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Hey that's fun, I have a list of 10 people too, showing the bible disproves the bible:
1. Methuselah – 969 years old (Genesis 5:21 – 27)
2. Jared – 962 years old (Genesis 5:18 – 21)
3. Noah – 950 years old (Multiple references throughout Genesis)
4. Adam – 930 years old (Genesis 1; Genesis 2:4 – 3:24; Genesis 4; and Genesis 5)
5. Seth – 912 years old (Genesis 4; Genesis 5; 1 Chronicles 1:1 – 3)
6. Kenan – 910 years old (Genesis 5:9,10,12,13,14; Luke 3:36 – 37; and 1 Chronicles 1:2)
7. Enos – 905 years old (Genesis 4:26; Genesis 5:6 – 11; and Luke 3:38)
8. Mahalalel – 895 years old (Genesis 5:12 – 17; 1 Chronicles 1:1; Jubilees 4:14 – 15; and Luke 3:37)
9. Lamech – 777 years old (Genesis Chapter 5; Luke 3:36)
10. Enoch – 365 years old (Genesis 5:18 – 24; Luke 3:37; Hebrews 11:5; and Jude 1:14 – 15)
But really, I have no idea why anyone should be impressed by human beings being able to say how old human beings could potentially (albeit rarely) live in real life. Of the biblical "knowledge" people claim as evidence for the bible's accuracy, this is one of the most banal and mundane observations I've ever heard of. This is tantamount to claiming "the bible is true because it mentions that a lot of rain can cause floods!!"
A little devils advocate but all of those precede Genesis 6:3. A reasonable interpretation implies that before the proclamation was made by God in 6:3 so that hence forth, no person would live longer than 120 years.
Correction: Noah lives longer than 120 years and that narrative is after Genesis 6:3
No time frame is given to implement the age update in Genesis 6:3 to the best of my knowledge, we only know it was pushed out at some point in time falling between the flood & Moses being born. If it was a day 0 patch Noah would have fallen dead on the spot, and Moses died @ 120 exactly in perfect health so that’s good evidence the change was already in place for him. 10 billion + times since Moses not a single human has been recorded living past the age of 120 years despite constantly pushing up against the limit in modern times.
I mean it's all myth and legend so sure, anything could have happened in the narratives. That doesn't make any of it true, and that doesn't somehow turn claims into evidence that can support those claims.
Why should we start with Moses if the the line is in Genesis 6:3. Shouldn't we count everyone after the flood (which begins in Genesis 6)?
Additionally, since Noah lived 350 years after the flood, then your "update patch" would have been at latest, 230 years after the flood (350-120).
But Shem, Noah's son dies 500 years after the flood, meaning that he lived 270 years past that "update patch". He also dies well past Genesis 6:3 in chapter 11.
But wait there's more, if we follow Shem's line, Arpachshad lives 438 years, Selah 433 years, Eber 464 years, Peleg 239 years, and Serug 200 years. It's not until Nahor that someone in this line lives less than 120 years and that point we are about 1,000 years past Genesis 6:3.
So if you are right, Genesis says that humans won't live past 120 years, but puts that verse 1,000 years before it becomes true even in its own internal narrative. That's some good sharpshootin', Tex.
Walk me through this.
P1: A book says A caused B.
P2: B is true
C: A exists.
Its a fun game! Let me try.
P1: My pet pixie causes rain to fall.
P2: Rain falls.
C: My pet pixie exists and is the cause of rain.
Oh what joy! What fun we can have with this sort of logic!
>Throwing out the ridiculous claims of outlier Jeanne Calment
So we can throw out the ridiculous claims of outliers Adam and Methuselah, right? Or do they show that humans can live longer than 120 years? Either their ages are correct and the bible is wrong about how long humans live, or the bible is correct in how long humans live and their ages are wrong. Either way you slice it, the bible has to be wrong.
And when humans regularly start living longer than 120 years due to advancements in medicine and life extension technology, that will show that the bible is wrong too, correct?
>Human remains from the early Bronze Age indicate an LEB of 24.[4] In 2019, world LEB was 73.3.[5]
LEB is life expectancy at birth. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_expectancy
Also Jeanne Calment lived to 122.
So did god forget to kill her for two years? This is extremely bad evidence.
Jeanne Calment could be a fraud. There is evidence to suggest she was actually her own daughter so to speak. The jury is out on that one and I am not going to get caught up in that. But that's neither here nor there. Taking the completely idiotic stance that some bible verses prove god, is by definition stupid. You can't use the bible to prove the bible. Also to get Moses involved when there is exactly zero evidence for that story is kinda dumb.
OP is just a theist doing what theists do
That evidence is weak. It's claims by two mathematicians
"The verification of her age began in 1995 when she turned 120, and was conducted over a full year. She was asked questions about documented details concerning relatives, and about people and places from her early life, for instance teachers or maids. A great deal of emphasis was put on a series of documents from population censuses, in which Calment was named from 1876 to 1975. The family's membership in the local Catholic [*bourgeoisie*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bourgeoisie) helped researchers find corroborating chains of documentary evidence. Calment's father had been a member of the city council, and her husband owned a large drapery and clothing business. The family lived in two apartments located in the same building as the store, one for Calment, her husband and his mother, one for their daughter Yvonne, her husband and their child. Several house servants were registered in the premises as well."
There we are then. I never really looked into it tbh. Not really that interesting. I only know the controverse was there and what it was generally about. Thank you for clarifying it
To be fair, the Life Expectancy At Birth from the bronze age is highly distorted -- massive amounts of people died as babies or young children, making the average life expectancy extremely low, but if you *did* reach adulthood people still lived lifespans comparable to our own. It's entirely possible there could have been people who were 120 years old in the bronze age.
I just don't really know what that fact has to do with god.
This is solidly begging the question.
The evidence you provided is the story that says the creator God did something. So, it's not evidence that it exists. Just the claim. A falsifiable claim, that has been falsified by showing at last one person who have lived to more than 120 years. Jeanne Calment (1875–1997) is the only documented person to have lived past 120 years old, reaching the age of 122 years and 164 days.
Moreover, there is scant reliable evidence of anyone actually being able to live longer than that, with some estimating the probabilities of livng beyond 130 at around 13%. Claiming that the Bible says that folks lived over 900 years in early humanity is not supported and us beging the question.
If you already believe what the Bible says, then why not believe it all?
The "oldest person" in the Middle Ages likely did not live as long as the "oldest person" today. So in the future, when someone lives longer than 120, will your claim be disproven?
So, referencing the equivalent of Dungeons & Dragons is what you consider as evidence?
The Bible, the words in it are written by people, and have been reinterpreted and reformed over hundreds of years. We have this ongoing problem when considering how it came to be that all of these words have been clumped together too.
If you believe your deity of choice is perfect and us lowly humans are not perfect, then there is an immediate issue. Whatever your deity of choice thinks and communicates is perfection. But, humans are not perfect. We are so not perfect that we probably can’t actually understand perfection. Do you see, at this point, that much of what was allegedly written could have been misunderstood and misinterpreted by imperfect humans?
Which leads us to, the parts of the Bible that you claim are evidence of a deity are probably mistakes in translation. I don’t know about you, but I would not trust it.
I never claimed the creator god in Genesis is perfect, in fact the opposite. As far as your proposal of Genesis 6:3 “120” probably being a mistranslation, so they mistranslated a number? You want to rethink that one, get back to me?
I never claimed that you claimed your deity of choice was perfect.
I’m explaining logically where the problem is.
I’m telling you why the source of your argument is flawed.
OK, that’s all.
> so they mistranslated a number?
Don't we know of a lot of numbers changed in various copies or translations of the bible? The [chronology of the pre- and post-flood years](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genealogies_of_Genesis#Genesis_chrono-genealogy) for instance: the Septuagint (which is one of the oldest versions of the bible afaik) has an extra hundred years between the births of most patriarchs in early Genesis compared to the Masoretic texts and many modern bibles, and even has an extra guy in there (who is still named in Luke despite not being in Genesis any more), adding a good 1,400 years to the earth's supposed age; while the Samaritan version meanwhile takes off a lot of years arbitrarily. There's also [Goliath's height](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goliath#Goliath's_height), which the Septuagint and other older scrolls list as a more realistic 7 feet (over 4 cubits) but Masoretic and modern bibles list as an unbelievable 10 feet (over 6 cubits), which is pretty famous as a likely mistake.
Look. Bro.
Your entire argument rests on the fact that this one individual was lying.
That’s very plausible. And if it were true that she were lying, we would respond by explaining why your logic doesn’t prove a god.
But let’s keep this simple. Defend your initial premise. Give us the evidence for how this oldest person was lying about her identity. Don’t just tell us that she is lying, try to convince us using the data.
Once you succeed in that we can move onto the next step which will be us explaining how your argument doesn’t support ultimate conclusion. If you can’t even support your own argument, there’s no point of moving on to that step
You know she lied, be honest with yourself and debate the meat of my argument and not wether some lying liar lied or not about slingshotting past the next oldest person ever by 3 f’ng years in age. Of course she lied, every damn day of her life from her mother’s funeral to the grave.
Now you are accusing people \*\*here\*\* of lying merely because they don't agree with you. This is how shallow your reasoning is. It is just inconceivable to you that you could be wrong, therefore anything and everything that could indicate you are wrong is necessarily a lie.
Here’s a peer reviewed published paper with a truckload of evidence against Jeanne Calment’s age claims > https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/10.1089/rej.2018.2167
Enjoy.
I don’t know she lied. I didn’t know she existed until today. That’s why I asked you for evidence.
