I mean look, I have a 3D printer. It lets me do some very cool unique minis that GW doesn't sell, and often at a far lower cost, even when accounting for maintenance and material costs. I've already saved myself about $200 my currency in mini prints (mainly knights) which I think is super neat.
But consistent quality? Ease of use? Safety? Those are not attached to the hobby. I have failures constantly, both my printers are currently out of action due to maintenance issues (and my own incompetence lol), and getting a half-decent print requires a dedicated space with toxic chemicals and full PPE to use safely. It's absolutely a fun hobby for me, but it is its own hobby. If you're looking to assemble and paint consistently high-quality minis without the stress of trying to draw them forth from the primordial resin soup, I would 100% recommend buying them store-bought, especially if you're like me and still like the simple joy of physically putting the minis together.
Store-bought and 3D printed aren't two competing forces, they're two halves of the same hobby.
This is 100% my feeling as well. I also have a 3D printer and use it to print all kinds of neat stuff that I want to paint. However, it's a way bigger hassle and more costly than YouTubers make it seem. Buying a printer is less than half the cost involved, resin isn't cheap, extra FEP sheets, spare parts, cleaning chemicals, curing setups, gloves (my god the gloves..), and on and on. That's not too mention the significant space it takes up, the additional stuff you need to vent the setup sufficiently, the risk of volatile chemical spills in your home and on yourself, the considerable time and skill required to support and slice the prints properly (I had to learn to use a minimum of three different softwares to set up a print file properly, and often five or six if I'm customizing stuff) and the fact that you still have to wait hours, then potentially have to assemble and glue it together like you would a purchased kit anyways. Then there's always going to be these very very very fine layer lines at a certain angle that can be annoying if you drybrush or the paint has any shine at all to it. And then there's the occasional failure of a print than can make a mess of everything. And after all that, prints are generally far more brittle than GW plastic. Instead of maybe some chipped paint when dropped, they snap apart.
It's a fun aspect to the hobby, but don't let people convince you that it's easy, cheap, or objectively better than buying minis from the store. It's not. Clipping apart sprues and building models is fun to me and I can't see myself stopping buying kits that I think are cool. GW may be a big bad corporation that squeezes its fanbase more than we feel appropriate, but they do provide a fantastic quality product that is safe (even for kids), easily available, and as nice looking as anything else in the market.
Don't buy a printer because you think you'll save money. Maybe you will, maybe you won't. Who knows.. The better reason to buy a printer is because you want to print a lot of stuff that is only available in STL. There's tons (TONS) of great artists making stunning STLs that are a joy to paint and make beautiful display pieces. There's the availability of bits and bases and customization options for your collections. There's the ability to custom sculpt your own stuff and build narrative dioramas that tell stories you want to tell. Those are the reasons I bought one. It cost close to $500 for my setup, and I know I still need to spend hundreds more to make it more user friendly, safe, and efficient than it currently is.
One topic about this. I also have a 3D printer, made from MESBG to a Dimachaeron, and one abolute truth:
I'm 100% to do all this sticky, shadow-costed topics than spend HOURS cleaning horrible mould lines on the awful, mono-pose miniatures from ages ago.
(Speaking from the point of view of someone who is painting a Minas Tirith army, and printed a Harad one with lots of cavarly and camels)
Yeah, for MESBG I definitely agree. Those old minis are a hard pill to swallow in the modern age. Same goes for old WHF models. 3d printing is a great solution for proxy models in old games that have either out of print or seriously dated minis.
Again, there's great reasons to 3d print, but I wouldn't count "saving money" as one of them.
Yeah I have a decent 3d printer, but I wouldn't recommend it for the average person at the moment. I mostly use it for upgrades rather than full models
I’ve been thinking about getting one but for terrain only. I have my own 4x6 table and my own mat with enough armies to play at home against someone borrowing one of mine. Only thing I lack is terrain. I’m a huge fan of trenches and ruined buildings like the new Aegis Defense Line GW released, but it’s a pricy option for getting 3-4 of those boxes for what I’m wanting it for. That would be the only thing I’d get a printer for.
And no one ever mentions the toxic byproducts or fumes, I guess you just learn about that the hard way, or don’t learn and in 10 years we will see what was a better investment
Do what makes you happy amiright? But also when you do your math factor in the cost of a decent 3D printer and the value of your time plus the space needed to run it. I’m all about 3d printing but let’s not pretend it doesn’t have any costs outside of the resin.
I agree the prices kinda suck, so do what makes you happy. Cheers!!
It varies from person to person. Ive printed probably thousands worth of models for less than ONE thousand...but ive also probably put in enough part time work post processing, cleaning resin, replacing FEP sheets, tearing my hair out over print fails etc. Ive probably spent a couple hundred on STLs too. So its not like "ah, its cheap and easy" like some make it sound...but damn it IS worth it if you put the time in.
I used to just buy cheap 2nd hand models off of EBay or other places like that. Sometimes they are put together badly or have a shitty paint job but it's easy to just strip that off. You can find some crazy fucking good deals sometimes, I got 5 leman russ and 2 hellhounds for about 80 dollars once. They were even magnetized!
Until you buy from some moron who basecoated with enamels, and there’s basically nothing that will take off the paint without melting the plastic.
Still totally worth it though
I recently tried using isopropyl instead of simple green and the difference was night and day for me. Isopropyl works wo much better for my purposes, but I’m glad you have something that works for you.
It's funny cause I have 99% iso on hand all the time cause I do resin art and never once thought about trying it out. I am just an old man who's habits die hard.
It's actually so nice to buy a model that's already been assembled and sometimes primed. I thought I enjoyed making them but it's so much better imo to just be able to jump straight into prime and paint.
Dude my saturn s hasnt been calibrated since i got it back in november, people make it seem way more complicated than it is. my machine was pretty plug and play
I think most people have experience with the Ender 3, which can be a huge pain in the ass and is the exact opposite of plug and play since you have to assemble the thing.
Actually I have both resin (mars 3pro) and ender 3 and it's pretty much unbelievable how much easier resin printing is for long term operation. Yes it's more complicated in some ways because of safety, but if you do some basic thinking about how it will work before you buy it and find a well ventilated area for it, it doesn't compare to the ender 3. I literally only print bases and large terrains on it lately and have to calibrate for 20 minutes every time I want to print.
If I go to print minis, I have a whole silly ritual (I print on an Ender3 clone)
One brand of PLA that I trust for high detail.
Carefully adjusting model details in blender to make for a better print.
Load carefully tuned Cura profile, go through all settings to make sure it's just right.
Manually add supports if needed.
Freshly formatted SD card with just the gcode I intend to run.
Check and adjust belt tension.
Atomic Pull cleaning on the hotend, twice.
Clean the glass plate and apply a thinned PVA solution. (elmers white glue and water 2:1)
Preheat to PLA temp, including bed (dries thinned PVA)
Level the bed, make at least 3 stops at each corner.
Print!
Prusa mk3. Jam SD card full to the brim of random stuff done with default prusa slicer settings, wipe dust off the plate with your hand, use whatever filament was left in from last print, hit go.
The only issues I've run into are with things like small articulated models that have a ton of tiny individual pieces that print first. One inevitably pops up and wrecks it, but I'm sure that could be fixed with care to the build surface.
When I was looking to get one my friends all asked, do you want to print stuff as a hobby or do you want the printer to be the hobby. I chose printing stuff. I haven't used it for 40k yet. I should go make a bunch of terrain
I think people confuse printing minis with owning a printer. I'm a painter not a player and I have a bunch of both GW models and printed models and printed models are definitely cheaper than GW stuff. Even high quality stuff is usually cheaper, ESPECIALLY for single models. GW has to price their models based on points value because it's a game first and foremost but I don't care that this birdperson can pull a meteor down on your Orks... i just wanna paint cool shit.
3d printing is a mystical, magical thing that makes this hobby 10x better.
I mean it can pay itself off pretty quickly.
A Saturn 2 is \~$500.
I can print roughly 2 baneblades for 1kg of resin, or $30. A new baneblade is roughly $180. So I have a net (personal) gain of $310 for those 2 baneblades (which I'm actually printing right now, lmao).
I can also print around 10 full Cadian Shock squads for 1kg of resin, easily. So $320 net gain right there.
So for $560, resin and a printer, I've already been able to print roughly $780 worth of minis, and that's gonna keep shooting up. Let's just say $100 for roughly all the other supplies (UV light, pickle bucket, bulk IPA, some scalpels) and even then it's $560 for $780, and that's gonna keep getting better since I don't need to replace the printer.
And the saturn 2 is top of the line for shit like this. You could get a solid printer for WAY cheaper. But, economically, a 3d printer is just the way to go. Roughly, a full guard army runs ***$1,150.*** 8x base squads, 2x castellans, 1x leontus, 6x sentinels, 3x leman russ, 2x atillan. Lays a great foundation for most 2k armies.
I can print that for $200 of resin easily, just running the # off the top of my head, and then $500 for the printer? I just saved $650 bucks.
I just used the Saturn 2 because (1) it's what I have and (2) it's what's in the pic, so it's a good reference for the debate.
