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I guess.
Unfun fact. His wife was in a car accident with permanent disabilities. He was a POW. When he came back he saw she was in a wheelchair and fatter so he cheated on her and divorced her. She had a limp and so did John after being POW, but he dumped her.
After he dumped her, Reagan felt so bad that he hired Carol McCain to be the director of the white house visitors office.
John McCain admitted he left his wife due to being selfish and immature. Even Ross Perot, was friends with them, said McCain was horrible for dumping his wife.
Source?
I found this on wikipedia:
"In April 1979, John McCain started an affair with [Cindy Lou Hensley](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cindy_Hensley), an [Arizona](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arizona) special education teacher and [Hensley & Co.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hensley_%26_Co.) heiress.[^(\[21\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carol_McCain#cite_note-Kristof-21) He then pushed to end their marriage, and friends described Carol as being in shock.[^(\[21\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carol_McCain#cite_note-Kristof-21) The McCains stopped cohabitating in January 1980; he filed for divorce in February 1980,[^(\[12\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carol_McCain#cite_note-lat071108-12) which she accepted.[^(\[21\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carol_McCain#cite_note-Kristof-21) When asked by a friend what had gone wrong, she said, "It's just one of those things."[^(\[21\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carol_McCain#cite_note-Kristof-21) The uncontested divorce became official in [Fort Walton Beach](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Walton_Beach,_Florida) on April 2, 1980.[^(\[35\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carol_McCain#cite_note-alexander-92-35)
Her ex-husband would later state that he felt the demise of his marriage was due to his "selfishness and immaturity more than it was to Vietnam, and I cannot escape blame by pointing a finger at the war. The blame was entirely mine."[^(\[31\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carol_McCain#cite_note-az-arizona-31) **Regarding her divorce, McCain said, "The breakup of our marriage was not caused by my accident or Vietnam or any of those things. I don't know that it might not have happened if John had never been gone. I attribute it more to John turning 40 and wanting to be 25 again than I do to anything else."**[**^(\[31\])**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carol_McCain#cite_note-az-arizona-31) **John McCain's biographer** [**Robert Timberg**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Timberg) **wrote, however, "Vietnam did play a part, perhaps not the major part, but more than a walk-on."**[^(\[36\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carol_McCain#cite_note-timberg-125-36) Ross Perot gave his own assessment of the McCain divorce: "After he came home, he walked with a limp, she \[Carol McCain\] walked with a limp. So he threw her over for a poster girl with big money from Arizona \[Cindy McCain\] and the rest is history."[^(\[23\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carol_McCain#cite_note-limp-23) McCain's three children were initially upset with their father about the divorce, but later reconciled with him."
Not trying to be a dick, just saying it seems more complicated than "she was fatter."
Yeah, he even helped spawn that far useless mouthpiece of a daughter who constantly tells people not to bring up her father while simultaneously bringing up her father any chance she gets and takes credit for it.
He was a journalist. First at Ft. Rucker (now named Ft. Novosel), then in Viet Nam he wrote for the Castle Courier, the newspaper of the Army engineers.
Kudos to Gore for enlisting because he didn’t want someone to go in his place.
I clearly remember it being part of the montage that introduced him at the convention. Definitely emphasized the journalism and that it was evidence of patriotism as well as intelligence and analysis. Other than that you didn’t hear much about it. Probably because they were hammering Bush for dodging.
> he didn’t want someone to go in his place.
Al Gore's father was running for re-election and was a critic of the Vietnam War. It was a combination of wanting to serve his country and not wanting to give his father's republican opponent ammunition to criticize his father if he did not serve.
Notable that all three of these guys were rich kids with loads of connections, easily the demographic most likely to avoid Vietnam and also why we haven't had a Vietnam-vet president. McCain of course didn't really have a choice, though he gets credit for refusing to be released early as a POW due to his dad.
Ya, we joke about Cheney being the most powerful VP, but Gore was probably the most influential. He did a lot of competent shit while VP, most of it quiet and under the radar without making a big splash. Charisma of a lemon though.
He was the first person I got to vote for at 19. Lost all hope after that. Watched my brother get stop lost back to Iraq two years later to a war I never bought into. Adulthood has never been good thinking back. One atrocity after another.
At least his daughter has turned out to be one of the few Republicans in the country with the honor and integrity needed to see obvious bullshit and call it out.
Gore remains the most brilliant VP pick of my life. Clinton did the exact opposite of conventional wisdom and chose his ideological and demographic twin in order to send a message. It was genius
you're right, but he also compensated some of Clinton flaws, for example his experience as a senator helped with Clinton's lack of federal experience, and he expecially helped because his public image and his character were waaaayyyy different from Clinton's
Man amazing if he hadn’t gone to Vietnam, he wouldn’t have been able to invent the internet from which we are using right now to browse 🤪
Edit: this was obviously a joke. Stop taking it seriously
This “joke” aggravates me to no end. Al Gore did not even remotely say he invented the Internet. What is true is that starting in the 1970s, Al Gore was promoting and supporting the technologies that led to the Internet, recognizing its potential. Without his key support and promotion, we may not have the Internet we do today.
As Vint Cerf (co-inventor of TCP/IP) wrote in 2000:
> The Vice President deserves credit for his early recognition of the value of high speed computing and communication and for his long-term and
consistent articulation of the potential value of the Internet to American citizens and industry and, indeed, to the rest of the world.
[source](https://web.eecs.umich.edu/~fessler/misc/funny/gore,net.txt)
Note: I know this is not a link to the original, but I have been in the Internet industry circa 2000, remember the original, and thanked Vint for the support of Al Gore when I met him in 2006. He said he wished it had done more.
Yes, I remember him talking about the coming “information super highway.” I didn’t know what he was talking about and didn’t pay much attention as I was a teen, but I realized what he meant years later.
