The best people don't want to be president. They probably dont even want to be politicians. What we get are the sleeziest and most power-hungry of us running for these positions.
Exactly. Politics is an adverse selection process because the kind of people who want to be involved typically like the idea of power over others.
Consequently, as South Park memorably put it, it *always* ends up as a choice between a Giant Douche and a Turd Sandwich.
I’m going to be charitable: the kind of people who are willing to subject themselves to the process of being elected president are not the kind of people who should hold the job.
Do you think if we had actual limited government then this principle would change? Like if the government had only the powers us libertarians want them to have then the best people would put themselves forward?
Just something I was pondering on
No, you'd still get people that want the title and the pomp and illusions of grandeur. The idea is that they can keep the ceremony without having enough authority to do real damage.
I’d be good with that. Hell, it that was all that was involved, I’d run for office!
I’m just not narcissistic enough to think that out of the entire country, I’d be the best for running it all with the amount of power and influence the presidency has.
IMO, a limited government creates a power vacuum which is naturally filled. This is what happened to America. We tried a small federal government but inevitably power hungry people took control. And since we didn’t really plan for it, we end up with a heaping bureaucracy forged by chaos and greed
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case it is unfit to exist." - Lysander Spooner.
The constitution kept government fairly limited for the first 175 years of America’s existence. That is pretty impressive to me! The real problem is a bunch of non-originalist Supreme Court justices that incorrectly assume they can interpret the constitution however they want.
My favorite example is Roe v Wade. Although I’m pro choice, there is nothing even remotely close to anything mentioning abortion in the constitution, so Congress should have had to pass a law to protect abortion in a federal level. Instead, the Supreme Court justices wanted it, so they loosely interpreted the 14th amendment to protect a women’s right to medical privacy from the state, effectively passing a new law. (Funny enough they didn’t think this same right to medical privacy applied to vaccine mandates.)
This type of interpretive Supreme Court has also allowed for a massive expansion of the executive branch over the past 75 years, leading to the bloated behemoth of a federal government we have today. None of these new agencies are highlighted in the constitution and would have been shot down by an originalist, esp silly agencies like the NSA, FBI, CIA, etc that also unconstitutionally spy on Us citizens.
This! Either this is the best they have to offer or the system is rigged and the voters don’t really have a choice. No matter your political beliefs hopefully last night makes that painfully obvious.
A vote for the 3rd party is a vote for Trump. All JB has to do is do commercials that say:
“I may be old, but I get shit done…. And I’m not gonna tell you lies to make myself look like a superhero either.”
They are the two candidates that super donors and PACs have deemed viable to sit in the shade of the shadow cast by big business which is the US government. Those two are ill fit to be doing anything but arguing about their golf handicaps, which insanely enough happened last night.
“Look man, we, uh, we had 10,000, excuse me, 10 billion new jobs. I did that. I, uh, created them, for covid. We stopped that. We made it so, that, uh, Covid, we made the Covid, banned, we got that done. Trump, it’s malarkey man, when I was a boy, we uh, ya know.”
“Just before I got here, I said, we, you can ask the experts, there’s lots of experts, they all say, Trump, he did better on Covid, than anybody in history. I had one of them tell me on the way her. ‘You did so well on Covid.’ I’d have to check the numbers, but nobody, nobody, died of Covid while I was in office.”
“Again gentlemen, the question was about cost of living”
No. Frankenstein's monster of sorts. He mixed together things that were talked about with answers that were somewhat similar to real answers stated for other topics in each man's speech patterns.
Trump was at least on brand for Trump. Maybe even better than his usual performance. Biden was a complete catastrophe. I have no idea what the Democrats are going to do at this point, and they probably don't either. Honestly might be a rare moment of opportunity for a third party.
Maybe if a younger Ron Paul or somebody like him was running. People aren't going to rally around our option this election. He doesn't seem to have a lot of support even among libertarians.
RFK is terrible and not a third party. He's a loser who couldn't get the dem nomination so he took his toys to the third party so he could keep playing. So many of his policies are not about freedom. There have been plenty of posts in this sub on his poor policies in the last year.
RFK is terrible and not a third party. He's a loser who couldn't get the dem nomination so he took his toys to the third party so he could keep playing. So many of his policies are not about freedom. There have been plenty of posts in this sub on his poor policies in the last year.
I’ve been saying that Biden wasn’t as senile as people say.
But goddamn he was a fucking mess tonight. And yeah, Trump is beyond a parody of himself at this point.
You couldn’t have scripted that debate better
I'm a physician, and I have been 90% sure that Biden has Parkinson's for a while. The stiff stance, the face, the trouble navigating stairs, the walk. It all looks like Parkinson's. Tonight didn't change my mind. He will be a mess in 4 years.
I have to be honest in saying that I feel for Biden as a senior citizen, going thru that. But I'm even sadder for what it says about our society, the Dem party, our government - that a figurehead like this could be continued to be propped up as some form of 'leadership'. And that Kamala Harris will likely be propped up as the next figurehead not because of her leadership, her character and her accomplishments, but primarily because she is a woman of color.
My take on this is my memory of the USSR right before it crumbled. In the 80s, the party was decaying and they just kept putting up one old, crusty "leader" after another. The tail was wagging the dog. The party was running the show and the leader was inconsequential. And for a while it seemed like every year their old crusty leader died in office. But it didn't matter.
I don’t won’t him to be president, obviously, but the one silver lining to a Biden victory is we’ll get to see a president die in office for the first time in 6 decades. Historic
Yeah, weren’t you dead wrong on Biden. Had Trump stayed quiet last time like he was this time with the muted mic people likely would’ve noticed Biden had been rambling the entire time, not to mention he’s worse now.
I knew it would help Trump for that exact reason. I wasn’t complaining though both because I dislike Biden and seeing him ramble on was hilarious and I wanted to see if Trump could stay quiet and calm when it wasn’t his time to answer.
I haven't gotten a chance to watch the debate yet but people are saying Biden seemed more energetic and coherent at a watch party he stopped at. Strange that he's fine one time (SOTU) and not the next (1st debate). So many better candidates and this is what we got stuck with.
That's exactly what went through my mind and started laughing when they cut to that after the debate. I thought kindergarten but I think you're right, preschool is the better fit.
He's on a cocktail of drugs. I'm sorry, but it's just plainly obvious. Go back and watch his most recent SOTU. His pupils are dilated as hell at the start of the speech. He then starts to come down about 30-40 minutes after his peak lucidity which is exactly what happens to dementia patients on certain medical therapies.
I'm sure he did have a cold so his voice suffered, but it's clear to me they didn't dose him properly.
Just a wild guess here, but you might just be preaching to the choir here. It might have something to do with the fact that this is a board about Libertarianism.
Just a feeling is all...🤣
Nah, checking my social media last night and this morning and seeing all of the comments from people from both parties, the response seems to be fairly universal. Plus don't assume that everybody who subscribes to this Reddit is 100% pure libertarian. Plenty of us have mixed views and are not staunch idealists.
