Technically anyone can sit for the bar in California without a JD, it takes like a little time working for a judge and a few law classes, but can almost guarantee that it won't prepare you effectively though
I’d first consider where they are trying to go with this degree. If they already have another degree or certification this could be what lets them enter the legal field.
To be fair, California has a myriad of pathways to the bar and traditional law school is one of them.
Not saying I think this is the right approach for OP to take but they wouldn’t be barred from the California bar with this being their only legal degree.
A masters of legal studies doesn’t qualify you to sit for the bar even in California. This credential doesn’t qualify you to do anything you couldn’t do without it. I’m not sure why anyone would want to get it.
This is Exhibit A why there’s a college crisis in America right now. Young people are going into massive debt getting useless degrees that have virtually zero ROI
What is the point of a master's in legal studies? Why not just go to law school if you're gonna be paying law school prices? Hell my actual law school tuition is like $25k cheaper than this.
I'll be paying $21k a year for FIU, a school that at least allows me to sit for the bar, and does a pretty good job of getting its students to pass said bar
How are people paying $50k for a diet JD that doesn't let you sit for the bar?
Maybe putting some dollar figures on it will help make the point to OP. If OP eventually does BigLaw after law school, then they will be two years behind where they would have been. First year BigLaw pay is $245k and second year is $265k, so that would be a total of $510k they could have had over those two years instead of still fucking around in school for no reason.
Put another way, if you assume OP’s education + years working will total up to the same length of time over their career, then really it’s the FINAL two years they’re losing by delaying (because they’ll work two years less). If they fail to make BigLaw partner and cap out at the top of the associate pay scale, that’s still minimum $550k per year aka $1.1 million wasted. If they end their career as an average paid partner at Kirkland & Ellis that’s $7.5 million/year aka $15 million wasted.
Obviously they may not even want BigLaw but maybe throwing some numbers around will drive home the opportunity cost of the MLS.
I’m under a program that uses a different benefit. I’m using VRE they paid for my bachelors and Masters, I will return to use my gi bill with 36 months of eligibility to complete law school.
If they pay for it and you still have GI bill sounds good. Why don’t you just go straight into law school if you plan on it in the future? I’m using VRE for it.
I was unsure if I wanted to go through law school, my plan is, since I sit in the same law classes that if I find it easier than I think than I will pursue it after grad school. Plus I take out student loans as I’m p&t and get loan forgiveness so free 40k this next semester haha
I'm using VRE to go to law school. It's only one year longer than the masters and the JD is infinitely more versatile. Why would you want to go to school for 5 years when you could be done in 3? If you hate it, you only have to suck it up for one more year.
I'm using VRE to go to law school. It's only one year longer than the masters and the JD is infinitely more versatile. Why would you want to go to school for 5 years when you could be done in 3? If you hate it, you only have to suck it up for one more year.
I'm using VRE to go to law school. It's only one year longer than the masters and the JD is infinitely more versatile. Why would you want to go to school for 5 years when you could be done in 3? If you hate it, you only have to suck it up for one more year.
Feel free to hit me up if you’d like to talk about plans and whatnot, Debil. I’m out and practice in the private sector. Happy to help you figure out a successful path, or just deal with legal education.
I'm using VRE to go to law school. It's only one year longer than the masters and the JD is infinitely more versatile. Why would you want to go to school for 5 years when you could be done in 3? If you hate it, you only have to suck it up for one more year.
If you're a marine veteran interested in going into the legal field as a lawyer, please go to a law school and not this program. Message me and I will help you use GI Bill calculator and yellow ribbon program to afford a good law school. As a vet you can get into schools better than your gpa/LSAT might otherwise let you.
Please don't waste your GI bill on an MLS.
Dude, if you're just tacking on a degree because you have VA money to burn, why not just do the JD/MBA combo? The MBA connections might actually be helpful down the road, but MLS is for rubes who couldn't get into law school.
> I am doing a masters in Legal studies
why?
>Never knew how expensive school gets lol
It's expensive and lawyer salaries follow a bimodal distribution. Everything about legal job market is a "mirror-tocracy." That is, employers will recruit heavily from "this is where we always get our attorneys" meaning they can be prestige-chasing and/or from a certain alumni base. People think "Well, I'll overcome the odds with a can-do, plucky attitude" not realizing their application materials will never be seen by a human being.
