He 110% shut it off. The ONLY explanation is that the monitor was sent out, came back, and the settings were screwed up. The Zoll X series has close to like 900 factory setting options. I was on a code with a monitor that had just came back from Zoll. Hit analyze, everything was fine, then it just went back to the home screen. Did it again, same thing happened. Immediately told my LT to get the engines monitor. After the call 2 senior medics pulled the monitor and we're able to recreate my issue which cleared me of that.
Yeah that’s what I was thinking. The only reason there would have had the company look into that is because he obviously lied about not hitting the button and probably has a long history of lying/making excuses instead of owning up to mistakes.
You *turned off the cardiac monitor while actively pacing a patient*?!
Are you a paramedic? If not, why were you even *touching* the monitor while a patient was being paced? And if you are, how few patients do you see that you would be so unfamiliar with a critical piece of equipment?
I think I’m on the Chief’s side here. This is not a recoverable event when you’re already being remediated for less life-threatening deficiencies.
EMT since 2019 and recently AEMT, I was asked to move the monitor from the base to the stretcher, a basic task. The button is near the handle. But I didn't intentionally turn it off. I've done that without previous issues in the past. I appreciate your honesty.
I assume you’re talking about a Zoll X, about which I can honestly say that in the last 6 or so years my current agency has been using the same model, we have had ZERO such events. So that’s easily over 50,000 ALS calls. That button needs to be HELD DOWN to shut off. I can understand why it would seem to the Chief that you were paying *so little attention* as to be considered reckless.
This is as good an opportunity as any to work on your learning skills, maybe even meet with a resource group at a local community college or something to figure out the best way to make sure you can learn from multiple different teaching styles. Having something tangible in hand when you apply to your next department will go a long way in demonstrating that you took your deficiencies seriously and have worked to remedy them.
You come across as the paramedic who thinks they never make any mistakes. I’d hate to be your partner. You like jumping into a fire sub to hold some poor kids nuts to the flames or what?
Although his mistake was a pretty significant one, it’s still a mistake and doesn’t appear to have been done on purpose. maybe take it down a notch, the guys already paid with a career and a pension.
The fact you're trying to white-knight this is crazy. The power button is designed to be impossible to accidentally shut off. You have to HOLD it for about 5 seconds. If someone accidentally holds that button for that long when a patient is being paced, then they shouldn't be anywhere near patients. Hopefully, this other commenter is a wake-up call for OP.
Except you're trying to defend him for doing something extremely detrimental to patient outcome. Not to mention the entire post made it sound like an accident without owning up to it. They sent it out for inspection which means he lied when it happened and told them it randomly shit off, which is next to impossible with these monitors. He needs to hear this so he knows what he fucked up on.
He's the one coming here asking our opinions. So we are giving them.
Where have I defended him?
I’ve told a paramedic who had a shitty tone and was trying to embarrass the kid in her post, to maybe take it down a notch.
Then I made fun of another paramedic who in their post said they’d have fought the person who made the mistake and “put them in the hospital” , then made multiple references to how stupid everyone else is. So tough and so macho.
Neither of those are defending the kid. He paid for his mistake with his job, you want him strung up in public too? Does it make you feel good to come here and rip some guy to shreds when he’s probably in the worst place he’s ever been? Does it make you feel 10 feet tall.
My first thought on all this, was some people aren’t meant to be firefighters, doesn’t mean I needed to blast the fucking guy publicly, there are plenty of constructive comments doing so.
I didn’t kick the kid while he’s down; I pointed out the gravity of the error, but I also tried to give him some suggestions to shore up his learning style and encouraged him to apply at other departments once he’s done so.
If you’re familiar with Just Culture, you know the mindset is to console human error, counsel recklessness, and punish negligence. By OPs account, they started with the first one—the call continued, no one treated him poorly, he stayed on his shift. Then the department did an inquest into the incident, as appropriate, and unfortunately found in the course of that inquest that he was negligent. The fact that I agree with that assessment doesn’t mean I’m holding anyone’s nuts to the flame.
But if we’re being totally honest, I’m doubting OPs account of the incident. If he was completely up front about what happened and owned it immediately, they wouldn’t need to send the device off for query at the manufacturer.
As a former medic and firefighter who is now in technology, I totally agree that the account of the incident doesn't add up. The fact they sent the device out to have it examine says to me something like "it just shut off" was said instead of realizing the button was depressed and owning it.
These posts never give the full and accurate context. It’s usually some form of “it’s not my fault I’m being fired, I got screwed,” so I at least give op some credit, but I’m also pretty sure you’re arguing with op burner account
Everyone makes mistakes.
This is the kind of mistakes that kills people and flat out isn’t acceptable.
The kind of mistake that causes a paramedic to lose their license, a EMS to lose their EMS license, a medical director to have their medical license threatened.
You obviously don’t comprehend the seriousness of the situation.
The original reprimand seems to have taught the OP their lesson. While the initial scolding was warranted, there's no need to further berate someone who has already acknowledged their mistake. High-school level shit slinging seems to be what you're profecient at.
It’s impressive how much you’ve overblown this situation. You do know you can turn monitors back on and restart pacing right? Mistakes happen constantly in this field. Recognize it, fix it, and then train on it later. No one’s going to lose their license because someone accidentally turned a monitor off.
You know when you are pacing someone it is because the heart isn’t working right?
Probably not beating at all, meaningfully.
And that once capture is lost, it not Infrequently can’t be regained? Or a higher energy goes (causing more damage) is required.