Because he’s senile and wasn’t exactly popular ever. Just ran on the anti Trump vote. And he was already the VP and liked by the donor class so it was easier getting him over the finish line than the other candidates to beat Bernie. Ironic that the second largest vote count for a candidate was Trump that same year (unless I’m forgetting someone).
Given the near constant population increases, I think it's reasonable to assume that all future winners will set a record for number of votes received, and likely so will the first loser, whomever that may be.
Eh, you're probably right, trump will play more into the corpos than RFK. I might be oversimplifying his liberal ideals compared to the Unipartys corruption
Blackrock, Vanguard, State Street, Raytheon Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumman, and the rest of the defense contractors, not to mention companies that take energy subsidies and the pharmaceutical companies that receive special liability status, are all threatened by RFK Jr. These are the major parties' biggest donors.
That's the saddest aspect to all of this. We're supposed to rely on the news media to cut through the bullshit and hold those with power to account. But they can't do that if they're bought out by the same corporations.
Say what you want about Joe Rogan but his podcast gets way more views than traditional media although he has some silly moments and takes yet he gives lots of people like RFK voice his interview with RFK and the CNN doctor were eye opening. Hopefully more and more people wake up and I think any young person seriously watching this debate today will be able to make wiser decisions down the line.
This is true, and I love Joe Rogan. I would call him the new mainstream media because he outpaces conventional media. I agree with Glenn Greenwald that the old mainstream media isn't so mainstream anymore and should be called what it is: corporate controlled media.
Yeah not a chance I think they’re going to get rid of Biden after this but I think it’s most likely going to be Gavin Newsome and I legitimately would not be surprised if it’s Hildawg again.
That was the worst debate I've ever seen. It looked like 2 drunks arguing over who gets to drive us home, and somehow the better golfer is supposed to be the winner.
She's spot on. There is no decorum left. Back in the day, politicians did not call each other schoolyard names. Putting either buffoon in the White House shows that United States politics are a joke.
edit: spelling
What is being stolen and from whom? I'm not being argumentative, at least not yet, as I genuinely don't know what you're speaking of, and the possibilities are endless...
In the U.S., roughly half of everything you earn over your entire lifetime is taken from you by government. And if you can't prove you worked for it, you deserve even less.
“My golf swing is better than yours Joe, I’ve seen your golf swing, you will not beat me. I am club champion twice, Joe that’s two times I was club champion last year. You got to be smart”
RFK did a live streamed version of the debate with a strict moderator, a live audience and a 2 minute timer. It was far better than anything CNN had to offer on theirs.
I don't how it works in the US but in Argentina if you don't like any of the candidates with chances for presidency you can still vote for other party and they will get some seats in congress even if they get something like 2%. Is it not like this in the US?
We don’t have a multiparty system, so rather than allocate on percentage, the individuals seats are what’s up for grabs. The duopoly “works” at all levels.
Side note, can we borrow Milei?
In the US presidential elections and congressional elections are independent. Races for the House of Representatives are done within districts within states, so any given person can vote in one election for the House of Representatives. Races for the senate are done across the entire state, so any given person can vote in two senatorial races, but it's not like you have one vote across both offices and the top two people win, everybody gets to vote in each senatorial race (It's also worth noting that there are races for senator every 2 years, but senators are elected to 6 year terms, so generally the two senatorial races aren't at the same time anyway).
We have other parties and they are allowed to run, but the system is rigged against them. They don't even get seats in Congress.
The best a third party can hope for is a local office, and maybe a state office if they're particularly lucky.
Thats the result of democracy right there. The greatest overlap of interests will result in the worst of each side of a question.
You cant have the best and brightest minds with the best ideas in charge, because the mob (dumb people) can't understand how to measure that. So you get "him make me feel good" and "him make me mad"
Biden looks so much older than 2020.
Trump was fun in 2016, annoying in 2024.
Shame on both parties for thinking these two were the best options.
I guess I'm going with RFK.
Nah Trump is the best candidate right now from a libertarian perspective. He's working with libertarians in the GOP like Thomas Massie (the most libertarian member of the House in generations) & Rand Paul.
Trump's abortion policy sends back the issue to the states. That's a valuable tenth amendment compromise. He doesn't really give a damn about gay marriage or anything like that. His border policy is the only one that makes sense while we still have government programs in place.
More importantly, he's now proposing eliminating the income tax. Not replacing it with a flat tax. Eliminating the tax outright. Now let's be real. This is probably Trump doing another "big ask." Cruz has suggested Trump seriously wants to eliminate the income tax for anyone earning under $150k. That's based af.
Eliminating the Federal Income tax is a strong Libertarian position. I’ve been preaching this for as long as I can remember and I’m as Libertarian as it gets.
When the income tax first started, it didn't kick in until an inflation adjusted 2024 equivalent of $130k or thereabouts, so it's a reasonable ask. Though it started at only 1%, and scaled to a whopping 9% above a 2024 equivalent of \~$10,000,000 and up. Wouldn't that be nice!
My understanding was eliminating it entirely and replacing with tariffs. The tariffs generally are not libertarian except no country really has a free market so tariffs are a more direct way to balance market manipulations like subsidized industries and not stealing from someone's labor.
Love him or hate him Trump is by far the safer choice.
He is now more than ever a political outsider, the establishment republicans have openly spoken against him and Trump isn't one to forget who spoke up against him. He's also very astute, which is a good thing. His temperament leaves a lot to be desired however he does have quite a reputation for being a good businessman.
I also think that he does not lie but rather grotesquely exaggerates, it is in his nature.
Like they said above he is more libertarian leaning, he does believe in the power of the states.
What concerns me is that he has run up a huge deficit, partly because of COVID (well mostly actually), so it's also unfair to judge him as harshly as any other president given that the people involved like Fauci did him dirty. That shit still has to hit the fan, but I won't forget the shit they gave him for calling it the Wuhan Virus, when everybody slandered him for it.
From a two party perspective, I don't think the US has much of a choice. Trump is by far the safer choice. He has a lot of enemies in Washington and he is actually cognitive which I think is the bare minimum required for a competent leader.
I am a never trumper, but holy shit Biden is not mentally or physically fit to be a Walmart greeter at this point. I voted for gary Johnson in 2012. May have to give rfk Jr a look
Trump getting revenge on the DC establishment for going after his family, trying to imprison him, and then desperately trying to kick him off the ballots should be fun to watch. I hope he truly does get retribution. Fire as many people as possible. Arrest all of the intelligence officials who lied about Russia-gate and the Biden laptop.
The office of President is no longer a privilege or some sort of goal for great minded individuals. It’s a huge burden on one’s life and those who are clearly qualified to become a leader choose not to because it’s not worth it. You can have more freedom, have more impact, and a better income doing something else.
The reality is that people will be voting for their party, and last night's performance won't change that. Trump is right though, we are a failing nation.
