powerful magic wielder. He'll lie, cheat, steal, con, deceive, fuck over, and generally do whatever necessary to ensure victory. He absolutely does know his shit, though.
Liken it to a champion poker player who happens to also be a master bluff, a master read, and a master cheat.
Zatanna is legit powerful but is essentially doing magic with one hand tied behind her back and there are lines she won't cross. She's very aware of the corrupting nature of magic and wants to remain pure.
Zatanna is playing the same game at the same table, but without the bluffs, the reads, or the cheating. If she wins, it's because she's that much better.
Weird thing about that…DC did it first. Or more accurately, Grant Morrison did in the JLA story Rock of Ages where The Atom did something very similar but far less disgusting but far for HOLY SHIT to Darkseid.
So the idea has existed for a while but it took the MCU to make it into an ass joke.
To be fair, the idea of a shrinking hero riding on an arrow is [a Marvel original](https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Avengers_Vol_1_223) and predates Rock of Ages by a long shot. I wouldn't be surprised if Morrison payed hommage to it.
I wasn’t referring to that, I was referring to what the Atom did inside of Darkseid’s body, which is what I thought the whole Ant-Man thing was always about, both the entry in and..exit? I guess? The exit out of Thanos in the joke.
Morrison did it before the joke, and in a more serious and jaw dropping way. I wasn’t even thinking of the propulsion method.
> if Morrison *paid* hommage to
FTFY.
Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in:
* Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.*
* *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.*
Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment.
*Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
Nightwing. Not only was Dick trained by Batman, so he would know how Bats thinks and fights, but Bats would have the biggest weak spot for his adopted son and would not give his all.
He seems to have a hard time fighting Damian because he's strongly against hitting his own son. Then again writers love to make Damian fail so he's rarely the threat he should be.
I don’t know if it’s a thing at DC Comics, I only read 3 titles there, but I don’t give damn hope rich that hero who has no powers and isn’t really a hero at all is, but somebody who could alter reality would be so hard for this entitled, angry, paranoid guy to do much to resist. BONUS: Knightfall Trilogy Movies would be bad as hell, every page had my happy to see this great ending.
I don’t know if it’s a thing at DC Comics, I only read 3 titles there, but I don’t give damn hope rich that hero who has no powers and isn’t really a hero at all is, but somebody who could alter reality would be so hard for this entitled, angry, paranoid guy to do much to resist. BONUS: Knightfall Trilogy Movies would be bad as hell, every page had my happy to see this great ending.
If Martian Manhunter knew Batman was coming for him, he'd be almost impossible to stop. Telepathy, invisibility, and shape-shifting would help MM hide and strike back whenever he wanted.
MM would be a serious threat. One of my favorite New 52 moments was [MM soloing the Justice League](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fd32v0atf31x71.jpg).
One of the first DC stories I read had a villain impersonating Martian Manhunter but still had the weakness to fire when J’onn had at the time gotten over it. Batman’s plan to find out if MM was real was to break in to his secret lair and torch him with a flamethrower. All it really did was piss J’onn off.
I feel like that would annoy most people
There was a 90’s JLA story (JLA 84-89) where he beat his aversion to fire, went crazy, turned into an alternate identity called Fernus, and WRECKED the Justice League.
And MM was shown to have soloed the Justice League in the New 52 era in a flashback. A lot of people don't realize how ridiculously powerful MM is.
In that run Superman said MM was the only creature in the universe he was afraid of, which seemed crazy when Darkseid is.
> Darkseid is
WW might be the most complicated because she is as powerful as Superman but has no kryptonite like weakness. The way Batman deals with her in endgame is very dependent on something existing rather than him doing something specific.
Wonder Woman has thousands of years of experience, combat training, strategy, etc. has routinely bested her Amazon colleagues, all top-tier warriors. She's got a lot of Superman's powers, plus, magical weapons that could work on Superman. She'd be an absolute nightmare to deal with if she broke bad. It would probably take a team of DC heavy hitters to take her down.
She also has some resistance to magic too doesn't she? Would make a absolute nightmare to fight if you went in without a plan and even then good luck.
Exactly right, which means even recruiting other magic users may be ineffective.
She is also not above using lethal force if required and when she has fought Superman, she comes out on top often enough to be a risk. Batman is determined and relentless, so I could see her taking the pragmatic option. Canon is, as always, all over the place, but broadly speaking she's not quite as strong as a Kryptonian, but still leagues stronger and tougher than Batman, plus she's got weapons designed for warfare between gods and knows how to use them. I think her main weakness in the modern era is bullets. If she wanted Batman dead, Batman would likely have to call on assistance of someone like Shazam who can go toe-to-toe with her and is magically aligned. Alternatively, one of Wonder Woman's main flaws seems genuinely to be her memory. She can be tricked. She's not a detail-oriented person. Send her off on some wild goose chase that is technically achievable (so passes the Lasso of Truth test) as soon as things seem awry.
