For torso, neck, and shoulder protection, yes. Arms beyond the shoulder and legs are only protected by the duster, but unlike the neck, torso, and subsequently the heart, they aren't vital. There is no movement penalty with recon armor, but a vest, and flak pants, do, which could be worth considering.
a particular good set of flak vest, duster/cape, pant, button-down shirt can rival the overall protection of marine armor, aside from different body part protecion
dmg is rolled from outer layer in, so more layr = more roll
Francis John did a video on it, in summary, marine or cataphract-wearing pawns die often time of 1-shot to neck & head and it's obvious why, only things like charge lance's 1-shot really deal the killing blows on heart or torso
CE makes armor much better due to the fact that everything that below the armor pierce threshold cannot hit your pawn. I had a single marine in legendary armor fend off 20 raiders with small arms because they just could not pierce his armor.
Wow thats crazy tankiness! I'm playing a run with CE and Diego Industrial as storyteller. So no power armor for me. I'm still figuring out what kind of setup will be my standard army dessing code.
a flak vest and a composite helmet will take you very far. especially if you're making good use of cover.
you'll rarely get shot in places like the legs, if ever, behind embrasures because it covers all the way to the head. this means you can forgo flak pants and not deal with the move speed debuff.
in vanilla, the game roll the dice to determine if dmg is dealt
0 < x (roll result) <100
x < armor%/2 = 0 dmg
armor%/2 < x < armor% = dmg/2
x > armor% = full dmg
ArmorPen & cover is additive to armor%, e.g: armor = 60% sharp, AP = 40%, now the die rolls against 20%
dmg rolls from outer layers in (duster -> vest -> shirt)
so if you're particularly unlucky with dice roll, you can eat full dmg from an arrow despite wearing marine armor
--
in CE, it's bullet/projectile-based, a pawn behind barricade will actually have his lower body protected rather than somehow still get his toe shot down by an arrow
armors actually reduce dmg as the bullet penetrates through armor layers, so no chance of receiving full dmg from an arrow while wearing 3 layers of armors
I'd wear recon for looks but really if you are looking for mobility go for locust armour instead, slightly less full body armour but comes with built in jump pack letting you bring another utility item like shield belt for melee etc
Im quite partial to prestige recon armour too. It's handy on a caster. All the prestige armours have the same psy sensitivity boost, but recon is much cheaper and doesn't restrict movement. If your casting in the back wearing a shield belt, the protection dosnt matter as much.
The eltex gear offers more, but can't be crafted. But eltex shirt can be worn under any other armor set up.
There is no reason to ever craft recon armor since for kiters your gonna want either a jump pack or a shield belt. And if you can make a jumpack make locust.
But I do find recon is most useful as a quest reward or if you get the option to buy it and have excess silver. Since you can avoid the research cost and still get some good armor for your kiter.
So I normally pick up a suit of recon if it's economical until I can get locust. Since a recon + shield belt is gonna perform pretty close to a locust in their role.
Flak vest and duster is generally the best one size fits all because it's economical and protects vital organs relatively the best (obv high marine or cata is a diff story).
That said, for melee, even a bad set of recon armour can be vastly superior. Heck even a decent set of plate armour can be useful. Situations like bug blocking and man hunters having the arm and leg protection will keep them in the fight much longer.
Yes, but if you’re short on devilstrand it would be better to make devilstrand *shirts* (and pants) and wear them underneath the recon armor
But if devilstrand is not a limiting factor then go full devilstrand clothes and a flak vest as it’s the better option for light/standard armor
Marine armor is more debatable, but quality cataphract armor is definitely more protective as it can reach near 200% sharp protection with masterwork and like 215% legendary. Making you immune to anything that doesn’t have at least 16% AP
I’ve had a hussar in legendary cataphract armor have his armor (like 90% durability at the start) break before he got downed
If you have a pawn with inspiration, you can get full body coverage of a high quality armour with one build. I'd usually prefer to make a weapon since they can last forever though.
Anyway, I use a mod that extends full body armour to cover hands and feet, (little known fact: your sci-fi powered armour leaves you barefoot) so it has that going for it.
