Just to further elaborate. Ghost is the mouth piece essentially of The Clergy. The Clergy is the oversight/corporation using Ghost to topple established religions. Ghouls/Ghoulettes are the nameless/anonymous musicians. A ritual is the concert performed by Ghost.
Lol, we're all members 😉, no but fr, congregant sounds proper to me, though I was hoping we'd have a cooler title since some other bands have more creative titles for their fanbase, like how Slipknot fans are called maggots... actually I can see how that wouldn't be cool to some people but I think it's cool as fuck lol
Sorry, I'm about to go gaslight gatekeep ghostboss in this post.
The "ghoul" term should really be reserved for the musicians who play with TF/Papa up there.
Also Ghestie really feels icky because too close to Swiftie, and I really don't want that to be what we become.
Its like NFL fans screaming about seeing her on screen during games... when in reality she is on screen for less than 60 seconds in an entire 3 - 4 hour broadcast.
Spanish and Russian, spoke almost perfectly when younger now I've forgotten stuff BC I don't use them anymore.
And I do know some Japanese started learning one or two years ago but had to give up due to my poor English grades at school.
Even if I've forgotten most Spanish and some russian it's harder to learn other languages because well it's easier to get confused between grammar and probation. Hope that answers your questions!
Edit :
Also I'm not Russian nor Spanish I'm Bulgarian but I don't count my mother's tongue just the languages I learned separately
I appreciate that it's helped get my younger cousin into ghost, that's good.
Everything else? Not so much. Good for them for the success, but this isn't the way I wanted them to go main stream.
It really was. I hate it… I wanna go back to how beautiful Meliora was/is when I first heard it. The TikTok crowd are super annoying.
PLUS the thing that everyone forgets, is that MOTC was meant to be a 60’s version of Ghost. Not representative of their current metal sound. Picking up fans based off MOTC , was essentially false advertising and has changed the fandom in a negative way. I wish we could go back to before TikTok.
I know I’m gatekeeping but I’m fine with that, frankly. I love my dark and delicious ghost. Not Austin Powers ghost and its 12 year old ‘fans’
I love Ghost and always will, but sometimes it’s a tough call.
The band has changed and I have accepted that. I still love the lore and the music, but I haven’t bought any shirts or merch in a while. I’m excited for the movie.
For real, I got into Ghost because I really enjoyed their music and thought their stage presence was amazing, with the theatrics and loose lore. Thought the idea of the frontman being changed for each album cycle was really interesting. I'm not the oldest fan, I knew of them for years, but never gave them a listen until I heard Square Hammer and fell into this rabbithole.
Ghost is still one of my favorite bands, but part of the fandom has gotten a bit cringe. Same goes for any band that makes it big.
I don't get why it matters? It's what the younger fans call themselves, you can be called Congregation or Ghesties it doesn't matter as long as you like the band if you're really that mad over a word, maybe you should take some time for yourself
ghoul isnt gendered. some people want to be referred to by the more feminine term tho. thats their choice. ghoul itself isnt male in my opinion its j a ghoul. like a ghost or spirit. ghoulette is inherently feminine tho bc some ppl wanted a feminine term for themselves. dont ask me abt bringing gender into it. i didnt make up the terms
The ghouls are the musicians who play with Papa. 💀
I’m not a Ghestie’s fan. I like sticking to the (now seemingly “old school” 😂) Sister/Sibling of Sin or the congregation.
But at least ghestie is a name for fans.
God, right??? I was drawn to ghost as a band back in 2016 for their amazingly brash and campy middle finger to organized religion while writing sick classic metal music. The “lore” of the band being a fun background fun little thing was just a nice bonus. But with all of these new fans, it’s turning into a tumblr fandom where the lore and characters are becoming more important than they originally were.
This issue has nothing to do with lore. In fact, what you're saying is part of the problem. Just let people be who they want to be, let them enjoy the fandom the way they want to enjoy it, and stop trying to police identity and enjoyment.
Because neurodivergent teenagers are incapable of being fans of any form of media in their own harmless way without being bullied by gatekeeping adults, that’s why. Every other social media platform’s Ghost community has been so welcoming to anyone and everyone; I have no clue what’s up with Reddit.
