This congress they can. Democrats are automatically pro Disney for their woke nonsense in Florida, and republicans tend to be traitors for the right price.
They’d need too many Republican votes, and they’re never going to get enough to pass the house, or to invoke cloture in the senate, due to Disney’s entrance into the culture war against FL’s anti-woke school laws.
These days, it’d be career suicide for a Republican to support any bill that Disney was pushing.
There's been a a growing movement of the leftists to threaten their opposition with increasingly explicit forms of violence, they'll be happy to co-opt
"To do evil a human being must first of all believe that what he’s doing is good, or else that it’s a well-considered act in conformity with natural law. Fortunately, it is in the nature of the human being to seek a justification for his actions.
Ideology – that is what gives evil doing its long-sought justification and gives the evildoer the necessary steadfastness and determination. That is the social theory which helps to make his acts seem good instead of bad in his own and others’ eyes, so that he won’t hear reproaches and curses but will receive praise and honors. That was how the agents of the Inquisition fortified their wills: by invoking Christianity; the conquerors of foreign lands, by extolling the grandeur of their Motherland; the colonizers, by civilization; the Nazis, by race; and the Jacobins (early and late), by equality, brotherhood, and the happiness of future generations.
Thanks to ideology, the 20th century was fated to experience evildoing on a scale calculated in the millions. This cannot be denied, nor passed over, nor suppressed. How, then, do we dare insist that evildoers do not exist? And who was it that destroyed these millions? Without evildoers there would have been no archipelago."
Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
I'm convinced that the majority of current writers at the big two either hate the characters or just shoehorn them into the YA stories that they really want to write. The latter gives them a bigger audience than just libraries so they can make rent.
"I don't understand! I've injected these comics with partisan politics, expressed my personal hangups, given every character my daddy issues, and focused the stories around my abuse and cuckery kinks! Why is my entire run being outsold by single issues of brand new manga?!"
It's very clear Jason Aaron hates the Punisher, theres even an entire page of his words afterward about how much he basically hates the punisher. retconning his entire backstory and the character assassination/emasculation in the end was so awful
Just to be clear, Frank shooting Bad Guys is bad, but all the Marvel Superheroes beating each other up again over something stupid and all the horrible shenanigans Mutants get up to is a-ok?
> Punisher #12, by Jason Aaron, Jesùs Saiz, Paul Azaceta, and Matt Hollingsworth, marks the conclusion of the most recent ongoing series starring Frank Castle as the protagonist, with a story aptly titled "Punisher no More". After the Punisher is captured by the Avengers, he is waiting for his judgment in a cell in Dr. Strange's Sanctum. Frank is visited by the heroes one by one, but they all fail in making him feel even a shred of remorse. However, when Maria finally tells Frank that she was going to divorce him before she was killed and that she completely rejects everything he did "in her name", the Punisher is finally broken. Frank summons the last remnants of the Beast's power and turns the demonic flames on himself, in what looks like a fiery suicide.
Yeah, Marvel is completely cucked at this point. I'm just hoping they'll go after every male character who's even remotely edgy so I can watch them tank their fucking shit into the grave.
Edit: Also my fellow nerds, let me tell you that this is a wake-up call for all of you. Stop buying their shit, stop WATCHING their shit, stop playing their shit and feeding them. It's time we moved on everyone, sure, we'll mourn what was and how good it was. But move on we will. Whatever happens from now on, they did kill the Punisher. When some indie person inevitably creates something along the same lines, but edgier, I want to read about it here first.
Edit2: So I see this has a misleading flair which is bullshit. They're literally putting him into a fucking alternate dimension after assassinating him as a character by having all the other characters collectively shit on him, including his fucking wife brought back from the goddamn dead. There's even a trope for this called [Put on a bus](https://tropedia.fandom.com/wiki/Put_on_a_Bus) that explains how this works. So yes, **they are getting rid of him** and if they ever bring him back, he'll be the safest cuck you ever saw.
According to the article, the Punisher's story was retconned enough to completely change his motivation. One from anguished revenge to the loss of his family by criminals to one of murderous mayhem to appease his bloodlust.
Whoever the author is obviously hated the character and simply turned him into something to hate or pity rather than sympathize and root for.
Marvel can fail ... Just like DC. All woke garbage
> Whoever the author is obviously hated the character and simply turned him into something to hate or pity rather than sympathize and root for.
Jason Aaron, he's done this exact same shit to Thor, She-Hulk, Valkyrie, iirc he ruined some of the Avengers as well during his run there and now he's completed his work on Punisher
And this is why the whole concept of authors relinquishing the rights to a character to their publisher is abysmally dysfunctional.
Let an author of a BD, comic book, book, whatever, do his/her thing, and once done, let the IP rest in piece. It was good, move on, create something new, not a stupid multiverse, because at some point, some asshole is going to shit on the IP.
I think this is how it works with manga. As far as I know, authors retain ownership of their characters, which is why something like Astro Boy hasn't been in continuous production for the last seventy years. It's cool that we have these superheroes like batman that have been around for generations, but I can't help but wonder if it would have been better to let the stories run their course and move on to something new.
> And this is why the whole concept of authors relinquishing the rights to a character to their publisher is abysmally dysfunctional.
I still like that it's an option. I like when there are multiple systems in place that create different ecosystems.
I really don't understand the marvel/DC system of having the same characters and just rewriting them over and over? Can't they just write new characters and stories?
No, they can't. They would if they could do.
Part of the problem is that good characters are formed from traits and ideas that people are intended to admire, or dislike. They often have an internal struggle, a weakness they cannot resolve, which gives them a sort of nobility and makes them relatable.
So these characters are archetypes of certain ideas, which means they keep getting reframed and reused to speak to modern culture. The Punisher is the anti-hero archetype of uncompromising revenge and anger. His moral ambiguity often brings him into conflict with less dark heroes and often threatens to destroy him completely.
Woke writers can't really do any of that. They want the hero worship, but not to have justify it or put a price on it. Because that leads to objectivity. Actually weighing the good against the bad of a character, rather than just letting them do whatever suits their emotional state and then praising that as good.
Without the ability to create or use archetypes they mostly just criticise them. Write an essay on what's supposed to be wrong with a character and then destroy it.
There are only so many stories that can be told and the current writers aren't terribly imaginative. The comic company's don't want to give up on established brands/ icons.
> One from anguished revenge to the loss of his family by criminals to one of murderous mayhem to appease his bloodlust.
This was a thing since MAX though
> This was a thing since MAX though
It was a thing BEFORE that too. In the pages of 1999's Captain Marvel title, it's revealed that Punisher kills a man in front of his kid & discovers that the kid will one day grow up to seek vengeance & murder Frank.... So what does Frank do? Does he stop & think "wait, i'm not the hero in my story, i'm the villain in other peoples stories?"
Nope, he just up & murders the kid to save himself.
No idea, but I'm not really eager to find out to be perfectly honest. This whole issue just sounds like character assassination or a reboot where he's somehow a goodie two-shoes. Either way, it's completely uninteresting to me.
Becuase frank is a straight white man whos symbol has been adopted by police and military, so ofc these writers need to destroy the fictional character.
This is the biggest (perhaps only?) motivator for Marvel to get rid of the Punisher.
If he wasn't beloved by the police and military, Marvel would have him grow and change emotionally. They would have kept milking the Punisher cow for a long, long time.
In the timeline I remember Frank was a Vietnam vet and well some [shit went down](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/marveldatabase/images/6/6f/Frank_Castle_%28Earth-200111%29_from_Born_Vol_1_4_0001.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20150815162738) during his tour. Criminals killing his family removed all the restrictions from a man with quite a skillset for a payback.