Which means Batman's contingency of trapping her in a battle simulation might actually be the best bet. She'll be too caught up in noble battle to realize it isn't real and wear herself out over time giving a team of heavies an opportunity to take her out.
Martian Manhunter. Dude almost took out the entire Justice League when he went rogue as Fernus and Batman's entire plan was just >!to go get Plastic Man.!<
[Plus this glorious 2-page spread.](https://www.reddit.com/media?url=https%3A%2F%2Fi.redd.it%2Fd32v0atf31x71.jpg)
Resurrection Man is the toughest and easiest at the same time. Every time he dies, he gers a new random power. So you either have to constantly keep killing him like Savage did, or keep him frozen forever. Both are ethically ambiguous at best.
Throw him into the sun?
Proballt won't work. Resurrection man has come back from disintegration and cremation. He was atomized by a nuclear bomb and came back as a living shadow.
Bro is relentless
He lives all the way to the 853rd century. So you have an immortal being whose powers change everytime he dies. You could freeze him, but for how long before it's cruel punishment? Maybe pull off a World War Hulk and send him off to a distant planet, but there is no guarantee that he won't come back.
How about magical mind wipe like in Identity Crisis? Make him forget who is, convince him he's mortal and powerless, and fix whatever mentally caused him to go evil? A combination of telepathy and incantation? At least kicks the can down the road till he dies again.
Thats actually feasible. Just constant mental wipes and pray he doesn't get in an accident.
Or mind wipe and imprisonment? Reduces his chances of randomly dying.
Pointless He literally starts both of his series with no memory, doesn’t stop him from figuring it out both times
But a powerful enough telepath could theoretically put mental blocks against him doing so. Make him permanently forget. Wipe that part out of his mind completely.
Doesn’t really matter, he’s better off not knowing anyway, especially after his new 52 origin He’d figure out he had powers eventually regardless. Dude is prone to dying.
> Dude is prone to dying Aren't we all
Probably the best contingency one could make for him is induced anterograde amnesia (can’t form new memories) through magic or telepath and imprisonment (though not necessarily a prison). Keep him in an automated loop and make him live the same day over and over.
Spectre.
IIRC the Spear of Destiny is supposed to be the countermeasure the US government had for Spectre.
Yup. We'd be pretty well fucked. Didn't Spectre once solo Darkseid?
Plastic Man
Definitely a difficult threat to deal with. Best bet is to to freeze him and launch him into space and hope he doesn't thaw and find his way back.
Any hero/villain who could simply *outlive* Batman. Or anyone who can act as a literal force of nature. I'm not talking about in the sense of how the upper echelon flying brick characters can toss a skyscraper and cause mass casualties. But rather in the sense of how some characters can do such a colossal amount of damage that there would be literally no time to mount a defense before millions are already in danger or dead, etc. For example, if Etrigan was ever in a bad enough mood, or he just thought it'd be funny and Jason couldn't stop him, the world could get turned upside down, etc.
You just made me realize an evil Raven could release Trigon and all of hell on earth.
power scaling is soo hard. I think the only character that a contingency plan would be impossible to plan for would be the flash. i know many comics like to forget how powerful he is, but no character could beat Wally West at full power!!
The ability to navigate spacetime made him super broken. He really could not be believably defeated in most cases. He literally breaks time and space. How to you solve for that?
I'd say the Flash. I'm sure it's stated a lot but his speed is the most broken thing. The guy thinks and moves faster than any of the Justice League members can comprehend. Luckily for Batman, The Flash's speed is only as strong as the writers need it to be.
There is absolutely no scenario where he can take down Diana
I mean he basically stated it was Plastic Man Theoretically though, Martian Manhunter or Firestorm
I believe Firestorm can even transmute matter into kryptonite, so he can take out Kryptonians.
can he transmute living things? he can just turn Superman into cotton candy or something, right?
Originally, no, but that was later revealed to be he generally chooses not to. So yeah, he could technically transmute Superman into another type of matter. That's assuming Superman doesn't punch him into red mist before he can.
I agree with u/BevansDesign about Martian Manhunter - I think he's consistently the most powerful and underplayed baddie in the cosmos. I think Metamorpho is a close second just because his powers are way up there. Firestorm would be there too *if only he were a bit more serious and competent.* But we need to be real that most magical heroes would be a big surprise. Zatanna he could figure out a plan, don't let her speak. Constantine? Get him away from his gadgets and trench coat. While they could beat him, he would have a few tricks and could believably take them on in a comic. Dr. Fate though? He can't remove that helmet and he can't keep up with those powers. His only hope would be to reason with Nabu and *maybe he could do that*, but it would be a very different contest. Magic isn't just Superman's weakness. It defies order, logic, and rules in many ways. It's something he'd have a really hard time beating.
