Ones that take it seriously, train, stay in shape and are professional, I absolutely do not look down on them at all. They're an asset to their community. Now, the neckbeards who do it for the shirt and a blue light in their truck, they're an embarrassment.
All this applies to career firefighters too. I don't care how long they've been on the job, if they refuse to train seriously or don't stay in shape for the job, GTFO, you have no business in this profession.
This is the correct answer. Honestly I respect the shit out of the vollies that are actually good at their job. I don't think I would do it. And I would take any one of them that actually wants to be there over some of my own guys that are recliner slugs
depends on local laws and your PD chief. A lot of vollies I know run green and white, and in smaller rural communities it's known if a car has its hazards on and honkin he's a vollie.
All state based! In PA itās blue & white or just solid blue unless youāre any type of chief then itās red.
[Hereās](https://www.extremetacticaldynamics.com/knowledge-base/state-statutes/) a list of the emergency light laws for every US state :)
Absolutely Florida is pretty much an entirely professional state we only have maybe three departments in the entire state that are volunteer and my standard is the same regardless of if you get paid or not. If you're doing it because it's your calling as a civil servant You train you work your ass off You're the hardest working one on the fire scene then I'll consider you my brother if you're just doing it so you can ask for discounts at fast food places then you're a joke to me.
They do everything at the county level as opposed to town or township. So even though the county may be somewhat rural. The whole county is one department. A lot easier to have fewer stations but with all paid staff. Alot of places in the east and Midwest. Fire protection is done at the town and township level. So you may have 15 volunteer departments in 1 rural county that each have 10 members and sometimes get a truck rolling. Where if they just had a county department they could have 5 or 6 well placed station with an engine and ambulance staffed at each one with cross staffed tankers and 1 rescue for the county.
Depends. Where I'm from we try to be on scene in like 5 minutes. Some of the volunteer departments surrounding us you may wait 25 minutes for them to show up. There's no standard as long as they get on the radio and mark in route before getting 3rd dispatched.
We had an area that pulled out of mutual aid with the city due to money concerns. A large house just beyond the city limits caught fire and it took close to a half hour before anyone arrived on scene. We could see the fire from our station. The owners of the house, part of the community that eliminated mutual aid from the city due to the cost, tried unsuccessfully to sue the city.
You are either in, or you are out. It's like trying to buy insurance after a car accident lol. I'm not glad they lost their house, but I am glad they lost the frivolous lawsuit.
Florida has standards based on rural versus urban. I don't remember the exact times but my urban agency was like 8 minutes or less for hot response, and an hour for cold response. In the rural areas of that county (Which was a very small outlying percentage) it was 20 minutes for hot response and no expectation for cold.
I work fully rural now and we don't even have expectations because we are so rural. I've had a 55 minute response to a cardiac arrest.
Same with Massachusetts.. 80% is full time union FDs and the other 20% is paid on call. There might a handful of volunteer FDs out west, but itās very small. I have very little perspective on working with a volunteer FD. My perspective is of VFD is purely YouTube.
The paid on call FDs usually are made up of full time FFs from surrounding FDs.
Started paid/on-call here in MA. Some of the best firefighters Iāve worked with have been the guys that are on call. I think like many have said on here, it really depends on the person. There are certain departments I kind of look down on just because of their history.
Small world. I never did call/vol, but my 1st full time job was a combination FD. There was some great guys but there was also shit bags too and Prob why I have a bias because that was my experience at the start. It was actually enough to drive me away to a FD that was all full time.
Example: building fires 2 call guy show up and contribute 0, stand there doing nothing, donāt help pick up, bitch thatās itās taking too long to clear, get back to the station, put their gear away and fuck off. Didnāt help clean or put the rigs back in service.
Example: we had local art students come in and paint morals on the walls at the station. One call guy then bitches that he wasnāt included in this decision and he wouldāve painted an American flag but no one ever asked him thatās why he never did it in the 10 years heās been there.
Example: 3rd medical in a row, PT refusal, I asked this call guy to grab the computer and get the refusal and he said āno I donāt do paperwork, Iām only here to help the full time staff out in a pinchā.
Example: trainings, few call guys would bring food and coffee to training and leave it on the tables for someone else to clean.
Florida still has a good amount of volunteer and paid on call.
But in some metropolitan areas and parts that have seen large growth have career or combination departments. You can find some smaller volunteer/poc departments in metropolitan areas that can handle 90% of their calls themselves (they likely contract out EMS or have paid ambulance crews) and would request mutual aid for anything larger than a room and contents.
But even many career departments in Florida run shockingly light crews.
Florida is just such a medical state and the people here are elderly and have a lot of legitimate stuff going on with them. So the cities and counties just do impact fees and levy taxes to make sure EMS is handled by the fire department as in all hazards approach and everything is career.
Correct One of the examples is Pasco and pretty much their system is you can't be a volunteer with them unless your career with another department of Florida. And then Lauderdale by the sea that is essentially just all their professional guys that want to keep training and playing around after retirement.
I donāt care where you work or volunteer, if you look and/or act like a douche, youāre a douche. If you look and act professional, youāre a professional (regardless of pay or not).
I recently retired and 33 years taught me dumbasses walk among us regardless if thereās an IAFF sticker or the truckās window or not
I donāt look down on them at all. Iāve been at a bushfire next to our volunteer guys and gals and I am just amazed they do such hard work for free. Zero hate! Im in australia if that makes any difference.Ā
The phrase āmarine corps style of attitudeā made me cringe to my core as a former marine or ex marine or whatever im supposed to call myself.
I donāt look down on vollies but I wouldnāt expect them to be as proficient as a career guy. Obviously there are exceptions. But if you do something more, youāre going to be better at it for the most part. I applaud yāall for working for free, thatās wild as shit to me. Especially in a dangerous occupation.
Yeah same. I hope he meant the professionalism and work ethic. No one likes that overly motivated guy that still wears a high and tight and acts like he just got off depot.Ā
I always had mixed feelings. I was career for 25 years. Worked for a mid size dual department. We assisted with a few volunteer departments. We would show up to their fires and it was a disaster. To much freelance. Pump ops was a joke. General fireground knowledge. While I appreciate folks who dedicate their time for free, I wouldnāt work a serious incident with you. Itās hard to replace years of training/experience with the same crews.
Ah, I didn't know you'd interacted with my old volley department! Gawd that was a shitshow, glad I got out when I did. I was that one weirdo who did fire stuff so I could do medical, rather than the usual way. I'm EMS-only these days and even though I learned a lot...that department was very much not the place to be.
As you know, some do some goofy shit and treat it like a personality rather than a job. That said, I generally respect volunteers quite a bit, though I do tend to want to know more about their actual training and experience before I give much weight to their opinions and suggestions.
I do both so im biased but not usually. I grew up on a pretty decent volunteer department and thereās only a few around us and theyāre all reasonably squared away so I never understood where the volunteer memes and stuff came from.
Then I started seeing some of these guys in northern New Hampshire, Pennsylvania and other areas (not trying to direct it at anyone in particular) and at least understood what they were making fun of. But at the same time I try to have sympathy for some places because at the end of the day, they donāt know any better and nobody knows how to show them better. They donāt know any different yet theyāre still trying to serve the town.
There are definitely some that know theyāre underperforming, lazy, behind on times etc and still donāt give a shit to make things better - thatās where I get annoyed.
Volley here
I happen to be in an area that has some of the most dense volley depts in the nation. And also close enough to NYC that we get a lot of active FDNY members (paid FDNY by day, volley at home by night).
Iāve been doing this 10years, served as company captain, and obviously had/have the chance to learn from very senior career FDNY guys daily. Still, I am just a volley. I know Iām just a volley. Iām proud to be a volley. But I will never hold myself to the same level as a career person. Everytime I meet a career person from elsewhere and someone mentions that Iām also a FF, I always start by saying āyea Iām just a volley thoughā.
Itās the volleys who think theyāre seasoned the same as FDNY (or other large city) firefighters and think they are on the same level that give volleys a bad name. Im sorry johnny volley but these career people are running 30+ calls on a 24hr shift, seeing 5-6 big fires or more a month. Youāre 300 calls per year and 3 fires does not put you on the same level
Minus 10 years experience and being an officer, I could have written this. Iām little further from NYC so we donāt have FDNY guys, but we have a lot of career guys from cities and larger towns. Our chief is former career. We have a former chief who was a DC in a small city and now a DC in a local larger paid town. Having professionals in the dept is so critical.
There is a big volly culture in my area. Most of our local department are really good with a few notable exceptions.
I would never compare myself to the career guys, especially the city guys. Itās just a whole different well when youāre dealing with multi story apartments, high rises, more commercial properties, industrial space, etc. I think we do what we do really well, and obviously there are dangerous. It requires skills and knowledge, but itās not the same.
I started as a paid on call firemen and moved to full time.
I donāt look down on volunteers perse. The ones that put $3,000 in lights on their $1,500 car and were the douchey t shirts and stuff are complete skids. How you present yourself and your dept, your training and such is what makes you professional. Unfortunately for many volunteer depts they lack training, they represent the profession and themselves poorly which makes people look down on them. But rest assured thereās d bags that do the same on the full time side as well, itās just noticed a little less
I look down on any Firefighter that is a detriment to their community and their Department. This can be through their attitude, letting themselves get fat, not staying up to date on their training, etc. if you donāt take the job seriously like it demands you do then yeah - fuck you. This applies to vollies and professional.
We get a lot of that in NY. Have had many say "I've put in my time" and are just there for their Losap check.
Even to the point they will sit down the road and wait to show up after the engine leaves.
I'm a career FF who runs with two volunteer departments pretty much once or twice a week.
One department completely has their shit together. They have pretty high training requirements for people, especially give these are people who are volunteering in their free time. We actually do cross training with them too. They probably run as almost as many calls as us, and have quite a lot of experience. Most importantly, they get shit done and frankly you wouldn't know they were a volunteer department unless someone told you. We actually work really well with their department and I really like these guys and gals.
Then there's the other department that has a bunch of out of shape potatoes who are about to be my next cardiac arrest patient at any minute. They never wear their gear, and have no clue what the hell is going on, ever. They are pretty obsessed with everyone knowing they are firefighters, and not very interested in training to be be a firefighter. Guess how I feel about this one.
Hey-O.
Iām a retired professional firefighter, and now I volunteer.
I have a lot of respect for people willing to put their ass on the line by volunteering to serve their communities.
I'm not gonna get into the fit for fire, the old neck beards that do it for a blue light in the truck, etc. Everyone already explained that. I'll explain it in simpler forms. Paid FFs want to see more PAID FFs. We understand the middle of nowhere, Volleys are needed. What pisses me off is high population suburbs that don't do fully staffed houses cause they feel like they can get away with the volley rig. And these volley dorks convince the suburb that everything is OK, because their company can handle anything. I would love to see some more CAREER PAID FFs in those areas. Plain and simple. There's a select few volley houses that can respond, and work as good as most career houses(kentland etc). But the truth is most of those busy Volley houses that can perform like a fully staffed career House, are full of career paid firefighters that love the job so much, they go and volunteer outside the city just to get some more. So that's the thing right there.
Also, stop being so firegay about everything. There's a difference between knowing everything and showing everything.
The town I live in the professionals make 110k+ a year an only work 9-5 , so they do almost no work town of 5000) while itās the volunteers who get all the real work. The entire town actually thinks the pros are a joke( they are)
Our volly department has career FF's come in weekly to train with us. It's a good program. I don't think they'd do it if they felt disrespect toward us.
Volunteer is how I started so itās in my roots and I always have respect for the ones that actually put in work. Unfortunately there is a large population of volunteers that are nothing more than T-shirt jockeys who give them a bad rep.
Come to Germany.
Most of the firewatches here are volunteers. Professional firewatch is needed by law in towns bigger than 50'000 citizens, airport and some company (chemical...).
Many professional fire(wo)men are volunteers in their hometown too. Often in leading positions. And as far as I know they are very happy to have them. Sure there are some, only doing it for the "fame", but there is no difference in education for volunteer compared to professional.
But besides the markings on the trucks and so, I see no difference or any kind of strange behaviour. So I would say, for most of them, no, they dont look down on them.
Are you sure there is no difference in education?
Squad leader (8+1 firefighters):
F-III Volunteer 10 days of training
B-III Professional 42 days of training
That can be possible. I'm not that deep into it.
I should have made it more clear, that I meant the training for the "basic" firemen. And for sure, professionals have more training. But the basic courses (comms, eq....) are the same. Same trainers, some schools.
Also not the case, at least in Hessia.
Don't get me wrong, I am a volly. The professional firefighters are trained a lot more intensifly. You can look it up at hlfs.de.
