Every time this comes up I feel like I'd rather the PF2 game play more like a tactics RPG with retro sprite art. The idea of removing the grid from Pf2 makes me seethe.
I mean, grid-based CRPGs do exist. Solasta does it quite well, though it is low-budget and janky.
A PF2e CRPG done in the style of Solasta with a better budget/more time in the oven would be the dream.
Someone once mentioned on here that PF2 could be thought of more as "XCom, but high fantasy", and when you think about it, that's a pretty good comparison.
When I was playing the video game version Pathfinder: Kingmaker, it struck me as very XCom-like. (More the old one than the new one, but that's just me.)
Why? Because:
1. There'd be reports of trouble across my jurisdiction.
1. I'd assemble a team.
1. I'd equip them with what I think they'll need: weapons, armour, provisions, consumables, and prepared spells.
1. They ventured off, and if any trouble befouled them, they'd have to cope with what they had or could find.
I especially felt like I was playing XCom when I went back to the island full of >! will-o-wisps !<. They kicked my teams arse the first time and I had to retreat. This time, I came prepared with the right stuff (especially >! spells to protect from electricity damage !< ) and the whole thing went much smoother. Well, until I made it through those enemies and reached the boss, which was something entirely different!
I mean, I don't much like it for 1e either. It's a ruleset made very specifically for grid-based and turn-based, RTWP with no grid is really not the choice I would have made. At least they walked back the RTWP a bit by following a modder's lead and adding turn based as an option, but still. A lot of the tactical side of combat is lost when things like flanking and reach are diluted by necessity of having no grid
For some reason, they also think that since they went through the trouble of coming up with the RTwP conversion of the real rules, combat should be easier and faster, so they might as well DROWN YOU IN HORDES OF RANDOM TRASH ENCOUNTERS!
It makes it so that the Turn Based workaround is too slow to complete the game in a reasonable amount of time.
Yeah, that, the inflated numbers on everything, and the pretty braindead AI means that, as a turn based tactics game, the Owlcat CRPGs are super lacking. Which is a real shame, because that's where PF as a system shines for me.
Oh thank god its not just me. I tried WotR strictly turn-based and gave up after 10-15 hours. Even with the skip/speed-up feature, combats were just taking too long.
Switched to RTwP and it’s faster but man it just feels weird. More like watching than playing, unless you pause so frequently to issue orders that it might as well be turn-based
I only got as far as I did with cheats to delete random inconsequential boring encounters that no GM in their right mind would ever have foisted upon a table.
Well, I like roguelikes, I think procgen goes with emergent storytelling, they are both turn based and grid based, and it's a bit easier for a solo coder like me to do
Paizo [did announce there were two games in the works](https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo6si9w) last year, one of which is supposed to debut soon I think, a Diablo-style **Abomination Vaults** game!
Unfortunately not.
Paizo needs to ~~contract~~ license one out to a AAA studio pronto with how much BG3 has revitalized interest in CRPGs. It cant be a small studio though, it has to be someone who can rival Larian (if not Larian themselves, but they seem busy with their next project, and having another planned after that) or else people will just call it a BG3 knockoff.
I'd kill for a CDPR PF2E game, but I dont think they would do a CRPG though, as their style is open world ARPGs.
Plus commissioned games tend to be poor quality.
What you want is a studio to get a licensing deal - that’s how you get good games. That’s how we got Kingmaker, Abomination Vaults, and BG3.
Why would you want AAA? All that means is maximum wealth extraction at the expense of fun, a complete game, and developer sanity. They'll put live services in there or loot boxes or release with day 1 dlc to get the full game.
AAA is dogshit these days.
AAA is just an indicator for how much money went into the development and PR. Nothing more, nothing less. It's no indicator of quality, what kind of studio worked on it or other business practices etc.
The Owlcat PF1e games got turn-based. I *think* Wrath started with it, and I think after it was developed in Wrath it was ported to Kingmaker.
I know I played Kingmaker (almost) entirely turn-based. First with [this excellent mod](https://www.nexusmods.com/pathfinderkingmaker/mods/109), then with the official integration when it was retro-fitted in.
They took the time to do it well (both the mod and the official integration). PF1e has a hairy set of actions in its turn system and it seemed pretty damned faithful from what I could see.
My point in saying all this is to bolster your point about Owlcat maybe warming up to turn-based.
I finished both games on turn-based. Yes, Wrath had it from the start. So did Kingmaker for me at least because I bought the EE version after all the patches and so on.
