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So many people don't seem to realize that college admin is extremely liberal and theoretically loves this kind of stuff until it starts to disrupt the operation of the university. At that point, they call in the cops.
The amount of speed that they make this kind of videos public, compared to when they are actually at fault, is mind blowing. Talking about all the PD’s of course, not the protesters
Devil's advocate: investigations that don't clearly show lack of fault last longer and you don't typically release things that might be used in investigations, internal or otherwise.
In reality it's safe to say that they're not looking for fault during those investigations but rather looking for ways to prove they weren't at fault, but the same rules apply.
Makes sense. When someone thinks the police are "at fault", someone probably sues and then there's likely court procedures involved and some legal process preventing the immediate release of a video.
When an incident like the above video happens and no one is immediately suing the police over it, there's literally no roadblock to just release the video.
several police ( all police at the scene) lied about a little kidnaped girl running towards them for help. They all said she had a weapon. They hid the video for 2 years. Video shows they blasted the fuck out of her and she was unarmed and just wanted help. Are they going to be charged any time soon for her murder?
Maybe because it somehow takes 2 years to release a video of police murdering a 15 year old girl that had been kidnapped and was following an officer's commands.
https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2024-04-01/kidnapped-teen-killed-by-deputies-as-she-followed-their-instructions-video
1.) the protest is bad because it's not being done in the correct way as I define it 2.) historically, when it comes down to clashes with the police, young people and protesting college students in particular have always been on the wrong side of history 3.) they were singing about not being moved, meaning they literally thought they were magically protected from being moved. This is humorous and thus we can dismiss their concerns as being illegitimate. These three unassailable facts inform my opinion on these demonstrations (/s)
In the armies defense, the miners wives and children had it coming too. /s
(in case anyone doesn't know: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludlow_Massacre)
I had no idea about this. I swear... I am 35 years old and still learning about atrocities that happened in our own country. Our whitewashed historical education is a joke. I didn't learn about the Tulsa Race Massacre until Watchmen aired on HBO. I initially thought it was alternative history since that material has altered real history in its lore. So, thank you for sharing. I hate it to see it, but it is important to know.
You know what’s super sad? The MAJORITY of people didn’t learn about the Tulsa race massacre until watchmen. Me included. And the news articles surrounding it if not the show itself. They just cover this kind of stuff up and pretend it never happened.
It isn't just history about racial tensions they don't want you to learn. Gun rights essentially came about to stop enslaved people from revolting, but post civil rights era, the NRA started pushing the "God given right" BS and stopped with the safety and hunter's ed.
Labor movements or people doing things to better themselves like striking? Yeah we don't want to teach that. There's a reason you get to the Civil War and a little bit of Reconstruction (enough to spin it like we fixed our own problems before trying to fix the world's in 1914/17) and then the history classes hit the big ol "reset" button and start back over at either American History, or all the way back to the dawn of civilization- Egypt (according to most US books, you might get Mesopotamia and some others before that if you're post 2000 education)...
If you haven't read Howard Zinn's A People's History of the United States, I'd suggest checking it out. It has some criticisms of reducing historical conflicts to black and white, good vs evil narratives, but you learn of some things done in our history that truly were evil.
Wrote my senior thesis on the Ludlow Massacre. It was fucking insane, but it also gave us the most basic labor laws in the country.
In other words, shit doesn't change unless blood is spilled. It's a really sad fact, but a fact nonetheless. Welcome to America, the land of the free (unless you're unhappy and seek reform!)
Somewhat related, I've seen so many people unironically blaming arrested protestors for the mess left behind when police raided their encampment and trashed the place, and then arrested them leaving them, you know... unable to clean it up.
Ole Miss riot of 1962 protesting desegregation. Wasn't all students, but most of these protests aren't either.
>[The Ole Miss riot began on Sept. 30, 1962, when an angry mob of white students, Oxford citizens and segregationists from outside Oxford stormed through the campus and confronted National Guard troops and U.S. marshals sent to enforce Meredith’s right to attend the state’s flagship university.](https://flagpole.com/news/street-scribe/2022/09/28/remembering-the-riots-when-james-meredith-integrated-ole-miss-60-years-ago/)
Well put. Especially unassailable point two, it's definitely the strongest.
Thanks for the chuckle, you point out the absurdity of the reaction to this situation really concisely.
Literally me yesterday:
>You have a right to protest...
>*...except on private property*
>*... Except after dark*
>*... Except about our policies*
>*... Except about genocide*
>*... Except against authority*
>*... Except in front of libraries*
>*... Except in front of schools*
>*... Except during lunch time*
>*... Except during school hours*
>*... Except during finals week*
>*... Except in the morning*
>*... Except organized and together*
>*... except loudly*
>*.... Except quietly*
>*... Except talking to cameras*
>*... Except resisting arrest*
>*... Except with signs*
>*... Except during dinner*
>>"Of course you can stand up for what you believe in! You have rights you know!"
I'm going to try and word this carefully. I am absolutely against the killing of innocent people. I'm against us sending aid money to support mass murder of non combatant persons. But what I don't see or get is...what is the solution? This is an area of the world that has been in utter turmoil since the times of Jesus. There has never been peace in this area of the world. Since we could pick up stones, people have been fighting in that area. What do you propose the answer is? Because even if all aid stopped and Hamas gained more power...all they would do is start bombing the ever loving shit out of Israel. Would the protestors start defending Israel? I'm sorry, but there is no peaceful resolution to this. Even if Israel wipes Gaza off the face of the earth...next up is Iran. That whole area is fucked. I already know idiots with no reading comprehension are going to jump down my throat saying I support baby killing, meanwhile I never took a side or said that. I just want to hear what a resolution is other than...stop that's bad.
