Honestly, any sub with "circlejerk" in the name is full of the dumbest, most ignorant people you will ever see. Who could've guessed that groups dedicated to acting smarter than other people end up full of idiots?
Yep and then you have dumbasses that say "it's a circlejerk sub you're not supposed to take it serious since it's satire."
Cool, I can just join a circlejerk sub, and lie and strawman people all I want and then just act like I was pretending.
Not letting people get away with that Scott free strikes me as a good idea.
In either case there's enough seriousposting there to be able to tell what the views are that are being communicated - or are likely to have informed any given "exaggerated joke".
Here's a sneak peek of /r/nflcirclejerk using the [top posts](https://np.reddit.com/r/nflcirclejerk/top/?sort=top&t=year) of the year!
\#1: [Jimmy Kimmel Response to Aaron Rodgers🤣](https://i.redd.it/4uj8360w64ac1.jpeg) | [3927 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/nflcirclejerk/comments/18x4ep0/jimmy_kimmel_response_to_aaron_rodgers/)
\#2: [This is one of the greatest jerking sequences of all time..](https://www.reddit.com/gallery/19fdwaz) | [874 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/nflcirclejerk/comments/19fdwaz/this_is_one_of_the_greatest_jerking_sequences_of/)
\#3: [We got the worst possible matchup](https://i.redd.it/6826iwtkpafc1.jpeg) | [1407 comments](https://np.reddit.com/r/nflcirclejerk/comments/1adl0de/we_got_the_worst_possible_matchup/)
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What exactly does that mean? Like what is the purpose of “circlejerk” subs? All I see are dumb takes, dumb takes that they’re laughing at, or dumb takes in response to other dumb takes.
A lot of the main subs mods will get all butt hurt if you “make fun of people” even if what the person is posting is extremely idiotic. That means we kind of congregate over to the circlejerk subs to do so
Pretty much, or you’ll LARP with exaggerations. In some cases they’ll get overrun like this Star Wars one or the gaming one. So you’ll have to look at the user profile to see their intent
DC and Marvel (and comic) are 50/50 in my experience. Sometimes it’s dumb stuff, other times they’re just jokingly taking the piss, and sometimes they’ll even have something profound.
Lots of them are really good; you've just made a judgement based on your prejudices.
Have you tried r/fuckingironiccirclejerk cuz I could just crosspost what you've written here without edits.
I made a judgment based on the fact every post I've ever seen from a circlejerk sub was either horribly unfunny, full of idiots or a harassment campaign from gamingcirclejerk
It's just ad hominem. They can't defeat our argument so they attack our character instead.
I dislike poorly written media with poorly written characters that just exist solely to tick X diversity box.
I don't think they realize it can be organic and good at the same time, I'm not sure why they insist on shoving it down our throats then getting angry when we say "No thank you, that's shite".
If you'd told me when I was a kid that in the future we'd communicate using moving pictures that looped with bits of text on the bottom I might have thought that sounded kind of cool because I would not have realised that it would lead to us becoming inarticulate morons, like it's the worst Twilight Zone episode ever.
You know how if an industry starts to get too big [regulatory capture](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulatory_capture#:~:text=Regulatory%20capture%20refers%20to%20the,primarily%20for%20its%20benefit...) is an inevitable outcome?
Same thing happens on reddit. You have janitorial capture when subreddits start to hit a certain size and the terminally online nowork moderators move in for more prestige.
> That subreddit seems as bad as the Gaming CJ.
I found that sub like 1-2 weeks before the whole transphobe-jannie drama, and they were saying they wanted to be a non- or less political / culture war obsessed Krayt offshoot;
then however the moment that happened they started soying all over the place about their allegiance to the flag, and I take it they still haven't recovered after that then?
>Also, again, Leia? Hello?
Be careful! Say that too much and you'll see people move the goal posts and say that Leia is a straw person. They seem to always do when they are presented with an example to something they can't easily refute.
Most CJ subs usually tend to be full of the crowd who thinks anyone who doesn't mindlessly consume a product with a brand name slapped on it is irrational/a bad person
The destruction of Alerdran was the greatest Yes Queen moment of Star Wars before Disney bought it. The fact that Grand Moff Tarkin was a woman and Anakin blew up the Death Star because of that shows how misogynistic the Rebels truly were. Yes, Tarkin was a woman, it's only a matter of time until before it is retconned.
Damn it. I just a very vivid image of an old lady walking with a cane and ordering Alderaan destroyed because some punks are buzzing around her lawn again.
xD
What the fuck are you on about? Star Wars is still very much male dominated and I don’t think has ever touched the subject of misogyny. You guys give Disney way too much credit for representation. It only it was half as “woke” as you make it out to be.
No seriously, he’s talked about this on interviews. I’m just quoting the guy.
https://youtu.be/fv9Jq_mCJEo?si=x4viblNPkSCi2Sbl
Skip to 1:00 if you don’t believe me.
I’m not saying it’s 1 to 1 to the real war but it would be a lie to say he wasn’t in any way influenced by the Vietnam war to write star wars.
Then it's the shittiest "inspiring" i've ever seen. Not a single aspect of the movies corelates in any way with nam
At this point, he should just addmit that he can't even put nam on a map
It correlates in the sense that it’s about a small group of jungle fighters FIGHTING a big colonize army and winning. All I’m saying is that the connection Is intentional.
>small group of jungle fighters
The VC and PAVN were not a small group of jungle fighters
>FIGHTING a big colonize army and winning.
The war was started by the northern commies. It would make more sense if it was the 1st indochina war.
And even then, at no point did the VC nor PAVN defeat american units in any meaninful number. Ei, they never replicated Dien Bie Phu
Ok fair, jungle fighters isn’t the right term for the Vietnam but compared to the USA they were still rather small. Also the us lost in the sense that they entered Vietnam to prevent communism from taking over and failed in that regard. (Not trying justify any side over here, just stating the facts.)
Star Wars in the 1970s: 'Heroism comes from character and resolve; not mere power.'
Star Wars in the 2020s: 'Your heroes had no character or resolve, and our self-inserts will overpower them.'
Very much did.
>Luke abandoned everything he fought for.
>Leia and Mothma instituted a corrupt and feckless government.
>Han abandoned his family.
Every hero of the OT was rewritten to be incompetent if not an out-and-out traitor.
Luke went into cynical depression retirement between the moment Kylo turned (or maybe some time later?) and the Crait battle - that's about the only true part of that sentence.
Neither he nor anyone else got "overpowered" by any "self-inserts".
>>Leia and Mothma instituted a corrupt and feckless government.
Mothma wasn't mentioned anywhere, she was just a military leader with some kinda possibly aristocratic background.
Leia was also just a military leader, now firmly with the Resistance, it was never said what role she played or didn't play in the politics or how much influence/power she had achieved at any point. (Local royalty and Senate member isn't too high of a position, on the galactic/republic scale.)
And they never established anything much about the government, so where are you taking the whole corrupt feckless thing from?
All that's known is that they were officially pursuing some kinda appeasement/tolerance policy with the FO while secretly backing the Resistance.
>Han abandoned his family.
No, just his wife who didn't need his direct help at any point, by the sound of it.
What was there even for him to do? He just went back to working in the underground; then immediately jumped back in and even sacrificed himself (or took the risk) the moment he was needed.
And "traitor" what? Who betrayed anyone? Now you're just straight up hallucinating.
The same thing happened with the 2016 Ghostbusters. Sony deliberately deleted comments saying it looked bad, but left all the sexist comments - making it look like the argument against the film is sexist.
Reduce the opponents argument to make them look childish and bigoted.
I think the worst part is that there's a good shot this is a satire subreddit but I really can't tell because the people who do say this stuff unironically do these arguments. If it's bait congrats to the poster you got me hook line and sinker.
Memes are one thing, but the "satire" claims are a bad attempt at avoiding criticism. You see it with gaming circlejerk a lot, they start mass brigading and hating other subs & streamers, encourage doxxing and bullying, and all kinds of other heinous shit. When you call them out on it they always parrot "Uhm actually we're a satire sub and it's all jokes so you're not allowed to criticise us for anything"
Even if they were just jokes, you can criticise jokes as well (unless they think that all comedy films, regardless of quality, are immune to criticism). Besides, the best satire has an understanding of what they're satirising (and usually an appreciation as well), when memes like this just turn the other side into a strawman so they can feel good about a 'win'.
And yes, the fact that these subreddits go out of the way to harrass, disparage and in the worst cases wreck the lives of those they consider 'enemies' while at the same time claiming to be the poor underdogs fighting the good fight is genuinely disgusting, and a big part of why genuine discourse (where both sides attempt to at the very least understand each other's perspective) is so hard to come by nowadays.
