There's two groups of Johnlock shippers: regular Johnlock shippers and TJLC. They overlap a lot, but the main difference is that TJLC is a subgroup of Johnlock shippers who believe the pairing will be canon.
As for why people ship them - there is *a lot* of romantic subtext used in BBC Sherlock around John and Sherlock's relationship, and people pick up on it.
Things like Sherlock mentioning multiple times that "women aren't his area" while never doing the same when people assume he likes men. Or nearly everyone who knew Sherlock prior to the first episode (Mrs. Hudson, Mycroft, Angelo from the restaurant) all thinking he's gay.
Things like knowing Sherlock watches porn (from Magnussen's scan) but also knowing from A Scandal in Belgravia that he doesn't look at naked women online.
Things that indicate jealousy over the other's potential romantic partners, like John counting Irene's texts to Sherlock, or Sherlock being petty around John's girlfriends ("who was after the boring teacher?"), or Sherlock leaving John's wedding early.
Things like Irene Adler implying that John is attracted to Sherlock, despite John typically being attracted to women ("Somebody loves you. If I had to punch that face you I'd avoid your nose and teeth too." followed by uncomfortable laughter from John / "I am not gay!" "Well, I am. Look at us both." followed by dead silence from John.)
Things like John having something he never got to say after Sherlock "died", or Sherlock attempting to confess something before getting on the plane at the end of season 3.
Things like John's and Mary's love for each other repeatedly compared to John and Sherlock's love for each other: John calling his engagement to Mary "moving on" from Sherlock. John saying that Mary and Sherlock are the "two people that [he] loves and cares about the most in the world". Mary telling Sherlock that "neither of [them] were there first". Sherlock calling himself and Mary "the two people who love [John] the most in the world". Mary referring to John as "the man we both love" in her message to Sherlock.
This is just some of the stuff off the top of my head. There's a ton of symbolism, mirrors, and romantic tropes being used on the show. If you've got some time to spare I'd recommend watching [TJLC Explained](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAuSka6bMks&list=PL-TcTV244YQvXdjTdUhLf9_EhhmdaCEiE), it goes over all of it, and if you like narrative and thematic analysis it's an utter joy to watch (I'm quite fond of the episode that [compares the romantic narrative in BBC Sherlock to the one in The Princess Bride](https://youtu.be/PbLkSc8xXdM?t=24m11s).) It's a really interesting way to interpret the show, I think, even if it turns out not to happen in canon.
Definitely. There's a reason it's called The Johnlock *Conspiracy*. They live up to their name. I would love Johnlock to become canon and I do think some of the tropes used in the show hint at a romantic reading, but the utter certainty of some of the TJLC people is off-putting even to me. I don't agree with all of it but I still think it's a fascinating interpretation of the show.
It is quite a complex question with many, interwoven answers, I believe...
The first, more socially-oriented, answer would be that there is an appetite, a need even let's be honest, for more diverse characters in all types of fiction. More LGBTQ+ characters, more POC characters, more female characters... Representation (and normalisation) of groups of people who, put together, stand for more than 2/3 of humankind is desperately needed. So the idea of a gay couple being at the centre of a highly successful, critically acclaimed, primetime TV show is a very seductive one to quite a few fans, especially in the LGBTQ+ community.
The second would be that the show itelf addresses that possibility. On quite a few occasions, John and Sherlock have been believed to be gay. Which is not odd at all : after all, they are two men who for a long time lived, worked and ate together, and who very obviously love each other. For supporting characters who do not consider homosexuality to be an abomination but just another walk of life, the conclusion that John and Sherlock might be gay is a completely reasonable (and charmingly cavalier) one ! ;)
In all honesty, I, for one, have always felt that the in-universe allusions to Holmes and Watson being a couple (as well as their reactions to the hypothesis) were self-referential jokes by Moffat and Gatiss : Queer theorists have always regarded Arthur Conan Doyle's Sherlock and Watson as crypto-gay while Holmesian "purists" tend to consider this to be a canon-defying overinterpretation... So the idea of characters within the universe "forcing" the gay label onto an indifferent Sherlock and a bewildered Watson must be quite funny to ACD fanatics like Moffat and Gatiss. :D
The third reason is love. Sherlock and John do love each other. The show does not just suggest it; it states it. As clear as day. They. Love. Each. Other. Now, the only real question is : is it sexualised / romantic love or not ? Johnlock supporters will anwer with a resounding "yes"; others will say "no"; the rest will go "meh" :D
Many highly talented TJLC theorists will refer to a wide and complex array of visual / musical / narrative tropes used in the show as "romantic tropes" and, thereby, proofs that John and Sherlock are indeed "coded" as gay. I, conversely, would argue that what TJLC supporters name "romantic tropes" are actually "love tropes", shown in movies and TV shows alike to denote affection, care, tenderness, support, attachment, etc., regardless of the context being romance, familial connection or friendship. To call those tropes "romantic" when they, in practice, are not so specific is, in my opinion, to engage in a form of confirmation bias...
