If millennials are truly able to transfer our consciousness to machines, or work out how to reduce aging, we may very well be the first immortals, and in such, we will be the fathers of the immortal age.
Given our current laws of physics... sure. I would say there are no guarantees that, given enough time and development, an intelligent species could never solve the issue of the heat death of the universe though.
>I would say there are no guarantees that, given enough time and development, an intelligent species could never solve the issue of the heat death of the universe though.
We're too insignificant to change the universe at such a scale. The universe is huge. So huge no human can properly comprehend how large it is compared to us, and that's just the known universe. I can confidently state that no tech could stop the heat death if the universe, based on our current knowledge of reality. There is no way humans could ever build tech capable or affecting the entirety of reality. This isn't a sci-fi show.
I'd argue the more reasonable hope is thay we discover factds about how reality works that could enable us to escape that fate, or we learn that our prior theories were flawed.
Ifc it's a pointless thing to worry about, why worry about what will happen 1.7Ă10106 years in the future when we're staring down potential extinction in the next century?
That's a very narrow mindset considering what we don't know. A good example would be trying to explain the concept of the internet to a caveman. There's just no way they could ever comprehend the technology. I'm not at all saying that its possible, I'm saying that you really can't say that it isn't possible. Almost everything you work with in modern society was "impossible" at a certain point in time and in relation to quantum physics, we are mere infants in our understanding.
To be fair, It's extremely unlikely that our understanding of the known universe now is further from the truth than a caveman understanding was from what we know today.
It's also unwise to try and assume science will solve a problem. Science isn't magic, it's not like you hand scientists a budget and time and eventually they make what we need. We are bound by the laws of reality, Science is just making sense of what already is. It's especially dangerous today, as many are foolishly assuming future scientific discoveries will solve global warming, as though scientists can Mavic away trillions of tons of CO2 emissions.
Create a simulation where time is 100x slower go into simulation create another one with time 100x slower, keep doing it tell a second in the real world is like 20trillion to the trillionth power years
Compared to infinity 10 seconds, 1000 years, 1 quadrillion years, and 100 googol years are the same. And so to a being with an infinite lifespan all finite numbers have a very real end to them.
Consider the concept of infinity in mathematicsânot as a number, but as an idea that represents something without any bound or limit. Infinity is used to describe quantities that are not fixed and can grow indefinitely. Now, let's talk about large numbers, no matter how large they might beâlike a googol (10^100) or even a googolplex (10 to the power of a googol). These numbers, while extraordinarily large, are finite. They have a definite size and are countable, even if it's beyond our practical capability to do so.
To illustrate why even the largest conceivable number isn't 'almost infinite,' let's use an analogy. Imagine you're standing at the base of a mountain and you start walking upwards. No matter how high you climbâwhether it's a thousand feet or even close to the peakâyou're still on the mountain. You haven't suddenly turned into a bird flying infinitely high in the sky. In the same way, no matter how large a number gets, it's still finite, still grounded in the realm of countable quantities. It doesn't transform into infinity, which is more like the endless sky above, always extending, without a peak or limit.
Infinity isn't just a very large number; it's a concept that helps us understand ideas like limitless growth, endless sequences, or unbounded spaces. When mathematicians say 'infinity,' they're talking about something that fundamentally differs from any large number, no matter the size. Saying a number is 'so large it might as well be infinite' misunderstands what infinity represents. It's not about being large; it's about being unbounded, without end.
I know what infinity is you donât have to explain it to me you seem to miss what I am saying. When I say *might* I am saying we would live so long that it would feel boundless that it would feel limitless, it will feel endless because of how large that time is
Apparently, they are currently reworking the theory that everything is moving away from each other. And that some parts of the universe are expanding, and some parts are contracting at different rates. So, the great freeze may not be an accurate view of the future after all
Granted the Big Crunch would still mean the end of current life most likely, but in a way that still has hope for it to begin a new
Heat Death is a very depressing theory because at that point it is just over. Sure humanity will probably be gone insanely long before that, but it still would mean that there would come a time where there was nothing alive in existence ever again
Thatâs not happening any time soon. The extensions weâve received from tech has slowed and in some cases life expectancy has gotten worse.
My own thoughts are we may be able to move out consciousness to a machine but 3 things probably need to happen.
