And my question is does the Trans population support things of these sorts? They're not dumb and can arguably understand the biological advantage better than any.
Almost every trans individual I've met IRL was just a regular person wanting to understand themselves and be treated as a person.
The ones I've met online have been... special.
Along with the manufactured consensus, another thing that bothers me is that in socialized education (kindergartens through colleges), we don't teach people how to think we teach them what to think. Opposing viewpoints are not allowed, much less taught and studied, to allow a student to perform their own dialectic. Further driving home to everyone watching and themselves "don't think for yourself, it's bad for social acceptance.".
Edit:spelling, grammar.
It absolutely is the trans people. They are some of the most vehement campaigners here on Reddit, anytime any criticism of this comes up, there are always trans/non-binary folk here just frothing at the mouth hoping to call someone a nazi for not agreeing with the trans in sports issue. Look at any front page post from a year ago. The landscape has now changed regarding this issue because of it's relative prevalence, since everyone was told it was ridiculous that it would ever happen, yet here we are (hence the top comment being a liberal saying they think this is a bad idea).
I'm an "ally" in a sense that I just live and let live, and congratulate them if they get what makes them happy.
But I say one bad thing about the new women's league champion of swimming, and suddenly everyone treats me like I want to kill all T's off the LGBT.
This.
I've worked with a guy in transition.
When we met he was a few years into becoming a man.
Back then we did not have direct interaction, so my first impression was he was a 'guy acting gay, but wasn't sure of it'
After a year we got a project together, his hormone therapy had evolves, and I only then found out he used to be a she, but always a manly girl, really born into the wrong body.
He did not have a problem talking about it, and was/is a great guy.
The process took over 10 years, and now he's just a guy .. if you don't know his past, you won't even realize the work he had to do.
For me I still see some female things (like concentration on tasks, Intuition and more emotional viewpoints) which are great in our projects together.
Best of the two worlds, i envy his dedicated ethics, because I'm more "what does this button do" kind of guy
I worked with a FTM person too and unfortunately it caused a lot of issues because we were in customer service.
So I'd call him Steve... but he looked exactly like a lady. Big boobs, long hair, long lashes, nails, etc. Like, your stereotypical girl-girl. But I wanted to be respectful... until I got a complaint from a customer to my boss saying I was harassing him because I kept calling her... him.
So yeah, that was fun lmao. Turns out she was just a she looking for attention as she later told us, and it really soured everyone's opinion at the workplace, but I don't regret it. I treated that person like an individual and I'd do it again.
I met a good friend at a week long training event, we just chilled and worked together due to similar interests. He eventually tells me he is trans, I would have never know as I wasn't picking up anything different. Just a dude.
> just a regular person
Yeah, I have to constantly point out on reddit that even a significant amount of trans people don't subscribe to gender ideology. You'll have no trouble finding people who say 'I'm a man, but I prefer to live as a woman'.
I have no patience for 'allies' that claim to speak for not just all trans people but *the entire concept of trans people* and pretend that everyone is on the same page because their position is somehow undeniably correct.
I don't doubt that those people exist, but I know several trans people and not one of them would call their gender identity a "preference". The trans people I know just want to be acknowledged and accepted as a member of the gender that matches their identity. Like everyone does. Only, it's not the gender that was assigned to them at birth.
The internet brings out the worst of people of all ages, genders, sexualities, political positions, religions etc. Not that there arent pieces of shit in real life, the internet just gives em the freedom to be even worse.
Likewise. The crazy trans movement is definitely there, but all the trans people I continue relations with are just ordinary people and their transness is very much about them, not something they project onto everything around them. I have met a couple of the psycho types in person before, but suffice it to say I put as much distance between myself and them as quickly as possible.
That begs the question. Are the online ones just regular people that become this online mess? Or are these onlinees like that IRL?
Because both of those can be true and god help is if It is
It’s going to be interesting to watch develop. I think it is a unique issues that needs to be addressed.
I just don’t like that this (and bathrooms) are used so often by the boomers in my life as red herring arguments for the whole topic of trans rights.
Talking about bathrooms I like the idea that 2kliksphilip had with his bathroom video, without mentioning trans and non binary or even considering that aspect he proposed the idea of non segregated bathrooms (segregation refers to separation in general not just ethnicity) so people would have one big bathroom with stalls and a big stall like part with a big enough divider for a bunch of urinals.
I’ve been in those kinds of bathrooms. And change rooms where the lockers are all one unisex room and everyone uses their own small fully walled in stall.
In my experience, no they dont understand. I left a comment on a youtube video of two doctors discussing this issue, and its safe to say it was flooded with people giving luke warm arguments as to why male athletes who transition should be able to compete in cis women sports. Not one of them would even acknowledge the biological advantages that comes from male puberty - not even the doctor advocating for it in the video would acknowledge it either.
Nuanced question. Not black and white. Should someone who starts transitioning today be able to compete tomorrow - no.
Should they be able to 10 years from now - probably. Other people have competed in the Olympics post transition and didn’t medal.
Like any group, they're not a monolith. I've seen/heard trans people be both supportive of Lia and other trans athletes, but also those who see it as a problem.
They are propably very divided on it, just like everyone else. I worked on a medical experiment on trans people once, while this situation was ongoing, and talked to some of them while chatting between tests. Everyone I talked to thought this was rediculous. But I don't know if that was representative.
Honestly I feel like the American online lgbtq community is the most toxic shit ever.
We have quite a lot of lgbtq and kathoey here in Thailand and I have never ever seen anything that’s even remotely close to the discourse I see on Reddit and twitter. It’s disgusting
This, the hormones for kids, teachers in some places being allowed to hide their conversations about lgbtq issues with students from their parents.
And Governments arguing for the power to take away children from parents if they refuse to put them on hormone therapy when adviced to do so by schools:
Are the death sentences of this movement.
I wandered into some trans sub and it had a teacher in it asking for advice on how to crack an “egg” in her class. The only indication that the child in her class was trans was that she wore hoodies and didn’t seem very girlie. Like how about you just teach the child Algebra, Candace?
Because the core idea behind "transgender" is that your behaviour determines your gender.