I’d try and explain it in say, rope or trench rescue terms, and mistakes in those fields are just as final, since clearly EMS is to complicated for you, but it strikes me that your the kind of person who struggles with drafting portapond and parks the engine to draft so tankers can’t shuttle properly.
I 100% comprehend the situation. I’ve been a paramedic for 15 years.
The person paid for the mistake with a career and a pension. Let it be. He doesn’t need some nerd in here spouting off about how that’s NEVER happened in 50,000 als calls, yada yada yada.
The guy is already beat up, you wanna take some more shots at him for fun or what?
I’ve made mistakes… but I have never mistakenly turned off the monitor. I really don’t understand how you could accidentally turn off the monitor. The button is recessed, takes a decent amount of force to press, and the button has to be held for several seconds. That’s not a mistake. That’s straight up negligence. The fact that it resulted in patient harm makes it that much worse.
God I hope it was negligence because the only other alternative is intentional.
I thought I was already rather particular about people touching the monitor when I have something important going on, now I have even more reason to not let anyone touch my monitor in critical times.
You're thinking it's just this one mistake, but it could've been your crew not liking you and other little things and this so happened to be the perfect opportunity to let you go. Sorry to hear that it happened, but everyday is a new opportunity!
Maybe your story is missing more context, but it sounds like your department has been lenient with your mistakes and actively made efforts to help you. Unfortunately, you still continued making mistakes while on probation - and this was the straw that broke the camel’s back.
That sounds like common practice to me, however, don’t let it defeat you. Learn from these mistakes and move forward OP.
OP, don't take this as an attack, but from what you have said here it seems like this career may not be a good fit for you. By your own admission you demonstrate difficulty learning and recalling information and display a detrimental lack of attention to detail. This is a fast-paced learning environment with dire consequences sometimes. A department is only going to accommodate you so long before they have to let you go. Maybe you can try your luck getting hired on at another department in the future, but consider that you may succeed in another career field. There is no shame in that.
Some guys love the job, but the job doesn't love them.
If you’re an EMT or lower I’m not sure why you would be touching the monitor except for maybe moving it if the patient is being paced. Whenever I have a patient that is going to involve something like that, I’m the only one working the monitor unless my partner is a medic.
Long story short, doesn’t sound like you should have been put in that situation so don’t take it too hard.
Everyone is hiring, as long as you can pass all the pre-employment stuff you’ll be fine!
I’ve been in EMS 20 years. Been a medic for 3/4th of that.
Now, I can’t say I have great familiarity with zolls, or the new Phillpis.
But you can’t turn off the LP without holding the button. A while.
And if someone turned off my LP while I was pacing the patient, their termination would probably come after they got discharged from the hospital, and I consider myself a fairly level headed guy. I damned well wouldn’t let them on my scene whatever the call, I wouldn’t care if they were a white helmet, let alone a rookie.
And to be clear. I’ve always run in rural areas. I’ve taken random bystanders to help me with patients because they were the only help I had and I damned well needed help. I’ve had EMR/First responders do stuff with the monitor. 16 year old EMTs. Random fire fighters with no training. God help me even cops, and I don’t know what the State Police due at their academy to make Troopers, but there has to be a special lobotomy that removes any basic first aid they could have learned in Boy Scouts or high school health class on those dudes.
And never, *once* have I had someone turn my monitor off by *mistake*. Life saving medical equipment is specifically *designed* to not let that happen.
Maybe they've gotta set the equipment up to turn off with 2 button holds.. and also make it so it makes a lot of noise like a 5 gas detector just to shut it off..
I'm not certain as I've never actually tried (for obvious reasons), but I have a vague recollection from medic school that you actually CAN'T turn the lifepack off while it's actively pacing. I think it was brought up in a discussion as a safety feature built in for this exact reason, so you have to first turn off the pacing, and then hold the power button for several seconds, so it actually already has a two button hold in place. This may have been a lifepack specific feature though, other monitors may not have this.
I would think that while you're actively pacing someone or honestly doing anything but basic vitals that there'd be some form of a safety net on the device like, Are you sure you want to turn off? After 5 years in I've never had an issue, and you do need to HOLD it down to turn it off, and during the incident if all I did was move it .5 second to the stretcher than it shouldn't have turned off even if I glanced it.
So how long did you hold the button? We have the Zoll Xs and you have to hold it for close to 5 seconds to turn it off. That's more than just glancing it...
I didn't touch the button, or at least I don't think I did. You need to actively hold it to turn it off, which I obviously would never do purposefully.
It sounds like maybe the issue is less that the monitor was turned off (for whatever reason or the version of events that transpired ultimately being unimportant) and more that you didn’t own up to it.
In your post it sounds like they sent the monitor back and confirmed the button was pressed signaling a shutoff event. You denied it.
Can’t fix/remediate a problem someone insists doesn’t exist.
My suggestion? Be honest.
> I would think that while you're actively pacing someone or honestly doing anything but basic vitals that there'd be some form of a safety net on the device
There is - you literally have to press and *hold* the power button to shut it down.
Sounds like a big oops then, but when you’re on probation they can kick you for anything. Sucks a lot! But you’ll find somewhere new and maybe they’ll have a different style of teaching that you can learn better with 🤷♀️
Here’s my read on your situation, it’s not about that singular event. That was just the straw that broke the camels back. Sounds like you were on thin ice already and weren’t great at the job.
