Bless you for writing out the IPA. Life would be so much easier if everyone used that instead of trying to write things out "phonetically" in their language
It is a bit odd trying to read it in English. I was trying to think of some other 'sc's. Scientist, school, rascal, prescient, scent, scandal, scenic, scream, episcopalian. So the pronounciation depends on the letters that come after the 'sc'. Followed by an 'e' I've got scent and scenic. Seh and See. So I would have to pronounce it either pes eh or pes ee.
Never underestimate the English native's inability to speak other languages. Point in case, there is currently a clothing brand who are advertising here. Giacomo, you'd think, wouldn't cause too many problems for us. The clothing brand has gone with Jackomo because they realised that half of us would pronounce Giacomo as gee a como.
You missed pescatarian in your first list, which would probably inform the pronunciation of a significant number of people since it's pretty clear they share the same root.
I know enough Italian to know how "pesce rosso" is supposed to be pronounced, but if I didn't, I'd think "peske" based on the above
Yeah thats what I was worried about, though I'll need to think about how well it works regardless! I'm guilty of poorly pronouncing brands myself, though I think being taught French at school certainly helped with a lot of brands lol since romance languages (except romanian) follow similar rules
lol, I was reading that as gee-ah-como. 😂
All those instances of “sc” in the words you gave as examples are pronounced as an s sound when the c is followed by either an e or i, and they get the s plus hard c sound when the c is followed by any other letter. Also, I believe the saying is “case in point.”
To be fair, when your education doesn’t include a basic level of pronunciation of foreign languages, it’s a little difficult to guess how it’s pronounced.
Probably Pesh-ee, but if I didn't know he was Italian I'd've definitely thought pesk-ee (aka pesky) first.
But I cry at how my name is pronounced 80% of the time and it is a very English pronunciation and origin from what I can tell. Internationally I'm impressed when others pronounce my name any close to the real pronunciation, besides the fact that when pronounced wrong it makes my family sound horrible (imagine if "houghible" were your last name and it was actually pronounced "hoff-ible" but people pronounced it "horrible".
Pronouncing Italian as classical Latin is certainly something I, a native English speaker who has studied German, Greek, and Ukrainian, would do, seeing as I kind of devolve to Latinate pronunciation for words in languages I don't know, for no real reason. I'm sure I'm a laugh riot when I try to pronounce French.
It's Italian for red fish, yes. The "sc" in Italian makes more of a "sh" when followed by an e or an I, so it's more "peshay." When a mafia guy says "capeesh" in a movie, it's "capisce" (technically pronounced ca-pee-shay, but they just cut off the final vowel sound).
Yes, I know what IPA is because I'm a professional singer and I had to study it in university. Most people don't. They spell things out phonetically, which is actually easier for the general public to understand. To the general public, IPA is a bunch of meaningless squiggles.
sometimes it's easier, sometimes it creates unresolvable ambiguity. Fauxnetics is good for when something is true for most accents, like "hate is pronounced hey+t" but bad for getting an accurate assessment of how something is actually pronounced between different accents. People often type things that make sense in their accent that don't make sense in most other accents.
This is a random person on the internet asking other random people on the internet how they would pronounce something upon seeing it for the first time. This is not a linguist asking other linguists. These are random people, not experts in IPA. They are not going to use IPA because most of them do not know or understand it. Move along.
You miss my point. Frequently someone who doesn't speak English as a first language asks how to pronounce something and native speakers are arguing about the pronunciation because they lack the ability to accurately describe the difference. Like when a British person describes something using er to mean shwa or someone describes the sound made by o as ah, while I'd describe it as aw, and others again will disagree.
My point is that they both can be useful, especially when used together. Rhyming or reference to other words can help bridge the gap I'm talking about a bit, but we shouldn't forget that without using IPA this gap of indescribability will always exist.
Some might get it close to the Italian pronunciation, others won't. Take for example jacuzzi. Most English native speakers will pronounce it "ja-koo-zi" when it should actually be "Ya-koot-see". As long as you are OK with that you'll be fine. If I had a euro for every time I hear an Italian advert talking about "froo-it joo-is" instead of "fruit juice" I'd not be worried about my pension, and as for poor Tom "crew-is" well... Not to mention how words and phrases get taken and used differently - like for many years jogging was called "footing" in Italy, and in the UK al fresco is used for eating outdoors, and not being in prison like in many parts of Italy... It's all fun.