This is the meat of your argument. Your entire argument is that people don’t live to be over 120. If you were being intellectually honest you would have attempted to provide evidence
But the fact that you decline to provide evidence and instead make an a circular claim that she MUST be a liar, shows that you aren’t interested in fact here. You beleive she must be a liar because otherwise you would be wrong. And you are too self absorbed to believe that you could possibly be wrong. So she IS a liar.
Show some god damn integrity
I’m sure it all started out as a simple lie for Yvonne & her husband to evade taxes on her mother’s estate and continue to receive any gov’t benefits her mother may have had coming to her as she aged. Jeanne (Yvonne) moved in with her dead daughter’s husband (but really hers) after Yvonne (but really Jeanne) died, continuing to live with him for decades until his death, neither remarried (not suspicious). At that point Jeanne (who is really Yvonne) just kept on living and living and just wouldn’t die so things started to get weird, she was stuck in the lie from 40 years past and kept doubling down on the lie, directing relatives to burn personal documents & family photos, leading out all interviews with her beauty regime to explain away her youthful appearance, telling ridiculous tales like selling paint supplies to Van Gogh in 1880s Paris following in the footsteps of her dead Mom’s youth. Digging a deeper and deeper hole till the hole was so deep and she was so old I’m sure she she was believing half her own lies and the only option was to keep digging down till they dug her a grave. And that’s how a 97 year old French lying piece of shit named Yvonne Calment became Jeanne Calment the oldest living human ever, 122 years old, living almost 3 years longer than the next oldest person EVER, and proving that god is a lie (but not really).
Sounds very plausible.
Do you have any evidence this is the case? Or is your argument for god based only some something that “could” have happened
Also you seem to be acknowledging that if anyone were to live over 120 that would prove that the god described in genesis is a lie. Is this correct?
Let’s assume that you’re right about the current longest lived person, that she lied.
Are you planning on turning to atheism when the next person hits 120? It could be as early as March 2027. That’s three years from now. And even if she dies before then the statistical probability that no one hits 120 within the century is quite low.
Are you satisfied believing in a god on the premise that human life expectancy will mysteriously halt its upward momentum at a hard cap of 120?
Just to be clear. The current oldest human is Maria Branyas Morera according to google.
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For fun, pull up a current photo of Maria who is what around 117 now and compare it side by side with a photo of Jeanne Calment taken sometime in her supposed 120s. Lies.
Again. Very plausible.
But how are you so comfortable basing your determination on the existence of a god on something that is plausible but you have yet to provide evidence for
And you will commit, right now, to saying that \*\*everyone\*\* else on that list above, say, 115 has correct ages? Is there anyone else you are going to call a fraud if they pass 120?
Here’s a peer reviewed published paper with a truckload of evidence against Jeanne Calment’s age claims > https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/10.1089/rej.2018.2167
Enjoy.
Their argument is literally just that she is a statistical outlier. Statistical outliers happen. he basically cherry-picked a particular stastical model that fit his conclusion, when others show opposite conclusions. There is a reason this paper isn't taken seriously. Here is a detailed point-by-point refutation:
[https://academic.oup.com/biomedgerontology/article/74/Supplement\_1/S13/5569844](https://academic.oup.com/biomedgerontology/article/74/Supplement_1/S13/5569844)
And another statistical refutation:
[https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/full/10.1089/rej.2019.2298](https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/full/10.1089/rej.2019.2298)
You have a couple of people with weak arguments versus an entire field. It requires a conspiracy involving her entire town. And as the links explained, there isn't even a financial motive. On the contrary, the only financial result was prolonging a debt that would have been abolished if Jeanne had died.
It literally is not just an argument that she is a statistical outlier, though she certainly is that, but there is no way you’ve read through the entire paper or you would know this. You ask for evidence, I provide evidence (in abundance), you ignore said evidence, moving on.
Here’s a peer reviewed published paper with a truckload of evidence against Jeanne Calment’s age claims > https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/10.1089/rej.2018.2167
Enjoy.
You've posted that paper roughly a million times. Ninety percent of it is baseless speculation about how and why she *would* have pulled it off. The remainder consists of proof that her lifespan is a statistical outlier (which nobody denies) and a bunch of out-of-context quotes where she appears to misspeak or misremember something.
I am like 99.9% sure Genesis 6:3 is God saying humans have 120 years left before he sends the great flood to wipe them out. It's not exactly clear but as far as I can find that's the general interpretation of it in Judaism, while Christians seem to take it as meaning humans will only live up to 120 years, despite that not being true both in the bible and irl.
What's your reasoning for assuming the latter meaning rather than the former? Also if you're so hung up on that being absolutely true and Calment being a liar, what's your opinion on other parts of Genesis talking about the age of the earth and universe being in the thousands rather than the billions? You don't seem like an average creationist saying God is a flawed creator so I'm curious.
The circumstances surrounding Moses’ death (died at 120 exactly in good health) recorded in Deut 34:7 gives context to Genesis 6:3 so detractors can’t wiggle out by claiming Gen 6:3 doesn’t really mean what it clearly means, Humans = 120 Max Age.
My beliefs are that Genesis 6:3 is true and solid evidence of a creator god, that Jesus was Judas and he did not die on the cross and I know God exists.
The Harry Potter books regularly depict young teens traveling to boarding schools on trains in Great Britain.
Fact one: Young teens exist
Fact two: Trains exist
Fact three: Boarding schools exist
Fact four: People (including young teens) often travel on trains.
Fact five: Great Britain exists
Summary: The facts recounted in the Harry Potter books are demonstrated to be true
Ergo: Wizards and witches exist
Agreed?
I was watching Terminator. Someone in the movie got shot and died. We know that bullet wounds are often fatal. Therefore killer time-traveling cyborgs are real.
You think that people a few 1000 years ago correctly determining human maximum age somehow proves god?
It is something they could know just by keeping up with the ages of their loved ones.
That you think this is special knowledge baffles me.
Their “loved ones” were regularly living past the age of 900 yrs old at the time the creator god came down with the the 120 yr age update in Genesis 6:3. So no, you couldn’t just “eye-ball” a good guess by checking out the people around you.
Even the most ardent YECs don't believe Genesis was written right after the Flood. If you believe the Pentateuch is literally true, then you must also believe that it was written no earlier than the death of Moses. By that point, no living human would have known anyone to live more than 120 years.
I made no such claims. My argument is for Gen 6:3 being true. Deut 34:7 gives context to Gen 6:3 for those that would argue Gen 6:3 doesn’t mean what it clearly means, human age = 120 max.
That’s not the argument in OP, instead you show me documented proof any human has lived past 120 years. There can’t be documented proof of JEANNE CALMENT, because she’s on record having directed her relatives to gather up all her personal records and burn them. That’s not suspicious at all.
So you don’t actually think that people were regularly living past 900 years old prior to genesis 6:3? If you do, you have to prove it. If you don’t, then the Bible is just making a mundane observation about the average age of the elderly
Again different argument, I have no clear, direct, verifiable way to prove or disprove the lifespans of humans many thousands of years past whether I believe these claims in Genesis to be true or false. However, I can easily do so with Genesis 6:3 claims simply by looking at the world around me.
Hey, you older than 120? No? Know anyone older than 120? No? Yeah, me neither. Creator god confirmed.
>Hey, you older than 120? No? Know anyone older than 120? No? Yeah, me neither. Creator god confirmed.
This is why literally every theist gets downvoted to shit around here. Because of dishonest bullshit like this
I don't even think you're serious. I think your an atheist troll trying to make religious people look stupid.
>Hey, you older than 120? No? Know anyone older than 120? No? Yeah, me neither. Creator god confirmed.
This rock keeps tigers away. See any tigers around here? No?
Same reasoning.
Well no. See since you agree that your earlier claim about people living to 900 is unprovable it can be dismissed off hand. Which brings us back to the start of this thread, where people writing the Bible could simply keep up with the age of their loved ones and know how long people lived.
She's not "on record." Someone claimed this but the claim was never proven.
But let's say it is true. Why would a French person who lived in the middle of the GERMAN FUCKING OCCUPATION of France in the middle of WW2 want family documents to be burned?
Hmm..that is a head scratcher.
>Their “loved ones” were regularly living past the age of 900 yrs old at the time
show proof
if we are to just presume the bible to be true why bother with this argument, just say "i presume the bible to be true therefore god"
we aren't going to accept that presumption, so show evidence
[The longest documented and verified human lifespan is that of Jeanne Calment of France, a woman who lived to age 122 years and 164 days.[3]](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oldest_people#:~:text=ever%20are%20female.-,The%20longest%20documented%20and%20verified%20human%20lifespan%20is%20that%20of,Jean%2DMarie%20Robine%20and%20Dr.)
There’s no good reason accept the claim in Genesis, nor to believe that Moses lived at all. But, if you wanted to believe in this nonsense, how can you rationalize the Bible’s claims that Adam and Noah lived for 900 years or so?
Just for clarity, the Bible story implies that while Adam and his early descendants lived improbably long lives, God intervened to set an upper limit of 120 some time later. Nonetheless, your main point is valid, and this is not really evidence of anything.
When exactly was this intervention supported to have taken effect? In Genesis 6, god supposedly intervenes to shorten the lifespan of humanity, but then after that Noah lives until he’s 930 or so, AND his descendants are described as living for 400+, 300+, 200+ years (Genesis 11).
It’s all a complete crock of idiotic horseshit, but in this case it in no way defeats my secondary counterclaim from my first post.
