Holy shit my headcanon now is that the river person is Toby and temmie in a trenchcoat
Think about it, who else could know so many details about the game besides the creators themselves?
Have you heard of Oblivion theory? Its kind of a chara knight thing?
Overall premise is basically: Why would the Knight make fountains only once a day, when they could simply stab the ground 50 times?
It’s possible that determination is an actual resource that is consumed when creating dark fountains, making it unlikely that some could create multiple back to back.
That’s my only reasoning for why the knight doesn’t just create the roaring in a single day.
Yes but the game makes no sense if they don't? You recognise the need for an ACTUAL reason?
Imagine if Sans' reason for dodging wasn't some cool "Knowledge of the rules" stuff but was just because "Well we needed a tough boss, no explanation"?
This is potentially the dumbest argument ever.
In Ch2 when you leave the cemetery near the church after talking to him you can see him mumbling: "...were you proud of me, father...? And... is it right for this hammer to..."
Which could mean that he uses the hammer to open dark worlds. Wouldn't be the same as Ch2's knight though since they used a blade, but having multiple knights is also definitely possible.
I hate people saying that as if it's 100% proven that Kris could not be the knight. None of the "evidence" put forward is grounds for dismissal of Kris. Yall need to get a grip lmao
Unless Toby manages to explain how Kris created the computer lab fountain which I remind you Kris was with us the whole time in which Noelle and berdly were preparing to study before the fountain was cast, It is more plausible and sensible to say that if Kris couldn't physically be present to make the cyber world, Kris' chances of being the knight are very low. To say the evidence and timeline of events presented on chapter 2 are not proofs of the claim is absurd and I think you should get a grip.
We don't know exactly when it was made, but we know when it couldn't have been made. Which is before Noelle and Berdley entered the library. We saw at the end of chapter 2 that opening a fountain is instantaneous, so there was no way for them to notice the dark world leaking out and not question it. But yet, when they wake up, they're sitting by their desks with their books open.
This, plus the text about being able to fit a person inside the closet in the room, indicates that the knight exited the closet while Berdley and Noelle were studying and activated the fountain.
We follow Kris' perspective from when Noelle and Berdley leaves the school for the library to when Kris enters the library. Hence it's impossible for Kris to have activated the fountain, as he couldn't have done it before Noelle and Berdley entered the library, and we know what Kris was doing while Noelle and Berdley were at the library.
Its also very possible that Noelle and Birdley saw the dark world and thought the light was off… like kris and susie did in chapter 1. And in chapter 1 Kris and Susie enter through the closet and exit through a classroom, so noelle and birdleys position is irrelevent. Plus their books are unopened on a table with no chairs nearby, so were noelle and birdley sitting on the floor? It looks alot more like they just walked in and fell into the dark world. Also the end of chapter 2 shows that when a dark world is created the room is slowly filled with smoke, which would mean Noelle and Birdley sat on the floor while the room filled with black smoke.
we don't know, but we have the following ideas that may give us an implication of the timeline of events:
1.- Noelle and Berdly were already at the table, and preparing for study with their books on the table. Implying they were already studying in the computer lab before the fountain existed.
2.- The idea that no-one discovered the fountain if it existed in essentially a public space all morning and noon is absurd and not a thing Toby would make a mistake of.
When Kris and Susie awakened from the dark world, they woke up in an unused classroom surrounded by toys and games, as if they were playing something. They didn't go into the room, then start playing games. Noelle and Berdly were easily convinced that it was all a dream because Kris and Susie played it off. Who's to say Noelle and Berdly didn't have a similar moment to how Kris and Susie originally went into the dark world, you know, by jumping into it. Even Susie wasn't totally certain the card kingdom wasn't a dream when they woke up. Also "no one entering a room all day" is far from the most absurd thing you'd need to assume for the game to have a cohesive story.
nah, this is a game made by Toby Fox, the narrative in Undertale is air-tight and has no known plot holes or narrative inconsistencies. I expect the same here since Toby takes his time on the game very seriously.
>the narrative in Undertale is air-tight and has no known plot holes or narrative inconsistencies.
