In general, women have higher standards. They expect their partner to meet or exceed their own social standing. Men, again in general, are not as picky about if their partners are as smart/talented or rich as they are, they are more concerned with beauty. Some men even prefer partners to be below their social standing because it gives them some measure of control in the relationship.
Let me reiterate that is a gross generalization and not nearly true for every individual.
I am not dismissive of evolutionary psychology or biological differences as I think they are important in mating habits. But I do wonder how much of women's desire for partners on equal or greater standing is truly biological. I don't think it's entirely social, but there are real limitations to men being capable support partners. It definitely happens, but plenty of men are socialized that they must be a provider. Women can be open to marrying down, but why would they do so if they aren't going to get the benefits men ostensibly get from marrying someone in a lower social standing? Do high status women really have a preference for a high status partner, or is the market of low status men unable to meet their needs for companionship, child care, and support for the female partner's career? Ostensibly, when marrying down, these supports are what men get (though there are plenty of examples of this going awry for men). Do women?
I’m going to mention the thing Reddit hates: human biology and gender differences.
Males of many species are geared towards finding healthy females that they can breed with, that means they look for physical characteristics. Females of many species tend to seek a provider. This translates into our culture of women seeking educated, wealthier men while men are looking for girls with nice bodies. It doesn’t hold completely but there’s a reason both men and women find it emasculating for the woman to earn more in a relationship.
Edit: thanks for proving me right immediately
Men also get stressed out when the woman earns more than them.
Not every individual man, but statistically.
https://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/20/study-men-get-more-stressed-when-their-wives-make-more-money.html
https://psychcentral.com/relationships/when-women-earn-more-than-men
https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/uk-world-news/three-five-men-wont-date-7204116
https://fortune.com/2022/04/06/gender-pay-gap-inequality-women-earning-more/
Marriages where the woman earns more than the man are more likely to end in divorce
That doesn’t contradict it. Statistically speaking, marriage is extremely beneficial for men: they live longer, are healthier and have less domestic responsibilities than single men. Women however don’t have those perks. If both are working usually it is still the woman doing more household stuff (so it’s not a leap to think it might include divorce filing as someone has to even if they both agree on the divorce). Anyway, as an example, I wouldn’t see the benefit of coddling someone moping on the couch that they feel emasculated by earning less than me while claiming to be unable to complete any housework and would reconsider the relationship; but he has less reason to leave.
I know women (traditional ones) who put up with bad husbands because they were brainwashed into keeping up their marriages. They earn more than the men, and the men have the audacity to question them when they wear the pants around. The men sit around and just waste their time.
Yeah my mom’s side of the family is extremely religious and while I love them and really do enjoy time with them, me being a 24yo single male is really weird to them. I started getting questioned why I wasn’t married at 18 from my younger cousins who’s only been exposed to people marrying young and starting large families. My aunt had her first child at 15yo and was married as soon as it was legal. Surprisingly she’s still happily married to the same person 50 years later.
This statistic is also influenced by the fact that men won’t file even if they’ve moved out and are living with their new baby mama.
Or they’re the one who says they want a divorce but are too lazy to file the paperwork.
That’s because most of the people who appeal to biology are shitty prescriptive people who think men and women HAVE to or ALWAYS act a certain way. There are a lot of factors that influence human behavior and we are not bound to follow set roles.
That said, of course biology IS a factor and it is fascinating to study.
Very true. There are billions of exceptions to the rules, and the impact of “nurture” on the human brain is just as much of a factor as “nature.” Look at how abuse can shape a person’s expectations.
I think it's also important to note that most people who claim to appeal to biology are actually appealing to evolutionary psych and traditional evolutionary psych is incredibly flawed and increasingly found to be, quite frankly, a crock.
And yes, actual biology IS indeed fascinating to study, especially when we peel back the layers of misogyny that color the more traditional and outdated theories.
Can you explain what exactly is wrong with evolutionary psychology?
It makes perfect sense that like everything else, our behaviour is shaped by our evolutionary history. Not exclusively of course, I personally don't believe in the nature vs nurture debate because both are probably equally important. So evolutionary psychology won't provide all the answers, but it's still a valid field in my opinion.
Reddit is weird…loaded with atheists and science aware people that pretend we didn’t evolve over hundreds of thousands of years to look for traits that signify fertility and genetics in the ladies and protection and tribal status in the males. Sure society has taken some of that out of us over time but when you’re dealing with base instincts like attraction it’s coming out to some degree…
It's definitely true that culture plays a role in what we find attractive (in the West we consider thin women to be beautiful, but in some places in Africa they consider fat women to be the beauty standard). However, I think it's more accurate to say that culture determines the signals used by people to *show* that they're biologically fertile. For example, being fat was attractive during a time of food scarcity, but now thin is attractive because it tends to correlate with better health.
Only three things are found universally attractive across cultures: Youth, health and clear skin, which sound to me just three different ways of saying health.
Source is a half remembered documentary I saw 20 years ago, so take with appropriate amount of salt. The updated science may say something slightly different, but it seems the basic premise that a few things tightly associated with health are universally attractive, while the rest is up for grabs likely still stands.
As long as the cultural bias has some parallels with biological traits people are willing to accept they are one in the same. Sure, males might prefer a biologically fit female to breed with, but what culture has taught us that a biologically fit female is is likely not really the case. Also, male "providers" might also not reflect biology if it's a sociopath that has wealth because they disregard everyone else to grt ahead and subsequently have children and then leave them when it's not convenient for them. Culturally the wealthy male is most "fit" to be a provider but that's a small part of the whole picture.
It's also that human biology and gender differences, as the person above deacribed it, is a cornerstone of some fringe groups that most of Reddit doesn't like. Red Pill, Incels, Pick Up Artists, etc.
Doesn't make it true or untrue of course, but a lot of people have a bad taste in their mouth when the subject is brought up at all, and there's a suspicion that anyone who does is engaging in bad faith or trying to push one of the above ideologies.
i think the earning more thing is more of a learned reaction. Or at least I know people that have wives that make more than them and it isn't even remotely a issue. In fact in every case they are quite happy that she does at my work at least.
Or it could just be a testosterone thing the more aggressive males the more they feel they have to provide and be the bread winner. Unless I am just completely wrong on both accounts which I am fine with.
I make more than my partner. I was raised, that as a guy — I have to support myself.
I can support myself, and a partner easily, so it’s not stressful if she doesn’t work. She can just do whatever she wants lol.
As long as she’s happy, I’m happy. And money doesn’t matter because I’m independent.
—-
A really fucked up way to look at it, but great for comparison is a pet.
I don’t need a puppy to have a job and provide income. All the puppy has to do is bring joy to my life, and I will gladly shelter, feed, and take care of the puppy.
To a lot of men with money, women are kinda like that. They provide joy, and a man can afford it. Win win for all of those involved.
That’s the price of a transactional relationship. People give up puppies who bite or damage property.
Which is also why I encourage women to be financially independent. All people should strive to at least be equal and not look for handouts.
Puppies sacrifice their freedom for convenience.
... I'm so glad I didn't grow up rich, sounds like miserable way to engage with romance 😬
(no shade to you and yours of course! glad y'all are happy, *that's* the name of the game right there... my last comments are referencing men who really do view it as a tranactional pet-like relationship, cause thats nasty)
I was using puppy because I was trying to sound cute. But an adult dog would be more realistic.
There’s responsibility on both ends. A good man should know what kind of woman he wants to be with. And a good woman should know what kind of person she is. And the reverse also true!!!
Most people don’t change over time. So find the perfect match before marriage or cohabitation. Most people don’t 180 change half way through.
i was raised as a boy, taught to be the breadwinner/provider, then when i didn't have a natural inclination toward it mocked and made fun of for being too "girly." my dad would be ashamed of me now - i'm actually in a pretty good position in life compared to where i started (which, yeah, "homeless and disowned 16-year-old" isn't hard to beat, but i could be doing a LOT worse), but since i'm not the primary breadwinner and i use crutches to get around i'm *obviously* just a failure and a disgrace to people like him.
my actual gender aside, even i still feel like i've failed because i'm not the primary provider. obviously i know that it's not *actually* shameful if my partner makes more than me, and i would totally be proud of them and keep my "boohoo you're in a better position than i am" to myself if they got a better job or promotion, but i would still feel that shame.
it's how a lot of men are socialized, and i think the guys who are more "aggressive" about it are generally the type of guy who are like "alpha male nice guy" types. it probably affects most guys, or people who were raised as guys, but it's just not as in-your-face - it's more the feeling of incompetency, as far as i've observed of normal dudes. living with that feeling is uncomfortable, so they seek out women that aren't a "threat," whether by conscious choice or just subconsciously. heck, i've done it, i've been in a relationship with someone and by the end it was obvious the only reason we were together was because he wanted me to keep paying for his things so he didn't have to work.
Eh I was raised by guys and taught to be a breadwinner, even now I’m literally working towards that career he wanted as me taking over as a partner of his firm but I’m just there for the money, degree, and when I get married I made it clear to my gf that if she wants kids I stay at home. Really my dream job is stay at home spouse where I can pursue my creative interests of writing, painting, and model building with no kids. I already have a degree and am pursuing my CPA but I just wanna write and if I had to work I’d want to teach AP US history in high school or US history as a basic course in college. I’m currently banned from pursuing those fields due to a wet reckless but when I can get it off my record I plan an pursuing that if I’m working
Sorry you had to go through that. It sounds like that shame from what I read with you was taught though. Even if a person isn't directly taught by there parents there is still societal pressure.
