Amarant has flair. He is a good character in battle. He combines two good classes in monk and ninja. He just has next to no plot or character development. A lot of wasted potential.
I haven't played 9 yet, so reading your comment I thought you were referring to all the blank spaces and was mega confused! Makes a lot more sense after a quick Google!
I'm curious how you're counting the upvotes. Are you just taking the top comment? Before you changed Ultmos, Emet had over 5 times as many upvotes in total, in the villian thread.
I’m not really sure why people are posting the same person over and over instead of just upvoting the top one of the character they agree with. If they have more to add they could just comment and add the additional info under it.
Yeah I'm just going by the top comment. If it was comment-counting, I'd be pretty swamped as we've got as many as 700 different opinions coming in for some rounds.
They did with Zach what they did Boba Fett and it was for the worse in both cases so I'm on board with this. Honestly even moreso than Sephiroth or Cloud who both see heavy criticism constantly already so not sure they can be considered overrated
I like what they are doing with the Remake trilogy but I have to agree about Zack. Especially because of Crisis Core. Dude has virtually no meaningful character growth - he started as a stereotypical shounen simpleton jock who just wants to be a 'hero' and get promoted to first class. Nothing really changes within him even though all this stuff happens to him. He never really questions the spiel Angeal feeds him about honour and what it means to be a hero - he continues to regurgitate all that bs even to till his last moment, doesn't reflect on Shinra's atrocities in Wutai, there was so much potential in the Yuffie missions for him to have some greater awareness of what terrible things he did, but he was unable to see it beyond 'hey cute little kid let me entertain her and protect her because she's a cute little kid'.
Personal journeys and overcoming conflicts to grow is a key part of storytelling. Stereotypes are a fine base layer to start a character off but the problem is when the character doesn’t shift from the stereotype. Yes they are endearing but a large part of why they are endearing is they experience growth and development. Which is in painfully short supply with Zack at least in CC.
Cloud’s entire arc is about rediscovering who he truly is. At the end after sorting his head out he literally becomes a different person from the pseudo-Zack we were introduced to in the bombing mission
Barrett has to come to terms with his own guilt over Corel, deal with the loss of Dyne and the Avalanche crew, as well as the complicated morality of how he ran Avalanche.
Tifa struggles with people-pleasing, but is self aware enough of her issues. She falls into the lifestream and had a life changing experience. She’s clearly more assertive and confident in herself after that experience.
Aerith learns about her lineage and takes on the responsibility of being the planet’s savior.
Red XIII learns the truth about his family and accepts he has to leave the Canyon. He also now bears the burden of the Gi tribe’s request.
Yuffie is currently pretty one note in the remake games but there are hints of the depth of her character. And she will definitely be getting her own arc in Wutai in part 3.
Zack in CC just parrots the same Angeal and SOLDIER talking points without any hint of irony or doubt even till his last breath. He does some heroic things yes but he never truly attempts to understand what really makes a hero. He’s basically the same dude from start to finish.
He showed more emotional depth in his interactions with Marlene and Biggs in Rebirth than the entirety of CC. Better graphics definitely helped in conveying more of his charm but the writing was better than the mess in CC. Zack in CC was like a used car that looks great at first glance but if you look under the hood the engine is spoilt and the transmission needs work.
I dunno i feel like a static character has their place in a story, growing can just mean reaffirming what you already know about yourself. And even in the story now I like that he’s sort of a man out of time trying to figure out his place. You may see him as a stereotype but to me he’s honestly the character I find myself drawn to the most.
Not all character’s are going appeal to everyone (I’m somewhat neutral on cid) but I feel like Zack fits perfectly well within the narrative.
But his staticness runs counter the story that’s set up. He spent his life in service of an evil corpora-fascist regime. In his ignorance, his desire to be heroic was twisted into him being a thug. You’d think finding out the SOLDIER definition of a hero was built on a lie would lead to him wanting to change his worldview.
And in the end, when he sees all Shinra’s evil laid bare, he doesn’t actually ever turn on them until they already want him dead. And when he’s on the run, he’s not interested in exposing their lies or rebelling against them… the sorta thing you’d think someone obsessed with being a hero would do… instead he wants to become a freelance mercenary and hang out with his girlfriend? And he’s seemingly not concerned that the Shinra secret service are keeping tabs on his girlfriend?
Just because it didn’t go a way you may have wanted doesn’t mean that zack some how runs counter to it’s narrative. His entire purpose in the original game was to die and his ideals and memories to be transplant onto cloud, he’s the entire reason cloud even has a compelling story arc.
It just so happens he’s an extremely endearing character.
the only person he really inspires is the SOLDIER dude in one of the missions who ends up doing endless squats in the briefing room. he changes cloud yeah, but i'd argue it wasn't for the better. i guess you could also argue he 'inspires' aerith to start selling flowers and being less 'fearful' of the sky but imo CC's characterisation of Aerith as a naive helpless girl for Zack to swoop in to save was criminal to begin with...
i'd also be more open to considering him 'genuinely good' if he displayed just one ounce of internal conflict or remorse over all the crimes he happily committed for Shinra, in the name of being 'a hero'.
>CC's characterisation of Aerith as a naive helpless girl for Zack to swoop in to save was criminal to begin with
I felt this so strongly while playing through CC. Aerith *looks* like a naive, helpless girl but the point is that she's much tougher and aware than she seems. I didn't love her character in CC.
Ikr. I've seen the argument that Aerith's playful and witty personality in the main game and remake games might have been due to Zack's influence in CC...and ok I can buy that to some extent. But CC really took the 'damsel in distress' stuff to the next level. You're telling me a girl who grew up in the slums is still so naive and helpless as a teenager? The fear the sky stuff, while being logical given her story, was pretty infantile and could have been written better, needing Zack to tell her to sell flowers to make money...ugh...I'm fine with having Zack build the flower wagon but someone as smart as Aerith should have figured out to sell flowers on her own. Even taking into account Tseng was protecting her from the shadows so she would never have been in any real danger...CC really did her dirty.
yeah he did what any decent friend or human would do. what about the be my living legacy bullshit that probably played just a tiny part in cloud's eventual mental illness/breakdown in the mainline game/remake games.
Nah I can’t blame Zack for what Hojo did. The living legacy stuff is just a bad translation anyway, in the original Japanese he says “you are the proof that I existed. My pride and my dreams, I give it all to you”
>in the original Japanese he says “you are the proof that I existed. My pride and my dreams, I give it all to you”
Yeah that's fair. I'll concede that sounds a lot better. Still he never truly reflects on or questions his way of life, the concept of SOLDIER honour, most of Shinra's actions, Angeal's teachings, what it actually means to be a hero..and when he dies (at least in CC) he's pretty much the same dude, beliefs and values-wise, as when the game began. Which in a series where the characters develop, grow and mature A LOT in their own individual arcs was just a huge wasted opportunity for Zack (in CC and CCR) imo. For me in Rebirth even though he was basically a cameo character he showed more emotional range and complexity in those scenes with Biggs and Marlene than the entirety of CC.
I notice you think he's the best character in the series so I don't have any illusions of changing your mind. Just stating my opinion...agree to disagree!
I agree with most of your points and think Zack is way overrated, but I don’t agree with the idea that saving someone’s life can be flippantly tossed out as what “any decent person would do”. That was absolutely a heroic gesture. Especially since Cloud was catatonic and they were on the run from a world military superpower.
Hard agree. Zack was made a way better character due to how minimal time he got on screen in the OG. All of the extra stuff that has elaborated on him has been kind of awful in and out of the character. I also think his voice acting in crisis core and rebirth has also not been great. I have no idea why people love him so much aside from his good nature.
I think the main reason people love him, or at least for me, is \*because\* of his good nature; he just seems like a super chill dude and the best friend one could possibly ask for.