Chase is still a libertarian just a left-leaning one
He would have to do a lot of deregulation to even get close to his goals so America would still be better off under him
How is it libertarian to support corporate vax mandates when said corporations are backed and funded by the state? How is it libertarian to flood the country with millions of people who will bring a completely different culture antithetical to libertarian ideals? How is it libertarian to promote child abuse for minors at a time when several studies have come forth showing hormone replacement is actually not entirely reversible?
1. Chase supported private businesses choosing to make rules about wearing masks in their businesses and he promoted voluntary mask-wearing.
2. Open borders is extremely libertarian.
3. I'm not touching the trans kid debate with a 20ft pole
> How is it libertarian to support corporate vax mandates when said corporations are backed and funded by the state?
Chase may actually have changed his mind on the issue of government mandates. Has he been recently asked if he STILL believes in mandatory COVID vaccination? I do agree that if he does believe in mandatory COVID vaccination he's clearly going against libertarianism, but change in people's political beliefs isn't new.
>How is it libertarian to flood the country with millions of people who will bring a completely different culture antithetical to libertarian ideals?
For the record I absolutely *agree* with you that immigration is being weaponized to increase the power of the left. However, you could fairly argue from a libertarian perspective that peaceful people have a right to migrate even if they happen to personally be leftists or if they plan to vote Democrat or if they wish to live in a place that generally votes Democrat (thus increasing that place's population and, consequently, congressional representation). That said I agree with you on a tactical basis that the Donkey Party are cynically and opportunistically using immigration as a kind of gerrymandering. I'm simply trying to steelman Chase's position and show how a libertarian could feasibly reach it.
>How is it libertarian to promote child abuse for minors at a time when several studies have come forth showing hormone replacement is actually not entirely reversible?
Whether or not medical transition for minors counts as *child abuse* is highly contentious (for the record I agree with you that both surgical and medical transition are inappropriate for minors, whereas Chase's position is surgical transition is inappropriate but medical transition should be left up to the doctors and parents). Someone may not be sufficiently familiar with the studies in question, or alternatively they may have fallen for activist agitprop (which is understandable given how certain institutions in this debate have clearly been captured by activists). Libertarians can make mistakes or have incomplete knowledge, too.
I'm not a big fan of Chase personally, but I wouldn't outright accuse him of being a "woke infiltrator" who isn't really a libertarian. I don't think the evidence I've seen is sufficient to substantiate that charge.
There were several things I liked about Trumps first 3 years as President. So why should I vote 3rd party?
What policies did he promote that you disliked?
Y’all should be the biggest proponents of Ranked Choice Voting. If you could show just how many people’s first choice is 3rd party then the quality of our choices in politicians would increase drastically. Competition isn’t just good in business and asymmetry of information is stifling competition in politics.
The only way to get out of this mess is to enact open primaries and Ranked Choice Voting. With how both parties have embedded themselves and change the rules of voting that they are the only two options under the current system. Why we can have hope is for the past 20 years it is usually 80 to 90% disapproval rating so apparently the public wants something else they just don't know how to get what they want.
I'll be down voted per usual but this just solidified my vote for Trump. Super dangerous times and we have no idea who's running shit, and the pendulum has swung far too far left.
I'm not going to vote LP when they don't nominate libertarians. When the LP steps up their game, I'll come back.
I’m a never trumper and I’m voting for trump. What a disaster Biden was, so freaking sad that the party pushed him on us with his obvious decline. He literally did his job to get trump out of office but couldn’t pass the baton to a younger rising star. What a freaking disappointment
Congratulations, you fell for the propaganda calling democracy a danger to democracy. I've seen so many nonsense articles calling it dangerous to democracy when the supreme Court hands down ACTUAL constitutional decisions and not some "re- interpreted" rulings
I’ll choose a guy who did more economic deregulation and placed justices with the constitution in mind on the Supreme Court who’s biggest flaw is he doesn’t want to acknowledge loss and has supporters who went into a building and scared a bunch of statist crooks over a statist crook who does the opposite.
But if you do feel Trump is worse than I wholeheartedly support your decision to choose third party. I live in a blue state and I’m voting whoever has the best chance at beating Biden in this state whether that’s Trump or RFK (our state LP isn’t even bothering putting their candidate on the ballot).
What should really be coming out of this is we as a political party set the small differences in candidates aside and ban together and maximize the popular vote for one candidate. While the one the LP chose is not the greatest. Splitting our vote amongst many different candidates is not helpful.
After that debate. We have an amazing opportunity to form together and vote. Don’t vote for “Ron Paul” cause he doesn’t want it and you’re hurting yourself by doing so. The first step is getting 5% of the popular vote unified on one candidate.
Think like a libertarian politician that wants to affect change and not someone who thinks they are so morally high that some small thing about a candidate makes you not vote for them…
Idk if voting third party will do anything. Many are set in their ways and voting third party may only serve to help the other major party candidate. Its sad, but it is the truth.
You’d have to get a third party choice that really influences and motivate people. Honestly, the closest this election is RFK Jr and after this debate his poll numbers might shoot up because idk how anyone can support Biden at this point other than “Trump bad” but a ton of people still aren’t going to support Trump so that’s probably their best alternative. If you really don’t want to support Trump (don’t vote for Biden) then I would encourage you to RFK Jr for the sole reason he has the best chance and he’s not exactly a fan favorite of the war machine.
It is, and most of the more dogmatic ones will stay with Biden and some may go towards another third party. If RFK is smart, he’ll try to spin it more about big pharma and pivot away and try to push issues like his plan for the housing crisis and other economic and foreign policies. And hopefully people aren’t as dogmatic about the vaccines given the world is on fire.
If Trump were smart and a better debater he should set up a general election debate between himself and RFK Jr like Reagan and Anderson did. It may help or hurt (I wrote two big paragraphs and realized I didn’t need to say that much) but it’ll hurt Biden regardless which helps both Trump and Kennedy and if he can get on a stage it’ll present him more like a serious candidate which will further hurt Biden (maybe Trump) and help Kennedy. And for the voters, it’ll give them a chance to hear his actual plans he has which he can give coherently (unlike Trump who starts talking about other subjects which is why he’d need to be a better debater or Biden who rambles like a dumbass) and decide whether they like it or not.
But he has the best chance out of the 3rd party candidates (and after last night’s debate I wouldn’t be surprised if his polling went up) and he’s polling better than any of the other ones since Perot in the 90s. Even if he doesn’t win but does well and if Biden loses maybe it’ll be a signal to the DNC that they shot themselves in the foot since he originally ran for the Democrat nomination until they froze him out of the primary.
So, we (my wife and I) watched the debates.
My wife is a never Trumper, and was planning on voting against him, which to her meant Biden. I’m no fan of the democrats, and lean way more to the right than she does, meaning mainly I’ll vote republican (or occasionally libertarian). After that performance, she couldn’t in good conscience vote Biden, but refuses to vote Trump.
