As a dedicated e tron player, what makes you say that? Many players have been trying to cut the [[reality smashers]], playing higher curve cards like little Emmy or ulamog, or land finding cards like tablets. I’m not sure if anything leaked yet replaces [[matter reshaper]], but it’s getting a wee bit long in the tooth as a four of. Seen a lot move down to three. It’s much more been an issue of the midrange eldrazi package simply not being good enough, even with the tron shit behind it.
And it’s not like tron is slowing the deck down much. You’re running four [[expedition maps]] to support tron and, what else am I missing? No tron would also probably cut you off from some of your bigger k4rn bombs. Basically, if you’re cutting tron for a color, other than TKS (maybe MR), all of your midrange eldrazi will have to come from this set. I think after mh3 people will be playing eldrazi tron with most of the old midrange eldrazi swapped out for new ones/titans, not playing the old eldrazi with the tron portion swapped out. That’s just my supposition, though.
This is ok in etron? With all the new less expensive eldrazi, the new sol land, and the new untap desert, having a huge top end in e tron might not be too bad. Getting to 8 in etron is much more feasible than 10 I think.
Thats not the question. The question is: You have 8 mana, what card do you want to play (and therefor have in your deck)?
Is your answer really Breaker of Creation?
And you’re going to have eight mana on turn 4, as opposed to having 7 on turn 3. So picking a 7 drop is the better move over an 8 drop a lot of the time.
So, how do you beat this? I mean, the obvious answer is just kill your opponent, since it doesn't win them the game right away. Seems like a good tron sideboard card for some matchups for sure.
If you’re a creature deck, you tank the annihilator 2 and block with 4 power worth of creatures. The first one is very beatable, but it’s like Archon of Cruelty; it puts you way behind on card advantage/board advantage/life total, so the second one is way harder to beat, and the third is basically impossible.
I wonder if people are overrating this a bit initially just because it primarily makes Tron *even better* against the things it already stomps on. Targeted removal for their threats has never really been an awesome plan for beating Tron.
Sure, Path-ing Wormcoil is good. But the flipside is that this is just insanely worse than Wormcoil in an aggro matchup if your opponent doesn't have Path (or other removal that dodges the dies trigger).
Wormcoil comes down on turn 3, either fogs everything the enemy has on the ground or gains 6 when they swing, then swings to gain you 6, and is resilient to removal, though less so than this.
This comes down on turn 4. It gains life unconditionally, but it'll usually be four or maybe five if you play it on curve. And then it just sits around being a pretty bad blocker because it has 4 toughness. If you swing with it, the aggro player sacs two lands then kills you on the backswing.
Don't get me wrong, it's far from a bad card, but to me it feels like an awkward middle ground that is neither as good at stabilizing as Wormcoil nor as good at delivering unbeatable value as your bombs. I could see it maybe snaking a spot over Ugin, but even then being able to wipe the board will be better than the lifegain a significant chunk of the time.
I suppose that's true. I think it's too slow against Burn, too. I don't have enough reps on the deck to know exactly where this fits in, but I'm sure that it's going to see play.
I think most creature decks just want to attack into this. The first one probably only gains 4 or 5 life, so you're probably still in range of lethal (and it's not like Tron is putting any pressure on you to make you respect the back swing). But, yes, the second one or Wormcoil into one of these is pretty goddamn brutal.
There are a multitude of cards that destroy non-basics or destroy target permanent, people just dont run them. Nor do people run damping sphere. The only more efficient option is wasteland, which will never be safe for modern.
I don't know if Tron's problem is really "I'm not gaining enough life once I have assembled Tron." we already have [[Thragtusk]] and it sees essentially 0 play in current Tron sideboards and it can be played a turn earlier where the life gain is more relevant in bad match ups like burn. It's still a pretty big bomb so there's always potential, but I'm really just not sure if this really slots into the current iterations of Tron or even E-Tron.
That being said two months from now I might be eating my words and look really stupid for posting this.
I don't disagree that this feels a bit awkward against something like Burn, but the card feels too good to not see play, and it fits the role very well by being better at the offensive side than Thragtusk. I'm sure people will try it and give a definitive answer of if it is going to stick around or not.
Well Tron no longer ever needs to sideboard Thragtusk anymore. This is better than Ugin at 8 mana against many decks. Not getting hit by Force of Negation is huge, and gaining some life against Subtlety/Counterspell might buy you a whole extra turn.
By the numbers on MTGGopdfish, Thragtusk is in three total Tron lists split with one G Tron list and two other Tron lists, of which I can't actually find the specific lists because they're so buried - it's only visible on Thragtusk's card page. If you go to Tron's page, Thragtusk is nowhere to be found.
Looking at mtgtop8, Thragtusk is in 32/893 (3.5%) lists from the last year across all play levels.
So yes, some players may still have it in their list that they haven't seriously updated for years or as a niche meta call, but it's not a reasonable thing to expect a Tron player to have. You should be surprised when you see it.
Oh and only 2 of those lists don't have it in the sideboard, which was the topic of conversation to start with.
Isn’t the sb thragtusk to get around blood moon? You can play thragtusk with forest + 4 lands. You can’t even play this with 8 lands due to the colorless requirement.