A prime example of this process would be Rebekah, a genuinely interesting, highly intelligent and talented TLJC theorist on youtube. Her videos are extremely detailed and truly remarkable as far as the show's explicit is concerned But whenever it comes to the implicit... She noticeably (perhaps subconsciously) re-labels notions to suit her purpose, namely to prove that TJLC is real. Thus "love tropes" become, in her taxonomy, "romantic love tropes" and, to give credence to this new labeling, she selects solely scenes from romantic movies / shows / pairings as comparisons. Of course, she could relatively easily find examples of the very same tropes being used in non-romantic contexts but... Confirmation bias ;)
The final, and perhaps the most subtly important, reason is selective exposure and time (lots of it :D).
We all tend to favour information that reinforces our preexisting views while avoiding contradictory information, so as to prevent the displeasure of cognitive dissonance. Therefore, most people with a TJLC sensibility will expose themselves to TJLC-related content while others will bypass it. This creates an "echo chamber" : people who already implicitly agree with one another repeating, validating and reinforcing one another's beliefs.
Over time (and with just 3 episodes every 2 years, there is a LOT of time ;) ), the whole thing slowly crystallises and "one possible interpretation" becomes "the best interpretation", then "the only interpretation" and, finally, "the right interpretation". And if the show's canon disagrees, then it is the canon that is wrong !
But that's just my opinion ;)
I really don't understand the shipping world. I get that people like to place two people together for their own pleasure but it's another thing if someone is actually debating whether or not two characters are in love. Despite Sherlock's analysis of it in SiB, I don't think romantic love can be proven by an outsider via a series of events.
It seems clear that the Gatiss and Moffat intend to portray their friendship as something closer than a typical friendship. But I also think they've shown plenty of evidence that Sherlock and John aren't attracted to each other.
>I get that people like to place two people together for their own pleasure but it's another thing if someone is actually debating whether or not two characters are in love.
It's no different than hoping Moriarty returns because you like the character. And debating whether or not he'll return, and putting together clues. It's the same thing as trying to prove a ship will become canon because you're a fan of it.
> It's no different than hoping Moriarty returns because you like the character. And debating whether or not he'll return, and putting together clues. It's the same thing as trying to prove a ship will become canon because you're a fan of it.
Hoping Moriarty returns because of your own pleasure is not the same thing. I just said I understand people wanting something to happen because of their own desires but to actually debate whether or not someone is attracted to someone else based off a few actions of a character is ridiculous.
It's also been set in stone that Moriarty is dead. I don't understand why that would be debated either. If they were to pull a soap opera move by bringing him back from the dead, I'd be thoroughly disappointed.
I don't ship it, but the people sending death threats to Amanda were a small but vocal minority of idiots and 99.9% of fans condemned their behaviour. In so many shows, people fail to see the difference between actors and characters. Soap opera actors often get shouted at in the streets by people in fact. As I said, I don't ship it but it isn't fair on those that do to lump them together with a few morons that would exist whatever they were a fan of.
Yeah I completely agree and I'm not sure if I explained clearly, but my message was for the hardest of hardcore shippers.
It sucks that people who do what they love, are given the opportunity to portray historic characters but instead have to wade through that toxic .1% of that fandom that gives us a bad name.
Shipping people and believing they're canon (when they're obviously not) are two wholly separate things. The answer to why people ship certain characters is obviously, "Because they want to," or, "Why not?" For the answer to the canon question, it's probably best to look to Tumblr. Despite your assertion there are, in fact, tons of explanations to be found, specious though most of them tend to be.