I do not, as a whole, no. I recognize that when it comes to unpaid work, sometimes you're just going to have to get what you get and be happy about it.Ā
70% of the US is covered by volunteers. I've worked with some absolutely jam up vollies that I would hire in an instant, and I've worked with some that are the sorriest excuses for firefighters I've ever seen.Ā
The key is remembering that pay or no pay, the fire doesn't give a shit. People in need don't give a shit. You have taken on a great responsibility and you should treat it as such.Ā
I don't think it is reasonable to expect anywhere near the same capability in a modern, all-risk fire department from someone who trains and prepares in their spare time as someone who has the ability to train and perform their job as a full-time pursuit.
Hats off to all the volunteers who show up and work to help their communities. Continue to show up and do your best. My opening statement is general, and there are always exceptions.
I'm six years on a volunteer department myself, and being honest, find myself looking down on other volunteer departments even.
We're a large volunteer dept that provides mutual aid to 1 smaller career dept (about 100 firefighters) and 7 or 8 smaller volunteer departments (10-40 firefighters each) in our vacinity and borders.
Pretty much only the career department we mutual aid has their shit together. I am always so dissapointed when we provide MA to some department, show up, and some of the other dept firefighters are unable to operate their own trucks, not wearing their PPE, standing around getting in the way, gross safety violations galore everywhere, and being generally unprofessional through words, body language, actions, etc.
This frustration doesn't just apply to volunteers, though - I hold every firefighter to the same (low) standard:
1. Be safe
2. Train what you do
3. Be professional
We also have these issues my own volunteer department. Firefighters that refuse to do more than the twice monthly minimum training (half assed effort), aren't safe, and have no aspirations to improve, and only want to show up for a structure fire.
All said, I don't want to undermine the many, many, many committed volunteers at my department, or other department, , that know their limitations, train, train, train, and strive to be safe and professional (I love y'all). I'm fortunate and thankful we have volunteers who are committed to weekly training for several hours each time, provide staffing at the station, and strive to promote safety and professionalism.
Sincerely, a bitter volunteer who wants to raise the standard.
I think getting paid vs not getting paid isn't the difference that matters.
It's being a moron vs not being a moron. There are more volunteers and as such more volunteer morons but there are plenty of paid morons as well.
I've been on both but it feels like a National Guard Infantry unit trying to work along side 2/6 Fox Co. circa 2004 in Iraq.
The Marine Corps style attitude made me cringe.
Know how to do the job and actually do it and I won't look down on you. Also don't constantly tell me your war stories to look cool, I really don't care.
i was a volunteer for 4.5 years before going FT, i will always have a love and respect for the call company. however, there are always a handful of people that shit on anybody that ISNT a volunteer, that do like 10 calls a year, and make it their entire personality. those people are what ruin it for the rest of us
NJ volley. 6 departments in my city; 5 are volunteer with over 140 members. Obvious tensions between volley and paid. We got a shit ton of guys that have been volley for 40+ years, former paid or retired marshals; they keep us new guys straight so we donāt embarrass ourselves in front of the paid crew
Iām on a career department and still volunteer. The training and expectations I received at my vollie department were far superior to my career department. And the culture is better too.
Some examples, 1 person is expected to be able to throw a 28ā ladder at my vollie house, only expected to throw a 24ā solo where I work. My volunteer department views search as the first-due ladder companyās number 1 priority at almost any fire. My career job normally sends the 1st ladder to the roof, and only searches if thereās indications of victims - otherwise, the primary is done by the heavy rescue, which can be 10+ minutes away. Even things as simple as riding assignments and tools. My vollie dept always fills the rigs on fire runs in a specific, targeted way, to ensure predictability despite varying manpower on every run. And every riding position carries specific tools. My career job never has assigned tools, and itās a crapshoot whether or not the officer tells you what to grab, or just gets pissed at you 5 minutes later when you grabbed the wrong tool.
Even things like knowledge of operations is vastly different. At my vollie dept, I was trained to function as an officer immediately after getting off probation, and soon after taught to drive, because I can be riding in any spot on any given day. And with that, I learned far more about scene operations than I ever learned at my career job. At my career job, I barely think at all. I may make a minor decision here and there, but I exist to do the officerās bidding.
Really, I think what sums it up, if I had to go into a fire with 2 random guys from my volunteer department vs my career department, Iād always choose the volunteer department. Theyāre flat out better at firefighting. My vollie house trains harder and it shows.
Medicals are a different story. But no one likes those anyway
38 years paid and vollieā¦. Every rank from Firefighter, Engineer, Lieutenant, Division Chief, Deputy Chief, and CODā¦. Even was a USAR HazMat Team Manager. I worked suburban and major metro departments.
All I have to say is this: Fire wonāt ever ask whether you are paid or vollie as you make a push or a grab; neither will those we serve. The only way to gain respect on the job from me, or any other real firefighter is to be properly motivated, trained, and competent.
Do not be a boob, a t-shirt firefighter or a knife and forker (IYKYK).
My county is a combination department and Iād say about 1/3rd of the volunteers are just as good as the career guys, if not better. Then there are some that are just there for the tshirt and drop after about 18 months. Continuous cycle
I was a volunteer for 10 years and we were surrounded by staffed depts and we ran calls with them. We did our best to hold ourselves to a higher standard, not jumping off a rig with a beard and jeans with cowboy boots. We had to wear a normal uniform and look professional, we had weekly drill nights with very intense training. I never understood why full time guys hated volunteers until I became a full time guy and seen how many volunteer depts act and operate.
Do I hate volunteers, no I was one. I have to many issues at my full time place and in my personal life to worry about what some bearded dude does on the other side of the state.
As a volunteer of 10 years who ended up career, I don't dislike volunteers, but I am often embarrassed by them. Many lack professionalism, adequate training, and the presentation of a calm demeanor. My organization has "support" members who are generally FF1 only, some are also EMTs, but they all tend to be woowoos. They get overly excited on calls, make stupid mistakes because they're so high on adrenaline that they can't think straight, or speak out of turn with patients and family members. I know at one point I was like that too, which is why it embarrasses me. I try very hard to work with our support members to get them to a point that matches the professionalism of the career crews, because the other career crews will either refuse to work with them, or eat them alive. I don't judge them as a group, but rather as individuals, which should be how it is. However, once I have an opinion on someone, it is extremely difficult for them to change it, and directly reflects how I allow them to work when they're on my scenes.
I look down on anyone who doesn't take firefighting, as a whole, seriously, and only treats it as moments of clout. They are everywhere, career and volunteer. Unfortunately, I just see it more with volunteers, and there lies the stigma.
Hereāa my $00.02: Who cares what they think?
Iām a small town volley. I do it ācause if I donāt, who will? The department is short staffed. They need guys willing to train and show up. And I do both.
I donāt have any illusion that Iām at the same level as big city career guys. Nor do I need to be or want to be. If and when I ever meet someone who is a career guy, i donāt even mention that Iām a volley. I just say āIām an IT project manager.ā
But I will say thisā¦
We train at the junk yard with the cutters and spreaders routinely as we have a big highway that goes through our town. And last night (or this morning) I was paged at 2:20am and when we got on scene, we operated like a well oiled machine to cut a lady out of a car wreck. We were surrounded by emt, police, and family of the victim. And the way those family members looked at us and thanked us!
Wow.
I felt mighty damn proud.
Combination fire/EMS or combination vol/paid? My department was fire/EMS, I canāt tell you the number of times I made fire calls while riding the box. We had to keep our bunker gear and SCBAs with us at all times.
I will say, one of my happiest days was when I was in the department long enough to get totally off the box.
Yes and no.
I'm glad they exist, and in a sense they really are heroes doing a dangerous job for free just to protect and help their community.
On the other hand, there enough podunk volly houses that make all of them look bad and give everyone a bad reputation.
I also wish all vollys would quit or go on strike to make states pay them.
Fuck no. I respect the hell out of anyone who does this job on their own time for free. I think it's pretty awesome and you'll never catch me shitting on volleys, ever.
Career or volunteer competency and willingness to always improve and do better on the next call is about 95% of what I respect.
I donāt care if youāre a 30 year guy with experience out the ass. If you donāt take medical calls seriously or take fitness seriously youāre a liability.
Iāll take an in shape 2 year guy who gives a shit and wants to get better over the above 30 year guy all day. Career or volunteer.
I don't look down on them, I respect that they are giving their time to protect their community. On the other hand, I am fully aware of their capabilities. We are a paid urban department surrounded by volunteer suburban, occasionally if we have a big job they will come into town to cover our stations but we often send mutual aid around us. They are part time and do not train as we do, nor do they have experience in what they could face in my city, from what I've seen in my area many of them are much older and many of the younger ones are very overweight. I would not swap one of theirs for one of ours and expect them to perform, it would be setting them up for failure.
I started off as a volunteer at a combination, but mostly volunteer department in north Houston. Most of our paid staff worked for HFD. It was a well funded, well trained department with high expectations for its members. I ended up becoming a career FF/Paramedic in a city of around 300k.
I retired and moved to a very small East Texas city with a volunteer fire department. I met another retired FF from Houston at the post office who told me if I joined the volunteer FD, their lack of professionalism and training would just aggravate me. Many of our volunteers are obese, have beards and have woo woo lights all over their trucks. One of our volunteers took off out of our municipality and rolled his truck as he turned onto the main street on his way to a mutual aid call a mile or so down the road. Finally, the fire chief isnāt certified in anything and drives around in his personal red pickup, with lights and a city FD logo on the doors.
I wouldnāt join because I donāt want to be associated with an unprofessional organization, and Iām far from being arrogant, but I donāt think Iād be well received if I were to try make any suggestions regarding the department. I figure itās just better to stay away. The only fires Iāve seen them respond to, other than a stump I was burning and they sprayed AFFF all over, have burned to the ground. Iāve also had the get right up on my ass with their lights going.
I think it all depends on the department. If you have paid law enforcement, you should also have paid fire and EMS. As a paid FF, I worked rescue and hazmat. We trained on a very regular basis for fire, hazmat and rescue. I donāt see a volunteer being able to spend an adequate amount of time to become fully proficient in all aspects of the profession.
We also made a good hundred or more calls a month per shift. Everyone knew who was going to be on scene and what was expected from each individual on scene. When we made mutual aid calls, there were volunteer personal vehicles parked everywhere, and everyone seemed to have their own agenda. It wasnāt a team.
I do not, but I have witnessed this though. I volunteered with my local department for a while. Small town, 300 runs a year, but I also worked full-time not elsewhere. When I ran into the local union shop/city on runs, they all treated me like dog shit. It made me laugh though, I worked for a local and a department much bigger and busier than theirs, and most of them started as volunteers or part time at my local place. Itās amazing how people forget where they came from.
No way. We have a dude who comes by every now and then and does the evening half with us. He keeps up as well as, if not better, than anyone else. Problem for him though is that the city wonāt allow him to enter structure with us. But heās badass and more than capable
Hell no! In fact they have a lot higher respect from my uniform then we do ourselves, well atleast the ones that take it serious. You do have those bad apples every now and then but you can spot em from a mile away.
I donāt look down on them but I also understand what you get with them too and understand they donāt have the experience as us city guys and itās no fault of their own. They just donāt get the call volume and types of calls we do. We also train every shift year round. Just canāt compare someone whoās done 1-2 thousand calls a year as a department.
As someone who does both sides serve on a paid department and on a volunteer one. My volunteer department trains just as hard and is more professional and more committed than the paid department Iām on. But not every department is the same just my experiences
Honestly no I donāt, I spent many years as a volunteer before career. The training education and certifications are the same, volunteers just take a longer route to get fully certified because they have a job away from the station house that pays the bills at home. Career goes through an academy which is a faster track. Also volunteers face greater struggles then most career firefighters, those struggles are but not limited to lowers staffing numbers, sufficient secured water sources, and shoe string budgets. Yes there are those āvolunteersā who are T-shirt firefighters who only show up for parades and special events and those who only do it to strap on blindly lights and a siren on their POVā¦ which those guys do give the others a bad reputation. Unfortunately every department has one but a majority of the volunteers are hard working folks who get the certifications and are genuinely there for the community.
I mean if you think about they are doing the same job as a paid firefighter the only difference is they really just want to do it because they get paid little to none to do it. So in reality I have more respect for them. They donāt have to do it. Itās not there job. They do it because they really want to.
I do both and I donāt look down on volunteers. In fact, there are a handful of guys on my volunteer dept. I would rather work with than a handful of āprofessionalsā on my career department. On a side note, itās been my experience, the career guy out and about wearing a jacket with the giant union logo on the back is a shitty fireman.