My personal view is the games are much better on turn-based.
I guess what I was mostly trying to say is this:
I am not that knowledgeable on 2E but the overall system of 3 actions (sort of like 3AP per turn and some stuff costs 1, 2 or 3 AP) & movement seems perhaps a little more like the Rogue Trader (Warhammer) combat system than the Pathfinder 1E based combat system. So perhaps that tweak of their game engine for their most recent title would make it more appealing to them to consider a 2E game.
I loved both Pathfinder games from Owlcat (despite not liking the management systems tacked on at all) so I would take any PF games they choose to make - another 1E title would be cool but I do think 2E seems to be so great for a video game system so would love to see that.
But I am not hopeful it will happen, Owlcat does not seem keen to do another Pathfinder title any time soon.
TBF the dev team would be fronting the costs, Paizo's role just would be licensing their IP (I know I said contract in the original post but I should have said license) and making sure the studio is up to snuff to do their IP justice.
The question then becomes: "Is Pathfinder big enough for a big studio to think there is profit in the project" or "Is there by chance a big dev interested enough in the IP to go to Paizo first, like CDPR did to R Talsorian and Mike Pondsmith".
The answer to the first one is a solid "maybe", to the second one, only the people in question would know.
Alternately they could keep working with Owlcat, but Owlcat while getting better with each release, is nowhere near Larian's level.
Obsidian or InXile could maybe do it, being AA studios with AAA resources thanks to Microsoft, but both of them are currently fairly busy too.
Trying to do exactly what BG3 did isn't actually the way to avoid being called a BG3 knock-off. There's no reason why a pathfinder 2e crpg would need to be AAA. The main draws of pathfinder are the tactics and character customization. There's no reason you need the insane production values and development cycle of BG3 to leverage either of those.
In a vacuum no.
But with today's fickle ass gaming audience? I dunno, I could see a lot of salt if it isn't atleast in the vicinity of how reactive BG3 is to your actions. You dont need the graphics to be quite as high quality, but they will need decent character models, not ones that look like they came from Wasteland 2 or Pillars of Eternity (the first one, Deadfire's would probably be okay).
How big of an audience you need to appeal to is a function of how much money is spent on the game. IMO a crpg faithfully based on the PF2 ruleset is unlikely to ever have the kind of mass appeal necessary to justify an AAA budget and trying to copy BG3 seems like a losing strategy to me. IMO the model people should be looking at is games like Banner Saga or Shadowrun Returns, or if you want to branch out a bit more genre-wise even Rogue-likes like Darkest Dungeon or Battle Brothers.
The model we should be looking at is what has already been done: Owlcat’s 1e games were successful. A solid AA dev with passion and know-how could totally satisfy a 2e crpg audience while turning a profit without having to try and match BG3 levels of production.
WotR continues to sell to this day, and is typically recommended to every hobbyist once they get familiar with the genre. There should be opportunity for someone to take the ip and make a similar game but with 2e rules.
That's somewhat true, however if you want the game to be as successful and loved as BG3, you can't just implement the mechanics and call it a day. The insane production value, including writing, voice acting and so on, are all part of what makes a game great.
I don't think it's reasonable or realistic to plan on the assumption that you can match the success of a game that is arguably the most overproduced game in history but also had the brand recognition of not only the most well known brand in table top gaming but also one of the best known IPs in computer gaming going for it.
Refusing to learn any lessons from BG3 would be a mistake.
Yes, focus more on tactical and meaningful combat. Have more difficulty options, More cohesive or expansive story…
BUT
presentation matters. Effort, care, polish, good price, respecting the players time and budget and a little bit of fan service all matter!
Expecting every crpg to spend the millions and millions necessary for full mocap and voice acting is a little delusional. Id rather have 3 normal length owlcat type CRPGs than 1 that spent that money on the presentation and is a quarter of the length. Your money doesn't go far in a videogame when the majority is put towards presentation. Space Marine two is going to be a fun game.....but it won't have the depth or length of rogue trader, for example.
'respecting the players time and budget'
We are discussing the game that cost $60 USD in 2020 dollars for its early access and then did not release for *3 years* right?
There is a rumor that Tactical Adventures might be developing something for Pf2e (part of it is likely fueled by the fact they got bombarded with "please make a pathfinder game" in their survey last year) but so far it's been just that, a rumor.
That the team behind Solasta?