Look at the job outcomes. I would venture that 20-40% of a San Diego law school grad will be unemployed 10 months after graduation. I bet that most of their jobs are for \~60k a year.
Think about this in terms of you're starting a small business and the product is you. What due diligence would you want to do if you are borrowing essentially 150-200k to start the business? Job outcome? What other options are there? What's the ROI on those other options?
I get you think it's "free money" because you earned a benefit that the military will purchase your degree. But are there other degrees with a better ROI? If you choose this one, would they pay for others ? What could you do for the time you're in school otherwise (e.g., earn 40k a year for 3/4 years and that's 160k of opportunity cost)?
I think most JDs are mostly worthless because the field is saturated. I REALLY think that any MLS is even worse than worthless.
But, say, your ambition is to go into JAG or starting your own firm, then virtually anything I said probably doesn't matter because those options are essentially opting out of the broader legal job market.
Since I didn't scare you away, this is what I mean by bimodal: [https://www.nalp.org/salarydistrib#2022](https://www.nalp.org/salarydistrib#2022)
Here it is by location and firm size: [https://www.nalp.org/uploads/Classof2022NationalSummaryReport.pdf](https://www.nalp.org/uploads/Classof2022NationalSummaryReport.pdf)
I’d say a bit high.
The average cost for a Master of Legal Studies (MLS) degree varies widely depending on the institution, program format, and location. Generally, tuition for an MLS degree can range from $20,000 to $50,000. However, prestigious universities or specialized programs may charge higher fees, sometimes exceeding $60,000. Additional costs, such as books, fees, and living expenses, should also be considered.
It’s always wild to see this. For us in France it’s 150€/year.
I’m glad you’re not paying for this degree. Being in the military seems worth it in the US when it comes to education at least, that’s neat.
I feel so bad after seeing that number. After scholarship I pay $8,890/year and my school charges $70,000 a year. I would strongly advise you choose a cheaper school, a law degree is a law degree no matter where you go. Or you can retake the LSAT and get a higher score for a better scholarship, increasing your gpa, I assume, is not an option anymore. Law schools care about LSAT over anything. Good luck and congrats on getting into law school!
Never have I felt more confident I made the right choice in pursuing a JD at a T100 with a 50% scholarship in a LCOL area. I can't imagine that much debt and still not coming out of it with a JD. Good luck.
$88k in loans could cost you $200k with interest. There are free loan calculators that every student needs to use before considering a student loan. See how much this degree will ACTUALLY cost you (!) 💸 [Free Loan Calculator](https://www.calculator.net/student-loan-calculator.html)
I'd seriously, seriously reconsider doing the degree. Such masters programs are pretty useless and don't qualify you to sit for the bar exam.
Technically anyone can sit for the bar in California without a JD, it takes like a little time working for a judge and a few law classes, but can almost guarantee that it won't prepare you effectively though
I’d first consider where they are trying to go with this degree. If they already have another degree or certification this could be what lets them enter the legal field.
To be fair, California has a myriad of pathways to the bar and traditional law school is one of them. Not saying I think this is the right approach for OP to take but they wouldn’t be barred from the California bar with this being their only legal degree.
A masters of legal studies doesn’t qualify you to sit for the bar even in California. This credential doesn’t qualify you to do anything you couldn’t do without it. I’m not sure why anyone would want to get it. This is Exhibit A why there’s a college crisis in America right now. Young people are going into massive debt getting useless degrees that have virtually zero ROI
I mean, yeah, it looks about right. I think the better question is, “should I take out $88k in loans for a MLS degree?”
I accidentally read MLS as MLM, but then realized they may as well be the same thing at this price. Hope the poster reconsiders their plan.
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I see what you did there. Equivocation fallacies make for some good jokes sometimes.
#BossWoman
What’s more useful, an MLS degree or an MRS degree? I’d honestly argue the latter…
$88k PER YEAR in loans that is …
What is the point of a master's in legal studies? Why not just go to law school if you're gonna be paying law school prices? Hell my actual law school tuition is like $25k cheaper than this.
Yup, I'm 30k a semester granted it's not like a prestigious school, but I'll at least leave able to sit for the bar.
I'll be paying $21k a year for FIU, a school that at least allows me to sit for the bar, and does a pretty good job of getting its students to pass said bar How are people paying $50k for a diet JD that doesn't let you sit for the bar?