That's the Frank I know though, I'm sure besides dozen different iterations they have retconned and fucked him over twice that number just in the last 10 years out of spite. Hell, probably the one I know isn't the original Punisher.
Wouldn't be the first time current year comics did a retcon like that. Geoff John's god awful Three Jokers book decided to retcon the Killing Joke so that that the comedian was a violent abusive asshole even before bathing in a chemical spill, and that his wife actually faked her death to get away from him.
Yeah, I was excited for that storyline, and that reveal made me glad I didn't buy it. I'm poor, so when I do get around to buying books, it's usually after the run is over. I don't mind spoilers for 6 of things, so I'll get them regardless of whether I already know the gist of what happened. It saves me money if it ends up being crap.
Yes, but not anymore.
According to this latest retcon, Frank was always a violently unstable psychopath even as a kid. No explanation how someone so cracked could draw someone like Maria, join the Marines, or be remembered so fondly by everyone that knew him before... but none of that matters when you're committing blatant character assassination!
And these writers wonder why manga is eating them alive.
He doesn't exist outside of his Netflix series, they will continue to keep him from ever existing again. We got a new (very likely cucked) Daredevil show coming but NOTHING for Punisher.
Keeping his Netflix show out of the MCU is for the best, he never fit in with the Cape shit going on.
Doing his thing without some superhero showing up.
They've killed him off a few times, electrocuted by SHIELD, but it was a fake out, he had his next story undercover with the mafia.
But he also had a stint where he became a literal angel and could pull infinite guns out of his coat.
So now they've teamed him up with some demonic powers?
The stuff on MAX from 2005 or so, those trades are what he should be.
And that's such a depressing thought. Jon Bernthal's Frank was damn near perfect in the Netflix series, and I'm dreading the fact that Disney is definitely going to turn him into the Social Justice Punisher. Ugh.
Honestly, the more they feel emboldened to be open about their violent fantasies, the faster reasonable people will be able to turn against social justice regressives.
>However, when Maria finally tells Frank that she was going to divorce him before she was killed and that she completely rejects everything he did "in her name", the Punisher is finally broken.
These people are evil man holy shit
> Isn’t Wolverine in a throuple now?
ya, with the Hickman x-men run, all the mutants are basically sexual deviants or something now -_-
they legit made Cyclops, Wolverine and Jean into a throuple (and going all the way such that they even implied Scott and Logan were into each other as well) that I think even included Emma, though I long since stopped reading that garbage long ago
like fine, have a poly relationship with some characters, but these idiots thought these were the characters to do it with? the whole dynamic and history of Wolverine, Cyclops and Jean was thrown out the window for this dumb writing
Weird how Marvel is saying X-Men are suppossed to represent oppressed groups like black community and alphabet community. Are they saying that blacks and gays are sexual deviants? Unintended racism sure is funny.
lol, not just that... the x-men are basically a fascist state after the Hickman reboot, like legit straight up that's what they are and how they are acting, led by Professor X and Magneto
they have shit like inviting x-men villains (like freaking apocalypse) into the "mutant state", having a death cult ceremony, all the x-men characters are acting OOC (nothing like what said characters are supposed to be), the whole "whoever dies can be reborn" thing and so on
it's just crazy stuff, and not the good crazy but that wtf is this shit crazy.
What really sets me off is when people say they aren't villians when in HoX and PoX when thr bad guys joined charles was suprised that Apocalypse joined and Apocalypse simply said "why should it be? you have finally seen things my way now"
You know the eugenicist darwinist religous fanatic who sees himself as a god?
can look up "Hickman's X-men" run when he started, believe it was back in 2019 or something, where they did this. If you want to subject yourself to this trash, you can probably find all the comic issues on readcomiconline pirate site.
but ya, Hickman basically rebooted the x-men into basically a fascist state with every character acting OOC, and the garbage writers took hold of his work and made it even worse.
> Punisher #12, by Jason Aaron
by Jason Aaron, of course it's this dude.
this fcker has been involved in destroying so many of marvel's heroes now: Thor, She-Hulk, Punisher, Valkyrie and w.e else I'm forgetting this dude worked on.
and at the same time, he's pushed his weird obsession characters like Jane Foster into the forefront of everything, making her out to be the "best thor there ever was", the all-mother of Asgard before any actual Asgardian (legit made no sense when it happened) and then killed of all the Valkyries to push Jane as the "last and bestest Valkyrie evar!"
then he did the usual of taunting and hating on the customers and readers who all hated what he was doing, acting like he was right and shit like his version of she-hulk (that legit even the media hated) was the "best version" and so on -_-
ya this dude is awful, iirc all his runs with these characters have been low-selling, unpopular garbage.
>When some indie person inevitably creates something along the same lines, but edgier, I want to read about it here first.
Its called Private American and the usual people who hate their own comics and dont want better onrs actually sabotaged it from selling it because it was "racist"
I don't think people realize how wildly different live action characters are compared to their comic counterparts hell Netflix Punisher doesn't even act like comic Frank. Look how different live action and other media treat Spider-Man compared to his comic counterpart it's night and day. Imo there is no 'woke garbage' just bad writing that has and always will exist no matter the ere or media.
Yeah, as something of a Punisher-purist I thought Bernthal was a little too much of a thug in the Netflix version.
And the conversation with Micro about dick sizes was more than I could bear.
I was into 90's punisher which was more John Wick/Jack Reacher. Wish they could go back to the calculated killer.
I really enjoyed the Thomas Jane Punisher movie. That was my introduction to the character. I like how he was very methodical, and the final battle of the movie was very one sided in his favor. It was a nice change of pace from the usual.
In the Netflix series, it just got old pretty quickly how he was constantly charging in like a bull in a china shop and how he always looked like an amateur boxer who recently had a match against a prime Mike Tyson.
I hope they fucking do. There's no way the current marvel can write a good punisher story. Retire him for good, for once and for all. The last thing I want to see is that the punisher comes back as a woke version, I don't want to see Puni(she/her). Of course, we all know nobody stays dead in comics, so it's all pointless.
Nah, because then they'd have a "feminist icon" who's whole shtick is vigilante justice, and they can't have that. She'd have to... fuck I don't know, be some sort of "sex worker" and activists who helps "disadvantaged black youth" by lecturing white heterosexual men about their "privilege."
I remember Punisher teamed up with this woman on a similar revenge kick and they ran into Spider-man who stupidly asked “Frank, are you dating again?” That was pretty good.
what do you think they will do after this my guy. Remember what happened to thor, they didn't just break him down emotionally and emasculate him they replaced him with a woman aswell. The same thing will happen to the punisher, just watch gwenpool will be the next punisher im calling it.
The Left: COPS USE THE PUNISHER SKULL! BOYCOTT!
Marvel: You don't buy our comics anyway...
The Left: WE'LL CALL YOU BIGOTS AND RACISTS IF YOU DON'T!
Marvel: \*ends Punisher\*
I like how they think this is going to make the Punisher less popular though. The overwhelming majority of people rocking Punisher merch barely know who he is. They only know what he does, and only as broad strokes.
So you are still going to be seeing cops and soldiers rocking Punisher skulls (remember when they got rid of that too?), and not even be aware Marvel did this.
They don’t care about action or results though, they just want to LOOK like they tried to affect change so they can just shrug and say “not our problem” when people cry about punisher stickers.
Remember when the wokes thought that the creator of Pepe the Frog killing Pepe would stop all those 4Chan MAGA Chuds from ever using him again?
How did that work out?
> Obviously death in a comic book won't stick,
More so given the Punisher didn't die at the end of that comic, he just teleported to Weird World.... It even shows it in the comic book.