1) finalize a unified theory of physics. I suspect consciousness is tied to quantum interaction within biological life forms. Thatâs not me saying that actually I think itâs something Iâve read but it was convincing that biological cells may be needed for consciousness the fact weâve yet to create consciousness just confirms this gap
2) the limited resource problem. Even if we transfer our brains into another media we still must contend with other âtransported beingsâ aka the rest of humanity going there with us. The issues limited resources and specifically limited energy create makes me think we will continue to wage war on one another in our new âbodiesâ still leading to death.
3) the aging ego or personality problem. Currently itâs thought old people approach death as a matter of practicality but we have no evidence if the human ego or psyche could tolerate existing for centuries. Massive depression or psychosis could manifest and forced existence might feel torturous.
Think about how animals behave being kept alive, completely safe and provided all their physical needs. They pace, they develop neurosis, they pick at their skin. Itâs not clear humans could adapt to this. We are worried about people going crazy on a relatively short trip to mars.
Seems most likely. The only reason the space race happened was to measure dicks between Capitalist and Soviet power here on Earth. The only reason it happens now is for billionaire technocrats to measure their prestige here on Earth.
A lot of things happen in engineering just because they're cool. Habiting other planets is basically as cool as it gets. At some point we'll get there, if a global scale nuclear war doesn't destroy all human life first.
I think a complete collapse of bio diversity could also do a number. I wonder how hot and acidic the oceans have to get before the phyto plankton that make most of our oxygen die off. We are already seeing huge parts of the food chain go away in massive die offs.
Agreed. So funny people are rushing to colonize other planets instead of just protecting the one we have. Each species that dies off is has billions worth of genetic information, and that is for the people that don't just....actually care about the animals and protecting bio diversity.
As they say, a stitch in time saves 9. Or an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
It won't knock us out, knock us out, but it will knock down civilisation as we know it... We already survived one genetic bottle neck due to climate change, we'd do it again.
Out biggest 'skill' is adaptability (think living in scorching deserts _and_ freezing tundras), we'd just adapt to the new normal
Thereâs also evidence that they may have been decimated by a sudden shift in climate and we filled the gap before they could recover.
Or we introduced diseases that they had no immunity for which wiped out their already small populations. With the hybrid offspring they had with us having better resistance, hence persisting Neanderthal DNA in modern humans.
Or because of their small population they suffered from inbreeding depression and most of their offspring having detrimental birth defects with only the hybrid offspring they had with us reliably surviving.
Or it was simply a numbers game, we integrated with them and interbred at random but due to the sheer difference in population most of what was left was *Homo sapiens*.
By aliens who will discover the remains of human civilization. Ain't no way we're ever going to colonise other moons or planets by the time we destroy the atmosphere.
Well, that's dismal!
We aren't *destroying* the atmosphere. It will always be there.
We're just heating it and poisoning it beyond its ability to sustain human life.
Optimistic aren't we?
-Perhaps one day it'll be remembered by the AI that survives us as the inhospitable holy place where their short sighted creators evolved and perished after losing control over their final creation.
-Or maybe it'll be an irradiated wasteland populated by cronenberg mutants who can't remember a time it wasn't so.
-Or maybe it'll end up a CO2 choked junkyard devoid of all advanced life except small pockets of squid in the far reaches of the ocean predating on one another and the few forms of jellyfish still around
We need to start making better choices if we are to have any hope of our future selves realizing the statement that started this thread
Very much reminds me of The Gods Themselves by Asimov! I wonât spoil too much but in it lots of people donât believe humanity started anywhere and think they all convergently evolved lol.
And yet humans are solely adapted to Earth. Despite all the rhetoric about humans colonizing the stars, when it comes down it, us working in extreme environments like space and the bottom of the ocean is the exception, not the rule. When it comes to really getting off this planet and populating the stars, why carry the baggage of breathable air and potable water? If and when we become an interstellar civilization, it won't be humans doing the traveling, it'll be robots first followed in short order by organics custom-tailored to the environment they're destined for - never carry with you what you can build at your destination, and why build anything other than what you need?
*Humanity will outlive humans*
That's awfully optimistic. There is another theory for why we haven't yet found intelligent life in the universe, that being that any species intelligent enough to develop sophisticated technology will inevitably wipe itself out before it becomes a space-faring species.
