Was fun in the first episode she appeared in. Felt a little weird when she popped up again but tbh I’m just not a fan of how they’ve tried to make it so all the episodes tie together at the end of each season; a big draw for What If is getting a new story each time.
Tying everything together was better in the first season, especially because I didn't see it coming. Felt more forced and Strange Supreme wasn't as interesting as the first season either.
Kahoori was a cool probably character. I liked her more than some of the other ones.
>a big draw for What If is getting a new story each time.
Continuity is what *What If...?* is supposed to avoid. I don't think the comic even had multiple issue arcs at first, just one-and-dones
I liked Kahori OK
The comic would very occasionally have multi-issue arcs. Later it would occasionally be released as mini-series with related themes (such as five issues each of “What is X Character became Venom”).
What this cartoon really wants to do, flirts with doing, has not committed to, is being Exiles, wherein multiple characters from different universes are teamed up to journey to other different universes and correct things.
> What this cartoon really wants to do, flirts with doing, has not committed to, is being Exiles
New to me, TIL! I def see what you're saying in that
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exiles_(Marvel_Comics)
+1 for this recommendation.
Honestly Exiles is one of those comics that I knew nothing about before I started reading comics and quickly became one of my favorites.
Blink’s sacrifice in Phalanx Covenant was the first emotional gut punch I experienced reading comics.
I was 11 at the time, having started reading comics because of X-Men TAS. I didn’t start reading older comics until later, and I was in love with those newer early-90s characters.
Honestly 2nd season felt more tired compared to First one and outside of a few episode, which were great, overall felt average that you Watch once, have fun, and wont look at it again nor remember it
That's how I felt about it. It wasn't bad, it just felt like a waste of the premise of What If.
I get why they're doing it, I just don't agree with the path they chose. You have a vehicle where you can do basically any crazy thing you want without having to explain it and they're holding back.
Doesn't help that the episode premises they came up with were bland as fuck most of the time. Who the hell wants to see nonsense like What If Happy Hogan was the focus of an entire episode, what if Marvel Zombies had forced comedy every two seconds so the toddlers don't get scared, what if Captain Carter was the center piece of the universe or if Thor was an even bigger manchild. That's just boring and uncreative.
It was fun the first time, they don’t need to keep doing it. Or they should have left bread crumbs for it to happen once at the veeeeeery end. And make a whole season of “What If all stories converged just once” and we got like 8 eps of them fighting hyper dangerous and powerful Ultron or Thanos or a new big bad.
I enjoyed the s1 finale but i would have preferred not having it to having it.
And whats worse is that s2 is basically 1/3rds the "Captain Carter Show"
Yeah S2 was cool but lost its identity I think. Hopefully they can bring it back for S3 and we can get an actual creative anthology like we sort of got with S1
Just finished reading Marvel Zombies. I thought it would be cool to see a group of zombies, talk to each other, and then traverse thru universes for more food. Then having those universes defend themselves against the plague.
This was my biggest complaint as well.
I think an added representation was a great selling point, but unfortunately, there is no previous familiarity to watch "what changed" in this universe. That's half the fun of the What If episodes. I think providing the First Nations representation should have been in a different medium than the What If story. Outside of that, the character had a strong storyline and was an intriguing story
Yeah it’s a perfectly serviceable standalone story, it’s just not a What If. Replace the Tesseract with literally anything else and it slots in fine to a regular comic book.
Yes, but then it wouldn't have had the built-in Marvel audience. It wouldn't surprise me if this was pitched as a stand-alone thing and tacked onto What If later.
The Ragnarok prophecy happens ealier than Odin was expecting.
Odin tries to tap into the power of the Tesseract to fight Surtur.
Surtur hit the Tesseract while Odin is doing the power-up causing a massive explosion that fractures the Tesseract & send it across Time & Space to Earth landing in a lake in pre-colonial America.
Because of the fractured Tesseract, anyone who enters the lake gets teleported to another realm called "Sky World" where you gain superpowers and become immortal.
Kahhori falls into the lake while being chased/hunted by invading Spanish conquistadors.
Determined to save her people from the conquistadors, Kahhori trains with the new powers before finding a way back from "Sky World" (the other side of the portal was out of reach) to help her people.
I feel like that was most of the show.
I thought it was going to be about events we’ve seen play out differently due to a single choice or single switching of character.
Although I didn’t like the episode the one where killnonger saves iron man is what the show should be about
Instead this show is ‘what if [completely new universe]
I wasn't that big on the first season, but felt like the 2nd season didn't really have any "what ifs" or the what if question was cast aside immediately to tell whatever story they felt like.
This episode being an offender, and of course that the show felt less like an anthology and more "what if we just made a Captain Carter TV show"
It would be fine, if they didn't just ignore the central premise.
What they really wanted to do was make captain Carter the big star of marvel going forward, I have no evidence of this, but everything in my soul tells me that they talked about it behind closed doors and this was another way to ease that transition.
If they wanted to make an animated show with her then sure. I would give it a try, it's not an overly interesting take on captain america but it's watchable enough.
Yeah, there are three degrees of "What If"
1. "What if, everything happened exactly like in the MCU/616, *but* we made one little change? What would happen as a result?"