Wait, are you saying there's a bullshit narrative in American politics that was invented by Republicans? Because I have never heard of them to be anything other than honest political operators, with the utmost integrity, certainly not so dishonest as to be led by one of the worst liars in the history of American politics.
Cool but that was a joke and wasn’t meant to be taken seriously as a claim he invented the internet.
You could’ve just said all that without trying to frame my comment as if I was intentionally disinforming, as it was a joke.l, asshole
Never, ever understood this. Should be a requirement to start any disagreement with “now I realize the man has done serious service to his country, BUT I just disagree with…”. Anything else is just dishonest.
This blew my f**king mind. Seriously how did I not know he not only served in the military but he enlisted. Dude was a college grad and could have gone OCS and been commissioned. This is honestly quite selfless.
Related: my buddy who goes on and on and on about how Carter had no business being CINC, didn’t know how to relate to the joint chiefs, couldn’t possibly understand what it means to lead men and women in arms. I’m like, “the dude was an officer in the Navy, WTF are you talking about? And you think Reagan, THE ACTOR, was the man to replace him as head of the military???”
Carter was hand picked by admiral Rickover to walk into the Chalk River nuclear reactor in meltdown and safely shut it down. He did so. Pissed radioactive pee for months.
“Umm well we know you served this country by being a serviceman who _walked into a fucking nuclear reactor core_ but yeah… you’re not as cool as the dude who worked with chimps”.
It’s amazing how many Democrat “wimps” actually served but guys like Reagan and Bush have this macho persona when it comes to military matters. An actor and the guy who got his daddy to get him out of actually going to Vietnam.
Kerry getting swift-boated was particularly low when his opponent had been in the "champagne unit" of the Air National Guard due to family influence. And allegedly was AWOL while avoiding drug tests.
His record with hard drugs should have been a disqualifier for CINC. If you can’t serve or hold a security clearance yourself, you should not be in charge of those who do.
The articles about Swift Boating contain a long and complex discussion of how the accusations were probably unfair and possibly dishonest. It is more important to note **THIS WAS THE MOSTLY THE WORK OF A HANDFUL OF VERY WEALTHY DONORS.**
More than half of the group's (Swift Boat Vets) reported contributions came from just three sources, all prominent [Texas](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas) Republican donors: [Houston](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houston) builder [**Bob J. Perry**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_J._Perry)**, a longtime supporter of** [**George W. Bush**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_W._Bush), donated $4.45 million, [**Harold Simmons**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Simmons)' Contrans donated $3 million, and [**T. Boone Pickens**, Jr.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T._Boone_Pickens,_Jr.) donated $2 million. Other major contributors included Bush fundraiser [**Carl Lindner**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Lindner,_Jr.) ($300,000), **Robert Lindner** ($260,000), GOP contributor [**Aubrey McClendon**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aubrey_McClendon) ($250,000), **George Matthews Jr.** ($250,000), and **Crow Holdings ($100,000)**.[^(\[88\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swift_Vets_and_POWs_for_Truth#cite_note-opensecrets-88)[^(\[89\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swift_Vets_and_POWs_for_Truth#cite_note-chronoctcontrib-89)[^(\[90\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swift_Vets_and_POWs_for_Truth#cite_note-tpjfactsheet-90)
>the accusations were probably unfair and possibly dishonest
This is a massive understatement and way too generous to the swift boat ads. They were most definitely bullshit.
The strange thing was how obvious the bullshit was, but so many were willing to believe it simply because Kerry was a Dem, and the "defenders of the military" were suddenly awol for similar reasons. In the end, Trumps attacks on McCain's military service sprang from the same well.
Literally the truth does not matter to these kinds of people. It is just all about saying whatever is necessary to fool enough voters so they can win.
The voters would not have believed those lies if they hadn't been able to get actual veterans who served with Kerry to lie. I always assumed they were resentful of Kerry for criticizing the American government for the Vietnam War, plus they were Republicans, and therefore they felt that this justified lying about him to help Bush win.
It's a weird thing to explain, but my experience is that Republicans actually believe that literally nothing is off the table when it comes to lying in American politics. It's just political campaign words to them to say that John Kerry was a coward who acted disgracefully when he was in Vietnam and does not deserve any of the numerous medals of valor he earned and in fact, he should have been dishonorably discharged. To them, that's just what you have to say to win and it does not matter if it is untrue, no matter how despicably dishonorable and disgraceful it is to tell that kind of lie. I wonder if any of those Swift Boat Veterans ever apologized to Kerry.
Incidentally, you can look back at the polling numbers in 2004, and those Swift Boat ads came out in August of 2004 and there was a 5 point swing in favor of Bush after those ads that Kerry never recovered, and so those ads certainly caused Kerry to lose a close election.
Didn't Pickens offer a prize or reward for information and proof about Kerry's service. When his crew mates did exactly that Pickens reneged and said that wasn't proof. What a shit.
Kerry mentions it as a mistake in his memoir; he was advised (by Bob Shrum iirc) not to "waste" air space addressing it and instead to let people naturally have enough of a sense of decency to tell apart fact from fiction.
LMAO. Yeah.
It sounds like he and Shrum weren't on great terms post-election. I can't imagine why.
The media consists of openly determined advocates for the reactionary right, and a bunch of companies who advocate a photofinish horserace. Anybody who openly advocates for Ds gets pig piled by the well funded reactionary right, so nobody touches that role. Meanwhile the horserace media raise their hands when the other team screams about "the extreme left."
There is no left. And there are very few advocates for honesty. We have the sports reporters and the home team reactionary columnists, that's it.
It takes owning media companies and giving out more political Advertising in the billions than the other.
Media tries to make things look like a close race so they get more money involved.
The Republicans love Political PACs since they don't have to report the donors or how much is spent .. but at the same time it is a tax write off. It is a charity right ..what a load of BS. It is a straight out bribe.
