Not true I had a child with my husband a year before we were married. If a man wants to show you respect he will regardless. Some men just don’t know how to act.
So what he marrys you and gets….kids? That’s what he’s holding out for? Nah typically that’s her dream. A man marries you because he wants to period some get married and never have kids, explain that one. And it isn’t sex because without marriage he can keep having as much as he wants so why does anyone commit? Respect. Love. Self respect. Goals. Spirituality. Purpose and that comes with or without the former.
Yes, have you ever heard of the old saying of you don’t buy the cow when you can get the milk for free. Well, that’s the scenario. Why would anybody ever marry someone if they already have kids with them? What is the incentive? There is none.
I 100% agree that the man has it much easier in this respect but a child is still a commitment for both parents. 18+ years of commitment in most cases.
Pregnancy is a life-risking, permanent body-altering medical event. It’s a massive change and costs thousands of dollars and carries complications for life. People love to gloss over this fact but there is no male analog for this.
In addition, pregnancy and the following parental leave are impactful to our careers, and they permanently change our earning potential.
Women are then, generally, the default parent. It should not be this way, but it still is. We miss work more for kid-related activities, and again, it impacts our work life and earnings.
Cultural pressure allows for men to leave their families, but not women - and also, women generally *just don’t want to leave their kids*. I don’t know what it is about men that feel okay leaving their kids with mom 90% of the time if they break up, but it’s really not acceptable. Children are WORK that men just don’t want to do, on a global scale, and are happy to leave to mom.
Also, there’s mean, shitty discourse and thoughts from men that single moms are ‘used’ and it severely impacts the ability of a single mom to find a quality male partner. Men overwhelmingly want single childless women.
All this to say - it is COMPLETELY stupid and risky to have a child with a man you’re not married to. It carries lifelong physical risks, limits your value on the dating marketplace, and impacts your career. There are no do-overs. The MOST important choice a woman will ever make is “who will I have children with/should I have children at all?” *The commitment level from men and women re:children IS NOT THE SAME.*
Personally I have opted out of having kids at all, and got spayed. It’s not a financial and personal risk I am willing to take.
😂😂😂😂 there is a father-less epidemic in the US right now. So many dads bounce. They even have to make adverts to show how being a dad is ‘cool’ nowadays just like how they make tobacco free PSA adverts.
https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/new-dadication-ads-aim-to-inspire-responsible-fatherhood-301853239.html
Yes. You are.
You are suggesting husband privilege is something to “hold back” to get what you want.
Marriage is something two people enter into together and with eyes wide open.
You are saying there is some privilege (unclear in what you are talking about) that you want to do have with your partner but you should hold it back to get what you want (marriage).
So. Your assumption about other people is based on observation.
Your conclusion is that by giving a man a baby and living with him is he won’t want to get married.
So you should hold that back.
This is what you have said.
This is hyper manipulative.
It also shows your beliefs on the value of marriage. You don’t see inherent value in marriage itself. As if you did you wouldn’t suggest holding it back as a form of manipulation to get it.
As the only time that works is if both sides have equally low views of marriage.
If someone has an equal view of marriage your manipulation is not only not necessary but insulting.
As someone that places a high value of marriage and on my marriage I could not marry someone with that view. It is a fundamental disagreement.
Well, you have previously posted that you would leave your boyfriend if you could get enough money to give yourself and your girls a good life. And you could, of course, get more money from him by divorcing him if you were married. Perhaps your boyfriend wants to avoid giving you that option.
He can figure it out, it's not rocket science. And if you want to leave him, why are you thinking about marriage? Perhaps, in his gut, he realizes that the only reason you want to marry him is for the money?
He knows you're not going anywhere so he has no need to get married... And/ or he's still looking for the perfect girl and you're the placeholder, even with kids..
Which is a good damn reason not to want to get legally married. I know I, for one, do not want a business deal with my partner. I want a romantic relationship and an emotional commitment.
I don’t consider myself “unmarried”. My husband and I consider ourselves husband and wife and have made a lifetime commitment to each other. We just have chosen to leave the business contract out of the equation.
Look up the term “future faking”. I’m not in this predicament but I wish you the best of luck. This happens often it seems and from what I’ve learned about it, men become comfortable with their partners and therefore don’t propose or fully commit. They feel that they already *have* you and that you’re not going anywhere. Similarly, like when some partners stop making an effort in their marriage after a few years have passed.
I wish you the best, but what I would advise is not to have ANY more children with him. If that’s not already an obvious course. Also, you can never believe a man’s words over his actions, or anyone’s for that matter. 6 years is a long time to not even have a ring yet….