With the current world events, I wouldn't necessarily say this is an unlikely outcome for us. In 2022, for obvious reasons, a precedent was set that in order for a country not to be invaded, they need nuclear deterrent. This will lead to more countries having nuclear weapons, which is more chances for accidental or intentional annihilation.
You donât exactly know that though. For all we know humanity as we know it transitioned to Earth. Everything we consider the origin of humanity is essentially just an educated guess/theory based on the little pieces of evidence we have
Maybe, maybe not.
I mean, as much as I'd love to live in a time where humanity has spread among the stars, right now it's just an hypotetical scenario, there are A LOT of things that could go wrong until we get the opportunity to do that
Probably not. It is almost an absolute certainty that we stop at Mars. The vastness of space is incomprehensible to virtually all humans, and the laws of physics cannot be broken. The vastness of our little solar system is such that it has taken a full generation for two spacecraft to escape it at extraordinarily high speeds.
We wonât have colonies on other planets. Maybe space stations at a push but thatâll only be for maintenance purposes in relation to material collection to bring back to earth and all of the actual collection will be done by robots.
One day, Earth will be forgotten
as will humanity.
If millennials are truly able to transfer our consciousness to machines, or work out how to reduce aging, we may very well be the first immortals, and in such, we will be the fathers of the immortal age.
My doubts remain, no matter how far we go away from Earth the eventual heat death of the universe will find us
Given our current laws of physics... sure. I would say there are no guarantees that, given enough time and development, an intelligent species could never solve the issue of the heat death of the universe though.
Check mate liberals đ
That is a big assumption that we are an intelligent species
Well, we are the most intelligent over every other species we have found. You shouldn't judge an entire species over the dumbest ones.
>I would say there are no guarantees that, given enough time and development, an intelligent species could never solve the issue of the heat death of the universe though. We're too insignificant to change the universe at such a scale. The universe is huge. So huge no human can properly comprehend how large it is compared to us, and that's just the known universe. I can confidently state that no tech could stop the heat death if the universe, based on our current knowledge of reality. There is no way humans could ever build tech capable or affecting the entirety of reality. This isn't a sci-fi show. I'd argue the more reasonable hope is thay we discover factds about how reality works that could enable us to escape that fate, or we learn that our prior theories were flawed. Ifc it's a pointless thing to worry about, why worry about what will happen 1.7Ă10106 years in the future when we're staring down potential extinction in the next century?
That's a very narrow mindset considering what we don't know. A good example would be trying to explain the concept of the internet to a caveman. There's just no way they could ever comprehend the technology. I'm not at all saying that its possible, I'm saying that you really can't say that it isn't possible. Almost everything you work with in modern society was "impossible" at a certain point in time and in relation to quantum physics, we are mere infants in our understanding.
To be fair, It's extremely unlikely that our understanding of the known universe now is further from the truth than a caveman understanding was from what we know today. It's also unwise to try and assume science will solve a problem. Science isn't magic, it's not like you hand scientists a budget and time and eventually they make what we need. We are bound by the laws of reality, Science is just making sense of what already is. It's especially dangerous today, as many are foolishly assuming future scientific discoveries will solve global warming, as though scientists can Mavic away trillions of tons of CO2 emissions.
Create a simulation where time is 100x slower go into simulation create another one with time 100x slower, keep doing it tell a second in the real world is like 20trillion to the trillionth power years
That still only results in a finite amount of time.
Yeah but the number is so huge it might as well be infinity
Compared to infinity 10 seconds, 1000 years, 1 quadrillion years, and 100 googol years are the same. And so to a being with an infinite lifespan all finite numbers have a very real end to them.