I just want to point out that Wal-Mart is currently selling Punisher shirts with the classic skull logo. Disney is supposedly "erasing" The Punisher's legacy while simultaneously profiting off of it.
Fucking us from both ends.
Edit: Although I wonder if sites like ebay and Amazon are going to ban Punisher shirts like they did Confederate flag shirts.
That is what this is all about. Capital offering trendy rebellion and co-opting any actual critique of our escalating dystopia. Catering to virtue-signalling and vanity works for both the girlboss and brotard executives as it does the screechers on twitter.
If this industry was truly about racking profits and not cultural vandalism (and Marxism) they would have doubled down on characters like the Punisher, perhaps making them even edgier and adding subtle mockery of the SJW movement.
They would have sold those comics like hot cakes.
I read The Punisher in the 90’s and loved the character, had posters in my room. While he had soft reboots, the original one was always top. Also in the 90’s they had swimsuit editions of the X-Men. None of that would fly now and they had to adjust to modern feelings. I wish they could go back to having marvel lines for all ages and having adult books with characters who were morally conflicted like The Punisher again
Now prove you are not just virtue signaling, relinquish control over the copyright.
What? You wanna just pretend while sitting on the IP so you can bring it back in 3 years? Yeah.
The article points out that they're cucking him hardcore by making him "nice". He'll be "reimagined for a *modern* audience" and I bet his wife will be retconned into a black lesbian and he'll be rampantly gay and "so in touch with his FEELINGS".
Sounds like the indie market just got a giant hole to fill.
And these companies wonder why a single manga can outsell the entire western comic book industry combined.
Well, after reading beautiful stuff like Gantz and MPD Psycho back in the day, I was hooked. Western comics are just shit nowadays. It's sad to see how fucking far down the ladder it's gone.
Be a veteran? Have vets and cops use the logo? Go after evil people via vigilantism? Be pro 2A?....There's a reason they had him commit suicide aka 22 a day.
Damn it's not like the writing was on the walls. The vapid excuse for story that has been rolling out of Marvel has been so hand-holdingly placative to an audience it doesn't have has been just depressing to watch but also cathartic.
Like seeing a monster beg for water in a dry well at the bottom of a hill and hearing the sound of a large storm rolling in.....They will get what they wanted and drown in it.
Too afraid to push boundries....
Too uncreative to make new IP's with anything but self inserts....
It's all so tiresome and why I gave up US comics in the mid 2010's. Korean webcomics fill the hole pretty well anymore but there will always be gaps that can't be filled.
A complex character with major flaws as a way of examining the nature of violence, vengeance, and other ethical questions? No that's too hard, throw it in the fire
They're working on Japan as we speak. [https://twitter.com/amisweetheart/status/1664878609071501312](https://twitter.com/amisweetheart/status/1664878609071501312)
The Punisher is a great starter rival for most heroes. The fact is, modern writing is crap anyway, but this one character already carried the burden of being a hard sell on his own. His best content involves being an adversary to other heroes, and it just is a sad fact of his existence as an IP.
But if modern writing was not crap, they could use him over and over again like they always have, starring in awkward rivalries and team ups with other heroes. Shooting at Spiderman when Frank gets the dumb idea that Spidey is up to no good, or taking the law into his own hands to bring down some of the Kingpin's thugs. Otherwise, The Punisher sticks out in canon like a sore thumb. Frank ain't high enough level to take on world shaking events, but he is also so gritty that it's hard to work long as a crime drama, needing to mellow out before the bad feels make the readers want to quit.
Not sure how I feel other than "at least they didn't turn him gay during a rape orgy and race swap him" or something, but they may have already done that knowing how crap modern writing is.
>Not sure how I feel other than "at least they didn't turn him gay during a rape orgy and race swap him" or something, but they may have already done that knowing how crap modern writing is
Well I don't know about gay, but they already made Punisher black and all the way back in the 90s. Its... as stupid as it sounds. Also he's been a Frankenstein too.
Yeah, but that was random bad idea crap, not modern writing bad idea crap. Those are two very different types of bad idea crap, and the modern version is way worse.
>His best content involves being an adversary to other heroes, and it just is a sad fact of his existence as an IP.
He's one of the most famous comicbook anti-heroes, but personally I always struggled to see him as even *that* much of a hero. Character just makes a lot more sense as some kind of *villain protagonist*. Murderous rival of actual heroes is a niche that just straight up makes more sense for him, to my mind.
Anything beyond that just feels too much like he has plot armour.
Look on the bright side...they accidentally gave him a big "death" that sticks for a while, the rarest honour for a comic hero.
and then the alphabet crowd will be out on their asses and he'll be back.
the worst parts in the whole dumpster fire that was the hand bullshit and his weirdworld daycare trip was the fact he went through all that just to have his wife tell him she was actually a karen who took all of his money with help from black widow , and retconning everything about frank and his family before their death.
wolverine being a complete hypocrite to his face , black widow of all people moral grandstanding , and i can rant for days about the moon knight wall of text.
fucking wolverine is on krakoa dying and getting resurrected while beast is now worse than dark beast, and the writer doesnt even try to have continuity
even reading it on a pirated website i felt like the author was spitting in the face of all long time marvel comic book readers
Let me get this storyline straight.
A bunch of heroes capture a brutal vigilante and promptly organize a kangaroo court with him as the accused. They tell him how much he sucks in hope they’ll break him into apologizing to them as if they were his victims. They bring his resurrected wife that rejects him publicly, which breaks him to the point where he commits suicide.
This is incredibly petty, cruel, and simultaneously pathetic.
kinda, [here's the whole 12 issue run](https://readcomiconline.li/Comic/Punisher-2022) ( once again use adblocks like ghostery ,abp, ub , minerblocks etc for the love of all thats anything)
the problem is this run decided to deconstruct the punisher and frank castle through flashbacks that contradict many cannon moments , while disregarding the fact that frank has been aware of and dealt with magic in the 616 for an incredibly long time.
he's just out of character the whole run , and the ending teleportation where he technically prays to the beast through bullet totems/fetishes is probably the most glaring part.
the heroes that end up saving him to become his judge and jury pretty much negates what punisher even is at his core , because this means he never once created a single backup plan if things go sideways .
This is why people prefer manga to comics. How many different writers have handled Frank Castle these past 20 years? And how many have handled Naruto? So who is the better and more consistently written character?
Japan is currently cucking at the demand of the good old U S of A, so it won't be long until they're here. [https://twitter.com/amisweetheart/status/1664878609071501312](https://twitter.com/amisweetheart/status/1664878609071501312)
Honestly with the Disneyfication of Marvel i am amazed this didn’t happen earlier. Everything the mouse touches it turns into some corporate approved pink hair in the writers room disaster.
They knew this “woke” reboot would fail so they killed him off because Frank Castle supposedly personified “white rage” and white people should be meek, passive and remorsefully “non violent” nowadays apparently… unless their punishing Republicans , excuse me Nazi’s…
Sucks that such a great character becomes a victim of the culture wars but what does one expect with modern day Disney making the decisions!
I get that the punisher was very problematic. I understand.
But fuck me, that's why he was interesting. He was morally grey and his methods very dubious, and he'd constantly tread the line between hero and villain. Are we just not allowed rich, conflicted characters and stories anymore then? Everything has to be boiled down to squeaky clean virtuous Vs outright evil. It's like we've gone 80 years backwards to golden age comic storylines.
First of all, calling something problematic is wokespeak, just so you know. And if you use their non-descriptive language, you validate their ideology. Call him for what he was, an unrepentant psychopath with a fucked up moral code. Sure, one could argue trauma is the reason for it, but that doesn't justify it, it explains it.
