The most interesting part about the Mongol Empire was it's rapid expansion. The internal fighting drama after that? Not much better than what you can find in other empires history, lmao.
Honestly the byzantine-ottoman drama was really stupid. Everyone got all heat up over just a few name changes, I mean honestly. I get Byzantine chan is the senpai but I dont get why their fanbase went straight for Ottoman chan either. I understand if Byzantine chan is your oshi but like surely you can get that all that drama was so last 5 centuries.
Ottoman chan worked so hard for her debut, and her spark in popularity made byzan fans get upset, just so childish from both fanbases.
Look, its a popular fan nickname, some of her clippers even use it too. She even had a stream about 600 years ago where she herself called herself that. A lot of her genmates call her byzantine-chan too! Like Holy Roman Empire-chan, or Bulgaria-chan
I know, but her tantrums are really cute. Latin-chan and Venetia-chan are such jokers. A really great duo, probably one of the best teetee moments. It is very sad how Latin-chan had to graduate though, that whole drama was just so pointless
Yeah but otto-chan has plenty of opportunities to develop her character in the coming up anatolia arcs, she didn't have to gang up with bulgaria and venice to bully byz-chan in the past few seasons, when she was already losing her presence in the show.
Yeah, its a shame how byz-chan fell off. She's on indefinite hiatus these days, so she's probably taking time to recover her mental health after all that.
Honestly, i'm super hyped for the Anatolia "Shine with Me" cons, they look super good. I can't wait to see otto-chan dance with the rest of them, its taken her so long to get the equipment she needed and practice with it.
The whole irony iirc that the first crusade was instigated by the byzantines. The 4th(?) ransacked it and them it truly just declined until the last siege, where iirc a door was left unlocked after the captain or so got injured.
Kinda a dark comedy
> The whole irony iirc that the first crusade was instigated by the byzantines
To be fair to the Byzantines, all they wanted was some bloody military aid to retake lost territory and instead the Pope made a whole holy war out if it (which Byzantine clergy frowned upon for reasons obvious to anybody mildly familiar with Christian doctrine).
Then suddenly a bunch of zealous rabble showed up - the People's Crusade - that kept starting shit in towns in the Balkans until the Byzantines rounded them up and ferried them across the Bosporus ASAP where they got promptly clapped by the Seljuks.
And when the *actual* crusader arrived, it was led by a bunch of European nobles who not only were constantly bickering with each other, but some of them also started nicking former Byzantine territory instead of giving it back.
The crusades as a whole were pretty much one of the worst things to ever happen to Eastern Rome.
I mean, the Pope wanted to achieve two things:
- get relations with the Byzantine church improved and maybe work towards long-term reconiliation
- get all those conflict-happy nobles out of Europe to do something productive
He got neither.
Someone literally left a gate open during the siege of Constantinople and the Ottomans just stormed it because some random incompetent forgot to lock up behind them.
So yeah it kind of was an inside job.
The Ottoman Empire is a very interesting historical state. Building off of the prior Turkic and Mongol invasions of the Hephthalites, Seljuqids and Rûm, and then the Ilkhanate, the descendants of Osman were in many ways complete foreigners to the Middle East. They were able to upend the traditional Greece/Roman and Arab/Persian spheres, placing a new middleman in between.
Picking up speed after the collapse of the Ilkhanate, the Ottomans served as mercenaries to the Paleiologos dynasty of the Byzantine-Roman Empire, fighting for different princes across their many civil wars, all the while eating up land as they went. This arrangement continued until the Ottomans outgrew their Byzantine lords, and switched the power relations from the 1400s onwards. Constantinople became a vassal to the Ottomans, until Mehmed II finally conquered it in the 1460s, ending almost 2000 years of the Roman state. From here, they consolidated their hold over Anatolia and Greece, both the traditional heartlands of the Byzantines. Then, they moved into conquering their neighbours, defeating the Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Romans on one side, and Annexing the failing Maluk Empire of Egypt on the other.
As the Ottomans continued growing, they found themselves butting heads with other powerful states, namely the Austrian Habsburg realm and the Safavid Persians of the East. Despite this external pressure, the state continued growing. The reign of Suleiman the Magnificent in the 1500s would be the point where the Empire is generally seen to have reached its peak, mainly in territorial extent. A golden age occurred for another century or two.
A fundamental issues of the Ottomans were their conservatism, and an unwillingness to adopt new technologies. Technology has been what helped Mehmed conquer Constantinople, by using cannons. However, once the state matured, it was resistant to new technologies from Europe, specifically the printing press, for fear of damaging the large industry built around writing copies of texts, especially the Qur'an.
