Great write up! Definitely with you in the time between rounds, especially the ones where there’s literally nothing to do because you don’t have enough scrap to upgrade, your ammo is full, etc. I’m just standing there staring at my teammates for 15-20 seconds.
I got my 50 wave clear on legend and will never do it again without reward changes. There’s just no point to it, which is a very weird design choice. It’s like running the first encounter of a raid on repeat because you can get loot from the whole raid that way.
I don’t get what they implemented it this way.
>"I got my 50 wave clear on legend and will never do it again without reward changes. There’s just no point to it, which is a very weird design choice. It’s like running the first encounter of a raid on repeat because you can get loot from the whole raid that way."
I feel like its even worse then that. It would be like having a Raid/Dungeon WITHOUT checkpoints, where you can get all the loot off the first encounter... Well, why would people spend an hour to try and complete it, if you can just refresh spam the first encounter that happens to be the easiest?
Even with a reward refresh... Lets say they gave a GUARANTEED "Shiny" from wave 50. That wont solve the problem IMO. People will still just spam 1-10 because its way less time commitment, stress, effort, etc.
But yeah, I think it could be a really special mode, just needs a bit of fine-tuning.
Guranteed shiny would defiantly solve it. Shiny having double perks makes them significantly more likely to be god rolls. I’m not in favor of this I think it’s too much to do that but it would 100% stop 10 wave farms
Was literally just thinking that lol. Kali farming is even more brain-dead and repetitive than legend 10 wave farming while somehow being way faster. The only tradeoff is that armour is in the loot pool.
I fear the buying rounds are made to reset cooldowns, and also buffs. for example, the buying rounds are ~just~ long enough to kill Banner, as are the hallways to all the (10s) boss rooms
It's unlikely that they'll make it so you can pause between every single wave - I think it's intended to be part of the difficulty that you can't just wait for cooldowns (especially your super...) between waves if youre trying to get your first legend 50.
However, you can use the spark room and boss rooms as pause points if you really need.
Fair enough. You are right. Im so used to people just hopping through portals and never getting a second to break.
I do agree you shouldnt be able to pause to abuse it. Would be pretty easy to disable super regen during a "pause" or even inbetween rounds though.
I think they could add a Legend, Match made 10 round version (like they have normal now) and would let those who wanna just do 1-10 to just do that. Would eliminate people leaving after round 10 in a 1-50 mode.
The spark wave completely breaks the flow of the mission. I think it must've been put in there just to teach people the crucible mechanic or something. Also, the hallway before the boss fight? What's up with that? Just spawn me at the flag.
>I agree, especially with the spark wave. Sooooo boring
Yeah I am not quite sure the "point" of that wave... a small break? Maybe that is your time to go pee or grab a coffee refill without a timer? IDK...
Bungie said on their intial reveal stream that the spark section was supposed to be akin to an action movie scene. I get what they were trying to do but it just makes for an unnecessary break. Though if they made it so that we go to the pyramid area only 1 every 10 waves and have the spark running segment just before the boss fight, I'd be cool with that.
My only issue is the Rift portal being a waste of time, and the downtime for buying upgrades. Just let us buy upgrades whenever we want to and get rid of the rift portal sections.
I think this mode really highlights the problems with boss tormentors. The damage reduction they get from anything that isn’t precision damage to their crit spot is way too high. It pretty much invalidates any explosive based weaponry, something that is very much required to deal with the swarm of enemies. It also severely dampens the effect of our abilities and supers. The fact that the only crit spot is on his chest, once you break the shoulders, is also a huge pain. Because he moves around so much and at high speeds. It’s incredibly difficult to hit the crit spot. Almost all of our big burst DPS stuff is explosive based. Other things just aren’t effective against a tormentor because of the damage they deal and the knock back plus suppression effect.
You make some interesting points. Everyone can agree with 2 I think, but it would not take much to make the 50 legend worthwhile I think.
3, personally I find randomness a key reason why onslaught is so engaging. Much less dull than spawn killing in a GM for example! Please keep the current system!
As for 1, well, I like that you can lose time in there, but yes 50 is a LONG time commitment. Nonetheless I think the spark run is necessary to keep players engaged weirdly, a bit of a calm period. While I think the time commitment is a minor issue, I feel these suggestions probably cause more issues than they solve.
Hope to see you out there!
>3, personally I find randomness a key reason why onslaught is so engaging. Much less dull than spawn killing in a GM for example! Please keep the current system!
I agree, I want randomness and "not knowing" I think you may not be understanding what I am saying. I am not suggesting ANYTHING change other than 1) Tormentors and Demolitionists no longer spawn literally ontop of the ADU... Have them spawn in the normal locations that all other mobs spawn. and 2) Basically whichever LOCATION you spawn in on, that is the location you would be for waves 1-9 and then circle back around waves 40-49.
Its literally the same experience you have now with randomness... But allows a small level of "pattern" to be planned for or strategized for. Its a bit silly you can fight waves 30-39 in one location, and then be BACK at that same location waves 40-49. Id rather it basically rotate every single time.
Ahh I see, I misunderstood. Seeing that tormentor land right on the ADU does make my heart sink lol. But who am I to deny them that superhero landing accompanied by awesome musical motif??
1 is a flimsy point overall.
People keep saying they lost an hour or whatever. You're getting less rewards than a full run, but you're still getting rewards.
You get squat for a failed GM. Onslaught is doling rewards all along the way.
I agree. I like being forced to shift my focus and make a hard decision between giving the ads more ground or let the tormentors or demolishionists absolutely man handle the adu. It can definitely end a run like he's saying, but saying that it's a definite loss is a little overboard. It's legend, it's supposed to be challenging. May I offer a small "git gud"? Can I get an amen?
The time thing is my biggest pain point.
Not only does it make it more of a risk doing the activity with randoms just to waste 30+ mins on a failed run, but also if someone is trying to be as efficient as possible they would only play Midtown since to my knowledge it has the fastest completion potential due to the map not being as big as the others.
As a matter of fact that's a pain point I have with the game in general now. It seems like people define stuff as too easy if it can be finished in 30 mins or less and stuff that takes longer is "challenging."
As someone who likes racing games, this is the equivalent of thinking players who play endurance races for fun are more skilled than everyone else. They're not, they just have more time than others to play the game.
Yeah but that makes it too easy. I don’t know, I’m not one of those “destiny should be impossible” guys but the challenge is in the fact that you gotta be on the entire time.
To me, this is what legend should be for. There is no restart on legend, but then the rewards should be worth it. Guarantee a shiny gun at the end of the 50 Legend run, then the risk has a definable reward.
Some great points.
> Potential to "Restart" after a Boss Kill Wave, Rather than Starting Over. Say you wipe at Wave 39. Rather than starting fresh, it wipes you back to the last "Checkpoint" of Wave 30? Just an idea. Would make "trying for Wave 50" Not such a HUGE time commitment... Maybe you just get one of these per run, but something that reduces the prospect of committing another ~75minutes to attempt 50 Waves again.
I'm thinking some kind of hail mary. Titanfall 2's wave defense had a VERY expensive health bump you could keep in your back pocket. If things got hairy you could activate it and raise the harvester from 1% to 100% health with the press of a button.
If they repurposed Rift into a bonus objective, well... not all objectives are equal. Harder ones should give better rewards than a crate of heavy.
Maybe easy stuff like "capture Pyramid zone" could reward heavy, while more involved and dangerous ones like Rift could give the Rift runner a stackable one-time-use life support injection. Maybe allow them a "hold E" near the ADU, or maybe their scrap balls now heal 200% more for the next 20 waves or something.
> Getting that Tormentor Round 19 is nothing.... versus in Round 49, can literally just break a run.