"Timelines jumping left and right, stopping and starting"
The save/load system only moves the timeline back. There's no way for timelines to "jump right", since that implies moving forward in time. Sans's statement here is a plot hole or at least conveyed poorly.
The game's timeline is also off. The technology and architecture on the surface indicates it takes place in the modern day. However, it turns out Chara was the one who fell in the 2010s, not Frisk, which makes the technology a pretty big plot hole (the intro was originally mean to be Frisk after all, but Temmie giving the kid one stripe instead of two caused Toby to change it and make Chara).
Humans are said not to be able to express themselves through magic, yet seven human magicians sealed the barrier (you can come up with some canon compliant explanations, sure, but I doubt Toby actually thought this through).
Human souls are supposed to persist for a long time after death, but Frisk's soul shatters the moment you die (again, while one can explain this as a side effect of Loading a save, I still doubt Toby though of this).
How do we know the fountain was made while they were in the room. Im more likely to walk into a dark room than stay inside a room where a beam of light was created and black smoke was covering the room
look at where Dess and Berdly ended up when they woke up, their books are also placed on the table so they had at the bare minimum put the books in the table, and sit down. In chapter 1 since they were travelling from a dark world to another dark world, both susie and Kris fell down to the other room and as such they were splatted to the floor when they woke up.
We have a sample size of 2 dark fountains. We dont know how they spit people out. We can only assume. And assuming how DF work could be very misleading
Tbh I think that they made it between ch.1 and 2 and hid it from us by eating the pie. The circumstantial evidence to say it has to have been created that same day is too flimsy of an argument to be definitive but that’s just what I think.
Yeah I figured the pie thing was definitely a red herring, something to either throw us off or because Kris just felt like eating a pie after a strenuous night time shamble to the library
flimsy? You know what is flimsy? the idea that no-one but Berdly and Noelle fell into a fountain situated in what is essentially in a public space, if it's the case.
Besides, I remember Noelle saying they were in the computer lab before things became fuzzy, implying they were already sitting at the table in the lab so that also implies the fountain was still not created when they arrived.
Unless you want to go out of the way and say that Toby Fox just forgot how outrageous is the idea that nobody in the town discovered the cyber world during most of the day, i think the theory that the sus vibes of Kris are a red herring for the identity of the Knight is much more reasonable than just assume that Kris somehow is doing all this just like what everyone assumed Kris was about to do in Chapter 1.
we don't know how the save file system works in Deltarune as it's not run by Determination (and it's white and not the original star walker.) It could be the case the Knight is able to access save files too and interfere into whatever link the Player has with Kris.
It wouldn't make sense to be Gaster, Gaster is most likely the "mysterious man" Jevil talked to, who wasn't the Knight because he came after Jevil was locked up, also we know nothing about him so he could just be a normal guy.
I don’t believe in any of these candidates. Kris doesn’t try to stop you when you tell Undyne about Darkworlds and actually tries to help by explaining in detail. I think Father Alvin’s story is gonna go somewhere else about trying to continue Gerson’s legacy or something like that. We don’t know anything about Mayor Holiday yet. Gaster from what we can assume based on the fact that he helps us is opposed to the Knight. Dess is stuck in some kind of pocket dimension and is probably still stuck there. Papyrus would never consider destroying the world a good idea even if had some kind of pro. His moras wouldn’t let me do that. Chara might just be Kris, and we have no idea if they even exist in this world because Kris is kind of an amalgam of them and Frisk. Asgore would never do it. He can’t even pay his bills because he just gives away flowers. Toby would just be stupid.
To be fair, it could be literally anyone, even someone we haven’t met yet. We know that it doesn’t have to be a human, so this is the perfect opportunity for Toby to try something outside of the “powerful chosen one” trope.
Guys, guys, guys...the Knight represents the loss you feel when your best and practically only friend (Asriel) goes away, leaving you currently friendless and depressed. The writing is all there, and was available from Chapter 1.
