I tried the bombast Cannon how do you not try field artillery right?
I dunno if I liked it, it's basically an auto cannon that can fire indirectly which is cool but so can mortars and you can get 6 if them for less.
I think I'd just pay the ten points more for a basilisk. But you're right the models are cool. Anyway sorry I didn't really answer your question?
Creed with a FOB, maybe some mortars, and a teleporting kasrkin squad.
They need take aim to counter indirect penalty, and they need creed to hit str 8 as a fairly critical breakpoint
I put two pairs in the back corner. With them, a vanilla command squad to order them to *take aim!* I put heavy weapons on the command squad so they can still try to do something from there. Also an Astropath for Barrier if needed and doing the command points action otherwise.
I also got kind of bored with Guard this codex and haven't played them in months. That should probably factor into how relevant my opinions are.
I'm amazed people are getting bored with the Guard when we have so many options available to us. Sure there's meta builds, but I've had so much fun playing random ass lists.
Three banehammers was funny AF.
Full cavalry charge was cool but fiddly.
Oops all tanks is how the guard should roll.
All infantry was absurdly good.
Big stuff only with as many ogryn like models and sentinels with lord solar had my opponent pulling out hairs.
I even dabbled in the FW lines and tried pure artillery. Lost massively on points because I had like, 3 squads of men which died very fast. But it was nice to thudd stuff to death.
All mechanised is my next list on the agenda.
Tbf though, this is all beer and pretzel gaming with proxies both sides.
I always view it as a small portion of a MUCH larger engagement. Like we're playing a pivotal moment in the war.
Normally guard going to war field what? 10k men? 100k? A million?
My 100 dudes and some tanks are a minute section of that, so why not field a few mixed regiments? Or have all cavalry on their massed charge. Or the push of the superheavies into the breach.
Fluff is what you make of it.
The sheer scale of the imperium guarantees that there will always be a commander "just as good as Creed", or a pompous asshat riding a pony that can lead your troops, it doesn't have to literally be THAT person.
I'm not sad at the loss of veterans, Kasrkin replaced them. Sure the loss of conscripts was a bit sad, and I'd prefer to field my hellhounds and Basilisks in blocks of three again, but I can work around that.
I magnetised mine and with 10ed around the corner this could be even more important.
Drill 3mm holes in the las/bombast footing
Drill 3mm hole in the fixture place 3x1mm magnets in both
Kitebash 2 spare gun footings or 3d print them.
Do same to them and mount magnets in them.
Now you got 3 possible options for the gun and it’s just up to you how to use them in each game.
If you want it more fancy you could magnetise some area things on them to like a box with artillery shell or pin rockets or las packs to exchange on the plate what you use.
The bombast field guns are cool but they are currently completely eclipsed by the earthshaker carriage in every way, they are cheaper and does more damage to every type of target, however you'll either need a 3d party proxy or fork out the fortune that FW charges for them.
Bombasts are the only option. They're too fragile to use direct-fire options effectively, their only chance of making their points back is to hide behind LOS blocking terrain and survive for at least 3-4 turns. Direct-fire guns may have good numbers but only getting one turn of shooting at most before they're removed from the table is a huge problem.
So everyone is saying the Bombasts are the only option when they simply aren't.
I've been running two FOBs with heavy lascannons in reserve, and have been having an absolute blast mentally screwing with the enemy everytime I bring one in from map edge with perfect firing position to then proceed to one shot their angron/demon engine/monster/vehicle/terminator squad/sisters vanguards/etc. Not to mention that with 4 shots at -4 AP and a minimum of 4 damage per shot, they can take out 4/5 terminators or space marines in a squad if all hit, which imo performs the same or better than the bombast for the same purpose.
Yeah they are expensive and under many circumstances they will die after having shot once, but imo the lascannons are able to make their points back in taking out some real heavy hitters in a single turn, while providing an excellent distraction away from your more valuable units like lemans or rogal dorns, the enemy sees what the fob just did and attempts to kill them at all costs instead of my vanquisher..
Points per points, they typically destroy more than their worth in a single turn, and if they survive into the next one they can typically get anywhere from 4 - 12 more damage onto a target depending on model count.
I roll elite sharpshooters and expert bombardiers to give them hitting on 3s straight out of reserves, and usually have an average of 3/4 hits, 3 wounds, and around 12-18 damage per volley from a single unit. Doubling up two FOBs on a single target could easily take down a knight of you roll well.
Completely slept on, the Bombasts are able to do indirect harassment and survive sure, but these things can wipe the board with nearly anything they aim at with even slightly above average rolling.
First of all I don't think anyone said bombast are an option none of them are.
Secondly how are you taking down a knight, or hitting on 3s??