Yeah I get what your saying but you could keep doing this tell it *might* as well be infinite
Consider the concept of infinity in mathematicsânot as a number, but as an idea that represents something without any bound or limit. Infinity is used to describe quantities that are not fixed and can grow indefinitely. Now, let's talk about large numbers, no matter how large they might beâlike a googol (10^100) or even a googolplex (10 to the power of a googol). These numbers, while extraordinarily large, are finite. They have a definite size and are countable, even if it's beyond our practical capability to do so. To illustrate why even the largest conceivable number isn't 'almost infinite,' let's use an analogy. Imagine you're standing at the base of a mountain and you start walking upwards. No matter how high you climbâwhether it's a thousand feet or even close to the peakâyou're still on the mountain. You haven't suddenly turned into a bird flying infinitely high in the sky. In the same way, no matter how large a number gets, it's still finite, still grounded in the realm of countable quantities. It doesn't transform into infinity, which is more like the endless sky above, always extending, without a peak or limit. Infinity isn't just a very large number; it's a concept that helps us understand ideas like limitless growth, endless sequences, or unbounded spaces. When mathematicians say 'infinity,' they're talking about something that fundamentally differs from any large number, no matter the size. Saying a number is 'so large it might as well be infinite' misunderstands what infinity represents. It's not about being large; it's about being unbounded, without end.
I know what infinity is you donât have to explain it to me you seem to miss what I am saying. When I say *might* I am saying we would live so long that it would feel boundless that it would feel limitless, it will feel endless because of how large that time is
Apparently, they are currently reworking the theory that everything is moving away from each other. And that some parts of the universe are expanding, and some parts are contracting at different rates. So, the great freeze may not be an accurate view of the future after all
Granted the Big Crunch would still mean the end of current life most likely, but in a way that still has hope for it to begin a new Heat Death is a very depressing theory because at that point it is just over. Sure humanity will probably be gone insanely long before that, but it still would mean that there would come a time where there was nothing alive in existence ever again
Nah it'll be fine, just ask Multivac.
What if we already are transferring our consciousness to organic machines which are just human bodies.
Thatâs not happening any time soon. The extensions weâve received from tech has slowed and in some cases life expectancy has gotten worse. My own thoughts are we may be able to move out consciousness to a machine but 3 things probably need to happen. 1) finalize a unified theory of physics. I suspect consciousness is tied to quantum interaction within biological life forms. Thatâs not me saying that actually I think itâs something Iâve read but it was convincing that biological cells may be needed for consciousness the fact weâve yet to create consciousness just confirms this gap 2) the limited resource problem. Even if we transfer our brains into another media we still must contend with other âtransported beingsâ aka the rest of humanity going there with us. The issues limited resources and specifically limited energy create makes me think we will continue to wage war on one another in our new âbodiesâ still leading to death. 3) the aging ego or personality problem. Currently itâs thought old people approach death as a matter of practicality but we have no evidence if the human ego or psyche could tolerate existing for centuries. Massive depression or psychosis could manifest and forced existence might feel torturous. Think about how animals behave being kept alive, completely safe and provided all their physical needs. They pace, they develop neurosis, they pick at their skin. Itâs not clear humans could adapt to this. We are worried about people going crazy on a relatively short trip to mars.
Millennial here - yeah donât really see that happening.
The world is getting dumber by the year
Or humanity never makes it off earth successfully, which would be pretty unfortunate
Seems most likely. The only reason the space race happened was to measure dicks between Capitalist and Soviet power here on Earth. The only reason it happens now is for billionaire technocrats to measure their prestige here on Earth.
A lot of things happen in engineering just because they're cool. Habiting other planets is basically as cool as it gets. At some point we'll get there, if a global scale nuclear war doesn't destroy all human life first.
I think a complete collapse of bio diversity could also do a number. I wonder how hot and acidic the oceans have to get before the phyto plankton that make most of our oxygen die off. We are already seeing huge parts of the food chain go away in massive die offs.
Even if we absolutely destroy earth it will still be far more habitable than any other planet we would be capable of reaching.
I'd say civilisation that can terraform a planet, can fix climat changes. Unleash we speaking bulding habbitats.
And any plant we can go to would make hellscape earth look like paradise.
Agreed. So funny people are rushing to colonize other planets instead of just protecting the one we have. Each species that dies off is has billions worth of genetic information, and that is for the people that don't just....actually care about the animals and protecting bio diversity. As they say, a stitch in time saves 9. Or an ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure.
Does that mean that prevention of anything has a 1:16 effect to a solution of that potential problem. Have we cracked the code
To the other guyâs point though, I do hope we get those engineering solutions⌠but their use case will be here and not a remote planet
Me to. I would love nothing more than humanity to navigate out of this. Or shit, even some external help from AI or heck, even aliens.