No time frame is given to implement the age update to the best of my knowledge, we only know it was pushed out at some point in time falling between the flood & Moses being born. If it was a day 0 patch Noah would have fallen dead on the spot, and Moses died @ 120 exactly in perfect health so that’s good evidence the change was already in place for him. 10 billion + times since Moses not a single human has been recorded living past the age of 120 years despite constantly pushing up against the limit in modern times.
There is no good reason to believe that Moses existed at all, much less accept any of the other ridiculous claims that the Bible makes. Grow up and put down the kool-aid.
And the 10 billion + times Genesis 6:3 has proven to be correct, and not wrong 1 single time? You just gonna throw that avalanche of evidence out and bury your head back in the sand.
It's very poor "evidence" though. Predicting 120 years as the age limit isn't impressive. It would be true for every age greater. Could have been 130, 135, or whatever. Lucky guess, not anything "proven".
It's the usual problem with the bible being correct:
*"If the bible says X, Y, and Z and X is correct, that must mean that Y and Z are also correct!"*
What you have *at best* is evidence that the bible is correct about human life expectancy and that's it. Absolutely nothing about god being real.
So if the Bible got the life expectancy right, absent some intelligent creator, how’d they do that? Lucky guess? Darts?
And if the Bible got this one seemingly crazy claim right, God only knows what else may be true.
>So if the Bible got the life expectancy right
It objectively didn't. But even if it did, it's irrelevant. It's not an indication of god, it's an indication of a piece of data being accurate.
>And if the Bible got this one seemingly crazy claim right, God only knows what else may be true.
So that's a yes then, you are in fact using the incredible atrocious logic of "a book says X, Y, and Z is true, and X is true, therefore Y and Z are also true!"
I suspect because you can't actually demonstrate the existence of your god, so you have to fall back on bad logic to make it work.
You dismissed Calmet as a criminal and liar. But you failed to provide a shred of evidence.
"The verification of her age began in 1995 when she turned 120, and was conducted over a full year. She was asked questions about documented details concerning relatives, and about people and places from her early life, for instance teachers or maids. A great deal of emphasis was put on a series of documents from population censuses, in which Calment was named from 1876 to 1975. **The family's membership in the local Catholic** [***bourgeoisie***](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bourgeoisie) **helped researchers find corroborating chains of documentary evidence.** Calment's father had been a member of the city council, and her husband owned a large drapery and clothing business. The family lived in two apartments located in the same building as the store, one for Calment, her husband and his mother, one for their daughter Yvonne, her husband and their child. Several house servants were registered in the premises as well."
this is just playing with numbers. cherry picking specific verses you think contains some hidden meaning. muslims come here with all sorts of out-there claims about secret numerology messages in the quran. does this mean the quran is true?
What hidden meanings? It flat out states 120 years, 10 billion ppl since Moses have died < 120 years, 0 ppl are documented to have lived > 120 years. That’s not hidden, and that’s certainly not cherry-picking numbers.
as someone else posted there are also plenty of people in the bible who supposedly lived to be 100s of years old. so why are not going by those verses? its because it doesn't fit the numbers game you are playing.
I suggest you wash your mouth with a soap and go learn the foundations of logic. Your argument is bust. The book says that a character in the book says humans don't live past 120 years and humans tend to live less than 120 years. Is that character right? Somewhat. Only if you ignore that one piece of evidence. Is that character real? We can not make such conclusion from the book. In fact there are books who's characters are wrong, but real. And there are books who's characters are right, but are made up.
*Solid* evidence for a creator god? In an old book? The book is the claim, not the evidence.
It’s widely accepted Moses of the bible is a fiction.
What about all of the other people who *didn’t* die at 120? You’re clutching at straws with this coincidence that a few happened to pop their clogs then.
How is this solid evidence of a creator god? How is this related to the claim of a creator god?
Do you think the people who wrote the bible were unable to tell how long humans lived for?
>Could they tell the max age of all humanity to the day, no.
Yes? By keeping track of how long people lived?
Like, you just figured out the maximum age of humanity to the day in your OP.
Ummm , some species of whale verifiably live more than 200 years. The oldest verifiable tree is more than 4,800 years old. Living beings. Living among us. Nothing special about human longevity. We are special only in our intelligence and our shared psychopathy to deal with it
Just as some general guidance for you on this sub. We don’t consider the bible or any other holy text evidence. They contain an obvious bias towards their own legitimacy and have too many proven errors to be considered by atheists. It’s like trying to submit a research paper that only cites itself, you’d be laughed out of the room.
I would point out that the oldest woman ever just died at ~122.5 years, so god has decided to make at least one exception.
Regardless, it seems to be more of an arbitrary benchmark based on the base twelve number systems of the time and the age Moses died at in scripture. It’s essentially the base twelve equivalent of how we see 100 as a nice even round number.
I will say this is actually a decent argument that would have been pretty hard to disprove until two years ago, but Jeanne Calment disproved the venture with her longevity.
Ah yes, I see you mentioned her.
There isn’t much evidence for what you claim other than her mixing up some people and exaggerating things, which as someone who’s worked with the elderly is not at all surprising. Especially the most often cited case of her mixing up her father and husband is actually pretty standard. On the other hand, she’s had the same name her whole life and has consistently lived in one of the most well recorded towns in Europe, so we have all of her documents as seen [here](https://www.demogr.mpg.de/books/odense/6/09.htm) from a respected demographic research institute.
It’s also just silly, the conspiracy is that she died at 65 and her 36 year old daughter took her name. 1. No one in their community was going to be tricked by a 29 year age gap and 2. I don’t know if you know any women, but I don’t know any 30 year olds who want to be 30 years older. It’s not like the Guinness book of world records existed in 1934 and her housing wasn’t guaranteed until 1965.
You can’t just take the thing that disproves your theory and say “ignore that”. It just makes you look belligerent or facetious.
Dude you got so many basic facts wrong in this post, go back and read the Wikipedia article again, this time spend more than 30 secs skimming through it. You’re ages/dates are so far off it’s laughable.
I apologize, I’m not sure what went wrong with my math, the perils of multitasking, however the point stands. I spent most of my time trying to find the dishonesty you mentioned but I should have checked the numbers.
With a birth date of 1875 and her daughter’s death in 1934, the theory is that she died at 59 and her 36 year old daughter took her place. I amend the statement to no one being tricked by a 23 year age gap and no one I know wanting to be twenty years older. The incorrect numbers don’t make the assertion less unfounded.
Is there some massive dishonesty on her part that I missed?
I’m sure it all started out as a simple lie for Yvonne & her husband to evade taxes on her mother’s estate and continue to receive any gov’t benefits her mother may have had coming to her as she aged. Jeanne (Yvonne) moved in with her dead daughter’s husband (but really hers) after Yvonne (but really Jeanne) died, continuing to live with him for decades until his death, neither remarried (not suspicious). At that point Jeanne (who is really Yvonne) just kept on living and living and just wouldn’t die so things started to get weird, she was stuck in the lie from 40 years past and kept doubling down on the lie, directing relatives to burn personal documents & family photos, leading out all interviews with her beauty regime to explain away her youthful appearance, telling ridiculous tales like selling paint supplies to Van Gogh in 1880s Paris following in the footsteps of her dead Mom’s youth. Digging a deeper and deeper hole till the hole was so deep and she was so old I’m sure she she was believing half her own lies and the only option was to keep digging down till they dug her a grave. And that’s how a 97 year old French lying piece of shit named Yvonne Calment became Jeanne Calment the oldest living human ever, 122 years old, living almost 3 years longer than the next oldest person EVER, and proving that god is a lie (but not really).
Except we have the [death record](https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Acte-de-deces-dYvonne-Calment-Le-19-janvier-1934-enregistre-a-la-mairie-dArles-le_fig1_332655177) of Yvonne.
I’ll leave the reasoning to this [excellent issue](https://academic.oup.com/biomedgerontology/article/74/Supplement_1/S13/5569844) of the journal of gerontology, as it goes line by line through the different claims including the identity swap. It’s literally the journal of people who study old age so I don’t know what better source I could give.
Ok, I then will use all of humanity ever from Moses till now as evidence, not 1 documented case of a human living > 120 yrs, while billions lived < 120 yrs. Boom, creator god confirmed.
Show me Moses' death certificate. Or birth certificate. Or any proof that the man actually existed.
Again, this is a lazy and half baked argument. I'm not convinced of your creator god in the slightest.
Why would you believe anything god says in the bible if god is the one who told the first lie, and then punished all involved?
Genesis 2:16-17.
The “fact” (according to the bible) is that Adam didn’t die that day.
The average human life expectancy isn't even close to 120 years (yet), and that's even after advances in medical science have more than doubled it (back when that passage was written, average human life expectancy was what... 50? Less?)
So because our advancements have brought us to a point, *thousands of years later,* when a *handful* of people have gotten *close* to 120 (and an even smaller handful have been confirmed to live *past* 120), suddenly this is prophetic and proves something? How about when further advances increase the average human life expectancy *beyond* 120 years? How about when we figure out how to make ourselves *immortal?* There are several different ways that could be accomplished and scientists are pursuing all of them - it's only a matter of time before they succeed.
So in the end, there will have been a relatively brief period when that passage was accurate - and that brief period will have occurred thousands of years after it was written, and shortly be surpassed so that it's incorrect again forevermore. And yet somehow, because you happen to be alive during the first inklings of that brief period, you're convinced it's prophetic? My friend, you couldn't have demonstrated a more textbook example of confirmation bias if I had provided you with a script to follow.