Do they do narrative focused games? I wanted to check out Solasta, but had heard that while the 5E rules were on point, that it had basically no story, which was a letdown for me since unless Im playing something competitive I need a story to get invested into.
It’s a fine basic story. I appreciated that it wasn’t hard to follow, and the dialogue system actually led to me being attached to my quirky brand of janky model misfits.
But it’s best treated as a series of interesting tactical encounters with some excellent mood lighting.
Yeah I think the writing system was a surprisingly effective way of getting me attached to my characters. Most custom made characters in TTRPGs like this feel pretty empty (even when they're protagonists), but I felt like my characters had distinct personalities.
It's still no BG3, but I don't think it's as bad as people say.
I have 160 hours in Solasta. The Story is quite underwhelming, but their implementation of the 5e ruleset is significantly more accurate than BG3 and I felt their combat scenarios more interesting too.
There was a story in the base campaign though it was quite on rails. Nothing mind blowing but it had some interesting ideas.. I imagine there was story in the expansion though I have done only a little bit of it. And I guess in some of the custom scenarios though I would not count too much on those.
The 5e rules weren't really on point either. They changed quite a bit (and not just to improve things like BG3 did).
It absolutely has story, though.
Overall it's imo pretty janky and bland. The dialogues are pretty meh as well. If they make a PF2e game of the same quality I won't be impressed in the slightest (and I doubt they will as they could barely handle the workload 5e mechanics gave them).
Eh, even if they licence a AAA studio yesterday, it'll be way too late to get on the BG3 hypetrain. Not just has the train practically already left, developing games takes a LONG time. Several years. By the time it's done, nobody will talk about BG3 anymore.
I don't think it's realistic to expect a pf2e crpg to rival BG3, as it's sucess is the combination of a lot of factors. BG3 had a well known studio making highly reactive games, the DnD brand name, a good budget, and the lose rules of 5e causing Larien to come up with theor own solutions that added to the reactivity.
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I know I am not answering to the question,but is it worth to play wrath of the righteous? I love divinity os 2 and Bg3 so I am eager to play it, especially now that there is a DLC coming out
WotR is.... interesting. I've had to restart it well over half a dozen times because there's little "gotcha" moments, where if you make a mistake in a certain spot, or don't do a thing before another, you can soft lock yourself out of the game. The art style is solid, the game functions well (no crashes, etc.), the story itself is interesting. But their implementation could have been much better. Much like Kingmaker, I really enjoy going out with your party doing adventuring things, but loathe the overland management of your armies.
My answer would be : it depends.
Are you familiar at all with PF1? Do you want to install some quality-of-life mods? Are you ok with some cookie-cutter examples of alignements systems and why it doesn't work very well? Do you have lots of time on your hands?
If you answered yes to all of these, by all means, this game is very fun, has lots of replayability with all the different builds and paths you can choose and is a great adaptation of the system.
If you answered no anywhere, I would not advise you to ignore the game, just be forewarned that the game might have some issues and could use some improvements in certain areas.
I loved vanilla WOTR, it doesn’t need mods to be playable, even if it’s enhanced by mods. It’s a good game, albeit it does require playing tactically. It’s ”hard by default” compared to BG3 which is “easy by default”
If I had to only take 1 mod, I'd take the one that allows all the buff to be pre-cast automatically with the press of a single button. Life (or my gaming time) is too short to waste 5 minutes buffing every party member after each long rest.
I don't remember where I read it (twitter or Discord?). But someone from Paizo heavily hinted at a CRPG being in development when asked about one when they first announced Gallowspire Survivors and Abomination Vaults.
Computer Role Playing Game
[wiki link](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Role-playing_video_game#:~:text=A%20role%2Dplaying%20video%20game,by%20way%20of%20recording%20statistics)
I've just seen Ossian Studios is opening a kickstarter for a crpg using pf2e (they used #Pathfinder2e as a tag on the tweet):
[https://x.com/OssianStudios/status/1791213259451666927](https://x.com/OssianStudios/status/1791213259451666927)
I heard there is an Abomination Vaults CRPG that was on Kickstarter. Not sure when it's due out.
But, it's an action RPG. They aren't using any of the 2EPFRPG system. Just setting and character names, ect.
You also can't make a character from scratch. You have to use one of the pre made iconic they have.
It a shame. Because the action economy of PF2 makes it perfect for a deep, tactical CRPG.
Hard pass for me. To me, it's not pathfinder.