I think even just a warning on the previous wave could do wonders. There's some kind of personal pyramid ship that appears directly above the ADU when they spawn in. All it would take is putting that ship in the air 1 wave before, along with some red HUD text "A TORMENTOR APPROACHES" or something.
The elites aren't THAT hard. My no-mic rando teams can burn them down in seconds so long as we have ammo and supers. But that relies on us not being killed instantly because one spawned right on top of us on wave 31+, severely upping the stakes for the surviving team.
And yeah, bypassing defenses should be out of the question. Let's just give the ADU some sort of anti-transmat IFF, yeah?
This is a good post for sure. I definitely feel you on the down time. Especially when you only farm to wave 10 you barely need any defenses that early so the down time is even more pointless. While Onslaught is now probably my favorite PvE mode now aside from Raids and Dungeons, I wish we had a separate version where there is no teleporting to the pyramid areas. I just want to sit there and nuke waves of adds for an hr+ and not have the down time of running down hallways. Maybe even on one of the gambit maps.
The time commitment is fine, and if anything I wish there were a version that went forever, past 50. I think the problem here is people are treating a 50 run like any other destiny 2 activity when in reality it’s much different. It’s SUPPOSED to be a time commitment and most runs aren’t expected to go to 50.
I do agree about wanting to be able to skip buy phases just to cut out some of the waiting though, and more loot would be nice.
This is spot on my experience too.
Onslaught is cool, I enjoy legend and think it's a fair challenge without feeling insurmountable, but it just drags on.
I don't really enjoy waves 1-20 either since they're not difficult, but really just bringing it down to a ~45 min activity would be phenomenal.
Brilliant writeup. Couldn't agree more, across the board. The activity and event have a lot going for it, but some really strange decisions from Bungie are holding it back from being an all-time great.
I think an option to start at wave 20 would be a good way to cut down on time. Basically you would make the tradeoff of 20 rounds of scrap for getting to the more rewarding (and hopefully worthwhile, if the patch announcement is to be believed) waves faster.
>and hopefully worthwhile, if the patch announcement is to be believed
Care to share more????
>I think an option to start at wave 20 would be a good way to cut down on time
You could allow for this as a "checkpoint" on a Run like I mentioned. Once you get to Wave 20, that becomes your "starting point" if you wiped... So you still gotta get there once that run, but can reset back to 20 if you want to keep trying.
I only have two things to add. For point 2, https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/s/UJ0RwjDtca. Bungie is increasing rewards. And for the guys spawning on top of the ADU, Bungie said that’s a bug already, it will hopefully be fixed next week
More adds, but weaker. Think hundreds of thralls charging at you/adu. This could be part of a bonus round where successfully completing it skips multiple rounds.
In regards to “pausing”, anytime you teleport away from the ADU it’s effectively paused. As long as no one jumps back through, you won’t get pushed to the next round. Used that downtime to coordinate scrap spending and bathroom breaks during my legend run.
>Many times because of the time/difficulty if we struggle even a LITTLE in the first 1-10 waves, I will bail on the group,
Look there's nothing wrong with bowing out of a lfg where you specify you want experienced/KWTD players. It becomes obvious when they don't have that prerequisite
But the "struggle even a *LITTLE*" part just sounds kind of toxic. I'm not sure what your definition of little is, but even when I play with my clan mates the ones I've completed day 1s with specifically even, making a little mistake can happen for any number of reasons. And again, these are contest + challenge mode raids/master raids/100s of GMs etc, completion players.
Granted I'm aware there's one big difference here and that is, I actually know the skill of those players having played with them and done end game content with frequently. You definitely don't always know that with lfg players.
And don't get me wrong, id be able to tell pretty quick most of the time if things are gonna be struggle bus and cut my ties. However the first little mistake made? Like I said there's too many variables there that warrant leaving instantly. I would at least wait a few more waves or something.
You're allowed to make whatever requirements you want for lfg - no problem with that. But if you leave at the smallest of mistakes made, then you should probably be looking everyone up you play with and check out what they've done. Cause let's say this guy's an Esoterikk caliber player and they made a minor hiccup for whatever reason, you leaving because of that is kind of toxic.
But alas, I agree with the rest.
Every time I get into the mid to high 40s, a tormentor drops in, or I get the massive ultra that nukes the ADU from the sky that I can't physically get to before the game over screen.
I assume it's bad luck, as I've seen people complete 50 waves without a tormentor spawn - but even so, to lose a run to another RNG mechanic is just irritating.
I agree with points 2 and 3, but I disagree with 1. The point of the mode is it’s *supposed* to be a time commitment. Part of the difficulty that comes with Legend is that you have to one-shot it for full rewards. Being able to restart from a checkpoint would take a lot of the difficulty and tension out of the mode, I think.
I’ve completed a decent number of full 50 wave runs and most of them have come in to just a few minutes over an hour (65 minutes or so). I do agree that the spark wave should be removed and just be a regular wave, but other than that I’m not sure what else they could do to shorten the time without nerfing the difficulty - most waves outside of tormentors already take only a minute to complete.
Also, even if you do wipe deep into a run, there’s really not *that* much you’ve lost unless you don’t have the emblem yet. You’re still constantly getting rewards every 10 waves, so, relatively speaking, wiping on like wave 45 means you’ve lost…a single extra chest and a few minutes of your time. Compare this to something like a GM where you can easily spend 30-40 minutes on a run in some strikes, wipe on the boss, and walk away with absolutely nothing.
"I’ve completed a decent number of full 50 wave runs and most of them have come in to just a few minutes over an hour (65 minutes or so)."
This must be the Normal Version and not Legend?
Nope, Legend. The only real time sink between normal and legend is bosses and tormentors. If your team has good DPS, a full legend run only takes a few minutes more than normal. I’ve had one, maybe two runs come in at over 1:10 and that’s partly because we had a person go AFK for a minute or two after the period a few times.
Dang you guys are cooking. How are you finding these people to play with...
This was my last Legend 50, which made me never want to run it again: [https://imgur.com/a/w8Q2Q44](https://imgur.com/a/w8Q2Q44)
Here was a run we wiped on Wave 49 due to the 2 Demos that spawned on our ADU: https://imgur.com/a/bIQ6qVv. We all have/had completed the Legend 50, but never seems like I can get super quality people to run it...
I just want defense-based modifiers that rotate, at least for the normal version.
Stuff like:
* Tripmines are invulnerable and cost half price.
* Turrets deal double damage and have double health.
* Decoys regenerate health and slowly damage nearby enemies.
* All scrap drops are tripled.
Along with the usual beneficial modifiers like Heavyweight and Brawler.
Tormentors don't spawn on Adu but they can teleport probably when they stay in same place . So all the effort to stunlock and poof . Teleport and bosses stomp to orbit.
Didn’t they address Point 1 already on Twitter?
They’re adding incentive to doing 50. Not many Guardians use Twitter so it makes sense you didn’t see it
[Tweet](https://x.com/destiny2team/status/1780709251050258475?s=46)
Nope. They added 1 more random weapon you can get after any wave (increasing each wave) and 1 more guarantee after 50 waves coupled with increasing the trophies or whatever.
Basically the new farming meta will be run until you get the bonus weapon and then reset.
For example, what if I get that bonus drop on wave 8? Then I get 2 on wave 10. Finishing the run (50) only nets me the extra trophies and 1 extra weapon.
It will now only be SLIGHTLY better than just running the first 10,20,30 waves over and over. Don't get the bonus at 10? Go to 20. Etc.
If I can farm 90% of the drops but put in 10% of the effort, that's more sustainable long term.
If I get that bonus drop early, I'm actually better off leaving after the next boss.