I do agree generally. It seems like the conflict over there is never going to end, just adopt different masks.
But really, the solution is to stop picking a side at all, and leave them to it. Not implicitly condoning the war crimes of a significantly larger, better armed, and all around more powerful country who should be "the good guys", and also not giving any support to Hamas (already largely the case).
Any and all support should be going to civilians in need.
The solution is to create a demilitarized zone that is governed by an international cooperative. Neither side gets control of the region. Everyone is given free, but regulated access.
I call it the "Zero-State Solution."
What is happening in Gaza is sanctioned by the US - without the US government handing over unlimited funds and weapons/ordinance, Israel would not be conducting an ethnic cleansing.
Im curious to what your thoughts are on the Saudi-Israel deal that was on track until October 7th? Who would not benefit from a two state solution and normalized relations with the biggest state actor in the region with israel? Who has Saudi Arabia been in proxy war with in Yemen? Why would the CCP force project by sending warships to the med? How did the Attack on October 7th benefit Putin?
Im also curious on your thoughts that Israel declared war on Hamas. Keeping in mind that the US hasent declared War since World War 2 (which only ended when those governments officially surrendered, it didnt end with Hitler shooting himself, the war didnt end the day the bombs were dropped on Hirshomia or nagasaki), even the Russians have declared Ukraine a special military operation, with Casualties now pushing 650,000+.
The IDF should have set up refugee camps for Women and children only, MAM's seperated. They should be working with the PNA with this process still in line with the frame work of the two state solution under Bidens deal.
The point of illustrating all of this, is this war is more than Gaza, and state and non state actors all have agendas being played out that are playing on the emotions of everyone as a means to their end. The only way to save everyone is to recognize that, demand Hama's as an apparatus surrender, and immediately get back on track to a two state solution. This though is unfeasible at this point due to both sides going down a very narrow path of choices.
> Because even if all aid stopped and Hamas gained more power...all they would do is start bombing the ever loving shit out of Israel.
Here's the problem with your comment, this is a false dichotomy. For decades Israel has undermined any kind of civilian authority in Palestine. The solution is to allow them to have a state, to empower a Palestinian Authority, but first of all, to give them hope, so extremism and self immolation are not seen as their only viable option. Hamas is not Palestine and Palestine is not Hamas, they are but a tiny minority that does not represent millions of Palestinians as a whole.
This type of defeatism is just dumb and anti-historic, Europe, for most of it's history, has been submerged in wars as well, does that mean peace is not a meaningful goal to achieve there as well?
Yep - entire region has been a powder keg since the dawn of modern history. That's precisely why the CIA has been sticking its nose into these countries for decades - the best you can hope for is keeping things somewhat stable, and that doesn't happen without constant intervention.
Otherwise there is no solution. You'd basically be asking all these deeply religious nations to go completely secular, and that seems about as likely as them all just spontaneously deciding to hold hands and be best friends.
TLDR We might not be able to stop the conflict in the middle east but that doesn't mean we should idly by while a regime that we support and have influence over is bombing civilians. We can affect that. We can't stop everything, but we CAN do something to stop this.
Your point is fine, but it isn't relevant. You are inserting a wholly different question/problem into these protests that aren't even addressing it.
Protests are better than 'stop that's bad', which is better than silence and apathy. No, it won't solve the conflict but you are inserting that as a requirement or goal when it doesn't need to be. A regime is brutalizing civilians, we are supporting it, so they protest. "but will this bring peace to the middle east?" is a non-sequitur.
These kids are certainly fighting and willing to face consequence for what they believe in - the fact that they dont want to be complicit in mass killing of civilians in Gaza.
Regardless of how ridiculous you think they are, they are at least standing up for what they believe in.
If you're an American, by default a portion of your wages funds it. I think that's the general theme they're getting at is they don't want to be involuntarily involved.
Honestly they should just put this policy up for a referendum or something. Except they won't because they'll lose by a mile. So they resort to just beating people until they shut up.
Are they sending money or are they just invested in the stock market?
Literally every tax paying US citizen is complicit in sending money directly to Israel and funding the killing in Gaza thanks to congress sending billions of dollars of direct aid.
They are sending money, as in making the DECISION to send money.
I don't have that choice, my tax dollars are being used to help fund an ethnic cleansing. You can't draw a comparison when one is unwilling and the other is not.
They can also protest against it? Considering it's funding an ethnic cleansing. What other foreign conflicts have you sided against protestors with? Vietnam? Afghanistan?
Tuition has already been paid at this point in the year, for one. Not paying means they transfer to a different university which, for many, would be incredibly costly or require uprooting their lives. The protests are intended to drive change in a place that they already support/live in, why is that so difficult to comprehend?
It's like if you worked at a company that was partnered with some entity that conducted itself in a morally/ethically appalling way and me telling you to quit that job. If it were that simple, sure, but it seldom ever is.
Standing up for what you believe in is not inherently good. What if I believe in Gaza should be razed to the ground? Are me and homies admirable if we go demonstrate for that?
A "sit in"... They're vandalizing the university campus, taking up other student's valuable/shared space, and threatening people on campus who don't directly align with their beliefs. The university systems let this get out of control, and people blame the cops when they have to (rightfully) bust these shenanigans up.
I mean, considering they have hydraulic cutting tools, Id say thats about as good as could be conjured in theory from a couple of chains, tables and chairs aith that weird ass metal grille thing on top.
If it makes you feel any better: a lot of this reddit shit is costing someone a shitload of money. Hasbara isn't free.
And neither is speech in America.