By the 1700s as old empires across Europe collapsed, replaced by newer, more advanced states, the Ottomans struggled to keep up, and earnt the name, "the Sick Man of Europe". This conservatism kept their state and the people under them stuck in centuries old ways, which would cause many effects down the line.
The arrival of Russia would be another thorn to the Empire's side. No longer were the Persians or Austrians their sole rivals, but the sudden expansion of an extremely powerful and aggressive Russia caused the Ottomans to lose their Crimean allies, and resulted in more warring in the 1800s.
Coming into the late 1800s, as Europe's colonial empires now raced across the world in search for more resources to fuel the cores, they increasingly are up pieces of the Ottoman Empire. On top of this, Arabs and Greeks within the Empire had grown increasingly dissatisfied, and we're now in open rebellion. Greece won independence, the Balkans would be conquered by the Austro-Hungarians, Crimea was taken by Russia, North Africa and later Egypt would be split between the Spanish, French and British.
The 1900s saw a backward and failing state, which found itself dragged into a war alongside Germany and Austria-Hungary. The Young Turks movement also put pressure on Istanbul, and so by 1918, the Empire collapsed.
The territories, mostly Arabic in the Levant that had hoped to create an Arabic state would instead pass into British and French hands, and the Arabian peninsula being untied by the house of Saud.
One of the most interesting questions of the Ottoman Empire is: Is it European or is it Middle Eastern? This is a difficult question, and to be honest it has no answer, but depending on how you look at it changes things. Their conversion to Islam, and adoption of many Persian and Arabic words into Turkish means you be inclined to be believe them leaning in that direction, yet the Ottomans also picked up a lot of cultural ideas and concepts, even food from the Greeks, and the fact they had territory in both sides caused a lot of confusion. It's a really interesting question, but I think the best answer is that the Turks are unique. They are influenced by a lot of Mediterranean culture, but ultimately they are their own people.
If only schools could teach history as interestingly as you did here. Much more fun and memorable than trying to memorize dates and names throughout history. Thanks for the trip down history lane.
Yeah, the events, causations and results are more interesting and important than names and dates imho. Theres a hundred king johns and toms, dates span over hundreds of years, a simple understanding of the timeline and key players is sufficient to understanding the context of events.
I love history, from medieval to ww2, and just as an anecdote, 1500s were fascinating. Western side, knights and early guns, sieges, and india, mughal empires, Eastern, korean, japanese kingdoms/shogunates and ming dynasty had and then burned their treasure fleet. But i would never want to take a history elective lol
Yeah. Hi**story** is a story of humans. Everything has a cause and effect and it's all so fascinating. And classrooms suck so much at teaching it and it's a shame.
They say those who don't know their history are doomed to repeat it. And that seems to be very much the case nowadays...
"Nooo you have to know the EXACT DATE of this battle and name the EXACT two people that fought in it! Cause and effect of the battle? Consequences of it? The greater context in which it took place? Who cares about that, MEMORIZE!"
To be fair, history education in quite a few countries have moved away from memorizing exact dates and trivia since in the end it doesnt learn you anything important. Cause and effect, the direct consequences and the possible consequences for current day society are seen as more important.
No no please I just want to tell the lore of my oshi ottoman-chan, it took them a long time to build their confidence up and now they're really fun to watch, you should watch their latest clip: https://youtu.be/26BITJ1gFxQ?si=ncRIby45cTpwwkGU
One of these days HoloEN management will crave and let Mumei talks about the Second Punic War for 3 hours, okay
We need to prepare for that eventuality
Actually it was much troublesome than that between 1400-1450, as Timur shattered the Ottoman army in the Battle of Ankara in 1402, and then purposefully plunged the Ottomans into civil war so he could go after Ming and errr do who knows (didn't matter, he died on the way there). The Ottomans had to deal with internal strife, and only after the Battle of Varna in 1444 (guess what the day of the EU4 start date is) did they manage to gain a free hand again to rein in Byzantium/ERE
I like the ERE more if anything, its sad that the Empire fell by incompetence and the outrageous amount of civil wars before the Empire finally collapsed.
I like the Byzantines more too, more cause i'm a history buff and when it comes to Muslim history I lean in other places. I think the most interesting thing with the Ottomans was them in relation to the Safavids and the Mughals. During the 1700s, those 3 states controlled pretty much the whole core Muslim world, and all of them had their fingers in the peripheries too. They became so critical to the future of that region of the world, and everything they all did still have massive impacts that we see today.