I proposed (prior to the debate) that if she is so inclined, we both vote libertarian, even though we know very little of the candidate, since otherwise our votes would cancel each other out, and this would give small boost to a party we both support. I think she’s receptive still to that.
Plus, to stem off the same criticisms I received in other subs, we can fill out ballots ahead of time and drop them off on Election Day, so even if I didn’t trust her (I do), I could see how she voted and she could do the same for me. Though even if that weren’t the case I would trust her on that.
So, in this case, the libertarian party probably has two more votes than they would have otherwise.
Yeah pretty much every libertarian is voting trump. Reddit is just another leftist echo chamber. They’ve just bout banned all conservative subs. Don’t pay attention to any bs propaganda on here this election year
Even these two walking Depends ads are better than the clown the libertarian party chose. Better at what, I don't know.
Make Washington irrelevant by building 3rd parties (and 4th, and 5th...) locally and at the state levels, people who will tell Washington to pound sand. States can and should force the fed back into its boundaries.
I'm going to be voting for Trump because he is on average closer to my ideals than Biden is.
One of them will be President. I'm going to hope for the one who I hate less instead of going for a moralistic grandstand.
Tough call. I desperately want to vote my conscience, my principles. But there's no clear choice. One of my principles is the intent to disrupt the Deep State but more importantly the collectivist, leftist agendas so prevalent today. But who among the candidates (all of them) does that best? I'm still not sure...
R guy was a sweaty fool waving his hands. I don’t remember a damn thing he said.
D guy slow as fuck. Talking under his breath. It was a low point for America.
To think anyone “won” that is insane. I’m sorry Rs but that was not the “win” yall think it was. It just showed exactly what we were all thinking. These guys are not it.
I will once again vote 3rd party so that when Candidate X wins, all the fans of Candidate Y can tell me I "wasted my vote."
I'd like to apologize to the fans of Candidate Y for voting for what I believe in.
RFK, LFG!!!
Seriously, I can't believe he isn't more popular. I blame the media and their success in the picture they've painted of him.
I believe very strongly that his positions are what we need right now.
Ain't gonna happen. Third party on a national office is a waste of a vote. If you want to get third parties, save them for local elections. Until ranked voting is a thing, the least worst is what we get. And the lying felon is the very worst in this case.
Considering the Libertarian party decided this was the year to choose someone unpalatable as the candidate, I think I’ll choose the unpalatable person with the chance of winning.
People focus way too much on the individual versus what the platform is because they can’t accomplish the platform on their own versus with others in the house, Senate and administrative positions.
I also in good conscience can’t vote into the duopoly, but I would be far more comfortable voting against someone who wants to implement the project 2025 BS then someone who doesn’t. I’ll tell you that much.
The two are miles apart and it's idiotic to act like they are the same. The main parties will never put up a real libertarian and never have. Get a few good policy W's with Trump instead of the CCP candidate.
Still not convinced the bait and switch with pretending Biden has been capable up until now isn't a conspiracy to insert someone of their choosing right before the convention.
Agree, 100% ...Vote RFK Jr...Vote Libertarian...Write in Thomas Massie...heck, write in "Mickey Mouse" or "The Lizard People"
...but don't vote for Biden or Trump. They're both unfit to lead. They're both drug prohibitionists. They're both gun prohibitionists. They're both central bank errand boys who lack economic comprehension. They're both philosophical laggards who fail to understand that the Constitution was written to limit police power. They've both promoted oath-breaking totalitarians to the highest offices of power in the USA (Biden: Garland, Harris; Trump: Sessions, Barr, Pompeo).
A pox on both their houses.
I watched highlights... and I didn't feel like I watched a debate. I felt like I watched some tribal unga bunga ceremony where people dance around a campfire while the chieftain prepares a human sacrifice.
The fact that they are the best the R and D parties can get is just soul crushing.
They aren't the best. They're just who've been chosen. Everyone else dropped out instead of trying
The best people don't want to be president. They probably dont even want to be politicians. What we get are the sleeziest and most power-hungry of us running for these positions.
Exactly. Politics is an adverse selection process because the kind of people who want to be involved typically like the idea of power over others. Consequently, as South Park memorably put it, it *always* ends up as a choice between a Giant Douche and a Turd Sandwich.
That sadly becomes more true every election. In this case it’s a douche vs a turd sandwich part 2!
I’m going to be charitable: the kind of people who are willing to subject themselves to the process of being elected president are not the kind of people who should hold the job.
Do you think if we had actual limited government then this principle would change? Like if the government had only the powers us libertarians want them to have then the best people would put themselves forward? Just something I was pondering on
No, you'd still get people that want the title and the pomp and illusions of grandeur. The idea is that they can keep the ceremony without having enough authority to do real damage.
I’d be good with that. Hell, it that was all that was involved, I’d run for office! I’m just not narcissistic enough to think that out of the entire country, I’d be the best for running it all with the amount of power and influence the presidency has.
IMO, a limited government creates a power vacuum which is naturally filled. This is what happened to America. We tried a small federal government but inevitably power hungry people took control. And since we didn’t really plan for it, we end up with a heaping bureaucracy forged by chaos and greed
"But whether the Constitution really be one thing, or another, this much is certain - that it has either authorized such a government as we have had, or has been powerless to prevent it. In either case it is unfit to exist." - Lysander Spooner.
There will never be a piece of paper that can stop anything, it's just a piece of paper. It will always come down to the people.
The constitution kept government fairly limited for the first 175 years of America’s existence. That is pretty impressive to me! The real problem is a bunch of non-originalist Supreme Court justices that incorrectly assume they can interpret the constitution however they want. My favorite example is Roe v Wade. Although I’m pro choice, there is nothing even remotely close to anything mentioning abortion in the constitution, so Congress should have had to pass a law to protect abortion in a federal level. Instead, the Supreme Court justices wanted it, so they loosely interpreted the 14th amendment to protect a women’s right to medical privacy from the state, effectively passing a new law. (Funny enough they didn’t think this same right to medical privacy applied to vaccine mandates.) This type of interpretive Supreme Court has also allowed for a massive expansion of the executive branch over the past 75 years, leading to the bloated behemoth of a federal government we have today. None of these new agencies are highlighted in the constitution and would have been shot down by an originalist, esp silly agencies like the NSA, FBI, CIA, etc that also unconstitutionally spy on Us citizens.
Politicians are what is wrong with the country. We need a non-politican to run. But will never happen in the swamp
The other GOP candidates were never going to win against trump and the DNC froze out all of Biden’s opponents.
This! Either this is the best they have to offer or the system is rigged and the voters don’t really have a choice. No matter your political beliefs hopefully last night makes that painfully obvious.
A vote for the 3rd party is a vote for Trump. All JB has to do is do commercials that say: “I may be old, but I get shit done…. And I’m not gonna tell you lies to make myself look like a superhero either.”
They are the two candidates that super donors and PACs have deemed viable to sit in the shade of the shadow cast by big business which is the US government. Those two are ill fit to be doing anything but arguing about their golf handicaps, which insanely enough happened last night.