2. "What if we just told a story that didn't happen in the MCU, using MCU characters, but it's way too different to have just resulted from a little change here or there?" And then
3. "What if we just took a random script we had lying around that has nothing to do with Marvel, and, I don't know, threw an Infinity Stone or Green Lantern ring or something into it instead of the. . . what do you have here, 'source Lake?' never mind it's the Reality Stone or something now."
That's a stupid technicality. Of course it's a what if, because any story is a what if. I watch the show to see them taking a Marvel story and changing some aspects of it.
It's soulless because the mandates of the character are too surface level. Nothing more, nothing less. You can't get immersed when you can see the "fellow kids" studio notes.
Season 2 felt soulless because it was trying to stick to a formula that was in Season 1 but not doing anything to improve it or evolve it.
It would be like Secret Wars setting up the final battle to be the same as the finale in End Game, because it did well before therefore this is how it must be done from now on. But with more of the forced moments like the girl power part.
“There are more realities than a grain of sand. In this fractured timeline obligated critics ask the question of “what if” this clearly “what if” scenario was not a “what if” scenario.” - Uatu
I mean yea. That’s what happens when you only have 30 minutes to introduce a new character and story
The what if characters are literally created to pop out of nowhere for half a hour. That’s the point of the show. And she wasn’t even OP in her episode, she was knocked out in her first and only fight by a 15th century cannonball and saved by an army of people with the same powers as her. They just made her OP in that wacky finale
Gotta disagree there, the point of the "What if" is to take the characters we know and give them a new spin, like Peggy Carter getting the serum or Ultron having the infinity gauntlet. The fact that she is an OC goes against that core concept, which is why some people dislike the character.
Yeah S01 was so much better. I liked Kahori though, that was one of the better episodes of S02 imo (my fav was the first one with Nebula in a detective role)
No way, What if...? works best as an anthology series. It should be the Twilight Zone or Outer Limits of the MCU. Instead we got a single storyline with ridiculous power creep. My eyes always glaze over in the final episodes of this or Loki when there are immense displays of power that go on for way too long.
Give us one-shot alternate universe stories that highlight political/social/moral issues that allow us to appreciate the mainline Marvel universe and how 'our' heroes would react in similar situations.
I agree that most of them and more of them should be standalones, but it’s a separate issue for me. The writing felt a lot better to me in season 2. Both the dialogue and the plot took a huge jump. In the first season there were several episodes I thought were duds, but this season I didn’t feel that at all.
Different strokes for different folks I guess.
Season 1 had its ups and down but I also personally agree that, as a whole, it was better than season 2. The episode with Dr strange is IMO the best episode of all of What if, it had awesome action, great story and actual emotion. The finale of S1 was amazing and really delved into the cosmic side of the MCU, it also made Ultron a badass lol. You also had Marvel Zombies and such.
S2, I don’t really find myself thinking about it much. It also (argubly but I think many agree) ruined the Dr Strange from S1 by removing the depth of his character. You can argue it was natural for him because he was always willing to do insane things to get what he wanted, but…idk I just didn’t like the execution.
The focus on Captain Carter and Kahhori was also not what I really wanted, but it could have been fine if there was a better story being told
I thought she was a cool character with an interesting story that I wish was a 90 minute film. Her episode was probably my favorite from the season tbh.
I thought they'd at least come out with a comic of her, I do think she was too op too quickly. But I really did love her character and the first episode she was in
I really liked her as a character and the story she told. It was a really fun episode and had a lot of creativity. However considering it was a What If episode that contained very little Marvel elements, I get the distaste and she did have a strangely massive presence on the rest of the season (which again, she was cool so I didn't mind, but I completely get why people weren't happy since she's not really an established Marvel character.)
I think season 2 was great because of the overarching story. I thought the characters we met in season 1 were interesting enough that I want to know more about the rest of their story, and I think this season did it well. HOWEVER, the whole point of the What If comic series was to create a one off story that changes a key element of the normal story, with a massive impact. If you were really expecting and really wanted that over a overarching story, I again get why this season might not have been for you.
I really don't think the actual quality of the episodes went down, BUT what many people wanted wasn't as present in this second season. Which Kahhori is a good example of.
Sure, she could live, but that would mean she failed to do anything of note to stop America from being colonized. They could trap her in ice like Cap, but that feels repetitive. She just doesn't make sense in a modern world similar to the real world.
Could be that she DID manage to stop colonization but some bullshit happened that made her timeline extant/about to be destroyed, so she had to travel to the main timeline, undoing all of her work in her own
it is an alternate timeline. perhaps she and her people did resolve whatever European settlement of the eastern coast. If then they could unite the other tribes under a banner, they could prevent the spanish coming from Florida/south america. Would be an interesting continuation. Naturally not 616.
Also they don't age in whatever that spacial world was. If she can both enter and exit it whenever, she could stay alive for as long as the story demands.
Wasn't the point of the end of the episode that they gave up their timeless utopia to go save their people. It would undermine the story to say they can just go back whenever they like.
What if we made a series that feels like the writers forgot the premise half the time and mostly just wanted to make their own avengers series but were only allowed to use alternate versions of the comic characters
I would like to see more heroes with less light-blasty-flashflash powers... that said, I am good with Kohhori joining the Marvel universe of characters. I want to see an alternative universe comic based on this alternative earth wherein European colonialism was basically thrown back into the ocean by an empowered indigenous population.
It would probably do better if the animation wasn't such ass. Especially all the light beam battles. We get it in CGI it's cheap and easy to do, but an animated show?