The Byzantines were always screwed up, its a wonder they lasted so long. I love learning Byzantine history but ngl, it sounds like a horrible state, with a slow moving, inefficient and corrupt system. Lingering arrogance from days gone by when they ruled the world, yet they can barely keep back the constant Germanic, Slavic and Turkic migrants. Constant political turmoil. Religious turmoil, constantly fighting back the innevitable push of Islam. They could never truly fix themselves either, because every bright general or emperor would be fighting two wars simultaneously: one in the periphery and the other in Constantinople. And they were hated in all sides, be it the Papal States on one side, the Caliphate and Sultanates on the other, to the Khanates like the Pechenegs, the Bulghars, etc etc etc.
The Ottomans weren't that different though. Honestly, if you want my opinion, the Ottomans were in many ways the successors of the Roman Empire. Thats often disagreed with because they're Muslim, and also picked up lots of Persian influence, but Mehmed II was given the title Caesar by the Patriarch of Constantinople, and the Roman state had transferred identity before, from the Latins to the Greeks, who were rather different.
Phew, sorry, sorry guys ik its Hololive im getting really off topic but this pushed my history button and I havnt done a good rant in a while
You my friend, should check out the wonderful world of history channels on youtube. Such as Kings and Generals. They pretty much make history documentaries, though its a bit more dramatic. They're one of the big ones, so heres some others:
**If you wanna recover that History Channel feel for real though, check out History Time**: https://youtube.com/@HistoryTime?si=UfOoac9yYMyTLTuf - History time does a lot of broad stuff, but they're pretty much like those documentaries, really cool. Over an hour long too, so you have plenty of time to sit on the couch and watch it.
Or history with Cy https://youtube.com/@HistorywithCy?si=TV0VJG9yBJvN2nrQ - He mostly focuses on the Middle East and Bronze Age civilisations, such as Egypt: Dynasty by Dynasty. His stuff is shorter than History Time, but he packs information into it really well, and he does great little visuals.
**Or, if you like Visually learning like I do, I'd recommend you watch 'every year' map timelapses.** They're more fun than accurate I find, but its cool to see. Specifically people like Ollie Bye, Emperor Tigerstar, Dragon Historian, and Yan Xishan.
Edit: also, if you wanna learn Muslim history, check out Al Muqaddimah. https://youtube.com/@AlMuqaddimahYT?si=v-l-5TVoNhjmbOYZ he does a lot of good work, though I find I disagree on some of his views. But thats just history, all of us are biased, and for someone learning it, it's about considering these biases and thinking which is the most reasonable for you.
I do think the ERE could've saved itself if they had a few more lucky breaks and Emperors, they were this close to surviving. Post 1204 it was disaster after disaster though.
I feel that the ERE had many parallels to the Chinese dynasties (and many differences) during times of crisis: having geography where everyone can gang up on you is bad too.
I do feel the Ottomans were very much the spiritual successor of the ERE, and they're more a mix of the old and the new. After all the Ottomans adopted the Pronoia system when they conquered the ERE and they didn't ditch it for a while.
It's complicated. On one hand, the Ottomans did it to themselves. For example, they blocked Portuguese and Spanish trade vessels from getting to Egypt to get Indian products. This was a factor driving Portugal to circumvent Africa, and for Spain to go west to the Americas. This decision ended up crippling the Ottoman economy, it was a complete own-goal. Instead of trying to rectify the situation, and maybe encourage trade again, they just dug down further. But I guess by that point it was too late. As I mentioned in my rant, their refusal to adopt the printing press also hurt them, and held them back. This was a common feature, and I think it was arrogance on the part of the Ottomans, who really didn't think Europe could make anything special.
On the other, its true that European states realised that once the Ottomans were down for the count, they could begin pulling it down. This is a common feature in EU politics, I think mainly due to its flat geography, as other old empires at the time suffered a similar fate, be it the Poland-Lithuanian commonwealth, which got eaten apart by the Austrians, Prussians, and Russians; or the Swedish empire, who were broken by the Polish, Russians, and Danes.
Ultimately though, my personal conclusion was the Ottomans had gone too long. States dont live forever, and they really do end up outliving their times. The Ottomans had grown conservative, and in response to new technology, they tried to dig their head in the sand. They were too big, as their vast empire was deeply multi-ethnic, making anything the Ottomans do a struggle. They were outcompeted by newer and more advanced states, which is how history goes. Look at how the Ottomans came to power. They outcompeted a failing, corrupt and conservative Byzantine state. They adopted canons where Constantine XI was unwilling to make the investment (though to be fair on his part he couldnt afford it either)
He probably did the conversion swap cheese to get +200 relations with all muslim nations so he could quickly Eyelet them allowing him limitless manpower and immunity to war decs from Poland/Austria/France and then quickly did mehemet's ambition since it's getting nerfed next week.