Moving and firing heavy gives -1. Hitting on 4s against a knight is 2 hits, 1.33 wounds, .66 unsaved, 3.33 damage average. For 2 batteries
Reread the Heavy description for weapons. It's a huge oversight that people don't realize doesn't apply to FOBs, making them way better than people think.
Field Ordinance batteries don't have the INFANTRY Keyword, so they don't get the -1 to hit after moving for heavy weapons, so they hit on 4s base, with take aim it goes down to 3s.
If not with take aim, you can use the expert bombardiers sentinel/vox caster within 12" (I use scions to deepstrike 9" away from the target with a vox in it for this purpose) for the +1 to hit to bring it to 3s.
They have two shots per lascannon, that makes it 4 per unit. 2 units have 8 shots, hitting on 3s with one reroll per unit due to elite sharpshooters doctrine so two rerolls. With a Master of Ordinance calling out the target you can also reroll 1s to hit as well.
All of that would be an average of 7 ish hits, 10S so generally wounding on 3, that's about 4-5 wounds on average, -5 AP on their guns with take aim, so 2+ saves go right through unless invuls saves, with most invul saves that's on a 5+, so maybe 3-4 wounds go through.
D3+3 per successful wound, so with 3-4 going through that would be a minimum of 12 - 16 damage between two FOB units rolling 1s on your D3s.
Rolling above average would get you into the 18 - 30 damage range, rolling extremely well would get you over 40 damage between two FOBs focusing one target.
Fair, i forgot now only infantry is effected by heavy. Side note how would you be rerolling the damage of 1 on the d3s? But to the math.
Ill give you full rerolls instead of MOO 1s and 2 ESS rerolls.
8 shots rerolling all fails is 7.11 hits, 4.74 wounds against t7/8, 2.3 unsaved wounds (angron and knights have 4++), 11.8 average damage.
2x FOB = 260 pts, + 100 for your command squad w/MOO that would have to somehow move up the board and get in your magical perfect line of sight strat reserve (no vox on FOB), will kill less than half a big knight, leave a little knight on one wound or leave angron with 7 wounds.
There isn't a magical LOS with titanic units since they are titanic. MoO is 30" and visible, to which titanic units are essentially always visible, with how I play, my command squad goes to the center of the board anyway, so it'll be in range. And when I drop scions with a vox caster 9" from an enemy turn 2, that gives me the expert bombardiers bonus on the FOBs because a vox is within 12".
I'll agree angron is a bit special, but the 4+ invuls as far as I recall are only when a knight has their special honored trait after they get 5 marks or something of that sort.
Apologies if I'm wrong on that and they are tankier than I'm thinking, but based on my experience so far with them, the FOBs consistently get 8- 12 damage on a target per unit. I've been smacking angron around with them like noone's business.
And besides, even if they just bring an enemy to lowest bracket and don't take it out, I have my gatekeeper or vanquisher there to finish the job. Well worth it for 260 points instead of two bombast guns imo.
You do you man. I'm suggesting don't take either. They're both bad. So is angron. Improbably taking out a bad unit with a bad unit doesn't seem to be a reasonable benchmark to base advice to others upon.
If you have infantry to bubble wrap them I’d go with the missile launchers and an assault command squad with a master of ordinance and a regimental standard and then you get to a point where you’re just ripping off a lot of shots that’ll tear through up to tougher infantry
I played a few games with them and mortars always do better. Mortars are cheaper, you get more shots, they are core so can recive order (you can remove the indirect fire penalty with the take aim command) they are just all around the better option. There is something interesting about running them as heavy las cannons though if you want some punchy anti tank.
I have one set up as bombast field guns, since pack howitzer are cool. I plan on getting a second pair to use as lascannons. I run a command squad with a master of ordinance and toyed with the artillery regimental trait. They've done ok in the few games I've used them
All three options are wicked cool and really fun… granted I’m not a competetive player so my opinion doesn’t matter, they are easy to magnetize. They need to be babysat by some commander. I use creed because the strength makes a huge difference. I love having an artillery position and it’s pretty cinematic to rain hell from the back.
IMO least productive js lascannons because there are far better options
I tried the bombast Cannon how do you not try field artillery right? I dunno if I liked it, it's basically an auto cannon that can fire indirectly which is cool but so can mortars and you can get 6 if them for less. I think I'd just pay the ten points more for a basilisk. But you're right the models are cool. Anyway sorry I didn't really answer your question?
haha no worries, i get it. I do love me some basilisks... and i guess a fifth basilisk wont hurt right? :p
Don't be a coward, get 9 Basilisks, whole company's worth!
Basilisks do not benefit from Take aim.. so thats actually bad choice imho
The forge world Earthshaker battery *does* benefit, though
Right, better than the FoB. But you need an 3d Printer 🤣
I got a trio on eBay years ago for a price I can only describe as suspicious. 2/3 were perfect (and it was still a deal at that price)?