The world would be on fire without Volunteers. I was paid and I started as a Vollie. There's some full-time guys and girls that are absolute wastes of oxygen and shouldn't be on the job but are safe because the Union protects them. Same goes for Vollies, good and bad.
nope. was one for a while. Also respond mutual aid for a couple areas that have volunteers. In fact one volunteer department has some of the best training facilities in the county and they support one of the fire academies.
in my county volunteer depts are more common.
Im both a volunteer and career and anyone that looks down on volunteers is just an asshole. Volunteers don't get the resources that career departments get. Since it's unpaid it's hard to find people that will give their time and energy for such a hard job.
āI bring the Marine corps style of attitude with me every dayā
So youāre a boot with no personality? As a volly, Iād hate being one who has to be associated with you.
Iāve worked with a lot and you guys are better than me! I donāt look down on volunteers at all, you guys are literally doing it for free, there are some that I canāt stand or make me cringe every time I see them but no I wouldnāt ever look down or think Iām better than you, thereās full time guys I donāt like or make me cringe too lol
Keep up the good work
When youāre a smaller career dept (2 stations) surrounded by volunteer depts you absolutely depend on them and appreciate them showing up to help. However when theyāre on YOUR departments incident they are under your IC. Meaning they operate the same as you operate. Hard for some to understand that at times but it always smooths out. Itās only by the book, not that hard
The majority of the volunteers I've had the displeasure of being around, gatekept everything. Which to a degree is understandable. I realize firefighters won't be welcoming to just anyone walking in off the street, and they give respect to those who earn it by training and staying in shape. That said, I went through recruit school and got certified early. Naturally, they all told me it didn't mean shit. After 5 years of attempting to train with them and always being relegated to catching a hydrant, (and when I'd ask to do more meaningful training I was always denied,) whenever there was a call, I'd get kicked off my own unit because they had more time in service and told I was a medic/rescue jockey and needed to stay in my lane. With a few exceptions, those volunteers worked really hard to maintain their little clique and ensure that not only was I not a part of it, I didn't train nor fight fire with them. These same guys made being a volunteer FF their entire personality, but always had only enough energy on a fire to make initial attack and then layed on a tarp in the front yard during salvage and overhaul. They looked like shit, passed around the same women that came around the station and lived to tell you how much better they are than you. I've had next to no respect for volunteers ever since.
That being said, the few "good ones" I was around had tremendous work ethic. They put a ton of effort into their training, their physical fitness, their appearance and their overall outlook on the job. They wanted to learn and more importantly, wanted to lift up others around them and help them learn too. In my lived experience, they were absolutely the minority though.
I did when i first started and thought i was the shit for being a big fireman in a big ghetto cityā¦but then you get olderā¦.more matureā¦and realize most volunteers probably know way more than you do š¤£
Itās a multifaceted issue really. There are volunteer departments in the vicinity of where I live and work. They donāt burn much, but when they do we will go mutual aid. When this happens I get to see questionable tactics, unprofessional characters, and overall chaos to another degree. Volunteers standing in the front yard trying to sneak a picture on their phone while the fire is still burning. Out of shape slobs who couldnāt run 50 yards, let alone effect a rescue (Yes iām aware career departments can have these people. I also hold them in low regard). Incoherent yelling on the radio, Etc. Then you head on over to social media and see all the cringe ālook at me, Iām a firefighterā posts on tik tok or facebook. Itās bad for the profession. Iām not saying there arenāt great volunteers out there. I know there are. I know a few. But the low barrier of entry makes it so the good volunteers are drowned out by the shitheads who are there for the story/attention. Then you hear people claim itās the āsame jobā or how they would put their volunteer department up against any career department and itās laughable. My department making >50,000 calls a year is not comparable to your department that is making <300 calls a year. I donāt hate volunteers. I think itās a noble thing to do and I understand not all communities can staff a career department. However, I think the volunteer system needs reformed a bit and their members need to be held more accountable.
A lot of what you mentioned has to do with the leadership of those departments. As a volunteer myself, I see this daily across some of our mutual aid volunteer departments. My chief holds us to high standards. We send everyone who is willing to academy to get their Proboard FF1&2. We send our members to any classes they want to attend to improve their skills and knowledge. We constantly hunt for grants and funds to purchase and upgrade equipment. We train regularly and well. We try to be as professional as possible. And it has worked well for us. We have the respect of the few career departments in our area to the point they will call us in for mutual aid and for station coverage if they catch a long worker.
By contrast, some of the other volunteer departments in the area are what you describe. Old farts that are out of shape and not qualified or trained to do much of anything on scene. These are the departments that we usually wind up putting their fires out for them, though by the time we get to them there isnāt much left. And itās because of poor leadership and a lack of drive to improve their departments.
Not about their ability to do the job, but I do think that the people who are firefighters without any financial remuneration are idiots.
It's an essential service that requires skills. If you're doing it for free then you're letting your government get away with not providing something that people need.
>you're letting your government get away with not providing something that people need.
You basically just described the current state of the US in general, lol.
Problem is, there is an awful lot of rural area in this country with small populations that donāt have the tax base to pay for a staffed department. Let alone do these areas have the call volume to justify said staffed department. A town of 1,500 with an average of 150 calls per year canāt afford, and doesnāt need a full time paid department. However they do still need and deserve fire and ems protection. Thatās where volunteer departments come in.
We have rural too.
Taxes from rich or higher populated areas subsidise the poorer/lower populated areas. For 150 calls per year, a paid per call/paid on call model is achievable.
As a volunteer, I hate when career guys treat all volunteers as if all of us are 300 pounds, whackers, and arrogant. A large majority of states require the same certifications for both vollies and career firefighters, so anybody who talks about us being "hobbyists" or "playing pretend" are usually outright wrong. Sure, some of us just barely passed the academy, are actually *are* 300 pounds or have a lighting package more expensive than our POVs, but not all of us are and if you think that vollies are not real firefighters then you're no better than you say they are
In some cases. Itās all about the ability to do the job and how you carry yourself. There are bad on both sides but usually way more with the volunteers.
Many career firefighters look down on volunteers. Many career firefighters are also lazy, out of shape, donāt train and get offended that someone does their job for free.
Others were just born, raised and work in areas where volunteer depts donāt exist and itās a completely foreign concept to them.
Unfortunately, volunteers get a bad rap for many reasons outside their control.
When I moved away from the city I worked in to the suburbs I tried to volunteer, they are ok but still have that seniority bully we know it all prove yourself probie attitude. I didn't walk in there with the attitude that I am career I know it all, I actually wanted to learn as my career department doesn't train enough. But it was too much to pledge all my off hours with their "club". I didn't want to get coffee after weekly truck checks I want to get home. I think they drive people away with their exclusive demeaning bs.
I know that those sorts of places exist but as someone who has been a volunteer for over half a decade, I haven't seen it yet. Heard about it though. We're a state wide agency so things might be a bit different there but that sort of business certainly isn't reflective of volunteer services as a whole. It's unfortunate that your experience was so negative.
I just think that volunteer departments should be begging for volunteers and not making it so difficult and exclusive. I understand you can't have untrained people only showing up to working jobs. You need qualified people to show up to the false alarm at 2am. But I was kinda shocked they asked me about my personal life on the "interview", Im like youre an extension of a public agency you cant ask these things, and they really didn't understand modern HR concepts.
Yeah that's nothing like the services around here. Sounds like that department is just making themselves redundant slowly. They'll learn the hard way.
Recruitment and retention is the name of the volunteers game.
I think the best analogy for ffs are mechanics. Some people are pros, and some just like to tinker in their garage. The garage mechanic will probably be fine if you just need to change your brakes, and thereās a couple garage mechanics I trust as much as any proā¦but 9/10 if you have something big, you want the professional. Itās nothing personal to your neighbor, but they donāt have the same level of training.
Volunteer departments donāt have the same level of training, weāve all heard an anecdotal story about some volunteer who could run circles around the salty pro, but to pretend like they do the same job hurts fire and ems as a whole and enables politicians and bean counters to continue to justify not funding an essential service.
Iām also a firm believer that 99% of fire departments should be dual fire/ems so take my opinion with a grain of salt
Definitely do not look down. It is admirable to want to help. But there is a very clear divide on the quality of service, and obvious experience. All citizens deserve the best service possible from a trained fit crew that responds very fast.
Yes I do and so do most firefighters I know. Reddit is never an accurate snapshot of any given population. Whatever any particular subreddit's consensus answer is, the opposite is probably true.
In all honesty, most of the time. But Iām also an asshole sometimes and Iām working on it. My experience with volunteers hasnāt been great but I have met some great ones. Those ones tend to go to career departments. I look at it like sports. You have your hobbyists, your ams/pro ams and your pros (i.e. menās rec baseball vs minors vs mlb) volunteer depts to me are a mix of the first 2. Those who want to be professional will. I started as a paid volunteer (daily stipend of $150). This department actually cut people who werenāt up to their standards physically and skill wise.
I have a skewed view of reality take it with a grain of salt. I also look down on departments who pay high and have low call volume with 99.9% being medicals and every oneās a medic first ff second.
I was volunteer for 2yrs before I got on full time. I donāt look down on volunteers, balancing a full time job, home life and volunteer firefighter is tough. Lazy/no commitment type of people are what bother me. Earn my respect and Iāll earn yours
I use to look down on industrial / airport type of fire stations until Iāve come to the realization being sleep deprived , with 90 % of call volume,
on an ambulance attending to people who canāt even help themselves has made me jealous as fuck that they sleep, train way more than me and have a way better QOL.
Since I got my start as a volunteer, And I still volunteer even though I am also a paid guy with a different dept. I will say no I don't really look down on volunteers. I do however get frustrated with the lack of professionalism A lot of them bring. When going to a conference or class and interacting with people I typically can tell the pure volunteer from the paid or combination guy.
Doesn't mean I look down on them where I live if it wasn't for volunteers we would have no fire coverage. I know some very jammed up firemen. Unfortunately the younger generation of volunteer firefighters at least in our area seem to think that a couple classes equals FDNY experience and knowledge.
The biggest areas where I see volunteers struggle as opposed to paid guys. Usually fitness, professional presentation, professional scene management, And then the basic skills most volunteers only practice twice a month at best. Whereas most paid guys have to practice every shift.
The differences do show through doesn't mean there should be any less respect for either one they're both doing the same job
Iād like to think I havenāt forgotten the volunteer department I came from. Most of the guys I work with also came from volunteer departments, and most of them didnāt either.
That being said, the difference between my municipal academy and the part-time FF1 class I did as a volunteer were VERY clear once I got on the job. Even the radio etiquette/discipline I hear from the volunteer department is pronounced compared to where I work.
What are you talking about? Where did anyone say anything about pay? Where did I say anything about not being paid enough? What is so, so dumb is your comment.
I was in a municipal department surrounded by volunteers in the rest of the county. We had a couple of mayors who's agenda was to shrink our department, so the vollies started getting called in on extra alarm fires. The problem we had with them was that their departments typically had a high turnover rate, so younger, inexperienced but over enthusiastic guys wanted to come in and tear stuff up. As an example, we had a smoke condition in a pub and had a trouble finding the source (turned out to be a smoldering trash can). The vollies showed up and proceeded to put up their ariel platform, bust out stained glass windows on the second floor, pull out and drop ac units, and took a chainsaw to the antique bar. It irked us but they got praised in the paper. And one time I was working on a roof alongside our county friends when I uncovered just a bit of fire at a dormer. One of their guys got all excited, fully opened an inch and a half line we had up there, and hit me square on the head, sending my helmet flying off the roof. I was lucky I didn't go with it.
I am someone who works in a combined career/volunteer department. In my dept, if you are doing EMS, there is generally a really good training culture, and they generally know what they are doing. for firefighting, its more mixed to find good people. there are a few stations id trust everyone there like they were career, there are more stations where if a volunteer rig showed up id be irritated
My thought is, it's case by case. I know career guys that suck and I know volunteers that are great but all in all on the professional side I've noticed tons of networking, association, and status come into play. If someone disregards you once they find out you're a volunteer it could be as simple as them looking down on you or it could be they see zero status from interacting with you IE they can't get anything of use from you. Politics can play a huge role. You could easily see the tides turn if your department went professional. Guys could be reaching out to you to lateral transfer, network, etc.
That said, volunteers can be such a wild card in comparison to career, there can be limited verification of your department's standard and therefore result in limited experience or knowledge. Not to say that isn't obtainable regardless of your career/volly status but it'll make plenty of career guys question your ability until they see it on an actual fire/emergency.
