I'm an immigrant who is now a United States citizen, and I'm grateful for being in America and helping to build this wonderful nation. That said, I received my citizenship through a long and hard process. I spent money, I learned about the country, and I will say two things.
One is sad: Some Americans say we are not part of America, even though I earned the right to be here. They make me feel bad and less American.
But for those who say I'm a legitimate American, I will be ready to fight against any threats, including those from domestic fascists and terrorists. I will resistâit's a right.
I am definitely in the second group. You are not less American - those tests are hard! I bet most ânatural bornâ Americans couldnât pass it, myself included. Itâs just a way to try and further invalidate your experience. Be proud of all the work you put into this! I am proud of you.
Thank you so much! This is really important and good to read and listen to.
I love this country. I came all the way legally, and it was my choice. It wasn't easy to leave a place with friends, different culture, food, and language, but it was worth it.
I know the country has a lot of problems right now, but believe me, it is far better than the problems where I came from. I feel blessed being here and sometimes even ashamed of how the people from my country live.
For those who have nothing, the American dream is still alive.
But I'm not here to be a dreamer; I'm here to help make this a better place. It's possible, it's worth it, and it should be the mindset of everyone. But those who ask for segregation, they shall not pass.
As a "natural born" American and the son of a veteran I can say I probably couldn't pass one of those tests. I have mad respect for anybody who's willing to navigate the process of leaving their country and coming all the way to the states for a better life, y'all probably been through some serious shit and deserve better than a 2 ton 4th generation inbreeding result saying that you don't belong here.
This country was made by immigrants, for immigrants, and that's how it should stay.
(Please excuse the writing errors, I'm an idiot)
Yup. They didn't have to immigrate here legally, their legality was automatically handed to them.
"Land of the free" has always been nothing but a false slogan meant to attract a certain group of Europeans (don't forget that Irish, Germans, Greeks, and others faced bigotry). It has never applied to everyone. Ever.
I don't think people comprehend the time, money, and TIME it takes to become a citizen. You, 100% know more about this country than a concerning amount of US born citizens.
You are an American because you are an American. Plain and simple.
Not an immigrant myself but my grandparents on my motherâs side are. Iâll fight as hard as I have to for them and for everyone. For many, immigrating to America is the only way to ensure the future & safety of their current and future family. I donât understand what could be going through these peoples heads when they state that immigrants arenât genuine citizens & even dehumanize them.
If you're a legal citizen, you are an American. Welcome to the once greatest nation on Earth. Sorry about the mess. But for real, welcome and I'm glad you're here.
There was a time, not long ago, when the Italians, the Irish, the Germans, were not considered âAmericanâ enough. Then these oppressed groups assimilate and soon become the new oppressors when the next generation comes along (Korean immigrants, Mexican immigrants, etc).
I wish we didnât just teach history lessons as dates to remember, but emphasize how it repeats itself if weâre not mindful.
This isnt an argument against Healthcare reform, it's an argument to not get into a situation we can't handle. I don't defend our Healthcare system but it's not like we're gonna fix it by adding an unknown number of people to it.
They reduce prices by working for less money, therefore more money in the economy, therefore more money for health care, and if that happens, it's because of them so they should be allowed to partake. An I missing anything?
Them working for less does not translate to more money in the economy, that just translates to fewer people (business owners) pocketing MORE money and everyone else having less.
depends on how much of the price of groceries you associate with employees costs. there are other factors that effect the supply chain that all increased.
Just a friendly heads up: no immigrant to this country ever, up until the last couple of decades, got healthcare or had equal rights. Many still don't.
Country borders are just a holdover from colonialism. If we're going to have an immigration process, it should be as straightford, quick and easy as possible.
I mean what's ironic? It's An American tradition to take what you can get then pull up the ladder and say you should have been up there before the ladder was pulled ;)
It would be much more efficient to provide more housing. MUCH more efficient. And many people do provide housing for refugees. You probably vote conservative, you don't get to tell people who vote for candidates that are more pro-housing subsidies that they should then just open up their whole home. Yikes.
At least the initial immigrants were able to be processed correctly.
We, for absolutely no reason, shot ourselves in the foot with our policies and refuse to process the people who want to become citizens and focus hard on kicking out the ones who don't give a rat's arse about it so they can sneak back in in a month's time.
Greenland is one. As a country they have not had any genocide.
Edit: (they were absorbed by denmark, no longer an autonomous country, I update my original comment.)
No need, already moved to another cpuntry.
You seem motivated to dunk on anyone who doesnât kiss the usaâs ass so Iâll say this:
Live in the usa most pf mylife, Itâs a fascist slave driving hellhole.
Moved to australia cause fuck going back.
Very happy here, not going back because again, Fuck that noise. :D
Never good. But no nation has been developed or maintained without blood. You think you will find a place on this planet that has less blood shed for a greater standard of living. By all means go to that place.
Can't imagine why the "illegal" part is bad. [It's not like the very first immigration law has a problem or anything.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Exclusion_Act)
The short is most people arenât mad about legal immigrants. Illegal immigrants however do tend to pose a lot of problems with both the economy and the perception of legal immigrants.
That's just not true. Even from a purely capitalist standpoint, immigrants are not only good but necessary to our economy. It is true that because undocumented immigrants aren't granted the same rights and protections as citizens, they are exploited by employers - paid less, forced to work under dangerous conditions, etc. If all workers were paid more fairly, had more reasonable protections, and we actually held corporations accountable for illegal actions, then everyone would be treated better, including undocumented immigrants.
The bad perception of legal and undocumented immigrants is driven by politicians who use immigrants as a scapegoat because 1) decade after decade immigrants have always been the first scapegoat due to their vulnerable, exploitable status 2) these politicians don't have a good economic plan that actually benefits the average working American. So they distract from that by blaming immigrants.
Plus the media profits from anti-immigrant sensationalism and is owned by right-wing fascist businessmen who support right-wing political campaigns. Right-wing outrage media gets more views.
While on paper thatâs great but in practice that doesnât appear to be completely true. Thereâs a few things currently going on that though.
So for âlow paying wagesâ to not make an impact on things they have to actually be better low paying and not just set to be âa livable wageâ. So just discussing this as wages right now weâve forced wages to go higher which has lead to higher cost of living and it snowballs.
This point can go out the window if we assume the people are not getting the minimum wage.
Thereâs the problem of how many jobs are there available. In a time when people are struggling to find work, any job taken from a citizen or legal immigrant becomes a problem.
Thereâs the problem of taxes. Illegals do not pay taxes since they are not here on paper. This is a bit of a two fold problem as well since the ones that we know about cost tax money as well. We have to pay for the court system, food, housing and healthcare for a lot of these people. Thereâs good examples in Chicago where some of these people were put in hotel rooms with a stipend and cell phone.
This is generally more effort than is applied to the homeless population. Itâs also a leg up over legal immigrants who are generally expected to be self sufficient and contributors to the nation as a whole.
Thereâs a housing impact to consider. We are at an all time low of housing availability and more people push that problem to be worse. Itâs much easier to push that blame onto large businesses owning to many properties (thatâs a different topic) than to address a sheer lack of available houses.
I feel like I have forgotten a point while putting this together.
>Thereâs the problem of taxes. Illegals do not pay taxes since they are not here on paper.