Sweaters aren't girly, so the girl must be a boy on the inside. Sexism all the way down.
An oversized hoodie and baggy jeans was like the unofficial uniform of me and all my Latino friends in junior high school😂 This teacher would have tried to turn us into some trans cult with her line of thinking lol
And you're lying.
They want to protect kids. Not make them trans. No state and no organisation has EVER suggested forcing kids to transition or even making it illegal for parents to know.
They are making it so kids can talk about things their parents would beat them for. That's it. There's literally nothing more to it.
Also, the specific phrasing of "making it illegal for parents to know" sounds really absurd. Thought crime? Like, if you learn that your kid is trans, you go in prison? Please quote the law so we can all see how big of lie that is.
Needs more teeth to keep the predators away. Charge them with child abuse bc is it. Teachers aren’t psychologists or mental health experts. Their job is core learning. Nothing more. Who you want to identify as or what gender you’re sexually attracted to has no place in a classroom. Horror show.
Yeah it's a tough voting world. I feel like I have to choose between oppressing minorities or giving the government the ability to take away my kid for piss poor reasons. There is no in-between.
I know a couple of trans people very well and work with another one. Lovely people *who are otherwise well rounded individuals* that just happen to have their brain and genital genders mixed up. I'll support them 100%.
But there are also the activist trans, the mental health issue "trans" the look at me I'll do anything for attention trans and the most unfortunate the "it's my social group at school" trans.
And the bullshit part is that I'm supposed to put up with the latter otherwise I'm being labeled as a hater of the former. And that's absolutely not true.
I see that a lot in mental health. On the phone at times, people have confused me for a woman due to my voice pitch. Doesn't bother me I just correct it or I dont. But we actually have to walk on egg shells with trans patients in making sure we get everything gender related correct. Because if you make an incorrect assumption some complain and lose it.
That category is the male dominated ‘open’, women are welcome to compete in all open categories of every physical sport, it’s just female biology doesn’t compare, case in point when the Williams sisters played against like the rank 200th male tennis player and he smoked them
You don’t have an actual unified cause, and thats by design. The trans community is being exploited for financial and political reasons and I can’t comprehend why more of them aren’t speaking out against it.
I have been for years. I just get called transphobic for it so I gave up. The modern trans movement has already cost me my surgeries (got denied because they operated on someone who didn't have gender dysphoria so they made it harder to get approved for surgeries and well, I legally smoke pot to help with my anxiety and ADHD so I got rejected) so at this point I'm just gonna watch the whole thing burn down and laugh at all the actual trans people who mindlessly went along with a harmful ideology that would so obviously harm us. Can't stop the probable worst from happening so I might as well enjoy saying "I told you so".
They did for some sports and complaints were lodged that it's not very inclusive if they are separated to their own division, and therefore not seen as real men or women so it isn't good enough. With radicals claiming separate divisions are in fact transphobic.
You can't win, so there's no point trying.
Yeah, being seen and recognized as the gender they identify with is generally priority numero uno. But the biological advantages are undeniable, so it becomes a catch 22.
Yes, and let them choose the fight themselves.
Do they want their 'origin' gender, or the trans?
I bet no one will take the trans, because their going to lose even there.
Keep the field level, we have had to many doping scandals in the past, this is no different
>Yes, and let them choose the fight themselves. Do they want their 'origin' gender, or the trans?
And what about regular women? Do they not get a choice not to fight against males?
That choice is already there.
If enough of them say this is the line, we don't compete the sport will eventually make the choice.
But that is what I have been saying, the most of them are more afraid of being cancelled then being right
Exactly. It’s ok to accept their decision, lifestyle and treat trans people with respect but there is still biology and science involved.
I feel like it’s not the participation in the event that offends, it’s the recognition and ranking of outcome that gets people pissed.
It's because they're lying to you
https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/22/us/lia-thomas-transgender-swimmer-ivy-league/index.html
>As a freshman, Thomas set a time of 8 minutes and 57.55 seconds in the 1,000-yard freestyle, the 6th-fastest men’s time in the country. Her times in the 500-yard freestyle and the 1,650-yard freestyle were among the top 100 in the country. The next year, Thomas took second place at the 2019 Ivy League championships in the men’s 500-yard, 1,000-yard and 1,650-yard freestyle, shaving seconds off her earlier times.
>She started on hormone replacement therapy in May 2019 and came out as trans that fall, yet she still had to compete on the men’s team. It was awkward and uncomfortable, she said, and her speed suffered as her muscles weakened from the hormone therapy.
https://www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/news/a-look-at-the-numbers-and-times-no-denying-the-advantages-of-lia-thomas/
>During the last season Thomas competed as a member of the Penn men’s team, which was 2018-19, she ranked 554th in the 200 freestyle, 65th in the 500 freestyle and 32nd in the 1650 freestyle.
>In her final meet, Thomas finaled in three events at the NCAA Championships, highlighted by a victory in the 500 freestyle. She also finished fifth in the 200 freestyle and was eighth in the 100 freestyle. Although she didn’t contest the event at the NCAA Champs, Thomas had one of the country’s top times in the 1650 freestyle.
Does that really sound like number 1 in the country to you?
This meme, and the 'news' that it's parroting, is misleading at best, propaganda at worst, and fools like you are falling for it
Yep. Take one for the team of progress (overall trans acceptance) and don’t push to compete in womans sports if you’ve gone through male puberty. Dick move, pun intended
Love to all the trans peeps 🏳️🌈, you are awesome
I’m with you there. People need to feel confident and safe to be themselves… not to get an edge in sports.
That being said, this isn’t a “funny meme” it more of a “sociopolitical complaint meme.”
This, and a lot of other "trans woman wins female sports" are fake though, she never won first place and also she won 6th place when she was still assigned male
Given that it's a meme and doesn't reference a source for these rankings it's a little hard to be sure I'm looking at the same thing, so take this with a pinch of salt.
Based on the "highlights" section of Lia's swimcloud (https://www.swimcloud.com/swimmer/314430/) I suspect that these rankings are being displayed in a manipulative way to foment outrage. What stands out to me is that in 2019 (pre-transition / competing against men) she was 2nd in the Ivy League Championships for 500, 1000, and 1650 freestyle, followed by two years of pandemic / no data, and then in 2022 she wins first in the Ivy League Championships for 100, 200, and 500 freestyle. To me that's a very different picture than the one that the OP is trying to convey.
