Soooo many legit options that don't involve sketchy sources and methods. I'd be sketched out by the tenant themselves once they propose crypto for payments, and I'd rethink renting to them personally.
We pay a few of our developers in crypto because they prefer it and asked. Promise we aren’t sketchy! But I do find crypto sketchy so I myself do not own any and let my partner handle that lol
Well, there was a handful of tech savvy people who legitimately invested in or mined Bitcoin and held all these years. I have a friend who mined a few coins, was laughed at in 2008, is doing aight now.
This is 100% the exact use case crypto is designed for, replacing existing currencies as a medium of exchange. It’s been 15 years since it was created and still can’t be used this way. It’s a joke and a scam.
Who cares what it’s designed for? It’s a currency that fluctuates wildly in price, isn’t spendable for anything adults actually need to spend money on, and that requires you to jump through a ton of hoops to accept or transfer or turn into real money.
Yep, except that the landlord's expenses are payable in USD, and the taxes are payable in USD, and there are additional hurdles that someone has to deal with, and the landlord isn't a crypto evangelist.
MAYBE I'd accept payment in BTC at a 10-20% premium over USD. That ought to cover my hassles and the fluctuation risk.
Lol I feel kinda bad. You're getting down voted both by bitcoin evangelists and bitcoin haters with poor reading comprehension. Reddit do be redditing sometimes.
I'm not sure why you're getting down voted for pointing out crypto is terrible as currency. You're right - if you can't pay rent with it it's off extremely limited utility.
OP should require legal tender.
Sure, it’s what it was invented for. That doesn’t mean they succeeding in making a currency that’s better than USD, they failed. Way too volatile as a whole and why would I jump thru the hoops of turning crypto into something that the bank will let me use to pay the mortgage or to pay the utilities?
I think some people are misreading you, as I did at first.
u/Bob-Doll isn't saying OP should (or shouldn't) accept rent in crypto.
Yes, the idea that crypto would replace the official currency was always a pipe dream. The effort to fool people into believing otherwise was a joke and a scam.
If I don't care about concealing my transactions, why should I deal with the headaches involved with transacting in another currency? Since there's no good answer to that question, crypto can't get a foothold in mainstream commerce.
Yup. Does your mortgage or tax or insurance bill show up denominated in cryptocurrency? Or do they only accept USD? If something happens with crypto and your obligations are all priced in dollars, then you are fucked. Never take on an income stream in a different currency from that which your bills are priced in.
It literally means the same thing as "uses".
It just makes you sound like an overpaid consultant that wants to confuse folks so they don't ask you "what are those situations and how is it better than what we can do today?".
NFT the technology is really just recording ownership on a blockchain. I'm sure it has interesting use cases, but I haven't seen much other than gambling with more steps.
I'm sure it's useful as a bit of plumbing for certain use cases.
NFT the market was, and is, yes - a scam. The people in the middle were getting money for nothing.
There is no 'title' for my property in BC, canada. I wish that was on a blockchain tbh. trustless, visible but largely anonymous. and then if someone wanted to (illegally, fraudulently) sell my place they would have a harder time.
some how what we have works and costs $0 so I guessing its not going to change.
but if you want to buy a hotel from me let me know, I can hook you up with just about any of them!
"Trustless" title sounds great until the guy who hacks your crypto wallet owns your house and there's no one you can go to in order to fix it. Turns out that having an entity you can trust to maintain a database actually adds a lot of value.
>then if someone wanted to (illegally, fraudulently) sell my place they would have a harder time.
No they would't.
Crypto gets hacked all the time. The recorders office gets hacked never.
It may just be them avoiding taxes, if they bought a bunch of crypto back in the day they might think they can get around paying taxes on it if they just give you the crypto versus changing it into dollars which is easily traced. I suppose you could test it by saying there is a 20% crypto rate and charge 20% and make sure you always know the exchange rate as they might also get you to try to take a set rate of crypto versus comparing it to the dollar each time.
You had them move in and are now discussing how they pay?
Do you have a lease with them and does it require US dollars?
Seems late to be asking a question to which most are saying outright no, don't do it.
As I understand, you are given a tax form based on your holdings/profits made in your CEX. Let's say these renters have their crypto in a DEX which they made from holding it over time/flipping NFTs/trading shitcoins or whatever degen thing. When they transfer their crypto to OP, he is going to receive it probably in a CEX and will convert it to fiat. OP will have to pay taxes on that. The renters are not gonna pay taxes on it as the tax agency are most likely not monitoring these DEX wallets.
I think it's more likely that they are doing it for tax purposes as we are in a bull run and it would make sense holding it for a bit longer.
But to your statement, yeah, they probably made enough profit and are transferring any further fluctuations on to OP.
If OP really wanted to accept crypto, he should charge whatever plus taxes he is gonna pay on it, plus accountant fees.
Not quite how that works. When you receive CEX, a basis is assigned to the CEX that you received (specifically, the amount of rental income you're recognizing upon receipt. If you're using USD terms for the rental agreement, then whatever that nominal amount of USD at the time is your rental income and your basis in CEX. If you're using CEX terms for the rental agreement, then your rental income and basis are the USD value of the CEX received at the time of receipt. (I know that sounds the same, and functionally it can be, but it's slightly different.)
Regardless, whenever you sell or convert your CEX (which the IRS treats as selling), your gain (or loss) on CEX is the sell (or conversion) price minus your basis (as defined above).
Applying real numbers, say you're renting at $1000/m (USD terms) or 10 CEX/m (which we'll presume was worth $100 when you drew up the agreement). Under the first setup, you receive an amount of CEX equal to $1k each month, your basis in that CEX is $1k, your rental income is $1k (just like if you got cash). (In this case, if CEX is worth $50, you receive 20 CEX. If it's worth $200, you receive 5.) Under the second setup, you receive 10 CEX, and your basis in CEX and rental income are whatever 10 CEX was worth on the date of the transaction (i.e. if it's worth $50 per, your income/basis is $500, if it's worth $200 per, your income/basis is $2k).
Say you sell (or convert) that CEX a year from then, and it's worth $125 per. If you were using USD terms and received 20 CEX that month (i.e. it was worth $50), your gains are $1500 for that month (the $2500 you sold the 20 CEX for minus your basis of $1k). If you were using CEX terms and received 10 CEX that month, and it was worth $50 at the time you were paid, your gains are $750 for that month ($1250 minus your basis of $500). Conversely, if you were using USD terms and received 5 CEX that month (i.e. it was worth $200), you have a LOSS of $375 ($625 sell price minus your basis of $1k). If you were using CEX terms, you'd have a trading loss of $750 ($1250 sell price minus your basis of $2k).
Combining those with rental income to make it tie together:
First scenario (USD terms, CEX gain of $1500): Rental income $1k, CEX gains, $1500. Total income: $2500 (the cash after converting the CEX to cash or selling)
Second scenario (CEX terms, CEX gains of $750): Rental income $500, CEX gains $750. Total income: $1250 (the cash after converting)
Third scenario (USD terms, CEX loss of $375): Rental income $1k, CEX loss $375. Total income: $625 (the cash after converting the CEX to cash or selling)
Fourth scenario (CEX terms, CEX losses of $750): Rental income: $2k, CEX loss $750. Total income: $1250 (the cash after converting)
Notice in the CEX trade terms, your income at the end of the day (adjusted for CEX gains/losses) is whatever the CEX was worth at the end (because you were paid in CEX). Under the others, it's more volatile (i.e. the volatility of the CEX is passed to you), but you still recognize rental income equal to the USD terms you set.
