I actually watch this judge's trials often enough... You wouldn't believe how many bone-headed people show. I've seen a sovereign citizen try to argue with him, I've also seen a defendant smoke crack before his hearing on the waiting screen. I feel for this judge, lol
I'm a public defender in Detroit, and I've had this happen countless times. It is admittedly funny, but it's worth noting that this situation is the result of policies that lock a lot of poor (and mostly black) people into cycles of poverty and incarceration.
Most people driving while unlicensed in my experience are doing so because they lost their license due to unpaid fines. They usually pick up those fines for driving without insurance. They usually drive without insurance because they can't afford Detroit's exorbitant auto insurance rates. And they keep driving illegally not for funsies but because in a state without reliable mass transit, it's the only way to get to and from work.
Actions like this -- jailing someone over a nonviolent offense -- only make matters worse. This defendant will almost certainly lose his job while in jail, and if he's there more than a few days, could see his entire life collapse -- eviction and unemployment are common consequences of even brief periods of confinement for my clients. But of course, he'll still be expected to pay his court fees. And how is he going to do that other than by driving himself to work? Which will get him stopped and ticketed or arrested even more, just putting him deeper into a hole that it will take him years to escape (if he ever does).
This was actually me about 6/7 years ago. I picked up multiple suspended license tickets and had to drive to work to eventually pay off all my fines and have it reinstated. Thankfully a couple of times the police let me go or didn't arrest me; otherwise it would have been far worse.
An uninsured driver hit me going 40 when I was at a stop light in my car. Luckily, I was OK but my car was completely totaled. I was only in my early 20s and didn’t have much money, so I only had PLPD on my older car.
I was able to sue for the value of the car but the person never made payments…. So I suspended their license. They drove around for 7 years. Got popped a few times and then I believe got a DUI on that suspended license. It was only then they finally reached out to me to pay off the balance.
I agree that insurance rates are insane, but this guy obviously has no common sense whatsoever to be driving during his court appearance and then using the phone while driving… another broken law.
“You seemed to be” is an incorrect assumption. What I was trying to point out is how incredibly stupid people are.
After the first 4 years of my accident, I had to go back to court because the person who hit me was mad that I wouldn’t accept our original agreement of low monthly installments. This person would brag on Facebook how they were driving on a suspended license and how they would “side swipe and rear end your ass if you were going the speed limit”. When the judge asked why they refused to pay a higher monthly installment or the balance, the person just refused…
This is where the insane stupidity comes out… The judge asked for their W2s to corroborate what they make. In court, they said, “Well, your honor I’m paid cash under the table.” The judge was dumbfounded and 2 more times the girl repeated how she was paid cash under the table. The judge scolded her and said “you just admitted in open court to breaking the law.”
So no, I never wanted that person jailed (except it was deserved when they got a DUI on that suspended license). But yes, there are some extremely stupid people and that was what I was saying.
Ok I get all that and agree it’s a very flawed system however I cant comprehend how you could put yourself in this situation.
I assume you have some notice of when your virtual appearance or at a bare minimum you are at least controlling joining the zoom meeting.
Even if you have a valid license why in the world would you appear before a judge while driving; I’m not 100% sure of the law in Michigan but I think that would be a violation in itself for distracted driving.
This is 1000% more important if you have a suspended license.
Literally just do not enter the meeting pull over and get in the passenger seat and then join the zoom.
The system really sucks and I’m sure the punishment here does not fit the crime by time you figure in the ramifications on his life but still I find it really hard to defend this guy.
You can just call this guy stupid and call it a day.
Or you can imagine a reality where traffic court has become such a joke that nobody takes it seriously anymore, and this dude legitimately thought it doesn't matter what he does, it's DWLS, charge that nobody cares about.
>bare minimum you are at least controlling joining the zoom meeting.
I'd wager defendants are sitting in the waiting room, and let into the meeting when it's their turn.
The defendant had a doctors visit in a county with practically no public transit. As a human being, one should not have to forgo healthcare because cities refuse to provide alternative means of transport.
Making cars mandatory to survive is the problem here.
