Outside of tournaments nobody cares where you got the mini, some people care about WYSIWYG i.e. your spearman should have a spear, but most people are happy as long as they’re painted.
Until further notice all normal rat activity has been suspended. We have been experiencing a rat shortage due to the enthusiasm of Vermintide 2 players. Rats will return to their usual scheming and warp-dust huffing as soon as the Ubersreik 5 take a holiday.
They called a faction 'order' and put witch elf murder cults, naked dwarf mercenaries with flamethrowers and raging tree demons in it and somehow got away with it.
Do you have any idea how much effort goes into planing a murder blood rave. They don't just pop up out of no where you gotta wheel in the statue. Lift the snake up there make sure there is e enough gold cups and oh no we ran out well guess we have to make more now
To have a successful murder cult you need cities that are big enough to support the occasional slaughter of a hundred people, of course the witch elf murder cults support the general concept of Order :p
And meanwhile "chaos" contains probably the most ordered, hierarchical societies of the setting where everyone's role and rank is absolutely everything and there's an established way to do everything
I always thought the coolest thing about Warhammer was how believable it was that whatever faction you were playing as were the "good guys"
Playing as dwarfs? Those damned elves don't have an ounce of honor or respect. They spit on agreements and betray their allies and never make proper amends. High and mighty and full of themselves. Pretentious knife ears.
Playing as elves? Those dirty manchildren with unwashed beards and smelly bodies are so immature that a haircut is enough to send their entire race into a millenia long frenzy. They just need to grow up and stop being whiny babies.
I always found the morally-grey, ‘anyone’s view of the universe can be correct’ interpretation a little more compelling in 40k. In Fantasy it’s very clearly the Lizardmen’s world and we’re all just living in it
That seems to be where a lot of the anger that caused the change came from, Yeah.
But even as a big TK fan I didn't really snub my nose at it. It was very clearly boiling it down to the most black and white version of factions as it could be.
Still though, it's really funny that people made enough noise that had changed it that quickly.
Still. What did Tomb Kings do.
You leave them alone, and nothing happens. If anything they defend themselves against imperial and bretonian aggressors, who try to steal the tomb king's stuff or destroy their buildings.
The only "evil" aspect of them is, that they are undead, and therefor look like monsters. Also, they are archenemies of the Vampire Counts and Nagash. Though, thematicly those probably do not play much of a role, since Manfred is dead already by the time, TOW is set. At east... as dead as they can be for the time being.
I mean the majority of them are still petty tyrants, Even if they're tyrannical, nature is blunted by the fact that they rule over what is a majority of unthinking skeletons.
As you had said they go after people who steal from them, but that's as true of grave robbers and unthinking excavators as it is people who just happen to have inherited a cool shiny gold statue from their ancestors.
A tomb king with a grudge against a vampire is just as likely to valiantly fight alongside the imperials who occupy the land of vampire is in as he is to trample them, if not outright blame them for the indulgence that made the vampire strong in the first place.
Many tomb kings have a little more to do than wage pointless petty war since they're undead nature denies them much of these simple pleasures of life, not to mention that Settra cracks down on troublemakers within the nehekhara.
The neutrality of the tomb kings comes less from " not being good or evil" and more from being aligned with their own personal interests.
Thing is, pretty much all factions can be descriped as "evil".
Bretonnians are flat out delusional about their peasants and turn treatment of serfs up to eleven.
The imperial society is pretty much compareable to the worst, literally interpreting groups of abrahamic religions our world has ever seen.
With usually a shit of corruption on upper levels. Karl Franz is the exception of an Emperor, not the norm. 2500 years Imperial history. Give us 5 Emperors of note, not being useless pieces of shit and the Empire not having some civil war ongoing... the era of TOW is pretty much that of 750 years civil war drawn at religious lines.
And i do not start with the borderlands and Tilea and Estalia.
If Nehekarians were living humans, we could not see them as evil, because the other human societies are the same.
And the "good" nonhunans. Well, dwarves have the book if grudges for a reason.
While Woodelves just usually kill all, setting food into their forrest.
Warhammer The Old World. Which is going to be basically WHF. With the square bases and regiments, yes. It'll be focused on the titular Old World. So mostly no Lustria or Naggaroth, the Skaven are off having a massive secret civil war and have retreated from the surface world, Ogres and Chaos Dwarves are very far away, and the VCs are in a quiet/dead phase.
Just to add, they're doing free pdf rules for the factions not present so they'll be playable, but have said that they're not otherwise supported and the focus of the narrative (and I'm assuming rules, mini releases and so on) is on the factions on this list.
Has there been any indication of a timeline? Is this a "Chaos never won" deal or a 40k style "wobbly wobbly timey wimey stuff" thing where history is questionable at best and the dates don't matter?
