Totally a tangent here but I get a kick out of when a play falls apart or clearly doesn't work, Mahomes does insane magic, and they squeak out a TD or first down. Then the camera switches to Reid looking in his playsheet like "great that play worked perfectly, I'm a genius, which brilliant play from my master mind should I call next..."
The truth is that Andy calls the plays, Nagy is the coach responsible for installing the gameplan and making sure offensive players are, you know, *coordinated* and executing.
I was on the Embree hate train most of the season, but Rice did very much improve as the season went on and became a huge part of the offense year 1. It was disappointing to see Toney/Skyy hyped and be so bad, but maybe they just aren’t good? I’m not sure who can really help Toney, as he doesn’t seem to want to work himself. Skyy just seems too small and not NFL caliber truly, he maybe fits in as a slot guy somewhere else but like we saw with Rice, someone can fill that slot so much better. MVS was in the offense the year prior and regressed and is still a FA. Watson was a PS guy until he came to KC and hasn’t done bad.
Looking back on the year, it’s hard to blame Embree for the development of the others when the lack of talent was clear in the WR room past Rice, Hardman and MVS still aren’t signed and probably take cheap backup roles elsewhere right before camp. If the room is still not good with an added Hollywood/Worthy, then I’ll go back on the train, but he should get some leeway for Rice at least rn.
Based on his interview that was making the rounds last year, it just didn't seem like Embree likely contributed anything of value. I just imagine "ok guys let's have a good practice today" "great catch Rice keep it up" at the practices and nothing more.
Skyy’s route running is as bad as it gets. Everything is a parabola to him, he’s incapable of making any sort of cut. It’s incredible to see legitimately no development
And sometimes if he knows the ball is out of reach, he’ll either slow his route or stop altogether which causes interceptions. Saw that a couple times last year.
Which I can see the hate for Embree there but after 2 years of Skyy, he just looks like a kid in college who did well vs smaller conference competition and isn’t cut out for NFL guys fully. Hes not fast enough in game speed for his size, doesn’t run the routes too well, and cant catch anything that’s not in his chest due to his small size. Can blame Embree but he may just be a full whiff of a pick, he maybe carves out a WR4 role in the future, but I’m out on ever thinking he’s gonna be a starting WR no matter who takes him in the NFL and develops him.
>Which I can see the hate for Embree there but after 2 years of Skyy, he just looks like a kid in college who did well vs smaller conference competition and isn’t cut out for NFL guys fully.
At this point I still wasn't sure if you were talking about Skyy or Embree.
Wasn’t the hype around him coming out of college his crisp routes and ability to get separation? What the hell happened, other than everyone in the NFL is fast?
Toney didn't take steps back. Dude did barely anything his first season outside of catching a wide open TD in the Super Bowl and then everyone lost their mind thinking he was somehow going to become WR1.
MVS was what he's been his entire career - a fast dude with terrible hands. Showing out as what you've been your entire career isn't taking a step back either.
Skyy has never looked good with us. He did almost exactly the same things in 2023 that he did in 2022. That's just confirming that he's not a good NFL player despite how he looked coming out of college - it happens.
If you compare stats, they all took steps back (or didn’t improve at all)
2023 MVS had half as many receptions and half as many yards (both the worst of his career) and his catch percentage dropped 1.9% compared to 2022 MVS.
KT played 7 games for us in 2022 and had 171 yards on 14 receptions and had a 82.4 catch rate. In 2023 he played 13 games and had 169 yards on 27 receptions and had a 71.1% catch rate.
Skyy showed the least regression. His stats are basically identical (with two fewer games played in 2023 than 2022) but his catch rate dropped from 66.7% to 55.3%.
Also in fairness, Justin Watson definitely had a better season in 2023 than in 2022.
But the numbers are clear that KT and MVS both took steps back. Skyy did not improve (which he should have given that he was a rookie last year). When more than half of the receiving room is getting worse, I think there could be an issue with the coach.
The entire team's stats were down versus 2022 by over 1000 total yards. So yeah, there's plenty of blame to go around but we still won the fucking Super Bowl.
Why the fuck do you think the stats were down? Lol. I’m not even saying we need to fire embree, but I think he was a problem as a coach last year so I hope he gets better.