Maybe this is nitpicky but there's a big difference between average life expectancy and the maximum age that people live to. Until relatively recently, child mortality was through the roof (it still is in some areas). It used to be that in some areas up to 50% of children died before age 5. That really skews the average. So when we say that the average life expectancy was 40 or something like that in the middle ages, really most people who made it past early childhood had a good chance of making it into their 60s. Even back then there were a few people who lived to their 80s and such. People lived longer than you think.
It's fairly late and I am very tired. Can you please clarify what it is that you are presenting as evidence and what specifically is being proven with it?
You just listed a few biblical quotes and a collection of Wikipedia articles.
This is an important question I want you to consider.
If you were presented with a person who was verifiably 121 years old, would you stop believing in God?
I don’t believe in God, I know. And this is the creator god we are talking about here, little “g” not the big “G” God and by all accounts I’ve read he a little “b” too.
So to answer your question directly, Yes. But I never believed in that little “b” to begin with.
The obvious, humans existed before the book was written so the fact that it describes a thing about humans isn't impressive. If anything the list proves that the Bible is wrong because people don't live to 127. If everyone lived to 127 and then died, that would be in line with what it says, and still wouldn't be prophecy because it would have been true when the book was written too.
The subtle, hey wait, I thought souls were immortal and some went to chill with God forever. Doesn't that conflict with God is annoyed by us so he kills us off at 127 like Leonardo DiCaprio breaking up with his girlfriends at their 25th birthday party?
I believe you're dismissing Jeanne Calment simply because she proves you wrong. Her age seems very well documented.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeanne_Calment
Even if I grant that the author of the Bible got it right, couldn't it just have been a good guess?
I mean, how do you show that God told the writer this? How do you know he didn't just kind of eyeball the ages of the oldest people he knew and say 'Hmmm, around 120," and then write that down?
As the author of Genesis would you document a “guess” in your people’s most revered religious texts that served as the foundation for your entire society & contained all you held to be holy & true?
To be clear, my question was: "How do you know God wrote this?"
You must concede that our hypothetical guess is possible. There are many more candidate explanations. Please demonstrate how you know that divine revelation took place, or is the most likely explanation.
Hypothetically yes, a guess is possible but not probable. Moses’ death in Deut 34:7 gives context to Genesis 6:3 so detractors can’t wiggle out by claiming Gen 6:3 doesn’t really mean what it clearly means, Humans = 120 Max Age. My bets are on a creator then.
>Hypothetically yes, a guess is possible but not probable.
It only needs to be possible, not probable. You have conceded there are multiple candidate explanations. Please show why yours is superior.
Moses allegedly dying at 120 means nothing. That's within the limit you've proposed. It neither credits nor disproves your hypothesis. It is entirely unrelated.
I can list more candidate explanations. YOU MUST demonstrate that it was divinely inspired, or your argument is nothing but wishful speculation.
So, for the third time, completely unanswered and not even *addressed*: "How do you know God wrote this?"
If the Bible states that humans' "days will be a hundred and twenty years", why does nobody live that long? You'd expect all (or at least most) humans to live that long if the Bible were correct.
Genesis 6:3 says that humans will love 120 years. I've never met a single 120-year-old person. Therefore Genesis is wrong.
>dying at exactly 120 yrs in perfect health
The Israelites were never enslaved in Egypt, which strongly suggests the stories and characters in that part of the Bible are entirely fictional. Sorry, Moses.
Beside which, what does it mean to die in perfect health? If you're dying, clearly you're not in perfect health.
How? The Bible clearly says that humans should expect to live for 120 years. Yet according to your own research, nobody does. Therefore the Bible is wrong.
We have ancient Mesopotamian tablets/manuscripts that are dated to centuries before Genesis and Deuteronomy which mention that the gods limited the human life span to 120 years (e.g. the narrative of Enlil and Namzitarra from 2nd millennium BC tablets). Our earliest extant manuscripts of the Genesis 6:3 and Deuteronomy 34:7 passages are from Greek translations dating to the 4th-5th century AD and were likely compiled during the last half of the 1st millennium BC. Ancient Mesopotamia also based their numbers on a sexagesimal system which means 120 was thought as basically just a nicely rounded number, as opposed to a specific or uniquely derived quantity. I don’t think anyone views this as evidence that the ancient Sumerian gods exist, so why should it be any different when the Bible says it.
This is all historically/archaeologically consistent with the observation that the primeval history of Genesis and the Deuteronomy law codes developed from earlier narratives and law codes that had already existed within the cultural milieu of the Ancient Near East.
Bible claims that people lived back then for insane length. It contradicts all of science. Average life was back then around 30 years due to horrible medicine, constant wars, extreme lack of basic knowledge, bad survivability, and last but not least spiritual way of thinking.Thus we can easily dismiss those hundreds of years lives as highly unlikely.
How in any way is this solid evidence? It is a pretty easy observation for people thousands of years ago to realize people don't live for 122 years.
Also, as people point out, you just blatantly skip over someone who has liced that long. She's on the verified list, so why should we accept your dismissal?
Orrrr they were just reporting what they saw in ever day life but pretended it was a prophecy after making up a bunch of people that they claimed lived multiple centuries long
I dont see many people in theirs 70s out looking around but if you are taking issue with there not being many people living to 120 wouldnt that same criticism apply to the bible? They dont state up to 120, it says 120, average age now is 70 something, ill say 80 for easy math, which is 67% of 120, so not even close to 120.
You're right, it is dumb, but i think its less dumb then thinking a book that wrote a rough cap for human age limits means something not at all related to human ages exists.
I can't interpret any of these types of posts as anything other than troll / ragebait posts: "I have evidence of God because check out these Bible verses!" But OP, based on your responses to some of the comments, I dig your sense of humour / like your style! Some people just can't take a joke lol
I mean the Bible says all kinds of things. It also says there were people who lived to 800 years old, and we've seen no evidence of that, so why should we take it seriously? But more importantly, your own quote says 120 years and none of the people you mentioned lived that long, and the overwhelming majority of all humans in history haven't even gotten close to that. So if your God is saying that's how long people live, he seems to be wrong.
>My Spirit will not contend with humans forever
What's the deal with Heaven then?
>their days will be a hundred and twenty years.
Not a single person on your list was 120. Surely if "their days will be a hundred and twenty years" means what you think it does then everyone should make it to exactly 120, no exceptions.
If there is a well documented case of someone living more than 120 years will you denounce your religion?
Also, are your sure that they counted age the same way that we do? How age is counted is very much a cultural thing.
https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/6/28/why-are-south-koreans-one-year-younger-today
>My Spirit will not contend with humans forever, for they are mortal; their days will be a hundred and twenty years.
This implies *everyone* will live to be 120 years old. Yet, we don't.
Nice try.
This is not evidence. This is a claim. You would need to show that people lived longer than 120 years before Moses. Methuselah supposedly live for 969 years. That is something that should have been noted by people who lived at the time. If Methuselah did not in fact live to be 969, then the Genesis narrative is questionable and your claim is questionable. You would need to prove that it was not simply an observation and an explanation in Genesis. Any rational observer they would likely conclude that it would be natural for a myth to grow from an observation that people don't live longer than a certain age.
Many of the other narratives in Genesis, Exodus, etc. are demonstrably false. Archeology can prove that dates, facts, locations, and events are wrong in the Torah. If so many claims can be wrong, why would this be trusted when it has no supporting evidence?
Giving the Bible undue credit for the sake of this argument:
Humans at large do not live for that long, so the first verse you quoted would already be wrong.
Is that your 'solid evidence for a creator god'?
First off the bible is the claim, it is not evidence. You can't use the claim to prove it self. Why? Because anyone alive then knew nobody lived past 120 years so it would be obvious to write it as a law of god.
Secondly, in the bible there are hundreds of people that live longer. But you would have to have actually read your bible to know that.
Homo Sapiens have been on Earth for at least 300,000 years. It stands to reason that since we've had virtually the same genotype for such a long time, the anonymous authors of the writings you are referring to could have easily based their number off of the oldest living person they had personally ever known/heard of.
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Hey that's fun, I have a list of 10 people too, showing the bible disproves the bible: 1. Methuselah – 969 years old (Genesis 5:21 – 27) 2. Jared – 962 years old (Genesis 5:18 – 21) 3. Noah – 950 years old (Multiple references throughout Genesis) 4. Adam – 930 years old (Genesis 1; Genesis 2:4 – 3:24; Genesis 4; and Genesis 5) 5. Seth – 912 years old (Genesis 4; Genesis 5; 1 Chronicles 1:1 – 3) 6. Kenan – 910 years old (Genesis 5:9,10,12,13,14; Luke 3:36 – 37; and 1 Chronicles 1:2) 7. Enos – 905 years old (Genesis 4:26; Genesis 5:6 – 11; and Luke 3:38) 8. Mahalalel – 895 years old (Genesis 5:12 – 17; 1 Chronicles 1:1; Jubilees 4:14 – 15; and Luke 3:37) 9. Lamech – 777 years old (Genesis Chapter 5; Luke 3:36) 10. Enoch – 365 years old (Genesis 5:18 – 24; Luke 3:37; Hebrews 11:5; and Jude 1:14 – 15) But really, I have no idea why anyone should be impressed by human beings being able to say how old human beings could potentially (albeit rarely) live in real life. Of the biblical "knowledge" people claim as evidence for the bible's accuracy, this is one of the most banal and mundane observations I've ever heard of. This is tantamount to claiming "the bible is true because it mentions that a lot of rain can cause floods!!"