Our Duce! Lead us! Let us forge weapons of war with you! Let us talk about greatness of our ancestors with you! Make manhood great again! All hail to Muad'Dib!
The comment is about the Ottoman Empire and yet most of the comments are about the Byzantines.
Byzaboos get over the fall of their favorite Empire challenge (difficulty Impossible)
No one can understand it, I sometimes wondering how Roman Empire works randomly or how the hell I will use a medieval weapon to siege a modern building.
The best way to siege a modern building is the Trojan horse method.
Either get someone to open the door or get someone to bring you inside. Then you win since people aren't anymore resistant to medieval weapons today.
Once the element of surprise is gone, you have to deal with firearms. But that's why you build the siege equipment inside and not outside.
Me throwing a YOLO ticket on Michael just to be rainbow spooked by granny Europa got me mad.
Europa's voicelines are too sweet I'm falling for her and now I want to be headpatted by her please send help
His official debut is gonna be helluva hyped by her fans and I'm in for it. It would be interesting if he or dad surpasses mamarissa.
Most surprisingly is that Nerissa had the patience to listen to him babbling about the ottoman empire for an hour.
I do this randomly too but via chat cuz my siblings all live in different countries. I just start texting them interesting things I found about the Roman, Ottoman, Chinese, Inca, whatever empire, you name it. Roman is the one I most commonly think about for no reason. I think they ignore me while I'm at it.
The day BroRissa makes an appearance on stream, he will give us all a master class on the ancient empires of the world while he playing a game related to them, it will be one of the best streams of all
From the roman empire to the ottoman empire, next will be the mongols, after that the persian, then he goes into the beginning of the expansion of the islamic world, then jumps back into the pharaonic era, then a huge jump forward towards the rise of the communism, etc.
Let the man share his fascination of the old empires of the world, we all need someone, especially if said someone is dear to us, to listen to us talking about such things.
The manly urge to talk about the Ottoman Empire.
Crys in Mongolian
The most interesting part about the Mongol Empire was it's rapid expansion. The internal fighting drama after that? Not much better than what you can find in other empires history, lmao.
Cry harder
I personally prefer the Eastern Roman Empire, screw Ottomans
Honestly the byzantine-ottoman drama was really stupid. Everyone got all heat up over just a few name changes, I mean honestly. I get Byzantine chan is the senpai but I dont get why their fanbase went straight for Ottoman chan either. I understand if Byzantine chan is your oshi but like surely you can get that all that drama was so last 5 centuries. Ottoman chan worked so hard for her debut, and her spark in popularity made byzan fans get upset, just so childish from both fanbases.
She's ERE-chan not Byzantine-chan! Get her name right!
Look, its a popular fan nickname, some of her clippers even use it too. She even had a stream about 600 years ago where she herself called herself that. A lot of her genmates call her byzantine-chan too! Like Holy Roman Empire-chan, or Bulgaria-chan
It's bc she had to endure bullying from the gen 3s like Venetia Marina that she adopted it! She herself said she doesn't like the name!
I know, but her tantrums are really cute. Latin-chan and Venetia-chan are such jokers. A really great duo, probably one of the best teetee moments. It is very sad how Latin-chan had to graduate though, that whole drama was just so pointless
Yeah but otto-chan has plenty of opportunities to develop her character in the coming up anatolia arcs, she didn't have to gang up with bulgaria and venice to bully byz-chan in the past few seasons, when she was already losing her presence in the show.
Yeah, its a shame how byz-chan fell off. She's on indefinite hiatus these days, so she's probably taking time to recover her mental health after all that. Honestly, i'm super hyped for the Anatolia "Shine with Me" cons, they look super good. I can't wait to see otto-chan dance with the rest of them, its taken her so long to get the equipment she needed and practice with it.
THE CROSS WINS FOR GOD AND SAINT GEORGE?
The manly urge to talk about ancient civilizations
The fall of Constantinople was an inside job.
I mean kind of? Fellow Christians did ransack and tear it apart and it never quite recovered from that own goal.
The crusader states basically ended the byzantine dream. Everything leading up to Istanbul was just the dance macabre
The whole irony iirc that the first crusade was instigated by the byzantines. The 4th(?) ransacked it and them it truly just declined until the last siege, where iirc a door was left unlocked after the captain or so got injured. Kinda a dark comedy
> The whole irony iirc that the first crusade was instigated by the byzantines To be fair to the Byzantines, all they wanted was some bloody military aid to retake lost territory and instead the Pope made a whole holy war out if it (which Byzantine clergy frowned upon for reasons obvious to anybody mildly familiar with Christian doctrine). Then suddenly a bunch of zealous rabble showed up - the People's Crusade - that kept starting shit in towns in the Balkans until the Byzantines rounded them up and ferried them across the Bosporus ASAP where they got promptly clapped by the Seljuks. And when the *actual* crusader arrived, it was led by a bunch of European nobles who not only were constantly bickering with each other, but some of them also started nicking former Byzantine territory instead of giving it back. The crusades as a whole were pretty much one of the worst things to ever happen to Eastern Rome.