That's fair, but you can get reroll 1s on them and poison on a 5+ with born soldiers so it's mostly fairly kinda occasionally consistent
Creed with a FOB, maybe some mortars, and a teleporting kasrkin squad. They need take aim to counter indirect penalty, and they need creed to hit str 8 as a fairly critical breakpoint
Do AM not ignore the indirect penalty anymore? :s if so I've been cheating
Nope not since jan
🥲
FOB doesn’t have Core. Does creed still give them +1S?
Doesn't need CORE. Creeds buff works when ordered, which is limited to PLATOON, which thr fobs have
I put two pairs in the back corner. With them, a vanilla command squad to order them to *take aim!* I put heavy weapons on the command squad so they can still try to do something from there. Also an Astropath for Barrier if needed and doing the command points action otherwise. I also got kind of bored with Guard this codex and haven't played them in months. That should probably factor into how relevant my opinions are.
I'm amazed people are getting bored with the Guard when we have so many options available to us. Sure there's meta builds, but I've had so much fun playing random ass lists. Three banehammers was funny AF. Full cavalry charge was cool but fiddly. Oops all tanks is how the guard should roll. All infantry was absurdly good. Big stuff only with as many ogryn like models and sentinels with lord solar had my opponent pulling out hairs. I even dabbled in the FW lines and tried pure artillery. Lost massively on points because I had like, 3 squads of men which died very fast. But it was nice to thudd stuff to death. All mechanised is my next list on the agenda. Tbf though, this is all beer and pretzel gaming with proxies both sides.
It feels less fluffy and like you have less actual options than before. It's a powerful codex, I'm just not excited about it like I once was.
I always view it as a small portion of a MUCH larger engagement. Like we're playing a pivotal moment in the war. Normally guard going to war field what? 10k men? 100k? A million? My 100 dudes and some tanks are a minute section of that, so why not field a few mixed regiments? Or have all cavalry on their massed charge. Or the push of the superheavies into the breach. Fluff is what you make of it. The sheer scale of the imperium guarantees that there will always be a commander "just as good as Creed", or a pompous asshat riding a pony that can lead your troops, it doesn't have to literally be THAT person. I'm not sad at the loss of veterans, Kasrkin replaced them. Sure the loss of conscripts was a bit sad, and I'd prefer to field my hellhounds and Basilisks in blocks of three again, but I can work around that.
Having to reflavor your units to make them fluffy is what it means to not be fluffy. Lots of "counts as" this edition.
I'm sorry did you say 3 banehammers
Yes. It was glorious. Never would have worked in any proper competitive setting though! Such a shame we lost that codex so soon!
Irrelevant if you win or not the look on your opponents face is all that is required.
I rolled 23 shots last night with the Malleus, with Take Aim. That was fun! Then they died.
“Then they died” is just the guard experience
This is a feature not a bug
I found them quite resilient with their 6W 4T and 4+. At least compared to our standard infantry
I magnetised mine and with 10ed around the corner this could be even more important. Drill 3mm holes in the las/bombast footing Drill 3mm hole in the fixture place 3x1mm magnets in both Kitebash 2 spare gun footings or 3d print them. Do same to them and mount magnets in them. Now you got 3 possible options for the gun and it’s just up to you how to use them in each game. If you want it more fancy you could magnetise some area things on them to like a box with artillery shell or pin rockets or las packs to exchange on the plate what you use.
The las cannons are fun. But I’m busy fighting Custodes yk? Lmao the bombast are very fun
The bombast field guns are cool but they are currently completely eclipsed by the earthshaker carriage in every way, they are cheaper and does more damage to every type of target, however you'll either need a 3d party proxy or fork out the fortune that FW charges for them.
Bombasts are the only option. They're too fragile to use direct-fire options effectively, their only chance of making their points back is to hide behind LOS blocking terrain and survive for at least 3-4 turns. Direct-fire guns may have good numbers but only getting one turn of shooting at most before they're removed from the table is a huge problem.
So everyone is saying the Bombasts are the only option when they simply aren't. I've been running two FOBs with heavy lascannons in reserve, and have been having an absolute blast mentally screwing with the enemy everytime I bring one in from map edge with perfect firing position to then proceed to one shot their angron/demon engine/monster/vehicle/terminator squad/sisters vanguards/etc. Not to mention that with 4 shots at -4 AP and a minimum of 4 damage per shot, they can take out 4/5 terminators or space marines in a squad if all hit, which imo performs the same or better than the bombast for the same purpose. Yeah they are expensive and under many circumstances they will die after having shot once, but imo the lascannons are able to make their points back in taking out some real heavy hitters in a single turn, while providing an excellent distraction away from your more valuable units like lemans or rogal dorns, the enemy sees what the fob just did and attempts to kill them at all costs instead of my vanquisher.. Points per points, they typically destroy more than their worth in a single turn, and if they survive into the next one they can typically get anywhere from 4 - 12 more damage onto a target depending on model count. I roll elite sharpshooters and expert bombardiers to give them hitting on 3s straight out of reserves, and usually have an average of 3/4 hits, 3 wounds, and around 12-18 damage per volley from a single unit. Doubling up two FOBs on a single target could easily take down a knight of you roll well. Completely slept on, the Bombasts are able to do indirect harassment and survive sure, but these things can wipe the board with nearly anything they aim at with even slightly above average rolling.