It was one use case, but Boseiju and Oblivion Stone>TOR>crack Oblivion Stone made that redundant. The main reason pre-Karn GC Tron played Thragtusk was for the burn matchup as a way to not just die to burn damage or Path/Smashing Smitherines on your Wurmcoil. Most Tron payoffs can’t interact with the Burn game plan in any meaningful way.
I think this might be getting overhyped a bit. Yes, this is very hard to remove. But what deck is beating Tron because it 1-for-1s their threats with targeted removal? If you compare this to Wormcoil, it is a significantly better closer, but it'll be worse at stabilizing a lot of the time. Wormcoil deters attacks better and will likely gain more life than one of these even if it only gets to hit once. And on the other end, this is not as nasty as the high-end threats Tron can play already.
It’s more for Eldrazi Tron or whatever version of Eldrazi tribal we can make playable. Green Tron has better options, but in a deck with Eldrazi Temples, Ugins Labyrinth and Heralds I can see this being playable.
E-Tron edges ever closer to being playable again. I’m happy.
I think the Tron package just makes the Eldrazi deck worse tbh. I would just play 8 sol lands and some colors instead.
Green for Ramp and then you don't need to worry about it.
Yeah, the new 4 drop devoid eldrazi that tutors a land can just get another temple/lab on turn 3 on cast and that's insane.
which one?
It's one of the leaks, Sowing Mycospawn
Thanks, i totally skipped that part of the text and only looked at the kicker.
Yeah, it tutors a land on play on a cast trigger, it's kinda nuts
As a dedicated e tron player, what makes you say that? Many players have been trying to cut the [[reality smashers]], playing higher curve cards like little Emmy or ulamog, or land finding cards like tablets. I’m not sure if anything leaked yet replaces [[matter reshaper]], but it’s getting a wee bit long in the tooth as a four of. Seen a lot move down to three. It’s much more been an issue of the midrange eldrazi package simply not being good enough, even with the tron shit behind it. And it’s not like tron is slowing the deck down much. You’re running four [[expedition maps]] to support tron and, what else am I missing? No tron would also probably cut you off from some of your bigger k4rn bombs. Basically, if you’re cutting tron for a color, other than TKS (maybe MR), all of your midrange eldrazi will have to come from this set. I think after mh3 people will be playing eldrazi tron with most of the old midrange eldrazi swapped out for new ones/titans, not playing the old eldrazi with the tron portion swapped out. That’s just my supposition, though.
[reality smashers](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/2/52d4b652-a830-4fd4-94bb-c17c227f2928.jpg?1562911843) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Reality%20Smasher) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ogw/7/reality-smasher?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/52d4b652-a830-4fd4-94bb-c17c227f2928?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [matter reshaper](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/3/8/38e6e9aa-2e5f-49f7-beef-b876c070d72d.jpg?1690003915) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=matter%20reshaper) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/cmm/806/matter-reshaper?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/38e6e9aa-2e5f-49f7-beef-b876c070d72d?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) [expedition maps](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/5/5/551c0a45-9515-4e51-84e5-79703832a661.jpg?1646666270) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Expedition%20Map) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/2xm/255/expedition-map?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/551c0a45-9515-4e51-84e5-79703832a661?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
This is bad in Tron. Source: tron player for 10 years.
This is ok in etron? With all the new less expensive eldrazi, the new sol land, and the new untap desert, having a huge top end in e tron might not be too bad. Getting to 8 in etron is much more feasible than 10 I think.
I think its definitely better in E Tron.
Thats not the question. The question is: You have 8 mana, what card do you want to play (and therefor have in your deck)? Is your answer really Breaker of Creation?
And you’re going to have eight mana on turn 4, as opposed to having 7 on turn 3. So picking a 7 drop is the better move over an 8 drop a lot of the time.
If I have 8 mana I'd like to play my boy Eugene, the Spirit Dragon. The best card in the deck.
So, how do you beat this? I mean, the obvious answer is just kill your opponent, since it doesn't win them the game right away. Seems like a good tron sideboard card for some matchups for sure.
If you’re a creature deck, you tank the annihilator 2 and block with 4 power worth of creatures. The first one is very beatable, but it’s like Archon of Cruelty; it puts you way behind on card advantage/board advantage/life total, so the second one is way harder to beat, and the third is basically impossible.
Yeah, there's definitely plenty of ways to beat this card. It's going to be a strong role-player against more fair decks, I think.
I wonder if people are overrating this a bit initially just because it primarily makes Tron *even better* against the things it already stomps on. Targeted removal for their threats has never really been an awesome plan for beating Tron.
Eh, targeted removal can sometimes buy you enough time to close out the game. Path on wurmcoil is an old example.