“It’s free real estate” - said the pope, about real estate that was certainly not free
I mean, the Pope wanted to achieve two things: - get relations with the Byzantine church improved and maybe work towards long-term reconiliation - get all those conflict-happy nobles out of Europe to do something productive He got neither.
Brorissa is dis u?
Anything is free if you're brave enough.
Have the Crusades ever done anything right..?
Of course it was an inside job, I bet it was those damn Templars and their Apple of Eden!
Unexpected AC
More like expected, I mean there's Revelations.
Oh yeah. Ngl AC fell off completely for me after Rogue and BF
Unity was cool when it wasn’t bugging out, and Syndicate was pretty fun too imo, but the series lost me after that.
The formula might've been repetitive from 1 to syndicate, but what came after was even worse.
Ottoman cannons cannot melt Byzantine walls.
Someone literally left a gate open during the siege of Constantinople and the Ottomans just stormed it because some random incompetent forgot to lock up behind them. So yeah it kind of was an inside job.
The Ottoman Empire is a very interesting historical state. Building off of the prior Turkic and Mongol invasions of the Hephthalites, Seljuqids and Rûm, and then the Ilkhanate, the descendants of Osman were in many ways complete foreigners to the Middle East. They were able to upend the traditional Greece/Roman and Arab/Persian spheres, placing a new middleman in between. Picking up speed after the collapse of the Ilkhanate, the Ottomans served as mercenaries to the Paleiologos dynasty of the Byzantine-Roman Empire, fighting for different princes across their many civil wars, all the while eating up land as they went. This arrangement continued until the Ottomans outgrew their Byzantine lords, and switched the power relations from the 1400s onwards. Constantinople became a vassal to the Ottomans, until Mehmed II finally conquered it in the 1460s, ending almost 2000 years of the Roman state. From here, they consolidated their hold over Anatolia and Greece, both the traditional heartlands of the Byzantines. Then, they moved into conquering their neighbours, defeating the Kingdom of Serbs, Croats and Romans on one side, and Annexing the failing Maluk Empire of Egypt on the other. As the Ottomans continued growing, they found themselves butting heads with other powerful states, namely the Austrian Habsburg realm and the Safavid Persians of the East. Despite this external pressure, the state continued growing. The reign of Suleiman the Magnificent in the 1500s would be the point where the Empire is generally seen to have reached its peak, mainly in territorial extent. A golden age occurred for another century or two. A fundamental issues of the Ottomans were their conservatism, and an unwillingness to adopt new technologies. Technology has been what helped Mehmed conquer Constantinople, by using cannons. However, once the state matured, it was resistant to new technologies from Europe, specifically the printing press, for fear of damaging the large industry built around writing copies of texts, especially the Qur'an. By the 1700s as old empires across Europe collapsed, replaced by newer, more advanced states, the Ottomans struggled to keep up, and earnt the name, "the Sick Man of Europe". This conservatism kept their state and the people under them stuck in centuries old ways, which would cause many effects down the line. The arrival of Russia would be another thorn to the Empire's side. No longer were the Persians or Austrians their sole rivals, but the sudden expansion of an extremely powerful and aggressive Russia caused the Ottomans to lose their Crimean allies, and resulted in more warring in the 1800s. Coming into the late 1800s, as Europe's colonial empires now raced across the world in search for more resources to fuel the cores, they increasingly are up pieces of the Ottoman Empire. On top of this, Arabs and Greeks within the Empire had grown increasingly dissatisfied, and we're now in open rebellion. Greece won independence, the Balkans would be conquered by the Austro-Hungarians, Crimea was taken by Russia, North Africa and later Egypt would be split between the Spanish, French and British. The 1900s saw a backward and failing state, which found itself dragged into a war alongside Germany and Austria-Hungary. The Young Turks movement also put pressure on Istanbul, and so by 1918, the Empire collapsed. The territories, mostly Arabic in the Levant that had hoped to create an Arabic state would instead pass into British and French hands, and the Arabian peninsula being untied by the house of Saud. One of the most interesting questions of the Ottoman Empire is: Is it European or is it Middle Eastern? This is a difficult question, and to be honest it has no answer, but depending on how you look at it changes things. Their conversion to Islam, and adoption of many Persian and Arabic words into Turkish means you be inclined to be believe them leaning in that direction, yet the Ottomans also picked up a lot of cultural ideas and concepts, even food from the Greeks, and the fact they had territory in both sides caused a lot of confusion. It's a really interesting question, but I think the best answer is that the Turks are unique. They are influenced by a lot of Mediterranean culture, but ultimately they are their own people.