I swear every time I happen to come here there’s a post bitching about the same thing. Why can’t fans just refer to themselves however they want to instead of it being a huge fight? Who cares what other people do? I’d rather spend my time listening to Ghost and consuming the content I enjoy than whining about meaningless shit like this.
Is Ghoulette used by the band itself ? I remember hearing Copia use the word for the ghoul introductions in If You Have Ghost during rituals but it could just be me mishearing (me not being native English + Copia's accent + mic echoes)
Unpopular opinion: Fans don't think they are... but many fans disrespect the ghouls. This is a great example. "Ghouls" are the musicians and they are also nameless for a reason.
Not me. I would be okay with parishioner, congregant, supplicant, motherf!%*#r, spectrophillians and a whole host of other things that doesn't sound like we're so unoriginal as to copy off of Taylor Swift fans. I got nothing against Taylor but this is freaking lazy. Edited: for spelling error
I don't really pay attention to stuff like this... I prefer to just be a fan.
But I agree that Ghoul and Ghoule/Ghoulette should be reserved for the musicians on srage portraying as such.
Congregation was the actual term, due to the band being a satanic cult and that. Ghestie was a name given by the TikTok crew which, alongside some other things that downplayed the occult vibe the band had, repulses those of us which follow the band from earlier in its career
I was gona say. Those of us from before the tiktok days who are older than 19 aren't fans of "Ghestie"
Not tryna gatekeep, y'all do what you want and have fun! The term to me is just a little weird.
Trust me, there are people from after Ghost met TikTok that aren't fans of "ghestie" either.
Source: I'm one of them. Then again, I'm already 36, not 19, so maybe that's why...
I've actually been a fan since Opus! I think Ghestie can be a very sweet term, especially for younger fans.
Edit: Why are y'all downvoting people who are just stating opinions or asking questions? Were you not all young fans of something once? Would you have liked someone to have rained on your parade when you were young and enjoying things? That's the reason I think Ghestie is endearing. It's just young fans being young and having fun, no harm in it. Yes I know some like ghouls, the congregation, and ghostie--I do too. But is there any harm in having fun with a fun band?
It’s harmless, but it’s a bit jarring for fans who have been following the band for longer because that wasn’t a widely used name for fans until more recent years.
I remember when we were the congregation or siblings/brothers/sisters of sin.
Ghestie is too childish for me, so I feel uncomfortable using it. I’m not a teen or in my early twenties anymore (but no shade to anyone over 25+ who likes it). I don’t want to rain on anyone’s parade though, so I really don’t care about the fans who like it. To each their own. It’s harmless.
But it’s misinformation that it’s the official fan name, which some people seem to believe. There is no “official” name for the fan base.
Thank you for this! It's refreshing to see a negative reaction to it without it being so blown out of proportion. I don't like the term either (for essentially the same reasons) but I couldn't care less if other people do. It doesn't hurt me. It literally doesn't affect me at all. My self image doesn't rely on what other fans of the same band I love call themselves, y'know? lol
Been a Ghost fan since Opus. Still a Ghost fan. Names are meaningless. Ghost is anti-dogma, and anti establishment. Stop trying to make established dogma.
I have no clue honestly. I don't really care for upvotes or down votes.
I have noticed people in this subreddit seem to be very sensitive, but who knows.
ghoulette is an inherently feminine term but ghoul isnt. ghoul is just like a ghost or wtv. and as the other commenter said. thats why we the congregation
The amount of pointless pissiness on his sub is honestly depressing. Tobias wants this fanbase to be “a safe space for the ‘weird kids’”, yet said weird kids get bullied and mocked by full grown adults on here all because of a stupid harmless nickname, and people in this thread committing the crime of telling others to lighten up a little are being downvoted to oblivion. I’ve even seen people say they hate it because it sounds “too autistic”, which is fucking wild. Even the TWITTER Ghost community is more appealing than this.
The only reason I stick around this sub is for news; but people getting this butthurt over something so silly makes me want to block it entirely
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You really came here and decided to be ableist for no reason, huh?
How about you go and try doing some growing up and then you might understand basic human emotions like empathy.
People have opinions. That’s all.
The older popular names for the fan base was the congregation and siblings/brothers/sisters of sin, which makes sense thematically.
It’s silly to get wound up over it, though. Ghestie is too childish for me (this seems to by why other people seem to dislike it), but there’s no harm in anyone using it. There needs to be less posts about it.
Ghestie......