Look at this analysis someone made.
https://preview.redd.it/gyhzeywrtusc1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1945736e3af204739414955b51e38b5814a58367
I'm The Original Dripwalker. 🤫🧏♂️
And yes I'm The knight.
https://preview.redd.it/yth23t360wsc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d42a599aa81e9be515ad64d9ef3fefd0484d25bd
It's important to note that any lightener can make a dark fountain, the fact that Kris can doesn't automatically make him the Knight.
Also, Gaster is most likely the "mysterious man" Jevil talked to, which means he can't be the Knight because he came after Jevil got locked up.
however logical or in character it might be, papyrus being the knight would still be utterly insane for the average player. considering that his existence in deltarune (or lack thereof) through sans's dialogue is so far pretty much only treated as a joke for people who've played undertale, nobody would see him suddenly being promoted to main antagonist coming.
you don't even get to date him in deltarune.
that's why he's in "absurd" but "there were clues." it wouldn't be entirely a change in direction for anyone's characterisations, but certainly nobody would expect it. ESPECIALLY people who haven't played undertale, for whom the game's plot has so far been entirely comprehensible. the game would need to lay a LOT more groundwork *inside deltarune* before anyone should take the papyrus knight theory seriously.
>however logical or in character it might be, papyrus being the knight would still be utterly insane for the average player. considering that his existence in deltarune (or lack thereof) through sans's dialogue is so far pretty much only treated as a joke for people who've played undertale, nobody would see him suddenly being promoted to main antagonist coming.
Deltarune is intended for people who have played Undertale though. It's not that insane if he's serious. I don't think it's insane. Sans' in DR talks about everything as a joke tbh.
even for people who *have* played undertale, his characterisation as goofy and innocent is still what most see him as. he's got more stuff going on, but he's still memorable for being the comic relief partner to sans. lots of the things that show him differently are from relatively hidden content, like neutral routes or telephone dialogue, and most players won't see that.
the game's not going to expect you to go into deep analysis of characters in another game to understand why a plot point works. if, with no other *pretty obvious* evidence to build up the reveal, papyrus is revealed to be the knight, it would be absurd to 99% of players.
Remember [this.](https://www.tumblr.com/rainesntears/690618904074125312/papyrus-and-selective-personalities-every-example) Though you're right some parts of this are hard to find, but still. Characters can be different.
>if, with no other *pretty obvious* evidence to build up the reveal, papyrus is revealed to be the knight, it would be absurd to 99% of players.
Well what if there's going to be pretty obvious evidence
well duh if there's more evidence it would change the situation. chapters 3 and 4 could crank up the foreshadowing for literally ANY character to be the knight, that's not specific to papyrus. in terms of discussion for right now, with only 2 chapters released, there is simply not enough evidence that papyrus even *exists* in deltarune, let alone is the knight.
The hell do you mean there's not enough evidence? So what about sans mentioning his brother and the variable there being "paptalk"? Or how Gaster comments on you calling yourself or the Vessel Papyrus? He's definitely in Deltarune, I don't think he's the Knight, but it's definitely a good theory.
i was mostly joking there, because there *is* debate (or at least partial speculation) over if we'll ever even see papyrus in the game. considering that there's plenty of characters we HAVE seen and can formulate actual suspicions over, making the big bad someone who most would assume exists as only a reference would be surprising. hence, it goes on the "most surprising" end of the grid.
The evidence thing is the other column and I never said he should be moved from expected, I said he should be in absurd because, right now, to the average player, Alvin knight is this: https://youtu.be/p1_zJGvh4bA?si=cH42pADZFqShoxwx
Well yes, That's why I said right now lol. Besides you could say the same for every single other candidate I mean for all we know one of the characters from "there were clues" and "real surprise" will get many more clues and irrefutable evidence or we will get an in-depth into mayor holiday's character instead.
For the record I'm not against using "they could gain more importance later" to refute arguments about how the aren't important enough hell I have used it myself. But it doesn't really work when comparing knight candidates because it applies to all of them so we have to use what little we have from the first two chapters. If Alvin does gain more importance I will change my mind but rn I maintain that he should be in expected absurd
there was a dog in the computer lab during chapter 1 definitely in the 'there were clue(s)' category
We know Lesser dog extends his neck when excited, that would explain the closet text in the librarby, lesser dog is the knight confirmed??