Found Brorissa's account.
That was a good read, thanks
Anything to spread the word about ottoman-chan, one of my oshis <333
Please leave. :)
Suleiman the magnificent is my kamioshi
His perks are kinda mid tho esp if you're not playing naval
Please stay.
If only schools could teach history as interestingly as you did here. Much more fun and memorable than trying to memorize dates and names throughout history. Thanks for the trip down history lane.
Yeah, the events, causations and results are more interesting and important than names and dates imho. Theres a hundred king johns and toms, dates span over hundreds of years, a simple understanding of the timeline and key players is sufficient to understanding the context of events. I love history, from medieval to ww2, and just as an anecdote, 1500s were fascinating. Western side, knights and early guns, sieges, and india, mughal empires, Eastern, korean, japanese kingdoms/shogunates and ming dynasty had and then burned their treasure fleet. But i would never want to take a history elective lol
Yeah. Hi**story** is a story of humans. Everything has a cause and effect and it's all so fascinating. And classrooms suck so much at teaching it and it's a shame. They say those who don't know their history are doomed to repeat it. And that seems to be very much the case nowadays...
"Nooo you have to know the EXACT DATE of this battle and name the EXACT two people that fought in it! Cause and effect of the battle? Consequences of it? The greater context in which it took place? Who cares about that, MEMORIZE!"
To be fair, history education in quite a few countries have moved away from memorizing exact dates and trivia since in the end it doesnt learn you anything important. Cause and effect, the direct consequences and the possible consequences for current day society are seen as more important.
Thanks Brorissa
(He racks the action on his FN P90.) *Get Out...!*
No no please I just want to tell the lore of my oshi ottoman-chan, it took them a long time to build their confidence up and now they're really fun to watch, you should watch their latest clip: https://youtu.be/26BITJ1gFxQ?si=ncRIby45cTpwwkGU
Look here, pal.
One of these days HoloEN management will crave and let Mumei talks about the Second Punic War for 3 hours, okay We need to prepare for that eventuality
Thanks brorissa
Found Brorissa alt acc!
If Nerissa ever joins Reddit, this'll give her PTSD...
Nerd
Actually it was much troublesome than that between 1400-1450, as Timur shattered the Ottoman army in the Battle of Ankara in 1402, and then purposefully plunged the Ottomans into civil war so he could go after Ming and errr do who knows (didn't matter, he died on the way there). The Ottomans had to deal with internal strife, and only after the Battle of Varna in 1444 (guess what the day of the EU4 start date is) did they manage to gain a free hand again to rein in Byzantium/ERE
Yeah you're right there, I overlooked their younger history a bit.
I like the ERE more if anything, its sad that the Empire fell by incompetence and the outrageous amount of civil wars before the Empire finally collapsed.
I like the Byzantines more too, more cause i'm a history buff and when it comes to Muslim history I lean in other places. I think the most interesting thing with the Ottomans was them in relation to the Safavids and the Mughals. During the 1700s, those 3 states controlled pretty much the whole core Muslim world, and all of them had their fingers in the peripheries too. They became so critical to the future of that region of the world, and everything they all did still have massive impacts that we see today. The Byzantines were always screwed up, its a wonder they lasted so long. I love learning Byzantine history but ngl, it sounds like a horrible state, with a slow moving, inefficient and corrupt system. Lingering arrogance from days gone by when they ruled the world, yet they can barely keep back the constant Germanic, Slavic and Turkic migrants. Constant political turmoil. Religious turmoil, constantly fighting back the innevitable push of Islam. They could never truly fix themselves either, because every bright general or emperor would be fighting two wars simultaneously: one in the periphery and the other in Constantinople. And they were hated in all sides, be it the Papal States on one side, the Caliphate and Sultanates on the other, to the Khanates like the Pechenegs, the Bulghars, etc etc etc. The Ottomans weren't that different though. Honestly, if you want my opinion, the Ottomans were in many ways the successors of the Roman Empire. Thats often disagreed with because they're Muslim, and also picked up lots of Persian influence, but Mehmed II was given the title Caesar by the Patriarch of Constantinople, and the Roman state had transferred identity before, from the Latins to the Greeks, who were rather different. Phew, sorry, sorry guys ik its Hololive im getting really off topic but this pushed my history button and I havnt done a good rant in a while
Nono, keep ranting history whenever a case is presented, I haven't been this entertained about history since the good old days of History Channel
