If it was me....
You won't be holding my hand, I'll squirm if you try to kiss, I don't want to know your friends, I will be distant with you. I can't hold a conversation, sex will be rare and I won't enjoy it. My friends won't visit because there isn't any.
You would have to expect that you would forever live with a stranger. That every attempt at intimacy would be returned with superficiality, except for the occasional unguarded moment that would give you hope, but would immediately be retracted and followed by a period of greater distance. The only thing that could make me even less comfortable would be attempts to make me more comfortable.
>You would have to expect that you would forever live with a stranger.
A thousand times, this. *This* will be the foundation for whatever you aspire to build with this man. Ignore it at your own peril.
You have summed up beautifully exactly what I did wrong and how it felt, in a way I couldn't really explain until reading this. Those unguarded moments really are so cherished. The retractions were so hard to understand. I tried to make things better for them in the worst possible ways I think. Hindsight...
If the Boy you like is really schizoid, then you like don't know the guy at all. And if you by some miracle get together, you will likly never become a true couple, in the traditional sense. You will be living with a stranger, that will reject any attempts at emotional intimacy. The more you want to open up, the more he will retreat. Also non of this would be fixable, he would be that way forever. You will not be able to change him, and any attempt to do so will drive him further away.
If depite all of tha you still want a relationship with him, then do it at arms length. Treat him more like a distant friend, that you know forever, but barely talk to eachother. You will never get the kind of relationship you imagine in your mind, or that you see in movies where they slowly open up, that's just not how it works.
Sorry for the bad news, but that's just what you have to expect if he is really schizoid.
The only relationship i have is a long distance one and honestly sometimes it feels to me like i'm playing one of those text romance games like mystic messenger
You probably like the idea of him. This is much different than actually liking him. Depending on his propensity for social masking, you might be attracted to a contrived illusion.
I mean, there is general advice like talking about space and boundaries required by both parties and coming to mutual understanding. It may be difficult considering how those with SPD interact with others. A lot of advice hinges on what symptoms apply to them. How do they express their emotions, if at all? How do they view relationships? Just a few examples, but it really does matter because not every symptom of SPD applies to those that have it.
[Here's a megathread from a while back that we asked for input by similar people who've been in your position](https://www.reddit.com/r/Schizoid/comments/138vhw4/schizoid_loved_ones_megathread/) and [here's a few threads from other users who've asked the same question in your position](https://old.reddit.com/r/Schizoid/wiki/bestof#wiki_advice_for_non-schizoids_interacting_with_schizoids).
Unfortunately, the short version of it is that schizoids are hard people to be in relationships with. Most of the time we're significantly more emotionally reserved and need much more personal space than people expect from a traditional relationship. We tend to live in our head and what you might view as a small step towards intimacy and/or connection might be seen as a massive step forward for the schizoid. To be very reductive, it's a case of trying to have a relationship with a very emotionally closed off person.
"But I can change! He can get better!" you might say. Is it theoretically possible? Technically yes, but in practice that's never going to happen. Change, especially change for personality disorders, is incredibly hard and takes a ton of time, effort, and motivation. Even those of us who want to put in the work often spend years getting to a point where we can live more normally with SPD. Nothing you say, no matter how much you care about him, is going to change that. If anything, trying to push someone into therapy is asking them to push you away. In the end, he's going to change or not change on his own timeline and his own accord. That's the only way getting better really works.
Can you make a relationship with a schizoid work? Sure,if you're comfortable with what you're getting into. Some of us, particularly the higher functioning schizoids or ones who've decided to put the work in during therapy, have found partners. If you accept that what you see is likely what you are going to get and that you can't expect the person to change. That said, all relationships are tricky but workable if you are a good fit for each other and communication is key to figure out how strong that fit is.
As a schizoid in a polycule before I figured myself out and looked over my old diagnosis, do not recommend. They will always be other boys and you will always have other loves. Please go find somebody else, and you will be happier. But if you hate yourself or see struggle as a virtue, I can give my own POV.
Hi I'm a schizoid after years of therapy and if your guy is anything like me...
-you're going to have to become really okay really quickly with somebody you love being completely emotionally independent from you. Someone who won't be broken if you die or break up with them, but somebody who will still laugh with you if not make you laugh and more. All of the love but none of the entanglement. And it's a little like how cats value their independence and will scratch and claw or run away from you the more you try and grab or force them to cuddle with you.
-you're going to have to learn different ways people express affection and that affection does not always manifest itself in the form of cuddles or physical contact or desire for proximity. It's basically unlearning literally everything that we have all ever been told about relationships from birth and it's fucking exhausting and should not be a starter relationship. It is going to fucking suck and you're going to doubt your worth and your partner's love for you and maybe if you're even attractive at all to anybody.
-Separating love, attraction and affection from the acts associated with it is something that is hard to parse because it makes no fucking sense to the human brain and no fucking sense to literally anybody. What is love without cuddles or gifts or I love yous? What is attraction without fucking? Absolutely fucking nothing is what every single neuron and every single strand of human DNA screams from the fucking rooftops and so you're going to have to deal with that shrieking in your ear 24/7 every moment that you are with this man.
-if you yourself have no libido and don't enjoy touch or affection or feeling pressured in relationships to be some kind of emotional cornerstone or be somebody's everything, then actually hot diggity damn a schizoid partner is perfect. It's basically being with an asexual aromantic person who just got back from their lobotomy.