I mean, arguably, the second biggest ship in the Sherlock fandom is Mycroft and Lestrade -- two characters that have an almost non-existent relationship on-screen. Why ship *them*? Because people want to. And why not?
1.) Lack of strong female characters. Name one character on this show that is driven by her own interests and not because of a man. There is not even one episode of this show that passes the Bechdel test.
2.) In a hyper-masculine society, affection between two men is seen as "gay" which means it is "unmanly." Affection shown onscreen, where real life is greatly exaggerated, is seen as gay.
3.) the fetishization of homosexual love as a taboo and "forbidden love." Heterosexual love is accepted and predictable. Secret, forbidden love is more erotic. Being secretly gay is just the new forbidden love in fiction these days.
4.) There is a lack of homosexual representation in media and people want representation. However, the problem isn't going to be solved by delusional children that invested way, way too much of their emotions in a fictional universe, that harass the actors, creators, and other fans, demanding "representation." At that point your demands are as fake as the houses at Leinster Gardens. I'm looking at you TJLC's.
The show makes more literal and aesthetic sense if you read them as pining for each other. Once you get into the weeds, you have to start bending over backwards to argue that their relationship seems platonic.
To get you started:
* wtf was John's reaction to Janine if not romantic jealousy?
* wtf is the bromance explanation of the bluelit scene in ASiB?
* why tf does sexuality get at least a one mention *every episode* ? Seriously. Count. And, no, they're not usually jokes.
You might want to watch the dozens of videos on YouTube under the general topic of "TJLC Explained" by Rebekah. Although all were made to support "Johnlock" and cover virtually every argument in its favor, you can also watch them for the interesting examination they provide of symbolism in the show, use of music, camera angles, props, costuming and so many other things to plant subliminal ideas in viewers' minds. They are well worth watching just as a study of how the showrunners approach their art.
seems like the leader of a cult to me, lol
most of her episodes are good to great, but some are so out of this world and crazy that i think she should seek help or something, if things don't go her way on sunday she'll send over her legion of crazies to harass the creators like crazy, crying queerbait every other post.
Yeah, she has some things right, but she can be delusional as well. The more fanatical Johnlockers are very much like members of a religious cult. It is scary and I do wonder how they will cope if it doesnt happen
I came across one of her videos when searching for stuff about the movie, "The Private Life of Sherlock Holmes," & in the bit that I watched, she intimated that John and Mary's baby wasn't real (?) and that Irene and Sherlock didn't have any sort of feelings for each other. It was weird.
> Irene and Sherlock didn't have any sort of feelings for each other.
Yeah, Irene almost certainly had feelings for him, annoying as it is. To argue otherwise is kind of spiraling off into fanfiction. But you can't blame a girl for trying. As aesthetically mindblowing as it is, it's kind of ridiculous and insulting to suggest that would happen.
But what evidence is there that Sherlock had romantic feelings for her? He spent 90% of the episode avoiding her and outright rebuking her advances. She shows up in his bed and offers to bang him (twice) and he's like, "John, get over here, we have a case!!"
The evidence that he has feelings for her are
* Molly, John, and Mycroft think he does/might
* He saves her
Way more people way more consistently perceive that John and Sherlock are together, and Sherlock saves John on the reg. If those things are sufficient to make it obvious that he loves her (they're not), then you have to conclude that Sherlock and John love each other more.
I find it difficult to engage with people who are so invested in and fragile about their non-canon ship that they feel the need to minimize all other relationships that the characters have. John and Mary, Irene and Sherlock being examples.
Sherlock, as an approximation of a complex human being, is perfectly capable of loving John and still having some manner of non-platonic feelings towards Irene. TLD cemented this.
Um, excuse me, I'm fragile?
a) I'm just mildly offering textual support, while you've offered none.
b) you're the one getting defensive and bitchy on a damn fan forum. Go outside.
You didn't start with one of the better ones. Yeah, Rebekah got into the "faked pregnancy" thing for a while there. I recommend you check out the one about music. It's instructive (how the show uses musical themes for the key characters, and how they are blended to underscore (no pun intended) possible subtexts. Her breakdown of some pop songs used in, for example, the restaurant reunion and the "stag do" are entertaining.