Looks about right. Is there a reason you want to do this degree? Highly unlikely to be a good investment
What jobs require a Master of Legal Studies?
How do universities get away with this shit lmao
On top of an MLS degree not being useful, I’m pretty sure the law school will actually have a larger pool of financial aid/grants/etc available
Just to add I am a Marine corps Veteran so I do not pay any school expenses! So I don’t pay a dime for this degree
ok that makes way more sense 😭😭😭
Then what's the point of this post?
Lmfao so real
Seeing what the normal cost is for a similar program. Just out of curiosity
Still no point in doing the degree. Still a time investment.
Maybe putting some dollar figures on it will help make the point to OP. If OP eventually does BigLaw after law school, then they will be two years behind where they would have been. First year BigLaw pay is $245k and second year is $265k, so that would be a total of $510k they could have had over those two years instead of still fucking around in school for no reason. Put another way, if you assume OP’s education + years working will total up to the same length of time over their career, then really it’s the FINAL two years they’re losing by delaying (because they’ll work two years less). If they fail to make BigLaw partner and cap out at the top of the associate pay scale, that’s still minimum $550k per year aka $1.1 million wasted. If they end their career as an average paid partner at Kirkland & Ellis that’s $7.5 million/year aka $15 million wasted. Obviously they may not even want BigLaw but maybe throwing some numbers around will drive home the opportunity cost of the MLS.
are you gonna get a jd after?
Yes that is the plan!
Why not just apply for law school instead? What is the point in getting your masters if you’re just going to go anyway? Seems like a waste of time
Will your GI bill cover both a masters degree and JD? Because you might want to save it to pay for the more expensive JD
I’m under a program that uses a different benefit. I’m using VRE they paid for my bachelors and Masters, I will return to use my gi bill with 36 months of eligibility to complete law school.
You must have a pretty nice VRE councilor if they approved you for a MLS.
Yeah just had to find a job that required a Masters program and they approved it.
If they pay for it and you still have GI bill sounds good. Why don’t you just go straight into law school if you plan on it in the future? I’m using VRE for it.
I was unsure if I wanted to go through law school, my plan is, since I sit in the same law classes that if I find it easier than I think than I will pursue it after grad school. Plus I take out student loans as I’m p&t and get loan forgiveness so free 40k this next semester haha
I'm using VRE to go to law school. It's only one year longer than the masters and the JD is infinitely more versatile. Why would you want to go to school for 5 years when you could be done in 3? If you hate it, you only have to suck it up for one more year.
I'm using VRE to go to law school. It's only one year longer than the masters and the JD is infinitely more versatile. Why would you want to go to school for 5 years when you could be done in 3? If you hate it, you only have to suck it up for one more year.
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I'm using VRE to go to law school. It's only one year longer than the masters and the JD is infinitely more versatile. Why would you want to go to school for 5 years when you could be done in 3? If you hate it, you only have to suck it up for one more year.
Feel free to hit me up if you’d like to talk about plans and whatnot, Debil. I’m out and practice in the private sector. Happy to help you figure out a successful path, or just deal with legal education.
I'm using VRE to go to law school. It's only one year longer than the masters and the JD is infinitely more versatile. Why would you want to go to school for 5 years when you could be done in 3? If you hate it, you only have to suck it up for one more year.
Just get the JD. This masters is completely useless.
Just go straight to law school, don't waste earning years on an irrelevant master's.
If you're a marine veteran interested in going into the legal field as a lawyer, please go to a law school and not this program. Message me and I will help you use GI Bill calculator and yellow ribbon program to afford a good law school. As a vet you can get into schools better than your gpa/LSAT might otherwise let you. Please don't waste your GI bill on an MLS.
What are you using to pay? GI bill or Chapters?
VRE chapter 33 benefits!
I’m not entirely sure what legal studies is, but if you’re not getting a JD at the end, the price tag isn’t worth it.
hes a vet he doesn't pay for it.
Time ain't free, homie
you said price tag not his time lol i do agree spending this much time when you can just get a J.D makes no sense.
Time is apart of the price tag you just don’t see it
What are you even going to do with this? Getting a JD at USD isn’t even worth it for that price.
Charging a student wellness fee is ludicrous behavior.
School gym
Dude, if you're just tacking on a degree because you have VA money to burn, why not just do the JD/MBA combo? The MBA connections might actually be helpful down the road, but MLS is for rubes who couldn't get into law school.