I do believe there is an abom vaults arpg in the works though that was just announced and I haven't heard anything about it recently and there was a game advertising that I can't remember saying it used either the PF2e system or something similar.
Based in abomination vaults is a stretch. It feels like they were making an arpg already and just shopped around for a recognisable license to help with the crowd funding.
Dawnsbury days is probably the closest you'll find to what you want. https://store.steampowered.com/app/2693730/Dawnsbury_Days/
While this is basic in terms of storyline and scope, It's an excellent pretty close to RAW implementation of the PF2E ruleset. A lot of fun.
Is that an expansion of Quest for Golden Candelabra or just a rename?
Quest was the demo, Dawnsbury is a lvl 1-4 AP with mod support for custom encounters.
You made my day, mate! Thank you!
Dawnsbury Days is the only one I know of
Every time this comes up I feel like I'd rather the PF2 game play more like a tactics RPG with retro sprite art. The idea of removing the grid from Pf2 makes me seethe.
I mean, grid-based CRPGs do exist. Solasta does it quite well, though it is low-budget and janky. A PF2e CRPG done in the style of Solasta with a better budget/more time in the oven would be the dream.
iirc that's basically how Dawnsbury Days works
Yeah, there is also Wasteland 2 and 3 that are crpgs with stuff lifted from X-com games, including grids.
Someone once mentioned on here that PF2 could be thought of more as "XCom, but high fantasy", and when you think about it, that's a pretty good comparison.
I did not know how much i needed Pathfinder XCom until you mentioned it. Now i'm sad because we, must probably, won't see any game like this ever.
When I was playing the video game version Pathfinder: Kingmaker, it struck me as very XCom-like. (More the old one than the new one, but that's just me.) Why? Because: 1. There'd be reports of trouble across my jurisdiction. 1. I'd assemble a team. 1. I'd equip them with what I think they'll need: weapons, armour, provisions, consumables, and prepared spells. 1. They ventured off, and if any trouble befouled them, they'd have to cope with what they had or could find. I especially felt like I was playing XCom when I went back to the island full of >! will-o-wisps !<. They kicked my teams arse the first time and I had to retreat. This time, I came prepared with the right stuff (especially >! spells to protect from electricity damage !< ) and the whole thing went much smoother. Well, until I made it through those enemies and reached the boss, which was something entirely different!
I mean, I don't much like it for 1e either. It's a ruleset made very specifically for grid-based and turn-based, RTWP with no grid is really not the choice I would have made. At least they walked back the RTWP a bit by following a modder's lead and adding turn based as an option, but still. A lot of the tactical side of combat is lost when things like flanking and reach are diluted by necessity of having no grid
For some reason, they also think that since they went through the trouble of coming up with the RTwP conversion of the real rules, combat should be easier and faster, so they might as well DROWN YOU IN HORDES OF RANDOM TRASH ENCOUNTERS! It makes it so that the Turn Based workaround is too slow to complete the game in a reasonable amount of time.
Yeah, that, the inflated numbers on everything, and the pretty braindead AI means that, as a turn based tactics game, the Owlcat CRPGs are super lacking. Which is a real shame, because that's where PF as a system shines for me.
Oh thank god its not just me. I tried WotR strictly turn-based and gave up after 10-15 hours. Even with the skip/speed-up feature, combats were just taking too long. Switched to RTwP and it’s faster but man it just feels weird. More like watching than playing, unless you pause so frequently to issue orders that it might as well be turn-based
I only got as far as I did with cheats to delete random inconsequential boring encounters that no GM in their right mind would ever have foisted upon a table.
I'd love a PF2 game in the style of Final Fantasy Tactics.
You have sparked needs I did not know I had until now. I am unsure if I should thank you or curse you. xD
Ooh, a FFT style PF2e game would be good
I never knew this is what I wanted until now. Though I'd try it on a hex grid, too.
inXile Entertainment absolutely nailed the exploration game with tactical combat with Wasteland 3. The studio would be my first pick for a pf2e game.
How about a PF2E tactics trad. roguelike? Does that hold any appeal?
Why would you want to do roguelike?
Well, I like roguelikes, I think procgen goes with emergent storytelling, they are both turn based and grid based, and it's a bit easier for a solo coder like me to do
Everyone already mentioned Dawnsbury Days, so I'll mention Archquest, which is still in development
Paizo [did announce there were two games in the works](https://paizo.com/community/blog/v5748dyo6si9w) last year, one of which is supposed to debut soon I think, a Diablo-style **Abomination Vaults** game!