> “Any community that gets its laughs by pretending to be idiots will eventually be flooded by actual idiots who mistakenly believe that they’re in good company.”
>— René Descartes
This. I love the original, but the writing, and particularly the dialogue, was a mess. I'd still give it a 10/10 though, cause its a joy to watch from start to finish as long as your not coming into it looking to critique everything, but rather just to have fun.
Some nauseating comments on that post, some users on this site read into things wayyyyyyy to hard, the idea of a sect of the star wars could be "fascist" because they don't like the new shows/movies, or like the Empire is such brainrot I can only eyeroll with exasperation every time I see it
The CIA (or NSA, or whoever) turned on The Devil’s Machine in earnest around the time of Wikileaks to “control the message” and it broke a lot of people’s brains. You’re either an ally or a nazi even if it’s about your favorite ice cream flavor.
I saw this posted in circle jerk and this was my response, funnily enough no one is too keen to engage with you when you provide irrefutable evidence they are wrong.
Yeah haha let’s pretend it’s bigotry and make excuses for the bad writing. It’s not like we have precedents of strong female characters that had their own storyline’s that the fan base adored….. oh wait a fucking minute
Leia Skywalker, Ashoka Tano, Mara Jade Skywalker, Asajj Ventress, Bo-Katan Kryze, Hera Syndulla, Jen Erso, Darth Talon, Satele Shan, Bastila Shan and many others.
Pull your heads out of your ass. It’s bad writing. I’m all for more diversity in TV shows, I’m a white dude, I like having relatable characters and I feel like everyone should have the ability to easily relate. If we need to do that with race and sex representation then not a problem.
But you don’t get to pretend you are making good media just because you are appealing to a certain race, minority, sex or culture.
If you make a shit piece of media then just own up to it and do better next time but these so called creatives in charge of Star Wars currently are fuelled by rabid people like you lot that seem to want nothing more than to cause division. You guys are more to blame than people like Kathleen who are actually making crap.
In acolyte for example they have a fucking fire in space, which is possible but the gas source that is powering the flame would come from one spot, it should look like a flame thrower. Even it’s not safe to do practically it’s not like we don’t have CGI. Instead they opted for a standard open flame that is actively reacting to the oxygen in the air even though the scene is set in space. It would have been cheap but you still could of wrote around this if you had managed to somehow create a bubble of atmosphere but you still keep the main character in a suit meaning there isn’t one.
The majority of people aren’t upset because if diversity or female characters, we are upset because this kind of half assed work can somehow pass for good writing and it makes the franchise we love and care about look like shit.
Reminder that this is the same SubReddit where if you say, "people loved Princess Leia in the originals" as an argument about how certain [strong] female characters from the 70s and 80s are beloved, what's different now; they'll then tell you OG fans were upset and didn't approve of them back in the day and it took nearly forty years to get recognized.
It’s a simple matter of asking about why people Like Padme in the prequels or Jyn Erso in the Disney era. Or like 50 other women characters like Ashoka or Sabine.
Jesus Christ this has to be the biggest gaslight in the history of movie/film
If these people exist, which I’m starting to doubt that at all, but if they do, they are not even a single percent of the Star Wars fandom, let alone a percent of the critics
I find it interesting how circlerk subs that are made with the intention critizing the circle jerking in fanbases end up being some of the most egregious circlejerks themselves.
It is a well know fact that people hated having Leia on screen /s
It’s absolutely mental that the idiots in pretty much every subreddit lack the capacity to understand why lore and continuity matter.
If you buy a franchise with an established lore and you want to tell new stories in said franchise, you should make sure what you write doesn’t contradict what’s already there. I’m sure there are tons of people with knowledge of Star Wars who’d be thrilled to work as lore masters.
It also helps when you tell compelling stories people can relate to, instead of whatever the Acolyte is
I think a lot of people talk about the bad writing and terrible character writing.
I also think there is dumb people who only look at the symptoms of the changes (some good some bad) more diversity both gender and race wise.
People see that and correlate it to the bad story telling hence the random out of pocket racial and gender comments.
Yeah clearly the problem is that the audience is racist and misogynist.... Let's check the white men led box office hit of last weekend... ops, it's 2 black guys and a latino as the main heroes 🤷♂️
OP if that were the case; why do all of the major YouTubers and fandom sites always frame their critiques about "the message," "girlboss," "girlbrand," "DEI," and "wokeness" And not about characterization, plot strutucture, narrative flow, themes, pacing.
Also when was Star Wars ever about equality? Not saying it’s about the opposite, but there wasn’t shit about equality in the OT. The premise of the movies was literally that a talented chosen one stepped up and helped solve a problem that a large rebellion had so far been unable to solve. Literally just Great Man History the Movie, and I don’t mean that in a bad way
Not a big Star Wars guy. Only really watched as a kid. But Padme, Leia and Asoka are all beloved characters as far as I know.
The problem is not and never has been women being in the films.
It's that people would rather be told a story than told what to think. And it's incredibly odd to bully and shame people for having qualms with the fact that you're using their beloved entertainment as an opportunity to advertise your social concerns. Alot of which aren't concurrently bad. A lot of which you are happy to preach against but not practice against.
Not misogyny. But Anti-Authoritarian Rebellion.
It’s all they have, no one can truly defend this garbage show. I know straight shills on IG who are refusing to hype it up. One even said the, “even I can’t defend this.”
If you want to stop people from saying you hate the show because of women, then stop saying it sucks because of “woke” like many of you like to say.
Saying the writing is bad is perfectly legit . Just stop using “woke” as an insult because it makes you look dumb.
Honestly I sorta agree that the word woke is stupid because it's just become more or less yet another buzzword, but to counterpoint maybe you should actually try to understand what people are saying instead of hyper focusing on the fact they said a word and interpret the worst based on it.
When most people use the word "woke" they criticize how multibillion dollar corporations are trying to objectify and weaponize identity driven politics as a means of trying to dismiss and demonize anyone who dares to criticize them. Yeah there are idiots that do the idiotic "Oh they got a gay? Woke." Much like there are idiots that hyper obsess over their sexuality to a cult like degree to the point that it consumes their whole personality. That doesn't speak for the whole and it's disingenuous stereotyping to say it does.
Fair or not, it’s the reputation the word has. It’s kind of like how you might have no racist intentions when using the n-word, but if you use it a lot of people are gonna assume you’re racist.
On another note, corporations are trying to demonize everyone who disagrees with them. Corporations only worship money, so anything performative they do is purely cynical and in the name of profit. They don’t actually care about the wellbeing of gay peoples. THAT’s what the criticism should be. But using “woke” just makes people assume you’re part of the problem.
Funnily enough most people who criticize the corporations for it and stuff like that get roped into the "antiwoke" crowd anyways so it's not like it makes that big a difference.
All I'm saying is understand the neuance of it.
the fact that they actually think being a fan of star wars in the 70s was about being anti-emperialism shows they have lived with brain rot their entire lives.
It's not even good deflection. They completely ignore all of the valid criticisms and zero on on something that usually isn't even said. They also completely ignore the sheer volume of examples of good, well written, or at least fun female characters, including several from Star wars itself. It's disingenuous and stupid but gets circle jerked around.
Excoriates now why we hate the Star Wars sequels. The majority of them hate it cause it was a horrible Star Wars trilogy.
Nobody cared Jinn Urso was a chick and that movie was awesome
Nobody cared princess Leia or padme was a chick and they were heroes too!
Even mon mothma has her own massive following
Stop protecting these people they are not being oppressed. They just don’t know how to make good Star Wars content
No one is not watching the acolyte cause there are chicks in it or blacks and Asians.
If the world was racist black panther would have bombed immediately
But no just because I don’t like this garbage and just because 90 percent of Star Wars fans don’t like Disneys garbage doesn’t make us homophobic transphobic racist or sexist. Who gives a crap what skin color you are?