A popular myth perpetuated by right wing media and politicians
[Undocumented immigrants quietly pay billions into Social Security and receive no benefits](https://www.marketplace.org/2019/01/28/undocumented-immigrants-quietly-pay-billions-social-security-and-receive-no/) (Marketplace)
[Adding Up the Billions in Tax Dollars Paid by Undocumented Immigrants](https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/sites/default/files/research/adding_up_the_billions_in_tax_dollars_paid_by_undocumented_immigrants.pdf) (American Immigration Council)
[Immigrantsâ taxes play an outsized role in the U.S. governmentâs fiscal health](https://www.marketplace.org/2023/04/11/immigrants-taxes-play-an-outsized-role-in-the-u-s-governments-fiscal-health/) (Marketplace)
[Immigrants pay taxes and housing costs, regardless of status](https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-immigrants-taxes-rent-vaccine-requirements-983035929946) (The AP)
>We have to pay for the court system, food, housing and healthcare for a lot of these people.
This just isn't true for almost all undocumented immigrants. Most are supported by their families and by working under the table. A handful of asylum seekers (who are not "illegal") do receive very limited support from the government. Many of them are not receiving government support but support from communities/local nonprofit organizations. In the few sensationalized cases where local cities have been overwhelmed by trying to accommodate asylum seeker families with housing, for example, this could EASILY be solved if we reformed the immigration process. In this case, only a simple change need be made - asylum seekers need to be granted provisional work permits as soon as they apply, instead of after waiting 6 months after they begin their application process. Right now, asylum seekers are not allowed to work for months while they wait for their case to be processed - which can take months to over a year. So what are poor refugees (often with young children) meant to do while they wait? Many have family in the US, it's true, but many also have no one to support them. They want to work and live a better life, so why not let them work LEGALLY?
All credible evidence Iâm aware of supports that illegal immigrants are *good* for the economy.
[Economists generally agree that the effects of immigration on the U.S. economy are broadly positive. Immigrants, whether high- or low-skilled, **legal or illegal**, are unlikely to replace native-born workers or reduce their wages over the long-term, though they may cause some short-term dislocations in labor markets. Indeed, the experience of the last few decades suggests that immigration may actually have significant long-term benefits for the native-born, pushing them into higher-paying occupations and raising the overall pace of innovation and productivity growth.](https://budgetmodel.wharton.upenn.edu/issues/2016/1/27/the-effects-of-immigration-on-the-united-states-economy)
Nobody hates illegal immigrants in the produce aisle. And conservatives LOVE illegal immigrants. As long as they don't have to pay them. That's the real reason for anti-immigrant sentiment, to scare them into working for $2/hour.
Farms are not held to the same minimum wage as any other industry. It doesnât matter if youâre legal or not you likely will not make the standard minimum wage. [this shows a break down of farm wages.](https://nationalaglawcenter.org/state-compilations/agpay/minimumwage/)
I mean maybe not folks you know but itâs pretty common here. A lot of people here would rather work than not and will even take a job that pays less as long as they can make ends meet.
If you're saying Americans do the same agricultural jobs that migrant workers so and some make want more money, that's very interesting. But so you have any source or article about this? I've never in my life heard of this.
Can't imagine why the "illegal" part is bad. [It's not like the very first immigration law has a problem or anything.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Exclusion_Act)
Who cares?
[Economists generally agree that the effects of immigration on the U.S. economy are broadly positive. Immigrants, whether high- or low-skilled, **legal or illegal**, are unlikely to replace native-born workers or reduce their wages over the long-term, though they may cause some short-term dislocations in labor markets. Indeed, the experience of the last few decades suggests that immigration may actually have significant long-term benefits for the native-born, pushing them into higher-paying occupations and raising the overall pace of innovation and productivity growth.](https://budgetmodel.wharton.upenn.edu/issues/2016/1/27/the-effects-of-immigration-on-the-united-states-economy)
Why is conflating a legal thing with an illegal thing asinine? Really? You don't see a difference?
People don't have any issues with legal immigrants in the US (except for an extreme minority of bigots), overall they're embraced. They come here and want to become Americans, they want to contribute, they want to improve the country.
If people are coming here illegally it's because they want to do the exact opposite, they're coming here to exploit, and probably coming illegally because there's something about them that we wouldn't want in our society.
lmao you fool. If you knew how incredibly difficult and complicated it was to immigrate legally, you wouldn't be saying that. It can take a DECADE or more to immigrate legally, if at all. Plus thousands and thousands of dollars in application fees, processing fees, attorney fees and more and more and more.
Many people who are POOR and people who are facing VIOLENCE/PERSECUTION don't have the TIME OR MONEY (or for that matter the expertise to navigate extremely overcomplicated immigration law) to immigrate "the right way."
Furthermore, according to US domestic and international law, asylum seekers may enter the country anywhere, any way. Politicians and the media constantly spread this lie that asylum seekers are illegal immigrants just because they didn't enter officially at a port of entry. That is false. Decades ago we decided that refugees fleeing persecution should be allowed to enter the US however they can, if they seek asylum. And being approved for asylum is difficult, so it's not like every refugee is going to be allowed to stay legally anyway.
>If people are coming here illegally it's because they want to do the exact opposite, they're coming here to exploit, and probably coming illegally because there's something about them that we wouldn't want in our society.
Finally, there is abundant research which shows immigrants (legal and undocumented) commit less crime (of all kinds) than US-born citizens and FAR LESS VIOLENT CRIME than US-born citizens.
Immigrants now as in the past just want a better life for themselves and their family. Period.
EDIT: a couple more things to add...
A large percentage of undocumented immigrants in the United States entered this country legally on a visa, and overstayed that visa, making them lose legal status and become undocumented/"illegal."
There are also many undocumented immigrants who came here with their parents as young children and are now in their 20s, 30s, 40s or older. They have pretty much spent their whole life in the US and may not even speak the language of the country they were born in.
You're right, legal and ethical are two different things... however, crossing into a country illegally is also unethical.
And I'm not a conservative, and I'm not a moron... but judging that's your response, I can tell you offer nothing to a conversation on anything important.
>Why is conflating a legal thing with an illegal thing asinine? Really? You don't see a difference?
Oh I see a difference, just not a meaningful one.
>People don't have any issues with legal immigrants in the US (except for an extreme minority of bigots), overall they're embraced. They come here and want to become Americans, they want to contribute, they want to improve the country.
Iâve already provided evidence from one of the most credentialed business schools on the planet that illegal immigrants also contribute. See my above link.
Oh hell, Iâll just post it again.
[Economists generally agree that the effects of immigration on the U.S. economy are broadly positive. Immigrants, whether high- or low-skilled, **legal or illegal**, are unlikely to replace native-born workers or reduce their wages over the long-term, though they may cause some short-term dislocations in labor markets. Indeed, the experience of the last few decades suggests that immigration may actually have significant long-term benefits for the native-born, pushing them into higher-paying occupations and raising the overall pace of innovation and productivity growth.](https://budgetmodel.wharton.upenn.edu/issues/2016/1/27/the-effects-of-immigration-on-the-united-states-economy)
>If people are coming here illegally it's because they want to do the exact opposite, they're coming here to exploit, and probably coming illegally because there's something about them that we wouldn't want in our society.
This is an assertion. Prove it. Prove that all illegal immigrants exploit and have something we donât want.