In our country it’s important incase of medical emergencies or death of a partner to access accounts etc to be married. You don’t need a huge expensive wedding. Something small and personal is better I think.
If he is honest you will leave. He will lose time with his kids and probably a large amount of his income for child support. He will also be a single parent when he does see his kids. Come on. You gave him everything without marriage. He has absolutely no reason to marry you.
Have you ever thought of leaving him? You are young and have a future ahead of you. Don't ruin for a boyfriend and become a lifelong shack up honey. You deserve so much better than that!!
Seriously, OP has said that if she could get enough money to live without him she would. So why would he commit to her? She sounds nasty. Also, if he does give her a ring at this point it’ll be a shut up ring with a long loooong engagement. Enough to placate her, but still cover his own ass.
Why would he commit to her? She had his kids that alone is the primary reason for him to commit.
But ultimately she determines if she gets pregnant and has children with a man she is not married too regardless of what he has told her.
It sounds like your relationship has some very deep issues that should be addressed before moving forward with any more commitment on your part.
From your post history, your husband struggles with porn, lying and making you feel undesired on a constant basis. Are you sure you want to tie your wagon to that right now, OP? It is so much harder to leave once you are married with intertwining finances and legal documents. I think if anything, you need to be separating from him for a while to think about what YOU want from life. You need to be putting your foot down. He is addicted to porn and he is not putting you and your daughters first by constantly lusting after other women.
You don't deserve that OP. You sound like a wonderful mother who is devoted to him and your daughters. Do you know how many men would kill for a woman like you?
There is no incentive for a man to get married if he doesn’t want to and doesn’t love her like that. You are the one that’s going to be tied down because you have kids. For him he has 1 foot out the door. He knows that he can bail at any time because there is no ring and it’ll be months maybe even years before he has to start paying.
As long as he’s getting what he wants, he’s not going to get married. He’s still shopping for the right one. He enjoys the security of having something while he’s looking. I hate to be the bearer of bad news.
I wouldn't leave but I would make a plan. I'd layout all the concerns, even powerpoint it if you have to.
"If I don't have X, Y, and Z through a formal union, then me and the kids are fucked. I can't take this mega-big risk that you won't find someone else or walk away without sending any help this way. I'm in a very precarious position. I'm afraid and I need this security blanket. If we're not married by X date, I have to move on."
There are couples who do this for income limit and tax benefits. In some states, he legally doesn't have custody of the kids unless there is a formal court order, so they are therefore in your household size and not his. You're more likely to get medicaid insurance because your income is not combined. I know a girl who had a whole $50k wedding just to NOT get legally married because of this lol
For others, they're just comfortable and happy the way that they are. They see marriage as a lifestyle and not a milestone. If marriage is really important to you, talk about it more and set it in stone that it is important. I have friends (without kids) who have given their partners ultimatums. If they weren't married by their 10th year together, she would be moving on. We're too old to be wasting our time with people who don't appreciate the same things as we do. Make him see how important it is to you.
I have the benefits right now because right now I am basically a single mother to the government and my daughters eat a lot so I do receive food stamps and Medicaid but only for them. I’m not married because I haven’t been proposed to, not because I want the benefits more than a ring but I do know people who have done this in real life.
Yeah our 6 year anniversary is in May and no ring yet, not even proposed lmfao.
I didn't mean to say this was your reason. I was just sharing a reason why some people build a future together with no legal marriage since that was the question asked. I know marriage is important to you.
I feel like it's always the case that the woman pushes for the next step (engagement) more than men. Who knows why. My story is that for us, I initiated the ring shopping, and a whole year later, it was the trip that I booked AND planned that he ended up proposing on. We were together 5.5yr with a 2.5yo. Men can be too comfortable so sometimes you do just need to give them the push to initiate the proposal. Another thing that delayed it too (according to him) was that we realized how expensive weddings were before we got engaged. Decided because of COVID, maybe we should look vendors two years in advance. That's when we found out we'd have to budget a minimum of $40k. So during this time of not being engaged, we were simply saving towards a wedding/our future too.
For me, I'm not religious. No matter what we have chosen to commit to one another. We made the choice that we didn't need to have a marriage contract. That's all it is to us. We have been together 22 years. One grown child and 1 preteen. My BIL got his GF pregnant so they got married. They didn't even last 5 years. Biggest waste of money ever spent. For them and us we had to travel across the entire country in Canada to go to it.
I find people want a wedding, not a marriage.