This is actually something I realized in my current playthrough.
I had never been crafting shoes/footwraps or gloves/handwraps, which explains why so many of my pawns were losing toes and fingers despite being fairly well armored otherwise. So far I've noticed a decline in the number of missing toes and fingers (and really, a missing toe takes out 4% movement speed?)
Fun thing happened though; I was going through checking armor for my pawns and one didn't have any boots on. I tried to force him to wear boots and it said he wasn't capable of wearing boots. Then I realized he had two bionic legs (because he kept getting his legs blown off) and apparently if you don't have any organic feet, you don't have to wear boots, which is fun.
Bionic Arms / Legs don't have individual parts, so for the bionic arm, they're "only" shoulders (but they still give you the manipulation even without hands).
This is why you can't have Bionic Arm + Field Hand -- there's no hand to attach to.
There is a mod that fixes this so cyborgs still get to wear fashionable shoes
(And those gloves don’t add much armour either, the reason you lose so many is that they have TINY part hp so small damage that would normally heal is enough to slice off a finger or toe.)
That's a really good point regarding the use of an inspiration. I'm currently using flak + devilstrand/hyperweave, but the next crafting inspiration I get, I'll use on armor. Maybe I'll have my main melee pawn be the one marine armor wearer.
Yeah my go to is basically just having guys look like fallout nv rangers.
Recon helmet, flak vest, devil strand duster, pants, and shirt.
If you wanna take it a step or two further there are 2 other textiles that beat out devilstrand. Hyperweave is the best, second is thrumbo fur, then it's devilstrand coming in third.
Technically yes, but depending on what you want it for Devilstrand is still 'better' Hyperweave is limited by its rarity since its not a growable resource, so its harder to get full sets for multiple pawns, otherwise yes, its strictly an upgrade.
Thrumbo fur depends if you want heat or sharp resist - for sharp (or cold weather) you go Fur, for heat (and thus preventing deaths when everything is on fire) you go Devilstrand. Fur is also a leather type, means it has some things it can and cant be used for vs Devilstrand which is a cloth. I'd say neither is a strict upgrade over the other.
Short answer, yes. Long answer, check out this comparison which shows that flak vest + devilstrand duster is competitive with *marine armor*. You can check out the calculations in this post:
[Marine Armor vs Duster + Flak Vest by the numbers](https://www.reddit.com/r/RimWorld/comments/kjlgie/marine_armor_vs_duster_flak_vest_by_the_numbers/)
Ever since I came across that post, I switched my melee to flak vests and devilstrand dusters. As you mentioned, it's a LOT easier to keep gear current and when limbs do get blown off, bionic replacements are better than the original anyway. I'm in a mountain base, so I deal with infestations on a regular basis and my non-marine armor melee pawns have no trouble holding the line. I've also gone up against Apocritons and War Queens, which I suspect might lean on the side of marine armor, as 2 of my 4 melee pawns were knocked down from a ton of bruises. However, given the sheer amount of time it takes for marine armor to be crafted, I plan to stick to my current loadout.
There's a mod that makes multi-layer armors better [https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1321600671](https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1321600671)
and there's CE
You can get close in vanilla, but I still prefer recon. If you do the sensible thing and at least use Thick Armour mod with default settings, recon is just better. Combat Extended power armour laughs at unpowered armour though.
I almost never see any serious play through use recon armor.
The big thing is that it is not really a solid upgrade to flak armor while i believe being considerably more expensive to manufacture
It's very good on kiters, good general protection with no speed penalty.
But the important part is you only really use it if you get it as a quest reward. It's very rarely ever worth making yourself.
It is the best\* armor combo in the game.
Mostly becaue its mass-producable and easily replaced. you can spam your build orders until everyone has a Excellent or better set, and then one to spare.
The heavier armor marine/cataphract are too expensive to easily get everyone in it, unless you're maximizing everything. I usually reserve it for Melee and/or high rank nobles(Psycasters). Replacement arms are cheap, and they work better anyways.