And of course the Libertarian party nominated the weakest candidate they've had for a long time. I'm dreading November.
Have you seen the Libertarian party nom?
It was probably the most painful thing I’ve experienced in my life and I had a Brian aneurysm, hell almost had another one trying to get through that.
“Look man, we, uh, we had 10,000, excuse me, 10 billion new jobs. I did that. I, uh, created them, for covid. We stopped that. We made it so, that, uh, Covid, we made the Covid, banned, we got that done. Trump, it’s malarkey man, when I was a boy, we uh, ya know.” “Just before I got here, I said, we, you can ask the experts, there’s lots of experts, they all say, Trump, he did better on Covid, than anybody in history. I had one of them tell me on the way her. ‘You did so well on Covid.’ I’d have to check the numbers, but nobody, nobody, died of Covid while I was in office.” “Again gentlemen, the question was about cost of living”
I couldn’t tell what the higher count was between Trump making stuff up and Biden failing to make it through sentence.
It was really really bad. Oh Lord.
They both lied. One lied more than the other. Because one lied less does that make him better?
Are these actual quotes?
It was actually worse. When asked about childcare, they argued about their respective golf handicaps.
No, just slight exaggerations of the gist of the debate.
Not far off sadly.
No. Frankenstein's monster of sorts. He mixed together things that were talked about with answers that were somewhat similar to real answers stated for other topics in each man's speech patterns.
I just read this with obamas voice.
Did Brian get better?
No I’m regarded and can’t spell check apparently.
You’re not regarded, just a little slow in the Brian today
Trump was at least on brand for Trump. Maybe even better than his usual performance. Biden was a complete catastrophe. I have no idea what the Democrats are going to do at this point, and they probably don't either. Honestly might be a rare moment of opportunity for a third party.
Maybe if a younger Ron Paul or somebody like him was running. People aren't going to rally around our option this election. He doesn't seem to have a lot of support even among libertarians.
Then maybe RFK? Honestly, I would love to see a third candidate truly in the running
A Kennedy would be *the* establishment vote.
Oliver is a joke. I’m voting RFK purely out of protest
RFK is terrible and not a third party. He's a loser who couldn't get the dem nomination so he took his toys to the third party so he could keep playing. So many of his policies are not about freedom. There have been plenty of posts in this sub on his poor policies in the last year.
The fact that this was posted twice, and offers absolutely nothing of substance, is very telling
> who couldn't get the dem nomination This is a point of pride the DNC is the most corrupt political machine since boss tweed.
RFK is terrible and not a third party. He's a loser who couldn't get the dem nomination so he took his toys to the third party so he could keep playing. So many of his policies are not about freedom. There have been plenty of posts in this sub on his poor policies in the last year.
I’ve been saying that Biden wasn’t as senile as people say. But goddamn he was a fucking mess tonight. And yeah, Trump is beyond a parody of himself at this point. You couldn’t have scripted that debate better
I'm a physician, and I have been 90% sure that Biden has Parkinson's for a while. The stiff stance, the face, the trouble navigating stairs, the walk. It all looks like Parkinson's. Tonight didn't change my mind. He will be a mess in 4 years.
I have to be honest in saying that I feel for Biden as a senior citizen, going thru that. But I'm even sadder for what it says about our society, the Dem party, our government - that a figurehead like this could be continued to be propped up as some form of 'leadership'. And that Kamala Harris will likely be propped up as the next figurehead not because of her leadership, her character and her accomplishments, but primarily because she is a woman of color.
My take on this is my memory of the USSR right before it crumbled. In the 80s, the party was decaying and they just kept putting up one old, crusty "leader" after another. The tail was wagging the dog. The party was running the show and the leader was inconsequential. And for a while it seemed like every year their old crusty leader died in office. But it didn't matter.
I don’t won’t him to be president, obviously, but the one silver lining to a Biden victory is we’ll get to see a president die in office for the first time in 6 decades. Historic
Hello Satan, nice to hear from you!
Then what do we have to look forward too, Kamala Harris? 🤦🏻♂️
Just what I'm looking for in politics, entertainment....
Yeah, weren’t you dead wrong on Biden. Had Trump stayed quiet last time like he was this time with the muted mic people likely would’ve noticed Biden had been rambling the entire time, not to mention he’s worse now.
Biden's team thought muted microphones would help Biden, but it lools like it actually helped Trump stay out of his own way to an extent.
I knew it would help Trump for that exact reason. I wasn’t complaining though both because I dislike Biden and seeing him ramble on was hilarious and I wanted to see if Trump could stay quiet and calm when it wasn’t his time to answer.
I haven't gotten a chance to watch the debate yet but people are saying Biden seemed more energetic and coherent at a watch party he stopped at. Strange that he's fine one time (SOTU) and not the next (1st debate). So many better candidates and this is what we got stuck with.
The same watch party where Jill said “Joe, you did such a great job. You answered every questions. You knew all the facts” like he’s in preschool.
That's exactly what went through my mind and started laughing when they cut to that after the debate. I thought kindergarten but I think you're right, preschool is the better fit.
It’s still making me laugh. That was one of the best parts of the night.
He didn't have to respond as spontaneously at the State of the Union.
He's on a cocktail of drugs. I'm sorry, but it's just plainly obvious. Go back and watch his most recent SOTU. His pupils are dilated as hell at the start of the speech. He then starts to come down about 30-40 minutes after his peak lucidity which is exactly what happens to dementia patients on certain medical therapies. I'm sure he did have a cold so his voice suffered, but it's clear to me they didn't dose him properly.
Just a wild guess here, but you might just be preaching to the choir here. It might have something to do with the fact that this is a board about Libertarianism. Just a feeling is all...🤣
I figured, but everywhere else I’d be down voted anyway, so at least I can get the words out here
Fair enough
Nah, checking my social media last night and this morning and seeing all of the comments from people from both parties, the response seems to be fairly universal. Plus don't assume that everybody who subscribes to this Reddit is 100% pure libertarian. Plenty of us have mixed views and are not staunch idealists.
I mean, try getting libertarians to agree on anything beyond a general disdain for statism. For every two libertarians, there are three opinions.
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Because he’s senile and wasn’t exactly popular ever. Just ran on the anti Trump vote. And he was already the VP and liked by the donor class so it was easier getting him over the finish line than the other candidates to beat Bernie. Ironic that the second largest vote count for a candidate was Trump that same year (unless I’m forgetting someone).
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Given the near constant population increases, I think it's reasonable to assume that all future winners will set a record for number of votes received, and likely so will the first loser, whomever that may be.
The L candidate isn’t polling well enough to make the debate
That's such a shitty qualifier. It literally exists to do that to third parties, it's an embarrassment to a republic.
20 dollars, they knock off biden and pick up RFK to get a chance at winning
You might have the first half right, but it ain’t going to be RFK.
