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He was initially cheered over Ambrose too. Granted, Dean was getting some backlash after the lackluster Summerslam match with Ziggler and the awkward podcast with Austin.
Styles did some good work to actually and eventually get booed because he was so over like a motherfvcker at the time, and likewise, Mox did a good job turning the negative sentiment around with his masterful deconstruction of Cena, and (no joke) buddying around with Elsworth. His reaction from Backlash 2016 vs TLC 2016 was night and day.
I like Charlotte WAY more than the average person on this sub seems to, but I have no fucking idea what WWE was thinking by turning Becky heel against Charlotte
I’m sure Charlotte is a wonderful person, but she’s a natural heel on camera while Becky is a natural babyface. Asking fans to cheer Charlotte over Becky was a disaster waiting to happen
It was also like, one of the most justified heel turns ever. I’m all for heels having valid motivations but this was to the point where Becky did nothing wrong. Charlotte was an asshole bully and Becky was standing up for herself
Becky spent weeks winning matches to get a match at Summerslam, Charlotte comes back from plastic surgery (I think, could have been a real injury, I just remember she was off TV for a while), immediately gets handed a spot in the Summerslam match, Becky gets pissed and calls out Charlotte’s privilege, Charlotte is just like “I work hard too”, and we were supposed to take Charlotte’s side?????
Not just weeks, months. Her only televised loss between WrestleMania and SummerSlam was the MITB match.
It was insane that one man thought this was a good idea. At least after a couple of months, they had the good sense to stop fighting against it.
It was one of those moments that stood out for how tone deaf it was.
They're telling this amazing story about how Becky, perennial underdog and "girl behind the girl" was clawing her way for an opportunity against a heel champion, and then they just slap Charlotte onto the match and it's like "wait did you not realize the story you guys were telling?"
Yeah, that was really interesting to read, Charlotte saw it coming too. Told Becky they were about to turn her into Stone Cold.
Or the part where they tried to use Edge to get the crowd to boo her and it didn't work. He just goes back to gorilla baffled and says 'well, I tried but they're not gonna boo her", lol.
On a side note. Becky’s book made me think so much more highly of Charlotte. I was high on her before but she does seem like such a lovely person behind the scenes. I can’t imagine having all the pressure that her Dad’s legacy puts on her. Charlotte can’t help that she’s a Flair or that she was management’s pick, she could have coasted on that alone. However, she has come out and consistently put in the work and given us all a lot of matches we won’t forget.
This shit was way too common during Vince's days. I don't know if people remember HBK screwing over Daniel Bryan at Hell in a Cell 2013, Bryan atacks HBK the next night on RAW and the fans absolutely love it while the annnouncers act like he just commited this henious thing and is turning heel.
Oh yeah, theres a part in the book where they tell Becky to not pay attention to the crowd reaction because it's a "heel crowd"
Reading that, I'm just like "what the fuck is a heel crowd?". Why are you viewing your crowd as the villain? Very symbolic of Vince's last like...I dunno, 15-20 years.
Reminds me of the time they had JBL say on commentary that the crowd is having fun because they're booing people they normally cheer and cheer who they normally boo. I think it was a Raw after Mania.
This was classic "Vince not listening to the crowd." If I recall, this was the match where becky slapped Charlotte as Charlotte tried to raise Becky's hand after charlotte won...or something like that...there was already some ground swell of support for Becky, but the crowd reacted positively when that happened...then the following smackdown, Becky tried to give a heel promo speech, and the crowd was basically chanting, "Becky...Becky...Becky!" IT was hilariously bad from Vince the he tried to make HER the heel instead of Charlotte.
> Becky tried to give a heel promo speech,
The heel speech was comical because it was a "you people didn't believe in me" generic heel speech _while they were eating up everything she said and did_.
I remember there was one specific line from that promo that said the crowd didn't believe in her, and they cut it out from all replays and youtube vids. Honestly, without that one line, it was a pretty good promo, iirc.
Charlotte Flair is amazing and I'm a fan of hers, but it made absolutely no sense. I agree, she's much better suited as a heel, she's just really good at being a heel. Nothing wrong with that, it's one of her strengths.
> she’s a natural heel on camera while Becky is a natural babyface
That whole group of women coming out of the black-and-gold NXT should have been so easy to book. Becky’s Becky, Bailey’s a really good old-school face, I wanna say Naomi was getting good reactions around that time, and everyone else was a good-to-great heel. Outside of AJ Styles crushing everything out of the park, that women’s division could have been the best thing on WWE TV at the time.
I had a lot of problems with Alexa Bliss’ booking in her first couple years on the main roster (especially as a Bayley fan) but she was an undeniable heel.
Some of the storylines and bad booking Bliss has survived are really a testament to her talent. That Bailey feud… man, I don’t what the hell that was. I felt bad for both of them watching that.
The fact that Alexa has a cheerleading background that they barely utilized in her ring work is so weird to me.
I mean she beat Mickie James once by just punching her in the face. Why is a five foot nothing former cheerleader winning matches with Big Show's moves?!
It was a big part of her early NXT career to the point where it almost seemed like her ceiling. Her turning heel when she joined up with Buddy Murphy and Wesley Blake was a massive shock, but the bigger surprise was what a natural she was at it.
When this was happening, I was still reacclimating to wrestling as a former fan back in middle school, coming back to it as a college student. I thought Charlotte was good as a face of the division-esque babyface, though in hindsight it certainly isn't her best role and I get why she reminds people of Cena. Becky I had very little familiarity with and wasn't sold on the internet hype yet because she had only been presented as a midcard act to me. When Becky turned on Charlotte, I was intrigued, but also amused that the crowd was fully on Becky's side lol. When Becky was blatantly forced to use a script that ignored the fact that the fans cheered for her and pretend that they turned against her last night, I jumped fully onto the bandwagon out of spite lol. It was like watching one of those videogame cutscenes that render things dynamically (i.e.: if you set shit on fire right before triggering the cutscene, and the fire spreads to the NPC as they're talking to you, they just keep talking casually as their skin begins melting off). That's how stupid the WWE writers looked at the time, that they couldn't acknowledge the reality of what had happened and instead just committed to their false reality while Road Dogg went to Twitter to blame the fans for not humoring them and playing along.
You were JUST coming back, you need to realize at this point we had 3 whole damn years of WWE completely ignoring fans booing Roman Reigns. WWE fans were just PISSED at the time for force feeding storylines that wasn't working. WWE actually pivoting to babyface Becky a few weeks later was SO refreshing.