That's why I mentioned cheaper printers. I have a Saturn 2 because I design Warhammer models for money and I need a big print space for test prints.
you can pick up a semi decent resin printer for a couple hundred these days, less second hand.
resin is only about 30 per litre.
how many minis could you get for 250?
and of course you can print other things too. my mrs concluded the money i spent on my printers was well spent after i printed new brackets for the shelves in the fridge, which you cannot buy for any price anywhere and saved us having to buy a new fridge. then i printed her a jewellery box shaped like the luggage from the discworld books, and she has a baby pink legolini repeating slingbow.
she is now completely onboard with any money i want to spend on the printers. they pay for themselves.
if the mrs is on board, youre onto a winner.
Honestly if you have a bracket in your fridge and it breaks you may as well by a 3D printer because it’ll probably be less than buying a new bracket… it’s such a rip off.
thats the point. i could not buy the bracket, they dont sell them anywhere for any price. i could either macguyver it with something, which is not an option i like in the place i keep my food or buy a new fridge.
plenty of other examples of small irreplaceable bits around the house that can be thrown together with a vernier gauge and an hour or two on tinkercad.
the printer paid for itself with half a dozen small prints that took a few hours, so any minis from that point onward really did only cost resin.
I’m pretty sure GW has the weird-ass assembly like the 3 pieces to make a cape as a way to minimize mold lines and spruce gates being in visible parts of the model. Obviously a huge advantage of 3D printing is that you don’t have to deal with either of those issues, but modern plastic minis are *much* better at hiding mold lines compared to before they started using CAD-sculpted molds in the mid-2000s
I have a 3D printer and while I love the creative freedom, the upkeep and hassle of the whole thing means I almost never use it. Most of the time I just kitbash with GW bits which I find more satisfying than working with resin.
Said it before, I’ll say it again. Nothing against 3d printing itself, the actual fact that it’s a thing is basically magic to me, but you 3d printer owners are the fucking vegans of this hobby.
May basic response to a lot of this, is that this is the price of having a game that isn't manufactured by a country with cheap labour. (Except for printing of packaging)
Yes other companies manufacture their game in not cheap labour countries, but GW has their own distribution and network of stores.
I'm not happy about GW pricing. but I look at it as the reality of paying for a luxury item manufactured in western society.
It reminds me of Apple products. The items are already a premium for what they are, but what if I were to produce all the Apple products in America?
Thank you for this comparison, so many times have I been criticised for not buying into the printer side if things.
But that to me isn't the hobby I wanted to get into, also I don't care enough about individual parts to print them out. Most printerbros that have tried to convince me end up saying "aw but you'd have to buy ten boxes of [X] model just to get enough [X] weapons for a squad"
As someone yet to play but loves painting and collecting I don't see why I need converting or why when playing you can't just say to your gaming group, "yo those dudes are actually holding plasma guns kay?"
Actually this is rather tame, normally militant vegans would insult you or call you a butcher while making a semi-accurate but still horribly disturbing comic about cows.
The meme is dumb too, like... why is the 3d printer guy proud of his army of monopose tactical marines. Really showing those gw buyers what they're missing out on...
There are many better ways to make a point than a low effort circlejerk post
Yes I feel like I’m missing out on monopose shitty sculpts made by some guy doing it part time and with half the detail or detail that only shows up on the STL but you can’t get to print right because your settings are off
Two buddies of mine are twins in their 40s and have been playing since they were kids. Between them they estimate they've spent about $250,000 on tabletop minis. They both still live with their widowed mother and don't have jobs right now..
The cost of the mini isn't in the mini, it's in the plate to make the mini. It's why they don't give a shit about handing out free kits to make up for the mildest of misprinted kits with next to no proof. Injecting a mold with plastic is cheap. Sculpting the model and then reducing it to bits and then casting the metal plates is an extremely expensive process.
Like, this is hazy memory from watching a 20 minute vid like 4 years ago, so take it with some salt, but...
The two part metal molds for injection plastic, they cost the 300+k to have made(I imagine sizes, and tolerances play a part here too, and to be fair GW plastic kits are very high tier). This is why as well, that individual characters in plastic often cost as much as an entire box of a unit.
It's also why plastic is a lot rarer in smaller companies, or like Mantic and Avatars Of War where they do plastic units and metal or resin heroes/characters.
When they have the molds paid for, plastic is so cheap, it's why they can give away free minis every month, or do things like the Conquest/Mortal Realms/Imperium magazines.
I'm actually surprised they don't give away a mini with each White Dwarf, really. Unimportant single from a unit, even(like the Intercessor in the getting started box). Alternate systems each month, have a 2 page spread on painting it in a classic scheme to suit whatever it is.
I work in manufacturing. A steel mold to create a plain, rectangular box is many thousands of dollars. The guy they pay to design the rectangular mold is probably making around $200k/yr. The mold itself will eventually start to wear down and need to be refurbished every couple years and the repairs are also expensive.
Now extrapolate that from a plain rectangular shape to an intricate, delicate design that gives you enough surface detail to be able to pick out the wires and knobs on a mini vehicle console. This stuff is not cheap to create and maintain.
>How are poor kids supposed to get into and enjoy the hobby?
Reading pirated lore, getting old models second hand, using cut outs. You don't have to get shiny artbooks or new model releases to enjoy the thing.
Can't believe I'm defending the corp here but come on
Like sure GW is far from perfect but I see a lot of these trash arguments to where it's pretty much the only logical conclusion to call out how dumb they are.
“How are poor kids supposed to get into and enjoy a hobby” Not by buying a 3D printer. I got started with this hobby by spending $20 to split the old kill team box with 3 intercessors and 3 reivers
Yea, poor kids should just buy a $300+ printer, learn how to operate it, print there minis, and spend even more on paints.
I get its good for you, but 3d printer dont make the hobby cheap, they make it slightly cheaper. Someone with genuine money problems would be much better off buying 1 kit and playing killteam
Most resin printers over here cost upwards of 1500 NZD not to mention the cost of resin (and the fumes) or repairs
3d printers are useful but only if you have the time and know how to operate one effectively something that most kids and teens don't have
3D printing is very much an investment and a hobby of its own. 3D print stans will tell you it’s super easy and no hassle, but that’s not true at all.
When you buy a £30 box of GW models you just open it up, clip the pieces off and clean the mold lines and you’re ready to build and paint.
When you want to 3D print you have to make sure your plates fine, you’ve got enough resin for the print, your settings are correct, you’ve got find or make the right model, get it scaled to the correct size, make sure it’s supported correctly, wait potentially hours (or days) for it to print, have the chance of realising something went wrong and have to redo the whole process over again, clean up a model that’s gone well (remove a excess resin, clean it, fill any potential bubbles/gaps...), then finally after all that you’ve stuck it to GW by spending hours or days on what you could of gotten from a quick drive to your local game store.
This isn’t to say those who want to shouldn’t get a 3D printer, they’re great, but they’re not a directly replacement - they should be something you use along side GW models (they’re great for bases, conversion bits, terrain if you have a filament printer, etc)
4X revenue doesn't mean a ton, did they quadruple their profits too? They sell more products and sell them to more customers than in 2014 so more revenue is to be expected.
And wages and production/material costs increased and as they produce in the UK locally only (except for printed media) production and wages already were higher than for some made in china company
My main gripe about 3D printing is 99% of STLs feel like knockoffs. I don’t want to be playing Warmace 4000, I want my models to feel and look like 40k. Occasionally you get someone who makes almost 1-to-1 copies of stuff, which are 3D prints I’d be happy to use, but most just feel so *off*.
It also doesn’t help most printable sculpts are even less posable then modern GW ones, and that’s saying something.
It really depends on the model. A large amount of STLs are nearly 1/1 to the GW models which I kinda like because it makes them easier to identify what their doing, and what they are.
Also depending on the maker you can have a single folder have around 18 different heads, leg positions, arms ect. But I do agree, when I can print out a 700p kreig army for half the price of a tech engineer it does feel like cheasing it.
But I also like the other creative side. 3D printing unlocks a whole the side of 40K customisation. I bought the makers cult Universal guard, Ogyrn mechs and Battle walkers and I run them as a kind of Cadian shock troops meats clone troopers proxy. All original models but they fill in the gaps where GW misses. And 80% of the time people will be fine playing against them. Especially if you take the time to paint them.
Like the customisation for models is insane, I bought a second hand knight and I felt something was missing so I found a lion head shoulder pad and it made the whole model so much better.
Okey man. I bite.
I am a poor guy, I not earning that much. But to be honest with you. I don't find the GW pricing that horrible. And I collecting 3 army (Around of 3000 points of necron, A growing Blades of Khorne army around of 2000 points, and has a small GSC army) and I not finding those prices too expensive. Sure as hell they are not cheap, but here is the thing. You don't need to buy your whole fucking army in one go. You can buy them in smaller packs and expand the army later on.
Yeah prices could be lower, yeah GW could raise the pay check of the employess. But whenever I see this post the only thing that I can think is that for some reason people want to buy the newest meta army in one go, instead of slowly exploring what they like in the hobby and growing their army little by little.