I think reddit has been compromised. And by that, I mean most comments aren't real people who live lives and have real opinions, they are people, but like people who have agendas with multiple accounts. Some are even bots.
Yes they would, and they would have said the same thing during the civil rights protest, and every single other protest because people like this value peace and quiet over justice.
In 30 years everyone is going to have same exact tune and say they were always against what’s going on in Gaza.
Same thing happened with Iraq. You were called anti-American or against the troops if you protested the war. 25 years later, when it was clear the kids were right and the whole thing was a bunch of bullshit, suddenly everyone was against it. The same talking heads who promoted are still on the air, the people that lied are still walking around, and hundreds of thousands of innocent people were slaughtered.
I had this exact conversation with my father yesterday as a matter of fact. He was a Marine during Vietnam. He had protestors throwing shit at him and calling him a baby killer when he was in uniform....and he never actually stepped foot anywhere near Vietnam.
He agrees Vietnam was fucked, but the way he was treated by protestors back then has made it impossible for him to side with protests.
Im sorry that happened to youre father but big protests are always going to be abit messy with people going too far. But the Vietnam protests ultimetly led too more awareness to what America was doing in Vietnam.
I think you'd be hard pressed to find many people that think Vietnam was a good idea. But I don't think that's as much about the protests as the human cost that became undeniable afterward. My uncle also ended up killing himself when he got home from Vietnam. And he's only one of the 20,000 + Vietnam vets that have killed themselves since. Add that to all the other US casualties and the countless Vietnamese, and nobody can justify it.
To be fair, he was part of a military that was actively killing thousands of civilians in another country. I can obviously understand that to be an uncomfortable experience for him, particularly if he were against the war personally.
There's this whole narrative that the Vietnam vets were the real victims because people were mean to them. I'm not gonna say that protestors never went too far, or that they were all the best people or anything, but this take is obviously ridiculous taken in context: we perpetrated an immoral war, commiting countless war crimes, that devastated the lives of millions of civilians.
The USA has spent more, in total, helping arm Israel than we did the entire Vietnam war and that is factoring with inflation.
Be fair we've been funding Israel for 60+ years now. So of course longer time means more money. But to imply we are not involved? Is foolish. To give an idea the recent aid package bill is about 3.5bn dollars. Israels military budget of its own is around 20~25bn. Giving someone essentially ~15% of their own military budget in funding makes you a pretty heavy part of their military activities.
Your car got broken into or someone is robbing your shop it's sorry we don't have any available officers.
You protest the government financing another countries murdering civilians and suddenly they have all the officers in the world!
Police are the attack dogs of the state and should be treated as such.
What else is there to talk about? They basically took all the coverage off of Gaza, made it about them, and got nothing out of their protests. At this point most of the wildest ones have continued because the protestors are asking for amnesty for their actions from the university. It became about them so fast and they have no way to bring it back to the issue at hand unless they stop taking up headline space.
Braindead take. You think students are the ones controlling the media and what the media chooses to cover and how they cover it? You think students are in the office writing the articles, choosing which gets printed and which piece is front cover? Are you that brain rotted?
By that logic MLK took all the coverage off of civil rights. Muhammad Ali took all the coverage off of Vietnam. Protesting college kids back in the 2000's took all the coverage off of Afghanistan...
They didn’t make it about them. The news made it about them. The pundits on CNN and fox had their “experts” and people from the “other side” on their shows to talk about it for days non stop. The protestors covered their faces, didn’t talk to the media, didn’t let the media into the encampments. They can’t control the capitalist economy that runs off clicks.
This is totally inaccurate
https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/may/02/rutgers-university-of-minnesota-protest-agreement
Do you also hate how MLK made it all about him?
I've heard enough excuses for Israel carpet bombing kids. Palestinians have been stateless for 75 years. Don't expect me to take your pearl clutching seriously when Israel has spent the last few decades "mowing the grass."
None of the coverage details how these students are actually blocking entry/exit points of university facilities. That is how and why the authorities are getting involved.
Vietnam war protesters and apartheid South Africa protestors occupied the exact same building 20/50 years ago, so it's not unprecedented. I assume you'd be chastising those protests too if you were alive back then. Even though history has proven their "illegal" actions to be completely justified and on the right side of history
Saying that this is not protected by the 1st Amendment and police are correct in arresting people is not the same as denouncing the cause.
I am frustrated how, instead of the message being "this is a cause that is so important, we are willing to get arrested. and we will keep getting arrested until our demands are met". The whole dialog is becoming distracted with an idiotic debate about free speech and police brutality when nobody's rights are being violated and the police have a reason to be there.
I mentioned this in another thread but this is exactly it. The protestors should expect to be arrested when they do this and they should see it as a feature, not a bug. If the general public agrees with them, they'll be outraged by their arrests, advocate for their cause, and help incite change. If they general public doesn't agree and doesn't go to bat for them then their protests failed, but that's the risk you take when you make a stand like this.
This stopped being a protest the moment they stormed the building.
Civil disobedience is one thing, but this ain’t it. B&E, vandalism, Assault, harassment is not protected under the 1st amendment.
I love how the response to protesters “destructively” blocking doorways with chairs and desks, is to destroy the doors, creating tens of thousands of dollars in damage.
It’s too bad the cops broke this up. From what I read Netanyahu was literally picking up the phone to call for a cease fire, but then heard the protest was over. That was close!
So stupid to think that way. The people's dissent MUST be voiced, YOU should voice your dissent regarding the issues that matter to you.
Staying silent and not taking action because none will care or "pick up the phone call for a cease fire" is being part of the issue, passively. Your sarcasm is not only useless but ignorant to say the least.