1. For many people, marriage isn’t a logical end goal. If you’re in a religion which views marriage as a Sacrament- then obviously pursuing a marriage makes sense because you’re making a religious covenant (and in most religions, you abstain from certain “perks” of “family” unless you’ve made the commitment to be one, such as living together, sharing finances, having sex, etc.) Additionally, for those who are religious- there are very clear roles for the husband/wife and significant consequences for divorce unless it is a (rare) exception (in most religions “we aren’t in love” or “it’s not working out” or “irreconcilable differences” are not valid reasons for a divorce and if you got a legal one, you’d still be theologically tied to your spouse through the covenant and dating someone else would be infidelity and a sin you would shoulder. It’s not permissible in many religions to just file divorce because you don’t want to be married anymore and then date/remarry.) If you’re not religious, there is not a covenant aspect, you’re not committing to something bigger than a legal contract, and you’re not waiting to sleep together/live together/act as a family. It’s purely legal.
2. In terms of a legal contract… that is only beneficial sometimes. You can get around most things. If you have joint bank accounts, your partner has a right. List them as a medical POA or beneficiary on life insurance and they have rights. State they are to receive things in your will, and they have rights. You have to do slightly more legwork on setting things up well- but it’s easy to change if things don’t really work out. The only thing you really give up that doesn’t have a workaround with some extra effort is filing jointly on taxes (at least in the US). This is worth it for some people because marriage means potential for divorce, alimony, spousal property, and complications. It’s legitimately beneficial for some people because of kids from another relationship, government benefits, spousal support from an ex, etc.
3. I think if you have someone who isn’t religious and is comfortable living in this situation and the only real reason to marry is financial/possibly medical even though that is a hard claim since there are workarounds… it’s a bit weird to freak out if they don’t want to get married. Marriage is just a contract to make a commitment as long as you feel like making it (because there isn’t a covenant aspect). It’s literally the exact same thing as agreeing to raise kids together, live together, and be together as long as you feel like it. There are no ramifications for being divorced- there are just complications. Why would it matter? You either stay together or you don’t. It doesn’t mean anything. The nuances vary relationship to relationship but it makes sense that many people wouldn’t want that.
That said: it’s okay to *just want* marriage but you shouldn’t expect it. If you wanted a marriage, you probably should have brought that up way earlier so he could share if he wants one as well. This would have been smart to discuss before choosing to have children. It’s not like you didn’t know you were having kids with a boyfriend? He isn’t obligated to marry you because of that.
Similarly, You’re not obligated to stay with someone who doesn’t want to marry you if you desire marriage. (Especially if you’re as unhappy as your post history indicates.) You owe your kids a good childhood and a healthy co parenting relationship. You do not owe each other a marriage.
In reddit I recently read a man complain about his gf or fiancé wanting to abort a baby because he refused to marry her even after like 4 years of relationship together. He wanted the baby but refused to marry her.
When people asked why don’t you marry her, his justification is that divorce is messy, and he would need to part with money, assets, alimony, etc. He sounded like an a** post reading his replies.
Also when someone gets all the benefits of a wife without the obligation to marry, they see no need to do the same.
Would you ever consider proposing to him? I know it’s not conventional but I’ve heard of some women popping the question … this way you can see where he’s at with it and if he says no, then you know where you stand and can go from there.
I realize this is not what you’re asking but just throwing it out there.
Marriage is not the end goal for everyone (and not even for everyone who gets married). I understand fully why people don’t get married in places where they get similar benefits and treatment for just living together in terms of tax, inheritance social security etc. In my mind it’s only problematic in situations like yours- where one person wants to get married and the other doesn’t. It’s bound to build resentment and conflict in a relationship unless you are good communicators who can talk it out and find a mutual compromise.
A lot of the answers here are bizarre to me, like "why buy the cow when you get the milk for free?" Women aren't cows and a longterm partner should love you and WANT to create a secure and stable life for BOTH of you.
If he doesn't want to marry you... and it sure seems like he doesn't... then he has whatever reasons he has. Probably some fear of change or commitment.
But I don't see the point in everyone here acting like you're stupid for "giving him husband privileges" or whatever. With the right person you shouldn't have to jump hoops and play games to trick them into a marriage. My wife and Iived together for years before getting married and I never thought "I already have everything I need why would I marry her?" because A. I wanted stability for both of us and B. Even if I didn't, I'd want to make her happy.
I would say because you're a placeholder. He has no incentive to marry you. If someone comes along that he has a fancy for, no divorce. He moves on with little inconvenience.
Baby mommas don't get the same respect as wives. Sad but true.
In my state (Minnesota) a single mom will usually receive free medical care for childbirth. They also receive subsidized childcare. I know people who didn't get married before kids specifically for this reason alone... And once you no longer need those programs, and the kids are grown most people aren't interested or able to spend money on a wedding, so they just continue on as-is.
All this advice has been pretty terrible.