I watched a couple videos of hers recently. The one about Mycoft and Moriarty was pretty intriguing. But the other was from just a couple days ago & she seems to be in panic mode. I almost worry for her health if there is no "kiss" on Sunday.
John and Sherlock having romantic feelings for each other is, to me anyway, pretty obvious. It's been obvious from the first episode [and every few years it kind of consumes me]. I just can't imagine that anyone who has missed this (not remotely subtle) aspect of the show is going to suddenly have an epiphany by engaging with some of the weirdness that arises from the rabidly TJLC.
I hear you :) On a tangent, people bring all kind of different needs to whatever art form they are attracted to. It's part of the dialog that makes art live. I'm not about to criticize anyonie for wanting to interpret this show in a way that makes them happy. I object only to the negativity differing perspectives can generate. Laissez-faire, y'all.
Rebekkah also did one claiming John is bi-sexual. One of her so called proofs was that he was in the army. Huh????.Lots of straight people are in the army. I worry about her too if it doesnt happen.
I recommend her videos not so much for the TJLC angle, but for the insights she pulls from many knowledgeable sources about the show's style, set design, props, special effects, lighting and whatnot. Semiotics, the filmmaker's art and so on. It's fun to consider the show from all these angles as well as the pure story being told.
Honestly I just love there dynamic and really enjoy watching them together. I ship them yes but I honestly don't mind that it's not cannon. I love marry and don't mind her and John's relationship.
I just personally couldn't watch the wedding episode without going, oh sherlock is in love with John.
Also I just love sherlock because I am on the autism spectrum and just relate him alot.
To be fair I really don't mind if you think he is ace and or aro. You could honestly say that sherlock is straight and I wouldn't argue, because that's YOUR interpretation and your entitled to read the show however You want. And so am I.
There's two groups of Johnlock shippers: regular Johnlock shippers and TJLC. They overlap a lot, but the main difference is that TJLC is a subgroup of Johnlock shippers who believe the pairing will be canon. As for why people ship them - there is *a lot* of romantic subtext used in BBC Sherlock around John and Sherlock's relationship, and people pick up on it. Things like Sherlock mentioning multiple times that "women aren't his area" while never doing the same when people assume he likes men. Or nearly everyone who knew Sherlock prior to the first episode (Mrs. Hudson, Mycroft, Angelo from the restaurant) all thinking he's gay. Things like knowing Sherlock watches porn (from Magnussen's scan) but also knowing from A Scandal in Belgravia that he doesn't look at naked women online. Things that indicate jealousy over the other's potential romantic partners, like John counting Irene's texts to Sherlock, or Sherlock being petty around John's girlfriends ("who was after the boring teacher?"), or Sherlock leaving John's wedding early. Things like Irene Adler implying that John is attracted to Sherlock, despite John typically being attracted to women ("Somebody loves you. If I had to punch that face you I'd avoid your nose and teeth too." followed by uncomfortable laughter from John / "I am not gay!" "Well, I am. Look at us both." followed by dead silence from John.) Things like John having something he never got to say after Sherlock "died", or Sherlock attempting to confess something before getting on the plane at the end of season 3. Things like John's and Mary's love for each other repeatedly compared to John and Sherlock's love for each other: John calling his engagement to Mary "moving on" from Sherlock. John saying that Mary and Sherlock are the "two people that [he] loves and cares about the most in the world". Mary telling Sherlock that "neither of [them] were there first". Sherlock calling himself and Mary "the two people who love [John] the most in the world". Mary referring to John as "the man we both love" in her message to Sherlock. This is just some of the stuff off the top of my head. There's a ton of symbolism, mirrors, and romantic tropes being used on the show. If you've got some time to spare I'd recommend watching [TJLC Explained](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tAuSka6bMks&list=PL-TcTV244YQvXdjTdUhLf9_EhhmdaCEiE), it goes over all of it, and if you like narrative and thematic analysis it's an utter joy to watch (I'm quite fond of the episode that [compares the romantic narrative in BBC Sherlock to the one in The Princess Bride](https://youtu.be/PbLkSc8xXdM?t=24m11s).) It's a really interesting way to interpret the show, I think, even if it turns out not to happen in canon.