They didn't solve the problem at all.
The time investment complain is silly. It’s supposed to be a long form gamemode, and adding checkpoints removes all risk and urgency. Get some friends to play with.
The rewards I agree with, I think going for 50 should be superior farming compared to 10 wave resets. I think slightly increasing shiny chances each set of 10 is a good idea, by how much I don’t know.
The rng makes it fun and keeps it from being stale and there honestly isn’t anything you can’t handle with the right builds and strategies. Tormentors are a joke if you just bait them to a decoy. Demolitionists are fairly weak. Mines are pretty tough if you don’t have an invis hunter which is unfortunate.
"Nah bro, skill issue, L2P, gotta kite them away, or save your supers, blah, blah, blah"
Yeah I agree. Spawning literally on top of you in a small space with other mobs basically forces your team comp to have a tether or it's game over. Basically I won't even attempt to go past ~30 waves without tether. I normally main Titan but have swapped to Phoenix Warlock to spam Wells.
Struggling a little in the first 1-10 rounds isn’t exactly indicative of how the run will end. You leaving is wasting 2 others people’s time for the chance that you will not waste time.
It wouldn't necessarily if there were a "pattern" to the waves
Where you spent the first 10 waves is where you'd spend the last 10 waves.
The idea is 1,2,3,2,1. You'd rotate through them and then you could effectively plan for your entire run, knowing where you'll be by wave 11. Since you'll know the starting area (1-9,41-49) and the second area (11-19,31-39) which leaves the third area for just waves 21-29.
You can feel good knowing investments in waves 1-9 and 11-19 would help you later in the run..
One caveat to the bit about no pause button, if nobody jumps through the portal at the end of a boss wave or a spark wave, you can stay there for quite a while. I haven’t stayed long enough to see if it’s indefinite, but a couple friends and myself have definitely taken between 5-10 minutes in there looking over rolls and clearing out inventory and other such things before moving on.
Why don’t people understand that after your first legend 50 clear, any clears after are nearly meaningless. You did not waste an hour of your time if you wipe during the 40’s. You got 8 weapon drops + tokens.
I think that's a problem....
Part of the game mode is this Rogue-Like game, or a "Tower Defense" game, and the increasing difficulty aspect of it.
You SHOULD be trying to finish the activity.
Imagine a Raid where the 1st boss is a cake walk, and drops ALL the raid loot. People would only do the full raid 1x, and then just spam the 1st encounter/boss for loot drops.
I think we can all agree that is a bad design for a game...
For sure. I'm not encouraging abandoning after wave 10 or anything like that. And it looks like with the announced changes, this is all moot now anyways. It's fun to have a solid group and get a 50 clear, but if I wipe on wave 43 I just don't really care.
Your first pain point complaint feels like you're missing the point of a horde mode? They're supposed to be a lengthy commitment and doing well is supposed to require a good team. The time investment isn't really a problem, it's essentially a feature.
Great suggestions, and I'd also suggest that 10 waves per round is just more than necessary. I honestly think a 30-40 minute target is much more reasonable, so I'd cut quite a bit more than you're suggesting. Get rid of the pyramid spark dunk like you said, but also what if they reduce it to 7-8 waves per round? Either that, or cap it at wave 40 instead of 50? Scale up the same, so the final waves are just as difficult as they are now, just make it so we don't have to do the same thing for so damn long, and so that a failure near the end isn't a ~1hr commitment to retry.
>cap it at wave 40 instead of 50?
This is not a bad idea at all. You could honestly just ditch waves 1-10 completely. So basically you "START" at Wave 11 difficulty, but it would show as "Wave 1".
So basically
Waves 1-10: CUT
Waves 11 - 20: New "Waves 1-10"
Wavers 21-29: New "Waves 11-19"
ETC.
This would legit shave off about 11-15 minutes alone. Making it about an hour long which would be right on. Lets be real, waves 1-10 are a joke anyways. I like it!
I agree with a lot of your points.
I think it would be cool to see a grandmaster playlist version that’s 10 rounds at -40 power level and limited revives. Basically just a skip to level 40 of legend with a little bit extra modifiers
The spark running thing feels so pointless. Does it even count as a round?
>"I think it would be cool to see a grandmaster playlist version that’s 10 rounds at -40 power level and limited revives. Basically just a skip to level 40 of legend with a little bit extra modifiers"
How would you balance the rewards? Give it a bonus chest (3 chests) instead of the 2 for doing Waves 1-10?
How would you balance not having any scrap?
>The spark running thing feels so pointless. Does it even count as a round?
Yes, and I am guessing this is their way of giving you a "pause" button where the timer doesn't start until you all go through the portal. It DOES count as a round though.
With the new system Level 40-50 on Legend will be 3 drops. Doing more feels excessive.
I'd say to leave it at 3 but maybe a higher % shiny and higher weighting of your focused drop.
With the new system legend 50 would have 3 chests. Doing more feels excessive. You can start with a fixed scrap level and then the rewards would be 3 chests with a higher % weighting for shiny and focused weapons.
>"With the new system legend 50 would have 3 chests. "
This is how it currently is. So basically you are suggesting to just let us pick our own starting wave. For those who want to take on the challenge of 40-50 and only need to spend \~15minutes in the activity, you can get the most efficient farm, but at the hardest difficulty. Since you would have no scrap, no defenses built up, etc.
It would also not count towards the challenge and/or emblem. It would also not quite be as much of a "horde mode" in that sense, but take less time, and give more rewards.
Or people could start at wave 40, same idea. and push through to 50, etc.
For people who want the easiest path, starting at wave 1 gives the most scrap, but takes the most time. Etc.
Yeah there’s a way to balance it all. But essentially. I think there’s an audience there. The first 20 waves in legend really aren’t that bad and more about helping to build scrap for later rounds.
I love the mode but it’s really a solid time commitment to do 50 waves.
Just updated the OP with this:
* **\*EDIT\* Potential to just Pick your Starting Wave (i.e. 11,21,31).** Before people complain about how this isn't a true horde mode, makes it too easy, etc. I don't think so. This could be **only available to people who have cleared all 50 in Legend**. I might suggest 31 as the latest possible starting Wave. If you start at say Wave 31, you have zero Scrap built up, zero defenses built up and it would start you at the most difficult waves. Waves 1-30 are usually considered extremely easy and for most are a waste of time, but actually make the mode the easiest as you get to have all that time to build up scrap. This would let people only have to run \~20 waves, and could be done in <30 minutes with a solid team, it would be very difficult, and also very rewarding!
I think maybe allowing for Wave 31 to be the start point, would allow you to accomplish your goal in that it drastically shortens it, but still gives quite a bit of challenge. So you would only need to play 20 waves.
Yeah I like your idea. Just let you select which wave you want to start with. People will complain about it being too easy, but thinking through it, I dont think that it is. You have zero defenses built up. I could see the best strat being to start on wave 30, so you have some time to build scrap.
I agree. You shouldn't be able to do that at all. I am not suggesting that. Is that what you understood me to say? If so that's not what I am saying at all....
Restarting at the start of the wave is basically trivializing it though. I know you’re not saying that exact round but it’s still a little too forgiving imo
I said just one possible idea or option and literally said not all those options should be added together..
That suggestion wasn't that wave/round but would take you back to the last boss kill.
Meaning if you wiped on wave 39 you go back to 30. You could also make it a 1x a run option so if you wipe a second time you get booted to orbit. Point was just to spark discussion around ideas.
Point 2 is the only thing I agree with.
The time commitment is perfect the only reason why it feels bad is the rewards at the end.
Point 3 is literally just how it works. Figure out your strategy.