Pfizer would never allow the DNC to run RFK, Jr
Yeah, they would rather Trump win over RFK Jr.
Eh, you're probably right, trump will play more into the corpos than RFK. I might be oversimplifying his liberal ideals compared to the Unipartys corruption
Why? (Genuine Question)
Blackrock, Vanguard, State Street, Raytheon Lockheed Martin, Northrop Grumman, and the rest of the defense contractors, not to mention companies that take energy subsidies and the pharmaceutical companies that receive special liability status, are all threatened by RFK Jr. These are the major parties' biggest donors.
And also the tv networks donors.
That's the saddest aspect to all of this. We're supposed to rely on the news media to cut through the bullshit and hold those with power to account. But they can't do that if they're bought out by the same corporations.
Say what you want about Joe Rogan but his podcast gets way more views than traditional media although he has some silly moments and takes yet he gives lots of people like RFK voice his interview with RFK and the CNN doctor were eye opening. Hopefully more and more people wake up and I think any young person seriously watching this debate today will be able to make wiser decisions down the line.
This is true, and I love Joe Rogan. I would call him the new mainstream media because he outpaces conventional media. I agree with Glenn Greenwald that the old mainstream media isn't so mainstream anymore and should be called what it is: corporate controlled media.
Trump vs RFK is a nightmare for the Covidian progressive branch of the party which is basically the whole Democratic party
Yeah not a chance I think they’re going to get rid of Biden after this but I think it’s most likely going to be Gavin Newsome and I legitimately would not be surprised if it’s Hildawg again.
Imagine an RFK vs Jill Stein debate. It would be like a flashback to the times when presidential candidates were intelligent and devoid of dementia
That was the worst debate I've ever seen. It looked like 2 drunks arguing over who gets to drive us home, and somehow the better golfer is supposed to be the winner.
My wife said it best." This is like watching two of my first graders arguing "
She's spot on. There is no decorum left. Back in the day, politicians did not call each other schoolyard names. Putting either buffoon in the White House shows that United States politics are a joke. edit: spelling
She was right. The golf-handicap discussion was truly a low point.
“I did not have sex with a pornstar” was pretty bad too.
And look who the Libertarian party put forth 🤦
It's just a big song and dance to distract you from the enormous theft taking place every day. Who cares who becomes president?
Preach!
What is being stolen and from whom? I'm not being argumentative, at least not yet, as I genuinely don't know what you're speaking of, and the possibilities are endless...
In the U.S., roughly half of everything you earn over your entire lifetime is taken from you by government. And if you can't prove you worked for it, you deserve even less.
“My golf swing is better than yours Joe, I’ve seen your golf swing, you will not beat me. I am club champion twice, Joe that’s two times I was club champion last year. You got to be smart”
RFK did a live streamed version of the debate with a strict moderator, a live audience and a 2 minute timer. It was far better than anything CNN had to offer on theirs.
I don't how it works in the US but in Argentina if you don't like any of the candidates with chances for presidency you can still vote for other party and they will get some seats in congress even if they get something like 2%. Is it not like this in the US?
: ) it is not like this in the U.S.
I see, thanks for the answer.
We don’t have a multiparty system, so rather than allocate on percentage, the individuals seats are what’s up for grabs. The duopoly “works” at all levels. Side note, can we borrow Milei?
>Side note, can we borrow Milei? Sorry, we need him.
Ok, but we get him next
The US is winner takes all.
Kinda sucks then.
In the US presidential elections and congressional elections are independent. Races for the House of Representatives are done within districts within states, so any given person can vote in one election for the House of Representatives. Races for the senate are done across the entire state, so any given person can vote in two senatorial races, but it's not like you have one vote across both offices and the top two people win, everybody gets to vote in each senatorial race (It's also worth noting that there are races for senator every 2 years, but senators are elected to 6 year terms, so generally the two senatorial races aren't at the same time anyway).
Nope. Sadly, our minor parties get nothing, which greatly impedes their growth.
We have other parties and they are allowed to run, but the system is rigged against them. They don't even get seats in Congress. The best a third party can hope for is a local office, and maybe a state office if they're particularly lucky.
Yes that’s the problem with our system. It’s winner takes all.
Thats the result of democracy right there. The greatest overlap of interests will result in the worst of each side of a question. You cant have the best and brightest minds with the best ideas in charge, because the mob (dumb people) can't understand how to measure that. So you get "him make me feel good" and "him make me mad"
Biden looks so much older than 2020. Trump was fun in 2016, annoying in 2024. Shame on both parties for thinking these two were the best options. I guess I'm going with RFK.
Anybody but Joe Biden.
Anybody but anybody. The entire system is fucked and a third party candidate isn’t going to fix it.
And anybody but Trump.
Nah Trump is the best candidate right now from a libertarian perspective. He's working with libertarians in the GOP like Thomas Massie (the most libertarian member of the House in generations) & Rand Paul. Trump's abortion policy sends back the issue to the states. That's a valuable tenth amendment compromise. He doesn't really give a damn about gay marriage or anything like that. His border policy is the only one that makes sense while we still have government programs in place. More importantly, he's now proposing eliminating the income tax. Not replacing it with a flat tax. Eliminating the tax outright. Now let's be real. This is probably Trump doing another "big ask." Cruz has suggested Trump seriously wants to eliminate the income tax for anyone earning under $150k. That's based af.
You'd have to believe what Trump says to think that any of that is true. The man lies about everything he says to get what he wants.
Eliminating the Federal Income tax is a strong Libertarian position. I’ve been preaching this for as long as I can remember and I’m as Libertarian as it gets.
If true HUGE
When the income tax first started, it didn't kick in until an inflation adjusted 2024 equivalent of $130k or thereabouts, so it's a reasonable ask. Though it started at only 1%, and scaled to a whopping 9% above a 2024 equivalent of \~$10,000,000 and up. Wouldn't that be nice!
My understanding was eliminating it entirely and replacing with tariffs. The tariffs generally are not libertarian except no country really has a free market so tariffs are a more direct way to balance market manipulations like subsidized industries and not stealing from someone's labor.
Love him or hate him Trump is by far the safer choice. He is now more than ever a political outsider, the establishment republicans have openly spoken against him and Trump isn't one to forget who spoke up against him. He's also very astute, which is a good thing. His temperament leaves a lot to be desired however he does have quite a reputation for being a good businessman. I also think that he does not lie but rather grotesquely exaggerates, it is in his nature. Like they said above he is more libertarian leaning, he does believe in the power of the states. What concerns me is that he has run up a huge deficit, partly because of COVID (well mostly actually), so it's also unfair to judge him as harshly as any other president given that the people involved like Fauci did him dirty. That shit still has to hit the fan, but I won't forget the shit they gave him for calling it the Wuhan Virus, when everybody slandered him for it. From a two party perspective, I don't think the US has much of a choice. Trump is by far the safer choice. He has a lot of enemies in Washington and he is actually cognitive which I think is the bare minimum required for a competent leader.