Sure, Path-ing Wormcoil is good. But the flipside is that this is just insanely worse than Wormcoil in an aggro matchup if your opponent doesn't have Path (or other removal that dodges the dies trigger). Wormcoil comes down on turn 3, either fogs everything the enemy has on the ground or gains 6 when they swing, then swings to gain you 6, and is resilient to removal, though less so than this. This comes down on turn 4. It gains life unconditionally, but it'll usually be four or maybe five if you play it on curve. And then it just sits around being a pretty bad blocker because it has 4 toughness. If you swing with it, the aggro player sacs two lands then kills you on the backswing. Don't get me wrong, it's far from a bad card, but to me it feels like an awkward middle ground that is neither as good at stabilizing as Wormcoil nor as good at delivering unbeatable value as your bombs. I could see it maybe snaking a spot over Ugin, but even then being able to wipe the board will be better than the lifegain a significant chunk of the time.
I suppose that's true. I think it's too slow against Burn, too. I don't have enough reps on the deck to know exactly where this fits in, but I'm sure that it's going to see play.
I don’t think it’ll really see much play. This or Karn liberated? It’s an easy choice.
I think most creature decks just want to attack into this. The first one probably only gains 4 or 5 life, so you're probably still in range of lethal (and it's not like Tron is putting any pressure on you to make you respect the back swing). But, yes, the second one or Wormcoil into one of these is pretty goddamn brutal.
Edicts, Dress Down, Ceremonious Rejection, and hopefully WotC printing some reasonable interaction for Tron lands.
Someone will say that break the ice is fine (it’s not).
There are a multitude of cards that destroy non-basics or destroy target permanent, people just dont run them. Nor do people run damping sphere. The only more efficient option is wasteland, which will never be safe for modern.
I guess black Flare and similar edicts
I don't know if Tron's problem is really "I'm not gaining enough life once I have assembled Tron." we already have [[Thragtusk]] and it sees essentially 0 play in current Tron sideboards and it can be played a turn earlier where the life gain is more relevant in bad match ups like burn. It's still a pretty big bomb so there's always potential, but I'm really just not sure if this really slots into the current iterations of Tron or even E-Tron. That being said two months from now I might be eating my words and look really stupid for posting this.
[Thragtusk](https://cards.scryfall.io/normal/front/b/e/beda7acd-e970-4222-9577-5133765d6052.jpg?1673484842) - [(G)](http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?name=Thragtusk) [(SF)](https://scryfall.com/card/ncc/316/thragtusk?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher) [(txt)](https://api.scryfall.com/cards/beda7acd-e970-4222-9577-5133765d6052?utm_source=mtgcardfetcher&format=text) ^^^[[cardname]] ^^^or ^^^[[cardname|SET]] ^^^to ^^^call
I don't disagree that this feels a bit awkward against something like Burn, but the card feels too good to not see play, and it fits the role very well by being better at the offensive side than Thragtusk. I'm sure people will try it and give a definitive answer of if it is going to stick around or not.
This limited format is going to be…interesting
Sheesh this is nuts
Well Tron no longer ever needs to sideboard Thragtusk anymore. This is better than Ugin at 8 mana against many decks. Not getting hit by Force of Negation is huge, and gaining some life against Subtlety/Counterspell might buy you a whole extra turn.
My friend, Tron has not been on Thragtusk in the sideboard for years at this point
I wish my opponent from two weeks ago knew this. I wouldn't have lost to that damn Thragtusk!
By the numbers on MTGGopdfish, Thragtusk is in three total Tron lists split with one G Tron list and two other Tron lists, of which I can't actually find the specific lists because they're so buried - it's only visible on Thragtusk's card page. If you go to Tron's page, Thragtusk is nowhere to be found. Looking at mtgtop8, Thragtusk is in 32/893 (3.5%) lists from the last year across all play levels. So yes, some players may still have it in their list that they haven't seriously updated for years or as a niche meta call, but it's not a reasonable thing to expect a Tron player to have. You should be surprised when you see it. Oh and only 2 of those lists don't have it in the sideboard, which was the topic of conversation to start with.
Isn’t the sb thragtusk to get around blood moon? You can play thragtusk with forest + 4 lands. You can’t even play this with 8 lands due to the colorless requirement.
Karn great creator helps you play the game through blood moon. thrag hasn't been a thing for so long.
It was one use case, but Boseiju and Oblivion Stone>TOR>crack Oblivion Stone made that redundant. The main reason pre-Karn GC Tron played Thragtusk was for the burn matchup as a way to not just die to burn damage or Path/Smashing Smitherines on your Wurmcoil. Most Tron payoffs can’t interact with the Burn game plan in any meaningful way.
the one ring gets around bloodmoon
I think this might be getting overhyped a bit. Yes, this is very hard to remove. But what deck is beating Tron because it 1-for-1s their threats with targeted removal? If you compare this to Wormcoil, it is a significantly better closer, but it'll be worse at stabilizing a lot of the time. Wormcoil deters attacks better and will likely gain more life than one of these even if it only gets to hit once. And on the other end, this is not as nasty as the high-end threats Tron can play already.
It’s more for Eldrazi Tron or whatever version of Eldrazi tribal we can make playable. Green Tron has better options, but in a deck with Eldrazi Temples, Ugins Labyrinth and Heralds I can see this being playable.
Perfectly healthy. Totally ok.
Absolutely. Unless you’re on Eldrazi Tribal it’s usually worse than Wurmcoil or Cityscape Leveler.