I’m 19 years old, I work at a Subway part-time (around 18 hours a week, including tips I make around $16/hr) and I’m going to a small college in the South of the US. I live at home with my parents, I save 40% of every paycheck to go into my college/study abroad fund. That remaining 60% (~160 USD/week) pays for gas, food when I eat out with the friends, the occasional date that turns out to be way too expensive and goes nowhere, and Warhammer. I don’t have a lot of time to assemble my models, right now I’ve only bought two boxes—the Space Marines boarding patrol and a box of regular Intercessors.
The pricing honestly isn’t that bad. I feel like averaging $5-10 USD a model isn’t terrible, it takes a lot of time for me to assemble the models because I just don’t have a lot of time to assemble them, and I haven’t even thought about painting them yet. When you’re assembling 3 models a week maximum, it takes a lot of time to get through it all. It’s a fun little hobby that gets me through several months at a time with a 100 dollar investment.
Yeah, sometimes I spend $20 on a movie ticket, and I get 2 and a half hours of enjoyment out of that, sometimes I spend $60 on ten models that’ll take me 6 weeks to assemble all of them, plus they look pretty in the box I keep them in, and when I’m laying in bed listening to a podcast because I’m too tired to get up and do anything, it’s fun to imagine how running a game with them would look.
Fuck man - sometimes I just daydream of having some astra militarum all-in with valks, tanks and artillery while also imagining fortunate son playing. It's just cathartic in some goofy way.
I know, right? I plan on playing White Scars, just because they seem fun, but my dream army is Astra Militarum. I want to do a massive horde of infantry—no tanks, maybe a baneblade just because they look cool (but only so that I have one, not even for the game). I don’t even really want to play competitively, I just want me and a few friends to make a bunch of terrain pieces and play on a massive map and just have fun with it
It really isn't that bad, and claiming you have to go into debt to own a small army is hilariously hyperbolic. Also, they can justify the cost because that's what people are willing to pay for it. It's pretty simple economics.
Yup. I started in this hobby when I had much less money than now, so I just bought one box at a time. The collection built up over the years and I was eventually able to buy more if I wanted, but the core principle of not overxteending works for anyone.
And if you really truly can't afford the hobby...then maybe reading lore and grinding for a better career in the meanwhile is the more reasonable move.
Oh yeah, I bet a good 50% of all existing GW models on earth are in the hands of well intentioned hobbyists at any given moment, still in box.
I'm guilty myself, but this year I'm pushing to at least assemble, trim, and prime 100% of my collection before I can buy any new boxes.
Frankly people do not know how much effort, time, and money goes into creating a cast the quality of the ones GW sells.
It's not even close to comparable to something 3d printed in terms of cost.
How it compares in quality is besides the point - the fact is they're not making all that much money on the models. Their margin is in the books.
Totally agree. I got into 3D-Printing after already being in the hobby for 15 years. I use it mostly for small stuff like bits, shoulderpads and so on. That is because I see it as an addition to the skills in building, kitbashing and sculpting things by hand, that I have accquired over those years.
And the thing is, those printers can be used outside of Warhammer aswell. I am part of a small DnD group. I recently printed our party for our in-person-finale. Alongside viele villains and minions. All that painting I could do because of my Prior experience. Even build a gaming board with terrain making skills from when we only had scraps of styrofoam.
Oh god, I have become a gaming boomer....
TL DR, I see 3D printing as an enrichment to the existing hobby. It can help in personalization and thats all a hobby is about.
All the memes about pricing are just hurting the hobby at this point. I have friends that wanna start but have seen the memes about the prices and think it’s totally out of reach for them despite them making more money than me. People just have spending problems and buy $1000 worth of models all at once and then complain it’s the pricing and not their desire to buy a 2000 point army with flex units all at once.
The one thing I don't understand is why do people keep saying GW treats their workers like shit? From what I have read most have had a pretty good time working for GW? The only bad feedback has come from people who have had issues with their local shop bosses being butts or somesuch (which hasn't been all that common too).
The last time I personally knew a GW manager was back in the early 2000’s. It “seems” that they were treated better back then compared to now.
Pay? Hearsay, but I keep hearing average. 🤷♂️
Benefits? No clue. Maybe someone can fill us in.
GW previously had multiple employees working at a single store ( in the US). Now, it seems they have 1 employee per store ( manager I assume ) and they work 6 days a week. I have been in that position ( not with GW ). It leads to burn out. Maybe GW does something special? I don’t know. But it doesn’t sound healthy to me.
The benefits are deffo very good? Like GW having awesome benefits based on overall sales (which has led to a lot of big bonuses) been something many have been jelly over.
Can't comment on the US market because ...well, US work-stuff is scary in general x)!
edit: Oh, I see, actual answer from a worker here as well! Great.
To copy my other comment.
They don't pay their store employees poorly. I was a store employee. After bi annual bonuses I made more money than any other part time employee at the mall. And their benefits for full timers are really good. Plus 50% off the models, and the managers/one person store owners get even better. The manager pay is not average, it's damn fine.
We dont care that you use a 3d printer we get it
Seriously you are arguing against a stereotype that barely exists of gw purists most people don't care
I will start off with saying that minis of any high quality are going to cost some cash. I cannot argue that GW makes some gorgeous models. And no, they are not cheap. Another company that makes cool minis is Wyrd. Also, not cheap. They just don't seem as bad because they are for skirmish games instead of army games.
To be fair, Wargames Atlantic is making some great stuff for a significantly lower cost to the consumer. But are they as crazy detailed as GW? Nope. Fantastic for what they are, though. Same with Perry Miniatures.
As 3d printing goes, i only have an FDM printer. I have printed some decent minis on it, but nothing mind blowing.
But ibcan definitelyplay games with them and i can print an army for pennies on the dollar.
OP, you ask how poor kids can get into the hobby. Well, warhammer isnt the whole hobby. Tabletop wargaming has a plethora of options. If you want something affordable, Warhammer is not it. If you want something with good rules, Warhammer is not it. If someone wants to play 40k with better rules, then there are the OPR games, Star Breach, and i think the Rampant trilogy. You want giant stompy robots? Battletech is there. You want crazy skirmish wargames you have Frost Grave, Star Grave, Space Weirdos, Forbidden psalm, Zona Alpha, and so many more. If a person does not want to support GW, they really dont have to.
I did printed terrain when i had the old Ender 3 (PLA) and i have to say it's not worth it, it takes forever and me and my group switched to TTCombat sets since then.
If you print terrain in resin you are either rich or a maniac or both.
Also find that GW minis are generally higher quality, and the good STLs are not free. That said, the amount of time and effort it takes for printing vs getting a model kit sometimes makes getting the model kit more worth it.
The paid STLs are really wort it and you can get basically the same level of dettail. My problem with printed resin is that it's brittle, drop the mini from 5cm and it cracks, try to smooth some imperfection with the hobby knife and, if you don't accidentally snap the bit, you get resin dust everywere.
GW plastic is a plesure to work with in comparison.
I've seen people have some great results mixing in some tough/tenacious resin with the high-quality fast resin. Like, bouncing off the floor type of tough. I'm trying it out myself this weekend.
Yeah I love my 3d printer but the biggest drawback is definitely working with resin. It's brittle, the dust is toxic and it needs super glue. It's better than pewter (lighter, no drilling or pinning) and about the same as GW resin (which is softer but warps terribly), but much less friendly than plastic.
Still worth it for the freedom and price imo.
And you need another hobby space for the printer and materials. Time at the computer, away from the paint table. Deal with fumes.
Yes, it is cheaper. But you get yourself an entire giant hobby to facilitate a giant hobby.
3d printed components are the happy middle ground. I recently painted a squad of Blood Ravens Intercessors, and holy crap having 3d printed shoulder pads with actual physical insignias made things *soooooo* much easier.
Curious what printer and settings you're using. Not meant to be a gotcha but I did an experiment with a control vs experiment test after printing and no one could really point to anything that made it obvious which was a printed marine
*It’s over GWshills, I have already depicted you as the Nerd and me as the Chad!*
Like, okay man. Sheesh. Most people here have nothing against 3D printing itself, it’s the “3d printer goes brrrr” *ad nauseam* and the sense of superiority that inevitably comes with it that annoys everyone.
GW paid every member of their staff a £5000 bonus during Covid, just a straight up cash bonus, because they had done so well that year.
You tell me any other high street employer that would do something like that.
You forget the countless hours people work making rules, lorestories, artwork and build the world and setting. Those guys have to be paid as well and without them the hobby would quickly die due to stagnation.
The Mars printer range goes from 150 - 500, the cheapest option is more than enough for printing tabletop minis https://www.elegoo.com/collections/mars-series
Resin, depending on the brand and properties, can go between 15 - 40, I prefer Elegoo ABS like grey, which are around 30 https://www.amazon.com/ELEGOO-UV-Curing-Standard-Photopolymer-Printing/dp/B07P6W5L8P/ref=sr_1_15?keywords=3d+printing+resin&qid=1679026737&sr=8-15
Other equipment includes a respirator, replacement filters, nitrile gloves, paper towels, isopropyl alcohol, and screen covers for the printer. Prices vary depending on usage.
Other consumables not mentioned: Isopropyl, masks, gloves, and FEPs. It's still cheaper than buying GW minis all the time, but people don't really talk about all the other stuff you need.