And once again, people are going to ignore this information because they "feel" there's something unfair happening. Because the narrative that Lia Thomas found a cheap hack to get a competitive advantage is so much more compelling and useful to dishonest political actors.
She went from a promising silver medal male athlete to very briefly taking the first spot on the podium in women's events at the cost of having her achievements forever attacked and put into question because of the trans controversy. You don't do that to advance your swimming career. You only do that if you legitimately want to live as a woman. A decision she will forever be shamed for even by self-proclaimed "bleeding heart liberals". The way her character has been assassinated is sickening.
>In March 2022, Thomas became the first openly transgender athlete to win an NCAA Division I national championship in any sport after winning the women's 500-yard freestyle with a time of 4:33.24; Olympic silver medalist Emma Weyant was second with a time 1.75 seconds behind Thomas.
Don't hate the player hate the game. Read a story about some dude who was having issues getting custody of his kid after a divorce. Mothers tend to get all the rights in their country. Dude went in, changed his gender and got access to his kid as the rightful mother. I mean her kid. And by dude I mean dudette went in....
This makes it sound like you can just waltz into the DMV and ask for your gender to be reassigned rather than the years, hormone therapy, surgeries, documentation, and hassle of the reality.
Yup in many countries you can just waltz in. That case was European country I believe. Maybe Spain. But another one from a while back. Some UK rapper went in to records office change his gender to be a woman. Went to compete in a women's weightlifting competition. Broke all records. Went back and then de-transitioned.
he did not do that, he posted a video of himself dead lifting 238 kg with a statement saying he had broken the British women's deadlift record while "identifying as a woman". Udezue stated that he published the video to criticize arguments that support allowing transgender women to compete in women's sports, which he believes are flawed.
allowing this is the Wikipedia article this was taken from: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zuby](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zuby)
They did.... once, it was a Female to male trans boxer, stepped in to a ring with a male boxer, it was such a one sided fight that they had to cut the live feed of the match, the trans guy got knocked the fuck out 21 seconds in
EDIT : Ok getting tired of people being unable to read... so the guy im responding too, said, you dont see trans people going in to "men's league", i respond with "They did....once," then the sentence changes to *Transgender boxer* Patricio Manuel getting knocked the fuck out, they did, and haven't fought since ( as far as i know).
You are correct, they did go 3-1, but as far as i know, they haven't gone in to the ring since due to a shoulder injury (but thats as far as have seen it
Don't you wonder why all speed/force trans competers are male to female, and competing in female competition ?
It's not very often the F to M route and competing.
It is the modern(woke) cheating
Not true. Texas makes athletes compete with their birth gender so there is trans boy whomping on girls in wrestling because he isn’t allowed to compete with boys.
Lmao. I think there is also opposite. I am pretty sure there was some trans woman in ufc and she literally broke someone's skull. It is crazy that there is even debate about it.
Because most people are afraid to be seen as bigots, and simultaneously too lazy or uninterested to actually do any research on the topic.
I’m trans and it’s obviously wrong and unfair. Lia Thomas went through male puberty and anyone with eyes can see it. It gives her a massive advantage.
THANK you! SOMEONE here understands to not take a fucking reddit meme at face value. The only time people pay attention to is the time Lia won 1st in a single race in a competition. She also got something like 8th in another race IN THAT SAME COMPETITION!!
For some more context, in the 500-yard freestyle(one of her best races) she swam a 4:18 which is about 12 seconds off the men's American record. After transitioning her best time was about 15 seconds slower which is 9 seconds off the women's American record. Taking general performance variation into account, this doesn't seem particularly unfair to me...
Oddly just an hour ago I was rethinking my stance on the issue, realizing that assuming an advantage isn't the default unless advantage has been shown, which it hasn't.
This isn’t a relevant argument though. It’s specific rather than generally applicable. The real point is: should we make sports mixed. No ofc. There. Wouldn’t be any women left getting places on teams because professional male athletes are so so far ahead.
I’ve heard a few feminists and at least two trans people I’ve know that said the could at least see why trans people might be prevented from professional sports
24 hour news wants you to believe this, but it’s not the case. Most people are intelligent and can have nuanced opinions - it’s not all or nothing. I would argue most feminists/lgbtq people believe both “we need to support trans people” and “people who have gone through male puberty shouldn’t participate in women’s sports”.
Hey now…don’t lump the entire LGBT community into this. I’m gay and while I believe that trans people deserve respect, the whole sports debate is a valid argument. I don’t necessarily believe it has to be legislated, and I REALLY doubt someone would undergo the process to change who they are just to win a medal or two, but biology, for better or worse, dictates that those with XY chromosomes will have an edge over those with XX chromosomes and so offers an unfair advantage. Until the playing field is leveled, if you’re XY, you stay with XY.
I know it’s a meme and memes are rarely factual but before transition during her freshman year at penn she was ranked in the top 100 nationally in multiple events and ranked 6th nationally in the 500 free after transitioning she only got faster in one event and that is because she started focusing more on sprint swimming that event is the 50 free the other thing I don’t understand why people are outraged about this is if she had such an unfair advantage and was so much better than every other women then why does she have zero NCAA records.
This is so disingenuous. She was a top male swimmer *until* she started HRT. Her ranking only dropped when she was on hormone therapy but still competing against cis men.
I’ve seen this a bunch of times, and I knew it couldn’t be that cut and dry. The 462nd was in one event. She’s lost to cis women, numerous times, the big race she won that got everyone upset, she won by 1.75secs. And was not a record, and had the 6th fastest time for UPenn men’s team.
I don’t know enough to say whether trans women should be able to compete, but I do know misinformation is fucked up. And you’re a piece of shit if this is how you think we should decide who can and can’t play in a sport. It’s gross, and you should do the bare minimum and not get you info from a meme.
An MtF trans woman who's on HRT does not have physical advantages. Estrogen hormone treatment breaks down muscle tissue in the body, not to mention that you need testosterone blockers for it to take effect. Which means that the body completely stops producing testosterone.