But if the shows sole intent is to please 5 percent of the world (and then they attack the 95 percent who don’t like it) then Disney is the common denominator not the fans
Well they also thought "I've just analyzed the plot in all its details and have come to the conclusion that it contains no plot holes and is therefore well written - I'm now officially becoming a fan and will have an expectation of future installments to live up to the same standards", other than that yeah lol
I'm going to be uncharacteristic and say: OOP is overshooting the mark. The writers of Disney Wars are (among many other problems) generally too focused on inclusion (often under the false assertion that it wasn't there already). Shit like the half second Lesbian kiss in TROS is worthless and insulting, and people making claims like "X is the first female villain" in 2024 is ignorant as all hell and sweeps dozens of incredible antagonists under the rug. There are and have always been some genuinely Synthetic Man type idiots out there mad that WAHMENS are in their movies and they can go fuck a cactus, but a lot of fans are acting in good faith and are perfectly right to be upset
It is absolutely true that (as always except for glorious Andor) ideals of revolution, equality, anti imperialism, as well as understanding of governance and politics in general take a back seat. The OT and Prequels were not perfect at this but they were much better than now. The New Republic is worthless and uninspiring, and watching anything set during the imperial period is blighted by the idea that everything the characters do is basically in vain.
This has to come with a ton of caveats: inclusion and even race swapping are absolutely not bad inherently (Shawshank is awesome and Freeman killed it), no matter anyones demographics or ideology illogical writing is still a problem, Disney is ultimately a company that is trying (badly) to make money and not socially engineer anything, more inclusion is not the direct or sole cause of less idealistic politics.
And to reiterate: the Synthetic Man people are out there, they absolutely fucking suck, but you have to look past them to the rest of the fans. Otherwise all we can do is shriek at each other from across a chasm and achieve nothing. If you can't stand watching a Mauler video to test this, [Sheev Talks](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McR_P9izG5M) \[I promise this video is short of half an hour\] might be a better entry point for you if you want a perspective that's critical of modern Disney Wars but is very firmly outside the "wokeness is ruining everything" camp. [Gaming Magic 13](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlKvQxtlrQ8) also makes [long form videos](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8OdcH3-uf0) and I strongly recommend him as well.
I mean... I've quite enjoyed the Acolyte. It's not A New Hope, Empire Strikes Back, or Andor, but its probably in my top 5 star wars shows/movies so far. Despite that, hours before the episode had aired anywhere in the world, episode 4 of Acolyte had tons of 1/10 reviews on every review site that opened itself up for review submissions prior to the episode airing.
I fully understand that not everyone has the same tastes as me, I've had people tell me they genuinely did not like The Empire Strikes Back and I consider that as close to a perfect movie as a movie can get, but the evidence I'm seeing from reviews suggests that the majority of people giving it bad scores haven't actually watched it and are just hating on it for things unrelated to the quality of the show itself.
So, are all the people who say they don't like Acolyte just misogynistic or racist, I doubt it, but there does seem to be strong evidence thats where a lot of the hate is coming from, which leads to people making posts like that one in response to THOSE kind of "fans".
Why are you people pretending that people weren't being sexist/racist/homophobic/etc before the show came out? They were being racist when the initial casting first came out. This same exact thing happened to John Boyega when the first trailer for The Force Awakens came out. Stop obfuscating the point.
"A few people on the internet said something racist about the show therefore literally everyone who criticizes it is racist."
Get an actual argument. Even if every character was a straight white man in that show it'd still be dog shit through and through. The only reason why they even have diversity in that show is so they can weaponize morons who hyper obsess over that stuff into defending their mountain of sewage.
And you say we obfuscate the point lmfao.
I see you put that first part in quotes. Can you point to where I made that argument? That everyone who criticized the show was racist? I said why are people pretending like there aren't racist attacks based on the initial casting alone? Which there was.
I haven't made a single comment regarding the quality of any show or many.
The whole point of my post is mocking people who are portraying everyone criticizing the show as over the top bigots just because they're criticizing a bad show and your comment is you taking their side and saying I'm "obfuscating the point" and making the argument that a handful of people said something racist once they're right.
Maybe stop giving the small handful the attention of the entire world next time.
Because you people pretend that that's the issue. When someone says 'hey this show's writing is bad because of these specific things. This plot hole, this terrible dialogue, this retcon, this convenience, etc....Noone is going 'woah why are you being such a bigot'? That is NOT happening.
What IS happening, is someone will make a video 'Nerdrotic, Critical Drinker, Geek + Gamers, Heelsvsbabyface, RK Outpost, Knights Watch, etc' and they'll spend a very small amount of time talking about these specific issues, which are valid criticisms, but they'll make 6 other videos complaining about 'THE MESSAGE' or wokeness or diversity or 'strong diverse female protagonist'. If you have a valid criticism of the show, why do you have to use the phrase 'strong diverse female protagonist' 20 times in a video. Why is Critical Drinker counting all the black and woman characters in a trailer? Noone is calling MoistCr1tikal racist or sexist and he's made two videos Criticizing the show. John Campea has made multiple videos talking about how bad the show is. Noone is calling them bigots because they don't mention 'diversity, wokeness, etc' in their videos...because that's not a valid criticism.
Just like when the Obi-Wan Kenobi tv show came out. Moses Ingram posted screenshots of multiple racist DMs she got after the show aired. Disney came out and said "There are more than 20 million sentient species in the Star Wars galaxy, don't choose to be a racist"..and then you lot came out and were like 'woah what the heck? I guess we're all racists if we don't like the show.' Which is obviously not what they said at all.
It's disingenuous, dishonest, and pathetic. THAT is obfuscating the point.
Except these people do say that you're racist for pointing it out. https://www.reddit.com/r/Highrepublic/s/IMzhLgggco here's a post doing that exact thing referencing an article spouting the same bullshit as a form of vindication. The Moses Ingram situation is a perfect example because people who defended the show used it to generalize anyone who dares to criticize the show and now they've been doing it again and again and again. It's gotten to the point that even the heads of these companies themselves are saying it. Amazon did it with Rings of Power, Ubisoft is doing it with the new Assassin's Creed game (and a few others they've done), Naughty Dog did it with TLOU2, people at HBO did it with Velma, and Disney does it with virtually everything they've made in the past few years. The sole reason why Disney even bothers with diversity hiring is so they can weaponize it to dismiss criticisms against them. It's been proven several times Disney will actively refuse to hire people based on their race due to it not being "inclusive enough," between leaks from current and former employees. People like Drinker don't point out the race and gender and sexuality of these characters and actors because he's a bigot he does it to showcase how these people are objectifying and weaponizing these people for when they get criticized and holding double standards (which if you ask me is very bigoted to begin with).
If Drinker was seriously a bigot I don't think he'd praise movies shows and games like Furiosa, Arcane, The Last of Us show (even said his favorite episode was the one that focuses exclusively on the gay couple with the gay sex scene in it), Blade, RRR, Cyberpunk Edgerunners, Predator, Prey, Oldboy, The Last Samurai, Alien and Aliens, Terminator 1 and 2, Squidgame, M3gan, Bad Boys Ride or Die, Edge of Tomorrow, Bullet Train, The Queens Gambit, Gran Torino, Train to Busan, House of the Dragon (as well as early Game of Thrones), Andor, God of War Ragnarok, Fall, The Descent, Godzilla Minus One, Cabrini, or several other titles I've missed him talking about/can't remember off the top of my head. But in order to actually see that you'd need to, you know, actually watch and listen to what he's saying and not blindly view him as this alt right caricature that people display him as just because they don't agree with him.
Andrew Tate fanboy type people have frankly always been around it's just people only chose to give them attention because they look to be offended. I'm sure there were people back in the 70's bitching about Leia being a badass or something but history have shown the majority of men LOVE movies and shows with great female leads and characters like Kill Bill 1 and 2, Jackie Brown, Silence of the Lambs, Terminator 1 and 2, Million Dollar Baby, A Nightmare on Elm Street, Matrix, Halloween, The Fifth Element, Mad Max Fury Road (and from everything I heard Furiosa is also great but sadly it's just not doing well box office wise).
The argument is that EVERY SINGLE PERSON who hates this stuff hates women. It's a bad faith argument with no actual backing outside of stereotyping people they hate.
Mate if you dig deep enough just about anywhere that people are you're gonna hit a sewage pipe eventually. The problem is that the argument is that literally anyone who criticizes anything of new star wars garbage is labeled as one.
The Acolyte has made it so apparent how big of pieces of shit the incels Star Wars has attracted over the years are. I'd 100% rather see the series keep doing exactly what they're doing, if it means misogynistic halfwits aren't going to like the same thing I do that's just an added bonus.
Yeah nothing says "I'm a misogynist" like defending a series that is heavily influenced and defined by powerful and important female characters and criticizing shitty nonsensical retcons lmfao.
The cameo of Mundi is strike 1, there hasn't been one other retcon or actual issue until that episode. All there was for the first 3 was a mob of lemmings shouting the same pedantic moron statements over one another without any substance. They stroke their own confirmation bias second only to how much they stroke to their headcannons and imagined George Lucas versions that never even existed in his head.