-don't compromise who you are or what you want or need. End of. People need validation the love and affection in their relationships. Like it or not that's just how science is. We cannot provide that. Getting in the relationship with us is already choosing self harm. Deadass do not do it, love cannot conquer all.
-IDK what will happen if you still somehow both get with him and manage to stay the course. I would say that my relationships have made me more emotionally literate, more understanding and better at masking but I cannot say what the benefits that they themselves have gotten out of it are aside from just not having to reenter the dating world in current year.
Good luck.
You don't.
Personally I had "relationships" (in hindsight I wouldn't call them that but I've never dated the respective person we were friends and then one day (mostly when I was really inebriated I was stupid enough to enter a rs, just to be clear I've never had sex with them) but then after some time (mostly one to two weeks) they started complaining that I was cold, distant, didn't care about them etc. that was the moment any affection I might have had vanished, I tried to be more affectionate on the outside while mentally and emotionally it was completely over.
Honestly it was my mistake since I did and still have problems with saying No (just to be clear I do say No when it comes to people wanting to date me etc), don't get me wrong I liked them and felt something that I thought was what being in love felt like but the second it was a relationship or they tried to "force" things on me (as in regularly kissing, I hate public cuddling, kissing etc. in my fantasies I do like it in private though; didn't feel safe enough with them to actually continue to be alone with them after they made it clear they wanted to be more intimate on a physical level) I felt trapped yet guilty and the affection I had was gone and everytime a spark returned it was destroyed by them wanting to talk to me everyday for hours and see me everyday. Just to clarify things I was a teenager back then and got into it bc of bullying (I thought having a bf would make me appear more normal) and I did like the guys I was having one with at first but the thing is I seemed to enjoy a friendship in which I sometimes started to develop sparks of a warm and fuzzy yet confusing feeling when I was around them more than actually being in a committed relationship. Strangely enough I never fantasies of those guys (normally I am very prone to elaborate fantasies), I assume it was because I knew that I could have a relationship with them (even in the very beginning) normally I almost only start having fantasies about someone when
a) they start distancing themselves from me (after I started liking/trusting them (in a non-romantic way)
b) it is a relationship that was professional/distant from the very beginning plus the respective person must have certain traits or have to feel safe to me (strangely enough never with doctors, therapists etc. maybe bc I knew how someone like that can screw you over/they have too much power over me and therapists after some time get emotionally too close and of course also the power imbalance)
c) with fictional characters
d) when it is someone from my past with about zero chance of us meeting again
I've come to realise I can only allow myself to get emotionally somewhat close to someone if it is a relationship that was always meant to be a distant one. I can handle getting closer to that person by now though but in the beginning I need some sort of safety net and distance (maybe due to clear roles, age difference etc)
With my friends I am unable to become really emotionally attached to them or open to a change of the rs, I experience sparks of attachment and emotions but they are mostly off but mostly I enjoy talking to them, I do care about them though just often not with any real feeling involved (this kinda makes me sound like a psychopath xD). The afore mentioned safety net or distance allows me to be more open to natural changes to the rs (in theory mostly lol) because I have time to observe the other person without them emotionally demanding things from me or my own requirements for myself when dealing with other people, as in I don't try to force myself to reciprocate constantly (in other words I don't force myself to have feelings or to want to spend time with them, sometimes (very rarely) I start liking them and want to spend time with them but the development is different)
Idk if this applies to the boy you describe (or if it applies to anyone here) those are my personal experiences. All in all I would recommend you observing him, talking to him (but don't throw a "I know you are schizoid" at him, for one thing you do not know you just assume he is (you could ask him if you know him well enough though) and also if someone I don't know too well would so much as ask me I'd probably run, I could deal with it if the person was more like idk could it be that some of those things apply, I might be wrong though etc. but still... yet tbh I or we would probably just switch so that's that xD, probably doesn't apply to most people though
Either you're the right kind of personality(ie similar) to gel with him or not IME. My wife is very similar, hates socializing and dating. Admittedly the first couple years of living together had some rough patches, but our silences are never awkward, the far from conventional fruit of our imaginations are never received poorly, we're just weird together. I would urge any schizoid to keep playing the field because ___it is better to have relationships___ but you can see how the single ones feel. We make eachother better.
i actually really agree with this, even with my nihilistic views on dating. if you both live relatively stable lives and have similar values, it can work out.
I see this question get asked once per month at least.
I got diagnosed far too late and now I'm in damage control. She was heavily pregnant when I was diagnosed.
I stop what I'm doing and leave work in the middle of the day at least once per week because she calls me needing help with something or is melting down about the baby not sleeping. I pay the entire mortgage and 90% of bills while she does the housewife thing she's always wanted.
But it'll never be enough for her because she says I'm not supportive.
So I googled what being supportive means and it says, "repeat what they're feeling back to them."
So I tried it a few times, "I'm sorry that they cancelled your appointment- that must be so frustrating"
But then she said that it felt disingenuous and belittling and to stop.
About 70% of the time she says I rush sex and I need to romance and tease her more. About 25% of the time she says, "what are you doing? I wish you would be forceful and just take me!". About 5% of the time I get it right. It makes sex stressful and feel like hard work.
It's your clown world, I just live here.
I do understand and empathize with your situation. Some of this was learned behaviour for me (not Schizoid, autistic) so I understand these contradicting criticisms often are driven by emotion that I don't necessarily equate with those things.