> Prove that all illegal immigrants exploit
All? yeah, not every single last one, there are some people with good intentions, but they still are jumping ahead of the people following the rules. And said rules are made harder by the sheer number of people who are just saying 'screw the rules, I want mine!'
A few thousand immigrants got sent to NYC, they have been such an economic boon that they had national guard in the subways to protect people, rampant crime in the streets, and the economic boon to NYC is only expected to cost them a mere 12 billion dollars by the end of fiscal year 2025... such a great bargain!
A single busload were sent to Martha's Vineyard, a designated Sanctuary City that welcomes all immigrants, it was the off season so every single one of them could have stayed in a vacant million+ dollar mansion without stressing the system at all, aaaaand they were deported and stuffed onto a military base in less than 24 hours.
Look at Chicago, a few immigrants get sent there, suddenly community resources are being taken away and turned into housing angering the residents who say 'what about us?' Dang racist people just don't want to be culturally enriched!
In my own city, Pre-Biden who just threw the gates open, my Studio apartment cost me $800 a month. It wasn't the best part of town, but I didn't have to dodge bullets. this was just 5 years ago. Now a studio apartment in the worst parts of town clock in at $1300, and for a great part of town the studio apartments are now topping out at $4000+ a month with the nice ones being in the 1600-2000 range for a STUDIO apartment.
I have no problem making it easier for people who follow the rules to come and enter the US legally. None at all. But much like at the grocery store, I have a great disdain for people who shove others aside and cut the line at the checkout line.
We've confiscated close to 20,000 guns coming across that border (the ones we caught) enough Fentynyl to kill every person in America dozens of times over, and apprehended over 200 people on the terrorist watch list, all under Biden's term in office. We have apprehended people from every country in the world trying to sneak across the border. How many guns, how many terrorists, how much drugs didn't we catch, and how many are going to die because of the lack of security? We know that only 73 thousand Americans died last year from Fentynyl... who care about them?
The Biden Administration has lost 85,000 immigrant children, are they dead? are they being exploited? are they being sexually trafficked? We don't know, Ain't it great? And those are just the ones we encountered and put into the system. The US is literally the easiest country to emigrate to without a college degree.
Coming here illegally means you lack protection from the law since yo are afraid to interact with the police for fear of being arrested, they can't pass a background check, so they have the worst jobs. But hey Democrats do have a looooong history of loving an easily exploited permanent underclass of humans to do all the field work and menial labor right?
But you like asking people to prove things so I challenge you, PROVE to me that not a SINGLE immigrant has committed a crime, not a single one, not a single one has driven drunk, raped someone, murdered someone, stolen anything. Every single crime committed by an illegal immigrant was preventable by them staying in their home country or going somewhere else. These ain't good numbers chief: https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/cbp-enforcement-statistics/criminal-noncitizen-statistics
Just look at the meme from the original post. Implication that illegal immigrants deserve to exploit systems supported by completely foreign entities just because they dug under a wall or jumped a fence.
I mean, I care. Also, that information is nice and all, but it doesnât hold up when you over-stress a system. That is the case with any system whether it be economic, electrical, mechanical, or cultural. You canât just add a load onto a system indefinitely without making updates to it, otherwise that system will fail.
Immigration can be good for the economy, but there most certainly is a limit on it. Thats where people have an issue. Too much immigration can harm the economy, or it could just harm the immigrants. Additionally, a lot of immigrants do not mesh with our culture, particularly ones that import their radical Islam (a lot of Muslims are great people and I welcome them, but a lot are also not good people and have shitty values).
To summarize, immigration is good when itâs kept in check. But it has not been kept in check, which can have socio-economic and cultural ramifications.
12 Billion dollars by the end of next fiscal year for a single city. Open your wallet bub. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/09/nyregion/adams-nyc-migrants-cost.html
A citation is not required, this is quite simple logic. All Iâm trying to say is you canât support a fuck ton of immigrants without consequences if you donât have the capacity to do so.
You like science according to your username. What happens when you add too much of a population to a system with finite resources and insufficent infrastructure to support that population (this could be animals, bacteria, or humans)? What happens when you add too much load to an electrical system? What happens when you add too much load to a mechanical system? The system fails.
I just think we should be wary of how we approach it and how many people we let in. You need to make a plan and build infrastructure to support it.
But youâre assuming. Provide a citation America doesnât have capacity. Provide a citation that the costs outweigh the benefits.
Youâre making assertions. Provide citations for them. People always want to argue up and down that illegal Immigration is bad but they never provide any evidence whatsoever for their claims.
>About 180,000 migrants have come to New York City since April of 2022, and about **65,000** are currently in the cityâs care. Nearly every day there is a news story or a quote from a New York politician about how this recent arrival of migrants is a drain on New Yorkâs finances.
so out of 180,000 migrants roughly 1/3 of them are being supported by the city, at the cost of 12 billion dollars. by the end of next fiscal year. 65000 extra mouths to feed, 65000 extra bodies to house, 65000 more people to pay medical expenses for, to train/educate, to protect. 65000 people that cannot stand on their own two feet and be self sufficient. 65000 people taking resources that could be used to help American citizens in need, homeless vets.
And that's just one city, Under Biden's wide open border policies as of the start of this year, 10.2 million people have entered illegally since he took office. That's more people than the population of our 10th largest state, Michigan in 3 years.
Can't imagine why the "illegal" part is bad. [It's not like the very first immigration law has a problem or anything.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Exclusion_Act)
Brings up racist law from the 1800s
Dawg I'm talking about the allotments we have a year for immigration. There are thousands if not millions of people who are here and didn't go through the proper channels and are therfore illegaly immigrating to this country. They should not be able to vote
Neat.
That law was then later revised to add Irish people. And then changed to start banning other immigrants. That one law is the foundation for our current immigration laws.
Btw, illegal immigrants only make up 3% of the population and they pay billions in taxes from their paychecks that they can't collect because they don't have a valid social security number.
Also, 0 illegal immigrants vote. Literally 0. You want to look at the people who are illegally voting, go take a look at the people who are actually being busted, the side screaming about immigrants voting. And those aren't the ones that steal their wife and adult children's ballots. It's so much fun constantly reading about children of conservative families who are forced to live with their parents and have to illegally surrender their ballots to their father, always the father, under the threat of being kicked out, or worse.
Man, where have I heard of a nation that villified an entire group of people, blaming them for all their economic and political woes even though they were less than 5% of the population?
Hey, I wonder what that nation did with their immigrants, too. Hmmmmm....
I'm saying you shouldn't be here illegally, and you are saying that, that statement is villifiying a group of people and blaming them for economic and political woes.
This isn't a one race/culture coming here illegally. The Mexican boarder is not secure, people from around the world come here through that border because they know it's not secure.
I also just want to point out if that 3% is census data I think un documented immigrants (people who are here illegally) are under reported. Yes they probably get the census in the mail, but how many actually out themselves?
I also would like to say they definitely should be paying taxes in the area they land in because one their children if born here, are citizens and 2 they are living in an area and using the roads, hospitals, schools ect they should be chiping in.
> This isn't a one race/culture coming here illegally.
And yet, if you look at every photo and video of ICE camps and such, their facilities are always filled with one race.
I live on the boarder, trust me those are cherry picked.
They segregate those they catch illegally and when they do you see a ton of African and Chinese.