Let’s just say it already, Vests and Dusters aka VD’s are contagious, omnipresent and easy to obtain (too easy if you ask me). If you want to get a good VD, just spend a mere quadrum or two out on the Rim and you are GUARANTEED to catch one. Be it from the animals or in the mines with your mates (both of which are key to getting a get good VD). VD’s are coming on fast whether you like it or not, and most of them will last awhile if not forever. They are dependable that way. But seriously, if the aforementioned wasn’t serious enough. Standard issue is the best quality flak vest and duster you can make and then Marine and Recon Armors for specific colonists and situations, as required. Where there is a need for speed (ie. kiters, snipers and seek/destroy brawlers) then it is recon as the upgrade. If it’s stationary abuse you are after (ie. meat shields, firing line shooters) then marine all the way. STYLE is a factor. SPEED is a factor. VD’s are pretty much standard issue. The specialty armours, for the investment should have a reason (and so should the aesthetics) Can’t have a someone plowing a field in a space suit, that’s just not a thing (ask Matt Damon) sigh… sigh…..
I’d hate to reply to my own comment, but any reply is a good reply, as they say (?) Now, aside from my vast experience with VD’s I’d like to apply some evidence, anecdotally. My last play-thru, which I might add, made it off the accursed Rim, on Phoebe-boy-was-it-a-climax Climax, blood and dust, via ship launch - with two deaths and one serious maiming (a classic 2-4-1 deal). One pawn passed earlier of the same affliction, but the passed and downed pawns of the late game were of the typical specialty/support kit-out I.E. sporting proper VD’s (excellent Flak vests/devilstrrand dusters, respectively (I mean they were married, as it happens). During a late game raid whereby my Marine/Recon Armored Meatshields and Thrumbo-Flak Rifleman were bruised unto a black and blue maelstrom of missed opportunities by the enemy, these two betrothed pawns were downed and killed respectively vis-a-vis a dually bipedal amputating blast to the former and a succinctly decapitating trauma to the latter. Both in flak helmets, both riddled in VD’s. You can imagine the loss of the husbands legs and wife in a single day AND truly wonder if he could have one of the two (or three, I suppose) back, what he would indeed have chosen? … Another key takeaway from the battle being my highly prized kiter/sniper extraordinaire having taken a severe ‘bruise on the HEART from a single sniper rifle bullet. Sporting his finest white thrumbo duster (exc.) over his flak vest (exc) over devilstrand shirt (also etc) it does make me wonder if he but had one less roll of the dice I.E. Marine Armor and a nice red shirt, what would have happened if the roll was cut from thrice to twice despite the strength of the Marine Armor, however nice… All in all, the least armored pawns seem to be the ones who fall / when will my tortured artist finally strike big after a bout of syphilis?)
This kind of analysis comes up like once a week here. Never been that impressed. The value of resources is not fixed. It barely matters if dusters are cheaper, by the time you have a few made the value of plasteel and adv comps will have dropped for you and marine will not be that pricy to make. Or it won't, because of circumstances, just like devilstrand might not be optimal, because of circumstances.
This game is about adapting, not applying an optimal template to every situation. If you are doing the same thing every colony, you need to install more mods and crank up some difficulty and get out of that comfort zone.
This kind of thing is misleading for new players that there is a right answer to this question. The right answer is to make and use whatever you can get.
For torso, neck, and shoulder protection, yes. Arms beyond the shoulder and legs are only protected by the duster, but unlike the neck, torso, and subsequently the heart, they aren't vital. There is no movement penalty with recon armor, but a vest, and flak pants, do, which could be worth considering.
furthermore recon armor increases carry weight and allows one to wield minigun more easily
wild, I didn't know this
That sounds like a mod.
i am eternally playing with CE so i dunno, also pure vanilla is lame
a particular good set of flak vest, duster/cape, pant, button-down shirt can rival the overall protection of marine armor, aside from different body part protecion dmg is rolled from outer layer in, so more layr = more roll Francis John did a video on it, in summary, marine or cataphract-wearing pawns die often time of 1-shot to neck & head and it's obvious why, only things like charge lance's 1-shot really deal the killing blows on heart or torso
Marine/cataphract-wearing pawns die often to 1-shot in head/neck just because they are surviving all other damage.
exactly. survivor bias.
interesting... this is Vanilla only or also CE applicable?