You my friend, should check out the wonderful world of history channels on youtube. Such as Kings and Generals. They pretty much make history documentaries, though its a bit more dramatic. They're one of the big ones, so heres some others: **If you wanna recover that History Channel feel for real though, check out History Time**: https://youtube.com/@HistoryTime?si=UfOoac9yYMyTLTuf - History time does a lot of broad stuff, but they're pretty much like those documentaries, really cool. Over an hour long too, so you have plenty of time to sit on the couch and watch it. Or history with Cy https://youtube.com/@HistorywithCy?si=TV0VJG9yBJvN2nrQ - He mostly focuses on the Middle East and Bronze Age civilisations, such as Egypt: Dynasty by Dynasty. His stuff is shorter than History Time, but he packs information into it really well, and he does great little visuals. **Or, if you like Visually learning like I do, I'd recommend you watch 'every year' map timelapses.** They're more fun than accurate I find, but its cool to see. Specifically people like Ollie Bye, Emperor Tigerstar, Dragon Historian, and Yan Xishan. Edit: also, if you wanna learn Muslim history, check out Al Muqaddimah. https://youtube.com/@AlMuqaddimahYT?si=v-l-5TVoNhjmbOYZ he does a lot of good work, though I find I disagree on some of his views. But thats just history, all of us are biased, and for someone learning it, it's about considering these biases and thinking which is the most reasonable for you.
My goodness I need to catch some free time to watch these channels
I do think the ERE could've saved itself if they had a few more lucky breaks and Emperors, they were this close to surviving. Post 1204 it was disaster after disaster though. I feel that the ERE had many parallels to the Chinese dynasties (and many differences) during times of crisis: having geography where everyone can gang up on you is bad too. I do feel the Ottomans were very much the spiritual successor of the ERE, and they're more a mix of the old and the new. After all the Ottomans adopted the Pronoia system when they conquered the ERE and they didn't ditch it for a while.
I'm sorry, all I could understand was WHEN THE WINGED HUSSARS ARRIVED
Wasn't it the continental Europe who conspired to keep Ottoman empire 'sick'?
It's complicated. On one hand, the Ottomans did it to themselves. For example, they blocked Portuguese and Spanish trade vessels from getting to Egypt to get Indian products. This was a factor driving Portugal to circumvent Africa, and for Spain to go west to the Americas. This decision ended up crippling the Ottoman economy, it was a complete own-goal. Instead of trying to rectify the situation, and maybe encourage trade again, they just dug down further. But I guess by that point it was too late. As I mentioned in my rant, their refusal to adopt the printing press also hurt them, and held them back. This was a common feature, and I think it was arrogance on the part of the Ottomans, who really didn't think Europe could make anything special. On the other, its true that European states realised that once the Ottomans were down for the count, they could begin pulling it down. This is a common feature in EU politics, I think mainly due to its flat geography, as other old empires at the time suffered a similar fate, be it the Poland-Lithuanian commonwealth, which got eaten apart by the Austrians, Prussians, and Russians; or the Swedish empire, who were broken by the Polish, Russians, and Danes. Ultimately though, my personal conclusion was the Ottomans had gone too long. States dont live forever, and they really do end up outliving their times. The Ottomans had grown conservative, and in response to new technology, they tried to dig their head in the sand. They were too big, as their vast empire was deeply multi-ethnic, making anything the Ottomans do a struggle. They were outcompeted by newer and more advanced states, which is how history goes. Look at how the Ottomans came to power. They outcompeted a failing, corrupt and conservative Byzantine state. They adopted canons where Constantine XI was unwilling to make the investment (though to be fair on his part he couldnt afford it either)
Wow. Didnt expect to get a substantial response. Thank u very much.
>One of the most interesting questions of the Ottoman Empire is: Is it European or is it Middle Eastern? Yes
Why did Constantinople get the works? That's nobody's business but the Turks'.
***ISTANBUUUUUUUL***
He probably did the conversion swap cheese to get +200 relations with all muslim nations so he could quickly Eyelet them allowing him limitless manpower and immunity to war decs from Poland/Austria/France and then quickly did mehemet's ambition since it's getting nerfed next week.
>+200 relations with Muslim countries I guess that explains why Iofi is so down bad for Brorissa.
The fact that I understood every word in that sentence means I am far too deep in the excel sheet hole to be saved.
I'm glad people still use this reference...
Brorissa the History Buff
Brorissa is one of us.
The day our Brother wishes to come on Nerissa's stream, we will be there awaiting our King. SPQR.
Brorisss Plays HOI4 or Kaiseredux confirmed.