> From what I read Netanyahu was literally picking up the phone to call for a cease fire, but then heard the protest was over.
You just explained why they are breaking and entering instead of holding signs.
if you don't think these protests are having an effect on US sentiment and politicians, who then have influence over Israel, you're deluded. You, and all the other pro-war people are on here posting 50 times a day against these students becuase it is working, and it scares the hell out of you...but keep saying it's nothing, go on.
Meet with protesters and be willing to negotiate without immediately calling in the riot cops, as other universities like Brown successfully did:
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/30/us/brown-divestment-deal.html
Fair question, I think it's true that universities have limited power to change the situation in gaza. The protesters aren't pushing for the unis to stop the war as that would be impossible, but rather stop investing in companies/organizations that enable Israel to continue committing human rights abuses.
Essentially asking universities to divest from companies that profit during war and conflict. Will this by itself stop the war? Obviously not. But college students in America don't have much real political power, and so attempt to protest and gain control in the limited ways they can. Which in this case (and in historical cases, as has been pointed out) is on a college campus, pushing a college to change their behavior.
Most of these protests have been protesting their universities’ investments in Israel that contribute to settlements in the West Bank and other actions taken by the Israeli government. Considering students achieved divestment from apartheid South Africa in the 80s I think the goals of these protesters are very achievable.
> What is a university in America going to do to free Palestine?
The protesters literally publish a list of concrete achievable goals and yet dumbasses everywhere still show up asking indignant questions about what they imagine the protests are about.
The protests want:
- Transparency in the university's investment portfolio.
- Divestment from Israeli companies.
- Divestment from weapons manufacturers who sell to the Israeli military.
How is Palestine v Isreal something American protestors can change??? Y go through so much trouble just to chant when you could go around throwing moltovs at gov buildings or attack power stations? That would get some real attention
the Palestinian government launched terror attacks on israeli and american civilians. an american was killed by the palestine government hamas, theres nothing to protest.
I see no problem with this. A bunch of idiots acting like they will make a difference in something well beyond their abilities while fucking over those who pay for a service. How did anyone think this was going to end otherwise?
About as useless as saying my screaming and yelling prompted the Knocks to win their series.
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So many people don't seem to realize that college admin is extremely liberal and theoretically loves this kind of stuff until it starts to disrupt the operation of the university. At that point, they call in the cops.
College is a business after all.
Which is the most on-brand possible Liberal reaction to anything even remotely disruptive.
Imagine the amount of pearl clutching going in those administration ~~offices~~ Zoom meetings right now. Jk. Those people are nowhere near campus.
> college admin is extremely liberal and theoretically loves this kind of stuff Progressive except for Palestine.
The amount of speed that they make this kind of videos public, compared to when they are actually at fault, is mind blowing. Talking about all the PD’s of course, not the protesters
Devil's advocate: investigations that don't clearly show lack of fault last longer and you don't typically release things that might be used in investigations, internal or otherwise. In reality it's safe to say that they're not looking for fault during those investigations but rather looking for ways to prove they weren't at fault, but the same rules apply.
Makes sense. When someone thinks the police are "at fault", someone probably sues and then there's likely court procedures involved and some legal process preventing the immediate release of a video. When an incident like the above video happens and no one is immediately suing the police over it, there's literally no roadblock to just release the video.
Kind of like showing your hand?
That’s a really good way of describing it.
The government doesn't get that privilege.
Our government gets all the privileges fym
[удалено]
several police ( all police at the scene) lied about a little kidnaped girl running towards them for help. They all said she had a weapon. They hid the video for 2 years. Video shows they blasted the fuck out of her and she was unarmed and just wanted help. Are they going to be charged any time soon for her murder?
Maybe because it somehow takes 2 years to release a video of police murdering a 15 year old girl that had been kidnapped and was following an officer's commands. https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2024-04-01/kidnapped-teen-killed-by-deputies-as-she-followed-their-instructions-video
this is what happens when you create genz and give them shooter drills, we learn how to barricade our schools
Well, damn. That's pretty insightful and true.
Good thing too! "Some of those who work forces," after all.
Late millennial here , we sadly had to learn too.
Elder millenial. We had sniper drills, nothing more. Dipped out right before shooter drills and SOLs.
And if just one of those bell-ends had started a fire, they'd all be dead at their own hands.
1.) the protest is bad because it's not being done in the correct way as I define it 2.) historically, when it comes down to clashes with the police, young people and protesting college students in particular have always been on the wrong side of history 3.) they were singing about not being moved, meaning they literally thought they were magically protected from being moved. This is humorous and thus we can dismiss their concerns as being illegitimate. These three unassailable facts inform my opinion on these demonstrations (/s)
didnt see the /s at the end and when i saw 2 i was like "is there literally ANY examples of this"
remember when the coal miner striked and we gunned them down with machine guns? believe it or not, their fault for not coming to work that day! /s
In the armies defense, the miners wives and children had it coming too. /s (in case anyone doesn't know: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ludlow_Massacre)
I had no idea about this. I swear... I am 35 years old and still learning about atrocities that happened in our own country. Our whitewashed historical education is a joke. I didn't learn about the Tulsa Race Massacre until Watchmen aired on HBO. I initially thought it was alternative history since that material has altered real history in its lore. So, thank you for sharing. I hate it to see it, but it is important to know.
You know what’s super sad? The MAJORITY of people didn’t learn about the Tulsa race massacre until watchmen. Me included. And the news articles surrounding it if not the show itself. They just cover this kind of stuff up and pretend it never happened.
Nobody ever heard of the LA Chinese massacre either. Nobody was punished, of course.