That’s what I tell my probies.. little mistakes are no problem, but a pattern of them is. Throw in a little undesirable personality trait, lack of following cultural norms, etc. All of that can tip the scale into the direction of termination.
Not saying you offended in any other way, but just my guess.
Also as a medic, I’d be extremely upset if anyone did this to my patient.
Hope things work out for you. You didn’t commit a cardinal sin and end up blacklisted by local departments. You just weren’t that good. Get better and try again. This could all be a distant memory one day as you get a captains badge pinned on your chest.
Best of luck.
Yes I said there was no intention as we were working the the patient.
I'd like to continue in this career but unsure if anyone will hire me. The fear is I'm wasting my time looking for this work, I have lots of licenses and certs that I'd hate to go to waste.
There are thousands of fire departments in the country. Things didn't work out at this one, but that doesn't mean you're banned from the profession. Apply to other departments, be upfront and honest about the problems you had, and be humble. You'll start off at your new department at a higher competency level than you started the last one... and you'll continue to improve.
As someone who has been let go of a dream job in their past (and nearly let go on a second one), I feel your pain and am wishing you the best in recovery - which you will do I have no doubt.
I too am a little hung up on the monitor being turned off. That’s a big one in cardiac calls and I know that as a medic I would have trouble controlling my anger if I found out it had been turned off. What if the patient was already being paced when it happened?
That said, with you moving it to the back of the cot, how did it come to turn off? Did you hit (and hold) the button with your finger? Was it getting squished between the top and back, causing something else to press down on it?
I know this doesn’t solve your problem - nothing here can. Onwards and upwards, man. You’ll find where you’re meant to be.
Probationary firefighters can be fired for just about anything. They are not considered permanent employees. The only thing the union can do is make sure the contract is followed.
Thanks for the positive message. Pt=patient sorry. While on probation you are not covered by the union. Yea I applied to other departments but will fear it's not the same.
Ah gotcha. I’ve been to 3 different departments this year by choice, just seeing how other places do things and if there’s one thing I’ve learned it’s that the firefighting community are great people, I have no doubt the next department you go to will be awesome 👍🏼 chin up mate
The way I read your post, you are a probationary firefighter, and they had you working the pump panel as a driver? I'm not sure how other departments operate, but you have to be in for a couple years and take additional classes. Or were you on probation after a promotion to driver?
I hate to be mean but I am struggling with how you turned off the monitor. I've used Lifepacks for 10 years, and while I'm not a paramedic, I'm pretty familiar with the basics of their use and you have to have a continuous push on the power button to shut it off.
I wish. We run 2-man engines. I was driving literally the same night as my swearing-in.
Even the “big city” department in my area rotate from back to front each tour.
Take a moment. Feel sorry for yourself. Tomorrow move on and forget it.
At my first department I had made stupid, and I mean STUPID mistakes. Small. minor. For some reason my probation went on. Not all their reasons made sense (I could dig into this but it isn't relevant to my point). Yet I admit I was having some stupid issues. Others joined and moved on fairly quick (at this department they would clear you as a EMT/Medic then clear you on fire and all had to be done in a year). One medic they cleared that joined 4 months after me couldnt' even hit an IV. No idea how that individual cleared medic when I was continually being held back.
In my case it was coming up on 10 months and there was no remediation nothing from my FTO other then suck less do better. I knew dept policy. 1 year. no more no less. It was getting to the point where crews weren't trusting me as a partner on the box.
I put in my two weeks. I was going out on my terms. Flash forward to now (15 years later) and I am thriving at another department. I am on the TEMS team, tech rescue, water rescue....I didn't make the same mistakes and moved through probation and FTO just fine.
What I am saying is sometimes a departments culture can be just enough to throw you off. Sometimes it's your FTO or your officers. Maybe you just weren't a good fit there or they weren't fitting in with you. Doesn't mean you won't excel at another department that has different training methods or better FTOs.
As far as FTOs go I am a big believer that at some point at the probation track you should be given a new FTO. Struggling? new FTO. Sometimes an FTO can just not GAF about a probie's development and it can come off during training.
I’m still trying to figure out how you accidentally turned the monitor off.
I guess with the ZollX if your hand is big enough, while grabbing the handle, you could sink a knuckle onto the power button and not realize it?
Honestly, if that’s the case and it’s even possible, it’s a design flaw. These things should be designed so even the most challenged of people can’t accidentally do that.
I’d prefer something like the LifePak where the button is in the front.
turning off the monitor accidentally okay i can understand that but i guess im confused as to how no one knew it was shut off?? maybe you guys did and fixed it quickly but if not thats more concerning in my opinion and more than likely not only your fault because the other medic should also have noticed it was turned off..
i know its hard to not think about it but we all make mistakes on this job its impossible not too. i hope you learn and keep practicing your skills and hopefully you get picked up by another department
There is no returning to that department. If you’re still interested in a career in the field, get your shit together and move things along for yourself. Try other departments. Continue to study.
Something to understand, no department is going to start making a paperwork trail for probie termination for someone they are satisfied with. Your end of employment was not truly a result of this incident, this incident simply gave them the cause to “terminate or resign” you. So you need to think long and hard well beyond this specific incident about where you went wrong. Whether it’s your attitude, personal accountability, distractedness, dishonesty, failure to adapt, etc.
You can recover in this career field but you have to be honest and accountable with yourself so you really understand how to improve. We can’t really do that for you.