But the normies can't really understand concepts like this. They need it boiled down, simplified, massaged, treated and fucking steamed into a delicious bun or something. It's like their brains are fucking mush at this point. So yeah, let them kill him off and bring him back as something "less problematic" as the wokies would call it. You're right about this being a regression though, we're about 75% into an era of incredible censorship and conformism which is just disgusting.
The inevitable backlash though, oh man, if you thought shit was edgy before, just wait until everyone starts breaking new ground again and testing the boundaries of what's possible to capitalize on.
So you mean at the moment the character is probably in Marvel's version of Hell, to where countless other characters, including Captain America, have come and gone.
Its Marvel, character's are never 'officially' gone until they sell the rights to another company.
Nah man, this is where the new fun begins. So what if they fuck up the Punisher? Just means a new market opened up. There's some comic artist nerd out there with enough edge to pick up the slack and when they do, they won't have the slackjaws over at Marvel or DC watching over their shoulders.
It feels like this was made just to spite classic Punisher fans, who wouldn’t even still be reading at this point.
Also, character-breaking retcons are the hallmark of any poor writer.
I never understand how the punisher is controversial.
He's a realistic guy without any superpowers that's willing to do what the heroes can't do because he got nothing to lose.
The entire John Wick series is already a film about a punisher. And people love it.
Doesn't capeshit marvel constantly kill off their characters and revive them?
Why is this any more final than any other death ever in their repertoire?
Hell they said he's not even dead just in a different dimension.
This just sets up the inevitable return of the punisher as some marry sue / alphabet soup community self insert. Who will spend the entirety of the comic run killing evil awful right wingers trying to keep their children away from the depravity.
Genuine shame, Punisher is the only comic I still regularly read and buy but haven't touched a release since Matthew Rosenberg's run. Guess a good thing can't last forever, like everything else I grew up enjoying.
This era of Marvel seems to be about stories of outsized epic proportions that have to shrivel down to nothing by their resolution so that the next writer can pick up from a pretty neutral spot. I know this is always the way comics are, but we’re seeing anime boob levels of distortion for each characters run. Iron man was a god, frank was a god, the nutty Avenger Prime story that just shovels variants into a furnace like the story is a steam train.
Punisher is 100% coming back, and he may be a bit uncharacteristically tame or even unsure himself in his next iteration (I’m imagining something similar to Gold Goblin,) but that pendulum will swing the other direction when they feel the time is right.
Edit: my biggest confusion on this run was the way they used Area, seemed a bit atypical for his marvel character, but was a cool use of the concept if it’d been his first appearance or something
I mean if they hate the punisher so much rather than getting rid of him why not just bring him back to what he was originally supposed to be when Stan Lee created him Stan lee has said in multiple interviews the punisher was supposed to be an ultraviolent villain a version of what happens when a superhero goes wrong and even while he was alive he always talked about how much he despised the '90s punisher comic line for making him too heroic and how when he made the character the character was supposed to just stay a Spider-Man villain. So why not just bring back the Punisher as a permanent villain like Stan Lee wanted Frank to be.
>why not just bring him back to what he was originally supposed to be
Because he can and has been used in far more interesting ways than just as a member of Spider-Man's rogues gallery. He arguably shouldn't even be in Spider-Man's rogues, he should be a psychological antagonist (not an enemy/rogue) for Daredevil.
Also, Garth Ennis' Punisher MAX run is the best showing of the character. He deserves to be portrayed in a realistic world, not a superhero universe.
That so F Up! I definitely see him dying as a character but suicide. His wife divorced him he commit suicide WTF! Suicide is a big topic.
They could give the character a proper end. Dying in a blazing glory or be stuck on purgatory selling himself to the devil.
The worst thing that could happen to Marvel was getting bought by Disney.
The original Spider Man movies were a lot darker and had more drama. The second Hulk movie was also fantastic and there is no way Disney would allow such a dark Hulk anymore, just look at She-Hulk.
The Punisher on Netflix was great because it was done by people who cared and were not trying to push politics. People are right, maybe is better for Disney not to do a Punisher.
The Punisher was morally complex, like Rorschach from Watchmen (or hell, almost everyone in Watchmen). “Modern audiences” don’t want that, they want clearly defined, black vs white, total good vs total evil. The good ones will be the ones that introduce themselves with their preferred pronouns.
Of course, as usual “modern audiences” is just cover for some combination of “cucked and cowardly creators” and “ESG or related funding pressure.”
Nothing is permanent in comics.
The Punisher will be back when the activists ruining comics are finally kicked to the curb. No telling how long that will be, though.
Prove you're serious and relinquish the copyright. Anything less is just empty virtue signaling.
Nah, they'll want to squat on the IP so that nobody else can adopt the character.
at least that means he will become public domain faster. until Disney forces changes the public domain rules again
wait... again? you mean they did it already?
Yes, specifically for Micky. It was called the 'The Mickey Mouse Protection Act'
Well didn’t work for Winnie the pooh
they still own the red shirted design. Just not the original book one. It is why they gave him a red shirt
I doubt that they’ll be able to ramrod it through congress again.
This congress they can. Democrats are automatically pro Disney for their woke nonsense in Florida, and republicans tend to be traitors for the right price.
They’d need too many Republican votes, and they’re never going to get enough to pass the house, or to invoke cloture in the senate, due to Disney’s entrance into the culture war against FL’s anti-woke school laws. These days, it’d be career suicide for a Republican to support any bill that Disney was pushing.
The Mein Kampf method
mein kampf method?
Yeah, nobody could be the next Hitler until the copyright expired around 2010. Thanks Obama.
He'll come back just before the copy right ends.
Sounds like this was written by a person who hates the character
It was. The modern left hates people who kill monsters in self defense, let alone vigilantes who take the offensive.
There's been a a growing movement of the leftists to threaten their opposition with increasingly explicit forms of violence, they'll be happy to co-opt
"To do evil a human being must first of all believe that what he’s doing is good, or else that it’s a well-considered act in conformity with natural law. Fortunately, it is in the nature of the human being to seek a justification for his actions. Ideology – that is what gives evil doing its long-sought justification and gives the evildoer the necessary steadfastness and determination. That is the social theory which helps to make his acts seem good instead of bad in his own and others’ eyes, so that he won’t hear reproaches and curses but will receive praise and honors. That was how the agents of the Inquisition fortified their wills: by invoking Christianity; the conquerors of foreign lands, by extolling the grandeur of their Motherland; the colonizers, by civilization; the Nazis, by race; and the Jacobins (early and late), by equality, brotherhood, and the happiness of future generations. Thanks to ideology, the 20th century was fated to experience evildoing on a scale calculated in the millions. This cannot be denied, nor passed over, nor suppressed. How, then, do we dare insist that evildoers do not exist? And who was it that destroyed these millions? Without evildoers there would have been no archipelago." Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
Like everyone else who writes comics now
I'm convinced that the majority of current writers at the big two either hate the characters or just shoehorn them into the YA stories that they really want to write. The latter gives them a bigger audience than just libraries so they can make rent.
"I don't understand! I've injected these comics with partisan politics, expressed my personal hangups, given every character my daddy issues, and focused the stories around my abuse and cuckery kinks! Why is my entire run being outsold by single issues of brand new manga?!"
It's very clear Jason Aaron hates the Punisher, theres even an entire page of his words afterward about how much he basically hates the punisher. retconning his entire backstory and the character assassination/emasculation in the end was so awful
Just to be clear, Frank shooting Bad Guys is bad, but all the Marvel Superheroes beating each other up again over something stupid and all the horrible shenanigans Mutants get up to is a-ok?
When cops put Wolverine decals on their cars, they’ll do something about it.
Well I guess it's time to call 4chan back up.... Let's see how many characters they're willing to lose, shall we?