The problem is 1 year of sample size. The only receiver he’s been here for the entire development of is Rice and he developed very well. Skyy didn’t develop at all his first year and regressed significantly his second year. I don’t think what probably amounts to a bad pick can be blamed on him in one year. Toney is a complete head case and can’t really be blamed on him either. We knew who MVS was before the season even started.
It’s very hard to say how much or how little impact he has on the offense. And honestly, it won’t matter anytime soon since Andy Reid is gonna be around for a bit. It’s Andy’s offense and Nagy is just the Master’s puppet at this point.
I don't think Nagy doesn't hold people accountable, I just think he does it differently than EB. We all know EB was intense and very "in your face". Nagy seems to be much more calm. But by the end of the season Toney and Skyy Moore basically had zero playing time. That's accountability. They couldn't do what was needed so they lost their jobs.
I think after the Christmas day Raiders game Nagy said publicly they needed to refocus and simplify the offense and that's exactly what they did and the didn't lose another game. The offense looked really sharp in the playoffs and Mahomes looked more comfortable than he did all season. Nagy has to get credit for at least some of that if he is also going to get criticism for what came before.
People also forget EB went through a similar stretch in early 2021 where the offense looked terrible and Mahomes threw a lot of picks. And that was with Hill and a younger Kelce. Mahomes and EB were getting into arguments on the sidelines and so was Kelce. Intensity is good but sometimes it can be a detriment. There have been rumors that the second half collapse in the Bengals AFCCG in '21 were in part due to EB and how he handled the end of the half and halftime.
I think the most important thing here is that Nagy is Mahomes' guy. Pat loves him and that comfort is important. And I do think he runs a good offense. Remember when Alex Smith was an MVP candidate in 2017? That was Nagy as OC.
there were a couple of 4th down plays in OT. im talking about "slides" or something like that. it's in the mic'd up videos where nagy suggests it to mahomes and mahomes says he likes that call. then says if the read isnt there he's going to keep it and run. something like that
There was one fourth down play in OT, it was MVS who walked up to the huddle where Nagy and Mahomes were talking and said "slide keys". It's on video somewhere I'll find it and post it later
Why would he be fired after one year? He seems to have developed Rice well. Not saying I’m sold on him but the idea that Skyy Moore continues to not develop is not really a serious indictment.
Rice was that guy day one. Only thing that changed was Andy and Mahomes trusted him more as the season went on. Embree showed no capacity to improve on the weaknesses of the rest of the squad. KT arguably regressed.
Embree is a joke. Pull up any press conference from last season and it’s obvious why he should be fired.
I think OC in KC with Andy has the head coach is about as small a role as any OC in the NFL.
We all know Andy really is the OC and Nagy is like a quality control/assistant.
Nagy the OC, EB the OC, meh. It doesn't matter much. Andy runs the show.
What I see Nagy as is the guy who brings a shitton of crazy ideas, some that work well and some that fail badly. He also seems like a chill dude the players like to be around. I've heard he also takes plays from the players and works around them in the playbook.
EB seemed like the guy you hate to be around, but made you disciplined and had you work hard just because it made you so angry you had to make him shut the fuck up.
Kinda hard to pinpoint what really changed and what was Embree role in the WR room though. On one side you had Rice being basically the best rookie Andy ever had. One the other Skyy non existent growth (that just seems a mental problem for Skyy though, it's like he has the yips and simply can't handle the NFL) coupled with Toney/MVS complete meltdown and regression. MVS did find his groove back, come playoffs though. Watson was just Watson, as always.
I mean...we won a superbowl. Can't complain too much. The offense had the yips last year for some reason. I think the new signings will help and they'll all have a good reset. It's gonna be 2018-2019 chiefs offense next season.
The thing that irked me the most last year were third/fourth-and-1 calls. Completely inept. If they can turn that around, and have like half of the amount of drops they had last year, this offense is plenty good enough.
It does trace back to Nagy's time with the Bears tho. His short yardage play calls in chicago were baffling. We all know Andy is calling the plays during the game, but I think Nagy has put a lit of his bad short yardage tendencies into the game plan reid is working with.
Last year they won the Superbowl! But it was a rocky road there. I think this upcoming year will be more telling. How can he integrate Worthy and Hollywood? How do we look if Rice is suspended? I don't have my mind made up either way based on 1 year with mostly terrible receivers that lead the league in drops. Let's see how things change this year, but hopefully they don't and we win another SB!
I think Nagy is great, we can get a little vanilla at times but Andy is there to help make the needed adjustments. Nagy got put into a shitshow in Chicago, they did decent too for what they had.