I highly recommend 'the dollop' podcast if you want to learn more. It's also pretty funny which helps
We did learn about it in HS back in the 80s. One of the many things that might make you doubt the american facade, probably best to keep in on the DL.
It isn't just history about racial tensions they don't want you to learn. Gun rights essentially came about to stop enslaved people from revolting, but post civil rights era, the NRA started pushing the "God given right" BS and stopped with the safety and hunter's ed. Labor movements or people doing things to better themselves like striking? Yeah we don't want to teach that. There's a reason you get to the Civil War and a little bit of Reconstruction (enough to spin it like we fixed our own problems before trying to fix the world's in 1914/17) and then the history classes hit the big ol "reset" button and start back over at either American History, or all the way back to the dawn of civilization- Egypt (according to most US books, you might get Mesopotamia and some others before that if you're post 2000 education)...
If you haven't read Howard Zinn's A People's History of the United States, I'd suggest checking it out. It has some criticisms of reducing historical conflicts to black and white, good vs evil narratives, but you learn of some things done in our history that truly were evil.
Buddy, I've got some bad news about Thanksgiving...
lol well that I know.
to be fair the tulsa massacre is a part of our curriculum in oklahoma..
Oh wow, I thought you were talking about [the battle of Blair Mountain](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Blair_Mountain).
Wrote my senior thesis on the Ludlow Massacre. It was fucking insane, but it also gave us the most basic labor laws in the country. In other words, shit doesn't change unless blood is spilled. It's a really sad fact, but a fact nonetheless. Welcome to America, the land of the free (unless you're unhappy and seek reform!)
Somewhat related, I've seen so many people unironically blaming arrested protestors for the mess left behind when police raided their encampment and trashed the place, and then arrested them leaving them, you know... unable to clean it up.
Ole Miss riot of 1962 protesting desegregation. Wasn't all students, but most of these protests aren't either. >[The Ole Miss riot began on Sept. 30, 1962, when an angry mob of white students, Oxford citizens and segregationists from outside Oxford stormed through the campus and confronted National Guard troops and U.S. marshals sent to enforce Meredith’s right to attend the state’s flagship university.](https://flagpole.com/news/street-scribe/2022/09/28/remembering-the-riots-when-james-meredith-integrated-ole-miss-60-years-ago/)
Thank god for /s
What does /s mean?
It means "I'm being sarcastic"
Technically it means "I'm done being sarcastic."
Upvote this guy
Oh really, does it now?
Well put. Especially unassailable point two, it's definitely the strongest. Thanks for the chuckle, you point out the absurdity of the reaction to this situation really concisely.
So because groups have been historically right, that means that they're always right? That's good to know.
Literally me yesterday: >You have a right to protest... >*...except on private property* >*... Except after dark* >*... Except about our policies* >*... Except about genocide* >*... Except against authority* >*... Except in front of libraries* >*... Except in front of schools* >*... Except during lunch time* >*... Except during school hours* >*... Except during finals week* >*... Except in the morning* >*... Except organized and together* >*... except loudly* >*.... Except quietly* >*... Except talking to cameras* >*... Except resisting arrest* >*... Except with signs* >*... Except during dinner* >>"Of course you can stand up for what you believe in! You have rights you know!"
“We shall not be moved” *angle grinder begins to spin at spot*
Liberals: proud of every protest except the current one.
and against every war but the current one
And tell me what they did during proud boy parades?
This is the best answer. Thank you!!!
Solid summary. I'm convinced the clowns saying this stuff are bots.
> they were singing about not being moved dude that choir was on-point. even had harmony going on
I'm going to try and word this carefully. I am absolutely against the killing of innocent people. I'm against us sending aid money to support mass murder of non combatant persons. But what I don't see or get is...what is the solution? This is an area of the world that has been in utter turmoil since the times of Jesus. There has never been peace in this area of the world. Since we could pick up stones, people have been fighting in that area. What do you propose the answer is? Because even if all aid stopped and Hamas gained more power...all they would do is start bombing the ever loving shit out of Israel. Would the protestors start defending Israel? I'm sorry, but there is no peaceful resolution to this. Even if Israel wipes Gaza off the face of the earth...next up is Iran. That whole area is fucked. I already know idiots with no reading comprehension are going to jump down my throat saying I support baby killing, meanwhile I never took a side or said that. I just want to hear what a resolution is other than...stop that's bad.
I do agree generally. It seems like the conflict over there is never going to end, just adopt different masks. But really, the solution is to stop picking a side at all, and leave them to it. Not implicitly condoning the war crimes of a significantly larger, better armed, and all around more powerful country who should be "the good guys", and also not giving any support to Hamas (already largely the case). Any and all support should be going to civilians in need.
I agree. It’s okay to not be involved and let them deal with it. Every other country has this attitude why shouldn’t we?
The solution is to create a demilitarized zone that is governed by an international cooperative. Neither side gets control of the region. Everyone is given free, but regulated access. I call it the "Zero-State Solution."
I would argue that if it’s a shit show, why do we really need to get involved?
What is happening in Gaza is sanctioned by the US - without the US government handing over unlimited funds and weapons/ordinance, Israel would not be conducting an ethnic cleansing.
Israel would be fine if we would stop selling them weapons.