If a trans woman is on HRT, she should be allowed to compete against other women. If not on HRT, that's a different story.
With all that said, I'm so tired of hearing about how it's "unfair" for trans women to compete against other women.
Source: Me. I'm a trans woman undergoing HRT.
Someone born with female reproductive organs and biological structures. And some seriously mentally ill individuals will alter that. Best to let them do what they want with their bodies and stay far far away.
How is men dominating women’s sports right wing? It’s a simple concept, men will dominate women’s sports if they’re allowed to compete in women’s sports. It’s why men and women compete separately in the first place.
This meme is a crock of shit
https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/22/us/lia-thomas-transgender-swimmer-ivy-league/index.html
>As a freshman, Thomas set a time of 8 minutes and 57.55 seconds in the 1,000-yard freestyle, the 6th-fastest men’s time in the country. Her times in the 500-yard freestyle and the 1,650-yard freestyle were among the top 100 in the country. The next year, Thomas took second place at the 2019 Ivy League championships in the men’s 500-yard, 1,000-yard and 1,650-yard freestyle, shaving seconds off her earlier times.
>She started on hormone replacement therapy in May 2019 and came out as trans that fall, yet she still had to compete on the men’s team. It was awkward and uncomfortable, she said, and her speed suffered as her muscles weakened from the hormone therapy.
https://www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/news/a-look-at-the-numbers-and-times-no-denying-the-advantages-of-lia-thomas/
>During the last season Thomas competed as a member of the Penn men’s team, which was 2018-19, she ranked 554th in the 200 freestyle, 65th in the 500 freestyle and 32nd in the 1650 freestyle.
>In her final meet, Thomas finaled in three events at the NCAA Championships, highlighted by a victory in the 500 freestyle. She also finished fifth in the 200 freestyle and was eighth in the 100 freestyle. Although she didn’t contest the event at the NCAA Champs, Thomas had one of the country’s top times in the 1650 freestyle.
TLDR: She was **number 2** in **3** races at the Men's Ivy League championship as a sophomore. At the 2022 Women's NCAA championship, she won a single race, and in her others placed 5th and 8th.
If trans people are competing, then sex needs to stop being the qualifying factor in how they compete. If there will be 6’3 women and 5’4 men, then we need a different way to classify sports. Stop putting people in classes determined by their genitalia, and take in to consideration people’s height and weight, just like they do in boxing. It’s such an easy fix, but it’s much too much fun for people in power to watch us rip each other apart over this issue rather than fix it.
Imagine being a top class swimmer on a women’s team. You work hard, you train to be the best you can be, and swimming is life. Then this fucking asshat is allowed to to jump in—handily owning everyone by seconds and breaking women’s records across the board. Like what the fuck is wrong with the folks in charge here? It’s just so stupid to me.
As a bleeding heart liberal who respects and understands the trans issue, I always thought this was fucking stupid and this hurts the cause.
And my question is does the Trans population support things of these sorts? They're not dumb and can arguably understand the biological advantage better than any.
Almost every trans individual I've met IRL was just a regular person wanting to understand themselves and be treated as a person. The ones I've met online have been... special.
It’s almost never trans people. It’s the “allies.”
Nothing more annoying than narcissists who just join whatever cause enables them to listen to their own voice
And point their finger at others so they can feel better about themselves
The amount of dumbass social justice virtue signaling I see online unnerves me.
Along with the manufactured consensus, another thing that bothers me is that in socialized education (kindergartens through colleges), we don't teach people how to think we teach them what to think. Opposing viewpoints are not allowed, much less taught and studied, to allow a student to perform their own dialectic. Further driving home to everyone watching and themselves "don't think for yourself, it's bad for social acceptance.". Edit:spelling, grammar.
It absolutely is the trans people. They are some of the most vehement campaigners here on Reddit, anytime any criticism of this comes up, there are always trans/non-binary folk here just frothing at the mouth hoping to call someone a nazi for not agreeing with the trans in sports issue. Look at any front page post from a year ago. The landscape has now changed regarding this issue because of it's relative prevalence, since everyone was told it was ridiculous that it would ever happen, yet here we are (hence the top comment being a liberal saying they think this is a bad idea).
It’s actually no one (except maybe a few idiots that want publicly) that are actively pushing for MTF trans people in women’s sports.
I'm an "ally" in a sense that I just live and let live, and congratulate them if they get what makes them happy. But I say one bad thing about the new women's league champion of swimming, and suddenly everyone treats me like I want to kill all T's off the LGBT.
It's a mixed bag of both.
This. I've worked with a guy in transition. When we met he was a few years into becoming a man. Back then we did not have direct interaction, so my first impression was he was a 'guy acting gay, but wasn't sure of it' After a year we got a project together, his hormone therapy had evolves, and I only then found out he used to be a she, but always a manly girl, really born into the wrong body. He did not have a problem talking about it, and was/is a great guy. The process took over 10 years, and now he's just a guy .. if you don't know his past, you won't even realize the work he had to do. For me I still see some female things (like concentration on tasks, Intuition and more emotional viewpoints) which are great in our projects together. Best of the two worlds, i envy his dedicated ethics, because I'm more "what does this button do" kind of guy
I worked with a FTM person too and unfortunately it caused a lot of issues because we were in customer service. So I'd call him Steve... but he looked exactly like a lady. Big boobs, long hair, long lashes, nails, etc. Like, your stereotypical girl-girl. But I wanted to be respectful... until I got a complaint from a customer to my boss saying I was harassing him because I kept calling her... him. So yeah, that was fun lmao. Turns out she was just a she looking for attention as she later told us, and it really soured everyone's opinion at the workplace, but I don't regret it. I treated that person like an individual and I'd do it again.
I’m picturing this situation and it’s pretty bizarre lol
It was utterly so. Imagine an old couple looking at with with disgust because you just cslled your heavily female presenting colleague... Steve he/him
I met a good friend at a week long training event, we just chilled and worked together due to similar interests. He eventually tells me he is trans, I would have never know as I wasn't picking up anything different. Just a dude.