It took Republicans like Lowell Weicker and Archibald Cox to take down Nixon. Ronald Reagan got away with Iran Contra and was awarded naming rights to the DC airport.
The Rs do not seem to have taken power with integrity since Nixon beat Humphrey.
Actually, that was pretty dirty too:
[https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/08/06/nixon-vietnam-candidate-conspired-with-foreign-power-win-election-215461/](https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/08/06/nixon-vietnam-candidate-conspired-with-foreign-power-win-election-215461/)
People forging a memo in Microsoft Word (which is how they got caught - the font used in the memo wasn't even invented at the time Bush was in the Guard), claiming it was proof that Bush went AWOL was particularly low....
Lampooning Kerry for being 'for the war before he was against it' (eg, joining up when he thought it would be politically beneficial then becoming antiwar when it served his future political ambitions).... Was not ...
I remember when I visited Vietnam there was a whole memorial to John McCain at a prison in Hanoi. The government bastards there had the guts to mention he and other American troops were “well treated” and lived in “humane conditions”.
I've been there too. They have a photo of him receiving apparent medical attention from a VC doctor. They also have a statue of him being dragged from the water by West Lake
I went to ~~Saigon~~ Ho Ch Minh City and visited the ~~Exhibition House for US and Puppet Crimes~~ ~~Exhibition House for Crimes of War and Aggression~~ War Remnants Museum.
The name change of the museum was as educational as the museum.
Vietnam and the USA are on good terms these days because of mutual distrust of China.
There’s a lot of bullshit about the War that is tolerated on both sides to keep the relationship smooth.
There’s a strong case that Kerry lost mainly BECAUSE of his service in Vietnam. Bush had serious attack ads made on his behalf criticizing his “swift boat” service — really lowlife move, considering W never served in combat.
Kerry got a Purple Heart. Bush’s campaign attacked him for it.
Bush43 also lied about what planes he was cleared to fly. “Accidentally” forgetting to mention the F111 (which was flown until the gulf war)
Man I love the Andy Griffith show, Private Pyle was okay. Fun fact every season of the Carol Burnett Show started eith Jim Nabors since she considered him to be her good luck charm for a good season.
I'll never forget the hot-mike moment at the RNC right after they announced her. You can hear one of the host say "It's over."
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jnn5vm6X6Y4
Used to love when McCain went on the Daily show with Jon Stewart. Wish we had Republicans like him again. Definitely a kind of possible crossover vote for centrist Dems.
I read a McCains biography and I read that always at his town halls, he always said he would accept insults along with questions and comments which is something I don’t recall many other politicians doing. The biographer (I forgot his name) who spent a lot of time with McCain, also recalled how at one point, they were at some fair in Arizona and some woman went up to McCain and yelled at him for his more pro life views. McCain rejected any attempts by his staff to intervene, patiently listened to the woman for the duration of her rant, then the woman, apparently surprised by McCain still paying attention to her, toned things down and had a civil conversation with McCain. Not only was he a moderate, he always accepted other people’s views and respected them. That alone is something that is missing in both parties but more the current GOP.
To quote a famous politician and this is coming from a younger voter , I’m a Democrat and I love John McCain.
Same. If he ran against anyone but Obama I would have probably voted for him. The last of the Republicans that actually believed in working together for a better future
NO, Sarah Palin dragged him down. I liked McCain but I was NOT putting that crazy witch in the WH. I would’ve voted him in hoping he could get more done than Obama since we kept filling the other branches with republicans to stop progress.
That’s like putting MTG or Bobo in VP. F that. She was a walking nightmare.
100%, I was voting McCain until that choice. He had stage III melanoma prior to the election, and the survival rate of that meant there was a good chance she was going to end up being president. This switched my vote. I never understood the need to appeal to the more radical side of the party AFTER the primary.
McCain came at a bad time. When Bush had fucked things up solidly. But he wasn’t super media savvy.
Gore technically DID win. But, SCOTUS was “well Florida certified the result we wanted, so,, no need for the actual winner to win, let’s keep it this way”
Kerry got jobbed so badly “swiftboating” became a verb. A bunch of people “well, you weren’t wounded in the proper way, not like our dude ,. Umm.. the one that got daddy’s pull to get him to Air National Guard”. We should have paid more attention.
True leaders are not valued in America, only fictional ones. We’re a cartoon society tricking ourselves into some false sense of accomplishment. Facts: BAD……Opinions: GOOD
It infuriates me to no end to realize that the DNC could have pushed Jim Webb in 2016 and forever neutralized ANY reason for servicemembers and vets to vote red and yet they divided their support between Hilary and Bernie.
A bronze star recipient who drafted the key piece of legislation that stopped GWOT vets from experiencing what Vietnam Vets did VS a guy who dodged got 4 deferments (1 less than the current POTUS, but I degress) it would have been a key demographic turnover.
I'd disagree Vets vote against their own interests all the time.
See the votes for the Republicans who were high fiving about defeating the PACT Act. They also voted en masse for McCain who actively and vocally opposed the expansion of benefits after 9/11 and during wartime. After the Democrats took control of Congress and it was clear it would pass he skipped the vote to raise money in AZ. Then Bush signed it to not hurt him against Obama.
Hell even the VFW endorsed and contributed to the non-Veteran Republican opponent of Tammy Duckworth (who lost her legs when her apache was shot down) during the height of the Iraq War along with many of the aforementioned post 911 GI Bill opponents who would also vote against the PACT Act.
It shows how the Bush dynasty ..destroys people for absolutely things they would be proud of themselves.
They used the media Ailes..Limbaugh ..Atwater and Carl Rove ..Corsi and Roger Stone to destroy reputations. TO a cult like Evangelical Republicans ..who enjoyed every bit to spread rumors and create enemies out of fellow Americans..they are still doing it.