What does TJLC mean?
The Johnlock Conspiracy.
I've watched some of TJLC and I just don't agree with any of it. A lot of is fans reaching and seeing what they want to see.
Definitely. There's a reason it's called The Johnlock *Conspiracy*. They live up to their name. I would love Johnlock to become canon and I do think some of the tropes used in the show hint at a romantic reading, but the utter certainty of some of the TJLC people is off-putting even to me. I don't agree with all of it but I still think it's a fascinating interpretation of the show.
It is quite a complex question with many, interwoven answers, I believe... The first, more socially-oriented, answer would be that there is an appetite, a need even let's be honest, for more diverse characters in all types of fiction. More LGBTQ+ characters, more POC characters, more female characters... Representation (and normalisation) of groups of people who, put together, stand for more than 2/3 of humankind is desperately needed. So the idea of a gay couple being at the centre of a highly successful, critically acclaimed, primetime TV show is a very seductive one to quite a few fans, especially in the LGBTQ+ community. The second would be that the show itelf addresses that possibility. On quite a few occasions, John and Sherlock have been believed to be gay. Which is not odd at all : after all, they are two men who for a long time lived, worked and ate together, and who very obviously love each other. For supporting characters who do not consider homosexuality to be an abomination but just another walk of life, the conclusion that John and Sherlock might be gay is a completely reasonable (and charmingly cavalier) one ! ;) In all honesty, I, for one, have always felt that the in-universe allusions to Holmes and Watson being a couple (as well as their reactions to the hypothesis) were self-referential jokes by Moffat and Gatiss : Queer theorists have always regarded Arthur Conan Doyle's Sherlock and Watson as crypto-gay while Holmesian "purists" tend to consider this to be a canon-defying overinterpretation... So the idea of characters within the universe "forcing" the gay label onto an indifferent Sherlock and a bewildered Watson must be quite funny to ACD fanatics like Moffat and Gatiss. :D The third reason is love. Sherlock and John do love each other. The show does not just suggest it; it states it. As clear as day. They. Love. Each. Other. Now, the only real question is : is it sexualised / romantic love or not ? Johnlock supporters will anwer with a resounding "yes"; others will say "no"; the rest will go "meh" :D Many highly talented TJLC theorists will refer to a wide and complex array of visual / musical / narrative tropes used in the show as "romantic tropes" and, thereby, proofs that John and Sherlock are indeed "coded" as gay. I, conversely, would argue that what TJLC supporters name "romantic tropes" are actually "love tropes", shown in movies and TV shows alike to denote affection, care, tenderness, support, attachment, etc., regardless of the context being romance, familial connection or friendship. To call those tropes "romantic" when they, in practice, are not so specific is, in my opinion, to engage in a form of confirmation bias... A prime example of this process would be Rebekah, a genuinely interesting, highly intelligent and talented TLJC theorist on youtube. Her videos are extremely detailed and truly remarkable as far as the show's explicit is concerned But whenever it comes to the implicit... She noticeably (perhaps subconsciously) re-labels notions to suit her purpose, namely to prove that TJLC is real. Thus "love tropes" become, in her taxonomy, "romantic love tropes" and, to give credence to this new labeling, she selects solely scenes from romantic movies / shows / pairings as comparisons. Of course, she could relatively easily find examples of the very same tropes being used in non-romantic contexts but... Confirmation bias ;) The final, and perhaps the most subtly important, reason is selective exposure and time (lots of it :D). We all tend to favour information that reinforces our preexisting views while avoiding contradictory information, so as to prevent the displeasure of cognitive dissonance. Therefore, most people with a TJLC sensibility will expose themselves to TJLC-related content while others will bypass it. This creates an "echo chamber" : people who already implicitly agree with one another repeating, validating and reinforcing one another's beliefs. Over time (and with just 3 episodes every 2 years, there is a LOT of time ;) ), the whole thing slowly crystallises and "one possible interpretation" becomes "the best interpretation", then "the only interpretation" and, finally, "the right interpretation". And if the show's canon disagrees, then it is the canon that is wrong ! But that's just my opinion ;)
I really don't understand the shipping world. I get that people like to place two people together for their own pleasure but it's another thing if someone is actually debating whether or not two characters are in love. Despite Sherlock's analysis of it in SiB, I don't think romantic love can be proven by an outsider via a series of events. It seems clear that the Gatiss and Moffat intend to portray their friendship as something closer than a typical friendship. But I also think they've shown plenty of evidence that Sherlock and John aren't attracted to each other.