This was just a reference to Toby making chapter 2.
chapter 2 was mainly the dark world, and toby made the dark world
so Toby is the Knight, case closed.
tf you mean toby isnt the knight? he’s clearly the one making all the dark fountains
i think temmie is the one drawing them though...
that means temmie is the knight
They're both the knight
The knight is both of them standing on top of eachother in a trenchcoat
The knight is river person
Holy shit my headcanon now is that the river person is Toby and temmie in a trenchcoat Think about it, who else could know so many details about the game besides the creators themselves?
winggastertheroyalscientist
Maybe the real knight is the friends we made along the way
I’m imagining the annoying dog and a temmie inside a knight armor pretending to be one person now
I made a joke theory about Temmie being the knight that I put too much thought into and accidentally started semi-unironically believing.
Tfym? He’s too busy playing the maracas to make more dark fountains
So THAT'S why chapter 3 didn't come out yet
Chara doesn’t make sense
Have you heard of Oblivion theory? Its kind of a chara knight thing? Overall premise is basically: Why would the Knight make fountains only once a day, when they could simply stab the ground 50 times?
Well imagine stabbing the ground 50 times. That'd just look silly, so the knight probably just doesn't want to risk looking ridiculous
Isn't that a vessel knight theory
Its kinda both? Like the vessel is this worlds iteration of chara?
It’s possible that determination is an actual resource that is consumed when creating dark fountains, making it unlikely that some could create multiple back to back. That’s my only reasoning for why the knight doesn’t just create the roaring in a single day.
Because the game would be shit if they did.
Yes but the game makes no sense if they don't? You recognise the need for an ACTUAL reason? Imagine if Sans' reason for dodging wasn't some cool "Knowledge of the rules" stuff but was just because "Well we needed a tough boss, no explanation"? This is potentially the dumbest argument ever.
Why not? We don't know where chara or frisk are (or if they even exist here).
Exactly. Neither has even been mentioned. By that logic scringlybob could be the knight; he isn’t in in the game, so he might be important
But scringlybob wasn't in undertale. And they especially weren't an important character.
I don't expect Father Alvin to be the Knight... because after King, Queen, and Knight, we're definitely going to be seeing a Bishop.
Asgore being the knight would be so cool I swear
It’s the vessel bro bro
Where's the "more than one knight" option?
Kris and Alvin should swap place, and so should Papyrus and Mayor Holiday. Gaster should also be in expected/makes sense
what about alvin makes sense for the Knight? im not arguing or anything I just don't know a lot about him lol I thought he was just some random NPC
In Ch2 when you leave the cemetery near the church after talking to him you can see him mumbling: "...were you proud of me, father...? And... is it right for this hammer to..." Which could mean that he uses the hammer to open dark worlds. Wouldn't be the same as Ch2's knight though since they used a blade, but having multiple knights is also definitely possible.
Altho Kris was the first instinctual character to sus there is simply no effin way they could made the second fountain. Kris is a red herring
I hate people saying that as if it's 100% proven that Kris could not be the knight. None of the "evidence" put forward is grounds for dismissal of Kris. Yall need to get a grip lmao
Unless Toby manages to explain how Kris created the computer lab fountain which I remind you Kris was with us the whole time in which Noelle and berdly were preparing to study before the fountain was cast, It is more plausible and sensible to say that if Kris couldn't physically be present to make the cyber world, Kris' chances of being the knight are very low. To say the evidence and timeline of events presented on chapter 2 are not proofs of the claim is absurd and I think you should get a grip.
The entire argument centers around people assuming they know exactly when the fountain was made, which we don't know.