Immigrants are just Americans who arrived later, they deserve every right. Illegal immigrants are criminals, otherwise they wouldnât be illegal. There is a big difference.
Illegal immigrants are demonized so they can be scared into working for less-than-slave wages. No one hates illegal immigrants in the produce aisle. And if people don't like them, they shouldn't pay them. No job, no illegal immigrants. Simple. But wait, that's not what happens. Because they DO provide value to the economy. Or they wouldn't get hired. And then they'd stop coming here. So next time you buy food that has any produce in it, just remember why it doesn't cost twice as much, and ask yourself if hating illegal immigrants is worth paying double for it.
Ok you have a point, but you are not talking about the same thing as me though. Also I never said I hate them.
My point is they donât deserve the same right because they came here illegally. If they easily get the same benefits like legal immigrants, then who will spent the effort to come legally then (through student visa, working visa, or investor visa). Might as well just come in and stay and skip the trouble all together.
You canât just ignore the law for economic value (lower produce price). Stealing also gets you economic value and quicker by the way. Why donât you go do that? Itâs reasonable to think some immigration law is unfair. People can work to change it. But before that, it stands.
Ok I totally agree with you. They choose to come here to work for very low wages but they can stay here even though illegally. Employers choose to hire them to get cheaper labor. We get cheaper stuff. Thatâs the current situation.
Now there are two scenarios:
1. We somehow find a way to stop this. Now everyone loses. But Iâm onboard because law is law.
2. We let it happen. Iâm also on board because who doesnât like cheaper stuff. But I DISAGREE to give them equal rights because they are ILLEGAL in the first place. You shouldnât get rewarded for breaking the law and itâs specifically unfair to legal immigrants who went through the trouble of legal immigration process. I donât demonize them, I just donât think giving them equal rights is legally or morally righteous.
3. Make it fucking legal. Simple as. But then we have to pay them, and that's what really scares the people in power. Losing the unlimited slave labor.
Plus, as I've pointed out before:
1) they didn't choose where they were born and
2) many of them are from countries we destroyed via illegal actions by the CIA and American corporations(think like banana cookies). 2 wrongs don't make a right, but remember, our crimes led to theirs.
But remember, everything they do to restrict or demonize illegal immigrants is really about making sure they don't have to pay them or provide any rights or benefits. It's about maximum exploitation and minimal compensation. Nothing more. If you think there's anything else going on, you're being played.
Also if you give illegal immigrants the same benefits and rights, they wouldnât tolerate low wages. Then you lose the lower produce price. You are basically arguing against yourself.
I want them to have the same benefits and rights. To me that's a feature, not a bug. They didn't choose where they were born, and many of them are from countries that the CIA and/or American corporations destroyed. Cope.
A lot changes in hundreds of years. Its not economically possible or physically possible to give every single illegal immigrant free health care and equal rights when not even every american has access to healthcare. In this post im assuming you mean illegal immigrants as if you wait and immigrate legally than you get access to the same stuff as U.S. citizens. Life isnt a cakewalk, theres no way a citizen of another country should be able to waltz on through, vote in a country other than theirs because of the right to vote, and do things like purchase firearms using the right to bare arms because "all immigrants deserve equal rights"
Can't imagine why the "illegal" part is bad. [It's not like the very first immigration law has a problem or anything.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Exclusion_Act)
Maybe we should tone it down a bit, with regards to the "immigrants" that founded this country. They weren't exactly open minded citizens and y'all make them up to be. See Thomas Jefferson among others... Calm down with the hyperbole from both sides.
Illegal immigration, IS a problem that needs solutions that help address the drainage of resources for legal immigrants and citizens. Our current situation is not ideal.
I don't see many people if any arguing against immigrants rights, so much as the illegal portion of the population, and whether you are in favor or against, until it is no longer ILLEGAL, people have a right to be bothered.
Perhaps, if most hard liberals spent more time on immigration reform, rather than pointing fingers and facepalming, this situation wouldn't be so shitty.
That statement is disingenuous. Those first immigrants didn't have healthcare, or anything else for that matter. The systems that we now have in place for social support were established, and funded, over decades by those first immigrants, who paid for them and sometimes, after their establishment, benefiting from them. Now, immigrants are arriving that have paid nothing, built nothing, established nothing, but expect to benefit from them starting on Day 1--something that was not available for those first immigrants at all. This premise is based upon a misuse, or an obfuscation, of the word 'immigrant.' There are 'immigrants,' those who arrive legally, those who wait in line, those who are self-sufficient for the most part, those who take the oath of citizenship; Then there are 'immigrants' who arrive unannounced, who jump to the head of the line, who refuse to come legally, who may very well be a burden on society, and who never bother with that oath. Americans are firmly in favor of the former, and firmly against the latter.
LEGAL immigrants are awesome and we need them and they ARE Americans. Illegal immigration needs to curbed. It wonât necessarily stop. But we CANNOT hold the door open for millions of illegal immigrants. Our country cannot sustain it. We are falling apart.
I mean there is Medicaid and Medicare. It's not free, but American citizens can access it while in most states undocumented immigrants cannot....even though undocumented immigrants are propping up American social security with billions in tax dollars they can't get back in the form of benefits.
Well to be fair they don't seem to think American citizens deserve healthcare either.
Came here to say the same. Just standard American life
Exactly what I was going to say.
Came to say the same like others it appears lol
So immigrants
In fact, the easiest way to make them angry is to ask them to be nicer to others.
Or equal rights. It was how it all started.. đ
I'm an immigrant who is now a United States citizen, and I'm grateful for being in America and helping to build this wonderful nation. That said, I received my citizenship through a long and hard process. I spent money, I learned about the country, and I will say two things. One is sad: Some Americans say we are not part of America, even though I earned the right to be here. They make me feel bad and less American. But for those who say I'm a legitimate American, I will be ready to fight against any threats, including those from domestic fascists and terrorists. I will resistâit's a right.
I am definitely in the second group. You are not less American - those tests are hard! I bet most ânatural bornâ Americans couldnât pass it, myself included. Itâs just a way to try and further invalidate your experience. Be proud of all the work you put into this! I am proud of you.
Thank you so much! This is really important and good to read and listen to. I love this country. I came all the way legally, and it was my choice. It wasn't easy to leave a place with friends, different culture, food, and language, but it was worth it. I know the country has a lot of problems right now, but believe me, it is far better than the problems where I came from. I feel blessed being here and sometimes even ashamed of how the people from my country live. For those who have nothing, the American dream is still alive. But I'm not here to be a dreamer; I'm here to help make this a better place. It's possible, it's worth it, and it should be the mindset of everyone. But those who ask for segregation, they shall not pass.
Thank you and welcome
Youâre welcome, and agreed! đ¤
As a "natural born" American and the son of a veteran I can say I probably couldn't pass one of those tests. I have mad respect for anybody who's willing to navigate the process of leaving their country and coming all the way to the states for a better life, y'all probably been through some serious shit and deserve better than a 2 ton 4th generation inbreeding result saying that you don't belong here. This country was made by immigrants, for immigrants, and that's how it should stay. (Please excuse the writing errors, I'm an idiot)
>long hard process It is long and hard because the immigrants before you have made it so. They pulled up the ladder
Yup. They didn't have to immigrate here legally, their legality was automatically handed to them. "Land of the free" has always been nothing but a false slogan meant to attract a certain group of Europeans (don't forget that Irish, Germans, Greeks, and others faced bigotry). It has never applied to everyone. Ever.