The need to be relevant is a powerful emotion, no matter the appearance of decisions
> just a regular person Yeah, I have to constantly point out on reddit that even a significant amount of trans people don't subscribe to gender ideology. You'll have no trouble finding people who say 'I'm a man, but I prefer to live as a woman'. I have no patience for 'allies' that claim to speak for not just all trans people but *the entire concept of trans people* and pretend that everyone is on the same page because their position is somehow undeniably correct.
I don't doubt that those people exist, but I know several trans people and not one of them would call their gender identity a "preference". The trans people I know just want to be acknowledged and accepted as a member of the gender that matches their identity. Like everyone does. Only, it's not the gender that was assigned to them at birth.
The internet brings out the worst of people of all ages, genders, sexualities, political positions, religions etc. Not that there arent pieces of shit in real life, the internet just gives em the freedom to be even worse.
They’re the same people. Most of them IRL just won’t say it to your face.
Likewise. The crazy trans movement is definitely there, but all the trans people I continue relations with are just ordinary people and their transness is very much about them, not something they project onto everything around them. I have met a couple of the psycho types in person before, but suffice it to say I put as much distance between myself and them as quickly as possible.
Some are dumb, some are average, some are smart. They are regular people
That begs the question. Are the online ones just regular people that become this online mess? Or are these onlinees like that IRL? Because both of those can be true and god help is if It is
People's true colors fly amidst the anonymity of online discourse. It's very possible that many of them are one in the same.
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It’s going to be interesting to watch develop. I think it is a unique issues that needs to be addressed. I just don’t like that this (and bathrooms) are used so often by the boomers in my life as red herring arguments for the whole topic of trans rights.
Talking about bathrooms I like the idea that 2kliksphilip had with his bathroom video, without mentioning trans and non binary or even considering that aspect he proposed the idea of non segregated bathrooms (segregation refers to separation in general not just ethnicity) so people would have one big bathroom with stalls and a big stall like part with a big enough divider for a bunch of urinals.
I’ve been in those kinds of bathrooms. And change rooms where the lockers are all one unisex room and everyone uses their own small fully walled in stall.
Do you see them protesting this?
In my experience, no they dont understand. I left a comment on a youtube video of two doctors discussing this issue, and its safe to say it was flooded with people giving luke warm arguments as to why male athletes who transition should be able to compete in cis women sports. Not one of them would even acknowledge the biological advantages that comes from male puberty - not even the doctor advocating for it in the video would acknowledge it either.
Yes they do. The Internet ones at least. Outside of that no, and those ones get called trump supports lol
Nuanced question. Not black and white. Should someone who starts transitioning today be able to compete tomorrow - no. Should they be able to 10 years from now - probably. Other people have competed in the Olympics post transition and didn’t medal.
Like any group, they're not a monolith. I've seen/heard trans people be both supportive of Lia and other trans athletes, but also those who see it as a problem.
They are propably very divided on it, just like everyone else. I worked on a medical experiment on trans people once, while this situation was ongoing, and talked to some of them while chatting between tests. Everyone I talked to thought this was rediculous. But I don't know if that was representative.
Honestly I feel like the American online lgbtq community is the most toxic shit ever. We have quite a lot of lgbtq and kathoey here in Thailand and I have never ever seen anything that’s even remotely close to the discourse I see on Reddit and twitter. It’s disgusting
This, the hormones for kids, teachers in some places being allowed to hide their conversations about lgbtq issues with students from their parents. And Governments arguing for the power to take away children from parents if they refuse to put them on hormone therapy when adviced to do so by schools: Are the death sentences of this movement.
I wandered into some trans sub and it had a teacher in it asking for advice on how to crack an “egg” in her class. The only indication that the child in her class was trans was that she wore hoodies and didn’t seem very girlie. Like how about you just teach the child Algebra, Candace?
How is wearing a hoodie fucking trans?😂🙄
It helps the body transitioning from cold to warm.
This teacher apparently never heard of tomboys.
Ppl are just stupid
Because the core idea behind "transgender" is that your behaviour determines your gender. Sweaters aren't girly, so the girl must be a boy on the inside. Sexism all the way down.
An oversized hoodie and baggy jeans was like the unofficial uniform of me and all my Latino friends in junior high school😂 This teacher would have tried to turn us into some trans cult with her line of thinking lol
That ..., kinda sounds like grooming with extra steps.
And in California they're trying to make it mandatory, by making it illegal for parents to know about this.
And you're lying. They want to protect kids. Not make them trans. No state and no organisation has EVER suggested forcing kids to transition or even making it illegal for parents to know. They are making it so kids can talk about things their parents would beat them for. That's it. There's literally nothing more to it. Also, the specific phrasing of "making it illegal for parents to know" sounds really absurd. Thought crime? Like, if you learn that your kid is trans, you go in prison? Please quote the law so we can all see how big of lie that is.
Teachers like this should be banned from schools and anywhere else a child may reasonably be found.
Needs more teeth to keep the predators away. Charge them with child abuse bc is it. Teachers aren’t psychologists or mental health experts. Their job is core learning. Nothing more. Who you want to identify as or what gender you’re sexually attracted to has no place in a classroom. Horror show.
Evil. That person needs to be in prison.
Yeah it's a tough voting world. I feel like I have to choose between oppressing minorities or giving the government the ability to take away my kid for piss poor reasons. There is no in-between.
Not to mention a good amount of pedophiles calling themselves "minor attracted persons" and trying to attach themselves to the LGBT movement
Define “a good amount.” I’ve never seen it was more than a handful of fucking moron internet dwelling jackasses.
I think hormone therapy should wait until 18. That's one of those things that shouldn't be decided for you.
What this says is that men are better at everything, even at being women.
"Say what you want about Katelyn Jenner, but her coming-out took balls."
I know a couple of trans people very well and work with another one. Lovely people *who are otherwise well rounded individuals* that just happen to have their brain and genital genders mixed up. I'll support them 100%. But there are also the activist trans, the mental health issue "trans" the look at me I'll do anything for attention trans and the most unfortunate the "it's my social group at school" trans. And the bullshit part is that I'm supposed to put up with the latter otherwise I'm being labeled as a hater of the former. And that's absolutely not true.