I don't think anyone hates Charlotte. She just does keep doing the same thing. She's injured, returns & instantly wins a belt which is justified at the time because we love her when she returns. But 2 months later it's boring, her work rate drops for TV. Rins/Repeat
I HOPE under HHH we can see a new Charlotte gimmick. If anything, she could just act more like Ric. Constantly cocaine active, intense to the bone, delivers in matches, flaunts her riches. She shouldn't be a heel or a face. We need a full year of consistent Charlotte just being Charlotte
Yeah, pretty much. Her character work as a babyface hasn't always been the best, but I'd say a vast majority of the time, if people have an issue with her, it's really just the booking.
Her cutting the “YOU PEOPLE didn’t support me promo” while the crowd was chanting her name and the night before everyone went nuts for her beating up Charlotte was hilarious.
Another glaring example of the past regime's stubbornness and refusal to change even promos like that on the fly. Even if they want to keep Becky heel, making her cut the standard "No one supported me" promo the night after she was wildly cheered even when she sucker-punched Charlotte was beyond ridiculous. WWE wasn't even willing to change that promo to match the crowd reaction.
This is something I love about current WWE. They aren't afraid to play along with the fans. "Fans are cheering La Knight who couldn't even find a spot in the wrestlemania 39 preshow? Guess we'll just turn him face and make him stand toe to toe with Roman Reigns. Fans want Sami Zayn and Jey even though they're mid-card jobbers? We'll turn them into big stars now. Fans want Cody over THE FUCKING ROCK??? And Roman???? Fine"
This is a completely different WWE from how it was since 2002 where they would be very stubborn and if fans were stubborn then they would double and triple down and tear down what they want just out of pure spite. It was legit so bizarre to see low iq dumbasses running things.
> They aren't afraid to play along with the fans.
Honestly it's made being a WWE fan a LOT more durable, the years were our storyline criticism were countered with WWE shills arguing that crowd reaction didn't matter and WWE is the billion dollar company so they know what they are doing and are above approach was just exashauting. And it's amazing how A LOT of what people said were simple fixes back then actually were the fixes, make Roman Reigns heel, tell longer term storylines. I no longer have to read stupid arguments like "making Reings heel won't work because people will then just cheer him so the Big Dog IS a good character" or "long term storylines don't work with weekly TV".
In her book she talked about how she tried to fight them on that, knowing how nonsensical that line was. They apparently agreed with her shortly after and cut that line out of any future airings of the promo, and never tried to go that route again, even when they were still trying to portray her as a Heel.
It was even funnier and more bizarre if you had a better memory span than a goldfish. Becky’s fan support was completely organic at the time. The crowd at MitB a couple months earlier was going fucking feral every single time she climbed the ladder. *Everyone* wanted to see her win another title.
The reasoning that they wanted two main event women to benefit from main eventing Wrestlemania because they knew Ronda was leaving for a bit afterwards kind of made sense but the execution was so clunky, no one actually wanted to see Charlotte in that match.
Becky attacked Charlotte after their match ***and the crowd cheered.*** Becky's eventual change into "The Man" character started off with WWE trying to force her to the audience as a heel, but the audience wanted no part of it. They were glad Becky was finally taking charge after Charlotte was offered easy opportunities while Becky had to struggle to get to the top.
By Survivor Series, WWE finally pulled their heads out of their asses and kept Becky as a face. But even her Wrestlemania match with Ronda Rousey had Charlotte added to it for no real reason.
Oh we are going to turn the underdog into a heel against the nepo baby champ who wins always and looks like a goddess.
Oh why are the dumb fans booing the nepo baby. What the fuck
I agree with you on the bad management front, but Charlotte is more than a nepo baby. Even without the flair name she would have made it imo, she's genuinely really fucking good, she just isn't a babyface.
Charlotte would be a completly different wrestler if she wasn't Ric Flair's child. Her moveset, her catchphrase, her theme song and entrance attre all come from her dad and she wouldn't of been handed championships for the sake of getting to number 16 or booked nearly as strong. She might of been successful but I doubt she would be any where close to the level shes currently at.
The "You People" promo they had Becky do after she turned at SummerSlam was hilariously tone-deaf, considering the entire arena popped when it happened and chanted "You deserve it" to Charlotte afterward.
and vince's genius idea in response, turn him face? Nope, take away everything from him that was getting him cheered (because then people would obviously boo him instead), but not replace it with anything else so he just became generic heel #100 on the roster.
That one RAW where he was out on the bad news elevator like 7 times in one night was peak Barrett, especially when the elevator broke. I thought he covered it brilliantly when he said "I've come down to your level to deliver you some MORE BAD NEWS!"
Straight up, it's so fucking easy to give the answer to "why did X leave???" when you remember how wild as hell the 2010s was. So much potential squandered because Vince couldn't or wouldn't just pull the damn trigger on them.
I was so sad they gave him king of the ring, and then turned his gimic into the cosmic king.
Not like this was the guy whose entrance theme started with, "God save the queen."
This is one of the things I'm happiest is gone, Vince's insane stubbornness about changing his plans. He'd doggedly stick to something thinking it'll eventually work, it would blow up in his face, then he'd drop the whole thing and take the wrestler off TV until they were released.
Idk if backfiring is the term but we just watched Swerve break into someone’s house and antagonize a baby. Cut to everyone screaming that it’s his house and being a baby face champion.
It backfired in the sense that making Swerve a big time heel failed entirely, but the manner that it failed just happens to actually work out really well. A happy accident.
I think the intention was good, it literally just failed because Swerve is too fucking cool and awesome, and you're watching him elevate his game to such a high level that you just want to support him. Plus the dance/WHOSE HOUSE is just too over haha.
Swerve was actually doing a pretty awesome job of being this horrible, violent dude. But then everyone was just like fuck this guy is so good WHOSE HOUSE and it couldn't really be stopped.
Also when someone is like I want to be the first black man to win the title it's hard do be like nah fuck that dude.
I’m seriously still hung up on this a little bit. The man threatened an infant child. Literally we saw him staring down into a CRIB after breaking into a man’s house. But somehow Swerve is the face and Hangman is a heel for Hangman being furious that Swerve did that?
I wouldn’t mind Swerve being a face if he had ever faced some consequences or repented or something for that, but he never did. He just got cheered into a face, and while I like Swerve, i really hate that we as a collective fanbase refuse to buy into kayfabe more heavily.
Hangman is Frank Grimes. Hes **right** to be pissed off that hes apparently living in bizzaro world where an **objectively bad guy** is getting cheered for doing **bad things**.
Hangman still complains that management did not fire Swerve for doing a bad job at the power plant. He's still mad that Swerve won a company kids' contest and was able to eat floating chips on space.
He DID eventually repent later. Hangmans obsession made him let go of every moral sense he had for years and turn on the fans, which provided the perfect foil for the double turn.