Im curious to what your thoughts are on the Saudi-Israel deal that was on track until October 7th? Who would not benefit from a two state solution and normalized relations with the biggest state actor in the region with israel? Who has Saudi Arabia been in proxy war with in Yemen? Why would the CCP force project by sending warships to the med? How did the Attack on October 7th benefit Putin? Im also curious on your thoughts that Israel declared war on Hamas. Keeping in mind that the US hasent declared War since World War 2 (which only ended when those governments officially surrendered, it didnt end with Hitler shooting himself, the war didnt end the day the bombs were dropped on Hirshomia or nagasaki), even the Russians have declared Ukraine a special military operation, with Casualties now pushing 650,000+. The IDF should have set up refugee camps for Women and children only, MAM's seperated. They should be working with the PNA with this process still in line with the frame work of the two state solution under Bidens deal. The point of illustrating all of this, is this war is more than Gaza, and state and non state actors all have agendas being played out that are playing on the emotions of everyone as a means to their end. The only way to save everyone is to recognize that, demand Hama's as an apparatus surrender, and immediately get back on track to a two state solution. This though is unfeasible at this point due to both sides going down a very narrow path of choices.
How dare you have a rational thought!!
Rationality on Reddit? What is the world coming to
> Because even if all aid stopped and Hamas gained more power...all they would do is start bombing the ever loving shit out of Israel. Here's the problem with your comment, this is a false dichotomy. For decades Israel has undermined any kind of civilian authority in Palestine. The solution is to allow them to have a state, to empower a Palestinian Authority, but first of all, to give them hope, so extremism and self immolation are not seen as their only viable option. Hamas is not Palestine and Palestine is not Hamas, they are but a tiny minority that does not represent millions of Palestinians as a whole. This type of defeatism is just dumb and anti-historic, Europe, for most of it's history, has been submerged in wars as well, does that mean peace is not a meaningful goal to achieve there as well?
Yep - entire region has been a powder keg since the dawn of modern history. That's precisely why the CIA has been sticking its nose into these countries for decades - the best you can hope for is keeping things somewhat stable, and that doesn't happen without constant intervention. Otherwise there is no solution. You'd basically be asking all these deeply religious nations to go completely secular, and that seems about as likely as them all just spontaneously deciding to hold hands and be best friends.
TLDR We might not be able to stop the conflict in the middle east but that doesn't mean we should idly by while a regime that we support and have influence over is bombing civilians. We can affect that. We can't stop everything, but we CAN do something to stop this. Your point is fine, but it isn't relevant. You are inserting a wholly different question/problem into these protests that aren't even addressing it. Protests are better than 'stop that's bad', which is better than silence and apathy. No, it won't solve the conflict but you are inserting that as a requirement or goal when it doesn't need to be. A regime is brutalizing civilians, we are supporting it, so they protest. "but will this bring peace to the middle east?" is a non-sequitur.
These kids are certainly fighting and willing to face consequence for what they believe in - the fact that they dont want to be complicit in mass killing of civilians in Gaza. Regardless of how ridiculous you think they are, they are at least standing up for what they believe in.
Going to Columbia University does not make them complicit in killing civilians in Gaza though?
If you're an American, by default a portion of your wages funds it. I think that's the general theme they're getting at is they don't want to be involuntarily involved. Honestly they should just put this policy up for a referendum or something. Except they won't because they'll lose by a mile. So they resort to just beating people until they shut up.
>If you're an American, by default a portion of your wages funds it. Yup. You send a whole 87 cents per week.
Instead of the .50 it would take to house the homeless.
Most homeless are unhoused because they are completely unable to care for themselves due to either mental illness or drug addiction.
Hence the need for housing and social/health services $0.87
Thats a whole 87 cents too much. Personally I'd rather $0.00 go toward funding a genocide but that's just me I guess.
Maybe we're being too sensitive and empathetic towards our fellow human beings right? /s
Their university sends money to Israel, which makes the university complicit in killing civilians in Gaza. It isn't difficult to grasp
Are they sending money or are they just invested in the stock market? Literally every tax paying US citizen is complicit in sending money directly to Israel and funding the killing in Gaza thanks to congress sending billions of dollars of direct aid.
Yes, our tax dollars are funding Israel. That is one of the many reasons why there are protests right now.
They are sending money, as in making the DECISION to send money. I don't have that choice, my tax dollars are being used to help fund an ethnic cleansing. You can't draw a comparison when one is unwilling and the other is not.
They’re literally protesting against them being invested in Google, AWS, and Lockheed Martin. It’s a lost cause
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They can also protest against it? Considering it's funding an ethnic cleansing. What other foreign conflicts have you sided against protestors with? Vietnam? Afghanistan?
Tuition has already been paid at this point in the year, for one. Not paying means they transfer to a different university which, for many, would be incredibly costly or require uprooting their lives. The protests are intended to drive change in a place that they already support/live in, why is that so difficult to comprehend? It's like if you worked at a company that was partnered with some entity that conducted itself in a morally/ethically appalling way and me telling you to quit that job. If it were that simple, sure, but it seldom ever is.
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Standing up for what you believe in is not inherently good. What if I believe in Gaza should be razed to the ground? Are me and homies admirable if we go demonstrate for that?
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But they don't, they literally lie about what they stand for to appear more legitimate in their concerns.
MAGA willing participated in an attempt to overturn a presidential election. So no, they are actually seditious traitors.
Difference being Jan 6 was full of mobs trying to lynch people vs today where they are basically having a sit in
A "sit in"... They're vandalizing the university campus, taking up other student's valuable/shared space, and threatening people on campus who don't directly align with their beliefs. The university systems let this get out of control, and people blame the cops when they have to (rightfully) bust these shenanigans up.
The singing gets softer and softer
Fucking hell man, Im actually impressed by how cunty and elaborate that blockade was. Cops had some real trouble with that last table varricade heh.
It took them like two and a half minutes…
5 mins is something id hardly call "real trouble"
I mean, considering they have hydraulic cutting tools, Id say thats about as good as could be conjured in theory from a couple of chains, tables and chairs aith that weird ass metal grille thing on top.