What mainly annoys me is the people who go "buya3dprinterbuya3dprinterbuya3dprinter" every time someone mentions prices, like yeah, I get it, it's cheaper to print the minis, but you actually have to buy a printer, buy the stuff to print with, and I've heard that malfunctions and misprints are painfully common, it just seems like a lot of hassle and again, the "Church of the 3d Printer" people annoy me
You’d be correct. 3D printers are great, but they’re not just “push button, model comes out”
For a box of GW models you just open the box, clip them off, clean the mold lines and you’re good to go.
For a 3D printer there’s a bunch of extra things to do, you have to wait hours or days for them to print (depending on printer and print size) and the chance of it looking crap because your setting was *slightly* off is decent. It’s a whole hobby on it’s own, which personally I’m all for but it’s not as simple as “Just 3D print, bro”
BUT WOULD YOU THINK ABOUT THE KIDS??????????
Seriously though, I've been in warhammer since 2018. As a poor student back then I could buy like a box a month, so I would buy resin kits and 3d printed stuff because it was cheaper. The quality was always worse than plastic, I had to work with toxic dangerous materials, paint would scratch later on, and certain minis were off the table for me because resin would never be able to not break on something like drukhari all the time. Back then I was building up my armies through stuff like birthday gift money and stuff. And even then I was able to build up 2 armies up to 2k points each.
Now it's 2023, I have a decent job, and I can buy warhammer in plastic, and it's always worth it, it's so much better that resin.
Also, let me tell you - this hobby isn't ***that*** expensive. Have you tried building a paludarium for a big lizard? Buying new furniture? Musical instruments? Maybe you'd like to get into hiking and look at how much good equipment costs, like good hiking clothes, a tent, tools, a good backpack etc. Or shall we talk about the cost of buying a new console/PC and buying video games?
Middle of the road argument here. Firstly Warhammer miniatures are definitely either the best or close to the best miniatures available and their high price point reflects that quality. Also in the last decade they have definitely continued to improve the quality of their merchandise and customer engagement.
My complaints are:
1. They use predatory market practices like limited runs of goods and built in obsolescence.
2. They do bullshit like throwing in an extra spruce and charging 50% more.
3. The majority of the money goes to corporate instead of small businesses.
4. The extreme overreach in their ip protection. It’s one thing if someone’s pumping out ‘Spece Marines’ en-mass and selling them at massive reductions to undercut their business but attacking things that add to the narrative like small creative works by fans, additional customisation options they can’t or won’t stock and continuing product lines they’ve completely abandoned is BS especially for a ip that is itself highly derivative.
5. The fact that they regularly raise prices on account of the ‘cost of living’ is pure corporate greed. They’re making record profits, the cost increases are simply that they know they can milk more out of customers, not because they’re a small business struggling to pay staff.
Bruh. Fine. What’s the cost of a 3d printer that can print at GW quality. Oh and if it misprints, can it give a whole new squad for free? How are poor kids gonna buy that 3d printer? I think a $60 box of marines is a lot better of an initial cost than the hundreds of bucks needed for a printer of equal quality. Get real.
3d printing is significantly cheaper in the long run but only if you actually use it. If you're new to the hobby and want to pick up a starter box for 200 and know you'll be happy with it, a printer might not be worth your while.
If however you want to collect a bunch of models that are limited, hard to find, or you consider overpriced (titans, anything forgeworld), a midline printer will pay for itself quickly.
BUT! 3d printing is a hobby by itself, it's not just you press a button and the minis magically appear. You need to take time to learn slicing software as well as some 3d modeling for the inevitable broken STL or digital kitbashing.
Not to mention the health and safety hazards which I believe you should take very seriously, resin will fuck you up. Wear a respirator rated for organic gas, and wear nitrile gloves every. single. time.
The cost of consumables is, I find, negligible compared to what you're saving by printing models but it is another factor to consider.
Yeah sure the hobby could be cheaper but just say that. Don't go about poor kids like this is some kind of human rights issue. And if you go into debt for your hobby then that's honestly a you problem.
Again all power to you and the machine that goes Brrrr
Also the hobby is not that expensive compared to other things and the sculpts are really good
But you do your thing
Or Golf. Or Fishing, camping, Magic: The Gathering, being into more than 2 tabletop RPGs (I just got into GURPs and spent almost $300 on books), Lego, PC gaming, console gaming, hunting, kayaking, the list goes on...
Hell, my father spent thousands upon thousands of dollars on his model railroad layout in the 80s and 90s.
>How are poor kids supposed to get into and enjoy the hobby? People shouldn't be going into debt to participate.
The entitlement is real. Play with cut outs.
People always forget the cost of labor to manufacture and the cost to pay the 3d artist and the cost to pay the industrial designer to make the mold etcetc. They just value the minis by the weight of the plastic, then complain that *they* don't get paid enough at *their* job for *their* labor to afford to buy the miniatures, which are just "a few cents to make!"
???
Gw are still greedy jerks obv.
Everyone in my AOS league that is all about printing models plays with unpainted resin. The people who buy GW plastic play with painted or in-process painted armies. No one can tell me that 3D printing = effort.
I think it's because everything is done in the UK, even the manufacturing. So in a way they are employing local people as opposed to just having it all made in China etc. And the reason it is so expensive to pay people or to manufacture in UK is not GW's fault.
I do agree it is expensive. But I think it's important to consider the context.
this is a repost? maybe? I am not sure but I think I have seen the same exact meme before.
EDIT: nvmd, it's all clear, this is an "original" post, or as original as a soyjack vs chad meme can be.
They don't pay their store employees poorly. I was a store employee. After bi annual bonuses I made more money than any other part time employee at the mall. And their benefits for full timers are really good. Plus 50% off the models, and the managers/one person store owners get even better.
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When I prime inside my models move too
When i eat paint they even talk
we reply to you on reddit when you're not around
[GW, bring back the Squats 😡!](https://youtu.be/25NQQROXowM)
Brother they did. They renamed them the Leagues of Votann.
Tamiya x20A tastes better than any gw shit anyway.
Man I love inhaling Tamiya Extra Thin, really clears my nose
2000 iq, you don't even have to do the voices for them
(I still do the voices)
Do you hear the voices too?
I get it, but there’s something special about having your own little dudes that you assembled and painted yourself
Can you paint your armies in dawn of war? If not that's a huge missed opportunity
> Can you paint your armies in dawn of war? Yes, although it's only Base/Secondary/Detail layers IIRC
TBF, that’s good enough for 90% of armies
Orks orks orks orks
I mean look, I have a 3D printer. It lets me do some very cool unique minis that GW doesn't sell, and often at a far lower cost, even when accounting for maintenance and material costs. I've already saved myself about $200 my currency in mini prints (mainly knights) which I think is super neat. But consistent quality? Ease of use? Safety? Those are not attached to the hobby. I have failures constantly, both my printers are currently out of action due to maintenance issues (and my own incompetence lol), and getting a half-decent print requires a dedicated space with toxic chemicals and full PPE to use safely. It's absolutely a fun hobby for me, but it is its own hobby. If you're looking to assemble and paint consistently high-quality minis without the stress of trying to draw them forth from the primordial resin soup, I would 100% recommend buying them store-bought, especially if you're like me and still like the simple joy of physically putting the minis together. Store-bought and 3D printed aren't two competing forces, they're two halves of the same hobby.
This is 100% my feeling as well. I also have a 3D printer and use it to print all kinds of neat stuff that I want to paint. However, it's a way bigger hassle and more costly than YouTubers make it seem. Buying a printer is less than half the cost involved, resin isn't cheap, extra FEP sheets, spare parts, cleaning chemicals, curing setups, gloves (my god the gloves..), and on and on. That's not too mention the significant space it takes up, the additional stuff you need to vent the setup sufficiently, the risk of volatile chemical spills in your home and on yourself, the considerable time and skill required to support and slice the prints properly (I had to learn to use a minimum of three different softwares to set up a print file properly, and often five or six if I'm customizing stuff) and the fact that you still have to wait hours, then potentially have to assemble and glue it together like you would a purchased kit anyways. Then there's always going to be these very very very fine layer lines at a certain angle that can be annoying if you drybrush or the paint has any shine at all to it. And then there's the occasional failure of a print than can make a mess of everything. And after all that, prints are generally far more brittle than GW plastic. Instead of maybe some chipped paint when dropped, they snap apart. It's a fun aspect to the hobby, but don't let people convince you that it's easy, cheap, or objectively better than buying minis from the store. It's not. Clipping apart sprues and building models is fun to me and I can't see myself stopping buying kits that I think are cool. GW may be a big bad corporation that squeezes its fanbase more than we feel appropriate, but they do provide a fantastic quality product that is safe (even for kids), easily available, and as nice looking as anything else in the market. Don't buy a printer because you think you'll save money. Maybe you will, maybe you won't. Who knows.. The better reason to buy a printer is because you want to print a lot of stuff that is only available in STL. There's tons (TONS) of great artists making stunning STLs that are a joy to paint and make beautiful display pieces. There's the availability of bits and bases and customization options for your collections. There's the ability to custom sculpt your own stuff and build narrative dioramas that tell stories you want to tell. Those are the reasons I bought one. It cost close to $500 for my setup, and I know I still need to spend hundreds more to make it more user friendly, safe, and efficient than it currently is.