I mean I 100% get not going to Vietnam but the fact that we’ve had three draft dodgers in the White House and all three major Vietnam veterans who ran got absolutely shit on my mainstream conservatives to me really tells me the GOP has never really valued military service just only ever valued us as pawns in their games.
George Dubya was 'technically' a Vietnam era veteran. Clinton was a Rhodes scholar so he was off at college. That's about as legit a way out as humanly possible by the rules of the time. And ... rule three.
Because the morality of the war was far mor ambiguous compared to prior wars so those who served, despite the risks they, were not viewed through the same lens of heroism as WW2 veterans like Eisenhower, Carter, Bush 41 and JFK.
It will remain a notable bit of American history trivia that we never elected a veteran of the Vietnam War president.
What it means, that’s for future historians to parse.
I suddenly understand Lindsey Graham now. (Just kidding! I think.)
Also, what's with all these throwback pictures of politicians when they were attractive? First Gaddafi, then McCain...also I saw King Salman the other day, holy hell. Check out his Wikipedia.
I am not a US citizen but is that the same Al gore that south park made fun of ? The one that says I am super duper serious and being into conspiracies and stuff like that ? So why?
How did I not know Gore was in Nam. How did he not use that to emasculate Bush the Younger in the campaign?
Also, McCain was a fucking stud and a half.
GW Bush, a legal draft dodger through the national guard, managed to beat Gore and Kerry, both Vietnam veterans, while running on a platform of patriotism and pro military. Still amazes me🧐
Al Gore: Did not know how to stop being who he was in order to get college students(like me at the time) to vote for him. The hanging chads weren't what caused him to lose it was that he didn't not know when to shut up.
John Kerry: He is such a much more mellow Republican now.
John McCain: He waited until he was too old to run.
No one gives a shit if they have time served in the army or apparently if they're found guilty on 34 felony accounts. As long as they get to be corrupt as well in some way then they'll vote for them.
We have had so many WWII veterans become President but never had a Vietnam War veteran become President. We only had one WWI veteran become President (Truman) and one Spanish-American War Veteran become President (TR).
I hope the Iraq/Afghan veterans will not be excluded in the Presidential roll call of White House Residents.
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McCain was super handsome, huh?
He was apparently very popular with the ladies
Handsome pilot from a good family, no shit he was popular with the ladies
If only he got that pilot part down.
He went down alright
That’s why they liked him!
I mean, I'd let him.
He cheated on his wife.
So, yes?
I guess. Unfun fact. His wife was in a car accident with permanent disabilities. He was a POW. When he came back he saw she was in a wheelchair and fatter so he cheated on her and divorced her. She had a limp and so did John after being POW, but he dumped her. After he dumped her, Reagan felt so bad that he hired Carol McCain to be the director of the white house visitors office. John McCain admitted he left his wife due to being selfish and immature. Even Ross Perot, was friends with them, said McCain was horrible for dumping his wife.
Damn. Our boy McCain did a John Edwards...
Source? I found this on wikipedia: "In April 1979, John McCain started an affair with [Cindy Lou Hensley](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cindy_Hensley), an [Arizona](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arizona) special education teacher and [Hensley & Co.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hensley_%26_Co.) heiress.[^(\[21\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carol_McCain#cite_note-Kristof-21) He then pushed to end their marriage, and friends described Carol as being in shock.[^(\[21\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carol_McCain#cite_note-Kristof-21) The McCains stopped cohabitating in January 1980; he filed for divorce in February 1980,[^(\[12\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carol_McCain#cite_note-lat071108-12) which she accepted.[^(\[21\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carol_McCain#cite_note-Kristof-21) When asked by a friend what had gone wrong, she said, "It's just one of those things."[^(\[21\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carol_McCain#cite_note-Kristof-21) The uncontested divorce became official in [Fort Walton Beach](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Walton_Beach,_Florida) on April 2, 1980.[^(\[35\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carol_McCain#cite_note-alexander-92-35) Her ex-husband would later state that he felt the demise of his marriage was due to his "selfishness and immaturity more than it was to Vietnam, and I cannot escape blame by pointing a finger at the war. The blame was entirely mine."[^(\[31\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carol_McCain#cite_note-az-arizona-31) **Regarding her divorce, McCain said, "The breakup of our marriage was not caused by my accident or Vietnam or any of those things. I don't know that it might not have happened if John had never been gone. I attribute it more to John turning 40 and wanting to be 25 again than I do to anything else."**[**^(\[31\])**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carol_McCain#cite_note-az-arizona-31) **John McCain's biographer** [**Robert Timberg**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Timberg) **wrote, however, "Vietnam did play a part, perhaps not the major part, but more than a walk-on."**[^(\[36\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carol_McCain#cite_note-timberg-125-36) Ross Perot gave his own assessment of the McCain divorce: "After he came home, he walked with a limp, she \[Carol McCain\] walked with a limp. So he threw her over for a poster girl with big money from Arizona \[Cindy McCain\] and the rest is history."[^(\[23\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carol_McCain#cite_note-limp-23) McCain's three children were initially upset with their father about the divorce, but later reconciled with him." Not trying to be a dick, just saying it seems more complicated than "she was fatter."
Dumped his wife to marry a rich girl to fund his ambitions with Budweiser money.
I didn't know he was a firefighter as well.
Yeah, he even helped spawn that far useless mouthpiece of a daughter who constantly tells people not to bring up her father while simultaneously bringing up her father any chance she gets and takes credit for it.
https://youtu.be/M4d8jWOOaCI?si=R5k6Z4_NKNe220z5
Yeah no homo that was my second thought. My first was that it’s funny Gore is the biggest nerd yet he’s pictured strapped up and ready to move out.
Do we know what he was up to over there? He coulda been a stone cold supersoldier.