We don't know exactly when it was made, but we know when it couldn't have been made. Which is before Noelle and Berdley entered the library. We saw at the end of chapter 2 that opening a fountain is instantaneous, so there was no way for them to notice the dark world leaking out and not question it. But yet, when they wake up, they're sitting by their desks with their books open. This, plus the text about being able to fit a person inside the closet in the room, indicates that the knight exited the closet while Berdley and Noelle were studying and activated the fountain. We follow Kris' perspective from when Noelle and Berdley leaves the school for the library to when Kris enters the library. Hence it's impossible for Kris to have activated the fountain, as he couldn't have done it before Noelle and Berdley entered the library, and we know what Kris was doing while Noelle and Berdley were at the library.
Its also very possible that Noelle and Birdley saw the dark world and thought the light was off… like kris and susie did in chapter 1. And in chapter 1 Kris and Susie enter through the closet and exit through a classroom, so noelle and birdleys position is irrelevent. Plus their books are unopened on a table with no chairs nearby, so were noelle and birdley sitting on the floor? It looks alot more like they just walked in and fell into the dark world. Also the end of chapter 2 shows that when a dark world is created the room is slowly filled with smoke, which would mean Noelle and Birdley sat on the floor while the room filled with black smoke.
we don't know, but we have the following ideas that may give us an implication of the timeline of events: 1.- Noelle and Berdly were already at the table, and preparing for study with their books on the table. Implying they were already studying in the computer lab before the fountain existed. 2.- The idea that no-one discovered the fountain if it existed in essentially a public space all morning and noon is absurd and not a thing Toby would make a mistake of.
When Kris and Susie awakened from the dark world, they woke up in an unused classroom surrounded by toys and games, as if they were playing something. They didn't go into the room, then start playing games. Noelle and Berdly were easily convinced that it was all a dream because Kris and Susie played it off. Who's to say Noelle and Berdly didn't have a similar moment to how Kris and Susie originally went into the dark world, you know, by jumping into it. Even Susie wasn't totally certain the card kingdom wasn't a dream when they woke up. Also "no one entering a room all day" is far from the most absurd thing you'd need to assume for the game to have a cohesive story.
nah, this is a game made by Toby Fox, the narrative in Undertale is air-tight and has no known plot holes or narrative inconsistencies. I expect the same here since Toby takes his time on the game very seriously.
>the narrative in Undertale is air-tight and has no known plot holes or narrative inconsistencies. "Timelines jumping left and right, stopping and starting" The save/load system only moves the timeline back. There's no way for timelines to "jump right", since that implies moving forward in time. Sans's statement here is a plot hole or at least conveyed poorly. The game's timeline is also off. The technology and architecture on the surface indicates it takes place in the modern day. However, it turns out Chara was the one who fell in the 2010s, not Frisk, which makes the technology a pretty big plot hole (the intro was originally mean to be Frisk after all, but Temmie giving the kid one stripe instead of two caused Toby to change it and make Chara). Humans are said not to be able to express themselves through magic, yet seven human magicians sealed the barrier (you can come up with some canon compliant explanations, sure, but I doubt Toby actually thought this through). Human souls are supposed to persist for a long time after death, but Frisk's soul shatters the moment you die (again, while one can explain this as a side effect of Loading a save, I still doubt Toby though of this).
How do we know the fountain was made while they were in the room. Im more likely to walk into a dark room than stay inside a room where a beam of light was created and black smoke was covering the room
look at where Dess and Berdly ended up when they woke up, their books are also placed on the table so they had at the bare minimum put the books in the table, and sit down. In chapter 1 since they were travelling from a dark world to another dark world, both susie and Kris fell down to the other room and as such they were splatted to the floor when they woke up.
We have a sample size of 2 dark fountains. We dont know how they spit people out. We can only assume. And assuming how DF work could be very misleading
Tbh I think that they made it between ch.1 and 2 and hid it from us by eating the pie. The circumstantial evidence to say it has to have been created that same day is too flimsy of an argument to be definitive but that’s just what I think.