It's the same thing with Bayley, she never did anything major to repent, she simply apologized for her actions AFTER everyone cheered theirs asses off for her Rumble win. Fans were already ready for her to turn and wanted to embrace her and cheer for her when she gets her moment.
Swerve was too talented and cool to boo, sometimes it's as simple as that, kayfabe be damned. People wanna have a good time, wrestling is not supposed to be that strict and academic, if anything that's a bit of a turn off, people wanna have fun and they cheer for and gravitate towards whoever they like. SCSA was the most asshole that has ever assholed and he was getting cheered in 1997, it's why Bret Hart "turned heel". Bret was 100% right, but the crowd simply liked Austin too much. The dynamic of face/heel is waaay more blurry now than the old school days.
> I’m seriously still hung up on this a little bit. The man threatened an infant child. Literally we saw him staring down into a CRIB after breaking into a man’s house. But somehow Swerve is the face and Hangman is a heel for Hangman being furious that Swerve did that?
YES!!!
Swerve is not a face. He was captured on video breaking the law multiple times (the Nick Wayne assault as well), yet he faced no consequences and is now somehow the good guy.
Hangman was a justified heel. His persona became obsessed to take revenge against Swerve. Angry Hangman was a treat because it brought out a previously unseen part of Page that was chilling and done so well.
The other part is that Page and Swerve have great chemistry. They are perfect "dance partners" for each other. Page and Swerve's personas wanted to end the other guy. It was brutal, chilling, and brilliant.
One note on heel Swerve. Sure Nana had a great dance and good chemistry with Swerve. But there were moments when Swerve was ready to give into his darkest thoughts and Nana was the only guy who could talk Swerve down. Brilliant.
Heel turn so bad that he left and became world champion in two entirely different fucking companies. It was crushingly disappointing at the time but fuck, I couldn't be happier with the way everything turned out for him.
I loved hearing him talk about that night he was in like 6 segments, wearing the Bane overcoat, talking about the smell of the crowd...he hated that shit
Became wrestler of the year, face of another company, help usher in a legit alternative to the (at the time) very stale WWE, help build interest in indie wrestling and even overcame his alcohol issues AND became a dad.
Mox is awesome.
My path to giving a shit about wrestling began with stumbling on Ambrose promos on youtube like, the *day* after he cashed in MITB on Seth and he has been somewhere in my top 5 wrestlers ever since, favourite WWE guy right up until he left.
Moxley's massive success since leaving has been so incredibly fucking vindicating. Driving him away might have been the biggest McMahon booking mistake of the modern era.
That first moment was amazing. Ambrose just can't deal with everything going on around him and he snaps. And Seth recognizes exactly what's happening, and even after taking the hit just wants to de-escalate it. It was one of the most human moments they ever had. That makes everything that happened afterwards even more disastrous.
And a lot of people forget that many in the crowd and elsewhere thought that Ambrose was going to be the one that broke up the Shield years before this. They even teased it several times towards the end of the Shield run.
They could have called back to al of that with Ambrose's turn, but nah, typical Voldemort McMahon bs.
Edit: fixed "bu5 nag" to "but nah"
It was all execution. Ambrose turning on Rollins on the very night Roman had to step away due to his cancer returning got him a ton of well-deserved heat.
And then Ambrose's heel turn became whatever dumb bullshit Vince wanted instead of playing to Ambrose's strengths.
I’ve referred to what he and LA Knight, for example, had happen as the Bobby Lashley effect.
He came out and was like GRRR IM A BAD GUY and here I am like Bobby I’ve been a fan for 20 years, I ain’t booing you dog
Like for real, I’ve been a fan since he was in WWECW and shit, and like, the man is 49 and YOLKED and is a forever reliable and solid worker.
Bobby needs to come over and beat my ass for me not to pop for him.
It’s basically the complete opposite of X-PAC heat.
It’s like Final Boss Rocky. Hes like fuck all you fans you’re all meth head trailer trash and the crowds like YEAHHHHHH INSULT ME HARDER MAUI
is it just me that really liked All Mighty run. There was obvious Vince bs. It was a bland character for Lashley but for once they stuck with it, MVP carried the early work then about 6 months in I really liked Lashley. I wanted him to dominate & he did
I don't know if I remember this correctly, but I'm pretty sure I saw her try to cut a "You people turned on me" promo to an audience that most definitely did NOT turn on her and was explicitly still rooting for her.
They threw Cena at her so that she could give him the cold shoulder thinking that would finally turn her. Everything that happened after SummerSlam ‘18 just built her up more and more as a face until Nia broke her nose. Which finally cemented her in place.
I remember at one point after trying to reword or redirect it like 3 times, and the fans adjusting their chants/cheers to keep going with her, you can just see her break into a smile because it was SO OBVIOUSLY not working lol.
Becky in 2018-2019 and Daniel Bryan in 2014: the two biggest examples of WWE falling ass-backwards into main event stars despite their own efforts to keep them heel or out of the main event.
Really? Don't remember that. That's so dumb. No body is more white meat baby face than Sting in the 90s. Like.... he was more face than face Hogan who still occasionally did dirty things.
Kinda, more tweener than anything because his reasons behind his turn was a well thought out "neccesary evil", but he always was the voice of reason within MEM, didn't join in with the typical heel beatdowns, and eventually lead to the beginning of the breakup of the group when Sting's moral actions kept on frustrating the vicious heel in Angle.
Correct, in 99' or 2000 they tried to turn Crow Sting heel against a Red & Yellow Hogan in WCW... I was at the Fall Brawl in NC where it happened (Benoit vs. Sid was also on there for the US Title)
Everyone and their brother was cheering Stinger and booing Hogan.
i think the turn just happened too quickly and out of nowhere. Literally went from dancing in the ring to "yeah I ran over stone cold with a car".
If they had built up the turn I think it couldve worked. It also didnt help that the turn happened by him making a sad confession, and then making himself look like an idiot by trying to help the rock against Angle and failing.
He shouldve turned by being happy about shelving Austin, and purposely costing the Rock the title by saying he didnt deserve it anymore or something.
I don't know if this fits the bill, but a face Sheamus squashing a heel Bryan at Wrestlemania 28. If I'm not mistaken, that's what kicked off the 'Yes Movement'.
Yeah. He constantly used AJ Lee as his shield and was a chickenshit heel. Him finally getting his comeuppance at WM soured the fans because he was so good in ring and they felt both he and they were robbed.
Sheamus was robbed of a WM match too to be fair. That moment kicked off, no pun intended, the fans backing Bryan more and more, and unfortunately it left a blemish on Sheamus he didn’t deserve when in fact the two had fantastic chemistry.