Marriage is not something you should manipulate someone into. Holding “kids” back is not an approach. Having kids a mutually appropriate time is healthy but just manipulation is gross.
What is getting in the way of marriage for him? What has he said the delay is?
Do you have the funds to pay for the ring/wedding?
Are there current financial benefits of the current situation?
Marriage is one type of commitment and far from the only one.
Personally I don’t mess around with sex outside of marriage. I feel like it makes sense that many guys would want to get the most benefits (sex, house helper, etc) while also keeping options as open as possible. Marriage is more of a commitment that follows you, and if you can get everything without commitment why make it…
No, it's not holding back as a way to force him into it. If a man values me and sees me as wife material and worthy of commitment, I don't need to manipulate him. He will make that decision on his own. That said, there are so many women so desperate to marry the man they loved for years, given their youth to, given their time and bodies and children to. Oftentimes, he doesn't care. Some even pick up and leave or engage in infidelity.
That woman is left feeling used up and broken all because she gave everything to a man who never truly committed to her. I am not saying this is always the case. And perhaps I'm a bit jaded. But I do have enough personal and life experience to support my OPINION. You don't have to agree. In fact, I'd like to agree to disagree. It's pointless to keep going back and forth.
If he wanted to marry you he ultimately would! Marriage is a huge deal and a legal obligation to the other person… they are contractually obligated to support you… as an individual… whereas having kids with someone is a big deal but for some people it is less of a commitment as there is much less legal strings attached… and they have no obligation to you that is enforceable by law… only to your children…
With my partner 2 kids later. Always wanted to marry. We got engaged eventually.
It was never that I didn’t want to. But the scenario of how my proposal would look, what the ring would cost, how everything I imagined would be and how it would all play out. Never matriculated because my finances were behind my imagination.
Now even still a wedding or no wedding this constant back and forth. Where I’d be fine just signing the papers and coming back around to a party or celebration later. But that’s my story, how I wanted things to go, and how things were going weren’t lining up. I wasn’t ready to give
In until they did.
But eventually the pressure of why aren’t we engaged became a thing so I produced a ring and a proposal in a fashion much against my taste.
But now we still aren’t married. But if you love each other does it really matter?
The ring doesn’t mean he values you, it’s how he treat you and the family you’ve built together. So if you’re wondering if someone out there would marry you. It’s not about the ring right, it’s how you feel you’re being valued. Wishing you luck though! We are 31 and 30 with 2 kids 6 and 4
Why is it the man that MUST do the asking? You want to know his real, honest answer and reason?
Propose to HIM! Take him to a nice restaurant or pretty place with both your parents or something. Get down on one knee and propose with a ring for him. Tell him that it's way past time and that you want to spend the rest of your lives together, just pour your heart out.
If he says yes, then plan a simple cheap wedding for the summer. If he says no, ask him why. It also helps to stop having sex before marriage. If he wants you to perform wifely duties, then he needs to make you his wife first. After all, there's that old saying "why buy the cow when you get the milk for free?"
Bc you gave a man husband privileges with no true commitment from him.
This is an example of old fashioned wisdom being absolutely correct
This is the answer. There's no incentive to marry you since he has all the benefits already.
Not true I had a child with my husband a year before we were married. If a man wants to show you respect he will regardless. Some men just don’t know how to act.
What’s the incentive to be married if you’re giving it for free? I don’t understand why that’s so hard for people to figure out.
So what he marrys you and gets….kids? That’s what he’s holding out for? Nah typically that’s her dream. A man marries you because he wants to period some get married and never have kids, explain that one. And it isn’t sex because without marriage he can keep having as much as he wants so why does anyone commit? Respect. Love. Self respect. Goals. Spirituality. Purpose and that comes with or without the former.
Yes, have you ever heard of the old saying of you don’t buy the cow when you can get the milk for free. Well, that’s the scenario. Why would anybody ever marry someone if they already have kids with them? What is the incentive? There is none.
🎯 🎯
A child is a commitment. Wtf
It’s a commitment from her, not him.
Both parents. It takes two. Thats like saying once she gives birth, he bear no responsibility
I don't know why, but the men always have an easier time walking away.
Nah it's a commitment for both parents.
Does absolutely not fully change his body. She sacrificed her body for him, bore his kid.
I 100% agree that the man has it much easier in this respect but a child is still a commitment for both parents. 18+ years of commitment in most cases.