I read it ja-koo-zi in my head reading your comment lmao. It's true, I am chill with people pronouncing wrong, I think my own fantasy is getting ahead of me where I'd ever hear someone say the name back to me
There can be a fine line between pretentious insistence, genuine attempt, and offensive over-pronunciation, so it depends.
If I'm in a generic local, casual family restaurant, I might say "pesk-ə rohs-so" as that is how the words are usually pronounced in the area I live in (like "pescetarian"). If I'm in a more "authentically" Italian restaurant or somewhere more upscale, I'd go with a more Italian "pesche". I would never attempt to roll that R or change any stresses unless I was traveling in Italy and genuinely trying to speak Italian.
does it mean red fish by any chance?
my immediate thought is italian, "pes-ke ro-so" with a kind of trilled R in rosso.
another way I can imagine it pronounced is kind of portuguese-ish, with a softened S in pesce, like "peshke"
In both cases, the first "o" in rosso is short like in "ross", not like in "rose", and the second "o" is long like "oh"
either way, don't worry about how people pronounce stuff in their head, everyone still gets Nike wrong and it didn't hurt their business :p
Lol true, Nike are doing just fine!
It does literally mean red fish, but the actual translation from italian is goldfish. You kinda got all the elements but mixed up - the 'sc' is like a shh so it's 'pesh-eh' (like the e in peg), and the rosso has two short 'o's
> Without knowing which language the words are from . . .
I could tell straight away that it's Italian, and I pronounced it in my mind accordingly. I have a basic understanding of Italian phonology and spelling, so I have a pretty good idea of how to pronounce it in Italian even without looking it up.
I am not gloating or anything, just pointing out that some English speakers would know what language it's from and have a rough idea of how it should be pronounced in that sense.
With that said, many English speakers aren't familiar with Italian at all and they might not have a clear understanding of how it's pronounced. I've seen Anglophones look at Italian names with the letters and pronounce it like the in "cheese", for example, which is definitely incorrect in Italian.
But still, even if you are familiar with Italian as a native English speaker, you might not pronounce it in exactly the same way as it is in Italian. For example, most English speakers probably wouldn't use a double -ss- sound like in "rosso," instead they would use a single -s- sound, almost as though it were spelled "roso." This is because we don't really have those kind of doubled (or "geminated") consonants in English like you do in Italian, and some English speakers struggle to pronounce them correctly when they speak Italian or Japanese which have geminated consonants.
So, some people are familiar enough with Italian to be able to pronounce an Italian word closely to the way an Italian would say it, but not in exactly the same way as a native Italian. This is assuming that you don't really speak Italian even though you have a basic understanding of the phonology and spelling. We would definitely anglicize the pronunciation to some extent if we're speaking to other native English speakers, like the fact that we don't tend to really pronounce the doubled or geminated consonants in Italian. Other people who aren't familiar with Italian might pronounce it differently at first, since they're going off of their intuition which might not line up with the original Italian pronunciations.
Quite a few, apparently.
In English the CE and CI/CY letter combination is usually pronounced as an S sound (I can’t actually think of an exception offhand). So am not sure why so many people are inclined to break that “rule”
English speakers are terrible with Italian though. They know Gucci is pronounced Gucci but they don’t apply that rule consistently. And they see a CH in Italian and pronounce the same as a CC (applying English pronunciation even though they know better!)
I guess they just expect that most languages have inconsistent spelling like English does, so you can just take your best guess at pronunciation like in English
In this case
pesce ends with a vowel, and an e nonetheless (e triggers long vowel realization). But if the vowel were to be long, there'd be no need for both s and c. This makes people think maybe the s ends the first syllable and the second is kee /ki/ like pesky. In any case, it is intuitively obvious that this doesn't follow normal pronunciation rules for English, so people are trying to guess it with that in mind.
A number of the closer to correct responses are probably based on Joe Pesci's last name.
We don’t really have words ending with that sound in English though so it’s expected to find the next closest thing
We *do* have the SH sound so usually it just takes one correction to get that sound right. But the terminal vowel is asking too much
you wrote it fine, that's how a native English speaker would pronounce it if they started learning italian. Our short e [ɛ] as in get would be closer, or the a [e̞] in dare, but these can't end words, so we often say ay [ej] instead for Spanish and Italian words with e at the end.
I'm much more primed for Spanish rules than I am Italian ones. "Pesce" reminds me of Spanish "pesca", English "fresco", or San "Francisco" before I think of any alternative pronunciation. Maybe even "disco".
