Honestly, all season I was expecting Norm to poison them, especially when he was the one tasked with bringing them food and the apparently surprising provision of jelly cake, but he seemed to be honestly surprised when he found them dead. Of the remaining suspects, I think you're right - Betty is the prime suspect, Steph is second. Given the timing, it makes sense that Betty wanted to 'clean house' before dividing up the remaining vault dwellers.
It completely tracks that it was Betty. They didn't have the resources to rehabilitate them and repopulate 32. It was a drain on the vaults resources. They contributed nothing. It makes sense to get rid of them. And Norm was becoming rebellious. Betty planting seeds of culpability in his mind by implying his words caused their death was her trying to get him to toe the line again.
i literally just typed this out on my own thread so excuse the copy/paste - but those weren’t raiders and they weren’t poisoned. here’s what i think went down:
The beauty and horror of VaultTec is that they preyed on scared, gullible people by feeding them the ideal of safety and security, when in reality it was just human experimentation.
I think the experiment in Vaults 31, 32, and 33 was to find people who were blind followers and “cowards” (Lucy’s cousin said it himself to Norm), and breed them, using Bud’s Buds to govern. Bud’s Buds are egotistical, and also cowards, but blindly believe that they were hand-selected to repopulate the surface because there is something “special” (see what i did there?) about them. So a dash of fragile ego in Bud’s Buds.
I think Vault 32 (before the raid) existed as an intermediary “control” Vault where they sent folks from 33 who showed any inkling of non-compliance. A perfectly indoctrinated family can still give birth to someone who doesn’t adhere to their ideals. Norm said that whatever happened in 32 happened “years ago”, and by the state of the bodies, that tracks. The graffiti on the walls also seems to indicate that the people in 32 were aware of the experiment - “FUCK MANAGEMENT”.
Its kind of a confirmation bias fallacy, 32 shows what happens when there is no governance - Bud’s Buds arent seeded as leadership, but the Vault itself is seeded with “free thinkers” who dissolved into chaos and killed each other when resources became scarce. 33 is weirdly situated in between 32 and 31, so Bud’s Buds wouldnt have had to pass through 32 to govern 31. Its entirely possible that after the raiders took over 32, Bud’s Buds were none the wiser because they had little to no interaction with 32 to begin with. I think they (33) stuck with 31 primarily for breeding, but eventually it devolved into “cousin stuff”, so started trading resources with 32 (which we know from Lucy’s “marriage”) in exchange for fresh DNA.
Just like how Maximus was all about Vault 4, I’m sure people like Bart(? - eyepatch girl’s husband) stayed quiet because they viewed coming into 33 as better than what they had, so why shit on a good thing?
I fucking love picking apart the Vault experiments. Its all so fantastically fucked up and coated in wholesomeness. Completely horrifying because plenty of people are dumb enough to buy into it for the illusion of safety.
I think you're thinking of the wrong thing. In episode 7, around 30 minutes in, Norm discovers that all the imprisoned raiders who they'd been holding onto since ep 1 had been killed with rat poison. The question is who poisoned them?
oh - you right
i was stuck on my theory of what the experiment was this morning. 😏
hmm…. well im on my first rewatch so let me think on that one a bit. couldve been either one, but i could see the blonde pushing the idea of killing them on to norm (obvs he didnt do it).
question is - did the blonde migrate to 32 before or after the taiders were killed?
im also kinda curious if the blonde is gonna show up at any point in the flashbacks
If I recall correctly, Steph went straight from 31 to 33, she was never a resident of 32. She came over in or around March 2294.
As for the experiment, it was all about breeding "a race of super-managers" and creating people with an optimistic, can-do attitude.
no i was talking about when Betty sent half the population to 32 and made Steph the Overseer.
did the raiders in the cell get poisoned before or after Betty sent them over there?
yeah i understand what the experiment was - i wrote a friggin essay lol
Oh, gotcha - the raiders were killed immediately before the vault reassignments were sent out. Steph didn't know she was moving to 32 until after it happene.d
She is from pre war like Hank. Norm even asks her what vault 31 was like. Then she responds by asking Norm “what did your dad say about it”. As a way of confirming his suspicions or letting him know not all is what it seems (I’m not saying she was trying to drop hints but that’s what the result was because after this exchange Norm knew she could NOT be trusted.)