They've explicitly stated multiple times now that the end times happened, AoS is still the main fantasy game, and that this is just set before the WFB times.
That whole stuff was hundreds if not thousands of years before. A bit after the chaos gods entered the world and got mostly kicked out by the donut vortex.
Do believe he was invading said donut in this time period though. Hopefully that will be part of some narrative expansion later.
Over in Nagarrond stabbing eachother in the back and ignoring everyone else. which is incredibly disappointing I was especially excited for them coming back.
Most of the articles have been about deflating expectations instead of showing what TOW is going to be about. Seems like they had an idea four years ago and suddenly reality hits and it just wasn't possible anymore and we are now here with barely an effort to make it.
I was never really interested since I really like AoS, but watching the few guys trying to hype up TOW locally has been a sad thing.
Or they know exactly how the community is and chosen to reign in their "enthusiasm" because they can't be arsed to deal with that bullshit for another game...
They were all mostly just pissed at Tomb Kings being classed as evil because Settra is big wholesome chungus chad (being a megalomaniacal expansionist who sacrificed his own kid to his god for more power is a good thing doncha know)
There's also other Tomb Kings I guess but this narrative is about Settra and Warhammer fans can't read
Kids plural. All of them. And they were a lot.
Also hunting freeing Dwarfs and killing them in the desert for sport, hunting them like an Ind Prince would do to a tiger? I remember Settra. He is an asshole and does lot of inhumane things. But he **does not serve.**
I mean, you can make rank trays for round bases and the rank and flank mechanics don't have to be hard. In fact they can be simpler than squad based mechanics (cf. Oathmark).
Cuz they already have age of sigmar as a game? And they can get the Warhammer fantasy fans as a market with this. And people who just want a specific ruleset as well.
I.....have a disturbing feeling that's gonna be it for playable factions because of some AOS stuff. Bet you they use it as an excuse to can it again. Until proven otherwise I have....shaky faith in GW
I dunno. My extreme skepticism in GW is telling me they're gonna conveniently "forget" then claim lack of interest. I firmly believe they don't actually want to bring back WHF, because you can't crossmodel like you can with AoS and 40k
Hopefully they just go to the end times/aos of order/chaos/death/destruction. Left room for conflict within the blocs without the black and white good and evil in middle earth
Hey, I see room under that right-hand column, no need to leave out "Dark Elf Corsairs" or "Skaven."
You get a free rules pdf for minis you can't buy anymore or that don't come with square bases. Enjoy Jimbo
More excuses to use Kings of War minis
I've been thinking of getting some, but the mixed quality in some armies is putting me off a little at least online. How are they?
Just outbid curiosity, what’s the general community consensus on self made minis, Heroforge, Eldritch Foundry, etc?
Outside of tournaments nobody cares where you got the mini, some people care about WYSIWYG i.e. your spearman should have a spear, but most people are happy as long as they’re painted.
Nice, thanks!
>anymore soft confirmation no range refresh for either then?
I'd call it hard confirmation that those factions won't be getting anything for a few years at least.
*Steve Carell bursts into room* WHERE ARE THE ***RATS??!!*** ***WHERE ARE THEY?!***
In the groud fighting a massive civil war
Until further notice all normal rat activity has been suspended. We have been experiencing a rat shortage due to the enthusiasm of Vermintide 2 players. Rats will return to their usual scheming and warp-dust huffing as soon as the Ubersreik 5 take a holiday.
Skaven do not exist! Skaven do not exist!
Hey they’re listening to criticism at least.
Cowards. COWARDS.
I'm out of the loop what did they change?
It originally said "Good" over the left the column and "Evil" over the right column
Oh no...
That had to have been one of the designers just categorizing stuff to explain to markets or execs or something.
At least Sigmar has the good sense to use "Order"
They called a faction 'order' and put witch elf murder cults, naked dwarf mercenaries with flamethrowers and raging tree demons in it and somehow got away with it.
Do you have any idea how much effort goes into planing a murder blood rave. They don't just pop up out of no where you gotta wheel in the statue. Lift the snake up there make sure there is e enough gold cups and oh no we ran out well guess we have to make more now
LED BY FUCKING MORATHI
Uh… uh… Lawful-Evil?
A nice example of why the faction is called "Order" and not "Good".
Tbf, "order" in AoS just means "factions that build settlements, expand their industry, and engage in trade/diplomacy with each other."
No, the alliance is just called order because the factions allied to oppose chaos, as in order is the opposite of chaos.
By that definition if they add chaos dwarfs again, they should be listed as Order.