Their Extreme Rules match is up there with the best 2 Out Of 3 Falls matches ever. It was a true masterpiece and I think very underrated when we talk about both men's greatest matches
“AJ loves me and I appreciate that!”
And how he put her in the way of Big Show, and caused AJ to get run over. Then he blamed Big Show—“reckless! She is 95 pounds!” And then Show started crying.
Yup. He actually had a pretty amazing "world's shittiest boyfriend" character with the naive AJ Lee and his incessant "Yes!"es.
I was in the crowd that day. I fully expected Bryan to lose to Sheamus in what would have been a banger of a match. Instead, Sheamus squashed Bryan to make him look like a goof, and we were robbed of seeing Bryan (already considered by some to be the best wrestler in the world) in an actual Wrestlemania world title match.
It's a booking decision so bad that it turned itself inside out and fan backlash eventually made Bryan face when he formed Team Hell No with Kane later that year. I feel bad for Sheamus; I feel like it hurt his character for quite a bit, and his babyface world title run was overshadowed by the stigma from that Mania squash.
I remember they tried to turn JR into a heel commentator in the 90s. How'd they do that? By having him kick Michael Cole in the dick. Yeah, that didn't work.
I really got into wrestling in 2016, but as a child around 2007 I watched a bit and I loved Mysterio. Makes me truly sick to know the kind of man he was the whole time.
The Road Warriors heel turn in 1988 made them more popular. Fans were only more drawn in to the even more brutal & violent version of the team than they already had been.
Jeff's charisma is weird. It's just sort of an overall cool aura he's got. Because Lord knows he's boring as bricks on the mic and doesn't have a lot of personality.
Yeah, it's weird. It's also insulting.
Rocky Maivia, The Ringmaster, Mean Mark Callous, Dashing Cody Rhodes, Jean-Paul Levesque the French Aristocrat, Oz, Riverdancing Becky Lynch.
If you went by the "innate" charisma of those performers and not their ability to grow and craft their skills into being excellent at presenting themselves and on the mic then where would modern wrestling be?
Becky Lynch is the most obvious and recent one.
Sting went heel in TNA as part of MEM. Backfired in the sense that no one will ever boo Sting, and Sting could not stop himself from playing to the crowd. The others amped up the heel behaviour to make up for it.
Making Becky slap the s*it outta Charlotte after she interjected and stole the title from under her nose…. And anticipating a negative reaction towards Becky was a… choice
In a small way I think it's happening with Drew right now. I think his heel turn has actually made him more endearing to a lot of fans, in large part because a lot of his grievances are justified
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2016 A.J Styles was supposed to be a top heel, but his in-ring work was too good and he was often getting the loudest cheers.
Yeah, Ambrose was kind of the only guy who he'd get booed against and even then it was often pretty mixed.
He was initially cheered over Ambrose too. Granted, Dean was getting some backlash after the lackluster Summerslam match with Ziggler and the awkward podcast with Austin. Styles did some good work to actually and eventually get booed because he was so over like a motherfvcker at the time, and likewise, Mox did a good job turning the negative sentiment around with his masterful deconstruction of Cena, and (no joke) buddying around with Elsworth. His reaction from Backlash 2016 vs TLC 2016 was night and day.
That Ellsworth storyline was the best storyline that year
“What the hell is that?”
“You know what happens? Chin-ce McMahon?”
“NO CHIN MUSIC”
2016 styles might be the greatest wrestler of all time imo
2016 Smackdown was the best TV programming from 2010-2020 no question.
2016 Styles is not even the best Styles
Becky when they tried to make her Heel against Charlotte and no one was buying it
I like Charlotte WAY more than the average person on this sub seems to, but I have no fucking idea what WWE was thinking by turning Becky heel against Charlotte I’m sure Charlotte is a wonderful person, but she’s a natural heel on camera while Becky is a natural babyface. Asking fans to cheer Charlotte over Becky was a disaster waiting to happen
It was also like, one of the most justified heel turns ever. I’m all for heels having valid motivations but this was to the point where Becky did nothing wrong. Charlotte was an asshole bully and Becky was standing up for herself
Becky spent weeks winning matches to get a match at Summerslam, Charlotte comes back from plastic surgery (I think, could have been a real injury, I just remember she was off TV for a while), immediately gets handed a spot in the Summerslam match, Becky gets pissed and calls out Charlotte’s privilege, Charlotte is just like “I work hard too”, and we were supposed to take Charlotte’s side?????
Not just weeks, months. Her only televised loss between WrestleMania and SummerSlam was the MITB match. It was insane that one man thought this was a good idea. At least after a couple of months, they had the good sense to stop fighting against it.
It was one of those moments that stood out for how tone deaf it was. They're telling this amazing story about how Becky, perennial underdog and "girl behind the girl" was clawing her way for an opportunity against a heel champion, and then they just slap Charlotte onto the match and it's like "wait did you not realize the story you guys were telling?"
It was typical fuck the fans Vince booking. I guarantee you that if Vince was still there, we'd have seen the Rock vs. Roman at WM.
Becky wrote as much in her book, questioning why management didn’t see the obvious.
Yeah, that was really interesting to read, Charlotte saw it coming too. Told Becky they were about to turn her into Stone Cold. Or the part where they tried to use Edge to get the crowd to boo her and it didn't work. He just goes back to gorilla baffled and says 'well, I tried but they're not gonna boo her", lol.
Props to the guy for being a professional but he knew it wasn’t gonna work lmao
On a side note. Becky’s book made me think so much more highly of Charlotte. I was high on her before but she does seem like such a lovely person behind the scenes. I can’t imagine having all the pressure that her Dad’s legacy puts on her. Charlotte can’t help that she’s a Flair or that she was management’s pick, she could have coasted on that alone. However, she has come out and consistently put in the work and given us all a lot of matches we won’t forget.
Coke out? I guess that's another thing Rick gave to her 😅😅😅
> However, she has coke out How is that not a Wellness Policy violation?
This shit was way too common during Vince's days. I don't know if people remember HBK screwing over Daniel Bryan at Hell in a Cell 2013, Bryan atacks HBK the next night on RAW and the fans absolutely love it while the annnouncers act like he just commited this henious thing and is turning heel.
Oh yeah, theres a part in the book where they tell Becky to not pay attention to the crowd reaction because it's a "heel crowd" Reading that, I'm just like "what the fuck is a heel crowd?". Why are you viewing your crowd as the villain? Very symbolic of Vince's last like...I dunno, 15-20 years.
Reminds me of the time they had JBL say on commentary that the crowd is having fun because they're booing people they normally cheer and cheer who they normally boo. I think it was a Raw after Mania.
It's bizarro world, Maggle!
What was worse was teasing Michaels vs Bryan.