We must awaken the sleeping /b/east
For a troll farm, they are remarkably effective at pushing hoaxes that the media runs with. From the OK sign to milk, they're on quite a roll.
I know about the ok sign by what happen with milk?
https://daily49er.com/opinions/2017/03/13/milk-new-symbol-of-hate/
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Imagine making the fable made specifically to denounce people like you accomodate your ideology.
> Punisher #12, by Jason Aaron, Jesùs Saiz, Paul Azaceta, and Matt Hollingsworth, marks the conclusion of the most recent ongoing series starring Frank Castle as the protagonist, with a story aptly titled "Punisher no More". After the Punisher is captured by the Avengers, he is waiting for his judgment in a cell in Dr. Strange's Sanctum. Frank is visited by the heroes one by one, but they all fail in making him feel even a shred of remorse. However, when Maria finally tells Frank that she was going to divorce him before she was killed and that she completely rejects everything he did "in her name", the Punisher is finally broken. Frank summons the last remnants of the Beast's power and turns the demonic flames on himself, in what looks like a fiery suicide. Yeah, Marvel is completely cucked at this point. I'm just hoping they'll go after every male character who's even remotely edgy so I can watch them tank their fucking shit into the grave. Edit: Also my fellow nerds, let me tell you that this is a wake-up call for all of you. Stop buying their shit, stop WATCHING their shit, stop playing their shit and feeding them. It's time we moved on everyone, sure, we'll mourn what was and how good it was. But move on we will. Whatever happens from now on, they did kill the Punisher. When some indie person inevitably creates something along the same lines, but edgier, I want to read about it here first. Edit2: So I see this has a misleading flair which is bullshit. They're literally putting him into a fucking alternate dimension after assassinating him as a character by having all the other characters collectively shit on him, including his fucking wife brought back from the goddamn dead. There's even a trope for this called [Put on a bus](https://tropedia.fandom.com/wiki/Put_on_a_Bus) that explains how this works. So yes, **they are getting rid of him** and if they ever bring him back, he'll be the safest cuck you ever saw.
It's been a while, but wasn't Frank pretty normal before his family was killed? Why was his wife going to divorce him?
Probably cause she realized she was lesbian or something.
According to the article, the Punisher's story was retconned enough to completely change his motivation. One from anguished revenge to the loss of his family by criminals to one of murderous mayhem to appease his bloodlust. Whoever the author is obviously hated the character and simply turned him into something to hate or pity rather than sympathize and root for. Marvel can fail ... Just like DC. All woke garbage
> Whoever the author is obviously hated the character and simply turned him into something to hate or pity rather than sympathize and root for. Jason Aaron, he's done this exact same shit to Thor, She-Hulk, Valkyrie, iirc he ruined some of the Avengers as well during his run there and now he's completed his work on Punisher
And this is why the whole concept of authors relinquishing the rights to a character to their publisher is abysmally dysfunctional. Let an author of a BD, comic book, book, whatever, do his/her thing, and once done, let the IP rest in piece. It was good, move on, create something new, not a stupid multiverse, because at some point, some asshole is going to shit on the IP.
I think this is how it works with manga. As far as I know, authors retain ownership of their characters, which is why something like Astro Boy hasn't been in continuous production for the last seventy years. It's cool that we have these superheroes like batman that have been around for generations, but I can't help but wonder if it would have been better to let the stories run their course and move on to something new.
> And this is why the whole concept of authors relinquishing the rights to a character to their publisher is abysmally dysfunctional. I still like that it's an option. I like when there are multiple systems in place that create different ecosystems.
I really don't understand the marvel/DC system of having the same characters and just rewriting them over and over? Can't they just write new characters and stories?
No, they can't. They would if they could do. Part of the problem is that good characters are formed from traits and ideas that people are intended to admire, or dislike. They often have an internal struggle, a weakness they cannot resolve, which gives them a sort of nobility and makes them relatable. So these characters are archetypes of certain ideas, which means they keep getting reframed and reused to speak to modern culture. The Punisher is the anti-hero archetype of uncompromising revenge and anger. His moral ambiguity often brings him into conflict with less dark heroes and often threatens to destroy him completely. Woke writers can't really do any of that. They want the hero worship, but not to have justify it or put a price on it. Because that leads to objectivity. Actually weighing the good against the bad of a character, rather than just letting them do whatever suits their emotional state and then praising that as good. Without the ability to create or use archetypes they mostly just criticise them. Write an essay on what's supposed to be wrong with a character and then destroy it.
There are only so many stories that can be told and the current writers aren't terribly imaginative. The comic company's don't want to give up on established brands/ icons.
> One from anguished revenge to the loss of his family by criminals to one of murderous mayhem to appease his bloodlust. This was a thing since MAX though
> This was a thing since MAX though It was a thing BEFORE that too. In the pages of 1999's Captain Marvel title, it's revealed that Punisher kills a man in front of his kid & discovers that the kid will one day grow up to seek vengeance & murder Frank.... So what does Frank do? Does he stop & think "wait, i'm not the hero in my story, i'm the villain in other peoples stories?" Nope, he just up & murders the kid to save himself.
that's a flaw that gives him a lil more depth
Wouldn’t you?
Obviously is right. He straight up admitted to hating this character.
No idea, but I'm not really eager to find out to be perfectly honest. This whole issue just sounds like character assassination or a reboot where he's somehow a goodie two-shoes. Either way, it's completely uninteresting to me.
Becuase frank is a straight white man whos symbol has been adopted by police and military, so ofc these writers need to destroy the fictional character.
This is the biggest (perhaps only?) motivator for Marvel to get rid of the Punisher. If he wasn't beloved by the police and military, Marvel would have him grow and change emotionally. They would have kept milking the Punisher cow for a long, long time.
Character assassination to get rid of the character. Wasn’t in the story way back when
In the timeline I remember Frank was a Vietnam vet and well some [shit went down](https://static.wikia.nocookie.net/marveldatabase/images/6/6f/Frank_Castle_%28Earth-200111%29_from_Born_Vol_1_4_0001.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20150815162738) during his tour. Criminals killing his family removed all the restrictions from a man with quite a skillset for a payback. That's the Frank I know though, I'm sure besides dozen different iterations they have retconned and fucked him over twice that number just in the last 10 years out of spite. Hell, probably the one I know isn't the original Punisher.
He killed fitty men!
Wouldn't be the first time current year comics did a retcon like that. Geoff John's god awful Three Jokers book decided to retcon the Killing Joke so that that the comedian was a violent abusive asshole even before bathing in a chemical spill, and that his wife actually faked her death to get away from him.
Yeah, I was excited for that storyline, and that reveal made me glad I didn't buy it. I'm poor, so when I do get around to buying books, it's usually after the run is over. I don't mind spoilers for 6 of things, so I'll get them regardless of whether I already know the gist of what happened. It saves me money if it ends up being crap.
Yes, but not anymore. According to this latest retcon, Frank was always a violently unstable psychopath even as a kid. No explanation how someone so cracked could draw someone like Maria, join the Marines, or be remembered so fondly by everyone that knew him before... but none of that matters when you're committing blatant character assassination! And these writers wonder why manga is eating them alive.
because marvel wants to cuck him
Lord only knows what they’re about to do to him in the MCU.
He doesn't exist outside of his Netflix series, they will continue to keep him from ever existing again. We got a new (very likely cucked) Daredevil show coming but NOTHING for Punisher.
Keeping his Netflix show out of the MCU is for the best, he never fit in with the Cape shit going on. Doing his thing without some superhero showing up. They've killed him off a few times, electrocuted by SHIELD, but it was a fake out, he had his next story undercover with the mafia. But he also had a stint where he became a literal angel and could pull infinite guns out of his coat. So now they've teamed him up with some demonic powers? The stuff on MAX from 2005 or so, those trades are what he should be.