Now, for the other guy, who was trading DEX and converted it to CEX to give you:
Whenever he converted that DEX to CEX, that is the taxable event right there, not paying you...and that will be reported to the IRS by the exchange he did this with (assuming they are reputable). He will recognize a gain or loss at that moment, just the same as if he converted it to cash and gave that to you...but his tax events are in no way transferred to you.
Now, very careful note, and this is what you were touching on: beginning in 2025 (you can elect to do so sooner), crypto is being treated under mark to market rules for securities. Basically this means that your crypto is treated on the last day of the year as if you sold it all and bought new crypto at the same price (minus rollover rules)....i.e. it's taxed on any gains it made that year (and you get to deduct any losses it had that year). Under those rules, for the NEXT year, your basis becomes whatever it was worth at the prior year end. So, using scenario 1 above: even if you don't sell, under mark to market, you recognize $2500 in total income ($1k rental, $1.5k in gains), but for the next year, your basis is now $2.5k...and if you sell it for $2k \[or even if you don't, and it just drops to $2k in value at the end of the next year\]...you then recognize a LOSS in the next year of that $500).
Thanks for the elaboration! I appreciate it. I missed the "basis" being assigned part and it being tied to the rental income and declared on official tax docs.
Questions:
1. Are you able to report losses on your rental income if the CEX value goes down and you make a loss, and is it limited to the $3000/year or whatever it is for the US with your stock accounts?
2. So even if it is a reputable CEX are they really tracking random addresses on the blockchain? Let's say renter does multi chain and multi address TXs and it's a total of 10 TXs on different chains and wallets before it finally goes to OP's landlord CEX account, does the CEX really track the originator and send them some tax forms? It could also be an address from mining/validator that was never connected to a CEX. I doubt they are tracking all of that.
Regardless if OP believes in crypto and wants to accept that as rent, he should charge a premium to dealing with all this stuff. Or he can buy his own coin/token of choice after getting the money in usd through a bank transfer
1.) It depends. Typically the $3k net capital loss limitation would apply, but mark-to-market bypasses that, so...
2.) More likely they're having the exchange track the account of the person doing it (effectively stripping the perceived anonymity from crypto). Thing is, crypto is pseudonymous, not anonymous. The blockchain is basically the 'how' they track, not the 'what' they track....i.e. if I traded crypto to you, the blockchain would say "elves traded this amount to syrup on that date," and what the exchanges would track (and report to the IRS) is when each of our accounts were involved on that trade (i.e. mine would say "elves sold on this date" and yours would say "syrup received on this date").
Careful note: what they WON'T track is your basis for you on this, unless you brought in cash....i.e. they're just going to say "syrup got $X worth of XYZcoin" and the IRS will, without you reporting otherwise, assume your basis is $0. As such, you want to make sure you're never ignoring that when you get any trades inbound, so that you can actually make sure your basis is reported appropriately. If you don't, the IRS does not tend to be very nice about it. For example, I have a client who actually lost money on some items, but didn't report on them (this was before they were my client)...and the IRS basically assumed their loss was really tens of thousands of dollars of profit...and taxed accordingly.
Tax consequences on crypto transactions exist regardless of whether you report them. Tax consequences on cash transactions exist regardless of whether you report them.
OP does not have to pay taxes (other than business revenue) on an instant conversion - the only taxes would be capital gains (or losses) if he held on to the crypto then sold it.
Make sure you find an accountant specialized in crypto or use services like koinly etc. [AML is also another problem when accepting such payments](https://www.reddit.com/r/Cryptoregulations/comments/1bd8306/from_crypto_newbie_to_profit_to_panic/) so I'd pass if I were you.
Accepting rent in crypto is risky. Volatility means the value could drop before you cash out. Set up an account on an exchange like Coinbase or Gemini. But I'd be wary of tax issues and security concerns. Stick to cash or check unless you're really crypto-savvy.
> volatility means the value could drop before you cash out
Volatility means price can move in both directions, down or up. Given the 13 year price history of Bitcoin, as of today (5/27/24) almost all holders of BTC are "in-the-money" (in profit) if they've ever received or bought Bitcoin.
With that said, OP should absolutely not accept any risky altcoins as payment.
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13
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i love alternatives to USD that are pegged to the value of the USD. it helps avoid inflation by matching it exactly by definition, thereby not avoiding it. so many people don’t GET IT
Do you like the $1,800 in rent yesterday to be worth $1,700 today? Accept rent with crypto.
Do you like an account so secure it's not recoverable unless you know the 12 magic words? Accept rent with crypto.
I wouldn't even recommend someone proficient in crypto accept rent in crypto. Much less someone who knows nothing about it.
Crypto isn’t an acceptable or stable form of currency because no one uses it. It is instead a speculative asset for making and losing money on that is wildly overpriced in the case of Bitcoin. You are regarded for considering accepting it
No. Let them figure out how to convert their magic internet beans into cash to pay you. The transaction fees are variable and based on traffic, and are sometimes cheap and sometimes extremely expensive. Like Uber fees. So sometimes it’s like $10 to transfer $1,000, and sometimes it’s $150 or $300. The transactions are also irreversible so if you enter the wrong wallet address, forget your password, or get hacked, you’re shit out of luck. Not to mention all the people that are having trouble with getting their crypto out of Coinbase right now. Maybe it will be the next exchange that collapses and fucks over their customers.
They're usually asking for 2 reasons.
1. They're crypto bros who are just pushing it.
1. They're trying to not pay taxes and fees on any gains and conversion back to fiat currency
If you don't know what you're doing in crypto, tell them to convert it and send the cash.
No. People used to "offer" this sort of deal before crypto exchanges existed and you couldn't easily convert crypto into USD. However, these days, they can easily convert crypto into USD and pay you in USD.
More like scenario is that they're trying to pay you in some random cryptocurrency that isn't traded on normal exchanges and therefore doesn't hold any real value. It's a scam.
if you are breaking the law, especially financial and/or tax fraud, then definitely crypto. otherwise, banks have solved the problem of the exchange of currency.
You can use Coinbase commerce to accept payments. You don’t want to accept something else besides a stablecoin like USDC otherwise you are getting taxed from converting crypto to usd
I'm a huge proponent of crypto and applaud people trying to use it for regular transactions.
But if you have to ask this question, you really really shouldn't accept it.
There are services out there that will take crypto and spit out whatever you want in real time. Cash or other flavors of crypto, you'll bleed money throughout the whole shell game of moving and exchanging crypto to eventual cash.
Well, considering the rent is $1800, you have to ask yourself if you are willing to deal with the trouble of converting $1660 into USD. I mean, $2100 is a lot of money, but it can be a pain setting up a crypto account for accepting $1430 in rent monthly. On the other hand, if they are good tenants, and they pay their $2310 on time, it might be worth it if you are interested in holding $1570 in that wallet monthly.