Every time a volunteer posts some *Thank me for my service* video, obnoxiously shows off their gear, fights for their *deserved* respect from career guys, it drops volunteers down a peg and the cycle continues. You have shit bags posting and boasting about what they do and as a professional firefighter I rarely do that. It's seen as in bad taste. I love my job, I have times where I absolutely love talking about the job, but it isn't my place to boast on social media that that's what I do and that everyone needs to know. If I were insecure and needed approval/recognition, that's what I'd do.
To finish, many of those guys that make those posts also appear bottom of the barrel. Neck beards, missing teeth, firefighter tattoos, wearing their torn gear indoors or demonstrating something they deem *heroic* that isn't. If you're a volly, you need to hold your crew accountable for acting like a jackass even if the department can't. You can't control those idiots but you can control yourself and the crew around you and act accordingly and regardless of your status, people will respect you even if they bust your balls about not being a paid guy.
So I started as a volunteer, and my department has always been a combination department back to the 1870s. Whether it was feeding the horses and shoveling shit or driving the steamer, there was a career guy. When I came on from the volunteer ranks the department was very much still in name a volunteer first career driver mentality. We run bls ems. The calls piled up and got so numerous most of the volunteers stopped coming for a multitude of reasons. Much was self-inflicted by putrid leadership, lack of rules and expectations for volunteers, and no recruitment outside of hanging a shingle out front of the station. Retention was non-existent. Now we are 17 career staff and moving to hire another 4-8 and promote a career chief in the not so distant future. We still have volunteers, but they do not affect our operations positively or negatively. Guys, come in, we train them up, and the ones with the right attitude get hired by us or move out of state for jobs. So i harbor a lot of resentment toward volunteers of the old guard in my department that say I only do this for the money. I also know they blatantly didn't show up during the lean years and vanished dueinf covid. Yes, I get paid. Just like they get paid at their jobs. I chose a career in the fire service, dont deflect your shortcomings on me because I do it as a career. I've been burned, fell through a floor, broken teeth and bones, and given 21 years of my life to this community. I've saved countless lives and been cited for valor a few times. I do it as a career because I enjoy the work and know I can make a difference. So, the answer to your question is that there are lots of terrible volunteers that are not ready for work , and I have zero respect for you. The few that show up, train hard, stay combat ready, and actually show up and work sode by side. I call my brother and treat him like he is a career guy.
āMarine corps style attitudeā for a volunteer firefighterā¦ I hope youāre joking because thatās the most cringe shit Iāve read in a while. Iāve seen guys who try to act like that and they are absolutely insufferable.
I donāt see how someone can approve people doing their job for free - itās not a hobby and it holds back the career as a whole.
Are there solid volunteers? Sure. But for some reason it usually ends of being some career guy who just also wants to work for free. Again, shooting themself in the foot.
Do you see volley nurses? Electricians? Pilots? No. Why is this any different?
There are loads of pilots, nurses and even electricians who volunteer in their spare time to serve their community, many people find being a volunteers firefighter to be a fulfilling and exciting way to give back to their communities.
Wayyyy fewer of those people volunteer. The number of people willing to do this job for free 100% hurts the profession on multiple fronts. Hard to leverage for more pay, benefits, etc when people are willing to do it for free.
Iām not so sure if you are correct, I think there are loads of people who volunteer for all sorts of things, and often times they leverage their skills and abilities for that purpose. For example, and accountant volunteering to do his churches taxes, or a chef catering a charity dinner at cost.
You may be correct in certain places where volunteer firefighters depress wages of full time pros, but thatās not really relevant in counties that are entirely volunteer, or places that are only professional.
The reason places are still all volunteer is because we allow it to happenā¦what other profession has entire counties that are all volunteer? People whine that these counties rely on these services - yeah what a concept relying on FREE emergency services.
When your dryer breaks or your pipe bursts do you call the volunteer plumber? No. You pay through the nose for it because that guy doesnāt work for free and neither do the other plumbers.
āI bring the marine corps style of attitude with me everyday.ā Aaaaannnddd this right here is the most cringe worthy character trait to hold and is one that most people go out of their way to avoid.
Just wanted to provide a quick perspective on this topic. As a volunteer in a small department in Canada, within a county that has only 100% volunteer departments (ambulances in Nova Scotia are not part of the FD), I have never met anyone who is a paid firefighter. I donāt know exactly but I estimate that there are roughly a dozen departments within our county of 2100 square kilometres and they all have some pretty decently populated areas to cover.Ā
Starting my career in the fire service as a ācall member,ā I often felt overshadowed by the full-time staff. Looking back, the divide between call and full-time staff was quite evident. Today, as a career FF/AEMT, I see call company members as dedicated community members who genuinely want to help without seeking personal recognition. Their commitment is inspiring, though sometimes, Iām left shaking my head in disbelief.
In my personal experience, being that my area is dominated by paid departments, I'm not a fan of volunteers.
NO. This does not mean all volunteers ever in the history of time, just those in my area.
In my experience volunteer departments are filled with the lowest common denominator Bubba or Cletus who either A: Are unable to be hired at any paid department for physical restrictions or their wet smallpox blanket personality. Or B: Have any sort of legitimate mental development problem and are let on the volunteer department because other people feel bad for them.
I do not need to tell anyone why both of those things are terrible, but beyond that, volunteer departments near me;
Don't have any apparatus newer than 1976
Barely have working equipment on any of their apparatus
Barely have enough gear for the 2 people who show up to fires
Do not have enough SCBA for the 2 people who show up to fires
Refuse to run anything except fire calls (they get 5 per year, maybe)
All of these issues on top of the fact that they could easily merge into the county fire department, or, in one specific case, all 6 departments could merge into one and CREATE a county fire department that might actually be useful. But none of the chiefs want to lose their power, so they refuse.
It sucks here, I hate our volunteers.
Iām a big union guy. I think volunteers exist in a lot of places that have the means to staff full time professional firefighters and EMS providers, and honestly kinda look at people who volunteer in those places as scabs. Theyāre allowing municipalities to get away with not paying for skilled labor, and often providing far less guaranteed coverage than is appropriate for their service areas.
In more rural areas, I understand that thereās not the means or even really the need for professional departments in a lot of places.
Not all, I do think a lot of volunteers are just there for the tshirt. I also think spending time away from your families and risking your life for free is silly.
Not all volunteer departments are like that you know. Some are, sure. But definitely not all. Mine sure as hell isnāt. I went thru academy for 6 months and tested out with my Proboard Fire 1&2. Iāve done EVOC training and been certified to drive on calls. Iāve taken and passed a Proboard Incident Safety Officer course and a Proboard Fire instructor 1&2 course. Many others on my department have done similar training and taken the same classes I have. So by all means, donāt lump every volly house into your little box, because they donāt all fit.
Iām a Volunteer with a combination dept; previously was on an all-volunteer department.
Iād say there is a much wider range of professionalism and skill across volunteer departments around the country (from what Iāve seen online), than between career depts across the country. There are going to be volunteer depts that are rock solid, and there are volunteer departments that are completely devoid of skill/training, structure, and professionalism.
At my combo dept , almost all of the career guys started as volunteer, so i think that creates a good culture where volunteers all are treated with respect. That said, as a volunteer, I know itās difficult to keep my spear tips as pointy when Iām only working a couple shifts a month vs the career guys doing 4x as much time on as I am.
Tough question. If their training, knowledge and performance are up to par, then no. The difficult part is Iām from a big city department, busy truck, 4000+ calls a year, also part time at a combo, and training is non stop, physical fitness is mandatory and we have a way of doing things. If a volley dept isnāt up to those standards it makes it tough to accept. Not saying vollies arenāt up to the task, but for us ISO dictates a certain amount of training hours per year for all of us. We have to put it in. My PT dept is combo, young full timers paired with pat timers that are full time career guys from somewhere else, usually the city, and we bring our standards there, so their training and performance are up to the task.
Most folks won't know I'm a Volly until I show up at their emergency in turnouts. "Hey I didn't know you did this!" Yup almost 20 years now. No stickers on my pickup, couple of subdued almost hidden lights.
My county has 3 bigger well equipped Volly depts. And two lesser so equipped ones. We have full time bigger agencies within 12-20 miles of us and they share their Dive, high angle, heavy rescue, etc. with us. If it's a mutual aid call from us to them generally it's water tanker support. If its from them to us it's generally for their more specialized training and equipment. If we call them and they get there to do their special things we become their support and step back. It just makes sense. "Hey yeah, bring your specialty equipment over so we can run it! Yeah right!"
As far as I know nobody looks down on us. And if you're on your third bottle and your hose is going dry you are damn glad to see any kind of help.
The issue there is that when departments "go paid", the volunteers don't suddenly get paid. They get replaced or made into combo benchwarmers. The reason most volunteers are so against having a paid service in their area is because it means they will be redundant or relegated to performing the boring crap 4th due jobs, if they even get an invite at all.
On volunteer firefighters - no.
On volunteer EMS - absolutely. The amount of experience it takes to be a competent pre-hospital clinician is just too high for volunteers to ever be competent.
Interesting take. In my dept, we do both volunteer Fire and volunteer EMS. We donāt transport but weāre typically first on scene anywhere from 5 to 10 minutes before the paid ambulance. Iāve been doing Fire longer than EMS, but I feel way more confident on EMS. A bunch of guys in our dept have done it professionally and a couple of them are fire/paramedics or professional paramedics. Iāve learned from those guys.
Iām pretty sure our paid guys appreciate us getting the ball rolling before they get there or having us on scene on codes and other serious calls, never mind the lift assists and falls.
I started as a volunteer; I am now career but I still volunteer.
I get just as much crap from the volly firefighters about being a career guy as I do from career firefighters about being a volly.
The only people career or volunteer who donāt bust by balls are the fireman. I canāt stand firefighters but I love hanging out with fireman.
Getting ahead of this For the woke community; they are both gender neutral terms.
Do you provide a valuable service to your community? Yes. Are you taking union jobs away from future and current professionals? Also yes. š¤·
Your community doesnāt want to āraise taxesā to fund a necessary service. Itās not your fault individually but they eventually will have to pay out if people stop showing up for free.
How are volunteers taking away union jobs? Most volunteer departments are rural, donāt have or want unions, and wouldnāt pay enough to attract career firefighters even if they did have the tax base to support one. Not to mention, a union career guy would get awfully bored waiting at the station for a week or 3 between calls. I guess at least the trucks would be shiny though
The whole reason Iām a volunteer is to learn more so I can get on a career, yeah Iām gonna wear my fucking radio and yeah Iām gonna wear my station clothes in public because Iām proud and existed for the department I work for, Iāve never heard of anyone wearing turn outs into restaurants and I think youāre cherry picking but whateves, 9 year volunteer is more embarrassing then that though
I believe the existence of volunteer fire departments is part of the reason why many fire departments get away with paying low wages. People are so desperate to be firefighters that theyāre willing to do it for free. If every volly quit, firefighters would be able to better advocate for their careers.
Ones that take it seriously, train, stay in shape and are professional, I absolutely do not look down on them at all. They're an asset to their community. Now, the neckbeards who do it for the shirt and a blue light in their truck, they're an embarrassment. All this applies to career firefighters too. I don't care how long they've been on the job, if they refuse to train seriously or don't stay in shape for the job, GTFO, you have no business in this profession.
This is the correct answer. Honestly I respect the shit out of the vollies that are actually good at their job. I don't think I would do it. And I would take any one of them that actually wants to be there over some of my own guys that are recliner slugs
Recliner slugs š Itās a real problem. I used to piss on gardening slugs as a kid. Same technique works great in the fire house lol
We call them fingerbangers. Come in when the calls already over, finger in, and leave
Waitā¦ I get a blue light? /s
We only get red and white here!
But I get to weewoo right?
https://preview.redd.it/w4pefw269s9d1.jpeg?width=1200&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=55e575a90910f39fc1791665c7f5e0bfc429e513
depends on local laws and your PD chief. A lot of vollies I know run green and white, and in smaller rural communities it's known if a car has its hazards on and honkin he's a vollie.
All state based! In PA itās blue & white or just solid blue unless youāre any type of chief then itās red. [Hereās](https://www.extremetacticaldynamics.com/knowledge-base/state-statutes/) a list of the emergency light laws for every US state :)
Much like light color, depends on the state. Here in NH for example, red, white and sirens galore are allowed.
Sirens are illegal for most volunteers across the US in my area we can only have 2 flashing lights in our personal vehicles
You guys are getting lights?
In WA they just get a sticker š
Absolutely Florida is pretty much an entirely professional state we only have maybe three departments in the entire state that are volunteer and my standard is the same regardless of if you get paid or not. If you're doing it because it's your calling as a civil servant You train you work your ass off You're the hardest working one on the fire scene then I'll consider you my brother if you're just doing it so you can ask for discounts at fast food places then you're a joke to me.
I am curious how Florida avoided the volunteerism that developed in other states.