Pregnancy is a life-risking, permanent body-altering medical event. It’s a massive change and costs thousands of dollars and carries complications for life. People love to gloss over this fact but there is no male analog for this. In addition, pregnancy and the following parental leave are impactful to our careers, and they permanently change our earning potential. Women are then, generally, the default parent. It should not be this way, but it still is. We miss work more for kid-related activities, and again, it impacts our work life and earnings. Cultural pressure allows for men to leave their families, but not women - and also, women generally *just don’t want to leave their kids*. I don’t know what it is about men that feel okay leaving their kids with mom 90% of the time if they break up, but it’s really not acceptable. Children are WORK that men just don’t want to do, on a global scale, and are happy to leave to mom. Also, there’s mean, shitty discourse and thoughts from men that single moms are ‘used’ and it severely impacts the ability of a single mom to find a quality male partner. Men overwhelmingly want single childless women. All this to say - it is COMPLETELY stupid and risky to have a child with a man you’re not married to. It carries lifelong physical risks, limits your value on the dating marketplace, and impacts your career. There are no do-overs. The MOST important choice a woman will ever make is “who will I have children with/should I have children at all?” *The commitment level from men and women re:children IS NOT THE SAME.* Personally I have opted out of having kids at all, and got spayed. It’s not a financial and personal risk I am willing to take.
How? They both made that child if she doesn’t put her foot down that’s her full plate
A child is a commitment to *the child/ren*, **from** the parent\[s\] **not** to the mother \[in this specific instance\] of said child/ren.
😂😂😂😂 there is a father-less epidemic in the US right now. So many dads bounce. They even have to make adverts to show how being a dad is ‘cool’ nowadays just like how they make tobacco free PSA adverts. https://www.prnewswire.com/news-releases/new-dadication-ads-aim-to-inspire-responsible-fatherhood-301853239.html
Then why're you with him
The privileges of a marriage are both people. The idea of holding out to manipulate marriage is insane.
I'm not talking about manipulating anything.
Yes. You are. You are suggesting husband privilege is something to “hold back” to get what you want. Marriage is something two people enter into together and with eyes wide open. You are saying there is some privilege (unclear in what you are talking about) that you want to do have with your partner but you should hold it back to get what you want (marriage).
I am saying most men arent going to bother making you their wife if you already do everything a wife would.
That’s because you don’t see value in marriage I guess. Don’t place that on men
That's untrue and unfair to assume.
I believe it is what you assumed of the man by saying you gave all of these things therefore no reason to marriage.
It's not an assumption. It's an observation based on my experience and knowledge of the world.
So. Your assumption about other people is based on observation. Your conclusion is that by giving a man a baby and living with him is he won’t want to get married. So you should hold that back. This is what you have said. This is hyper manipulative. It also shows your beliefs on the value of marriage. You don’t see inherent value in marriage itself. As if you did you wouldn’t suggest holding it back as a form of manipulation to get it. As the only time that works is if both sides have equally low views of marriage. If someone has an equal view of marriage your manipulation is not only not necessary but insulting. As someone that places a high value of marriage and on my marriage I could not marry someone with that view. It is a fundamental disagreement.
Well, you have previously posted that you would leave your boyfriend if you could get enough money to give yourself and your girls a good life. And you could, of course, get more money from him by divorcing him if you were married. Perhaps your boyfriend wants to avoid giving you that option.
He doesn’t know I think this.
He can figure it out, it's not rocket science. And if you want to leave him, why are you thinking about marriage? Perhaps, in his gut, he realizes that the only reason you want to marry him is for the money?
I think the point is less whether you’ve said that to him and more that he will be able to tell if you have one foot out the door.
Huh
He knows you're not going anywhere so he has no need to get married... And/ or he's still looking for the perfect girl and you're the placeholder, even with kids..
Some boys will never be men
Or maybe he just doesn’t see a value to turning what is supposed to be a romantic commitment into a business deal.
[удалено]
Not everyone wants that though. It doesn’t matter what “it’s always been”.
[удалено]
Which is a good damn reason not to want to get legally married. I know I, for one, do not want a business deal with my partner. I want a romantic relationship and an emotional commitment.
[удалено]
To me, there is nothing LESS romantic than turning your relationship into a business deal.
[удалено]
I don’t consider myself “unmarried”. My husband and I consider ourselves husband and wife and have made a lifetime commitment to each other. We just have chosen to leave the business contract out of the equation.
Look up the term “future faking”. I’m not in this predicament but I wish you the best of luck. This happens often it seems and from what I’ve learned about it, men become comfortable with their partners and therefore don’t propose or fully commit. They feel that they already *have* you and that you’re not going anywhere. Similarly, like when some partners stop making an effort in their marriage after a few years have passed. I wish you the best, but what I would advise is not to have ANY more children with him. If that’s not already an obvious course. Also, you can never believe a man’s words over his actions, or anyone’s for that matter. 6 years is a long time to not even have a ring yet….