Nagy made Chicago worse. Their successes were based on defense. On offense, Nagy had no idea how to use his players strengths. In his slight defense, he didn't have a ton of talent to work with, but he insisted on using Jordan Howard, a very downhill running back, in an outside zone scheme. As that repeatedly failed, he abandoned the run altogether instead of using Jordan Love properly (which, when he did, was actually really successful, but he didn't care because his game plan was more important than outcomes). His short yardage play calling was trash, routinely trying to get cute on 3rd and 1 with a sweep or reverse instead of, idk, using his downhill running back... As far as trubisky is concerned, not much to say. Trubisky sucked. He got away with a lot of dropped INTs in his "pro bowl" year (which honestly was not pro bowl worthy). But defenses definitely studied the tape in the offseason to be ready for his overthrows to his left side going forward. That said, Nagy bailing on the run game was a terrible thing for a bad qb.
Worse than all that, he routinely threw his players under the bus in press conferences and would double down or deflect when he got called out for his dumb decisions.
Nagy might be alright as an OC within someone else's structure, though I wasn't too fond of the Chiefs short yardage game plan this year, it was very reminiscent of his short yardage plan in Chicago. I'm not a fan but hey, I hope he proves me wrong long term.
I'm not sure. Mahomes kind of went into check-down mode this year and that had to do a lot with the reciever corp, but I can't help but think of the last time KC was a check-down team was with Alex Smith and FUCKING NAGY.
Yeah but Mahomes needed to reel it in a little this year. We didn’t have the WR team to sling it like he loves doing until Scantling remembered how to catch in the playoffs
I like that he uses the slot WR a lot, but I feel like most of the time, the plays he calls are bland and predictable. Underneath routes and shallow drives way too often.
The plays that do work are clearly big red's
I don't get the impression he is a rah-rah coach like EB. If Andy was/is always calling plays I am not sure what he brings. I guess hiring the offensive coaches. WR coach is the big one that many fans pointed out as a weak point and I am surprised we did not address that. If that truly is an issue, its going to come out this year. Winning the SB hides a lot.
I guess the question is who is available and also better than Nagy. We have even done well with Kafka gone - who I thought would be a big loss.
Nagy is awful. Offense was out of step all season and it was all excuses. I watched a press conference half way through the season and Nagy was talking about how dudes were still learning basics like where to line up and all I could think was “What the fuck? You should’ve fixed that by now.”
I can imagine. At a certain point if your coaching approach/system is so complex that professional football players who have been doing this for years can’t figure it out, it’s on you.
I'm pretty sure if we didn't win the Super Bowl Nagy would have been fired. Those first 2 1/2 quarters were a piss-poor offensive performance on all fronts, honestly on par with SB55. Thankfully we clutched up after that but it was only possible because of our defense and special teams keeping us in the game.
This year will be a good litmus test since our offense is a lot better on paper. If they somehow do worse (and we won't win this year if they are) then Nagy's gone.
Counterpoint, the parts of the game you mentioned 49ers defense was balling and it took some time for Andy to figure them out, once he did, smooth sailing. Just like the first one against them and the one against the eagles.
I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. Especially after watching him on the sidelines in The Franchise during the playoff run. We were a pretty damn potent offense with him as OC before, so there’s no reason for me to doubt we can’t be again. I think most of last season was the personnel and we were hamstrung by that, which led to suspect play calling because of a lack of trust. That being said, with our off season additions, if we don’t come out substantially better this season (barring injury), then I think the conversation can be had to go a different direction.
Fine as long Andy calls the plays and designs the offense. They figured out how to work around the WR problems last year eventually. If the offense looks bad again this year I think we can start to worry about him.
I have my eye on the running game. A lot of darts there. Reminds me of the WR group last year where they're hoping someone will step forward to pair with Pacheco.
I'm nota CEH hater, but he's far worse than other RB2 around the league.
I'm mostly worried about a Pacheco injury, especially towards the end of the season.
Dude is not that bad. He might not be as good as other RB committees, and no he wasn’t worth a first round pick, but I believe he’s gotten better and clearly the front office sees a role for him going forward.
I guess it's a matter of opinion, unless you have some data to back that up. Happy to have my mind changed. I like the guy and root for him. I just don't remember him doing much of anything when he's in the game last year. RB is probably our weakest position group on the whole roster. Didn't think that was a controversial statement, but here we are.