I'm sure "pesce" is following a different rule that delineates it from another Italian word like "affrescare" where the C *is* pronounced, but it's not obvious at all to English-speakers unfamiliar with Italian.
Possibly the same people as those who order "brooshetta" in Italian restaurants.
The sequence is not one that is too familiar to English-speakers, but people will have encountered "crescendo". English-speakers won't necessarily know that Italian pronunciation is highly regular and that before is always pronounced "sh".
My first thought is to pronounce it like \[pess-seh ross-oh\], but that's without having seen the term before. Having looked it up now, I'd say it as it's said
So, generally, we try to pronounce terms stolen from other languages for the purposes of jargon as similarly to the source language's pronunciation.
So when I'm talking about the song "dos oruguitas," I try to pronounce it the way a native Latin American would say it: "dohss oh-ŕoo-gee-tahss."
But if I'm using a borrowed phrase from popular culture or a word that English has adopted, or a Latin expression, I pronounce it more or less according to English rules but sometimes observing some ideosyncracies of the origin language:
"That's no bueno" - "thaats noh bway-noh" vs "noh ɓweh-noh"
"bureau" - byur-oh vs the specific french pronunciation (don't know french)
"E pluribus unun" - "ee plur-ih-buhss oo-nuhm" vs "eh pluh-ŕih-buuss uh-nuhm"
"Bona fide" - "boh-nuh fied" vs "boh-nah fee-deh"
"Veni, vidi, vici" - "veh-nee, vih-dee, vee-chee" vs "weh-nee, wih-dee, wee-kee"
The first phrase is how it's written, the second phrase is how I pronounce it, and the third is closer to how it was actually pronounced in the source language.
The ɓ is the spanish "b"/"v" sound, and ŕ is the ~~dento-labio trill~~ voiced alveolar tap.
The hell's a dento-labio tril? Spanish's trill is alveolar and Latin's depends on the dialect but it's either alveolar or uvular. But the Spanish sound in oruguitas is not even a trill is a tap.
Ugh! Sorry, you're right. I should have checked the chart. I'm still learning and studying IPA, so I can talk about these things using the same standards as other linguists, and I goofed there.
Thanks for pointing that out.
>So, generally, we try to pronounce terms stolen from other languages for the purposes of jargon as similarly to the source language's pronunciation.
This depends on the type of English. In British English we tend to pronounce it according to British English sounds. So the best example is fillet. In British English we would say fill it. Also the country Chilie we would pronounce like chilly.
I think that most Americans have enough spanish exposure thay they naturally try to say it as close to "pescado rojo" as they can even if subconsciously.
I would say "pay-shay row-sow" with a rolled "r". But that's because I know some Spanish and I'd try to fit it to that.
I could see pronouncing it "peshy raw-sow" if I weren't trying to give it a European flair.
I'd guess italian but i don't know how to speak italian.
I'd pronounce it like this:
pes-kay row-so
pes like in pest
kay like in okay
row as in row your boat
so as in the word so
I'm from the southwest US, I would say "pesska rah-so" which kinda blends Spanish and English. I grew up reading rodeo as "ro-Day-oh" instead of "Ro-dee-oh" unless there were horses and cattle involved.
I would say “pesh-ie rah-so” if that makes sense. Most English speakers are passively familiar with some Spanish/french/italian words from random words and companies etc. It’s obviously not English so my initial reaction wouldn’t be to sound it out as an English word, but to think of the closest word I’ve seen or heard in another language and go from there.
Without knowing anything about it, I’d say “peshey rossoh” and be reasonably convinced that I’d put too much diphthong on the end of both words. (For comparison, I also say “pee-no gree-joe” with deliberately humorous/offensive diphthongs, since I think that’s probably better than a more subtle mispronunciation which might sound like I think I know what I’m doing.)
I'm assuming Italian, but I dont actually speak it. I do have experience with Latin, though, and I speak some Spanish and French.
I'd pronounce it /pess/-kuh /roh/-soh, flipping the r a little and with the o having a sound between "oh" and "uh"
Like pesc (as in pescado) + é (like how it’s pronounced in French). Then Row (with Spanish single r sound) + soh. I think this is probably very incorrect though. Sorry, Italians 😔
The Italian way
Yep. pɛʃɛ ˈrɔsːɔ “sc” like English “sh”
Bless you for writing out the IPA. Life would be so much easier if everyone used that instead of trying to write things out "phonetically" in their language
You betcha.