I think he was a combat engineer of some sort. By his own admission he didn't really fight, though he and his unit were shot at occasionally
He was a journalist. First at Ft. Rucker (now named Ft. Novosel), then in Viet Nam he wrote for the Castle Courier, the newspaper of the Army engineers. Kudos to Gore for enlisting because he didn’t want someone to go in his place.
Learned something new today. Didn’t realize Gore was in Vietnam Nam. Good for him.
Ya, his military service was barely mentioned in his campaign, compared to Bush, Kerry and McCain where it was front and center.
I clearly remember it being part of the montage that introduced him at the convention. Definitely emphasized the journalism and that it was evidence of patriotism as well as intelligence and analysis. Other than that you didn’t hear much about it. Probably because they were hammering Bush for dodging.
Bush’s military career, such as it was, was most definitely not front and center
> he didn’t want someone to go in his place. Al Gore's father was running for re-election and was a critic of the Vietnam War. It was a combination of wanting to serve his country and not wanting to give his father's republican opponent ammunition to criticize his father if he did not serve.
True. Al Gore Sr. And Jr. were in multiple campaign ads together with Jr. in uniform. As a vet I think that’s at a minimum tacky.
Thank you for that, I couldn't remember anything other than him having something to do with engineers lol
Notable that all three of these guys were rich kids with loads of connections, easily the demographic most likely to avoid Vietnam and also why we haven't had a Vietnam-vet president. McCain of course didn't really have a choice, though he gets credit for refusing to be released early as a POW due to his dad.
Kept Charlie up at night.
Quite a hunk
He kinds looks like Nick Stokes from CSI Las Vegas.
Henry Rollins to me, oof
That's not McCain, that's a male model.
But why male models?
Male models are genetically constructed to become assassins.
But why male models?
Are you serious? He just told you.
I have a feeling this is a Zoolander reference I'm not remembering
Are...are you serious? I just told you that.
She said, that was the largest penis I've ever seen! I said, i know that's why I took you to the penis museum where tickets are a thousand dollars.
Lol, nice to see someone got the reference.
Help us out stranger!
But why male models?
Jfc McCain was a panty dropper.
You should read about the time he picked up a hooker named Marie, the Flame of Florida.
...Al Gore went to Vietnam?
Yep. Volunteered for service when he pretty easily could have gotten out of it given his father was a Senator.
I've never been an Al Gore fan but he's earned some cred from me for that
Al gore was a democratic senator from Tennessee. He is an amazing man.
Ya, we joke about Cheney being the most powerful VP, but Gore was probably the most influential. He did a lot of competent shit while VP, most of it quiet and under the radar without making a big splash. Charisma of a lemon though.
He was the first person I got to vote for at 19. Lost all hope after that. Watched my brother get stop lost back to Iraq two years later to a war I never bought into. Adulthood has never been good thinking back. One atrocity after another.
Dick Cheney said he had better things to do with his life than serve in the Vietnam War.
At least his daughter has turned out to be one of the few Republicans in the country with the honor and integrity needed to see obvious bullshit and call it out.
Let's be honest though, the bar for republicans is so low it's a tripping hazard in hell.
Let me tell you about the time she threw her sister under the bus in order to get elected.
Gore remains the most brilliant VP pick of my life. Clinton did the exact opposite of conventional wisdom and chose his ideological and demographic twin in order to send a message. It was genius
you're right, but he also compensated some of Clinton flaws, for example his experience as a senator helped with Clinton's lack of federal experience, and he expecially helped because his public image and his character were waaaayyyy different from Clinton's
Man amazing if he hadn’t gone to Vietnam, he wouldn’t have been able to invent the internet from which we are using right now to browse 🤪 Edit: this was obviously a joke. Stop taking it seriously
This “joke” aggravates me to no end. Al Gore did not even remotely say he invented the Internet. What is true is that starting in the 1970s, Al Gore was promoting and supporting the technologies that led to the Internet, recognizing its potential. Without his key support and promotion, we may not have the Internet we do today. As Vint Cerf (co-inventor of TCP/IP) wrote in 2000: > The Vice President deserves credit for his early recognition of the value of high speed computing and communication and for his long-term and consistent articulation of the potential value of the Internet to American citizens and industry and, indeed, to the rest of the world. [source](https://web.eecs.umich.edu/~fessler/misc/funny/gore,net.txt) Note: I know this is not a link to the original, but I have been in the Internet industry circa 2000, remember the original, and thanked Vint for the support of Al Gore when I met him in 2006. He said he wished it had done more.
Yes, I remember him talking about the coming “information super highway.” I didn’t know what he was talking about and didn’t pay much attention as I was a teen, but I realized what he meant years later.
Wait, are you saying there's a bullshit narrative in American politics that was invented by Republicans? Because I have never heard of them to be anything other than honest political operators, with the utmost integrity, certainly not so dishonest as to be led by one of the worst liars in the history of American politics.
Facts don't matter, dyk!
That’s why we are in the mess we are now.
To Republicans
Cool but that was a joke and wasn’t meant to be taken seriously as a claim he invented the internet. You could’ve just said all that without trying to frame my comment as if I was intentionally disinforming, as it was a joke.l, asshole
Go to hell where you can perform lap dances for Reagan
Dang don’t take a joke so seriously
The Al Gore Rhythm /s
"it ain't me, it ain't meeee"
"I ain't no Senator's son..." Oh, wait.
So is he or is he not a fortunate one 🤔
I guess unfortunate? From what I know he never saw combat but his unit got shot a few times
Kerry chose the hard path too. So did McCain. MAGAs hate all of them.
Never, ever understood this. Should be a requirement to start any disagreement with “now I realize the man has done serious service to his country, BUT I just disagree with…”. Anything else is just dishonest.