Future faking. Been there, survived that! It's an awful thing!
Agreed, it's abuse IMO
In our country it’s important incase of medical emergencies or death of a partner to access accounts etc to be married. You don’t need a huge expensive wedding. Something small and personal is better I think.
I think the same way but tbh I think he just doesn’t want to marry me. I don’t understand why he’s just not honest tho. Like why go years lying.
If he is honest you will leave. He will lose time with his kids and probably a large amount of his income for child support. He will also be a single parent when he does see his kids. Come on. You gave him everything without marriage. He has absolutely no reason to marry you.
From meeting and having two kids in the space of six years is a lot in a short period of time. Just plan it together.
I can’t because he says he does want to but later and I call it bs now that it’s been 6 years.
If he wanted to he would. He clearly just wants to string you along. You have to decide if this is ok or if you need more.
Have you ever thought of leaving him? You are young and have a future ahead of you. Don't ruin for a boyfriend and become a lifelong shack up honey. You deserve so much better than that!!
You had two babies with a man and didn’t require him to marry you. Stop expecting marriage from him. You are just making yourself miserable.
Seriously, OP has said that if she could get enough money to live without him she would. So why would he commit to her? She sounds nasty. Also, if he does give her a ring at this point it’ll be a shut up ring with a long loooong engagement. Enough to placate her, but still cover his own ass.
Why would he commit to her? She had his kids that alone is the primary reason for him to commit. But ultimately she determines if she gets pregnant and has children with a man she is not married too regardless of what he has told her.
I'm curious why you agreed to have kids with him first if you wanted marriage
It sounds like your relationship has some very deep issues that should be addressed before moving forward with any more commitment on your part. From your post history, your husband struggles with porn, lying and making you feel undesired on a constant basis. Are you sure you want to tie your wagon to that right now, OP? It is so much harder to leave once you are married with intertwining finances and legal documents. I think if anything, you need to be separating from him for a while to think about what YOU want from life. You need to be putting your foot down. He is addicted to porn and he is not putting you and your daughters first by constantly lusting after other women. You don't deserve that OP. You sound like a wonderful mother who is devoted to him and your daughters. Do you know how many men would kill for a woman like you?
Probably because you’re already doing wife duty without wife commitment or benefits….
There is no incentive for a man to get married if he doesn’t want to and doesn’t love her like that. You are the one that’s going to be tied down because you have kids. For him he has 1 foot out the door. He knows that he can bail at any time because there is no ring and it’ll be months maybe even years before he has to start paying. As long as he’s getting what he wants, he’s not going to get married. He’s still shopping for the right one. He enjoys the security of having something while he’s looking. I hate to be the bearer of bad news.
I feel this too, Idk if I should leave.
If it were me, I’d break up, or I’d give him a deadline to make a decision. Have an exit strategy.
I wouldn't leave but I would make a plan. I'd layout all the concerns, even powerpoint it if you have to. "If I don't have X, Y, and Z through a formal union, then me and the kids are fucked. I can't take this mega-big risk that you won't find someone else or walk away without sending any help this way. I'm in a very precarious position. I'm afraid and I need this security blanket. If we're not married by X date, I have to move on."
There are couples who do this for income limit and tax benefits. In some states, he legally doesn't have custody of the kids unless there is a formal court order, so they are therefore in your household size and not his. You're more likely to get medicaid insurance because your income is not combined. I know a girl who had a whole $50k wedding just to NOT get legally married because of this lol For others, they're just comfortable and happy the way that they are. They see marriage as a lifestyle and not a milestone. If marriage is really important to you, talk about it more and set it in stone that it is important. I have friends (without kids) who have given their partners ultimatums. If they weren't married by their 10th year together, she would be moving on. We're too old to be wasting our time with people who don't appreciate the same things as we do. Make him see how important it is to you.
I have the benefits right now because right now I am basically a single mother to the government and my daughters eat a lot so I do receive food stamps and Medicaid but only for them. I’m not married because I haven’t been proposed to, not because I want the benefits more than a ring but I do know people who have done this in real life. Yeah our 6 year anniversary is in May and no ring yet, not even proposed lmfao.
I didn't mean to say this was your reason. I was just sharing a reason why some people build a future together with no legal marriage since that was the question asked. I know marriage is important to you. I feel like it's always the case that the woman pushes for the next step (engagement) more than men. Who knows why. My story is that for us, I initiated the ring shopping, and a whole year later, it was the trip that I booked AND planned that he ended up proposing on. We were together 5.5yr with a 2.5yo. Men can be too comfortable so sometimes you do just need to give them the push to initiate the proposal. Another thing that delayed it too (according to him) was that we realized how expensive weddings were before we got engaged. Decided because of COVID, maybe we should look vendors two years in advance. That's when we found out we'd have to budget a minimum of $40k. So during this time of not being engaged, we were simply saving towards a wedding/our future too.