CE makes armor much better due to the fact that everything that below the armor pierce threshold cannot hit your pawn. I had a single marine in legendary armor fend off 20 raiders with small arms because they just could not pierce his armor.
Wow thats crazy tankiness! I'm playing a run with CE and Diego Industrial as storyteller. So no power armor for me. I'm still figuring out what kind of setup will be my standard army dessing code.
a flak vest and a composite helmet will take you very far. especially if you're making good use of cover. you'll rarely get shot in places like the legs, if ever, behind embrasures because it covers all the way to the head. this means you can forgo flak pants and not deal with the move speed debuff.
Bro’s ribs must be powder by now
nah, the mod changes how those stuff works massively no more vanilla dice rolls
can you elaborate?
in vanilla, the game roll the dice to determine if dmg is dealt 0 < x (roll result) <100 x < armor%/2 = 0 dmg armor%/2 < x < armor% = dmg/2 x > armor% = full dmg ArmorPen & cover is additive to armor%, e.g: armor = 60% sharp, AP = 40%, now the die rolls against 20% dmg rolls from outer layers in (duster -> vest -> shirt) so if you're particularly unlucky with dice roll, you can eat full dmg from an arrow despite wearing marine armor -- in CE, it's bullet/projectile-based, a pawn behind barricade will actually have his lower body protected rather than somehow still get his toe shot down by an arrow armors actually reduce dmg as the bullet penetrates through armor layers, so no chance of receiving full dmg from an arrow while wearing 3 layers of armors
i asked the wrong person to elaborate, heh. sorry but thank you for your time!
CE turns the system from you having to evaluate risk vs reward, to "bigger number better"
I'd wear recon for looks but really if you are looking for mobility go for locust armour instead, slightly less full body armour but comes with built in jump pack letting you bring another utility item like shield belt for melee etc
Im quite partial to prestige recon armour too. It's handy on a caster. All the prestige armours have the same psy sensitivity boost, but recon is much cheaper and doesn't restrict movement. If your casting in the back wearing a shield belt, the protection dosnt matter as much. The eltex gear offers more, but can't be crafted. But eltex shirt can be worn under any other armor set up.
There is no reason to ever craft recon armor since for kiters your gonna want either a jump pack or a shield belt. And if you can make a jumpack make locust. But I do find recon is most useful as a quest reward or if you get the option to buy it and have excess silver. Since you can avoid the research cost and still get some good armor for your kiter. So I normally pick up a suit of recon if it's economical until I can get locust. Since a recon + shield belt is gonna perform pretty close to a locust in their role.
Flak vest and duster is generally the best one size fits all because it's economical and protects vital organs relatively the best (obv high marine or cata is a diff story). That said, for melee, even a bad set of recon armour can be vastly superior. Heck even a decent set of plate armour can be useful. Situations like bug blocking and man hunters having the arm and leg protection will keep them in the fight much longer.
Yes, but if you’re short on devilstrand it would be better to make devilstrand *shirts* (and pants) and wear them underneath the recon armor But if devilstrand is not a limiting factor then go full devilstrand clothes and a flak vest as it’s the better option for light/standard armor Marine armor is more debatable, but quality cataphract armor is definitely more protective as it can reach near 200% sharp protection with masterwork and like 215% legendary. Making you immune to anything that doesn’t have at least 16% AP I’ve had a hussar in legendary cataphract armor have his armor (like 90% durability at the start) break before he got downed
If you have a pawn with inspiration, you can get full body coverage of a high quality armour with one build. I'd usually prefer to make a weapon since they can last forever though. Anyway, I use a mod that extends full body armour to cover hands and feet, (little known fact: your sci-fi powered armour leaves you barefoot) so it has that going for it.