I think the people at Griffith Observatory broadly were a community organized/led by NCR remnants, but Moldaver had built a reputation outside of that. Her Flame Mother persona doesn't seem compatible with NCR - I figure she worked with raiders and separately was building the NCR community to conduct the research there.
I think it was Steph. She was talking about it in an earlier episode, and she remarked about it to Norm as soon as she saw him, right after he came from discovering himself. I don't think the news would have traveled THAT fast.
Betty or Steph. Most likely Steph.They blinded her and killed her husband, Bert.
Norm is likely too much of a coward- as he agrees that he is a coward. He hid in a box when the raiders attacked. He doesn’t even kill Bud’s brain- when he should do so.
#spoiler Spoiler
On another note- does it seem that Betty admits to destroying Shady Sands with Hank?
Betty says to Norm about his mother’s pip-boy, I buried it myself, with your father….
Definitely Betty or Steph or anyone from Vault 31, The raiders are not part of the overall Vault Experiment, but they couldn't just kill them outright with a firing squad, its all about appearances.
What were those two idiot Co-Overseers thinking with the whole rehabilitation plan, forget the fact that there violent killers who killed there friends and wouldn't hesitate to do so again, but all the radiation they carry from generations of being on the surface would lead to all kinds of deformity's down the road.
I really wanted it to be norm, but I think it was Betty. If it was her, she straight up says why she did it - people need something to fret about.
Norm seemed to become less resentful of them after visiting vault 32
I interpreted it as him having bigger fish to fry.
Yeah that's probably a bit more accurate, he didn't stop hating the raiders, he just found a bigger enemy.
Could be either Betty or Steph and it doesn’t matter which - they’re both from 31 and in on it.
Almost represents our current state as people with media.
Honestly, all season I was expecting Norm to poison them, especially when he was the one tasked with bringing them food and the apparently surprising provision of jelly cake, but he seemed to be honestly surprised when he found them dead. Of the remaining suspects, I think you're right - Betty is the prime suspect, Steph is second. Given the timing, it makes sense that Betty wanted to 'clean house' before dividing up the remaining vault dwellers.
Not to mention the raiders having already seen the other vault before it was cleaned up
Betty or Steph would be the culprits. >!Since they're both vault-tec employees, and would want to keep the vault clear of outsiders.!<
It completely tracks that it was Betty. They didn't have the resources to rehabilitate them and repopulate 32. It was a drain on the vaults resources. They contributed nothing. It makes sense to get rid of them. And Norm was becoming rebellious. Betty planting seeds of culpability in his mind by implying his words caused their death was her trying to get him to toe the line again.
i literally just typed this out on my own thread so excuse the copy/paste - but those weren’t raiders and they weren’t poisoned. here’s what i think went down: The beauty and horror of VaultTec is that they preyed on scared, gullible people by feeding them the ideal of safety and security, when in reality it was just human experimentation. I think the experiment in Vaults 31, 32, and 33 was to find people who were blind followers and “cowards” (Lucy’s cousin said it himself to Norm), and breed them, using Bud’s Buds to govern. Bud’s Buds are egotistical, and also cowards, but blindly believe that they were hand-selected to repopulate the surface because there is something “special” (see what i did there?) about them. So a dash of fragile ego in Bud’s Buds. I think Vault 32 (before the raid) existed as an intermediary “control” Vault where they sent folks from 33 who showed any inkling of non-compliance. A perfectly indoctrinated family can still give birth to someone who doesn’t adhere to their ideals. Norm said that whatever happened in 32 happened “years ago”, and by the state of the bodies, that tracks. The graffiti on the walls also seems to indicate that the people in 32 were aware of the experiment - “FUCK MANAGEMENT”. Its kind of a confirmation bias fallacy, 32 shows what happens when there is no governance - Bud’s Buds arent seeded as leadership, but the Vault itself is seeded with “free thinkers” who dissolved into chaos and killed each other when resources became scarce. 33 is weirdly situated in between 32 and 31, so Bud’s Buds wouldnt have had to pass through 32 to govern 31. Its entirely possible that after the raiders took over 32, Bud’s Buds were none the wiser because they had little to no interaction with 32 to begin with. I think they (33) stuck with 31 primarily for breeding, but eventually it devolved into “cousin stuff”, so started trading resources with 32 (which we know from Lucy’s “marriage”) in exchange for fresh DNA. Just like how Maximus was all about Vault 4, I’m sure people like Bart(? - eyepatch girl’s husband) stayed quiet because they viewed coming into 33 as better than what they had, so why shit on a good thing? I fucking love picking apart the Vault experiments. Its all so fantastically fucked up and coated in wholesomeness. Completely horrifying because plenty of people are dumb enough to buy into it for the illusion of safety.