One topic about this. I also have a 3D printer, made from MESBG to a Dimachaeron, and one abolute truth: I'm 100% to do all this sticky, shadow-costed topics than spend HOURS cleaning horrible mould lines on the awful, mono-pose miniatures from ages ago. (Speaking from the point of view of someone who is painting a Minas Tirith army, and printed a Harad one with lots of cavarly and camels)
Yeah, for MESBG I definitely agree. Those old minis are a hard pill to swallow in the modern age. Same goes for old WHF models. 3d printing is a great solution for proxy models in old games that have either out of print or seriously dated minis. Again, there's great reasons to 3d print, but I wouldn't count "saving money" as one of them.
Yeah I have a decent 3d printer, but I wouldn't recommend it for the average person at the moment. I mostly use it for upgrades rather than full models
I’ve been thinking about getting one but for terrain only. I have my own 4x6 table and my own mat with enough armies to play at home against someone borrowing one of mine. Only thing I lack is terrain. I’m a huge fan of trenches and ruined buildings like the new Aegis Defense Line GW released, but it’s a pricy option for getting 3-4 of those boxes for what I’m wanting it for. That would be the only thing I’d get a printer for.
And no one ever mentions the toxic byproducts or fumes, I guess you just learn about that the hard way, or don’t learn and in 10 years we will see what was a better investment
Well said dude 🤙
I’ve got an FDM and PLA printer, and could not agree more.
Do what makes you happy amiright? But also when you do your math factor in the cost of a decent 3D printer and the value of your time plus the space needed to run it. I’m all about 3d printing but let’s not pretend it doesn’t have any costs outside of the resin. I agree the prices kinda suck, so do what makes you happy. Cheers!!
> Do what makes you happy amiright? that should be the motto of any hobby.
That's the point of any hobby,
How am I supposed to have fun if I can't police the fun of others?
This should be the motto of everyone's life (terms and conditions apply).
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It varies from person to person. Ive printed probably thousands worth of models for less than ONE thousand...but ive also probably put in enough part time work post processing, cleaning resin, replacing FEP sheets, tearing my hair out over print fails etc. Ive probably spent a couple hundred on STLs too. So its not like "ah, its cheap and easy" like some make it sound...but damn it IS worth it if you put the time in.
A lot of people have more time than money
> Do what makes you happy amiright? Edit: Did he just block me for telling him, to do whatever makes him happy?
I used to just buy cheap 2nd hand models off of EBay or other places like that. Sometimes they are put together badly or have a shitty paint job but it's easy to just strip that off. You can find some crazy fucking good deals sometimes, I got 5 leman russ and 2 hellhounds for about 80 dollars once. They were even magnetized!
*immediately opens ebay* Edit: 7 space marines already assembled, $16. I am here for this.
The best deals are the awful paint jobs! An hour in some isopropyl alcohol, little toothbrushing, and done. I get a lot of dudes that way.
Until you buy from some moron who basecoated with enamels, and there’s basically nothing that will take off the paint without melting the plastic. Still totally worth it though
Mix isopropal with la's totaly awsome
I use simple green but it can melt some plastic if you aren't careful and you definitely gotta reglue some shit afterwards.
I recently tried using isopropyl instead of simple green and the difference was night and day for me. Isopropyl works wo much better for my purposes, but I’m glad you have something that works for you.
It's funny cause I have 99% iso on hand all the time cause I do resin art and never once thought about trying it out. I am just an old man who's habits die hard.
I just looked at there are 7000 listings for secondhand 40k on eBay Australia
Well shit I never thought I’d have to move to Australia just to get sweet 40k mini deals. Anyway my plane ticket is booked.
Restoring old models is a lot of fun too. A hobby in its own right.
It's actually so nice to buy a model that's already been assembled and sometimes primed. I thought I enjoyed making them but it's so much better imo to just be able to jump straight into prime and paint.
Lets also not pretend that the 3d printer just goes brrrrrr Them fuckers have a ***picky*** machine spirit
Appeasing the machine spirit is essential. That, and remember to use the *good* incense. Helps a lot
Dude my saturn s hasnt been calibrated since i got it back in november, people make it seem way more complicated than it is. my machine was pretty plug and play
Example prints https://preview.redd.it/5s1quoddn8oa1.jpeg?width=2794&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0a2a8b3f54bd78f1ed03b176f3875ae207631fee
Noice.
Ah yes, the seth'an fragment of the Abyss Drake. Very nice
I think most people have experience with the Ender 3, which can be a huge pain in the ass and is the exact opposite of plug and play since you have to assemble the thing.
Actually I have both resin (mars 3pro) and ender 3 and it's pretty much unbelievable how much easier resin printing is for long term operation. Yes it's more complicated in some ways because of safety, but if you do some basic thinking about how it will work before you buy it and find a well ventilated area for it, it doesn't compare to the ender 3. I literally only print bases and large terrains on it lately and have to calibrate for 20 minutes every time I want to print.
so, what *is* a plug and play printer then?
Basically any resin printer from the past 3 years. The Photon Mono 4K and Mars 3 for instance will give you excellent results right out of the box.
Eh, learning process but it's a hell of a lot easier than learning to paint.
If I go to print minis, I have a whole silly ritual (I print on an Ender3 clone) One brand of PLA that I trust for high detail. Carefully adjusting model details in blender to make for a better print. Load carefully tuned Cura profile, go through all settings to make sure it's just right. Manually add supports if needed. Freshly formatted SD card with just the gcode I intend to run. Check and adjust belt tension. Atomic Pull cleaning on the hotend, twice. Clean the glass plate and apply a thinned PVA solution. (elmers white glue and water 2:1) Preheat to PLA temp, including bed (dries thinned PVA) Level the bed, make at least 3 stops at each corner. Print!
Prusa mk3. Jam SD card full to the brim of random stuff done with default prusa slicer settings, wipe dust off the plate with your hand, use whatever filament was left in from last print, hit go. The only issues I've run into are with things like small articulated models that have a ton of tiny individual pieces that print first. One inevitably pops up and wrecks it, but I'm sure that could be fixed with care to the build surface. When I was looking to get one my friends all asked, do you want to print stuff as a hobby or do you want the printer to be the hobby. I chose printing stuff. I haven't used it for 40k yet. I should go make a bunch of terrain
I think people confuse printing minis with owning a printer. I'm a painter not a player and I have a bunch of both GW models and printed models and printed models are definitely cheaper than GW stuff. Even high quality stuff is usually cheaper, ESPECIALLY for single models. GW has to price their models based on points value because it's a game first and foremost but I don't care that this birdperson can pull a meteor down on your Orks... i just wanna paint cool shit. 3d printing is a mystical, magical thing that makes this hobby 10x better.
I mean it can pay itself off pretty quickly. A Saturn 2 is \~$500. I can print roughly 2 baneblades for 1kg of resin, or $30. A new baneblade is roughly $180. So I have a net (personal) gain of $310 for those 2 baneblades (which I'm actually printing right now, lmao). I can also print around 10 full Cadian Shock squads for 1kg of resin, easily. So $320 net gain right there. So for $560, resin and a printer, I've already been able to print roughly $780 worth of minis, and that's gonna keep shooting up. Let's just say $100 for roughly all the other supplies (UV light, pickle bucket, bulk IPA, some scalpels) and even then it's $560 for $780, and that's gonna keep getting better since I don't need to replace the printer. And the saturn 2 is top of the line for shit like this. You could get a solid printer for WAY cheaper. But, economically, a 3d printer is just the way to go. Roughly, a full guard army runs ***$1,150.*** 8x base squads, 2x castellans, 1x leontus, 6x sentinels, 3x leman russ, 2x atillan. Lays a great foundation for most 2k armies. I can print that for $200 of resin easily, just running the # off the top of my head, and then $500 for the printer? I just saved $650 bucks.
my photon m3 was 230$ and is 4k...
I just used the Saturn 2 because (1) it's what I have and (2) it's what's in the pic, so it's a good reference for the debate. That's why I mentioned cheaper printers. I have a Saturn 2 because I design Warhammer models for money and I need a big print space for test prints.
> 2 baneblades for 1kg of resin Goddamn how big is that Baneblade
you can pick up a semi decent resin printer for a couple hundred these days, less second hand. resin is only about 30 per litre. how many minis could you get for 250? and of course you can print other things too. my mrs concluded the money i spent on my printers was well spent after i printed new brackets for the shelves in the fridge, which you cannot buy for any price anywhere and saved us having to buy a new fridge. then i printed her a jewellery box shaped like the luggage from the discworld books, and she has a baby pink legolini repeating slingbow. she is now completely onboard with any money i want to spend on the printers. they pay for themselves. if the mrs is on board, youre onto a winner.
Honestly if you have a bracket in your fridge and it breaks you may as well by a 3D printer because it’ll probably be less than buying a new bracket… it’s such a rip off.
thats the point. i could not buy the bracket, they dont sell them anywhere for any price. i could either macguyver it with something, which is not an option i like in the place i keep my food or buy a new fridge. plenty of other examples of small irreplaceable bits around the house that can be thrown together with a vernier gauge and an hour or two on tinkercad. the printer paid for itself with half a dozen small prints that took a few hours, so any minis from that point onward really did only cost resin.