Yeah I figured the pie thing was definitely a red herring, something to either throw us off or because Kris just felt like eating a pie after a strenuous night time shamble to the library
flimsy? You know what is flimsy? the idea that no-one but Berdly and Noelle fell into a fountain situated in what is essentially in a public space, if it's the case. Besides, I remember Noelle saying they were in the computer lab before things became fuzzy, implying they were already sitting at the table in the lab so that also implies the fountain was still not created when they arrived. Unless you want to go out of the way and say that Toby Fox just forgot how outrageous is the idea that nobody in the town discovered the cyber world during most of the day, i think the theory that the sus vibes of Kris are a red herring for the identity of the Knight is much more reasonable than just assume that Kris somehow is doing all this just like what everyone assumed Kris was about to do in Chapter 1.
Explain why kris has a save file within that dark fountain then?
we don't know how the save file system works in Deltarune as it's not run by Determination (and it's white and not the original star walker.) It could be the case the Knight is able to access save files too and interfere into whatever link the Player has with Kris.
Ok, but I was asking about Alvin, not Kris.
Alvin has a lot of good counter-evidence.
It wouldn't make sense to be Gaster, Gaster is most likely the "mysterious man" Jevil talked to, who wasn't the Knight because he came after Jevil was locked up, also we know nothing about him so he could just be a normal guy.
Bro. When ch. 2 fountain was opened Kris and Susie was in castletown dark world
I would change the priest whose name I forgot and mayor holiday.
That checks out, 10/10
I don’t believe in any of these candidates. Kris doesn’t try to stop you when you tell Undyne about Darkworlds and actually tries to help by explaining in detail. I think Father Alvin’s story is gonna go somewhere else about trying to continue Gerson’s legacy or something like that. We don’t know anything about Mayor Holiday yet. Gaster from what we can assume based on the fact that he helps us is opposed to the Knight. Dess is stuck in some kind of pocket dimension and is probably still stuck there. Papyrus would never consider destroying the world a good idea even if had some kind of pro. His moras wouldn’t let me do that. Chara might just be Kris, and we have no idea if they even exist in this world because Kris is kind of an amalgam of them and Frisk. Asgore would never do it. He can’t even pay his bills because he just gives away flowers. Toby would just be stupid.
To be fair, it could be literally anyone, even someone we haven’t met yet. We know that it doesn’t have to be a human, so this is the perfect opportunity for Toby to try something outside of the “powerful chosen one” trope.
What clues were there for Papyrus ? He literally didn't appear yet.
Guys, guys, guys...the Knight represents the loss you feel when your best and practically only friend (Asriel) goes away, leaving you currently friendless and depressed. The writing is all there, and was available from Chapter 1.
The real twist would be Jerry as the Knight.
I think it may be the “make your character” thing at the start
I'm a big fan of the "papyrus knight" theory, But I would love to see it done in a way where Paps doesn't even know that they're the bad guy.
Dess has more evidence than the Mayor. Kris also should be moved to the right. Dess is definitely a better candidate than Gaster.
Why would Mayor Holiday be absurd? I think it makes more sense than Kris
Look at this analysis someone made. https://preview.redd.it/gyhzeywrtusc1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=1945736e3af204739414955b51e38b5814a58367
those are good points
https://preview.redd.it/lk0xp18ttusc1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a9ec8a59d45204d4a9b3d32b36efca4948ea1065
wait hold on toby being the knight actually makes sense, though who seen in the computer room last chapter, HMMMMMMMMM
In chapter one it said a dog was working in the computer lab and you could come in tomorrow or whatever so there is some clues
I'm The Original Dripwalker. 🤫🧏♂️ And yes I'm The knight. https://preview.redd.it/yth23t360wsc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d42a599aa81e9be515ad64d9ef3fefd0484d25bd
Kris, Alvin, and Papyrus are the 3 lightner candidates I have literal money on
It's important to note that any lightener can make a dark fountain, the fact that Kris can doesn't automatically make him the Knight. Also, Gaster is most likely the "mysterious man" Jevil talked to, which means he can't be the Knight because he came after Jevil got locked up.