I am a never trumper, but holy shit Biden is not mentally or physically fit to be a Walmart greeter at this point. I voted for gary Johnson in 2012. May have to give rfk Jr a look
Trump getting revenge on the DC establishment for going after his family, trying to imprison him, and then desperately trying to kick him off the ballots should be fun to watch. I hope he truly does get retribution. Fire as many people as possible. Arrest all of the intelligence officials who lied about Russia-gate and the Biden laptop.
Dems are imploding so hard today and it’s a beautiful sight to behold
The worst part is that the two candidates are supported by the same group.
Yep, American voters
Special interest groups*
Where is the best breakdown to see what the third party candidates stand for?
The office of President is no longer a privilege or some sort of goal for great minded individuals. It’s a huge burden on one’s life and those who are clearly qualified to become a leader choose not to because it’s not worth it. You can have more freedom, have more impact, and a better income doing something else.
What 3rd party is any better? None of our 3rd party option is great.
The reality is that people will be voting for their party, and last night's performance won't change that. Trump is right though, we are a failing nation.
We fucked up with Chase. This could have been a Libertarian victory with Dave Smith. America is fucked.
I think 5% was possible with the right candidate. As it is, I'll either be voting for another 3rd Party option or abstaining.
Chase is still a libertarian just a left-leaning one He would have to do a lot of deregulation to even get close to his goals so America would still be better off under him
How is it libertarian to support corporate vax mandates when said corporations are backed and funded by the state? How is it libertarian to flood the country with millions of people who will bring a completely different culture antithetical to libertarian ideals? How is it libertarian to promote child abuse for minors at a time when several studies have come forth showing hormone replacement is actually not entirely reversible?
1. Chase supported private businesses choosing to make rules about wearing masks in their businesses and he promoted voluntary mask-wearing. 2. Open borders is extremely libertarian. 3. I'm not touching the trans kid debate with a 20ft pole
> How is it libertarian to support corporate vax mandates when said corporations are backed and funded by the state? Chase may actually have changed his mind on the issue of government mandates. Has he been recently asked if he STILL believes in mandatory COVID vaccination? I do agree that if he does believe in mandatory COVID vaccination he's clearly going against libertarianism, but change in people's political beliefs isn't new. >How is it libertarian to flood the country with millions of people who will bring a completely different culture antithetical to libertarian ideals? For the record I absolutely *agree* with you that immigration is being weaponized to increase the power of the left. However, you could fairly argue from a libertarian perspective that peaceful people have a right to migrate even if they happen to personally be leftists or if they plan to vote Democrat or if they wish to live in a place that generally votes Democrat (thus increasing that place's population and, consequently, congressional representation). That said I agree with you on a tactical basis that the Donkey Party are cynically and opportunistically using immigration as a kind of gerrymandering. I'm simply trying to steelman Chase's position and show how a libertarian could feasibly reach it. >How is it libertarian to promote child abuse for minors at a time when several studies have come forth showing hormone replacement is actually not entirely reversible? Whether or not medical transition for minors counts as *child abuse* is highly contentious (for the record I agree with you that both surgical and medical transition are inappropriate for minors, whereas Chase's position is surgical transition is inappropriate but medical transition should be left up to the doctors and parents). Someone may not be sufficiently familiar with the studies in question, or alternatively they may have fallen for activist agitprop (which is understandable given how certain institutions in this debate have clearly been captured by activists). Libertarians can make mistakes or have incomplete knowledge, too. I'm not a big fan of Chase personally, but I wouldn't outright accuse him of being a "woke infiltrator" who isn't really a libertarian. I don't think the evidence I've seen is sufficient to substantiate that charge.
The amount of Republicans in here is so disheartening. Like Chase isn't miles better than these two.
He’s getting my vote but I’ve always voted 3rd party, don’t see any point changing it now.
There were several things I liked about Trumps first 3 years as President. So why should I vote 3rd party? What policies did he promote that you disliked?
Hmmm. No responses. I always wanted to ask that question but was afraid.
I might vote for Biden now. 🤷🏼♂️ He beat Medicare so maybe he’ll defeat Social Security next. 💀
“You beat Medicare, you beat it to death” that was one of my favorite lines of the night.
There is one good reason to vote for Biden: it’s been 61 years since a president died in office, and it’d be fun if it happened again
Yes. Fun times when your elected head of government dies and an unelected vice president takes over.
Kamala…
I have just one question. Who do you trust more with economy and putting more money in your pockets. Biden or Trump?
Y’all should be the biggest proponents of Ranked Choice Voting. If you could show just how many people’s first choice is 3rd party then the quality of our choices in politicians would increase drastically. Competition isn’t just good in business and asymmetry of information is stifling competition in politics.
The only way to get out of this mess is to enact open primaries and Ranked Choice Voting. With how both parties have embedded themselves and change the rules of voting that they are the only two options under the current system. Why we can have hope is for the past 20 years it is usually 80 to 90% disapproval rating so apparently the public wants something else they just don't know how to get what they want.
We need ranked choice voting so there is less risk voting third party.
I'll be down voted per usual but this just solidified my vote for Trump. Super dangerous times and we have no idea who's running shit, and the pendulum has swung far too far left. I'm not going to vote LP when they don't nominate libertarians. When the LP steps up their game, I'll come back.
Our state LP said they’re not going to bother putting the LP presidential candidate on the ballot.
I’m a never trumper and I’m voting for trump. What a disaster Biden was, so freaking sad that the party pushed him on us with his obvious decline. He literally did his job to get trump out of office but couldn’t pass the baton to a younger rising star. What a freaking disappointment
I think Trump is more dangerous than Biden. I'll vote for neither. Again.
Congratulations, you fell for the propaganda calling democracy a danger to democracy. I've seen so many nonsense articles calling it dangerous to democracy when the supreme Court hands down ACTUAL constitutional decisions and not some "re- interpreted" rulings
I’ll choose a guy who did more economic deregulation and placed justices with the constitution in mind on the Supreme Court who’s biggest flaw is he doesn’t want to acknowledge loss and has supporters who went into a building and scared a bunch of statist crooks over a statist crook who does the opposite. But if you do feel Trump is worse than I wholeheartedly support your decision to choose third party. I live in a blue state and I’m voting whoever has the best chance at beating Biden in this state whether that’s Trump or RFK (our state LP isn’t even bothering putting their candidate on the ballot).
What should really be coming out of this is we as a political party set the small differences in candidates aside and ban together and maximize the popular vote for one candidate. While the one the LP chose is not the greatest. Splitting our vote amongst many different candidates is not helpful. After that debate. We have an amazing opportunity to form together and vote. Don’t vote for “Ron Paul” cause he doesn’t want it and you’re hurting yourself by doing so. The first step is getting 5% of the popular vote unified on one candidate. Think like a libertarian politician that wants to affect change and not someone who thinks they are so morally high that some small thing about a candidate makes you not vote for them…
Idk if voting third party will do anything. Many are set in their ways and voting third party may only serve to help the other major party candidate. Its sad, but it is the truth.