Yeah but it’s overhyped. Yeah he wants to be a hero and his kindness make it super endearing but it’s just undercut by how dumb he is, how long he retains his respect for shinra, the cast he’s surrounded by, and how he ends up undercutting some of the events in the OG by him being elaborated on. I just think they made a character that was made cooler by his mystique and limited introduction borderline awful by focusing on him. Likewise they are doing something similar with sephiroth in rebirth and ever crisis. They absolutely could’ve made these characters cooler or more interesting but with the newer changes have largely failed.
I get that. My take on it isn’t that he’s dumb but rather he’s just clouded with an inherent denial. Since his whole life he’s been sold on the hoax of ‘SOLDIER honour’ by someone who he massively respects, finding out that it’s all pretty meaningless would deal a massive blow to him, especially as he seems to have instilled the whole ‘dreams and honour’ slogan as one of his core values. I think he just unconsciously turns a blind eye because someone who aspires for heroism realising he is in fact the villain of many people’s stories would be ironically epiphanic. So he just blanks it out until he can’t no more and it’s staring him in the face, which is around the events of Nibelheim. His last stand imo when he preaches SOLDIER honour - I think he’s praying to Angeal rather than Shinra there as a last homage to his mentor before he lays down his life for his best friend. So with that, imo he’s more nuanced than ‘naive shounen protagonist.’
Just my two cents though - I do understand the sentiment of him being overrated.
I don’t disagree I think you’re right to some degree but all of the stuff that happens that he turns a blind eye to is pretty astounding and his come to Jesus moment is not exactly clear but it’s either sephiroth’s betrayal or getting kidnapped along with cloud but one of those two moments broke him. However, the moments that lead up to that was (and I forget the exact order of this) fighting wutai (which okay it was a war), burning down a village to cover up for shinra along with the Turks, killing his mentor who was experimented on shinra, hunting down Hollander for turning on shinra, finding Aerith who she tells Zack that she’s being monitored by shinra, and then finally the nibelheim incident. So tying this back to Zack being overhyped, they could’ve made him so much more interesting if he was questioning shinra along the way and comparing it to his own ideals and his dream of being a hero and they didn’t. Even after the time skip when he’s training new recruits he tells them not to forget their soldier honor which by most measurements he should maybe question if being in soldier is at all honorable. And yeah the argument could be made that he’s a propaganda brainwashed puppy but imo for these reasons it just was presented and told so badly it makes the expansion on Zack the character awful. I honestly do not understand the love for him as a character or why people put him in their top FF character lists.
Yeah fair enough. I mean the reason he’s my favourite FF character is because I feel like he has the most natural development where if you compare the beginning and end of his character arc he’s visibly matured rather than his development being a large jumps and epiphanies like Cloud and Sephiroth (I do agree those two are more complex and better-written though)
Also I just think he’s probably one of the most warm-hearted characters out there so you could say he’s a comfort character?
I don’t even like Zack really, but Zack already *has* happened. A huge part of the fanbase, despite the game focused on him being exceptionally mediocre.
As someone who loves Zack, I have to agree with this, he has a purpose in the narrative, he serves it, crisis core fleshes him out more which is cool, but the role he plays in rebirth is so underwhelming. Looking back, it really felt like they had nothing to do with him, but they needed to justify him showing up in the end
As someone who is in the 'overrated' camp I actually think he was ok in rebirth - he has more emotional range and complexity in those few scenes than the entirety of CC imo, and I wanted to have more of the 'alternate timeline' sequences with him. But I enjoy the multiple timeline stuff in general anyway.
I do agree with this 100%, I was genuinely engaged with his scenes throughout rebirth, I loved the idea of him deciding to >!go to Hojo for help because he actually had a decent relationship with him!<, my disappointment all stems from what it built up to, since what I was thinking was gonna happen was so much more grandiose then what actually transpired
I feel like many people are using this as an overrepresented character rather than overrated. Big names like Cloud and Sephiroth make sense as overrepresented, but as overrated I think they get plenty of discussion on their faults. I believe a truly overrated character is someone like Beatrix. A character often requested as part of the party and who is given an excellent introduction as a counterpart to Steiner and disc 1 boss. Only to find themselves committing genocide and facing very little repercussions for this act. A lot more could have been explored there but the narrative becomes so Zidane-focused. Which leads to this often requested party member just sort of existing after a while but played up as important.
She was never played up as important by the narrative after fat blue whale dies. Wym? With what little relevance she had, she played only a few parts as the Alexandrian general.
She has some pretty pivotal moments as she’s one of Dagger’s main confidants, her appearance near the end, and her actually being in the party. Regardless, this is about her being overrated by the fanbase as a whole. Which is why I’ve detailed her here rather than as “most plot-relevant character”.
Yeah I do this in a very makeshift way; I make a table in Google docs and insert text and images, then zoom out and snip it, format it into an image and paste it here. Due to the zooming out, the quality isn't great, unfortunately.
I reckon Sephiroth. So over-used, over-exposed, over-played and over-marketed that he can't possibly ever live up to any of his hype no matter his quality.
Which was the point of and another element of story telling 7 deconstructs. Strip away all the mysteries to him and you just get a sore loser with abandonment issues who is gonna flip his shit when he realizes he acts like his father he despises.
You're saying Edgy Swordman like it's a bad thing when being an edgy swordman is like the entire base of this franchise (and I think that is cool and good).
This!!!
He had enough charisma to stay interesting in his own game, but good lord, how incredibly boring he becomes the second he receives any screentime outside of original VII. He is simply not that deep or interesting to give any meaning to that awful amount of appearances he has.
The way people talk about Kefka like he is some full on nietzschean shakespearen masterclass villian.
Then you see him in 6 and it's just like 1 comment about dreams when he dies. I liked him. But he was pretty underwhelming if you go off of this subs praise of him.
I think the reason he's good isn't that he is some deep character or anything. It's the context surrounding him that makes him a fascinating villain. He was Gestahls' evil puppet. Gestahl could commit casual war crimes and engage in whatever unsavory business he wanted, then blame it all on kefka while *claiming* he had nothing to do with it. The game propped Gestahl up as the bbeg and kefka as that mid level reoccurring boss you'd eventually dispatch before moving on. To see him pull off that switcheroo was such a twist that my unassuming 10 year old mind couldn't see coming.
There's another argument that kefka is the only villain to arguably win and achieve his goals, which idk he didn't ultimately beat the party but the world is fucked so I really don't know.
Revisiting the game as an adult, the reason I like him is he's a bit of a response to the post-modern whiny crap that comes around every few years. You have the characters doing their typical "maybe-I'm-not-the-good-guy" shtick, then kefka just laser blasts a village of orphans some other evil shit and the characters go "Wait never mind. Objective evil 100% exists, let's go stop it."
That's another thing that I think is overhyped about him.
He doesn't "win". He gets one over on the party by becoming a god.
But his goal is to destroy everything. Which he doesn't succeed at. He kills a lot of people and almost wins.
But by that logic don't Ardyn and Ultima also "win".
Ardyn takes over the world and Ultima basicaly takes over the world at the end of 16.
Agreed. She was a good fit in 13 as the most prominent member of an ensemble cast, but simply didn't have the charisma* or gravitas to carry a full game by herself and her scenes in 13-2 were flashy but empty. In a way she reminds me of Squall without the internal monologue.
* That's not meant as a criticism of Ali Hillis' voice acting, just that the character is very reserved and guarded.
Tifa Lockhart, she wouldn't be half as popular if she wasn't a big booba lady. In fact people would be massively critical of her original FF7 story with the intentional secret keeping and delusion feeding and just never telling Cloud despite knowing all along. I've seen her storm ahead in character popularity polls over really deep and loved and important characters which is astonishing to me. Like the one on this subreddit last year she was like number 3 under Yuna and Vivi like WTF. If she was a gruff looking guy and not a hot girl tons of people would be like "Eugh I HATE Tifa for stringing Cloud along/Tifa lied to Cloud I hate them!" like they do with Cait Sith but if Cait Sith was a hot girl they'd forgive them. Which I think proves that with Tifa, its mostly about her looks as to why she's so beloved, and not her character arc/personality, which is actually one of a quite deceptive character in the original.