I don't think people comprehend the time, money, and TIME it takes to become a citizen. You, 100% know more about this country than a concerning amount of US born citizens. You are an American because you are an American. Plain and simple.
Youâre an American. Welcome!!
You're more American than most of us Americans
Not an immigrant myself but my grandparents on my motherâs side are. Iâll fight as hard as I have to for them and for everyone. For many, immigrating to America is the only way to ensure the future & safety of their current and future family. I donât understand what could be going through these peoples heads when they state that immigrants arenât genuine citizens & even dehumanize them.
Dehumanizing a group of people is an old nazi fascist tactic.
YOU are now an American, YOU went through the legal process, and YOU are welcome. Full stop.
Youâre a legit American and donât let others tell you youâre not. Unless theyâre indigenous, basically everyone immigrated here at some point.
If you're a legal citizen, you are an American. Welcome to the once greatest nation on Earth. Sorry about the mess. But for real, welcome and I'm glad you're here.
To be fair, this country doesn't think equal rights or health care are for its citizens also.
There was a time, not long ago, when the Italians, the Irish, the Germans, were not considered âAmericanâ enough. Then these oppressed groups assimilate and soon become the new oppressors when the next generation comes along (Korean immigrants, Mexican immigrants, etc). I wish we didnât just teach history lessons as dates to remember, but emphasize how it repeats itself if weâre not mindful.
âQuick boys, pull the ladder up!â
So we just open the borders, flood America with people that it can't support, flood the Healthcare system, and now nobody gets good healthcare.
Nobody has good health care champ
So let's make it worse I guess..?
Because commercial health care that's tied to employment and extorting everyone for every penny... that's better.
This isnt an argument against Healthcare reform, it's an argument to not get into a situation we can't handle. I don't defend our Healthcare system but it's not like we're gonna fix it by adding an unknown number of people to it.
They reduce prices by working for less money, therefore more money in the economy, therefore more money for health care, and if that happens, it's because of them so they should be allowed to partake. An I missing anything?
Them working for less does not translate to more money in the economy, that just translates to fewer people (business owners) pocketing MORE money and everyone else having less.
No, we would REALLY feel it at the grocery store if they weren't doing those jobs for that pay.
depends on how much of the price of groceries you associate with employees costs. there are other factors that effect the supply chain that all increased.
Just a friendly heads up: no immigrant to this country ever, up until the last couple of decades, got healthcare or had equal rights. Many still don't.
To be fair, a lot of those same people don't even think some citizens should get equal rights or health care.
They don't think ANYONE has the right to health care
They deserve what they contribute just like everyone else.
They are hated to get scared into working for $2/hour.
Country borders are just a holdover from colonialism. If we're going to have an immigration process, it should be as straightford, quick and easy as possible.
And the limit is?
... not up to racists like you. Simple.
Come on. That quick to pull the racist card? Can you not give a logical answer to "how many"?
How many what? How make immigrants should be let in?
I mean what's ironic? It's An American tradition to take what you can get then pull up the ladder and say you should have been up there before the ladder was pulled ;)
OPs house was made by immigrants yet won't let them stay in his house. share OP, there are a lot homeless migrants!
It would be much more efficient to provide more housing. MUCH more efficient. And many people do provide housing for refugees. You probably vote conservative, you don't get to tell people who vote for candidates that are more pro-housing subsidies that they should then just open up their whole home. Yikes.
Too early to flip-flop after just 250 years...
At least the initial immigrants were able to be processed correctly. We, for absolutely no reason, shot ourselves in the foot with our policies and refuse to process the people who want to become citizens and focus hard on kicking out the ones who don't give a rat's arse about it so they can sneak back in in a month's time.
Conservative politicians LOVE illegal immigrants. They just don't love paying them.
ILLEGAL immigrants should not get any government assistance. This is a stance that every nation should take, not just the United States.
Yes. But not free everything while Americans suffer first.
If the immigrants will get it, non-immigrants will get it first. That's just how it works.
This shit hole doesn't give rights or healthcare to its citizens and daily shoots its children in the face
A country founded upon genocide
Oversimplifying a bit too much
Lol name one country that wasnt
Greenland is one. As a country they have not had any genocide. Edit: (they were absorbed by denmark, no longer an autonomous country, I update my original comment.)
Go live there. High suicide rate and nothing to do. Good choice. Move to that place
No need, already moved to another cpuntry. You seem motivated to dunk on anyone who doesnât kiss the usaâs ass so Iâll say this: Live in the usa most pf mylife, Itâs a fascist slave driving hellhole. Moved to australia cause fuck going back. Very happy here, not going back because again, Fuck that noise. :D
Uhh, Greenland isn't a country, it's part of Denmark.
Ah good to know genocide's alright then, since it's been done by others...
Never good. But no nation has been developed or maintained without blood. You think you will find a place on this planet that has less blood shed for a greater standard of living. By all means go to that place.
Majority of South and South east Asia, Nepal, Bhutan, India, Thailand, Singapore?
Incorrect
This is such a an oversimplification of the actual issue.
The irony is OP lack of the word "illegal".
Can't imagine why the "illegal" part is bad. [It's not like the very first immigration law has a problem or anything.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Exclusion_Act)
The short is most people arenât mad about legal immigrants. Illegal immigrants however do tend to pose a lot of problems with both the economy and the perception of legal immigrants.
That's just not true. Even from a purely capitalist standpoint, immigrants are not only good but necessary to our economy. It is true that because undocumented immigrants aren't granted the same rights and protections as citizens, they are exploited by employers - paid less, forced to work under dangerous conditions, etc. If all workers were paid more fairly, had more reasonable protections, and we actually held corporations accountable for illegal actions, then everyone would be treated better, including undocumented immigrants. The bad perception of legal and undocumented immigrants is driven by politicians who use immigrants as a scapegoat because 1) decade after decade immigrants have always been the first scapegoat due to their vulnerable, exploitable status 2) these politicians don't have a good economic plan that actually benefits the average working American. So they distract from that by blaming immigrants. Plus the media profits from anti-immigrant sensationalism and is owned by right-wing fascist businessmen who support right-wing political campaigns. Right-wing outrage media gets more views.
While on paper thatâs great but in practice that doesnât appear to be completely true. Thereâs a few things currently going on that though. So for âlow paying wagesâ to not make an impact on things they have to actually be better low paying and not just set to be âa livable wageâ. So just discussing this as wages right now weâve forced wages to go higher which has lead to higher cost of living and it snowballs. This point can go out the window if we assume the people are not getting the minimum wage. Thereâs the problem of how many jobs are there available. In a time when people are struggling to find work, any job taken from a citizen or legal immigrant becomes a problem. Thereâs the problem of taxes. Illegals do not pay taxes since they are not here on paper. This is a bit of a two fold problem as well since the ones that we know about cost tax money as well. We have to pay for the court system, food, housing and healthcare for a lot of these people. Thereâs good examples in Chicago where some of these people were put in hotel rooms with a stipend and cell phone. This is generally more effort than is applied to the homeless population. Itâs also a leg up over legal immigrants who are generally expected to be self sufficient and contributors to the nation as a whole. Thereâs a housing impact to consider. We are at an all time low of housing availability and more people push that problem to be worse. Itâs much easier to push that blame onto large businesses owning to many properties (thatâs a different topic) than to address a sheer lack of available houses. I feel like I have forgotten a point while putting this together.