Even worse, some assholes that served with Kerry lied for W. Absolute human trash
This blew my f**king mind. Seriously how did I not know he not only served in the military but he enlisted. Dude was a college grad and could have gone OCS and been commissioned. This is honestly quite selfless.
He volunteered even though he opposed the war and could have easily sidestepped it due to his father, just straight up thought it was his duty
No they actually just Forrest Gumped him into some photos. /s
Related: my buddy who goes on and on and on about how Carter had no business being CINC, didn’t know how to relate to the joint chiefs, couldn’t possibly understand what it means to lead men and women in arms. I’m like, “the dude was an officer in the Navy, WTF are you talking about? And you think Reagan, THE ACTOR, was the man to replace him as head of the military???”
Carter was hand picked by admiral Rickover to walk into the Chalk River nuclear reactor in meltdown and safely shut it down. He did so. Pissed radioactive pee for months. “Umm well we know you served this country by being a serviceman who _walked into a fucking nuclear reactor core_ but yeah… you’re not as cool as the dude who worked with chimps”.
Carter walking into Three Mile Island and having a pretty good idea of what was going on was much more badass than he ever got credit for.
I vaguely remember a SNL skit on Carter at 3 mile island. I wonder if the writers knew about chalk river
And they lied to him through their teeth, the morons. They forgot he was a nuclear engineer.
I knew he served on subs, hadn’t heard that story though! Carter: certified badass.
It’s amazing how many Democrat “wimps” actually served but guys like Reagan and Bush have this macho persona when it comes to military matters. An actor and the guy who got his daddy to get him out of actually going to Vietnam.
Kerry getting swift-boated was particularly low when his opponent had been in the "champagne unit" of the Air National Guard due to family influence. And allegedly was AWOL while avoiding drug tests.
You gotta give it to Dubya. He joined the Texas Air National Guard and did a wonderful job protecting Texas from Oklahoma.
His record with hard drugs should have been a disqualifier for CINC. If you can’t serve or hold a security clearance yourself, you should not be in charge of those who do.
There is a saying in Texas: “I’ve been to Oklahoma and I’ve been to Mexico. We’re guarding the wrong river.”
The articles about Swift Boating contain a long and complex discussion of how the accusations were probably unfair and possibly dishonest. It is more important to note **THIS WAS THE MOSTLY THE WORK OF A HANDFUL OF VERY WEALTHY DONORS.** More than half of the group's (Swift Boat Vets) reported contributions came from just three sources, all prominent [Texas](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas) Republican donors: [Houston](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houston) builder [**Bob J. Perry**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bob_J._Perry)**, a longtime supporter of** [**George W. Bush**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_W._Bush), donated $4.45 million, [**Harold Simmons**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harold_Simmons)' Contrans donated $3 million, and [**T. Boone Pickens**, Jr.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T._Boone_Pickens,_Jr.) donated $2 million. Other major contributors included Bush fundraiser [**Carl Lindner**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carl_Lindner,_Jr.) ($300,000), **Robert Lindner** ($260,000), GOP contributor [**Aubrey McClendon**](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aubrey_McClendon) ($250,000), **George Matthews Jr.** ($250,000), and **Crow Holdings ($100,000)**.[^(\[88\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swift_Vets_and_POWs_for_Truth#cite_note-opensecrets-88)[^(\[89\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swift_Vets_and_POWs_for_Truth#cite_note-chronoctcontrib-89)[^(\[90\])](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swift_Vets_and_POWs_for_Truth#cite_note-tpjfactsheet-90)
>the accusations were probably unfair and possibly dishonest This is a massive understatement and way too generous to the swift boat ads. They were most definitely bullshit.
The strange thing was how obvious the bullshit was, but so many were willing to believe it simply because Kerry was a Dem, and the "defenders of the military" were suddenly awol for similar reasons. In the end, Trumps attacks on McCain's military service sprang from the same well.
Literally the truth does not matter to these kinds of people. It is just all about saying whatever is necessary to fool enough voters so they can win. The voters would not have believed those lies if they hadn't been able to get actual veterans who served with Kerry to lie. I always assumed they were resentful of Kerry for criticizing the American government for the Vietnam War, plus they were Republicans, and therefore they felt that this justified lying about him to help Bush win. It's a weird thing to explain, but my experience is that Republicans actually believe that literally nothing is off the table when it comes to lying in American politics. It's just political campaign words to them to say that John Kerry was a coward who acted disgracefully when he was in Vietnam and does not deserve any of the numerous medals of valor he earned and in fact, he should have been dishonorably discharged. To them, that's just what you have to say to win and it does not matter if it is untrue, no matter how despicably dishonorable and disgraceful it is to tell that kind of lie. I wonder if any of those Swift Boat Veterans ever apologized to Kerry. Incidentally, you can look back at the polling numbers in 2004, and those Swift Boat ads came out in August of 2004 and there was a 5 point swing in favor of Bush after those ads that Kerry never recovered, and so those ads certainly caused Kerry to lose a close election.
Didn't Pickens offer a prize or reward for information and proof about Kerry's service. When his crew mates did exactly that Pickens reneged and said that wasn't proof. What a shit.
And the worst thing was, the Democrats did absolute fuck all to counter it! Not a peep even from Kerry himself!
Kerry mentions it as a mistake in his memoir; he was advised (by Bob Shrum iirc) not to "waste" air space addressing it and instead to let people naturally have enough of a sense of decency to tell apart fact from fiction. LMAO. Yeah. It sounds like he and Shrum weren't on great terms post-election. I can't imagine why.
“Decency”, ha! The last fools who believed in that old thing.
Dems are hopeless at political messaging and media influence, even charisma superstars like Bill Clinton and Obama can barely hold their own.