I see that a lot in mental health. On the phone at times, people have confused me for a woman due to my voice pitch. Doesn't bother me I just correct it or I dont. But we actually have to walk on egg shells with trans patients in making sure we get everything gender related correct. Because if you make an incorrect assumption some complain and lose it.
They should just be a 3rd category. Neither male or female.
That category is the male dominated ‘open’, women are welcome to compete in all open categories of every physical sport, it’s just female biology doesn’t compare, case in point when the Williams sisters played against like the rank 200th male tennis player and he smoked them
You don’t have an actual unified cause, and thats by design. The trans community is being exploited for financial and political reasons and I can’t comprehend why more of them aren’t speaking out against it.
I have been for years. I just get called transphobic for it so I gave up. The modern trans movement has already cost me my surgeries (got denied because they operated on someone who didn't have gender dysphoria so they made it harder to get approved for surgeries and well, I legally smoke pot to help with my anxiety and ADHD so I got rejected) so at this point I'm just gonna watch the whole thing burn down and laugh at all the actual trans people who mindlessly went along with a harmful ideology that would so obviously harm us. Can't stop the probable worst from happening so I might as well enjoy saying "I told you so".
“I told you so” is literally the only reason I’m alive today.
Because they currently see the exploitation as advantageous, they'll only start complaining once their life decisions stop being marketable.
I’ve seen terminally online trans said that they like the exploitation because it owns the rights.
I am behind them in everything but competition sports.
I'm thinking just have a male, female and a trans categories and then I'm all for it.
They did for some sports and complaints were lodged that it's not very inclusive if they are separated to their own division, and therefore not seen as real men or women so it isn't good enough. With radicals claiming separate divisions are in fact transphobic. You can't win, so there's no point trying.
I’d also imagine there probably aren’t enough trans people in each sport to really have much competition for a separate category
Yeah, being seen and recognized as the gender they identify with is generally priority numero uno. But the biological advantages are undeniable, so it becomes a catch 22.
Yes, and let them choose the fight themselves. Do they want their 'origin' gender, or the trans? I bet no one will take the trans, because their going to lose even there. Keep the field level, we have had to many doping scandals in the past, this is no different
>Yes, and let them choose the fight themselves. Do they want their 'origin' gender, or the trans? And what about regular women? Do they not get a choice not to fight against males?
That choice is already there. If enough of them say this is the line, we don't compete the sport will eventually make the choice. But that is what I have been saying, the most of them are more afraid of being cancelled then being right
Couldn’t agree more
It’s stupid in all aspects
Exactly. It’s ok to accept their decision, lifestyle and treat trans people with respect but there is still biology and science involved. I feel like it’s not the participation in the event that offends, it’s the recognition and ranking of outcome that gets people pissed.
But also this graphic is a lie. Lia Thomas isn't #1 in women's swimming.
It's because they're lying to you https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/22/us/lia-thomas-transgender-swimmer-ivy-league/index.html >As a freshman, Thomas set a time of 8 minutes and 57.55 seconds in the 1,000-yard freestyle, the 6th-fastest men’s time in the country. Her times in the 500-yard freestyle and the 1,650-yard freestyle were among the top 100 in the country. The next year, Thomas took second place at the 2019 Ivy League championships in the men’s 500-yard, 1,000-yard and 1,650-yard freestyle, shaving seconds off her earlier times. >She started on hormone replacement therapy in May 2019 and came out as trans that fall, yet she still had to compete on the men’s team. It was awkward and uncomfortable, she said, and her speed suffered as her muscles weakened from the hormone therapy. https://www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/news/a-look-at-the-numbers-and-times-no-denying-the-advantages-of-lia-thomas/ >During the last season Thomas competed as a member of the Penn men’s team, which was 2018-19, she ranked 554th in the 200 freestyle, 65th in the 500 freestyle and 32nd in the 1650 freestyle. >In her final meet, Thomas finaled in three events at the NCAA Championships, highlighted by a victory in the 500 freestyle. She also finished fifth in the 200 freestyle and was eighth in the 100 freestyle. Although she didn’t contest the event at the NCAA Champs, Thomas had one of the country’s top times in the 1650 freestyle. Does that really sound like number 1 in the country to you? This meme, and the 'news' that it's parroting, is misleading at best, propaganda at worst, and fools like you are falling for it
Yep. Take one for the team of progress (overall trans acceptance) and don’t push to compete in womans sports if you’ve gone through male puberty. Dick move, pun intended Love to all the trans peeps 🏳️🌈, you are awesome
It's an all or nothing, you're a dye hard fan of the trans "issue" then this is your fault too. Congratulations
I’m with you there. People need to feel confident and safe to be themselves… not to get an edge in sports. That being said, this isn’t a “funny meme” it more of a “sociopolitical complaint meme.”
This, and a lot of other "trans woman wins female sports" are fake though, she never won first place and also she won 6th place when she was still assigned male
Given that it's a meme and doesn't reference a source for these rankings it's a little hard to be sure I'm looking at the same thing, so take this with a pinch of salt. Based on the "highlights" section of Lia's swimcloud (https://www.swimcloud.com/swimmer/314430/) I suspect that these rankings are being displayed in a manipulative way to foment outrage. What stands out to me is that in 2019 (pre-transition / competing against men) she was 2nd in the Ivy League Championships for 500, 1000, and 1650 freestyle, followed by two years of pandemic / no data, and then in 2022 she wins first in the Ivy League Championships for 100, 200, and 500 freestyle. To me that's a very different picture than the one that the OP is trying to convey.
And once again, people are going to ignore this information because they "feel" there's something unfair happening. Because the narrative that Lia Thomas found a cheap hack to get a competitive advantage is so much more compelling and useful to dishonest political actors. She went from a promising silver medal male athlete to very briefly taking the first spot on the podium in women's events at the cost of having her achievements forever attacked and put into question because of the trans controversy. You don't do that to advance your swimming career. You only do that if you legitimately want to live as a woman. A decision she will forever be shamed for even by self-proclaimed "bleeding heart liberals". The way her character has been assassinated is sickening.