To have a successful murder cult you need cities that are big enough to support the occasional slaughter of a hundred people, of course the witch elf murder cults support the general concept of Order :p
Let’s not forget the soul stealing sea elves, the demon lizardmen and the fantasy immortal space marine that are slowly losing themselves
There should be a Witch Elf-Slayer formation called the Cheek-clapping cacophony but noooo that'd be too _wild_ for Order
And meanwhile "chaos" contains probably the most ordered, hierarchical societies of the setting where everyone's role and rank is absolutely everything and there's an established way to do everything
That was from Fantasy in the firs tpace and no it's boring trash.
Yes-yes manthings, no rats no rats, now turn away so I can stab-kill yes
I always thought the coolest thing about Warhammer was how believable it was that whatever faction you were playing as were the "good guys" Playing as dwarfs? Those damned elves don't have an ounce of honor or respect. They spit on agreements and betray their allies and never make proper amends. High and mighty and full of themselves. Pretentious knife ears. Playing as elves? Those dirty manchildren with unwashed beards and smelly bodies are so immature that a haircut is enough to send their entire race into a millenia long frenzy. They just need to grow up and stop being whiny babies.
I always found the morally-grey, ‘anyone’s view of the universe can be correct’ interpretation a little more compelling in 40k. In Fantasy it’s very clearly the Lizardmen’s world and we’re all just living in it
Tomb Kings are non evil
That seems to be where a lot of the anger that caused the change came from, Yeah. But even as a big TK fan I didn't really snub my nose at it. It was very clearly boiling it down to the most black and white version of factions as it could be. Still though, it's really funny that people made enough noise that had changed it that quickly.
Still. What did Tomb Kings do. You leave them alone, and nothing happens. If anything they defend themselves against imperial and bretonian aggressors, who try to steal the tomb king's stuff or destroy their buildings. The only "evil" aspect of them is, that they are undead, and therefor look like monsters. Also, they are archenemies of the Vampire Counts and Nagash. Though, thematicly those probably do not play much of a role, since Manfred is dead already by the time, TOW is set. At east... as dead as they can be for the time being.
I mean the majority of them are still petty tyrants, Even if they're tyrannical, nature is blunted by the fact that they rule over what is a majority of unthinking skeletons. As you had said they go after people who steal from them, but that's as true of grave robbers and unthinking excavators as it is people who just happen to have inherited a cool shiny gold statue from their ancestors. A tomb king with a grudge against a vampire is just as likely to valiantly fight alongside the imperials who occupy the land of vampire is in as he is to trample them, if not outright blame them for the indulgence that made the vampire strong in the first place. Many tomb kings have a little more to do than wage pointless petty war since they're undead nature denies them much of these simple pleasures of life, not to mention that Settra cracks down on troublemakers within the nehekhara. The neutrality of the tomb kings comes less from " not being good or evil" and more from being aligned with their own personal interests.
Thing is, pretty much all factions can be descriped as "evil". Bretonnians are flat out delusional about their peasants and turn treatment of serfs up to eleven. The imperial society is pretty much compareable to the worst, literally interpreting groups of abrahamic religions our world has ever seen. With usually a shit of corruption on upper levels. Karl Franz is the exception of an Emperor, not the norm. 2500 years Imperial history. Give us 5 Emperors of note, not being useless pieces of shit and the Empire not having some civil war ongoing... the era of TOW is pretty much that of 750 years civil war drawn at religious lines. And i do not start with the borderlands and Tilea and Estalia. If Nehekarians were living humans, we could not see them as evil, because the other human societies are the same. And the "good" nonhunans. Well, dwarves have the book if grudges for a reason. While Woodelves just usually kill all, setting food into their forrest.
I'm out of the loop. Is fantasy coming back?? Will it have the old style regiments!? Also no skaven, lizardmen, dark elves, vampire counts and ogres!?
Warhammer The Old World. Which is going to be basically WHF. With the square bases and regiments, yes. It'll be focused on the titular Old World. So mostly no Lustria or Naggaroth, the Skaven are off having a massive secret civil war and have retreated from the surface world, Ogres and Chaos Dwarves are very far away, and the VCs are in a quiet/dead phase.
Well it's a start! Thanks for the info!
They're releasing free PDF rules for all 8th es armies plus Chaos Dwarves too, so really it's just "These are the guys who'll get shiny FW models"
Although pragmatically speaking I would expect the PDF lists to become rapidly marginalised as far as effectiveness is concerned.
Eh, that's more of a GW thing than a FW thing. Guess it depends on who's writing the rules
Just to add, they're doing free pdf rules for the factions not present so they'll be playable, but have said that they're not otherwise supported and the focus of the narrative (and I'm assuming rules, mini releases and so on) is on the factions on this list.
Has there been any indication of a timeline? Is this a "Chaos never won" deal or a 40k style "wobbly wobbly timey wimey stuff" thing where history is questionable at best and the dates don't matter?