>I get that people like to place two people together for their own pleasure but it's another thing if someone is actually debating whether or not two characters are in love. It's no different than hoping Moriarty returns because you like the character. And debating whether or not he'll return, and putting together clues. It's the same thing as trying to prove a ship will become canon because you're a fan of it.
> It's no different than hoping Moriarty returns because you like the character. And debating whether or not he'll return, and putting together clues. It's the same thing as trying to prove a ship will become canon because you're a fan of it. Hoping Moriarty returns because of your own pleasure is not the same thing. I just said I understand people wanting something to happen because of their own desires but to actually debate whether or not someone is attracted to someone else based off a few actions of a character is ridiculous. It's also been set in stone that Moriarty is dead. I don't understand why that would be debated either. If they were to pull a soap opera move by bringing him back from the dead, I'd be thoroughly disappointed.
[удалено]
I don't ship it, but the people sending death threats to Amanda were a small but vocal minority of idiots and 99.9% of fans condemned their behaviour. In so many shows, people fail to see the difference between actors and characters. Soap opera actors often get shouted at in the streets by people in fact. As I said, I don't ship it but it isn't fair on those that do to lump them together with a few morons that would exist whatever they were a fan of.
Yeah I completely agree and I'm not sure if I explained clearly, but my message was for the hardest of hardcore shippers. It sucks that people who do what they love, are given the opportunity to portray historic characters but instead have to wade through that toxic .1% of that fandom that gives us a bad name.
Shipping people and believing they're canon (when they're obviously not) are two wholly separate things. The answer to why people ship certain characters is obviously, "Because they want to," or, "Why not?" For the answer to the canon question, it's probably best to look to Tumblr. Despite your assertion there are, in fact, tons of explanations to be found, specious though most of them tend to be. I mean, arguably, the second biggest ship in the Sherlock fandom is Mycroft and Lestrade -- two characters that have an almost non-existent relationship on-screen. Why ship *them*? Because people want to. And why not?
1.) Lack of strong female characters. Name one character on this show that is driven by her own interests and not because of a man. There is not even one episode of this show that passes the Bechdel test. 2.) In a hyper-masculine society, affection between two men is seen as "gay" which means it is "unmanly." Affection shown onscreen, where real life is greatly exaggerated, is seen as gay. 3.) the fetishization of homosexual love as a taboo and "forbidden love." Heterosexual love is accepted and predictable. Secret, forbidden love is more erotic. Being secretly gay is just the new forbidden love in fiction these days. 4.) There is a lack of homosexual representation in media and people want representation. However, the problem isn't going to be solved by delusional children that invested way, way too much of their emotions in a fictional universe, that harass the actors, creators, and other fans, demanding "representation." At that point your demands are as fake as the houses at Leinster Gardens. I'm looking at you TJLC's.
The show makes more literal and aesthetic sense if you read them as pining for each other. Once you get into the weeds, you have to start bending over backwards to argue that their relationship seems platonic. To get you started: * wtf was John's reaction to Janine if not romantic jealousy? * wtf is the bromance explanation of the bluelit scene in ASiB? * why tf does sexuality get at least a one mention *every episode* ? Seriously. Count. And, no, they're not usually jokes.
I can't wait until the day that "ship" stops being used.
Wishful thinking.
You might want to watch the dozens of videos on YouTube under the general topic of "TJLC Explained" by Rebekah. Although all were made to support "Johnlock" and cover virtually every argument in its favor, you can also watch them for the interesting examination they provide of symbolism in the show, use of music, camera angles, props, costuming and so many other things to plant subliminal ideas in viewers' minds. They are well worth watching just as a study of how the showrunners approach their art.
seems like the leader of a cult to me, lol most of her episodes are good to great, but some are so out of this world and crazy that i think she should seek help or something, if things don't go her way on sunday she'll send over her legion of crazies to harass the creators like crazy, crying queerbait every other post.