Zatanna can do anything. She has been able to use magic with her mouth covered so Batman just has to hope and pray his friend doesn’t actually want to hurt him. Actually, this is true for most of the heroes going rogue. Batman is but a man and his plans rely heavily on the other characters acting stupider than usual or holding back. The Krytonians have shown that while kryptonite makes them weaker they are still a threat. If they weren’t Metalo would be kicking Superman’s arse every day of the week.
Zatanna would indeed be a scary rogue. Constantine once admitted she's the most powerful magic wielder. The only reason he seems more powerful is that she has scruples and he doesn't. She has rules and lines she won't cross. She's holding back. In other words, a rogue Zatanna means the kid gloves come off, she won't hold back, and her true power would be revealed. Scary thought.
I could be wrong and not as well read on Constantine, but I thought he wasn't *that* amazing of a magic wielder. I thought his thing was that he bluffs with impossible conviction, and is willing to do underhanded shit to win. So if we talk pure spellcasting ability he's not that remarkable, but when he says he's made a deal with a demon to damn every soul in a mile radius in return for him to be able to send one person to hell on a one way ride, you really don't want to fuck around and see if he's bluffing.
Pretty, much, which is why he appears to be the most powerful magic wielder. He'll lie, cheat, steal, con, deceive, fuck over, and generally do whatever necessary to ensure victory. He absolutely does know his shit, though. Liken it to a champion poker player who happens to also be a master bluff, a master read, and a master cheat. Zatanna is legit powerful but is essentially doing magic with one hand tied behind her back and there are lines she won't cross. She's very aware of the corrupting nature of magic and wants to remain pure. Zatanna is playing the same game at the same table, but without the bluffs, the reads, or the cheating. If she wins, it's because she's that much better.
The way I think of it is that Constantine is the master of every hack and exploit in magic. But that's not power, while it can be effectiveness.
I like that analogy. It's like Zatanna is a computer programming genius and Constantine is an elite hacker.
Or I guess someone like the Endless
The Atom
Different brand, but flashbacks of when everyone was memeing that one Thanos solution involving Ant-Man...
Weird thing about that…DC did it first. Or more accurately, Grant Morrison did in the JLA story Rock of Ages where The Atom did something very similar but far less disgusting but far for HOLY SHIT to Darkseid. So the idea has existed for a while but it took the MCU to make it into an ass joke.
To be fair, the idea of a shrinking hero riding on an arrow is [a Marvel original](https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Avengers_Vol_1_223) and predates Rock of Ages by a long shot. I wouldn't be surprised if Morrison payed hommage to it.
I wasn’t referring to that, I was referring to what the Atom did inside of Darkseid’s body, which is what I thought the whole Ant-Man thing was always about, both the entry in and..exit? I guess? The exit out of Thanos in the joke. Morrison did it before the joke, and in a more serious and jaw dropping way. I wasn’t even thinking of the propulsion method.
Respect the trick arrow!
Always
> if Morrison *paid* hommage to FTFY. Although *payed* exists (the reason why autocorrection didn't help you), it is only correct in: * Nautical context, when it means to paint a surface, or to cover with something like tar or resin in order to make it waterproof or corrosion-resistant. *The deck is yet to be payed.* * *Payed out* when letting strings, cables or ropes out, by slacking them. *The rope is payed out! You can pull now.* Unfortunately, I was unable to find nautical or rope-related words in your comment. *Beep, boop, I'm a bot*
> MCU to make it into an ass joke That's so MCU.
Nightwing. Not only was Dick trained by Batman, so he would know how Bats thinks and fights, but Bats would have the biggest weak spot for his adopted son and would not give his all.
He seems to have a hard time fighting Damian because he's strongly against hitting his own son. Then again writers love to make Damian fail so he's rarely the threat he should be.
The true answer is green arrow as batman always underestimates ollie
Midnighter
The real answer is most characters if they didn't live in a universe which had to maintain it's consistency for a monthly publishing series.
Kite Man pumping his fist right now
I don’t know if it’s a thing at DC Comics, I only read 3 titles there, but I don’t give damn hope rich that hero who has no powers and isn’t really a hero at all is, but somebody who could alter reality would be so hard for this entitled, angry, paranoid guy to do much to resist. BONUS: Knightfall Trilogy Movies would be bad as hell, every page had my happy to see this great ending.
I don’t know if it’s a thing at DC Comics, I only read 3 titles there, but I don’t give damn hope rich that hero who has no powers and isn’t really a hero at all is, but somebody who could alter reality would be so hard for this entitled, angry, paranoid guy to do much to resist. BONUS: Knightfall Trilogy Movies would be bad as hell, every page had my happy to see this great ending.
Omni-man. Beings have been scouring the universe for longer than Earth has been a planet, and still haven’t found a way to defeat just one Viltrumite.
What’s your favorite omniman comic from DC?