I was hoping I could shed some light on why it felt disingenuous (even though I think making the attempt to look it up would have meant more to me, personally.) The phrase "I'm sorry this happened to you" in the context of a close relationship and wanting empathy from someone feels very distancing. Like it's not a we thing, you're on your own.
I'm trying to think of some punny clown related signoff but I've got nothing lol
““At this very moment,” he went on, “the most frightful horrors are taking place in every corner of the world. People are being crushed, slashed, disembowelled, mangled; their dead bodies rot and their eyes decay with the rest. Screams of pain and fear go pulsing through the air at the rate of eleven hundred feet per second. After travelling for three seconds they are perfectly inaudible. These are distressing facts; but do we enjoy life any the less because of them? Most certainly we do not. We feel sympathy, no doubt; we represent to ourselves imaginatively the sufferings of nations and individuals and we deplore them. But, after all, what are sympathy and imagination? Precious little, unless the person for whom we feel sympathy happens to be closely involved in our affections; and even then they don’t go very far. And a good thing too; for if one had an imagination vivid enough and a sympathy sufficiently sensitive really to comprehend and to feel the sufferings of other people, one would never have a moment’s peace of mind. A really sympathetic race would not so much as know the meaning of happiness. But luckily, as I’ve already said, we aren’t a sympathetic race. At the beginning of the war I used to think I really suffered, through imagination and sympathy, with those who physically suffered. But after a month or two I had to admit that, honestly, I didn’t. And yet I think I have a more vivid imagination than most. One is always alone in suffering; the fact is depressing when one happens to be the sufferer, but it makes pleasure possible for the rest of the world.”
There was a pause. Henry Wimbush pushed back his chair.
“I think perhaps we ought to go and join the ladies,” he said.
“So do I,” said Ivor, jumping up with alacrity. He turned to Mr. Scogan. “Fortunately,” he said, “we can share our pleasures. We are not always condemned to be happy alone.” “
¬– Huxley (1921) Chrome Yellow.
I guess the point that I was trying to make is that NTs want a world where everybody shares self evident truths with each other so that they don't feel alone in their pain.
But, by definition, if everybody felt empathy for everyone, then everybody on earth would be as miserable as the most miserable person on earth that day.
So clearly there's an empathy cutoff: I'm not actually that concerned that my cousin's hairdresser's neighbour's brother's lawnmowerman's sister lost her job because she signed in at 930 but didn't actually sign in till 933- but I say, "ugh, that's so shit" and immediately forget as soon as the conversation ends.
I posit to you that humans, as a species are not capable of perfect empathy, otherwise everybody on earth would be equally as miserable because misery would be perfectly conserved.
There's an efficiency loss of empathy inversely proportional to how much you care about the afflicted individual. If your best friend is 100% sad: you feel 80% sad; their postman's florist's plumber feels 0.01% sad.
This conservation of misery does not apply the other way. You can meet a complete stranger and share in their good news and bring each other to the highest highs.
This is how most relationships start, with constructive interference of two people feeling good about themselves.
But when you're feeling down, you can never depend on another person to understand you or feel your pain, because, by definition, they have a dilution factor.
So you're always isolated when you're sad, but you can share happiness with another person.
Now imagine all of this, but also sometimes women have hormones which make them angry for no good reason. So they wake up angry and need to reverse engineer a reason for their anger and call you up at work to blast you: "why didn't you leave the curtains open for the dog to look out the window!?".
Now imagine that once they get pregnant.
Then you'll find out what a clown world really is.
Once they miss a cheap secondhand BBQ on Facebook marketplace and you hear them sobbing in the shower, "I hate myself".
How are you supposed to emphasise with that?
That's clearly just crazy hormones right?
What about six years prior when she was due for her period and refused to eat her favourite meal I prepared for her in bed because I gave her the wrong fork? What's the empathetic reaction there?
Empathy is a scam which benefits women.
I don't really know what to say for this because I feel like this is a conclusion based on incorrect logic. I'm happy to discuss this further in DM if it interests you at all but I really don't feel comfortable elaborating in a group setting even though they're not really things I feel any kind of way about everyone knowing. Anxiety is strange.
The fork thing sounds more like something I'd do as someone with autism (although I'd just go change the fork myself.) Or more of an OCD thing. Or even a mood disorder, some of which are specific to menstruation. It's not really an acceptable way to treat you, regardless.
Given the way that women are treated/viewed/considered in the world, empathy is not really the word that comes to mind. I can understand from how you've described your situation how you would come to that conclusion, though.
I don't know if I would consider this a completely NT perspective. I only have my own and I am not NT. I tend to have the opposite experience with them, where they find any darkness really uncomfortable to talk about. They prefer it to be superficial and I always fail them in that way because it feels so dishonest and indifferent to be like "yeah, sucks."
Most people I know who want to be connected to others, are not necessarily looking to share pain or happiness but to be understood. It is hard to be understood and hard to feel understood and hard to truly understand others.
Sometimes people do take on too much of the horrors of the world, and it is very distressing. People have to make themselves care less for their own sanity and that's understandable.
Autistic people vary but a lot of us have very deep emotions and feelings of empathy but express them in ways that are considered inappropriate. Of course, I have to factor in that some of this is projection based on my own experiences. For example, I saw what you said, I related it to my own experiences of being criticized while doing my best to go back and forth in what was communicated to me, and I knew how I felt about it. So it motivated me to comment because although it's not an obvious display of empathy, I thought if it helped you to know, it might make your life easier. I don't know you. I just knew it hurt me and I cared for someone else to not have to feel like that. Maybe you felt absolutely nothing writing it.