If I was a woman swimmer I’d be pissed
He should've applied for an African American student athlete scholarship while he was at it
And para-Olympics.
>In March 2022, Thomas became the first openly transgender athlete to win an NCAA Division I national championship in any sport after winning the women's 500-yard freestyle with a time of 4:33.24; Olympic silver medalist Emma Weyant was second with a time 1.75 seconds behind Thomas.
What a dick!
To be fair, it's Society that is a dick, he just takes advantage of it
Don't hate the player hate the game. Read a story about some dude who was having issues getting custody of his kid after a divorce. Mothers tend to get all the rights in their country. Dude went in, changed his gender and got access to his kid as the rightful mother. I mean her kid. And by dude I mean dudette went in....
Mrs Doubtfire vibes that one.
This makes it sound like you can just waltz into the DMV and ask for your gender to be reassigned rather than the years, hormone therapy, surgeries, documentation, and hassle of the reality.
Yup in many countries you can just waltz in. That case was European country I believe. Maybe Spain. But another one from a while back. Some UK rapper went in to records office change his gender to be a woman. Went to compete in a women's weightlifting competition. Broke all records. Went back and then de-transitioned.
he did not do that, he posted a video of himself dead lifting 238 kg with a statement saying he had broken the British women's deadlift record while "identifying as a woman". Udezue stated that he published the video to criticize arguments that support allowing transgender women to compete in women's sports, which he believes are flawed. allowing this is the Wikipedia article this was taken from: [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zuby](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zuby)
It’s spelt WITH idiot 😂
It’s that that’s got him in to this mess.
Noted.. Removing 4 letters from your name makes you faster..
Of course. Less letters offer less resistance. It’s science.
Gotta shed that weight!
Gotta be hydrodynamic
and all your competition.
People will less than five letter names: 💀
Level up
Na changing to a lower difficulty is more like it
That is just pathetic. Idk why would people allow it. Can't they have their own category? It is interesting than no trans would go to men's league.
They did.... once, it was a Female to male trans boxer, stepped in to a ring with a male boxer, it was such a one sided fight that they had to cut the live feed of the match, the trans guy got knocked the fuck out 21 seconds in EDIT : Ok getting tired of people being unable to read... so the guy im responding too, said, you dont see trans people going in to "men's league", i respond with "They did....once," then the sentence changes to *Transgender boxer* Patricio Manuel getting knocked the fuck out, they did, and haven't fought since ( as far as i know). You are correct, they did go 3-1, but as far as i know, they haven't gone in to the ring since due to a shoulder injury (but thats as far as have seen it
Don't you wonder why all speed/force trans competers are male to female, and competing in female competition ? It's not very often the F to M route and competing. It is the modern(woke) cheating
Not true. Texas makes athletes compete with their birth gender so there is trans boy whomping on girls in wrestling because he isn’t allowed to compete with boys.
Lmao. I think there is also opposite. I am pretty sure there was some trans woman in ufc and she literally broke someone's skull. It is crazy that there is even debate about it.
There was in MMA. I'm sure it was not UFC.
Wasnt that the first time he lost? Idk you make it sound like he sucks at boxing.
Remember the name? I'm curious
Because most people are afraid to be seen as bigots, and simultaneously too lazy or uninterested to actually do any research on the topic. I’m trans and it’s obviously wrong and unfair. Lia Thomas went through male puberty and anyone with eyes can see it. It gives her a massive advantage.
Bro who the fuck would watch that
The same people that watch women's sports
Damn now the NBA has to make even more money to cover their losses
Improvise, adapt, overcome.
Makes me think of Futurama
[https://cdn.newsbusters.org/images/south\_park\_-\_10\_09\_31\_pm.jpg](https://cdn.newsbusters.org/images/south_park_-_10_09_31_pm.jpg)
Wow. Men are really good at women's sports.
Only problem is Lia was ranked 44th.
Finally! Thank you!
Lia thomas wasn't number 1 in women's swimming that's fake
THANK you! SOMEONE here understands to not take a fucking reddit meme at face value. The only time people pay attention to is the time Lia won 1st in a single race in a competition. She also got something like 8th in another race IN THAT SAME COMPETITION!!
Also before starting transition, Thomas recorded the 6th fastest time in the nation in the men's division.
For some more context, in the 500-yard freestyle(one of her best races) she swam a 4:18 which is about 12 seconds off the men's American record. After transitioning her best time was about 15 seconds slower which is 9 seconds off the women's American record. Taking general performance variation into account, this doesn't seem particularly unfair to me...
Oddly just an hour ago I was rethinking my stance on the issue, realizing that assuming an advantage isn't the default unless advantage has been shown, which it hasn't.
Yes, but using actual facts destroys the meme and takes away people's God given right and duty to hate.
This isn’t a relevant argument though. It’s specific rather than generally applicable. The real point is: should we make sports mixed. No ofc. There. Wouldn’t be any women left getting places on teams because professional male athletes are so so far ahead.
Tuck and roll
Aquam'am
Wdym, we can laugh and make memes about this without being called transphobe?
still gets to keep his dick
The best of both worlds
love dems lol
Mike tyson shows in women boxing.
"Equality"
funny how that works
Gross.
What a douche
according to feminists and lgbt community this is just fine and moral enough to 'be socially acceptable'
I’ve heard a few feminists and at least two trans people I’ve know that said the could at least see why trans people might be prevented from professional sports
And this will never happen because people are more scared of cancelling then they are at seeing the truth
They can't accept that trans aren't women. Meanwhile trans people just want to be treated like humans, not specifically women nor men. Human.
24 hour news wants you to believe this, but it’s not the case. Most people are intelligent and can have nuanced opinions - it’s not all or nothing. I would argue most feminists/lgbtq people believe both “we need to support trans people” and “people who have gone through male puberty shouldn’t participate in women’s sports”.
Hey now…don’t lump the entire LGBT community into this. I’m gay and while I believe that trans people deserve respect, the whole sports debate is a valid argument. I don’t necessarily believe it has to be legislated, and I REALLY doubt someone would undergo the process to change who they are just to win a medal or two, but biology, for better or worse, dictates that those with XY chromosomes will have an edge over those with XX chromosomes and so offers an unfair advantage. Until the playing field is leveled, if you’re XY, you stay with XY.