This right here is why crypto is … all the things. Fluid, subject to change, volatile, etc
I wouldn’t even create a crypto account and tell them “cash, check or charge but never crypto. You wanna use it, fine but I won’t use it so do whatever you’ve gotta do to get $x to me in cash, check or charge by Y date each month.”
Short answer, no. Don't do it.
Longer answer. Would you accept rent in gold coins? Euros? Stock certificates? Etc? Same thing. You have an equivalent amount of value in a form that is not easy to change into USD, plus it's volatile. They could give it to you today and when you go to convert it, once you figure out how to, then it could be worth less and then what?
This is a step below accepting stocks for rent, it's more like taking currency from a foreign country that's currently at war.
Crypto is volatile and the laws haven't all been worked out.
There's literally no reason to do it, I'm very pro crypto but lets be real you have two crypto bros who are like dude it would be so cool to pay rent in crypto, we could talk about it on reddit for karma and we're spreading crypto adoption.
This offers zero benefit to you, if you want crypto you could very easily go buy it on your own, no reason to complicate your taxes and lock yourself into accepting it. You need to either use a service which will charge a visa/mastercard style fee or you accept it to your own wallet and hold it or have to go cash it out at coinbase or kraken and now you're subject to volatility swings.
For them the whole point may be getting cheaper rent but for you I'd charge them even more for the convenience.
>or if it's even a good idea
It's not.
When you are paid in dollars, you can use that money almost instantly to pay other people (who want to be paid in dollars), or you can let it sit in your account if you don't need it right away.
With crypto, you need to convert it to dollars before you can spend it, which is an extra hassle (and if you're going to do that, why not just have the tenants bear the hassle).
And if you don't convert it immediately, it will probably be worth a different amount when you do convert it. It might be worth more, which is cool, but you would also have to track the difference and pay taxes on it. Or it might be worth less. Which is less cool.
Tell them to pay you in dollars.
If you want to invest in crypto, then invest in crypto separately.
I love how the straight up advice is an unbounded no.
For the most part, that is correct - if you don't have familiarity with crypto, and don't want to spend a significant amount of time educating yourself on it; don't. It is a rabbit hole and there are lots of ways for it to end poorly.
However, if you are familiar - and understand the risks \[including having the account blacklisted if you accept coins from scam/darknet activities\] it does offer you opportunities. Regardless, due to both the general risks and the volatility in that space, you would need to price the rental to account for that extra rent - and I'm not sure if your renters would be happy paying that premium.
If you move forward with the option, make sure that the acceptable payment source is defined and you severely limit which coins you will accept. Maybe even limit to coins transferred from another account on your exchange of choice to minimize transaction fees and source risk.
Since you've never dealt with crypto before and no one else here is seemingly helping you **in the case** that you ever want to accept crypto payments:
* Create an account on a reputable/licensed crypto exchange (Kraken, Coinbase).
* Once you're verified, generate a Bitcoin QR code/address. Copy/paste this to your tenant.
* He will be able to transfer however much Bitcoin/crypto to you. Each transfer should take no more than 1hr to complete.
* Once you receive payment, either hold the Bitcoin as-is (to use for any future purchases), or sell it on the exchange for USD, your choice.
* At the end of the year, **remember to pay your taxes** on any Bitcoin/crypto received (hire an accountant who's familiar in dealing with crypto)
* Once you're more familiar with how to use Bitcoin/addresses to send/receive money, consider using a self-custody wallet like Muun, Green, Ledger, Trezor etc
They are obviously trying to pay in stable coin tokens pegged to the value of usd such as tether, not in Bitcoin...
Volatility isn't the issue.
But even then there are complications around legalities and taxes are still a thing, if you don't know how to navigate better decline.
Nope. It fluctuates. You have risk associated with it being in coinbase (for example)—accounts get taken over in CB all the time.
They want you to take it because converting to fiat (dollars) has a gas/transaction cost associated with it.
Tell them you are old school, and will take a check (or cc if you are set up for that.)
Don't do it.
It's stupid.
The fee is high and the crypto exchange switches.
You would need to accept it and than convert it immediately and calculating how big of an fee etc.
Short version is this: by accepting payment in crypto, you are taking the risk of that crypto's volatility upon you, just the same as if you immediately converted any cash payment received into said crypto.
I would not recommend doing this if you need the cash for cash flow purposes. As for doing it for investment or trading purposes, I do not make recommendations either way for people who are not my clients (and you are not my client).
Ask all your utility company, property tax office, credit card company, grocery store, etc if they will accept payment in crypto. Let their answer guide your judgement.
1. valuation of crypto always fluctuates, unless you cash out same day it could be worth less the next day but I think it takes 10 days to even transfer to your account completely
2. You could be accepting funds obtained fraudulently.
3. IRS reporting is different for crypto
4. Many fake crypto companies out there, you'd need to due diligence to make sure it's a registered MSB.
If the crypto is a stable coin your good. Don't listen to people here most are not into crypto and don't know anything. I've been in this space for over 6 years. Everything in this world will be digital if you think paper money and fiat currency will be around you guys are imbeciles.
At one point I asked a bunch of crypto people if they'd be willing to negotiate rent in crypto. BTC was at $500 and rents were around $2500/month - nobody in the crypto space was willing to do 5btc/month.
If I was negotiating rent and accepting crypto, I'd try to negotiate a value in terms crypto, not in terms of dollars based on the spot price on the day rent is due. Get them to sign a 1 year lease for a fixed amount of BTC based on the trailing 12 month average price or some discount rate applied to the current price. (The average price over the last 12 months is something like $30-35k/BTC)
I would not negotiate a price in dollars and then let someone pay in crypto.
Mechanism for doing it is harder and transaction fees for converting back to dollars are higher so keep that in mind.
They want to do this for one of two reasons: first, their legitimate (but still illegal) desire to avoid taxes on gains from crypto; or second, because the funds are derived from illegal activity
risky given that they may be wanting to do it due to illicit funds.
if you’re interested in crypto, i’d just have them pay you in USD and purchase with that.
I wouldn’t do it if this is your first intro to crypto. They can sell it and give you cash just as easily and the tax consequences for them would be the same either way.
If this is something you’re really interested in then take more time to do some research about how it works.
This is a /r/bitcoin question or /r/personalfinance not an /r/realestate question. You essentially need to decide if you would like to re-invest your incoming rent payments into crypto. If not, don't take this deal.
Your taxes wouldn't change. You would still need to declare the USD equivalent value at the time of getting it as income.
Accepting rent in crypto offers fast transactions but entails risks like volatility and regulatory uncertainty. Research platforms like Coinbase or BitPay for setup. Consult a financial advisor for tax and security concerns before proceeding.
No. You can convert crypto into real money. Let them do that conversion and pay you in cash.
Would you accept rent payment in a foreign currency that you would have to exchange to American currency? This is the same thing (except this currency isn't backed by any government). Are you prepared to monitor the exchange rate at the moment that rent is due to verify that the payment came in on time? Will they pay the fees associated with convert to USD? So many issues and absolutely zero return for you.
Also, why don't they have real money?
If you actually value your passive income, do not do this lol. I don't care if you think BTC is going to 1 billion dollars, do not do this OP. CASH IS KING
If you are not familiar with crypto, don't accept.