But feel free to flail around with the same futility every one of those pedantic morons displayed in trying to explain all the gaping issues that don't exist. Mundi is strike 1 and considering that I don't care all that much.
The whole show is a retcon in it of itself. The first sighting of a sith wasn't until Phantom Menace when Darth Maul attacked. Anakin was the only time a person was conceived through the force, and the show is written by people who are openly admitting they are trying to portray the Sith, an evil corrupt imperialist slave harboring genocidal regime, as misunderstood good guys. Not even mentioning that the force is now apparently "threads that some people can pull on" and not an "energy that flows through all things" or even midichlorians (I would assume normally that's how the tribe would view it but given literally everything else about the show I doubt it).
Also, George Lucas did have massive of lore in forms of novels that take place before the Prequels and after the Main trilogy. They aren't making stuff up "headcannons and imagined George Lucas versions that never even existed," they are literally saying "Hey, this makes zero sense and completely breaks the lore." But seeing how the creator has openly stated that George Lucas himself doesn't even know how Star Wars works and are claiming they're the only ones that do and that thinking George Lucas, the man who literally invented Star Wars, does is misogynistic. Again, literally her own words.
https://youtu.be/aaeQoPnixNU?t=436
But no they're the morons and bigots. It's not like you're denying any form of reality or factual basis and stereotyping an entire group of people to justify your hatred against them. Oh wait...
.... God dude that was hard to read. I'm gonna try to answer everything in order, feel free to ask for more details on anything because I'm just gonna go quick.
They don't know it's a "Sith" other dark side 'religious sects' exist, like the witches themselves. The Jedi believed the Sith extinct, like Canaanites in the Bible. They would have still presumably seen a red lightsaber or dark side force sensitives that aren't connected to the Sith in that time.
Guess we'll see with the whole "immaculate conception" but I'm betting that's not the whole truth. Was prolly 1 baby that they made twins or something else, but you'll have to wait for the reveal.
Insane to say they're casting the Sith as 'good' or whatever when the Sith guy is orchestrating murders, and concerning the witches, we still don't know what they were up to. Was it despicable enough to cause the Jedi to kill them? Maybe, or maybe the Jedi killed them because they made the mistake of thinking all who draw on the dark side are as evil as the Sith, hence the guilt in Torbin. Again, guess we'll see.
That's just how some cult leader is describing the force dude. Don't be thick. What, she should have been citing jedi scrolls? Facepalm.
George Lucas is a fat old man who sold the franchise, they'll use some of his ideas and they will use some ideas that are not his. Many of the ideas from Star Wars EU were better than Lucas' own ideas, some weren't. He didn't like some of the EU and some of it he did. He wasn't a genius bro I'm tired of hearing about him.
Most of the people who hate on this show are morons and/or bigots. I've seen them proudly admit to the bigotry and repeatedly offer up the poorly thought out arguments you made here. So in your case I know you're a moron, you definitely don't have a problem with the bigots who you sit in the echo chamber with, so maybe just a racist apologist?
But lmk if you'd like to be taught about Star Wars a little more, like I said I'll provide more details about the ways you're wrong if you'd like.
Incredible. You just proved literally everything I mentioned previously and yet you still think you're right. Absolutely outstanding. I'm genuinely amazed. I mean you don't even get basic details about the show correct, the Jedi don't kill the witches it was the twin who did after she started a fire in a house because she had a hissy fit her sister would become a Jedi and the witches all died because of it. And of course you prove my point I was making the whole time to top it off by proving that people who defend the show simply go around blindly accusing literally anyone who talks bad about it as bigots. And of course you ignore the creators themselves saying they think the Sith are good and want to make them the good guys.
Hey guess what they explicitly state he's a sith in the new episode. Meaning they know it's a sith. Once again, you are wrong. Whomp whomp.
https://preview.redd.it/f1dbdp02iv8d1.jpeg?width=1076&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=286033aeffa6d796c95163b0a7a52032b1d54c29
Hey guess what, we all knew he was a Sith lmfao when did I say it wasnt? but the Jedi literally all got killed aside from Sol. So you pretty much still have to be a retard to think this is a continuity issue whomp whomp 🫤
That episode was garbage tho, such a fucking bad 'surprise'. I was in my head pleading "don't be Qimir" but we all knew it was Qimir. Anticlimactic garbage choice on that.
It 100% is a continuity issue because what a bunch of Jedi die and they think nothing of it? They don't think that's a concern or suspicious at all? Also it goes entirely against the rule of two the sith hold to. At this time I think it would have just been Plagueis and Teneborous at this time. So who trained Qimir? It doesn't make sense.
Also my bad I misread this part of the paragraph. I thought you were arguing on how it could not be a Sith. Although realistically I feel they would still assume it based on how the Sith act and fight as opposed to other dark side wielders. Like Qui Gon knew Darth Maul was a sith based on his combat prowess alone when they first clashed.
https://preview.redd.it/c8mglmggex8d1.jpeg?width=712&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5ca00356ec053215894a4e3c97f4e9e09ecab3ef
Now just so you don't get confused and say something stupid and embarrassing again, it *could* become a continuity issue if Sol goes straight back to the order and tells them he encountered Sith. Until specifically hearing him say he is Sith even Sol would have considered that a wild assumption, and wouldn't have known, that was what I patiently explained to you before. Now Sol knows, so if he let's the Jedi know, and by extension Mundi, that is a massive fuck up.
I already explained it in the other comment but there being a third Sith at this time is a bug fuck up and Mundi shouldn't even be conceived yet, so him being there is already a fuck up lmfao.
Read a math book, 'cause you can't spell or count.
Go ahead, have the last word. I'm sure it'll be fresh and original, and not at all another dusted off, hackneyed response.
Do people frequently accuse you of just mentioning buzz words instead of using actual arguments then?
I really have no idea what you mean by my needing to read a book on maths or your suggestion that I can't spell. As far as I know books on mathematics don't teach you how to spell but I'm happy to hear about where you got that impression.
And do please give me something to respond to rather than just providing a string of baseless accusations cos that's my kink.
That subreddit seems as bad as the Gaming CJ. Also, again, Leia? Hello?
Honestly, any sub with "circlejerk" in the name is full of the dumbest, most ignorant people you will ever see. Who could've guessed that groups dedicated to acting smarter than other people end up full of idiots?
Yep and then you have dumbasses that say "it's a circlejerk sub you're not supposed to take it serious since it's satire." Cool, I can just join a circlejerk sub, and lie and strawman people all I want and then just act like I was pretending. Not letting people get away with that Scott free strikes me as a good idea.
https://preview.redd.it/ctcqemfeym7d1.jpeg?width=640&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=3b6fd57346028858f60be4d2c8a7c33a779d211b
Some circle jerk subs are good like r/overwatchcirclejerk and the OG r/circlejerk
Guitar circlejerk is fantastic
r/LEGOcirclejerk since a bunch of posts are reposts from the main sub
r/CarCirclejerk is also pretty fun.
r/magicthecirclejerking is pretty funny too
In either case there's enough seriousposting there to be able to tell what the views are that are being communicated - or are likely to have informed any given "exaggerated joke".
r/nflcirclejerk is awesome though
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What exactly does that mean? Like what is the purpose of “circlejerk” subs? All I see are dumb takes, dumb takes that they’re laughing at, or dumb takes in response to other dumb takes.
A lot of the main subs mods will get all butt hurt if you “make fun of people” even if what the person is posting is extremely idiotic. That means we kind of congregate over to the circlejerk subs to do so
Oh ok so it’s just laughing at all the most ridiculous takes for a particular fandom?
Pretty much, or you’ll LARP with exaggerations. In some cases they’ll get overrun like this Star Wars one or the gaming one. So you’ll have to look at the user profile to see their intent
lol that sounds confusing but I think I get what you’re saying and why I didn’t get what “circlejerk” subs were before now.
Check out LEGO circlejerk. It hasn’t really been tainted yet
Haha ok I will thanks!
DC and Marvel (and comic) are 50/50 in my experience. Sometimes it’s dumb stuff, other times they’re just jokingly taking the piss, and sometimes they’ll even have something profound.
Lots of them are really good; you've just made a judgement based on your prejudices. Have you tried r/fuckingironiccirclejerk cuz I could just crosspost what you've written here without edits.
I made a judgment based on the fact every post I've ever seen from a circlejerk sub was either horribly unfunny, full of idiots or a harassment campaign from gamingcirclejerk
> Who could've guessed that groups dedicated to acting smarter than other people end up full of idiots? ahem ahem
It's just ad hominem. They can't defeat our argument so they attack our character instead. I dislike poorly written media with poorly written characters that just exist solely to tick X diversity box. I don't think they realize it can be organic and good at the same time, I'm not sure why they insist on shoving it down our throats then getting angry when we say "No thank you, that's shite".