It was second!? Thats even worse! So people think she's BETTER than Yuna, Auron, Balthier, Emet-Selch, Cloud, Tidus, Zidane, Aerith, Squall, Laguna etc. The list goes on? That she has a better personality, stronger character arc, better character development, even better gameplay mechanics than all of them? And it's not because she's got massive booba?
Yeah she's drastically improved in the remake and upgraded from just a good character to a great one, but even Remake Tifa isn't second place in the WHOLE series IMO
No tifa is popular because she’s tifa lol. She could have flattest chest on earth and she would still be popular cause she’s has a good character and is important to the narrative
Kefka.
Everyone acts like he's the best because he "destroyed the world" yet the world is functioning pretty well. Most towns exist, people buy expensive (if haunted) art, high gil auctioning takes place and your whole party survives (if you wait for Shadow)
Also the "God of Magic" gets taken down easily by regular humans with no real plan other than, go to the big tower.
I wish Kefka was more present in the World of Ruin. Nah, he’s chilling in his tower. He can wait and not anticipate an aerial attack.
IMO music sold his treachery.
There was a thread the other day either here or the FFXIV sub where someone asked who was the character from FFXIV that equates to the same level of fame as Cloud or Sephiroth and most said Y'shtola when the real answer is none of them. Nobody outside of XIV players know who she is
Fair, but to me that just means she isn’t over-represented. She can still be overrated among the player base. But if she’s not, she’s not! I could be wrong.
Kefka. Most of his hype seems to revolve around the fact that he "won" by devastating the world into ruin (even though he still ultimately lost in the end, failing to both physically defeat the party and to crush the spirit of humanity.)
But really though, basically any other main villain from the series could have done what he did. He betrayed his leader who appeared to be incapable of defending himself, pushed some statues around, and then stood in the middle to absorb godlike powers.
Cloud is definitely one of the most overrated characters. It isn't that he's a bad character. He is, in fact, quite good. But overrated, by definition, has to be popular.
Lightning
I can't voice my opinion properly of why really as it has been a while since I played the trilogy. Her personality is really distant and cold and I dont recall warming up to it much by the end. The best word that comes to my mind about her is unnatural. She doesn't feel like a real person at times but just "a cool character doing cool things", when let's say someone like Sazh, Snow and Hope feel alive and I think plenty people can relate to. She does have her moments in character interactions though so it's not like she is all bad but this is about overrating characters
I honestly would say that Lightning is the worst or 2nd worst character of the main casts in the whole trilogy of XIII. We have other strong female characters in the series that are better done like Yuna or Celes
[https://www.reddit.com/r/FinalFantasy/comments/15dn11z/final\_fantasy\_character\_rankings\_according\_to/](https://www.reddit.com/r/FinalFantasy/comments/15dn11z/final_fantasy_character_rankings_according_to/) can see here that she does have a larger fanbase at least in Japan. And I think after Cloud, Lightning is the next main character that has had the most publicity with the irl collabs and having 3 games where she is and all
Popularity does not take into account something being overrated though. You could have a character that 90% of people hate but still say that the 10% who like them are overrating it. (idk if overrated can be used in this sense, it is just how I see it)
The amount of hate Lightning gets means she isn't overrated. She's got growth and character, but so many people just absolutely hated FFXIII that she's a casualty of that hate.
you...You will begin to cough in three days (/j)
But in all seriousness, as a Lightning stan, she's definitely the most (if not, one of the most) blatantly disliked characters.
Even in the poll results you replied to someone else with, where she's most popular in Japan, she's even still at the bottom of that list :/
I don't understand how people call Lightning distant and cold unless they straight up haven't finished the game. She's that way in the beginning but she starts changing in CH4 and is on upward trend for the rest of the game in terms of how she treats the party. She's starts treating Hope well and in bonding with him accepts that she screwed up with Snow, later apologizes to Snow, and then tries to cheer him up when he's feeling hopeless. [The part towards the end of the game in Sulyya Springs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRlIzdXN0xQ) perfectly captures the growth in their relationship.
Like yes, she's a more reserved character, but she starts warming up the party relatively early in the game. This happens directly in cutscenes shown to the player in the game.
Lightning starts as angry brat at beginning of game; then just turns into white noise as opposed to anything resembling a leader character. An attempt at replicating Cloud, which not only missed the point of Cloud but made her come off more like Squall without any of Squall's leadership moments. X-3 made her dull and emotionless then gives her a quest requiring emotion to care about. But...baffingly enough, I do like her in the Dissidia games. I don't know, I feel like on retrospect; it's the writing in the character rather than the character itself.
She's unnecessarily aggro at the wrong times; her attempts at being caring just falls so flat, akin to manipulation as opposed to actual caring. Girl's as tender as a boulder, so I can't believe she cared about Serah more than Snow did.
Lightning is one of the most divisive characters in the series. She's more underrated if anything because people let there dislike of XIII or lightning and say she has no character or any growth and it's fine if you didn't like it but to say she lacks is just hate.
True she is divisive. It's hard to critisize XIII or its characters cause the vocal hater group has kinda ruined any form of legit critical talk of the game. I for example think XIII is a pretty good game and XIII-2 is one of my favorites in the entire franchise
Kefka - he's discount Joker who I already think is an overrated character to begin with. Which is fine because FF6 is an ensemble cast game and wanted to divert it's focus to the party. But the fan base talks about Kefka like he isn't just shallow evil clown.
This! I've feel like I'd been taking crazypills because everyone else around me seemed to have had a totally different experience with Haurchefant's death than me. I had no attachment to him from what the story gave, so his death didn't hit emotionally at all.
His father's reaction was tearjerky, but not the death itself.
hottake, Yuna
She felt extremely flat to me as a character, yet people can't stop singing praise and have her be one of the best protagonist (yes she's protag for X-2) in the series.
She's not complex, she's just an overly kind person who dares not voice out herself in afraid of troubling others. And her relationship with Tidus is super random, she just suddenly get close with him for no apparent reason and boom! She's in love! At least rikku have more compelling reason for me to connect with Tidus.
That was intentional.
Her whole life she was preparing to die, knowingly making the sacrifice.
So she would want to be as blank as possible to not botch it at the end, like some summoners she meets during her journey.
Her personality couldn't develop because she tried to be distant.
The reason she is such a good mc is because you see her growing to love life and still pushing through to her death, knowingly.
And that's also the great thing about Tidus and Yuna: interaction of one full of life and the endless possibilities Yuna is suddenly considering.
Especially in x-2 you see her struggling and breaking out of her , very relatable, trait of getting used for her kindness and helpfulness by others. And that she ultimately has her own goals and does her own decisions. EVEN if they aling with other people's desire. But that they are her own decisions still. Tbh for me the best written character, cause every struggle of her feels sooo relatable.
Yeah no, I think snow, vannille or other very stereotyp-y written characters are way worse.
Yuna has become overrated with the narrative that She was the main character. Like no Tidus is the main character without him maybe Yuna is lucky enough to make it to Zanarkand and be just another sacrificed summoner.
It's Fran.
Now, I don't dislike Fran, however she's basically just a slightly worse Kimahri. Except she's really hot. And people talk about her like she's one of the best characters in the series, and react like her appearing in stuff is the coolest shit ever.
I'm not gonna deny that she is a beautifully designed character (they're one of the coolest "matriarchal warrior race" types I've ever seen), and well enough scripted/acted for what she is. But she's ultimately just a fairly quiet henchman type, and her story is mostly just Balthier kicking her right in the Bechdel test. The character design has carried her ongoing popularity.
I'd have to say Kefka as overrated. He is a great villian but holy shit. No need to hype him up so much. I know he is very evil and his music I amazing but everyone I talk to about FF mentions him way more than Sephiroth or Seymour.