"The time commitment is perfect" IDK about this. Sometimes I have literally like 1 hr to play.. Cant do 50 waves in that time, and if we happen to wipe, D/C, or whatever 10 minutes in, now I have 50 minutes to play Destiny and I cant do the activity I want to do. Its just too long a time commitment.
I can do an encounter in a Raid or Dungeon, and take a break after we complete it. I can do almost anything in the game in a reasonable amount of time. Heck, I can go do a GM in < 30 minutes most of the time... Forcing me to spend \~80minutes on ONE attempt is just too long...
"Point 3 is literally just how it works. Figure out your strategy."
I think you are missing the point. You cannot strategize for something you do not know. You do not know where the final 10 waves will be, so you cannot plan around how much to bank, etc in Rounds 30-39... You also dont know what random events you will have, and if you will get some random Tormentor spawning on top of you in that final round... You quite literally CANNOT "Figure out your strategy" with the RNG...
If you only have one hour to play then don’t play legend onslaught. You know how long it takes and how long you can commit to playing destiny at once, so pick your activities accordingly. The length of time it goes for feels great to me, however I do agree with some of the point on finding ways to speed it up such as the ‘ready next wave’, etc. I don’t believe there should be a checkpoint mechanic as that is the entire point of onslaught is that it is a horde mode that doesn’t stop.
Point 3 is a skill issue, not going to sugar coat it. You 100% can predict when the alternate enemies will spawn in, you just don’t know which type it will be. If you can’t deal with a tormentor or two bosses then you need to prepare better. You should already have a build if you are getting to that point in legend onslaught so make use of that build and your game knowledge. If it’s the tormentor don’t just stand on the point, back up and draw him away from the ADU, if it’s the bosses, then communicate to your teammates to melt one at a time rather than dividing your attention. You should have a basic plan for each and every situation, that’s what defines a good player, and if you don’t have that plan then you are probably going to fail.
>If you only have one hour to play then don’t play legend onslaught.
I mean, I can accomplish almost anything else in the game in <1 hr. Why is this activity different? Again you miss part of the point.
What if I have exactly 75 minutes. Great! Lets get a run in. Oh crud, wiped at waive 29. Well, now I have 50 minutes. Guess I might as well just log off now? Cant do the activity I want to do?
>You 100% can predict when the alternate enemies will spawn in
Again misses the point. You dont know where the final 40-49 waves will be (which location). You dont know which type it will be (Tormentor, Demolitionist? Skybomber? etc) Which means you wont know where they will spawn in.... On the ADU? Somewhere else? Etc.
You cannot plan on what to save for/buy, where, to fight against what, its all just RNG based. It would be another thing entirely if you had like 1 of each special encounter per run so if you didnt have Tormentor yet, and its wave 48, you knew it was coming wave 49... Or if you had it waver 39, you wouldnt get it waver 49, etc.
It seems you just want to argue, so ill let you have the final word.
Because it’s a different activity… your statement basically reads ‘all activities in this game should be the same length of time and if I wipe then I should start at where I died.’ I don’t agree with this take, there should be activities in the game that require a larger time commitment and some that require shorter to cater for all types of players.
You are correct, you don’t know a lot of those things, but do you have a basic strategy or plan for all of those things? Because if not, then come up with one, because that’s how you are going to be more successful.
I’m not trying to be argumentative, you’ve stated your point of view and I’m stating mine. The mode is not perfect, however I don’t agree with most of your points, and just like you voiced yours, I’m voicing mine in the same forum.
How about this then. Someone else made this suggestion.
Ditch Waves 1-10. Let us start at Wave 11. Call it "Wave 1" So we basically just play Waves 11-50 but will be re-named Waves 1-40.
Would shave off something like 11-15 minutes of time from the activity. Making it closer to an Hour for a full run.
Being honest, we can all agree Waves 1-10 are a joke anyways. Maybe bump the starting scrap to like 3,000 to compensate for not having that 1-10 round.
Would that be fair?
Fair to who? You are stating that it is currently unfair to someone, and I would argue that it isn’t. You say you don’t have enough time to run the activity that you want, so either change the time you have to play (obviously might not be realistic) or change the activity you want to play (in your control).
Waves 1-10 are a free loot drop, why would I want to get rid of it?
You said you'd feel it's a waste to fail at round 40+, but it's not really you, get rewarded up until that point. It's not like your rewards are dependent on the whole thing.
There is a little risk/reward. Shall we try going for the next 0 waves for more loot. Or should we dip out and start again where the difficulty is lower.
If doing 50 rounds is too long, just create lfg posts for whatever rounds you want to go for.
Disagree with the Guaranteed shiny unless its 1 per account per week
The point of them is to be ultra rare, if you can specifically farm shinies, that defeats the purpose of them imo.
Definitely agree with the OP. Not all heroes wear capes. Take an upvote from me.
Less randomness and more rewards. I also think tormentors should not spawn with top tier enemies like wizards or servitors.
>tormentors should not spawn with top tier enemies like wizards or servitors.
Cheers, I am fine with them spawning, just not ON TOP of the ADU basically. Let them spawn with the enemies at normal spawn points and give you a second to have some strategy on how you wanna handle the wave. Especially like Midtown on that "inside" area, you have no wiggle room to make it work. IDK. Just feels frustrating to have a great run going, and be like 45+ min in, and have it all thrown out because of a bad break in a spawn or something...
Them spawning on the point is the entire point, it’s to make you stop, change your play style and react. They do give you a couple seconds to prepare, the noise a tormentor makes, the text when a demolitionist is about to spawn, these things happen.
The entire point of the mode is that is a horde mode with tough enemies, to complain about tough enemies spawning with other tough enemies is ludicrous to me. Teams have no problem with these things occurring, because they have a plan and can enact that plan.
The whole crux of a point defence mode is setting up and strategising for the waves that are coming. The fairness of the game evaporates if the strongest enemy (by a significant margin) spawns instantly on the point you are trying to defend, not to mention the fact that this happens *at random*.
It doesn’t happen at random, this mindset needs to stop. Alternate enemies spawn at waves ending in 2 and 9, the type they are is random. If you aren’t setting up for those alternate enemies at the start of that wave then you are going to fail at the higher difficulties.
You literally buy defences whose sole purpose is to bait those enemies away from the point, and you can do this as well. Just get their attention and leg it in the opposite direction, that is your strategy you just talked about. So these things exist, people just need to do them.
Great write up! Definitely with you in the time between rounds, especially the ones where there’s literally nothing to do because you don’t have enough scrap to upgrade, your ammo is full, etc. I’m just standing there staring at my teammates for 15-20 seconds. I got my 50 wave clear on legend and will never do it again without reward changes. There’s just no point to it, which is a very weird design choice. It’s like running the first encounter of a raid on repeat because you can get loot from the whole raid that way. I don’t get what they implemented it this way.
>"I got my 50 wave clear on legend and will never do it again without reward changes. There’s just no point to it, which is a very weird design choice. It’s like running the first encounter of a raid on repeat because you can get loot from the whole raid that way." I feel like its even worse then that. It would be like having a Raid/Dungeon WITHOUT checkpoints, where you can get all the loot off the first encounter... Well, why would people spend an hour to try and complete it, if you can just refresh spam the first encounter that happens to be the easiest? Even with a reward refresh... Lets say they gave a GUARANTEED "Shiny" from wave 50. That wont solve the problem IMO. People will still just spam 1-10 because its way less time commitment, stress, effort, etc. But yeah, I think it could be a really special mode, just needs a bit of fine-tuning.