Tbh even with the price of everything it’s still cheaper over the long run. And tbh 3d printing is a hobby of its own
Agreed! The amount of time I spent on YouTube tutorials and 3D printing forums probably amounted to a summer course 😂
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id also add you can use programs to assemble the models and print them whole.
I’m pretty sure GW has the weird-ass assembly like the 3 pieces to make a cape as a way to minimize mold lines and spruce gates being in visible parts of the model. Obviously a huge advantage of 3D printing is that you don’t have to deal with either of those issues, but modern plastic minis are *much* better at hiding mold lines compared to before they started using CAD-sculpted molds in the mid-2000s
I have a 3D printer and while I love the creative freedom, the upkeep and hassle of the whole thing means I almost never use it. Most of the time I just kitbash with GW bits which I find more satisfying than working with resin.
I mean GW does also give models/starter sets to schools and hobby clubs for free
First guy’s free, kid. Then you gotta pay.
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My Lego chaos dreadnought was peak 12-year-old me hobby goodness.
Said it before, I’ll say it again. Nothing against 3d printing itself, the actual fact that it’s a thing is basically magic to me, but you 3d printer owners are the fucking vegans of this hobby.
Am a 3D print user, can confirm. "Short answer; being a 3D printer just makes you better than other people"/s
But can you fry things without oil?
Crossfitter vegans of the hobby.
May basic response to a lot of this, is that this is the price of having a game that isn't manufactured by a country with cheap labour. (Except for printing of packaging) Yes other companies manufacture their game in not cheap labour countries, but GW has their own distribution and network of stores. I'm not happy about GW pricing. but I look at it as the reality of paying for a luxury item manufactured in western society. It reminds me of Apple products. The items are already a premium for what they are, but what if I were to produce all the Apple products in America?
Omg this is the perfect analogy, they ALWAYS need to insert this opinion into a convo even when unprompted
Thank you for this comparison, so many times have I been criticised for not buying into the printer side if things. But that to me isn't the hobby I wanted to get into, also I don't care enough about individual parts to print them out. Most printerbros that have tried to convince me end up saying "aw but you'd have to buy ten boxes of [X] model just to get enough [X] weapons for a squad" As someone yet to play but loves painting and collecting I don't see why I need converting or why when playing you can't just say to your gaming group, "yo those dudes are actually holding plasma guns kay?"
20 years from now. "Anyone else have trouble breathing?"
Actually this is rather tame, normally militant vegans would insult you or call you a butcher while making a semi-accurate but still horribly disturbing comic about cows.
Sounds like you've met my brother's girlfriend. My condolences
Someone called me a bloodmouth once. It was fucking awesome.
The meme is dumb too, like... why is the 3d printer guy proud of his army of monopose tactical marines. Really showing those gw buyers what they're missing out on... There are many better ways to make a point than a low effort circlejerk post
Yes I feel like I’m missing out on monopose shitty sculpts made by some guy doing it part time and with half the detail or detail that only shows up on the STL but you can’t get to print right because your settings are off
I assure you people arent going into debt by buying warhammer
Even in debt, I still serve
Ahhh, a venerable debtnaught. Respect.
Jokes on you I just got a second mortgage to buy this weeks meta list /s
Two buddies of mine are twins in their 40s and have been playing since they were kids. Between them they estimate they've spent about $250,000 on tabletop minis. They both still live with their widowed mother and don't have jobs right now..
The cost of the mini isn't in the mini, it's in the plate to make the mini. It's why they don't give a shit about handing out free kits to make up for the mildest of misprinted kits with next to no proof. Injecting a mold with plastic is cheap. Sculpting the model and then reducing it to bits and then casting the metal plates is an extremely expensive process.
The injection molds are like 300-500k a pop, if I remember correctly.
The molds or the machines? If it's the molds themselves, we're lucky the kits are as cheap as they are!
Like, this is hazy memory from watching a 20 minute vid like 4 years ago, so take it with some salt, but... The two part metal molds for injection plastic, they cost the 300+k to have made(I imagine sizes, and tolerances play a part here too, and to be fair GW plastic kits are very high tier). This is why as well, that individual characters in plastic often cost as much as an entire box of a unit. It's also why plastic is a lot rarer in smaller companies, or like Mantic and Avatars Of War where they do plastic units and metal or resin heroes/characters. When they have the molds paid for, plastic is so cheap, it's why they can give away free minis every month, or do things like the Conquest/Mortal Realms/Imperium magazines. I'm actually surprised they don't give away a mini with each White Dwarf, really. Unimportant single from a unit, even(like the Intercessor in the getting started box). Alternate systems each month, have a 2 page spread on painting it in a classic scheme to suit whatever it is.
That's pretty wild but would make sense.
I work in manufacturing. A steel mold to create a plain, rectangular box is many thousands of dollars. The guy they pay to design the rectangular mold is probably making around $200k/yr. The mold itself will eventually start to wear down and need to be refurbished every couple years and the repairs are also expensive. Now extrapolate that from a plain rectangular shape to an intricate, delicate design that gives you enough surface detail to be able to pick out the wires and knobs on a mini vehicle console. This stuff is not cheap to create and maintain.
Don't forget all the marketing, advertising and other overhead costs.
>How are poor kids supposed to get into and enjoy the hobby? Reading pirated lore, getting old models second hand, using cut outs. You don't have to get shiny artbooks or new model releases to enjoy the thing. Can't believe I'm defending the corp here but come on
Like sure GW is far from perfect but I see a lot of these trash arguments to where it's pretty much the only logical conclusion to call out how dumb they are.
I realised OP had a shit take when they said: “People shouldn’t be going into debt to participate”
"GW is too expensive. Just buy a printer LOL" This has big "just buy an ECar if you're too poor for gas, idiot" vibes
“How are poor kids supposed to get into and enjoy a hobby” Not by buying a 3D printer. I got started with this hobby by spending $20 to split the old kill team box with 3 intercessors and 3 reivers
My friend started with just using chess pieces for his guardsmen army. It was pretty fun.
Yea, poor kids should just buy a $300+ printer, learn how to operate it, print there minis, and spend even more on paints. I get its good for you, but 3d printer dont make the hobby cheap, they make it slightly cheaper. Someone with genuine money problems would be much better off buying 1 kit and playing killteam
"Here kid! Use these hazardous chemicals! But don't breathe it in or else you'll get respiratory issues!" lol
Most resin printers over here cost upwards of 1500 NZD not to mention the cost of resin (and the fumes) or repairs 3d printers are useful but only if you have the time and know how to operate one effectively something that most kids and teens don't have
3D printing is very much an investment and a hobby of its own. 3D print stans will tell you it’s super easy and no hassle, but that’s not true at all. When you buy a £30 box of GW models you just open it up, clip the pieces off and clean the mold lines and you’re ready to build and paint. When you want to 3D print you have to make sure your plates fine, you’ve got enough resin for the print, your settings are correct, you’ve got find or make the right model, get it scaled to the correct size, make sure it’s supported correctly, wait potentially hours (or days) for it to print, have the chance of realising something went wrong and have to redo the whole process over again, clean up a model that’s gone well (remove a excess resin, clean it, fill any potential bubbles/gaps...), then finally after all that you’ve stuck it to GW by spending hours or days on what you could of gotten from a quick drive to your local game store. This isn’t to say those who want to shouldn’t get a 3D printer, they’re great, but they’re not a directly replacement - they should be something you use along side GW models (they’re great for bases, conversion bits, terrain if you have a filament printer, etc)
4X revenue doesn't mean a ton, did they quadruple their profits too? They sell more products and sell them to more customers than in 2014 so more revenue is to be expected.
And wages and production/material costs increased and as they produce in the UK locally only (except for printed media) production and wages already were higher than for some made in china company
My main gripe about 3D printing is 99% of STLs feel like knockoffs. I don’t want to be playing Warmace 4000, I want my models to feel and look like 40k. Occasionally you get someone who makes almost 1-to-1 copies of stuff, which are 3D prints I’d be happy to use, but most just feel so *off*. It also doesn’t help most printable sculpts are even less posable then modern GW ones, and that’s saying something.
It really depends on the model. A large amount of STLs are nearly 1/1 to the GW models which I kinda like because it makes them easier to identify what their doing, and what they are. Also depending on the maker you can have a single folder have around 18 different heads, leg positions, arms ect. But I do agree, when I can print out a 700p kreig army for half the price of a tech engineer it does feel like cheasing it. But I also like the other creative side. 3D printing unlocks a whole the side of 40K customisation. I bought the makers cult Universal guard, Ogyrn mechs and Battle walkers and I run them as a kind of Cadian shock troops meats clone troopers proxy. All original models but they fill in the gaps where GW misses. And 80% of the time people will be fine playing against them. Especially if you take the time to paint them. Like the customisation for models is insane, I bought a second hand knight and I felt something was missing so I found a lion head shoulder pad and it made the whole model so much better.
> People shouldn't be going into debt to participate. Participate in what? You know you can play this with army men and cardboard cutouts, right?
Laughs in original deffdread
My friend uses empty bases with cardboard or those little plastic flying mini attachment things. People forget we're basically playing make-believe
Or play on tabletop simulator
Yeah, if you're putting yourself into debt and blaming a company for it, it's time to start looking at yourself.