A little devils advocate but all of those precede Genesis 6:3. A reasonable interpretation implies that before the proclamation was made by God in 6:3 so that hence forth, no person would live longer than 120 years. Correction: Noah lives longer than 120 years and that narrative is after Genesis 6:3
No time frame is given to implement the age update in Genesis 6:3 to the best of my knowledge, we only know it was pushed out at some point in time falling between the flood & Moses being born. If it was a day 0 patch Noah would have fallen dead on the spot, and Moses died @ 120 exactly in perfect health so that’s good evidence the change was already in place for him. 10 billion + times since Moses not a single human has been recorded living past the age of 120 years despite constantly pushing up against the limit in modern times.
I mean it's all myth and legend so sure, anything could have happened in the narratives. That doesn't make any of it true, and that doesn't somehow turn claims into evidence that can support those claims.
Why should we start with Moses if the the line is in Genesis 6:3. Shouldn't we count everyone after the flood (which begins in Genesis 6)? Additionally, since Noah lived 350 years after the flood, then your "update patch" would have been at latest, 230 years after the flood (350-120). But Shem, Noah's son dies 500 years after the flood, meaning that he lived 270 years past that "update patch". He also dies well past Genesis 6:3 in chapter 11. But wait there's more, if we follow Shem's line, Arpachshad lives 438 years, Selah 433 years, Eber 464 years, Peleg 239 years, and Serug 200 years. It's not until Nahor that someone in this line lives less than 120 years and that point we are about 1,000 years past Genesis 6:3. So if you are right, Genesis says that humans won't live past 120 years, but puts that verse 1,000 years before it becomes true even in its own internal narrative. That's some good sharpshootin', Tex.
Not Barker but Barking should be the user name.
Walk me through this. P1: A book says A caused B. P2: B is true C: A exists. Its a fun game! Let me try. P1: My pet pixie causes rain to fall. P2: Rain falls. C: My pet pixie exists and is the cause of rain. Oh what joy! What fun we can have with this sort of logic!
>Throwing out the ridiculous claims of outlier Jeanne Calment So we can throw out the ridiculous claims of outliers Adam and Methuselah, right? Or do they show that humans can live longer than 120 years? Either their ages are correct and the bible is wrong about how long humans live, or the bible is correct in how long humans live and their ages are wrong. Either way you slice it, the bible has to be wrong. And when humans regularly start living longer than 120 years due to advancements in medicine and life extension technology, that will show that the bible is wrong too, correct?
>Human remains from the early Bronze Age indicate an LEB of 24.[4] In 2019, world LEB was 73.3.[5] LEB is life expectancy at birth. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Life_expectancy Also Jeanne Calment lived to 122. So did god forget to kill her for two years? This is extremely bad evidence.
Jeanne Calment could be a fraud. There is evidence to suggest she was actually her own daughter so to speak. The jury is out on that one and I am not going to get caught up in that. But that's neither here nor there. Taking the completely idiotic stance that some bible verses prove god, is by definition stupid. You can't use the bible to prove the bible. Also to get Moses involved when there is exactly zero evidence for that story is kinda dumb. OP is just a theist doing what theists do
That evidence is weak. It's claims by two mathematicians "The verification of her age began in 1995 when she turned 120, and was conducted over a full year. She was asked questions about documented details concerning relatives, and about people and places from her early life, for instance teachers or maids. A great deal of emphasis was put on a series of documents from population censuses, in which Calment was named from 1876 to 1975. The family's membership in the local Catholic [*bourgeoisie*](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bourgeoisie) helped researchers find corroborating chains of documentary evidence. Calment's father had been a member of the city council, and her husband owned a large drapery and clothing business. The family lived in two apartments located in the same building as the store, one for Calment, her husband and his mother, one for their daughter Yvonne, her husband and their child. Several house servants were registered in the premises as well."
There we are then. I never really looked into it tbh. Not really that interesting. I only know the controverse was there and what it was generally about. Thank you for clarifying it
To be fair, the Life Expectancy At Birth from the bronze age is highly distorted -- massive amounts of people died as babies or young children, making the average life expectancy extremely low, but if you *did* reach adulthood people still lived lifespans comparable to our own. It's entirely possible there could have been people who were 120 years old in the bronze age. I just don't really know what that fact has to do with god.
I don't disagree with you.
This is solidly begging the question. The evidence you provided is the story that says the creator God did something. So, it's not evidence that it exists. Just the claim. A falsifiable claim, that has been falsified by showing at last one person who have lived to more than 120 years. Jeanne Calment (1875–1997) is the only documented person to have lived past 120 years old, reaching the age of 122 years and 164 days. Moreover, there is scant reliable evidence of anyone actually being able to live longer than that, with some estimating the probabilities of livng beyond 130 at around 13%. Claiming that the Bible says that folks lived over 900 years in early humanity is not supported and us beging the question. If you already believe what the Bible says, then why not believe it all?
The "oldest person" in the Middle Ages likely did not live as long as the "oldest person" today. So in the future, when someone lives longer than 120, will your claim be disproven?
So, referencing the equivalent of Dungeons & Dragons is what you consider as evidence? The Bible, the words in it are written by people, and have been reinterpreted and reformed over hundreds of years. We have this ongoing problem when considering how it came to be that all of these words have been clumped together too. If you believe your deity of choice is perfect and us lowly humans are not perfect, then there is an immediate issue. Whatever your deity of choice thinks and communicates is perfection. But, humans are not perfect. We are so not perfect that we probably can’t actually understand perfection. Do you see, at this point, that much of what was allegedly written could have been misunderstood and misinterpreted by imperfect humans? Which leads us to, the parts of the Bible that you claim are evidence of a deity are probably mistakes in translation. I don’t know about you, but I would not trust it.
I never claimed the creator god in Genesis is perfect, in fact the opposite. As far as your proposal of Genesis 6:3 “120” probably being a mistranslation, so they mistranslated a number? You want to rethink that one, get back to me?
I never claimed that you claimed your deity of choice was perfect. I’m explaining logically where the problem is. I’m telling you why the source of your argument is flawed. OK, that’s all.
> so they mistranslated a number? Don't we know of a lot of numbers changed in various copies or translations of the bible? The [chronology of the pre- and post-flood years](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genealogies_of_Genesis#Genesis_chrono-genealogy) for instance: the Septuagint (which is one of the oldest versions of the bible afaik) has an extra hundred years between the births of most patriarchs in early Genesis compared to the Masoretic texts and many modern bibles, and even has an extra guy in there (who is still named in Luke despite not being in Genesis any more), adding a good 1,400 years to the earth's supposed age; while the Samaritan version meanwhile takes off a lot of years arbitrarily. There's also [Goliath's height](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goliath#Goliath's_height), which the Septuagint and other older scrolls list as a more realistic 7 feet (over 4 cubits) but Masoretic and modern bibles list as an unbelievable 10 feet (over 6 cubits), which is pretty famous as a likely mistake.
Look. Bro. Your entire argument rests on the fact that this one individual was lying. That’s very plausible. And if it were true that she were lying, we would respond by explaining why your logic doesn’t prove a god. But let’s keep this simple. Defend your initial premise. Give us the evidence for how this oldest person was lying about her identity. Don’t just tell us that she is lying, try to convince us using the data. Once you succeed in that we can move onto the next step which will be us explaining how your argument doesn’t support ultimate conclusion. If you can’t even support your own argument, there’s no point of moving on to that step
You know she lied, be honest with yourself and debate the meat of my argument and not wether some lying liar lied or not about slingshotting past the next oldest person ever by 3 f’ng years in age. Of course she lied, every damn day of her life from her mother’s funeral to the grave.
Now you are accusing people \*\*here\*\* of lying merely because they don't agree with you. This is how shallow your reasoning is. It is just inconceivable to you that you could be wrong, therefore anything and everything that could indicate you are wrong is necessarily a lie.
Here’s a peer reviewed published paper with a truckload of evidence against Jeanne Calment’s age claims > https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/10.1089/rej.2018.2167 Enjoy.
I don’t know she lied. I didn’t know she existed until today. That’s why I asked you for evidence. This is the meat of your argument. Your entire argument is that people don’t live to be over 120. If you were being intellectually honest you would have attempted to provide evidence But the fact that you decline to provide evidence and instead make an a circular claim that she MUST be a liar, shows that you aren’t interested in fact here. You beleive she must be a liar because otherwise you would be wrong. And you are too self absorbed to believe that you could possibly be wrong. So she IS a liar. Show some god damn integrity
I’m sure it all started out as a simple lie for Yvonne & her husband to evade taxes on her mother’s estate and continue to receive any gov’t benefits her mother may have had coming to her as she aged. Jeanne (Yvonne) moved in with her dead daughter’s husband (but really hers) after Yvonne (but really Jeanne) died, continuing to live with him for decades until his death, neither remarried (not suspicious). At that point Jeanne (who is really Yvonne) just kept on living and living and just wouldn’t die so things started to get weird, she was stuck in the lie from 40 years past and kept doubling down on the lie, directing relatives to burn personal documents & family photos, leading out all interviews with her beauty regime to explain away her youthful appearance, telling ridiculous tales like selling paint supplies to Van Gogh in 1880s Paris following in the footsteps of her dead Mom’s youth. Digging a deeper and deeper hole till the hole was so deep and she was so old I’m sure she she was believing half her own lies and the only option was to keep digging down till they dug her a grave. And that’s how a 97 year old French lying piece of shit named Yvonne Calment became Jeanne Calment the oldest living human ever, 122 years old, living almost 3 years longer than the next oldest person EVER, and proving that god is a lie (but not really).
Sounds very plausible. Do you have any evidence this is the case? Or is your argument for god based only some something that “could” have happened Also you seem to be acknowledging that if anyone were to live over 120 that would prove that the god described in genesis is a lie. Is this correct?
Yes, I would agree with that but leave the door ajar for new evidence/arguments to arrive.