Guranteed shiny would defiantly solve it. Shiny having double perks makes them significantly more likely to be god rolls. I’m not in favor of this I think it’s too much to do that but it would 100% stop 10 wave farms
Forsure
>It’s like running the first encounter of a raid on repeat because you can get loot from the whole raid that way. Last wish moment
Was literally just thinking that lol. Kali farming is even more brain-dead and repetitive than legend 10 wave farming while somehow being way faster. The only tradeoff is that armour is in the loot pool.
I fear the buying rounds are made to reset cooldowns, and also buffs. for example, the buying rounds are ~just~ long enough to kill Banner, as are the hallways to all the (10s) boss rooms
Interesting thought, I hadn’t considered that.
It's unlikely that they'll make it so you can pause between every single wave - I think it's intended to be part of the difficulty that you can't just wait for cooldowns (especially your super...) between waves if youre trying to get your first legend 50. However, you can use the spark room and boss rooms as pause points if you really need.
Fair enough. You are right. Im so used to people just hopping through portals and never getting a second to break. I do agree you shouldnt be able to pause to abuse it. Would be pretty easy to disable super regen during a "pause" or even inbetween rounds though.
One of my rooms I sat in the spark room for 20 minutes for a guy to use the bathroom lol
The people's champ right here
I'd like a 30 round playlist as a happy medium.
I think they could add a Legend, Match made 10 round version (like they have normal now) and would let those who wanna just do 1-10 to just do that. Would eliminate people leaving after round 10 in a 1-50 mode.
30 round is the perfect middle ground. 50 rounds is way too big of a time commitment
I agree, especially with the spark wave. Sooooo boring
The spark wave completely breaks the flow of the mission. I think it must've been put in there just to teach people the crucible mechanic or something. Also, the hallway before the boss fight? What's up with that? Just spawn me at the flag.
>I agree, especially with the spark wave. Sooooo boring Yeah I am not quite sure the "point" of that wave... a small break? Maybe that is your time to go pee or grab a coffee refill without a timer? IDK...
Bungie said on their intial reveal stream that the spark section was supposed to be akin to an action movie scene. I get what they were trying to do but it just makes for an unnecessary break. Though if they made it so that we go to the pyramid area only 1 every 10 waves and have the spark running segment just before the boss fight, I'd be cool with that.
The spark is what gives you the banner. Boom
My only issue is the Rift portal being a waste of time, and the downtime for buying upgrades. Just let us buy upgrades whenever we want to and get rid of the rift portal sections.
I think this mode really highlights the problems with boss tormentors. The damage reduction they get from anything that isn’t precision damage to their crit spot is way too high. It pretty much invalidates any explosive based weaponry, something that is very much required to deal with the swarm of enemies. It also severely dampens the effect of our abilities and supers. The fact that the only crit spot is on his chest, once you break the shoulders, is also a huge pain. Because he moves around so much and at high speeds. It’s incredibly difficult to hit the crit spot. Almost all of our big burst DPS stuff is explosive based. Other things just aren’t effective against a tormentor because of the damage they deal and the knock back plus suppression effect.
Bring him to a decoy
You make some interesting points. Everyone can agree with 2 I think, but it would not take much to make the 50 legend worthwhile I think. 3, personally I find randomness a key reason why onslaught is so engaging. Much less dull than spawn killing in a GM for example! Please keep the current system! As for 1, well, I like that you can lose time in there, but yes 50 is a LONG time commitment. Nonetheless I think the spark run is necessary to keep players engaged weirdly, a bit of a calm period. While I think the time commitment is a minor issue, I feel these suggestions probably cause more issues than they solve. Hope to see you out there!
>3, personally I find randomness a key reason why onslaught is so engaging. Much less dull than spawn killing in a GM for example! Please keep the current system! I agree, I want randomness and "not knowing" I think you may not be understanding what I am saying. I am not suggesting ANYTHING change other than 1) Tormentors and Demolitionists no longer spawn literally ontop of the ADU... Have them spawn in the normal locations that all other mobs spawn. and 2) Basically whichever LOCATION you spawn in on, that is the location you would be for waves 1-9 and then circle back around waves 40-49. Its literally the same experience you have now with randomness... But allows a small level of "pattern" to be planned for or strategized for. Its a bit silly you can fight waves 30-39 in one location, and then be BACK at that same location waves 40-49. Id rather it basically rotate every single time.
Ahh I see, I misunderstood. Seeing that tormentor land right on the ADU does make my heart sink lol. But who am I to deny them that superhero landing accompanied by awesome musical motif??
1 is a flimsy point overall. People keep saying they lost an hour or whatever. You're getting less rewards than a full run, but you're still getting rewards. You get squat for a failed GM. Onslaught is doling rewards all along the way.
I agree. I like being forced to shift my focus and make a hard decision between giving the ads more ground or let the tormentors or demolishionists absolutely man handle the adu. It can definitely end a run like he's saying, but saying that it's a definite loss is a little overboard. It's legend, it's supposed to be challenging. May I offer a small "git gud"? Can I get an amen?
The time thing is my biggest pain point. Not only does it make it more of a risk doing the activity with randoms just to waste 30+ mins on a failed run, but also if someone is trying to be as efficient as possible they would only play Midtown since to my knowledge it has the fastest completion potential due to the map not being as big as the others. As a matter of fact that's a pain point I have with the game in general now. It seems like people define stuff as too easy if it can be finished in 30 mins or less and stuff that takes longer is "challenging." As someone who likes racing games, this is the equivalent of thinking players who play endurance races for fun are more skilled than everyone else. They're not, they just have more time than others to play the game.
When you get rewards every 10 waves and every set takes roughly 10-12 minutes the most time you could possibly "waste" is, like, 9 minutes?
The Boss restart would be amazing honestly. Even if I would be on Wave 49 wipe and be put back to 40 it would be better than now
Yeah but that makes it too easy. I don’t know, I’m not one of those “destiny should be impossible” guys but the challenge is in the fact that you gotta be on the entire time.
To me, this is what legend should be for. There is no restart on legend, but then the rewards should be worth it. Guarantee a shiny gun at the end of the 50 Legend run, then the risk has a definable reward.
Yeah frankly, that one change alone, and I would probably do more 50 wave runs.
Some great points. > Potential to "Restart" after a Boss Kill Wave, Rather than Starting Over. Say you wipe at Wave 39. Rather than starting fresh, it wipes you back to the last "Checkpoint" of Wave 30? Just an idea. Would make "trying for Wave 50" Not such a HUGE time commitment... Maybe you just get one of these per run, but something that reduces the prospect of committing another ~75minutes to attempt 50 Waves again. I'm thinking some kind of hail mary. Titanfall 2's wave defense had a VERY expensive health bump you could keep in your back pocket. If things got hairy you could activate it and raise the harvester from 1% to 100% health with the press of a button. If they repurposed Rift into a bonus objective, well... not all objectives are equal. Harder ones should give better rewards than a crate of heavy. Maybe easy stuff like "capture Pyramid zone" could reward heavy, while more involved and dangerous ones like Rift could give the Rift runner a stackable one-time-use life support injection. Maybe allow them a "hold E" near the ADU, or maybe their scrap balls now heal 200% more for the next 20 waves or something. > Getting that Tormentor Round 19 is nothing.... versus in Round 49, can literally just break a run. I think even just a warning on the previous wave could do wonders. There's some kind of personal pyramid ship that appears directly above the ADU when they spawn in. All it would take is putting that ship in the air 1 wave before, along with some red HUD text "A TORMENTOR APPROACHES" or something. The elites aren't THAT hard. My no-mic rando teams can burn them down in seconds so long as we have ammo and supers. But that relies on us not being killed instantly because one spawned right on top of us on wave 31+, severely upping the stakes for the surviving team. And yeah, bypassing defenses should be out of the question. Let's just give the ADU some sort of anti-transmat IFF, yeah?