I've found empathy for and from strangers in very unexpected situations, whom I never saw again. It's not just care and vulnerability that make up components of empathy. It's not just how close you are or aren't. Sometimes it's strangers with a shared experience that heals a little bit from being understood. The shared experiences can even be from opposing sides of the experience. Sadness is absolutely shared in that way. It's good when it's understood and damaging when it isn't. So for me sometimes being sad alone is a choice that I make, because I know I won't be understood. In the same way, I sometimes don't share my happiness because the significance of it won't be understood by most, but if I can understand the significance of something to someone else, I can genuinely share in their happiness and sadness.
Again, I can only really speak from my lived experiences and perspective, and the things I've had to learn to exist as a ND person in a NT world.
Hmm... Have you tried laughing maniacally and inviting him to plot world domination with you? It's even better if you volunteer to be the one who handles the social stuff, while he gets to make laws and do other non social parts of the job.
Sorry. Couldn't resist. Just be aware that many of us struggle with relationships and, even if everything works out, he'll probably need a lot of alone time.
It's more what you expect and what you think that relationship means with that individual; before bringing them 'into the fold'.
If you are fine being in a relationship where that 'relationship' maybe exists 5/365 (number varies) days a year, that's probably what it's like. Maybe you can squeeze and stretch a couple more days or whatever, but would be hard-pressed to expect it to go beyond that.
Hmm. Interesting. I was talking to my therapist about this a bit yesterday. I explained it kinda fucked up, but here goes. I am a “whole person” without having consistent connection and community. Other people are “whole persons” but they desire connection and community. I show I care and my love via acts of service (more often, I’d rather do the thing and get it out the way and make life easier on us both). I will listen to your emotional ramblings with patience and offer comfort and silence, in addition to solutions. I don’t become emotionally affected by your problems, more I become emotionall affected because you are..and I’d like to end your suffering.. a long with mine, in dealing with whatever the situation may be.
Now, this is where my relationships find trouble… they don’t view me as “whole” within the relationship because I don’t deeply fulfill that emotional well for connection they have. So then, I become demonized even though I’m legitimately putting forth as much energy as I’m able to.
So it seems both parties end up equally dissatisfied.
Honestly, dating I would simply mask it all and pretend to be what I think is the person you are looking for. The masking (pretending to be something other than what I am) is tiring, so you eventually see it here and there. But the dating would be very normal - it's just that I would be drained during and after our date (but you'd hopefully never see that).
If I were to fall in love with you, well then you would be my sole reason to exist. My whole world would change with you now at the center. As it is, being single atm, life is pointless, empty and long.
All in all, the only thing that marks me different as a schizoid, is being around others (myself and you included, but less so) is draining and I kinda dislike it. All social events are a required effort (like going to a job interview). I try to be someone else even once my partner has seen beyond the masks at that blackhole, but it makes me miserable.
Expect the following:
A lot of quiet. We don’t converse much.
A lot of space. We tend to stick to solitary hobbies.
A lot of decision making. We tend to not have an opinion on anything we don’t find terribly important.
Staying home most nights. We tend to prefer the safety of our most familiar environment.
Not much emotional support. We can mask but most of us do not enjoy it. It’s draining.
The upside is most of us are extremely low maintenance. We’ve learned to be self sufficient so we won’t have to lean on you for much, if anything really. If you’re also low maintenance then I don’t personally predict any issues. But if you’re not then it might be the worst relationship you’ll ever experience.
The question you need to ask yourself is, are you ok with a relationship that doesn’t feel very deep with someone who doesn’t need you, even though they may want you?
Be persistent but noncommital, be playful and don't treat things too seriously.
If i sense that someone likes me and their emotional well-being is dependent on how i respond to them, i shut down and lose interest. I've spent my whole life feeling responsible for other's emotions and now i'm on the other side of the spectrum. I'm too burnt out to care.
So make advances, don't take it personally if he shuts you down. Respect his need for space. If your mental health depends on whether he likes you back or not then it's not a relationship for you to be in unless you enjoy suffering.
well, if you were to ask any of my exes (from before i realized something was wrong- i don’t date anymore), they would say barely and painfully. conversation when im not buzzed is like pulling teeth. not very reactive. sluggish but robotic in the way a depressed person is. the more comfortable i get, the less fun i become basically. it’s likely that the guy you know and the guy he is are pretty different.
Your interest in this person hopefully is unconditional. Accept them for whoever they are, whenever, without expectations. It will be difficult for them to understand how you feel about them. Patience is key, I guess. Give them all the space and autonomy they need, no pressure or social conformity. The moments of "togetherness" will be scarce, but your unconditional patience will make or break it..
And take care of yourself.
If it was me.... You won't be holding my hand, I'll squirm if you try to kiss, I don't want to know your friends, I will be distant with you. I can't hold a conversation, sex will be rare and I won't enjoy it. My friends won't visit because there isn't any.
You would have to expect that you would forever live with a stranger. That every attempt at intimacy would be returned with superficiality, except for the occasional unguarded moment that would give you hope, but would immediately be retracted and followed by a period of greater distance. The only thing that could make me even less comfortable would be attempts to make me more comfortable.