Let’s assume that you’re right about the current longest lived person, that she lied. Are you planning on turning to atheism when the next person hits 120? It could be as early as March 2027. That’s three years from now. And even if she dies before then the statistical probability that no one hits 120 within the century is quite low. Are you satisfied believing in a god on the premise that human life expectancy will mysteriously halt its upward momentum at a hard cap of 120? Just to be clear. The current oldest human is Maria Branyas Morera according to google. RemindMe! 3 years
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For fun, pull up a current photo of Maria who is what around 117 now and compare it side by side with a photo of Jeanne Calment taken sometime in her supposed 120s. Lies.
Again. Very plausible. But how are you so comfortable basing your determination on the existence of a god on something that is plausible but you have yet to provide evidence for
I ‘ll take that bet.
And you will commit, right now, to saying that \*\*everyone\*\* else on that list above, say, 115 has correct ages? Is there anyone else you are going to call a fraud if they pass 120?
No one will pass 120 yrs old, hard cap.
Let’s see how it turns out
You again ignored the request for evidence.
Here’s a peer reviewed published paper with a truckload of evidence against Jeanne Calment’s age claims > https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/10.1089/rej.2018.2167 Enjoy.
Their argument is literally just that she is a statistical outlier. Statistical outliers happen. he basically cherry-picked a particular stastical model that fit his conclusion, when others show opposite conclusions. There is a reason this paper isn't taken seriously. Here is a detailed point-by-point refutation: [https://academic.oup.com/biomedgerontology/article/74/Supplement\_1/S13/5569844](https://academic.oup.com/biomedgerontology/article/74/Supplement_1/S13/5569844) And another statistical refutation: [https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/full/10.1089/rej.2019.2298](https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/full/10.1089/rej.2019.2298) You have a couple of people with weak arguments versus an entire field. It requires a conspiracy involving her entire town. And as the links explained, there isn't even a financial motive. On the contrary, the only financial result was prolonging a debt that would have been abolished if Jeanne had died.
It literally is not just an argument that she is a statistical outlier, though she certainly is that, but there is no way you’ve read through the entire paper or you would know this. You ask for evidence, I provide evidence (in abundance), you ignore said evidence, moving on.
Where is the evidence that any of this is true? This is all baseless conjecture. You need actual evidence.
Here’s a peer reviewed published paper with a truckload of evidence against Jeanne Calment’s age claims > https://www.liebertpub.com/doi/10.1089/rej.2018.2167 Enjoy.
You've posted that paper roughly a million times. Ninety percent of it is baseless speculation about how and why she *would* have pulled it off. The remainder consists of proof that her lifespan is a statistical outlier (which nobody denies) and a bunch of out-of-context quotes where she appears to misspeak or misremember something.
Jeanne Calment ***is*** on the verified list. It makes no sense to remove her from the list so I won't.
I am like 99.9% sure Genesis 6:3 is God saying humans have 120 years left before he sends the great flood to wipe them out. It's not exactly clear but as far as I can find that's the general interpretation of it in Judaism, while Christians seem to take it as meaning humans will only live up to 120 years, despite that not being true both in the bible and irl. What's your reasoning for assuming the latter meaning rather than the former? Also if you're so hung up on that being absolutely true and Calment being a liar, what's your opinion on other parts of Genesis talking about the age of the earth and universe being in the thousands rather than the billions? You don't seem like an average creationist saying God is a flawed creator so I'm curious.
The circumstances surrounding Moses’ death (died at 120 exactly in good health) recorded in Deut 34:7 gives context to Genesis 6:3 so detractors can’t wiggle out by claiming Gen 6:3 doesn’t really mean what it clearly means, Humans = 120 Max Age. My beliefs are that Genesis 6:3 is true and solid evidence of a creator god, that Jesus was Judas and he did not die on the cross and I know God exists.
The Harry Potter books regularly depict young teens traveling to boarding schools on trains in Great Britain. Fact one: Young teens exist Fact two: Trains exist Fact three: Boarding schools exist Fact four: People (including young teens) often travel on trains. Fact five: Great Britain exists Summary: The facts recounted in the Harry Potter books are demonstrated to be true Ergo: Wizards and witches exist Agreed?
How does that prove a god exactly?
Jeanne Calment ***is*** on the verified list. It makes no sense to remove her from the list so I won't.
I was watching Terminator. Someone in the movie got shot and died. We know that bullet wounds are often fatal. Therefore killer time-traveling cyborgs are real.
I went to the Antarctic and taught penguins to whistle. Look, here's a map of the Antarctic to prove it!
Great. Now I want a whistling penguin.
Put your trust in prayer my child.
You think that people a few 1000 years ago correctly determining human maximum age somehow proves god? It is something they could know just by keeping up with the ages of their loved ones. That you think this is special knowledge baffles me.
Their “loved ones” were regularly living past the age of 900 yrs old at the time the creator god came down with the the 120 yr age update in Genesis 6:3. So no, you couldn’t just “eye-ball” a good guess by checking out the people around you.
Even the most ardent YECs don't believe Genesis was written right after the Flood. If you believe the Pentateuch is literally true, then you must also believe that it was written no earlier than the death of Moses. By that point, no living human would have known anyone to live more than 120 years.
I made no such claims. My argument is for Gen 6:3 being true. Deut 34:7 gives context to Gen 6:3 for those that would argue Gen 6:3 doesn’t mean what it clearly means, human age = 120 max.
This is a fun claim. Now show me proof. Prove to me with solid evidence that ANY human, let alone most humans, have lived past 900 years.
That’s not the argument in OP, instead you show me documented proof any human has lived past 120 years. There can’t be documented proof of JEANNE CALMENT, because she’s on record having directed her relatives to gather up all her personal records and burn them. That’s not suspicious at all.
So you don’t actually think that people were regularly living past 900 years old prior to genesis 6:3? If you do, you have to prove it. If you don’t, then the Bible is just making a mundane observation about the average age of the elderly
Again different argument, I have no clear, direct, verifiable way to prove or disprove the lifespans of humans many thousands of years past whether I believe these claims in Genesis to be true or false. However, I can easily do so with Genesis 6:3 claims simply by looking at the world around me. Hey, you older than 120? No? Know anyone older than 120? No? Yeah, me neither. Creator god confirmed.
>Hey, you older than 120? No? Know anyone older than 120? No? Yeah, me neither. Creator god confirmed. This is why literally every theist gets downvoted to shit around here. Because of dishonest bullshit like this I don't even think you're serious. I think your an atheist troll trying to make religious people look stupid.
I snorted when I read his comment about "Hey, you older than 120?..." This is typical believer reasoning.
No, theist posts get downvoted to oblivion here bcs this subreddit exists in a deafening echo chamber. I may not be serious but I am sincere.
Bullshit arguments get downvoted. You have presented a bullshit argument. At no point have you shown how any of this confirms a creator god.
>I may not be serious Then you're just wasting everyone's time. And that is exactly why you are getting downvoted. Because you're lying.
… but I am sincere. “Sincere” would infer I’m being truthful & free of deceit, stop wasting everyone’s time.
>Hey, you older than 120? No? Know anyone older than 120? No? Yeah, me neither. Creator god confirmed. This rock keeps tigers away. See any tigers around here? No? Same reasoning.
Well no. See since you agree that your earlier claim about people living to 900 is unprovable it can be dismissed off hand. Which brings us back to the start of this thread, where people writing the Bible could simply keep up with the age of their loved ones and know how long people lived.
So if a single person lives past 120 you'll stop believing in God?
She's not "on record." Someone claimed this but the claim was never proven. But let's say it is true. Why would a French person who lived in the middle of the GERMAN FUCKING OCCUPATION of France in the middle of WW2 want family documents to be burned? Hmm..that is a head scratcher.
>Their “loved ones” were regularly living past the age of 900 yrs old at the time show proof if we are to just presume the bible to be true why bother with this argument, just say "i presume the bible to be true therefore god" we aren't going to accept that presumption, so show evidence
That part of the Bible was written thousands of years later, around 700 BC or later.
[The longest documented and verified human lifespan is that of Jeanne Calment of France, a woman who lived to age 122 years and 164 days.[3]](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oldest_people#:~:text=ever%20are%20female.-,The%20longest%20documented%20and%20verified%20human%20lifespan%20is%20that%20of,Jean%2DMarie%20Robine%20and%20Dr.)
There’s no good reason accept the claim in Genesis, nor to believe that Moses lived at all. But, if you wanted to believe in this nonsense, how can you rationalize the Bible’s claims that Adam and Noah lived for 900 years or so?
Just for clarity, the Bible story implies that while Adam and his early descendants lived improbably long lives, God intervened to set an upper limit of 120 some time later. Nonetheless, your main point is valid, and this is not really evidence of anything.
So, god made a mistake and had to change his mind?
It appears he had second thoughts, but not as much as when he decided to wipe out the whole of humanity (bar Noah and family).
Well then, so much for all knowing. Unless he knew he was going to kill everyone and that’s just terrible.
Yup. Well the imperfect creator god made a mistake & patched it.
When exactly was this intervention supported to have taken effect? In Genesis 6, god supposedly intervenes to shorten the lifespan of humanity, but then after that Noah lives until he’s 930 or so, AND his descendants are described as living for 400+, 300+, 200+ years (Genesis 11). It’s all a complete crock of idiotic horseshit, but in this case it in no way defeats my secondary counterclaim from my first post.
Yup, the patriarchal line is treated as special. To be clear, I don’t believe this stuff or support OP.
Oh I know, just wanted to point out all of the other obvious exceptions so that OP doesn’t try to weasel out of the debate.