That’s a significant amount of time regarding this kind of scenario.
You called a blockade “cunty”. The word is truly losing it’s meaning 
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nothing on reddit or any social media can be trusted anymore . vote manipulation and ai accounts are drowning out real users
This thread is just the tip of the iceberg.
If it makes you feel any better: a lot of this reddit shit is costing someone a shitload of money. Hasbara isn't free. And neither is speech in America.
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Who the fuck cares if a term is “cool” or not…?
I think reddit has been compromised. And by that, I mean most comments aren't real people who live lives and have real opinions, they are people, but like people who have agendas with multiple accounts. Some are even bots.
you aren't real
It’s been that way for a long time
What is this? What are they protesting about? I lack context, but looks exciting
They are protesting the US' general political support for Israel's war.
I thought that was the Israeli police at first... My bad.
well, technically... anyway...
They would’ve used a drone first
One the plays the screams and cries of babies to trick them into coming out of hiding
Same, same
You’ll never guess where NYPD gets their training from.
Bunch of friggin idiots.
Would you say the same towards the vietnam protesters in the 60s?
Yes they would, and they would have said the same thing during the civil rights protest, and every single other protest because people like this value peace and quiet over justice.
In 30 years everyone is going to have same exact tune and say they were always against what’s going on in Gaza. Same thing happened with Iraq. You were called anti-American or against the troops if you protested the war. 25 years later, when it was clear the kids were right and the whole thing was a bunch of bullshit, suddenly everyone was against it. The same talking heads who promoted are still on the air, the people that lied are still walking around, and hundreds of thousands of innocent people were slaughtered.
Careful, I don’t think he has much in the way of critical thinking.
I had this exact conversation with my father yesterday as a matter of fact. He was a Marine during Vietnam. He had protestors throwing shit at him and calling him a baby killer when he was in uniform....and he never actually stepped foot anywhere near Vietnam. He agrees Vietnam was fucked, but the way he was treated by protestors back then has made it impossible for him to side with protests.
Im sorry that happened to youre father but big protests are always going to be abit messy with people going too far. But the Vietnam protests ultimetly led too more awareness to what America was doing in Vietnam.
I think you'd be hard pressed to find many people that think Vietnam was a good idea. But I don't think that's as much about the protests as the human cost that became undeniable afterward. My uncle also ended up killing himself when he got home from Vietnam. And he's only one of the 20,000 + Vietnam vets that have killed themselves since. Add that to all the other US casualties and the countless Vietnamese, and nobody can justify it.
To be fair, he was part of a military that was actively killing thousands of civilians in another country. I can obviously understand that to be an uncomfortable experience for him, particularly if he were against the war personally. There's this whole narrative that the Vietnam vets were the real victims because people were mean to them. I'm not gonna say that protestors never went too far, or that they were all the best people or anything, but this take is obviously ridiculous taken in context: we perpetrated an immoral war, commiting countless war crimes, that devastated the lives of millions of civilians.
No, because the United States was actively involved in the Vietnam war. There was literally a draft.
The US is involved judging by how much money and arms that they send to Israel. A big reason the protestors are protesting is because of that.
The USA has spent more, in total, helping arm Israel than we did the entire Vietnam war and that is factoring with inflation. Be fair we've been funding Israel for 60+ years now. So of course longer time means more money. But to imply we are not involved? Is foolish. To give an idea the recent aid package bill is about 3.5bn dollars. Israels military budget of its own is around 20~25bn. Giving someone essentially ~15% of their own military budget in funding makes you a pretty heavy part of their military activities.
I'd like to agree with you but I don't think that's a good comparison.
“We shall not be moved”. Moved a minute later.
I literally jumped from that like to 10 secs later and the effect was COMICAL.
Maybe we are the idiots for supporting genocide. I don't know.
if you are talking about the people marginalising those standing up against oppression, yes, what a bunch of fuckwits
Your car got broken into or someone is robbing your shop it's sorry we don't have any available officers. You protest the government financing another countries murdering civilians and suddenly they have all the officers in the world! Police are the attack dogs of the state and should be treated as such.
Anyone else find it curious how articles about the raging protests have ceased to be posted on the major news subreddit?
it's been covered enough already.
What else is there to talk about? They basically took all the coverage off of Gaza, made it about them, and got nothing out of their protests. At this point most of the wildest ones have continued because the protestors are asking for amnesty for their actions from the university. It became about them so fast and they have no way to bring it back to the issue at hand unless they stop taking up headline space.
Braindead take. You think students are the ones controlling the media and what the media chooses to cover and how they cover it? You think students are in the office writing the articles, choosing which gets printed and which piece is front cover? Are you that brain rotted? By that logic MLK took all the coverage off of civil rights. Muhammad Ali took all the coverage off of Vietnam. Protesting college kids back in the 2000's took all the coverage off of Afghanistan...
They didn’t make it about them. The news made it about them. The pundits on CNN and fox had their “experts” and people from the “other side” on their shows to talk about it for days non stop. The protestors covered their faces, didn’t talk to the media, didn’t let the media into the encampments. They can’t control the capitalist economy that runs off clicks.
This is totally inaccurate https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/article/2024/may/02/rutgers-university-of-minnesota-protest-agreement Do you also hate how MLK made it all about him?
lmao comparing these kids yo MLK is definitely an inspired choice
Source: trust me bro
The people in Gaza are very supportive of the protests so I don’t know what you’re talking to be honest.
Why didn't the department conceal this video from the public for over a year until they lost a lawsuit?