She was a fun character, though a bit weird as an inclusion in What If. With the exception of that episode, the show was kind of asking “what if we took the MCU and reshuffled the deck.” Familiar characters, but in unfamiliar situations. With this episode, *nothing* after the title card was familiar. The only thing that was in the MCU before was the tesseract, but it’s not in its familiar cube form, and it’s not doing something we’ve seen it do before - so it may as well have been something else entirely.
I thought season 2 as a whole was bland and flavorless compared to season 1. The Nebula episode was great. Too many other episodes were variants of "make main story character fight a generic army of mooks". Kahhori would have made for a more interesting story if she'd been directly involved in the "What if" of another character. As it stands, her episode felt like it had little to do w/ the MCU.
Someone had an idea that couldn’t get greenlit so they forced it into What If. So we lost an episode and character was forced in the finale to do the creatively bankrupt thing of repeat the same overall plot from last season while being able to divert criticism for that by framing it as incel hatred for the character being X,y,z
I really liked Kahoori but would prefer they don't tie her to existing narratives. If they wanted to bring her into mainline continuity that would be rad. I am all for MCU creating its own characters. I would love to see her go head to head with Kushala at some point.
I like her as a new character and I am interested to see how she fits into future pieces but I also wish WHAT IF was actual WHAT IFs with the characters we know. What happened to Gamora and Stark on Ragnarok planet?
I thought she was alright in s1. She had cool powers, and that spirit realm place was interesting. I thought her origin was a little cliché and I thought she was going to go down a more villainous route given her ending. But in season 2, I hated her. First ruining Strange to give her a villain, referring to herself as a righteous hero and making her dispatch killmonger with ease.
fun character and a great use of what if. should’ve just stayed in her own episode though and she feels a little too op to ever become a mainstay imo wish they’d made her a little weaker so we had something to build too over time
I thought she was fucking cool tbh, I kinda want her in the mainline.
she's the closest thing we got to a speedster since we lost QS, and generally, visually is really cool to look at.
she was definitely one of the most interesting of the what if characters for me out of season 2
(also she reminded me of sandman from steel ball run so that def influenced my opinion lol)
I thought that storywise it was interesting, although not really a "What If," since it had f'all to do with Marvel characters and could have just been a generic sci-fi story. Also, her powers are pretty generic and random, nothing particularly unique or interesting.
She is the avatar of the space stone. Loki is the avatar of the time stone and Wanda is the avatar of the reality stone..... remember what does Uatu say in the opening credits of the show. "Time, Space, Reality.....all leading to question What If".
I really like how they have reoccurring characters in What If and tie it all together (with some symmetry to the rest of the MCU).
I hope she comes to live action, perhaps Secret Wars.
Super lame and the opposite of what ifs central draw: imagine an event from the MCU you know, except something different happens. Since she was invented for this show, no one could possibly appreciate the "what if" scenario. It was another attempt to shoehorn a Mary Sue into a Disney property. I honestly don't get it at this point, there are tons of well written female led stories that Disney already owns, why not use one of them??
Valkerie, Ms Marvel, Sylvie, Jane, or literally any X-Men character would have been amazing. With the Fox purchase, why not a riff on the Phoneix movies or X23 from Logan? How about an episode focused on Storm or another well known xmen character interacting in a well known MCU event?? There is so much meat to cut here, why waste the screen time after their huge IP purchases?
Though, ultimately, the biggest problem with Kahhori was that she was boring and unoriginal in a universe that is more boring and unoriginal.
I loooved this episode. The representation to preclinical indigenous Americans was so gratifying to me. Having this chunk of Lore join the mcu was cool imo
She is one of my favorite characters to play in Marvel Future Fight. She is so naturally strong, and if you can decrease her cool down level you'd be surprised how many opponents she would clear in timeline battle.
Hey I get it, it's not for everybody. Once I got dark Phoenix, though, it was hard for me to leave because the game became much more manageable after that.
Yeah, the addictive loop is crazy. I played since around launch, but the more they kept adding more and more things to do every day, it became a full time job.
With the auto play feature a lot of that is cut in half. Once you get your top three teams together you can basically blow through the entire game. But if you have a life outside of work and responsibilities that you have to give your full attention to it's not really a fun game because, absolutely, it is time consuming.
Interesting idea for a character, but it needed to be longer and not a What If…? Episode. The pacing was rushed and by the time of the finale she was too op
I kinda like the concept but I didn't like her attitude, "oh you guy never reached the top of the sky because you aren't willing hard enough!" was annoying
I really wanted this show to be random as fuk with the episodes. Like, Whai if Rocket was a robot? What if Iron Man was Rhodey? What if Ego ruled the galaxy? What if Black Panther was not African? Stuff like that
Not a fan of how much of a Mary Sue she was. Within minutes of getting her powers she already becomes more proficient with them than all those other people with those powers who have had them for possibly hundreds of years
Not a fan of how much of a Mary Sue she was. Within minutes of getting her powers she already becomes more proficient with them than all those other people with those powers who have had them for possibly hundreds of years
Cool story and powers. Queen being dumb as hell was hilarious. She saw multiple people fucking *teleport* into her throne room, ordered her guards to attack them with **sticks.** One of a kind dumbass, amazing.