It's set literal centuries before the end times, meaning they've side stepped this question entirely.
They've explicitly stated multiple times now that the end times happened, AoS is still the main fantasy game, and that this is just set before the WFB times.
I was really hoping the setting would be pre-vampire wars and that it would build to Vlad being the first big bad and then moving to Asavar Kul later.
Hey where’s the Dark Elves
Over in Ulthuan.
Oh is this before Malekith et al left and got mad? Sorry, literally all I know is TWW2 and some Tom and Ben stream ‘lore’.
It shouldn't be before that. The Empire and Brettonia were among the last entities to really take shape, if my old brain remembers correctly.
That whole stuff was hundreds if not thousands of years before. A bit after the chaos gods entered the world and got mostly kicked out by the donut vortex. Do believe he was invading said donut in this time period though. Hopefully that will be part of some narrative expansion later.
Over in Nagarrond stabbing eachother in the back and ignoring everyone else. which is incredibly disappointing I was especially excited for them coming back.
It seems like they don't know what they're doing with TOW.
Not sure about that but it seems all very weird to me.
Can you elaborate on this please? I'm new the fantasy side if GW
Most of the articles have been about deflating expectations instead of showing what TOW is going to be about. Seems like they had an idea four years ago and suddenly reality hits and it just wasn't possible anymore and we are now here with barely an effort to make it. I was never really interested since I really like AoS, but watching the few guys trying to hype up TOW locally has been a sad thing.
Or they know exactly how the community is and chosen to reign in their "enthusiasm" because they can't be arsed to deal with that bullshit for another game...
Luv me Skaven Luv me Ogres Luv me Chaos Dwarves Luv me Norsca Luv me Vampires Luv me Slann Ate wutevuh this is Simple as.
At least they don't insist on calling an actual empire "the good guys"
What happened to Cathay and Kislev?
They will come later
Warhammer fantasy fans having to accept that their setting isn't that morally complex was too much for them ig
They were all mostly just pissed at Tomb Kings being classed as evil because Settra is big wholesome chungus chad (being a megalomaniacal expansionist who sacrificed his own kid to his god for more power is a good thing doncha know) There's also other Tomb Kings I guess but this narrative is about Settra and Warhammer fans can't read
Everything moral in the warhammer world is measured with the chaos yard stick. Are you worse or nearly as bad as Chaos?
Kids plural. All of them. And they were a lot. Also hunting freeing Dwarfs and killing them in the desert for sport, hunting them like an Ind Prince would do to a tiger? I remember Settra. He is an asshole and does lot of inhumane things. But he **does not serve.**
I too think a society that practices annual genocide for fun are good guys.
That is how gw presents them yes.
Less good vs evil and more evil vs eviler
I was kind of like "The Tomb Kings are evil? Like aren't they a pretty neutral faction by Warhammer standards."
I don't get why it's so complicated to seamlessly produce a rank-and-flank variant of AoS. One Page Rules did it, why can't GW do it?
That's a really good question and one I had not considered. Branding, maybe? Keeping Age of Sigmar as the "easy" game system?
I mean, you can make rank trays for round bases and the rank and flank mechanics don't have to be hard. In fact they can be simpler than squad based mechanics (cf. Oathmark).
Cuz they already have age of sigmar as a game? And they can get the Warhammer fantasy fans as a market with this. And people who just want a specific ruleset as well.
You are talking about why they are doing this game. I am asking why is it so hard to make.
Why do you think they're finding it hard to make?
They've been talking about this for what, a year now?
Do you realise how long a lead time everything at GW has?
I.....have a disturbing feeling that's gonna be it for playable factions because of some AOS stuff. Bet you they use it as an excuse to can it again. Until proven otherwise I have....shaky faith in GW
Also, didn't they kinda promise Grand Cathay?
Yes but not yet
I dunno. My extreme skepticism in GW is telling me they're gonna conveniently "forget" then claim lack of interest. I firmly believe they don't actually want to bring back WHF, because you can't crossmodel like you can with AoS and 40k
Is there a way to play tabletop WH on the computer? Random question I know.
Didn't they say Kislev and Cathay would be making their tabletop debut in The Old World????
It's still all very dissapointing to me.
Where are my dark elves!
no ogor?
The ogres get rules not story
so ogor?
THE MAW CALLS
YEAH GET SHREKED!
It's like going into a speakeasy that only sells college bar drinks
What did they change? I haven’t kept up with the old world news.
They removed the good and evil lables
Where are the rat guys???
Instead of removing, they should’ve replaced it with “EVIL” and “EVIL”
Hopefully they just go to the end times/aos of order/chaos/death/destruction. Left room for conflict within the blocs without the black and white good and evil in middle earth