Some people who post here are ridiculous. Honestly man it’s a blessing in disguise to start over at another department, sounds like the work culture at that place sucks. People make mistakes in this field constantly. Turning the monitor off in a critical situation isn’t that big of a deal…you just turn it back it on, shit happens. Hell I’m a medic and dealt with much worse mistakes. It’s called the practice of medicine. Yeah it sucks getting booted at the end of probation but you take what you learned and find a better department.
Just a little tough love because I don’t know you but can kinda relate so hear me out.
I’m a ff/medic w 10+ years and have worked w every monitor from Philips, zoll, lifepack, and it’s literally impossible to accidentally trip fall and power it off, you have to really be trying to turn it off. But anyways I wasn’t there to sspeak on it but my advice is, it’s 100% possible to come back from being fired but you have to own what happened and you going into another hiring board to say it was a accident, if they have any ems experience they aren’t going to believe you,
Damm bromie. You definitely fucked up, but alas my friend it happens. Apply elsewhere and move on you will not get re hired here and honestly it's best you distance yourself from this glorious fuck up. Alot of departments are in a shortage for applicants so honestly as long as you have a pulse you can get hired, least that's how it is where I'm at. Lastly if you do get hired somewhere else maybe do your best to limit your exposure on this issue, but that said if they ask you directly don't lie. Goodluck
My question to you is, what did you tell everyone when the monitor shut off? Based on your replies to other comments, you’re saying that you never touched the power button, but if that was the case how come the company was able to determine that it was manually shut off? This is important because you need to have integrity when you mess up. If you’ve made excuses before about mistakes and then this happened, it would be pretty easy to fall out of favor with your department. If you didn’t own up to pushing the button or said anything that cannot be fully proven as true then in the eyes of command you wasted their time with a lie.
I would also say that this job, especially with the EMS side of things needs you to be able to be taught something once and remember it. It’s your responsibility to learn and absorb as much as you can as quickly as you can. At a certain point if you can’t do that it’s a drain on your departments resources.
It sucks that you got fired, but if I were you I’d learn from this experience and try to transfer it over to another department or job. Maybe this career isn’t the perfect match and it’s time to find something new? Hopefully things work out for you.
I owned up to what happened, I still had to write a statement and the device was still sent out. In the email the chief said in a "silo this is a recoverable event" unless I'm wrong but that tells me the monitor issue isn't really an issue. And if I'm still on probation to build on the skills he wants me to be proficient in, which I was improving (per SFF, Lt, and Capt), why let me go? Was I perfect, no but, I poured everything into that job gave it 110% everyday. Again I was well liked and was a team player.
Here's the thing- you were already on extended probation. You took a little too long to recognize an area that was lacking and this was a compound issue.
Sounds like things easily solved by introspection, personal growth, maturity- which is a good thing, in my book, because you get to choose those. This will very possibly come up in future interviews if your area is smaller, or even if it isn't, and "I don't know how the monitor screwed itself up" is a very bad answer.
Use this to learn, grow, and move forward- you'll stand a great shot at a long fire service career.
For the record- my rescue truck (International cab, massive toolbox rear, no actual water or pump, sheerly for extrication, HazMat, technical rescue stuff) was unoccupied and collided with the rear of a parked, heavily occupied ambulance.
I've messed up, I just wasn't on probation, and had established a bit of trust, *and* fortunately it was my first, volunteer, job. So I got lucky, and I always checked parking brake AND Neutral settings on trucks now. Crap happens. Own it. Learn. Keep on. You can do this.
Hmm well, where I'm at if you're paying into the union you get represented and protected by the union. So of he wasn't paying into it then I guess that answers that
I don’t understand why you would turn it off. If it’s a lifepqk it’s a big green button that you have to hold for a second unlike the others that you just tap. So how could you do that without trying to turn it off?
If you want it badly enough, this career is for you. Some people have a different learning curve and need more time to develop before going into it.
For context I’ll use myself as an example. I want to be a fire fighter so badly but I had to quit my fire fighter job because I need to get in shape and mature a bit more. I made the choice to quit because I don’t wanna be a liability on shift(because as of right now, I would be)
My next steps? I’m gonna go be an EMT for a while and learn those skills(and get in shape) before I even think about applying to another fire department again.
It’s all about what works best for you. If you’re making mistakes and continue to make those same mistakes, then you need to reevaluate and start at a level where you only have to focus on one thing.
My advice is, go be an EMT for a while, learn those skills and keep them sharp(and stay in shape while doing so!) then come back with a fire and a passion to learn everything there is about fighting fire. Watch videos on the skills you weren’t doing well on and then see if you can go volunteer as a FF to apply those skills.
When you shut off the monitor, did you own up to it or did you really just let them send the monitor out?
He 110% shut it off. The ONLY explanation is that the monitor was sent out, came back, and the settings were screwed up. The Zoll X series has close to like 900 factory setting options. I was on a code with a monitor that had just came back from Zoll. Hit analyze, everything was fine, then it just went back to the home screen. Did it again, same thing happened. Immediately told my LT to get the engines monitor. After the call 2 senior medics pulled the monitor and we're able to recreate my issue which cleared me of that.
Yeah that’s what I was thinking. The only reason there would have had the company look into that is because he obviously lied about not hitting the button and probably has a long history of lying/making excuses instead of owning up to mistakes.
You *turned off the cardiac monitor while actively pacing a patient*?! Are you a paramedic? If not, why were you even *touching* the monitor while a patient was being paced? And if you are, how few patients do you see that you would be so unfamiliar with a critical piece of equipment? I think I’m on the Chief’s side here. This is not a recoverable event when you’re already being remediated for less life-threatening deficiencies.