They do everything at the county level as opposed to town or township. So even though the county may be somewhat rural. The whole county is one department. A lot easier to have fewer stations but with all paid staff. Alot of places in the east and Midwest. Fire protection is done at the town and township level. So you may have 15 volunteer departments in 1 rural county that each have 10 members and sometimes get a truck rolling. Where if they just had a county department they could have 5 or 6 well placed station with an engine and ambulance staffed at each one with cross staffed tankers and 1 rescue for the county.
Just a side question: what are your required response times from call to arrival at scene?
Depends. Where I'm from we try to be on scene in like 5 minutes. Some of the volunteer departments surrounding us you may wait 25 minutes for them to show up. There's no standard as long as they get on the radio and mark in route before getting 3rd dispatched.
We had an area that pulled out of mutual aid with the city due to money concerns. A large house just beyond the city limits caught fire and it took close to a half hour before anyone arrived on scene. We could see the fire from our station. The owners of the house, part of the community that eliminated mutual aid from the city due to the cost, tried unsuccessfully to sue the city.
You are either in, or you are out. It's like trying to buy insurance after a car accident lol. I'm not glad they lost their house, but I am glad they lost the frivolous lawsuit.
Florida has standards based on rural versus urban. I don't remember the exact times but my urban agency was like 8 minutes or less for hot response, and an hour for cold response. In the rural areas of that county (Which was a very small outlying percentage) it was 20 minutes for hot response and no expectation for cold. I work fully rural now and we don't even have expectations because we are so rural. I've had a 55 minute response to a cardiac arrest.
Same with Massachusetts.. 80% is full time union FDs and the other 20% is paid on call. There might a handful of volunteer FDs out west, but itās very small. I have very little perspective on working with a volunteer FD. My perspective is of VFD is purely YouTube. The paid on call FDs usually are made up of full time FFs from surrounding FDs.
Started paid/on-call here in MA. Some of the best firefighters Iāve worked with have been the guys that are on call. I think like many have said on here, it really depends on the person. There are certain departments I kind of look down on just because of their history.
Small world. I never did call/vol, but my 1st full time job was a combination FD. There was some great guys but there was also shit bags too and Prob why I have a bias because that was my experience at the start. It was actually enough to drive me away to a FD that was all full time. Example: building fires 2 call guy show up and contribute 0, stand there doing nothing, donāt help pick up, bitch thatās itās taking too long to clear, get back to the station, put their gear away and fuck off. Didnāt help clean or put the rigs back in service. Example: we had local art students come in and paint morals on the walls at the station. One call guy then bitches that he wasnāt included in this decision and he wouldāve painted an American flag but no one ever asked him thatās why he never did it in the 10 years heās been there. Example: 3rd medical in a row, PT refusal, I asked this call guy to grab the computer and get the refusal and he said āno I donāt do paperwork, Iām only here to help the full time staff out in a pinchā. Example: trainings, few call guys would bring food and coffee to training and leave it on the tables for someone else to clean.
Florida still has a good amount of volunteer and paid on call. But in some metropolitan areas and parts that have seen large growth have career or combination departments. You can find some smaller volunteer/poc departments in metropolitan areas that can handle 90% of their calls themselves (they likely contract out EMS or have paid ambulance crews) and would request mutual aid for anything larger than a room and contents. But even many career departments in Florida run shockingly light crews.
Florida is just such a medical state and the people here are elderly and have a lot of legitimate stuff going on with them. So the cities and counties just do impact fees and levy taxes to make sure EMS is handled by the fire department as in all hazards approach and everything is career.
And most of those volunteer departments/stations are either overseen, or literally part of a career agency.
Correct One of the examples is Pasco and pretty much their system is you can't be a volunteer with them unless your career with another department of Florida. And then Lauderdale by the sea that is essentially just all their professional guys that want to keep training and playing around after retirement.
This. Itās this.
This right here, I know volly guys that take their job and duties 100 times more seriously then some career guys I know.
Couldnāt have said it better.
/thread
Bruh why do you have all your certs posted lol
Kinda forgot it was there, been awhile. It's just how the flair in this subreddit is..ain't a big thing
This is the way
100%
I look down on shitty firefighters.
I donāt care where you work or volunteer, if you look and/or act like a douche, youāre a douche. If you look and act professional, youāre a professional (regardless of pay or not). I recently retired and 33 years taught me dumbasses walk among us regardless if thereās an IAFF sticker or the truckās window or not
I donāt look down on them at all. Iāve been at a bushfire next to our volunteer guys and gals and I am just amazed they do such hard work for free. Zero hate! Im in australia if that makes any difference.Ā
Nice to see another Aussie here (Iām NSW RFS).
As a volunteer there is a lot of unprofessionalism, nothing irritates me more than when people are taking hero pictures at someone's worst day.
Or sitting around telling jokes, laughing while the homeowner is watching their everything burn away.
The phrase āmarine corps style of attitudeā made me cringe to my core as a former marine or ex marine or whatever im supposed to call myself. I donāt look down on vollies but I wouldnāt expect them to be as proficient as a career guy. Obviously there are exceptions. But if you do something more, youāre going to be better at it for the most part. I applaud yāall for working for free, thatās wild as shit to me. Especially in a dangerous occupation.
Non-practicing Marine.
Can't tell if serious
Just my tongue-in-cheek solution to āOnce a Marine, always Marineā but no longer doing Marine things.
Yeah same. I hope he meant the professionalism and work ethic. No one likes that overly motivated guy that still wears a high and tight and acts like he just got off depot.Ā
I always had mixed feelings. I was career for 25 years. Worked for a mid size dual department. We assisted with a few volunteer departments. We would show up to their fires and it was a disaster. To much freelance. Pump ops was a joke. General fireground knowledge. While I appreciate folks who dedicate their time for free, I wouldnāt work a serious incident with you. Itās hard to replace years of training/experience with the same crews.
Ah, I didn't know you'd interacted with my old volley department! Gawd that was a shitshow, glad I got out when I did. I was that one weirdo who did fire stuff so I could do medical, rather than the usual way. I'm EMS-only these days and even though I learned a lot...that department was very much not the place to be.
Yeah, the lack of disciple is scary. Canāt argue!
As you know, some do some goofy shit and treat it like a personality rather than a job. That said, I generally respect volunteers quite a bit, though I do tend to want to know more about their actual training and experience before I give much weight to their opinions and suggestions.
I do both so im biased but not usually. I grew up on a pretty decent volunteer department and thereās only a few around us and theyāre all reasonably squared away so I never understood where the volunteer memes and stuff came from. Then I started seeing some of these guys in northern New Hampshire, Pennsylvania and other areas (not trying to direct it at anyone in particular) and at least understood what they were making fun of. But at the same time I try to have sympathy for some places because at the end of the day, they donāt know any better and nobody knows how to show them better. They donāt know any different yet theyāre still trying to serve the town. There are definitely some that know theyāre underperforming, lazy, behind on times etc and still donāt give a shit to make things better - thatās where I get annoyed.
Volley here I happen to be in an area that has some of the most dense volley depts in the nation. And also close enough to NYC that we get a lot of active FDNY members (paid FDNY by day, volley at home by night). Iāve been doing this 10years, served as company captain, and obviously had/have the chance to learn from very senior career FDNY guys daily. Still, I am just a volley. I know Iām just a volley. Iām proud to be a volley. But I will never hold myself to the same level as a career person. Everytime I meet a career person from elsewhere and someone mentions that Iām also a FF, I always start by saying āyea Iām just a volley thoughā. Itās the volleys who think theyāre seasoned the same as FDNY (or other large city) firefighters and think they are on the same level that give volleys a bad name. Im sorry johnny volley but these career people are running 30+ calls on a 24hr shift, seeing 5-6 big fires or more a month. Youāre 300 calls per year and 3 fires does not put you on the same level
Minus 10 years experience and being an officer, I could have written this. Iām little further from NYC so we donāt have FDNY guys, but we have a lot of career guys from cities and larger towns. Our chief is former career. We have a former chief who was a DC in a small city and now a DC in a local larger paid town. Having professionals in the dept is so critical. There is a big volly culture in my area. Most of our local department are really good with a few notable exceptions. I would never compare myself to the career guys, especially the city guys. Itās just a whole different well when youāre dealing with multi story apartments, high rises, more commercial properties, industrial space, etc. I think we do what we do really well, and obviously there are dangerous. It requires skills and knowledge, but itās not the same.
I started as a paid on call firemen and moved to full time. I donāt look down on volunteers perse. The ones that put $3,000 in lights on their $1,500 car and were the douchey t shirts and stuff are complete skids. How you present yourself and your dept, your training and such is what makes you professional. Unfortunately for many volunteer depts they lack training, they represent the profession and themselves poorly which makes people look down on them. But rest assured thereās d bags that do the same on the full time side as well, itās just noticed a little less
We only look down on the Thank Me For My Service ones. You good.
I look down on any Firefighter that is a detriment to their community and their Department. This can be through their attitude, letting themselves get fat, not staying up to date on their training, etc. if you donāt take the job seriously like it demands you do then yeah - fuck you. This applies to vollies and professional.
We get a lot of that in NY. Have had many say "I've put in my time" and are just there for their Losap check. Even to the point they will sit down the road and wait to show up after the engine leaves.
I'm a career FF who runs with two volunteer departments pretty much once or twice a week. One department completely has their shit together. They have pretty high training requirements for people, especially give these are people who are volunteering in their free time. We actually do cross training with them too. They probably run as almost as many calls as us, and have quite a lot of experience. Most importantly, they get shit done and frankly you wouldn't know they were a volunteer department unless someone told you. We actually work really well with their department and I really like these guys and gals. Then there's the other department that has a bunch of out of shape potatoes who are about to be my next cardiac arrest patient at any minute. They never wear their gear, and have no clue what the hell is going on, ever. They are pretty obsessed with everyone knowing they are firefighters, and not very interested in training to be be a firefighter. Guess how I feel about this one.
We donāt really have volunteers where Iām from but Iād imagine if youāre willing to do this for free you deserve more respect than I do
Hey-O. Iām a retired professional firefighter, and now I volunteer. I have a lot of respect for people willing to put their ass on the line by volunteering to serve their communities.
I'm not gonna get into the fit for fire, the old neck beards that do it for a blue light in the truck, etc. Everyone already explained that. I'll explain it in simpler forms. Paid FFs want to see more PAID FFs. We understand the middle of nowhere, Volleys are needed. What pisses me off is high population suburbs that don't do fully staffed houses cause they feel like they can get away with the volley rig. And these volley dorks convince the suburb that everything is OK, because their company can handle anything. I would love to see some more CAREER PAID FFs in those areas. Plain and simple. There's a select few volley houses that can respond, and work as good as most career houses(kentland etc). But the truth is most of those busy Volley houses that can perform like a fully staffed career House, are full of career paid firefighters that love the job so much, they go and volunteer outside the city just to get some more. So that's the thing right there. Also, stop being so firegay about everything. There's a difference between knowing everything and showing everything.
Iām glad to see the IAFF push to end two hatting
It's hard to fight for prevalent wages when you're supporting someone who does it for free. #truths
The town I live in the professionals make 110k+ a year an only work 9-5 , so they do almost no work town of 5000) while itās the volunteers who get all the real work. The entire town actually thinks the pros are a joke( they are)
āI bring the marine corps style of attitude with me everydayā Forget volunteers, you are probably the most annoying mf for anyone to work with
Our volly department has career FF's come in weekly to train with us. It's a good program. I don't think they'd do it if they felt disrespect toward us.
Volunteer is how I started so itās in my roots and I always have respect for the ones that actually put in work. Unfortunately there is a large population of volunteers that are nothing more than T-shirt jockeys who give them a bad rep.
Come to Germany. Most of the firewatches here are volunteers. Professional firewatch is needed by law in towns bigger than 50'000 citizens, airport and some company (chemical...). Many professional fire(wo)men are volunteers in their hometown too. Often in leading positions. And as far as I know they are very happy to have them. Sure there are some, only doing it for the "fame", but there is no difference in education for volunteer compared to professional. But besides the markings on the trucks and so, I see no difference or any kind of strange behaviour. So I would say, for most of them, no, they dont look down on them.
Are you sure there is no difference in education? Squad leader (8+1 firefighters): F-III Volunteer 10 days of training B-III Professional 42 days of training
That can be possible. I'm not that deep into it. I should have made it more clear, that I meant the training for the "basic" firemen. And for sure, professionals have more training. But the basic courses (comms, eq....) are the same. Same trainers, some schools.
Also not the case, at least in Hessia. Don't get me wrong, I am a volly. The professional firefighters are trained a lot more intensifly. You can look it up at hlfs.de.