>Thereâs the problem of taxes. Illegals do not pay taxes since they are not here on paper. A popular myth perpetuated by right wing media and politicians [Undocumented immigrants quietly pay billions into Social Security and receive no benefits](https://www.marketplace.org/2019/01/28/undocumented-immigrants-quietly-pay-billions-social-security-and-receive-no/) (Marketplace) [Adding Up the Billions in Tax Dollars Paid by Undocumented Immigrants](https://www.americanimmigrationcouncil.org/sites/default/files/research/adding_up_the_billions_in_tax_dollars_paid_by_undocumented_immigrants.pdf) (American Immigration Council) [Immigrantsâ taxes play an outsized role in the U.S. governmentâs fiscal health](https://www.marketplace.org/2023/04/11/immigrants-taxes-play-an-outsized-role-in-the-u-s-governments-fiscal-health/) (Marketplace) [Immigrants pay taxes and housing costs, regardless of status](https://apnews.com/article/fact-check-immigrants-taxes-rent-vaccine-requirements-983035929946) (The AP) >We have to pay for the court system, food, housing and healthcare for a lot of these people. This just isn't true for almost all undocumented immigrants. Most are supported by their families and by working under the table. A handful of asylum seekers (who are not "illegal") do receive very limited support from the government. Many of them are not receiving government support but support from communities/local nonprofit organizations. In the few sensationalized cases where local cities have been overwhelmed by trying to accommodate asylum seeker families with housing, for example, this could EASILY be solved if we reformed the immigration process. In this case, only a simple change need be made - asylum seekers need to be granted provisional work permits as soon as they apply, instead of after waiting 6 months after they begin their application process. Right now, asylum seekers are not allowed to work for months while they wait for their case to be processed - which can take months to over a year. So what are poor refugees (often with young children) meant to do while they wait? Many have family in the US, it's true, but many also have no one to support them. They want to work and live a better life, so why not let them work LEGALLY?
All credible evidence Iâm aware of supports that illegal immigrants are *good* for the economy. [Economists generally agree that the effects of immigration on the U.S. economy are broadly positive. Immigrants, whether high- or low-skilled, **legal or illegal**, are unlikely to replace native-born workers or reduce their wages over the long-term, though they may cause some short-term dislocations in labor markets. Indeed, the experience of the last few decades suggests that immigration may actually have significant long-term benefits for the native-born, pushing them into higher-paying occupations and raising the overall pace of innovation and productivity growth.](https://budgetmodel.wharton.upenn.edu/issues/2016/1/27/the-effects-of-immigration-on-the-united-states-economy)
Nobody hates illegal immigrants in the produce aisle. And conservatives LOVE illegal immigrants. As long as they don't have to pay them. That's the real reason for anti-immigrant sentiment, to scare them into working for $2/hour.
Farms are not held to the same minimum wage as any other industry. It doesnât matter if youâre legal or not you likely will not make the standard minimum wage. [this shows a break down of farm wages.](https://nationalaglawcenter.org/state-compilations/agpay/minimumwage/)
Good luck getting Americans to do those jobs. AND I guarantee you, illegals still get paid less.
I mean maybe not folks you know but itâs pretty common here. A lot of people here would rather work than not and will even take a job that pays less as long as they can make ends meet.
If you're saying Americans do the same agricultural jobs that migrant workers so and some make want more money, that's very interesting. But so you have any source or article about this? I've never in my life heard of this.
You keep forgetting that word "illegal".
Can't imagine why the "illegal" part is bad. [It's not like the very first immigration law has a problem or anything.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Exclusion_Act)
Who cares? [Economists generally agree that the effects of immigration on the U.S. economy are broadly positive. Immigrants, whether high- or low-skilled, **legal or illegal**, are unlikely to replace native-born workers or reduce their wages over the long-term, though they may cause some short-term dislocations in labor markets. Indeed, the experience of the last few decades suggests that immigration may actually have significant long-term benefits for the native-born, pushing them into higher-paying occupations and raising the overall pace of innovation and productivity growth.](https://budgetmodel.wharton.upenn.edu/issues/2016/1/27/the-effects-of-immigration-on-the-united-states-economy)
Rational people care. Conflating the two is asinine.
Why?
Why is conflating a legal thing with an illegal thing asinine? Really? You don't see a difference? People don't have any issues with legal immigrants in the US (except for an extreme minority of bigots), overall they're embraced. They come here and want to become Americans, they want to contribute, they want to improve the country. If people are coming here illegally it's because they want to do the exact opposite, they're coming here to exploit, and probably coming illegally because there's something about them that we wouldn't want in our society.
lmao you fool. If you knew how incredibly difficult and complicated it was to immigrate legally, you wouldn't be saying that. It can take a DECADE or more to immigrate legally, if at all. Plus thousands and thousands of dollars in application fees, processing fees, attorney fees and more and more and more. Many people who are POOR and people who are facing VIOLENCE/PERSECUTION don't have the TIME OR MONEY (or for that matter the expertise to navigate extremely overcomplicated immigration law) to immigrate "the right way." Furthermore, according to US domestic and international law, asylum seekers may enter the country anywhere, any way. Politicians and the media constantly spread this lie that asylum seekers are illegal immigrants just because they didn't enter officially at a port of entry. That is false. Decades ago we decided that refugees fleeing persecution should be allowed to enter the US however they can, if they seek asylum. And being approved for asylum is difficult, so it's not like every refugee is going to be allowed to stay legally anyway. >If people are coming here illegally it's because they want to do the exact opposite, they're coming here to exploit, and probably coming illegally because there's something about them that we wouldn't want in our society. Finally, there is abundant research which shows immigrants (legal and undocumented) commit less crime (of all kinds) than US-born citizens and FAR LESS VIOLENT CRIME than US-born citizens. Immigrants now as in the past just want a better life for themselves and their family. Period. EDIT: a couple more things to add... A large percentage of undocumented immigrants in the United States entered this country legally on a visa, and overstayed that visa, making them lose legal status and become undocumented/"illegal." There are also many undocumented immigrants who came here with their parents as young children and are now in their 20s, 30s, 40s or older. They have pretty much spent their whole life in the US and may not even speak the language of the country they were born in.
Legal =/= Ethical. The fact that this has to be constantly explained to you conservative morons is pathetic.
You're right, legal and ethical are two different things... however, crossing into a country illegally is also unethical. And I'm not a conservative, and I'm not a moron... but judging that's your response, I can tell you offer nothing to a conversation on anything important.