I think Nagy is very underrated and had an impossible job of making Toney, MVS and Moore work. Sorry but that one’s on Veach not Nagy. Personnel disaster.
Having a winning record in Chicago with 2 bust QB’s is hella impressive too.
Never understood the Nagy hate.
I agree with you he had a handicap last season. Veach has done a great job with the roster, but receiver hasn't been a strong position for us. I'm hopeful that rice and worthy are our 1-2 punch and that our one year rental on hollywood brown works out as well as our one year rental of juju.
The multiple sideline huddles in-game for the offense were definitely concerning. While I do miss some of the grit EB would bring, it’s a different group every year so I can’t say it was a lack of discipline.
I think it’s safe to say that we all agree Nagy isn’t calling most of the plays, so in my mind as the OC he should have the communication lines between position coaches clear at all times as their priority, and eventually it materialized.
Just like with EB, Andy calls the plays that work and Nagy calls the ones that don't. /s
Accurate. Someone’s gotta take the blame and it can’t be Andy /s
I’m actually wondering if the beginning of the season Nagy didn’t have more control
Agreed I think making things more 'simple' around week 12 last season was a nagy call I have no proof just a feeling
so the EB situation all over again. You're just shamelessly looking for a scapegoat. Reid calls the plays.
Totally a tangent here but I get a kick out of when a play falls apart or clearly doesn't work, Mahomes does insane magic, and they squeak out a TD or first down. Then the camera switches to Reid looking in his playsheet like "great that play worked perfectly, I'm a genius, which brilliant play from my master mind should I call next..."
The truth is that Andy calls the plays, Nagy is the coach responsible for installing the gameplan and making sure offensive players are, you know, *coordinated* and executing.
this is the way
Indifferent. I still can't fucking believe that Embree is the WR coach still.
True BUT Rice did great last year. His list of WRs he’s developed is quite low tho.
I was on the Embree hate train most of the season, but Rice did very much improve as the season went on and became a huge part of the offense year 1. It was disappointing to see Toney/Skyy hyped and be so bad, but maybe they just aren’t good? I’m not sure who can really help Toney, as he doesn’t seem to want to work himself. Skyy just seems too small and not NFL caliber truly, he maybe fits in as a slot guy somewhere else but like we saw with Rice, someone can fill that slot so much better. MVS was in the offense the year prior and regressed and is still a FA. Watson was a PS guy until he came to KC and hasn’t done bad. Looking back on the year, it’s hard to blame Embree for the development of the others when the lack of talent was clear in the WR room past Rice, Hardman and MVS still aren’t signed and probably take cheap backup roles elsewhere right before camp. If the room is still not good with an added Hollywood/Worthy, then I’ll go back on the train, but he should get some leeway for Rice at least rn.
Based on his interview that was making the rounds last year, it just didn't seem like Embree likely contributed anything of value. I just imagine "ok guys let's have a good practice today" "great catch Rice keep it up" at the practices and nothing more.
Skyy’s route running is as bad as it gets. Everything is a parabola to him, he’s incapable of making any sort of cut. It’s incredible to see legitimately no development
And sometimes if he knows the ball is out of reach, he’ll either slow his route or stop altogether which causes interceptions. Saw that a couple times last year.
Which I can see the hate for Embree there but after 2 years of Skyy, he just looks like a kid in college who did well vs smaller conference competition and isn’t cut out for NFL guys fully. Hes not fast enough in game speed for his size, doesn’t run the routes too well, and cant catch anything that’s not in his chest due to his small size. Can blame Embree but he may just be a full whiff of a pick, he maybe carves out a WR4 role in the future, but I’m out on ever thinking he’s gonna be a starting WR no matter who takes him in the NFL and develops him.
>Which I can see the hate for Embree there but after 2 years of Skyy, he just looks like a kid in college who did well vs smaller conference competition and isn’t cut out for NFL guys fully. At this point I still wasn't sure if you were talking about Skyy or Embree.
Wasn’t the hype around him coming out of college his crisp routes and ability to get separation? What the hell happened, other than everyone in the NFL is fast?
It’s not confirmed but it potentially might be the shitty locker room, according to sources and Rap
Rice was great, but MVS, Toney, and Skyy all clearly took steps back. I don’t think that’s a coincidence.