Honestly it might just be me but I liked Kahhori better than how Echo represented in her own TV show? Seeing as how they went with the heritage angle with her, I feel like Kahhori was more interesting just on a first impression - her powers and stuff felt more natural. I'm not at all familiar with the comics version of Echo though, I'm just going off how she was depicted in her own show (thought she was pretty neat in Hawkeye), so take what I say with a grain of salt lol
Interesting to have new characters but in my opinion what if should be about ‘what if character did something differently in a significant event’ not ‘what if this character that never existed existed?’
I've I had a nickel for everytime Marvel studios has distorted the history of my country, Spain, in order to make some sort of political statement in their movies or shows, I'd have three nickels, which isn't a lot, but it's weird that it happened thrice, right?
I think she was fine, wouldn’t mind seeing more of her in other projects. Tbh low key wish we saw an incursion in her universe to justify her reality hopping
I know a lot of people hate on S2 but it was honestly pretty good, I liked the episodes and I only really see people complain about Captain Carter getting main focus which I honestly don’t mind to be honest. The fight with her and Kahori teaming up against Strange Supreme was sick asf.
>Write to people who’ll like it
Let me put it like this: if a bunch of Big Bang Theory fans decided they liked It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia, and the writers started writing to cater to THEM, the show would get worse.
Is there something wrong with you enjoying it? No. Do I want them to start writing like shit because it appeals to you? Also no.
But that’s your opinion on them writing like shit, I’m not the only person who enjoys a cool ass fight. I swear you people think the world revolves around you so much it’s funny. Yea I know the MAIN point of writing isn’t to appeal to anyone, but if I am enjoying their story that means they’re doing their job. This is why I stay away from Marvel fans on reddit they can’t enjoy shit but stay complaining no matter what it is.
>This is why I stay away from Marvel fans on reddit they can’t enjoy shit but stay complaining no matter what it is.
What If: Season 2 is one of the very view pieces of MCU content that I criticize. I actually enjoy pretty much everything they put out. I just disagree with you about this one show.
>I swear you people think the world revolves around you so much it’s funny
I think the world revolves around me because I didn't like a show that you did? Because my opinion was that it was bad?
I loved the character 💯 and felt she was a much needed addition to the MCU family.
Like many said: it's not really the What If...? formula per se. She was created because The tesseract fell to Earth during her time. Okay, cool. That's not really a What If kinda deal. You've created a new hero (which is fine) but where's the What If part?
Meh I really thought they were going to do something interesting at the end or her ep when her people go and basically take over the world and it would’ve been a thing where they’re basically becoming the people that conquered them slowly being corrupted by the power they’ve gained but they didn’t do that so whatever
Was fun in the first episode she appeared in. Felt a little weird when she popped up again but tbh I’m just not a fan of how they’ve tried to make it so all the episodes tie together at the end of each season; a big draw for What If is getting a new story each time.
Tying everything together was better in the first season, especially because I didn't see it coming. Felt more forced and Strange Supreme wasn't as interesting as the first season either. Kahoori was a cool probably character. I liked her more than some of the other ones.
Dude I'm so tired of Dr. Strange shenanigans
>a big draw for What If is getting a new story each time. Continuity is what *What If...?* is supposed to avoid. I don't think the comic even had multiple issue arcs at first, just one-and-dones I liked Kahori OK
The comic would very occasionally have multi-issue arcs. Later it would occasionally be released as mini-series with related themes (such as five issues each of “What is X Character became Venom”). What this cartoon really wants to do, flirts with doing, has not committed to, is being Exiles, wherein multiple characters from different universes are teamed up to journey to other different universes and correct things.
> What this cartoon really wants to do, flirts with doing, has not committed to, is being Exiles New to me, TIL! I def see what you're saying in that https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exiles_(Marvel_Comics)
The first 40ish issues are spectacular. They should be on Marvel Unlimited if you have it.
+1 for this recommendation. Honestly Exiles is one of those comics that I knew nothing about before I started reading comics and quickly became one of my favorites.
Loved exiles because I got Blink back
Blink’s sacrifice in Phalanx Covenant was the first emotional gut punch I experienced reading comics. I was 11 at the time, having started reading comics because of X-Men TAS. I didn’t start reading older comics until later, and I was in love with those newer early-90s characters.
She was just too pure for this world. Then AoA made her a major character and exiles too
I love me some exiles. Read all of the first run, I need to read the rest. I’d love an exiles tv show
Honestly 2nd season felt more tired compared to First one and outside of a few episode, which were great, overall felt average that you Watch once, have fun, and wont look at it again nor remember it
That's how I felt about it. It wasn't bad, it just felt like a waste of the premise of What If. I get why they're doing it, I just don't agree with the path they chose. You have a vehicle where you can do basically any crazy thing you want without having to explain it and they're holding back.
Yes, they waste so much potential there. And the storylines…Hela was really good imo. It was interesting but aside that i cant recall any episode tbh
Doesn't help that the episode premises they came up with were bland as fuck most of the time. Who the hell wants to see nonsense like What If Happy Hogan was the focus of an entire episode, what if Marvel Zombies had forced comedy every two seconds so the toddlers don't get scared, what if Captain Carter was the center piece of the universe or if Thor was an even bigger manchild. That's just boring and uncreative.
I'm curious what would be a few ideas you wished were explored in the show instead?
I would rather they focused on individual stories, Kinda Black Mirror Like.
Thats called an anthology which is what What if..? Claims to be but fails considering the show connects it all in the end.