Whats the point now? For him right now just means a bix unnecessary expense on a wedding
Because he doesn’t want to marry you. If a man wants you to be his wife, trust and believe that he will absolutely propose to you. It’s that simple.
For me, I'm not religious. No matter what we have chosen to commit to one another. We made the choice that we didn't need to have a marriage contract. That's all it is to us. We have been together 22 years. One grown child and 1 preteen. My BIL got his GF pregnant so they got married. They didn't even last 5 years. Biggest waste of money ever spent. For them and us we had to travel across the entire country in Canada to go to it. I find people want a wedding, not a marriage.
1. For many people, marriage isn’t a logical end goal. If you’re in a religion which views marriage as a Sacrament- then obviously pursuing a marriage makes sense because you’re making a religious covenant (and in most religions, you abstain from certain “perks” of “family” unless you’ve made the commitment to be one, such as living together, sharing finances, having sex, etc.) Additionally, for those who are religious- there are very clear roles for the husband/wife and significant consequences for divorce unless it is a (rare) exception (in most religions “we aren’t in love” or “it’s not working out” or “irreconcilable differences” are not valid reasons for a divorce and if you got a legal one, you’d still be theologically tied to your spouse through the covenant and dating someone else would be infidelity and a sin you would shoulder. It’s not permissible in many religions to just file divorce because you don’t want to be married anymore and then date/remarry.) If you’re not religious, there is not a covenant aspect, you’re not committing to something bigger than a legal contract, and you’re not waiting to sleep together/live together/act as a family. It’s purely legal. 2. In terms of a legal contract… that is only beneficial sometimes. You can get around most things. If you have joint bank accounts, your partner has a right. List them as a medical POA or beneficiary on life insurance and they have rights. State they are to receive things in your will, and they have rights. You have to do slightly more legwork on setting things up well- but it’s easy to change if things don’t really work out. The only thing you really give up that doesn’t have a workaround with some extra effort is filing jointly on taxes (at least in the US). This is worth it for some people because marriage means potential for divorce, alimony, spousal property, and complications. It’s legitimately beneficial for some people because of kids from another relationship, government benefits, spousal support from an ex, etc. 3. I think if you have someone who isn’t religious and is comfortable living in this situation and the only real reason to marry is financial/possibly medical even though that is a hard claim since there are workarounds… it’s a bit weird to freak out if they don’t want to get married. Marriage is just a contract to make a commitment as long as you feel like making it (because there isn’t a covenant aspect). It’s literally the exact same thing as agreeing to raise kids together, live together, and be together as long as you feel like it. There are no ramifications for being divorced- there are just complications. Why would it matter? You either stay together or you don’t. It doesn’t mean anything. The nuances vary relationship to relationship but it makes sense that many people wouldn’t want that. That said: it’s okay to *just want* marriage but you shouldn’t expect it. If you wanted a marriage, you probably should have brought that up way earlier so he could share if he wants one as well. This would have been smart to discuss before choosing to have children. It’s not like you didn’t know you were having kids with a boyfriend? He isn’t obligated to marry you because of that. Similarly, You’re not obligated to stay with someone who doesn’t want to marry you if you desire marriage. (Especially if you’re as unhappy as your post history indicates.) You owe your kids a good childhood and a healthy co parenting relationship. You do not owe each other a marriage.
In reddit I recently read a man complain about his gf or fiancé wanting to abort a baby because he refused to marry her even after like 4 years of relationship together. He wanted the baby but refused to marry her. When people asked why don’t you marry her, his justification is that divorce is messy, and he would need to part with money, assets, alimony, etc. He sounded like an a** post reading his replies. Also when someone gets all the benefits of a wife without the obligation to marry, they see no need to do the same.
After reading some comments maybe I understood. He probably found out that you want to leave him and to steal more money like a leech
My grandma always used to say - Why would they buy the cow when they get the milk for free?
Sometimes it's because someone got burnt in a divorce, and it's not always the man.
Would you ever consider proposing to him? I know it’s not conventional but I’ve heard of some women popping the question … this way you can see where he’s at with it and if he says no, then you know where you stand and can go from there. I realize this is not what you’re asking but just throwing it out there.