I hope that hits consoles, it'd be super fun
Unfortunately not. Paizo needs to ~~contract~~ license one out to a AAA studio pronto with how much BG3 has revitalized interest in CRPGs. It cant be a small studio though, it has to be someone who can rival Larian (if not Larian themselves, but they seem busy with their next project, and having another planned after that) or else people will just call it a BG3 knockoff. I'd kill for a CDPR PF2E game, but I dont think they would do a CRPG though, as their style is open world ARPGs.
Let's be real; I don't think Paizo has AAA money to throw around.
Plus commissioned games tend to be poor quality. What you want is a studio to get a licensing deal - that’s how you get good games. That’s how we got Kingmaker, Abomination Vaults, and BG3.
Honestly, OwlCat wasn't a bad developer for their Pathfinder games. Someone of that tier would probably work best for Paizo.
Oh yeah, don't get me wrong, OwlCat's stuff is really good. It's just not an AAA pathfinder game, and it earnestly doesn't need to be.
Why would you want AAA? All that means is maximum wealth extraction at the expense of fun, a complete game, and developer sanity. They'll put live services in there or loot boxes or release with day 1 dlc to get the full game. AAA is dogshit these days.
AAA is just an indicator for how much money went into the development and PR. Nothing more, nothing less. It's no indicator of quality, what kind of studio worked on it or other business practices etc.
Owlcat has said they don’t want to do PF2e as they like 1E. But after rogue trader which is purely turn based, maybe they will change their minds.
The Owlcat PF1e games got turn-based. I *think* Wrath started with it, and I think after it was developed in Wrath it was ported to Kingmaker. I know I played Kingmaker (almost) entirely turn-based. First with [this excellent mod](https://www.nexusmods.com/pathfinderkingmaker/mods/109), then with the official integration when it was retro-fitted in. They took the time to do it well (both the mod and the official integration). PF1e has a hairy set of actions in its turn system and it seemed pretty damned faithful from what I could see. My point in saying all this is to bolster your point about Owlcat maybe warming up to turn-based.
I finished both games on turn-based. Yes, Wrath had it from the start. So did Kingmaker for me at least because I bought the EE version after all the patches and so on. My personal view is the games are much better on turn-based. I guess what I was mostly trying to say is this: I am not that knowledgeable on 2E but the overall system of 3 actions (sort of like 3AP per turn and some stuff costs 1, 2 or 3 AP) & movement seems perhaps a little more like the Rogue Trader (Warhammer) combat system than the Pathfinder 1E based combat system. So perhaps that tweak of their game engine for their most recent title would make it more appealing to them to consider a 2E game. I loved both Pathfinder games from Owlcat (despite not liking the management systems tacked on at all) so I would take any PF games they choose to make - another 1E title would be cool but I do think 2E seems to be so great for a video game system so would love to see that. But I am not hopeful it will happen, Owlcat does not seem keen to do another Pathfinder title any time soon.
Kingmaker has had it before wrath came out, but you are correct both wrath and kingmaker have a turn based mode
TBF the dev team would be fronting the costs, Paizo's role just would be licensing their IP (I know I said contract in the original post but I should have said license) and making sure the studio is up to snuff to do their IP justice. The question then becomes: "Is Pathfinder big enough for a big studio to think there is profit in the project" or "Is there by chance a big dev interested enough in the IP to go to Paizo first, like CDPR did to R Talsorian and Mike Pondsmith". The answer to the first one is a solid "maybe", to the second one, only the people in question would know. Alternately they could keep working with Owlcat, but Owlcat while getting better with each release, is nowhere near Larian's level. Obsidian or InXile could maybe do it, being AA studios with AAA resources thanks to Microsoft, but both of them are currently fairly busy too.
They tried to make an MMO about 10 years ago and you can guess how well that went. They did license for a vampire survivors clone, fwiw.
Trying to do exactly what BG3 did isn't actually the way to avoid being called a BG3 knock-off. There's no reason why a pathfinder 2e crpg would need to be AAA. The main draws of pathfinder are the tactics and character customization. There's no reason you need the insane production values and development cycle of BG3 to leverage either of those.