Toney didn't take steps back. Dude did barely anything his first season outside of catching a wide open TD in the Super Bowl and then everyone lost their mind thinking he was somehow going to become WR1. MVS was what he's been his entire career - a fast dude with terrible hands. Showing out as what you've been your entire career isn't taking a step back either. Skyy has never looked good with us. He did almost exactly the same things in 2023 that he did in 2022. That's just confirming that he's not a good NFL player despite how he looked coming out of college - it happens.
That everyone included the Chiefs coaching staff
If you compare stats, they all took steps back (or didn’t improve at all) 2023 MVS had half as many receptions and half as many yards (both the worst of his career) and his catch percentage dropped 1.9% compared to 2022 MVS. KT played 7 games for us in 2022 and had 171 yards on 14 receptions and had a 82.4 catch rate. In 2023 he played 13 games and had 169 yards on 27 receptions and had a 71.1% catch rate. Skyy showed the least regression. His stats are basically identical (with two fewer games played in 2023 than 2022) but his catch rate dropped from 66.7% to 55.3%. Also in fairness, Justin Watson definitely had a better season in 2023 than in 2022. But the numbers are clear that KT and MVS both took steps back. Skyy did not improve (which he should have given that he was a rookie last year). When more than half of the receiving room is getting worse, I think there could be an issue with the coach.
The entire team's stats were down versus 2022 by over 1000 total yards. So yeah, there's plenty of blame to go around but we still won the fucking Super Bowl.
Why the fuck do you think the stats were down? Lol. I’m not even saying we need to fire embree, but I think he was a problem as a coach last year so I hope he gets better.
So one out of how many? Is Rice good because of Embree or in spite of him? Plus Rice got into a lot of shit in the offseason.
I can. It’s not like he had anything to work with last year instead of Rice, and he developed great. Can’t make shit shine.
The problem is 1 year of sample size. The only receiver he’s been here for the entire development of is Rice and he developed very well. Skyy didn’t develop at all his first year and regressed significantly his second year. I don’t think what probably amounts to a bad pick can be blamed on him in one year. Toney is a complete head case and can’t really be blamed on him either. We knew who MVS was before the season even started.
When the entire WR group takes a step back like it did last year, that is likely bad coaching.
It’s very hard to say how much or how little impact he has on the offense. And honestly, it won’t matter anytime soon since Andy Reid is gonna be around for a bit. It’s Andy’s offense and Nagy is just the Master’s puppet at this point.
I don't think Nagy doesn't hold people accountable, I just think he does it differently than EB. We all know EB was intense and very "in your face". Nagy seems to be much more calm. But by the end of the season Toney and Skyy Moore basically had zero playing time. That's accountability. They couldn't do what was needed so they lost their jobs. I think after the Christmas day Raiders game Nagy said publicly they needed to refocus and simplify the offense and that's exactly what they did and the didn't lose another game. The offense looked really sharp in the playoffs and Mahomes looked more comfortable than he did all season. Nagy has to get credit for at least some of that if he is also going to get criticism for what came before. People also forget EB went through a similar stretch in early 2021 where the offense looked terrible and Mahomes threw a lot of picks. And that was with Hill and a younger Kelce. Mahomes and EB were getting into arguments on the sidelines and so was Kelce. Intensity is good but sometimes it can be a detriment. There have been rumors that the second half collapse in the Bengals AFCCG in '21 were in part due to EB and how he handled the end of the half and halftime. I think the most important thing here is that Nagy is Mahomes' guy. Pat loves him and that comfort is important. And I do think he runs a good offense. Remember when Alex Smith was an MVP candidate in 2017? That was Nagy as OC.
nagy did suggest the 4th-down play in overtime, so there's that
Its literally on tape that MVS did that
there were a couple of 4th down plays in OT. im talking about "slides" or something like that. it's in the mic'd up videos where nagy suggests it to mahomes and mahomes says he likes that call. then says if the read isnt there he's going to keep it and run. something like that
There was one fourth down play in OT, it was MVS who walked up to the huddle where Nagy and Mahomes were talking and said "slide keys". It's on video somewhere I'll find it and post it later
ok, had to check. you're right it was mvs. thought it was nagy until you mentioned it. mvs deserves a statue
What I really want to know is if we still have the same wr coach
So far, yes we do.
Why would he be fired after one year? He seems to have developed Rice well. Not saying I’m sold on him but the idea that Skyy Moore continues to not develop is not really a serious indictment.