The MAX line was pure gold in that era.
One of the best Netflix superhero shows, feels like a different time already.
The punisher will be in the daredevil show though... lol
And that's such a depressing thought. Jon Bernthal's Frank was damn near perfect in the Netflix series, and I'm dreading the fact that Disney is definitely going to turn him into the Social Justice Punisher. Ugh.
Honestly, the more they feel emboldened to be open about their violent fantasies, the faster reasonable people will be able to turn against social justice regressives.
>However, when Maria finally tells Frank that she was going to divorce him before she was killed and that she completely rejects everything he did "in her name", the Punisher is finally broken. These people are evil man holy shit
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> Isn’t Wolverine in a throuple now? ya, with the Hickman x-men run, all the mutants are basically sexual deviants or something now -_- they legit made Cyclops, Wolverine and Jean into a throuple (and going all the way such that they even implied Scott and Logan were into each other as well) that I think even included Emma, though I long since stopped reading that garbage long ago like fine, have a poly relationship with some characters, but these idiots thought these were the characters to do it with? the whole dynamic and history of Wolverine, Cyclops and Jean was thrown out the window for this dumb writing
Weird how Marvel is saying X-Men are suppossed to represent oppressed groups like black community and alphabet community. Are they saying that blacks and gays are sexual deviants? Unintended racism sure is funny.
lol, not just that... the x-men are basically a fascist state after the Hickman reboot, like legit straight up that's what they are and how they are acting, led by Professor X and Magneto they have shit like inviting x-men villains (like freaking apocalypse) into the "mutant state", having a death cult ceremony, all the x-men characters are acting OOC (nothing like what said characters are supposed to be), the whole "whoever dies can be reborn" thing and so on it's just crazy stuff, and not the good crazy but that wtf is this shit crazy.
What really sets me off is when people say they aren't villians when in HoX and PoX when thr bad guys joined charles was suprised that Apocalypse joined and Apocalypse simply said "why should it be? you have finally seen things my way now" You know the eugenicist darwinist religous fanatic who sees himself as a god?
No fucking way. Where can I read this abomination
can look up "Hickman's X-men" run when he started, believe it was back in 2019 or something, where they did this. If you want to subject yourself to this trash, you can probably find all the comic issues on readcomiconline pirate site. but ya, Hickman basically rebooted the x-men into basically a fascist state with every character acting OOC, and the garbage writers took hold of his work and made it even worse.
Holy fuck that sounds terrible. Keep it up marvel. One step closer in you finally dying.
> Punisher #12, by Jason Aaron by Jason Aaron, of course it's this dude. this fcker has been involved in destroying so many of marvel's heroes now: Thor, She-Hulk, Punisher, Valkyrie and w.e else I'm forgetting this dude worked on. and at the same time, he's pushed his weird obsession characters like Jane Foster into the forefront of everything, making her out to be the "best thor there ever was", the all-mother of Asgard before any actual Asgardian (legit made no sense when it happened) and then killed of all the Valkyries to push Jane as the "last and bestest Valkyrie evar!" then he did the usual of taunting and hating on the customers and readers who all hated what he was doing, acting like he was right and shit like his version of she-hulk (that legit even the media hated) was the "best version" and so on -_- ya this dude is awful, iirc all his runs with these characters have been low-selling, unpopular garbage.
Sounds like the perfect excuse to avoid drawing action and stick to the new standard of people talking and/or eating.
Just be thankful they didn't turn him into a lgbt "woman", there are worse things than death.
Give it time
The PS2 game was so good.
Yeah it was a brilliant tie in with the movie. Thomas Jane did the voice
Wow… What a way to go.
>When some indie person inevitably creates something along the same lines, but edgier, I want to read about it here first. Its called Private American and the usual people who hate their own comics and dont want better onrs actually sabotaged it from selling it because it was "racist"
I don't think they care.
I don't think people realize how wildly different live action characters are compared to their comic counterparts hell Netflix Punisher doesn't even act like comic Frank. Look how different live action and other media treat Spider-Man compared to his comic counterpart it's night and day. Imo there is no 'woke garbage' just bad writing that has and always will exist no matter the ere or media.
Just be happy Punisher died before he could be made into a LGBT ally who kills cops to make up for his white privilege.
Don't worry, I'm sure that'll be Francine Castle in whatever bullshit series they shit out for Disney Pus
Hehehe
This is great news. This whole storyline was total garbage and Welcome Back Frank was pinnacle Punisher. I can't wait for an even grittier reboot.
Welcome Back Frank was THE Punisher. I felt like Bernthal channeled that version in his fiery monolog on the stand in DD.
Yeah, as something of a Punisher-purist I thought Bernthal was a little too much of a thug in the Netflix version. And the conversation with Micro about dick sizes was more than I could bear. I was into 90's punisher which was more John Wick/Jack Reacher. Wish they could go back to the calculated killer.
I really enjoyed the Thomas Jane Punisher movie. That was my introduction to the character. I like how he was very methodical, and the final battle of the movie was very one sided in his favor. It was a nice change of pace from the usual. In the Netflix series, it just got old pretty quickly how he was constantly charging in like a bull in a china shop and how he always looked like an amateur boxer who recently had a match against a prime Mike Tyson.
I've been saying the same about Bernthal's Punisher for so long.
MAX was THE punisher.
I hope they fucking do. There's no way the current marvel can write a good punisher story. Retire him for good, for once and for all. The last thing I want to see is that the punisher comes back as a woke version, I don't want to see Puni(she/her). Of course, we all know nobody stays dead in comics, so it's all pointless.
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You joke but they’ll probably do this
Nah, because then they'd have a "feminist icon" who's whole shtick is vigilante justice, and they can't have that. She'd have to... fuck I don't know, be some sort of "sex worker" and activists who helps "disadvantaged black youth" by lecturing white heterosexual men about their "privilege."
She'll only punish the patriarchy, so it will be fine.
I think they may actually do this.
The arch villain can be a crime boss who always identifies as a woman just as the Punisher catches up to them.
I remember Punisher teamed up with this woman on a similar revenge kick and they ran into Spider-man who stupidly asked “Frank, are you dating again?” That was pretty good.
Lynn Micheals had her time.
what do you think they will do after this my guy. Remember what happened to thor, they didn't just break him down emotionally and emasculate him they replaced him with a woman aswell. The same thing will happen to the punisher, just watch gwenpool will be the next punisher im calling it.
>so it's all pointless. Even more pointless when we know the character is already NOT dead. He's on Battleworld, in the area called "Weird World."
The Left: COPS USE THE PUNISHER SKULL! BOYCOTT! Marvel: You don't buy our comics anyway... The Left: WE'LL CALL YOU BIGOTS AND RACISTS IF YOU DON'T! Marvel: \*ends Punisher\*
you forgot that they changed the skull, they knelt for the first one
They call things racist/phobic until they control it. They always do this. It always works.
Obviously death in a comic book won't stick, but this is still stupid.
I like how they think this is going to make the Punisher less popular though. The overwhelming majority of people rocking Punisher merch barely know who he is. They only know what he does, and only as broad strokes. So you are still going to be seeing cops and soldiers rocking Punisher skulls (remember when they got rid of that too?), and not even be aware Marvel did this.
They don’t care about action or results though, they just want to LOOK like they tried to affect change so they can just shrug and say “not our problem” when people cry about punisher stickers.
Remember when the wokes thought that the creator of Pepe the Frog killing Pepe would stop all those 4Chan MAGA Chuds from ever using him again? How did that work out?