I think you're thinking of the wrong thing. In episode 7, around 30 minutes in, Norm discovers that all the imprisoned raiders who they'd been holding onto since ep 1 had been killed with rat poison. The question is who poisoned them?
oh - you right i was stuck on my theory of what the experiment was this morning. 😏 hmm…. well im on my first rewatch so let me think on that one a bit. couldve been either one, but i could see the blonde pushing the idea of killing them on to norm (obvs he didnt do it). question is - did the blonde migrate to 32 before or after the taiders were killed? im also kinda curious if the blonde is gonna show up at any point in the flashbacks
If I recall correctly, Steph went straight from 31 to 33, she was never a resident of 32. She came over in or around March 2294. As for the experiment, it was all about breeding "a race of super-managers" and creating people with an optimistic, can-do attitude.
no i was talking about when Betty sent half the population to 32 and made Steph the Overseer. did the raiders in the cell get poisoned before or after Betty sent them over there? yeah i understand what the experiment was - i wrote a friggin essay lol
Oh, gotcha - the raiders were killed immediately before the vault reassignments were sent out. Steph didn't know she was moving to 32 until after it happene.d
They were sent over after the Raiders were poisoned. It seems likely that Steph poisoned them. She's from 31, and from before the bombs fell.
She is from pre war like Hank. Norm even asks her what vault 31 was like. Then she responds by asking Norm “what did your dad say about it”. As a way of confirming his suspicions or letting him know not all is what it seems (I’m not saying she was trying to drop hints but that’s what the result was because after this exchange Norm knew she could NOT be trusted.)
i just finished rewatching and i now firmly believe that Betty poisoned the raiders.
maybe I missed something but were the raiders not ncr? or did moldaver literally just hire a bunch of raiders?
I think the people at Griffith Observatory broadly were a community organized/led by NCR remnants, but Moldaver had built a reputation outside of that. Her Flame Mother persona doesn't seem compatible with NCR - I figure she worked with raiders and separately was building the NCR community to conduct the research there.
I blame Woody
Ok doing a rewatch of episode 3, Steph looked like she wanted them killed so I feel it was her
I think it was Steph. She was talking about it in an earlier episode, and she remarked about it to Norm as soon as she saw him, right after he came from discovering himself. I don't think the news would have traveled THAT fast.
Betty or Steph. Most likely Steph.They blinded her and killed her husband, Bert. Norm is likely too much of a coward- as he agrees that he is a coward. He hid in a box when the raiders attacked. He doesn’t even kill Bud’s brain- when he should do so.
#spoiler Spoiler On another note- does it seem that Betty admits to destroying Shady Sands with Hank? Betty says to Norm about his mother’s pip-boy, I buried it myself, with your father….
Definitely Betty or Steph or anyone from Vault 31, The raiders are not part of the overall Vault Experiment, but they couldn't just kill them outright with a firing squad, its all about appearances. What were those two idiot Co-Overseers thinking with the whole rehabilitation plan, forget the fact that there violent killers who killed there friends and wouldn't hesitate to do so again, but all the radiation they carry from generations of being on the surface would lead to all kinds of deformity's down the road.