EMT since 2019 and recently AEMT, I was asked to move the monitor from the base to the stretcher, a basic task. The button is near the handle. But I didn't intentionally turn it off. I've done that without previous issues in the past. I appreciate your honesty.
I assume you’re talking about a Zoll X, about which I can honestly say that in the last 6 or so years my current agency has been using the same model, we have had ZERO such events. So that’s easily over 50,000 ALS calls. That button needs to be HELD DOWN to shut off. I can understand why it would seem to the Chief that you were paying *so little attention* as to be considered reckless. This is as good an opportunity as any to work on your learning skills, maybe even meet with a resource group at a local community college or something to figure out the best way to make sure you can learn from multiple different teaching styles. Having something tangible in hand when you apply to your next department will go a long way in demonstrating that you took your deficiencies seriously and have worked to remedy them.
You come across as the paramedic who thinks they never make any mistakes. I’d hate to be your partner. You like jumping into a fire sub to hold some poor kids nuts to the flames or what? Although his mistake was a pretty significant one, it’s still a mistake and doesn’t appear to have been done on purpose. maybe take it down a notch, the guys already paid with a career and a pension.
The fact you're trying to white-knight this is crazy. The power button is designed to be impossible to accidentally shut off. You have to HOLD it for about 5 seconds. If someone accidentally holds that button for that long when a patient is being paced, then they shouldn't be anywhere near patients. Hopefully, this other commenter is a wake-up call for OP.
And what's his finger doing touching the button at all if he's actively being paced...?
Right. More happened here than what was reported in the post 🤷♂️
I ain’t white knighting shit. I understand and don’t disagree, that’s why they fired the guy. Like what more do you want?
Except you're trying to defend him for doing something extremely detrimental to patient outcome. Not to mention the entire post made it sound like an accident without owning up to it. They sent it out for inspection which means he lied when it happened and told them it randomly shit off, which is next to impossible with these monitors. He needs to hear this so he knows what he fucked up on. He's the one coming here asking our opinions. So we are giving them.
Where have I defended him? I’ve told a paramedic who had a shitty tone and was trying to embarrass the kid in her post, to maybe take it down a notch. Then I made fun of another paramedic who in their post said they’d have fought the person who made the mistake and “put them in the hospital” , then made multiple references to how stupid everyone else is. So tough and so macho. Neither of those are defending the kid. He paid for his mistake with his job, you want him strung up in public too? Does it make you feel good to come here and rip some guy to shreds when he’s probably in the worst place he’s ever been? Does it make you feel 10 feet tall. My first thought on all this, was some people aren’t meant to be firefighters, doesn’t mean I needed to blast the fucking guy publicly, there are plenty of constructive comments doing so.
He made a public post. He asked for opinions and advice. He's getting it. And you're mad people are responding 😂
Ok man, whatever you say
I didn’t kick the kid while he’s down; I pointed out the gravity of the error, but I also tried to give him some suggestions to shore up his learning style and encouraged him to apply at other departments once he’s done so. If you’re familiar with Just Culture, you know the mindset is to console human error, counsel recklessness, and punish negligence. By OPs account, they started with the first one—the call continued, no one treated him poorly, he stayed on his shift. Then the department did an inquest into the incident, as appropriate, and unfortunately found in the course of that inquest that he was negligent. The fact that I agree with that assessment doesn’t mean I’m holding anyone’s nuts to the flame. But if we’re being totally honest, I’m doubting OPs account of the incident. If he was completely up front about what happened and owned it immediately, they wouldn’t need to send the device off for query at the manufacturer.
As a former medic and firefighter who is now in technology, I totally agree that the account of the incident doesn't add up. The fact they sent the device out to have it examine says to me something like "it just shut off" was said instead of realizing the button was depressed and owning it.
These posts never give the full and accurate context. It’s usually some form of “it’s not my fault I’m being fired, I got screwed,” so I at least give op some credit, but I’m also pretty sure you’re arguing with op burner account
Everyone makes mistakes. This is the kind of mistakes that kills people and flat out isn’t acceptable. The kind of mistake that causes a paramedic to lose their license, a EMS to lose their EMS license, a medical director to have their medical license threatened. You obviously don’t comprehend the seriousness of the situation.
The original reprimand seems to have taught the OP their lesson. While the initial scolding was warranted, there's no need to further berate someone who has already acknowledged their mistake. High-school level shit slinging seems to be what you're profecient at.
It’s impressive how much you’ve overblown this situation. You do know you can turn monitors back on and restart pacing right? Mistakes happen constantly in this field. Recognize it, fix it, and then train on it later. No one’s going to lose their license because someone accidentally turned a monitor off.
You know when you are pacing someone it is because the heart isn’t working right? Probably not beating at all, meaningfully. And that once capture is lost, it not Infrequently can’t be regained? Or a higher energy goes (causing more damage) is required. I’d try and explain it in say, rope or trench rescue terms, and mistakes in those fields are just as final, since clearly EMS is to complicated for you, but it strikes me that your the kind of person who struggles with drafting portapond and parks the engine to draft so tankers can’t shuttle properly.
Wait shouldn’t you be doing cpr if someone’s heart isn’t beating? Glad we don’t work together!