Nah more likely Crusader Kings or Victoria
EU4, obviously, right?
Total War: Empire, right?
All of the above in chronological order obviously, the only way
Ottomans lowkey changed world history. The Fall of Constantinople is a canon event.
Randomly talk about Ottoman Empire for a hour? That just how men work, randomly talk about empire or war.
He grew out of the Roman Empire phase They grow up so fast
Our Duce! Lead us! Let us forge weapons of war with you! Let us talk about greatness of our ancestors with you! Make manhood great again! All hail to Muad'Dib!
God, imagine barging into Nerissa's bedroom and talking to her about Ottoman Empire...
My god, it's literally me
Same, I do this to my sister all that time. Although usually about geology rather than history.
Be careful if she ever obtains an obsidian knife
The Byzantines were the superior empire.
The true OG's were the Romans and the Persians. Byzantium is only half the empire the Roman was. Ottoman is only half the empire the Persian was.
The comment is about the Ottoman Empire and yet most of the comments are about the Byzantines. Byzaboos get over the fall of their favorite Empire challenge (difficulty Impossible)
Mans probably plays EUIV or smth.
Brorissa sounds like a nerd Respect
I hope he had the time to elaborate the complexity of ottoman harem
I only respect Brorissa more and more for every dumb thing he does. I hope the bastard is doing well bothering his sister with ottoman empire facts.
This man writes fanfics in the persona of a 13th century Pro-Guelph Venetian Banker-Knight who bankrupted over 1500 Saracens during the Crusades.
No one can understand it, I sometimes wondering how Roman Empire works randomly or how the hell I will use a medieval weapon to siege a modern building.
The best way to siege a modern building is the Trojan horse method. Either get someone to open the door or get someone to bring you inside. Then you win since people aren't anymore resistant to medieval weapons today. Once the element of surprise is gone, you have to deal with firearms. But that's why you build the siege equipment inside and not outside.
We would be best buds holy shit
Why do I have a feeling Brorissa plays FGO? We're about to have the Traum event as well, and its set in Constantinople, iirc.
I get the feeling he plays Paradox games instead lol
Me throwing a YOLO ticket on Michael just to be rainbow spooked by granny Europa got me mad. Europa's voicelines are too sweet I'm falling for her and now I want to be headpatted by her please send help
Roman Empire too.
I salute you Brorissa as a history major 🫡
BRB sudden urge to play Civ 6 as Suleiman. I like to imagine Brorissa talked about history is a very overly sarcastic tone.
His official debut is gonna be helluva hyped by her fans and I'm in for it. It would be interesting if he or dad surpasses mamarissa. Most surprisingly is that Nerissa had the patience to listen to him babbling about the ottoman empire for an hour.
I'd be down for Brorissa to take over a stream and talk about history for an hour or 2. Or maybe he can rant about his blacksmithing hobby!
Man of culture. Gotta be my favorite empire to talk about.
I do this randomly too but via chat cuz my siblings all live in different countries. I just start texting them interesting things I found about the Roman, Ottoman, Chinese, Inca, whatever empire, you name it. Roman is the one I most commonly think about for no reason. I think they ignore me while I'm at it.
I always love this format of stitching together small screenshots of the text, because it makes nerissa look like a long booba centipede.
Say that on Twitter with the pic, you'll receive a surprise like and retweet
As a little brother myself, I find this extremly accurate !
The Ravencrofts are just Built Different.
there's a youtube channel called fall of civilization. it's great stuff
Great recommendation, thanks. Just finished watching part 1 of the series on Byzantium.
Genuinely my favourite channel on history-based stuff, the production on their stuff is so high quality and enjoyable.
Friendship ended with Rome, Ottomans are my new best friends - Brorissa probably
The day BroRissa makes an appearance on stream, he will give us all a master class on the ancient empires of the world while he playing a game related to them, it will be one of the best streams of all
Brorissa plays a paradox game. Probley eu4 or vic3
From the roman empire to the ottoman empire, next will be the mongols, after that the persian, then he goes into the beginning of the expansion of the islamic world, then jumps back into the pharaonic era, then a huge jump forward towards the rise of the communism, etc. Let the man share his fascination of the old empires of the world, we all need someone, especially if said someone is dear to us, to listen to us talking about such things.
I bet Brorissa listens to Sabaton and watches Perun
Every time I hear about him, I want to be friends with him.
brorissa amazing.
Her brother might be acoustic
Brorissa is really rising up to be my Oshi in the Ravencroft Family (aside from maybe Aradia, but Rissa is still ~3 to me)
THE MANLY URGE GO TALK ABOUT AN ANCIENT HISTORY
Didn't he do that about the Roman Empire a few months ago?