>Why is conflating a legal thing with an illegal thing asinine? Really? You don't see a difference? Oh I see a difference, just not a meaningful one. >People don't have any issues with legal immigrants in the US (except for an extreme minority of bigots), overall they're embraced. They come here and want to become Americans, they want to contribute, they want to improve the country. Iâve already provided evidence from one of the most credentialed business schools on the planet that illegal immigrants also contribute. See my above link. Oh hell, Iâll just post it again. [Economists generally agree that the effects of immigration on the U.S. economy are broadly positive. Immigrants, whether high- or low-skilled, **legal or illegal**, are unlikely to replace native-born workers or reduce their wages over the long-term, though they may cause some short-term dislocations in labor markets. Indeed, the experience of the last few decades suggests that immigration may actually have significant long-term benefits for the native-born, pushing them into higher-paying occupations and raising the overall pace of innovation and productivity growth.](https://budgetmodel.wharton.upenn.edu/issues/2016/1/27/the-effects-of-immigration-on-the-united-states-economy) >If people are coming here illegally it's because they want to do the exact opposite, they're coming here to exploit, and probably coming illegally because there's something about them that we wouldn't want in our society. This is an assertion. Prove it. Prove that all illegal immigrants exploit and have something we donât want.
> Prove that all illegal immigrants exploit All? yeah, not every single last one, there are some people with good intentions, but they still are jumping ahead of the people following the rules. And said rules are made harder by the sheer number of people who are just saying 'screw the rules, I want mine!' A few thousand immigrants got sent to NYC, they have been such an economic boon that they had national guard in the subways to protect people, rampant crime in the streets, and the economic boon to NYC is only expected to cost them a mere 12 billion dollars by the end of fiscal year 2025... such a great bargain! A single busload were sent to Martha's Vineyard, a designated Sanctuary City that welcomes all immigrants, it was the off season so every single one of them could have stayed in a vacant million+ dollar mansion without stressing the system at all, aaaaand they were deported and stuffed onto a military base in less than 24 hours. Look at Chicago, a few immigrants get sent there, suddenly community resources are being taken away and turned into housing angering the residents who say 'what about us?' Dang racist people just don't want to be culturally enriched! In my own city, Pre-Biden who just threw the gates open, my Studio apartment cost me $800 a month. It wasn't the best part of town, but I didn't have to dodge bullets. this was just 5 years ago. Now a studio apartment in the worst parts of town clock in at $1300, and for a great part of town the studio apartments are now topping out at $4000+ a month with the nice ones being in the 1600-2000 range for a STUDIO apartment. I have no problem making it easier for people who follow the rules to come and enter the US legally. None at all. But much like at the grocery store, I have a great disdain for people who shove others aside and cut the line at the checkout line. We've confiscated close to 20,000 guns coming across that border (the ones we caught) enough Fentynyl to kill every person in America dozens of times over, and apprehended over 200 people on the terrorist watch list, all under Biden's term in office. We have apprehended people from every country in the world trying to sneak across the border. How many guns, how many terrorists, how much drugs didn't we catch, and how many are going to die because of the lack of security? We know that only 73 thousand Americans died last year from Fentynyl... who care about them? The Biden Administration has lost 85,000 immigrant children, are they dead? are they being exploited? are they being sexually trafficked? We don't know, Ain't it great? And those are just the ones we encountered and put into the system. The US is literally the easiest country to emigrate to without a college degree. Coming here illegally means you lack protection from the law since yo are afraid to interact with the police for fear of being arrested, they can't pass a background check, so they have the worst jobs. But hey Democrats do have a looooong history of loving an easily exploited permanent underclass of humans to do all the field work and menial labor right? But you like asking people to prove things so I challenge you, PROVE to me that not a SINGLE immigrant has committed a crime, not a single one, not a single one has driven drunk, raped someone, murdered someone, stolen anything. Every single crime committed by an illegal immigrant was preventable by them staying in their home country or going somewhere else. These ain't good numbers chief: https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/cbp-enforcement-statistics/criminal-noncitizen-statistics
Just look at the meme from the original post. Implication that illegal immigrants deserve to exploit systems supported by completely foreign entities just because they dug under a wall or jumped a fence.
Well yeah, ignoring the simplest of laws always puts your single-minded argument straight on level ground.
Arguing that a thing is bad simply because it is illegal is the most single-minded position I can think of.
I mean, I care. Also, that information is nice and all, but it doesnât hold up when you over-stress a system. That is the case with any system whether it be economic, electrical, mechanical, or cultural. You canât just add a load onto a system indefinitely without making updates to it, otherwise that system will fail. Immigration can be good for the economy, but there most certainly is a limit on it. Thats where people have an issue. Too much immigration can harm the economy, or it could just harm the immigrants. Additionally, a lot of immigrants do not mesh with our culture, particularly ones that import their radical Islam (a lot of Muslims are great people and I welcome them, but a lot are also not good people and have shitty values). To summarize, immigration is good when itâs kept in check. But it has not been kept in check, which can have socio-economic and cultural ramifications.
[citation needed]
12 Billion dollars by the end of next fiscal year for a single city. Open your wallet bub. https://www.nytimes.com/2023/08/09/nyregion/adams-nyc-migrants-cost.html
A citation is not required, this is quite simple logic. All Iâm trying to say is you canât support a fuck ton of immigrants without consequences if you donât have the capacity to do so. You like science according to your username. What happens when you add too much of a population to a system with finite resources and insufficent infrastructure to support that population (this could be animals, bacteria, or humans)? What happens when you add too much load to an electrical system? What happens when you add too much load to a mechanical system? The system fails. I just think we should be wary of how we approach it and how many people we let in. You need to make a plan and build infrastructure to support it.
But youâre assuming. Provide a citation America doesnât have capacity. Provide a citation that the costs outweigh the benefits. Youâre making assertions. Provide citations for them. People always want to argue up and down that illegal Immigration is bad but they never provide any evidence whatsoever for their claims.
>About 180,000 migrants have come to New York City since April of 2022, and about **65,000** are currently in the cityâs care. Nearly every day there is a news story or a quote from a New York politician about how this recent arrival of migrants is a drain on New Yorkâs finances. so out of 180,000 migrants roughly 1/3 of them are being supported by the city, at the cost of 12 billion dollars. by the end of next fiscal year. 65000 extra mouths to feed, 65000 extra bodies to house, 65000 more people to pay medical expenses for, to train/educate, to protect. 65000 people that cannot stand on their own two feet and be self sufficient. 65000 people taking resources that could be used to help American citizens in need, homeless vets. And that's just one city, Under Biden's wide open border policies as of the start of this year, 10.2 million people have entered illegally since he took office. That's more people than the population of our 10th largest state, Michigan in 3 years.
You are lumping in illegal immigration with legal
Can't imagine why the "illegal" part is bad. [It's not like the very first immigration law has a problem or anything.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Exclusion_Act)
Brings up racist law from the 1800s Dawg I'm talking about the allotments we have a year for immigration. There are thousands if not millions of people who are here and didn't go through the proper channels and are therfore illegaly immigrating to this country. They should not be able to vote
Neat. That law was then later revised to add Irish people. And then changed to start banning other immigrants. That one law is the foundation for our current immigration laws. Btw, illegal immigrants only make up 3% of the population and they pay billions in taxes from their paychecks that they can't collect because they don't have a valid social security number. Also, 0 illegal immigrants vote. Literally 0. You want to look at the people who are illegally voting, go take a look at the people who are actually being busted, the side screaming about immigrants voting. And those aren't the ones that steal their wife and adult children's ballots. It's so much fun constantly reading about children of conservative families who are forced to live with their parents and have to illegally surrender their ballots to their father, always the father, under the threat of being kicked out, or worse.
So 9,999,700. That's 300 shy of 10 million people who have immigrated here illegally. Shouldn't we ve cracking down on this ?