>You would have to expect that you would forever live with a stranger. A thousand times, this. *This* will be the foundation for whatever you aspire to build with this man. Ignore it at your own peril.
You have summed up beautifully exactly what I did wrong and how it felt, in a way I couldn't really explain until reading this. Those unguarded moments really are so cherished. The retractions were so hard to understand. I tried to make things better for them in the worst possible ways I think. Hindsight...
If the Boy you like is really schizoid, then you like don't know the guy at all. And if you by some miracle get together, you will likly never become a true couple, in the traditional sense. You will be living with a stranger, that will reject any attempts at emotional intimacy. The more you want to open up, the more he will retreat. Also non of this would be fixable, he would be that way forever. You will not be able to change him, and any attempt to do so will drive him further away. If depite all of tha you still want a relationship with him, then do it at arms length. Treat him more like a distant friend, that you know forever, but barely talk to eachother. You will never get the kind of relationship you imagine in your mind, or that you see in movies where they slowly open up, that's just not how it works. Sorry for the bad news, but that's just what you have to expect if he is really schizoid.
The only relationship i have is a long distance one and honestly sometimes it feels to me like i'm playing one of those text romance games like mystic messenger
How do I dress to impress a blind man? How do I write a song for this deaf guy I like?
You probably like the idea of him. This is much different than actually liking him. Depending on his propensity for social masking, you might be attracted to a contrived illusion.
I mean, there is general advice like talking about space and boundaries required by both parties and coming to mutual understanding. It may be difficult considering how those with SPD interact with others. A lot of advice hinges on what symptoms apply to them. How do they express their emotions, if at all? How do they view relationships? Just a few examples, but it really does matter because not every symptom of SPD applies to those that have it.
[Here's a megathread from a while back that we asked for input by similar people who've been in your position](https://www.reddit.com/r/Schizoid/comments/138vhw4/schizoid_loved_ones_megathread/) and [here's a few threads from other users who've asked the same question in your position](https://old.reddit.com/r/Schizoid/wiki/bestof#wiki_advice_for_non-schizoids_interacting_with_schizoids). Unfortunately, the short version of it is that schizoids are hard people to be in relationships with. Most of the time we're significantly more emotionally reserved and need much more personal space than people expect from a traditional relationship. We tend to live in our head and what you might view as a small step towards intimacy and/or connection might be seen as a massive step forward for the schizoid. To be very reductive, it's a case of trying to have a relationship with a very emotionally closed off person. "But I can change! He can get better!" you might say. Is it theoretically possible? Technically yes, but in practice that's never going to happen. Change, especially change for personality disorders, is incredibly hard and takes a ton of time, effort, and motivation. Even those of us who want to put in the work often spend years getting to a point where we can live more normally with SPD. Nothing you say, no matter how much you care about him, is going to change that. If anything, trying to push someone into therapy is asking them to push you away. In the end, he's going to change or not change on his own timeline and his own accord. That's the only way getting better really works. Can you make a relationship with a schizoid work? Sure,if you're comfortable with what you're getting into. Some of us, particularly the higher functioning schizoids or ones who've decided to put the work in during therapy, have found partners. If you accept that what you see is likely what you are going to get and that you can't expect the person to change. That said, all relationships are tricky but workable if you are a good fit for each other and communication is key to figure out how strong that fit is.
As a schizoid in a polycule before I figured myself out and looked over my old diagnosis, do not recommend. They will always be other boys and you will always have other loves. Please go find somebody else, and you will be happier. But if you hate yourself or see struggle as a virtue, I can give my own POV. Hi I'm a schizoid after years of therapy and if your guy is anything like me... -you're going to have to become really okay really quickly with somebody you love being completely emotionally independent from you. Someone who won't be broken if you die or break up with them, but somebody who will still laugh with you if not make you laugh and more. All of the love but none of the entanglement. And it's a little like how cats value their independence and will scratch and claw or run away from you the more you try and grab or force them to cuddle with you. -you're going to have to learn different ways people express affection and that affection does not always manifest itself in the form of cuddles or physical contact or desire for proximity. It's basically unlearning literally everything that we have all ever been told about relationships from birth and it's fucking exhausting and should not be a starter relationship. It is going to fucking suck and you're going to doubt your worth and your partner's love for you and maybe if you're even attractive at all to anybody. -Separating love, attraction and affection from the acts associated with it is something that is hard to parse because it makes no fucking sense to the human brain and no fucking sense to literally anybody. What is love without cuddles or gifts or I love yous? What is attraction without fucking? Absolutely fucking nothing is what every single neuron and every single strand of human DNA screams from the fucking rooftops and so you're going to have to deal with that shrieking in your ear 24/7 every moment that you are with this man. -if you yourself have no libido and don't enjoy touch or affection or feeling pressured in relationships to be some kind of emotional cornerstone or be somebody's everything, then actually hot diggity damn a schizoid partner is perfect. It's basically being with an asexual aromantic person who just got back from their lobotomy. -don't compromise who you are or what you want or need. End of. People need validation the love and affection in their relationships. Like it or not that's just how science is. We cannot provide that. Getting in the relationship with us is already choosing self harm. Deadass do not do it, love cannot conquer all. -IDK what will happen if you still somehow both get with him and manage to stay the course. I would say that my relationships have made me more emotionally literate, more understanding and better at masking but I cannot say what the benefits that they themselves have gotten out of it are aside from just not having to reenter the dating world in current year. Good luck.