Tifa in the original. She can be summed up as the “kind and caring girl next door” with no other aspect to her character. She has absolutely no character arc of her own independent of Cloud. All of her “development” is about her feelings regarding him. She is a wish fulfillment character.
My vote is on Vaan. He’s overrated in the sense that SQEX themselves have made him the poster child of XII, but he was largely inconsequential to the story. Ashe was far more integral to the story, and everyone’s favorite Leading Man was more useful in bringing her closer to her goals than Vaan was.
I'd hand it to Kefka imo.
Out of all PSX titles 6 is the one I haven't played growing up. I've heard of course lots of praise about the game and especially the villain, so I had high expectations for Kefka going in when I finaly started to play it.
Let's just say the fans over sold how he was written and it came off shallower than I anticipated.
Don't get me wrong though, I still love 6 in terms of story and what it had to offer. Out of all FFs it's one you could truly call an ensemble cast. The villain just felt too underwhelming after I've heard lots of praise about him.
As someone who played 6 when it was 3 on SNES back at it's launch, and multiple times since, I still like Kefka. However, it's because he's NOT a deep villain.
So many are written with these deep, complex, "sad boy" stories that require you to peel back the layers to understand. Then when you get there you might even empathize with them (Sephi or Kuja), but not Kefka. He's straight up just a simple psychopathic megalomaniac who had very powerful magic after infusion so he became the emperors right hand. Then he used said magic to kill off opposition and the emperor to gain more power.
He's a super simple villain with no reason to empathize with him.
That's at least my take on it. Hence why I think, for villains, ones like Sephi or Kuja are overrated because they're typical "sad boy" tropes from anime, even though I personally love Kuja and his dynamic with Zidane and how everything plays out with Garland.
Maybe part of why Kefka didn't stuck with me is because he felt like a rehash of Joker, not just because of the clown part but the just evil with no reasons shtick too.
Tifa - She's not even the most interesting heroine in her own game let alone the series. She embodies the worst traits of a heroine who's all about the MC to the detriment of her own arc. Her crowning moment is doing something for Cloud. Imagine if someone like Yuna's most important point in the story was not about her Summoner's Journey but instead propping up Tidus. The series has other much better written female characters.
Despite this people act like she's so amazing because she's attractive (in looks and in traits such as being shy and caring to a fault) "wife material" who always supports Cloud no matter what. She's the boring girlfriend character, but hidden in a monk's attire instead of being the typical mage.
Tifa is the perfect example of overrated, I’ve seen her get higher placements in popularity polls than Cloud who has a better character development and story.
Either Tifa or Sephiroth have to win this they are way to overrated.
I haven’t been very invested in the FF series yet (read I only ever played one of them because I’m too young and too broke) but I do look forward to getting to know blank, looking like a good character so far
Listen, I love Beatrix as much as the next guy. Super cool design, incredible theme music, overall cool gal.
But she also spends most of the game all-in participating in heinous shit and her “redemption” does very little to tilt her karma needle back into the green.
So yeah, I vote Beatrix.
Clive and Noctis are contenders, since they both end up being their worlds messiahs, which I always thought took a lot of tension out of the plot. At least Lightning had a bit of agency in her skill and development.
So sick of the ffvii haters. Zidane is such a meh protagonist and you all have the nerve to say that cloud is overrated? This sub is just filled with ffix fans
Man I am the biggest FF7 fan, no hate, but Zidane has personality and a seemingly similar and cool unknown background. Cloud is the right character for FF7, but the dude is just plain blah once you peel back the layers of the game. If I had to choose from the two it would be cloud, but the real choice is Noctis. I hate that game/character with a burning passion. That or Balthier, he isn't that cool and Ashe is the real main character.
Tifa Lockheart I’ve seen her get first place in many character ranking over many other characters who not only did way more than her but also had better character development.
The amount of Zack slobbering from the FF7 team lately is ridiculous. I completely get wanting to make him more of a character in subsequent media than just a plot device as he was in the originals, but WOW has he become waaayy too front and center lately. Also agreed on anyone who said Tifa. Its definitely mostly her looks.
To be fair, most over rated is going to come from the TOP game in the series (the game even people that dont play Final fantasy know.)
That leaves Cloud and sephiroth, if we are going by JUST OG then it can only be cloud (even though Cloud is my favorite character in FF games)
Sephiroth. No question.
Even in the Remake project he's just totally overexposed and less interesting so his presence can be marketed more. Never really felt his motivations were THAT interesting and I feel even more strongly about that now it's mutated into some timeline-altering battle to remain relevant.
If you guys dont pick Rinoa's aussie/collie mix Angelo for best girl, and Shadow's doberman Interceptor for best boy I'ma be very disappoint.
Edit oh but Umbra and Pryna too... So many dogs
Blank should have been a permanent party member. He was so awesome.
Should have been Blank instead of Amarant. That guy doesn’t have anything going on.
Imagine a questline where instead of recruiting Amarant you unpetrifry Blank and get him in your party
Amarant has flair. He is a good character in battle. He combines two good classes in monk and ninja. He just has next to no plot or character development. A lot of wasted potential.
I haven't played 9 yet, so reading your comment I thought you were referring to all the blank spaces and was mega confused! Makes a lot more sense after a quick Google!
That’s actually hilarious 😂
100% He stole every scenes he was in, I wish Zidane was more involved in saving him
It would be awesome of the remake makes him a party member
Dear lord this entire comment section is just FF7 characters and Lightning 😂
>and Lightning how can she be the most overrated when the majority opinion dislikes FF13?
Yeah lmao
I'm curious how you're counting the upvotes. Are you just taking the top comment? Before you changed Ultmos, Emet had over 5 times as many upvotes in total, in the villian thread.
I’m not really sure why people are posting the same person over and over instead of just upvoting the top one of the character they agree with. If they have more to add they could just comment and add the additional info under it.
Yeah I'm just going by the top comment. If it was comment-counting, I'd be pretty swamped as we've got as many as 700 different opinions coming in for some rounds.
I think a poll would be a better idea next time! Squall won best protagonist by comments alone so I was surprised to see Zidane there and not Squall.
Problem is a poll doesn't really work well for these questions where there are dozens or even over a hundred potential answers.
Where’s the Best Cid category 😔🤟
I’m tempted to make a category for this now…
It’s right up there, titled “hottest character” because the answer to both is Cidolfus Telamon.
Zack. He’s fine as a plot device. Him getting elevated to major character, getting his own spinoff and ending up the cover of Rebirth, is crazy.
They did with Zach what they did Boba Fett and it was for the worse in both cases so I'm on board with this. Honestly even moreso than Sephiroth or Cloud who both see heavy criticism constantly already so not sure they can be considered overrated
I like what they are doing with the Remake trilogy but I have to agree about Zack. Especially because of Crisis Core. Dude has virtually no meaningful character growth - he started as a stereotypical shounen simpleton jock who just wants to be a 'hero' and get promoted to first class. Nothing really changes within him even though all this stuff happens to him. He never really questions the spiel Angeal feeds him about honour and what it means to be a hero - he continues to regurgitate all that bs even to till his last moment, doesn't reflect on Shinra's atrocities in Wutai, there was so much potential in the Yuffie missions for him to have some greater awareness of what terrible things he did, but he was unable to see it beyond 'hey cute little kid let me entertain her and protect her because she's a cute little kid'.
I feel like the appeal of Zack’s character is that he’s genuinely good person that inspires and brings about change in others.
There's nothing more generic shonen than this generic, paint-by-numbers goodness.
Most of final fantasy is some variation if a generic trope, it’s strengths are in how endearing the characters are.