Keep in mind that in the US, women couldn't have bank accounts or credit cards on our own until a few decades ago. If we wanted a job we were severely limited to secretary, nurse, and teacher for the most part. If we aren't as focused on finding a man with money any more, it's because we finally have other options.
Reddit is good at creating circle jerk echo chambers. This makes the people who all agree with each other convinced they are right regardless of evidence to the contrary.
However in humans there is also the fetish layer that seem to trump all else for the parapheliacs among us. You'll learn early in life that it's futile to wait for that super attractive, rich person who also happens to enjoy eating salted, cured meats during sex.
Actually males in other species have a more holistic selection process. Chimpanzee males have shown a preference for older females. A female chimpanzees fertility declines less sharply with age. (Grandmother hypothesis for women)
Its an unfornate adaption that creates the irony of the half of the most intelligent species being willing to have a surgeon cut off their face and sew it back on to shave a decade off.
Also resource accumulation didn't exist in the environment of evolutionary adaptedness. Money (and education) is just a heuristic for a certain worldly competence. That is why in couples where the woman does more the man often is doing something of a certain value in the given society.
I like the disclaimer at the end, lol! Just to stop the "not all police" gang from chasing you down . It is sad that you have to explain to people that when people talk in General terms they are talking for 70-80% of the population not 100%, but if you did not have the disclaimer I know someone is going to jump saying. " I know of a lady that only dates guys who are shorter and make less money than her, not all woman are hypergamy."
This is a great generalized answer. There are numerous studies that indicate how resources (like education) or male availability indicate how partners form. In some cases attraction is also based on resources. Or how big someone was, today larger breasts are more appealing to men with lower social standing as it suggests access to resources they may not have. Again generalizations as there are always exceptions.
I think women are less concerned about someone who comes from the same social standing. The big difference is can you act like you fit in at different levels. I grew up in a lower middle class family in western Massachusetts. No family money, no fancy name or pedigree, but I've been at social events with people whose incomes average in the millions and not been out of place.
That being said a LOT of people don't have that flexibility.
It’s been true for all of human history. Women date across and up the social hierarchy, and men date across and down. Women have always had to be picky because becoming pregnant and caring for a child takes a ton of energy and time.
With that being said I’m actually dating a woman who is older than me and makes more than me (both high income) and I asked about splitting a dinner and was called cheap😂.
Some dudes start to get... weird when you're more educated and make more than they do. It wasn't a problem in my twenties when everyone is in roughly the same stage of figuring life out. But at 40 things are different.
The top answers are all focused on how women are more choosy and have higher standards. While I'm sure that's part of it, there's always been a big group of men who won't date a woman who is:
- Taller than him
- Wealthier than him
- More educated than him
- Older than him
- More physically active or even stronger than him
All of these are fine preferences to have, really. But let's not pretend the selection is only going one way.
• Taller than him
• Wealthier than him
• More educated than him
• Older than him
• More physically active or even stronger than him
Literally everything I want in a woman lmao.
Tbf it’d be awfully flattering to have someone that’s wealthier, more educated and more physically fit, interested in me… also would be nice to just be bending over to grab something from a low shelf and my partner starts fondling my unit. I mean honestly if you don’t consider the misogyny being a woman sounds pretty great
Here’s my question though. On average, would a woman with the characteristics described above date that man? In my experience, yes while men do select for preferences, often times it’s much looser compared to women.
He might still date her, but many make off hand comments. As a woman who is tall and a high earner, I've dealt with plenty of men who dated me but still made shitty, insecure comments. They didn't last long. Ain't nobody got time for that. It's not that I wasn't willing to date someone who was shorter than me or earned less, I just wasn't willing to put up with verbal abuse.
That being said, not all men are insecure babies and I've had plenty of great partners that were shorter or made less than I did.
I'm not saying that isn't true or doesn't happen. And I'm not necessarily saying women *aren't* choosier on average with these characteristics. All I'm saying is that it's a two way street.
The street is two way but the traffic is mostly in one direction.
https://ifstudies.org/blog/on-internet-dating-sites-women-prefer-men-with-higher-incomes-and-more-education#:~:text=for%20romantic%20partners.-,Women%20are%20much%20pickier%20than%20men%20in%20their%20choice%20of,are%20disproportionately%20preferred%20by%20women
This is unfortunately true. I went to a top-10 school on scholarship and guys older than me (10+ years) think it’s cool/hot that I’m well-educated, but guys my age ask where I went to school and often have a chip on their shoulder for the rest of the conversation 😅 I loved school and was good at it, but academia isn’t the only way to be smart. One of my best friends dropped out of college and they’re one of the smartest people I know when it comes to street smarts, social skills, and being able to fix anything.
That said, insecurity and trying to cut me down is deeply ignorant behavior. If you are going to be salty that I got a solid education, I don’t want to be friends with you - let alone date you. When I see someone who’s more advanced than me in a certain area, I think it’s awesome and I ask a lot of questions to learn from them. It’s not a competition and we can all learn from one another. Pride and ego to the point of projecting your insecurity onto others is incredibly annoying and unattractive.
I’m an old, and I remember watching a SATC episode where Miranda went to a speed dating event. She got zero interest when she was truthful about being a lawyer. Then she switched to stewardess, and suddenly guys were super interested Lol
OMG that’s so funny and I can totally see it. It’s definitely a pride/ego thing. They want to feel like they’re “bringing something to the table” and their job is the best metric for them to feel that way.
Anyone who feels threatened by someone else and not inspired by them is just not someone I want to date or befriend, tbh. Relationships aren’t transactions, they’re partnerships IMO (and some people view them as transactional but then we are not compatible).
I think it’s also a perception that women are supposed to just putz around and do nothing at their jobs. That makes it easier for a man to imagine interrupting it with children or home demands. But when they hear “lawyer,” their brain immediately starts calculating how much laundry they’ll have to do, and they don’t like it
Unfortunately, it is a common situation when dating men. I think it's for security reasons, if they're not above you, somehow, the more competition they feel they have in order to compete or retain you. If the only thing you have above a guy is your looks, he gets the premium he wants without having to form actually desirable qualities by overriding that with the most practical necessity: Money. For many women, money seems to works as a white-out for many problems the guy could have or as a blanket for his lack of growth for a length of time so long as his money eases their quality of life. The day it doesn't, the rose colored glasses provided by his financial advantage are gone, so the guy gets seen as he's always been. This ends up surprising the guy who got used to the money blinding his partner and is now exposed by the "glasses" falling apart. I think it's why many seem uncomfortable by now having to put in the work the money covered for them and find it easier to start over by fooling another naive: Money avoids accountability and effort.
Reminds me of what my Nana used to tell me: If you wouldn't live with a particular guy for FREE, don't entertain them AT ALL. She'd say she rather be shot than deal with that, that the shot would be far more mercy than playing caretaker to a lazy character for the rest of your life. This was the way to truly change things, to let nature take care of the course itself.
I don’t make a lot of money intentionally, if that makes sense - I seek out work exchange/nonprofit positions because I’d rather die than go back to corporate, lol. I make enough to live on and don’t really care for more. Tbh men tend to treat me more like an equal than like a “traditional” woman in terms of gender roles. I get called “intimidating” more at 30 than I ever have because I don’t need a man’s approval to validate me (or a certain amount of money, or owning a home, or any other external item) and have no issue saying so.
Older men are usually like “that’s awesome” but younger men sometimes feel in competition with me or threatened if they are less secure. Some older men are gross if all they have to offer is money, though - one guy I barely knew offered to sugar daddy me, I said no thanks, and later he texted me to slut shame me 😂 logic is not logicking there. I know many good guys but what they have in common is they’re all secure in themselves as people or if they’re not, they don’t project their insecurities onto others.
I mostly date other graduate students who are sorta in my boat and we feel more mentally compatible (plus they don’t care so much about money either since grad students don’t make a ton, you generally do it if you actually care about your field). The few times I’ve dated a man with a real Career™️ they were pretty shallow financially. No more doctors or lawyers for me, we are just not compatible.
I really don't understand that as a guy, so what if they do? You don't get with someone for their social status/earnings etc (in general), but because you *like* the person, sure social status and that are factors, like most people wouldn't date a homeless person for example, but it's not the main reason why, at least to me, I know there are people who do, but as you say, it's a weird parameter to take into account
it matters what social circles you run in.
any partner i have would face significant scrutiny from my family and cultural circles if she wasn’t well educated or had a somewhat decent career.
we value education especially very highly.
so you can be an academic or wealthy. rich stock broker? fine! passionate researcher with a phd! also fine.
but not doing well in your career and or education is seen as a personal and familial failure. what went wrong with you. do you lack ambition. are you not good enough. so on.
It's social. I've been hard "no!"'d by partners parents even though I make more money than the parents themselves.
Race and how you climbed your ladder come into play too. And, the hard fact is, most women don't care to marry a man their family would not like.
Just some guys 2 cents,I think is because we're told since we're kids that girls want someone taller,more successful.....so a lot of guys just think that long term them being lower socioeconomically will become a problem
I think the work a less educated man has to do to make a decent living,( construction, trade jobs, mechanics,) would have this person working away from wealthy women.
Yep.
Electricians pair up too. My bf and I are both JIWs. He encouraged me to apply to the apprenticeship a year after he started. But there are plenty of couples that I've met.
Exactly. People think that nurses marry doctors, but what usually happens is that doctors marry doctors and nurses marry tradesmen, firefighters, paramedics etc.