This character really is a cliche. Can you write one that isn't a whiny bitch crying cos they're not the centre of attention any more?
If you'd told me when I was a kid that in the future we'd communicate using moving pictures that looped with bits of text on the bottom I might have thought that sounded kind of cool because I would not have realised that it would lead to us becoming inarticulate morons, like it's the worst Twilight Zone episode ever.
You don't seem all that fun to converse with if I am being honest.
You know how if an industry starts to get too big [regulatory capture](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulatory_capture#:~:text=Regulatory%20capture%20refers%20to%20the,primarily%20for%20its%20benefit...) is an inevitable outcome? Same thing happens on reddit. You have janitorial capture when subreddits start to hit a certain size and the terminally online nowork moderators move in for more prestige.
> That subreddit seems as bad as the Gaming CJ. I found that sub like 1-2 weeks before the whole transphobe-jannie drama, and they were saying they wanted to be a non- or less political / culture war obsessed Krayt offshoot; then however the moment that happened they started soying all over the place about their allegiance to the flag, and I take it they still haven't recovered after that then?
>Also, again, Leia? Hello? Be careful! Say that too much and you'll see people move the goal posts and say that Leia is a straw person. They seem to always do when they are presented with an example to something they can't easily refute.
One token woman in the movie doesn't pass the Bechdel test you simp lol
It’s hit or miss, there are some posts that are funny but recently there’s more misses than hits. Probably the Acolyte shills
Most CJ subs usually tend to be full of the crowd who thinks anyone who doesn't mindlessly consume a product with a brand name slapped on it is irrational/a bad person
What about Jyn Erso? No? Or Ventress? Aayla Secura?
Not sure the gaming CJ is a whole other level of cringe and stupidity
But I have been told the best part of Star Wars is that there is no good or evil the Empire was just misunderstood.
The destruction of Alerdran was the greatest Yes Queen moment of Star Wars before Disney bought it. The fact that Grand Moff Tarkin was a woman and Anakin blew up the Death Star because of that shows how misogynistic the Rebels truly were. Yes, Tarkin was a woman, it's only a matter of time until before it is retconned.
Damn it. I just a very vivid image of an old lady walking with a cane and ordering Alderaan destroyed because some punks are buzzing around her lawn again. xD
>Yes, Tarkin was a woman, it's only a matter of time until before it is retconned. Grand Muff Tarkin
Grand Girlboss Tarkina
What the fuck are you on about? Star Wars is still very much male dominated and I don’t think has ever touched the subject of misogyny. You guys give Disney way too much credit for representation. It only it was half as “woke” as you make it out to be.
Star Wars 1970: World War 2 in space. Star Wars 2024: THIS EPISODE FEATURES THE FIRST BLACK LESBIAN IN STAR WARS HISTORY AND IT. IS. EVERYTHIIIIIING!
Well, tbf this is also Star Wars in 2024. https://youtu.be/YdG04Vb-TYw?feature=shared
Star Wars was directly based off the Vietnam during the Vietnam war. George Lucas has talked about this multiple times on interviews.
It can't ve about nam. Because the rebels aren't mass murdering civilians on every opportunity and no equivalent to south vietnam is showed
No seriously, he’s talked about this on interviews. I’m just quoting the guy. https://youtu.be/fv9Jq_mCJEo?si=x4viblNPkSCi2Sbl Skip to 1:00 if you don’t believe me. I’m not saying it’s 1 to 1 to the real war but it would be a lie to say he wasn’t in any way influenced by the Vietnam war to write star wars.
Then it's the shittiest "inspiring" i've ever seen. Not a single aspect of the movies corelates in any way with nam At this point, he should just addmit that he can't even put nam on a map
It correlates in the sense that it’s about a small group of jungle fighters FIGHTING a big colonize army and winning. All I’m saying is that the connection Is intentional.
>small group of jungle fighters The VC and PAVN were not a small group of jungle fighters >FIGHTING a big colonize army and winning. The war was started by the northern commies. It would make more sense if it was the 1st indochina war. And even then, at no point did the VC nor PAVN defeat american units in any meaninful number. Ei, they never replicated Dien Bie Phu
Ok fair, jungle fighters isn’t the right term for the Vietnam but compared to the USA they were still rather small. Also the us lost in the sense that they entered Vietnam to prevent communism from taking over and failed in that regard. (Not trying justify any side over here, just stating the facts.)
...sooo WW2 in space lol. Just the other side
Star Wars in the 1970s: 'Heroism comes from character and resolve; not mere power.' Star Wars in the 2020s: 'Your heroes had no character or resolve, and our self-inserts will overpower them.'
> Star Wars in the 2020s: 'Your heroes had no character or resolve, and our self-inserts will overpower them.' Didn't happen.
Very much did. >Luke abandoned everything he fought for. >Leia and Mothma instituted a corrupt and feckless government. >Han abandoned his family. Every hero of the OT was rewritten to be incompetent if not an out-and-out traitor.
Luke went into cynical depression retirement between the moment Kylo turned (or maybe some time later?) and the Crait battle - that's about the only true part of that sentence. Neither he nor anyone else got "overpowered" by any "self-inserts". >>Leia and Mothma instituted a corrupt and feckless government. Mothma wasn't mentioned anywhere, she was just a military leader with some kinda possibly aristocratic background. Leia was also just a military leader, now firmly with the Resistance, it was never said what role she played or didn't play in the politics or how much influence/power she had achieved at any point. (Local royalty and Senate member isn't too high of a position, on the galactic/republic scale.) And they never established anything much about the government, so where are you taking the whole corrupt feckless thing from? All that's known is that they were officially pursuing some kinda appeasement/tolerance policy with the FO while secretly backing the Resistance. >Han abandoned his family. No, just his wife who didn't need his direct help at any point, by the sound of it. What was there even for him to do? He just went back to working in the underground; then immediately jumped back in and even sacrificed himself (or took the risk) the moment he was needed. And "traitor" what? Who betrayed anyone? Now you're just straight up hallucinating.
did you not actually watch the sequels?
Idk I just described them accurately while the previous dude did not.
The same thing happened with the 2016 Ghostbusters. Sony deliberately deleted comments saying it looked bad, but left all the sexist comments - making it look like the argument against the film is sexist. Reduce the opponents argument to make them look childish and bigoted.
They arguing like it is reddit but forget it have to make money back somehow
I think the worst part is that there's a good shot this is a satire subreddit but I really can't tell because the people who do say this stuff unironically do these arguments. If it's bait congrats to the poster you got me hook line and sinker.
All the circlejerk subs claim be satire. They're too dumb to know what that means lol
Is satire seriously turning into "I made myself the Beefy Doge and you the Wimpy Doge, aren't I clever"?
Memes are one thing, but the "satire" claims are a bad attempt at avoiding criticism. You see it with gaming circlejerk a lot, they start mass brigading and hating other subs & streamers, encourage doxxing and bullying, and all kinds of other heinous shit. When you call them out on it they always parrot "Uhm actually we're a satire sub and it's all jokes so you're not allowed to criticise us for anything"
Even if they were just jokes, you can criticise jokes as well (unless they think that all comedy films, regardless of quality, are immune to criticism). Besides, the best satire has an understanding of what they're satirising (and usually an appreciation as well), when memes like this just turn the other side into a strawman so they can feel good about a 'win'. And yes, the fact that these subreddits go out of the way to harrass, disparage and in the worst cases wreck the lives of those they consider 'enemies' while at the same time claiming to be the poor underdogs fighting the good fight is genuinely disgusting, and a big part of why genuine discourse (where both sides attempt to at the very least understand each other's perspective) is so hard to come by nowadays.
> “Any community that gets its laughs by pretending to be idiots will eventually be flooded by actual idiots who mistakenly believe that they’re in good company.” >— René Descartes
It’s like the OT had good writing. Remember when fans have been saying Andor sucks because it has a latino lead and a lesbian couple?
Also, are we to believe that audiences in the 70s were going to be *more* accepting of a clan of lesbian space witches and gender theory?
Original was charming with good Themes . The writing and dialogue could be all over the place .
This. I love the original, but the writing, and particularly the dialogue, was a mess. I'd still give it a 10/10 though, cause its a joy to watch from start to finish as long as your not coming into it looking to critique everything, but rather just to have fun.