It is a bit odd trying to read it in English. I was trying to think of some other 'sc's. Scientist, school, rascal, prescient, scent, scandal, scenic, scream, episcopalian. So the pronounciation depends on the letters that come after the 'sc'. Followed by an 'e' I've got scent and scenic. Seh and See. So I would have to pronounce it either pes eh or pes ee. Never underestimate the English native's inability to speak other languages. Point in case, there is currently a clothing brand who are advertising here. Giacomo, you'd think, wouldn't cause too many problems for us. The clothing brand has gone with Jackomo because they realised that half of us would pronounce Giacomo as gee a como.
You missed pescatarian in your first list, which would probably inform the pronunciation of a significant number of people since it's pretty clear they share the same root. I know enough Italian to know how "pesce rosso" is supposed to be pronounced, but if I didn't, I'd think "peske" based on the above
[Case in point](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/case%20in%20point).
You’ve gotta prime the audience by showing them a little Pesci or Buscemi beforehand
Yeah thats what I was worried about, though I'll need to think about how well it works regardless! I'm guilty of poorly pronouncing brands myself, though I think being taught French at school certainly helped with a lot of brands lol since romance languages (except romanian) follow similar rules
lol, I was reading that as gee-ah-como. 😂 All those instances of “sc” in the words you gave as examples are pronounced as an s sound when the c is followed by either an e or i, and they get the s plus hard c sound when the c is followed by any other letter. Also, I believe the saying is “case in point.”
It is "case in point" lol. Never underestimate the English native's inability to speak their own language.
To be fair, when your education doesn’t include a basic level of pronunciation of foreign languages, it’s a little difficult to guess how it’s pronounced.
Peshay ross-o
Same
Pesh-eh ross-o
Pesce(as in pescetarian) Ross-oh
Pesh-ey Rohsso
Same
PESS-kay ROSS-o (Does it mean Red Fish?)
*cries in Italian* Joe Pesci wouldn't like the way you say his name.
Tbh, he probably would still hate the way I would say it....... But I would definitely pronounce Pesci differently than Pesce.
...but hopefully not as "pesky", which was what I was getting at.
Probably Pesh-ee, but if I didn't know he was Italian I'd've definitely thought pesk-ee (aka pesky) first. But I cry at how my name is pronounced 80% of the time and it is a very English pronunciation and origin from what I can tell. Internationally I'm impressed when others pronounce my name any close to the real pronunciation, besides the fact that when pronounced wrong it makes my family sound horrible (imagine if "houghible" were your last name and it was actually pronounced "hoff-ible" but people pronounced it "horrible".
I mean tkdch4mp is pretty hard to pronounce, give em a break.
If you weren't non-rhotic, it might not be so hoe-able. Rich ground for mistakes, there.
[удалено]
Yeah but *sci* is pronounced "shi"
> ci in Italian is said like chi Yes. which is why his name is said like that No. *sci* is pronounced (roughly) like English "she".
You shouldn't. Pesci is the plural of pesce
I'm sure he wouldn't
Pronouncing Italian as classical Latin is certainly something I, a native English speaker who has studied German, Greek, and Ukrainian, would do, seeing as I kind of devolve to Latinate pronunciation for words in languages I don't know, for no real reason. I'm sure I'm a laugh riot when I try to pronounce French.
No I do the same
Glad I'm not the only one who used his name as a guideline in this scenario
Yes but sc is not sh in english very often so i don’t know what you expect
"Pesce rosso" and "Pesci" are Italian, so I would expect a pronunciation something like the Italian.
It's Italian for red fish, yes. The "sc" in Italian makes more of a "sh" when followed by an e or an I, so it's more "peshay." When a mafia guy says "capeesh" in a movie, it's "capisce" (technically pronounced ca-pee-shay, but they just cut off the final vowel sound).
Yes, I have been told off enough to know that my guess is over-influenced by five years of Latin compared to perhaps 40 minutes of Italian.
If only it was 40 minutes. 6 years in public school, 2 semesters in college, and lifetime in an Italian American family
I think it means goldfish, actually. At least in French it is literally "red fish".
idk why you're getting downvoted, it does mean "goldfish" in Italian.
We thought he meant 'Pesce rosso is 'red fish' in French', not 'The French for goldfish translates as 'red fish''
ohh okay, I see that now. Thanks for explaining! :)
Keep up.