This was classic "Vince not listening to the crowd." If I recall, this was the match where becky slapped Charlotte as Charlotte tried to raise Becky's hand after charlotte won...or something like that...there was already some ground swell of support for Becky, but the crowd reacted positively when that happened...then the following smackdown, Becky tried to give a heel promo speech, and the crowd was basically chanting, "Becky...Becky...Becky!" IT was hilariously bad from Vince the he tried to make HER the heel instead of Charlotte.
> Becky tried to give a heel promo speech, The heel speech was comical because it was a "you people didn't believe in me" generic heel speech _while they were eating up everything she said and did_.
I remember there was one specific line from that promo that said the crowd didn't believe in her, and they cut it out from all replays and youtube vids. Honestly, without that one line, it was a pretty good promo, iirc.
Charlotte Flair is amazing and I'm a fan of hers, but it made absolutely no sense. I agree, she's much better suited as a heel, she's just really good at being a heel. Nothing wrong with that, it's one of her strengths.
> she’s a natural heel on camera while Becky is a natural babyface That whole group of women coming out of the black-and-gold NXT should have been so easy to book. Becky’s Becky, Bailey’s a really good old-school face, I wanna say Naomi was getting good reactions around that time, and everyone else was a good-to-great heel. Outside of AJ Styles crushing everything out of the park, that women’s division could have been the best thing on WWE TV at the time.
I had a lot of problems with Alexa Bliss’ booking in her first couple years on the main roster (especially as a Bayley fan) but she was an undeniable heel.
Some of the storylines and bad booking Bliss has survived are really a testament to her talent. That Bailey feud… man, I don’t what the hell that was. I felt bad for both of them watching that.
The fact that Alexa has a cheerleading background that they barely utilized in her ring work is so weird to me. I mean she beat Mickie James once by just punching her in the face. Why is a five foot nothing former cheerleader winning matches with Big Show's moves?!
It was a big part of her early NXT career to the point where it almost seemed like her ceiling. Her turning heel when she joined up with Buddy Murphy and Wesley Blake was a massive shock, but the bigger surprise was what a natural she was at it.
When this was happening, I was still reacclimating to wrestling as a former fan back in middle school, coming back to it as a college student. I thought Charlotte was good as a face of the division-esque babyface, though in hindsight it certainly isn't her best role and I get why she reminds people of Cena. Becky I had very little familiarity with and wasn't sold on the internet hype yet because she had only been presented as a midcard act to me. When Becky turned on Charlotte, I was intrigued, but also amused that the crowd was fully on Becky's side lol. When Becky was blatantly forced to use a script that ignored the fact that the fans cheered for her and pretend that they turned against her last night, I jumped fully onto the bandwagon out of spite lol. It was like watching one of those videogame cutscenes that render things dynamically (i.e.: if you set shit on fire right before triggering the cutscene, and the fire spreads to the NPC as they're talking to you, they just keep talking casually as their skin begins melting off). That's how stupid the WWE writers looked at the time, that they couldn't acknowledge the reality of what had happened and instead just committed to their false reality while Road Dogg went to Twitter to blame the fans for not humoring them and playing along.
You were JUST coming back, you need to realize at this point we had 3 whole damn years of WWE completely ignoring fans booing Roman Reigns. WWE fans were just PISSED at the time for force feeding storylines that wasn't working. WWE actually pivoting to babyface Becky a few weeks later was SO refreshing.
I don't think anyone hates Charlotte. She just does keep doing the same thing. She's injured, returns & instantly wins a belt which is justified at the time because we love her when she returns. But 2 months later it's boring, her work rate drops for TV. Rins/Repeat I HOPE under HHH we can see a new Charlotte gimmick. If anything, she could just act more like Ric. Constantly cocaine active, intense to the bone, delivers in matches, flaunts her riches. She shouldn't be a heel or a face. We need a full year of consistent Charlotte just being Charlotte
Yeah, pretty much. Her character work as a babyface hasn't always been the best, but I'd say a vast majority of the time, if people have an issue with her, it's really just the booking.
Her cutting the “YOU PEOPLE didn’t support me promo” while the crowd was chanting her name and the night before everyone went nuts for her beating up Charlotte was hilarious.
Another glaring example of the past regime's stubbornness and refusal to change even promos like that on the fly. Even if they want to keep Becky heel, making her cut the standard "No one supported me" promo the night after she was wildly cheered even when she sucker-punched Charlotte was beyond ridiculous. WWE wasn't even willing to change that promo to match the crowd reaction.
This is something I love about current WWE. They aren't afraid to play along with the fans. "Fans are cheering La Knight who couldn't even find a spot in the wrestlemania 39 preshow? Guess we'll just turn him face and make him stand toe to toe with Roman Reigns. Fans want Sami Zayn and Jey even though they're mid-card jobbers? We'll turn them into big stars now. Fans want Cody over THE FUCKING ROCK??? And Roman???? Fine" This is a completely different WWE from how it was since 2002 where they would be very stubborn and if fans were stubborn then they would double and triple down and tear down what they want just out of pure spite. It was legit so bizarre to see low iq dumbasses running things.
> They aren't afraid to play along with the fans. Honestly it's made being a WWE fan a LOT more durable, the years were our storyline criticism were countered with WWE shills arguing that crowd reaction didn't matter and WWE is the billion dollar company so they know what they are doing and are above approach was just exashauting. And it's amazing how A LOT of what people said were simple fixes back then actually were the fixes, make Roman Reigns heel, tell longer term storylines. I no longer have to read stupid arguments like "making Reings heel won't work because people will then just cheer him so the Big Dog IS a good character" or "long term storylines don't work with weekly TV".
In her book she talked about how she tried to fight them on that, knowing how nonsensical that line was. They apparently agreed with her shortly after and cut that line out of any future airings of the promo, and never tried to go that route again, even when they were still trying to portray her as a Heel.
It was even funnier and more bizarre if you had a better memory span than a goldfish. Becky’s fan support was completely organic at the time. The crowd at MitB a couple months earlier was going fucking feral every single time she climbed the ladder. *Everyone* wanted to see her win another title.
To this day Road Dogg is still salty about Becky being more mover than Charlotte.
Him defending Charlotte being inserted into that match for no good reason was the cringiest thing
Hearing in Becky's book that Charlotte felt like the third wheel passed me off because everyone knew it was a bad idea
The reasoning that they wanted two main event women to benefit from main eventing Wrestlemania because they knew Ronda was leaving for a bit afterwards kind of made sense but the execution was so clunky, no one actually wanted to see Charlotte in that match.
Dudes salty about a lot of stuff tbh
31 flavours and all he picks is salty.
Salted caramel is fucking tops, though.
Yeah but he chose salty bitch
Mainly Becky every time she does anything now.