Some nauseating comments on that post, some users on this site read into things wayyyyyyy to hard, the idea of a sect of the star wars could be "fascist" because they don't like the new shows/movies, or like the Empire is such brainrot I can only eyeroll with exasperation every time I see it
The CIA (or NSA, or whoever) turned on The Devil’s Machine in earnest around the time of Wikileaks to “control the message” and it broke a lot of people’s brains. You’re either an ally or a nazi even if it’s about your favorite ice cream flavor.
I saw this posted in circle jerk and this was my response, funnily enough no one is too keen to engage with you when you provide irrefutable evidence they are wrong. Yeah haha let’s pretend it’s bigotry and make excuses for the bad writing. It’s not like we have precedents of strong female characters that had their own storyline’s that the fan base adored….. oh wait a fucking minute Leia Skywalker, Ashoka Tano, Mara Jade Skywalker, Asajj Ventress, Bo-Katan Kryze, Hera Syndulla, Jen Erso, Darth Talon, Satele Shan, Bastila Shan and many others. Pull your heads out of your ass. It’s bad writing. I’m all for more diversity in TV shows, I’m a white dude, I like having relatable characters and I feel like everyone should have the ability to easily relate. If we need to do that with race and sex representation then not a problem. But you don’t get to pretend you are making good media just because you are appealing to a certain race, minority, sex or culture. If you make a shit piece of media then just own up to it and do better next time but these so called creatives in charge of Star Wars currently are fuelled by rabid people like you lot that seem to want nothing more than to cause division. You guys are more to blame than people like Kathleen who are actually making crap. In acolyte for example they have a fucking fire in space, which is possible but the gas source that is powering the flame would come from one spot, it should look like a flame thrower. Even it’s not safe to do practically it’s not like we don’t have CGI. Instead they opted for a standard open flame that is actively reacting to the oxygen in the air even though the scene is set in space. It would have been cheap but you still could of wrote around this if you had managed to somehow create a bubble of atmosphere but you still keep the main character in a suit meaning there isn’t one. The majority of people aren’t upset because if diversity or female characters, we are upset because this kind of half assed work can somehow pass for good writing and it makes the franchise we love and care about look like shit.
Yeah that’s why I always hated Star Wars. Too many ladies 😂 /s Do these people all just have the weirdest friends who they think are the norm?
Reminder that this is the same SubReddit where if you say, "people loved Princess Leia in the originals" as an argument about how certain [strong] female characters from the 70s and 80s are beloved, what's different now; they'll then tell you OG fans were upset and didn't approve of them back in the day and it took nearly forty years to get recognized.
It’s a simple matter of asking about why people Like Padme in the prequels or Jyn Erso in the Disney era. Or like 50 other women characters like Ashoka or Sabine.
Why do they think this supposed flip in attitudes occurred?
Jesus Christ this has to be the biggest gaslight in the history of movie/film If these people exist, which I’m starting to doubt that at all, but if they do, they are not even a single percent of the Star Wars fandom, let alone a percent of the critics
They exist. You just don’t notice them in real life because they only have the balls to talk so much shit when it’s anonymously from far away.
[удалено]
You got me backwards, friend. I’m talking about the people who created the meme.
oh bruh sorry 😭😭😭 Man I just wrote allat to look like a retard
Haha! Happens to the best of us.
I find it interesting how circlerk subs that are made with the intention critizing the circle jerking in fanbases end up being some of the most egregious circlejerks themselves.
I guess we're just no match for The Power of Mmaaaannnyyy.
I love that garbage derivative writing is now being boiled down to “girls yucky.”
Current top comment over there: > A lot of Star Wars "fans" don't seem to realize that their ideology is actually most in line with the Empire.
It is a well know fact that people hated having Leia on screen /s It’s absolutely mental that the idiots in pretty much every subreddit lack the capacity to understand why lore and continuity matter. If you buy a franchise with an established lore and you want to tell new stories in said franchise, you should make sure what you write doesn’t contradict what’s already there. I’m sure there are tons of people with knowledge of Star Wars who’d be thrilled to work as lore masters. It also helps when you tell compelling stories people can relate to, instead of whatever the Acolyte is
Yeah. People who believe in this Meme don't belong anywhere except in a white padded room.
I think a lot of people talk about the bad writing and terrible character writing. I also think there is dumb people who only look at the symptoms of the changes (some good some bad) more diversity both gender and race wise. People see that and correlate it to the bad story telling hence the random out of pocket racial and gender comments.
I know in the 70s, everyone *HATED* Leia.
The top comment is so ironic if the dude believes a word he's saying.
Typical infinitum ad absurdum argument.
Woke ideology falls the nanosecond arguments stop being misrepresented.
There was that thumbnail of the somewhat popular youtuber with him pointing out how there weren't any boy padawans
Yeah clearly the problem is that the audience is racist and misogynist.... Let's check the white men led box office hit of last weekend... ops, it's 2 black guys and a latino as the main heroes 🤷♂️
Lol the Empire was always popular, probably more popular than the rebels. Remember the Imperial Remnant or the Fel Empire
"A circle jerk subbreddit. You will never find a more retched hive of scum and villainy. We must avoid it."
It takes a certain amount of stupidity (not even balls) to turn to an absolutely massive fandom of 40+ years and say “all of you are wrong”.
I can't believe we all mass hallucinated Princess Leia. Must be all the chemicals they put in the water.
They just going to ignore one of the most badass female leads ever? Ok.
OP if that were the case; why do all of the major YouTubers and fandom sites always frame their critiques about "the message," "girlboss," "girlbrand," "DEI," and "wokeness" And not about characterization, plot strutucture, narrative flow, themes, pacing.
These people seem to forget that Andor exists. And has two pivotal scenes that convey the exact same message they keep insisting A New Hope embodied.
Also when was Star Wars ever about equality? Not saying it’s about the opposite, but there wasn’t shit about equality in the OT. The premise of the movies was literally that a talented chosen one stepped up and helped solve a problem that a large rebellion had so far been unable to solve. Literally just Great Man History the Movie, and I don’t mean that in a bad way
Not a big Star Wars guy. Only really watched as a kid. But Padme, Leia and Asoka are all beloved characters as far as I know. The problem is not and never has been women being in the films. It's that people would rather be told a story than told what to think. And it's incredibly odd to bully and shame people for having qualms with the fact that you're using their beloved entertainment as an opportunity to advertise your social concerns. Alot of which aren't concurrently bad. A lot of which you are happy to preach against but not practice against. Not misogyny. But Anti-Authoritarian Rebellion.
It’s all they have, no one can truly defend this garbage show. I know straight shills on IG who are refusing to hype it up. One even said the, “even I can’t defend this.”
I keep getting recommended this subreddit and I honestly rather get banned then ever see it again
If you want to stop people from saying you hate the show because of women, then stop saying it sucks because of “woke” like many of you like to say. Saying the writing is bad is perfectly legit . Just stop using “woke” as an insult because it makes you look dumb.
Honestly I sorta agree that the word woke is stupid because it's just become more or less yet another buzzword, but to counterpoint maybe you should actually try to understand what people are saying instead of hyper focusing on the fact they said a word and interpret the worst based on it. When most people use the word "woke" they criticize how multibillion dollar corporations are trying to objectify and weaponize identity driven politics as a means of trying to dismiss and demonize anyone who dares to criticize them. Yeah there are idiots that do the idiotic "Oh they got a gay? Woke." Much like there are idiots that hyper obsess over their sexuality to a cult like degree to the point that it consumes their whole personality. That doesn't speak for the whole and it's disingenuous stereotyping to say it does.
Fair or not, it’s the reputation the word has. It’s kind of like how you might have no racist intentions when using the n-word, but if you use it a lot of people are gonna assume you’re racist. On another note, corporations are trying to demonize everyone who disagrees with them. Corporations only worship money, so anything performative they do is purely cynical and in the name of profit. They don’t actually care about the wellbeing of gay peoples. THAT’s what the criticism should be. But using “woke” just makes people assume you’re part of the problem.
Funnily enough most people who criticize the corporations for it and stuff like that get roped into the "antiwoke" crowd anyways so it's not like it makes that big a difference. All I'm saying is understand the neuance of it.
the fact that they actually think being a fan of star wars in the 70s was about being anti-emperialism shows they have lived with brain rot their entire lives.
It's not even good deflection. They completely ignore all of the valid criticisms and zero on on something that usually isn't even said. They also completely ignore the sheer volume of examples of good, well written, or at least fun female characters, including several from Star wars itself. It's disingenuous and stupid but gets circle jerked around.
That sub is a complete fucking joke.