And if you do, try to ask all in advance because crypto is volatility and they might found out they have nothing
You're likely being used to launder dirty money. There is no other reason to buy bitcoin and use it to pay vendors like yourself. Insist they pay in US currency; if they go away you dodged the bullet of having tenants involved in organized criminal activity. Otherwise they'll have no problem converting it themselves to pay you. Also never accept a year's rent up front in hundred dollar bills. Same problem, they're criminals.
Probably not. If it's anything except Bitcoin, absolutely not. If you aren't already proficient with bitcoin, no.
Bitcoin is the closest thing there is to lightning in a bottle in the world of finance. Even so, your bills are in USD and if you have to convert and cash out bitcoin in order to pay those bills, you will incur a tax liability from selling bitcoin for dollars.
In the absolute best possible case, they're trying to pay you with a trustworthy asset and let you deal with the tax implications. Don't do that. Make them pay for that with a surcharge. And if it's any other coin, it's probably a scam coin that they created and you should run away.
I would only take USDC or another stablecoin. These are pegged to a dollar so their value doesn't fluctuate like other cryptos.
Coinbase is probably the most reliable centralized exchange with Kraken in close second. Setting up an account with either will give you a reliable exchange and wallet.
It comes down to what you're doing with the income. If it's just going to go into savings and not get touched, it might be worth taking bitcoin. If you're paying a mortgage with the income, cash or a bank wire are going to be more convenient for the foreseeable future.
If it were Bitcoin I'd say maybe, Ethereum a much weaker maybe. Anything else is a hard no. But I wouldn't do it. If you do agree, do not let them help you set up the account. Also charge them a premium, at least 5% or even 10%.
If you were a crypto expert and knew what you were doing, then you could make an educated choice. You'd probably require them to pay a premium for the volatility. or have to keep a ledger to see what the US cash equivalency is (as if you let someone pay in a foreign currency).
Sounds like a hassle. I'd pass.
This would be a great way to get arrested for money laundering. Even if it is perfectly legal, I would not touch this. You should think of crypto like gold. Unlike gold, it can be traced.
If you want crypto, buy some. Probably not a good idea right now since it's on a high.
Crypto can fluctuate wildly in value. If the lease is denominated in some crypto currency, you're taking a huge risk that the value doesn't plummet and you get paid a lot less. If the lease is denominated in dollars, then you're just adding an extra step to the payment, plus you still take some risk that the value changes between when you receive payment and when you convert it to USD.
I don't know why you would consider this. At all. There's no upside for you.
If I was the landlord I would be fine with it. I have been using Blockchain.com for my wallet last 5 years and it has been good and reliable never heard of any problem. I use Coinbase to buy. It would be like any other transaction. After receiving payment they get receipt. There’s also recording of the transaction on blockchain transfers so it’s not like there’s no evidence. The only problem with BTC is if you sell and make money off it you’re suppose to declare to the IRS. That’s my only issue with it. The only thing you can really buy with BTC is a Tesla so it’s not much of a currency.
Alright, first off no one has asked you **WHAT CRYPTO ARE THEY ASKING TO PAY WITH**. If it’s USDC, then is has no volatility, no fiat conversion fees, no fx costs, no chance of an ACH return, no NSF risks, and very little hassle or effort for you - I’d argue less effort than collecting a paper check and lower cost than any payment processing service for ACH debits or cards.
Plus, coinbase.com will give you a 5.15% APY on the USDC if you leave it on their platform in an FDIC insured account.
It it’s anything other than a Stablecoin in your local currency, it’s probably not worth it unless you want this as a no effort means for you to dollar cost average into a crypto position.
Let them handle all the complications of turning Bitcoin into cash. Then they hand you the cash.
Soooo many legit options that don't involve sketchy sources and methods. I'd be sketched out by the tenant themselves once they propose crypto for payments, and I'd rethink renting to them personally.
Right? Like what do they do for a living that they aren't getting paid in actual money?
We pay a few of our developers in crypto because they prefer it and asked. Promise we aren’t sketchy! But I do find crypto sketchy so I myself do not own any and let my partner handle that lol
You can get paid in crypto from any employer through apps now
Well, there was a handful of tech savvy people who legitimately invested in or mined Bitcoin and held all these years. I have a friend who mined a few coins, was laughed at in 2008, is doing aight now.
my friend told me repeatedly, buy bitcoin. I didn't
Understood. I feel like it's luck, any currency where value seems largely based on speculation doesn't interest me. YMMV
I usually try offload my crypto trading profits by paying for things in crypto. Would be happy to do it through rent.
😂
This is 100% the exact use case crypto is designed for, replacing existing currencies as a medium of exchange. It’s been 15 years since it was created and still can’t be used this way. It’s a joke and a scam.
Who cares what it’s designed for? It’s a currency that fluctuates wildly in price, isn’t spendable for anything adults actually need to spend money on, and that requires you to jump through a ton of hoops to accept or transfer or turn into real money.
yet the risk of sitting on assets with a large value change isn't built into the rent price.
Yep, except that the landlord's expenses are payable in USD, and the taxes are payable in USD, and there are additional hurdles that someone has to deal with, and the landlord isn't a crypto evangelist. MAYBE I'd accept payment in BTC at a 10-20% premium over USD. That ought to cover my hassles and the fluctuation risk.
My point is that crypto is a joke and a scam. Bitcoin was created 15 years ago and still cannot be used as a medium of exchange.
Lol I feel kinda bad. You're getting down voted both by bitcoin evangelists and bitcoin haters with poor reading comprehension. Reddit do be redditing sometimes.
Yet almost no one uses crypto that way. And the actual use case envisioned *prices* being set in BTC.
Just because it's designed for it doesn't mean it does a good job
That’s what the guy said
I'm not sure why you're getting down voted for pointing out crypto is terrible as currency. You're right - if you can't pay rent with it it's off extremely limited utility. OP should require legal tender.
Crypto Bros
So it's like paying USD like a nornal person except with extra unnecessary steps.
Sure, it’s what it was invented for. That doesn’t mean they succeeding in making a currency that’s better than USD, they failed. Way too volatile as a whole and why would I jump thru the hoops of turning crypto into something that the bank will let me use to pay the mortgage or to pay the utilities?
And it's the one thing crypto is actually terrible for. Make them pay in cash or tack on a massive process fee for the trouble.
Found Peter Schiff
Nope, it's not backed by the Fed.
I think some people are misreading you, as I did at first. u/Bob-Doll isn't saying OP should (or shouldn't) accept rent in crypto. Yes, the idea that crypto would replace the official currency was always a pipe dream. The effort to fool people into believing otherwise was a joke and a scam. If I don't care about concealing my transactions, why should I deal with the headaches involved with transacting in another currency? Since there's no good answer to that question, crypto can't get a foothold in mainstream commerce.
🤷🏻♂️
Do not allow them to "pay you in crypto only". Only accept wire, cash, or checks. If they signed a lease already, do not agree to those payment terms.
Yup. Does your mortgage or tax or insurance bill show up denominated in cryptocurrency? Or do they only accept USD? If something happens with crypto and your obligations are all priced in dollars, then you are fucked. Never take on an income stream in a different currency from that which your bills are priced in.
No. Once had a tenant want to pay a years worth of rent with and NFT that HE created.