This is the most obvious one of the past 20 years or so. Absolutey made her career.
The most worthless "You People" promo.
Becky attacked Charlotte after their match ***and the crowd cheered.*** Becky's eventual change into "The Man" character started off with WWE trying to force her to the audience as a heel, but the audience wanted no part of it. They were glad Becky was finally taking charge after Charlotte was offered easy opportunities while Becky had to struggle to get to the top. By Survivor Series, WWE finally pulled their heads out of their asses and kept Becky as a face. But even her Wrestlemania match with Ronda Rousey had Charlotte added to it for no real reason.
Oh we are going to turn the underdog into a heel against the nepo baby champ who wins always and looks like a goddess. Oh why are the dumb fans booing the nepo baby. What the fuck
Road Dogg coping on Twitter that both women have had equally hard journeys.
I agree with you on the bad management front, but Charlotte is more than a nepo baby. Even without the flair name she would have made it imo, she's genuinely really fucking good, she just isn't a babyface.
Charlotte would be a completly different wrestler if she wasn't Ric Flair's child. Her moveset, her catchphrase, her theme song and entrance attre all come from her dad and she wouldn't of been handed championships for the sake of getting to number 16 or booked nearly as strong. She might of been successful but I doubt she would be any where close to the level shes currently at.
The "You People" promo they had Becky do after she turned at SummerSlam was hilariously tone-deaf, considering the entire arena popped when it happened and chanted "You deserve it" to Charlotte afterward.
The first that comes to mind. If you read Becky's book, both her AND Charlotte knew it was gonna backfire.
That heel turn backfired so well. Changed Becky's career forever
>let's turn Becky heel And all it did was make her an even bigger babyface
I was there live for this one, it got one of the biggest pops I’ve ever heard 🤣
Bad News Barrett to the point people weren't sure if he was actually supposed to be a heel.
and vince's genius idea in response, turn him face? Nope, take away everything from him that was getting him cheered (because then people would obviously boo him instead), but not replace it with anything else so he just became generic heel #100 on the roster.
You forgot “Take him off tv when he gets injured even though his gimmick is built around promos and he could easily not wrestle for a bit”
That one RAW where he was out on the bad news elevator like 7 times in one night was peak Barrett, especially when the elevator broke. I thought he covered it brilliantly when he said "I've come down to your level to deliver you some MORE BAD NEWS!"
Straight up, it's so fucking easy to give the answer to "why did X leave???" when you remember how wild as hell the 2010s was. So much potential squandered because Vince couldn't or wouldn't just pull the damn trigger on them.
I was so sad they gave him king of the ring, and then turned his gimic into the cosmic king. Not like this was the guy whose entrance theme started with, "God save the queen."
This is one of the things I'm happiest is gone, Vince's insane stubbornness about changing his plans. He'd doggedly stick to something thinking it'll eventually work, it would blow up in his face, then he'd drop the whole thing and take the wrestler off TV until they were released.
I loved BNB, the troll gimmick was gold
BNB walked so Drew McIntyre could run
The podium is what gets me https://youtu.be/icUPjniE52w?si=7AkeUq7ceI3r-44X
It just never stops
That’s so fucking funny ofmg
BNB: Hey Vince, this gimmick really seems to be getting over. Maybe it's time for me to turn face? Vince: I'M AFRAID I'VE GOT SOME BAD NEWS!!!
Idk if backfiring is the term but we just watched Swerve break into someone’s house and antagonize a baby. Cut to everyone screaming that it’s his house and being a baby face champion.
It backfired in the sense that making Swerve a big time heel failed entirely, but the manner that it failed just happens to actually work out really well. A happy accident.
Sometimes wrestlers are too cool to be hated.
The best part of this is they did a double turn and made the guy who's house was broken into a heel for holding a grudge lol
Sure Swerve broke into a man’s house and threatened a baby, but Hangman didn’t want to wrestle for 5 more minutes, so who’s REALLY the bad guy here?
I think the intention was good, it literally just failed because Swerve is too fucking cool and awesome, and you're watching him elevate his game to such a high level that you just want to support him. Plus the dance/WHOSE HOUSE is just too over haha. Swerve was actually doing a pretty awesome job of being this horrible, violent dude. But then everyone was just like fuck this guy is so good WHOSE HOUSE and it couldn't really be stopped. Also when someone is like I want to be the first black man to win the title it's hard do be like nah fuck that dude.
I’m seriously still hung up on this a little bit. The man threatened an infant child. Literally we saw him staring down into a CRIB after breaking into a man’s house. But somehow Swerve is the face and Hangman is a heel for Hangman being furious that Swerve did that? I wouldn’t mind Swerve being a face if he had ever faced some consequences or repented or something for that, but he never did. He just got cheered into a face, and while I like Swerve, i really hate that we as a collective fanbase refuse to buy into kayfabe more heavily.
Hangman is Frank Grimes. Hes **right** to be pissed off that hes apparently living in bizzaro world where an **objectively bad guy** is getting cheered for doing **bad things**.
Hangman still complains that management did not fire Swerve for doing a bad job at the power plant. He's still mad that Swerve won a company kids' contest and was able to eat floating chips on space.
He DID eventually repent later. Hangmans obsession made him let go of every moral sense he had for years and turn on the fans, which provided the perfect foil for the double turn. It's the same thing with Bayley, she never did anything major to repent, she simply apologized for her actions AFTER everyone cheered theirs asses off for her Rumble win. Fans were already ready for her to turn and wanted to embrace her and cheer for her when she gets her moment. Swerve was too talented and cool to boo, sometimes it's as simple as that, kayfabe be damned. People wanna have a good time, wrestling is not supposed to be that strict and academic, if anything that's a bit of a turn off, people wanna have fun and they cheer for and gravitate towards whoever they like. SCSA was the most asshole that has ever assholed and he was getting cheered in 1997, it's why Bret Hart "turned heel". Bret was 100% right, but the crowd simply liked Austin too much. The dynamic of face/heel is waaay more blurry now than the old school days.
> I’m seriously still hung up on this a little bit. The man threatened an infant child. Literally we saw him staring down into a CRIB after breaking into a man’s house. But somehow Swerve is the face and Hangman is a heel for Hangman being furious that Swerve did that? YES!!! Swerve is not a face. He was captured on video breaking the law multiple times (the Nick Wayne assault as well), yet he faced no consequences and is now somehow the good guy.
Hangman was a justified heel. His persona became obsessed to take revenge against Swerve. Angry Hangman was a treat because it brought out a previously unseen part of Page that was chilling and done so well. The other part is that Page and Swerve have great chemistry. They are perfect "dance partners" for each other. Page and Swerve's personas wanted to end the other guy. It was brutal, chilling, and brilliant. One note on heel Swerve. Sure Nana had a great dance and good chemistry with Swerve. But there were moments when Swerve was ready to give into his darkest thoughts and Nana was the only guy who could talk Swerve down. Brilliant.