Not like people thought Leia was cool fully in spite of her dumb cinnamon roll hair style.
Excoriates now why we hate the Star Wars sequels. The majority of them hate it cause it was a horrible Star Wars trilogy. Nobody cared Jinn Urso was a chick and that movie was awesome Nobody cared princess Leia or padme was a chick and they were heroes too! Even mon mothma has her own massive following Stop protecting these people they are not being oppressed. They just don’t know how to make good Star Wars content No one is not watching the acolyte cause there are chicks in it or blacks and Asians. If the world was racist black panther would have bombed immediately But no just because I don’t like this garbage and just because 90 percent of Star Wars fans don’t like Disneys garbage doesn’t make us homophobic transphobic racist or sexist. Who gives a crap what skin color you are? But if the shows sole intent is to please 5 percent of the world (and then they attack the 95 percent who don’t like it) then Disney is the common denominator not the fans
Thinking that anyone that saw the OT thought anything more than 'cool space battle' or 'she's hot' is hil-lar-ous.
Well they also thought "I've just analyzed the plot in all its details and have come to the conclusion that it contains no plot holes and is therefore well written - I'm now officially becoming a fan and will have an expectation of future installments to live up to the same standards", other than that yeah lol
The OT?
But of course
But there are plot holes in the OT.
I'm going to be uncharacteristic and say: OOP is overshooting the mark. The writers of Disney Wars are (among many other problems) generally too focused on inclusion (often under the false assertion that it wasn't there already). Shit like the half second Lesbian kiss in TROS is worthless and insulting, and people making claims like "X is the first female villain" in 2024 is ignorant as all hell and sweeps dozens of incredible antagonists under the rug. There are and have always been some genuinely Synthetic Man type idiots out there mad that WAHMENS are in their movies and they can go fuck a cactus, but a lot of fans are acting in good faith and are perfectly right to be upset It is absolutely true that (as always except for glorious Andor) ideals of revolution, equality, anti imperialism, as well as understanding of governance and politics in general take a back seat. The OT and Prequels were not perfect at this but they were much better than now. The New Republic is worthless and uninspiring, and watching anything set during the imperial period is blighted by the idea that everything the characters do is basically in vain. This has to come with a ton of caveats: inclusion and even race swapping are absolutely not bad inherently (Shawshank is awesome and Freeman killed it), no matter anyones demographics or ideology illogical writing is still a problem, Disney is ultimately a company that is trying (badly) to make money and not socially engineer anything, more inclusion is not the direct or sole cause of less idealistic politics. And to reiterate: the Synthetic Man people are out there, they absolutely fucking suck, but you have to look past them to the rest of the fans. Otherwise all we can do is shriek at each other from across a chasm and achieve nothing. If you can't stand watching a Mauler video to test this, [Sheev Talks](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=McR_P9izG5M) \[I promise this video is short of half an hour\] might be a better entry point for you if you want a perspective that's critical of modern Disney Wars but is very firmly outside the "wokeness is ruining everything" camp. [Gaming Magic 13](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlKvQxtlrQ8) also makes [long form videos](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r8OdcH3-uf0) and I strongly recommend him as well.
Funny how the people who comparing about Star Wars fans being upset are using imperialistic tactics for force acceptance.
I mean... I've quite enjoyed the Acolyte. It's not A New Hope, Empire Strikes Back, or Andor, but its probably in my top 5 star wars shows/movies so far. Despite that, hours before the episode had aired anywhere in the world, episode 4 of Acolyte had tons of 1/10 reviews on every review site that opened itself up for review submissions prior to the episode airing. I fully understand that not everyone has the same tastes as me, I've had people tell me they genuinely did not like The Empire Strikes Back and I consider that as close to a perfect movie as a movie can get, but the evidence I'm seeing from reviews suggests that the majority of people giving it bad scores haven't actually watched it and are just hating on it for things unrelated to the quality of the show itself. So, are all the people who say they don't like Acolyte just misogynistic or racist, I doubt it, but there does seem to be strong evidence thats where a lot of the hate is coming from, which leads to people making posts like that one in response to THOSE kind of "fans".
If this doesn’t represent you, move on. It’s weird to get defensive of it ngl.
I'm really glad this shitty subreddit recommended me a post, linking a funnier one. r/StarWarsCirclejerk just got a new member.
Why are you people pretending that people weren't being sexist/racist/homophobic/etc before the show came out? They were being racist when the initial casting first came out. This same exact thing happened to John Boyega when the first trailer for The Force Awakens came out. Stop obfuscating the point.
"A few people on the internet said something racist about the show therefore literally everyone who criticizes it is racist." Get an actual argument. Even if every character was a straight white man in that show it'd still be dog shit through and through. The only reason why they even have diversity in that show is so they can weaponize morons who hyper obsess over that stuff into defending their mountain of sewage. And you say we obfuscate the point lmfao.
I see you put that first part in quotes. Can you point to where I made that argument? That everyone who criticized the show was racist? I said why are people pretending like there aren't racist attacks based on the initial casting alone? Which there was. I haven't made a single comment regarding the quality of any show or many.
The whole point of my post is mocking people who are portraying everyone criticizing the show as over the top bigots just because they're criticizing a bad show and your comment is you taking their side and saying I'm "obfuscating the point" and making the argument that a handful of people said something racist once they're right. Maybe stop giving the small handful the attention of the entire world next time.
Because you people pretend that that's the issue. When someone says 'hey this show's writing is bad because of these specific things. This plot hole, this terrible dialogue, this retcon, this convenience, etc....Noone is going 'woah why are you being such a bigot'? That is NOT happening. What IS happening, is someone will make a video 'Nerdrotic, Critical Drinker, Geek + Gamers, Heelsvsbabyface, RK Outpost, Knights Watch, etc' and they'll spend a very small amount of time talking about these specific issues, which are valid criticisms, but they'll make 6 other videos complaining about 'THE MESSAGE' or wokeness or diversity or 'strong diverse female protagonist'. If you have a valid criticism of the show, why do you have to use the phrase 'strong diverse female protagonist' 20 times in a video. Why is Critical Drinker counting all the black and woman characters in a trailer? Noone is calling MoistCr1tikal racist or sexist and he's made two videos Criticizing the show. John Campea has made multiple videos talking about how bad the show is. Noone is calling them bigots because they don't mention 'diversity, wokeness, etc' in their videos...because that's not a valid criticism. Just like when the Obi-Wan Kenobi tv show came out. Moses Ingram posted screenshots of multiple racist DMs she got after the show aired. Disney came out and said "There are more than 20 million sentient species in the Star Wars galaxy, don't choose to be a racist"..and then you lot came out and were like 'woah what the heck? I guess we're all racists if we don't like the show.' Which is obviously not what they said at all. It's disingenuous, dishonest, and pathetic. THAT is obfuscating the point.
Except these people do say that you're racist for pointing it out. https://www.reddit.com/r/Highrepublic/s/IMzhLgggco here's a post doing that exact thing referencing an article spouting the same bullshit as a form of vindication. The Moses Ingram situation is a perfect example because people who defended the show used it to generalize anyone who dares to criticize the show and now they've been doing it again and again and again. It's gotten to the point that even the heads of these companies themselves are saying it. Amazon did it with Rings of Power, Ubisoft is doing it with the new Assassin's Creed game (and a few others they've done), Naughty Dog did it with TLOU2, people at HBO did it with Velma, and Disney does it with virtually everything they've made in the past few years. The sole reason why Disney even bothers with diversity hiring is so they can weaponize it to dismiss criticisms against them. It's been proven several times Disney will actively refuse to hire people based on their race due to it not being "inclusive enough," between leaks from current and former employees. People like Drinker don't point out the race and gender and sexuality of these characters and actors because he's a bigot he does it to showcase how these people are objectifying and weaponizing these people for when they get criticized and holding double standards (which if you ask me is very bigoted to begin with). If Drinker was seriously a bigot I don't think he'd praise movies shows and games like Furiosa, Arcane, The Last of Us show (even said his favorite episode was the one that focuses exclusively on the gay couple with the gay sex scene in it), Blade, RRR, Cyberpunk Edgerunners, Predator, Prey, Oldboy, The Last Samurai, Alien and Aliens, Terminator 1 and 2, Squidgame, M3gan, Bad Boys Ride or Die, Edge of Tomorrow, Bullet Train, The Queens Gambit, Gran Torino, Train to Busan, House of the Dragon (as well as early Game of Thrones), Andor, God of War Ragnarok, Fall, The Descent, Godzilla Minus One, Cabrini, or several other titles I've missed him talking about/can't remember off the top of my head. But in order to actually see that you'd need to, you know, actually watch and listen to what he's saying and not blindly view him as this alt right caricature that people display him as just because they don't agree with him.