This is actually something I realized in my current playthrough. I had never been crafting shoes/footwraps or gloves/handwraps, which explains why so many of my pawns were losing toes and fingers despite being fairly well armored otherwise. So far I've noticed a decline in the number of missing toes and fingers (and really, a missing toe takes out 4% movement speed?) Fun thing happened though; I was going through checking armor for my pawns and one didn't have any boots on. I tried to force him to wear boots and it said he wasn't capable of wearing boots. Then I realized he had two bionic legs (because he kept getting his legs blown off) and apparently if you don't have any organic feet, you don't have to wear boots, which is fun.
Bionic Arms / Legs don't have individual parts, so for the bionic arm, they're "only" shoulders (but they still give you the manipulation even without hands). This is why you can't have Bionic Arm + Field Hand -- there's no hand to attach to.
There is a mod that fixes this so cyborgs still get to wear fashionable shoes (And those gloves don’t add much armour either, the reason you lose so many is that they have TINY part hp so small damage that would normally heal is enough to slice off a finger or toe.)
That's a really good point regarding the use of an inspiration. I'm currently using flak + devilstrand/hyperweave, but the next crafting inspiration I get, I'll use on armor. Maybe I'll have my main melee pawn be the one marine armor wearer.
Yeah my go to is basically just having guys look like fallout nv rangers. Recon helmet, flak vest, devil strand duster, pants, and shirt. If you wanna take it a step or two further there are 2 other textiles that beat out devilstrand. Hyperweave is the best, second is thrumbo fur, then it's devilstrand coming in third.
Technically yes, but depending on what you want it for Devilstrand is still 'better' Hyperweave is limited by its rarity since its not a growable resource, so its harder to get full sets for multiple pawns, otherwise yes, its strictly an upgrade. Thrumbo fur depends if you want heat or sharp resist - for sharp (or cold weather) you go Fur, for heat (and thus preventing deaths when everything is on fire) you go Devilstrand. Fur is also a leather type, means it has some things it can and cant be used for vs Devilstrand which is a cloth. I'd say neither is a strict upgrade over the other.
Short answer, yes. Long answer, check out this comparison which shows that flak vest + devilstrand duster is competitive with *marine armor*. You can check out the calculations in this post: [Marine Armor vs Duster + Flak Vest by the numbers](https://www.reddit.com/r/RimWorld/comments/kjlgie/marine_armor_vs_duster_flak_vest_by_the_numbers/) Ever since I came across that post, I switched my melee to flak vests and devilstrand dusters. As you mentioned, it's a LOT easier to keep gear current and when limbs do get blown off, bionic replacements are better than the original anyway. I'm in a mountain base, so I deal with infestations on a regular basis and my non-marine armor melee pawns have no trouble holding the line. I've also gone up against Apocritons and War Queens, which I suspect might lean on the side of marine armor, as 2 of my 4 melee pawns were knocked down from a ton of bruises. However, given the sheer amount of time it takes for marine armor to be crafted, I plan to stick to my current loadout.
Tip für's Englisch. Das Wort "or" am Ende eine's Satzes geht nicht.
Tipp um zu helfen , immer die Lösung mit dazu ne danke Werd mal nach schauen , ist glaube sowas wie " isnt it?"
Naja, es kommt drauf an. Oft kann mann einfach die Frage ausdrücken.
It's okay, his English is the yellow of the egg
There's a mod that makes multi-layer armors better [https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1321600671](https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1321600671) and there's CE
You can get close in vanilla, but I still prefer recon. If you do the sensible thing and at least use Thick Armour mod with default settings, recon is just better. Combat Extended power armour laughs at unpowered armour though.
I almost never see any serious play through use recon armor. The big thing is that it is not really a solid upgrade to flak armor while i believe being considerably more expensive to manufacture
I think the Armor values are even lower but they cover the entire body.
It's good for kiters specifically since you get solid protection with no speed penalty.
It's very good on kiters, good general protection with no speed penalty. But the important part is you only really use it if you get it as a quest reward. It's very rarely ever worth making yourself.
That is saying a lot in a world where the production specialist exists handing out master crafts like candy
Human primacy meme deserves its separate category of OP. It is rarely seen in any serious play-through.
If you're crafting it just make locust armor. You get a free jump pack for minimal protection loss.