It’s hard to follow when someone throws you a red herring.
Surely in Italian - in French it would be 'poisson rouge'.
That's what I meant.
I’d say “pesh-uh” rhyming with Ke$ha (the singer) And rosso like roh-soh, like “osso” in “osso buco” but with a little more o on the first Syllable
Peshe roso
pesky ross-oh (knowing full well I'm probably wrong)
Me, an Italian, looking at these replies: 👁️👄👁️
As someone who has studied Italian, same. I don't remember that many words but I can still read it pretty well.
It's /ˈpeʃ.ʃe/ and /ˈros.so/ btw. use the IPA
Yeah cuz everyone and their mom takes linguistics courses to learn to read IPA duh /s
Phonetics is easier for most people to understand.
That is phonetics: it uses the International Phonetic Alphabet. But I agree with your point.
Yes, I know what IPA is because I'm a professional singer and I had to study it in university. Most people don't. They spell things out phonetically, which is actually easier for the general public to understand. To the general public, IPA is a bunch of meaningless squiggles.
sometimes it's easier, sometimes it creates unresolvable ambiguity. Fauxnetics is good for when something is true for most accents, like "hate is pronounced hey+t" but bad for getting an accurate assessment of how something is actually pronounced between different accents. People often type things that make sense in their accent that don't make sense in most other accents.
This is a random person on the internet asking other random people on the internet how they would pronounce something upon seeing it for the first time. This is not a linguist asking other linguists. These are random people, not experts in IPA. They are not going to use IPA because most of them do not know or understand it. Move along.
You miss my point. Frequently someone who doesn't speak English as a first language asks how to pronounce something and native speakers are arguing about the pronunciation because they lack the ability to accurately describe the difference. Like when a British person describes something using er to mean shwa or someone describes the sound made by o as ah, while I'd describe it as aw, and others again will disagree. My point is that they both can be useful, especially when used together. Rhyming or reference to other words can help bridge the gap I'm talking about a bit, but we shouldn't forget that without using IPA this gap of indescribability will always exist.
Peshkey rosso
Some might get it close to the Italian pronunciation, others won't. Take for example jacuzzi. Most English native speakers will pronounce it "ja-koo-zi" when it should actually be "Ya-koot-see". As long as you are OK with that you'll be fine. If I had a euro for every time I hear an Italian advert talking about "froo-it joo-is" instead of "fruit juice" I'd not be worried about my pension, and as for poor Tom "crew-is" well... Not to mention how words and phrases get taken and used differently - like for many years jogging was called "footing" in Italy, and in the UK al fresco is used for eating outdoors, and not being in prison like in many parts of Italy... It's all fun.
I read it ja-koo-zi in my head reading your comment lmao. It's true, I am chill with people pronouncing wrong, I think my own fantasy is getting ahead of me where I'd ever hear someone say the name back to me
pesk-ay roh-ssoh
Yeah, east shore girl here.
There can be a fine line between pretentious insistence, genuine attempt, and offensive over-pronunciation, so it depends. If I'm in a generic local, casual family restaurant, I might say "pesk-ə rohs-so" as that is how the words are usually pronounced in the area I live in (like "pescetarian"). If I'm in a more "authentically" Italian restaurant or somewhere more upscale, I'd go with a more Italian "pesche". I would never attempt to roll that R or change any stresses unless I was traveling in Italy and genuinely trying to speak Italian.
does it mean red fish by any chance? my immediate thought is italian, "pes-ke ro-so" with a kind of trilled R in rosso. another way I can imagine it pronounced is kind of portuguese-ish, with a softened S in pesce, like "peshke" In both cases, the first "o" in rosso is short like in "ross", not like in "rose", and the second "o" is long like "oh" either way, don't worry about how people pronounce stuff in their head, everyone still gets Nike wrong and it didn't hurt their business :p
Lol true, Nike are doing just fine! It does literally mean red fish, but the actual translation from italian is goldfish. You kinda got all the elements but mixed up - the 'sc' is like a shh so it's 'pesh-eh' (like the e in peg), and the rosso has two short 'o's
Peshay, not peske. Italian only has a hard K sound after a "ch"
It delends on the following vowel, the letters that make a K sound in italian are: ca, che, chi, co, cu
Well, yes. What I meant was not "ce" :-)
> Without knowing which language the words are from . . . I could tell straight away that it's Italian, and I pronounced it in my mind accordingly. I have a basic understanding of Italian phonology and spelling, so I have a pretty good idea of how to pronounce it in Italian even without looking it up. I am not gloating or anything, just pointing out that some English speakers would know what language it's from and have a rough idea of how it should be pronounced in that sense. With that said, many English speakers aren't familiar with Italian at all and they might not have a clear understanding of how it's pronounced. I've seen Anglophones look at Italian names with the letters and pronounce it like the in "cheese", for example, which is definitely incorrect in Italian.