NFTs being a scam was so obvious. The technology has some interesting use cases though.
I’m just bummed we’re going to have to hear people say “use case” in every other sentence for the next 20 years
It literally means the same thing as "uses". It just makes you sound like an overpaid consultant that wants to confuse folks so they don't ask you "what are those situations and how is it better than what we can do today?".
Great explanation, I couldn’t quite figure out why it annoyed me so much but you hit the nail on the head with that comment
The tech for NFT is wild and can have some awesome uses. For investment or defacto currency NFTs are a scam
NFT the technology is really just recording ownership on a blockchain. I'm sure it has interesting use cases, but I haven't seen much other than gambling with more steps. I'm sure it's useful as a bit of plumbing for certain use cases. NFT the market was, and is, yes - a scam. The people in the middle were getting money for nothing.
The NFT tech is the blockchain. Its the exact tech in crypto. NFT added nothing of value.
There is no 'title' for my property in BC, canada. I wish that was on a blockchain tbh. trustless, visible but largely anonymous. and then if someone wanted to (illegally, fraudulently) sell my place they would have a harder time. some how what we have works and costs $0 so I guessing its not going to change. but if you want to buy a hotel from me let me know, I can hook you up with just about any of them!
"Trustless" title sounds great until the guy who hacks your crypto wallet owns your house and there's no one you can go to in order to fix it. Turns out that having an entity you can trust to maintain a database actually adds a lot of value.
>then if someone wanted to (illegally, fraudulently) sell my place they would have a harder time. No they would't. Crypto gets hacked all the time. The recorders office gets hacked never.
This is the best example of what NFTs could be used for. Instead we got bad gifs of monkeys
Titles are digital anyways. They just scan an image of the title, they don't mess with the physical copy of the title after it is filed.
Was his name Donald?
Sounds like David Thorne was way ahead of the game when he tried to pay a bill with that picture of a spider he drew.
Why would you? If they deal with crypto and think it's too much trouble to convert it to cash, why would you want to?
It may just be them avoiding taxes, if they bought a bunch of crypto back in the day they might think they can get around paying taxes on it if they just give you the crypto versus changing it into dollars which is easily traced. I suppose you could test it by saying there is a 20% crypto rate and charge 20% and make sure you always know the exchange rate as they might also get you to try to take a set rate of crypto versus comparing it to the dollar each time.
They signed a lease to pay the rent in dollars. Only accept dollars.
You had them move in and are now discussing how they pay? Do you have a lease with them and does it require US dollars? Seems late to be asking a question to which most are saying outright no, don't do it.
Lol. No. Lol Lol
NO. NO. NO.
Add a 40% crypto handling fee and watch them magically produce cash.
Ah yes, plan to accept a currency you know nothing about. What could go wrong?
No, don't do it. They're trying to evade taxes and you'll have a hard time find a lawyer dealing with crypto taxes. Overall a hassle.
They're not necessarily trying to evade taxes, but they are trying to offload the risk of the crypto fluctuating onto you.
As I understand, you are given a tax form based on your holdings/profits made in your CEX. Let's say these renters have their crypto in a DEX which they made from holding it over time/flipping NFTs/trading shitcoins or whatever degen thing. When they transfer their crypto to OP, he is going to receive it probably in a CEX and will convert it to fiat. OP will have to pay taxes on that. The renters are not gonna pay taxes on it as the tax agency are most likely not monitoring these DEX wallets. I think it's more likely that they are doing it for tax purposes as we are in a bull run and it would make sense holding it for a bit longer. But to your statement, yeah, they probably made enough profit and are transferring any further fluctuations on to OP. If OP really wanted to accept crypto, he should charge whatever plus taxes he is gonna pay on it, plus accountant fees.
Not quite how that works. When you receive CEX, a basis is assigned to the CEX that you received (specifically, the amount of rental income you're recognizing upon receipt. If you're using USD terms for the rental agreement, then whatever that nominal amount of USD at the time is your rental income and your basis in CEX. If you're using CEX terms for the rental agreement, then your rental income and basis are the USD value of the CEX received at the time of receipt. (I know that sounds the same, and functionally it can be, but it's slightly different.) Regardless, whenever you sell or convert your CEX (which the IRS treats as selling), your gain (or loss) on CEX is the sell (or conversion) price minus your basis (as defined above). Applying real numbers, say you're renting at $1000/m (USD terms) or 10 CEX/m (which we'll presume was worth $100 when you drew up the agreement). Under the first setup, you receive an amount of CEX equal to $1k each month, your basis in that CEX is $1k, your rental income is $1k (just like if you got cash). (In this case, if CEX is worth $50, you receive 20 CEX. If it's worth $200, you receive 5.) Under the second setup, you receive 10 CEX, and your basis in CEX and rental income are whatever 10 CEX was worth on the date of the transaction (i.e. if it's worth $50 per, your income/basis is $500, if it's worth $200 per, your income/basis is $2k). Say you sell (or convert) that CEX a year from then, and it's worth $125 per. If you were using USD terms and received 20 CEX that month (i.e. it was worth $50), your gains are $1500 for that month (the $2500 you sold the 20 CEX for minus your basis of $1k). If you were using CEX terms and received 10 CEX that month, and it was worth $50 at the time you were paid, your gains are $750 for that month ($1250 minus your basis of $500). Conversely, if you were using USD terms and received 5 CEX that month (i.e. it was worth $200), you have a LOSS of $375 ($625 sell price minus your basis of $1k). If you were using CEX terms, you'd have a trading loss of $750 ($1250 sell price minus your basis of $2k). Combining those with rental income to make it tie together: First scenario (USD terms, CEX gain of $1500): Rental income $1k, CEX gains, $1500. Total income: $2500 (the cash after converting the CEX to cash or selling) Second scenario (CEX terms, CEX gains of $750): Rental income $500, CEX gains $750. Total income: $1250 (the cash after converting) Third scenario (USD terms, CEX loss of $375): Rental income $1k, CEX loss $375. Total income: $625 (the cash after converting the CEX to cash or selling) Fourth scenario (CEX terms, CEX losses of $750): Rental income: $2k, CEX loss $750. Total income: $1250 (the cash after converting) Notice in the CEX trade terms, your income at the end of the day (adjusted for CEX gains/losses) is whatever the CEX was worth at the end (because you were paid in CEX). Under the others, it's more volatile (i.e. the volatility of the CEX is passed to you), but you still recognize rental income equal to the USD terms you set. Now, for the other guy, who was trading DEX and converted it to CEX to give you: Whenever he converted that DEX to CEX, that is the taxable event right there, not paying you...and that will be reported to the IRS by the exchange he did this with (assuming they are reputable). He will recognize a gain or loss at that moment, just the same as if he converted it to cash and gave that to you...but his tax events are in no way transferred to you. Now, very careful note, and this is what you were touching on: beginning in 2025 (you can elect to do so sooner), crypto is being treated under mark to market rules for securities. Basically this means that your crypto is treated on the last day of the year as if you sold it all and bought new crypto at the same price (minus rollover rules)....i.e. it's taxed on any gains it made that year (and you get to deduct any losses it had that year). Under those rules, for the NEXT year, your basis becomes whatever it was worth at the prior year end. So, using scenario 1 above: even if you don't sell, under mark to market, you recognize $2500 in total income ($1k rental, $1.5k in gains), but for the next year, your basis is now $2.5k...and if you sell it for $2k \[or even if you don't, and it just drops to $2k in value at the end of the next year\]...you then recognize a LOSS in the next year of that $500).