If the majority of you think that that's an acceptable term, then it'll be my mission to find one that is significantly less cringey.
Most of y'all must've come from TikTok.
Idk but just saw in the Fandom of my region someone using it and I was like, okay but why you're calling us all ghesties? I just want to be a nameless brat ghoulette... I don't want to be a ghestie it doesn't sound that cool.
Better yet, they call us "Children of the world" just let it that way, we can be brat children of the world, WHY. GHESTIES.???? or just MF and FF!
I thought we were the congregation
We are the Congregation. We aren't Ghouls up there playing for Papa.
Just to further elaborate. Ghost is the mouth piece essentially of The Clergy. The Clergy is the oversight/corporation using Ghost to topple established religions. Ghouls/Ghoulettes are the nameless/anonymous musicians. A ritual is the concert performed by Ghost.
Yeah, but what is one member of the congregation called?... a congregator?
A congregant. Or, as you said yourself, a member of the Congregation.
Lol, we're all members 😉, no but fr, congregant sounds proper to me, though I was hoping we'd have a cooler title since some other bands have more creative titles for their fanbase, like how Slipknot fans are called maggots... actually I can see how that wouldn't be cool to some people but I think it's cool as fuck lol
Maggot is adorable, but congregant is absolutely rad. Fills that little rebel meter for the ex-Christians and brings everyone into a loving embrace.
Lol yeah, I guess it does
A ghestie
Nah, screw that
I’ll never use thst term… the cringe level makes my teeth hurt.
It's okay ghestie, we can get through this.
Me neither, it's the worst idea that whoever came up with that has ever had
Ghestie there are a lot worse ideas out there like hating newer fans for no reason when we all like the same silly pseudo satanic band.
Then don't annoy me by calling me a fucking Ghestie
You are one whether you like it or not ghestie. Hail Ghost.
No, YOU are a Ghestie, I am a congregant, Ghestie is a horrible term and I don't have to use it because I'm not a cringy-ass lozer from TikTok
Exactly right
Fandom wiki try not to spread misinformation challenge
Level: Impossible
Boss : Mod
Sorry, I'm about to go gaslight gatekeep ghostboss in this post. The "ghoul" term should really be reserved for the musicians who play with TF/Papa up there. Also Ghestie really feels icky because too close to Swiftie, and I really don't want that to be what we become.
"Ghesticle"
Calling us "Ghesticles" would be so funny ngl
I thought “Ghestie” was just a play on “bestie” lol
No ghouls are actually all 'lower' members of the clergy, also the ones posting on social media etc. Not specifically musicians
Taylor lives rent free in the minds of many... too funny.
fr like did she murder peoples families or something 😭
Its like NFL fans screaming about seeing her on screen during games... when in reality she is on screen for less than 60 seconds in an entire 3 - 4 hour broadcast.
fr 💀 let the woman support her boyfriend lmao and get mad at nfl instead if it bothers you so much
Not me! But aren't we MFs? I mean... We've been called this on many rituals-
What about FFs 🥺👉👈 I mean he is a priest after all
Punished for being horny smdh
Punished for a dumb joke. Lol, oh well.
Downvoted only to get it to -69, will upvote this comment to restore balance
Oh no it’s at -70… need another upvote to get back to -69… but it was that sexual humor that got me here in the first place!!! There’s no winning 😭😭😆
Hahaha I didn't even understand 'em lol. But really what is 'FF'? (English is my fourth language sorry)
Now I'm curious of two things wich are both absolutely out of context 1. What are the other three languages 2. Are there any more
Spanish and Russian, spoke almost perfectly when younger now I've forgotten stuff BC I don't use them anymore. And I do know some Japanese started learning one or two years ago but had to give up due to my poor English grades at school. Even if I've forgotten most Spanish and some russian it's harder to learn other languages because well it's easier to get confused between grammar and probation. Hope that answers your questions! Edit : Also I'm not Russian nor Spanish I'm Bulgarian but I don't count my mother's tongue just the languages I learned separately
That's cool :) And a coincidence that i also speak/learn Spanish, Russian and English, not one of them being my first language.
Cool!
'M' in 'MF' is for 'mother', F would be the other gender biological parent
Thank you my friend
Idk why we need to make up cringe terms when fans have been called the clergy/congregation already
Somebody calls me ghestie I ain't talking to them. The Congregation was fine.