You doubt something that's already happened multiple times in women's sports. That's denial and expected from someone who refuses to see reality.
It's Just fuckin wrong
Like the one we got in disc golf. Throws longer than any of the other women..
That ain't a woman
To be clear, Thomas was banned from competing 2 years ago.
I know it’s a meme and memes are rarely factual but before transition during her freshman year at penn she was ranked in the top 100 nationally in multiple events and ranked 6th nationally in the 500 free after transitioning she only got faster in one event and that is because she started focusing more on sprint swimming that event is the 50 free the other thing I don’t understand why people are outraged about this is if she had such an unfair advantage and was so much better than every other women then why does she have zero NCAA records.
Except those rankings are entirely fake.
This is so disingenuous. She was a top male swimmer *until* she started HRT. Her ranking only dropped when she was on hormone therapy but still competing against cis men.
Not anymore. He/she got banned from womens tournaments.
Well if it makes you feel any better they are barred from competing in women’s sports by World Aquatics now.
Something tells me this post will get locked soon
I’ve seen this a bunch of times, and I knew it couldn’t be that cut and dry. The 462nd was in one event. She’s lost to cis women, numerous times, the big race she won that got everyone upset, she won by 1.75secs. And was not a record, and had the 6th fastest time for UPenn men’s team. I don’t know enough to say whether trans women should be able to compete, but I do know misinformation is fucked up. And you’re a piece of shit if this is how you think we should decide who can and can’t play in a sport. It’s gross, and you should do the bare minimum and not get you info from a meme.
hes cheating and knows damn well about it too.
This is celebrating mediocre idiots
she’s not number #1 wtf lmao
This is not a funnymeme, it's a sadmeme...
Did someone finaly find this dude's shame? He really needs it
[удалено]
I just dont understand how that thing can be so self gratified...
We need trans competitions. But mtf anf ftm or the same thing will happen.
An MtF trans woman who's on HRT does not have physical advantages. Estrogen hormone treatment breaks down muscle tissue in the body, not to mention that you need testosterone blockers for it to take effect. Which means that the body completely stops producing testosterone. If a trans woman is on HRT, she should be allowed to compete against other women. If not on HRT, that's a different story. With all that said, I'm so tired of hearing about how it's "unfair" for trans women to compete against other women. Source: Me. I'm a trans woman undergoing HRT.
He should change his name to Tucker.
We men are winning. Even in gender specific sports we are winning lmao. Woohoo 🙌🎉 now this is what feminist asked for.
Cringe
Why lie/exaggerate? Thomas went from ranked 65th to 1st in a single event. Nationally, as a woman, Thomas was ranked 46th in the country.
Ugly inside and out
He looks like a weirdo in both pictures.
“The new women with beards and cocks” -Ricky Gervais.
I guess the old kibble and bits was slowing him down the whole time
if you cant beat em join em
He switch teams I see
What is a woman?
truly a reddit moment
[five page essay with references to other sources, none of which answer the question, but rather create a circular self-referential argument]
Someone born with female reproductive organs and biological structures. And some seriously mentally ill individuals will alter that. Best to let them do what they want with their bodies and stay far far away.
this is why no one takes "trans" seriously
It’s a disgusting mental illness. I hope HE and other trannys get the help they/them/he/she/it deserves
You didn't have to list all those bullshit pronouns at the end. It's he. That's it. He can live in whatever fantasy land he wants idgaf.
That dude is an idiot.
Wake up honey. Its your daily dose of funnymemes right wing retardation
How is men dominating women’s sports right wing? It’s a simple concept, men will dominate women’s sports if they’re allowed to compete in women’s sports. It’s why men and women compete separately in the first place.
Stop encouraging this. Don’t call him a her and his name is William
This meme is a crock of shit https://www.cnn.com/2022/02/22/us/lia-thomas-transgender-swimmer-ivy-league/index.html >As a freshman, Thomas set a time of 8 minutes and 57.55 seconds in the 1,000-yard freestyle, the 6th-fastest men’s time in the country. Her times in the 500-yard freestyle and the 1,650-yard freestyle were among the top 100 in the country. The next year, Thomas took second place at the 2019 Ivy League championships in the men’s 500-yard, 1,000-yard and 1,650-yard freestyle, shaving seconds off her earlier times. >She started on hormone replacement therapy in May 2019 and came out as trans that fall, yet she still had to compete on the men’s team. It was awkward and uncomfortable, she said, and her speed suffered as her muscles weakened from the hormone therapy. https://www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/news/a-look-at-the-numbers-and-times-no-denying-the-advantages-of-lia-thomas/ >During the last season Thomas competed as a member of the Penn men’s team, which was 2018-19, she ranked 554th in the 200 freestyle, 65th in the 500 freestyle and 32nd in the 1650 freestyle. >In her final meet, Thomas finaled in three events at the NCAA Championships, highlighted by a victory in the 500 freestyle. She also finished fifth in the 200 freestyle and was eighth in the 100 freestyle. Although she didn’t contest the event at the NCAA Champs, Thomas had one of the country’s top times in the 1650 freestyle. TLDR: She was **number 2** in **3** races at the Men's Ivy League championship as a sophomore. At the 2022 Women's NCAA championship, she won a single race, and in her others placed 5th and 8th.
If trans people are competing, then sex needs to stop being the qualifying factor in how they compete. If there will be 6’3 women and 5’4 men, then we need a different way to classify sports. Stop putting people in classes determined by their genitalia, and take in to consideration people’s height and weight, just like they do in boxing. It’s such an easy fix, but it’s much too much fun for people in power to watch us rip each other apart over this issue rather than fix it.
Didn't the IOC ban all these freaks?
Imagine being a top class swimmer on a women’s team. You work hard, you train to be the best you can be, and swimming is life. Then this fucking asshat is allowed to to jump in—handily owning everyone by seconds and breaking women’s records across the board. Like what the fuck is wrong with the folks in charge here? It’s just so stupid to me. 
Proof that life is 100x easier as a woman
Do you think her life is “easy” as the current trans punching bag?