Thanks for the elaboration! I appreciate it. I missed the "basis" being assigned part and it being tied to the rental income and declared on official tax docs. Questions: 1. Are you able to report losses on your rental income if the CEX value goes down and you make a loss, and is it limited to the $3000/year or whatever it is for the US with your stock accounts? 2. So even if it is a reputable CEX are they really tracking random addresses on the blockchain? Let's say renter does multi chain and multi address TXs and it's a total of 10 TXs on different chains and wallets before it finally goes to OP's landlord CEX account, does the CEX really track the originator and send them some tax forms? It could also be an address from mining/validator that was never connected to a CEX. I doubt they are tracking all of that. Regardless if OP believes in crypto and wants to accept that as rent, he should charge a premium to dealing with all this stuff. Or he can buy his own coin/token of choice after getting the money in usd through a bank transfer
1.) It depends. Typically the $3k net capital loss limitation would apply, but mark-to-market bypasses that, so... 2.) More likely they're having the exchange track the account of the person doing it (effectively stripping the perceived anonymity from crypto). Thing is, crypto is pseudonymous, not anonymous. The blockchain is basically the 'how' they track, not the 'what' they track....i.e. if I traded crypto to you, the blockchain would say "elves traded this amount to syrup on that date," and what the exchanges would track (and report to the IRS) is when each of our accounts were involved on that trade (i.e. mine would say "elves sold on this date" and yours would say "syrup received on this date"). Careful note: what they WON'T track is your basis for you on this, unless you brought in cash....i.e. they're just going to say "syrup got $X worth of XYZcoin" and the IRS will, without you reporting otherwise, assume your basis is $0. As such, you want to make sure you're never ignoring that when you get any trades inbound, so that you can actually make sure your basis is reported appropriately. If you don't, the IRS does not tend to be very nice about it. For example, I have a client who actually lost money on some items, but didn't report on them (this was before they were my client)...and the IRS basically assumed their loss was really tens of thousands of dollars of profit...and taxed accordingly.
Tax consequences on crypto transactions exist regardless of whether you report them. Tax consequences on cash transactions exist regardless of whether you report them.
OP does not have to pay taxes (other than business revenue) on an instant conversion - the only taxes would be capital gains (or losses) if he held on to the crypto then sold it.
Lol how do you know they’re trying to avoid taxes? Experts out in full force 😂😂
How do you know they are not?
Make sure you find an accountant specialized in crypto or use services like koinly etc. [AML is also another problem when accepting such payments](https://www.reddit.com/r/Cryptoregulations/comments/1bd8306/from_crypto_newbie_to_profit_to_panic/) so I'd pass if I were you.
yeah I've had the same problem with aml its been a nightmare
Accepting rent in crypto is risky. Volatility means the value could drop before you cash out. Set up an account on an exchange like Coinbase or Gemini. But I'd be wary of tax issues and security concerns. Stick to cash or check unless you're really crypto-savvy.
> volatility means the value could drop before you cash out Volatility means price can move in both directions, down or up. Given the 13 year price history of Bitcoin, as of today (5/27/24) almost all holders of BTC are "in-the-money" (in profit) if they've ever received or bought Bitcoin. With that said, OP should absolutely not accept any risky altcoins as payment.
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Lol. Why, reddit?
Nice
Called stablecoins. Pegged to USD. yawn so many people don't know anything.
i love alternatives to USD that are pegged to the value of the USD. it helps avoid inflation by matching it exactly by definition, thereby not avoiding it. so many people don’t GET IT
No. Do not do this.
Do you like the $1,800 in rent yesterday to be worth $1,700 today? Accept rent with crypto. Do you like an account so secure it's not recoverable unless you know the 12 magic words? Accept rent with crypto. I wouldn't even recommend someone proficient in crypto accept rent in crypto. Much less someone who knows nothing about it.
That would be an awful idea
Umm….nope!
Don't.
I wouldn’t because the volatility of it and I’d straight up prefer cash
Crypto isn’t an acceptable or stable form of currency because no one uses it. It is instead a speculative asset for making and losing money on that is wildly overpriced in the case of Bitcoin. You are regarded for considering accepting it
No. There are ways to get cash from Bitcoin to pay bills. They better do that instead. Just no.
Card, cash, wire transfer or homelessness. thats their options. they can cash out the crypto and give you the money.
No. Let them figure out how to convert their magic internet beans into cash to pay you. The transaction fees are variable and based on traffic, and are sometimes cheap and sometimes extremely expensive. Like Uber fees. So sometimes it’s like $10 to transfer $1,000, and sometimes it’s $150 or $300. The transactions are also irreversible so if you enter the wrong wallet address, forget your password, or get hacked, you’re shit out of luck. Not to mention all the people that are having trouble with getting their crypto out of Coinbase right now. Maybe it will be the next exchange that collapses and fucks over their customers.
They're usually asking for 2 reasons. 1. They're crypto bros who are just pushing it. 1. They're trying to not pay taxes and fees on any gains and conversion back to fiat currency If you don't know what you're doing in crypto, tell them to convert it and send the cash.
3) they're doing illegal things to earn rent that only pays out in Bitcoin because it's harder to trace.
Bitcoin is extremely easy to trace. It’s easier than cash. It’s literally a public blockchain. It’s not used for privacy.
Yeah, this is why all the ransomware people insist on being paid in BTC / crypto...
anyone who knows nothing about crypto would argue against this point. it’s literally tracked and uneditable on a digital public ledger.
Your last Reddit post, agree entirely. Hopefully bonds first.
Sounds ridiculous. I also think it would create a tax problem for you.
The key question: what’s in it for you?
No. People used to "offer" this sort of deal before crypto exchanges existed and you couldn't easily convert crypto into USD. However, these days, they can easily convert crypto into USD and pay you in USD. More like scenario is that they're trying to pay you in some random cryptocurrency that isn't traded on normal exchanges and therefore doesn't hold any real value. It's a scam.
Absolutely not.
Absolutely not. Cash on the barrel head on the first of the month. Good checks also accepted
I would not. That will create tax issues for you.
That’s a no for me Dawg
Don’t. Just don’t. If it’s too much of an issue for them to convert their “asset” into cash for rent, that shouldn’t be your issue either.
if you are breaking the law, especially financial and/or tax fraud, then definitely crypto. otherwise, banks have solved the problem of the exchange of currency.
You can use Coinbase commerce to accept payments. You don’t want to accept something else besides a stablecoin like USDC otherwise you are getting taxed from converting crypto to usd
Do not patronize the crypto bros trying to shove their shitcoins down your throat. They can pay in USD.
Are they hoping to just avoid the tax gains of selling it and passing it on to you?
Have fun with your taxes
Absofuckinglutely not.
I'm a huge proponent of crypto and applaud people trying to use it for regular transactions. But if you have to ask this question, you really really shouldn't accept it.
There are services out there that will take crypto and spit out whatever you want in real time. Cash or other flavors of crypto, you'll bleed money throughout the whole shell game of moving and exchanging crypto to eventual cash.