But still, even if you are familiar with Italian as a native English speaker, you might not pronounce it in exactly the same way as it is in Italian. For example, most English speakers probably wouldn't use a double -ss- sound like in "rosso," instead they would use a single -s- sound, almost as though it were spelled "roso." This is because we don't really have those kind of doubled (or "geminated") consonants in English like you do in Italian, and some English speakers struggle to pronounce them correctly when they speak Italian or Japanese which have geminated consonants.
So, some people are familiar enough with Italian to be able to pronounce an Italian word closely to the way an Italian would say it, but not in exactly the same way as a native Italian. This is assuming that you don't really speak Italian even though you have a basic understanding of the phonology and spelling. We would definitely anglicize the pronunciation to some extent if we're speaking to other native English speakers, like the fact that we don't tend to really pronounce the doubled or geminated consonants in Italian. Other people who aren't familiar with Italian might pronounce it differently at first, since they're going off of their intuition which might not line up with the original Italian pronunciations.
Since I am fluent in Italian apart from English I know how to pronounce 'pesce rosso' = red fish. It reads as peshe rosso
Why are commenters putting a hard c or k noise? This is Italian for “red fish” and it’s pronounced something like “peh-shay rohs-so”
It’s most likely because all of us don’t speak Italian.
Yeah, makes sense.
That's exactly why I asked here, because with zero Italian knowledge I wondered how many people would use a hard c sound
Quite a few, apparently. In English the CE and CI/CY letter combination is usually pronounced as an S sound (I can’t actually think of an exception offhand). So am not sure why so many people are inclined to break that “rule” English speakers are terrible with Italian though. They know Gucci is pronounced Gucci but they don’t apply that rule consistently. And they see a CH in Italian and pronounce the same as a CC (applying English pronunciation even though they know better!) I guess they just expect that most languages have inconsistent spelling like English does, so you can just take your best guess at pronunciation like in English
In this case pesce ends with a vowel, and an e nonetheless (e triggers long vowel realization). But if the vowel were to be long, there'd be no need for both s and c. This makes people think maybe the s ends the first syllable and the second is kee /ki/ like pesky. In any case, it is intuitively obvious that this doesn't follow normal pronunciation rules for English, so people are trying to guess it with that in mind. A number of the closer to correct responses are probably based on Joe Pesci's last name.
Because I studied Latin for much longer than I studied Italian.
Ah!
OP asked how a Native English speaker who has never seen pesce rosso would pronounce it, not what the correct Italian pronunciation would be.
It’s not a shay sound is more like sheh
We don’t really have words ending with that sound in English though so it’s expected to find the next closest thing We *do* have the SH sound so usually it just takes one correction to get that sound right. But the terminal vowel is asking too much
I wasn’t sure how to write it.
you wrote it fine, that's how a native English speaker would pronounce it if they started learning italian. Our short e [ɛ] as in get would be closer, or the a [e̞] in dare, but these can't end words, so we often say ay [ej] instead for Spanish and Italian words with e at the end.
I'm much more primed for Spanish rules than I am Italian ones. "Pesce" reminds me of Spanish "pesca", English "fresco", or San "Francisco" before I think of any alternative pronunciation. Maybe even "disco". I'm sure "pesce" is following a different rule that delineates it from another Italian word like "affrescare" where the C *is* pronounced, but it's not obvious at all to English-speakers unfamiliar with Italian.
Yeah - I forget that Italian was spoken in my home when I was a kid.
Possibly the same people as those who order "brooshetta" in Italian restaurants. The sequence is not one that is too familiar to English-speakers, but people will have encountered "crescendo". English-speakers won't necessarily know that Italian pronunciation is highly regular and that before is always pronounced "sh".