Nana has definitely helped cement Swerve as a babyface by association. Nana is so god damn likeable, too.
Hangman did nothing wrong.
Eddie Guerrero turning on Tajiri
Eddie: *attempts to murder beloved underdog babyface Tajiri* Fans: now now, maybe Tajiri had it coming
He DOES go around spraying mist on people.
My first thought. Somehow after viciously beating Tajiri, Eddie was over like a total superstar the next week.
Especially with Wiliam Regal.
Ambrose.
Heel turn so bad that he left and became world champion in two entirely different fucking companies. It was crushingly disappointing at the time but fuck, I couldn't be happier with the way everything turned out for him.
I loved hearing him talk about that night he was in like 6 segments, wearing the Bane overcoat, talking about the smell of the crowd...he hated that shit
The Bane Coat and Gas mask look was actually pretty cool I just didn't expect it to lead to a "you all stink" angle.
Yeah that sucked so hard. Cool look. 'you all smell poopy' promos written for him. Garbage.
Became wrestler of the year, face of another company, help usher in a legit alternative to the (at the time) very stale WWE, help build interest in indie wrestling and even overcame his alcohol issues AND became a dad. Mox is awesome.
My path to giving a shit about wrestling began with stumbling on Ambrose promos on youtube like, the *day* after he cashed in MITB on Seth and he has been somewhere in my top 5 wrestlers ever since, favourite WWE guy right up until he left. Moxley's massive success since leaving has been so incredibly fucking vindicating. Driving him away might have been the biggest McMahon booking mistake of the modern era.
Bro that promo where he was getting a shot in his ass, what the fuck?
he also wore a gasmask because he thought the crowd stunk considering that happened a year later, he was ahead of his time
Fair play to wwe for being able to keep an audience after that.
The initial turn was great and one that legitimately shocked me at the time. And then a gas mask came out
Yeah they had some great stuff there. Seth saying “it’s okay…it’s okay…” during the initial attack was awesome.
That first moment was amazing. Ambrose just can't deal with everything going on around him and he snaps. And Seth recognizes exactly what's happening, and even after taking the hit just wants to de-escalate it. It was one of the most human moments they ever had. That makes everything that happened afterwards even more disastrous.
And a lot of people forget that many in the crowd and elsewhere thought that Ambrose was going to be the one that broke up the Shield years before this. They even teased it several times towards the end of the Shield run. They could have called back to al of that with Ambrose's turn, but nah, typical Voldemort McMahon bs. Edit: fixed "bu5 nag" to "but nah"
It was all execution. Ambrose turning on Rollins on the very night Roman had to step away due to his cancer returning got him a ton of well-deserved heat. And then Ambrose's heel turn became whatever dumb bullshit Vince wanted instead of playing to Ambrose's strengths.
The heel turn itself was fucking phenomenal, one of my favourites of all time, but my god did they drop the ball HARD after that.
“Made him more popular” That shit would have killed his career if he didn’t leave. Dude took a shot in his ass because the fans were dirty.
>because the fans were dirty. I mean folks...
eddie guerrero 2003
Bobby Lashley & Street Profits last year 💀 Fans said, nah we’re still cheering you
I’ve referred to what he and LA Knight, for example, had happen as the Bobby Lashley effect. He came out and was like GRRR IM A BAD GUY and here I am like Bobby I’ve been a fan for 20 years, I ain’t booing you dog
That’s a hilarious way to put it, but I agree 100%. There is not a single thing Bobby could that would have me booing him in the arenas lol
Like for real, I’ve been a fan since he was in WWECW and shit, and like, the man is 49 and YOLKED and is a forever reliable and solid worker. Bobby needs to come over and beat my ass for me not to pop for him.
You’d probably still pop mid ass whooping
Lmfao that is a good way to describe those type of heel turns tbh
It’s basically the complete opposite of X-PAC heat. It’s like Final Boss Rocky. Hes like fuck all you fans you’re all meth head trailer trash and the crowds like YEAHHHHHH INSULT ME HARDER MAUI
If anything, Lashley always seems 10x cooler with a posse.
Final Boss Energy at work with Bobby Lashley. He's the guy who gives orders and beat downs with gusto.
Same thing with the Hurt Business before that, Bobby is just immune to boos.
Hurt Business was so cool, literally impossible to dislike; something about MVP’s swagger on the mic made it so fun
I mean, the hurt business entire run happened without fans lol
And they still broke it up because of how over it was with fans.
is it just me that really liked All Mighty run. There was obvious Vince bs. It was a bland character for Lashley but for once they stuck with it, MVP carried the early work then about 6 months in I really liked Lashley. I wanted him to dominate & he did
[удалено]
I don't know if I remember this correctly, but I'm pretty sure I saw her try to cut a "You people turned on me" promo to an audience that most definitely did NOT turn on her and was explicitly still rooting for her.
It was definitely a "you people" promo, and it completely didn't work. She was going to be cheered no matter what and I'm glad they just went with it.
She made fun of Edge's neck injuries and STILL got cheered lol
They threw Cena at her so that she could give him the cold shoulder thinking that would finally turn her. Everything that happened after SummerSlam ‘18 just built her up more and more as a face until Nia broke her nose. Which finally cemented her in place.
looking back on those promos it really made her look like Rock special. Was a prick to everyone then got huge cheers.
One that comically had her blaming the fans for being lazy millennials for some reason.
I would bet everything I own that that was a Vince McMahon line.
I remember at one point after trying to reword or redirect it like 3 times, and the fans adjusting their chants/cheers to keep going with her, you can just see her break into a smile because it was SO OBVIOUSLY not working lol.
Fans were literally chanting “You deserve it” at Charlotte, the “babyface” who was getting beaten up.
Becky in 2018-2019 and Daniel Bryan in 2014: the two biggest examples of WWE falling ass-backwards into main event stars despite their own efforts to keep them heel or out of the main event.
I mean the first choice is Becky but I wanna add Drew too. Dude is amazing as a heel now.
I think Sting once turned heel but the crowd kept cheering him. If I recall correctly, he never tried turning heel again lol.
Sting being heel is like Batman being the bad guy. You would immediately think "I bet he has a point".
Flashpoint Batman, Thomas Wayne, is my favorite Batman for this very reason.
In fall of 1999. They even did a whole video package with ominous voiceover that insinuated that Sting was always evil. It naturally didn’t work.
Really? Don't remember that. That's so dumb. No body is more white meat baby face than Sting in the 90s. Like.... he was more face than face Hogan who still occasionally did dirty things.