No time frame is given to implement the age update to the best of my knowledge, we only know it was pushed out at some point in time falling between the flood & Moses being born. If it was a day 0 patch Noah would have fallen dead on the spot, and Moses died @ 120 exactly in perfect health so that’s good evidence the change was already in place for him. 10 billion + times since Moses not a single human has been recorded living past the age of 120 years despite constantly pushing up against the limit in modern times.
There is no good reason to believe that Moses existed at all, much less accept any of the other ridiculous claims that the Bible makes. Grow up and put down the kool-aid.
And the 10 billion + times Genesis 6:3 has proven to be correct, and not wrong 1 single time? You just gonna throw that avalanche of evidence out and bury your head back in the sand.
Please recite the age of death for all 10+ billion and verify that not a single one lived a second past 120 years. I’ll wait.
It's very poor "evidence" though. Predicting 120 years as the age limit isn't impressive. It would be true for every age greater. Could have been 130, 135, or whatever. Lucky guess, not anything "proven".
The Bible doesn't say it's an upper limit.
It's the usual problem with the bible being correct: *"If the bible says X, Y, and Z and X is correct, that must mean that Y and Z are also correct!"* What you have *at best* is evidence that the bible is correct about human life expectancy and that's it. Absolutely nothing about god being real.
So if the Bible got the life expectancy right, absent some intelligent creator, how’d they do that? Lucky guess? Darts? And if the Bible got this one seemingly crazy claim right, God only knows what else may be true.
>So if the Bible got the life expectancy right It objectively didn't. But even if it did, it's irrelevant. It's not an indication of god, it's an indication of a piece of data being accurate. >And if the Bible got this one seemingly crazy claim right, God only knows what else may be true. So that's a yes then, you are in fact using the incredible atrocious logic of "a book says X, Y, and Z is true, and X is true, therefore Y and Z are also true!" I suspect because you can't actually demonstrate the existence of your god, so you have to fall back on bad logic to make it work.
> Lucky guess? Yes! Now you're cooking with gas.
By seeing people age and die? lol
You dismissed Calmet as a criminal and liar. But you failed to provide a shred of evidence. "The verification of her age began in 1995 when she turned 120, and was conducted over a full year. She was asked questions about documented details concerning relatives, and about people and places from her early life, for instance teachers or maids. A great deal of emphasis was put on a series of documents from population censuses, in which Calment was named from 1876 to 1975. **The family's membership in the local Catholic** [***bourgeoisie***](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bourgeoisie) **helped researchers find corroborating chains of documentary evidence.** Calment's father had been a member of the city council, and her husband owned a large drapery and clothing business. The family lived in two apartments located in the same building as the store, one for Calment, her husband and his mother, one for their daughter Yvonne, her husband and their child. Several house servants were registered in the premises as well."
> Throwing out the ridiculous claims of outlier Jeanne Calment, That's rich coming from someone defending the claims from the bible.
this is just playing with numbers. cherry picking specific verses you think contains some hidden meaning. muslims come here with all sorts of out-there claims about secret numerology messages in the quran. does this mean the quran is true?
What hidden meanings? It flat out states 120 years, 10 billion ppl since Moses have died < 120 years, 0 ppl are documented to have lived > 120 years. That’s not hidden, and that’s certainly not cherry-picking numbers.
as someone else posted there are also plenty of people in the bible who supposedly lived to be 100s of years old. so why are not going by those verses? its because it doesn't fit the numbers game you are playing.
I suggest you wash your mouth with a soap and go learn the foundations of logic. Your argument is bust. The book says that a character in the book says humans don't live past 120 years and humans tend to live less than 120 years. Is that character right? Somewhat. Only if you ignore that one piece of evidence. Is that character real? We can not make such conclusion from the book. In fact there are books who's characters are wrong, but real. And there are books who's characters are right, but are made up.
*Solid* evidence for a creator god? In an old book? The book is the claim, not the evidence. It’s widely accepted Moses of the bible is a fiction. What about all of the other people who *didn’t* die at 120? You’re clutching at straws with this coincidence that a few happened to pop their clogs then.
How is this solid evidence of a creator god? How is this related to the claim of a creator god? Do you think the people who wrote the bible were unable to tell how long humans lived for?
Could they tell the max age of all humanity to the day, no. Still can’t, unless you’re a god or something.
>Could they tell the max age of all humanity to the day, no. Yes? By keeping track of how long people lived? Like, you just figured out the maximum age of humanity to the day in your OP.
Ummm , some species of whale verifiably live more than 200 years. The oldest verifiable tree is more than 4,800 years old. Living beings. Living among us. Nothing special about human longevity. We are special only in our intelligence and our shared psychopathy to deal with it
So your proof of god is that they guessed humans wouldn't live longer than 120 years? Pretty poor evidence if you ask me.
Just as some general guidance for you on this sub. We don’t consider the bible or any other holy text evidence. They contain an obvious bias towards their own legitimacy and have too many proven errors to be considered by atheists. It’s like trying to submit a research paper that only cites itself, you’d be laughed out of the room.
True, but I’m not submitting a research paper here either. The evidence would be the 10 billion dead < 120 yrs, 0 documented > 120 yrs since Moses.
I would point out that the oldest woman ever just died at ~122.5 years, so god has decided to make at least one exception. Regardless, it seems to be more of an arbitrary benchmark based on the base twelve number systems of the time and the age Moses died at in scripture. It’s essentially the base twelve equivalent of how we see 100 as a nice even round number. I will say this is actually a decent argument that would have been pretty hard to disprove until two years ago, but Jeanne Calment disproved the venture with her longevity.
You’re late, catch up.
Ah yes, I see you mentioned her. There isn’t much evidence for what you claim other than her mixing up some people and exaggerating things, which as someone who’s worked with the elderly is not at all surprising. Especially the most often cited case of her mixing up her father and husband is actually pretty standard. On the other hand, she’s had the same name her whole life and has consistently lived in one of the most well recorded towns in Europe, so we have all of her documents as seen [here](https://www.demogr.mpg.de/books/odense/6/09.htm) from a respected demographic research institute. It’s also just silly, the conspiracy is that she died at 65 and her 36 year old daughter took her name. 1. No one in their community was going to be tricked by a 29 year age gap and 2. I don’t know if you know any women, but I don’t know any 30 year olds who want to be 30 years older. It’s not like the Guinness book of world records existed in 1934 and her housing wasn’t guaranteed until 1965. You can’t just take the thing that disproves your theory and say “ignore that”. It just makes you look belligerent or facetious.
Dude you got so many basic facts wrong in this post, go back and read the Wikipedia article again, this time spend more than 30 secs skimming through it. You’re ages/dates are so far off it’s laughable.
I apologize, I’m not sure what went wrong with my math, the perils of multitasking, however the point stands. I spent most of my time trying to find the dishonesty you mentioned but I should have checked the numbers. With a birth date of 1875 and her daughter’s death in 1934, the theory is that she died at 59 and her 36 year old daughter took her place. I amend the statement to no one being tricked by a 23 year age gap and no one I know wanting to be twenty years older. The incorrect numbers don’t make the assertion less unfounded. Is there some massive dishonesty on her part that I missed?
I’m sure it all started out as a simple lie for Yvonne & her husband to evade taxes on her mother’s estate and continue to receive any gov’t benefits her mother may have had coming to her as she aged. Jeanne (Yvonne) moved in with her dead daughter’s husband (but really hers) after Yvonne (but really Jeanne) died, continuing to live with him for decades until his death, neither remarried (not suspicious). At that point Jeanne (who is really Yvonne) just kept on living and living and just wouldn’t die so things started to get weird, she was stuck in the lie from 40 years past and kept doubling down on the lie, directing relatives to burn personal documents & family photos, leading out all interviews with her beauty regime to explain away her youthful appearance, telling ridiculous tales like selling paint supplies to Van Gogh in 1880s Paris following in the footsteps of her dead Mom’s youth. Digging a deeper and deeper hole till the hole was so deep and she was so old I’m sure she she was believing half her own lies and the only option was to keep digging down till they dug her a grave. And that’s how a 97 year old French lying piece of shit named Yvonne Calment became Jeanne Calment the oldest living human ever, 122 years old, living almost 3 years longer than the next oldest person EVER, and proving that god is a lie (but not really).
Except we have the [death record](https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Acte-de-deces-dYvonne-Calment-Le-19-janvier-1934-enregistre-a-la-mairie-dArles-le_fig1_332655177) of Yvonne. I’ll leave the reasoning to this [excellent issue](https://academic.oup.com/biomedgerontology/article/74/Supplement_1/S13/5569844) of the journal of gerontology, as it goes line by line through the different claims including the identity swap. It’s literally the journal of people who study old age so I don’t know what better source I could give.
This is one of the laziest arguments I've ever seen. Besides, you can't use the bible to prove the bible. That's called circular reasoning.
Ok, I then will use all of humanity ever from Moses till now as evidence, not 1 documented case of a human living > 120 yrs, while billions lived < 120 yrs. Boom, creator god confirmed.
Moses didn't exist. Deuteronomy is a known fraud.
Irrelevant.
Show me Moses' death certificate. Or birth certificate. Or any proof that the man actually existed. Again, this is a lazy and half baked argument. I'm not convinced of your creator god in the slightest.
Why would you believe anything god says in the bible if god is the one who told the first lie, and then punished all involved? Genesis 2:16-17. The “fact” (according to the bible) is that Adam didn’t die that day.