Because soft C's should be illegal
My first thought is to pronounce it like \[pess-seh ross-oh\], but that's without having seen the term before. Having looked it up now, I'd say it as it's said
So, generally, we try to pronounce terms stolen from other languages for the purposes of jargon as similarly to the source language's pronunciation. So when I'm talking about the song "dos oruguitas," I try to pronounce it the way a native Latin American would say it: "dohss oh-ŕoo-gee-tahss." But if I'm using a borrowed phrase from popular culture or a word that English has adopted, or a Latin expression, I pronounce it more or less according to English rules but sometimes observing some ideosyncracies of the origin language: "That's no bueno" - "thaats noh bway-noh" vs "noh ɓweh-noh" "bureau" - byur-oh vs the specific french pronunciation (don't know french) "E pluribus unun" - "ee plur-ih-buhss oo-nuhm" vs "eh pluh-ŕih-buuss uh-nuhm" "Bona fide" - "boh-nuh fied" vs "boh-nah fee-deh" "Veni, vidi, vici" - "veh-nee, vih-dee, vee-chee" vs "weh-nee, wih-dee, wee-kee" The first phrase is how it's written, the second phrase is how I pronounce it, and the third is closer to how it was actually pronounced in the source language. The ɓ is the spanish "b"/"v" sound, and ŕ is the ~~dento-labio trill~~ voiced alveolar tap.
The hell's a dento-labio tril? Spanish's trill is alveolar and Latin's depends on the dialect but it's either alveolar or uvular. But the Spanish sound in oruguitas is not even a trill is a tap.
Ugh! Sorry, you're right. I should have checked the chart. I'm still learning and studying IPA, so I can talk about these things using the same standards as other linguists, and I goofed there. Thanks for pointing that out.
>So, generally, we try to pronounce terms stolen from other languages for the purposes of jargon as similarly to the source language's pronunciation. This depends on the type of English. In British English we tend to pronounce it according to British English sounds. So the best example is fillet. In British English we would say fill it. Also the country Chilie we would pronounce like chilly.
‘Pe’ as in ‘pet’, ‘sce’ as in ‘skin’, ‘ro’ as in ‘rock’, ‘sso’ as in ‘so’
Res-kay Rawss-oh
Pes-kay
Rawss is a new one!
I think that's just a very American rendering from somewhere with the cot-caught merger.
Pes-se ros-so. I'm sure I'm butchering the Italian, but hopefully not as badly as some others.
Looks like you're going to have to do it, as that seems to be causing a lot of confusion.
peh-sey rohs-so
Pes-kay Roh-so
I think you will get a lot of variety in English pronunciations. Some people will try Italian rules, others French, others just English.
I'm mostly surprised by how many people are pronouncing the "ro" like row (a boat) instead of like in pot
Just a thought - probably because the letter O in the alphabet is pronounced like in the words "go" and "no".
I got that bit right because of the F1 team (Actually I would check that your new Thing isn't going to tread on Toro Rosso's toes in anyway)
I think that most Americans have enough spanish exposure thay they naturally try to say it as close to "pescado rojo" as they can even if subconsciously.
This is like asking a fish how to walk. I don’t know. PEH-shay ROH-soh? PEH-shee ROSS-oh?
Honestly you're not far off
I would say "pay-shay row-sow" with a rolled "r". But that's because I know some Spanish and I'd try to fit it to that. I could see pronouncing it "peshy raw-sow" if I weren't trying to give it a European flair.
The non European flair felt painful to read and I'm English xD it's useful to know though!
Pesky ross-o.
too bad ik what language it is, idek how id say that beforehand 🥲
Pes-kay row-so
PESH-ay ROE-so
Close! You're one of the first to get pesh, but the Ross is like ross the name rather than rose
Yes, but I'm using an American accent.
I'd guess italian but i don't know how to speak italian. I'd pronounce it like this: pes-kay row-so pes like in pest kay like in okay row as in row your boat so as in the word so
Pesk-eh Ro-sow. Looks like pink fish (Based on French, Portuguese, Spanish, & Italian)
I'm from the southwest US, I would say "pesska rah-so" which kinda blends Spanish and English. I grew up reading rodeo as "ro-Day-oh" instead of "Ro-dee-oh" unless there were horses and cattle involved.
Red fish
Peace Roz-zoh
pech-ay row-so
My brain is saying peh-shay row-so.
I would say “pesh-ie rah-so” if that makes sense. Most English speakers are passively familiar with some Spanish/french/italian words from random words and companies etc. It’s obviously not English so my initial reaction wouldn’t be to sound it out as an English word, but to think of the closest word I’ve seen or heard in another language and go from there.