Just checked and it is gone. Let’s keep it that way.
Awesome news. 🙂
Please somone edit that out 💀
Why the fuck ghesties? Ghosties is right there for the taking if anything
Ghestie makes my blood boil lol
I never knew a made up word could make me so mad lol
Me, too.
It sounds like a boil or some other gross physical manifestation of an illness. "Ew, man, you're covered in ghesties!"
GATEKEEPER! /s
NEVER ghesties. EVER. 🤮
This just reminds me how much the fan base has changed in only a few years. Tik tok was a mistake.
I appreciate that it's helped get my younger cousin into ghost, that's good. Everything else? Not so much. Good for them for the success, but this isn't the way I wanted them to go main stream.
Agreed.
It really was. I hate it… I wanna go back to how beautiful Meliora was/is when I first heard it. The TikTok crowd are super annoying. PLUS the thing that everyone forgets, is that MOTC was meant to be a 60’s version of Ghost. Not representative of their current metal sound. Picking up fans based off MOTC , was essentially false advertising and has changed the fandom in a negative way. I wish we could go back to before TikTok. I know I’m gatekeeping but I’m fine with that, frankly. I love my dark and delicious ghost. Not Austin Powers ghost and its 12 year old ‘fans’ I love Ghost and always will, but sometimes it’s a tough call.
The band has changed and I have accepted that. I still love the lore and the music, but I haven’t bought any shirts or merch in a while. I’m excited for the movie.
Me too. It will be my first time seeing them live
This
We need an OFFICIAL Ghost website for lore tbh.
That wiki is not maintained by us. It's its own thing. Our wiki is hosted here on the subreddit
At some point, being a Ghost fan became so fucking embarrassing
It was when all the tik tokers found out about the band. Now it’s music for kids that are rebelling.
For real, I got into Ghost because I really enjoyed their music and thought their stage presence was amazing, with the theatrics and loose lore. Thought the idea of the frontman being changed for each album cycle was really interesting. I'm not the oldest fan, I knew of them for years, but never gave them a listen until I heard Square Hammer and fell into this rabbithole. Ghost is still one of my favorite bands, but part of the fandom has gotten a bit cringe. Same goes for any band that makes it big.
Exactly correct. It makes me sad!
I got a Ghost tattoo after Infestissumam hit so hard and now I regret so bad
Somebody referred to the upcoming “ghovie” 🤮
There are genders now???
Babe wake up, new gender just dropped.
I don't get why it matters? It's what the younger fans call themselves, you can be called Congregation or Ghesties it doesn't matter as long as you like the band if you're really that mad over a word, maybe you should take some time for yourself
Eh I do like ghoul(m) ghuleh(nb) ghoulette(f) but isn't congregation from Ritual?? Feels like it'd be more canon if it was that :o
Ghuleh is female.
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I'm a woman and consider myself a ghoul. Why do we have to bring gender into it?
ghoul isnt gendered. some people want to be referred to by the more feminine term tho. thats their choice. ghoul itself isnt male in my opinion its j a ghoul. like a ghost or spirit. ghoulette is inherently feminine tho bc some ppl wanted a feminine term for themselves. dont ask me abt bringing gender into it. i didnt make up the terms
F has always been ghuleh. It’s referenced in zombie queen.
Lol I've been a fan since 2011. Go listen to the song Zombie Queen. Ghuleh is female.
Late to the battle, but glad to see this has been taken care of 😤
"ghestie" is literally so damn ugly idc if it's a mix of ghoul/ghost + bestie like GHOSTIE IS ALREADY THEREEEE
i think testie is in there somewhere too lmaoo
The ghouls are the musicians who play with Papa. 💀 I’m not a Ghestie’s fan. I like sticking to the (now seemingly “old school” 😂) Sister/Sibling of Sin or the congregation. But at least ghestie is a name for fans.
It's cuz of TikTok.
I really dislike when this fandom leans into gender roles... as a RULE. Feels very... "conservative." The opposite of what Ghost is about.
God, right??? I was drawn to ghost as a band back in 2016 for their amazingly brash and campy middle finger to organized religion while writing sick classic metal music. The “lore” of the band being a fun background fun little thing was just a nice bonus. But with all of these new fans, it’s turning into a tumblr fandom where the lore and characters are becoming more important than they originally were.