I do not, as a whole, no. I recognize that when it comes to unpaid work, sometimes you're just going to have to get what you get and be happy about it.Ā 70% of the US is covered by volunteers. I've worked with some absolutely jam up vollies that I would hire in an instant, and I've worked with some that are the sorriest excuses for firefighters I've ever seen.Ā The key is remembering that pay or no pay, the fire doesn't give a shit. People in need don't give a shit. You have taken on a great responsibility and you should treat it as such.Ā
I don't think it is reasonable to expect anywhere near the same capability in a modern, all-risk fire department from someone who trains and prepares in their spare time as someone who has the ability to train and perform their job as a full-time pursuit. Hats off to all the volunteers who show up and work to help their communities. Continue to show up and do your best. My opening statement is general, and there are always exceptions.
I'm six years on a volunteer department myself, and being honest, find myself looking down on other volunteer departments even. We're a large volunteer dept that provides mutual aid to 1 smaller career dept (about 100 firefighters) and 7 or 8 smaller volunteer departments (10-40 firefighters each) in our vacinity and borders. Pretty much only the career department we mutual aid has their shit together. I am always so dissapointed when we provide MA to some department, show up, and some of the other dept firefighters are unable to operate their own trucks, not wearing their PPE, standing around getting in the way, gross safety violations galore everywhere, and being generally unprofessional through words, body language, actions, etc. This frustration doesn't just apply to volunteers, though - I hold every firefighter to the same (low) standard: 1. Be safe 2. Train what you do 3. Be professional We also have these issues my own volunteer department. Firefighters that refuse to do more than the twice monthly minimum training (half assed effort), aren't safe, and have no aspirations to improve, and only want to show up for a structure fire. All said, I don't want to undermine the many, many, many committed volunteers at my department, or other department, , that know their limitations, train, train, train, and strive to be safe and professional (I love y'all). I'm fortunate and thankful we have volunteers who are committed to weekly training for several hours each time, provide staffing at the station, and strive to promote safety and professionalism. Sincerely, a bitter volunteer who wants to raise the standard.
I think getting paid vs not getting paid isn't the difference that matters. It's being a moron vs not being a moron. There are more volunteers and as such more volunteer morons but there are plenty of paid morons as well.
I've been on both but it feels like a National Guard Infantry unit trying to work along side 2/6 Fox Co. circa 2004 in Iraq. The Marine Corps style attitude made me cringe.
If you became a FF for the tattoos and the t-shirts, volley or career, I look down on you. P.S. you're very easy to point out.
Know how to do the job and actually do it and I won't look down on you. Also don't constantly tell me your war stories to look cool, I really don't care.
No. I get paid to do something that you volunteer for. If anything I have more respect
i was a volunteer for 4.5 years before going FT, i will always have a love and respect for the call company. however, there are always a handful of people that shit on anybody that ISNT a volunteer, that do like 10 calls a year, and make it their entire personality. those people are what ruin it for the rest of us
NJ volley. 6 departments in my city; 5 are volunteer with over 140 members. Obvious tensions between volley and paid. We got a shit ton of guys that have been volley for 40+ years, former paid or retired marshals; they keep us new guys straight so we donāt embarrass ourselves in front of the paid crew
Iām on a career department and still volunteer. The training and expectations I received at my vollie department were far superior to my career department. And the culture is better too. Some examples, 1 person is expected to be able to throw a 28ā ladder at my vollie house, only expected to throw a 24ā solo where I work. My volunteer department views search as the first-due ladder companyās number 1 priority at almost any fire. My career job normally sends the 1st ladder to the roof, and only searches if thereās indications of victims - otherwise, the primary is done by the heavy rescue, which can be 10+ minutes away. Even things as simple as riding assignments and tools. My vollie dept always fills the rigs on fire runs in a specific, targeted way, to ensure predictability despite varying manpower on every run. And every riding position carries specific tools. My career job never has assigned tools, and itās a crapshoot whether or not the officer tells you what to grab, or just gets pissed at you 5 minutes later when you grabbed the wrong tool. Even things like knowledge of operations is vastly different. At my vollie dept, I was trained to function as an officer immediately after getting off probation, and soon after taught to drive, because I can be riding in any spot on any given day. And with that, I learned far more about scene operations than I ever learned at my career job. At my career job, I barely think at all. I may make a minor decision here and there, but I exist to do the officerās bidding. Really, I think what sums it up, if I had to go into a fire with 2 random guys from my volunteer department vs my career department, Iād always choose the volunteer department. Theyāre flat out better at firefighting. My vollie house trains harder and it shows. Medicals are a different story. But no one likes those anyway
38 years paid and vollieā¦. Every rank from Firefighter, Engineer, Lieutenant, Division Chief, Deputy Chief, and CODā¦. Even was a USAR HazMat Team Manager. I worked suburban and major metro departments. All I have to say is this: Fire wonāt ever ask whether you are paid or vollie as you make a push or a grab; neither will those we serve. The only way to gain respect on the job from me, or any other real firefighter is to be properly motivated, trained, and competent. Do not be a boob, a t-shirt firefighter or a knife and forker (IYKYK).
My county is a combination department and Iād say about 1/3rd of the volunteers are just as good as the career guys, if not better. Then there are some that are just there for the tshirt and drop after about 18 months. Continuous cycle
I was a volunteer for 10 years and we were surrounded by staffed depts and we ran calls with them. We did our best to hold ourselves to a higher standard, not jumping off a rig with a beard and jeans with cowboy boots. We had to wear a normal uniform and look professional, we had weekly drill nights with very intense training. I never understood why full time guys hated volunteers until I became a full time guy and seen how many volunteer depts act and operate. Do I hate volunteers, no I was one. I have to many issues at my full time place and in my personal life to worry about what some bearded dude does on the other side of the state.
As a volunteer of 10 years who ended up career, I don't dislike volunteers, but I am often embarrassed by them. Many lack professionalism, adequate training, and the presentation of a calm demeanor. My organization has "support" members who are generally FF1 only, some are also EMTs, but they all tend to be woowoos. They get overly excited on calls, make stupid mistakes because they're so high on adrenaline that they can't think straight, or speak out of turn with patients and family members. I know at one point I was like that too, which is why it embarrasses me. I try very hard to work with our support members to get them to a point that matches the professionalism of the career crews, because the other career crews will either refuse to work with them, or eat them alive. I don't judge them as a group, but rather as individuals, which should be how it is. However, once I have an opinion on someone, it is extremely difficult for them to change it, and directly reflects how I allow them to work when they're on my scenes.
I look down on anyone who doesn't take firefighting, as a whole, seriously, and only treats it as moments of clout. They are everywhere, career and volunteer. Unfortunately, I just see it more with volunteers, and there lies the stigma.
Hereāa my $00.02: Who cares what they think? Iām a small town volley. I do it ācause if I donāt, who will? The department is short staffed. They need guys willing to train and show up. And I do both. I donāt have any illusion that Iām at the same level as big city career guys. Nor do I need to be or want to be. If and when I ever meet someone who is a career guy, i donāt even mention that Iām a volley. I just say āIām an IT project manager.ā But I will say thisā¦ We train at the junk yard with the cutters and spreaders routinely as we have a big highway that goes through our town. And last night (or this morning) I was paged at 2:20am and when we got on scene, we operated like a well oiled machine to cut a lady out of a car wreck. We were surrounded by emt, police, and family of the victim. And the way those family members looked at us and thanked us! Wow. I felt mighty damn proud.
For the most part, yes.
Can't fault you for being honest, I guess.
Yes. I also looked down on combination departments that do 95% medical and call themselves firefighters.
Combination fire/EMS or combination vol/paid? My department was fire/EMS, I canāt tell you the number of times I made fire calls while riding the box. We had to keep our bunker gear and SCBAs with us at all times. I will say, one of my happiest days was when I was in the department long enough to get totally off the box.
Yes and no. I'm glad they exist, and in a sense they really are heroes doing a dangerous job for free just to protect and help their community. On the other hand, there enough podunk volly houses that make all of them look bad and give everyone a bad reputation. I also wish all vollys would quit or go on strike to make states pay them.
Fuck no. I respect the hell out of anyone who does this job on their own time for free. I think it's pretty awesome and you'll never catch me shitting on volleys, ever.
Only the ones I'm taller than
Career or volunteer competency and willingness to always improve and do better on the next call is about 95% of what I respect. I donāt care if youāre a 30 year guy with experience out the ass. If you donāt take medical calls seriously or take fitness seriously youāre a liability. Iāll take an in shape 2 year guy who gives a shit and wants to get better over the above 30 year guy all day. Career or volunteer.
The opposite. Would I do what I do for free? Nope. But they do. They're better people than I am.
I don't look down on them, I respect that they are giving their time to protect their community. On the other hand, I am fully aware of their capabilities. We are a paid urban department surrounded by volunteer suburban, occasionally if we have a big job they will come into town to cover our stations but we often send mutual aid around us. They are part time and do not train as we do, nor do they have experience in what they could face in my city, from what I've seen in my area many of them are much older and many of the younger ones are very overweight. I would not swap one of theirs for one of ours and expect them to perform, it would be setting them up for failure.
No. Thereās full time professionals and part time professionals.
I started off as a volunteer at a combination, but mostly volunteer department in north Houston. Most of our paid staff worked for HFD. It was a well funded, well trained department with high expectations for its members. I ended up becoming a career FF/Paramedic in a city of around 300k. I retired and moved to a very small East Texas city with a volunteer fire department. I met another retired FF from Houston at the post office who told me if I joined the volunteer FD, their lack of professionalism and training would just aggravate me. Many of our volunteers are obese, have beards and have woo woo lights all over their trucks. One of our volunteers took off out of our municipality and rolled his truck as he turned onto the main street on his way to a mutual aid call a mile or so down the road. Finally, the fire chief isnāt certified in anything and drives around in his personal red pickup, with lights and a city FD logo on the doors. I wouldnāt join because I donāt want to be associated with an unprofessional organization, and Iām far from being arrogant, but I donāt think Iād be well received if I were to try make any suggestions regarding the department. I figure itās just better to stay away. The only fires Iāve seen them respond to, other than a stump I was burning and they sprayed AFFF all over, have burned to the ground. Iāve also had the get right up on my ass with their lights going. I think it all depends on the department. If you have paid law enforcement, you should also have paid fire and EMS. As a paid FF, I worked rescue and hazmat. We trained on a very regular basis for fire, hazmat and rescue. I donāt see a volunteer being able to spend an adequate amount of time to become fully proficient in all aspects of the profession. We also made a good hundred or more calls a month per shift. Everyone knew who was going to be on scene and what was expected from each individual on scene. When we made mutual aid calls, there were volunteer personal vehicles parked everywhere, and everyone seemed to have their own agenda. It wasnāt a team.
I do not, but I have witnessed this though. I volunteered with my local department for a while. Small town, 300 runs a year, but I also worked full-time not elsewhere. When I ran into the local union shop/city on runs, they all treated me like dog shit. It made me laugh though, I worked for a local and a department much bigger and busier than theirs, and most of them started as volunteers or part time at my local place. Itās amazing how people forget where they came from.
No way. We have a dude who comes by every now and then and does the evening half with us. He keeps up as well as, if not better, than anyone else. Problem for him though is that the city wonāt allow him to enter structure with us. But heās badass and more than capable
Hell no! In fact they have a lot higher respect from my uniform then we do ourselves, well atleast the ones that take it serious. You do have those bad apples every now and then but you can spot em from a mile away.
I donāt look down on them but I also understand what you get with them too and understand they donāt have the experience as us city guys and itās no fault of their own. They just donāt get the call volume and types of calls we do. We also train every shift year round. Just canāt compare someone whoās done 1-2 thousand calls a year as a department.
Whatās your job that you do high angle rope rescue in? That sounds like a fun one
As someone who does both sides serve on a paid department and on a volunteer one. My volunteer department trains just as hard and is more professional and more committed than the paid department Iām on. But not every department is the same just my experiences
Honestly no I donāt, I spent many years as a volunteer before career. The training education and certifications are the same, volunteers just take a longer route to get fully certified because they have a job away from the station house that pays the bills at home. Career goes through an academy which is a faster track. Also volunteers face greater struggles then most career firefighters, those struggles are but not limited to lowers staffing numbers, sufficient secured water sources, and shoe string budgets. Yes there are those āvolunteersā who are T-shirt firefighters who only show up for parades and special events and those who only do it to strap on blindly lights and a siren on their POVā¦ which those guys do give the others a bad reputation. Unfortunately every department has one but a majority of the volunteers are hard working folks who get the certifications and are genuinely there for the community.