You’d have to get a third party choice that really influences and motivate people. Honestly, the closest this election is RFK Jr and after this debate his poll numbers might shoot up because idk how anyone can support Biden at this point other than “Trump bad” but a ton of people still aren’t going to support Trump so that’s probably their best alternative. If you really don’t want to support Trump (don’t vote for Biden) then I would encourage you to RFK Jr for the sole reason he has the best chance and he’s not exactly a fan favorite of the war machine.
Idk if people can empathize with RFK vaccine stance. It is a sore spot for him.
It is, and most of the more dogmatic ones will stay with Biden and some may go towards another third party. If RFK is smart, he’ll try to spin it more about big pharma and pivot away and try to push issues like his plan for the housing crisis and other economic and foreign policies. And hopefully people aren’t as dogmatic about the vaccines given the world is on fire. If Trump were smart and a better debater he should set up a general election debate between himself and RFK Jr like Reagan and Anderson did. It may help or hurt (I wrote two big paragraphs and realized I didn’t need to say that much) but it’ll hurt Biden regardless which helps both Trump and Kennedy and if he can get on a stage it’ll present him more like a serious candidate which will further hurt Biden (maybe Trump) and help Kennedy. And for the voters, it’ll give them a chance to hear his actual plans he has which he can give coherently (unlike Trump who starts talking about other subjects which is why he’d need to be a better debater or Biden who rambles like a dumbass) and decide whether they like it or not. But he has the best chance out of the 3rd party candidates (and after last night’s debate I wouldn’t be surprised if his polling went up) and he’s polling better than any of the other ones since Perot in the 90s. Even if he doesn’t win but does well and if Biden loses maybe it’ll be a signal to the DNC that they shot themselves in the foot since he originally ran for the Democrat nomination until they froze him out of the primary.
Don't vote for the LP this time, given who their nominee is they've basically been co-opted by leftists.
So, we (my wife and I) watched the debates. My wife is a never Trumper, and was planning on voting against him, which to her meant Biden. I’m no fan of the democrats, and lean way more to the right than she does, meaning mainly I’ll vote republican (or occasionally libertarian). After that performance, she couldn’t in good conscience vote Biden, but refuses to vote Trump. I proposed (prior to the debate) that if she is so inclined, we both vote libertarian, even though we know very little of the candidate, since otherwise our votes would cancel each other out, and this would give small boost to a party we both support. I think she’s receptive still to that. Plus, to stem off the same criticisms I received in other subs, we can fill out ballots ahead of time and drop them off on Election Day, so even if I didn’t trust her (I do), I could see how she voted and she could do the same for me. Though even if that weren’t the case I would trust her on that. So, in this case, the libertarian party probably has two more votes than they would have otherwise.
I have never voted for a Republican or Democrat in any presidential election and I never will. This will be my 8th election for president.
After that debate I might actually immigrate back to my ancestral homeland!
Nice try DNC
Yeah pretty much every libertarian is voting trump. Reddit is just another leftist echo chamber. They’ve just bout banned all conservative subs. Don’t pay attention to any bs propaganda on here this election year
Even these two walking Depends ads are better than the clown the libertarian party chose. Better at what, I don't know. Make Washington irrelevant by building 3rd parties (and 4th, and 5th...) locally and at the state levels, people who will tell Washington to pound sand. States can and should force the fed back into its boundaries.
I'm going to be voting for Trump because he is on average closer to my ideals than Biden is. One of them will be President. I'm going to hope for the one who I hate less instead of going for a moralistic grandstand.
This is why we lose
Tough call. I desperately want to vote my conscience, my principles. But there's no clear choice. One of my principles is the intent to disrupt the Deep State but more importantly the collectivist, leftist agendas so prevalent today. But who among the candidates (all of them) does that best? I'm still not sure...
R guy was a sweaty fool waving his hands. I don’t remember a damn thing he said. D guy slow as fuck. Talking under his breath. It was a low point for America. To think anyone “won” that is insane. I’m sorry Rs but that was not the “win” yall think it was. It just showed exactly what we were all thinking. These guys are not it.
I will once again vote 3rd party so that when Candidate X wins, all the fans of Candidate Y can tell me I "wasted my vote." I'd like to apologize to the fans of Candidate Y for voting for what I believe in.
RFK, LFG!!! Seriously, I can't believe he isn't more popular. I blame the media and their success in the picture they've painted of him. I believe very strongly that his positions are what we need right now.
Ain't gonna happen. Third party on a national office is a waste of a vote. If you want to get third parties, save them for local elections. Until ranked voting is a thing, the least worst is what we get. And the lying felon is the very worst in this case.
If the liberty party offered a Mike Rowe - dirty jobs type and were able to campaign fund him, liberty would win.
Considering the Libertarian party decided this was the year to choose someone unpalatable as the candidate, I think I’ll choose the unpalatable person with the chance of winning.
Nah, trump.
The libertarian candidate isnt a good option this year either though
If voting 3rd party go RFK over the embarrassment the libertarians have running.
Insert meme with democrats winning by 1 vote and taking all the guns.
People focus way too much on the individual versus what the platform is because they can’t accomplish the platform on their own versus with others in the house, Senate and administrative positions. I also in good conscience can’t vote into the duopoly, but I would be far more comfortable voting against someone who wants to implement the project 2025 BS then someone who doesn’t. I’ll tell you that much.
Why are there removed comments in a Libertarian subreddit?
You have my promise that I will be voting third party
I don’t even know who the third party candidate is. I could Google it, but if I haven’t heard by now, he’s not going to get many votes.
The two are miles apart and it's idiotic to act like they are the same. The main parties will never put up a real libertarian and never have. Get a few good policy W's with Trump instead of the CCP candidate.
Still not convinced the bait and switch with pretending Biden has been capable up until now isn't a conspiracy to insert someone of their choosing right before the convention.
I really want to, but I don't really like any of the third party/independent options, either.
I’ll vote third party. May not go libertarian party but at this point I feel like it doesn’t matter if D or R wins so might as well help the lil guy
Agree, 100% ...Vote RFK Jr...Vote Libertarian...Write in Thomas Massie...heck, write in "Mickey Mouse" or "The Lizard People" ...but don't vote for Biden or Trump. They're both unfit to lead. They're both drug prohibitionists. They're both gun prohibitionists. They're both central bank errand boys who lack economic comprehension. They're both philosophical laggards who fail to understand that the Constitution was written to limit police power. They've both promoted oath-breaking totalitarians to the highest offices of power in the USA (Biden: Garland, Harris; Trump: Sessions, Barr, Pompeo). A pox on both their houses.
This is the libertarian subreddit. Why didn't you say vote for the libertarian candidate. They do have one y'know.
I watched highlights... and I didn't feel like I watched a debate. I felt like I watched some tribal unga bunga ceremony where people dance around a campfire while the chieftain prepares a human sacrifice.