This issue has nothing to do with lore. In fact, what you're saying is part of the problem. Just let people be who they want to be, let them enjoy the fandom the way they want to enjoy it, and stop trying to police identity and enjoyment.
What's the big fuss about? You are a fan of Ghost, there you go, let's move on
Because neurodivergent teenagers are incapable of being fans of any form of media in their own harmless way without being bullied by gatekeeping adults, that’s why. Every other social media platform’s Ghost community has been so welcoming to anyone and everyone; I have no clue what’s up with Reddit.
I'm okay with ghestie to be honest, someone explain why everyone hates on the term?
Ghestie is an insult for fake fans.
- A Nameless Ghoul
I swear every time I happen to come here there’s a post bitching about the same thing. Why can’t fans just refer to themselves however they want to instead of it being a huge fight? Who cares what other people do? I’d rather spend my time listening to Ghost and consuming the content I enjoy than whining about meaningless shit like this.
Aren’t Ghoul (m), Ghuleh (NB) and Ghoulette (f)
The word ghoul is from the Arabic Ghul, an evil spirit that robs graves. Ghuleh is the female form. Ghoulette is made up for Ghost fans.
Made up by Ghost fans*. It refers to the musicians, not the fans.
Is Ghoulette used by the band itself ? I remember hearing Copia use the word for the ghoul introductions in If You Have Ghost during rituals but it could just be me mishearing (me not being native English + Copia's accent + mic echoes)
Unpopular opinion: Fans don't think they are... but many fans disrespect the ghouls. This is a great example. "Ghouls" are the musicians and they are also nameless for a reason.
Normies again...
Not me. I would be okay with parishioner, congregant, supplicant, motherf!%*#r, spectrophillians and a whole host of other things that doesn't sound like we're so unoriginal as to copy off of Taylor Swift fans. I got nothing against Taylor but this is freaking lazy. Edited: for spelling error
I don't really pay attention to stuff like this... I prefer to just be a fan. But I agree that Ghoul and Ghoule/Ghoulette should be reserved for the musicians on srage portraying as such.
Man I miss when the band members were just known as ghouls/ghule.
Bro wtf
Ya'll really out here trying to judge how some people are fans smh
Y’all just can’t have fun can you?? It’s just a nickname no one is making you use it
is this really deserving of so much vitriol? don’t y’all have jobs? literally who cares. go outside.
Anything but Ghestie pls. *sigh* 😑
So if we are spectating in a ritual of ghouls and ghost, why not call us the Spectres? One of my favorite words.
I don’t mind it that much, but my burlesque persona is literally a Ghuleh/Sister of Sin type beat bitch so 😂
Or you may be know as a GFF!
Imma start saying Ghestie to freak y'all out 😂 jk!
let’s just be ghosts
We are Toblerones, Forginites, or Ghostinians
Why does everybody hate the term ghestie actually? What did I miss 😭 Edi: ohmygod I'm just asking a question. Why are people downvoting a question
Congregation was the actual term, due to the band being a satanic cult and that. Ghestie was a name given by the TikTok crew which, alongside some other things that downplayed the occult vibe the band had, repulses those of us which follow the band from earlier in its career
I was gona say. Those of us from before the tiktok days who are older than 19 aren't fans of "Ghestie" Not tryna gatekeep, y'all do what you want and have fun! The term to me is just a little weird.
Trust me, there are people from after Ghost met TikTok that aren't fans of "ghestie" either. Source: I'm one of them. Then again, I'm already 36, not 19, so maybe that's why...
I discovered Ghost through Tiktok but I HATE the name Ghestie.
I've actually been a fan since Opus! I think Ghestie can be a very sweet term, especially for younger fans. Edit: Why are y'all downvoting people who are just stating opinions or asking questions? Were you not all young fans of something once? Would you have liked someone to have rained on your parade when you were young and enjoying things? That's the reason I think Ghestie is endearing. It's just young fans being young and having fun, no harm in it. Yes I know some like ghouls, the congregation, and ghostie--I do too. But is there any harm in having fun with a fun band?
I agree!