This used to be true before women could hold jobs that required higher education in greater numbers. For example, women struggled to become doctors so they became nurses. Doctors tended to marry nurses. Similarly, executives married their secretaries. However, this has changed:
[https://ifstudies.org/blog/a-record-share-of-men-are-marrying-up-educationally](https://ifstudies.org/blog/a-record-share-of-men-are-marrying-up-educationally)
It used to happen because of barriers to entry for women for higher level jobs. Men had fewer choices but to marry women with less education in the past.
Most people, in general, prefer to marry people of equal standing and they have greater success in their marriages if they do so. That being said, men tend to value beauty and youth more than other qualities in women and are more willing to accept a woman of less status than them to get those qualities because they tend to think other men hold them in higher esteem for being able to attract a physically appealing mate. Women tend to value men who are competent and capable of independent living as they don't want to be left to care for a man as if he were a child. That means they want men who are as good or better than them in terms of education, earning power, and status.
>Women tend to value men who are competent and capable of independent living as they don't want to be left to care for a man as if he were a child.
That’s a good point. An educated woman who had a hot unemployed husband 10 years younger wouldn’t get high fives from all of her friends for being able to attract such a hot husband. No one would be jealous of her.
In scientific research this is called the marriage gradient. Man on average is a little better off. It’s not quite a joke that no one wants the least successful men, or the most successful women.
It’s also women being choosier. I think it’s spelled out in Freakonomics that more successful a women is, the choosier she becomes.
Meanwhile the book stated, in online dating, men valued a woman with blonde hair as the equivalent to a college degree lol. Male policemen did very well, apparently because they had positions of power.
I was going to ask exactly that. Are there? Or are we confusing "highly educated men who are married to low educated women" with "Men who dropped out at 17 married with women who dropped out at 14"? And what about weighing the numbers according to the local demographics regarding how many women actually get to study past high school?
In my personal experience, some men start getting insecure if women are smarter than them. And sometimes smarter can equal to having a better job and more income. So now she’s smarter AND wealthier than him. If he’s raised to think men are smarter and are breadwinners, then he thinks he has no purpose in life so he does other things to gain control - cheat or abuse.
Linking an [article](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/why-bad-looks-good/202005/are-female-breadwinners-at-greater-risk-for-spousal-abuse?amp) here that discusses a study that showed there was a substantially higher risk of abuse when a woman was employed but her male partner was not. Likewise, women were at a lower risk of spousal abuse if she and her male partner were employed.
I want to see the stats on abusive mens job retention. I'd bet that people with impulse control issues are less likely to be employed, and that also would impact earning ability.
Depends on the type of abuse. If they have general anger management issues then employment is less likely. However, abuse is often scarily calculated and concealed. Those might be permanently employed
Pregnancy destroyed my body. Gained a bunch of weight, hair went gray, stress and anxiety were not good for mental health.
At least my wife got to push out most of the weight she gained...^^/s
Discrepancy in levels of education is irrelevant if a couple has authentic interest in (and respect for) the other person. And communicate well.
Also, intelligence and higher education are not equivalent.
People love to downvote the “men can’t handle an educated woman” thing, but…
I’m a teacher, and in every group of teacher friends I’ve had, there’s been that one husband who can’t stop bringing up that he didn’t go to college. We’ll be sitting in a restaurant, and nobody is focused on this dude at all, before he starts this speech about how he’s the only person at the table who didn’t go to college, and he thought about it, but didn’t want to go into debt, but thank god he makes more at his trade job than us teachers do, blah, blah, blah.
Some dudes are massively insecure about the education thing, even if they are still the breadwinner. I’d imagine even more men would be insecure if their wife really did bring in the majority of the income also.
I've heard guys like that before, and my response is usually "well good for you that your job didn't literally REQUIRE you to go into debt like mine did." (I'm also a teacher).
Dang. I love hanging out with my wife's friends who all have PhDs (including her), they always have interesting takes on topics that are outside my field (I have a BS, they're all social scientists).
This isn't really true anymore. Look at anyone who graduates college they are much more likely to marry someone who also graduated college. In the 1950s a male doctor would marry a nurse now they are more likely to marry another doctor or lawyer.
> In the 1950s a male doctor would marry a nurse now they are more likely to marry another doctor or lawyer.
… because women weren’t doctors and lawyers in the 1950s
This is true yes a male dr is more likely to do this, but its not universally true of all male Drs.
The point is a female dr has an even higher tendency to marry a male of similar professional status than the male dr has.
I work with a lot of professional, advanced degree women and this is definitely NOT my experience. I know several female doctors, dentists, and lawyers who are married to men who lack both success and ambition.
One of my good friends is married to a man like that, at least in the lacking career ambition part. He has a job, it pays okay, but she’s a doctor/professor at a hospital.
He’s kind and cares for her deeply, is the primary parent to their children, and the housework is pretty well balanced between them. Her job is demanding and his isn’t allowing them to reach a lot of their shared life goals together.
He's giving her far more than a lot of men typically do in those situations NGL. He's overriding what is typically loaded on the woman by helping her do the parental aspect way more than the typical man does as well as easing the home maintenance. I wish I were joking that a lot of men say they do that but genuinely don't. From your writing I quickly got this guy does and likely does more even. When I tell you that guys like that are like the single strand of blonde hair in a silo of hay, he is.
Oh absolutely. He’s a gem and I love them both. My sister OtOH was the primary breadwinner for a guy who couldn’t keep a job, then decided to pursue his passion - skydiving - while quitting his other jobs and mooching of her and not really contributing much at home either. For a long time, she’d talk about his potential. Then he hooked up with some other skydivers, would be gone for days, and eventually broke up with her. He was the insecure guy, pressuring her to quit school as she was furthering her career.
This is generally what I see in these relationships. F that.
Yeah. I’ve seen this fairly often as well in my social circles. The wife is the breadwinner and does all of the childcare and does all of the household chores. The husbands are either unemployed or underemployed.
It’s much more common in my experience than situations in which the husband is a stay at home dad who cooks, cleans and actually puts effort into raising the children.
People are out here trying to explain this as some sort of genetic, biological, or preferential reason. The biggest factor in this is the massive gap in education that have existed between men and women historically. It's only been in the last couple decades in which the education gap between genders has closed.
The amount of highly educated men to "low educated" women has historically been skewed. The odds of a woman being more educated than a man were, for a long time, really low. So they would have to encounter that situation and then also be compatible for marriage. Whereas it was very easy to encounter a scenario where the man was more educated which meant there were more opportunities for them to be compatible.
Women can take care of themselves financially now. That's one of the reasons we needed feminism. Because society was structured to keep women dependent by denying them economic autonomy. Fuck patriarchy.
Not really. For most of history, humans have been hunter gatherers or farmers, and women and men worked together with all the other able bodies members of their family or tribe to provide for themselves and their loved ones. Women not doing paid work while their male partners provide the money is a pretty recent and short lived thing that was never possible for most working class families, i.e. a majority of the population.
No, not really. Until only very recently in history, the average woman had little to no choice in whom they could marry and they didn't have the option of getting a formal education. It wasn't about what women wanted, it was about the role in which they were forced to exist. Also, in regard to sex, there are a lot of references in early civilisations to women being the more sexually "deviant" and, well just from my own experience, women definitely want sex.
You learn that you have to be selective after being sexually harassed multiple times, after being threatened when you reject someone, after feeling unsafe because you’re alone with someone larger and stronger than you who is coming on to you, after receiving the millionth unsolicited dick pic after saying hello, after having to block someone who won’t leave you alone, after meeting up with someone only to realize they think women aren’t people, after realizing your friend is only your friend because he thinks he can sleep with you, etc…
Oh believe me me ex wife's parents made sure they brought it up regularly as well and still mention it to my children on occasion if hear them correctly. My wife's parents could care less. They are more concerned about how I treat their daughter and their relationship with my children.
I recall there was this song written by the great contemporary poets Cardi B, and Megan Thee Stallion called "WAP". In it, they state their innermost beliefs, such as: "Broke boys don't deserve no pussy (I know that's right)."
Take care.
From my dating experience as a highly educated woman, and from the experience of female friends in my position, men are just intimidated.
Seriously, men on dates have tried to belittle us to make them feel better about themselves.
Another reason may be that we are financially independent and just want an equal partner to share our lives with. A lot of men OTOH have been socialized to consider themselves the financial providers and may find it emasculating to find out we earn more than them. I've dated guys like that, it didn't last.
FYI, I currently have a higher level of education than my partner (which will hopefully soon change), and will likely always have higher earning potential than him. He is still the best partner I could ever hope for.
There are actual studies showing men feel less secure in a relationship when their female partners are succeeding so I think that has something to do with it
https://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2013/08/men-self-esteem#:~:text=WASHINGTON%20—%20Deep%20down%2C%20men%20may,Personality%20and%20Social%20Psychology®.
Maybe something to do with women in many cultures being prohibited from 'higher learning' until just VERY recently --- and still, in some cultures, they're restricted.
Check CURRENT grad stats.
A lot of it is going to come down to the kinds of men you find in the "low educated" pools. Many tend to be in the more conservative/macho/traditional camps due to social upbringing and those men can often be challenged by intelligence. I'm a man myself and I've dealt with men who seem to think that anyone exercising a wider vocabulary is just trying to show off or make people feel dumb.
Income can be a problem as well. Some men will be bothered by a wife who makes substantially more than them, again this is very common amongst those raised with a more "traditional" family viewpoint.
Many times well educated women have to make a decision surrounding motherhood and careers. A well educated man is more likely to care less about gender roles and would help more with childcare and that would allow a career-driven woman to have the time to focus on their goals.