It was fun the first time, they don’t need to keep doing it. Or they should have left bread crumbs for it to happen once at the veeeeeery end. And make a whole season of “What If all stories converged just once” and we got like 8 eps of them fighting hyper dangerous and powerful Ultron or Thanos or a new big bad.
I enjoyed the s1 finale but i would have preferred not having it to having it. And whats worse is that s2 is basically 1/3rds the "Captain Carter Show"
Yeah S2 was cool but lost its identity I think. Hopefully they can bring it back for S3 and we can get an actual creative anthology like we sort of got with S1
Just finished reading Marvel Zombies. I thought it would be cool to see a group of zombies, talk to each other, and then traverse thru universes for more food. Then having those universes defend themselves against the plague.
*What If…* we created a new character and pretended it was a What If story?
That was it. For me, I was so fuckin confused at this episode.
This was my biggest complaint as well. I think an added representation was a great selling point, but unfortunately, there is no previous familiarity to watch "what changed" in this universe. That's half the fun of the What If episodes. I think providing the First Nations representation should have been in a different medium than the What If story. Outside of that, the character had a strong storyline and was an intriguing story
Yeah it’s a perfectly serviceable standalone story, it’s just not a What If. Replace the Tesseract with literally anything else and it slots in fine to a regular comic book.
Yes, but then it wouldn't have had the built-in Marvel audience. It wouldn't surprise me if this was pitched as a stand-alone thing and tacked onto What If later.
Was the what if part that she got the tesseract instead of Thanos/Loki? I haven't watched in a while
Nah it was “What if the tesseract landed in Native America” or something like that
The Ragnarok prophecy happens ealier than Odin was expecting. Odin tries to tap into the power of the Tesseract to fight Surtur. Surtur hit the Tesseract while Odin is doing the power-up causing a massive explosion that fractures the Tesseract & send it across Time & Space to Earth landing in a lake in pre-colonial America. Because of the fractured Tesseract, anyone who enters the lake gets teleported to another realm called "Sky World" where you gain superpowers and become immortal. Kahhori falls into the lake while being chased/hunted by invading Spanish conquistadors. Determined to save her people from the conquistadors, Kahhori trains with the new powers before finding a way back from "Sky World" (the other side of the portal was out of reach) to help her people.
***"what if I just make some shit up"*** LMAO
I feel like that was most of the show. I thought it was going to be about events we’ve seen play out differently due to a single choice or single switching of character. Although I didn’t like the episode the one where killnonger saves iron man is what the show should be about Instead this show is ‘what if [completely new universe]
Me and my friends hated this episode lol it was so boring and extra for no reason
I'm telling my kids that is the Avatar: Master of the Elements
I don't hate her. I mostly forget that she exist though.
Kind of weird for What If...? Considering it isn't really a "what if"
I wasn't that big on the first season, but felt like the 2nd season didn't really have any "what ifs" or the what if question was cast aside immediately to tell whatever story they felt like. This episode being an offender, and of course that the show felt less like an anthology and more "what if we just made a Captain Carter TV show" It would be fine, if they didn't just ignore the central premise.
What they really wanted to do was make captain Carter the big star of marvel going forward, I have no evidence of this, but everything in my soul tells me that they talked about it behind closed doors and this was another way to ease that transition. If they wanted to make an animated show with her then sure. I would give it a try, it's not an overly interesting take on captain america but it's watchable enough.
Yeah, there are three degrees of "What If" 1. "What if, everything happened exactly like in the MCU/616, *but* we made one little change? What would happen as a result?" 2. "What if we just told a story that didn't happen in the MCU, using MCU characters, but it's way too different to have just resulted from a little change here or there?" And then 3. "What if we just took a random script we had lying around that has nothing to do with Marvel, and, I don't know, threw an Infinity Stone or Green Lantern ring or something into it instead of the. . . what do you have here, 'source Lake?' never mind it's the Reality Stone or something now."
I mean, technically anything and everything in fictional comics is a “what if.”
It kinda is though, just a really early what if
That's a stupid technicality. Of course it's a what if, because any story is a what if. I watch the show to see them taking a Marvel story and changing some aspects of it.
What If….Disney stopped forcing new characters and using flimsy excuses to justify them all
She was in two episodes of an animated show meant to experiment with new ideas within the multiverse, how is that forced?
Also the guy that screams to make new characters and stop changing existing ones.
It's soulless because the mandates of the character are too surface level. Nothing more, nothing less. You can't get immersed when you can see the "fellow kids" studio notes. Season 2 felt soulless because it was trying to stick to a formula that was in Season 1 but not doing anything to improve it or evolve it. It would be like Secret Wars setting up the final battle to be the same as the finale in End Game, because it did well before therefore this is how it must be done from now on. But with more of the forced moments like the girl power part.
“There are more realities than a grain of sand. In this fractured timeline obligated critics ask the question of “what if” this clearly “what if” scenario was not a “what if” scenario.” - Uatu
Totally agree, wasn’t a fan at all
What if?… Disney created an original character instead of race-swapping? You guessed it! White guys online would still bitch.
It is though.... What If the writers created an OC and inserted them into the MCU?
She just popped out of nowhere and became op.