I 100% comprehend the situation. I’ve been a paramedic for 15 years. The person paid for the mistake with a career and a pension. Let it be. He doesn’t need some nerd in here spouting off about how that’s NEVER happened in 50,000 als calls, yada yada yada. The guy is already beat up, you wanna take some more shots at him for fun or what?
I’ve made mistakes… but I have never mistakenly turned off the monitor. I really don’t understand how you could accidentally turn off the monitor. The button is recessed, takes a decent amount of force to press, and the button has to be held for several seconds. That’s not a mistake. That’s straight up negligence. The fact that it resulted in patient harm makes it that much worse. God I hope it was negligence because the only other alternative is intentional. I thought I was already rather particular about people touching the monitor when I have something important going on, now I have even more reason to not let anyone touch my monitor in critical times.
You're thinking it's just this one mistake, but it could've been your crew not liking you and other little things and this so happened to be the perfect opportunity to let you go. Sorry to hear that it happened, but everyday is a new opportunity!
Maybe your story is missing more context, but it sounds like your department has been lenient with your mistakes and actively made efforts to help you. Unfortunately, you still continued making mistakes while on probation - and this was the straw that broke the camel’s back. That sounds like common practice to me, however, don’t let it defeat you. Learn from these mistakes and move forward OP.
OP, don't take this as an attack, but from what you have said here it seems like this career may not be a good fit for you. By your own admission you demonstrate difficulty learning and recalling information and display a detrimental lack of attention to detail. This is a fast-paced learning environment with dire consequences sometimes. A department is only going to accommodate you so long before they have to let you go. Maybe you can try your luck getting hired on at another department in the future, but consider that you may succeed in another career field. There is no shame in that. Some guys love the job, but the job doesn't love them.
It might even be that you can still work for the department, but in a different role. Admin, social media, volunteer to help at events, etc.
If you’re an EMT or lower I’m not sure why you would be touching the monitor except for maybe moving it if the patient is being paced. Whenever I have a patient that is going to involve something like that, I’m the only one working the monitor unless my partner is a medic. Long story short, doesn’t sound like you should have been put in that situation so don’t take it too hard. Everyone is hiring, as long as you can pass all the pre-employment stuff you’ll be fine!
I’ve been in EMS 20 years. Been a medic for 3/4th of that. Now, I can’t say I have great familiarity with zolls, or the new Phillpis. But you can’t turn off the LP without holding the button. A while. And if someone turned off my LP while I was pacing the patient, their termination would probably come after they got discharged from the hospital, and I consider myself a fairly level headed guy. I damned well wouldn’t let them on my scene whatever the call, I wouldn’t care if they were a white helmet, let alone a rookie. And to be clear. I’ve always run in rural areas. I’ve taken random bystanders to help me with patients because they were the only help I had and I damned well needed help. I’ve had EMR/First responders do stuff with the monitor. 16 year old EMTs. Random fire fighters with no training. God help me even cops, and I don’t know what the State Police due at their academy to make Troopers, but there has to be a special lobotomy that removes any basic first aid they could have learned in Boy Scouts or high school health class on those dudes. And never, *once* have I had someone turn my monitor off by *mistake*. Life saving medical equipment is specifically *designed* to not let that happen.
The Zoll X series is the same - it requires pressing and holding to power off the monitor.
Maybe they've gotta set the equipment up to turn off with 2 button holds.. and also make it so it makes a lot of noise like a 5 gas detector just to shut it off..
I'm not certain as I've never actually tried (for obvious reasons), but I have a vague recollection from medic school that you actually CAN'T turn the lifepack off while it's actively pacing. I think it was brought up in a discussion as a safety feature built in for this exact reason, so you have to first turn off the pacing, and then hold the power button for several seconds, so it actually already has a two button hold in place. This may have been a lifepack specific feature though, other monitors may not have this.
Such a hero, I bet you blouse your boots and have no less than 37 pouches on your duty belt 🫡
I would think that while you're actively pacing someone or honestly doing anything but basic vitals that there'd be some form of a safety net on the device like, Are you sure you want to turn off? After 5 years in I've never had an issue, and you do need to HOLD it down to turn it off, and during the incident if all I did was move it .5 second to the stretcher than it shouldn't have turned off even if I glanced it.
So how long did you hold the button? We have the Zoll Xs and you have to hold it for close to 5 seconds to turn it off. That's more than just glancing it...
I didn't touch the button, or at least I don't think I did. You need to actively hold it to turn it off, which I obviously would never do purposefully.
But you did. So that's the part that's confusing. You HAVE to hold the button for an extended period of time. It's designed like that for a reason.
It sounds like maybe the issue is less that the monitor was turned off (for whatever reason or the version of events that transpired ultimately being unimportant) and more that you didn’t own up to it. In your post it sounds like they sent the monitor back and confirmed the button was pressed signaling a shutoff event. You denied it. Can’t fix/remediate a problem someone insists doesn’t exist. My suggestion? Be honest.
> I would think that while you're actively pacing someone or honestly doing anything but basic vitals that there'd be some form of a safety net on the device There is - you literally have to press and *hold* the power button to shut it down.
Been EMT since 2019 and recently AEMT, I was asked to place it on the stretcher (simple task) as I have done plenty in the past.