Climate change will knock us out by the end of the next century.
It won't knock us out, knock us out, but it will knock down civilisation as we know it... We already survived one genetic bottle neck due to climate change, we'd do it again. Out biggest 'skill' is adaptability (think living in scorching deserts _and_ freezing tundras), we'd just adapt to the new normal
Nobody around, nobody to think it unfortunate.
A great filter perhaps.
Yup. Too many people are busy fighting
Original Terran checking in.
SCV good to go, sir
Theyâll probably discuss us the same way we discuss Neanderthals. Ancient uncivilised people who failed to adapt to a changing world.Â
Weâre still just a bunch of monkeys banging rocks against each other.
There's evidence that the Neanderthals were genocided. They could discuss humanity as being genocided by global warming and corporate greed.
Thereâs also evidence that they may have been decimated by a sudden shift in climate and we filled the gap before they could recover. Or we introduced diseases that they had no immunity for which wiped out their already small populations. With the hybrid offspring they had with us having better resistance, hence persisting Neanderthal DNA in modern humans. Or because of their small population they suffered from inbreeding depression and most of their offspring having detrimental birth defects with only the hybrid offspring they had with us reliably surviving. Or it was simply a numbers game, we integrated with them and interbred at random but due to the sheer difference in population most of what was left was *Homo sapiens*.
Welcome to the wonderful world of sci-fi literature, we've been entertaining this thought for decades!
It's already known as the place humanity started
"Remembered" is the keyword here.
You know what he means you fuckin goof
Bold of you to assume that but okay
I place my bets on humans fucking themselves over and getting wiped off from the reality.
Bold of you to assume humanity will make it off Earth at all.
Probably also as the place where humanity ended Probably also as the place destroyed by humanity
Maybe. Assuming we become interstellar, people may not remember Earth anymore than the average person remembers Ur.
I say it deepend how far we look in the future. Few hundreds years? Yea, peopel would know. Few thousand? It might be lost to times.
>[...]where humanity ended. There I corrected your typo.
By aliens who will discover the remains of human civilization. Ain't no way we're ever going to colonise other moons or planets by the time we destroy the atmosphere.
Well, that's dismal! We aren't *destroying* the atmosphere. It will always be there. We're just heating it and poisoning it beyond its ability to sustain human life.
Thatâs very optimistic of you.
Earth will be the place where humanity ends.
I sincerely doubt we'll make it out of earth.
Wishful thinking. We're hurtling towards our own demise
We may forget, like in Foundation
Bad ending, earth isn't remembered. Everyone and everything goes extinct.
Optimistic aren't we? -Perhaps one day it'll be remembered by the AI that survives us as the inhospitable holy place where their short sighted creators evolved and perished after losing control over their final creation. -Or maybe it'll be an irradiated wasteland populated by cronenberg mutants who can't remember a time it wasn't so. -Or maybe it'll end up a CO2 choked junkyard devoid of all advanced life except small pockets of squid in the far reaches of the ocean predating on one another and the few forms of jellyfish still around We need to start making better choices if we are to have any hope of our future selves realizing the statement that started this thread
It already is dumbass
We are lucky to exist during the absolute mind bogglingly tiny window of the Universe's lifespan that allows for the evolution of life.
Just discovered sci-fi before your shower?
One day, day will be 2 days long
We don't know that, actually.
Lol, no. Humanity will live and die out here, and there will be no one to remember us or this planet.
"Earth, man. What a shit hole"
But can no longer sustain life
It could probably end up like how africa is now, the birthplace of humankind but also the poorest
Very optimistic of you to believe we won't self-destruct before we go space faring.
Isn't it already know as that?
Some would say the earth is already remembered as the place where humanity started
Yeah, and i will be president of the United States of America
The species which remembers us is entirely irrelevant
That's wildly optimistic at best.
Or... it will be remembered as the birthplace of AI.
No man I think on surface there will be no existence, humans and animals may go under ground and to space...
Counterpoint: we donât even remember each other and in short order our species will obliterate itself and nothing will know we existed.
Very much reminds me of The Gods Themselves by Asimov! I wonât spoil too much but in it lots of people donât believe humanity started anywhere and think they all convergently evolved lol.