I mean if you think about they are doing the same job as a paid firefighter the only difference is they really just want to do it because they get paid little to none to do it. So in reality I have more respect for them. They donāt have to do it. Itās not there job. They do it because they really want to.
I had a paid FF tell me, my pro board FF I & II certification was less than his...
Sometimes, but not for the simple fact that they're volunteers.
I do not look down on volunteers. As long as they demonstrate commitment to the department.
I respect them. If they are good at the job, train and do what they can to help. Honestly I wouldnāt be doing this job for free so thereās that.
I do both and I donāt look down on volunteers. In fact, there are a handful of guys on my volunteer dept. I would rather work with than a handful of āprofessionalsā on my career department. On a side note, itās been my experience, the career guy out and about wearing a jacket with the giant union logo on the back is a shitty fireman.
The world would be on fire without Volunteers. I was paid and I started as a Vollie. There's some full-time guys and girls that are absolute wastes of oxygen and shouldn't be on the job but are safe because the Union protects them. Same goes for Vollies, good and bad.
nope. was one for a while. Also respond mutual aid for a couple areas that have volunteers. In fact one volunteer department has some of the best training facilities in the county and they support one of the fire academies. in my county volunteer depts are more common.
Im both a volunteer and career and anyone that looks down on volunteers is just an asshole. Volunteers don't get the resources that career departments get. Since it's unpaid it's hard to find people that will give their time and energy for such a hard job.
āI bring the Marine corps style of attitude with me every dayā So youāre a boot with no personality? As a volly, Iād hate being one who has to be associated with you.
I look down on you because you bring a "Marine Corps" style of attitude to the firehouse.Ā
Iāve worked with a lot and you guys are better than me! I donāt look down on volunteers at all, you guys are literally doing it for free, there are some that I canāt stand or make me cringe every time I see them but no I wouldnāt ever look down or think Iām better than you, thereās full time guys I donāt like or make me cringe too lol Keep up the good work
When youāre a smaller career dept (2 stations) surrounded by volunteer depts you absolutely depend on them and appreciate them showing up to help. However when theyāre on YOUR departments incident they are under your IC. Meaning they operate the same as you operate. Hard for some to understand that at times but it always smooths out. Itās only by the book, not that hard
Career or Volly, we should all strive to be professional.
They risk their lives just like we do. Brothers
The majority of the volunteers I've had the displeasure of being around, gatekept everything. Which to a degree is understandable. I realize firefighters won't be welcoming to just anyone walking in off the street, and they give respect to those who earn it by training and staying in shape. That said, I went through recruit school and got certified early. Naturally, they all told me it didn't mean shit. After 5 years of attempting to train with them and always being relegated to catching a hydrant, (and when I'd ask to do more meaningful training I was always denied,) whenever there was a call, I'd get kicked off my own unit because they had more time in service and told I was a medic/rescue jockey and needed to stay in my lane. With a few exceptions, those volunteers worked really hard to maintain their little clique and ensure that not only was I not a part of it, I didn't train nor fight fire with them. These same guys made being a volunteer FF their entire personality, but always had only enough energy on a fire to make initial attack and then layed on a tarp in the front yard during salvage and overhaul. They looked like shit, passed around the same women that came around the station and lived to tell you how much better they are than you. I've had next to no respect for volunteers ever since. That being said, the few "good ones" I was around had tremendous work ethic. They put a ton of effort into their training, their physical fitness, their appearance and their overall outlook on the job. They wanted to learn and more importantly, wanted to lift up others around them and help them learn too. In my lived experience, they were absolutely the minority though.
I did when i first started and thought i was the shit for being a big fireman in a big ghetto cityā¦but then you get olderā¦.more matureā¦and realize most volunteers probably know way more than you do š¤£
Based on the things I see on a daily basis, I hold volunteers in low regard.
Elaborate
Itās a multifaceted issue really. There are volunteer departments in the vicinity of where I live and work. They donāt burn much, but when they do we will go mutual aid. When this happens I get to see questionable tactics, unprofessional characters, and overall chaos to another degree. Volunteers standing in the front yard trying to sneak a picture on their phone while the fire is still burning. Out of shape slobs who couldnāt run 50 yards, let alone effect a rescue (Yes iām aware career departments can have these people. I also hold them in low regard). Incoherent yelling on the radio, Etc. Then you head on over to social media and see all the cringe ālook at me, Iām a firefighterā posts on tik tok or facebook. Itās bad for the profession. Iām not saying there arenāt great volunteers out there. I know there are. I know a few. But the low barrier of entry makes it so the good volunteers are drowned out by the shitheads who are there for the story/attention. Then you hear people claim itās the āsame jobā or how they would put their volunteer department up against any career department and itās laughable. My department making >50,000 calls a year is not comparable to your department that is making <300 calls a year. I donāt hate volunteers. I think itās a noble thing to do and I understand not all communities can staff a career department. However, I think the volunteer system needs reformed a bit and their members need to be held more accountable.
A lot of what you mentioned has to do with the leadership of those departments. As a volunteer myself, I see this daily across some of our mutual aid volunteer departments. My chief holds us to high standards. We send everyone who is willing to academy to get their Proboard FF1&2. We send our members to any classes they want to attend to improve their skills and knowledge. We constantly hunt for grants and funds to purchase and upgrade equipment. We train regularly and well. We try to be as professional as possible. And it has worked well for us. We have the respect of the few career departments in our area to the point they will call us in for mutual aid and for station coverage if they catch a long worker. By contrast, some of the other volunteer departments in the area are what you describe. Old farts that are out of shape and not qualified or trained to do much of anything on scene. These are the departments that we usually wind up putting their fires out for them, though by the time we get to them there isnāt much left. And itās because of poor leadership and a lack of drive to improve their departments.
Not about their ability to do the job, but I do think that the people who are firefighters without any financial remuneration are idiots. It's an essential service that requires skills. If you're doing it for free then you're letting your government get away with not providing something that people need.
>you're letting your government get away with not providing something that people need. You basically just described the current state of the US in general, lol.
Problem is, there is an awful lot of rural area in this country with small populations that donāt have the tax base to pay for a staffed department. Let alone do these areas have the call volume to justify said staffed department. A town of 1,500 with an average of 150 calls per year canāt afford, and doesnāt need a full time paid department. However they do still need and deserve fire and ems protection. Thatās where volunteer departments come in.
We have rural too. Taxes from rich or higher populated areas subsidise the poorer/lower populated areas. For 150 calls per year, a paid per call/paid on call model is achievable.
As a volunteer, I hate when career guys treat all volunteers as if all of us are 300 pounds, whackers, and arrogant. A large majority of states require the same certifications for both vollies and career firefighters, so anybody who talks about us being "hobbyists" or "playing pretend" are usually outright wrong. Sure, some of us just barely passed the academy, are actually *are* 300 pounds or have a lighting package more expensive than our POVs, but not all of us are and if you think that vollies are not real firefighters then you're no better than you say they are
In some cases. Itās all about the ability to do the job and how you carry yourself. There are bad on both sides but usually way more with the volunteers.
Many career firefighters look down on volunteers. Many career firefighters are also lazy, out of shape, donāt train and get offended that someone does their job for free. Others were just born, raised and work in areas where volunteer depts donāt exist and itās a completely foreign concept to them. Unfortunately, volunteers get a bad rap for many reasons outside their control.
V. Couldn't give two shits what they think. They aren't showing up for our calls whether they like us or not. Moot point.
Imma be honest here, yes. 100% YUP. l
When I moved away from the city I worked in to the suburbs I tried to volunteer, they are ok but still have that seniority bully we know it all prove yourself probie attitude. I didn't walk in there with the attitude that I am career I know it all, I actually wanted to learn as my career department doesn't train enough. But it was too much to pledge all my off hours with their "club". I didn't want to get coffee after weekly truck checks I want to get home. I think they drive people away with their exclusive demeaning bs.
I know that those sorts of places exist but as someone who has been a volunteer for over half a decade, I haven't seen it yet. Heard about it though. We're a state wide agency so things might be a bit different there but that sort of business certainly isn't reflective of volunteer services as a whole. It's unfortunate that your experience was so negative.
I just think that volunteer departments should be begging for volunteers and not making it so difficult and exclusive. I understand you can't have untrained people only showing up to working jobs. You need qualified people to show up to the false alarm at 2am. But I was kinda shocked they asked me about my personal life on the "interview", Im like youre an extension of a public agency you cant ask these things, and they really didn't understand modern HR concepts.
Yeah that's nothing like the services around here. Sounds like that department is just making themselves redundant slowly. They'll learn the hard way. Recruitment and retention is the name of the volunteers game.
I donāt really think about them much.
I think the best analogy for ffs are mechanics. Some people are pros, and some just like to tinker in their garage. The garage mechanic will probably be fine if you just need to change your brakes, and thereās a couple garage mechanics I trust as much as any proā¦but 9/10 if you have something big, you want the professional. Itās nothing personal to your neighbor, but they donāt have the same level of training. Volunteer departments donāt have the same level of training, weāve all heard an anecdotal story about some volunteer who could run circles around the salty pro, but to pretend like they do the same job hurts fire and ems as a whole and enables politicians and bean counters to continue to justify not funding an essential service. Iām also a firm believer that 99% of fire departments should be dual fire/ems so take my opinion with a grain of salt
Definitely do not look down. It is admirable to want to help. But there is a very clear divide on the quality of service, and obvious experience. All citizens deserve the best service possible from a trained fit crew that responds very fast.
Yes I do and so do most firefighters I know. Reddit is never an accurate snapshot of any given population. Whatever any particular subreddit's consensus answer is, the opposite is probably true.
In all honesty, most of the time. But Iām also an asshole sometimes and Iām working on it. My experience with volunteers hasnāt been great but I have met some great ones. Those ones tend to go to career departments. I look at it like sports. You have your hobbyists, your ams/pro ams and your pros (i.e. menās rec baseball vs minors vs mlb) volunteer depts to me are a mix of the first 2. Those who want to be professional will. I started as a paid volunteer (daily stipend of $150). This department actually cut people who werenāt up to their standards physically and skill wise. I have a skewed view of reality take it with a grain of salt. I also look down on departments who pay high and have low call volume with 99.9% being medicals and every oneās a medic first ff second.
I was volunteer for 2yrs before I got on full time. I donāt look down on volunteers, balancing a full time job, home life and volunteer firefighter is tough. Lazy/no commitment type of people are what bother me. Earn my respect and Iāll earn yours
I use to look down on industrial / airport type of fire stations until Iāve come to the realization being sleep deprived , with 90 % of call volume, on an ambulance attending to people who canāt even help themselves has made me jealous as fuck that they sleep, train way more than me and have a way better QOL.
Since I got my start as a volunteer, And I still volunteer even though I am also a paid guy with a different dept. I will say no I don't really look down on volunteers. I do however get frustrated with the lack of professionalism A lot of them bring. When going to a conference or class and interacting with people I typically can tell the pure volunteer from the paid or combination guy. Doesn't mean I look down on them where I live if it wasn't for volunteers we would have no fire coverage. I know some very jammed up firemen. Unfortunately the younger generation of volunteer firefighters at least in our area seem to think that a couple classes equals FDNY experience and knowledge. The biggest areas where I see volunteers struggle as opposed to paid guys. Usually fitness, professional presentation, professional scene management, And then the basic skills most volunteers only practice twice a month at best. Whereas most paid guys have to practice every shift. The differences do show through doesn't mean there should be any less respect for either one they're both doing the same job
Iād like to think I havenāt forgotten the volunteer department I came from. Most of the guys I work with also came from volunteer departments, and most of them didnāt either. That being said, the difference between my municipal academy and the part-time FF1 class I did as a volunteer were VERY clear once I got on the job. Even the radio etiquette/discipline I hear from the volunteer department is pronounced compared to where I work.
What about industrial firefighters that volunteer for a corporate fire department at their place of work? Edit: I work at an oil refinery.
This is just so, so dumb. You donāt think an OIL refinery has enough money to pay you?
What are you talking about? Where did anyone say anything about pay? Where did I say anything about not being paid enough? What is so, so dumb is your comment.
I was in a municipal department surrounded by volunteers in the rest of the county. We had a couple of mayors who's agenda was to shrink our department, so the vollies started getting called in on extra alarm fires. The problem we had with them was that their departments typically had a high turnover rate, so younger, inexperienced but over enthusiastic guys wanted to come in and tear stuff up. As an example, we had a smoke condition in a pub and had a trouble finding the source (turned out to be a smoldering trash can). The vollies showed up and proceeded to put up their ariel platform, bust out stained glass windows on the second floor, pull out and drop ac units, and took a chainsaw to the antique bar. It irked us but they got praised in the paper. And one time I was working on a roof alongside our county friends when I uncovered just a bit of fire at a dormer. One of their guys got all excited, fully opened an inch and a half line we had up there, and hit me square on the head, sending my helmet flying off the roof. I was lucky I didn't go with it.