Sounds like a big oops then, but when you’re on probation they can kick you for anything. Sucks a lot! But you’ll find somewhere new and maybe they’ll have a different style of teaching that you can learn better with 🤷♀️
Here’s my read on your situation, it’s not about that singular event. That was just the straw that broke the camels back. Sounds like you were on thin ice already and weren’t great at the job. That’s what I tell my probies.. little mistakes are no problem, but a pattern of them is. Throw in a little undesirable personality trait, lack of following cultural norms, etc. All of that can tip the scale into the direction of termination. Not saying you offended in any other way, but just my guess. Also as a medic, I’d be extremely upset if anyone did this to my patient. Hope things work out for you. You didn’t commit a cardinal sin and end up blacklisted by local departments. You just weren’t that good. Get better and try again. This could all be a distant memory one day as you get a captains badge pinned on your chest. Best of luck.
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Yes I said there was no intention as we were working the the patient. I'd like to continue in this career but unsure if anyone will hire me. The fear is I'm wasting my time looking for this work, I have lots of licenses and certs that I'd hate to go to waste.
There are thousands of fire departments in the country. Things didn't work out at this one, but that doesn't mean you're banned from the profession. Apply to other departments, be upfront and honest about the problems you had, and be humble. You'll start off at your new department at a higher competency level than you started the last one... and you'll continue to improve.
As someone who has been let go of a dream job in their past (and nearly let go on a second one), I feel your pain and am wishing you the best in recovery - which you will do I have no doubt. I too am a little hung up on the monitor being turned off. That’s a big one in cardiac calls and I know that as a medic I would have trouble controlling my anger if I found out it had been turned off. What if the patient was already being paced when it happened? That said, with you moving it to the back of the cot, how did it come to turn off? Did you hit (and hold) the button with your finger? Was it getting squished between the top and back, causing something else to press down on it? I know this doesn’t solve your problem - nothing here can. Onwards and upwards, man. You’ll find where you’re meant to be.
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PT probably means patient. I am also betting that his union can’t represent members on probation. Or that probationary FF can be fired without cause.
Probationary firefighters can be fired for just about anything. They are not considered permanent employees. The only thing the union can do is make sure the contract is followed.
Often times probies aren’t covered by the union anyways.
Thanks for the positive message. Pt=patient sorry. While on probation you are not covered by the union. Yea I applied to other departments but will fear it's not the same.
Ah gotcha. I’ve been to 3 different departments this year by choice, just seeing how other places do things and if there’s one thing I’ve learned it’s that the firefighting community are great people, I have no doubt the next department you go to will be awesome 👍🏼 chin up mate
Patient.
The way I read your post, you are a probationary firefighter, and they had you working the pump panel as a driver? I'm not sure how other departments operate, but you have to be in for a couple years and take additional classes. Or were you on probation after a promotion to driver? I hate to be mean but I am struggling with how you turned off the monitor. I've used Lifepacks for 10 years, and while I'm not a paramedic, I'm pretty familiar with the basics of their use and you have to have a continuous push on the power button to shut it off.
Very common at smaller departments, everybody has to be able to do everything by the time they’re done probation.
Ahh. I can see that. I've always been told get good at the back before you do the front.
That definitely makes sense for bigger departments, it gets tough trying to cram everything into a year.
I wish. We run 2-man engines. I was driving literally the same night as my swearing-in. Even the “big city” department in my area rotate from back to front each tour.
Take a moment. Feel sorry for yourself. Tomorrow move on and forget it. At my first department I had made stupid, and I mean STUPID mistakes. Small. minor. For some reason my probation went on. Not all their reasons made sense (I could dig into this but it isn't relevant to my point). Yet I admit I was having some stupid issues. Others joined and moved on fairly quick (at this department they would clear you as a EMT/Medic then clear you on fire and all had to be done in a year). One medic they cleared that joined 4 months after me couldnt' even hit an IV. No idea how that individual cleared medic when I was continually being held back. In my case it was coming up on 10 months and there was no remediation nothing from my FTO other then suck less do better. I knew dept policy. 1 year. no more no less. It was getting to the point where crews weren't trusting me as a partner on the box. I put in my two weeks. I was going out on my terms. Flash forward to now (15 years later) and I am thriving at another department. I am on the TEMS team, tech rescue, water rescue....I didn't make the same mistakes and moved through probation and FTO just fine. What I am saying is sometimes a departments culture can be just enough to throw you off. Sometimes it's your FTO or your officers. Maybe you just weren't a good fit there or they weren't fitting in with you. Doesn't mean you won't excel at another department that has different training methods or better FTOs. As far as FTOs go I am a big believer that at some point at the probation track you should be given a new FTO. Struggling? new FTO. Sometimes an FTO can just not GAF about a probie's development and it can come off during training.
I’m still trying to figure out how you accidentally turned the monitor off. I guess with the ZollX if your hand is big enough, while grabbing the handle, you could sink a knuckle onto the power button and not realize it? Honestly, if that’s the case and it’s even possible, it’s a design flaw. These things should be designed so even the most challenged of people can’t accidentally do that. I’d prefer something like the LifePak where the button is in the front.
Sorry to hear boss. Keep your chin up and learn from your mistakes is all a stranger can say. Best of luck
turning off the monitor accidentally okay i can understand that but i guess im confused as to how no one knew it was shut off?? maybe you guys did and fixed it quickly but if not thats more concerning in my opinion and more than likely not only your fault because the other medic should also have noticed it was turned off.. i know its hard to not think about it but we all make mistakes on this job its impossible not too. i hope you learn and keep practicing your skills and hopefully you get picked up by another department
There is no returning to that department. If you’re still interested in a career in the field, get your shit together and move things along for yourself. Try other departments. Continue to study. Something to understand, no department is going to start making a paperwork trail for probie termination for someone they are satisfied with. Your end of employment was not truly a result of this incident, this incident simply gave them the cause to “terminate or resign” you. So you need to think long and hard well beyond this specific incident about where you went wrong. Whether it’s your attitude, personal accountability, distractedness, dishonesty, failure to adapt, etc. You can recover in this career field but you have to be honest and accountable with yourself so you really understand how to improve. We can’t really do that for you.