Rice was that guy day one. Only thing that changed was Andy and Mahomes trusted him more as the season went on. Embree showed no capacity to improve on the weaknesses of the rest of the squad. KT arguably regressed. Embree is a joke. Pull up any press conference from last season and it’s obvious why he should be fired.
Did he develop Rice or is that rice being a competent wr?
We keep winning super bowls so let’s gooooooooo!
I think OC in KC with Andy has the head coach is about as small a role as any OC in the NFL. We all know Andy really is the OC and Nagy is like a quality control/assistant. Nagy the OC, EB the OC, meh. It doesn't matter much. Andy runs the show.
What I see Nagy as is the guy who brings a shitton of crazy ideas, some that work well and some that fail badly. He also seems like a chill dude the players like to be around. I've heard he also takes plays from the players and works around them in the playbook. EB seemed like the guy you hate to be around, but made you disciplined and had you work hard just because it made you so angry you had to make him shut the fuck up. Kinda hard to pinpoint what really changed and what was Embree role in the WR room though. On one side you had Rice being basically the best rookie Andy ever had. One the other Skyy non existent growth (that just seems a mental problem for Skyy though, it's like he has the yips and simply can't handle the NFL) coupled with Toney/MVS complete meltdown and regression. MVS did find his groove back, come playoffs though. Watson was just Watson, as always.
Hey buddy we won the SB. Whatever they're doing, just keep on doing it hahaha
It's a nothingburger. We won the superbowl. He's just there. Mahomes & Reid are the OC's.
I think fans don’t understand the details of how the team works. We can just see that it does work. If Andy is happy with Nagy, I am ticked pink.
I haven't thought about him much at all, honestly.
I feel like winning the Super Bowl as an OC is a pretty good was to keep your job, even if you are a wide receivers coach.
I mean...we won a superbowl. Can't complain too much. The offense had the yips last year for some reason. I think the new signings will help and they'll all have a good reset. It's gonna be 2018-2019 chiefs offense next season.
The thing that irked me the most last year were third/fourth-and-1 calls. Completely inept. If they can turn that around, and have like half of the amount of drops they had last year, this offense is plenty good enough.
Chiefs being inept on 3rd and short isn't exclusively to last year only.
It does trace back to Nagy's time with the Bears tho. His short yardage play calls in chicago were baffling. We all know Andy is calling the plays during the game, but I think Nagy has put a lit of his bad short yardage tendencies into the game plan reid is working with.
I think the offense was less disciplined under Nagy
Last year they won the Superbowl! But it was a rocky road there. I think this upcoming year will be more telling. How can he integrate Worthy and Hollywood? How do we look if Rice is suspended? I don't have my mind made up either way based on 1 year with mostly terrible receivers that lead the league in drops. Let's see how things change this year, but hopefully they don't and we win another SB!
I think Nagy is great, we can get a little vanilla at times but Andy is there to help make the needed adjustments. Nagy got put into a shitshow in Chicago, they did decent too for what they had.
Nagy made Chicago worse. Their successes were based on defense. On offense, Nagy had no idea how to use his players strengths. In his slight defense, he didn't have a ton of talent to work with, but he insisted on using Jordan Howard, a very downhill running back, in an outside zone scheme. As that repeatedly failed, he abandoned the run altogether instead of using Jordan Love properly (which, when he did, was actually really successful, but he didn't care because his game plan was more important than outcomes). His short yardage play calling was trash, routinely trying to get cute on 3rd and 1 with a sweep or reverse instead of, idk, using his downhill running back... As far as trubisky is concerned, not much to say. Trubisky sucked. He got away with a lot of dropped INTs in his "pro bowl" year (which honestly was not pro bowl worthy). But defenses definitely studied the tape in the offseason to be ready for his overthrows to his left side going forward. That said, Nagy bailing on the run game was a terrible thing for a bad qb. Worse than all that, he routinely threw his players under the bus in press conferences and would double down or deflect when he got called out for his dumb decisions. Nagy might be alright as an OC within someone else's structure, though I wasn't too fond of the Chiefs short yardage game plan this year, it was very reminiscent of his short yardage plan in Chicago. I'm not a fan but hey, I hope he proves me wrong long term.
Offense looked bad last year. Maybe it was roster, maybe it was coaching. We'll know more this year with the WR additions.