Common interests in life are also a big deal for a solid relationship. If you've ever tried to enjoy an art museum while in the company of someone who clearly has zero interest in art, it's pretty impossible. While you're glancing over a few paintings and considering the time period and historical perspective of the artist, they're sighing repeatedly and scrolling on their phone.
because men don't find highly educated women as attractive compared to the reverse scenario... biology plays a roll but I think modern societal expectations/concepts of "emasculation" are mostly what's to blame.
Men are more socially valued for what they provide, in terms of money, while women are more socially valued for their appearance (a.k.a. fertility expressed through culturally defined standards of beauty). More education tends to increase earning potential. This favors men who are highly educated (**ONLY IF** that becomes a greater income).
Also, women I know who are highly educated prefer men who are their peers, while even highly educated men don't require their partner to be equally educated. These combine to favor highly educated men being with low educated women, not vice versa.
From what I've heard, ,many educated 30-40 year old women are single because they are searching for their male counterpart, but successful and educated 30-40 year old men are dating the 20 year olds.
This is a question that has been asked to women directly, and answered, for the last 10 years. Suzanne Venker, iirc, talks about this during one of her shows.
The short version? Hypergamy; the women, when asked, typically desire a man at least as accomplished as themselves. This translates to status and money/earning potential.
Op could likely ask women he knows that are college educated what manner of education they want in a mate, and find out for himself.
Women, in general, seem to have higher standards than men.
edit: I realize this could be construed as a criticism of women's standards, that's not how I meant it at all
Used to be, not as much anymore as women are more educated than men (US). Not enough men have education over women for that norm now: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5421994/
Thanks for posting the study! It is more aligned with what I intuitively thought. Interesting that the situation is trending closer to the opposite. I'll need to take a closer look at the study.
The rates of college attendance and graduation mirror's what it was in 1970, except women are the 65%, men are the 35%.
It has simply reversed. One can hope something is done to bring the genders to parity.
Because education relates to wages, and men are typically uncomfortable being with women who earn more. I've seen marriages fall apart when women become the breadwinner
Are there? Or are we assuming? I’m not saying you’re wrong, it *seems* like my observation, too. Until I actually think through a few dozen couples I know and realize I’m coming up with far more of the second option. Myself included. Maybe not *low* educated men necessarily , but *lower* educated than her.
The data in this article strongly disagrees with your question: https://ifstudies.org/blog/the-gender-gap-in-marriages-between-college-educated-partners
It shows that the vast majority of college educated individuals marry other college graduates. Like 65%. See figure 3.
"Highly educated" woman here... Nothing to do with security, money etc. I have my own money and security.
To me intelligence and intellect are very attractive qualities. Most highly educated men also tend to be typically more confident, gentlemanly yet assertive (that's my personal experience, I'm not generalising!), and again, that is something I consider very attractive.
The question sorta answers its self I think. But to paraphrase Scott Galloway: studies have shown Men marry same level or down, women marry same level and up.
I’m married to a man who graduated from high school. I graduated with a B.A. and continued for a masters. Intellectually, we are equal. He made very good money, as did I. We never cared about any opinion but our own and have been married for 50 years.
This is interesting. I am smarter and have more education than my husband. I was also the more attractive partner in our 20s and 30s. I like him for his personality and sense of humour. He's also very tall and I'm very small so I liked the protector vibe he gave off. He knows a lot about a lot and got a City job after high school with no need for post-secondary education. He has always made more money though because my college education has been for child care and now personal support worker.
I absolutely prefer educated women/women with a drive to learn and appreciate intelligence.
My wife of 10 years is a university grad with a handful of other related designations. I'm a 1 year community college grad. We're both in a job in our field and though I make just below a livable wage (for 1 person), she makes almost twice as much and continues to take courses and classes in order to make more. I couldn't be happier with her determination to provide us with a better life. If all goes to plan for us, I will someday be a full-time house husband.
I have a learning disability and over the years I've discovered conversation rather than lectures/reading is the best way I can absorb information, so school was always a struggle. Being able to talk passionately about a topic, knowing there is real thought behind it and can learn from them is attractive to me, regardless of the subject.
If all you can talk about is gossip and drama, or have no interests other than the new hot meme of the day, we're not gonna connect. I guess for me it's less about education and more about interests that don't primarily revolve around talking shit about people, or talking about shitty people. In those situations I'm often left waiting for them to make a point that never comes, and there's usually a handful of awkward silent seconds of me staring at them before I realize they're waiting for me to respond. Me "....oh! Umm..yeah. That (random social media stranger) sounds like a real piece of work! They shouldn't have said that!"
Well shit, my first girlfriend was waaaaay more intelligent than I am when I was at that age, she even helped me pass my GCSE maths. She fell prey to toxic friends
It seems that in general, not in all cases, men go for physical attraction and women go for stability.
I believe it’s actually instinct: in order for humans to succeed, males want offspring who are physically strong and women need to have a partner that can provide while she’s pregnant and then tending to a newborn.
A highly educated woman would instinctively look for someone who could provide the same standard they could provide for themselves.
Dunno, man. My wife has two Masters and a PhD, while I have a BSME. We chose to follow her career when shit went sideways in 2009, and I became her domestic support. I'm perfectly content with it, as is she.
Funny thing is, I'm better educated generally- my interests are wide while she focused in on her specialty. There isn't a power differential between us. I have abilities she lacks, while she's the earner.
Maybe we're the exception...
I’m “highly educated” and my man of 12 yrs is a contractor/project manager. I spent 6 years in school, 2 more for other degrees. My guy graduated high school and worked construction and never stopped. I had almost 100k in school debt and no job. My partner was making 100k…at 28!!! So, not all tradesmen are poor men. And not all highly educated women are wealthy! I was finally out of debt right before I met my guy!
I think to some men, they largely don't care what career level their female partners have. Highly educated women usually seek similar men so their male partners aren't intimidated.
I know a couple high percentile women. They are really smart, really funny, really attractive, high performers. 1 of the 3 is married and the other two are childless, without marital prospects and miserable. I hate that for my friends.
Women date up in terms of money (and so, smarts). Men date up in terms of looks and put-togetherness.
I’m generalizing obviously. But that’s what you’re observing.
Because finding an attractive woman with charisma is hard enough. Finding an attractive woman with charisma that is also smart is like hitting the lottery.
A woman wants a husband so she goes to the Husband Store. At the entrance there is a sign that says: The store has six floors, as you go up the men get better. On each floor you can either pick a husband from there or go up to the next floor. But you can't come back down once you've gone up.
So the woman goes in and on the first floor are good looking men. She thinks "I want more than this" and goes up to the second floor. On that floor there are men who are good looking and make a lot of money. Again she thinks "I want more than this" and goes up. She continues this until she gets to the sixth floor, where she encounters a sign that says: "Sorry, there are no more men, have a nice day"
Now, across the street, there is the Wife Store. Same deal. On the first floor are women who are beautiful and can cook.
Nobody knows what's on any of the higher floors.
In general, women have higher standards. They expect their partner to meet or exceed their own social standing. Men, again in general, are not as picky about if their partners are as smart/talented or rich as they are, they are more concerned with beauty. Some men even prefer partners to be below their social standing because it gives them some measure of control in the relationship. Let me reiterate that is a gross generalization and not nearly true for every individual.
To quote Mr Plinket, “Is she hot? No seriously bro how hot is she? And that’s it”
There's also the wise man's hot. It's called "lenient".
Your poor Canadian wife
I didn't say that I would be a wise man.
To tack on to this guy ; pretty pretty makes ooga booga.
Apes together strong
Ape alone... weak. Apes together... strong.
I am not dismissive of evolutionary psychology or biological differences as I think they are important in mating habits. But I do wonder how much of women's desire for partners on equal or greater standing is truly biological. I don't think it's entirely social, but there are real limitations to men being capable support partners. It definitely happens, but plenty of men are socialized that they must be a provider. Women can be open to marrying down, but why would they do so if they aren't going to get the benefits men ostensibly get from marrying someone in a lower social standing? Do high status women really have a preference for a high status partner, or is the market of low status men unable to meet their needs for companionship, child care, and support for the female partner's career? Ostensibly, when marrying down, these supports are what men get (though there are plenty of examples of this going awry for men). Do women?
It’s certainly social/cultural to some degree as well.
I’m going to mention the thing Reddit hates: human biology and gender differences. Males of many species are geared towards finding healthy females that they can breed with, that means they look for physical characteristics. Females of many species tend to seek a provider. This translates into our culture of women seeking educated, wealthier men while men are looking for girls with nice bodies. It doesn’t hold completely but there’s a reason both men and women find it emasculating for the woman to earn more in a relationship. Edit: thanks for proving me right immediately
Men also get stressed out when the woman earns more than them. Not every individual man, but statistically. https://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/20/study-men-get-more-stressed-when-their-wives-make-more-money.html https://psychcentral.com/relationships/when-women-earn-more-than-men https://www.cornwalllive.com/news/uk-world-news/three-five-men-wont-date-7204116 https://fortune.com/2022/04/06/gender-pay-gap-inequality-women-earning-more/ Marriages where the woman earns more than the man are more likely to end in divorce
> Marriages where the woman earns more than the man are more likely to end in divorce Majority of divorces are initiated by women though.