Nearly all traffic/criminal courts in Southeast Michigan operate in the morning, usually starting between 8 and 9. If you are scheduled for court, you can generally expected to be there for at least an hour, sometimes 3-4 hours. Having even a simple traffic case resolved can take 2-3 hearings. For someone that has to work at 8, or has to take their kids to school, or has to go to a morning medical appointment, zooming in from the driver's seat can be the only option.
Plus, if this were Detroit, the judge would've just asked him to pull over then conducted the hearing. So it's very possible this was a highly unexpected outcome for him.
I was in court a lottt of times in the past, and it occured to me more than once that merely being able to not have to worry about my ability to show up multiple "extra" times while working out a deal was a huge benefit. So many folks get screwed because they can't miss work and just jump straight to a plea, let alone because they have shitty representation, don't own a suit, don't speaking the appropriate [dialect](https://harvardlawreview.org/print/vol-136/dialectal-due-process/), and so on.
...further, rent in Detroit should be 1/2 what it is. It's about ($1000.00 +) a month. Now that sounds great for most of America - but for Detroit folks it's a burden - because they are trapped as their income is insufficient. Is it their fault? No. The Michigan legislature prevents changes. The city of Detroit is trying to change the game but the legislator stops it.
When the rich trap the poor they call it capitalism but it's really feudalism.
I understand where you come from but at some point those with warrants and suspended licenses have to take *some* accountability. The reform from 2021 made very few offenses eligible to suspend your license. Yes we live in a very car centric state, yes it's very difficult to live without a car, don't get your license suspended then. It starts with one ticket and spirals down... Or worse it starts with not bothering to get a license.
Or not being able to afford insurance, as I noted. Even after the 2021 reforms, drivers can be -- and on a daily basis are -- suspended for failure to pay fines for driving while uninsured.
As much as I hate the Michigan no-fault scheme and wish we had tort insurance like normal states driving without insurance seems to be just acceptable. I know how expensive it is, and I know that people spend a lot of money to get basic no-fault. However those uninsured drivers just go on, cause wrecks and perpetuate the problem. Don't get me started on hit and runs either.
The solution is not to put those people in jail for unpaid tickets. The solution is for people to be given a reasonable opportunity to settle their fines for offenses they commit. Maybe we need legislation that would allow community service in lieu of fines. But then if you don't, there have to be some consequences.
Attorney here as well, I am surprised that people are just seeing these things. Its been going on since 2020. Fun one was, a controlled substance case where the defendant appeared in ZOOM court smoking with a shirt of a weed leaf
Hahahaha, that's great. I had a guy accused of DV zoom in with his victim, despite having a no contact order with her. She wanted the no contact order lifted, so it was ultimately fine, but funny for him to zoom into court while violating the no contact order.
When you're living paycheck to paycheck, most of your friends are usually in similar circumstances. That doesn't leave them with extra time to give you a ride.
Also, for some reason, Michigan courts are ALL over YouTube. They are the main “court YouTube” content. There’s a ton of really good stuff. It’s cool to see lawyers from around the country analyzing or making satire videos of the stuff that goes on.
I once showed up to my probation officer drunk...I was on probation for underage drinking.
I went to straight to jail...no one knew where I was for 2 weeks
This is way worse than that idiot on West Warren who won a $30,000.00 lottery and spent 20K of it on a gold chain. The idiot wore the chain to the same gas station the next day just to have it snatched off!
Some folks just can’t be helped (unless they really want it), I guess!
Saw this earlier and didn't realize it was Washtenaw, comedy
Me too! Fucking hilarious!
I actually watch this judge's trials often enough... You wouldn't believe how many bone-headed people show. I've seen a sovereign citizen try to argue with him, I've also seen a defendant smoke crack before his hearing on the waiting screen. I feel for this judge, lol
That man is about to be a meme.
He already is!
Lmao I see this judge on the Court Cam tv show all the time, and I want to say it’s not the first time he’s dealt with this exact situation.
Ok thank you! I swear I've seen this exact video with a different defendant before and now I know I'm not crazy.
IIRC it was the dude that didn't realize he was still on cam, rolling up and smoking a blunt in the passenger seat of a car?
I remember this one!
If you told me this was a comedy skit, I would’ve believed you. Hilarious
Become ungovernable
What does that mean
It's a joke, commonly commented under posts of racoons stealing food and whatnot
Thanks, makes sense.