In a vacuum no. But with today's fickle ass gaming audience? I dunno, I could see a lot of salt if it isn't atleast in the vicinity of how reactive BG3 is to your actions. You dont need the graphics to be quite as high quality, but they will need decent character models, not ones that look like they came from Wasteland 2 or Pillars of Eternity (the first one, Deadfire's would probably be okay).
How big of an audience you need to appeal to is a function of how much money is spent on the game. IMO a crpg faithfully based on the PF2 ruleset is unlikely to ever have the kind of mass appeal necessary to justify an AAA budget and trying to copy BG3 seems like a losing strategy to me. IMO the model people should be looking at is games like Banner Saga or Shadowrun Returns, or if you want to branch out a bit more genre-wise even Rogue-likes like Darkest Dungeon or Battle Brothers.
The model we should be looking at is what has already been done: Owlcat’s 1e games were successful. A solid AA dev with passion and know-how could totally satisfy a 2e crpg audience while turning a profit without having to try and match BG3 levels of production. WotR continues to sell to this day, and is typically recommended to every hobbyist once they get familiar with the genre. There should be opportunity for someone to take the ip and make a similar game but with 2e rules.
I liked WoTR and kingmaker but I would be lying if i said the reactivity and presentation didn't make BG3 a far more enjoyable game to me.
That's somewhat true, however if you want the game to be as successful and loved as BG3, you can't just implement the mechanics and call it a day. The insane production value, including writing, voice acting and so on, are all part of what makes a game great.
I don't think it's reasonable or realistic to plan on the assumption that you can match the success of a game that is arguably the most overproduced game in history but also had the brand recognition of not only the most well known brand in table top gaming but also one of the best known IPs in computer gaming going for it.
Neither is it reasonable to just give up and settle for a barebones skeleton of a game instead.
Lol yup, that's my point, every game that isn't BG3 is a barebones skeleton of a game.
Refusing to learn any lessons from BG3 would be a mistake. Yes, focus more on tactical and meaningful combat. Have more difficulty options, More cohesive or expansive story… BUT presentation matters. Effort, care, polish, good price, respecting the players time and budget and a little bit of fan service all matter!
Expecting every crpg to spend the millions and millions necessary for full mocap and voice acting is a little delusional. Id rather have 3 normal length owlcat type CRPGs than 1 that spent that money on the presentation and is a quarter of the length. Your money doesn't go far in a videogame when the majority is put towards presentation. Space Marine two is going to be a fun game.....but it won't have the depth or length of rogue trader, for example.
'respecting the players time and budget' We are discussing the game that cost $60 USD in 2020 dollars for its early access and then did not release for *3 years* right?
There is a rumor that Tactical Adventures might be developing something for Pf2e (part of it is likely fueled by the fact they got bombarded with "please make a pathfinder game" in their survey last year) but so far it's been just that, a rumor.
That the team behind Solasta? Do they do narrative focused games? I wanted to check out Solasta, but had heard that while the 5E rules were on point, that it had basically no story, which was a letdown for me since unless Im playing something competitive I need a story to get invested into.
It’s a fine basic story. I appreciated that it wasn’t hard to follow, and the dialogue system actually led to me being attached to my quirky brand of janky model misfits. But it’s best treated as a series of interesting tactical encounters with some excellent mood lighting.
Yeah, I thought the writing was actually decent considering you have a party of four custom made characters.
Yeah I think the writing system was a surprisingly effective way of getting me attached to my characters. Most custom made characters in TTRPGs like this feel pretty empty (even when they're protagonists), but I felt like my characters had distinct personalities. It's still no BG3, but I don't think it's as bad as people say.
Yep, the Solasta guys, I heard the story is on the weaker side too.
Yeah but that made a decent enough game outside of that. With pf 2e writing team helping I think they can make a solid game.
I have 160 hours in Solasta. The Story is quite underwhelming, but their implementation of the 5e ruleset is significantly more accurate than BG3 and I felt their combat scenarios more interesting too.
There was a story in the base campaign though it was quite on rails. Nothing mind blowing but it had some interesting ideas.. I imagine there was story in the expansion though I have done only a little bit of it. And I guess in some of the custom scenarios though I would not count too much on those.
The 5e rules weren't really on point either. They changed quite a bit (and not just to improve things like BG3 did). It absolutely has story, though. Overall it's imo pretty janky and bland. The dialogues are pretty meh as well. If they make a PF2e game of the same quality I won't be impressed in the slightest (and I doubt they will as they could barely handle the workload 5e mechanics gave them).