This is a good post for sure. I definitely feel you on the down time. Especially when you only farm to wave 10 you barely need any defenses that early so the down time is even more pointless. While Onslaught is now probably my favorite PvE mode now aside from Raids and Dungeons, I wish we had a separate version where there is no teleporting to the pyramid areas. I just want to sit there and nuke waves of adds for an hr+ and not have the down time of running down hallways. Maybe even on one of the gambit maps.
The time commitment is fine, and if anything I wish there were a version that went forever, past 50. I think the problem here is people are treating a 50 run like any other destiny 2 activity when in reality it’s much different. It’s SUPPOSED to be a time commitment and most runs aren’t expected to go to 50. I do agree about wanting to be able to skip buy phases just to cut out some of the waiting though, and more loot would be nice.
Beating all 50 waves on legend should be a guaranteed shiny drop.
I could be onboard with this forsure.
This is spot on my experience too. Onslaught is cool, I enjoy legend and think it's a fair challenge without feeling insurmountable, but it just drags on. I don't really enjoy waves 1-20 either since they're not difficult, but really just bringing it down to a ~45 min activity would be phenomenal.
Brilliant writeup. Couldn't agree more, across the board. The activity and event have a lot going for it, but some really strange decisions from Bungie are holding it back from being an all-time great.
I have really been enjoying it (obviously), but just needs a few small tweaks and it could be a smash hit IMO!
I think an option to start at wave 20 would be a good way to cut down on time. Basically you would make the tradeoff of 20 rounds of scrap for getting to the more rewarding (and hopefully worthwhile, if the patch announcement is to be believed) waves faster.
>and hopefully worthwhile, if the patch announcement is to be believed Care to share more???? >I think an option to start at wave 20 would be a good way to cut down on time You could allow for this as a "checkpoint" on a Run like I mentioned. Once you get to Wave 20, that becomes your "starting point" if you wiped... So you still gotta get there once that run, but can reset back to 20 if you want to keep trying.
The dev team responded about changes to onslaught. Look it up.
Yeah I Googled it, didnt see anything. Where did they respond?
https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/s/FY1pLfMA22 They made a post...
Thanks, idk why it didn't show up.... Literally googled it twice....
I only have two things to add. For point 2, https://www.reddit.com/r/DestinyTheGame/s/UJ0RwjDtca. Bungie is increasing rewards. And for the guys spawning on top of the ADU, Bungie said that’s a bug already, it will hopefully be fixed next week
It's almost like they don't test things before they release it!?
i agree with a better CHANCE for a shiny but I really dont want anything that GUARANTEES a shiny drop. I really like how rare they feel right now
Ya that's what I was trying to say. I'm torn on the guarantee but a higher chance? Yeah.
More adds, but weaker. Think hundreds of thralls charging at you/adu. This could be part of a bonus round where successfully completing it skips multiple rounds.
There’s no reason to not make a shiny guaranteed from wave 50. This shit is harder than any GM.
Guaranteed Shiny for a 50 wave Legend run That shit would at least be worth the trouble because it's not easy
In regards to “pausing”, anytime you teleport away from the ADU it’s effectively paused. As long as no one jumps back through, you won’t get pushed to the next round. Used that downtime to coordinate scrap spending and bathroom breaks during my legend run.
>Many times because of the time/difficulty if we struggle even a LITTLE in the first 1-10 waves, I will bail on the group, Look there's nothing wrong with bowing out of a lfg where you specify you want experienced/KWTD players. It becomes obvious when they don't have that prerequisite But the "struggle even a *LITTLE*" part just sounds kind of toxic. I'm not sure what your definition of little is, but even when I play with my clan mates the ones I've completed day 1s with specifically even, making a little mistake can happen for any number of reasons. And again, these are contest + challenge mode raids/master raids/100s of GMs etc, completion players. Granted I'm aware there's one big difference here and that is, I actually know the skill of those players having played with them and done end game content with frequently. You definitely don't always know that with lfg players. And don't get me wrong, id be able to tell pretty quick most of the time if things are gonna be struggle bus and cut my ties. However the first little mistake made? Like I said there's too many variables there that warrant leaving instantly. I would at least wait a few more waves or something. You're allowed to make whatever requirements you want for lfg - no problem with that. But if you leave at the smallest of mistakes made, then you should probably be looking everyone up you play with and check out what they've done. Cause let's say this guy's an Esoterikk caliber player and they made a minor hiccup for whatever reason, you leaving because of that is kind of toxic. But alas, I agree with the rest.
Every time I get into the mid to high 40s, a tormentor drops in, or I get the massive ultra that nukes the ADU from the sky that I can't physically get to before the game over screen. I assume it's bad luck, as I've seen people complete 50 waves without a tormentor spawn - but even so, to lose a run to another RNG mechanic is just irritating.
I agree with points 2 and 3, but I disagree with 1. The point of the mode is it’s *supposed* to be a time commitment. Part of the difficulty that comes with Legend is that you have to one-shot it for full rewards. Being able to restart from a checkpoint would take a lot of the difficulty and tension out of the mode, I think. I’ve completed a decent number of full 50 wave runs and most of them have come in to just a few minutes over an hour (65 minutes or so). I do agree that the spark wave should be removed and just be a regular wave, but other than that I’m not sure what else they could do to shorten the time without nerfing the difficulty - most waves outside of tormentors already take only a minute to complete. Also, even if you do wipe deep into a run, there’s really not *that* much you’ve lost unless you don’t have the emblem yet. You’re still constantly getting rewards every 10 waves, so, relatively speaking, wiping on like wave 45 means you’ve lost…a single extra chest and a few minutes of your time. Compare this to something like a GM where you can easily spend 30-40 minutes on a run in some strikes, wipe on the boss, and walk away with absolutely nothing.
"I’ve completed a decent number of full 50 wave runs and most of them have come in to just a few minutes over an hour (65 minutes or so)." This must be the Normal Version and not Legend?
Nope, Legend. The only real time sink between normal and legend is bosses and tormentors. If your team has good DPS, a full legend run only takes a few minutes more than normal. I’ve had one, maybe two runs come in at over 1:10 and that’s partly because we had a person go AFK for a minute or two after the period a few times.
Care to share your Destinytracker?
Sure. \[Here you go\](https://destinytracker.com/destiny-2/profile/bungie/4611686018510076349/overview)
Dang you guys are cooking. How are you finding these people to play with... This was my last Legend 50, which made me never want to run it again: [https://imgur.com/a/w8Q2Q44](https://imgur.com/a/w8Q2Q44) Here was a run we wiped on Wave 49 due to the 2 Demos that spawned on our ADU: https://imgur.com/a/bIQ6qVv. We all have/had completed the Legend 50, but never seems like I can get super quality people to run it...
I just want defense-based modifiers that rotate, at least for the normal version. Stuff like: * Tripmines are invulnerable and cost half price. * Turrets deal double damage and have double health. * Decoys regenerate health and slowly damage nearby enemies. * All scrap drops are tripled. Along with the usual beneficial modifiers like Heavyweight and Brawler.
Tormentors don't spawn on Adu but they can teleport probably when they stay in same place . So all the effort to stunlock and poof . Teleport and bosses stomp to orbit.
>Tormentors don't spawn on Adu Midtown on the inside point they definitely do.