It is the best\* armor combo in the game. Mostly becaue its mass-producable and easily replaced. you can spam your build orders until everyone has a Excellent or better set, and then one to spare. The heavier armor marine/cataphract are too expensive to easily get everyone in it, unless you're maximizing everything. I usually reserve it for Melee and/or high rank nobles(Psycasters). Replacement arms are cheap, and they work better anyways.
Let’s just say it already, Vests and Dusters aka VD’s are contagious, omnipresent and easy to obtain (too easy if you ask me). If you want to get a good VD, just spend a mere quadrum or two out on the Rim and you are GUARANTEED to catch one. Be it from the animals or in the mines with your mates (both of which are key to getting a get good VD). VD’s are coming on fast whether you like it or not, and most of them will last awhile if not forever. They are dependable that way. But seriously, if the aforementioned wasn’t serious enough. Standard issue is the best quality flak vest and duster you can make and then Marine and Recon Armors for specific colonists and situations, as required. Where there is a need for speed (ie. kiters, snipers and seek/destroy brawlers) then it is recon as the upgrade. If it’s stationary abuse you are after (ie. meat shields, firing line shooters) then marine all the way. STYLE is a factor. SPEED is a factor. VD’s are pretty much standard issue. The specialty armours, for the investment should have a reason (and so should the aesthetics) Can’t have a someone plowing a field in a space suit, that’s just not a thing (ask Matt Damon) sigh… sigh…..
I’d hate to reply to my own comment, but any reply is a good reply, as they say (?) Now, aside from my vast experience with VD’s I’d like to apply some evidence, anecdotally. My last play-thru, which I might add, made it off the accursed Rim, on Phoebe-boy-was-it-a-climax Climax, blood and dust, via ship launch - with two deaths and one serious maiming (a classic 2-4-1 deal). One pawn passed earlier of the same affliction, but the passed and downed pawns of the late game were of the typical specialty/support kit-out I.E. sporting proper VD’s (excellent Flak vests/devilstrrand dusters, respectively (I mean they were married, as it happens). During a late game raid whereby my Marine/Recon Armored Meatshields and Thrumbo-Flak Rifleman were bruised unto a black and blue maelstrom of missed opportunities by the enemy, these two betrothed pawns were downed and killed respectively vis-a-vis a dually bipedal amputating blast to the former and a succinctly decapitating trauma to the latter. Both in flak helmets, both riddled in VD’s. You can imagine the loss of the husbands legs and wife in a single day AND truly wonder if he could have one of the two (or three, I suppose) back, what he would indeed have chosen? … Another key takeaway from the battle being my highly prized kiter/sniper extraordinaire having taken a severe ‘bruise on the HEART from a single sniper rifle bullet. Sporting his finest white thrumbo duster (exc.) over his flak vest (exc) over devilstrand shirt (also etc) it does make me wonder if he but had one less roll of the dice I.E. Marine Armor and a nice red shirt, what would have happened if the roll was cut from thrice to twice despite the strength of the Marine Armor, however nice… All in all, the least armored pawns seem to be the ones who fall / when will my tortured artist finally strike big after a bout of syphilis?)
Im sorry but noone is reading allat
I wish the pawns can wearing armor with cape (I am absolutely not addicted to helldivers 2)
Devilstrain Dusters are better than Powerarmor, so easy yes. Maybe not if you are going on some hard quest, but for 90% of your battles you want DDs
I have a mod for devilstrand flak clothes. It's really good.
Now that’s what I’m here to see lol
This kind of analysis comes up like once a week here. Never been that impressed. The value of resources is not fixed. It barely matters if dusters are cheaper, by the time you have a few made the value of plasteel and adv comps will have dropped for you and marine will not be that pricy to make. Or it won't, because of circumstances, just like devilstrand might not be optimal, because of circumstances. This game is about adapting, not applying an optimal template to every situation. If you are doing the same thing every colony, you need to install more mods and crank up some difficulty and get out of that comfort zone. This kind of thing is misleading for new players that there is a right answer to this question. The right answer is to make and use whatever you can get.