Personal journeys and overcoming conflicts to grow is a key part of storytelling. Stereotypes are a fine base layer to start a character off but the problem is when the character doesn’t shift from the stereotype. Yes they are endearing but a large part of why they are endearing is they experience growth and development. Which is in painfully short supply with Zack at least in CC. Cloud’s entire arc is about rediscovering who he truly is. At the end after sorting his head out he literally becomes a different person from the pseudo-Zack we were introduced to in the bombing mission Barrett has to come to terms with his own guilt over Corel, deal with the loss of Dyne and the Avalanche crew, as well as the complicated morality of how he ran Avalanche. Tifa struggles with people-pleasing, but is self aware enough of her issues. She falls into the lifestream and had a life changing experience. She’s clearly more assertive and confident in herself after that experience. Aerith learns about her lineage and takes on the responsibility of being the planet’s savior. Red XIII learns the truth about his family and accepts he has to leave the Canyon. He also now bears the burden of the Gi tribe’s request. Yuffie is currently pretty one note in the remake games but there are hints of the depth of her character. And she will definitely be getting her own arc in Wutai in part 3. Zack in CC just parrots the same Angeal and SOLDIER talking points without any hint of irony or doubt even till his last breath. He does some heroic things yes but he never truly attempts to understand what really makes a hero. He’s basically the same dude from start to finish. He showed more emotional depth in his interactions with Marlene and Biggs in Rebirth than the entirety of CC. Better graphics definitely helped in conveying more of his charm but the writing was better than the mess in CC. Zack in CC was like a used car that looks great at first glance but if you look under the hood the engine is spoilt and the transmission needs work.
I dunno i feel like a static character has their place in a story, growing can just mean reaffirming what you already know about yourself. And even in the story now I like that he’s sort of a man out of time trying to figure out his place. You may see him as a stereotype but to me he’s honestly the character I find myself drawn to the most. Not all character’s are going appeal to everyone (I’m somewhat neutral on cid) but I feel like Zack fits perfectly well within the narrative.
But his staticness runs counter the story that’s set up. He spent his life in service of an evil corpora-fascist regime. In his ignorance, his desire to be heroic was twisted into him being a thug. You’d think finding out the SOLDIER definition of a hero was built on a lie would lead to him wanting to change his worldview. And in the end, when he sees all Shinra’s evil laid bare, he doesn’t actually ever turn on them until they already want him dead. And when he’s on the run, he’s not interested in exposing their lies or rebelling against them… the sorta thing you’d think someone obsessed with being a hero would do… instead he wants to become a freelance mercenary and hang out with his girlfriend? And he’s seemingly not concerned that the Shinra secret service are keeping tabs on his girlfriend?
Just because it didn’t go a way you may have wanted doesn’t mean that zack some how runs counter to it’s narrative. His entire purpose in the original game was to die and his ideals and memories to be transplant onto cloud, he’s the entire reason cloud even has a compelling story arc. It just so happens he’s an extremely endearing character.
the only person he really inspires is the SOLDIER dude in one of the missions who ends up doing endless squats in the briefing room. he changes cloud yeah, but i'd argue it wasn't for the better. i guess you could also argue he 'inspires' aerith to start selling flowers and being less 'fearful' of the sky but imo CC's characterisation of Aerith as a naive helpless girl for Zack to swoop in to save was criminal to begin with... i'd also be more open to considering him 'genuinely good' if he displayed just one ounce of internal conflict or remorse over all the crimes he happily committed for Shinra, in the name of being 'a hero'.
>CC's characterisation of Aerith as a naive helpless girl for Zack to swoop in to save was criminal to begin with I felt this so strongly while playing through CC. Aerith *looks* like a naive, helpless girl but the point is that she's much tougher and aware than she seems. I didn't love her character in CC.
Ikr. I've seen the argument that Aerith's playful and witty personality in the main game and remake games might have been due to Zack's influence in CC...and ok I can buy that to some extent. But CC really took the 'damsel in distress' stuff to the next level. You're telling me a girl who grew up in the slums is still so naive and helpless as a teenager? The fear the sky stuff, while being logical given her story, was pretty infantile and could have been written better, needing Zack to tell her to sell flowers to make money...ugh...I'm fine with having Zack build the flower wagon but someone as smart as Aerith should have figured out to sell flowers on her own. Even taking into account Tseng was protecting her from the shadows so she would never have been in any real danger...CC really did her dirty.
You think Cloud being left in the tank would have been better for him?
yeah he did what any decent friend or human would do. what about the be my living legacy bullshit that probably played just a tiny part in cloud's eventual mental illness/breakdown in the mainline game/remake games.
Nah I can’t blame Zack for what Hojo did. The living legacy stuff is just a bad translation anyway, in the original Japanese he says “you are the proof that I existed. My pride and my dreams, I give it all to you”
>in the original Japanese he says “you are the proof that I existed. My pride and my dreams, I give it all to you” Yeah that's fair. I'll concede that sounds a lot better. Still he never truly reflects on or questions his way of life, the concept of SOLDIER honour, most of Shinra's actions, Angeal's teachings, what it actually means to be a hero..and when he dies (at least in CC) he's pretty much the same dude, beliefs and values-wise, as when the game began. Which in a series where the characters develop, grow and mature A LOT in their own individual arcs was just a huge wasted opportunity for Zack (in CC and CCR) imo. For me in Rebirth even though he was basically a cameo character he showed more emotional range and complexity in those scenes with Biggs and Marlene than the entirety of CC. I notice you think he's the best character in the series so I don't have any illusions of changing your mind. Just stating my opinion...agree to disagree!
Yeah I will concede that CC fell flat in a lot of ways
I agree with most of your points and think Zack is way overrated, but I don’t agree with the idea that saving someone’s life can be flippantly tossed out as what “any decent person would do”. That was absolutely a heroic gesture. Especially since Cloud was catatonic and they were on the run from a world military superpower.
Hard agree. Zack was made a way better character due to how minimal time he got on screen in the OG. All of the extra stuff that has elaborated on him has been kind of awful in and out of the character. I also think his voice acting in crisis core and rebirth has also not been great. I have no idea why people love him so much aside from his good nature.
I'm sorry Rick Gomez in Crisis Core is great, Rebirth not so much.
I think the main reason people love him, or at least for me, is \*because\* of his good nature; he just seems like a super chill dude and the best friend one could possibly ask for.
Yeah but it’s overhyped. Yeah he wants to be a hero and his kindness make it super endearing but it’s just undercut by how dumb he is, how long he retains his respect for shinra, the cast he’s surrounded by, and how he ends up undercutting some of the events in the OG by him being elaborated on. I just think they made a character that was made cooler by his mystique and limited introduction borderline awful by focusing on him. Likewise they are doing something similar with sephiroth in rebirth and ever crisis. They absolutely could’ve made these characters cooler or more interesting but with the newer changes have largely failed.
I get that. My take on it isn’t that he’s dumb but rather he’s just clouded with an inherent denial. Since his whole life he’s been sold on the hoax of ‘SOLDIER honour’ by someone who he massively respects, finding out that it’s all pretty meaningless would deal a massive blow to him, especially as he seems to have instilled the whole ‘dreams and honour’ slogan as one of his core values. I think he just unconsciously turns a blind eye because someone who aspires for heroism realising he is in fact the villain of many people’s stories would be ironically epiphanic. So he just blanks it out until he can’t no more and it’s staring him in the face, which is around the events of Nibelheim. His last stand imo when he preaches SOLDIER honour - I think he’s praying to Angeal rather than Shinra there as a last homage to his mentor before he lays down his life for his best friend. So with that, imo he’s more nuanced than ‘naive shounen protagonist.’ Just my two cents though - I do understand the sentiment of him being overrated.