More like people smoking under signs that say no smoking
The judge loves it lol
I'm a public defender in Detroit, and I've had this happen countless times. It is admittedly funny, but it's worth noting that this situation is the result of policies that lock a lot of poor (and mostly black) people into cycles of poverty and incarceration. Most people driving while unlicensed in my experience are doing so because they lost their license due to unpaid fines. They usually pick up those fines for driving without insurance. They usually drive without insurance because they can't afford Detroit's exorbitant auto insurance rates. And they keep driving illegally not for funsies but because in a state without reliable mass transit, it's the only way to get to and from work. Actions like this -- jailing someone over a nonviolent offense -- only make matters worse. This defendant will almost certainly lose his job while in jail, and if he's there more than a few days, could see his entire life collapse -- eviction and unemployment are common consequences of even brief periods of confinement for my clients. But of course, he'll still be expected to pay his court fees. And how is he going to do that other than by driving himself to work? Which will get him stopped and ticketed or arrested even more, just putting him deeper into a hole that it will take him years to escape (if he ever does).
This was actually me about 6/7 years ago. I picked up multiple suspended license tickets and had to drive to work to eventually pay off all my fines and have it reinstated. Thankfully a couple of times the police let me go or didn't arrest me; otherwise it would have been far worse.
An uninsured driver hit me going 40 when I was at a stop light in my car. Luckily, I was OK but my car was completely totaled. I was only in my early 20s and didn’t have much money, so I only had PLPD on my older car. I was able to sue for the value of the car but the person never made payments…. So I suspended their license. They drove around for 7 years. Got popped a few times and then I believe got a DUI on that suspended license. It was only then they finally reached out to me to pay off the balance. I agree that insurance rates are insane, but this guy obviously has no common sense whatsoever to be driving during his court appearance and then using the phone while driving… another broken law.
If we're going to start jailing people for lacking common sense, then we're going to need a lot more jails.
I never said to jail him?
You seemed to be defending the system that jailed him, though.
“You seemed to be” is an incorrect assumption. What I was trying to point out is how incredibly stupid people are. After the first 4 years of my accident, I had to go back to court because the person who hit me was mad that I wouldn’t accept our original agreement of low monthly installments. This person would brag on Facebook how they were driving on a suspended license and how they would “side swipe and rear end your ass if you were going the speed limit”. When the judge asked why they refused to pay a higher monthly installment or the balance, the person just refused… This is where the insane stupidity comes out… The judge asked for their W2s to corroborate what they make. In court, they said, “Well, your honor I’m paid cash under the table.” The judge was dumbfounded and 2 more times the girl repeated how she was paid cash under the table. The judge scolded her and said “you just admitted in open court to breaking the law.” So no, I never wanted that person jailed (except it was deserved when they got a DUI on that suspended license). But yes, there are some extremely stupid people and that was what I was saying.
> how incredibly stupid people are If this is your point, then you'll certainly hear no disagreement from me.
God bless you and your work. Keep it up, and keep everyone thinking.
This is so very true and sad.
Ok I get all that and agree it’s a very flawed system however I cant comprehend how you could put yourself in this situation. I assume you have some notice of when your virtual appearance or at a bare minimum you are at least controlling joining the zoom meeting. Even if you have a valid license why in the world would you appear before a judge while driving; I’m not 100% sure of the law in Michigan but I think that would be a violation in itself for distracted driving. This is 1000% more important if you have a suspended license. Literally just do not enter the meeting pull over and get in the passenger seat and then join the zoom. The system really sucks and I’m sure the punishment here does not fit the crime by time you figure in the ramifications on his life but still I find it really hard to defend this guy.
You can just call this guy stupid and call it a day. Or you can imagine a reality where traffic court has become such a joke that nobody takes it seriously anymore, and this dude legitimately thought it doesn't matter what he does, it's DWLS, charge that nobody cares about.
>bare minimum you are at least controlling joining the zoom meeting. I'd wager defendants are sitting in the waiting room, and let into the meeting when it's their turn.
The defendant had a doctors visit in a county with practically no public transit. As a human being, one should not have to forgo healthcare because cities refuse to provide alternative means of transport. Making cars mandatory to survive is the problem here.