The media consists of openly determined advocates for the reactionary right, and a bunch of companies who advocate a photofinish horserace. Anybody who openly advocates for Ds gets pig piled by the well funded reactionary right, so nobody touches that role. Meanwhile the horserace media raise their hands when the other team screams about "the extreme left." There is no left. And there are very few advocates for honesty. We have the sports reporters and the home team reactionary columnists, that's it.
It takes owning media companies and giving out more political Advertising in the billions than the other. Media tries to make things look like a close race so they get more money involved. The Republicans love Political PACs since they don't have to report the donors or how much is spent .. but at the same time it is a tax write off. It is a charity right ..what a load of BS. It is a straight out bribe.
It took Republicans like Lowell Weicker and Archibald Cox to take down Nixon. Ronald Reagan got away with Iran Contra and was awarded naming rights to the DC airport. The Rs do not seem to have taken power with integrity since Nixon beat Humphrey.
Actually, that was pretty dirty too: [https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/08/06/nixon-vietnam-candidate-conspired-with-foreign-power-win-election-215461/](https://www.politico.com/magazine/story/2017/08/06/nixon-vietnam-candidate-conspired-with-foreign-power-win-election-215461/)
The Dems didn't own the media like the Repubs. Despite what FOX news and Right Wing Evangelicals profess.
One of the most evil political ad campaigns ever ran. Still makes my blood boil to this day.
It was bad, but they’ve gotten worse.
People forging a memo in Microsoft Word (which is how they got caught - the font used in the memo wasn't even invented at the time Bush was in the Guard), claiming it was proof that Bush went AWOL was particularly low.... Lampooning Kerry for being 'for the war before he was against it' (eg, joining up when he thought it would be politically beneficial then becoming antiwar when it served his future political ambitions).... Was not ...
I remember when I visited Vietnam there was a whole memorial to John McCain at a prison in Hanoi. The government bastards there had the guts to mention he and other American troops were “well treated” and lived in “humane conditions”.
I've been there too. They have a photo of him receiving apparent medical attention from a VC doctor. They also have a statue of him being dragged from the water by West Lake
You mean NVA?
No one likes to remember their fuck ups.
I went to ~~Saigon~~ Ho Ch Minh City and visited the ~~Exhibition House for US and Puppet Crimes~~ ~~Exhibition House for Crimes of War and Aggression~~ War Remnants Museum. The name change of the museum was as educational as the museum.
Vietnam and the USA are on good terms these days because of mutual distrust of China. There’s a lot of bullshit about the War that is tolerated on both sides to keep the relationship smooth.
Yeah, who would ever think that nations might have their own version of history? Thank God we don't do that here in Merica... /s
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Ouch! Ouch! Both feet!
"I can't breathe...in Vietnam."
There’s a strong case that Kerry lost mainly BECAUSE of his service in Vietnam. Bush had serious attack ads made on his behalf criticizing his “swift boat” service — really lowlife move, considering W never served in combat.
Kerry got a Purple Heart. Bush’s campaign attacked him for it. Bush43 also lied about what planes he was cleared to fly. “Accidentally” forgetting to mention the F111 (which was flown until the gulf war)
3 purple hearts.
I think the impact of that ad is wildly overblown. Bush was not losing that election
Kerry looks a bit like Jim Nabors in that photo.
Welllll Goollllllyyyyyy
Shazam!
Man I love the Andy Griffith show, Private Pyle was okay. Fun fact every season of the Carol Burnett Show started eith Jim Nabors since she considered him to be her good luck charm for a good season.
That’s what I popped in to say.
I’m disgusted to this day by the right-wingers’ smear campaign against Kerry.
I'm a registered Democrat, but I loved John McCain...
Would have voted for him if he hadn’t picked a nut job as a running mate.
I'll never forget the hot-mike moment at the RNC right after they announced her. You can hear one of the host say "It's over." https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jnn5vm6X6Y4
Used to love when McCain went on the Daily show with Jon Stewart. Wish we had Republicans like him again. Definitely a kind of possible crossover vote for centrist Dems.
I read a McCains biography and I read that always at his town halls, he always said he would accept insults along with questions and comments which is something I don’t recall many other politicians doing. The biographer (I forgot his name) who spent a lot of time with McCain, also recalled how at one point, they were at some fair in Arizona and some woman went up to McCain and yelled at him for his more pro life views. McCain rejected any attempts by his staff to intervene, patiently listened to the woman for the duration of her rant, then the woman, apparently surprised by McCain still paying attention to her, toned things down and had a civil conversation with McCain. Not only was he a moderate, he always accepted other people’s views and respected them. That alone is something that is missing in both parties but more the current GOP. To quote a famous politician and this is coming from a younger voter , I’m a Democrat and I love John McCain.
There was once rumors that he was going to switch parties.
When McCain refused to cancel the Obamacare he did switch parties, for a hot minute anyways
Same. If he ran against anyone but Obama I would have probably voted for him. The last of the Republicans that actually believed in working together for a better future
NO, Sarah Palin dragged him down. I liked McCain but I was NOT putting that crazy witch in the WH. I would’ve voted him in hoping he could get more done than Obama since we kept filling the other branches with republicans to stop progress. That’s like putting MTG or Bobo in VP. F that. She was a walking nightmare.
100%, I was voting McCain until that choice. He had stage III melanoma prior to the election, and the survival rate of that meant there was a good chance she was going to end up being president. This switched my vote. I never understood the need to appeal to the more radical side of the party AFTER the primary.
This sub will suck any president off for free.
McCain? Would.
McCain came at a bad time. When Bush had fucked things up solidly. But he wasn’t super media savvy. Gore technically DID win. But, SCOTUS was “well Florida certified the result we wanted, so,, no need for the actual winner to win, let’s keep it this way” Kerry got jobbed so badly “swiftboating” became a verb. A bunch of people “well, you weren’t wounded in the proper way, not like our dude ,. Umm.. the one that got daddy’s pull to get him to Air National Guard”. We should have paid more attention.