Tf have we become
Didn’t they address Point 1 already on Twitter? They’re adding incentive to doing 50. Not many Guardians use Twitter so it makes sense you didn’t see it [Tweet](https://x.com/destiny2team/status/1780709251050258475?s=46)
Nope. They added 1 more random weapon you can get after any wave (increasing each wave) and 1 more guarantee after 50 waves coupled with increasing the trophies or whatever. Basically the new farming meta will be run until you get the bonus weapon and then reset. For example, what if I get that bonus drop on wave 8? Then I get 2 on wave 10. Finishing the run (50) only nets me the extra trophies and 1 extra weapon. It will now only be SLIGHTLY better than just running the first 10,20,30 waves over and over. Don't get the bonus at 10? Go to 20. Etc. If I can farm 90% of the drops but put in 10% of the effort, that's more sustainable long term. If I get that bonus drop early, I'm actually better off leaving after the next boss. They didn't solve the problem at all.
The time investment complain is silly. It’s supposed to be a long form gamemode, and adding checkpoints removes all risk and urgency. Get some friends to play with. The rewards I agree with, I think going for 50 should be superior farming compared to 10 wave resets. I think slightly increasing shiny chances each set of 10 is a good idea, by how much I don’t know. The rng makes it fun and keeps it from being stale and there honestly isn’t anything you can’t handle with the right builds and strategies. Tormentors are a joke if you just bait them to a decoy. Demolitionists are fairly weak. Mines are pretty tough if you don’t have an invis hunter which is unfortunate.
I never said add checkpoints.... I never said remove RNG.....
Demolitionists spawning on top of the ADU is what has ended every attempt to clear legend so far for me. It's such bullshit.
"Nah bro, skill issue, L2P, gotta kite them away, or save your supers, blah, blah, blah" Yeah I agree. Spawning literally on top of you in a small space with other mobs basically forces your team comp to have a tether or it's game over. Basically I won't even attempt to go past ~30 waves without tether. I normally main Titan but have swapped to Phoenix Warlock to spam Wells.
Struggling a little in the first 1-10 rounds isn’t exactly indicative of how the run will end. You leaving is wasting 2 others people’s time for the chance that you will not waste time.
Hate the game not the player
[удалено]
Yeah you're right. LF Tether/Well only. Everything else, take a hike.
Having three different spots is an issue as well and makes it difficult to effectively invest in your upgrades.
It wouldn't necessarily if there were a "pattern" to the waves Where you spent the first 10 waves is where you'd spend the last 10 waves. The idea is 1,2,3,2,1. You'd rotate through them and then you could effectively plan for your entire run, knowing where you'll be by wave 11. Since you'll know the starting area (1-9,41-49) and the second area (11-19,31-39) which leaves the third area for just waves 21-29. You can feel good knowing investments in waves 1-9 and 11-19 would help you later in the run..
if you can't hold it for an hour and need a pause button maybe wear a diaper i guess
I am getting to that age.... Maybe that's the solution
One caveat to the bit about no pause button, if nobody jumps through the portal at the end of a boss wave or a spark wave, you can stay there for quite a while. I haven’t stayed long enough to see if it’s indefinite, but a couple friends and myself have definitely taken between 5-10 minutes in there looking over rolls and clearing out inventory and other such things before moving on.
Why don’t people understand that after your first legend 50 clear, any clears after are nearly meaningless. You did not waste an hour of your time if you wipe during the 40’s. You got 8 weapon drops + tokens.
I think that's a problem.... Part of the game mode is this Rogue-Like game, or a "Tower Defense" game, and the increasing difficulty aspect of it. You SHOULD be trying to finish the activity. Imagine a Raid where the 1st boss is a cake walk, and drops ALL the raid loot. People would only do the full raid 1x, and then just spam the 1st encounter/boss for loot drops. I think we can all agree that is a bad design for a game...
For sure. I'm not encouraging abandoning after wave 10 or anything like that. And it looks like with the announced changes, this is all moot now anyways. It's fun to have a solid group and get a 50 clear, but if I wipe on wave 43 I just don't really care.
Nah people are gonna dip as soon as they get their bonus one now. If I get the 1 bonus drop on wave 13, why would I stay?
Don't forget that random run in and dunk the spark thing adds unnecessary time to the runs that doesn't need to be there.
Your first pain point complaint feels like you're missing the point of a horde mode? They're supposed to be a lengthy commitment and doing well is supposed to require a good team. The time investment isn't really a problem, it's essentially a feature.
You sound like a real estate agent or maybe a lawyer. Time investment as a feature? That's creative :-) So the longer it takes the better it is?
Great suggestions, and I'd also suggest that 10 waves per round is just more than necessary. I honestly think a 30-40 minute target is much more reasonable, so I'd cut quite a bit more than you're suggesting. Get rid of the pyramid spark dunk like you said, but also what if they reduce it to 7-8 waves per round? Either that, or cap it at wave 40 instead of 50? Scale up the same, so the final waves are just as difficult as they are now, just make it so we don't have to do the same thing for so damn long, and so that a failure near the end isn't a ~1hr commitment to retry.
>cap it at wave 40 instead of 50? This is not a bad idea at all. You could honestly just ditch waves 1-10 completely. So basically you "START" at Wave 11 difficulty, but it would show as "Wave 1". So basically Waves 1-10: CUT Waves 11 - 20: New "Waves 1-10" Wavers 21-29: New "Waves 11-19" ETC. This would legit shave off about 11-15 minutes alone. Making it about an hour long which would be right on. Lets be real, waves 1-10 are a joke anyways. I like it!
I agree with a lot of your points. I think it would be cool to see a grandmaster playlist version that’s 10 rounds at -40 power level and limited revives. Basically just a skip to level 40 of legend with a little bit extra modifiers The spark running thing feels so pointless. Does it even count as a round?
>"I think it would be cool to see a grandmaster playlist version that’s 10 rounds at -40 power level and limited revives. Basically just a skip to level 40 of legend with a little bit extra modifiers" How would you balance the rewards? Give it a bonus chest (3 chests) instead of the 2 for doing Waves 1-10? How would you balance not having any scrap? >The spark running thing feels so pointless. Does it even count as a round? Yes, and I am guessing this is their way of giving you a "pause" button where the timer doesn't start until you all go through the portal. It DOES count as a round though.
With the new system Level 40-50 on Legend will be 3 drops. Doing more feels excessive. I'd say to leave it at 3 but maybe a higher % shiny and higher weighting of your focused drop.
With the new system legend 50 would have 3 chests. Doing more feels excessive. You can start with a fixed scrap level and then the rewards would be 3 chests with a higher % weighting for shiny and focused weapons.
>"With the new system legend 50 would have 3 chests. " This is how it currently is. So basically you are suggesting to just let us pick our own starting wave. For those who want to take on the challenge of 40-50 and only need to spend \~15minutes in the activity, you can get the most efficient farm, but at the hardest difficulty. Since you would have no scrap, no defenses built up, etc. It would also not count towards the challenge and/or emblem. It would also not quite be as much of a "horde mode" in that sense, but take less time, and give more rewards. Or people could start at wave 40, same idea. and push through to 50, etc. For people who want the easiest path, starting at wave 1 gives the most scrap, but takes the most time. Etc.
Yeah there’s a way to balance it all. But essentially. I think there’s an audience there. The first 20 waves in legend really aren’t that bad and more about helping to build scrap for later rounds. I love the mode but it’s really a solid time commitment to do 50 waves.
Just updated the OP with this: * **\*EDIT\* Potential to just Pick your Starting Wave (i.e. 11,21,31).** Before people complain about how this isn't a true horde mode, makes it too easy, etc. I don't think so. This could be **only available to people who have cleared all 50 in Legend**. I might suggest 31 as the latest possible starting Wave. If you start at say Wave 31, you have zero Scrap built up, zero defenses built up and it would start you at the most difficult waves. Waves 1-30 are usually considered extremely easy and for most are a waste of time, but actually make the mode the easiest as you get to have all that time to build up scrap. This would let people only have to run \~20 waves, and could be done in <30 minutes with a solid team, it would be very difficult, and also very rewarding! I think maybe allowing for Wave 31 to be the start point, would allow you to accomplish your goal in that it drastically shortens it, but still gives quite a bit of challenge. So you would only need to play 20 waves.