Well, considering the rent is $1800, you have to ask yourself if you are willing to deal with the trouble of converting $1660 into USD. I mean, $2100 is a lot of money, but it can be a pain setting up a crypto account for accepting $1430 in rent monthly. On the other hand, if they are good tenants, and they pay their $2310 on time, it might be worth it if you are interested in holding $1570 in that wallet monthly.
This right here is why crypto is … all the things. Fluid, subject to change, volatile, etc I wouldn’t even create a crypto account and tell them “cash, check or charge but never crypto. You wanna use it, fine but I won’t use it so do whatever you’ve gotta do to get $x to me in cash, check or charge by Y date each month.”
I will accept cryptocurrency with a one-time $5,000 setup fee. Problem solved.
If they paid a year in advance I'd probably do it, and convert half now to cash and see what the other half does in a year.
Nope. Nope. Nope.
Short answer, no. Don't do it. Longer answer. Would you accept rent in gold coins? Euros? Stock certificates? Etc? Same thing. You have an equivalent amount of value in a form that is not easy to change into USD, plus it's volatile. They could give it to you today and when you go to convert it, once you figure out how to, then it could be worth less and then what?
Nope. Make them turn their crypto into cash. If you want to leisurely dabble in crypto, do so on your own terms; not via their rent. 😅
No thank you
There is no pro. Any other dumb questions?
Can I move in and pay you with my smile? Nothing sexual, just a smile 😂
This is a step below accepting stocks for rent, it's more like taking currency from a foreign country that's currently at war. Crypto is volatile and the laws haven't all been worked out.
I would say he’ll no. They can convert to USD before giving it to you. My guess is they are trying to avoid paying taxes.
Or aml/kyc which makes it worse. Edit: downvoted for the reality that the renter may be trying to bypass aml/kyc? Why?
I wouldn’t take that crap. Way easier to use traditional methods. Let them deal with the headache of converting their coin to real money.
Hard pass
Make them pay cash
There's literally no reason to do it, I'm very pro crypto but lets be real you have two crypto bros who are like dude it would be so cool to pay rent in crypto, we could talk about it on reddit for karma and we're spreading crypto adoption. This offers zero benefit to you, if you want crypto you could very easily go buy it on your own, no reason to complicate your taxes and lock yourself into accepting it. You need to either use a service which will charge a visa/mastercard style fee or you accept it to your own wallet and hold it or have to go cash it out at coinbase or kraken and now you're subject to volatility swings. For them the whole point may be getting cheaper rent but for you I'd charge them even more for the convenience.
Only if it’s bitcoin and only if they are paying a $100 premium for you to convert it and handle the volatility. .000014 bitcoin
Do you want to make money as a landlord or through gambling? Tell them you want rent paid in US dollars.
I wouldn't, Not worth the time or risk. If they can convert it to cash on their own.
Make the rent one Bitcoin a month.
>or if it's even a good idea It's not. When you are paid in dollars, you can use that money almost instantly to pay other people (who want to be paid in dollars), or you can let it sit in your account if you don't need it right away. With crypto, you need to convert it to dollars before you can spend it, which is an extra hassle (and if you're going to do that, why not just have the tenants bear the hassle). And if you don't convert it immediately, it will probably be worth a different amount when you do convert it. It might be worth more, which is cool, but you would also have to track the difference and pay taxes on it. Or it might be worth less. Which is less cool. Tell them to pay you in dollars. If you want to invest in crypto, then invest in crypto separately.
If you wanted bitcoin you’d take convert dollars to btc yourself. That said I’d be open to bitcoin rent payment for a 50% fee
This could be borderline non kyc btc though? Only thing better is directly mined btc. It’s not a bad thing. I’d go out of my way to make this happen.
Why would non kyc matter? Avoid tax or anonymity?
Secures Anonymity if not sent to a wallet with coins already kyc’d. Not a fan of tax fraud / evasion personally.
There is no advantage for OP to accept crypto instead of standard currency.
I love how the straight up advice is an unbounded no. For the most part, that is correct - if you don't have familiarity with crypto, and don't want to spend a significant amount of time educating yourself on it; don't. It is a rabbit hole and there are lots of ways for it to end poorly. However, if you are familiar - and understand the risks \[including having the account blacklisted if you accept coins from scam/darknet activities\] it does offer you opportunities. Regardless, due to both the general risks and the volatility in that space, you would need to price the rental to account for that extra rent - and I'm not sure if your renters would be happy paying that premium. If you move forward with the option, make sure that the acceptable payment source is defined and you severely limit which coins you will accept. Maybe even limit to coins transferred from another account on your exchange of choice to minimize transaction fees and source risk.
No!!!!
Have them cash the crypto into USF then pay you.
Since you've never dealt with crypto before and no one else here is seemingly helping you **in the case** that you ever want to accept crypto payments: * Create an account on a reputable/licensed crypto exchange (Kraken, Coinbase). * Once you're verified, generate a Bitcoin QR code/address. Copy/paste this to your tenant. * He will be able to transfer however much Bitcoin/crypto to you. Each transfer should take no more than 1hr to complete. * Once you receive payment, either hold the Bitcoin as-is (to use for any future purchases), or sell it on the exchange for USD, your choice. * At the end of the year, **remember to pay your taxes** on any Bitcoin/crypto received (hire an accountant who's familiar in dealing with crypto) * Once you're more familiar with how to use Bitcoin/addresses to send/receive money, consider using a self-custody wallet like Muun, Green, Ledger, Trezor etc
They are obviously trying to pay in stable coin tokens pegged to the value of usd such as tether, not in Bitcoin... Volatility isn't the issue. But even then there are complications around legalities and taxes are still a thing, if you don't know how to navigate better decline.
Convert to US Dollars is the only answer.
Not unless you're personally interested in speculating in crypto, or they're paying for the overhead of converting to USD.
Nope. It fluctuates. You have risk associated with it being in coinbase (for example)—accounts get taken over in CB all the time. They want you to take it because converting to fiat (dollars) has a gas/transaction cost associated with it. Tell them you are old school, and will take a check (or cc if you are set up for that.)
Only with 20-25% markup.
https://bitpay.com suggest you only accept Bitcoin
Don't do it. It's stupid. The fee is high and the crypto exchange switches. You would need to accept it and than convert it immediately and calculating how big of an fee etc.
Short version is this: by accepting payment in crypto, you are taking the risk of that crypto's volatility upon you, just the same as if you immediately converted any cash payment received into said crypto. I would not recommend doing this if you need the cash for cash flow purposes. As for doing it for investment or trading purposes, I do not make recommendations either way for people who are not my clients (and you are not my client).
Ask all your utility company, property tax office, credit card company, grocery store, etc if they will accept payment in crypto. Let their answer guide your judgement.
1. valuation of crypto always fluctuates, unless you cash out same day it could be worth less the next day but I think it takes 10 days to even transfer to your account completely 2. You could be accepting funds obtained fraudulently. 3. IRS reporting is different for crypto 4. Many fake crypto companies out there, you'd need to due diligence to make sure it's a registered MSB.
Why would you accept payment in digital beanie babies?