That doesn’t contradict it. Statistically speaking, marriage is extremely beneficial for men: they live longer, are healthier and have less domestic responsibilities than single men. Women however don’t have those perks. If both are working usually it is still the woman doing more household stuff (so it’s not a leap to think it might include divorce filing as someone has to even if they both agree on the divorce). Anyway, as an example, I wouldn’t see the benefit of coddling someone moping on the couch that they feel emasculated by earning less than me while claiming to be unable to complete any housework and would reconsider the relationship; but he has less reason to leave.
Women making more money take less abuse and shit from partners
I know women (traditional ones) who put up with bad husbands because they were brainwashed into keeping up their marriages. They earn more than the men, and the men have the audacity to question them when they wear the pants around. The men sit around and just waste their time.
Religion is a hell of a drug. At least, that is a common element in the trad wife rubbish.
Yeah my mom’s side of the family is extremely religious and while I love them and really do enjoy time with them, me being a 24yo single male is really weird to them. I started getting questioned why I wasn’t married at 18 from my younger cousins who’s only been exposed to people marrying young and starting large families. My aunt had her first child at 15yo and was married as soon as it was legal. Surprisingly she’s still happily married to the same person 50 years later.
This statistic is also influenced by the fact that men won’t file even if they’ve moved out and are living with their new baby mama. Or they’re the one who says they want a divorce but are too lazy to file the paperwork.
That’s because most of the people who appeal to biology are shitty prescriptive people who think men and women HAVE to or ALWAYS act a certain way. There are a lot of factors that influence human behavior and we are not bound to follow set roles. That said, of course biology IS a factor and it is fascinating to study.
Very true. There are billions of exceptions to the rules, and the impact of “nurture” on the human brain is just as much of a factor as “nature.” Look at how abuse can shape a person’s expectations.
I think it's also important to note that most people who claim to appeal to biology are actually appealing to evolutionary psych and traditional evolutionary psych is incredibly flawed and increasingly found to be, quite frankly, a crock. And yes, actual biology IS indeed fascinating to study, especially when we peel back the layers of misogyny that color the more traditional and outdated theories.
Can you explain what exactly is wrong with evolutionary psychology? It makes perfect sense that like everything else, our behaviour is shaped by our evolutionary history. Not exclusively of course, I personally don't believe in the nature vs nurture debate because both are probably equally important. So evolutionary psychology won't provide all the answers, but it's still a valid field in my opinion.
Reddit is weird…loaded with atheists and science aware people that pretend we didn’t evolve over hundreds of thousands of years to look for traits that signify fertility and genetics in the ladies and protection and tribal status in the males. Sure society has taken some of that out of us over time but when you’re dealing with base instincts like attraction it’s coming out to some degree…
A lot of what people say is attractive due to "human biology" actually has more to do with what their culture finds attractive.
It's definitely true that culture plays a role in what we find attractive (in the West we consider thin women to be beautiful, but in some places in Africa they consider fat women to be the beauty standard). However, I think it's more accurate to say that culture determines the signals used by people to *show* that they're biologically fertile. For example, being fat was attractive during a time of food scarcity, but now thin is attractive because it tends to correlate with better health.
There was even a measurable change in model sizes during the 2008 recession, it changes individually with food scarcity
Only three things are found universally attractive across cultures: Youth, health and clear skin, which sound to me just three different ways of saying health. Source is a half remembered documentary I saw 20 years ago, so take with appropriate amount of salt. The updated science may say something slightly different, but it seems the basic premise that a few things tightly associated with health are universally attractive, while the rest is up for grabs likely still stands.
I bet teeth are up there too.
As long as the cultural bias has some parallels with biological traits people are willing to accept they are one in the same. Sure, males might prefer a biologically fit female to breed with, but what culture has taught us that a biologically fit female is is likely not really the case. Also, male "providers" might also not reflect biology if it's a sociopath that has wealth because they disregard everyone else to grt ahead and subsequently have children and then leave them when it's not convenient for them. Culturally the wealthy male is most "fit" to be a provider but that's a small part of the whole picture.
What culture is finding non attractive not fertile women, Or broke weak men Attractive?
It's also that human biology and gender differences, as the person above deacribed it, is a cornerstone of some fringe groups that most of Reddit doesn't like. Red Pill, Incels, Pick Up Artists, etc. Doesn't make it true or untrue of course, but a lot of people have a bad taste in their mouth when the subject is brought up at all, and there's a suspicion that anyone who does is engaging in bad faith or trying to push one of the above ideologies.
i think the earning more thing is more of a learned reaction. Or at least I know people that have wives that make more than them and it isn't even remotely a issue. In fact in every case they are quite happy that she does at my work at least. Or it could just be a testosterone thing the more aggressive males the more they feel they have to provide and be the bread winner. Unless I am just completely wrong on both accounts which I am fine with.
I make more than my partner. I was raised, that as a guy — I have to support myself. I can support myself, and a partner easily, so it’s not stressful if she doesn’t work. She can just do whatever she wants lol. As long as she’s happy, I’m happy. And money doesn’t matter because I’m independent. —- A really fucked up way to look at it, but great for comparison is a pet. I don’t need a puppy to have a job and provide income. All the puppy has to do is bring joy to my life, and I will gladly shelter, feed, and take care of the puppy. To a lot of men with money, women are kinda like that. They provide joy, and a man can afford it. Win win for all of those involved.
until she doesn't want to be a puppy anymore... or "whatever she wants" ends up being "whatever she wants so long as I aprove"
That’s the price of a transactional relationship. People give up puppies who bite or damage property. Which is also why I encourage women to be financially independent. All people should strive to at least be equal and not look for handouts. Puppies sacrifice their freedom for convenience.
... I'm so glad I didn't grow up rich, sounds like miserable way to engage with romance 😬 (no shade to you and yours of course! glad y'all are happy, *that's* the name of the game right there... my last comments are referencing men who really do view it as a tranactional pet-like relationship, cause thats nasty)
I was using puppy because I was trying to sound cute. But an adult dog would be more realistic. There’s responsibility on both ends. A good man should know what kind of woman he wants to be with. And a good woman should know what kind of person she is. And the reverse also true!!! Most people don’t change over time. So find the perfect match before marriage or cohabitation. Most people don’t 180 change half way through.
i was raised as a boy, taught to be the breadwinner/provider, then when i didn't have a natural inclination toward it mocked and made fun of for being too "girly." my dad would be ashamed of me now - i'm actually in a pretty good position in life compared to where i started (which, yeah, "homeless and disowned 16-year-old" isn't hard to beat, but i could be doing a LOT worse), but since i'm not the primary breadwinner and i use crutches to get around i'm *obviously* just a failure and a disgrace to people like him. my actual gender aside, even i still feel like i've failed because i'm not the primary provider. obviously i know that it's not *actually* shameful if my partner makes more than me, and i would totally be proud of them and keep my "boohoo you're in a better position than i am" to myself if they got a better job or promotion, but i would still feel that shame. it's how a lot of men are socialized, and i think the guys who are more "aggressive" about it are generally the type of guy who are like "alpha male nice guy" types. it probably affects most guys, or people who were raised as guys, but it's just not as in-your-face - it's more the feeling of incompetency, as far as i've observed of normal dudes. living with that feeling is uncomfortable, so they seek out women that aren't a "threat," whether by conscious choice or just subconsciously. heck, i've done it, i've been in a relationship with someone and by the end it was obvious the only reason we were together was because he wanted me to keep paying for his things so he didn't have to work.
Eh I was raised by guys and taught to be a breadwinner, even now I’m literally working towards that career he wanted as me taking over as a partner of his firm but I’m just there for the money, degree, and when I get married I made it clear to my gf that if she wants kids I stay at home. Really my dream job is stay at home spouse where I can pursue my creative interests of writing, painting, and model building with no kids. I already have a degree and am pursuing my CPA but I just wanna write and if I had to work I’d want to teach AP US history in high school or US history as a basic course in college. I’m currently banned from pursuing those fields due to a wet reckless but when I can get it off my record I plan an pursuing that if I’m working
Sorry you had to go through that. It sounds like that shame from what I read with you was taught though. Even if a person isn't directly taught by there parents there is still societal pressure.
Obviously nothing is true across every relationship.
completely agree.
Keep in mind that in the US, women couldn't have bank accounts or credit cards on our own until a few decades ago. If we wanted a job we were severely limited to secretary, nurse, and teacher for the most part. If we aren't as focused on finding a man with money any more, it's because we finally have other options.
You were right based on comments below yours...
I’m just thankful that in real life I rarely run into the weird outlooks that the Reddit collective seems to have on topics like this.
Reddit is good at creating circle jerk echo chambers. This makes the people who all agree with each other convinced they are right regardless of evidence to the contrary.
However in humans there is also the fetish layer that seem to trump all else for the parapheliacs among us. You'll learn early in life that it's futile to wait for that super attractive, rich person who also happens to enjoy eating salted, cured meats during sex.
Actually males in other species have a more holistic selection process. Chimpanzee males have shown a preference for older females. A female chimpanzees fertility declines less sharply with age. (Grandmother hypothesis for women) Its an unfornate adaption that creates the irony of the half of the most intelligent species being willing to have a surgeon cut off their face and sew it back on to shave a decade off. Also resource accumulation didn't exist in the environment of evolutionary adaptedness. Money (and education) is just a heuristic for a certain worldly competence. That is why in couples where the woman does more the man often is doing something of a certain value in the given society.
I like the disclaimer at the end, lol! Just to stop the "not all police" gang from chasing you down . It is sad that you have to explain to people that when people talk in General terms they are talking for 70-80% of the population not 100%, but if you did not have the disclaimer I know someone is going to jump saying. " I know of a lady that only dates guys who are shorter and make less money than her, not all woman are hypergamy."