Nearly all traffic/criminal courts in Southeast Michigan operate in the morning, usually starting between 8 and 9. If you are scheduled for court, you can generally expected to be there for at least an hour, sometimes 3-4 hours. Having even a simple traffic case resolved can take 2-3 hearings. For someone that has to work at 8, or has to take their kids to school, or has to go to a morning medical appointment, zooming in from the driver's seat can be the only option. Plus, if this were Detroit, the judge would've just asked him to pull over then conducted the hearing. So it's very possible this was a highly unexpected outcome for him.
I was in court a lottt of times in the past, and it occured to me more than once that merely being able to not have to worry about my ability to show up multiple "extra" times while working out a deal was a huge benefit. So many folks get screwed because they can't miss work and just jump straight to a plea, let alone because they have shitty representation, don't own a suit, don't speaking the appropriate [dialect](https://harvardlawreview.org/print/vol-136/dialectal-due-process/), and so on.
I’ve had many a misdemeanor case plea out when I thought I could win but my client couldn’t afford to return for multiple hearings.
This is the post. Excellent words. Will be sharing this.
...further, rent in Detroit should be 1/2 what it is. It's about ($1000.00 +) a month. Now that sounds great for most of America - but for Detroit folks it's a burden - because they are trapped as their income is insufficient. Is it their fault? No. The Michigan legislature prevents changes. The city of Detroit is trying to change the game but the legislator stops it. When the rich trap the poor they call it capitalism but it's really feudalism.
I understand where you come from but at some point those with warrants and suspended licenses have to take *some* accountability. The reform from 2021 made very few offenses eligible to suspend your license. Yes we live in a very car centric state, yes it's very difficult to live without a car, don't get your license suspended then. It starts with one ticket and spirals down... Or worse it starts with not bothering to get a license.
Or not being able to afford insurance, as I noted. Even after the 2021 reforms, drivers can be -- and on a daily basis are -- suspended for failure to pay fines for driving while uninsured.
As much as I hate the Michigan no-fault scheme and wish we had tort insurance like normal states driving without insurance seems to be just acceptable. I know how expensive it is, and I know that people spend a lot of money to get basic no-fault. However those uninsured drivers just go on, cause wrecks and perpetuate the problem. Don't get me started on hit and runs either. The solution is not to put those people in jail for unpaid tickets. The solution is for people to be given a reasonable opportunity to settle their fines for offenses they commit. Maybe we need legislation that would allow community service in lieu of fines. But then if you don't, there have to be some consequences.
Attorney here as well, I am surprised that people are just seeing these things. Its been going on since 2020. Fun one was, a controlled substance case where the defendant appeared in ZOOM court smoking with a shirt of a weed leaf
Hahahaha, that's great. I had a guy accused of DV zoom in with his victim, despite having a no contact order with her. She wanted the no contact order lifted, so it was ultimately fine, but funny for him to zoom into court while violating the no contact order.
I remember seeing that video. It would be hilarious if the whole situation wasn’t sad and dangerous.
Great write-up
I do understand but couldn’t he have someone else drive him?
When you're living paycheck to paycheck, most of your friends are usually in similar circumstances. That doesn't leave them with extra time to give you a ride.
The person with a car who can’t drive because of a suspended license could perhaps find someone to drive their car and they could be a passenger.
You he had his bond revoked and had to report by 6pm to downtown Ann Arbor.
Man this is hilarious, sad, and trashy all at the same time lmfao
Also, for some reason, Michigan courts are ALL over YouTube. They are the main “court YouTube” content. There’s a ton of really good stuff. It’s cool to see lawyers from around the country analyzing or making satire videos of the stuff that goes on.
[удалено]
Bruh his face and the way he goes "uuuh." As the judge is putting it all together is fucking hilarious
I love it when someone's actions scream "Leeeeerooooy Jenkins" IRL.
Stupid is as stupid does.
"Uh"
This is like a bad SNL skit lol
I once showed up to my probation officer drunk...I was on probation for underage drinking. I went to straight to jail...no one knew where I was for 2 weeks
What do they expect with zoom court.
This is way worse than that idiot on West Warren who won a $30,000.00 lottery and spent 20K of it on a gold chain. The idiot wore the chain to the same gas station the next day just to have it snatched off! Some folks just can’t be helped (unless they really want it), I guess!
God we have some stupid mother fuckers in this county
Not even in metro detroit.