Eh, even if they licence a AAA studio yesterday, it'll be way too late to get on the BG3 hypetrain. Not just has the train practically already left, developing games takes a LONG time. Several years. By the time it's done, nobody will talk about BG3 anymore.
Well, they did a GWENT adventure once, that is very CRPGish in their mechanics. And well, technically, BG3 is an AA game, not AAA
I don't think it's realistic to expect a pf2e crpg to rival BG3, as it's sucess is the combination of a lot of factors. BG3 had a well known studio making highly reactive games, the DnD brand name, a good budget, and the lose rules of 5e causing Larien to come up with theor own solutions that added to the reactivity.
They've hinted at it being in the works before on reddit, but no official announcement.
I've been replaying kingmaker on PS5 today and man I'm having a blast. So much fun.
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I know I am not answering to the question,but is it worth to play wrath of the righteous? I love divinity os 2 and Bg3 so I am eager to play it, especially now that there is a DLC coming out
WotR is.... interesting. I've had to restart it well over half a dozen times because there's little "gotcha" moments, where if you make a mistake in a certain spot, or don't do a thing before another, you can soft lock yourself out of the game. The art style is solid, the game functions well (no crashes, etc.), the story itself is interesting. But their implementation could have been much better. Much like Kingmaker, I really enjoy going out with your party doing adventuring things, but loathe the overland management of your armies.
My answer would be : it depends. Are you familiar at all with PF1? Do you want to install some quality-of-life mods? Are you ok with some cookie-cutter examples of alignements systems and why it doesn't work very well? Do you have lots of time on your hands? If you answered yes to all of these, by all means, this game is very fun, has lots of replayability with all the different builds and paths you can choose and is a great adaptation of the system. If you answered no anywhere, I would not advise you to ignore the game, just be forewarned that the game might have some issues and could use some improvements in certain areas.
I loved vanilla WOTR, it doesn’t need mods to be playable, even if it’s enhanced by mods. It’s a good game, albeit it does require playing tactically. It’s ”hard by default” compared to BG3 which is “easy by default”
If I had to only take 1 mod, I'd take the one that allows all the buff to be pre-cast automatically with the press of a single button. Life (or my gaming time) is too short to waste 5 minutes buffing every party member after each long rest.
I don't remember where I read it (twitter or Discord?). But someone from Paizo heavily hinted at a CRPG being in development when asked about one when they first announced Gallowspire Survivors and Abomination Vaults.
What's crpg?
Baldur's Gate 3 is an example of a CRPG. It's a type of videogame.
Ah, computer rpg? Makes sense 😅
Computer Role Playing Game [wiki link](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Role-playing_video_game#:~:text=A%20role%2Dplaying%20video%20game,by%20way%20of%20recording%20statistics)
WoTR was great fun, my dm banned me from playing kingmaker because he wants to run the vtt module at some point though.
I am enjoying WoTR much more than I enjoyed kingmaker.
None I know of atm. I'm willing to bet that the Godsrain saga will become a crpg eventually, but that will be quite a while from now
I’d love to see an announcement for a new one soon
I've just seen Ossian Studios is opening a kickstarter for a crpg using pf2e (they used #Pathfinder2e as a tag on the tweet): [https://x.com/OssianStudios/status/1791213259451666927](https://x.com/OssianStudios/status/1791213259451666927)
I heard there is an Abomination Vaults CRPG that was on Kickstarter. Not sure when it's due out. But, it's an action RPG. They aren't using any of the 2EPFRPG system. Just setting and character names, ect. You also can't make a character from scratch. You have to use one of the pre made iconic they have. It a shame. Because the action economy of PF2 makes it perfect for a deep, tactical CRPG. Hard pass for me. To me, it's not pathfinder.
I do believe there is an abom vaults arpg in the works though that was just announced and I haven't heard anything about it recently and there was a game advertising that I can't remember saying it used either the PF2e system or something similar.
That's like based in abomination vaults but very much not a P2E rpg iirc
I think it is much heavily influenced by arpgs (so diablo and path of exile) than crpgs like BG3. No idea what the end product will be like though.
Based in abomination vaults is a stretch. It feels like they were making an arpg already and just shopped around for a recognisable license to help with the crowd funding.
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The AV one is going to be an ARPG (like Diablo or Path of Exile), but the studio behind it is also making a Survivors-like PF game too.
No. That's Pathfinder: Gallowspire Survivors. Abomination Vaults is going to be an isometric Diablo-like ARPG.