Lol don't do it
If the crypto is a stable coin your good. Don't listen to people here most are not into crypto and don't know anything. I've been in this space for over 6 years. Everything in this world will be digital if you think paper money and fiat currency will be around you guys are imbeciles.
Do not accept crypto. US Currency only.
No
Sure, if you want to endlessly debate the value of cryptocurrencies.
At one point I asked a bunch of crypto people if they'd be willing to negotiate rent in crypto. BTC was at $500 and rents were around $2500/month - nobody in the crypto space was willing to do 5btc/month. If I was negotiating rent and accepting crypto, I'd try to negotiate a value in terms crypto, not in terms of dollars based on the spot price on the day rent is due. Get them to sign a 1 year lease for a fixed amount of BTC based on the trailing 12 month average price or some discount rate applied to the current price. (The average price over the last 12 months is something like $30-35k/BTC) I would not negotiate a price in dollars and then let someone pay in crypto. Mechanism for doing it is harder and transaction fees for converting back to dollars are higher so keep that in mind.
You might need to consider the tax on crypto is there is any, and also the stress of converting since you are new to it
Oh hell no. They can convert it to real money to pay you and get out of their tech bro bubble. That's going to be nothing but a headache for you.
it's not hard to turn crypto into money
They want to do this for one of two reasons: first, their legitimate (but still illegal) desire to avoid taxes on gains from crypto; or second, because the funds are derived from illegal activity
risky given that they may be wanting to do it due to illicit funds. if you’re interested in crypto, i’d just have them pay you in USD and purchase with that.
If you had experience in this area, you'd say "hell no".
sounds like a weed farm.
Nope. It’s not considered legal tender in my State.
I wouldn’t do it if this is your first intro to crypto. They can sell it and give you cash just as easily and the tax consequences for them would be the same either way. If this is something you’re really interested in then take more time to do some research about how it works.
No. Dont be stupid.
Tell the me you accept Franklin coins. wire to your bank
Just learn to say no.
This is a /r/bitcoin question or /r/personalfinance not an /r/realestate question. You essentially need to decide if you would like to re-invest your incoming rent payments into crypto. If not, don't take this deal. Your taxes wouldn't change. You would still need to declare the USD equivalent value at the time of getting it as income.
Cash is king; you’re renting to make money… let them pay in cash—- if then, you want to learn to sue crypto to be it.
Accepting rent in crypto offers fast transactions but entails risks like volatility and regulatory uncertainty. Research platforms like Coinbase or BitPay for setup. Consult a financial advisor for tax and security concerns before proceeding.
Absolutely no reason for you to do it unless you plan on purchasing that specific crypto in the future because you’ll save on transaction fees.
Just tell them to pay in normal money.
https://xkcd.com/2030/
No. You can convert crypto into real money. Let them do that conversion and pay you in cash. Would you accept rent payment in a foreign currency that you would have to exchange to American currency? This is the same thing (except this currency isn't backed by any government). Are you prepared to monitor the exchange rate at the moment that rent is due to verify that the payment came in on time? Will they pay the fees associated with convert to USD? So many issues and absolutely zero return for you. Also, why don't they have real money?
You are doing business in the United States. Transact in United States Dollars.
If you actually value your passive income, do not do this lol. I don't care if you think BTC is going to 1 billion dollars, do not do this OP. CASH IS KING
Only take cash
If you are not familiar with crypto, don't accept. And if you do, try to ask all in advance because crypto is volatility and they might found out they have nothing
I would charge a premium for that
You're likely being used to launder dirty money. There is no other reason to buy bitcoin and use it to pay vendors like yourself. Insist they pay in US currency; if they go away you dodged the bullet of having tenants involved in organized criminal activity. Otherwise they'll have no problem converting it themselves to pay you. Also never accept a year's rent up front in hundred dollar bills. Same problem, they're criminals.
Probably not. If it's anything except Bitcoin, absolutely not. If you aren't already proficient with bitcoin, no. Bitcoin is the closest thing there is to lightning in a bottle in the world of finance. Even so, your bills are in USD and if you have to convert and cash out bitcoin in order to pay those bills, you will incur a tax liability from selling bitcoin for dollars. In the absolute best possible case, they're trying to pay you with a trustworthy asset and let you deal with the tax implications. Don't do that. Make them pay for that with a surcharge. And if it's any other coin, it's probably a scam coin that they created and you should run away.
well one thing is for absolute sure: if you do go down this route, only accept bitcoin, and not any of that other "crypto" shit.
Read the book “Number Go Up” Short answer, absolutely not
Just have them convert it to USD there’s no upside for you to take it in crypto.
I would only take USDC or another stablecoin. These are pegged to a dollar so their value doesn't fluctuate like other cryptos. Coinbase is probably the most reliable centralized exchange with Kraken in close second. Setting up an account with either will give you a reliable exchange and wallet. It comes down to what you're doing with the income. If it's just going to go into savings and not get touched, it might be worth taking bitcoin. If you're paying a mortgage with the income, cash or a bank wire are going to be more convenient for the foreseeable future.
If it were Bitcoin I'd say maybe, Ethereum a much weaker maybe. Anything else is a hard no. But I wouldn't do it. If you do agree, do not let them help you set up the account. Also charge them a premium, at least 5% or even 10%.
Tell them you'll take payment in crypto. But it'll cost them. An entire bitcoin per month.
If you were a crypto expert and knew what you were doing, then you could make an educated choice. You'd probably require them to pay a premium for the volatility. or have to keep a ledger to see what the US cash equivalency is (as if you let someone pay in a foreign currency). Sounds like a hassle. I'd pass.
This would be a great way to get arrested for money laundering. Even if it is perfectly legal, I would not touch this. You should think of crypto like gold. Unlike gold, it can be traced. If you want crypto, buy some. Probably not a good idea right now since it's on a high.
Crypto can fluctuate wildly in value. If the lease is denominated in some crypto currency, you're taking a huge risk that the value doesn't plummet and you get paid a lot less. If the lease is denominated in dollars, then you're just adding an extra step to the payment, plus you still take some risk that the value changes between when you receive payment and when you convert it to USD. I don't know why you would consider this. At all. There's no upside for you.
If I was the landlord I would be fine with it. I have been using Blockchain.com for my wallet last 5 years and it has been good and reliable never heard of any problem. I use Coinbase to buy. It would be like any other transaction. After receiving payment they get receipt. There’s also recording of the transaction on blockchain transfers so it’s not like there’s no evidence. The only problem with BTC is if you sell and make money off it you’re suppose to declare to the IRS. That’s my only issue with it. The only thing you can really buy with BTC is a Tesla so it’s not much of a currency.
Alright, first off no one has asked you **WHAT CRYPTO ARE THEY ASKING TO PAY WITH**. If it’s USDC, then is has no volatility, no fiat conversion fees, no fx costs, no chance of an ACH return, no NSF risks, and very little hassle or effort for you - I’d argue less effort than collecting a paper check and lower cost than any payment processing service for ACH debits or cards. Plus, coinbase.com will give you a 5.15% APY on the USDC if you leave it on their platform in an FDIC insured account. It it’s anything other than a Stablecoin in your local currency, it’s probably not worth it unless you want this as a no effort means for you to dollar cost average into a crypto position.
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You can accept whatever you want. Your decision