>Getting in the relationship with us is already choosing self harm. Amen. I don't want anyone indulging in masochism on my account.
Honestly, if he really is schizoid, it'd be surprising if he would want a relationship at all.
You don't. Personally I had "relationships" (in hindsight I wouldn't call them that but I've never dated the respective person we were friends and then one day (mostly when I was really inebriated I was stupid enough to enter a rs, just to be clear I've never had sex with them) but then after some time (mostly one to two weeks) they started complaining that I was cold, distant, didn't care about them etc. that was the moment any affection I might have had vanished, I tried to be more affectionate on the outside while mentally and emotionally it was completely over. Honestly it was my mistake since I did and still have problems with saying No (just to be clear I do say No when it comes to people wanting to date me etc), don't get me wrong I liked them and felt something that I thought was what being in love felt like but the second it was a relationship or they tried to "force" things on me (as in regularly kissing, I hate public cuddling, kissing etc. in my fantasies I do like it in private though; didn't feel safe enough with them to actually continue to be alone with them after they made it clear they wanted to be more intimate on a physical level) I felt trapped yet guilty and the affection I had was gone and everytime a spark returned it was destroyed by them wanting to talk to me everyday for hours and see me everyday. Just to clarify things I was a teenager back then and got into it bc of bullying (I thought having a bf would make me appear more normal) and I did like the guys I was having one with at first but the thing is I seemed to enjoy a friendship in which I sometimes started to develop sparks of a warm and fuzzy yet confusing feeling when I was around them more than actually being in a committed relationship. Strangely enough I never fantasies of those guys (normally I am very prone to elaborate fantasies), I assume it was because I knew that I could have a relationship with them (even in the very beginning) normally I almost only start having fantasies about someone when a) they start distancing themselves from me (after I started liking/trusting them (in a non-romantic way) b) it is a relationship that was professional/distant from the very beginning plus the respective person must have certain traits or have to feel safe to me (strangely enough never with doctors, therapists etc. maybe bc I knew how someone like that can screw you over/they have too much power over me and therapists after some time get emotionally too close and of course also the power imbalance) c) with fictional characters d) when it is someone from my past with about zero chance of us meeting again I've come to realise I can only allow myself to get emotionally somewhat close to someone if it is a relationship that was always meant to be a distant one. I can handle getting closer to that person by now though but in the beginning I need some sort of safety net and distance (maybe due to clear roles, age difference etc) With my friends I am unable to become really emotionally attached to them or open to a change of the rs, I experience sparks of attachment and emotions but they are mostly off but mostly I enjoy talking to them, I do care about them though just often not with any real feeling involved (this kinda makes me sound like a psychopath xD). The afore mentioned safety net or distance allows me to be more open to natural changes to the rs (in theory mostly lol) because I have time to observe the other person without them emotionally demanding things from me or my own requirements for myself when dealing with other people, as in I don't try to force myself to reciprocate constantly (in other words I don't force myself to have feelings or to want to spend time with them, sometimes (very rarely) I start liking them and want to spend time with them but the development is different) Idk if this applies to the boy you describe (or if it applies to anyone here) those are my personal experiences. All in all I would recommend you observing him, talking to him (but don't throw a "I know you are schizoid" at him, for one thing you do not know you just assume he is (you could ask him if you know him well enough though) and also if someone I don't know too well would so much as ask me I'd probably run, I could deal with it if the person was more like idk could it be that some of those things apply, I might be wrong though etc. but still... yet tbh I or we would probably just switch so that's that xD, probably doesn't apply to most people though
Either you're the right kind of personality(ie similar) to gel with him or not IME. My wife is very similar, hates socializing and dating. Admittedly the first couple years of living together had some rough patches, but our silences are never awkward, the far from conventional fruit of our imaginations are never received poorly, we're just weird together. I would urge any schizoid to keep playing the field because ___it is better to have relationships___ but you can see how the single ones feel. We make eachother better.
i actually really agree with this, even with my nihilistic views on dating. if you both live relatively stable lives and have similar values, it can work out.
I see this question get asked once per month at least. I got diagnosed far too late and now I'm in damage control. She was heavily pregnant when I was diagnosed. I stop what I'm doing and leave work in the middle of the day at least once per week because she calls me needing help with something or is melting down about the baby not sleeping. I pay the entire mortgage and 90% of bills while she does the housewife thing she's always wanted. But it'll never be enough for her because she says I'm not supportive. So I googled what being supportive means and it says, "repeat what they're feeling back to them." So I tried it a few times, "I'm sorry that they cancelled your appointment- that must be so frustrating" But then she said that it felt disingenuous and belittling and to stop. About 70% of the time she says I rush sex and I need to romance and tease her more. About 25% of the time she says, "what are you doing? I wish you would be forceful and just take me!". About 5% of the time I get it right. It makes sex stressful and feel like hard work. It's your clown world, I just live here.