Yeah I like your idea. Just let you select which wave you want to start with. People will complain about it being too easy, but thinking through it, I dont think that it is. You have zero defenses built up. I could see the best strat being to start on wave 30, so you have some time to build scrap.
I don’t know if I like the idea of being able to jump back in like a raid, even tho the time commitment is a grind. The challenge is in the grind.
I agree. You shouldn't be able to do that at all. I am not suggesting that. Is that what you understood me to say? If so that's not what I am saying at all....
Restarting at the start of the wave is basically trivializing it though. I know you’re not saying that exact round but it’s still a little too forgiving imo
I said just one possible idea or option and literally said not all those options should be added together.. That suggestion wasn't that wave/round but would take you back to the last boss kill. Meaning if you wiped on wave 39 you go back to 30. You could also make it a 1x a run option so if you wipe a second time you get booted to orbit. Point was just to spark discussion around ideas.
It's already easy
Point 2 is the only thing I agree with. The time commitment is perfect the only reason why it feels bad is the rewards at the end. Point 3 is literally just how it works. Figure out your strategy.
"The time commitment is perfect" IDK about this. Sometimes I have literally like 1 hr to play.. Cant do 50 waves in that time, and if we happen to wipe, D/C, or whatever 10 minutes in, now I have 50 minutes to play Destiny and I cant do the activity I want to do. Its just too long a time commitment. I can do an encounter in a Raid or Dungeon, and take a break after we complete it. I can do almost anything in the game in a reasonable amount of time. Heck, I can go do a GM in < 30 minutes most of the time... Forcing me to spend \~80minutes on ONE attempt is just too long... "Point 3 is literally just how it works. Figure out your strategy." I think you are missing the point. You cannot strategize for something you do not know. You do not know where the final 10 waves will be, so you cannot plan around how much to bank, etc in Rounds 30-39... You also dont know what random events you will have, and if you will get some random Tormentor spawning on top of you in that final round... You quite literally CANNOT "Figure out your strategy" with the RNG...
If you only have one hour to play then don’t play legend onslaught. You know how long it takes and how long you can commit to playing destiny at once, so pick your activities accordingly. The length of time it goes for feels great to me, however I do agree with some of the point on finding ways to speed it up such as the ‘ready next wave’, etc. I don’t believe there should be a checkpoint mechanic as that is the entire point of onslaught is that it is a horde mode that doesn’t stop. Point 3 is a skill issue, not going to sugar coat it. You 100% can predict when the alternate enemies will spawn in, you just don’t know which type it will be. If you can’t deal with a tormentor or two bosses then you need to prepare better. You should already have a build if you are getting to that point in legend onslaught so make use of that build and your game knowledge. If it’s the tormentor don’t just stand on the point, back up and draw him away from the ADU, if it’s the bosses, then communicate to your teammates to melt one at a time rather than dividing your attention. You should have a basic plan for each and every situation, that’s what defines a good player, and if you don’t have that plan then you are probably going to fail.
>If you only have one hour to play then don’t play legend onslaught. I mean, I can accomplish almost anything else in the game in <1 hr. Why is this activity different? Again you miss part of the point. What if I have exactly 75 minutes. Great! Lets get a run in. Oh crud, wiped at waive 29. Well, now I have 50 minutes. Guess I might as well just log off now? Cant do the activity I want to do? >You 100% can predict when the alternate enemies will spawn in Again misses the point. You dont know where the final 40-49 waves will be (which location). You dont know which type it will be (Tormentor, Demolitionist? Skybomber? etc) Which means you wont know where they will spawn in.... On the ADU? Somewhere else? Etc. You cannot plan on what to save for/buy, where, to fight against what, its all just RNG based. It would be another thing entirely if you had like 1 of each special encounter per run so if you didnt have Tormentor yet, and its wave 48, you knew it was coming wave 49... Or if you had it waver 39, you wouldnt get it waver 49, etc. It seems you just want to argue, so ill let you have the final word.
Because it’s a different activity… your statement basically reads ‘all activities in this game should be the same length of time and if I wipe then I should start at where I died.’ I don’t agree with this take, there should be activities in the game that require a larger time commitment and some that require shorter to cater for all types of players. You are correct, you don’t know a lot of those things, but do you have a basic strategy or plan for all of those things? Because if not, then come up with one, because that’s how you are going to be more successful. I’m not trying to be argumentative, you’ve stated your point of view and I’m stating mine. The mode is not perfect, however I don’t agree with most of your points, and just like you voiced yours, I’m voicing mine in the same forum.
How about this then. Someone else made this suggestion. Ditch Waves 1-10. Let us start at Wave 11. Call it "Wave 1" So we basically just play Waves 11-50 but will be re-named Waves 1-40. Would shave off something like 11-15 minutes of time from the activity. Making it closer to an Hour for a full run. Being honest, we can all agree Waves 1-10 are a joke anyways. Maybe bump the starting scrap to like 3,000 to compensate for not having that 1-10 round. Would that be fair?
Fair to who? You are stating that it is currently unfair to someone, and I would argue that it isn’t. You say you don’t have enough time to run the activity that you want, so either change the time you have to play (obviously might not be realistic) or change the activity you want to play (in your control). Waves 1-10 are a free loot drop, why would I want to get rid of it?
You said you'd feel it's a waste to fail at round 40+, but it's not really you, get rewarded up until that point. It's not like your rewards are dependent on the whole thing. There is a little risk/reward. Shall we try going for the next 0 waves for more loot. Or should we dip out and start again where the difficulty is lower. If doing 50 rounds is too long, just create lfg posts for whatever rounds you want to go for.
Disagree with the Guaranteed shiny unless its 1 per account per week The point of them is to be ultra rare, if you can specifically farm shinies, that defeats the purpose of them imo.
Definitely agree with the OP. Not all heroes wear capes. Take an upvote from me. Less randomness and more rewards. I also think tormentors should not spawn with top tier enemies like wizards or servitors.
>tormentors should not spawn with top tier enemies like wizards or servitors. Cheers, I am fine with them spawning, just not ON TOP of the ADU basically. Let them spawn with the enemies at normal spawn points and give you a second to have some strategy on how you wanna handle the wave. Especially like Midtown on that "inside" area, you have no wiggle room to make it work. IDK. Just feels frustrating to have a great run going, and be like 45+ min in, and have it all thrown out because of a bad break in a spawn or something...
Them spawning on the point is the entire point, it’s to make you stop, change your play style and react. They do give you a couple seconds to prepare, the noise a tormentor makes, the text when a demolitionist is about to spawn, these things happen. The entire point of the mode is that is a horde mode with tough enemies, to complain about tough enemies spawning with other tough enemies is ludicrous to me. Teams have no problem with these things occurring, because they have a plan and can enact that plan.
The whole crux of a point defence mode is setting up and strategising for the waves that are coming. The fairness of the game evaporates if the strongest enemy (by a significant margin) spawns instantly on the point you are trying to defend, not to mention the fact that this happens *at random*.
It doesn’t happen at random, this mindset needs to stop. Alternate enemies spawn at waves ending in 2 and 9, the type they are is random. If you aren’t setting up for those alternate enemies at the start of that wave then you are going to fail at the higher difficulties. You literally buy defences whose sole purpose is to bait those enemies away from the point, and you can do this as well. Just get their attention and leg it in the opposite direction, that is your strategy you just talked about. So these things exist, people just need to do them.