Those that do like the Punisher are just going to take this as unfair targeting too. I don't think it'll be a win for Marvel
He was cut up by Wolverine’s son and came back as Franken-Castle.
> Obviously death in a comic book won't stick, More so given the Punisher didn't die at the end of that comic, he just teleported to Weird World.... It even shows it in the comic book.
I just want to point out that Wal-Mart is currently selling Punisher shirts with the classic skull logo. Disney is supposedly "erasing" The Punisher's legacy while simultaneously profiting off of it.
Fucking us from both ends. Edit: Although I wonder if sites like ebay and Amazon are going to ban Punisher shirts like they did Confederate flag shirts.
They did not ban the sale of Uncle Ben's rice packages. Because yes, they are now considered collectables after the brand rename.
Seeing how it’s June, it’d be funny if they put the pride flag in the skull.
That is what this is all about. Capital offering trendy rebellion and co-opting any actual critique of our escalating dystopia. Catering to virtue-signalling and vanity works for both the girlboss and brotard executives as it does the screechers on twitter.
If this industry was truly about racking profits and not cultural vandalism (and Marxism) they would have doubled down on characters like the Punisher, perhaps making them even edgier and adding subtle mockery of the SJW movement. They would have sold those comics like hot cakes.
It's like they could print money and actively choose to bankrupt themselves.
The MCU films should have led to increased readership and profit, instead they tried to force their agenda. So yes, that’s pretty much what they did.
This is probably the biggest claiming of a character since Max Headroom was claimed by a bunch of analogue hackers.
They had punisher, a fooking vet, joint the 22 a day....
The left has always hated the military and veterans. They probably thought this was hilarious.
I read The Punisher in the 90’s and loved the character, had posters in my room. While he had soft reboots, the original one was always top. Also in the 90’s they had swimsuit editions of the X-Men. None of that would fly now and they had to adjust to modern feelings. I wish they could go back to having marvel lines for all ages and having adult books with characters who were morally conflicted like The Punisher again
Swim Suit editions, but only characters who have chopped something off
Now prove you are not just virtue signaling, relinquish control over the copyright. What? You wanna just pretend while sitting on the IP so you can bring it back in 3 years? Yeah.
The article points out that they're cucking him hardcore by making him "nice". He'll be "reimagined for a *modern* audience" and I bet his wife will be retconned into a black lesbian and he'll be rampantly gay and "so in touch with his FEELINGS".
Sounds like the indie market just got a giant hole to fill. And these companies wonder why a single manga can outsell the entire western comic book industry combined.
Well, after reading beautiful stuff like Gantz and MPD Psycho back in the day, I was hooked. Western comics are just shit nowadays. It's sad to see how fucking far down the ladder it's gone.
> "so in touch with his FEELINGS". He always was though. It's just those feelings were rage and grief.
What has the punisher done to make progressives hate him?
He has the wrong kind of fans.
Be a veteran? Have vets and cops use the logo? Go after evil people via vigilantism? Be pro 2A?....There's a reason they had him commit suicide aka 22 a day.
What a bunch of fucking dickhead pussies jfc
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Don't forget their side-kicks too, Trigger Warning and Cuck Boy.
In case you were joking: https://www.marvel.com/articles/comics/introducing-the-new-new-warriors
Oh my God, he's still wearing that stupid ninja symbol in the aftermath. They did him dirty, the way they did Danny Rand.
Yep, when he inevitably gets retconned, we'll call him the Cuckisher :D
Damn it's not like the writing was on the walls. The vapid excuse for story that has been rolling out of Marvel has been so hand-holdingly placative to an audience it doesn't have has been just depressing to watch but also cathartic. Like seeing a monster beg for water in a dry well at the bottom of a hill and hearing the sound of a large storm rolling in.....They will get what they wanted and drown in it. Too afraid to push boundries.... Too uncreative to make new IP's with anything but self inserts.... It's all so tiresome and why I gave up US comics in the mid 2010's. Korean webcomics fill the hole pretty well anymore but there will always be gaps that can't be filled.
A complex character with major flaws as a way of examining the nature of violence, vengeance, and other ethical questions? No that's too hard, throw it in the fire
And publishers can't seem to figure out why manga keeps outselling comics
They're working on Japan as we speak. [https://twitter.com/amisweetheart/status/1664878609071501312](https://twitter.com/amisweetheart/status/1664878609071501312)
MOTHERF****RS! Please Japan, keep that shit at bay, at least for 10 years.
I'm going to start breaking TOS
difference is, in Japan there is massive pushback on this shit.
Frank Castle is still cosmic ghost rider and punishing on a whole other level.
The Punisher is a great starter rival for most heroes. The fact is, modern writing is crap anyway, but this one character already carried the burden of being a hard sell on his own. His best content involves being an adversary to other heroes, and it just is a sad fact of his existence as an IP. But if modern writing was not crap, they could use him over and over again like they always have, starring in awkward rivalries and team ups with other heroes. Shooting at Spiderman when Frank gets the dumb idea that Spidey is up to no good, or taking the law into his own hands to bring down some of the Kingpin's thugs. Otherwise, The Punisher sticks out in canon like a sore thumb. Frank ain't high enough level to take on world shaking events, but he is also so gritty that it's hard to work long as a crime drama, needing to mellow out before the bad feels make the readers want to quit. Not sure how I feel other than "at least they didn't turn him gay during a rape orgy and race swap him" or something, but they may have already done that knowing how crap modern writing is.
>Not sure how I feel other than "at least they didn't turn him gay during a rape orgy and race swap him" or something, but they may have already done that knowing how crap modern writing is Well I don't know about gay, but they already made Punisher black and all the way back in the 90s. Its... as stupid as it sounds. Also he's been a Frankenstein too.
Yeah, but that was random bad idea crap, not modern writing bad idea crap. Those are two very different types of bad idea crap, and the modern version is way worse.
>His best content involves being an adversary to other heroes, and it just is a sad fact of his existence as an IP. He's one of the most famous comicbook anti-heroes, but personally I always struggled to see him as even *that* much of a hero. Character just makes a lot more sense as some kind of *villain protagonist*. Murderous rival of actual heroes is a niche that just straight up makes more sense for him, to my mind. Anything beyond that just feels too much like he has plot armour.
Look on the bright side...they accidentally gave him a big "death" that sticks for a while, the rarest honour for a comic hero. and then the alphabet crowd will be out on their asses and he'll be back.
the worst parts in the whole dumpster fire that was the hand bullshit and his weirdworld daycare trip was the fact he went through all that just to have his wife tell him she was actually a karen who took all of his money with help from black widow , and retconning everything about frank and his family before their death. wolverine being a complete hypocrite to his face , black widow of all people moral grandstanding , and i can rant for days about the moon knight wall of text. fucking wolverine is on krakoa dying and getting resurrected while beast is now worse than dark beast, and the writer doesnt even try to have continuity even reading it on a pirated website i felt like the author was spitting in the face of all long time marvel comic book readers
Let me get this storyline straight. A bunch of heroes capture a brutal vigilante and promptly organize a kangaroo court with him as the accused. They tell him how much he sucks in hope they’ll break him into apologizing to them as if they were his victims. They bring his resurrected wife that rejects him publicly, which breaks him to the point where he commits suicide. This is incredibly petty, cruel, and simultaneously pathetic.
kinda, [here's the whole 12 issue run](https://readcomiconline.li/Comic/Punisher-2022) ( once again use adblocks like ghostery ,abp, ub , minerblocks etc for the love of all thats anything) the problem is this run decided to deconstruct the punisher and frank castle through flashbacks that contradict many cannon moments , while disregarding the fact that frank has been aware of and dealt with magic in the 616 for an incredibly long time. he's just out of character the whole run , and the ending teleportation where he technically prays to the beast through bullet totems/fetishes is probably the most glaring part. the heroes that end up saving him to become his judge and jury pretty much negates what punisher even is at his core , because this means he never once created a single backup plan if things go sideways .