I’m concerned with beauty but man I’d be in heaven if my wife was as hot as she is and also earned more than me lol
This is a great generalized answer. There are numerous studies that indicate how resources (like education) or male availability indicate how partners form. In some cases attraction is also based on resources. Or how big someone was, today larger breasts are more appealing to men with lower social standing as it suggests access to resources they may not have. Again generalizations as there are always exceptions.
I think women are less concerned about someone who comes from the same social standing. The big difference is can you act like you fit in at different levels. I grew up in a lower middle class family in western Massachusetts. No family money, no fancy name or pedigree, but I've been at social events with people whose incomes average in the millions and not been out of place. That being said a LOT of people don't have that flexibility.
It’s been true for all of human history. Women date across and up the social hierarchy, and men date across and down. Women have always had to be picky because becoming pregnant and caring for a child takes a ton of energy and time. With that being said I’m actually dating a woman who is older than me and makes more than me (both high income) and I asked about splitting a dinner and was called cheap😂.
Some dudes start to get... weird when you're more educated and make more than they do. It wasn't a problem in my twenties when everyone is in roughly the same stage of figuring life out. But at 40 things are different.
The top answers are all focused on how women are more choosy and have higher standards. While I'm sure that's part of it, there's always been a big group of men who won't date a woman who is: - Taller than him - Wealthier than him - More educated than him - Older than him - More physically active or even stronger than him All of these are fine preferences to have, really. But let's not pretend the selection is only going one way.
• Taller than him • Wealthier than him • More educated than him • Older than him • More physically active or even stronger than him Literally everything I want in a woman lmao.
Proud hypergamist right here
Tbf it’d be awfully flattering to have someone that’s wealthier, more educated and more physically fit, interested in me… also would be nice to just be bending over to grab something from a low shelf and my partner starts fondling my unit. I mean honestly if you don’t consider the misogyny being a woman sounds pretty great
Here’s my question though. On average, would a woman with the characteristics described above date that man? In my experience, yes while men do select for preferences, often times it’s much looser compared to women.
He might still date her, but many make off hand comments. As a woman who is tall and a high earner, I've dealt with plenty of men who dated me but still made shitty, insecure comments. They didn't last long. Ain't nobody got time for that. It's not that I wasn't willing to date someone who was shorter than me or earned less, I just wasn't willing to put up with verbal abuse. That being said, not all men are insecure babies and I've had plenty of great partners that were shorter or made less than I did.
I'm not saying that isn't true or doesn't happen. And I'm not necessarily saying women *aren't* choosier on average with these characteristics. All I'm saying is that it's a two way street.
The street is two way but the traffic is mostly in one direction. https://ifstudies.org/blog/on-internet-dating-sites-women-prefer-men-with-higher-incomes-and-more-education#:~:text=for%20romantic%20partners.-,Women%20are%20much%20pickier%20than%20men%20in%20their%20choice%20of,are%20disproportionately%20preferred%20by%20women
i don't know a single woman in my life who was dumped or rejected for any of those reasons.
This is unfortunately true. I went to a top-10 school on scholarship and guys older than me (10+ years) think it’s cool/hot that I’m well-educated, but guys my age ask where I went to school and often have a chip on their shoulder for the rest of the conversation 😅 I loved school and was good at it, but academia isn’t the only way to be smart. One of my best friends dropped out of college and they’re one of the smartest people I know when it comes to street smarts, social skills, and being able to fix anything. That said, insecurity and trying to cut me down is deeply ignorant behavior. If you are going to be salty that I got a solid education, I don’t want to be friends with you - let alone date you. When I see someone who’s more advanced than me in a certain area, I think it’s awesome and I ask a lot of questions to learn from them. It’s not a competition and we can all learn from one another. Pride and ego to the point of projecting your insecurity onto others is incredibly annoying and unattractive.
I’m an old, and I remember watching a SATC episode where Miranda went to a speed dating event. She got zero interest when she was truthful about being a lawyer. Then she switched to stewardess, and suddenly guys were super interested Lol
OMG that’s so funny and I can totally see it. It’s definitely a pride/ego thing. They want to feel like they’re “bringing something to the table” and their job is the best metric for them to feel that way. Anyone who feels threatened by someone else and not inspired by them is just not someone I want to date or befriend, tbh. Relationships aren’t transactions, they’re partnerships IMO (and some people view them as transactional but then we are not compatible).
I think it’s also a perception that women are supposed to just putz around and do nothing at their jobs. That makes it easier for a man to imagine interrupting it with children or home demands. But when they hear “lawyer,” their brain immediately starts calculating how much laundry they’ll have to do, and they don’t like it
Unfortunately, it is a common situation when dating men. I think it's for security reasons, if they're not above you, somehow, the more competition they feel they have in order to compete or retain you. If the only thing you have above a guy is your looks, he gets the premium he wants without having to form actually desirable qualities by overriding that with the most practical necessity: Money. For many women, money seems to works as a white-out for many problems the guy could have or as a blanket for his lack of growth for a length of time so long as his money eases their quality of life. The day it doesn't, the rose colored glasses provided by his financial advantage are gone, so the guy gets seen as he's always been. This ends up surprising the guy who got used to the money blinding his partner and is now exposed by the "glasses" falling apart. I think it's why many seem uncomfortable by now having to put in the work the money covered for them and find it easier to start over by fooling another naive: Money avoids accountability and effort. Reminds me of what my Nana used to tell me: If you wouldn't live with a particular guy for FREE, don't entertain them AT ALL. She'd say she rather be shot than deal with that, that the shot would be far more mercy than playing caretaker to a lazy character for the rest of your life. This was the way to truly change things, to let nature take care of the course itself.
I don’t make a lot of money intentionally, if that makes sense - I seek out work exchange/nonprofit positions because I’d rather die than go back to corporate, lol. I make enough to live on and don’t really care for more. Tbh men tend to treat me more like an equal than like a “traditional” woman in terms of gender roles. I get called “intimidating” more at 30 than I ever have because I don’t need a man’s approval to validate me (or a certain amount of money, or owning a home, or any other external item) and have no issue saying so. Older men are usually like “that’s awesome” but younger men sometimes feel in competition with me or threatened if they are less secure. Some older men are gross if all they have to offer is money, though - one guy I barely knew offered to sugar daddy me, I said no thanks, and later he texted me to slut shame me 😂 logic is not logicking there. I know many good guys but what they have in common is they’re all secure in themselves as people or if they’re not, they don’t project their insecurities onto others. I mostly date other graduate students who are sorta in my boat and we feel more mentally compatible (plus they don’t care so much about money either since grad students don’t make a ton, you generally do it if you actually care about your field). The few times I’ve dated a man with a real Career™️ they were pretty shallow financially. No more doctors or lawyers for me, we are just not compatible.
I really don't understand that as a guy, so what if they do? You don't get with someone for their social status/earnings etc (in general), but because you *like* the person, sure social status and that are factors, like most people wouldn't date a homeless person for example, but it's not the main reason why, at least to me, I know there are people who do, but as you say, it's a weird parameter to take into account
it matters what social circles you run in. any partner i have would face significant scrutiny from my family and cultural circles if she wasn’t well educated or had a somewhat decent career. we value education especially very highly. so you can be an academic or wealthy. rich stock broker? fine! passionate researcher with a phd! also fine. but not doing well in your career and or education is seen as a personal and familial failure. what went wrong with you. do you lack ambition. are you not good enough. so on.
It's social. I've been hard "no!"'d by partners parents even though I make more money than the parents themselves. Race and how you climbed your ladder come into play too. And, the hard fact is, most women don't care to marry a man their family would not like.
Just some guys 2 cents,I think is because we're told since we're kids that girls want someone taller,more successful.....so a lot of guys just think that long term them being lower socioeconomically will become a problem
I think the work a less educated man has to do to make a decent living,( construction, trade jobs, mechanics,) would have this person working away from wealthy women.
The electrical trade has a pretty in depth education.
Yeah it does, very educated. Not so many rich ladies hanging out on the job site.
Most of the guys I've worked with are married to nurses. It's pretty cliché.
Nurses and schoolteachers are the big ones in my local for “what does the missus do?”
Ex - Medic checking in. Firemen, cops, and medics are all hooking up with nurses. Firemen tend to be married to other people though.
Yep. Electricians pair up too. My bf and I are both JIWs. He encouraged me to apply to the apprenticeship a year after he started. But there are plenty of couples that I've met.
There are over 11,000,000 teachers and nurses of active working age. That’s 10% of the female population of the same age group.
Exactly. People think that nurses marry doctors, but what usually happens is that doctors marry doctors and nurses marry tradesmen, firefighters, paramedics etc.
Damn you're so right. It just dawned on me and I don't even live in America lol.
Contrary to what porn would make you believe…
This used to be true before women could hold jobs that required higher education in greater numbers. For example, women struggled to become doctors so they became nurses. Doctors tended to marry nurses. Similarly, executives married their secretaries. However, this has changed: [https://ifstudies.org/blog/a-record-share-of-men-are-marrying-up-educationally](https://ifstudies.org/blog/a-record-share-of-men-are-marrying-up-educationally) It used to happen because of barriers to entry for women for higher level jobs. Men had fewer choices but to marry women with less education in the past. Most people, in general, prefer to marry people of equal standing and they have greater success in their marriages if they do so. That being said, men tend to value beauty and youth more than other qualities in women and are more willing to accept a woman of less status than them to get those qualities because they tend to think other men hold them in higher esteem for being able to attract a physically appealing mate. Women tend to value men who are competent and capable of independent living as they don't want to be left to care for a man as if he were a child. That means they want men who are as good or better than them in terms of education, earning power, and status.