I mean let's not pretend there aren't people that are pissed that a woman has a lead role lmao
There were people pissed that the OT had a male hero. They made the sequels about it.
Andrew Tate fanboy type people have frankly always been around it's just people only chose to give them attention because they look to be offended. I'm sure there were people back in the 70's bitching about Leia being a badass or something but history have shown the majority of men LOVE movies and shows with great female leads and characters like Kill Bill 1 and 2, Jackie Brown, Silence of the Lambs, Terminator 1 and 2, Million Dollar Baby, A Nightmare on Elm Street, Matrix, Halloween, The Fifth Element, Mad Max Fury Road (and from everything I heard Furiosa is also great but sadly it's just not doing well box office wise). The argument is that EVERY SINGLE PERSON who hates this stuff hates women. It's a bad faith argument with no actual backing outside of stereotyping people they hate.
And? They are not the majority, not even the vocal voices.
To be fair, are we gonna act like there aren’t fans who are sexist?
Mate if you dig deep enough just about anywhere that people are you're gonna hit a sewage pipe eventually. The problem is that the argument is that literally anyone who criticizes anything of new star wars garbage is labeled as one.
Star Wars has always had bad writing. It's literally a meme at this point.
The Acolyte has made it so apparent how big of pieces of shit the incels Star Wars has attracted over the years are. I'd 100% rather see the series keep doing exactly what they're doing, if it means misogynistic halfwits aren't going to like the same thing I do that's just an added bonus.
Yeah nothing says "I'm a misogynist" like defending a series that is heavily influenced and defined by powerful and important female characters and criticizing shitty nonsensical retcons lmfao.
The cameo of Mundi is strike 1, there hasn't been one other retcon or actual issue until that episode. All there was for the first 3 was a mob of lemmings shouting the same pedantic moron statements over one another without any substance. They stroke their own confirmation bias second only to how much they stroke to their headcannons and imagined George Lucas versions that never even existed in his head. But feel free to flail around with the same futility every one of those pedantic morons displayed in trying to explain all the gaping issues that don't exist. Mundi is strike 1 and considering that I don't care all that much.
The whole show is a retcon in it of itself. The first sighting of a sith wasn't until Phantom Menace when Darth Maul attacked. Anakin was the only time a person was conceived through the force, and the show is written by people who are openly admitting they are trying to portray the Sith, an evil corrupt imperialist slave harboring genocidal regime, as misunderstood good guys. Not even mentioning that the force is now apparently "threads that some people can pull on" and not an "energy that flows through all things" or even midichlorians (I would assume normally that's how the tribe would view it but given literally everything else about the show I doubt it). Also, George Lucas did have massive of lore in forms of novels that take place before the Prequels and after the Main trilogy. They aren't making stuff up "headcannons and imagined George Lucas versions that never even existed," they are literally saying "Hey, this makes zero sense and completely breaks the lore." But seeing how the creator has openly stated that George Lucas himself doesn't even know how Star Wars works and are claiming they're the only ones that do and that thinking George Lucas, the man who literally invented Star Wars, does is misogynistic. Again, literally her own words. https://youtu.be/aaeQoPnixNU?t=436 But no they're the morons and bigots. It's not like you're denying any form of reality or factual basis and stereotyping an entire group of people to justify your hatred against them. Oh wait...
.... God dude that was hard to read. I'm gonna try to answer everything in order, feel free to ask for more details on anything because I'm just gonna go quick. They don't know it's a "Sith" other dark side 'religious sects' exist, like the witches themselves. The Jedi believed the Sith extinct, like Canaanites in the Bible. They would have still presumably seen a red lightsaber or dark side force sensitives that aren't connected to the Sith in that time. Guess we'll see with the whole "immaculate conception" but I'm betting that's not the whole truth. Was prolly 1 baby that they made twins or something else, but you'll have to wait for the reveal. Insane to say they're casting the Sith as 'good' or whatever when the Sith guy is orchestrating murders, and concerning the witches, we still don't know what they were up to. Was it despicable enough to cause the Jedi to kill them? Maybe, or maybe the Jedi killed them because they made the mistake of thinking all who draw on the dark side are as evil as the Sith, hence the guilt in Torbin. Again, guess we'll see. That's just how some cult leader is describing the force dude. Don't be thick. What, she should have been citing jedi scrolls? Facepalm. George Lucas is a fat old man who sold the franchise, they'll use some of his ideas and they will use some ideas that are not his. Many of the ideas from Star Wars EU were better than Lucas' own ideas, some weren't. He didn't like some of the EU and some of it he did. He wasn't a genius bro I'm tired of hearing about him. Most of the people who hate on this show are morons and/or bigots. I've seen them proudly admit to the bigotry and repeatedly offer up the poorly thought out arguments you made here. So in your case I know you're a moron, you definitely don't have a problem with the bigots who you sit in the echo chamber with, so maybe just a racist apologist? But lmk if you'd like to be taught about Star Wars a little more, like I said I'll provide more details about the ways you're wrong if you'd like.
Incredible. You just proved literally everything I mentioned previously and yet you still think you're right. Absolutely outstanding. I'm genuinely amazed. I mean you don't even get basic details about the show correct, the Jedi don't kill the witches it was the twin who did after she started a fire in a house because she had a hissy fit her sister would become a Jedi and the witches all died because of it. And of course you prove my point I was making the whole time to top it off by proving that people who defend the show simply go around blindly accusing literally anyone who talks bad about it as bigots. And of course you ignore the creators themselves saying they think the Sith are good and want to make them the good guys. 
Hey guess what they explicitly state he's a sith in the new episode. Meaning they know it's a sith. Once again, you are wrong. Whomp whomp. https://preview.redd.it/f1dbdp02iv8d1.jpeg?width=1076&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=286033aeffa6d796c95163b0a7a52032b1d54c29
Hey guess what, we all knew he was a Sith lmfao when did I say it wasnt? but the Jedi literally all got killed aside from Sol. So you pretty much still have to be a retard to think this is a continuity issue whomp whomp 🫤 That episode was garbage tho, such a fucking bad 'surprise'. I was in my head pleading "don't be Qimir" but we all knew it was Qimir. Anticlimactic garbage choice on that.
It 100% is a continuity issue because what a bunch of Jedi die and they think nothing of it? They don't think that's a concern or suspicious at all? Also it goes entirely against the rule of two the sith hold to. At this time I think it would have just been Plagueis and Teneborous at this time. So who trained Qimir? It doesn't make sense. Also my bad I misread this part of the paragraph. I thought you were arguing on how it could not be a Sith. Although realistically I feel they would still assume it based on how the Sith act and fight as opposed to other dark side wielders. Like Qui Gon knew Darth Maul was a sith based on his combat prowess alone when they first clashed. https://preview.redd.it/c8mglmggex8d1.jpeg?width=712&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=5ca00356ec053215894a4e3c97f4e9e09ecab3ef
Now just so you don't get confused and say something stupid and embarrassing again, it *could* become a continuity issue if Sol goes straight back to the order and tells them he encountered Sith. Until specifically hearing him say he is Sith even Sol would have considered that a wild assumption, and wouldn't have known, that was what I patiently explained to you before. Now Sol knows, so if he let's the Jedi know, and by extension Mundi, that is a massive fuck up.
I already explained it in the other comment but there being a third Sith at this time is a bug fuck up and Mundi shouldn't even be conceived yet, so him being there is already a fuck up lmfao.
Is the "bad writing" in the room with us right now
People don't know what bad writing is. They just think it's something they don't like rather than being objective about it.
Is the bad writing in the room right now? Also, 'you can type this shit, but you can't say it.'
It literally is in the room when star wars is on the screen
Are you one of those characters that takes everything super literally for comic effect, cos that's just bad and lazy writing.
Talking about bad, lazy writing, it's comedic effect.
This post is ironic because it's unintelligible.
Cope.
I love watching your arguments devolve into buzz words that feel like you picked them out of a fedora.
Read a math book, 'cause you can't spell or count. Go ahead, have the last word. I'm sure it'll be fresh and original, and not at all another dusted off, hackneyed response.
Do people frequently accuse you of just mentioning buzz words instead of using actual arguments then? I really have no idea what you mean by my needing to read a book on maths or your suggestion that I can't spell. As far as I know books on mathematics don't teach you how to spell but I'm happy to hear about where you got that impression. And do please give me something to respond to rather than just providing a string of baseless accusations cos that's my kink.