Makes more sense for the knight to be frisk and not chara,making a land of dreams through determination is more of a frisk thing
How is Papyrus absurd? It makes a lot of sense.
even though there's *some* evidence, it would still be really out of pocket for the funny haha skeleton from undertale to be the big bad
[I'll just link this. ](https://www.tumblr.com/frozen-spaghetti/741010116459036672/papyrus-heaven-theory-fixing-papyrus-knight)
however logical or in character it might be, papyrus being the knight would still be utterly insane for the average player. considering that his existence in deltarune (or lack thereof) through sans's dialogue is so far pretty much only treated as a joke for people who've played undertale, nobody would see him suddenly being promoted to main antagonist coming. you don't even get to date him in deltarune. that's why he's in "absurd" but "there were clues." it wouldn't be entirely a change in direction for anyone's characterisations, but certainly nobody would expect it. ESPECIALLY people who haven't played undertale, for whom the game's plot has so far been entirely comprehensible. the game would need to lay a LOT more groundwork *inside deltarune* before anyone should take the papyrus knight theory seriously.
>however logical or in character it might be, papyrus being the knight would still be utterly insane for the average player. considering that his existence in deltarune (or lack thereof) through sans's dialogue is so far pretty much only treated as a joke for people who've played undertale, nobody would see him suddenly being promoted to main antagonist coming. Deltarune is intended for people who have played Undertale though. It's not that insane if he's serious. I don't think it's insane. Sans' in DR talks about everything as a joke tbh.
even for people who *have* played undertale, his characterisation as goofy and innocent is still what most see him as. he's got more stuff going on, but he's still memorable for being the comic relief partner to sans. lots of the things that show him differently are from relatively hidden content, like neutral routes or telephone dialogue, and most players won't see that. the game's not going to expect you to go into deep analysis of characters in another game to understand why a plot point works. if, with no other *pretty obvious* evidence to build up the reveal, papyrus is revealed to be the knight, it would be absurd to 99% of players.
Remember [this.](https://www.tumblr.com/rainesntears/690618904074125312/papyrus-and-selective-personalities-every-example) Though you're right some parts of this are hard to find, but still. Characters can be different. >if, with no other *pretty obvious* evidence to build up the reveal, papyrus is revealed to be the knight, it would be absurd to 99% of players. Well what if there's going to be pretty obvious evidence
well duh if there's more evidence it would change the situation. chapters 3 and 4 could crank up the foreshadowing for literally ANY character to be the knight, that's not specific to papyrus. in terms of discussion for right now, with only 2 chapters released, there is simply not enough evidence that papyrus even *exists* in deltarune, let alone is the knight.
The hell do you mean there's not enough evidence? So what about sans mentioning his brother and the variable there being "paptalk"? Or how Gaster comments on you calling yourself or the Vessel Papyrus? He's definitely in Deltarune, I don't think he's the Knight, but it's definitely a good theory.
i was mostly joking there, because there *is* debate (or at least partial speculation) over if we'll ever even see papyrus in the game. considering that there's plenty of characters we HAVE seen and can formulate actual suspicions over, making the big bad someone who most would assume exists as only a reference would be surprising. hence, it goes on the "most surprising" end of the grid.
Mostly agee with this, but i would move everybody on the top row to the left, and in turn make kris loop to absurd
Alvin should be in absurd lmao
Alvin has plenty of evidence.
The evidence thing is the other column and I never said he should be moved from expected, I said he should be in absurd because, right now, to the average player, Alvin knight is this: https://youtu.be/p1_zJGvh4bA?si=cH42pADZFqShoxwx
I mean, we are only 2 chapters in. For all we know, the 3rd or 4th chapter will give us a more in-depth look at his character.
Well yes, That's why I said right now lol. Besides you could say the same for every single other candidate I mean for all we know one of the characters from "there were clues" and "real surprise" will get many more clues and irrefutable evidence or we will get an in-depth into mayor holiday's character instead. For the record I'm not against using "they could gain more importance later" to refute arguments about how the aren't important enough hell I have used it myself. But it doesn't really work when comparing knight candidates because it applies to all of them so we have to use what little we have from the first two chapters. If Alvin does gain more importance I will change my mind but rn I maintain that he should be in expected absurd