Okey man. I bite. I am a poor guy, I not earning that much. But to be honest with you. I don't find the GW pricing that horrible. And I collecting 3 army (Around of 3000 points of necron, A growing Blades of Khorne army around of 2000 points, and has a small GSC army) and I not finding those prices too expensive. Sure as hell they are not cheap, but here is the thing. You don't need to buy your whole fucking army in one go. You can buy them in smaller packs and expand the army later on. Yeah prices could be lower, yeah GW could raise the pay check of the employess. But whenever I see this post the only thing that I can think is that for some reason people want to buy the newest meta army in one go, instead of slowly exploring what they like in the hobby and growing their army little by little.
I’m 19 years old, I work at a Subway part-time (around 18 hours a week, including tips I make around $16/hr) and I’m going to a small college in the South of the US. I live at home with my parents, I save 40% of every paycheck to go into my college/study abroad fund. That remaining 60% (~160 USD/week) pays for gas, food when I eat out with the friends, the occasional date that turns out to be way too expensive and goes nowhere, and Warhammer. I don’t have a lot of time to assemble my models, right now I’ve only bought two boxes—the Space Marines boarding patrol and a box of regular Intercessors. The pricing honestly isn’t that bad. I feel like averaging $5-10 USD a model isn’t terrible, it takes a lot of time for me to assemble the models because I just don’t have a lot of time to assemble them, and I haven’t even thought about painting them yet. When you’re assembling 3 models a week maximum, it takes a lot of time to get through it all. It’s a fun little hobby that gets me through several months at a time with a 100 dollar investment. Yeah, sometimes I spend $20 on a movie ticket, and I get 2 and a half hours of enjoyment out of that, sometimes I spend $60 on ten models that’ll take me 6 weeks to assemble all of them, plus they look pretty in the box I keep them in, and when I’m laying in bed listening to a podcast because I’m too tired to get up and do anything, it’s fun to imagine how running a game with them would look.
Fuck man - sometimes I just daydream of having some astra militarum all-in with valks, tanks and artillery while also imagining fortunate son playing. It's just cathartic in some goofy way.
I know, right? I plan on playing White Scars, just because they seem fun, but my dream army is Astra Militarum. I want to do a massive horde of infantry—no tanks, maybe a baneblade just because they look cool (but only so that I have one, not even for the game). I don’t even really want to play competitively, I just want me and a few friends to make a bunch of terrain pieces and play on a massive map and just have fun with it
It really isn't that bad, and claiming you have to go into debt to own a small army is hilariously hyperbolic. Also, they can justify the cost because that's what people are willing to pay for it. It's pretty simple economics.
Yup. I started in this hobby when I had much less money than now, so I just bought one box at a time. The collection built up over the years and I was eventually able to buy more if I wanted, but the core principle of not overxteending works for anyone. And if you really truly can't afford the hobby...then maybe reading lore and grinding for a better career in the meanwhile is the more reasonable move.
Not overextending is very important. The collective value of piles of shame is very VERY large
Oh yeah, I bet a good 50% of all existing GW models on earth are in the hands of well intentioned hobbyists at any given moment, still in box. I'm guilty myself, but this year I'm pushing to at least assemble, trim, and prime 100% of my collection before I can buy any new boxes.
Frankly people do not know how much effort, time, and money goes into creating a cast the quality of the ones GW sells. It's not even close to comparable to something 3d printed in terms of cost. How it compares in quality is besides the point - the fact is they're not making all that much money on the models. Their margin is in the books.
I personally still think that 60 bucks for a spray can and a vampire lord is bullshit but I can understand why you think otherwise.
Don't buy their spray can, go to Hobby Lobby and get a spray can of the same color.
Totally agree. I got into 3D-Printing after already being in the hobby for 15 years. I use it mostly for small stuff like bits, shoulderpads and so on. That is because I see it as an addition to the skills in building, kitbashing and sculpting things by hand, that I have accquired over those years. And the thing is, those printers can be used outside of Warhammer aswell. I am part of a small DnD group. I recently printed our party for our in-person-finale. Alongside viele villains and minions. All that painting I could do because of my Prior experience. Even build a gaming board with terrain making skills from when we only had scraps of styrofoam. Oh god, I have become a gaming boomer.... TL DR, I see 3D printing as an enrichment to the existing hobby. It can help in personalization and thats all a hobby is about.
THIS! ALL OF THIS! Thank you for being a voice of reason!
All the memes about pricing are just hurting the hobby at this point. I have friends that wanna start but have seen the memes about the prices and think it’s totally out of reach for them despite them making more money than me. People just have spending problems and buy $1000 worth of models all at once and then complain it’s the pricing and not their desire to buy a 2000 point army with flex units all at once.
Yes to this. People love to hate.
The one thing I don't understand is why do people keep saying GW treats their workers like shit? From what I have read most have had a pretty good time working for GW? The only bad feedback has come from people who have had issues with their local shop bosses being butts or somesuch (which hasn't been all that common too).
The last time I personally knew a GW manager was back in the early 2000’s. It “seems” that they were treated better back then compared to now. Pay? Hearsay, but I keep hearing average. 🤷♂️ Benefits? No clue. Maybe someone can fill us in. GW previously had multiple employees working at a single store ( in the US). Now, it seems they have 1 employee per store ( manager I assume ) and they work 6 days a week. I have been in that position ( not with GW ). It leads to burn out. Maybe GW does something special? I don’t know. But it doesn’t sound healthy to me.
Pay is decent, benefits are great, and it’s 37.5 hours a week, single employee store. Edit: and it’s just 5 days a week
Thank you for the clarification. I’m glad to hear they are treating you better compared to 10 years ago. Keep up the great work!
Honestly best job I’ve ever had! Glad I could help clarify too!
The benefits are deffo very good? Like GW having awesome benefits based on overall sales (which has led to a lot of big bonuses) been something many have been jelly over. Can't comment on the US market because ...well, US work-stuff is scary in general x)! edit: Oh, I see, actual answer from a worker here as well! Great.
To copy my other comment. They don't pay their store employees poorly. I was a store employee. After bi annual bonuses I made more money than any other part time employee at the mall. And their benefits for full timers are really good. Plus 50% off the models, and the managers/one person store owners get even better. The manager pay is not average, it's damn fine.
Who would win? Cents of plastic (big corp) VS Cents of plastic (random guy)
We dont care that you use a 3d printer we get it Seriously you are arguing against a stereotype that barely exists of gw purists most people don't care
Who the hell is going into debt for 40k?
I will start off with saying that minis of any high quality are going to cost some cash. I cannot argue that GW makes some gorgeous models. And no, they are not cheap. Another company that makes cool minis is Wyrd. Also, not cheap. They just don't seem as bad because they are for skirmish games instead of army games. To be fair, Wargames Atlantic is making some great stuff for a significantly lower cost to the consumer. But are they as crazy detailed as GW? Nope. Fantastic for what they are, though. Same with Perry Miniatures. As 3d printing goes, i only have an FDM printer. I have printed some decent minis on it, but nothing mind blowing. But ibcan definitelyplay games with them and i can print an army for pennies on the dollar. OP, you ask how poor kids can get into the hobby. Well, warhammer isnt the whole hobby. Tabletop wargaming has a plethora of options. If you want something affordable, Warhammer is not it. If you want something with good rules, Warhammer is not it. If someone wants to play 40k with better rules, then there are the OPR games, Star Breach, and i think the Rampant trilogy. You want giant stompy robots? Battletech is there. You want crazy skirmish wargames you have Frost Grave, Star Grave, Space Weirdos, Forbidden psalm, Zona Alpha, and so many more. If a person does not want to support GW, they really dont have to.
If only printer people would play as much as they post about how printing is superior...
They are too busy printing, talking about printing, fixing their printer or looking for files.
https://preview.redd.it/aaq19q8n18oa1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=06bcecf2f39aaf86fbd0378839088c43b89e0758
As a proud owner of a 3d printer i have to say: Printed resin minis are shit. Customized bits and base toppers are rad tho.
And terrain! I'm generally ok with the quality/price I'm paying for models, but I'll be damned if I'm paying $70 for a handful of wrecked buildings.
I did printed terrain when i had the old Ender 3 (PLA) and i have to say it's not worth it, it takes forever and me and my group switched to TTCombat sets since then. If you print terrain in resin you are either rich or a maniac or both.
Also find that GW minis are generally higher quality, and the good STLs are not free. That said, the amount of time and effort it takes for printing vs getting a model kit sometimes makes getting the model kit more worth it.
The paid STLs are really wort it and you can get basically the same level of dettail. My problem with printed resin is that it's brittle, drop the mini from 5cm and it cracks, try to smooth some imperfection with the hobby knife and, if you don't accidentally snap the bit, you get resin dust everywere. GW plastic is a plesure to work with in comparison.
I've seen people have some great results mixing in some tough/tenacious resin with the high-quality fast resin. Like, bouncing off the floor type of tough. I'm trying it out myself this weekend.
Yeah I love my 3d printer but the biggest drawback is definitely working with resin. It's brittle, the dust is toxic and it needs super glue. It's better than pewter (lighter, no drilling or pinning) and about the same as GW resin (which is softer but warps terribly), but much less friendly than plastic. Still worth it for the freedom and price imo.