I spent less than that for all four years of law school (part-time evening program) combined. I graduated from state school in 2020.
> I am doing a masters in Legal studies why? >Never knew how expensive school gets lol It's expensive and lawyer salaries follow a bimodal distribution. Everything about legal job market is a "mirror-tocracy." That is, employers will recruit heavily from "this is where we always get our attorneys" meaning they can be prestige-chasing and/or from a certain alumni base. People think "Well, I'll overcome the odds with a can-do, plucky attitude" not realizing their application materials will never be seen by a human being. Look at the job outcomes. I would venture that 20-40% of a San Diego law school grad will be unemployed 10 months after graduation. I bet that most of their jobs are for \~60k a year. Think about this in terms of you're starting a small business and the product is you. What due diligence would you want to do if you are borrowing essentially 150-200k to start the business? Job outcome? What other options are there? What's the ROI on those other options? I get you think it's "free money" because you earned a benefit that the military will purchase your degree. But are there other degrees with a better ROI? If you choose this one, would they pay for others ? What could you do for the time you're in school otherwise (e.g., earn 40k a year for 3/4 years and that's 160k of opportunity cost)? I think most JDs are mostly worthless because the field is saturated. I REALLY think that any MLS is even worse than worthless. But, say, your ambition is to go into JAG or starting your own firm, then virtually anything I said probably doesn't matter because those options are essentially opting out of the broader legal job market.
Thank you! Best info I have gotten
Since I didn't scare you away, this is what I mean by bimodal: [https://www.nalp.org/salarydistrib#2022](https://www.nalp.org/salarydistrib#2022) Here it is by location and firm size: [https://www.nalp.org/uploads/Classof2022NationalSummaryReport.pdf](https://www.nalp.org/uploads/Classof2022NationalSummaryReport.pdf)
My top 25 degree was like $32k per year in 2012. Idk how that translates here but for 88k a year I’d like to at least be able to sit for the bar exam
I’d say a bit high. The average cost for a Master of Legal Studies (MLS) degree varies widely depending on the institution, program format, and location. Generally, tuition for an MLS degree can range from $20,000 to $50,000. However, prestigious universities or specialized programs may charge higher fees, sometimes exceeding $60,000. Additional costs, such as books, fees, and living expenses, should also be considered.
What does “transportation” even entail? 😭
Master's degrees are honestly a scam at this point.
I’m doing an MLS degree for 20k, please go somewhere else if you want this degree.
Chump change. My COA is 110k.
Your non-existant COA, you mean.
Not for me 😭
It’s always wild to see this. For us in France it’s 150€/year. I’m glad you’re not paying for this degree. Being in the military seems worth it in the US when it comes to education at least, that’s neat.
I feel so bad after seeing that number. After scholarship I pay $8,890/year and my school charges $70,000 a year. I would strongly advise you choose a cheaper school, a law degree is a law degree no matter where you go. Or you can retake the LSAT and get a higher score for a better scholarship, increasing your gpa, I assume, is not an option anymore. Law schools care about LSAT over anything. Good luck and congrats on getting into law school!
Are you trying to go JAG OP? Or what are your goals? What’s the purpose of getting an MLS degree?
mhhh! I'd reconsider ....
A thousand times NO!
Absolutely DO NOT spend that much money on an MLS. That would be a hard sell if it was a JD.
Goddamn
Never have I felt more confident I made the right choice in pursuing a JD at a T100 with a 50% scholarship in a LCOL area. I can't imagine that much debt and still not coming out of it with a JD. Good luck.
Bro do not do this
Don’t get this degree. Signed, a 2024 law school graduate.
If that was for a JD program, I'd tell you that's too much. For an MLS program, I'll tell you that you've lost your mind if you proceed with this.
Man i love not being American! My yearly cost is about $800 in the beat las school of the region :DDD
I’d consider getting your JD it’s cheaper in most schools per year than this
Masters in legal studies? Seems like a scam.
$88k in loans could cost you $200k with interest. There are free loan calculators that every student needs to use before considering a student loan. See how much this degree will ACTUALLY cost you (!) 💸 [Free Loan Calculator](https://www.calculator.net/student-loan-calculator.html)
Yup
I have no idea what this degree qualifies you for. Maybe you’d get a little pay bump if you took a paralegal position?