I am a Schizoid and I approve this message…
I do understand and empathize with your situation. Some of this was learned behaviour for me (not Schizoid, autistic) so I understand these contradicting criticisms often are driven by emotion that I don't necessarily equate with those things. I was hoping I could shed some light on why it felt disingenuous (even though I think making the attempt to look it up would have meant more to me, personally.) The phrase "I'm sorry this happened to you" in the context of a close relationship and wanting empathy from someone feels very distancing. Like it's not a we thing, you're on your own. I'm trying to think of some punny clown related signoff but I've got nothing lol
““At this very moment,” he went on, “the most frightful horrors are taking place in every corner of the world. People are being crushed, slashed, disembowelled, mangled; their dead bodies rot and their eyes decay with the rest. Screams of pain and fear go pulsing through the air at the rate of eleven hundred feet per second. After travelling for three seconds they are perfectly inaudible. These are distressing facts; but do we enjoy life any the less because of them? Most certainly we do not. We feel sympathy, no doubt; we represent to ourselves imaginatively the sufferings of nations and individuals and we deplore them. But, after all, what are sympathy and imagination? Precious little, unless the person for whom we feel sympathy happens to be closely involved in our affections; and even then they don’t go very far. And a good thing too; for if one had an imagination vivid enough and a sympathy sufficiently sensitive really to comprehend and to feel the sufferings of other people, one would never have a moment’s peace of mind. A really sympathetic race would not so much as know the meaning of happiness. But luckily, as I’ve already said, we aren’t a sympathetic race. At the beginning of the war I used to think I really suffered, through imagination and sympathy, with those who physically suffered. But after a month or two I had to admit that, honestly, I didn’t. And yet I think I have a more vivid imagination than most. One is always alone in suffering; the fact is depressing when one happens to be the sufferer, but it makes pleasure possible for the rest of the world.” There was a pause. Henry Wimbush pushed back his chair. “I think perhaps we ought to go and join the ladies,” he said. “So do I,” said Ivor, jumping up with alacrity. He turned to Mr. Scogan. “Fortunately,” he said, “we can share our pleasures. We are not always condemned to be happy alone.” “ ¬– Huxley (1921) Chrome Yellow.
I understand the text, but I don't understand what you're communicating to me with it, and I don't want to misunderstand. I'm sorry.
I guess the point that I was trying to make is that NTs want a world where everybody shares self evident truths with each other so that they don't feel alone in their pain. But, by definition, if everybody felt empathy for everyone, then everybody on earth would be as miserable as the most miserable person on earth that day. So clearly there's an empathy cutoff: I'm not actually that concerned that my cousin's hairdresser's neighbour's brother's lawnmowerman's sister lost her job because she signed in at 930 but didn't actually sign in till 933- but I say, "ugh, that's so shit" and immediately forget as soon as the conversation ends. I posit to you that humans, as a species are not capable of perfect empathy, otherwise everybody on earth would be equally as miserable because misery would be perfectly conserved. There's an efficiency loss of empathy inversely proportional to how much you care about the afflicted individual. If your best friend is 100% sad: you feel 80% sad; their postman's florist's plumber feels 0.01% sad. This conservation of misery does not apply the other way. You can meet a complete stranger and share in their good news and bring each other to the highest highs. This is how most relationships start, with constructive interference of two people feeling good about themselves. But when you're feeling down, you can never depend on another person to understand you or feel your pain, because, by definition, they have a dilution factor. So you're always isolated when you're sad, but you can share happiness with another person.
Now imagine all of this, but also sometimes women have hormones which make them angry for no good reason. So they wake up angry and need to reverse engineer a reason for their anger and call you up at work to blast you: "why didn't you leave the curtains open for the dog to look out the window!?". Now imagine that once they get pregnant. Then you'll find out what a clown world really is. Once they miss a cheap secondhand BBQ on Facebook marketplace and you hear them sobbing in the shower, "I hate myself". How are you supposed to emphasise with that? That's clearly just crazy hormones right? What about six years prior when she was due for her period and refused to eat her favourite meal I prepared for her in bed because I gave her the wrong fork? What's the empathetic reaction there? Empathy is a scam which benefits women.
I don't really know what to say for this because I feel like this is a conclusion based on incorrect logic. I'm happy to discuss this further in DM if it interests you at all but I really don't feel comfortable elaborating in a group setting even though they're not really things I feel any kind of way about everyone knowing. Anxiety is strange. The fork thing sounds more like something I'd do as someone with autism (although I'd just go change the fork myself.) Or more of an OCD thing. Or even a mood disorder, some of which are specific to menstruation. It's not really an acceptable way to treat you, regardless. Given the way that women are treated/viewed/considered in the world, empathy is not really the word that comes to mind. I can understand from how you've described your situation how you would come to that conclusion, though.
I don't know if I would consider this a completely NT perspective. I only have my own and I am not NT. I tend to have the opposite experience with them, where they find any darkness really uncomfortable to talk about. They prefer it to be superficial and I always fail them in that way because it feels so dishonest and indifferent to be like "yeah, sucks." Most people I know who want to be connected to others, are not necessarily looking to share pain or happiness but to be understood. It is hard to be understood and hard to feel understood and hard to truly understand others. Sometimes people do take on too much of the horrors of the world, and it is very distressing. People have to make themselves care less for their own sanity and that's understandable. Autistic people vary but a lot of us have very deep emotions and feelings of empathy but express them in ways that are considered inappropriate. Of course, I have to factor in that some of this is projection based on my own experiences. For example, I saw what you said, I related it to my own experiences of being criticized while doing my best to go back and forth in what was communicated to me, and I knew how I felt about it. So it motivated me to comment because although it's not an obvious display of empathy, I thought if it helped you to know, it might make your life easier. I don't know you. I just knew it hurt me and I cared for someone else to not have to feel like that. Maybe you felt absolutely nothing writing it. I've found empathy for and from strangers in very unexpected situations, whom I never saw again. It's not just care and vulnerability that make up components of empathy. It's not just how close you are or aren't. Sometimes it's strangers with a shared experience that heals a little bit from being understood. The shared experiences can even be from opposing sides of the experience. Sadness is absolutely shared in that way. It's good when it's understood and damaging when it isn't. So for me sometimes being sad alone is a choice that I make, because I know I won't be understood. In the same way, I sometimes don't share my happiness because the significance of it won't be understood by most, but if I can understand the significance of something to someone else, I can genuinely share in their happiness and sadness. Again, I can only really speak from my lived experiences and perspective, and the things I've had to learn to exist as a ND person in a NT world.