I don’t disagree I think you’re right to some degree but all of the stuff that happens that he turns a blind eye to is pretty astounding and his come to Jesus moment is not exactly clear but it’s either sephiroth’s betrayal or getting kidnapped along with cloud but one of those two moments broke him. However, the moments that lead up to that was (and I forget the exact order of this) fighting wutai (which okay it was a war), burning down a village to cover up for shinra along with the Turks, killing his mentor who was experimented on shinra, hunting down Hollander for turning on shinra, finding Aerith who she tells Zack that she’s being monitored by shinra, and then finally the nibelheim incident. So tying this back to Zack being overhyped, they could’ve made him so much more interesting if he was questioning shinra along the way and comparing it to his own ideals and his dream of being a hero and they didn’t. Even after the time skip when he’s training new recruits he tells them not to forget their soldier honor which by most measurements he should maybe question if being in soldier is at all honorable. And yeah the argument could be made that he’s a propaganda brainwashed puppy but imo for these reasons it just was presented and told so badly it makes the expansion on Zack the character awful. I honestly do not understand the love for him as a character or why people put him in their top FF character lists.
Yeah fair enough. I mean the reason he’s my favourite FF character is because I feel like he has the most natural development where if you compare the beginning and end of his character arc he’s visibly matured rather than his development being a large jumps and epiphanies like Cloud and Sephiroth (I do agree those two are more complex and better-written though) Also I just think he’s probably one of the most warm-hearted characters out there so you could say he’s a comfort character?
I'm seconding this. Cloud and Sephiroth don't feel overrated to me, but Zack absolutely does.
I feel like him getting CC as a spin-off was fine but his role in Rebirth does feel quite half-hearted.
Especially when his character design just looks like a palette swap of Cloud. SE, stop trying to make Zach happen. It’s not going to happen.
I don’t even like Zack really, but Zack already *has* happened. A huge part of the fanbase, despite the game focused on him being exceptionally mediocre.
As someone who loves Zack, I have to agree with this, he has a purpose in the narrative, he serves it, crisis core fleshes him out more which is cool, but the role he plays in rebirth is so underwhelming. Looking back, it really felt like they had nothing to do with him, but they needed to justify him showing up in the end
As someone who is in the 'overrated' camp I actually think he was ok in rebirth - he has more emotional range and complexity in those few scenes than the entirety of CC imo, and I wanted to have more of the 'alternate timeline' sequences with him. But I enjoy the multiple timeline stuff in general anyway.
I do agree with this 100%, I was genuinely engaged with his scenes throughout rebirth, I loved the idea of him deciding to >!go to Hojo for help because he actually had a decent relationship with him!<, my disappointment all stems from what it built up to, since what I was thinking was gonna happen was so much more grandiose then what actually transpired
I feel like many people are using this as an overrepresented character rather than overrated. Big names like Cloud and Sephiroth make sense as overrepresented, but as overrated I think they get plenty of discussion on their faults. I believe a truly overrated character is someone like Beatrix. A character often requested as part of the party and who is given an excellent introduction as a counterpart to Steiner and disc 1 boss. Only to find themselves committing genocide and facing very little repercussions for this act. A lot more could have been explored there but the narrative becomes so Zidane-focused. Which leads to this often requested party member just sort of existing after a while but played up as important.
Not that it makes up for the whole genocide thing, but...Beatrix has the best damn theme music of that game so she does have that going for her
She sure does. A banger that helps her seem better than she actually is as a character.
Vivi theme would like to say a word. Especially if you extend that to BMV since it's the same motif
She was never played up as important by the narrative after fat blue whale dies. Wym? With what little relevance she had, she played only a few parts as the Alexandrian general.
She has some pretty pivotal moments as she’s one of Dagger’s main confidants, her appearance near the end, and her actually being in the party. Regardless, this is about her being overrated by the fanbase as a whole. Which is why I’ve detailed her here rather than as “most plot-relevant character”.
I love you for this! 😍
My vote is either increase image resolution enough for for the text to be legible or choose a font that is legible at that resolution.
Yeah I do this in a very makeshift way; I make a table in Google docs and insert text and images, then zoom out and snip it, format it into an image and paste it here. Due to the zooming out, the quality isn't great, unfortunately.
I reckon Sephiroth. So over-used, over-exposed, over-played and over-marketed that he can't possibly ever live up to any of his hype no matter his quality.
Sephiroth is heavily carried by the mystery around him. Once you lift all the mysteries, he's just Edgy Swordman McEdgyEdge.
Which was the point of and another element of story telling 7 deconstructs. Strip away all the mysteries to him and you just get a sore loser with abandonment issues who is gonna flip his shit when he realizes he acts like his father he despises.
"...strip away all the mysteries to him... " So pretty much his introduction and portrayal in remake...
And lets be honest many fans who hold ff7 so dear were at the time it released in a age were they thought edgy swordman mcedgyedge is the coolest shit
With a hint of McMomma'sBoy
You're saying Edgy Swordman like it's a bad thing when being an edgy swordman is like the entire base of this franchise (and I think that is cool and good).
This!!! He had enough charisma to stay interesting in his own game, but good lord, how incredibly boring he becomes the second he receives any screentime outside of original VII. He is simply not that deep or interesting to give any meaning to that awful amount of appearances he has.
Exactly. I couldn't roll my eyes hard enough when they shoehorned him into remake, even.
Ay hey hey. My boy Johnny made it
A surprise to be sure, but a welcome one!
Kefka is the most overrated for me. I find it hard to pinpoint a hero that is overrated as the villains get much more attention in my opinion.
I find Kefka to be pretty overrated and Sephiroth over exposed with how he is used in Remake and Rebirth. Kuja is the true GOAT
The way people talk about Kefka like he is some full on nietzschean shakespearen masterclass villian. Then you see him in 6 and it's just like 1 comment about dreams when he dies. I liked him. But he was pretty underwhelming if you go off of this subs praise of him.
I think the reason he's good isn't that he is some deep character or anything. It's the context surrounding him that makes him a fascinating villain. He was Gestahls' evil puppet. Gestahl could commit casual war crimes and engage in whatever unsavory business he wanted, then blame it all on kefka while *claiming* he had nothing to do with it. The game propped Gestahl up as the bbeg and kefka as that mid level reoccurring boss you'd eventually dispatch before moving on. To see him pull off that switcheroo was such a twist that my unassuming 10 year old mind couldn't see coming. There's another argument that kefka is the only villain to arguably win and achieve his goals, which idk he didn't ultimately beat the party but the world is fucked so I really don't know. Revisiting the game as an adult, the reason I like him is he's a bit of a response to the post-modern whiny crap that comes around every few years. You have the characters doing their typical "maybe-I'm-not-the-good-guy" shtick, then kefka just laser blasts a village of orphans some other evil shit and the characters go "Wait never mind. Objective evil 100% exists, let's go stop it."
That's another thing that I think is overhyped about him. He doesn't "win". He gets one over on the party by becoming a god. But his goal is to destroy everything. Which he doesn't succeed at. He kills a lot of people and almost wins. But by that logic don't Ardyn and Ultima also "win". Ardyn takes over the world and Ultima basicaly takes over the world at the end of 16.
He's just a weird dude with homicidal tendancies.
"Blank" was my default character name for YEARS after playing FFIX as a kid.
Lightning for sure, in all 3 games
Kefka
Came here to say this. Glad I’m not the only one who thinks this!
Lighting for sure
Agreed. She was a good fit in 13 as the most prominent member of an ensemble cast, but simply didn't have the charisma* or gravitas to carry a full game by herself and her scenes in 13-2 were flashy but empty. In a way she reminds me of Squall without the internal monologue. * That's not meant as a criticism of Ali Hillis' voice acting, just that the character is very reserved and guarded.
Kefka, hands down. He's fine, but the way people talk about him, you'd think he was the greatest character in all of fiction.
Tifa Lockhart, she wouldn't be half as popular if she wasn't a big booba lady. In fact people would be massively critical of her original FF7 story with the intentional secret keeping and delusion feeding and just never telling Cloud despite knowing all along. I've seen her storm ahead in character popularity polls over really deep and loved and important characters which is astonishing to me. Like the one on this subreddit last year she was like number 3 under Yuna and Vivi like WTF. If she was a gruff looking guy and not a hot girl tons of people would be like "Eugh I HATE Tifa for stringing Cloud along/Tifa lied to Cloud I hate them!" like they do with Cait Sith but if Cait Sith was a hot girl they'd forgive them. Which I think proves that with Tifa, its mostly about her looks as to why she's so beloved, and not her character arc/personality, which is actually one of a quite deceptive character in the original.