Wasn’t he a heel in TNA during the main event mafia?
Kinda, more tweener than anything because his reasons behind his turn was a well thought out "neccesary evil", but he always was the voice of reason within MEM, didn't join in with the typical heel beatdowns, and eventually lead to the beginning of the breakup of the group when Sting's moral actions kept on frustrating the vicious heel in Angle.
> Wasn’t he a heel in TNA during the main event mafia? Eh, kinda. I always just assumed he was a babyface in a heel group.
Correct, in 99' or 2000 they tried to turn Crow Sting heel against a Red & Yellow Hogan in WCW... I was at the Fall Brawl in NC where it happened (Benoit vs. Sid was also on there for the US Title) Everyone and their brother was cheering Stinger and booing Hogan.
Nakamura. He was so damn entertaining with his "no speak English" interview endings. Plus his heel theme was fantastic.
People didn’t wanna hate the guy. They HAD to change his theme so crowds wouldn’t sing along
Obvious one is Becky in 2018.
Raven vs Jarrett - Early TNA. Crowd was throwing things when Jarrett pinned Raven. There were some JJ fans but Raven was the draw.
Those JJ fans were Russo, Jerry Jarrett & Jeff Jarrett himself.
RVD during the invasion. He ended up being one of the few guys to not get buried, because he just couldn’t be booed.
Rikishi, a popular midcard act, nobody wanted more than that.
i think the turn just happened too quickly and out of nowhere. Literally went from dancing in the ring to "yeah I ran over stone cold with a car". If they had built up the turn I think it couldve worked. It also didnt help that the turn happened by him making a sad confession, and then making himself look like an idiot by trying to help the rock against Angle and failing. He shouldve turned by being happy about shelving Austin, and purposely costing the Rock the title by saying he didnt deserve it anymore or something.
I don't know if this fits the bill, but a face Sheamus squashing a heel Bryan at Wrestlemania 28. If I'm not mistaken, that's what kicked off the 'Yes Movement'.
BRYAN WAS HEEL AT WM28?!
Yeah. He constantly used AJ Lee as his shield and was a chickenshit heel. Him finally getting his comeuppance at WM soured the fans because he was so good in ring and they felt both he and they were robbed. Sheamus was robbed of a WM match too to be fair. That moment kicked off, no pun intended, the fans backing Bryan more and more, and unfortunately it left a blemish on Sheamus he didn’t deserve when in fact the two had fantastic chemistry.
Their Extreme Rules match is up there with the best 2 Out Of 3 Falls matches ever. It was a true masterpiece and I think very underrated when we talk about both men's greatest matches
Yeah if I remember correctly, this was after/during his time being a dick boyfriend to AJ.
“AJ loves me and I appreciate that!” And how he put her in the way of Big Show, and caused AJ to get run over. Then he blamed Big Show—“reckless! She is 95 pounds!” And then Show started crying.
Don't forget he called Big Show a bastard.
Yup. He actually had a pretty amazing "world's shittiest boyfriend" character with the naive AJ Lee and his incessant "Yes!"es. I was in the crowd that day. I fully expected Bryan to lose to Sheamus in what would have been a banger of a match. Instead, Sheamus squashed Bryan to make him look like a goof, and we were robbed of seeing Bryan (already considered by some to be the best wrestler in the world) in an actual Wrestlemania world title match. It's a booking decision so bad that it turned itself inside out and fan backlash eventually made Bryan face when he formed Team Hell No with Kane later that year. I feel bad for Sheamus; I feel like it hurt his character for quite a bit, and his babyface world title run was overshadowed by the stigma from that Mania squash.
I remember they tried to turn JR into a heel commentator in the 90s. How'd they do that? By having him kick Michael Cole in the dick. Yeah, that didn't work.
Why isn’t Stone Cold mentioned yet? WM X-7, he sided with Vince. He still couldn’t be boo’ed.
To be fair that was still in his hometown. There was no way he was gonna be booed in Texas
It didn’t make him more popular though, ultimately the heel turn didn’t work but also made him less popular than before.
It could be argued it helped tank the industry for the aughts.
For some reason fans cheer for that dead beat dad Rey Mysterio.
I really got into wrestling in 2016, but as a child around 2007 I watched a bit and I loved Mysterio. Makes me truly sick to know the kind of man he was the whole time.
Are these the alternate accounts of Tom and Nick Mysterio?!
He admitted to child abuse on Twitter, truly a monster
Rhea Ripley comes to mind tbh. She’s heel but it seems like everyone likes her lol
She was getting booed for a while at least though
That was AoE boos directed at Dominick
Those were more "we're gonna boo *IN KAYFABE"*
I saw her at a house show and enthusiastically booed her while clapping furiously. I was not the only one.
The Road Warriors heel turn in 1988 made them more popular. Fans were only more drawn in to the even more brutal & violent version of the team than they already had been.
- Jeff Hardy fans claiming him to be charismatic - "Jeff didn't put any effort in...." Story of Jeff Hardy's career.
Most wrestling fans seem to see charisma as an innate thing
Jeff's charisma is weird. It's just sort of an overall cool aura he's got. Because Lord knows he's boring as bricks on the mic and doesn't have a lot of personality.
Yeah, it's weird. It's also insulting. Rocky Maivia, The Ringmaster, Mean Mark Callous, Dashing Cody Rhodes, Jean-Paul Levesque the French Aristocrat, Oz, Riverdancing Becky Lynch. If you went by the "innate" charisma of those performers and not their ability to grow and craft their skills into being excellent at presenting themselves and on the mic then where would modern wrestling be?
Daniel Bryan joining the Wyatts for like 6 weeks for no reason in 2013
Most recent I can think of is the Pride/Street Profits. They had them attack Rey and everything but we just outright refuse to boo Bobby and co.
Becky Lynch is the best example of this. Eddie Guerrero and The Pride also fall into this category
Idk about Backfire but Roman got more popular The new day got more popular Rhea and dom
Kurt Angle in the mid 2000s when they had him say racist stuff and talk about banging Sharmell
Mami
Becky Lynch is the most obvious and recent one. Sting went heel in TNA as part of MEM. Backfired in the sense that no one will ever boo Sting, and Sting could not stop himself from playing to the crowd. The others amped up the heel behaviour to make up for it.
Making Becky slap the s*it outta Charlotte after she interjected and stole the title from under her nose…. And anticipating a negative reaction towards Becky was a… choice
In a small way I think it's happening with Drew right now. I think his heel turn has actually made him more endearing to a lot of fans, in large part because a lot of his grievances are justified
delusional R-Truth “lil jimmy” gimmick was so over in 2011 that it landed him in a title shot against his childhood hero who refused to put him over