I mean yea. That’s what happens when you only have 30 minutes to introduce a new character and story The what if characters are literally created to pop out of nowhere for half a hour. That’s the point of the show. And she wasn’t even OP in her episode, she was knocked out in her first and only fight by a 15th century cannonball and saved by an army of people with the same powers as her. They just made her OP in that wacky finale
Gotta disagree there, the point of the "What if" is to take the characters we know and give them a new spin, like Peggy Carter getting the serum or Ultron having the infinity gauntlet. The fact that she is an OC goes against that core concept, which is why some people dislike the character.
Whole season was pretty lame compared to season 1.
There was way too much focus on Captain Carter.
I actually like Captain Carter.... though I think she should assume the moniker of Captain Britain.
Union Jack would be a better choice. Actual Captain Britain isn't a super-soldier as many people think of him to be.
He's magic and shit, right? Tied to Avalon?
Yep.
Yeah, though I never was a big of it
Yeah, she is. Betsy is the new Captain Britain, since Kwannon took the Psylocke moniker.
The issue is that Captain Britain is already an established character/s which bears no relation to captain carter
Yeah S01 was so much better. I liked Kahori though, that was one of the better episodes of S02 imo (my fav was the first one with Nebula in a detective role)
I’m kinda shocked to read this. I thought it was markedly better than season 1.
No way, What if...? works best as an anthology series. It should be the Twilight Zone or Outer Limits of the MCU. Instead we got a single storyline with ridiculous power creep. My eyes always glaze over in the final episodes of this or Loki when there are immense displays of power that go on for way too long. Give us one-shot alternate universe stories that highlight political/social/moral issues that allow us to appreciate the mainline Marvel universe and how 'our' heroes would react in similar situations.
I agree that most of them and more of them should be standalones, but it’s a separate issue for me. The writing felt a lot better to me in season 2. Both the dialogue and the plot took a huge jump. In the first season there were several episodes I thought were duds, but this season I didn’t feel that at all. Different strokes for different folks I guess.
Season 1 had its ups and down but I also personally agree that, as a whole, it was better than season 2. The episode with Dr strange is IMO the best episode of all of What if, it had awesome action, great story and actual emotion. The finale of S1 was amazing and really delved into the cosmic side of the MCU, it also made Ultron a badass lol. You also had Marvel Zombies and such. S2, I don’t really find myself thinking about it much. It also (argubly but I think many agree) ruined the Dr Strange from S1 by removing the depth of his character. You can argue it was natural for him because he was always willing to do insane things to get what he wanted, but…idk I just didn’t like the execution. The focus on Captain Carter and Kahhori was also not what I really wanted, but it could have been fine if there was a better story being told
S2 better than S1 for me
I thought she was a cool character with an interesting story that I wish was a 90 minute film. Her episode was probably my favorite from the season tbh.
Finally someone who also enjoyed the character and episode. I also want a full length movie or dedicated series. Dope story!
I thought they'd at least come out with a comic of her, I do think she was too op too quickly. But I really did love her character and the first episode she was in
Agreed, the power scale was bonkers, but they decided to tell the whole story in the time of an episode. The Kahhori story just needs more screen time
Its like..Strange didnt learn anything from his mistake..he was supposed to learn and grow from it!
That was season 1. This was season 2, where the point was for Peggy to hit things.
I really liked her as a character and the story she told. It was a really fun episode and had a lot of creativity. However considering it was a What If episode that contained very little Marvel elements, I get the distaste and she did have a strangely massive presence on the rest of the season (which again, she was cool so I didn't mind, but I completely get why people weren't happy since she's not really an established Marvel character.) I think season 2 was great because of the overarching story. I thought the characters we met in season 1 were interesting enough that I want to know more about the rest of their story, and I think this season did it well. HOWEVER, the whole point of the What If comic series was to create a one off story that changes a key element of the normal story, with a massive impact. If you were really expecting and really wanted that over a overarching story, I again get why this season might not have been for you. I really don't think the actual quality of the episodes went down, BUT what many people wanted wasn't as present in this second season. Which Kahhori is a good example of.
She's a fine character but a rather shit Marvel character. She doesn't really fit in any established universe besides 1602.
Unless she got immortality from the stone, then she can just wait
Sure, she could live, but that would mean she failed to do anything of note to stop America from being colonized. They could trap her in ice like Cap, but that feels repetitive. She just doesn't make sense in a modern world similar to the real world.
Could be that she DID manage to stop colonization but some bullshit happened that made her timeline extant/about to be destroyed, so she had to travel to the main timeline, undoing all of her work in her own
That would just go against the hope her character was meant to embody. You'd be better served by creating a new character in 616 with native heritage.
¯\\\_(ツ)\_/¯ Maybe she could do the hope thing in the present instead?
it is an alternate timeline. perhaps she and her people did resolve whatever European settlement of the eastern coast. If then they could unite the other tribes under a banner, they could prevent the spanish coming from Florida/south america. Would be an interesting continuation. Naturally not 616. Also they don't age in whatever that spacial world was. If she can both enter and exit it whenever, she could stay alive for as long as the story demands.
Wasn't the point of the end of the episode that they gave up their timeless utopia to go save their people. It would undermine the story to say they can just go back whenever they like.
You don’t like Marvel stories set in the past? Feel like these are kinda common
They aren't. The vast majority are set in contemporary times.
Ehhhhhhhhhh
What if we made a series that feels like the writers forgot the premise half the time and mostly just wanted to make their own avengers series but were only allowed to use alternate versions of the comic characters
I would like to see more heroes with less light-blasty-flashflash powers... that said, I am good with Kohhori joining the Marvel universe of characters. I want to see an alternative universe comic based on this alternative earth wherein European colonialism was basically thrown back into the ocean by an empowered indigenous population.