Hmm... Have you tried laughing maniacally and inviting him to plot world domination with you? It's even better if you volunteer to be the one who handles the social stuff, while he gets to make laws and do other non social parts of the job. Sorry. Couldn't resist. Just be aware that many of us struggle with relationships and, even if everything works out, he'll probably need a lot of alone time.
>Sorry. Couldn't resist. How dare you give me hope just to crush it so mercilessly. You'll be on my naughty list when I'll achieve world domination
We can't let the normies find out what we're planning! XD
It's more what you expect and what you think that relationship means with that individual; before bringing them 'into the fold'. If you are fine being in a relationship where that 'relationship' maybe exists 5/365 (number varies) days a year, that's probably what it's like. Maybe you can squeeze and stretch a couple more days or whatever, but would be hard-pressed to expect it to go beyond that.
What I would want. Don’t be too clingy. Don’t expect me to stay on the phone with you all day. Be okay with my flattened affect.
So, you've decided to date a Terminator...
Hmm. Interesting. I was talking to my therapist about this a bit yesterday. I explained it kinda fucked up, but here goes. I am a “whole person” without having consistent connection and community. Other people are “whole persons” but they desire connection and community. I show I care and my love via acts of service (more often, I’d rather do the thing and get it out the way and make life easier on us both). I will listen to your emotional ramblings with patience and offer comfort and silence, in addition to solutions. I don’t become emotionally affected by your problems, more I become emotionall affected because you are..and I’d like to end your suffering.. a long with mine, in dealing with whatever the situation may be. Now, this is where my relationships find trouble… they don’t view me as “whole” within the relationship because I don’t deeply fulfill that emotional well for connection they have. So then, I become demonized even though I’m legitimately putting forth as much energy as I’m able to. So it seems both parties end up equally dissatisfied.
Take the top comments with some reserve. SPD is not black and white, it's a spectrum, not everyone would be like those guys described
Honestly, dating I would simply mask it all and pretend to be what I think is the person you are looking for. The masking (pretending to be something other than what I am) is tiring, so you eventually see it here and there. But the dating would be very normal - it's just that I would be drained during and after our date (but you'd hopefully never see that). If I were to fall in love with you, well then you would be my sole reason to exist. My whole world would change with you now at the center. As it is, being single atm, life is pointless, empty and long. All in all, the only thing that marks me different as a schizoid, is being around others (myself and you included, but less so) is draining and I kinda dislike it. All social events are a required effort (like going to a job interview). I try to be someone else even once my partner has seen beyond the masks at that blackhole, but it makes me miserable.
Expect the following: A lot of quiet. We don’t converse much. A lot of space. We tend to stick to solitary hobbies. A lot of decision making. We tend to not have an opinion on anything we don’t find terribly important. Staying home most nights. We tend to prefer the safety of our most familiar environment. Not much emotional support. We can mask but most of us do not enjoy it. It’s draining. The upside is most of us are extremely low maintenance. We’ve learned to be self sufficient so we won’t have to lean on you for much, if anything really. If you’re also low maintenance then I don’t personally predict any issues. But if you’re not then it might be the worst relationship you’ll ever experience. The question you need to ask yourself is, are you ok with a relationship that doesn’t feel very deep with someone who doesn’t need you, even though they may want you?
Best case scenario is you live parallel lives. You do your thing, and just let him be. You can do things together, but always on his terms.
Be persistent but noncommital, be playful and don't treat things too seriously. If i sense that someone likes me and their emotional well-being is dependent on how i respond to them, i shut down and lose interest. I've spent my whole life feeling responsible for other's emotions and now i'm on the other side of the spectrum. I'm too burnt out to care. So make advances, don't take it personally if he shuts you down. Respect his need for space. If your mental health depends on whether he likes you back or not then it's not a relationship for you to be in unless you enjoy suffering.
Why do you want to torture this poor man? What did he ever do to you?
Not possible. One does not "date" a schizoid. And if a schizoid were to date you then it'd be a true miracle love story.
well, if you were to ask any of my exes (from before i realized something was wrong- i don’t date anymore), they would say barely and painfully. conversation when im not buzzed is like pulling teeth. not very reactive. sluggish but robotic in the way a depressed person is. the more comfortable i get, the less fun i become basically. it’s likely that the guy you know and the guy he is are pretty different.
Your interest in this person hopefully is unconditional. Accept them for whoever they are, whenever, without expectations. It will be difficult for them to understand how you feel about them. Patience is key, I guess. Give them all the space and autonomy they need, no pressure or social conformity. The moments of "togetherness" will be scarce, but your unconditional patience will make or break it.. And take care of yourself.