I've heard enough excuses for Israel carpet bombing kids. Palestinians have been stateless for 75 years. Don't expect me to take your pearl clutching seriously when Israel has spent the last few decades "mowing the grass."
None of the coverage details how these students are actually blocking entry/exit points of university facilities. That is how and why the authorities are getting involved.
The police were involved before that when it was just the encampment in the yard
“We shall not be moved!” Didn’t age well
Moved.
Not a single one of you guys would have the balls to do something like this
Because we have the brains to know this is stupid.
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lets be honest, they haven't been outside in years. The sun alone would blind them.
What would you suggest then?
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yeah why would anyone protest the murder of 20,000 children
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there are other places where 20,000 children got murdered in 6 months? where?
Shutting down student protests sure is a great sign of a functioning democracy.
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Vietnam war protesters and apartheid South Africa protestors occupied the exact same building 20/50 years ago, so it's not unprecedented. I assume you'd be chastising those protests too if you were alive back then. Even though history has proven their "illegal" actions to be completely justified and on the right side of history
Saying that this is not protected by the 1st Amendment and police are correct in arresting people is not the same as denouncing the cause. I am frustrated how, instead of the message being "this is a cause that is so important, we are willing to get arrested. and we will keep getting arrested until our demands are met". The whole dialog is becoming distracted with an idiotic debate about free speech and police brutality when nobody's rights are being violated and the police have a reason to be there.
I mentioned this in another thread but this is exactly it. The protestors should expect to be arrested when they do this and they should see it as a feature, not a bug. If the general public agrees with them, they'll be outraged by their arrests, advocate for their cause, and help incite change. If they general public doesn't agree and doesn't go to bat for them then their protests failed, but that's the risk you take when you make a stand like this.
You mean occupying a private building?
Columbia is a private university. Those kids are free to fuck around outside the campus
This stopped being a protest the moment they stormed the building. Civil disobedience is one thing, but this ain’t it. B&E, vandalism, Assault, harassment is not protected under the 1st amendment.
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I love how the response to protesters “destructively” blocking doorways with chairs and desks, is to destroy the doors, creating tens of thousands of dollars in damage.
What's the solution then for removing them if they don't want to be removed?
Lmaoo what a cult.
It’s too bad the cops broke this up. From what I read Netanyahu was literally picking up the phone to call for a cease fire, but then heard the protest was over. That was close!
So stupid to think that way. The people's dissent MUST be voiced, YOU should voice your dissent regarding the issues that matter to you. Staying silent and not taking action because none will care or "pick up the phone call for a cease fire" is being part of the issue, passively. Your sarcasm is not only useless but ignorant to say the least.
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One thing is for sure, if protesting helps for 0.02% of the matter it's still doing more than staying silent, which helps by the 0.0%.
> From what I read Netanyahu was literally picking up the phone to call for a cease fire, but then heard the protest was over. You just explained why they are breaking and entering instead of holding signs.
if you don't think these protests are having an effect on US sentiment and politicians, who then have influence over Israel, you're deluded. You, and all the other pro-war people are on here posting 50 times a day against these students becuase it is working, and it scares the hell out of you...but keep saying it's nothing, go on.
You keep sucking on the boot, little buddy. It'll really get you places.
Weird that it wasn't "corrupted"
They were moved.
The amount of damage they did to the historical building all because some students broke windows.
The building has a long history of being occupied by student protestors. It's part of the history of the building
What do you suggest the alternative was?
Meet with protesters and be willing to negotiate without immediately calling in the riot cops, as other universities like Brown successfully did: https://www.nytimes.com/2024/04/30/us/brown-divestment-deal.html
What is a university in America going to do to free Palestine?
Fair question, I think it's true that universities have limited power to change the situation in gaza. The protesters aren't pushing for the unis to stop the war as that would be impossible, but rather stop investing in companies/organizations that enable Israel to continue committing human rights abuses. Essentially asking universities to divest from companies that profit during war and conflict. Will this by itself stop the war? Obviously not. But college students in America don't have much real political power, and so attempt to protest and gain control in the limited ways they can. Which in this case (and in historical cases, as has been pointed out) is on a college campus, pushing a college to change their behavior.
Most of these protests have been protesting their universities’ investments in Israel that contribute to settlements in the West Bank and other actions taken by the Israeli government. Considering students achieved divestment from apartheid South Africa in the 80s I think the goals of these protesters are very achievable.
> What is a university in America going to do to free Palestine? The protesters literally publish a list of concrete achievable goals and yet dumbasses everywhere still show up asking indignant questions about what they imagine the protests are about. The protests want: - Transparency in the university's investment portfolio. - Divestment from Israeli companies. - Divestment from weapons manufacturers who sell to the Israeli military.
Really? A few million less in some index funds will stop a war? If that's the thinking then it's pure delusion.
I dont know maybe sit down and talk/negotiate like they been asking?
Protests are a cops wet dream, they get to hurt people without repercussions. Fck the police.
How is Palestine v Isreal something American protestors can change??? Y go through so much trouble just to chant when you could go around throwing moltovs at gov buildings or attack power stations? That would get some real attention
We are the funding (that’s money) for the conflict, genius.
It's a protest against their college giving money to Israel.
Wait but they sang ''we shall not be moved'' how in the hell did the cops manage to move them !!? are they magician ?
the Palestinian government launched terror attacks on israeli and american civilians. an american was killed by the palestine government hamas, theres nothing to protest.
I see no problem with this. A bunch of idiots acting like they will make a difference in something well beyond their abilities while fucking over those who pay for a service. How did anyone think this was going to end otherwise? About as useless as saying my screaming and yelling prompted the Knocks to win their series.
Imagine these cops even 1% of this energy to crime🤌