And you need another hobby space for the printer and materials. Time at the computer, away from the paint table. Deal with fumes. Yes, it is cheaper. But you get yourself an entire giant hobby to facilitate a giant hobby.
3d printed components are the happy middle ground. I recently painted a squad of Blood Ravens Intercessors, and holy crap having 3d printed shoulder pads with actual physical insignias made things *soooooo* much easier.
Curious what printer and settings you're using. Not meant to be a gotcha but I did an experiment with a control vs experiment test after printing and no one could really point to anything that made it obvious which was a printed marine
*It’s over GWshills, I have already depicted you as the Nerd and me as the Chad!* Like, okay man. Sheesh. Most people here have nothing against 3D printing itself, it’s the “3d printer goes brrrr” *ad nauseam* and the sense of superiority that inevitably comes with it that annoys everyone.
They are not paid poorly, but they are paid very averagely (and I don't believe their staff benefits are great)
GW paid every member of their staff a £5000 bonus during Covid, just a straight up cash bonus, because they had done so well that year. You tell me any other high street employer that would do something like that.
You forget the countless hours people work making rules, lorestories, artwork and build the world and setting. Those guys have to be paid as well and without them the hobby would quickly die due to stagnation.
How much does the printer alone cost? And the material?
~300 bucks printer. ~40-60 bucks for good resin for 1l/1kg. ~Other equip 1time: 100-200.
Resin has come down a lot in price, my last resupply was $22 for 1kg
Yeah Sunlu is pretty good, I've been having great quality prints at 4k resolution for only $25 a kg
The Mars printer range goes from 150 - 500, the cheapest option is more than enough for printing tabletop minis https://www.elegoo.com/collections/mars-series Resin, depending on the brand and properties, can go between 15 - 40, I prefer Elegoo ABS like grey, which are around 30 https://www.amazon.com/ELEGOO-UV-Curing-Standard-Photopolymer-Printing/dp/B07P6W5L8P/ref=sr_1_15?keywords=3d+printing+resin&qid=1679026737&sr=8-15 Other equipment includes a respirator, replacement filters, nitrile gloves, paper towels, isopropyl alcohol, and screen covers for the printer. Prices vary depending on usage.
Other consumables not mentioned: Isopropyl, masks, gloves, and FEPs. It's still cheaper than buying GW minis all the time, but people don't really talk about all the other stuff you need.
What mainly annoys me is the people who go "buya3dprinterbuya3dprinterbuya3dprinter" every time someone mentions prices, like yeah, I get it, it's cheaper to print the minis, but you actually have to buy a printer, buy the stuff to print with, and I've heard that malfunctions and misprints are painfully common, it just seems like a lot of hassle and again, the "Church of the 3d Printer" people annoy me
Also, I can't speak for others, but I genuinely enjoy building the models. It's possibly my favorite part of the hobby.
You’d be correct. 3D printers are great, but they’re not just “push button, model comes out” For a box of GW models you just open the box, clip them off, clean the mold lines and you’re good to go. For a 3D printer there’s a bunch of extra things to do, you have to wait hours or days for them to print (depending on printer and print size) and the chance of it looking crap because your setting was *slightly* off is decent. It’s a whole hobby on it’s own, which personally I’m all for but it’s not as simple as “Just 3D print, bro”
BUT WOULD YOU THINK ABOUT THE KIDS?????????? Seriously though, I've been in warhammer since 2018. As a poor student back then I could buy like a box a month, so I would buy resin kits and 3d printed stuff because it was cheaper. The quality was always worse than plastic, I had to work with toxic dangerous materials, paint would scratch later on, and certain minis were off the table for me because resin would never be able to not break on something like drukhari all the time. Back then I was building up my armies through stuff like birthday gift money and stuff. And even then I was able to build up 2 armies up to 2k points each. Now it's 2023, I have a decent job, and I can buy warhammer in plastic, and it's always worth it, it's so much better that resin. Also, let me tell you - this hobby isn't ***that*** expensive. Have you tried building a paludarium for a big lizard? Buying new furniture? Musical instruments? Maybe you'd like to get into hiking and look at how much good equipment costs, like good hiking clothes, a tent, tools, a good backpack etc. Or shall we talk about the cost of buying a new console/PC and buying video games?
Middle of the road argument here. Firstly Warhammer miniatures are definitely either the best or close to the best miniatures available and their high price point reflects that quality. Also in the last decade they have definitely continued to improve the quality of their merchandise and customer engagement. My complaints are: 1. They use predatory market practices like limited runs of goods and built in obsolescence. 2. They do bullshit like throwing in an extra spruce and charging 50% more. 3. The majority of the money goes to corporate instead of small businesses. 4. The extreme overreach in their ip protection. It’s one thing if someone’s pumping out ‘Spece Marines’ en-mass and selling them at massive reductions to undercut their business but attacking things that add to the narrative like small creative works by fans, additional customisation options they can’t or won’t stock and continuing product lines they’ve completely abandoned is BS especially for a ip that is itself highly derivative. 5. The fact that they regularly raise prices on account of the ‘cost of living’ is pure corporate greed. They’re making record profits, the cost increases are simply that they know they can milk more out of customers, not because they’re a small business struggling to pay staff.
1 - yep, fomo can suck my ass allotherpoints - yep, I agree, we should vote with our money, be responsible and hold companies accountable.
Bruh. Fine. What’s the cost of a 3d printer that can print at GW quality. Oh and if it misprints, can it give a whole new squad for free? How are poor kids gonna buy that 3d printer? I think a $60 box of marines is a lot better of an initial cost than the hundreds of bucks needed for a printer of equal quality. Get real.
3d printing is significantly cheaper in the long run but only if you actually use it. If you're new to the hobby and want to pick up a starter box for 200 and know you'll be happy with it, a printer might not be worth your while. If however you want to collect a bunch of models that are limited, hard to find, or you consider overpriced (titans, anything forgeworld), a midline printer will pay for itself quickly. BUT! 3d printing is a hobby by itself, it's not just you press a button and the minis magically appear. You need to take time to learn slicing software as well as some 3d modeling for the inevitable broken STL or digital kitbashing. Not to mention the health and safety hazards which I believe you should take very seriously, resin will fuck you up. Wear a respirator rated for organic gas, and wear nitrile gloves every. single. time. The cost of consumables is, I find, negligible compared to what you're saving by printing models but it is another factor to consider.
Yeah sure the hobby could be cheaper but just say that. Don't go about poor kids like this is some kind of human rights issue. And if you go into debt for your hobby then that's honestly a you problem. Again all power to you and the machine that goes Brrrr Also the hobby is not that expensive compared to other things and the sculpts are really good But you do your thing
Hot take: it’s not that expensive when compared to other hobbies. Especially when you compare it with video games
Or Golf. Or Fishing, camping, Magic: The Gathering, being into more than 2 tabletop RPGs (I just got into GURPs and spent almost $300 on books), Lego, PC gaming, console gaming, hunting, kayaking, the list goes on... Hell, my father spent thousands upon thousands of dollars on his model railroad layout in the 80s and 90s.
No one is actually pressed about 3d printers in the hobby y'all just post this shit to be self-congratulatory
>How are poor kids supposed to get into and enjoy the hobby? People shouldn't be going into debt to participate. The entitlement is real. Play with cut outs.
OP acting like GW minis are a fundamental human right
a lot of people seem to believe that tho
And made of solid gold so only the 1% can afford
kid named accidently leaving your minis in a hot car:
People always forget the cost of labor to manufacture and the cost to pay the 3d artist and the cost to pay the industrial designer to make the mold etcetc. They just value the minis by the weight of the plastic, then complain that *they* don't get paid enough at *their* job for *their* labor to afford to buy the miniatures, which are just "a few cents to make!" ??? Gw are still greedy jerks obv.
Everyone in my AOS league that is all about printing models plays with unpainted resin. The people who buy GW plastic play with painted or in-process painted armies. No one can tell me that 3D printing = effort.
I think it's because everything is done in the UK, even the manufacturing. So in a way they are employing local people as opposed to just having it all made in China etc. And the reason it is so expensive to pay people or to manufacture in UK is not GW's fault. I do agree it is expensive. But I think it's important to consider the context.
this is a repost? maybe? I am not sure but I think I have seen the same exact meme before. EDIT: nvmd, it's all clear, this is an "original" post, or as original as a soyjack vs chad meme can be.
Imagine thinking revenue has anything to do with prices
What OP dosent show the the failed batch of 50 marines.
Going into debt. Really? This is a game of toy soldiers, not some essential service.
Terrible meme, no one cares. Theyre just toys, get them however you want.
their revenue isn't what you should be looking at, check out their profit before taxes. it has increased more than 12x from 2014 to 2022
wOn’t sOmEoNE THiNk oF ThE ChIlDrEn
It's that store income? Or income from whoring out their IP to any video game studio?
Okay, but revenue is not a meaningful stat is business.
They don't pay their store employees poorly. I was a store employee. After bi annual bonuses I made more money than any other part time employee at the mall. And their benefits for full timers are really good. Plus 50% off the models, and the managers/one person store owners get even better.