Yeah, she has some things right, but she can be delusional as well. The more fanatical Johnlockers are very much like members of a religious cult. It is scary and I do wonder how they will cope if it doesnt happen
I came across one of her videos when searching for stuff about the movie, "The Private Life of Sherlock Holmes," & in the bit that I watched, she intimated that John and Mary's baby wasn't real (?) and that Irene and Sherlock didn't have any sort of feelings for each other. It was weird.
> Irene and Sherlock didn't have any sort of feelings for each other. Yeah, Irene almost certainly had feelings for him, annoying as it is. To argue otherwise is kind of spiraling off into fanfiction. But you can't blame a girl for trying. As aesthetically mindblowing as it is, it's kind of ridiculous and insulting to suggest that would happen. But what evidence is there that Sherlock had romantic feelings for her? He spent 90% of the episode avoiding her and outright rebuking her advances. She shows up in his bed and offers to bang him (twice) and he's like, "John, get over here, we have a case!!" The evidence that he has feelings for her are * Molly, John, and Mycroft think he does/might * He saves her Way more people way more consistently perceive that John and Sherlock are together, and Sherlock saves John on the reg. If those things are sufficient to make it obvious that he loves her (they're not), then you have to conclude that Sherlock and John love each other more.
I find it difficult to engage with people who are so invested in and fragile about their non-canon ship that they feel the need to minimize all other relationships that the characters have. John and Mary, Irene and Sherlock being examples. Sherlock, as an approximation of a complex human being, is perfectly capable of loving John and still having some manner of non-platonic feelings towards Irene. TLD cemented this.
Um, excuse me, I'm fragile? a) I'm just mildly offering textual support, while you've offered none. b) you're the one getting defensive and bitchy on a damn fan forum. Go outside.
You didn't start with one of the better ones. Yeah, Rebekah got into the "faked pregnancy" thing for a while there. I recommend you check out the one about music. It's instructive (how the show uses musical themes for the key characters, and how they are blended to underscore (no pun intended) possible subtexts. Her breakdown of some pop songs used in, for example, the restaurant reunion and the "stag do" are entertaining.
I watched a couple videos of hers recently. The one about Mycoft and Moriarty was pretty intriguing. But the other was from just a couple days ago & she seems to be in panic mode. I almost worry for her health if there is no "kiss" on Sunday.
John and Sherlock having romantic feelings for each other is, to me anyway, pretty obvious. It's been obvious from the first episode [and every few years it kind of consumes me]. I just can't imagine that anyone who has missed this (not remotely subtle) aspect of the show is going to suddenly have an epiphany by engaging with some of the weirdness that arises from the rabidly TJLC.
I hear you :) On a tangent, people bring all kind of different needs to whatever art form they are attracted to. It's part of the dialog that makes art live. I'm not about to criticize anyonie for wanting to interpret this show in a way that makes them happy. I object only to the negativity differing perspectives can generate. Laissez-faire, y'all.
What evidence is there that Sherlock was interested in Irene?
Rebekkah also did one claiming John is bi-sexual. One of her so called proofs was that he was in the army. Huh????.Lots of straight people are in the army. I worry about her too if it doesnt happen.
Of all the things to suggest John's potential sexuality, that is what they picked? Wow.
I recommend her videos not so much for the TJLC angle, but for the insights she pulls from many knowledgeable sources about the show's style, set design, props, special effects, lighting and whatnot. Semiotics, the filmmaker's art and so on. It's fun to consider the show from all these angles as well as the pure story being told.
They have been in my recommended section every so often, I think I will watch them now and see!
I recommend you start with the one about the original score and other music. I forget the name, but it will be obvious.
Honestly I just love there dynamic and really enjoy watching them together. I ship them yes but I honestly don't mind that it's not cannon. I love marry and don't mind her and John's relationship. I just personally couldn't watch the wedding episode without going, oh sherlock is in love with John. Also I just love sherlock because I am on the autism spectrum and just relate him alot. To be fair I really don't mind if you think he is ace and or aro. You could honestly say that sherlock is straight and I wouldn't argue, because that's YOUR interpretation and your entitled to read the show however You want. And so am I.
If you already know people on Tumblr ship them are can you not know why. Just go to any tjlc blog.