... And ended, most likely.
And ended, most likely.
Or the place it ended
Earth: where humanity died
And very potentially ended.
And very possibly ended
And if we keep doing the things we are doing this will be our grave.
Bold of you to assume there aren't other planets with life similar to us humans on them
Not necessarily. Just one gamma ray burst from being obliterated with no trace we were ever here and no one to remember us.
Or ended by our hubris
99.9% sure it will also be where we end and soon
And yet humans are solely adapted to Earth. Despite all the rhetoric about humans colonizing the stars, when it comes down it, us working in extreme environments like space and the bottom of the ocean is the exception, not the rule. When it comes to really getting off this planet and populating the stars, why carry the baggage of breathable air and potable water? If and when we become an interstellar civilization, it won't be humans doing the traveling, it'll be robots first followed in short order by organics custom-tailored to the environment they're destined for - never carry with you what you can build at your destination, and why build anything other than what you need? *Humanity will outlive humans*
That's awfully optimistic. There is another theory for why we haven't yet found intelligent life in the universe, that being that any species intelligent enough to develop sophisticated technology will inevitably wipe itself out before it becomes a space-faring species. With the current world events, I wouldn't necessarily say this is an unlikely outcome for us. In 2022, for obvious reasons, a precedent was set that in order for a country not to be invaded, they need nuclear deterrent. This will lead to more countries having nuclear weapons, which is more chances for accidental or intentional annihilation.
If you read any sci fi book that is set in the far future, sentiments like this are common
That's optimistic, there's a solid chance we kill ourselves before we expand
Anthropic Principle says that the universe exists because humans perceive it. Maybe I'm overthinking this Shower Though?
The question is whether that rememberance will be positive or negative. :)
The optimism on this one!
You donât exactly know that though. For all we know humanity as we know it transitioned to Earth. Everything we consider the origin of humanity is essentially just an educated guess/theory based on the little pieces of evidence we have
Nah. This species dies on this planet, much like many other species before.
Reminds me of âThe Last Questionâ By Isaac Asimov
I think we'll die here. Earth is our crib and our coffin
If we donât annihilate ourselves beforehand
And possibly ends the way we keep going right now.
I wouldnt count on it
I think thatâs a very optimistic view of humanities future as a Star Wars style spacefaring species
That happened already, a long time ago, and itâs still happening todayÂ
Depends if we make it through the great filter..
oh god i hope its remembered for something other than that
One day, we may discover that is not the case.
Oh you sweet summer child.
Remembered my who? Who says this is where it started? đ
By the aliens who find the remains
Maybe, maybe not. I mean, as much as I'd love to live in a time where humanity has spread among the stars, right now it's just an hypotetical scenario, there are A LOT of things that could go wrong until we get the opportunity to do that
Probably not. It is almost an absolute certainty that we stop at Mars. The vastness of space is incomprehensible to virtually all humans, and the laws of physics cannot be broken. The vastness of our little solar system is such that it has taken a full generation for two spacecraft to escape it at extraordinarily high speeds.
A Star Wars kinda life would be pretty cool ngl
If humanity doesnt kill the planet first thus killing itself
Earth will filled by dust
The Cradle of Humanity
One day, future generations will deny that the Earth was ever populated.
Isn't that day everyday?
You read Dune didn't you?
And where humamity will most likely end.
Also the place where huge manatees started
Earth will be humanity's grave
The inverse outcome is also possibly true: one day, nothing will remember Earth as the place where humanity ended.
...and where humans met their end.
And possibly ended. Too. lol.
I can already imagine aliens visiting Earth like tourists, taking selfies with the remnants of our civilization.
Would be great but I somewhat doubt it.
One day humans will be remembered as the first intellectual species.
Bold to assume we don't destroy ourselves first
I really hope we fizzle out
We wonât have colonies on other planets. Maybe space stations at a push but thatâll only be for maintenance purposes in relation to material collection to bring back to earth and all of the actual collection will be done by robots.
Granting there's anyone left to remember anythingÂ
Lol no one is leaving earth permanently
Instead of being a pessimistic little bitch y'all should go outside and try to change the world to a better place
Imagine if one day in the far future people start thinking life on earth is just a myth