>Women tend to value men who are competent and capable of independent living as they don't want to be left to care for a man as if he were a child. That’s a good point. An educated woman who had a hot unemployed husband 10 years younger wouldn’t get high fives from all of her friends for being able to attract such a hot husband. No one would be jealous of her.
In scientific research this is called the marriage gradient. Man on average is a little better off. It’s not quite a joke that no one wants the least successful men, or the most successful women. It’s also women being choosier. I think it’s spelled out in Freakonomics that more successful a women is, the choosier she becomes. Meanwhile the book stated, in online dating, men valued a woman with blonde hair as the equivalent to a college degree lol. Male policemen did very well, apparently because they had positions of power.
I was going to ask exactly that. Are there? Or are we confusing "highly educated men who are married to low educated women" with "Men who dropped out at 17 married with women who dropped out at 14"? And what about weighing the numbers according to the local demographics regarding how many women actually get to study past high school?
Well, my dad told my brothers not to marry a woman who is too smart. I think the feeling was a smart woman would take advantage of them.
A smart woman is also harder to take advantage of
I think that goes both ways. Also nobody should marry a divorce lawyer.
as a divorce lawyer, i disagree
Some of the biggest users I’ve ever met are also the biggest idiots I’ve ever met
In my personal experience, some men start getting insecure if women are smarter than them. And sometimes smarter can equal to having a better job and more income. So now she’s smarter AND wealthier than him. If he’s raised to think men are smarter and are breadwinners, then he thinks he has no purpose in life so he does other things to gain control - cheat or abuse. Linking an [article](https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/why-bad-looks-good/202005/are-female-breadwinners-at-greater-risk-for-spousal-abuse?amp) here that discusses a study that showed there was a substantially higher risk of abuse when a woman was employed but her male partner was not. Likewise, women were at a lower risk of spousal abuse if she and her male partner were employed.
I want to see the stats on abusive mens job retention. I'd bet that people with impulse control issues are less likely to be employed, and that also would impact earning ability.
Depends on the type of abuse. If they have general anger management issues then employment is less likely. However, abuse is often scarily calculated and concealed. Those might be permanently employed
Well. Cops in the bay area can start at 110k with 18 months of training. My guess would be no
Well. Cops in the bay area can start at 110k with 18 months of training. My guess would be no
If I were facing the prospect of having my body destroyed by pregnancy, I would be picky too.
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Pregnancy destroyed my body. Gained a bunch of weight, hair went gray, stress and anxiety were not good for mental health. At least my wife got to push out most of the weight she gained...^^/s
I see what you did there.
Yeah, I'm right there with ya...
Discrepancy in levels of education is irrelevant if a couple has authentic interest in (and respect for) the other person. And communicate well. Also, intelligence and higher education are not equivalent.
People love to downvote the “men can’t handle an educated woman” thing, but… I’m a teacher, and in every group of teacher friends I’ve had, there’s been that one husband who can’t stop bringing up that he didn’t go to college. We’ll be sitting in a restaurant, and nobody is focused on this dude at all, before he starts this speech about how he’s the only person at the table who didn’t go to college, and he thought about it, but didn’t want to go into debt, but thank god he makes more at his trade job than us teachers do, blah, blah, blah. Some dudes are massively insecure about the education thing, even if they are still the breadwinner. I’d imagine even more men would be insecure if their wife really did bring in the majority of the income also.
I've heard guys like that before, and my response is usually "well good for you that your job didn't literally REQUIRE you to go into debt like mine did." (I'm also a teacher).
Dang. I love hanging out with my wife's friends who all have PhDs (including her), they always have interesting takes on topics that are outside my field (I have a BS, they're all social scientists).
This isn't really true anymore. Look at anyone who graduates college they are much more likely to marry someone who also graduated college. In the 1950s a male doctor would marry a nurse now they are more likely to marry another doctor or lawyer.
> In the 1950s a male doctor would marry a nurse now they are more likely to marry another doctor or lawyer. … because women weren’t doctors and lawyers in the 1950s
This is true yes a male dr is more likely to do this, but its not universally true of all male Drs. The point is a female dr has an even higher tendency to marry a male of similar professional status than the male dr has.
Yeah huge numbers of male doctors marry nurses but almost no female doctors marry male nurses, health care assistants, porters etc
To be fair, those professions are female dominated so statistically it makes sense that would be the case.
Health care assistants are fairly even here in Ireland and porters are almost exclusively men.
Nah. Emts, medics, rad techs, cardio techs, the guys who move patients, the kitchen staff, security, and doctors are all male dominant.
I work with a lot of professional, advanced degree women and this is definitely NOT my experience. I know several female doctors, dentists, and lawyers who are married to men who lack both success and ambition.
One of my good friends is married to a man like that, at least in the lacking career ambition part. He has a job, it pays okay, but she’s a doctor/professor at a hospital. He’s kind and cares for her deeply, is the primary parent to their children, and the housework is pretty well balanced between them. Her job is demanding and his isn’t allowing them to reach a lot of their shared life goals together.
It sounds like that works for them and that he is a supportive husband and parent. A lot of the ones I know are not like that at all.
He's giving her far more than a lot of men typically do in those situations NGL. He's overriding what is typically loaded on the woman by helping her do the parental aspect way more than the typical man does as well as easing the home maintenance. I wish I were joking that a lot of men say they do that but genuinely don't. From your writing I quickly got this guy does and likely does more even. When I tell you that guys like that are like the single strand of blonde hair in a silo of hay, he is.
Oh absolutely. He’s a gem and I love them both. My sister OtOH was the primary breadwinner for a guy who couldn’t keep a job, then decided to pursue his passion - skydiving - while quitting his other jobs and mooching of her and not really contributing much at home either. For a long time, she’d talk about his potential. Then he hooked up with some other skydivers, would be gone for days, and eventually broke up with her. He was the insecure guy, pressuring her to quit school as she was furthering her career. This is generally what I see in these relationships. F that.
Oh, I don’t know. I know a fair share of women who are married/committed to worthless sacks of shit.
Yeah. I’ve seen this fairly often as well in my social circles. The wife is the breadwinner and does all of the childcare and does all of the household chores. The husbands are either unemployed or underemployed. It’s much more common in my experience than situations in which the husband is a stay at home dad who cooks, cleans and actually puts effort into raising the children.
Does the math for this add up?
People are out here trying to explain this as some sort of genetic, biological, or preferential reason. The biggest factor in this is the massive gap in education that have existed between men and women historically. It's only been in the last couple decades in which the education gap between genders has closed. The amount of highly educated men to "low educated" women has historically been skewed. The odds of a woman being more educated than a man were, for a long time, really low. So they would have to encounter that situation and then also be compatible for marriage. Whereas it was very easy to encounter a scenario where the man was more educated which meant there were more opportunities for them to be compatible.
Men want sex, women want someone who can provide
Women can take care of themselves financially now. That's one of the reasons we needed feminism. Because society was structured to keep women dependent by denying them economic autonomy. Fuck patriarchy.
I would not be surprised if you were male
Me neither.
This has been the answer since… well… forever.
Not really. For most of history, humans have been hunter gatherers or farmers, and women and men worked together with all the other able bodies members of their family or tribe to provide for themselves and their loved ones. Women not doing paid work while their male partners provide the money is a pretty recent and short lived thing that was never possible for most working class families, i.e. a majority of the population.
No, not really. Until only very recently in history, the average woman had little to no choice in whom they could marry and they didn't have the option of getting a formal education. It wasn't about what women wanted, it was about the role in which they were forced to exist. Also, in regard to sex, there are a lot of references in early civilisations to women being the more sexually "deviant" and, well just from my own experience, women definitely want sex.
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You really had all this shit on hand?
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Most of these things aren't even related. And you bringing up dating apps, notorious for hookups, has little weight on marriages.
You learn that you have to be selective after being sexually harassed multiple times, after being threatened when you reject someone, after feeling unsafe because you’re alone with someone larger and stronger than you who is coming on to you, after receiving the millionth unsolicited dick pic after saying hello, after having to block someone who won’t leave you alone, after meeting up with someone only to realize they think women aren’t people, after realizing your friend is only your friend because he thinks he can sleep with you, etc…
80% of first messages were initiated by men. I wonder how many of them were "DTF?" Gosh why don't women respond?
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Guess I don't fall into this very well. My wife is more educated than me. My ex wife was as well, she constantly reminded of that too.
I know a couple like this, but the ones having a problem with it are only her parents.
Oh believe me me ex wife's parents made sure they brought it up regularly as well and still mention it to my children on occasion if hear them correctly. My wife's parents could care less. They are more concerned about how I treat their daughter and their relationship with my children.
I recall there was this song written by the great contemporary poets Cardi B, and Megan Thee Stallion called "WAP". In it, they state their innermost beliefs, such as: "Broke boys don't deserve no pussy (I know that's right)." Take care.
Let's take it all the way back to '99. "A scrub is a guy that can't get no love from me"
And then all the way back to '84. "Only boys that save their pennies make my rainy day."
From my dating experience as a highly educated woman, and from the experience of female friends in my position, men are just intimidated. Seriously, men on dates have tried to belittle us to make them feel better about themselves. Another reason may be that we are financially independent and just want an equal partner to share our lives with. A lot of men OTOH have been socialized to consider themselves the financial providers and may find it emasculating to find out we earn more than them. I've dated guys like that, it didn't last. FYI, I currently have a higher level of education than my partner (which will hopefully soon change), and will likely always have higher earning potential than him. He is still the best partner I could ever hope for.