First of all I don't think anyone said bombast are an option none of them are. Secondly how are you taking down a knight, or hitting on 3s?? Moving and firing heavy gives -1. Hitting on 4s against a knight is 2 hits, 1.33 wounds, .66 unsaved, 3.33 damage average. For 2 batteries
Reread the Heavy description for weapons. It's a huge oversight that people don't realize doesn't apply to FOBs, making them way better than people think. Field Ordinance batteries don't have the INFANTRY Keyword, so they don't get the -1 to hit after moving for heavy weapons, so they hit on 4s base, with take aim it goes down to 3s. If not with take aim, you can use the expert bombardiers sentinel/vox caster within 12" (I use scions to deepstrike 9" away from the target with a vox in it for this purpose) for the +1 to hit to bring it to 3s. They have two shots per lascannon, that makes it 4 per unit. 2 units have 8 shots, hitting on 3s with one reroll per unit due to elite sharpshooters doctrine so two rerolls. With a Master of Ordinance calling out the target you can also reroll 1s to hit as well. All of that would be an average of 7 ish hits, 10S so generally wounding on 3, that's about 4-5 wounds on average, -5 AP on their guns with take aim, so 2+ saves go right through unless invuls saves, with most invul saves that's on a 5+, so maybe 3-4 wounds go through. D3+3 per successful wound, so with 3-4 going through that would be a minimum of 12 - 16 damage between two FOB units rolling 1s on your D3s. Rolling above average would get you into the 18 - 30 damage range, rolling extremely well would get you over 40 damage between two FOBs focusing one target.
Fair, i forgot now only infantry is effected by heavy. Side note how would you be rerolling the damage of 1 on the d3s? But to the math. Ill give you full rerolls instead of MOO 1s and 2 ESS rerolls. 8 shots rerolling all fails is 7.11 hits, 4.74 wounds against t7/8, 2.3 unsaved wounds (angron and knights have 4++), 11.8 average damage. 2x FOB = 260 pts, + 100 for your command squad w/MOO that would have to somehow move up the board and get in your magical perfect line of sight strat reserve (no vox on FOB), will kill less than half a big knight, leave a little knight on one wound or leave angron with 7 wounds.
There isn't a magical LOS with titanic units since they are titanic. MoO is 30" and visible, to which titanic units are essentially always visible, with how I play, my command squad goes to the center of the board anyway, so it'll be in range. And when I drop scions with a vox caster 9" from an enemy turn 2, that gives me the expert bombardiers bonus on the FOBs because a vox is within 12". I'll agree angron is a bit special, but the 4+ invuls as far as I recall are only when a knight has their special honored trait after they get 5 marks or something of that sort. Apologies if I'm wrong on that and they are tankier than I'm thinking, but based on my experience so far with them, the FOBs consistently get 8- 12 damage on a target per unit. I've been smacking angron around with them like noone's business. And besides, even if they just bring an enemy to lowest bracket and don't take it out, I have my gatekeeper or vanquisher there to finish the job. Well worth it for 260 points instead of two bombast guns imo.
You do you man. I'm suggesting don't take either. They're both bad. So is angron. Improbably taking out a bad unit with a bad unit doesn't seem to be a reasonable benchmark to base advice to others upon.
Also only 3 damage against angron
If you have infantry to bubble wrap them I’d go with the missile launchers and an assault command squad with a master of ordinance and a regimental standard and then you get to a point where you’re just ripping off a lot of shots that’ll tear through up to tougher infantry
I played a few games with them and mortars always do better. Mortars are cheaper, you get more shots, they are core so can recive order (you can remove the indirect fire penalty with the take aim command) they are just all around the better option. There is something interesting about running them as heavy las cannons though if you want some punchy anti tank.
Platoon/squadron is what matters for orders, not core. Batteries can take orders
I have one set up as bombast field guns, since pack howitzer are cool. I plan on getting a second pair to use as lascannons. I run a command squad with a master of ordinance and toyed with the artillery regimental trait. They've done ok in the few games I've used them
All three options are wicked cool and really fun… granted I’m not a competetive player so my opinion doesn’t matter, they are easy to magnetize. They need to be babysat by some commander. I use creed because the strength makes a huge difference. I love having an artillery position and it’s pretty cinematic to rain hell from the back. IMO least productive js lascannons because there are far better options
Can you include one in the command squad?