I am someone who works in a combined career/volunteer department. In my dept, if you are doing EMS, there is generally a really good training culture, and they generally know what they are doing. for firefighting, its more mixed to find good people. there are a few stations id trust everyone there like they were career, there are more stations where if a volunteer rig showed up id be irritated
I honestly just never think about volunteer firefighters. The only interaction I ever have with volunteer firefighters is here on Reddit
My thought is, it's case by case. I know career guys that suck and I know volunteers that are great but all in all on the professional side I've noticed tons of networking, association, and status come into play. If someone disregards you once they find out you're a volunteer it could be as simple as them looking down on you or it could be they see zero status from interacting with you IE they can't get anything of use from you. Politics can play a huge role. You could easily see the tides turn if your department went professional. Guys could be reaching out to you to lateral transfer, network, etc. That said, volunteers can be such a wild card in comparison to career, there can be limited verification of your department's standard and therefore result in limited experience or knowledge. Not to say that isn't obtainable regardless of your career/volly status but it'll make plenty of career guys question your ability until they see it on an actual fire/emergency. Every time a volunteer posts some *Thank me for my service* video, obnoxiously shows off their gear, fights for their *deserved* respect from career guys, it drops volunteers down a peg and the cycle continues. You have shit bags posting and boasting about what they do and as a professional firefighter I rarely do that. It's seen as in bad taste. I love my job, I have times where I absolutely love talking about the job, but it isn't my place to boast on social media that that's what I do and that everyone needs to know. If I were insecure and needed approval/recognition, that's what I'd do. To finish, many of those guys that make those posts also appear bottom of the barrel. Neck beards, missing teeth, firefighter tattoos, wearing their torn gear indoors or demonstrating something they deem *heroic* that isn't. If you're a volly, you need to hold your crew accountable for acting like a jackass even if the department can't. You can't control those idiots but you can control yourself and the crew around you and act accordingly and regardless of your status, people will respect you even if they bust your balls about not being a paid guy.
So I started as a volunteer, and my department has always been a combination department back to the 1870s. Whether it was feeding the horses and shoveling shit or driving the steamer, there was a career guy. When I came on from the volunteer ranks the department was very much still in name a volunteer first career driver mentality. We run bls ems. The calls piled up and got so numerous most of the volunteers stopped coming for a multitude of reasons. Much was self-inflicted by putrid leadership, lack of rules and expectations for volunteers, and no recruitment outside of hanging a shingle out front of the station. Retention was non-existent. Now we are 17 career staff and moving to hire another 4-8 and promote a career chief in the not so distant future. We still have volunteers, but they do not affect our operations positively or negatively. Guys, come in, we train them up, and the ones with the right attitude get hired by us or move out of state for jobs. So i harbor a lot of resentment toward volunteers of the old guard in my department that say I only do this for the money. I also know they blatantly didn't show up during the lean years and vanished dueinf covid. Yes, I get paid. Just like they get paid at their jobs. I chose a career in the fire service, dont deflect your shortcomings on me because I do it as a career. I've been burned, fell through a floor, broken teeth and bones, and given 21 years of my life to this community. I've saved countless lives and been cited for valor a few times. I do it as a career because I enjoy the work and know I can make a difference. So, the answer to your question is that there are lots of terrible volunteers that are not ready for work , and I have zero respect for you. The few that show up, train hard, stay combat ready, and actually show up and work sode by side. I call my brother and treat him like he is a career guy.
āMarine corps style attitudeā for a volunteer firefighterā¦ I hope youāre joking because thatās the most cringe shit Iāve read in a while. Iāve seen guys who try to act like that and they are absolutely insufferable.
I donāt see how someone can approve people doing their job for free - itās not a hobby and it holds back the career as a whole. Are there solid volunteers? Sure. But for some reason it usually ends of being some career guy who just also wants to work for free. Again, shooting themself in the foot. Do you see volley nurses? Electricians? Pilots? No. Why is this any different?
There are loads of pilots, nurses and even electricians who volunteer in their spare time to serve their community, many people find being a volunteers firefighter to be a fulfilling and exciting way to give back to their communities.
Wayyyy fewer of those people volunteer. The number of people willing to do this job for free 100% hurts the profession on multiple fronts. Hard to leverage for more pay, benefits, etc when people are willing to do it for free.
Iām not so sure if you are correct, I think there are loads of people who volunteer for all sorts of things, and often times they leverage their skills and abilities for that purpose. For example, and accountant volunteering to do his churches taxes, or a chef catering a charity dinner at cost. You may be correct in certain places where volunteer firefighters depress wages of full time pros, but thatās not really relevant in counties that are entirely volunteer, or places that are only professional.
The reason places are still all volunteer is because we allow it to happenā¦what other profession has entire counties that are all volunteer? People whine that these counties rely on these services - yeah what a concept relying on FREE emergency services. When your dryer breaks or your pipe bursts do you call the volunteer plumber? No. You pay through the nose for it because that guy doesnāt work for free and neither do the other plumbers.
āI bring the marine corps style of attitude with me everyday.ā Aaaaannnddd this right here is the most cringe worthy character trait to hold and is one that most people go out of their way to avoid.
Just wanted to provide a quick perspective on this topic. As a volunteer in a small department in Canada, within a county that has only 100% volunteer departments (ambulances in Nova Scotia are not part of the FD), I have never met anyone who is a paid firefighter. I donāt know exactly but I estimate that there are roughly a dozen departments within our county of 2100 square kilometres and they all have some pretty decently populated areas to cover.Ā
Yes.
Starting my career in the fire service as a ācall member,ā I often felt overshadowed by the full-time staff. Looking back, the divide between call and full-time staff was quite evident. Today, as a career FF/AEMT, I see call company members as dedicated community members who genuinely want to help without seeking personal recognition. Their commitment is inspiring, though sometimes, Iām left shaking my head in disbelief.
Not usually
I always respected the hell out of them as a big city FF. We work a dangerous job that I wouldnāt do as a volunteer gig, hats off to them
In my personal experience, being that my area is dominated by paid departments, I'm not a fan of volunteers. NO. This does not mean all volunteers ever in the history of time, just those in my area. In my experience volunteer departments are filled with the lowest common denominator Bubba or Cletus who either A: Are unable to be hired at any paid department for physical restrictions or their wet smallpox blanket personality. Or B: Have any sort of legitimate mental development problem and are let on the volunteer department because other people feel bad for them. I do not need to tell anyone why both of those things are terrible, but beyond that, volunteer departments near me; Don't have any apparatus newer than 1976 Barely have working equipment on any of their apparatus Barely have enough gear for the 2 people who show up to fires Do not have enough SCBA for the 2 people who show up to fires Refuse to run anything except fire calls (they get 5 per year, maybe) All of these issues on top of the fact that they could easily merge into the county fire department, or, in one specific case, all 6 departments could merge into one and CREATE a county fire department that might actually be useful. But none of the chiefs want to lose their power, so they refuse. It sucks here, I hate our volunteers.
Not at all. Youāre performing a need for your community, without pay no less. Honestly itās more noble than going career.
Iām a big union guy. I think volunteers exist in a lot of places that have the means to staff full time professional firefighters and EMS providers, and honestly kinda look at people who volunteer in those places as scabs. Theyāre allowing municipalities to get away with not paying for skilled labor, and often providing far less guaranteed coverage than is appropriate for their service areas. In more rural areas, I understand that thereās not the means or even really the need for professional departments in a lot of places.
Not all, I do think a lot of volunteers are just there for the tshirt. I also think spending time away from your families and risking your life for free is silly.
Yes I do. Volunteers are just clubs that accept everyone. Career had to pay their dues, go to college and attend academies. There is a difference.
Not all volunteer departments are like that you know. Some are, sure. But definitely not all. Mine sure as hell isnāt. I went thru academy for 6 months and tested out with my Proboard Fire 1&2. Iāve done EVOC training and been certified to drive on calls. Iāve taken and passed a Proboard Incident Safety Officer course and a Proboard Fire instructor 1&2 course. Many others on my department have done similar training and taken the same classes I have. So by all means, donāt lump every volly house into your little box, because they donāt all fit.
Yes
Iām a Volunteer with a combination dept; previously was on an all-volunteer department. Iād say there is a much wider range of professionalism and skill across volunteer departments around the country (from what Iāve seen online), than between career depts across the country. There are going to be volunteer depts that are rock solid, and there are volunteer departments that are completely devoid of skill/training, structure, and professionalism. At my combo dept , almost all of the career guys started as volunteer, so i think that creates a good culture where volunteers all are treated with respect. That said, as a volunteer, I know itās difficult to keep my spear tips as pointy when Iām only working a couple shifts a month vs the career guys doing 4x as much time on as I am.
Tough question. If their training, knowledge and performance are up to par, then no. The difficult part is Iām from a big city department, busy truck, 4000+ calls a year, also part time at a combo, and training is non stop, physical fitness is mandatory and we have a way of doing things. If a volley dept isnāt up to those standards it makes it tough to accept. Not saying vollies arenāt up to the task, but for us ISO dictates a certain amount of training hours per year for all of us. We have to put it in. My PT dept is combo, young full timers paired with pat timers that are full time career guys from somewhere else, usually the city, and we bring our standards there, so their training and performance are up to the task.
Most folks won't know I'm a Volly until I show up at their emergency in turnouts. "Hey I didn't know you did this!" Yup almost 20 years now. No stickers on my pickup, couple of subdued almost hidden lights. My county has 3 bigger well equipped Volly depts. And two lesser so equipped ones. We have full time bigger agencies within 12-20 miles of us and they share their Dive, high angle, heavy rescue, etc. with us. If it's a mutual aid call from us to them generally it's water tanker support. If its from them to us it's generally for their more specialized training and equipment. If we call them and they get there to do their special things we become their support and step back. It just makes sense. "Hey yeah, bring your specialty equipment over so we can run it! Yeah right!" As far as I know nobody looks down on us. And if you're on your third bottle and your hose is going dry you are damn glad to see any kind of help.
I look down on departments not paying their firefighters
The issue there is that when departments "go paid", the volunteers don't suddenly get paid. They get replaced or made into combo benchwarmers. The reason most volunteers are so against having a paid service in their area is because it means they will be redundant or relegated to performing the boring crap 4th due jobs, if they even get an invite at all.
Thereās nothing worse then a shitty Honda accord with their lights on trying to blow through intersections
On volunteer firefighters - no. On volunteer EMS - absolutely. The amount of experience it takes to be a competent pre-hospital clinician is just too high for volunteers to ever be competent.
Interesting take. In my dept, we do both volunteer Fire and volunteer EMS. We donāt transport but weāre typically first on scene anywhere from 5 to 10 minutes before the paid ambulance. Iāve been doing Fire longer than EMS, but I feel way more confident on EMS. A bunch of guys in our dept have done it professionally and a couple of them are fire/paramedics or professional paramedics. Iāve learned from those guys. Iām pretty sure our paid guys appreciate us getting the ball rolling before they get there or having us on scene on codes and other serious calls, never mind the lift assists and falls.
If you get called to put out fires you are professionals.
I started as a volunteer; I am now career but I still volunteer. I get just as much crap from the volly firefighters about being a career guy as I do from career firefighters about being a volly. The only people career or volunteer who donāt bust by balls are the fireman. I canāt stand firefighters but I love hanging out with fireman. Getting ahead of this For the woke community; they are both gender neutral terms.
Yes
Do you provide a valuable service to your community? Yes. Are you taking union jobs away from future and current professionals? Also yes. š¤· Your community doesnāt want to āraise taxesā to fund a necessary service. Itās not your fault individually but they eventually will have to pay out if people stop showing up for free.
How are volunteers taking away union jobs? Most volunteer departments are rural, donāt have or want unions, and wouldnāt pay enough to attract career firefighters even if they did have the tax base to support one. Not to mention, a union career guy would get awfully bored waiting at the station for a week or 3 between calls. I guess at least the trucks would be shiny though
The whole reason Iām a volunteer is to learn more so I can get on a career, yeah Iām gonna wear my fucking radio and yeah Iām gonna wear my station clothes in public because Iām proud and existed for the department I work for, Iāve never heard of anyone wearing turn outs into restaurants and I think youāre cherry picking but whateves, 9 year volunteer is more embarrassing then that though
I believe the existence of volunteer fire departments is part of the reason why many fire departments get away with paying low wages. People are so desperate to be firefighters that theyāre willing to do it for free. If every volly quit, firefighters would be able to better advocate for their careers.