No doubt the case sometimes. You cannot say that’s just the explanation and women’s preferences have little to no role.
Smart women don't want no scrubs.
A scrub is a guy that can't no love from me, sitting in the passenger side hollering at me.
There are actual studies showing men feel less secure in a relationship when their female partners are succeeding so I think that has something to do with it https://www.apa.org/news/press/releases/2013/08/men-self-esteem#:~:text=WASHINGTON%20—%20Deep%20down%2C%20men%20may,Personality%20and%20Social%20Psychology®.
finding a woman to manipulate vs finding a man who is kind
Maybe something to do with women in many cultures being prohibited from 'higher learning' until just VERY recently --- and still, in some cultures, they're restricted. Check CURRENT grad stats.
A lot of it is going to come down to the kinds of men you find in the "low educated" pools. Many tend to be in the more conservative/macho/traditional camps due to social upbringing and those men can often be challenged by intelligence. I'm a man myself and I've dealt with men who seem to think that anyone exercising a wider vocabulary is just trying to show off or make people feel dumb. Income can be a problem as well. Some men will be bothered by a wife who makes substantially more than them, again this is very common amongst those raised with a more "traditional" family viewpoint. Many times well educated women have to make a decision surrounding motherhood and careers. A well educated man is more likely to care less about gender roles and would help more with childcare and that would allow a career-driven woman to have the time to focus on their goals. Common interests in life are also a big deal for a solid relationship. If you've ever tried to enjoy an art museum while in the company of someone who clearly has zero interest in art, it's pretty impossible. While you're glancing over a few paintings and considering the time period and historical perspective of the artist, they're sighing repeatedly and scrolling on their phone.
Working as a stripper really opened my eyes to how many men want women to be as dumb as possible.
Looking at things like the 4b movement - women can be happier on their own.
because men don't find highly educated women as attractive compared to the reverse scenario... biology plays a roll but I think modern societal expectations/concepts of "emasculation" are mostly what's to blame.
Men are more socially valued for what they provide, in terms of money, while women are more socially valued for their appearance (a.k.a. fertility expressed through culturally defined standards of beauty). More education tends to increase earning potential. This favors men who are highly educated (**ONLY IF** that becomes a greater income). Also, women I know who are highly educated prefer men who are their peers, while even highly educated men don't require their partner to be equally educated. These combine to favor highly educated men being with low educated women, not vice versa.
Because of penis
Patriarchy
From what I've heard, ,many educated 30-40 year old women are single because they are searching for their male counterpart, but successful and educated 30-40 year old men are dating the 20 year olds.
Or already married
in my experience this just isn't true lol, would love to see your source for this
This is a question that has been asked to women directly, and answered, for the last 10 years. Suzanne Venker, iirc, talks about this during one of her shows. The short version? Hypergamy; the women, when asked, typically desire a man at least as accomplished as themselves. This translates to status and money/earning potential. Op could likely ask women he knows that are college educated what manner of education they want in a mate, and find out for himself.
Individuals making personal decisions for reasons specific to themselves and their own circumstances.
Women, in general, seem to have higher standards than men. edit: I realize this could be construed as a criticism of women's standards, that's not how I meant it at all
Educated women want equals Insecure men with power want subservience (not applicable to everyone obviously just my generalised opinion)
Do you have a source for that claim?
Used to be, not as much anymore as women are more educated than men (US). Not enough men have education over women for that norm now: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5421994/
Thanks for posting the study! It is more aligned with what I intuitively thought. Interesting that the situation is trending closer to the opposite. I'll need to take a closer look at the study.
The rates of college attendance and graduation mirror's what it was in 1970, except women are the 65%, men are the 35%. It has simply reversed. One can hope something is done to bring the genders to parity.
Because education relates to wages, and men are typically uncomfortable being with women who earn more. I've seen marriages fall apart when women become the breadwinner
Fuck I would love that.
Is this a fact or just your personal/anecdotal observation?
Are there? Or are we assuming? I’m not saying you’re wrong, it *seems* like my observation, too. Until I actually think through a few dozen couples I know and realize I’m coming up with far more of the second option. Myself included. Maybe not *low* educated men necessarily , but *lower* educated than her.
The data in this article strongly disagrees with your question: https://ifstudies.org/blog/the-gender-gap-in-marriages-between-college-educated-partners It shows that the vast majority of college educated individuals marry other college graduates. Like 65%. See figure 3.
"Highly educated" woman here... Nothing to do with security, money etc. I have my own money and security. To me intelligence and intellect are very attractive qualities. Most highly educated men also tend to be typically more confident, gentlemanly yet assertive (that's my personal experience, I'm not generalising!), and again, that is something I consider very attractive.
Based on...?
Can you cite your sources?
Because men generally don't give a fuck what their SO does as long as she's attractive
The question sorta answers its self I think. But to paraphrase Scott Galloway: studies have shown Men marry same level or down, women marry same level and up.
Im a 39m with “some college” and my 39f wife has a PhD. I’ll admit we’re rare, but it happens!
I’m married to a man who graduated from high school. I graduated with a B.A. and continued for a masters. Intellectually, we are equal. He made very good money, as did I. We never cared about any opinion but our own and have been married for 50 years.
Really? People tend to marry their equivalence. A PhD with a PhD a doctor with doctor or lawyer.
This is interesting. I am smarter and have more education than my husband. I was also the more attractive partner in our 20s and 30s. I like him for his personality and sense of humour. He's also very tall and I'm very small so I liked the protector vibe he gave off. He knows a lot about a lot and got a City job after high school with no need for post-secondary education. He has always made more money though because my college education has been for child care and now personal support worker.
😂😂 isn't it funny that even though most adults here know the reasons this has blown up
I absolutely prefer educated women/women with a drive to learn and appreciate intelligence. My wife of 10 years is a university grad with a handful of other related designations. I'm a 1 year community college grad. We're both in a job in our field and though I make just below a livable wage (for 1 person), she makes almost twice as much and continues to take courses and classes in order to make more. I couldn't be happier with her determination to provide us with a better life. If all goes to plan for us, I will someday be a full-time house husband. I have a learning disability and over the years I've discovered conversation rather than lectures/reading is the best way I can absorb information, so school was always a struggle. Being able to talk passionately about a topic, knowing there is real thought behind it and can learn from them is attractive to me, regardless of the subject. If all you can talk about is gossip and drama, or have no interests other than the new hot meme of the day, we're not gonna connect. I guess for me it's less about education and more about interests that don't primarily revolve around talking shit about people, or talking about shitty people. In those situations I'm often left waiting for them to make a point that never comes, and there's usually a handful of awkward silent seconds of me staring at them before I realize they're waiting for me to respond. Me "....oh! Umm..yeah. That (random social media stranger) sounds like a real piece of work! They shouldn't have said that!"
Because penis
Well shit, my first girlfriend was waaaaay more intelligent than I am when I was at that age, she even helped me pass my GCSE maths. She fell prey to toxic friends
It seems that in general, not in all cases, men go for physical attraction and women go for stability. I believe it’s actually instinct: in order for humans to succeed, males want offspring who are physically strong and women need to have a partner that can provide while she’s pregnant and then tending to a newborn. A highly educated woman would instinctively look for someone who could provide the same standard they could provide for themselves.
Dunno, man. My wife has two Masters and a PhD, while I have a BSME. We chose to follow her career when shit went sideways in 2009, and I became her domestic support. I'm perfectly content with it, as is she. Funny thing is, I'm better educated generally- my interests are wide while she focused in on her specialty. There isn't a power differential between us. I have abilities she lacks, while she's the earner. Maybe we're the exception...
I’m “highly educated” and my man of 12 yrs is a contractor/project manager. I spent 6 years in school, 2 more for other degrees. My guy graduated high school and worked construction and never stopped. I had almost 100k in school debt and no job. My partner was making 100k…at 28!!! So, not all tradesmen are poor men. And not all highly educated women are wealthy! I was finally out of debt right before I met my guy!
I think to some men, they largely don't care what career level their female partners have. Highly educated women usually seek similar men so their male partners aren't intimidated.
Cause woman by nature want to marry upwards, if they don’t they will raise hell
I know a couple high percentile women. They are really smart, really funny, really attractive, high performers. 1 of the 3 is married and the other two are childless, without marital prospects and miserable. I hate that for my friends.
Only people in denial of female/male differences confused by this.
Women date up in terms of money (and so, smarts). Men date up in terms of looks and put-togetherness. I’m generalizing obviously. But that’s what you’re observing.
Because finding an attractive woman with charisma is hard enough. Finding an attractive woman with charisma that is also smart is like hitting the lottery.
"A woman's test in life is material. A man's test in life is a woman."
A woman wants a husband so she goes to the Husband Store. At the entrance there is a sign that says: The store has six floors, as you go up the men get better. On each floor you can either pick a husband from there or go up to the next floor. But you can't come back down once you've gone up. So the woman goes in and on the first floor are good looking men. She thinks "I want more than this" and goes up to the second floor. On that floor there are men who are good looking and make a lot of money. Again she thinks "I want more than this" and goes up. She continues this until she gets to the sixth floor, where she encounters a sign that says: "Sorry, there are no more men, have a nice day" Now, across the street, there is the Wife Store. Same deal. On the first floor are women who are beautiful and can cook. Nobody knows what's on any of the higher floors.