This is why people prefer manga to comics. How many different writers have handled Frank Castle these past 20 years? And how many have handled Naruto? So who is the better and more consistently written character?
Japan is currently cucking at the demand of the good old U S of A, so it won't be long until they're here. [https://twitter.com/amisweetheart/status/1664878609071501312](https://twitter.com/amisweetheart/status/1664878609071501312)
Don't give Marvel money. They don't like you.
marvel officaly gets rid of its fans
Someone from comicsgate is probably seeing dollar signs with this announcement: there's a market that isn't being filled.
Honestly with the Disneyfication of Marvel i am amazed this didn’t happen earlier. Everything the mouse touches it turns into some corporate approved pink hair in the writers room disaster. They knew this “woke” reboot would fail so they killed him off because Frank Castle supposedly personified “white rage” and white people should be meek, passive and remorsefully “non violent” nowadays apparently… unless their punishing Republicans , excuse me Nazi’s… Sucks that such a great character becomes a victim of the culture wars but what does one expect with modern day Disney making the decisions!
‘ScreenRant.’ You can stop reading there.
I get that the punisher was very problematic. I understand. But fuck me, that's why he was interesting. He was morally grey and his methods very dubious, and he'd constantly tread the line between hero and villain. Are we just not allowed rich, conflicted characters and stories anymore then? Everything has to be boiled down to squeaky clean virtuous Vs outright evil. It's like we've gone 80 years backwards to golden age comic storylines.
First of all, calling something problematic is wokespeak, just so you know. And if you use their non-descriptive language, you validate their ideology. Call him for what he was, an unrepentant psychopath with a fucked up moral code. Sure, one could argue trauma is the reason for it, but that doesn't justify it, it explains it. But the normies can't really understand concepts like this. They need it boiled down, simplified, massaged, treated and fucking steamed into a delicious bun or something. It's like their brains are fucking mush at this point. So yeah, let them kill him off and bring him back as something "less problematic" as the wokies would call it. You're right about this being a regression though, we're about 75% into an era of incredible censorship and conformism which is just disgusting. The inevitable backlash though, oh man, if you thought shit was edgy before, just wait until everyone starts breaking new ground again and testing the boundaries of what's possible to capitalize on.
So you mean at the moment the character is probably in Marvel's version of Hell, to where countless other characters, including Captain America, have come and gone. Its Marvel, character's are never 'officially' gone until they sell the rights to another company.
No, but he's being retconned obviously. I mean, the writing is on the wall in big giant pink neon letters.
I don’t understand why people still give this company money.
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Sad.
This is where the fun ends
Nah man, this is where the new fun begins. So what if they fuck up the Punisher? Just means a new market opened up. There's some comic artist nerd out there with enough edge to pick up the slack and when they do, they won't have the slackjaws over at Marvel or DC watching over their shoulders.
whats wrong with the punisher? hes not supposed to be a good guy, hes batman what kills people right?
Getting rid of your only “adult” character sure feels like a great idea
He'll be back, old logo and all, in a few years. If they were that serious, I doubt they'd be planning a new series for Disney plus.
It feels like this was made just to spite classic Punisher fans, who wouldn’t even still be reading at this point. Also, character-breaking retcons are the hallmark of any poor writer.
Long gone are the halcyon days of Marvel MAX and the legendary Garth Ennis run. What a damn shame.
I'm surprised they didn't turn him into a little girl
I never understand how the punisher is controversial. He's a realistic guy without any superpowers that's willing to do what the heroes can't do because he got nothing to lose. The entire John Wick series is already a film about a punisher. And people love it.
Doesn't capeshit marvel constantly kill off their characters and revive them? Why is this any more final than any other death ever in their repertoire? Hell they said he's not even dead just in a different dimension.
This just sets up the inevitable return of the punisher as some marry sue / alphabet soup community self insert. Who will spend the entirety of the comic run killing evil awful right wingers trying to keep their children away from the depravity.
The Punisher was the only character which justifyed Marvel's existance.
Genuine shame, Punisher is the only comic I still regularly read and buy but haven't touched a release since Matthew Rosenberg's run. Guess a good thing can't last forever, like everything else I grew up enjoying.
This era of Marvel seems to be about stories of outsized epic proportions that have to shrivel down to nothing by their resolution so that the next writer can pick up from a pretty neutral spot. I know this is always the way comics are, but we’re seeing anime boob levels of distortion for each characters run. Iron man was a god, frank was a god, the nutty Avenger Prime story that just shovels variants into a furnace like the story is a steam train. Punisher is 100% coming back, and he may be a bit uncharacteristically tame or even unsure himself in his next iteration (I’m imagining something similar to Gold Goblin,) but that pendulum will swing the other direction when they feel the time is right. Edit: my biggest confusion on this run was the way they used Area, seemed a bit atypical for his marvel character, but was a cool use of the concept if it’d been his first appearance or something
I mean if they hate the punisher so much rather than getting rid of him why not just bring him back to what he was originally supposed to be when Stan Lee created him Stan lee has said in multiple interviews the punisher was supposed to be an ultraviolent villain a version of what happens when a superhero goes wrong and even while he was alive he always talked about how much he despised the '90s punisher comic line for making him too heroic and how when he made the character the character was supposed to just stay a Spider-Man villain. So why not just bring back the Punisher as a permanent villain like Stan Lee wanted Frank to be.
>why not just bring him back to what he was originally supposed to be Because he can and has been used in far more interesting ways than just as a member of Spider-Man's rogues gallery. He arguably shouldn't even be in Spider-Man's rogues, he should be a psychological antagonist (not an enemy/rogue) for Daredevil. Also, Garth Ennis' Punisher MAX run is the best showing of the character. He deserves to be portrayed in a realistic world, not a superhero universe.
That so F Up! I definitely see him dying as a character but suicide. His wife divorced him he commit suicide WTF! Suicide is a big topic. They could give the character a proper end. Dying in a blazing glory or be stuck on purgatory selling himself to the devil.
The worst thing that could happen to Marvel was getting bought by Disney. The original Spider Man movies were a lot darker and had more drama. The second Hulk movie was also fantastic and there is no way Disney would allow such a dark Hulk anymore, just look at She-Hulk. The Punisher on Netflix was great because it was done by people who cared and were not trying to push politics. People are right, maybe is better for Disney not to do a Punisher.
This is one of the most blatant examples for what killed mainstream comics that I have ever seen.
The Punisher was morally complex, like Rorschach from Watchmen (or hell, almost everyone in Watchmen). “Modern audiences” don’t want that, they want clearly defined, black vs white, total good vs total evil. The good ones will be the ones that introduce themselves with their preferred pronouns. Of course, as usual “modern audiences” is just cover for some combination of “cucked and cowardly creators” and “ESG or related funding pressure.”
so are they also killing off deadpool too? cuz that fucker is much, much worse.
Can we just cancel marvel already
frank killing bad guys is bad but the joker gets to blow up gotham every other day with just a slap on his wrist
Nothing is permanent in comics. The Punisher will be back when the activists ruining comics are finally kicked to the curb. No telling how long that will be, though.
I see punishing the audience is the go to corporate move
How many times did they kill off superman again?
I thoroughly enjoyed the John Bernthal version of the Punisher and this makes me wonder if that'll disappear.
As Marvel comics prove, yet once again, that they just *really* hate selling comics and making money, for some bizarre reason.