Marriage is not the end goal for everyone (and not even for everyone who gets married). I understand fully why people don’t get married in places where they get similar benefits and treatment for just living together in terms of tax, inheritance social security etc. In my mind it’s only problematic in situations like yours- where one person wants to get married and the other doesn’t. It’s bound to build resentment and conflict in a relationship unless you are good communicators who can talk it out and find a mutual compromise.
He already has the milk, he doesn’t want the cow
Cause you acting like wifey already. Why should he make you his wife and be forced to share finances and assets when you’re already acting like wife?
A lot of the answers here are bizarre to me, like "why buy the cow when you get the milk for free?" Women aren't cows and a longterm partner should love you and WANT to create a secure and stable life for BOTH of you. If he doesn't want to marry you... and it sure seems like he doesn't... then he has whatever reasons he has. Probably some fear of change or commitment. But I don't see the point in everyone here acting like you're stupid for "giving him husband privileges" or whatever. With the right person you shouldn't have to jump hoops and play games to trick them into a marriage. My wife and Iived together for years before getting married and I never thought "I already have everything I need why would I marry her?" because A. I wanted stability for both of us and B. Even if I didn't, I'd want to make her happy.
I would say because you're a placeholder. He has no incentive to marry you. If someone comes along that he has a fancy for, no divorce. He moves on with little inconvenience. Baby mommas don't get the same respect as wives. Sad but true.
In my state (Minnesota) a single mom will usually receive free medical care for childbirth. They also receive subsidized childcare. I know people who didn't get married before kids specifically for this reason alone... And once you no longer need those programs, and the kids are grown most people aren't interested or able to spend money on a wedding, so they just continue on as-is.
All this advice has been pretty terrible. Marriage is not something you should manipulate someone into. Holding “kids” back is not an approach. Having kids a mutually appropriate time is healthy but just manipulation is gross. What is getting in the way of marriage for him? What has he said the delay is? Do you have the funds to pay for the ring/wedding? Are there current financial benefits of the current situation? Marriage is one type of commitment and far from the only one.
For the same reason corporations prefer slaves to employees. They want someone else’s labor without having to pay for it.
Personally I don’t mess around with sex outside of marriage. I feel like it makes sense that many guys would want to get the most benefits (sex, house helper, etc) while also keeping options as open as possible. Marriage is more of a commitment that follows you, and if you can get everything without commitment why make it…
No, it's not holding back as a way to force him into it. If a man values me and sees me as wife material and worthy of commitment, I don't need to manipulate him. He will make that decision on his own. That said, there are so many women so desperate to marry the man they loved for years, given their youth to, given their time and bodies and children to. Oftentimes, he doesn't care. Some even pick up and leave or engage in infidelity. That woman is left feeling used up and broken all because she gave everything to a man who never truly committed to her. I am not saying this is always the case. And perhaps I'm a bit jaded. But I do have enough personal and life experience to support my OPINION. You don't have to agree. In fact, I'd like to agree to disagree. It's pointless to keep going back and forth.
If he wanted to marry you he ultimately would! Marriage is a huge deal and a legal obligation to the other person… they are contractually obligated to support you… as an individual… whereas having kids with someone is a big deal but for some people it is less of a commitment as there is much less legal strings attached… and they have no obligation to you that is enforceable by law… only to your children…
Why not?
With my partner 2 kids later. Always wanted to marry. We got engaged eventually. It was never that I didn’t want to. But the scenario of how my proposal would look, what the ring would cost, how everything I imagined would be and how it would all play out. Never matriculated because my finances were behind my imagination. Now even still a wedding or no wedding this constant back and forth. Where I’d be fine just signing the papers and coming back around to a party or celebration later. But that’s my story, how I wanted things to go, and how things were going weren’t lining up. I wasn’t ready to give In until they did. But eventually the pressure of why aren’t we engaged became a thing so I produced a ring and a proposal in a fashion much against my taste. But now we still aren’t married. But if you love each other does it really matter? The ring doesn’t mean he values you, it’s how he treat you and the family you’ve built together. So if you’re wondering if someone out there would marry you. It’s not about the ring right, it’s how you feel you’re being valued. Wishing you luck though! We are 31 and 30 with 2 kids 6 and 4
Why is it the man that MUST do the asking? You want to know his real, honest answer and reason? Propose to HIM! Take him to a nice restaurant or pretty place with both your parents or something. Get down on one knee and propose with a ring for him. Tell him that it's way past time and that you want to spend the rest of your lives together, just pour your heart out. If he says yes, then plan a simple cheap wedding for the summer. If he says no, ask him why. It also helps to stop having sex before marriage. If he wants you to perform wifely duties, then he needs to make you his wife first. After all, there's that old saying "why buy the cow when you get the milk for free?"
I was with you until you advised to cut off the sex. That’s never a good thing in any relationship