I'm not sure. Mahomes kind of went into check-down mode this year and that had to do a lot with the reciever corp, but I can't help but think of the last time KC was a check-down team was with Alex Smith and FUCKING NAGY.
Yeah but Mahomes needed to reel it in a little this year. We didn’t have the WR team to sling it like he loves doing until Scantling remembered how to catch in the playoffs
I think he's fine. It's Connor Embree I'm more concerned about.
Ya like play action?
I like that he uses the slot WR a lot, but I feel like most of the time, the plays he calls are bland and predictable. Underneath routes and shallow drives way too often. The plays that do work are clearly big red's
I need to see a more disciplined offense week in and week out.
He's better than I would be.
Accurate. I’m a bumbling oaf.
I don't get the impression he is a rah-rah coach like EB. If Andy was/is always calling plays I am not sure what he brings. I guess hiring the offensive coaches. WR coach is the big one that many fans pointed out as a weak point and I am surprised we did not address that. If that truly is an issue, its going to come out this year. Winning the SB hides a lot. I guess the question is who is available and also better than Nagy. We have even done well with Kafka gone - who I thought would be a big loss.
 Nagy is awful. Offense was out of step all season and it was all excuses. I watched a press conference half way through the season and Nagy was talking about how dudes were still learning basics like where to line up and all I could think was “What the fuck? You should’ve fixed that by now.”
Nagy blamed his players in Chicago all the time in press conferences. It was a bad look.
I can imagine. At a certain point if your coaching approach/system is so complex that professional football players who have been doing this for years can’t figure it out, it’s on you.
I'm pretty sure if we didn't win the Super Bowl Nagy would have been fired. Those first 2 1/2 quarters were a piss-poor offensive performance on all fronts, honestly on par with SB55. Thankfully we clutched up after that but it was only possible because of our defense and special teams keeping us in the game. This year will be a good litmus test since our offense is a lot better on paper. If they somehow do worse (and we won't win this year if they are) then Nagy's gone.
Counterpoint, the parts of the game you mentioned 49ers defense was balling and it took some time for Andy to figure them out, once he did, smooth sailing. Just like the first one against them and the one against the eagles.
Maybe, but at least in those games we scored more than 3 points by halftime.
I’m willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. Especially after watching him on the sidelines in The Franchise during the playoff run. We were a pretty damn potent offense with him as OC before, so there’s no reason for me to doubt we can’t be again. I think most of last season was the personnel and we were hamstrung by that, which led to suspect play calling because of a lack of trust. That being said, with our off season additions, if we don’t come out substantially better this season (barring injury), then I think the conversation can be had to go a different direction.
Fine as long Andy calls the plays and designs the offense. They figured out how to work around the WR problems last year eventually. If the offense looks bad again this year I think we can start to worry about him. I have my eye on the running game. A lot of darts there. Reminds me of the WR group last year where they're hoping someone will step forward to pair with Pacheco.
CEH can pair with Pacheco. He’s more than fine as the RB2.
I'm nota CEH hater, but he's far worse than other RB2 around the league. I'm mostly worried about a Pacheco injury, especially towards the end of the season.
Dude is not that bad. He might not be as good as other RB committees, and no he wasn’t worth a first round pick, but I believe he’s gotten better and clearly the front office sees a role for him going forward.
I guess it's a matter of opinion, unless you have some data to back that up. Happy to have my mind changed. I like the guy and root for him. I just don't remember him doing much of anything when he's in the game last year. RB is probably our weakest position group on the whole roster. Didn't think that was a controversial statement, but here we are.
I think Nagy is very underrated and had an impossible job of making Toney, MVS and Moore work. Sorry but that one’s on Veach not Nagy. Personnel disaster. Having a winning record in Chicago with 2 bust QB’s is hella impressive too. Never understood the Nagy hate.
I agree with you he had a handicap last season. Veach has done a great job with the roster, but receiver hasn't been a strong position for us. I'm hopeful that rice and worthy are our 1-2 punch and that our one year rental on hollywood brown works out as well as our one year rental of juju.
The multiple sideline huddles in-game for the offense were definitely concerning. While I do miss some of the grit EB would bring, it’s a different group every year so I can’t say it was a lack of discipline. I think it’s safe to say that we all agree Nagy isn’t calling most of the plays, so in my mind as the OC he should have the communication lines between position coaches clear at all times as their priority, and eventually it materialized.
He is about as impactful as the guy that Denver had when Manning was there.