True leaders are not valued in America, only fictional ones. We’re a cartoon society tricking ourselves into some false sense of accomplishment. Facts: BAD……Opinions: GOOD
All of them also had the opposition party trash their service in smear campaigns. The US loves to both worship and shit on those who served.
It infuriates me to no end to realize that the DNC could have pushed Jim Webb in 2016 and forever neutralized ANY reason for servicemembers and vets to vote red and yet they divided their support between Hilary and Bernie. A bronze star recipient who drafted the key piece of legislation that stopped GWOT vets from experiencing what Vietnam Vets did VS a guy who dodged got 4 deferments (1 less than the current POTUS, but I degress) it would have been a key demographic turnover.
I'd disagree Vets vote against their own interests all the time. See the votes for the Republicans who were high fiving about defeating the PACT Act. They also voted en masse for McCain who actively and vocally opposed the expansion of benefits after 9/11 and during wartime. After the Democrats took control of Congress and it was clear it would pass he skipped the vote to raise money in AZ. Then Bush signed it to not hurt him against Obama. Hell even the VFW endorsed and contributed to the non-Veteran Republican opponent of Tammy Duckworth (who lost her legs when her apache was shot down) during the height of the Iraq War along with many of the aforementioned post 911 GI Bill opponents who would also vote against the PACT Act.
Gore didn’t lose his elections. It was a TIE. (Fish Called Wanda reference which in his case was way too accurate)
I'm tellin' you baby, they kicked your ass there.
It shows how the Bush dynasty ..destroys people for absolutely things they would be proud of themselves. They used the media Ailes..Limbaugh ..Atwater and Carl Rove ..Corsi and Roger Stone to destroy reputations. TO a cult like Evangelical Republicans ..who enjoyed every bit to spread rumors and create enemies out of fellow Americans..they are still doing it.
I’ve read surveys before- Americans distrust Vietnam vets. It’s not fair at all. But it’s in surveys that I read.
They should have claimed bone spurs.
I mean I 100% get not going to Vietnam but the fact that we’ve had three draft dodgers in the White House and all three major Vietnam veterans who ran got absolutely shit on my mainstream conservatives to me really tells me the GOP has never really valued military service just only ever valued us as pawns in their games.
George Dubya was 'technically' a Vietnam era veteran. Clinton was a Rhodes scholar so he was off at college. That's about as legit a way out as humanly possible by the rules of the time. And ... rule three.
Bush was not. He was national guard and never called to active duty which means from a purely legalistic standpoint he’s not a veteran.
Gore earned the presidency
Because the morality of the war was far mor ambiguous compared to prior wars so those who served, despite the risks they, were not viewed through the same lens of heroism as WW2 veterans like Eisenhower, Carter, Bush 41 and JFK.
It will remain a notable bit of American history trivia that we never elected a veteran of the Vietnam War president. What it means, that’s for future historians to parse.
3 draft dodgers won!
Incredibly, in 1988 -- just four years before Clinton -- it was a huge issue that Quayle was a draft dodger.
After Carter we had three draft dodgers and another who did not serve as presidents.
*After HW
Kerry looks zesty af
I suddenly understand Lindsey Graham now. (Just kidding! I think.) Also, what's with all these throwback pictures of politicians when they were attractive? First Gaddafi, then McCain...also I saw King Salman the other day, holy hell. Check out his Wikipedia.
And yet a bunch of psychotic idiots elected a draft dodger.
Bush43 didn’t dodge the draft, but his daddy did pull strings to keep him out of Vietnam. Shrub also lied about what planes he knew how to fly.
So clearly, the Bible Belt believes that military men should serve, but only if they win…
I am not a US citizen but is that the same Al gore that south park made fun of ? The one that says I am super duper serious and being into conspiracies and stuff like that ? So why?
How did I not know Gore was in Nam. How did he not use that to emasculate Bush the Younger in the campaign? Also, McCain was a fucking stud and a half.
GW Bush, a legal draft dodger through the national guard, managed to beat Gore and Kerry, both Vietnam veterans, while running on a platform of patriotism and pro military. Still amazes me🧐
The GOP is the “loving troops party” and the same party that never supports them. They just like the flags and songs and candidates with deferments.
They don't love the troops, they love the idea of the troops. Actual service members who have wants and needs, not so much.
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Bush2, Clinton, the guy after Obama, and the guy we have now all avoided the draft. (Obama was too young.)
Huh....legit did not know that Gore had been in Vietnam.
Just like how they lost the war…
No one wants a loser. /s
I genuinely did not know that Al Gore was in Vietnam.
Al Gore: Did not know how to stop being who he was in order to get college students(like me at the time) to vote for him. The hanging chads weren't what caused him to lose it was that he didn't not know when to shut up. John Kerry: He is such a much more mellow Republican now. John McCain: He waited until he was too old to run.
Dukakis
Chad McCain
Al Gore never capitalized on that aspect of his life. Maybe it would have hurt him with his base. God knows Clinton never helped him.
He went for a few months as a reporter.
Their losses were also consecutive to each other
Has no idea about Gore and his service.
Just like the war....
No one gives a shit if they have time served in the army or apparently if they're found guilty on 34 felony accounts. As long as they get to be corrupt as well in some way then they'll vote for them.
It is strange that they'll probably be zero presidents that served in Vietnam considering there was over a decade of involvement and conscription.
We have had so many WWII veterans become President but never had a Vietnam War veteran become President. We only had one WWI veteran become President (Truman) and one Spanish-American War Veteran become President (TR). I hope the Iraq/Afghan veterans will not be excluded in the Presidential roll call of White House Residents.
Note to myself: DO NOT FIGHT IN THE VIETNAM WAR
The whole Vietnam war was foreshadowing
John Kerry looks like Gomer Pyle