Man, where have I heard of a nation that villified an entire group of people, blaming them for all their economic and political woes even though they were less than 5% of the population? Hey, I wonder what that nation did with their immigrants, too. Hmmmmm....
I'm saying you shouldn't be here illegally, and you are saying that, that statement is villifiying a group of people and blaming them for economic and political woes. This isn't a one race/culture coming here illegally. The Mexican boarder is not secure, people from around the world come here through that border because they know it's not secure. I also just want to point out if that 3% is census data I think un documented immigrants (people who are here illegally) are under reported. Yes they probably get the census in the mail, but how many actually out themselves? I also would like to say they definitely should be paying taxes in the area they land in because one their children if born here, are citizens and 2 they are living in an area and using the roads, hospitals, schools ect they should be chiping in.
> This isn't a one race/culture coming here illegally. And yet, if you look at every photo and video of ICE camps and such, their facilities are always filled with one race.
I live on the boarder, trust me those are cherry picked. They segregate those they catch illegally and when they do you see a ton of African and Chinese.
Legal immigrant yes, illegal, no.
Then don't buy food that has any produce in it. Ever.
Immigrants are just Americans who arrived later, they deserve every right. Illegal immigrants are criminals, otherwise they wouldnât be illegal. There is a big difference.
Illegal immigrants are demonized so they can be scared into working for less-than-slave wages. No one hates illegal immigrants in the produce aisle. And if people don't like them, they shouldn't pay them. No job, no illegal immigrants. Simple. But wait, that's not what happens. Because they DO provide value to the economy. Or they wouldn't get hired. And then they'd stop coming here. So next time you buy food that has any produce in it, just remember why it doesn't cost twice as much, and ask yourself if hating illegal immigrants is worth paying double for it.
Ok you have a point, but you are not talking about the same thing as me though. Also I never said I hate them. My point is they donât deserve the same right because they came here illegally. If they easily get the same benefits like legal immigrants, then who will spent the effort to come legally then (through student visa, working visa, or investor visa). Might as well just come in and stay and skip the trouble all together. You canât just ignore the law for economic value (lower produce price). Stealing also gets you economic value and quicker by the way. Why donât you go do that? Itâs reasonable to think some immigration law is unfair. People can work to change it. But before that, it stands.
Again, all you have to do is get employers not to hire them. No demand, no supply. Problem solved. And yet... This doesn't happen.
Ok I totally agree with you. They choose to come here to work for very low wages but they can stay here even though illegally. Employers choose to hire them to get cheaper labor. We get cheaper stuff. Thatâs the current situation. Now there are two scenarios: 1. We somehow find a way to stop this. Now everyone loses. But Iâm onboard because law is law. 2. We let it happen. Iâm also on board because who doesnât like cheaper stuff. But I DISAGREE to give them equal rights because they are ILLEGAL in the first place. You shouldnât get rewarded for breaking the law and itâs specifically unfair to legal immigrants who went through the trouble of legal immigration process. I donât demonize them, I just donât think giving them equal rights is legally or morally righteous.
3. Make it fucking legal. Simple as. But then we have to pay them, and that's what really scares the people in power. Losing the unlimited slave labor. Plus, as I've pointed out before: 1) they didn't choose where they were born and 2) many of them are from countries we destroyed via illegal actions by the CIA and American corporations(think like banana cookies). 2 wrongs don't make a right, but remember, our crimes led to theirs. But remember, everything they do to restrict or demonize illegal immigrants is really about making sure they don't have to pay them or provide any rights or benefits. It's about maximum exploitation and minimal compensation. Nothing more. If you think there's anything else going on, you're being played.
Also if you give illegal immigrants the same benefits and rights, they wouldnât tolerate low wages. Then you lose the lower produce price. You are basically arguing against yourself.
I want them to have the same benefits and rights. To me that's a feature, not a bug. They didn't choose where they were born, and many of them are from countries that the CIA and/or American corporations destroyed. Cope.
Not those immigrants but the other ones are okay
Is that why y'all were screaming "go back to your own country" to legal Asian people during Covid? đ¤
A lot changes in hundreds of years. Its not economically possible or physically possible to give every single illegal immigrant free health care and equal rights when not even every american has access to healthcare. In this post im assuming you mean illegal immigrants as if you wait and immigrate legally than you get access to the same stuff as U.S. citizens. Life isnt a cakewalk, theres no way a citizen of another country should be able to waltz on through, vote in a country other than theirs because of the right to vote, and do things like purchase firearms using the right to bare arms because "all immigrants deserve equal rights"
We all deserve healthcare. America's healthcare isn't good
So are immigrants colonizing the west?
Legal immigrants, yes. Illegal immigrants, no.
Difference between legal and illegal immigrants. Quit trying to conflate the two.
Can't imagine why the "illegal" part is bad. [It's not like the very first immigration law has a problem or anything.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinese_Exclusion_Act)
The CHUDS voting this way should be deported
there are a lot of abandoned towns in siberia............
And they've already told us they'd vote Putin over Biden.
yep!
Who's going to shoulder the cost?
This op must be trolling.
Maybe we should tone it down a bit, with regards to the "immigrants" that founded this country. They weren't exactly open minded citizens and y'all make them up to be. See Thomas Jefferson among others... Calm down with the hyperbole from both sides. Illegal immigration, IS a problem that needs solutions that help address the drainage of resources for legal immigrants and citizens. Our current situation is not ideal. I don't see many people if any arguing against immigrants rights, so much as the illegal portion of the population, and whether you are in favor or against, until it is no longer ILLEGAL, people have a right to be bothered. Perhaps, if most hard liberals spent more time on immigration reform, rather than pointing fingers and facepalming, this situation wouldn't be so shitty.
That statement is disingenuous. Those first immigrants didn't have healthcare, or anything else for that matter. The systems that we now have in place for social support were established, and funded, over decades by those first immigrants, who paid for them and sometimes, after their establishment, benefiting from them. Now, immigrants are arriving that have paid nothing, built nothing, established nothing, but expect to benefit from them starting on Day 1--something that was not available for those first immigrants at all. This premise is based upon a misuse, or an obfuscation, of the word 'immigrant.' There are 'immigrants,' those who arrive legally, those who wait in line, those who are self-sufficient for the most part, those who take the oath of citizenship; Then there are 'immigrants' who arrive unannounced, who jump to the head of the line, who refuse to come legally, who may very well be a burden on society, and who never bother with that oath. Americans are firmly in favor of the former, and firmly against the latter.
An uneducated person won't ever know they descended from immigrants
*Psst...* It's not immigration, it's the color of the immigrants they don't like.
I think it's more accurate to say we were founded by settlers lmao
LEGAL immigrants are awesome and we need them and they ARE Americans. Illegal immigration needs to curbed. It wonât necessarily stop. But we CANNOT hold the door open for millions of illegal immigrants. Our country cannot sustain it. We are falling apart.
**Or** people just coming to this country, telling Americans to leave if they donât like what politicians are doing.
That's some sh*tty logic
Healthcare and equal rights? American citizens don't even have that, but yeah let's give it to the immigrants why not.
I mean there is Medicaid and Medicare. It's not free, but American citizens can access it while in most states undocumented immigrants cannot....even though undocumented immigrants are propping up American social security with billions in tax dollars they can't get back in the form of benefits.
The country wasn't founded by immigrants, it was taken by immigrants you muppet.