Season 2 in general was a letdown compared to 1 and her role in the pretty meh ending hasn't enamored me to her
The whole series does nothing for me.
It would probably do better if the animation wasn't such ass. Especially all the light beam battles. We get it in CGI it's cheap and easy to do, but an animated show?
She was a fun character, though a bit weird as an inclusion in What If. With the exception of that episode, the show was kind of asking “what if we took the MCU and reshuffled the deck.” Familiar characters, but in unfamiliar situations. With this episode, *nothing* after the title card was familiar. The only thing that was in the MCU before was the tesseract, but it’s not in its familiar cube form, and it’s not doing something we’ve seen it do before - so it may as well have been something else entirely.
I thought season 2 as a whole was bland and flavorless compared to season 1. The Nebula episode was great. Too many other episodes were variants of "make main story character fight a generic army of mooks". Kahhori would have made for a more interesting story if she'd been directly involved in the "What if" of another character. As it stands, her episode felt like it had little to do w/ the MCU.
She sucks
All *What If...?* episodes are kinda the same to me. It was alright.
Someone had an idea that couldn’t get greenlit so they forced it into What If. So we lost an episode and character was forced in the finale to do the creatively bankrupt thing of repeat the same overall plot from last season while being able to divert criticism for that by framing it as incel hatred for the character being X,y,z
I didn't like how the entire episode wasn't in English because I end up focusing on the captions and not actually understanding what's going on
That’s most foreign films and not a lot of people like them like that for this reason
She is okay for an episode or 2 but she wouldn't last in the comics.
Overrated
I want to see more of her.
I really liked Kahoori but would prefer they don't tie her to existing narratives. If they wanted to bring her into mainline continuity that would be rad. I am all for MCU creating its own characters. I would love to see her go head to head with Kushala at some point.
I like her as a new character and I am interested to see how she fits into future pieces but I also wish WHAT IF was actual WHAT IFs with the characters we know. What happened to Gamora and Stark on Ragnarok planet?
Lame
Not terrible, but kinda a Mary Sue.
I thought she was alright in s1. She had cool powers, and that spirit realm place was interesting. I thought her origin was a little cliché and I thought she was going to go down a more villainous route given her ending. But in season 2, I hated her. First ruining Strange to give her a villain, referring to herself as a righteous hero and making her dispatch killmonger with ease.
fun character and a great use of what if. should’ve just stayed in her own episode though and she feels a little too op to ever become a mainstay imo wish they’d made her a little weaker so we had something to build too over time
I thought she was fucking cool tbh, I kinda want her in the mainline. she's the closest thing we got to a speedster since we lost QS, and generally, visually is really cool to look at. she was definitely one of the most interesting of the what if characters for me out of season 2 (also she reminded me of sandman from steel ball run so that def influenced my opinion lol)
>she's the closest thing we got to a speedster since we lost QS The main-universe has Makkari
*^(I completely forgot about the eternals ngl)*
Too overpowered
She was badass.
I thought that storywise it was interesting, although not really a "What If," since it had f'all to do with Marvel characters and could have just been a generic sci-fi story. Also, her powers are pretty generic and random, nothing particularly unique or interesting.
She is the avatar of the space stone. Loki is the avatar of the time stone and Wanda is the avatar of the reality stone..... remember what does Uatu say in the opening credits of the show. "Time, Space, Reality.....all leading to question What If".
Never realized that! That is a really cool detail!
I liked her. She was fun.
I really like how they have reoccurring characters in What If and tie it all together (with some symmetry to the rest of the MCU). I hope she comes to live action, perhaps Secret Wars.
Super lame and the opposite of what ifs central draw: imagine an event from the MCU you know, except something different happens. Since she was invented for this show, no one could possibly appreciate the "what if" scenario. It was another attempt to shoehorn a Mary Sue into a Disney property. I honestly don't get it at this point, there are tons of well written female led stories that Disney already owns, why not use one of them?? Valkerie, Ms Marvel, Sylvie, Jane, or literally any X-Men character would have been amazing. With the Fox purchase, why not a riff on the Phoneix movies or X23 from Logan? How about an episode focused on Storm or another well known xmen character interacting in a well known MCU event?? There is so much meat to cut here, why waste the screen time after their huge IP purchases? Though, ultimately, the biggest problem with Kahhori was that she was boring and unoriginal in a universe that is more boring and unoriginal.
I like that they created a new character with new lore.
We don't need new characters, there are already plenty to work with that haven't gotten enough play yet.
Thank you for your opinion, I like when they try to add new and interesting characters to the roster.
Bad.
She's a cool character that I want to see more of
Whole season 2 was a disappointment for me
She’s neat. I hope they use her more in and out of the MCU, because she definitely has potential
I really liked her ! I hope we see her again.
I loooved this episode. The representation to preclinical indigenous Americans was so gratifying to me. Having this chunk of Lore join the mcu was cool imo
Just seems like they wanted to add someone that supported the new version of Echo.
Forgettable (I actually did forget her until this post)
The new Avatar? Water, Earth, Fire, Air
That would have been better, sure.
This was fun but we got a long rehash of all this in the Echo series.
She is one of my favorite characters to play in Marvel Future Fight. She is so naturally strong, and if you can decrease her cool down level you'd be surprised how many opponents she would clear in timeline battle.