Peh-SHEH ROH'so
I'd guess peshy ross-o but I'd probably always say it as pesky ross-o
Peh-SHEH -raw-SO
For some reason I want to say PESH-eh. And ROSS-oh, of course.
pes-kay ross-oh
PESH-ee ROSS-oh
My first thought was using Spanish and going pes-kay ross-o…
Pesh-ee Ross-oh
Without knowing anything about it, I’d say “peshey rossoh” and be reasonably convinced that I’d put too much diphthong on the end of both words. (For comparison, I also say “pee-no gree-joe” with deliberately humorous/offensive diphthongs, since I think that’s probably better than a more subtle mispronunciation which might sound like I think I know what I’m doing.)
I'm assuming Italian, but I dont actually speak it. I do have experience with Latin, though, and I speak some Spanish and French. I'd pronounce it /pess/-kuh /roh/-soh, flipping the r a little and with the o having a sound between "oh" and "uh"
Pese roso
"peshe rohssoh", but I know Italian, so idk if that disqualifies me 😂
You add to the statistic of English speakers that know Italian 😆 all useful data ;)
Either “pess-kay raw-soh” or “pess-say raw-soh”.
Easy peasy! Pesce. Like Joe Pesci. Rosso like the F1 team torro rosso. Red bull.
Pess kay ross oh
Pess-eh ross-oh Pess rhymes with mess. Eh like the letter A. Ross rhymes with boss. Oh like the letter O.
"That one" and point at it on the menu
It’s hard for me to not pronounce it as Italian, but if I were to put on my best American-English accent, I’d pronounce it like “Pesky Ross-Oh”.
Pessay - rhymes with essay Roe - fish eggs Sew - with a needle
I can see it two ways 1) Pesh Roe-so 1) Pes-keh Roe-so
i would say pez-kay raws-so. but i wouldn't be confident.
Like pesc (as in pescado) + é (like how it’s pronounced in French). Then Row (with Spanish single r sound) + soh. I think this is probably very incorrect though. Sorry, Italians 😔
Pes-ke Rosso
At first I thought "Pe-sky Roh-so" and then guessed "Pe-shy Roh-so"
Peh-shay row-so.
Peh-sheh roh-soh with a rolled r would be my attempt.
peshe rosso
I would assume either pess-say Ross-oh or pess-chay ross-oh
Like Joe Pesci 😂
pehs-ke rohs-soh
I don't know what language this is from, so that could be a good or bad thing. Pe-say ro-so.
Pesh-EE row-SOH
peshy rosso /pɛʃi rɑsoʊ/
Pess-kay ross-oh. I love to butcher foreign languages. Does the brand name have anything to do with red fish? I’m a big snapper fan, personally.
Peskay Rossow
Pesh-ey russo
Pes cay row so
My first impulse is that pesce with a k sound like in classical Latin if there is no other context. I would probably be wrong.
Something like "Pess-kay Ross-o".
Hopefully it's not a person's name, because being named "Gold Fish" is a clear route to being tortured in elementary school.
Pes-Kay Row-So
Pes-chay row-so, personally.
𐑐𐑧𐑕𐑒𐑧 𐑮𐑴𐑕𐑴
I read it peace rosso as it's written.
Pess-kay Ross-so
Looks Italian. I have no knowledge of Italian pronunciation, so I’d probably say “pes-ke ross-o”.
If I had to guess, pesky row-so. Or maybe pes-kay rah-so.
looking at it im assuming its italian so i think it would be peh-shay . rohe-so (i couldnt really recreate the rosso sound in phonetics)
Pesskay Row-So
I would guess something close to *PEH-sheh ROH-soh.* Is that close at all?
Pesskay rowso, emphasis on first syllable for both
Pesk-ay Roe-soe
PESH-ay ROS-so, which I would guess means red fish.
“Pes-cheh Roh-soh”
**Peh**-skuh **Rah**-soh
Pesk-eh ross-o
Peh-Shay Roh-So
Pesche rozo
pay-shay roe-soe
Pesky Ross-o. Makes me think of Friends.
I'm Korean and I would pronounce it as Pesche rosso. Dont know why tho. Just feels like it
Pes-kay Ro-soh. Italian.
The sc combination in Italian makes a “sh” sound though
Hey, I didn't say I was *good* at Italian.
*Gorlahmi*