It’s harmless, but it’s a bit jarring for fans who have been following the band for longer because that wasn’t a widely used name for fans until more recent years. I remember when we were the congregation or siblings/brothers/sisters of sin. Ghestie is too childish for me, so I feel uncomfortable using it. I’m not a teen or in my early twenties anymore (but no shade to anyone over 25+ who likes it). I don’t want to rain on anyone’s parade though, so I really don’t care about the fans who like it. To each their own. It’s harmless. But it’s misinformation that it’s the official fan name, which some people seem to believe. There is no “official” name for the fan base.
Thank you for this! It's refreshing to see a negative reaction to it without it being so blown out of proportion. I don't like the term either (for essentially the same reasons) but I couldn't care less if other people do. It doesn't hurt me. It literally doesn't affect me at all. My self image doesn't rely on what other fans of the same band I love call themselves, y'know? lol
There are a lot of posts here about it... search the sub for that word and you'll see why most of us hate it.
I kinda think it’s cute 😭
Hand over your Grucifix... you're outta the congregation! 🤣
Been a Ghost fan since Opus. Still a Ghost fan. Names are meaningless. Ghost is anti-dogma, and anti establishment. Stop trying to make established dogma.
Lol watch these little goof balls have a panic attack cause their feelings were assaulted 🤣
Honestly, I'm okay with any name for the fans... Anything but Ghestie. 😑
Honestly, I'm okay with any name for the fans... Anything but Ghestie. 😑
Papa up there on stage, throwing a big shout out to his Ghesties
TikTok fans: Ghesties.
What about non-binary and Genderqueer friends?
That’s why we are the congregation.
Ghey/Ghem
Gonst
I want to know why people are downvoting you. Ghost is a band that are very open about supporting trans people.
Probably because everyone is included in a congregation, regardless of these esoteric factors
I have no clue honestly. I don't really care for upvotes or down votes. I have noticed people in this subreddit seem to be very sensitive, but who knows.
ghoulette is an inherently feminine term but ghoul isnt. ghoul is just like a ghost or wtv. and as the other commenter said. thats why we the congregation
I think that's why they added ghestie?
Remember when Ghost was actually focused on making good music?
Not sure why people are so butthurt by a fan-made nickname. Who cares? Let them do their thing. It has zero effect on anyone’s day-to-day.
The amount of pointless pissiness on his sub is honestly depressing. Tobias wants this fanbase to be “a safe space for the ‘weird kids’”, yet said weird kids get bullied and mocked by full grown adults on here all because of a stupid harmless nickname, and people in this thread committing the crime of telling others to lighten up a little are being downvoted to oblivion. I’ve even seen people say they hate it because it sounds “too autistic”, which is fucking wild. Even the TWITTER Ghost community is more appealing than this. The only reason I stick around this sub is for news; but people getting this butthurt over something so silly makes me want to block it entirely
You've gotten downvoted but I agree with you.
Ghost’s concerts literally end with Papa telling us all to take care of each other lol.
Damn y'all some fragile mf's Edit: lol.
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You really came here and decided to be ableist for no reason, huh? How about you go and try doing some growing up and then you might understand basic human emotions like empathy.
Who cares? Why are you bothered by this to the extent that you make a thread about it. People are fans of things in different ways. Lighten tf up.
this is so funny I love this. I'm gonna start calling my ghost fan friends my ghesties
why do yall hate ghestie so much lmao weve used that word for years dont take everything so seriously its just fun its more ironic that anything
Years? Hardly... It's always been the congregation. Ghestie reminds me so much of Swiftie that it hurts
No one has used that for years don’t kid yourself
People have opinions. That’s all. The older popular names for the fan base was the congregation and siblings/brothers/sisters of sin, which makes sense thematically. It’s silly to get wound up over it, though. Ghestie is too childish for me (this seems to by why other people seem to dislike it), but there’s no harm in anyone using it. There needs to be less posts about it.
I’ve been a fan for 6 years and it’s always been the congregation. Ghestie was mostly used on Twitter and TikTok… it’s utter cringe
Ghestie...... If the majority of you think that that's an acceptable term, then it'll be my mission to find one that is significantly less cringey. Most of y'all must've come from TikTok.
Ghestie ❤️
Idk but just saw in the Fandom of my region someone using it and I was like, okay but why you're calling us all ghesties? I just want to be a nameless brat ghoulette... I don't want to be a ghestie it doesn't sound that cool. Better yet, they call us "Children of the world" just let it that way, we can be brat children of the world, WHY. GHESTIES.???? or just MF and FF!