I'm so glad I dropped out of MFF around the time when Love and Thunder came out.
Hey I get it, it's not for everybody. Once I got dark Phoenix, though, it was hard for me to leave because the game became much more manageable after that.
Yeah, the addictive loop is crazy. I played since around launch, but the more they kept adding more and more things to do every day, it became a full time job.
With the auto play feature a lot of that is cut in half. Once you get your top three teams together you can basically blow through the entire game. But if you have a life outside of work and responsibilities that you have to give your full attention to it's not really a fun game because, absolutely, it is time consuming.
Interesting idea for a character, but it needed to be longer and not a What If…? Episode. The pacing was rushed and by the time of the finale she was too op
I kept expecting a solid connection to Echo.
I want to see Amber Midthunder to play her in live action.
She's cool!
IMO a breath of fresh air for the show and Marvel.
I kinda like the concept but I didn't like her attitude, "oh you guy never reached the top of the sky because you aren't willing hard enough!" was annoying
I really wanted this show to be random as fuk with the episodes. Like, Whai if Rocket was a robot? What if Iron Man was Rhodey? What if Ego ruled the galaxy? What if Black Panther was not African? Stuff like that
Not a fan of how much of a Mary Sue she was. Within minutes of getting her powers she already becomes more proficient with them than all those other people with those powers who have had them for possibly hundreds of years
Not a fan of how much of a Mary Sue she was. Within minutes of getting her powers she already becomes more proficient with them than all those other people with those powers who have had them for possibly hundreds of years
X
Didn't like...the same boring storyline that is being used across stories.
Cool story and powers. Queen being dumb as hell was hilarious. She saw multiple people fucking *teleport* into her throne room, ordered her guards to attack them with **sticks.** One of a kind dumbass, amazing.
Honestly it might just be me but I liked Kahhori better than how Echo represented in her own TV show? Seeing as how they went with the heritage angle with her, I feel like Kahhori was more interesting just on a first impression - her powers and stuff felt more natural. I'm not at all familiar with the comics version of Echo though, I'm just going off how she was depicted in her own show (thought she was pretty neat in Hawkeye), so take what I say with a grain of salt lol
Interesting to have new characters but in my opinion what if should be about ‘what if character did something differently in a significant event’ not ‘what if this character that never existed existed?’
Eh
Completely and utterly based, will never be replicated again.
Umm let's move to the next question
I've I had a nickel for everytime Marvel studios has distorted the history of my country, Spain, in order to make some sort of political statement in their movies or shows, I'd have three nickels, which isn't a lot, but it's weird that it happened thrice, right?
I really like her :)
She was kinda meh
I like her episode and Kahhori seems like a pretty interesting character. I just wished What If season 2 didn’t focus on Captain carter so much.
i think she's really cool
Worthless character
I think she was fine, wouldn’t mind seeing more of her in other projects. Tbh low key wish we saw an incursion in her universe to justify her reality hopping
Would love to see her make the jump to live action.
I know a lot of people hate on S2 but it was honestly pretty good, I liked the episodes and I only really see people complain about Captain Carter getting main focus which I honestly don’t mind to be honest. The fight with her and Kahori teaming up against Strange Supreme was sick asf.
>The fight with her and Kahori teaming up against Strange Supreme was sick asf. Ugh, this is who they're writing for isn't it?
I mean yea, that’s the whole point of making stories. Write to people who’ll like it, is there something wrong with me enjoying it?
>Write to people who’ll like it Let me put it like this: if a bunch of Big Bang Theory fans decided they liked It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia, and the writers started writing to cater to THEM, the show would get worse. Is there something wrong with you enjoying it? No. Do I want them to start writing like shit because it appeals to you? Also no.
But that’s your opinion on them writing like shit, I’m not the only person who enjoys a cool ass fight. I swear you people think the world revolves around you so much it’s funny. Yea I know the MAIN point of writing isn’t to appeal to anyone, but if I am enjoying their story that means they’re doing their job. This is why I stay away from Marvel fans on reddit they can’t enjoy shit but stay complaining no matter what it is.
>This is why I stay away from Marvel fans on reddit they can’t enjoy shit but stay complaining no matter what it is. What If: Season 2 is one of the very view pieces of MCU content that I criticize. I actually enjoy pretty much everything they put out. I just disagree with you about this one show. >I swear you people think the world revolves around you so much it’s funny I think the world revolves around me because I didn't like a show that you did? Because my opinion was that it was bad?
She's a cool character with a gun origin and world building she just needs her own stuff not in what if
Meh 🫤
Her character was sick. Would love to see more
Kahhori is so cool! I love her character development.
I loved the character 💯 and felt she was a much needed addition to the MCU family. Like many said: it's not really the What If...? formula per se. She was created because The tesseract fell to Earth during her time. Okay, cool. That's not really a What If kinda deal. You've created a new hero (which is fine) but where's the What If part?
Pretty cool, I hope they dive into Native American lore. Echo was pretty fun 🤘
Based individual
Who?
It was TOO MUCH. Not a fan of
Meh I really thought they were going to do something interesting at the end or her ep when her people go and basically take over the world and it would’ve been a thing where they’re basically becoming the people that conquered them slowly being corrupted by the power they’ve gained but they didn’t do that so whatever
There was a season 2?
Good character and also hot