Yeah no Tifa came second on that poll which shocked me. Very surprised she beat out Cloud, who is much more better written, who came third.
It was second!? Thats even worse! So people think she's BETTER than Yuna, Auron, Balthier, Emet-Selch, Cloud, Tidus, Zidane, Aerith, Squall, Laguna etc. The list goes on? That she has a better personality, stronger character arc, better character development, even better gameplay mechanics than all of them? And it's not because she's got massive booba?
Yeah it’s very surprising. She’s not a bad character per say but she’s most definitely not deserving of 2nd place
Yeah she's drastically improved in the remake and upgraded from just a good character to a great one, but even Remake Tifa isn't second place in the WHOLE series IMO
Agreed
No tifa is popular because she’s tifa lol. She could have flattest chest on earth and she would still be popular cause she’s has a good character and is important to the narrative
Kefka is far more overrated than Sephiroth and their other peers as a main villain.
Kefka. “Greatest villain of all time” talk… way overblown.
Kefka. Everyone acts like he's the best because he "destroyed the world" yet the world is functioning pretty well. Most towns exist, people buy expensive (if haunted) art, high gil auctioning takes place and your whole party survives (if you wait for Shadow) Also the "God of Magic" gets taken down easily by regular humans with no real plan other than, go to the big tower.
You mean all post-apocalyptic societies don’t have flourishing opera houses?
Ultimecia erased existance. Beats it in every form.
I wish Kefka was more present in the World of Ruin. Nah, he’s chilling in his tower. He can wait and not anticipate an aerial attack. IMO music sold his treachery.
I was going to say Y’shtola is overrated, but considering nobody else has named her yet I’m like… damn, maybe she’s just rated.
There was a thread the other day either here or the FFXIV sub where someone asked who was the character from FFXIV that equates to the same level of fame as Cloud or Sephiroth and most said Y'shtola when the real answer is none of them. Nobody outside of XIV players know who she is
Fair, but to me that just means she isn’t over-represented. She can still be overrated among the player base. But if she’s not, she’s not! I could be wrong.
Kefka. Most of his hype seems to revolve around the fact that he "won" by devastating the world into ruin (even though he still ultimately lost in the end, failing to both physically defeat the party and to crush the spirit of humanity.) But really though, basically any other main villain from the series could have done what he did. He betrayed his leader who appeared to be incapable of defending himself, pushed some statues around, and then stood in the middle to absorb godlike powers.
None of which was planned also. It was in a fit of rage. I don't get the way people wax poetically about him at all
Cloud.
Cloud is definitely one of the most overrated characters. It isn't that he's a bad character. He is, in fact, quite good. But overrated, by definition, has to be popular.
Kefka. Mateus does everything Kefka does, but better, and isn't an overbearing psycho when he does it.
Lightning I can't voice my opinion properly of why really as it has been a while since I played the trilogy. Her personality is really distant and cold and I dont recall warming up to it much by the end. The best word that comes to my mind about her is unnatural. She doesn't feel like a real person at times but just "a cool character doing cool things", when let's say someone like Sazh, Snow and Hope feel alive and I think plenty people can relate to. She does have her moments in character interactions though so it's not like she is all bad but this is about overrating characters I honestly would say that Lightning is the worst or 2nd worst character of the main casts in the whole trilogy of XIII. We have other strong female characters in the series that are better done like Yuna or Celes
How can she be overrated if most FF fans seem to hate her (I like her)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/FinalFantasy/comments/15dn11z/final\_fantasy\_character\_rankings\_according\_to/](https://www.reddit.com/r/FinalFantasy/comments/15dn11z/final_fantasy_character_rankings_according_to/) can see here that she does have a larger fanbase at least in Japan. And I think after Cloud, Lightning is the next main character that has had the most publicity with the irl collabs and having 3 games where she is and all Popularity does not take into account something being overrated though. You could have a character that 90% of people hate but still say that the 10% who like them are overrating it. (idk if overrated can be used in this sense, it is just how I see it)
The amount of hate Lightning gets means she isn't overrated. She's got growth and character, but so many people just absolutely hated FFXIII that she's a casualty of that hate.
you...You will begin to cough in three days (/j) But in all seriousness, as a Lightning stan, she's definitely the most (if not, one of the most) blatantly disliked characters. Even in the poll results you replied to someone else with, where she's most popular in Japan, she's even still at the bottom of that list :/
I don't understand how people call Lightning distant and cold unless they straight up haven't finished the game. She's that way in the beginning but she starts changing in CH4 and is on upward trend for the rest of the game in terms of how she treats the party. She's starts treating Hope well and in bonding with him accepts that she screwed up with Snow, later apologizes to Snow, and then tries to cheer him up when he's feeling hopeless. [The part towards the end of the game in Sulyya Springs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRlIzdXN0xQ) perfectly captures the growth in their relationship. Like yes, she's a more reserved character, but she starts warming up the party relatively early in the game. This happens directly in cutscenes shown to the player in the game.
Lightning starts as angry brat at beginning of game; then just turns into white noise as opposed to anything resembling a leader character. An attempt at replicating Cloud, which not only missed the point of Cloud but made her come off more like Squall without any of Squall's leadership moments. X-3 made her dull and emotionless then gives her a quest requiring emotion to care about. But...baffingly enough, I do like her in the Dissidia games. I don't know, I feel like on retrospect; it's the writing in the character rather than the character itself. She's unnecessarily aggro at the wrong times; her attempts at being caring just falls so flat, akin to manipulation as opposed to actual caring. Girl's as tender as a boulder, so I can't believe she cared about Serah more than Snow did.
Lightning is one of the most divisive characters in the series. She's more underrated if anything because people let there dislike of XIII or lightning and say she has no character or any growth and it's fine if you didn't like it but to say she lacks is just hate.
True she is divisive. It's hard to critisize XIII or its characters cause the vocal hater group has kinda ruined any form of legit critical talk of the game. I for example think XIII is a pretty good game and XIII-2 is one of my favorites in the entire franchise
Kefka
Lightning - no doubt about it.
Lightning
Kefka
Kefka has always been overrated to me. He just never clicked with me, but lots of people always act like hes the best villain.
Zack Fair.
Kefka - he's discount Joker who I already think is an overrated character to begin with. Which is fine because FF6 is an ensemble cast game and wanted to divert it's focus to the party. But the fan base talks about Kefka like he isn't just shallow evil clown.
Zack
Zack for sure
Lightning.
This is so wrong. Tells alot of the community. I can finally say "your boos mean nothing, Ive seen what you cheer for"
[удалено]
This! I've feel like I'd been taking crazypills because everyone else around me seemed to have had a totally different experience with Haurchefant's death than me. I had no attachment to him from what the story gave, so his death didn't hit emotionally at all. His father's reaction was tearjerky, but not the death itself.
Balthier. I do like the guy but people be riding him too hard
Lightning
hottake, Yuna She felt extremely flat to me as a character, yet people can't stop singing praise and have her be one of the best protagonist (yes she's protag for X-2) in the series. She's not complex, she's just an overly kind person who dares not voice out herself in afraid of troubling others. And her relationship with Tidus is super random, she just suddenly get close with him for no apparent reason and boom! She's in love! At least rikku have more compelling reason for me to connect with Tidus.
That was intentional. Her whole life she was preparing to die, knowingly making the sacrifice. So she would want to be as blank as possible to not botch it at the end, like some summoners she meets during her journey. Her personality couldn't develop because she tried to be distant. The reason she is such a good mc is because you see her growing to love life and still pushing through to her death, knowingly. And that's also the great thing about Tidus and Yuna: interaction of one full of life and the endless possibilities Yuna is suddenly considering.