Thanks for the hard truth.
Some people who post here are ridiculous. Honestly man it’s a blessing in disguise to start over at another department, sounds like the work culture at that place sucks. People make mistakes in this field constantly. Turning the monitor off in a critical situation isn’t that big of a deal…you just turn it back it on, shit happens. Hell I’m a medic and dealt with much worse mistakes. It’s called the practice of medicine. Yeah it sucks getting booted at the end of probation but you take what you learned and find a better department.
There is more to this story than just pumping bro
Just a little tough love because I don’t know you but can kinda relate so hear me out. I’m a ff/medic w 10+ years and have worked w every monitor from Philips, zoll, lifepack, and it’s literally impossible to accidentally trip fall and power it off, you have to really be trying to turn it off. But anyways I wasn’t there to sspeak on it but my advice is, it’s 100% possible to come back from being fired but you have to own what happened and you going into another hiring board to say it was a accident, if they have any ems experience they aren’t going to believe you,
Damm bromie. You definitely fucked up, but alas my friend it happens. Apply elsewhere and move on you will not get re hired here and honestly it's best you distance yourself from this glorious fuck up. Alot of departments are in a shortage for applicants so honestly as long as you have a pulse you can get hired, least that's how it is where I'm at. Lastly if you do get hired somewhere else maybe do your best to limit your exposure on this issue, but that said if they ask you directly don't lie. Goodluck
My question to you is, what did you tell everyone when the monitor shut off? Based on your replies to other comments, you’re saying that you never touched the power button, but if that was the case how come the company was able to determine that it was manually shut off? This is important because you need to have integrity when you mess up. If you’ve made excuses before about mistakes and then this happened, it would be pretty easy to fall out of favor with your department. If you didn’t own up to pushing the button or said anything that cannot be fully proven as true then in the eyes of command you wasted their time with a lie. I would also say that this job, especially with the EMS side of things needs you to be able to be taught something once and remember it. It’s your responsibility to learn and absorb as much as you can as quickly as you can. At a certain point if you can’t do that it’s a drain on your departments resources. It sucks that you got fired, but if I were you I’d learn from this experience and try to transfer it over to another department or job. Maybe this career isn’t the perfect match and it’s time to find something new? Hopefully things work out for you.
I’m pretty sure my medic would beat me with the monitor if I did that even my accident
I owned up to what happened, I still had to write a statement and the device was still sent out. In the email the chief said in a "silo this is a recoverable event" unless I'm wrong but that tells me the monitor issue isn't really an issue. And if I'm still on probation to build on the skills he wants me to be proficient in, which I was improving (per SFF, Lt, and Capt), why let me go? Was I perfect, no but, I poured everything into that job gave it 110% everyday. Again I was well liked and was a team player.
Here's the thing- you were already on extended probation. You took a little too long to recognize an area that was lacking and this was a compound issue. Sounds like things easily solved by introspection, personal growth, maturity- which is a good thing, in my book, because you get to choose those. This will very possibly come up in future interviews if your area is smaller, or even if it isn't, and "I don't know how the monitor screwed itself up" is a very bad answer. Use this to learn, grow, and move forward- you'll stand a great shot at a long fire service career. For the record- my rescue truck (International cab, massive toolbox rear, no actual water or pump, sheerly for extrication, HazMat, technical rescue stuff) was unoccupied and collided with the rear of a parked, heavily occupied ambulance. I've messed up, I just wasn't on probation, and had established a bit of trust, *and* fortunately it was my first, volunteer, job. So I got lucky, and I always checked parking brake AND Neutral settings on trucks now. Crap happens. Own it. Learn. Keep on. You can do this.
Where was the union for this?
No union protection when you’re on probation.
Hmm well, where I'm at if you're paying into the union you get represented and protected by the union. So of he wasn't paying into it then I guess that answers that
I’m guessing your new guys don’t get into the union until they’re done with probation then?
I don’t understand why you would turn it off. If it’s a lifepqk it’s a big green button that you have to hold for a second unlike the others that you just tap. So how could you do that without trying to turn it off?
Zoll x monitor the button is on top, right next to the only handle. I didn't turn it off purposely. Zoll is a solid 3+ second hold to turn off.
If you want it badly enough, this career is for you. Some people have a different learning curve and need more time to develop before going into it. For context I’ll use myself as an example. I want to be a fire fighter so badly but I had to quit my fire fighter job because I need to get in shape and mature a bit more. I made the choice to quit because I don’t wanna be a liability on shift(because as of right now, I would be) My next steps? I’m gonna go be an EMT for a while and learn those skills(and get in shape) before I even think about applying to another fire department again. It’s all about what works best for you. If you’re making mistakes and continue to make those same mistakes, then you need to reevaluate and start at a level where you only have to focus on one thing. My advice is, go be an EMT for a while, learn those skills and keep them sharp(and stay in shape while doing so!) then come back with a fire and a passion to learn everything there is about fighting fire. Watch videos on the skills you weren’t doing well on and then see if you can go volunteer as a FF to apply those skills.