The average human life expectancy isn't even close to 120 years (yet), and that's even after advances in medical science have more than doubled it (back when that passage was written, average human life expectancy was what... 50? Less?) So because our advancements have brought us to a point, *thousands of years later,* when a *handful* of people have gotten *close* to 120 (and an even smaller handful have been confirmed to live *past* 120), suddenly this is prophetic and proves something? How about when further advances increase the average human life expectancy *beyond* 120 years? How about when we figure out how to make ourselves *immortal?* There are several different ways that could be accomplished and scientists are pursuing all of them - it's only a matter of time before they succeed. So in the end, there will have been a relatively brief period when that passage was accurate - and that brief period will have occurred thousands of years after it was written, and shortly be surpassed so that it's incorrect again forevermore. And yet somehow, because you happen to be alive during the first inklings of that brief period, you're convinced it's prophetic? My friend, you couldn't have demonstrated a more textbook example of confirmation bias if I had provided you with a script to follow.
Maybe this is nitpicky but there's a big difference between average life expectancy and the maximum age that people live to. Until relatively recently, child mortality was through the roof (it still is in some areas). It used to be that in some areas up to 50% of children died before age 5. That really skews the average. So when we say that the average life expectancy was 40 or something like that in the middle ages, really most people who made it past early childhood had a good chance of making it into their 60s. Even back then there were a few people who lived to their 80s and such. People lived longer than you think.
It's fairly late and I am very tired. Can you please clarify what it is that you are presenting as evidence and what specifically is being proven with it? You just listed a few biblical quotes and a collection of Wikipedia articles.
This is an important question I want you to consider. If you were presented with a person who was verifiably 121 years old, would you stop believing in God?
I don’t believe in God, I know. And this is the creator god we are talking about here, little “g” not the big “G” God and by all accounts I’ve read he a little “b” too. So to answer your question directly, Yes. But I never believed in that little “b” to begin with.
Then I'm terribly confused as to what your intentions are. Carry on.
The obvious, humans existed before the book was written so the fact that it describes a thing about humans isn't impressive. If anything the list proves that the Bible is wrong because people don't live to 127. If everyone lived to 127 and then died, that would be in line with what it says, and still wouldn't be prophecy because it would have been true when the book was written too. The subtle, hey wait, I thought souls were immortal and some went to chill with God forever. Doesn't that conflict with God is annoyed by us so he kills us off at 127 like Leonardo DiCaprio breaking up with his girlfriends at their 25th birthday party?
I believe you're dismissing Jeanne Calment simply because she proves you wrong. Her age seems very well documented. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jeanne_Calment
Even if I grant that the author of the Bible got it right, couldn't it just have been a good guess? I mean, how do you show that God told the writer this? How do you know he didn't just kind of eyeball the ages of the oldest people he knew and say 'Hmmm, around 120," and then write that down?
As the author of Genesis would you document a “guess” in your people’s most revered religious texts that served as the foundation for your entire society & contained all you held to be holy & true?
To be clear, my question was: "How do you know God wrote this?" You must concede that our hypothetical guess is possible. There are many more candidate explanations. Please demonstrate how you know that divine revelation took place, or is the most likely explanation.
Hypothetically yes, a guess is possible but not probable. Moses’ death in Deut 34:7 gives context to Genesis 6:3 so detractors can’t wiggle out by claiming Gen 6:3 doesn’t really mean what it clearly means, Humans = 120 Max Age. My bets are on a creator then.
>Hypothetically yes, a guess is possible but not probable. It only needs to be possible, not probable. You have conceded there are multiple candidate explanations. Please show why yours is superior. Moses allegedly dying at 120 means nothing. That's within the limit you've proposed. It neither credits nor disproves your hypothesis. It is entirely unrelated. I can list more candidate explanations. YOU MUST demonstrate that it was divinely inspired, or your argument is nothing but wishful speculation. So, for the third time, completely unanswered and not even *addressed*: "How do you know God wrote this?"
why not? There's tons of other lies, what's one more?
If the Bible states that humans' "days will be a hundred and twenty years", why does nobody live that long? You'd expect all (or at least most) humans to live that long if the Bible were correct.
Why? Moses lived that long, dying at exactly 120 yrs in perfect health (Deut 34:7).
Genesis 6:3 says that humans will love 120 years. I've never met a single 120-year-old person. Therefore Genesis is wrong. >dying at exactly 120 yrs in perfect health The Israelites were never enslaved in Egypt, which strongly suggests the stories and characters in that part of the Bible are entirely fictional. Sorry, Moses. Beside which, what does it mean to die in perfect health? If you're dying, clearly you're not in perfect health.
But seriously thanks for proving my argument, you never met a 120 yr old. Boom, creator god confirmed.
How? The Bible clearly says that humans should expect to live for 120 years. Yet according to your own research, nobody does. Therefore the Bible is wrong.
We have ancient Mesopotamian tablets/manuscripts that are dated to centuries before Genesis and Deuteronomy which mention that the gods limited the human life span to 120 years (e.g. the narrative of Enlil and Namzitarra from 2nd millennium BC tablets). Our earliest extant manuscripts of the Genesis 6:3 and Deuteronomy 34:7 passages are from Greek translations dating to the 4th-5th century AD and were likely compiled during the last half of the 1st millennium BC. Ancient Mesopotamia also based their numbers on a sexagesimal system which means 120 was thought as basically just a nicely rounded number, as opposed to a specific or uniquely derived quantity. I don’t think anyone views this as evidence that the ancient Sumerian gods exist, so why should it be any different when the Bible says it. This is all historically/archaeologically consistent with the observation that the primeval history of Genesis and the Deuteronomy law codes developed from earlier narratives and law codes that had already existed within the cultural milieu of the Ancient Near East.
Bible claims that people lived back then for insane length. It contradicts all of science. Average life was back then around 30 years due to horrible medicine, constant wars, extreme lack of basic knowledge, bad survivability, and last but not least spiritual way of thinking.Thus we can easily dismiss those hundreds of years lives as highly unlikely.
Science consistently contradicts science, you don’t know what you don’t know.
How about concrete things instead of vague pseudophylosophical stuff?
How in any way is this solid evidence? It is a pretty easy observation for people thousands of years ago to realize people don't live for 122 years. Also, as people point out, you just blatantly skip over someone who has liced that long. She's on the verified list, so why should we accept your dismissal?
Not only that, but the Bible mentions the city of Nazareth. Nazareth is a real city! Checkmate atheists!
Exactly! Just like how we know Hogwarts is real because the books mention London.
Orrrr they were just reporting what they saw in ever day life but pretended it was a prophecy after making up a bunch of people that they claimed lived multiple centuries long
I’m sure that’s how they got 120 number, just looking around. You see a lot of ppl in their 100s about when you’re out just looking around?
I dont see many people in theirs 70s out looking around but if you are taking issue with there not being many people living to 120 wouldnt that same criticism apply to the bible? They dont state up to 120, it says 120, average age now is 70 something, ill say 80 for easy math, which is 67% of 120, so not even close to 120.
That’s dumb, you don’t really believe that’s what it’s saying, everyone lives to 120. Jesus.
You're right, it is dumb, but i think its less dumb then thinking a book that wrote a rough cap for human age limits means something not at all related to human ages exists.
I can't interpret any of these types of posts as anything other than troll / ragebait posts: "I have evidence of God because check out these Bible verses!" But OP, based on your responses to some of the comments, I dig your sense of humour / like your style! Some people just can't take a joke lol
I mean the Bible says all kinds of things. It also says there were people who lived to 800 years old, and we've seen no evidence of that, so why should we take it seriously? But more importantly, your own quote says 120 years and none of the people you mentioned lived that long, and the overwhelming majority of all humans in history haven't even gotten close to that. So if your God is saying that's how long people live, he seems to be wrong.
>My Spirit will not contend with humans forever What's the deal with Heaven then? >their days will be a hundred and twenty years. Not a single person on your list was 120. Surely if "their days will be a hundred and twenty years" means what you think it does then everyone should make it to exactly 120, no exceptions.
If there is a well documented case of someone living more than 120 years will you denounce your religion? Also, are your sure that they counted age the same way that we do? How age is counted is very much a cultural thing. https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2023/6/28/why-are-south-koreans-one-year-younger-today
>My Spirit will not contend with humans forever, for they are mortal; their days will be a hundred and twenty years. This implies *everyone* will live to be 120 years old. Yet, we don't. Nice try.
This is not evidence. This is a claim. You would need to show that people lived longer than 120 years before Moses. Methuselah supposedly live for 969 years. That is something that should have been noted by people who lived at the time. If Methuselah did not in fact live to be 969, then the Genesis narrative is questionable and your claim is questionable. You would need to prove that it was not simply an observation and an explanation in Genesis. Any rational observer they would likely conclude that it would be natural for a myth to grow from an observation that people don't live longer than a certain age. Many of the other narratives in Genesis, Exodus, etc. are demonstrably false. Archeology can prove that dates, facts, locations, and events are wrong in the Torah. If so many claims can be wrong, why would this be trusted when it has no supporting evidence?
Giving the Bible undue credit for the sake of this argument: Humans at large do not live for that long, so the first verse you quoted would already be wrong. Is that your 'solid evidence for a creator god'?
First off the bible is the claim, it is not evidence. You can't use the claim to prove it self. Why? Because anyone alive then knew nobody lived past 120 years so it would be obvious to write it as a law of god. Secondly, in the bible there are hundreds of people that live longer. But you would have to have actually read your bible to know that.
Homo Sapiens have been on Earth for at least 300,000 years. It stands to reason that since we've had virtually the same genotype for such a long time, the anonymous authors of the writings you are referring to could have easily based their number off of the oldest living person they had personally ever known/heard of.