Especially in x-2 you see her struggling and breaking out of her , very relatable, trait of getting used for her kindness and helpfulness by others. And that she ultimately has her own goals and does her own decisions. EVEN if they aling with other people's desire. But that they are her own decisions still. Tbh for me the best written character, cause every struggle of her feels sooo relatable. Yeah no, I think snow, vannille or other very stereotyp-y written characters are way worse.
Yuna has become overrated with the narrative that She was the main character. Like no Tidus is the main character without him maybe Yuna is lucky enough to make it to Zanarkand and be just another sacrificed summoner.
i know i will get downvoted but aerith. if she had never died in the original she would have been mid tier and not many will have cared about her.
All these people saying cloud or sephiroth when youre all completely forgetting about Zack lmao
Tifa. Find another waifu
lightning
Cloud, sorry I had to say it. He is a good character, but not good enough to be the poster child of FF imo
Zenos.
drab screw quickest degree carpenter wistful sip head mountainous rude *This post was mass deleted and anonymized with [Redact](https://redact.dev)*
Beatrix. Character evolution too hasty, seems to simply change personality suddenly; as a playable character she is much weaker than as a boss.
Lightning.
It's Fran. Now, I don't dislike Fran, however she's basically just a slightly worse Kimahri. Except she's really hot. And people talk about her like she's one of the best characters in the series, and react like her appearing in stuff is the coolest shit ever. I'm not gonna deny that she is a beautifully designed character (they're one of the coolest "matriarchal warrior race" types I've ever seen), and well enough scripted/acted for what she is. But she's ultimately just a fairly quiet henchman type, and her story is mostly just Balthier kicking her right in the Bechdel test. The character design has carried her ongoing popularity.
im gonna be crucified for this but sephiroth
Loving seeing my ffix crew get the love they deserve. Idolised blank since the first time i saw him sacrifice himself. Chad
Too early to say Clive?
Overrated? Kefka.
I'd have to say Kefka as overrated. He is a great villian but holy shit. No need to hype him up so much. I know he is very evil and his music I amazing but everyone I talk to about FF mentions him way more than Sephiroth or Seymour.
Tifa in the original. She can be summed up as the “kind and caring girl next door” with no other aspect to her character. She has absolutely no character arc of her own independent of Cloud. All of her “development” is about her feelings regarding him. She is a wish fulfillment character.
Beatrix from FF9 she was a beast but kind of meh… a sephiroth wanna be lol
Clive
Cloud
My vote is on Vaan. He’s overrated in the sense that SQEX themselves have made him the poster child of XII, but he was largely inconsequential to the story. Ashe was far more integral to the story, and everyone’s favorite Leading Man was more useful in bringing her closer to her goals than Vaan was.
I'd hand it to Kefka imo. Out of all PSX titles 6 is the one I haven't played growing up. I've heard of course lots of praise about the game and especially the villain, so I had high expectations for Kefka going in when I finaly started to play it. Let's just say the fans over sold how he was written and it came off shallower than I anticipated. Don't get me wrong though, I still love 6 in terms of story and what it had to offer. Out of all FFs it's one you could truly call an ensemble cast. The villain just felt too underwhelming after I've heard lots of praise about him.
As someone who played 6 when it was 3 on SNES back at it's launch, and multiple times since, I still like Kefka. However, it's because he's NOT a deep villain. So many are written with these deep, complex, "sad boy" stories that require you to peel back the layers to understand. Then when you get there you might even empathize with them (Sephi or Kuja), but not Kefka. He's straight up just a simple psychopathic megalomaniac who had very powerful magic after infusion so he became the emperors right hand. Then he used said magic to kill off opposition and the emperor to gain more power. He's a super simple villain with no reason to empathize with him. That's at least my take on it. Hence why I think, for villains, ones like Sephi or Kuja are overrated because they're typical "sad boy" tropes from anime, even though I personally love Kuja and his dynamic with Zidane and how everything plays out with Garland.
Maybe part of why Kefka didn't stuck with me is because he felt like a rehash of Joker, not just because of the clown part but the just evil with no reasons shtick too.
Sephiroth all the way
Everything of FFX is sooo overrated
Tifa - She's not even the most interesting heroine in her own game let alone the series. She embodies the worst traits of a heroine who's all about the MC to the detriment of her own arc. Her crowning moment is doing something for Cloud. Imagine if someone like Yuna's most important point in the story was not about her Summoner's Journey but instead propping up Tidus. The series has other much better written female characters. Despite this people act like she's so amazing because she's attractive (in looks and in traits such as being shy and caring to a fault) "wife material" who always supports Cloud no matter what. She's the boring girlfriend character, but hidden in a monk's attire instead of being the typical mage.
Tifa is the perfect example of overrated, I’ve seen her get higher placements in popularity polls than Cloud who has a better character development and story. Either Tifa or Sephiroth have to win this they are way to overrated.
Tifa
I think Zidane is overrated. His character arc did nothing for me.
Tifa is overrated as hell
Tifa
Tifa or Sephiroth
I haven’t been very invested in the FF series yet (read I only ever played one of them because I’m too young and too broke) but I do look forward to getting to know blank, looking like a good character so far
Yeah Blank is amazing! He unfortunately isn’t too prominent (featured) of a character though but the scenes he’s part of are always great.
Listen, I love Beatrix as much as the next guy. Super cool design, incredible theme music, overall cool gal. But she also spends most of the game all-in participating in heinous shit and her “redemption” does very little to tilt her karma needle back into the green. So yeah, I vote Beatrix.
Clive and Noctis are contenders, since they both end up being their worlds messiahs, which I always thought took a lot of tension out of the plot. At least Lightning had a bit of agency in her skill and development.
Lightning is for sure the most overrated. That or Cloud.
Lightning
Can I get a blank template of this pls?
Yeah sure! If you just click on my post history, round 1’s template should be completely blank.
Thank you.
No problem
The "I hate popular things" group went wild
Lightning
So sick of the ffvii haters. Zidane is such a meh protagonist and you all have the nerve to say that cloud is overrated? This sub is just filled with ffix fans
Man I am the biggest FF7 fan, no hate, but Zidane has personality and a seemingly similar and cool unknown background. Cloud is the right character for FF7, but the dude is just plain blah once you peel back the layers of the game. If I had to choose from the two it would be cloud, but the real choice is Noctis. I hate that game/character with a burning passion. That or Balthier, he isn't that cool and Ashe is the real main character.
Vincent Valentine...
Isnt it ironic how most of the highest upvoted comments are characters from FFVII
Most overrated would either be Kefka, Cloud, Aerith, or Sephiroth.
Most overrated is definitely Sephiroth... But he's got such pretty hair
Tifa Lockheart I’ve seen her get first place in many character ranking over many other characters who not only did way more than her but also had better character development.
The amount of Zack slobbering from the FF7 team lately is ridiculous. I completely get wanting to make him more of a character in subsequent media than just a plot device as he was in the originals, but WOW has he become waaayy too front and center lately. Also agreed on anyone who said Tifa. Its definitely mostly her looks.
Cloud by far.
To be fair, most over rated is going to come from the TOP game in the series (the game even people that dont play Final fantasy know.) That leaves Cloud and sephiroth, if we are going by JUST OG then it can only be cloud (even though Cloud is my favorite character in FF games)
Cloud. By far.
Sephiroth. No question. Even in the Remake project he's just totally overexposed and less interesting so his presence can be marketed more. Never really felt his motivations were THAT interesting and I feel even more strongly about that now it's mutated into some timeline-altering battle to remain relevant.
Cloud
All of FFX
Tifa, she is good but she isn’t the absolute unit that people make her seem not gameplay wise or character wise.
If you guys dont pick Rinoa's aussie/collie mix Angelo for best girl, and Shadow's doberman Interceptor for best boy I'ma be very disappoint. Edit oh but Umbra and Pryna too... So many dogs
Tidus
Most overrated should be Squall. All he does is whine, but to listen to the FFVIII fans, you'd think he was the second coming.
Cid